Global Warming And The Hot Water Bottle

Our God-Emperor has taken ill. And to cheer him while he recuperates, why don’t you record your best wishes, offer suggestions, remedies or reading materials he might like?

I’ll start with one that’s sure to tickle his funny bone: A devastating critique of the IPCC by James Cook University PhD candidate John McLean. A worthy accompaniment to chicken soup and honey-and-lemon to take the mind off those aches and sneezes.

Hyperlinks at the ready!

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386 Responses to Global Warming And The Hot Water Bottle

  1. Locusts says:

    The Cat in the Hat, it always brings a smile to my face.

  2. NoIdea says:

    A top tip for reading material, for recuperating to, would be Oz’s surely?


  3. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    G’day Oz,

    I have to tell you – on his best day and after a squillion bicep curls, JD will never have tanned bulging muscles like that.

    However, if Bufo can convince him to come on down to Libertygibbert, we’ll keep him entertained and cheer him up.

    Well, I am trying to cheer him up. JD with ze Austrian ahccent?

    He’ll be baaack – Oz

  4. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Are we allowed to tell him jokes?

  5. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Ah well, nothing ventured… as they


    “The Ferrari F1 team fired their entire pit crew yesterday.”

    This announcement followed Ferrari’s decision to take advantage of the British government’s ‘Work for your Dole’ scheme and employ some Liverpudlian youngsters.

    The decision to hire them was brought about by a recent documentary on how unemployed youths from Toxteth were able to remove a set of wheels in less than 6 seconds without proper equipment, whereas Ferrari’s existing crew could only do it in 8 seconds with millions of pounds worth of high tech equipment.

    It was thought to be an excellent, bold move by the Ferrari management team as most races are won and lost in the pits, giving Ferrari an advantage over every other team.

    However, Ferrari got more than they bargained for! At the crew’s first practice session, not only was the scouse pit crew able to change all four wheels in under 6 seconds but, within 12 seconds, they had re-sprayed, re-badged and sold the car to the Mclaren team for 8 cases of Stella, a bag of weed and some photos of Lewis
    Hamilton’s bird in the shower.

  6. Amanda says:

    James Delingpole (if you’re reading — and if not, everyone else):

    Love this joke recently offered by the Grand Ozboy himself:

    Q. How do you tell the sex of a chromosome?

    A. Take its genes off 🙂

  7. MV you want to get the man in trouble with his missus he’ll be needing stitches.

  8. Must get it for research purposes.

  9. memoryvault says:


    It will be better for him than studying Pointman’s r’s no matter what Thumper says.

  10. I still wonder if anyone got my joke on that one.

  11. memoryvault says:


    I didn’t – I know Pointy drops a lot of f’s and o’s but personally never saw anything funny about his r’s.

  12. Ozboy says:

    And in the Loony Architecture department….

    Finally someone’s had the sense to at least order an inquiry into the ridiculous (and now failed) scheme to give Hobart’s tallest buildings the structural equivalent of a propeller hat.

    Swanny and I are paying for this stupidity. No-one asked us if we wanted it in the first place.

    How’s that for a joke? 👿

  13. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Have just had a visit this morning from a friend that lives in the southern Hobart suburb of Taroona, right on the River Derwent estuary.

    They’ve all been watching a Southern Right Whale give birth to a calf close inshore.

    How good is that?

    Watch for it on the local TV News tonight Oz.

    I have some old newspaper replicas from the Hobart Gazette in the early 1800s. There are stories of the whales in the river being so numerous their noise kept residents awake, and a warning to row-boats in the river that whales were surfacing and overturning boats.

    Then along came those Boston Whalers and we lost all our whales for 150 years.

    How fantastic that they’ve come back.

    Now all we have to do is deal with the Japanese Whalers. Ooops, never mind, the Greeenpeace Pirates will sort them out.

  14. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    James, Mr. Delingploe Sir,

    As our charming host Ozboy has created a private room for you in the Bar & Grill for your convalescence, and invited suggestions from us for your entertainment as well as reading material, I thought I’d better find out a bit more about your likes and dislikes.

    So far, I only knew that you particularly disliked George Monbiot, but we don’t want to be too negative now, do we?

    So I went to your website and discovered that you wanted to catch up on some summertime reading, listing “Moby-Dick, David Copperfield, Crime and Punishment, Madame Bovary, Vanity Fair, everything by the Brontës, anything German, Metamorphosis, the Odyssey, the Iliad, most Balzac, anything by P.G. Wodehouse, Our Mutual Friend, Anna Karenina…” and so on.

    May I humbly suggest James, that you might care to expand your mind, broaden your education, and develop an awareness that there is a whole new world awaiting you South of the Equator.

    Your reading selection is so terribly European isn’t it? It’s a brave new world here in the Antipodes, one of the last great frontiers, and we have moved a little way beyond being an outpost of the Great British Empire.

    If you’d like to find out how we got here we have some great Australian authors;

    “The Fatal Shore” by Robert Hughes;
    ‘This is history on an epic scale, told with immense energy and panache.’

    “Poor Fellow My Country” by Xavier Herbert;
    ‘No Australian novelist has bettered Herbert’s achievement of crowding a sense of life within the finite form of a novel.’

    “The Commonwealth of Thieves” by Tom Keneally, (he who wrote “Schindler’s Ark” changed to Schindler’s List by American Movie Makers).
    This new novel is ‘a vivid account of exile and endurance in the earliest days of modern Australia’.

    As WW2 is of great interest to you, you may like to move beyond the beaches of Normandy and try;

    “Kokoda” by Peter FitzSimons, an account of the New Guinea campaign to halt the advance of the Japanese after Singapore fell.

    “Tobruk” also by FitzSimons, on the Libyan battles to protect the British in Cairo from Rommel’s advance, the ANZACs being the first to halt the Panzers since the invasion of Poland.

    “Hellfire” by Cameron Forbes, an account of POWs on Burma Railway;
    ‘Forbes has a novelist’s eye for character and place and an historian’s concern for truth. The result is prose that shines and a story that plumbs all that is best and worst in the human condition’.

    So there you go James, half a dozen books to keep you occupied and if you’re feeling a bit down, the story of Hellfire Pass tends to put the world in a different focus, and our modern-day troubles seem paltry by comparison.

    At Ozboy’s Bar & Grill we always aim to please, and when your nose isn’t buried in a book, pop in for a chat.

    Cheers, hope you’re feeling better soon.

  15. Old Toad says:

    Blackswan et al. I’m sure he’d love to visit this site but as his own blogs get so extended it’s barely possible to keep up. Far too much troll-traffic, but do you ignore or educate ?
    The first of his 3 books has gone to the publisher but ‘Climategate’ needs to be finished before we all forget about it and move on to ‘Bio-diversity Loss’.
    ‘Coward in the Woods’ has been gestating for too long.
    On your reading list the Tobruk and Burma titles would surely be of interest as ‘Coward’ hopes to be involved with both eventually.
    It’s great that you all wish him well, let’s hope a bit of Devon sea air will do him good.

  16. NoIdea says:

    Nosing though the various vacancies I get in my mail box I was intrigued to see that there are jobs in Australia being offered for various interesting sounding jobs. I would post a link but it is behind a log in. (you can join free at

    “The Government of South Australia has launched a new campaign to poach stressed and bored Brits, after revealing an awe inspiring list of exciting and life changing jobs.

    From shark tagger to koala catcher, whale watcher to tuna toss judge at the Tunarama Festival, these jobs are in stark contrast to the UK’s long working hours, high taxes and increasing retirement age.

    Aimed at 18 to 30 year olds is the promise of the ultimate work/life balance.

    Unusual jobs on offer include:
    • Koala catcher, Kangaroo Island
    • Hooded dotterel bird counter, Kangaroo Island
    • Whale watcher, Kangaroo Island
    • Fairy penguin home remodeler, Kangaroo Island
    • Coopers Beer taster, Adelaide
    • Solar powered bus driver, Adelaide
    • Shark tagger, Port Lincoln
    • Shark personality profiling, Port Lincoln
    • Tuna Toss Judge at Tunarama Festival
    • Boat Building Judge at Tunarama Festival
    • Beach Babes Judge at Tunarama Festival
    • Prawn Toss at Tunarama Festival
    • King Fish Toss Judge at Tunarama Festival
    • Keg Roll Judge at Tunarama Festival
    • Sandcastle Judge at Tunarama Festival
    • Miss/Mr Tunarama Judge at Tunarama Festival
    • Watermelon Easting Contest Judge at Tunarama Festival
    • Sack Racing Judge at Tunarama Festival
    • Tindo Bus driver
    • Grassless golf course “greenkeeper”, Coober Pedy
    • ‘Roo poo’ harvester, Coober Pedy (that’d be Kangaroo Poo folks!)

    Open to anyone aged between 18 – 30 years old, the only requirement for applicants (other than standard working holiday visa criteria) is a passion for adventure and excitement.

    Boasting more than 300 days of sunshine a year and 3,148 miles of coastline, South Australia has something for everyone.”

    Shame all these positions are ageist, seems strange that they want to import 10 Brits to be judges at the Tunarama Festival, are these full time positions?
    Why do we do all those jobs, for instance Sandcastle Judge for free in the UK?
    Should we perhaps in the interest of fairness perhaps make some jobs up for our Australian friends?

    • Kipple catcher, Kipple town
    • Hooded scum mugger counter, Kipple town
    • Whale wannabe watchers, Kipple town
    • Fairy parent home remodeler, Kipple town
    • Stella Beer puker, Any town centre
    • Speed powered bus driver, Any town centre
    • Loan Shark tagger, Port of Last resort
    • Loan Shark personality profiling, Port of Last resort
    • You are a Toss Judge at the F UK arama Festival
    • Are you looking at my Boat(face)? Judge at F UK arama Festival
    • Belch Babes Judge at F UK arama Festival
    • Spawn Toss at F UK arama Festival
    • King Bish-bosh Toss Judge at F UK arama Festival
    • Smeg Roll Judge at F UK arama Festival
    • Dog mess and gumcastle Judge at F UK arama Festival
    • Miss/Mr Ultimate Tosser Judge at F UK arama Festival
    • Watermelon Easting[sic] hay fever Contest Judge at F UK arama Festival
    • Sack juggling and scratching Judge at F UK arama Festival
    • Totally empty Bus driver
    • Grassless stay at home “green speaker”, Cyber Pedy
    • ‘You poo’ harvester, Cyber Pedy (that’d be scum bags folks!)

    Boasting more than 300 days of cloud and rain a year and 11,073 miles of coastline, The UK has something for everyone.

    I am sure that I could cope with being a Solar powered bus driver, would it be more stressful than I imagine though?
    Would being the driver of a cloud controlled mobile chicane/roadblock win you many friends?


  17. Blackswan Tasmania says:


    You son, are gonna be the death of me. If you haven’t got me choking and spluttering over my breakfast, you’ve got me spitting coffee all over my keyboard.

    You are a very funny fella.
    I’ve never thought of a bus as a chicane, but it really is a most apt description.

    As for the rest, if it weren’t for English, Irish, Scots, German, Swedish “back-packers” all over this country, our Hospitality Industry would collapse. Our seasonal fruit & vine harvests would rot on the ground, our pubs would be empty and our brewers go broke. This is a fun place for young people.

    However, we have a sizeable army of Grey Nomads, retired folks who jump into a Winnebago or who hitch a caravan to a 4×4 and travel around the country, as well as Tasmania. Such a trek can last a few months or a couple of years and for some, it becomes a way of life. That’s really the best way to see all the mad off-the-wall pursuits that pass for fun for people of any age.

    We sure do have our own Kipple Towns, but they’re more spread out and easier to avoid – if you’re smart.

    A great piece NoIdea – thanks for the laughs.

  18. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Old Toad says:
    August 19, 2010 at 6:40 pm

    G’day Toad,

    Hope JD is feeling on top of things soon, and one or two of my suggestions may be of interest to him, or anyone who wants to know more about the “Weird Mob” down here in the Great Southern Ocean.


  19. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    A Mercury News report on the Whales in Hobart that I mentioned earlier in the day.

    How about that? The first whale calf born in the Derwent since 1820.

    Read the Comments. They’re a hoot.

  20. meltemian says:

    No, no, no you’ve got it all wrong! What James needs is not to read – he needs to relax completely by veg’ing out in front of a screen. Recommendations please for the DVD most likely to send him to sleep – he obviously needs a complete rest.
    I have a friend who has never made it past halfway watching Dr Zhivago!
    Alternately for a good laugh I reckon you can’t beat “Yes Minister/Yes Prime Minister”, puts government into perspective.

  21. Pointman says:

    “Lots of Republican candidates are denying climate science”

    I just love the sense of outrage in this piece. Delicious.


    Brilliant! – Oz

  22. Scud1 says:

    Splendid stuff Ni!

  23. manonthemoor says:

    See the latest JoNova piece here:-

    Together with two excellent downloadable primers about the global warming scam

    Click to access the_skeptics_handbook_2-3_lq.pdf

    Click to access the_skeptics_handbook_II-sml.pdf

    Particularly suitable for confused newbies to the AGW scam as opposed to GE who is enjoying his escape from us.

    As others have said get well soon James, the Bar and Grill is always open thanks to Oz

  24. Old Toad says:

    No Idea. Scrolling quickly through your list of jobs, I saw one which might have suited James, but on scrolling back I saw it actually read ‘ Shark TAGGER’ !

  25. Locusts says:

    He could watch Dumbo and have a good cry, and nobody would think any less of him. (Or at least I wouldn’t.)

  26. Locusts says:

    Whale watcher sounds like a good relaxing job. As long as it means watching real whales and not the bloated drunken kind that slap you in the face when you ask them if they could direct their vomit slightly further away from your shoe.

  27. suffolkboy says:

    Yes, this idea of sticking windmills on the top of city office blocks seems to be giving trouble. They seem token or architectural or grant-attractors, rather than having any engineering merit, as the power they generate is trivial.
    Columbo House (BT, vibrations annoy office workers, recalled by manufacturers after months, still[?] unreplaced):

    ANZ building (Rockefeller, blades broke or safety device removed them after months, street now re-opened):

    And doubtless many others around the world’s cities!

  28. NoIdea says:


    I think you are confusing whale watcher (Aus) with whale wannabe watchers (UK)
    The tendency of both to have a blow hole is of course confusing.


  29. memoryvault says:

    Quiet night I see.

    Where’s Izen when we need him?
    I want to compliment him – no really – I mean it.
    He wrote something really sensible a couple of days ago, and I’d like to discuss it further with him.

  30. memoryvault says:

    Even quieter than I thought.

    Night all

  31. NoIdea says:


    It appears that Joe Satriani, one of rock music’s most renowned electric guitarists, has announced that his highly anticipated 14th studio album “Black Swans and Wormhole Wizards” is to be released in the UK on Monday October 4th by Epic records. The album release dovetails Satch’s autumn UK tour, which kicks …off on October 17th at the Manchester Apollo.

    This is some Joe live.
    Nice to know you influence guitar gods eh?


  32. suffolkboy says:

    memoryvault said on: August 19, 2010 at 10:15 pm Where’s Izen when we need him?
    Shh! Don’t disturb him; he is doing his homework. He is working out numerical value of the “atmosphere effect”, that is to say, how much warmer it is at the bottom of a blanket of transparent fluid surrounding a planet with a surface gravity of 1g, compared to the “top”, given that the fluid (ozane)[1] does not absorb any radiation at all and has the density of air. He may need to get his calculator or even a spreadsheet out to this as well as the back of a fag-packet. He is also teaching anzon how to work out how much energy it would take to warm the planet’s oceans, land-masses and atmosphere by one degree, before replenishing the nuts.

    If you want me to keep him quiet for a year or two, I could set him to work to solve the Navier-Stokes equations for a rotating planet with equatorial warming and polar cooling, and see how long it takes to come up with the jet-stream. However, he might ask for a supercomputer and some more writing paper, and start talking Nuselt numbers at me.

    But seriously, I am expecting next term to find kiddies coming into A-level physics never having heard of adiabatic lapse rate and who are consequently convinced that the warmth of the atmosphere at ground level is caused solely by the absorption of solar radiation by “impurities” in the air. Can no-one raise 8 to the power of 5/3 these days!?

    And a great posting above by manonthemoor at August 19, 2010 at 9:24 pm re The Skeptic’s Handbook. I think this should be required reading for all secondary school teachers before 1st September 2010.

    And as JD and Amanda and others have said[2], it’s not about science any more; it’s about politics, which is essentially classroom teasing for grown-ups: “Bleagh, you don’t want to hang out with THAT gang, ‘coz they are ugly and smell (even if they have stolen all the beer-money)”.

    [1] suffolkboy said at August 18, 2010 at 9:12 am
    [2] scientificanomaly 08/17/2010 02:24 PM Recommended by
    38 people (top rating)

  33. Amanda says:

    NoIdea at 8:57

    I have a sneaking feeling that avoiding the Internet like the plague will be part of his convalescence….

    G’day Amanda, I’m sure you’re right. But he knows that we’re thinking of him – Oz

  34. Amanda says:

    NoIdea: loved your list but what’s a Kipple?

  35. NoIdea says:

    Hiya Amanda,

    I really should have given thanks to Locusts for Kipple, but I am not a fan of the hat-tipping phrase and was somewhat remiss in my duties.

    Is the site where Locusts showed me the definition of Kipple.
    With everything disposable and transient the Kipple tsunami is coming, can we design a Kipple barrier in time?


  36. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Hi Amanda,
    I had to Gargle it – means trash, rubbish etc.

    Notice you’ve been prolific on the DT today – some good posts.

  37. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    G’day NoIdea

    Looks like my definition for Amanda was a little too simplistic – as usual…lol

  38. Pointman says:

    Hello All,

    I believe the Japanese came up with the word Kipple.


  39. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Hi Pointy,
    I bow to your superior knowledge of linguistics.

  40. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    G’day suffolkboy,

    I went to your link to the JD/DT site to see why Scientificanomaly got 38 recommends.

    Couldn’t find it, and not inclined to go back too many pages – it was all so repetitious.

  41. memoryvault says:

    Hey Blackswan

    You remember the other day you asked me if a 600 deg F “glitch” could go “unnoticed” and create a warming bias, and I wrote a totally tongue-in-cheek, farcical reply?

    Turns out it wasn’t – who’d a thunk?

    Small quote from a new article: . . . . .”The U.S. physicist agrees there may now be thousands of temperatures in the range of 415-604 degrees Fahrenheit automatically fed into computer climate models and contaminating climate models with a substantial warming bias. This may have gone on for a far longer period than the five years originally identified.

    Anderson continues, “One has to marvel at either the scientific incompetence this reveals or the completely unethical behavior of NOAA and its paid researchers that is laid open before us.”

    And further down:

    Dr. Anderson sums up saying; “It is now perfectly clear that there are no reliable worldwide temperature records and that we have little more than anecdotal information on the temperature history of the Earth.”

    Full article here:

  42. suffolkboy says:

    Kipple is a man thing, especially as you get older. It’s the stuff that you really really don’t need, but you never could quite bring yourself to throw away, and which you have to keep stopping your other half impatiently throwing out, by coming up with embarrassing reasons (“antique value”, “sentimental value”). Nursery scribblings, teenage diaries, Max Bygraves LPs, Beanos, trousers with broken zips but otherwise serviceable, unused fondue sets, slightly broken toasters, cars, teddy bears. Ultimately it takes up two garages and a small warehouse and your kids eventually cart it to the tip when you die.

  43. suffolkboy says:

    Blackswan Tasmania says: August 20, 2010 at 8:27 am re ScientificAnomaly.
    I found it as “Order by best rating”. I think it posted over here on libertygibbert as well, but I have lost it. It was the list that began
    Why conservatives shouldn’t believe in man made climate change
    The ‘science’ doesn’t stand up to close inspection
    The satellite data is flawed
    People who believe in it are ugly and they smell

  44. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    memoryvault says:
    August 20, 2010 at 8:32 am

    G’day MV,

    Who’d a thunk it indeed. There was me, a poorly educated hick-swan from the frozen back-blocks of Tasmania, suggesting that lazy/conniving “scientists” might be putting an automatic feed of temperature anomalies into their models, and screwing the whole thing up.

    Why, I even had my Cygnet, the Commerce/IT/Marketing ANU Graduate, patiently explaining the parameters of statistical analysis to me. “Scientists just don’t DO that sort of thing”. Yeah, right.

    Thanks MV, you’ve brightened my day.

  45. Pointman says:

    Hi Swan, I say the Japanese came up with it because I was told so by a Japanese. Their meaning for Kipple isn’t just rubbish or litter, it’s a bit more subtle. It’s things that get thrown away which were always inessential, even when they were new.


  46. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    suffolkboy says:
    August 20, 2010 at 8:42 am


    I’m a reformed Kipple-hoarder. I’ve been systematically working my way through our house (it’s an ongoing project) sifting through “stuff” and hitting the Delete button.

    To thwart the “chucking -it-out-when-they’re-dead” syndrome, we’ve even taking to decorating the house in a style and colours that our Cygnet likes. A mocked parent’s revenge. “Throw THAT out, you bugger, you know you love it”. So they’ll be haunted by our “stuff”, though I suspect you’ll still find it all on Ebay eventually…lol

  47. Pointman says:

    It doesn’t really matter what numbers they feed into the models. The models are trying to simulate complex non-linear systems and doomed to failure as a consequence. Chaos Theory grew out of Lorenz’s work in meteorology.


  48. memoryvault says:


    Too true, my good man, too true.

    But doesn’t it leave a warm, comforting afterglow when the buggers actually get caught out fiddling with the data to make it fit a complex non-linear system?

    Certainly hits the spot for me.

  49. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Hi Pointy,
    I absolutely agree with your “things that get thrown away which were always inessential” perspective – the Salvation Army Op Shops have done very well out of our recent acknowledgment of that fact.

    This house has almost no storage space so it was fortuitous that we finally “twigged” – we have way too much “stuff”.

    The hardest thing to shed are my books – they’re part of my DNA, so I guess they’ll have to stay, for as long as I do anyway….lol

  50. Pointman says:

    Hi MV.

    It hits the “G” spot for me too. How many times and in how many ‘studies’, have they been caught out either cherry picking or massaging the data FFS? The science is rubbish but it always was, just like Kipple.


  51. memoryvault says:

    JD, former God-Emperor, gets a nice write-up here – pity about the photo though.

    Pity everybody’s stuck on the “one world guvmint” line.

  52. Pointman says:

    Blackswan Tasmania says:
    August 20, 2010 at 9:11 am

    I have the same problem or inability to throw away books. Every room in the house has books, though the rate of acquisition has gone down in the last few years. This is because I have no problem reading them in soft format on the screen. Not many people are comfortable doing that but I get along with it fine. It’s good to have a selection of books with you when you’re travelling and it also obviates the embarrassment of refusing to loan books to people – I’ve lost too many good ones in that way over the years.


  53. memoryvault says:

    JD – our former God-Emperor – gets a good write-up here – pity about the photo though.

    Too bad everybody’s still stuck on the “world guvmint” line.

  54. Pointman says:

    memoryvault says:
    August 20, 2010 at 9:24 am

    I agree. It would be simplistic in the extreme to think of it as a small part of some massive ‘global goverance’ conspiracy. These people will cooperate on areas of mutual interest but beyond that, nothing.


  55. memoryvault says:

    Oh well, that’s it.

    Time to go to the vets where I am almost certainly going to be told I need a pacemaker.

    I wonder if they come in a sports model with a turbocharger?

    Good luck with that mate. Make sure you come back in one piece – Oz

  56. Blackswan Tasmania says:


    Good luck. Nice of you to keep us posted.

  57. Pointman says:

    Whatever you do, don’t get the Photovoltaic model. It’s even worse than the wind powered one – you’d look silly with a mini windmill on your head anyway. Go nuclear and it’ll ensure you’re buried rather than cremated when you peg out.


  58. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    If he goes nuclear, Mrs Thumper will be able to find him in the dark – just follow that green glow.

  59. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Now I’ve heard everything.

    Listening to Sydney radio on the ‘net, courts in Saudi Arabia will consider “surgically damaging a defendant’s spinal cord” as punishment for injuries caused to another man.

    If “eye for an eye” can be taken to those lengths, the Lockerbie bomber should have been dropped from a height of 30,000 feet. Maybe it could be called an “early release” program.

  60. Amanda says:

    Hi everyone.

    NoIdea: thanks for the new word. I realize now that I am anti-kipple. Also, Suffolkboy seems to understand Mr Amanda who is somewhat kipplish: it only took 20 years or so until he finally decided to chuck several laundry bags’ worth of Grateful Dead cassette tapes (bearing in mind that we no longer have a casette player, many of them were awful recordings, tapes deteriorate with age, and he can hear all the concerts online now). We have Boy Scout badges and scarves, Dungeons & Dragons instruction books, notebooks in illegible handwriting from his university days (never to be read again, but they’re terribly important), and a fancy shoehorn which his father gave him though neither of them have ever used it to put their shoes on. I’m completely liberated compared with this. I *know* how to throw things out (or give them away). On the other hand, it’s always the thing you hang on to for years and then throw out that you find you need the next day!

  61. Amanda says:

    However, our movers appear to have pinched the silver (even unscrewing the stand from a Clarice Cliff tazza which wasn’t silver but sort of looked like it). The silverware certainly wasn’t kipple, though not my taste really (an heirloom).

  62. Amanda says:

    Hi Blackswan,

    Thanks about the DT posts: funny thing was, I’ve hardly been on the Internet today. Just couldn’t let ‘bje’ and ‘aphillips’ dominate everything.

    As for not throwing out books, I’m with you and Pointman. Moving is always difficult because we have a lot of rare, out-of-print or hard-to-find books, and movers — who tend not to be readers, never mind book-collectors — don’t understand that they are treasures to be treated with great care. I gave them all, this time, explicit instructions as they were gathered in my living room: stack the books flat, don’t shove them in this way and that — and of course, they completely ignored me. And which books were damaged? Exactly. The ones that were not packed flat.

  63. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Wow, Amanda,
    Sorry to hear you have chosen a bunch of crooks to move your stuff.
    Makes a U-Haul move sound more attractive – can’t trust anyone these days.

  64. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    There’s one advantage to being a don’t-trust-anybody cynic.
    We always pack our own, create our own manifest and get separate insurance.
    Some people describe this affliction as being a control-freak.
    However, if you called in for a cuppa on moving-in day, I could tell in just which boxes I’d find all the makings.
    Then we could put our feet up and have a natter. Not always easy, but simple.

  65. Pointman says:

    I’ve never actually moved house though I’ve lived and worked in many countries. I bought one place and just kept it as a base. It was out of the way enough to be big enough and is pretty well filled at this stage but emptying it out to move somewhere else would require an airlift and the destination would have to be Shangri La or Wallawoora. The Sun’s going down here so I’ll retire.


  66. Amanda says:

    Blackswan: After this debacle, I’m very sympathetic to that approach….

  67. Amanda says:

    I always lose or damage something when I move — or someone loses and damages it for me (usually the latter). But staying in the same place has never been an option. Anyway it’s been good to say ‘so long, Houston!’

    Interesting wedding — the actual marriage must have seemed an anti-climax after that.

  68. Amanda says:

    Actually Blackswan, the company is a well-known one because Chris was worried about a fly-by-night company we couldn’t trust. Fat lot of good that did us.

  69. mlpinaus says:

    memoryvault says:
    August 20, 2010 at 8:32 am

    Thanks for the link. Left my son, a gifted Chemical Engineer, working out the local atmospheric pressure necessary to keep the lake of water liquid at 500 F, so that nobody would notice…. He is busy forwarding this link to others he knows who vote…. This is why we need an internet filter…Must not get confused with facts….

    I’d say somewhere between about 5MPa and 5,000MPa according to this diagram

    Facts are empirical and outdated Marcus. We’re in the era of post-normal science now – Oz 😦

  70. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    mlpinaus says:
    August 20, 2010 at 11:06 am

    G’day Marcus,
    At least your son is gifted/smart enough to listen to a few facts when he is presented with them. It’s so galling to have my gifted/smart Cygnet defending the incompetent/culpable cabal of Climate Frauds. After all, they are “scientists”, wear white coats, have half the alphabet strung after their names – why would they lie and cover-up anything?

    Yeah, right.

  71. memoryvault says:

    Blackswan – Pointman

    Thanks for all the welcome, and wise advice regarding choice of power plants.

    However, it turns out, as a side-effect of things turning really nasty last Friday night, huge clumps of my formerly beautiful, shoulder-length hair fell out, and I now have several large patches of smooth, bare, lilly-white skin on the top and back of my head. I didn’t actually notice, but Thumper sure as hell did when I got home.

    Anyway, that being the case it would be silly of me not to utilise this new resource and stick in some solar cells.

    After all, it’s not as though the Council can do me for illegal clearing.

  72. memoryvault says:


    Look on the bright side with Cygnet – at least she is still young enough to learn and change her mind.

    I have a son who was taken away from me and the girl involved at birth – we were underage at the time and that’s what they did in those days. Anyway, he sought me out last year and we’ve been getting to know each other ever since.

    Today he’s a likable enough 40 year old, but educated in the bosom of the ultra-left wing Women’s Lib Movement at Murdoch University in Perth WA. Was apparently one of those “professional students” for about a decade and eventually ended up with a Computer Science degree with a major in Eco-Feminism. (Yeah – that’s what I said – go figure).

    To him it’s all gospel – he’s not simply convinced – he’s a BELIEVER. Mann, Hansen, Jones et al are as Gods to him.

    I spent an entire evening explaining to him, and eventually convincing him, that no current “green” technology could supply baseload power, and that, in fact, what he and his green mates were thinking of as baseload power wasn’t even close to right.

    Rather than being grateful for this enlightenment, he sulked for a month before contacting me again. Things have been a bit brittle ever since.

  73. mlpinaus says:

    Blackswan Tasmania says:
    August 20, 2010 at 11:23 am

    Morning Blackswan. I think that a part of the problem lies with the dumbing down of the education system. We no longer insist that kids have a basic education in science and maths, before moving on to the humanities. Maths is now what a pocket calculator does, and science is “done” by a priest class in white robes…… Most of the world is too busy surviving with their heads down and bums up to actually see what is happening. It’s the old farts who have the time…… The world is even more complicated than when “The Two Cultures” was written. My son is interested in what he calls “machine biology”. Can’t really understand him at all. I haven’t paid the educational price of admission to his world of biotechnology, yet I trust him. What the AGW scam has done is to destroy this trust in climate study because of the terribly human weaknesses of its practitioners….. Nah, shut up Marcus, Go back to scaring yourself about the weather coming back from Bundaberg next month…..

  74. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Sheesh MV,

    Poor Mrs MV. Bet her sense of humour has dwindled with your locks. If your new site for PV cells is caused by stress, regular scalp massage with Vitamin E oil will help improve blood-flow to your starved follicles and may bring back your tresses (I’ve seen it work).

    If not, a No.4 buzz-cut is next, grow a beard to compensate, a red bandanna tied round your noggin and a full set of black leathers will complete your new look.

    You don’t have to actually ride a Harley, but you’ll sure get quick service at the Bar.

    Hope the vet had good news and tell the Council to get stuffed.

  75. MV people don’t like to have there comfortable version of reality shattered in a gazillion pieces with things like facts or truth. You bruised your sons ego, reality will only hit when the lights go out but no doubt some bright young thing will have a propaganda excuse for that one. A lot of people bought into Hitlers lie and it took the destruction of Germany and his death to free their minds. Eventually some way he will get it but it may be a hard lesson.

  76. mlpinaus I would more attention to your son on the biotech front because this in a few years really has the potential to change the world and make some people filthy rich. If it gets to the yes this is really easy to do stage then some religion of peace loonies will be given the cheap tools to create something to kill the infidel with and everyone else I didn’t say they were logical about it.

  77. memoryvault says:


    It’s OK – Thumper’s sense of humour is still intact – a bit battered maybe, but she’s still smiling at me over her laptop at the other end of the kitchen table.

    The vet assures me the hair will grow back – just a stress of the moment thing. But I’ll keep the vitamin E in mind. On the other matter it seems the problem is not electrical but more likely plumbing – a leaky or blown valve. More tests – sigh.

    In the meantime I already have the bandanna, the beard and the leather jacket. I’d happily go get a Harley tomorrow but Thumper won’t let me. In fact, forsaking hogs and hang-gliders pretty-much formed part of my wedding vows.

    The things we do for love.

  78. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    mlpinaus says:
    August 20, 2010 at 12:02 pm

    Hi Marcus,
    What you say is all true. We bring up our kids to believe in themselves, but lo and behold, we find they suddenly believe in somebody else, trading their commonsense and integrity for what has been stuffed in their heads on the drip-feed since their kindy days. I guess it’s a case of crossing our fingers and hoping for the best eventually.

    Are you piloting yourself home from Bundy? Just when we need implicit faith in weather forecasters too. Best of luck with that and a safe journey home for you and yours.

  79. memoryvault says:


    I agree with everything you say, and I would have avoided the situation if at all possible.

    But he actually asked me to explain baseload to him – so that he could explain to me how it would be handled in future.

  80. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Mrs Thumper,
    Those smiles of yours will prove to be much better medicine than whatever the vet comes up with.

  81. mlpinaus says:

    crownarmourer says:
    August 20, 2010 at 12:16 pm
    Gidday Crown. Sort of agree. You must rely upon the basic humanity of people, from generation to generation. I realise we have turned out a Stalin and a Hitler and lesser tyrants; and the sons of the Prophet are medieval and scary, but all you can do is be rational, be polite, be firm about being buggered about, and carry on. The world of biotechnology has a whole new language that I haven’t paid the price to understand. I have a good background in maths, physics and chemistry, but while I had my head down and arse up for 40 years, biology grew. It’s the kids world now. And possibly the Prophets.

  82. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    At least he asked you to explain something. Half your battle’s done. It’s the sulking bit that nails me. We’ve reached a truce wherein we agree to disagree.

    After all, everybody has the right to be wrong…lol

    When the lights go out and the taxes are strangling them, maybe they’ll remember we fogies were right after all. 20/20 hindsight is a wonderful thing.

  83. MV I am close to your sons age I used to think my dad was a grade A wossname who didn’t know jack, fatherhood cured me of that one when it was revealed to my eyes he may have been onto something after all.
    As for the eco nonesense was trained as a geologist a pretty straight subject at the time and we had all the time in the world to mine and drill and if you we’re really good the gods would let you explore the most dangerous places on the whole planet. So when people talk science at me I understand it although I suspect the fizzycysts are making it up as they go along now.

  84. mlpinaus says:

    Blackswan Tasmania says:
    August 20, 2010 at 12:39 pm
    Yes; I’ll fly the new J230 back to Murray Bridge in September. Did it in 2007 with the old one. I’ll take a mate in the right hand seat who has 4000 odd hours up in his log book to cover my arse. 1000 nautical miles is a way though. Still, the weather is the biggest variable, and the forecast is very often wrong, despite the science of forecasting being settled……

  85. mlpinaus I like all science so I read all the developments I can the most exciting for me is currently micro rna strands exciting because it finally gives evolution a mechanism that explains how a tiny change has a big impact on protein expression on how it can work. Evolution had some major flaws in the theory this plugs those holes.
    The sons of the prophet have over reached themselves and a lot of the west is waking up to the threat, Denmark and France notably.

  86. memoryvault says:


    Another whippersnapper eh?

    Just joshing. My best mate at high school wanted to be a geologist so he could go drill holes in the most dangerous places on earth.

    Finished his degree and immediately became smitten with a young lady who absolutely forbade him to go anywhere where he couldn’t be home every evening for dinner.

    Poor bugger became a uni professor teaching geology, and lived miserably ever after.

    At least Thumper continues to let me indulge my passion for playing with really Big Boy’s Toys, even though with the health issues and all, she gets a bit scared each time I leave.

  87. Blackswan when things do go pear shaped the left will blame the old folks for it all not their own policies. Expect health care to be withdrawn from the elderly.

  88. MV well I may not have gotten to practice geology myself but I did get my wish to live in one of the most dangerous places on Earth Memphis.

  89. mlpinaus says:

    crownarmourer says:
    August 20, 2010 at 1:19 pm
    I do hope so. Christianity has had time to calm down from its Middle Ages extremes. The Sons are relatively younger. If they did not control the oil, nobody would have noticed. The Western countries are now just too polite. Adelaide University is now installing hole in the floor bogs, so that the foreign students can crap squatting down.
    My son came home livid on the topic. I said ” Insh Allah”

  90. mlpinaus even when I went to college they let them take over an entire restroom for their ablutions which involved washing their feet in the toilet. Not quite what the prophet had in mind.

  91. Blackswan Tasmania says:


    “Expect health care to be withdrawn from the elderly.”

    Gee thanks, just when I’ve reached senior citizen status.

    I hate to tell you, but they already do. Go on, just ask me about the tribulations my late mother suffered before she eventually obliged the System by finally succumbing to their ministrations. No, don’t – my typing fingers would be worn down to the first knuckle in no time.

  92. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    You’re a smart man MV, with an even smarter wife.

    Who’s a lucky boy then?

  93. Well back home at least in my home area they are pretty good still at providing help for the elderly I’m not sure how long that will last, but if Granny is 99 and needs a hip replacement they know it’s pointless as the surgery may kill them.

  94. memoryvault says:


    I know mate, I know.

    Mind you, she’s got a temper when she wants. She’s not called “Thumper” for nothing.
    And when her goat’s up, she go from Thumper through Whacker to Stomper in pretty quick time. Her brothers are all even bigger than I am, and they are terrified of her.

    Still, to be honest, I usually deserve it.

  95. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    mlpinaus says:
    August 20, 2010 at 1:37 pm

    Marcus, you just put my blood pressure through the roof.

    And Crown, even worse.

    I thought it was bad enough when Sydney Airport provided a special room for the kissing-the-ground routine of the taxi-drivers, providing free parking for the taxis while hapless motorists wanting to pick up departing passengers are penalised with the highest airport parking fees in the world.

    At least this is heartening news……..

  96. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    memoryvault says:
    August 20, 2010 at 1:57 pm

    MV, You know all that is just a defense mechanism.

    Mrs Thumper – if he gets a Harley with a side-car, you can go too without clinging to the pillion. On second thoughts, put MV in the side-car and you drive the bike. Those Sharon Stone pins of your would look great in leathers…….no?

    Ah shucks, it was just a thought….lol

  97. memoryvault says:


    A Harley with a sidecar???????

    Shame, Blacky, shame.

    As for Thumper in leather – yes, bloody fantastic.

  98. mlpinaus says:

    Facts are empirical and outdated Marcus. We’re in the era of post-normal science now – Oz

    Oz, reckon that’s about right. Occam’s razor has just been banned under OHS rules…..

  99. Blackswan Tasmania says:


    When my kids were in primary school a bloke used to pick up his son every day in just such a machine. That boy was king- o’- the-kids.

    A couple of young blokes in Hobart had side-cars on their bikes and used to take tourists for rides to all the local attractions. We stopped to chat with a flushed and excited lady who was extricating herself from the side-car one day, saying “You look like you’ve had a good time.” She and her friend who had ridden in the other one waxed lyrical for about 10 minutes on what a terrific time they’d had.

    Don’t be such a purist MV, side-cars are cool. It all depends on who’s riding in them.

    For anyone thinking of visiting Tasmania and likes a bit of excitement… my brother knows this bloke who runs trike tours. He’s also the mayor of Glamorgan-Spring Bay – Oz

  100. memoryvault says:


    Got nothing against side-cars, they can be great fun.
    In fact, if I could talk Thumper into it, right now I reckon a Honda Goldwing with a sidecar, just the two of us and a tent and the open road – well such is the stuff dreams are made of.

    But a hog ain’t a motorbike – it’s an institution, a rite-of-passage, a religion.

    Putting a side-car on a Harley falls into the same category as giving Jesus a smiley face on the cross, or designing a mini-skirted Burqa for Islamic ladies.

  101. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    mlpinaus says:
    August 20, 2010 at 2:29 pm

    As you guys are always expanding my limited formal education, I Gargled, whereupon Wiki told me………….

    “The principle is often expressed in Latin as the lex parsimoniae (translating to the law of parsimony, law of economy or law of succinctness)”

    Who knew? I’m the living embodiment of Occam’s Principle – parsimony (always looking for Bargains & Specials), economy (won’t use Credit Cards – keeping the Budget balanced) and succinctness (well, I’m working on that)…….lol

  102. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    G’day Ozboy,

    I’ve seen those trikes down at Salamanca – look good.

    “Harley” was just my euphemism for a vehicle with 2 wheels, an engine and goes broooom, broooom.

    You’re right, although the guy picking up his boy at school definitely had a Harley, albeit a smallish one.

  103. memoryvault says:


    Okay – all is forgiven. Although I’d be careful where I used that definition of a Harley if I were you.

    Trikes can be good too. Never ridden one myself, but I did a contract up in Townsville a few years ago. There was a couple – early forties – every weekend you’d see them out on their matching trikes.

    Midnight-blue metalflake finish, hi-rise bars, lay-back seats over fully-blown Porsche donks. Man, did they move.

    And they were such an ORDINARY looking middle-aged couple – accountants.

  104. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    “I’d be careful where I used that definition”

    I like to live on the edge…

  105. Pointman says:

    G’Day all.

    MV, I’ve been thinking about how you can those pictures of your area onto the web and have an idea. It a bit left field and a bit sneaky but would be a nice one to pull off. Get in touch with the biggest greenie campaign in Tassie which is fighting some rational development or another. There has to be one; there always is. Offer them the pictures to put up on their website showing beautiful unspoilt Tasmania. Use a bit of blarney and guile etc etc.

    It’ll make the green money machine work in your direction for once.

    Pointman (aka Wiley E Coyote)

  106. Pointman says:

    I’ve been monitoring the spread of Locust’s China piece and the results are interesting if you’re interested in Information Theory. After 24 hours Google was showing about 2500 hits on sites that mentioned it. It’s been growing exponentially ever since. The day before yesterday it was showing 52,00 hits. Today it’s showing 133,00 hits. Tomorrow ? Find out for yourself.

    Google using the search phrase

    “chinese really think of ‘man made global”

    Keep the quotes when you google.


  107. Locusts says:

    I’d rather use a squatter these days.

  108. Locusts says:

    Hurrah! I’m famous!

  109. Mrs MV says:

    Just for fun and laughs:

    In ancient Greece (469 – 399 BC), Socrates was widely lauded for his wisdom.

    One day an acquaintance ran up to him excitedly and said, “Socrates, do you know what I just heard about Diogenes?”

    “Wait a moment,” Socrates replied, “Before you tell me I’d like you to pass a little test. It’s called the Triple Filter Test.” ‘Triple filter?” asked the acquaintance.

    “That’s right,” Socrates continued, “Before you talk to me about Diogenes let’s take a moment to filter what you’re going to say. The first filter is Truth. Have you made absolutely sure that what you are about to tell me is true?”

    “No,” the man said, “Actually I just heard about it.”

    “All right,” said Socrates, “So you don’t really know if it’s true or not. Now let’s try the second filter, the filter of Goodness. Is what you are about to tell me about Diogenes something good?”

    “No, on the contrary…”

    “So,” Socrates continued, “You want to tell me something about Diogenes that may be bad, even though you’re not certain it’s true?”

    The man shrugged, a little embarrassed. Socrates continued, “You may still pass the test though, because there is a third filter, the filter of Usefulness. Is what you want to tell me about Diogenes going to be useful to me?”

    “No, not really.”

    “Well,” concluded Socrates, “If what you want to tell me is neither True nor Good nor even Useful, why tell it to me or anyone at all?” The man was bewildered and ashamed.

    This is an example of why Socrates was a great philosopher and held in such high esteem.

    It also explains why Socrates never found out that Diogenes was shagging his wife.

  110. NoIdea says:

    On the subject of 2 wheeled vehicles and their simple 3 wheeled cousins, I find that 3 wheels have all the downsides of both 4 and 2 wheeled transport combined in one device.
    You can be stuck in traffic and the rain on a trike or motorcycle and sidecar.
    At least on a bike you may get wet but you can make it through the traffic, at least in a car you can listen to music while sat in the jam with the heater on and wipers going.
    Then there are Robin Reliants, Jeremy Clarkson did a fair review on those…

    This short clip gives you some idea of the interesting handling characteristics.

    Having worked in a Harley shop and ridden several, I own a big fat V twin made by Suzuki.
    I have not had the chance to ride one of these new fangled fuel injected Harleys (other than a Buell)
    The clincher for me is shaft drive verses belt drive, in the UK with our nasty gritty salty roads the belt is too exposed and the coating on the “rear pulley” tends to flake off.
    There are quite a few alternatives to Harley power plants available these days the one at
    Is perhaps a touch massive, but isn’t it pretty?


  111. Pointman says:

    Mrs MV says:
    August 20, 2010 at 6:49 pm

    Philosophy! What a learned bunch of rascals we are. Seriously though, Philosophy is important. Kant said to do is to be, Sarte said to be is to do but ol’ blue eyes got it right when he said dobedobedo


  112. memoryvault says:


    I first read through your post too quickly. At the end I thought “what a ridiculous plan – only a complete idiot with no idea whatsoever of the Australian bush beyond a suburban terrace garden could ever mistake the Pilbara and/or the Kimberleys for Tasmania”.

    Then I realised you were talking about a GREENS website.

    My apologies Sir. The idea has significant merit and is virtually foolproof.

    Interesting figures re the Locusts article on Google – wonder how long before they start censoring returns a la “climategate”?

  113. Mrs MV says:

    And William Shakespeare (Hamlet) said “to be, or not to be”.

    But I agree with your dobedobedo……..

  114. Pointman says:

    memoryvault says:
    August 20, 2010 at 7:03 pm

    MV mate, if you can pull that one off, it would be fecking fantastic.

    On the climategate aspect of the story, I suppose it’s beneath their radar. They don’t appear to be manipulting the results – yet. There’s a lot of results but sampling through them it’s interesting how many anti AGW blogs/sites there are around the world. I’ve been wondering how it could be possible to get them all working together.


  115. Pointman says:

    BTW, Plan B is even sneakier but of debatable legality …


  116. Blackswan Tasmania says:


    I’m off to Canberra via Melbourne next Tuesday – does my memory serve me correctly? Didn’t you want me to photograph something for you when I’m over there? If you think of it just Email me.

  117. memoryvault says:


    Aw c’mon – I’ve lived a full and interesting life, I fought the CIA, MOSSAD and MI6 and lived to boast the tale, I’ve had a book written about me, and now I’ve got a dodgy ticker to the extent that the physical stress is causing my hair to fall out, and you want to get squeamish about a bit of “legality”?

    Just give me Plan B and we’ll work on the details of avoiding incarceration later.

  118. memoryvault says:


    Thanks for reminding me.

    I’ll put your “non-tourists guide to Canberra”, including what I’d like photographed, together over the weekend and email to you

  119. Pointman says:

    Plan B is beating the Greenies at their own game. Basically we invent a nonexistent threat to the area and you apply for some funding to fight the threat. You know the area, what’s reasonably plausible, a hydro project, koala farming, extermination of all Squirrels?

    I’m sure the guys and gals in the bar will help out on phase 1. Lots of protest posts to Greenie sites, stoke it up a bit, let it get to a boil, ignore all denials from the authorities and when it’s just right, you the saviour step in and blag the funds. Job done.


  120. manonthemoor says:

    August 20, 2010 at 6:33 pm

    Following your thoughts on information theory

    My ‘off the cuff thoughts’

    With regard to Google, I too have been following the progress of the Locusts/Oz /JD posts and from an initial view it seems that most have been picked up from the JD source not surprisingly.

    A number of things are however clear:-

    1/ The report/blog has gone world wide
    2/ 50% link back to the original JD post
    3/ A significant number of the other 50% have lifted the whole article.
    4/ Locusts, and Oz are now firmly on the map alongside JD
    5/ So far interest is growing like the Climategate emails, below the radar.

    This however begs the questions:-

    1/ Was the world waiting for another opportunity to challenge AGW?
    2/ How will this exposure affect JD’s problems?
    3/ As Pointman has indicated how to we mobilise or consolidate the anti AGW groups?
    4/ How best to make use of this new found fame?
    5/ Could we see a reaction from the Chinese?
    6/ Will there be fallout in the MSM or politics of AGW
    7/ Will this affect matters finance, cap n trade and carbon decisions.
    8/ The report was uncomplimentary about Wind and Solar will anyone now listen?

    The above thoughts are not ordered nor intended in any way to be derogatory and merely intended to be food for thought.

    The good news is that the LG site is now firmly established as a brand leader and a place to visit. Long may it remain so!

    Man on the Moor

  121. Mrs MV says:


    MV is cooking at the moment, so he cannot answer, so I have read your reply to him.

    He says he LIKES it. He is thinking in terms of a previously undiscovered 40 thousand year old sacred site. Our Greens get ten times more ape-shit about such long dead things, than they do about the living. Go figure.

    He will mull on it over dinner, but will get back to you, and he is very excited about the prospect.

  122. Pointman says:

    Mrs MV says:
    August 20, 2010 at 8:01 pm

    Some sort of strip mining might work well. You know, destroy the landscape, kill off all the cuddly creatures. Anything worth digging up out of the ground there?


  123. Mrs MV says:


    MV says, there’s LOTS of things to strip mine here.

    Iron, Nickel, Coal, Gold, Uranium, Thorium, rare earth elements, etc.

    All the things the Greens hate.

    So, obviously where these things need to be stripped mined, is directly underneath our newly discovered sacred site.

    MV is thinking of a cave with previously undiscovered rock drawings. MV knows how to make white and red ochre paint.

    He also knows several suitable caves, a half day drive from his site location.

    He continues to mull and cook.

    (Who said men couldn’t do two things at once – dictate to me and cook at the same time – I am impressed 🙂

  124. Mrs MV says:


    Thank you for your comments today. It has been a trial. But you made me laugh when I wanted to cry. 🙂

  125. Pointman says:

    If someone were to visit those caves to do a bit of interior decoration they might also consider bringing along a shotgun and doing a bit of Gold ‘salting’. A finishing touch, as it were …


  126. Mrs MV says:

    MV is about to serve dinner.

    After that, he will be tied up for a couple of hours.

    Thumper hath spoken.

  127. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Mrs Thumper & MV,

    Here in southern Tasmania, we have two mega-million dollar road developments (about 20 years overdue and desperately needed) in progress and each one of them is being held up by…………wait for it………. the discovery of some sharp stones in the long dry grass of the paddocks where the bulldozers WERE working.

    No bones, no artifacts, no rock-art, no middens, no nuffin – just a broadly scattered patch of little sharp stones. Were these little sharp stones formed from Ice Age Glaciers grinding their way through valleys? Maybe. Were they turned over in the soil or rocks broken up by early settlers/convicts ploughing the fields? Maybe.

    The local descendants of our long-gone aborigines suspect that they MAY have been held in the hands of their ancestors and POSSIBLY used to scrape wallaby hides 40,000 years ago. They have been aided in drawing this conclusion by a British (I think, but I can find out) woman anthropologist who came all this way to lend them her “expert” opinion.

    Result? All work stopped. Compromise. We’ll build an $11 million bridge over the paddock so we don’t disturb the stones. OK. Ooops. Found another patch of sharp stones at the second worksite. Another bridge. OK. Oooops. The work will infringe upon the “integrity” of the “sacred site”. It will restrict the access of the descendants to be able to pick up the stones once held in the hands of the ancestors. Maybe.

    This is a true story. See how you can work that little scenario into your ideas.

    Usually in Oz we have such major works held up by disturbing the habitat of legless lizards (a bit like an earthworm, but with eyes), or frogs, or parrots and such. But I think that out in the arid wastes of the Pilbara or the Kimberley, you should be able to find a few “endangered” little sharp stones.

    Just a thought.

  128. NoIdea says:

    What is it with the obsession that melons have with peer-reviewed papers, I have a feeling it is just the first part of the word that fixates them.

    There is no pee, in the dictionary

    There is pee-been a type of Australian hardwood evergreen tree
    There is peek to look with a sly and furtive glance
    There is peel the natural coatings of certain kinds of fruits (melons?)
    There is peenge to complain
    There is peep to utter a short sharp cry
    But then peep can also mean to peer (or peek) or look furtively through a small hole from concealment
    Only after peeping tom and peep show do we finally reach peer…

    Peer to look narrowly or searchingly, to look with difficulty or concentration at someone or something; a member of the nobility in Britain or Ireland, comprising the ranks of duke, marquess, earl, viscount, and baron; Then there is peer an equal as in natural gifts or social rank.

    Some other pee related words are peery, a child’s top spun with a spring, peeved, vexed; discontented; disagreeable, and at the end there is pee-wee, anything or anyone especially small or insignificant.

    In summary, cold summery

    Evergreen melons with sly and furtive peeks
    Complaining short cry’s still peeping
    Peering Tom and Peking shows
    Noble spun equal spring top lows
    Vexed perhaps with pee-wee why’s
    Peer reviewed and full of lies
    Bent and evil tales of heat
    No chilly tales when full of it

    Who gets to decide who my peers are?
    If I was a melon would my peers be pears?


  129. manonthemoor says:

    Just a further comment about my ‘Information Theory’ post at 6:33pm today

    I have spent the last couple of hours exploring some of the links highlighted by Google.

    As I have already commented the links are world wide, but also the comments attached to the sites are equally fascination, not just the whole AGW scam but the windmills, the solar and the carbon credits shambles all figure strongly in comments.

    It appears that a lot of Joe Public are finally waking up to the lies and propaganda they have been fed by governments, education and MSM.

    The next stage will be when enough momentum is achieved for Joe Public to stand up and say stop.

    Stop taxing us for AGW
    Stop indoctrinating our people.
    Stop wast OUR money on subsidies for renewables
    Stop this personal carbon allowance nonsense
    Stop talk of smart meters.

    But Start

    Ensuring our energy resources are effectively used.
    Ensuring the lights stay ON
    Ensure the West is not doomed to third world status

    Man on the Moor

  130. ramemory says:

    Mr manonthemoor

    Why not keep it simple.

    Stop making decisions for us, on behalf of our “well being” (fat tax, smoking tax, alcohol tax) etc.

    Stop making decision for us on behalf of our “future well being” (carbon tax, renewables research funding etc.)

    Stop using tax payer dollars on unsubstantiated claims to convince the general populace that the new taxes are for our own good via adverts and news articles. (I guess that comes under “indoctrinating our people”).

    I agree with everything past “but start”


  131. meltemian says:

    Cheer-up MV, if all else fails try the ZZTop disguise.
    I’ve been desperately trying to find a Boss Hogg with ZZTop backing but I’ve failed.

  132. memoryvault says:


    You aspire to owning Hogzilla??

    But . . . . . .but. . . . . . . . .you’re a. . . . . . . . . .girl!!!!!

    Besides, you couldn’t grow the necessary beard.
    Well, for your sake, I hope not.

  133. memoryvault says:

    God I can be brave when Thumper’s asleep.

  134. manonthemoor says:

    August 20, 2010 at 10:30 pm

    Welcome ramemory to the Oz bar and Grill, enjoy the warm fire and friendly company.

    You comments are welcome, we all have our individual style, and of course our individual concerns.

    Please feel free to post your own thoughts for others to enjoy, particularly as I suspect you are not UK based.

    Note to ALL it seems from adverts for the book it is either a No 1 best seller or No 3, either way a big hit in the Chinese book stakes.

  135. meltemian says:

    In that case perhaps I should have posted “Legs” for you!
    Although Mrs Thumper would probably give us both “what for” when she found out.
    Shouldn’t get you excited in the circumstances.
    As to the beard – well maybe the odd whisker.
    Love the noise a Boss Hogg makes – it’s unmistakeable isn’t it?

  136. NoIdea says:

    I found a Boss Hoss with AC/DC backing if that’s any help.

    700 horses have to be enough surely?


  137. Locusts says:

    either way a big hit in the Chinese book stakes

    Well it is now, any way.

  138. memoryvault says:

    Blackswan and Pointy

    Okay, so far we’ve got:

    A new, as yet unannounced discovery of a new mother-lode of mixed ore a la Olympic Dam – iron, nickel, uranium, coal, gold, platinum, palladium, natural gas, oil, hell, even kryptonite.
    It was discovered by the newly-formed RIO-BHP Pilbara Joint Venture Company, and they are keeping it under wraps while they quietly acquire the options on all the available stock in all the minor partner companies.
    That gets the Press and the general public interested – the old “how about me” syndrome”.

    All this wealth lies in a seam thirty feet thick and a mile wide across the entire northern end of the Pilbara, directly below several rocky outcrops with countless shallow, wind-blown caves.

    In a couple of these caves have been found some sharp, pointy rocks which geological analysis proves MUST have come from a (probable) sacred site in Tasmania (think you can score me a bagful, Swanny?)

    Ochre cave drawings CAN be interpreted (by a visiting British specialist – surely we can get/buy our own) to show a tale whereby The Great Waggyl (held by many Aboriginals in WA to be the bringer/causer of all evil) placed these ores in the ground there, as a temptation to future Man, and if they are ever mined, the earth will warm by one one hundredth of a degree thereby destroying all life as we know it.

    Based entirely on the highly scientific basis of the Precautionary Principle, it is therefore imperative – SCIENTIFICALLY imperative, that we do not mine these ores. Further, as an added precaution, we should heed the lesson offered and not mine ANY ore anywhere. After all, Aboriginals travelled all the way from Tasmania to reinforce this message with their sacred, sharp, pointy stones.

    You think we can whip this into something usable?

  139. meltemian says:

    Yeaaah – next best thing. Thanks.
    Not sure how MV feels about “Highway to Hell” though!

  140. memoryvault says:


    I am no doubt going to cop it from Thumper in the morning anyway, so what the hell.

    I didn’t actually mean anything sexist in my post about a girl owning Hogzilla – it’s just that it’s sort of like a bloke aspiring to own a Barbara Streisand dress.

    But then it occurred to me that I’ve known several blokes who aspired to owning a Barbara Streisand dress (Mrs MV and I have a very eclectic circle of friends) so maybe I should just pull my head in on that.

    Yes, there’s nothing like the sound of a big Harley – IF you’re sitting on it, and the noise is trailling off behind you. For innocent bystanders though, it can be a bit painful.

    If it isn’t, the bike needs tuning.

  141. memoryvault says:



    What can I say? They’re from the Land Down Under. (And Thumper’s into school uniforms, but I’ve mentioned that before).

  142. meltemian says:

    You wear shorts & a school cap then – now THAT I’d like to see.

  143. memoryvault says:

    Well, that’s it – beddy byes time.

    To sleep, perchance to dream, and perchance even further to waking up tomorrow.

    Who would have thought perchancing to wake up would have ever been a priority? I tell you, some aspects of this growing old leave a lot to be desired.

    Night all.

  144. memoryvault says:

    No Meltemian

    I wear the Headmaster’s suit.

  145. Pointman says:

    memoryvault says:
    August 20, 2010 at 11:42 pm

    We need to wind the Abos into the narrative. Nothing is more guaranteed to get the Greenies hot and bothered. How about secret approaches made to the tribal elders offering thinly disguised bribes for their blessing on the rape of mother Gaia?


  146. meltemian says:

    Night MV.
    You’re right – growing old is a bugger!
    See you in the morning (strange – it’s 5.30 p.m. here)

  147. Pointman says:

    Good-night, sweet prince; And flights of angels sing thee to thy rest.


  148. Locusts says:

    Night MV, sleep well!

  149. suffolkboy says:

    Pointman says:
    August 21, 2010 at 12:17 am. PLAN B; Abos
    Abos fine, but we still need non-human fauna, like Blackswans frogs and parrots. (In the UK some pretty butterfly found only on the site, or a rare toad, does the trick. If there isn’t one, you just import one overnight.)

    To get money in, you need to bid to write a 1000-page Environmental Impact on toads and butterflies, or even propose original research into the effects of thorium tailings thereon, and get government funding for it. Get old cut’n’paste to do the actual report.

  150. Pointman says:

    suffolkboy says:
    August 21, 2010 at 2:25 am

    Roping in old cut’n’paste on this one might present some local difficulties. NoIdea might be a wiser choice. His vocabulary is huge and I must confess, some of his words I’ve never even managed to find in my dictionary though it must be said, it’s but the humble pocket OED.

    Why can’t we just keep it vague like the Polar bears? You know the sort of thing. ‘Experts’ have said that this development could present significant environmental strains to certain Marsupial species in the area and if not properly studied and monitored could lead to their very extinction etc etc.


  151. Pointman says:

    BTW if we let NoIdea loose on the fauna aspect, we’ll have to keep a bloody good eye on him. We all know him at this stage. Left to his own devices, he’d be railing against the passing of the noble Marsupialis Thickus Diccus.


  152. suffolkboy says:

    Pointman says: August 21, 2010 at 2:47 am
    noble Marsupialis Thickus Diccus
    Any relation to Biggus Dickus?

  153. Edward. says:


    “With one day to go before the Election, Julia Gillard announces that she is prepared to make one of the most significant changes to our economy by putting a price on carbon, and that if she wins she will assume she has a mandate for it.”

    How sneaky and typical of Labor is that?

    Joolya is a wolf in the guise of a politician, she is poison man – just ask Kev.

    You can’t vote for this power mad loony.

  154. Ozboy says:

    Um, folks…

    Can I just make a point about language? British and U.S. posters can’t be expected to know this, but referring to indigenous Australians as abos is considered offensive in this country, a kind of “N-word” down here.

    You all know my policy here on race hate. It’s one of the few rules we have here on LibertyGibbert. so leave that one out, OK?

    Many thanks,


  155. suffolkboy says:

    Edward. says: August 21, 2010 at 4:57 am


    I’m no economist, but if there is no actual real commodity being traded, the “price” is meaningless: it is just a convention. If so, how can one PM “set” a price, presumably related to taxation? Surely this would lead to a crazy rush of phoney money?

  156. Dr. Dave says:


    I thought today (as it’s tomorrow there) is the day of your election. I rather expected far more political discourse. Your “Red” Gillard makes Obammy appear reasoned and objective by comparison.

    At first I thought it impossible that a majority of Australians could elect a flaming socialist as PM. Now, with a slightly better idea of how your elections work, I can see it as a distinct possibility. Doesn’t this frighten the spit out of you?

    In the US we are counting the days until Nov. 2 when an absolute Republican rout is anticipated. Every blog site is lit up with political discussion – even our climate blogs. I encounter very little of it here. Are ya’ll just that stoic or have you resigned yourselves to rule by the Green Socialists?

    G’day Dave,

    I have some sneaking suspicions that this won’t pan out according to the pontifications of commentators and pollsters. but I’ll wait until tomorrow to tell you all why – Oz

  157. Pointman says:

    Sorry Ozboy. Didn’t know. Just getting into character. What’s the accepted term, dare I ask?


  158. Pointman says:

    suffolkboy says:
    August 21, 2010 at 5:21 am

    The Oz Greens want a price of $27 per ton. It’s currently trading at 10c per ton on the CCX. The story’s in the price, as they say at the Stock Exchange …


  159. suffolkboy says:

    Sorry Ozboy. Thanks for the local cultural sensitivity heads-up which will be heeded.

  160. suffolkboy says:

    How is Earth Overshoot day going so far in Australia? Are we marking the event on this blog? Has anybody heard of it?

  161. Dr. Dave says:


    Just curious…how does one politely refer to your indigenous Australian population? Are they referred to as “indigenous Australians”? There’s a 7-syllable description that really flows off the tongue! Akin to our “retro” 7-syllable term “African-American” which the PC media has recently foisted on us after “Black” being a perfectly suitable term for decades. One can use technically correct racial identifiers as “Caucasian” or “Asian” with impunity, yet “Negro” is somehow politically incorrect. It is technically correct and not necessarily impolite, but politically incorrect.

    Our Native American population is officially referred to as “Native Americans” although “Indian” is often used (even by them). It only applies in the very broad sense. Mostly they are referred to by tribal designation (e.g. Navajo, Apache, Hopi, Cherokee, etc.). We really don’t have any specific racial epithet.


    Indigenous Australians, aborigines, kooris (murris in Queensland) are all OK

    As a matter of fact, among themselves, they often refer to their own tribes as “mobs”, as in “I’m from the Nambucca mob”, although this is more slang than anything – Oz

  162. Pointman says:

    So basically the choice is between an 8 syllable term, a 7 syllable or two 2 syllable terms that nobody’s heard of. You’re pulling our plonker again, aren’t you Oz?


    Alternatively, you could use the government’s own accepted term: “Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islanders”

    Doubtless Swanny, Memoryvault, Marcus et al will have plenty to add when they wake up today- Oz 😉

  163. Pointman says:

    I remember Mick Dundee talking about black fellas. Is that a good term or not?


    Blackfellas is OK too (in fact it’s a word the aborigines made up themselves), but you have to be careful about the context. It’s a term that only has genuine usage in the bush (as per Mick Dundee above), and for city people or foreigners to use it probably has racist overtones, so I’d avoid it if I were you.

    I know it can get infuriatingly complex (not to mention politically correct), but like anything else if you apply simple goodwill you won’t go too far wrong – Oz

  164. Pointman says:

    Agreed Oz. I found the same thing in America. In polite society negros were always to be referred to as ‘colored people’ in full, never ‘coloreds’ wheras when I worked with black people they hated the term ‘colored’ and preferred the term black. After a few beers of course, they all referred to each other as ni**ers and I was the ‘whitey’, no offense meant, none taken bro’. Sociolinguistis rears its ugly head again.


  165. Well you learn something everyday which reminds me of what some jolly wag said “The Scots make fine soldiers as long as they have white officers”.

  166. As I have scottish ancestry I’m allowed to make those type of jokes.

  167. fenbeagle says:

    This is how its done….

    A maverick mayor elected after promising to slash council spending, clear the streets of yobs and ditch politically correct services is the torchbearer for how towns should be run.

    On his first morning as Mayor of Doncaster in South Yorkshire, Peter Davies cut his salary from £73,000 to £30,000 then closed the council’s newspaper for “peddling politics on the rates”.

    Now three weeks into his job, Mr Davies is pressing ahead with plans he hopes will see the number of town councillors cut from 63 to just 21, saving taxpayers £800,000.

    Mr Davies said: “If 100 senators can run the United States of America, I can’t see how 63 councillors are needed to run Doncaster”.

    He has withdrawn Doncaster from the Local Government Association and the Local Government Information Unit, saving another £200,000. Mr Davies said, “They are just talking shops”.

    “Doncaster is in for some serious untwinning. We are twinned with probably nine other cities around the world and they are just for people to fly off and have a binge at the council’s expense”.

    The mayor’s chauffeur-driven car has also been axed by Mr Davies and the driver given another job. Mr Davies, born and bred in Doncaster, swept to power in the May election with 24,244 votes as a candidate for the English Democrats, a party that wants tight immigration curbs, an English Parliament and a law forcing every public building to fly the flag of St. George.

    He has promised to end council funding for Doncaster’s International Women’s Day, Black History Month and the Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgender History Month. He said, “Politicians have got completely out of touch with what people want. “We need to cut costs. I want to pass on some savings I make in reduced taxes and use the rest for things we really need, like improved children’s services”.

    Mr Davies has received messages from well wishers across the country and abroad as news of his no-nonsense approach spreads.

    Hordes of governors out-numbering the governed? I’m sure there’s a cartoon in there somewhere Fen – Oz 🙂

  168. Pointman says:

    Crown, somehow you always manage to come in on just the right off note.


  169. Dr. Dave says:


    I eagerly await your results tomorrow…and your analysis. Carbon taxation is simply creating a commodities market out thin air. Quite literally – thin air. AGW is such a specious theory – completely unprovable – that I’m astounded that intelligent people in ANY country could embrace it.

    I’ve lived through many eco-frauds; DDT, overpopulation, acid rain, ozone depletion, widespread depletion of resources, everything causing cancer from cell phones to high-voltage power lines. At first I bought into the AGW fraud, but something just didn’t smell right…so I started to do my own research. Today is seems like such an obvious political fraud I can’t believe ANYBODY believes it. But they do…

    I always find it enlightening to look at who the “believers” are. They fall into many groups. The most pitiful group are the true believers. They have so much of their personal belief system and self-identity invested in AGW that they simply can’t think rationally. We have nearly two generations of “climate scientists”, “climate researchers” (usually grant funded biologists) and “climate journalists” who utterly depend on this fraud for the very livelihood. Academia and vast government agencies have come to depend of AGW funding. It’s in their best interest to avert their gaze from the truth. Politicians are salivating over the potential for taxation and control so they support it even if they don’t personally believe it. Finally we have the big business winners. Corporations like GE and Seimans and big banks like Goldman Sacks. They don’t care what the truth is as long they make loads of money. The people are the big losers. This should be obvious to anyone.

    The USA elected an idiot President who so much as told us before the election he wanted to control energy (and thereby make energy costs skyrocket)…and we elected the bozo anyway! But he had the benefit of a “perfect storm” of an incompetent opponent and widespread media complicity. The situation in Australia is not so clear to me. Why would you repeat the folly of the USA?

    Many Americans held the image of “Mick Dundee” as the prototypical Australian for many years. Now days more and more Americans view Julian Assange as prototypical.

  170. Pointman says:

    Dr. Dave says:
    August 21, 2010 at 8:31 am

    Politicians don’t really believe in Climate change. This, a short time after Climategate, speaks a thousand words. Wait for Obama’s fractionally misjudged pause and watch the faces. Little things are the most revealing.

    Even he smiles. What was that thing Shakespeare said about villians smiling …


  171. Dr. Dave says:


    I’m surprised you were aware of that “moment in history”. He’s smiling at the Republican side of the aisle who are laughing at the idiocy and irony of his statement.

    In this same speech he announced that America invented the automobile! Why…the next thing you know we will have invented telegraphy, the electric light, commercial electricity, the telephone and the airplane! Oh wait…we actually DID invent that stuff…but I’m pretty sure Obama is unaware of it. According to modern Democrats US history started when Obama got elected.

    Obama is a shameless ideologue who is deeply in debt to the eco-Left for getting him elected. He will pursue their agenda even at great cost and detriment to the nation. In 2007 and 2008 the AGW fraud polled well and received a lot of media coverage. When reality struck in 2009 (particularly late 2009) public gullibility numbers dropped like a rock. It’s hard to worry about what the mean temperature of the planet will be after your grandchildren are dead when you’re currently unemployed and your retirement investments are worth half of what they were a couple years ago.

  172. Pointman says:

    Dr. Dave says:
    August 21, 2010 at 9:09 am


    My sense of the thing in America is that there were a lot of first time voters overdosed on Obama who are now going cold turkey. I know the Democrats will be basically annihilated in the coming election but is there anything being done on the GOP side to stop those kids just not voting again?


  173. Dr Dave the USA did not invent the automobile nor the electric light bulb the Brazilians will argue with you about manned flight as well. However I get the point.

  174. Dr. Dave says:


    You’re tight about the light bulb. Edison simply invented the first one with any practical utility. Of course America didn’t invent the automobile…not by a LONG shot. That’s what irritated me about Obama’s stupid comment. I’m pretty sure we can claim true manned flight…but not by much. Folks all over the world were damn close by the time of Kittyhawk. More telling, I think, is that Europeans took this innovation and ran with it while the American air industry didn’t really evolve as much until after WWI.

    You could also argue that such innovators as Sikorsky, Tesla and many others were first generation immigrants to the USA. All true! But back in those days we really were the land of opportunity. I wouldn’t dare get into a pissin’ contest today with any European country over who has the most burdensome regulations and restrictions…but hey…we’re rapidly catching up.

  175. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Good morning all,

    Interesting conversation overnight.

    Our culture does seem confusing to “foreigners” I’m sure. May I take a bit of your time to explain a couple of things? As with many minority groups (of any persuasion), criticism is often mistaken for racism/homophobia (stupid made-up expression – I’m not afraid of men – but that’s another story) / xenophobia and so on.

    The fact is, Aborigines were treated disgracefully under British Administration. Firstly, while Captain Cook in 1770 and later in 1788 the First Fleet of convicts and troopers under Governor Arthur Phillip certainly encountered aboriginal tribes, Whitehall declared that, while aborigines occupied certain territories, the place was essentially uninhabited, no Treaty need be signed, no invading war need be fought – we just turned up and moved in.

    This was probably because no villages existed, no houses or dwellings of any kind (not even the crudest mud hut or stone shelter), no sign of agriculture or animal husbandry. The British had encountered the last truly Stone Age hunter-gatherer nomadic tribes on the planet. Their wanderings (walkabout) followed the seasons and the food sources. They lived in caves or in a gunyah (a shelter of leaves or branches), they used stone axes, spears and bone implements. They wore no clothing (Tasmanians wore animal hide cloaks) – in short, the most primitive people yet encountered in the Empire.

    As white settlement progressed, aborigines were not citizens of this country, they were not counted in any census and, until a referendum in 1967 declared that they were Australians, their affairs were dictated by a white Protector of Aborigines who gave permission as to whom they could marry, where they could live, who administered their wages (when they were actually paid for work) and when and how they would be educated, usually in the service of white rural property owners.

    Until the High Court of Australia, in 1992, brought down a judgment in favour of a Torres Strait Islander named Eddie Mabo, declaring that aborigines had land rights over their tribal/ancestral country, these were a dispossessed people.

    In the short 222 year white history of this Nation, the white/black struggle for equality has been ongoing in one form or another. It wasn’t until the British Atomic bomb tests in Central Australia in the 1950’s that previously unknown tribes were discovered, their first encounters with whites.

    That doesn’t mean that there aren’t a lot of main-chancers among them. The behaviour of many leaves a lot to be desired. Any criticism of such anti-social behaviour is decried as “racist”.

    Speaking entirely for myself, I truly admire and respect their heritage and traditions, regret the devastation white settlement has caused, but I don’t see everything they say and do as beyond criticism. It isn’t racism. It is my opinion of badly behaved individuals whatever their race.

    From their perspective, I’m just another jumped-up white a***hole who deserves to be taken down a peg or two.

    I never use derogatory terms for aborigines, I defend their rights for equality in every respect, but I abhor the actions of some, and in this “free” nation, I feel I should be able to comment on such negative anti-social activities without being branded a racist or a bigot. I am neither.

  176. Dr. Dave says:


    We really don’t need to keep the kids from voting. Youth unemployment in the USA is at the highest level it’s ever been since such things have been measured. A lot of recent college graduates are growing weary of living in Mom’s basement. We screwed up in 1971 when we lowered our voting age from 21 to 18. At the time it made sense because we had military conscription starting at age 18 back then. The “old enough to kill but not for votin'” argument. Today our military is 100% volunteer.

    What bothered me most was what happened AFTER the voting age was lowered. Most states also lowered the legal drinking age to 18. You could do most things as an “adult” at age 18 but federal law still stipulated that you must be 21 to buy or own a handgun. So…you could join the Army (or be drafted) at age 18, spend 2 years stamping through the jungles of Vietnam with a fully automatic M-16, but still be considered too immature to buy a handgun when you got home.

    As the years went on they realized it might not be a good idea to let 18 year olds legally drink. By 1980 the federal government had coerced virtually every state into raising their drinking age to 21 because “18 year olds can’t be trusted with alcohol”. But they are STILL considered mature enough to vote!!! This boggles my mind. How can government say the 18-20 year old demographic is too immature to be trusted with handgun ownership or alcohol consumption but are somehow educated enough, worldly enough and mature enough to vote in national elections!? All the while 18, 19 and 20 year olds are bearing arms in our military on foreign soil. See any hypocrisy here?

  177. Blackswan the indigenous population of Australia exhibit many archaic human features not found in other populations there is a high likely hood they are a hybrid population of archaic human and homo sapiens. As we are a mix of homo neanderthalis and homo sapiens ourselves from europe.
    Now this does not mean they are not as human as the rest of us or just as smart, it’s just something I find fascinating and kind of cool if it is proved to be correct.
    The only populations of humanity who are not hybrids are those in sub saharan africa.

  178. Amanda says:

    Pointman: In the end it’s all the same thing: the forbidden word is a short form or diminutive as they like to say in the trade of the full word: but because somebody nastier than you once used the short form with a sneer (or worse), the short form is now offensive.

    I’m sure you and perhaps others know that ‘Yankee’ was once a term of derision, and you probably also know that ‘Oriental’ was taken in the past couple of decades to be an imperalist sort of term — until a few ‘Orientals’ in Britain and no doubt elsewhere decided that they preferred to be called Oriental than the generic ‘Asian’, and they also pointed out that to say ‘Oriental is a rug not a person’ is historically and factually inaccurate. Which is true.

  179. Amanda says:

    Speaking for myself, what *I* don’t like is when men refer to a woman as a ‘female’, as if she’s some sort of barnyard animal. Even my dog isn’t a ‘female’: she’s a ‘girl’.

  180. Amanda says:

    Not that this happens very often, I should add. Anyway I don’t go around looking for something to take offence at. Some people do!

  181. Amanda says:

    Crown, where did you find this exciting new information about RNA or whatever it was? I’m interested in that stuff, too. And by the way, it’s H. neanderthalensis, not what you’ve got.

  182. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Hi Dr Dave, Crown, Pointman,

    We’re off to the polling booth shortly to cast our votes in this mad election – it’s way too close to call a result. No pundit will give an opinion.

    This is one of the dirtiest, most negative campaigns I can remember.

    As you say Dave, how could anyone possibly vote for this Marxist/Socialist/Fabian Prime Minister?

    We live in interesting times, as they say.

  183. Amanda says:

    Crownarmourer: Neat, our latest posts clocked in at the exact same time.

  184. Dr. Dave says:


    Even my dogs are “girls”. I can get away with calling them knuckleheads…but not “dogs”. Once upon a time…long ago…I had dogs. They mostly lived outdoors. Then my girlfriend came to live with me and my Golden Retrievers have been Lords of the household ever since. A room in the house has the A/c left on for them during the day lest it become uncomfortable for the little dears outside on the lawn. In the winter…forget about it…they’re house dogs.


  185. Amanda says:

    Dr Dave: Agree with you totally on the age thing. One time in Canada there was a question of raising the drinking age from 19 and I myself as a young person (adult) weighed in; as I pointed out to the relevant Inquiry at the time, it’s ludicrous to say that one may marry and fight for one’s country but not raise a glass to it in a toast!

    I blame Liddy Dole for making America go all nannyish on the drinking age question. And I say that as a stalwart Republican.

  186. Amanda says:

    Hi Swan: Good luck to you!

  187. Amanda says:

    Dave: ‘house dogs’. But of course! What else?

    Anyway I’ve been called ‘knucklehead’ in my time — as a term of affection! Which is not the feeling that my music teacher had when he referred to us as ‘the cement-heads in the clarinet section’. But I didn’t like playing the clarinet: I wanted to keep playing the cello. Also, he couldn’t pronounce Dvorak correctly (I don’t know how to put in the relevant diacritic or whatever it’s called). I could. So who was the cement-head?

  188. Pointman says:

    Blackswan Tasmania says:
    August 21, 2010 at 10:05 am

    Swan, a post you’ve spent some time to inform us visitors to the B&G about things Australian and thank you. I would like to think, that I in their place in the 18thy, 19th or 20th Centuary would have informed more moral decisions but I suspect not.


  189. Amanda I was drinking in the pubs at age 16. Because where I come from it was considered a bloomin silly law and as long as you didn’t start a fight or trouble the landlord turned a blind eye as did the police.
    Oriental is the correct term and Europeans are Occidentals.
    Blackswan good luck on the voting choose the lesser evil.

  190. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    G’day Amanda,

    You’ve made some interesting observations – as always.

    In reference to derogatory terms, as is so often the case, it’s not so much what you say, it’s the way you say it.

    For instance, if Oz, MV, Marcus or I said to NoIdea “You’re a mad Pommy bastard” that is nothing to take offense at. For starters, we’d be handing him a beer and grinning broadly while we said it. “Mad” would simply mean he comes up with some zany stuff sometimes. “Pommy” denotes him as hailing from the UK – and “bastard” just means he’s a mate, one of us.

    On the other hand, if I said to Brewster “You’re a mad Pommy bastard” I’d mean it in every sense of every word…lol

  191. Amanda says:

    Blackswan: Well you’re absolutely right of course (and thank you very much for the gratifying compliment). But then you’re a sensible chap. So many people aren’t. Had a look at the ravings of someone called ‘bje’ lately? (Reality Returns et al say she is a troll known previously as ‘Judy8’. She’s a fanatic and I’ve no doubt that if she were Queen of Transylvania in 1400 she’d have us all ……

  192. Dr. Dave says:


    Many men are lorded over by women and dogs. We just don’t have the courage to admit it. My role is to provide for and please the woman, keep the dogs happy (and ridiculously spoiled) and to pay the bills. Any pleasure I derive from this process is entirely up to me. On the plus side this affords me with the privilege of being completely biased on political, social and scientific issues…and or course, I’m always right.


  193. Amanda says:

    Dave: LOL

    Sounds a perfect arrangement!

  194. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Dr. Dave says:
    August 21, 2010 at 11:34 am

    Geez Dave, I’m getting worried about you.

    “My role is to provide for and please the woman, keep the dogs happy (and ridiculously spoiled) and to pay the bills.”

    Your priorities are getting a bit skewed. It’s the Woman you need to keep happy and ridiculously spoiled and the Dogs will be pleased if you just feed ’em….lol

  195. Amanda says:

    Crown, I would trust you to be drinking in pubs at 16. As it was, I didn’t drink very much even as a university student (just the odd glass or wine or occasional beer), so when I went to a pub with Chris and we came out into the snow, I was more than happy to flop down into it and make a ‘snow angel’. I am considerably more sophisticated now, i.e. not a cheap drunk. You want a snow angel, it’s going to take a lot of Pinot Noir (Burgundy or good American stuff) or double that of $9 Castano (circumflex over the N). Which latter is what I’m drinking right now!

  196. Amanda says:

    just the odd glass OF wine. I wasn’t into glass, by itself.

  197. Dr. Dave says:


    I want to know how you cast your ballot. As odd as this may seem…this is something of a nailbiter for this American. The US election in November is exciting but we all know how it will turn out on one side. Republicans taking over the House is a virtual lock. Senate seats are still up in the air. It’s entirely possible that the “good guys” (a relative term) may win back the Senate as well. We have entrenched incumbents fighting the first uphill battle of their careers. It is glorious to watch. But we have to endure more than 2 months of politics before it’s all over.

    I’ve checked the news and it looks like Julia and Tony are in a dead heat. Oddly, neither were born in Australia. We used to be fussy about that in America, but apparently lo longer. Forgive me if I appear to be a gawker…it’s just that this is very interesting and will have “interesting” implications for the entire Western world.

  198. Amanda says:

    Dave: re your last sentence: Agreed, especially since we GOPers tend to see Australia and all who ride in her as hold-outs of common sense in a craven world….

  199. Dr. Dave says:


    Think about what you wrote. Do you have any idea how EXPENSIVE it is to keep a woman ridiculously spoiled? Think man! Happy for woman and ridiculously spoiled for dogs is a FAR more economical proposition.

    I may be American…but I ain’t stupid!


  200. Amanda says:

    Apropros of nothing: When I lived in England a handful of years back, I had a sticker saying GOP, with suitably patriotic colours, on the bumper sticker of my Mazda. (Almost nobody in England has a bumper sticker.) I reckon my neighbours, seeing the car in the driveway, must have wondered: ‘why has she got “gop” on her car? What does it mean? “Good old peanuts”?’

  201. Amanda says:

    Oh geez. The Castano is showing. I didn’t have a sticker on my sticker — but you know what I mean…

  202. Amanda says:

    I’ll be doing snow angels next!

  203. Amanda says:

    You tell him, Dave! Pizza was enough to make the dog feel ridiculously spoiled this evening. Though truth to tell, it kept me happy, too. So the moral of the story is….

  204. Amanda says:

    Speaking of the southern hemisphere, y’all should check out Daniel Hannan’s latest thread (‘The Interent is dragging Britain away from Europe and towards the Anglosphere’), in which he says:

    The Internet makes it as easy for my constituents to do business with a company in New Zealand as with a company in Belgium. Easier, indeed, because the Kiwi company shares our common law, accountancy practices, commercial traditions and language.

    Australians are, as Kipling might have put it, folk of our own blood and speech. We share a head of state; we watch the same TV; we visit each other regularly, often to see relatives. Both the candidates in the Australian election were born in Britain, for Heaven’s sake. How could we not be interested?

    As they say: Read the whole thing.

  205. Dr Dave the head of state of Australia was not born there either but for now they like the old biddy. Here is a little info on her.
    Elizabeth II (Elizabeth Alexandra Mary; born 21 April 1926) is the reigning queen of 16 independent sovereign states known as the Commonwealth realms: the United Kingdom, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Jamaica, Barbados, the Bahamas, Grenada, Papua New Guinea, the Solomon Islands, Tuvalu, Saint Lucia, Saint Vincent and the Grenadines, Belize, Antigua and Barbuda, and Saint Kitts and Nevis. In addition, as Head of the Commonwealth, she is the figurehead of the 54 member Commonwealth of Nations.

  206. Amanda says:

    Crown: What about Turks and Caicos Islands? The latter held a donkey race in her honour, in the 1960s, if I am not mistaken.

  207. After her death a number of those countries are likely to become republics.
    Coincidentally the true head of state of Ireland is still QE II, due to them screwing up on the abdication of her Uncle Edward VIII.

  208. Amanda says:

    And when she visited Tonga, they played a tape of ‘Mama Loves Mambo’ and asked if she would like to dance along.

    Just kidding.

  209. Amanda she probably was head of state at the time but no longer, notice she is head of state of Grenada Reagan screwed up on that one.

  210. Amanda says:

    I dunno Crown, you’re obviously better informed than I am. The queen looks rather like my great-aunt Eva and is the same age as my grandma. Fascinatin’, huh?

  211. It is interesting to note there have been a slew of really good controversial blogs lately on the DT with quite a few reaching a 1000 posts. Mostly due to the troll wars and one wonders whether some of those trolls are DT staff. There is a big effort to drive up traffic.

  212. Dr. Dave says:


    Anyone would be a fool to diminish the importance of the British empire. But I have to ask you…if any one of these sovereign colonies were under direct threat of foreign attack, who would you turn to? The international community…or the United States?

    The USA should NOT be the world’s “police force” yet that has been the role to which we have been relegated. If it were up to me we would be providing our allies with equipment, materiel and training and let them fight their own battles.

    Dave, you may be interested in this article I wrote a few weeks before you joined us – Oz

  213. Dr Dave Belize is under UK protection we send our troops there to train in Jungle warfare. However realistically it’s the USA (although currently the POTUS would side with the aggressor), as for being the worlds police well we used to do that job and it’s expensive. Your leaders wanted to take over the role after WW2 on account of us being flat broke I think people are realizing it’s a booby prize.

  214. ozboy if I remember Australia used to police it’s own corner of the Empire. Papua New Guinea was run by you guys if I remember correctly.

    Yep, up till 1975 PNG was run out of Brisbane. I know a lot of folks who worked up there in those days. Then we gave them independence. And look how that’s turned out – Oz

  215. Dr. Dave says:


    Damn! If I could buy you a drink this very minute I would! You’re absolutely right! Why the USA would take over such a “no win” role is beyond me. It is good that the USA came to the aid of our European brethren during WWI and WWII. It was the “right” thing to do. After that we should have shut up and butted out.

    Unfortunately this wasn’t the case. Following WWII we became the de facto protectors of all of western Europe. WTF? We spend over 40% of our military budget on what really amounts to as “foreign aid”. That’s right. Nearly 40% of the USA’s defense budget is spent protecting western Europe and Japan. How’s that for the “short stick”? To all other nations I say it’s time to “pony up”.

  216. memoryvault says:

    Hello All,

    Pointy, Thumper says thank you for the angels. She says she can use all the help she can get.

    To the rest of you:

    It is an absolutely beautiful day here, and until I came online I didn’t think anything could spoil it. But there you are. I come to my favourite bar and grill looking for my usually highly intelligent friends for a bit of thought-provoking chatter, and instead I find you all discussing our election and the implications of various outcomes.

    As if it matters????

    Dr Dave – you are “hanging out” for the results – let me give them to you. Politically there will be a slight reshuffling of which pigs have got their snouts in the trough. That’s about it. The actual “winners” will be our banks and corporations. As usual. The losers will be the Australian public. As usual.

    You wrote earlier about getting rid of your current left-wing toadie to big business Obama. You seem to forget he merely replaced your right wing toadie to big business, Bush.

    Blackswan’s all excited about getting rid of Gillard, our current left-wing toadie to corporate interests, and replacing her with Abbott, our right-wing toadie to corporate interests.

    Let me spell it out for you. The people getting elected are called “representatives”. The word has a specific meaning. Now, if you vote for somebody who “represents” Labor (Labour in the UK, Democrat in the USA), then, “Labor” is who/what will be represented in our House of Representatives.

    What did you expect? That YOU would be represented? Why? These people at no stage ever claimed they were going to represent YOU. They got elected on the promise that, if elected, they would support the LABOR Party and its platform. And then people spend the next however many years wandering around bitching that these people “don’t represent us”. Sheesh.

    Now go back and substitute whatever “party” you like for “Labor” in the above two paragraphs.

    So, who do these party political hacks represent? Well, let’s do the math. YOU gave one of them one vote, which, unless you’re a swinging voter in a marginal seat, is about as valuable as a “how to vote” card will be this time tomorrow.

    On the other hand, BHP, RIO, XTRATA and Woodside probably collectively coughed-up over a million bucks between them. Ditto double-time for our Big Four banks. Same again for the oil companies. And again for the Pharmaceutical companies.

    And where did this money go? Mostly into advertising to convince YOU the mug punter, that Brand A (Labor) will wash your laundry cleaner than Brand B (Liberal). By 6.00pm tonight you will have served your purpose and no longer be part of the process, whatever the outcome.

    On the other hand, all that money will have brought an awful lot of assurances, promises, guarantees, that YOU will now pay for, for the next three years. Again, regardless of the outcome.

    I could rant for many more column inches, but I’ll spare you. Suffice to say that until folks are prepared to vote for people who will represent THEM – IE, people not aligned with any political party, IE – INDEPENDENTS, then this sorry charade will just go on being played out ad nauseum.

    Or as an acquaintance once remarked a long time ago, “shuffling deck-chairs on the Titanic”.

  217. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Dr. Dave says:
    August 21, 2010 at 11:56 am

    “I want to know how you cast your ballot.”

    In your 2000 election (Bush/Gore) there was such a kerfuffle in Florida over whether the voter had punched a dent or a hole in their ballot cards. We said “WTF is THAT all about?”

    At the risk of sending you all to sleep again, I’ll try to explain our 21st century process, euphemistically described as Democracy.

    You turn up at a polling booth in your electorate and a bunch of Apparatchiks of the various Parties mill about shoving bits of paper at you on “How to Vote”. Personally, I would have thought it’s illegal to directly try to influence a vote at a Polling Place, but that’s another story.

    Inside, an official of the Electoral Commission presides over a Big Book (literally) and asks your name and address. You tell them. They take a pen and rule through your name then hand you two pieces of paper.

    NB: There is no requirement to establish your identity – no photo ID, nuffin. Not even dipping your finger in indelible ink as we see for Third World elections for the most illiterate of peasant peoples.

    You proceed to a cardboard booth, screened from the next so you can’t “cheat” and copy someone else’s vote, and a graphite pencil tied to a string is provided for you to write with.

    Today there were two papers, a small green one listing the four candidates for the House of Reps. According to our Preferential Voting System, you number your selection from 1 thru 4 in order of preference.

    The larger white paper is for the Senate and today listed 24 candidates in Tasmania. In larger more populous states there could be dozens and the paper could be as big as a tablecloth. (See Oz’s excellent summary in previous blog).

    The option is to vote with a single No. 1 above a heavy black line listing each Party’s Primary candidates only, or number your preferences sequentially from 1 thru 24 which includes every candidate and the also-rans from every party. This was my preferred option, so, using my own ballpoint pen (no room for the erasing of any pencil votes) I fully numbered my selection, taking infinite delight in marking Christine Milne, our sitting Green Senator, as stone motherless last, No. 24.

    Don’t forget Dave, I said 21st century, a piece of paper and a pencil and you get to decide (sort of) who runs your life for the next three years. T’riffic isn’t it?

  218. Dr. Dave says:

    HOLY CRAP!! MV is in a foul mood! What did I say? Perhaps I should shy away from such discourse. In my country political discourse is common and encouraged. Apparently this is not the case here. Geez…sorry…I’ll shut up. Didn’t mean to be curious…

  219. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    G’day MV,

    Glad you’re having a good day, or were.

    I agree with everything you said about the process but I still cherish my opportunity to register a vote for those I despise the most. I walked out of that polling booth into a bright sunny day, snow on the mountain ranges across the river, feeling I’d “told ’em”. Those bloody Greens are not flavour-of-the-month in my household.

    Will it make any difference to the outcome? Of course not, but I’m still glad I participated in the ludicrous process.

  220. memoryvault says:

    Dr Dave

    Hi – sorry to give a wrong impression – I’m not in a foul mood. Actually, these days, if I wake up at all it’s a bloody great day and can only get better.

    I just get tired of watching people, year after year, playing the political party game and thinking that they are actually accomplishing anything at all. They say one definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

    The whole political party thing IS just a game designed to give people the impression that they actually are a part of the political process, when, in fact, they are not. The heck of it is, it is relatively simple to start the process of change, it’s just that nobody can be bothered. Let me explain.

    Ozboy and Swan are in Tasmania, possibly even in the same electorate, or close enough as not to matter. Regardless of the outcome of today’s election, which will make stuff-all difference over the course of time, here’s what they do:

    Some time in the next week or so they make the effort to find some like-minded people. Then, together, they go and find someone they respect and trust, and talk them into running as an Independent in the next election, probably three years away.

    Then, as a group, they put together some campaigning material which, in essence, says, if elected I will represent YOU, not LIB/LAB/GREEN. Then they put aside just an hour or two each week, starting more or less now, and start door-knocking. Best time to do this is a day or two after the guvmint – whoever they are – has just done something unpopular.

    When they find someone half-way interested, they recruit them into the group. It’s actually not very hard when people are pissed off. It will start very small, and if the group numbers twenty by Xmas they will be doing well.

    But by the following Xmas they will be a couple of hundred, and by the following, a thousand. Everybody in the electorate will know somebody who is involved. By then, it’s almost family. It’s a no-brainer who they will vote for.

    The only “secrets”?
    1) Start now, not in two years and ten months when the next election is in the air.
    2) DON’T have any “policies”. The answer to “how would you vote on . . . . . ” is, “how do you think this electorate would want me to vote”? If the answer is “I don’t know”, then the reply – seriously – is “why don’t we have a barbie at your place this weekend and find out”?
    3) DON’T ask people for money – trust me, it will come when you need it.

    That’s it.
    Is it really that simple? Yes.
    Will it happen? No.

    I’m not mad Dave, I’m sad.

  221. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Dr. Dave says:
    August 21, 2010 at 1:29 pm


    Hey Dave,

    Steady old man, don’t get put off by a growly Memoryvault. Thumper will attest to him being a man of many passions, and I’ve never met the bloke…lol

    We had a difference of opinion here the other night, that’s how folks “discuss” politics hereabouts. I remember having “vigorous discourse” with my Father in my youth and he was somewhere to the Right of Genghis Khan…lol

    This country became a Nation with our own Constitution in 1901 – a Federation of hitherto British Colonies. That Constitution didn’t mention Party Politics or even the Office of Prime Minister – it referred to Executive Government. The idea was, as MV states, that each electorate would nominate their own Representative to assemble in our seat of Govt ( originally Melbourne and from 1927 in Canberra) and administer the affairs of the nation, each participant representing and advancing the interests of the community who sent him there (no “hers” originally).

    Today the system is just as MV describes it – a bloody shambles – a sham Democracy. Communities don’t decide who their Reps will be, Party Machines do. MV wouldn’t compromise his principles by participating – I turn up with my own ballpoint pen to register who I like least. Horses for courses.

    Hang in there Dave, you’ll work out the Aussie psyche soon enough – we’ll make an honourary Bloke of you yet.

  222. Dr. Dave says:


    I’m sorry…I really am. I didn’t mean to provoke – I only want to expand my understanding of a system which seems incomprehensible to me. You have to remember, I was born and raised in a country with a two party system. We get to pick the lesser of two evils. In the last election our electorate chose the evil of two lessors.

    I am fascinated by Australia. I admire Australia. The country has the very real potential to be what America was supposed to be. But you have have damn socialists that make ours look like pikers. How this could happen I don’t understand.

    However my comments are received, for every pound of mud I may toss at Australians, be assured I’m tossing 4 or 5 five pounds at Americans.. In the end, “I love you guys”. It pains me to think I have offended you.


  223. memoryvault says:


    Thanks – and, as the saying goes, while I disagree with your method of protest, I’ll defend to the death your right to it.

    So, when am I flying down to Tassie to help kick off the Blackswan/Ozboy Independence Movement? I reckon the Cygnet would make an ideal candidate.

  224. memoryvault says:

    Dr Dave

    There’s no reason why the system I outlined wouldn’t work just as well in Yankeeland as it is capable of working down here.

    In both places systems designed for maximum participation have been hijacked and turned into systems of minimum participation. However, the mechanisms of participation are still there, to be used.

    It is quite stunning the effect it has on ordinary folk when they suddenly find they are actually “participating” in the political process – NOT by attending meetings, having votes, and endlessly coughing up money, but by actually DOING stuff like knocking on doors and inviting people to bbqs to discuss what’s wrong with THEIR little corner of the world, and how THEY can change it.

    The one thing I would add for both places is to stay out of federal politics, and stick to state.

  225. memoryvault says:

    As an aside, yet another story just popped up on Auntie about this election being “the closest in living memory”.

    Anybody recall anything that ever happened in a dead memory?

    I wasn’t alive in 1961, but I believe all the other Aussies here were old enough to remember the closest Federal election in Australian history.

    As an aside to all the Aussies here (particularly if you like gardening), take a close look at the young blow-in who had the third spot on the Communist Party ticket in Tasmania

    And he’s working for Auntie still – Oz

  226. Dr. Dave says:


    Well…I’ve already gone off in a huff. You crude Aussies fail to recognize the delicate sensibilities of us Yanks. Hell, you’ve probably already f*cked up one of my chakras! I need a rub down ASAP!

    In truth we’re a little difficult to offend but we are sensitive to offending others (believe it or don’t). I’m just on a mission of discovery. I try to follow the prime directive.


  227. Blackswan Tasmania says:


    Funny you should say that about the Cygnet. She was saying just the other day she’d be voting first for any Independents – she doesn’t like Parties.

    However – and it’s a biggie – having spent years at the ANU, that hot-bed of Socialist a***holes, she still thinks it’s her personal responsibilty to save the planet from Co2 “pollution” and reducing our use of finite resources is a prudent course of action.

    Our son on the other hand, takes personal responsibility for nothing and to my knowledge has never registered to vote, citing all politicians as a “bunch of bludgers” and wanting nothing to do with them.

    As for me, 20 years ago I formed an active lobby group to fight unfair Legislation – you know the routine – interviews on ABC TV News, Mercury Newspaper articles etc, – hours spent poring over transcripts from Hansard, and discovered a hitherto unknown-to-me fact. The majority of Legislation is passed without any discussion or debate at all, along the lines of…. “The XYZ Act, clauses 10 to 20. The “ayes” have it – Passed”. I kid you not. Zero acknowledgment of what those Clauses contain or the ramifications for the community.

    Goes on to the House of Review – in our case, The Legislative Assembly. Members there begin to raise such questions and the Govt Leader in the Assembly proceeds to tell the most bald-face lies, giving assurances all around that this and that will be done, all complete rubbish, and the Law is passed.

    On discovering this I sought advice from a Federal Senator, in my then-naive manner saying this law should be vacated, rescinded, declared null and void and properly debated. I was laughed at……….and the rest is history. Actually, I did a whole bunch of other things but I was still laughed at, and it all came to nothing. I don’t get involved in Politics anymore.

    If I did, it would only be to see Tassie break away from the Commonwealth and declare her Independence. But that’s another story.

    Ozboy, with his young family has a different point of view altogether I’m sure.

    Anyhoo, this election out of the way, I’m sure we’ll all just lapse into the usual rhythm of our ordinary everyday lives and just try to figure out how to pay all these ridiculous taxes.

    Besides, you have much more important things to concern you MV, Oz & I would never impose upon your good nature.

  228. Blackswan Tasmania says:


    Well blow me down with a daffodil and feed me mushroom compost !!!!!!!!!!

    A Communist? Oh well, that explains the Green thumbs and fingers and arms and…….

    The quintessential watermelon. Leads the protest against the Tamar Pulp Mill, but a red-ragger since before I was born.

    Your bloomin’ lot! – Oz

  229. memoryvault says:

    Dr Dave

    I remember applying for a contract at a power station being commissioned by a Yank crew. The deal was they had emailed me a set of engineering plans, and then they were going to phone and I would have a chance to prove my mettle by explaining things pertaining to the plans.

    The moment came.
    The phone rang.
    A drawling American voice said:
    “H’yall. Mar narm is Jason but ever’body jus’ calls me Eagle One – yo can too”.

    I thought – sh^t – I’m applying for a job with a space station.

    After that my mind wasn’t really on the interview.

  230. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Actually Oz,

    While I was around in 1961 I certainly wasn’t old enough to vote – it had to be 21 in those days – and I was as blissfully unaware of Politics as any other teenager of the day.

    We were far more interested in the opposite sex….lol

    What’s changed for teens today? Not much.

  231. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Dr Dave,

    We Aussies don’t do “hissy fits” much. If we disagree with you we’re likely to just say “Yer a mug” and move on to more important subjects such as “What’s for dinner?” or “Wanna coldie?”

    Our Pommy mates don’t know what a “coldie” is. They drink their beer warm.

  232. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Did you get the job?

  233. memoryvault says:


    Nah – couldn’t see myself giving my all for a bloke who thought he was a spaceship, so I bugged out.

  234. memoryvault says:


    See, I was right about the Cygnet – they make the best representatives.
    As strong as her views may be on just about everything, her views on “party politics” will outweigh them all.
    Yes, she will spend her whole time biting her tongue, wanting to “educate” folks on “why they are wrong and should do . . . . . . .”, but at the end of the day she will represent the “consensus view”.
    That’s how they’ve been trained to think and act – it’s beautiful!!!

    But it won’t happen.
    As you say, by this time tomorrow most of OZ will have gone back to sleep.

    On the other hand by this time tomorrow whichever party loses will be holding thinktanks on “where, how and why” and how to reverse those outcomes, and whichever party wins will be holding thinktanks on how to hold and consolidate their position. These planning sessions will continue unabated for the next three years.

    Meanwhile, over at Corporate OZ, tomorrow there will be board meetings taking place right across the country on how to best capitalise on the result, whatever it may be.

    And the ordinary folk wonder why they always come off second-best and never end up represented.

  235. Dr Dave don’t be offended by the Aussies they are a blunt bunch and speak their minds however remember this is not done in spite they are a good people. They are just like people in the North of England and the one thing they despise is bull sh*tt*rs. Rather refreshing actually.
    So debate is rather vibrant and to the point and if they like you they have got your back, I’m biased I have family there. Don’t mistake the bluntness for lack of sophistication our cousins are a smart bunch. They worked out that the best day to take a sickie was a Friday when the surfs up.

  236. mlpinaus says:

    Blackswan Tasmania says:
    August 21, 2010 at 11:27 am
    A while back; been out voting….. What joy. Mostly a process of putting the Greens last, and then a few who one truly hates…… The local member is a Lib and essentialy useless. So the Skeptic par ty got a 1 and the libs a 2…..

    Pommy barstard is probably a term of endearment. Followed by a beer or 3. Barstard Pommy, a curse. Followed by a punch up….


  237. Dr Dave as for America spending it’s wealth on informal empire the three countries that benefited were Korea, Japan and Germany who shirked spending on defense while you were guarding them and could then spend it on building up there industry and as allies they got special trading rights.

  238. mlpinaus Pommy is a racist term I object unless you buy me beer.

  239. Blackswan Tasmania says:


    Friday for a sickie? Silly boy – Monday is best, better to recover from the weekend.

  240. Blackswan so it’s a three day work week paradise indeed.

  241. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    mlpinaus says:
    August 21, 2010 at 4:23 pm

    The Sceptics Party originated in Mount Gambier did it not?
    We had a Sceptic Senate candidate in Tas but when I looked at her profile on their website, all I got was the fact that she’s an actress who lives in Victoria (how does that work?) plus her bust and waist measurement. None of that is of interest to me so she ended up somewhere in the middle of our field of 24, ahead of Labor and the Greens.

  242. Blackswan…plus her bust and waist measurement. None of that is of interest to me
    Well it is to me as long as I don’t touch or I’m a dead man, nothing like a woman with a healthy chest. Then again I like the Italians they elected a porn star as an MP.

  243. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Hey everybody,

    hahahaha…. just rest your cursor on JD’s head or ice-pack hat – see what you come up with.

    Ozboy, you’re a rum’n. Veeeery funny.

  244. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Is that anything like sh**p pron?

  245. Blackswan lets not mention the welsh.

  246. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    My Grandaddy was Welsh – are you saying the Welsh are like the Kiwis? Now I know what a Rarebit is.

  247. memoryvault says:

    Swan, Blackie, fellow Aussies

    You do realise that if the Liberals win, Tony Abbott will be PM.
    And sooner or later, Peter Costello will end up Treasurer.

    And that will mean Australia is being run by Abbot and Costello.

    Is the world ready for that?

  248. mlpinaus says:

    Blackswan Tasmania says:
    August 21, 2010 at 4:49 pm
    Fraid so…. Southcott is a cock, so I was sending him a message that I was unhappy, but gave Andrew a second pref. I hope that the Skeptic wont lose his deposit, but he won’t get in; so my vote goes to the Libs. I would like voluntary voting, and first past the post as well.
    The size of the mammaries is a sort of Facebook qualification, to go with 1356 friends and a bald list of recording artists….. We actually live in villages….. People we know or are aquainted with. It’s more likely that something in the future like this site will generate us a representitive, more akin to a real democracy…..


  249. mlpinaus says:

    memoryvault says:
    August 21, 2010 at 5:08 pm
    No MV, Joolia will win by a nose…..


  250. memoryvault says:


    Nah – I’ve suddenly taken an interest – I WANT the Libs to win now.

    We’ll be the first country on earth to really tell it like it is – the place is being run by comedians.

  251. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    memoryvault says:
    August 21, 2010 at 5:08 pm

    Abbot and Costello?

    It’s just been run by the Three Stooges (KRudd, Gillard & Swan – no relation BTW)

    Stooges of the Socialist/Marx/Fabian Juggernaut.

  252. mlpinaus says:

    MV …….I just wish they would all go away…. Sincerely…Please

  253. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    OK Marcus,

    We’ll let up. It’s all Dr Dave’s fault. He asked what it was all about.

    We’d be inhospitable Aussies if we didn’t indulge his curiosity.

    I’m sure he’s worked out by now that we’re A Weird Mob.

  254. mlpinaus says:

    Blackswan Tasmania says:
    August 21, 2010 at 5:17 pm
    Stooges of the Socialist/Marx/Fabian Juggernaut.

    Exactly. The MSM never even hints at this here. Adelaide is a backwater, but its only Bolt and the like who even mention this. I am to the right of Ghengis Kahn, but this is silly…..

  255. memoryvault says:


    You think the Krud crowd were funny?

  256. This what will happen in Oz if the carbon tax is introduced…


  257. memoryvault says:


    You’re right – it was all Dave’s fault.

    That’s my story and I’m sticking to it.

  258. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Funny? Sure they were.

    Poking each other in the eye, smacking each other in the head, wrecking rooms and restaurants smashing furniture and throwing food, leaving astonished citizens in their wake, never paying a cent for Mo’s bright ideas and shimmying down fire-escapes to avoid responsibility for their actions.

    Sure they were funny – I’m really, really laughing. Really I am.

    I still say Question Time is funnier – Oz

  259. memoryvault says:


    You think THAT part was funny?

    Wait till we get the final bill. . . . . . .

  260. Blackswan Tasmania says:


    Mad Max if an ETS comes in? Waddaya mean?

    That’s just an ordinary day in the life around here…LOL

  261. Blackswan Tasmania says:


    It’s our grandkids who’ll be still paying the bills……

    Sheesh, don’t start me off again.

    Dr Dave is seeking solace elsewhere and poor Marcus has had enough……

  262. izen says:

    Its an odd world…

    I’m off-line a couple of days, and when I come back and try and catch up here I find the most cogent post is by the poster whose opinions I have the least regard for….

    So as it is/was election day in the land of the Ozboy bar and grill, MV has it about right.
    Voting is a ‘choice’ in the same way that a multiple choice test question is a choice when all the possible answers you have to choose from are wrong.

    The PRIMARY purpose of voting is to legitimise the ruling clique. Which faction/style/party is elected is largely irrelevant, the basic underlying processes of governance continue as required, and just the surface froth is altered according to the ideological whims of the group in power.
    Actually the power is always wielded by those that OWN it and the ‘magical’ act of voting is a means of giving the population a false sense of determining the outcome to validate the ‘right’ of the rulers to rule.

    Once upon a time Kings rules by divine right, or as the Chinese put it, they had the mandate of heaven.
    Now the population is persuaded that the government rule just because they have a mandate….

  263. Locusts says:

    Dr. Dave

    A quick question. There is someone in the current American administration with an Asian face, looks like a Singapore man, and has been responsible for the passing of some environmental bills. His name in Chinese, is, i think, Zhukangwen. I’m not sure about the middle part. Any idea who it might be?

  264. Blackswan no they won’t big sh*t is coming stock up on non perishables the system won’t last. A big war is coming so hunker down.

  265. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Hi Ozboy,

    Sure that’s a goodie – complete with a link to your Missus’ website – ozzygrrrl.

    Good one. Should be more of it.

    Naah the name’s a coincidence – not my missus. The real Mrs Oz may be doing a guest post some time soon though – Oz

  266. izen says:

    Back to science…

    The satellite-‘gate’ story turns out to be just that –
    a story.

    That NOAA-16 is producing bad data is not new information. Nor is the fact that all the satellites suffer from drift/position problems and sensor degradation.

    The idea that any of the raw data is fed, unchecked, into climate models or even surface temperature records is baloney. There is a whole raft of error checking and validation before any of the data is used for research purposes, and even then it is re-examined and modified as further information on the satellite performance is discovered.

    The UAH satellite record by Spencer and Christy does not use NOAA-16, but even with the better data from later satellites it has undergone multiple revisions.

    The attempt to paint all surface temperature data as not just suspect, but corrupted beyond any use is not just ignorant, but I suspect malicious. Because the various methods of measurement have inherent difficulties does not justify rejecting any and ALL information that can be derived from the data. The science and mathematics of deriving a signal from noise is well developed, climate studies are not the only field in which the original data is subject to noise and uncertainty. Reject all temperature data because of uncertainties and flaws and on the same principle most of what we know about biological ecologies, disease epidemiology and astronomical evolution would also have to be thrown out.

    The proposition that –
    ‘NOAA-16 produces bad data which is still being archived and is accessible on the web – therefore all surface temperature data from satellites is useless and any research it is based on is invalid’
    Is a spurious attempt to suppress reliable information by those that find the fact that there is a detectable, measured exceptional warming trend over the last decades contradicts their beliefs.

    The reality is that the problems with the NOAA data from the AMSU-A instrument were know long ago. A lot of work has gone into analysing the problem and developing work-arounds so that at least some of the data can be used. There has been extensive discussion within the satellite users about how to deal with this, and other problems. But none of this background is included in the ‘satellite data is all wrong’ story, its a smear attempt with NO context of what is really done by the scientists, engineers and researchers involved.

    Context is everything, and while I may be mocked occasionally for ‘just looking up stuff’ on google(tm) it turns out that the NOAA satellite had problems with its main temperature sensor from the very beginning, and as a result has NOT been used as a primary source of surface or tropospheric temperature data. The ‘story’ posted that implies there are serious problems with satellite data because the NOAA-16 data is sometimes bad ignores all this background, perhaps because those constructing the satellitegate story do not know, or want to know what the true situation is.

    For those that might like to see what is really done when data from satellites is suspect you might want to check this work, done shortly after the problems with NOAA-16 were detected in 2001 (note the date!)

    Click to access NOAA16_Misalignment.pdf

    If you want to see the scale of work and effort that goes into retrieving good data from satellites and making it available then it is worth reading the NOAA users guide.

    Section 6 is of particular relevance, and appears to be something those peddling the satellitegate story are either unaware of, or are intentionally ignoring.
    Ignorance or dishonesty – take your pick.

    G’day Izen,

    Hold that thought – we’ll be back to AGW proper as soon as the Aussie election dies down – Oz

  267. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    izen says:
    August 21, 2010 at 5:51 pm


    What’s this? YOU dipping your bare toes in the “murky waters” of Politics?


    Defending Catastrophic Anthropogenic Global Warming “is a ‘choice’ in the same way that a multiple choice test question is a choice when all the possible answers you have to choose from are wrong.”

    Couldn’t have said it better myself. Well done.

  268. memoryvault says:


    How genuinely good to hear from you.
    I actually wanted to pay you a compliment, but you weren’t around.

    The other day you posted about why windmills were a very good POLITICAL solution to a perceived problem (from a politician’s point of view), regardless of how useless they were in reality.

    That was a very sensible, thought-provoking post.

    How about a few more like that, instead of the usual post-normal science twaddle?

  269. izen says:

    Blackswan Tasmania says:
    August 21, 2010 at 6:03 pm
    “….Defending Catastrophic Anthropogenic Global Warming “is a ‘choice’ in the same way that a multiple choice test question is a choice when all the possible answers you have to choose from are wrong.”

    There is a key difference from politics.
    There is a scientific methodology that has a proven track record in giving accurate factual results that can determine the accuracy or otherwise of answers to basic questions about AGW theory.

  270. memoryvault says:


    And straight away you blew it.

    Izen, please take note of the blackboard.
    Today we are discussing crooked politicians in general, and sh*t for brains OZ politicians in particular.
    Right now NOBODY is interested in satellite data, corrupt or otherwise. That was yesterday (or was it the day before?).

    Get with the program Izen – we’ll all like you a lot better for it.

    Well – at least I won’t tug your pig-tails.

  271. Blackswan Tasmania says:


    But I might dip them in the ink wells.

    Ooops, you’re too young to remember those…lol

  272. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    “There is a scientific methodology that has a proven track record in giving accurate factual results that can determine the accuracy or otherwise of answers to basic questions about AGW theory.”

    Is that the methodology that fudges figures to fit the “Theory”?

  273. memoryvault says:


    No sir, I well remember inkwells.
    And dunking pig-tails.

    Got my very first cuts – in Grade One at St Kilda Primary School – for that very offence.

  274. meltemian says:

    Morning All. How’s election day going? I’m just off yo read all the comments – what with the 7 hour time difference I miss out on all the good stuff.

  275. meltemian says:

    TO not yo – need a second coffee!

  276. memoryvault says:

    “There is a scientific methodology that has a proven track record in giving accurate factual results that can determine the accuracy or otherwise of answers to basic questions about AGW theory.”

    Yeah – M4GW wrote a song about it – “Hide The Decline”.
    Or, as it’s described in a line in the actual computer code – “The fudge factor”.

    Otherwise known as fraud.

  277. memoryvault says:


    Hail and well met, fair lady.

    Okay – that’s the niceties over – now go and get yer bloody cup of coffee and hurry back.
    Absolutely nothing on the idiot box tonight except election crap, so it’s the Oz Bar and Grill for the evening’s entertainment.

  278. ozboy…Naah the name’s a coincidence – not my missus. The real Mrs Oz may be doing a guest post some time soon though – Oz
    Is that where we we get the real dirt on the real ozboy are you sure that’s wise?

    No, and no – Oz

  279. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Incidentally, something I found earlier today that poses a really interesting question.

    Paying price for botched koala advice

    “AN ENVIRONMENTAL expert has agreed to 16 months of koala community service after giving a developer advice that was so deficient a local council says it caused the deaths of 30 breeding females.

    The “Expert” was charged/fined over $280,000 for giving inaccurate advice about native Fauna to developers.

    What will be the ramifications for “Environmental Experts” advising Councils on preventing development of private property on the grounds of AGW and sea level rises? – that never happen.

    A precedent has been set here. What are the possibilities for Wind Turbines when they never live up to their “guaranteed” minimum output?

    Gee, I’m feeling better already.

  280. so he told the people Koalas eat meat?

  281. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Must have been the same drongo that said cattle eat sh**p’s bits.

  282. izen says:

    Blackswan Tasmania says:
    August 21, 2010 at 6:19 pm
    “Is that the methodology that fudges figures to fit the “Theory”?”

    No, its the methodology that has proven most effecftive in detecting and preventing personal belief or ideological dogma from allowing people to ignore or distort reality for their own ends.
    Like all human endevours there are instances of people trying to deny the facts that contradict their beliefs.
    But unlike most others it has a historical track record of eliminating such errors and ensuring genuine progress in human understanding.
    Its why we can communicate as we do with this technology, it is a system with inbuilt error-checking and self-correction.
    Mainly because while you can fool yourself and the voters, you can’t fool Nature.

  283. Blackswan Tasmania says:


    Current seats won;

    Liberal/Nationals 32
    Labor 19
    Other 4

  284. memoryvault says:

    Koalas don’t eat meat?

    Hey Thumper – I think I know now why all those koalas died back on the Maleny property.

    You know – the ones we were trying to feed with the kookaburras.

  285. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    It is not unheard of for local fishermen here to drop the odd penguin in their craypots.

  286. You guys need to learn some biology Koalas are natural carnivores and only eat backpackers.

  287. memoryvault says:


    I thought that was squirrels.

  288. memoryvault says:


    How do they tell which penguins are odd?

  289. Mrs MV says:

    MV the ones with the goofy smiles?

  290. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    You’re mistaken – koalas only pee on everybody.
    As for the habits of a wombat? He eats, roots, and leaves. Ooops, too many commas – but true all the same.

  291. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    The ones that are “odd” enough to go for baited fish-hooks.

  292. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Hi Mrs MV

    Good to see you at the Bar & GRill tonight.

  293. not many people know penguins are found in the outback as they eat anyone coming across them.

  294. izen says:

    Locusts says:
    August 21, 2010 at 5:52 pm
    “A quick question. There is someone in the current American administration with an Asian face, looks like a Singapore man, and has been responsible for the passing of some environmental bills. ”

    Is it possible you are thinking of Steve Chu, the Nobel prize-winning physicist and now United States Secretary of Energy?

  295. izen says:

    crownarmourer says:
    August 21, 2010 at 7:05 pm
    “not many people know penguins are found in the outback as they eat anyone coming across them.”

    Presumably these are penguins that got lost while flying to S America…


  296. memoryvault says:

    Izen 7.24pm

    Izen, now that was on topic, entertaining, funny, and in the general vein of where we all are tonight.

    See – you can do it.

    You can even be reasonably good at it.


  297. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Ah gee Brewster,

    Your pulling our legs again…….First it was Wind power, then it was unadulterated satellite data, then it was hockey sticks, then it was ozone holes….now it’s flying penguins.

    You’re such a tease.

  298. memoryvault says:

    Just following the live count on ABC – for our overseas friends –

    I’m no political analyst – but so far it’s shaping up as a slaughter.

    Looks like we get Abbot and Costello by a long shot.

    Feenbeagle, hope you’re sharpening those pencils – this will be too good to miss.

  299. memoryvault says:


    Sorry mate – my E button seems to have got stuck open there for a second.
    Usually only happens with my r’s.

  300. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Biggles…. er, Locusts,

    Our visitor Brewster has given you an answer;
    “Steve Chu, the Nobel prize-winning physicist”

    Now this Fizzycyst is keeping bad company in the Nobel stakes…..
    Gore, the randy fantasy movie maker,
    Pachauri, the railroad engineer and
    the IPCC, those Govt appointed hacks who behave like glove-puppets.

    Steve should be more choosy.

  301. izen says:

    crownarmourer says:
    August 21, 2010 at 7:05 pm
    “not many people know penguins are found in the outback as they eat anyone coming across them.”

    ~40,000 years ago you might have been right.
    Around that time there were giant, fast-running birds in the Australian outback.
    Think ‘velocoraptor’ with feathers….

    They disappeared just around the time that the first humans arrived in Australia, despite surviving several previous ice-ages. It is certainly possible that they ate the occasional early inhabitant, but it seems their fate was to be eaten more than to eat….

  302. NoIdea says:


    Welcome back, as you can see we have all been missing your input in various ways.
    I agree with your proposition that and I quote…

    “The idea that any of the raw data is fed, unchecked, into climate models or even surface temperature records is baloney. There is a whole raft of error checking and validation before any of the data is used for research purposes, and even then it is re-examined and modified as further information on the satellite performance is discovered.”

    There often seem to be modifications and adjustments made to the raw data, indeed many sites are dedicated to exposing these always favorable to AGW theory adjustments (Katmandu was a recent case, the site is available in one of the threads on Oz’s).
    The attempt to corrupt all surface temperature data is not just suspect, but continual, the adjusting favorably beyond all use is not just ignorant, but I suspect malicious, evil, vile and illegal.
    Regarding the inherent difficulties of gathering information from multiple data sources, these same “difficulties” will be used as excuses when the full extent of the hoax is revealed.
    While I am sure that you are far more knowledgeable than I in the methods used for the science and mathematics of deriving a signal from noise in climate related statistics, perhaps you could consider how (I am talking about ground weather stations now) a consistent and unrecognized (perhaps deliberately) unknown extra 5-10C INCREASE in temperature readings would affect things, especially if this error was only induced or arranged in the last 10 or 15 years.
    I am talking of course, of the potential for parallax error in thermometer readings, as I am sure all the engineers here will recognize, one of the first things you learn in engineering is how to measure things correctly by viewing things straight, or at 90 degrees. Any deviation from 90 degrees or straight and there will be a parallax error. To avoid parallax error, one should take measurements with one’s eye on a line directly perpendicular to the thermometer.
    Now let us suppose (hypothetically in the absence of data) that there was an employment policy whereby weather station staff where being hired in line with a directive that as well as hiring ethnically and sexually ethically, they should also pay particular attention to the height of the proposed employee, in the recognition that if they only employ tall folk they will be at risk of being seen as discriminating against shortness.
    We would then start to see an increase in temperatures read as the unknown parallax error kicks in.
    How would I go about finding the heights of weather station staff?
    I do hope that you are available a bit more today as I am sure I have a couple of other topics I would like your input on.
    I suggest the hoax is perpetuated first by dishonesty then by Ignorance or confusion.
    I had to add confusion as you will not fit into either ignorant or dishonest in my opinion.
    Or is that just my perceived naivety showing again?


  303. memoryvault says:

    No Idea

    You are encouraging Izen in his bad habits.

    Tonight is not a science night – Izen is doing very well as long as he sticks to Saturday – election night – general camaraderie around the fire.

    We can get back to discussing “science” (ho ho) tomorrow.

    We are on the verge of electing Abbott and Costello to the world political stage.
    Can you imagine their their first UN performance?

    “Hi, I’m Abbott, and this is Costello”.

  304. Blackswan Tasmania says:


    You’re right again………

    There are definitely some “fast-running birds in the Australian outback”.

    Blokes have been known to actually catch them sometimes.

  305. memoryvault says:


    You know, of course, it’s an established physiological fact that women shouldn’t run . . . .

  306. fenbeagle says:

    As a beach hut owner, on the Wash, with a magnificent view out to sea, that some !!!!”””**!!!!er has kindly ruined with large Industrial wind turbines, and with many more to follow. (My retreat, and escape from the view I have of large industrial Wind turbines at home)
    Would somebody mind explaining to me, why our treasured seals are being washed up, on the beaches, too?…..

  307. NoIdea says:


    Apologies all round; it’s just that as a subscriber to the “SOD THE LOT!” political persuasion, that finds the whole puppet show with its left, right paradigm of multiple choice candidates that will say whatever they think their audience wants to hear just to try and grasp the power, I find it all a bit silly.

    From wiki I found that …

    Plimer was cited by the leader of the Liberal party of Australia, Tony Abbot in dismissing the IPCC and its findings:

    “ I think that in response to the IPCC alarmist — in inverted commas — view, there’ve been quite a lot of other reputable scientific voices. Now not everyone agrees with Ian Plimer’s position, but he is a highly credible scientist and he has written what seems like a very well-argued book refuting most of the claims of the climate catastrophists. ”
    — Tony Abbott, The Sydney Morning Herald

    Will Abbott still be citing Ian Plimer if, as it seems he does get in?


  308. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Our Greens Leader Senator Bob Brown and his boyfriend will now be in a state of orgasmic bliss tonight – they’ve finally won a seat in the House of Reps, in a Melbourne suburban electorate of course.

    This means that they can now introduce their own Legislation as per….

    If they get a majority in the Senate as well, the two majors will be doing a lot of horse-trading – we’ll pass this for you if you pass that for us. Green Policy will dominate our Government for the next three years.

  309. Locusts says:


    Thanks, that would be it.

    Black Swan

    Drop the Biggles thing already!

  310. Pointman says:

    Hello All, looks like the election is going the way of the lesser of two evils. Did somebody mention Squirrels?


  311. Mrs MV says:


    It’s looking positive – on the eastern side. The WA results are just coming thru’. Although Swan WA ( excuse the pun), but it looks as if it might go to the Greens – sigh!

    We are both sitting here trawling thru the results. All political madness, but we still care.

    I thought Joolia would win, but maybe (keep fingers crossed) it is swinging away from her. We dare not turn on the tellie – it’s too much of a hype – apparently results 20 minutes away.

    I didn’t realise how much the rest of the world cared – thank you Dr Dave.

  312. izen says:

    @- Noidea –
    …”To avoid parallax error, one should take measurements with one’s eye on a line directly perpendicular to the thermometer.
    Now let us suppose (hypothetically in the absence of data) that there was an employment policy whereby weather station staff where being hired in line with a directive that as well as hiring ethnically and sexually ethically, they should also pay particular attention to the height of the proposed employee, in the recognition that if they only employ tall folk they will be at risk of being seen as discriminating against shortness.”

    As allways your idea of short emplyees misreading thermometers is wonderfully creative and surreal…
    Of course if there was a dwarf emplyment quota they would be UNDER-reading the temperature because of parrallax errors. Perhaps you could blame the risinng temp on the increasing height of the researchers…..

    But no; both these speculations break down in the face of one simple fact. (well two…)
    Most weather station thermometers are electronic with digital readouts these days.
    Where liquid in glass thermometers were/are used in weather station sites they are mounted HORIZONTALLY.

  313. Locusts says:

    I tried my best to influence the WA vote, but to no avail.

  314. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    fenbeagle says:
    August 21, 2010 at 8:12 pm

    Hi Fenbeagle,

    This is really, really bad. How horrible, to see those mutilated bodies which “experts” describe as “awful injuries which we believe are the probable cause of death”.

    Probable cause? Hooley dooley. Another expert opinion.

    Imagine this. If you have a propeller which is in a housing of some sort, not exposed as in a fishing boat, but enclosed in the body of a submarine for instance, what are the chances the seal will be pulled into the prop and fed through it, being unable to escape with a glancing blow or to be deflected in any way.

    A shark? Yeah, right.

    As for the wind turbines, do you mean off-shore ones? We do understand how you feel.
    I’m imagining the wind toys planted along “my” river bank. If that happened, Greens around here would end up looking like those seals.

  315. meltemian says:

    Fen 8:12
    Ocean Wind Turbines and Flying Seals??
    Re: Mad Max – I now see where you got the inspiration for your cartoons.
    By the way one of my cats is called Max just because he is Mad.

  316. Locusts says:

    Does this mean that we can move away from nuclear powered submarines to ocean current powered ones?

  317. Mrs MV says:

    Hi Pointman

    Squirells? We are now on to man eating koalas.

    But apparently the man eating fish (Joolia) might be flushed.

    Izen – go to bed!

  318. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Good Evening Mrs MV

    Best bit of election news…………

    That young 20 year old Liberal bloke from Queensland just pinched a seat from the sitting Labor member. Luv ‘im.

  319. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    No, it’s the man-eating fast running birds in the Outback.

  320. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Brewster said it Ma’am.

    Just ‘cos I dipped his braids in the ink well.

    ‘Velocoraptor’ he said, and they’re dangerous.

  321. Pointman says:

    Blackswan Tasmania says:
    August 21, 2010 at 8:59 pm

    Brilliant news. Isn’t he the one they nicknamed Dougie Hauser?


    ps. “man eating koalas” – Why is it they always come after the blokes …

  322. Mrs MV says:

    Blackswan Tasmania says:
    August 21, 2010 at 8:59 pm

    That’s good news – ( swing away from labour I mean) missed that bit of info whilst doing my last post. OMG the little twerp is a joke here – and is proudly erected 20 ft high in our next door neighbour’s front lawn.

    Pointman was talking about syllables this morning. I doubt if he could put three (not Pointman) together, but anything is better than Joolia!

    Who originally spelled her name that way? Thank you!

  323. memoryvault says:


    Take it all back.
    Looks like Labor might win.
    Is this what the results are showing?
    So what’s it based on?

    The following:

    The ABC online results, which were updating every three minutes, went on hold for nearly three quarters of an hour.

    In that time:
    Other MSM outlets all ran update articles with “results to date” bearing no semblance whatsoever to those online.
    These articles all re-stated the “cliff-hanger” story-line.
    The ABC posted an article claiming that there were “250,000 holidaymakers in the Northern Territory (NT), whose votes won’t be counted until next week”.

    Just to put our overseas friends in the picture:
    250,000 votes divided up amongst all the marginal seats is enough to swing the election any way required.
    “Holidaymakers” could come from anywhere, so their votes can be counted in “anywhere” (as required).

    I regularly live and work in the NT – it isn’t France, and its capital is not Paris. Tourism is no real biggie in the NT – even with our “meals on wheels” bicycle friends from Europe.

    The standing population of the NT is 224,000.
    It only has two major towns – Darwin – population 114,000, and Alice Springs – population 28,000.

    If anybody really believes there are 250,000 OZ tourists in the NT right now (or at any time) I have some shares in a really nice waterfront Opera House you might like to buy.

    In a really GOOD month – maybe 25,000 tourists, and half of them (or more) would be from overseas (hence not eligible to vote).

    But then, we don’t really teach geography anymore either.

  324. Pointman says:

    Hi MV,

    The last count we got courtesy of Swan was;

    Liberal/Nationals 32
    Labor 19
    Other 4

    If that holds up, then at least you’ve avoided a coalition government.


  325. Mrs MV says:


    Our indigenous brothers now refer to themselves as ‘bros’ – talking in the American vernacular – as they do now – not much different from what you said in the first place.

    But we are not allowed to talk about that!

  326. NoIdea says:


    I have just repeated the experiments with an actual thermometer (not a computer model or complex equations) and I can confirm that you are mistaken with your concept that shortness equals an UNDER-reading, as I move the thermometer higher above my head to increase the parallax error the reading INCREASES!
    It is only by looking down on the thermometer that I can obtain an UNDER-reading.

    In the face of this empirical data that shows you are 180 degrees out on this very basic optical phenomenon, do you perhaps wish to re-examine your position?

    The joy of digital thermometers, did you know that when you buy a new digital thermometer they invariably come with a “pretend” temperature display in the form of a sticker over the actual display?
    How many of those stickers are still being read as gospel by the little people with glasses they now employ?

    IF I wanted to skew the results of the temperature data, I am fairly sure I could arrange to be made a thermometer that reads what I tell it, especially easy with LED and other digital displays.
    I will have to try and research your claim of horizontal liquid thermometers as I have only ever encountered vertical liquid thermometers that obey the laws of gravity as well as thermal expansion.
    Do they really have horizontal liquid thermometers?
    How do they work?


  327. meltemian says:

    Nah…. I still like the “vertically-challenged climate scientist” theory better.

  328. Mrs MV says:

    Blackswan Tasmania says:
    August 21, 2010 at 9:04 pm

    Oh Dear. Not Brewster!!!

    Velocoraptor -OK Blackswan – please explain!

  329. memoryvault says:


    Just an update.

    Latest available figures – TOTAL tourists to the NT for 2009 = 341,000, of which over 60% were from overseas. And that’s for the whole year.

    But today – of all days – we have 250,000 “holidaymakers” (tourists) just from other parts of OZ up there. And unlike every other postal and absentee vote in the entire nation which were all counted last week more or less as they were made, these won’t be counted until “next week”.

    Go figure.

    Is it too late to have a bet on the outcome?

  330. Mrs MV says:

    Oh well

    It looks as if she won after all! Sigh! I did hope for a while!

  331. NoIdea says:


    I think we may be onto something here, however we do have to tread carefully as I neither a Tallist or Shortist, and I have absolutely no problems with the optically impaired.
    If we can detect the magnitude of errors then I am sure the data can be fixed or adjusted, here we must be attentive to employ those who understand up from down.
    Izen has demonstrated the true believers (in AGW) problems they have with both up and down and hot and cold.
    Can we ever ease his confusion?


  332. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Mrs MV says:
    August 21, 2010 at 9:39 pm

    “Velocoraptor -OK Blackswan – please explain!”

    See Brewster’s post as follows;

    izen says:
    August 21, 2010 at 7:50 pm

    crownarmourer says:
    August 21, 2010 at 7:05 pm
    “not many people know penguins are found in the outback as they eat anyone coming across them.”

    ~40,000 years ago you might have been right.
    Around that time there were giant, fast-running birds in the Australian outback.
    Think ‘velocoraptor’ with feathers….

    I simply suggested we had a lot of fast-running birds in the Outback and the Blokes sometimes caught them.

  333. Mrs MV says:


    My apologies for not reading that post properly.

    If you ever get an apology from MV think of yourself as endangered species. LOL

  334. memoryvault says:


    I have been tied up dissecting voting trends and results, and more importantly, shit happening behind the scenes. So I have no idea what Thumper is on about.

    However, I apologise – apparently now you are endangered.

  335. Blackswan Tasmania says:


    Just had an excited phone call from the Cygnet. She’s thrilled that her Independent choice in the seat of Denison (urban Hobart, a hitherto Labor stronghold), looks like getting up on Preferences, as the second-runner Lib is giving his Prefs to the Ind.

    Her first election since Canberra had her so het-up. She said the ACT was so boring – Labor, Labor, Labor. She said down here, wandering around Sandy Bay and Salamanca Market there were so many different candidates and people to chat to and exchange points of view with.

    She also said a girl she went to the ANU with was standing as a Green in Swan WA. Told you it was a hotbed of looney tunes.

    I told her you suggested she run as an Independent and she said, Funny that, she was thinking of ringing the Candidate’s office and offering to volunteer. We’ll make a polly of her yet.

    Oh no, I think I’ll go and quietly open a vein somewhere…..LOL

  336. memoryvault says:


    Now that you are an endangered species, can I apply for a government grant to investigate ways to protect and preserve you?

    I already have a fair handle on your natural habitat, and with sufficient guvmint funds should be able to recreate that habitat all around OZ, so you are safe wherever you go.

    However, I will need to know what you need stocking in the bar fridge.

  337. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    The MV Family,

    I’m screwed – I don’t what either of you mean. Time for a nightcap I think.

  338. memoryvault says:


    I’m disappointed.

    Here Thumper and I have been abstaining – because of the gravity of the day (and cos the vet banned me from excitement) – and you’ve been off getting screwed.


  339. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    ah, that’s better.

    Am I an endangered swan? I missed that bit.
    A phone call with an elated Cygnet can be so exhausting – all that enthusiasm and energy.

    Mrs Mv
    Is Wyatt Roy a twerp? I reckon any 20 year old who is interested and committed to something outside his Levis is worth encouraging.

  340. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    I’ll have to stop using American slang. Hang on, if I said “buggered”, I’d still be in trouble.

    Actually, I recently bought a new keyboard and so far the letters E,R,T,A,S,D,H have all worn off. As I’m a two-finger hunt’n’peck typist, this is presenting quite a challenge.

  341. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Pointman says:
    August 21, 2010 at 9:17 pm

    Those figures were reeeealy early in the night.

    At the moment it’s 69 Lab, 70 Lib and preferences haven’t all been distributed, looking like hung Parliament.

  342. Pointman says:

    Swan, looks like you’re heading the same way as us, government by the minority parties.


  343. Mrs MV says:

    Blackswan Tasmania says:
    August 21, 2010 at 10:20 pm

    Is Wyatt Roy a twerp? I reckon any 20 year old who is interested and committed to something outside his Levis is worth encouraging.

    Yeah Blackswan, I agree. But both, his first name and his last, can be inter-changed ie is it Wyatt Roy or Roy Wyatt.

    We live on a very, very conservative island. And 40% are retirees. A big message to Julia. We would prefer a 20 year old to Julia.

    Yeah our son looked great in levis at 20 – educated enough to go into parliament – no
    I don’t think so. And he is 25!

  344. izen says:

    “I will have to try and research your claim of horizontal liquid thermometers as I have only ever encountered vertical liquid thermometers that obey the laws of gravity as well as thermal expansion.
    Do they really have horizontal liquid thermometers?
    How do they work?”

    A good thermometer – liquid in glass type – will work in any orientation.
    Page 26 of the following –

  345. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Mrs MV

    I meant outside his Levis as opposed the what’s INside his jeans. Or have I just got an uncommonly randy 22 year old?

  346. Pointman says:

    As anyone who’s had their ‘core’ temperature taken can attest to, a good thermometer “will work in any orientation” or place …


  347. fenbeagle says:

    …Well, as the only thing that has changed in the Wash, is the building of offshore wind turbines. I think myself, this could well be the cause (even if it is only circumstantial evidence) This poster here, that lives in the area, could I think be correct, in some way…

    Is it a coincidence that all these locations are where wind farms are being placed? Huge vessels are used to place the foundations (pile driven?) and they are positioned with satellite systems. The vessel requires huge propellers to place and keep it in position and they use ducted props. In Norfolk they have had problems with large amounts of seaweed getting into the props and have, it is said, removed the protective mesh grilles from the prop tunnels as a result. My theory is that as the plie driving operations could stun/kill fish it is very likely that seals would come to the feast and get sucked into the props which would act like some kind of Achimedes screw, pulling the seals through the duct so as to inflich the “spiral ” wounds we have seen. A great deal of secrecy surrounds the whole operation, all the more since early this year when the seals began to show up and it is clear that no thought has been given to the effect on the seal population. What a surprise!

    …….Other theories of my own, would be a passing wind powered submarine.

    A flock of razor billed killer ducks, flying in a highly coordinated formation.

    Polar bears being sucked up by thermals, caused by global warming, and dropped spiralling down onto unsuspecting Norfolk seals.

  348. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Pointman says:
    August 21, 2010 at 10:49 pm

    Hi Pointy,

    It’s most heartening to see how many Independent Candidates have either won seats or given the incumbents a shake-up.

    I listened to an interview with one who said that the 2 party preferred model was undemocratic and contrary to the spirit of our Constitution. He’s right. It’s the core of what had MV so pissed off with the 2 party system. WE should be selecting our candidates, not Party Apparatchiks. They should be representing and advancing the interests of their electorates, not brow-beaten into toeing the party-line, gagged into silence and flogged by a Party Whip (of all things) into submission.

    How can it be moral, let alone legal, that a representative of a community can be forced to vote in a certain way, determined by others.

    And the System allows….wait for it…. a Conscience Vote on a very few issues. What happens to their morals or values or integrity on all the other issues?

    Now, I’ll just climb off that soap-box, I’m getting dizzy.

  349. memoryvault says:


    Don’t know Wyatt Roy (or Roy Wyatt) from a bar of soap. But there’s a massive billboard pic of him in the next neighbour’s front yard ( I think maybe they vote conservative).

    Judging from his pic I don’t think he is “commonly” or “uncommonly” passionate about anything. Except perhaps for having his pic on a giant billboard in the next door neighbour’s front yard.

    He will do well in the world of OZ politics.

    As for your twenty two year old – he thinks with his dick.
    That’s actually pretty normal – be grateful.

    Think of the alternatives.

  350. NoIdea says:

    Blackswan, your mention earlier of pommes only liking warm beer

    “Our Pommy mates don’t know what a “coldie” is. They drink their beer warm.”

    (Urgh BTW!) and MVs mention of tourists bought to mind another old python sketch that just needed a couple of minor adjustments or tweaks and twists…

    The cast:
    Michael Mann
    Eric Izen
    Carbon Captured

    Tourist: Good morning
    Secretary: Oh good morning, Do you want to come upstairs?
    Tourist: What?
    Secretary: Do you want to come upstairs? Or have you come to arrange a holiday?
    Tourist: Er…….to arrange a holiday
    Secretary: Oh sorry
    Tourist: What’s all this about going upstairs?
    Secretary: Oh, nothing, nothing. Now where were you thinking of going?
    Tourist: Australia!
    Secretary: Ah one of our adventure holidays
    Tourist: Yes
    Secretary: Well you’d better speaker to Mr Bounder about that. (Calls out to Mr Bounder) Mr Bounder, this gentleman is interested in the Australia Overland
    (walks over to Mr Bounder’s desk)
    Bounder: Ah good morning. I’m Bounder of Adventure
    Tourist: My name is Smoke-too-much-Izent’it
    Bounder: Well you’d better cut down a little then isn’t it…
    Tourist: What?
    Bounder: You’d better cut down a little then
    Tourist: Oh I see! Cut down a little then…..
    Bounder: Yes…I expect you get people making jokes about your name all the time?
    Tourist: No, no actually it never struck me before. Smoke…to…much….(laughs) izen…tit…(-grins-)

    Bounder: Anyway you’re interested in one of our adventure holidays?
    Tourist: Yes I saw your advert in the bolour supplement
    Bounder: The what?
    Tourist: The bolour supplement
    Bounder: The colour supplement?
    Tourist: Yes I’m sorry I can’t say the letter ‘B’
    Bounder: C?
    Tourist: Yes that’s right. It’s all due to a trauma I suffered when I was a spoolboy. I was attacked by a bat
    Bounder: A cat?
    Tourist: No a bat
    Bounder: Can you say the letter ‘K’
    Tourist: Oh yes, Khaki, king, kettle, Kuwait, Keble Bollege Oxford
    Bounder: Why don’t you say the letter ‘K’ instead of the letter ‘C’
    Tourist: what you mean…..spell bolour with a K
    Bounder: Yes
    Tourist: Kolour. Oh that’s very good, I never thought of that what a silly bunt
    Bounder: Anyway about the holiday
    Tourist: Well I saw your adverts in the paper and I’ve been on package tours several times you see, and I decided that this was for me
    Bounder: Ah good
    Tourist: Yes I quite agree I mean what’s the point of being treated like sheep. What’s the point of going abroad if you’re just another tourist carted around in buses surrounded by sweaty mindless oafs from Kettering and Coventry in their cloth caps and their cardigans and their transistor radios and their Daily Telegraphs, complaining about the tea – “Oh they don’t make it properly here, do they, not like at home” – and stopping at Tasmanian bodegas selling fish and chips and Watney’s Red Barrel and calamares and two veg and sitting in their cotton frocks squirting Timothy White’s suncream all over their puffy raw swollen purulent flesh ‘cos they “overdid it on the first day.”
    Bounder: (agreeing patiently) Yes absolutely, yes I quite agree…
    Tourist: And being herded into endless Hotel Wallabee and koala klubs and Continentales with their modern international luxury roomettes and draught Red Barrel and swimming pools full of fat German businessmen pretending they’re acrobats forming pyramids and frightening the children and barging into queues and if you’re not at your table spot on seven you miss the bowl of Campbell’s Cream of Mushroom soup, the first item on the menu of International Cuisine, and every Thursday night the hotel has a bloody cabaret in the bar, featuring a tiny emaciated Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander with nine-inch hips and some bloated fat tart with her hair brylcreemed down and a big arse presenting didgeridoos for Foreigners.
    Bounder: (beggining to get fed up) Yes, yes now……
    Tourist: And then some adenoidal typists from Birmingham with flabby white legs and diarrhoea trying to pick up hairy bandy-legged Ausy waiters called Bruce and once a week there’s an excursion to the local Aboriginal Remains to buy cherryade and melted ice cream and bleeding Watney’s Red Barrel and one evening you visit the so called typical restaurant with local colour and atmosphere and you sit next to a party from Rhyl who keep singing “We come from a land down under” and complaining about the food – “It’s so greasy isn’t it?” – and you get cornered by some drunken greengrocer from Luton with an Instamatic camera and Dr. Scholl sandals and last Tuesday’s Daily Telegraph and he drones on and on about how Mr. Abbot should be running this country and how many languages Enoch Powell can speak and then he throws up over the Cuba Libres.
    Bounder: Will you be quiet please
    Tourist: And sending tinted postcards of places they don’t realise they haven’t even visited to “All at number 22, weather wonderful, our room is marked with an ‘X’.
    Bounder: Shut up
    Tourist: Food very greasy but we’ve found a charming little local place hidden away in the back streets
    Bounder: Shut up!
    Tourist: where they serve Watney’s Red Barrel and cheese and onion…….
    Bounder: Shut up your bloody gob….
    Tourist: crisps and the accordionist plays ‘Maybe it’s because I’m a Londoner’.” And spending four days on the tarmac at Luton airport on a five-day package tour with nothing to eat but dried BEA-type sandwiches and you can’t even get a drink of Watney’s Red Barrel because you’re still in England and the bloody bar closes every time you’re thirsty and there’s nowhere to sleep and the kids are crying and vomiting and breaking the plastic ash-trays and they keep telling you it’ll only be another hour although your plane is still in Iceland and just a little volcanic dust and has to take some Swedes to Yugoslavia before it can load you up at 3 a.m. in the bloody morning and you sit on the tarmac till six because of “unforeseen difficulties”, i.e. the permanent strike of Air Traffic Control in Paris – and nobody can go to the lavatory until you take off at 8, and when you get to Sydney airport everybody’s swallowing “enterovioform” and queuing for the toilets and queuing for the armed customs officers, and queuing for the bloody bus that isn’t there to take you to the hotel that hasn’t yet been finished. And when you finally get to the half-built Aboriginal ruin called the Hotel del Dundee by paying half your holiday money to a licensed bandit in a taxi you find there’s no water in the pool, there’s no water in the taps, there’s no water in the bog and there’s only a bleeding lizard in the bidet. And half the rooms are double booked and you can’t sleep anyway because of the permanent twenty-four-hour drilling of the foundations of the hotel next door – and you’re plagued by appalling apprentice chemists from Ealing pretending to be hippies, and middle-class stockbrokers’ wives busily buying identical holiday villas in suburban development plots just like Esher, in case the Labour government gets in again, and fat American matrons with sloppy-buttocks and Hawaiian-patterned ski pants looking for any vertical male who can keep it up long enough when they finally let it all flop out. And the Australian Tourist Board promises you that the raging cholera epidemic is merely a case of mild Oz tummy, like the previous outbreak of Oz tummy in 1860 which killed half London and decimated Europe – and meanwhile the bloody police are busy arresting sixteen-year-olds for kissing in the streets and shooting anyone under nineteen who doesn’t like Joolya. And then on the last day in the airport lounge everyone’s comparing sunburns, drinking Nasty Spumante, buying cartons of duty free “cigarillos” and using up their last dollars on horrid dolls in Australian National costume and awful straw Kangeroos and crocfight posters with your name on “Old biggun, El jaws and Brian Pules of Norwich” and 3-D pictures of the Pope and Kennedy and Rudd, and everybody’s talking about coming again next year and you swear you never will although there you are tumbling bleary-eyed out of a tourist-tight antique Tasmanian airplane…

    Thank you for the link Izen, I have found some information which does negate my they are employing little people theory, and I quote
    “there are over 11,000 volunteer cooperative observers”
    It seems they do not employ any one to do these readings, and of course that means there are no employee records to try and gain access to, how very sneaky and cheap (and convenient!)
    I have not got to the bit about horizontal thermometers yet; if these horizontal gauges are mounted on a platform too high for the little green volunteers to get properly above, then the parallax error will still apply.
    Will I get to thermometer placement data before I find more evidence of cheapness?


  351. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    fenbeagle says:
    August 21, 2010 at 11:06 pm

    I was thinking of enclosed submarine screws and know nothing of the ships “planting” the turbines. That sounds extremely likely doesn’t it?

    You must be a pretty cranky beagle pup right now.

  352. memoryvault says:


    You ask “How can it be moral, let alone legal, that a representative of a community can be forced to vote in a certain way, determined by others.”

    The truth is, Blackswan, it is neither moral nor legal. There is a section of the constitution which specifically makes it a criminal offense to “force or coerce” an elected representative to vote in any way other that in accordance with the will of their electorate.

    I am way too pissed now, but if you want, I’ll try and find the relevant section for you tomorrow.

    The reality is, every time a political party has a meeting and instructs it s members on how to vote on a subject (the party line) a criminal offence is committed.

    The stumbling block is, who do you complain to?

  353. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    NoIdea says:
    August 21, 2010 at 11:24 pm

    You’ve done it again!!

    Now I’m trying to get spluttered Wild Turkey off my monitor and keyboard – aha! that’s where my keyboard letters went to. NoIdea keeps sending me into gales of laughter and these letters are not grog-proof.

    A great job – thanks, a fitting conclusion to a fun day.

  354. memoryvault says:

    Oh well, time to go to bed.

    In an election that this morning required a mere five seat swing to change guvmint, we’ve seen a fourteen seat swing and appear to have a hung parliament. The Kool-Aid works even better than I thought.

    Who or what forms guvmint in OZ now depends entirely on the whim of 250,000 non-existent “holidaymakers” in the NT, whose votes will not even be counted until next week.

    Let the horse-trading begin.

    Not that I care either way – although it would have been fun having Abbot and Costello running things – the comedy value is priceless.

    Night all

  355. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    memoryvault says:
    August 21, 2010 at 11:34 pm

    I have a copy of the Constitution – I must read it again.

    Trust me MV, I absolutely know why you despise the system and I agree. We just have different ways of dealing with it. I luuuuv putting those I despise most at the bottom of the ticket. To whom do we complain? Right now – each other.

    I’ve had this conversation with others and most agree with us. The Party People always say that if a Party pays for the promotion and publicity for a Candidate, then they should show their loyalty, accept Party discipline and vote according to Party edicts.

    A Party Machine of vested interests Buying Votes? How is that not illegal?

    We certainly do need electoral reform and Parliamentary reform.

  356. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Look at that – midnight already.

    I’m off too. G’night folks.

  357. Locusts says:


    Do you use pissed in the British sense or the American sense?

  358. meltemian says:

    Night MV & Swan.
    Oh and Mrs Thumper as well of course.

  359. NoIdea says:


    When you say “the British sense” which one would you mean?

    For instance…

    The biker pi$$ed himself laughing as he watched his mate that he had just pi$$ed all over on his slower bike pull up. His mate looked pi$$ed off, “you only beat me because I got caught in that rain, it pi$$ed it down” he said. “Never mind that lets go down the pub and get pi$$ed”…

    Those are just a few off the top of my head, which is the most “British”?


  360. Locusts says:


    Er. No 4?

  361. meltemian says:

    That’s funny – my money was on 3 or 5.

  362. Amanda says:

    Blackswan: Now I know what a Rarebit is.

    Well, maybe you do. Maybe you already know that the original term was ‘Welsh Rabbit’ — precisely because it wasn’t a rabbit, it was a cheesey-beer-mustard sauce on toast — that was the joke, see? No, well, since the 18th century, a lot of other people didn’t get the joke either, so ‘rabbit’ was corrupted into ‘rarebit’, which refers to precisely nothing. Some still argue that the proper term, which we ought to revert to, is ‘Welsh rabbit’. Arguing this is a fun hobby for people with a lot of time to kill.

  363. NoIdea says:


    Thank you yet again for an invaluable link in the fight against AGW!
    The document at

    Click to access coophandbook2.pdf

    Seems to have some quite damning information and instructions, much of it contradictory.

    For example from Page 26
    “The current temperature is the temperature at the time the thermometer or MMTS is read. This is read from the maximum thermometer while in a vertical position after it has been whirled.”
    Then from page 30
    “CAUTION! Stand as far from the thermometers as possible to prevent body heat from changing the readings. This is particularly important in cold weather. Do not touch the bulbs of the thermometers”

    So it seems you must whirl them, without getting too close or touching them!

    There is also from page 27
    “It should be at least 100 feet from any paved or concrete surface.”
    Followed by the statement on page 28
    “All shelters should be mounted securely enough into the earth or a concrete slab to eliminate vibrations.”

    So it seems it must be mounted on a concrete slab that it has to be at least 100 feet from!

    On page 30 we start getting to the really damning evidence, we find
    “Thermometers are read and recorded to the nearest whole degree.”

    Page 32 has a diagram that explains how Izen came to his conclusion about parallax error; they are both assuming that the graduated scale will be in front of the column of mercury, I was experimenting with my much cheaper designed for vertical use gauge with the scale behind the tube. When you see the amount of problems caused by all this horizontal gauge placement they use, it does make me wonder, why do they do it that way?

    For instance from page 33 we find
    “Sometimes there may be breaks in the mercury or alcohol columns, the thermometer may be too difficult to reset, or it will reset itself between readings.”
    The whole of page 34 and most of 35 is dedicated to how to fix your thermometer by bashing, swinging and tapping it!

    Then we get to some more almost unbelievable instructions regarding the electronic display types on page 37
    “Record the maximum, minimum, and current temperatures on WS Form E-15. Record to the nearest whole degree, even though the readings are displayed to the nearest tenth degree. If the last digit is a 5 (e.g., 43.5), round the temperature upward to the next higher whole degree (i.e., 44).”
    And also on page 37
    “Today’s maximum temperature must be at least as high as the higher of today’s or yesterday’s
    temperatures at the time of their respective observations temperatures were 64 ° and 52 °, and today’s maximum temperature is displayed as 62 ° , you must raise today’s MAXIMUM to 64 °.”

    So there we have it in black and white, raise, raise and RAISE those temperatures, for we must be seen to be warming. They are instructing their little green volunteers to raise the temperature by more than the amount attributed by AGW!
    What other strange and unusual contradictions will I find when I read up a little more on the other chapters?


  364. meltemian says:

    Does it really say “Today’s maximum temperatures must be at least as high as the higher of todays or yesterdays”? That can’t be right surely? That would say the temperature must always rise not fall – obviously rubbish!
    I only looked at page 26 – I’ll go back again and look further. Mind you this manual is 21 yrs old, does that put it before digital readings?

  365. NoIdea says:


    Yes it does indeed say just that! On Page 37 and yes it does cover the digital readings.


  366. Locusts says:


    Who would have thought manuals could be quite so interesting.

  367. scud1 says:

    Hello everyone.

    Increasingly, I’m finding the comments at the Guard’ a marvellous barometer as to the publics perception of AGW. Check out the latest…

    Good weekend all.

  368. fenbeagle says:

    Is it safe to say, Australia now has a ‘hung Parliament?’….Or have I missed something?

  369. Locusts says:


    hung as in well hung?

  370. manonthemoor says:

    For all those who do not believe in perpetual motion, I have news for you.

    Just visited the the JD blog and there before my eyes was perpetual motion in action, even some good and interesting posts. 1130 posts and counting.

    I wonder what the DISQUS limit is?
    Regardless a great tribute to James.
    Will it overtake Oz currently 7000 +?
    I now hope it will continue to demonstrate to DT the value of James
    Will the DT pull it?
    Waiting for the Booker piece due soon! — Just looked — another no AGW week!!!!

    Man on the moor

  371. manonthemoor says:

    August 22, 2010 at 3:04 am

    Excellent link many posts to recommend, I even managed 3 recommends on some posts LOL

  372. Dr. Dave says:

    I was reading earlier comments and read some discussion about your “party rule” system. I didn’t quite understand it. So while it’s VERY early morning there I’ve been doing some homework here trying to decipher Australian politics or at least distill it down to something I can understand. So the trick is for one party to gain at least 76 seats and by so doing the party gets to determine who is PM…I think. Your Senate remains a mystery to me.

    Obviously this would lead to party rule rather than true representative government. It also removes an important check and balance inherent in the American system. In the last 60 years of our nation’s history we have had a Republican president for 36 years and a Democrat for 24 years. During this time Democrats controlled Congress for about 46 years while Republicans controlled Congress for about 14 years. American voters are very selfish at the local level. They vote for representatives who bring back the most from federal government largess to their district but often vote for a President of the opposite party to keep things in check. Bush enjoyed a Republican majority in both houses of Congress for 6 years of his presidency and managed to do damn little except spend money. The thing is, the economy doesn’t belong to a President, it belongs to Congress. Only they can determine spending and taxation. The Democrats won back both houses of Congress in 2006 so the last two years of the Bush presidency were really defined by a Democrat economy.

    In 2008 something very unusual happened. The Democrats won control of the White House and both houses of Congress. Further (and this is VERY unusual) they had supermajorities in both houses. The result has been party rule. The USA is supposed to be a representative democratic republic. The Democrats have successfully jammed hugely unpopular legislation down our throats. A lot of Democrat Congressmen clearly voted AGAINST the will of their constituencies and in lock-step with their party. They won. They got their legislation passed. But a whole bunch of them are going to pay dearly for it in November as they join the ranks of the unemployed.

    All these Democrats have willingly fallen on their swords because they know it is even more difficult to undo bad legislation than it is to enact it. They also have Obama’s veto for another couple of years. This is party politics not representative government.

    In Jan ’11 Obama will still be President but he will no longer be able to advance legislation which is unpopular with the majority of Americans. Single party domination of the political process is dangerous in the hands of any party. In the case of the USA it is absolutely deadly in the hands of Marxist ideologues.

    So back to Australia…we can argue the merits (or lack thereof) of a foolish, fruitless and expensive endeavor such as carbon mitigation (face it, it’s a religion), but what sane politician would campaign for a 30% tax on resource exports? Do they not realize how this will affect your economy? I still cling to hope that Abbott wins this thing.

  373. scud1 says:

    The Doctor (wish he was mine)…Excellent post.

  374. NoIdea says:

    A song about little folk, called one inch man by Kyuss

    I am not sure if this is about leprechauns or climate research volunteers though.


  375. Dr. Dave says:


    Man! You link to some of the weirdest crap I’ve ever heard.

    Now here’s a nice little American ditty performed by a couple fine chaps from the UK:

    Note for note it’s your better bargain.

  376. Pingback: A Plague On Both Our Houses | Be Responsible – Be Free!

  377. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Dr. Dave says:
    August 22, 2010 at 5:14 am

    Morning Dave,

    You seem to be “getting a handle” on our system – about as confused as the rest of us. As you will have noticed if you read Ozboy’s blog “To Refuse to Choose” or Memoryvault’s and my earlier conversations, our Electoral/Parliamentary System is a bastardization of the aspirations of our Constitution, in fact, in almost every respect amoral and illegal.

    As MV said, “The stumbling block is, who do you complain to?”

    In recent decades our elections have become “Presidential” in style, promoting or denigrating the individuals leading the 2 major Parties. Hitherto they were more about Party Policy. You describe Americans voting for one Party in the Congress and a President from the other as a form of checks & balances. The weird thing here is – we don’t elect our Prime Minister.

    The Labor Party is run by a Caucus and riven with Factions, Left, Right,Centre/Left and so on, compounded by the Factions from the most populous states of NSW and Victoria. Their back-room machinations, deals, trade-offs etc are the engine that drives the Party. It was the NSW Factional Back-room boys who decided Rudd was an unpopular electoral liability, dumped him and propelled the Deputy Gillard into the hot-seat. The Labor Caucus chooses the Party Leader – if they win Govt, that person becomes PM.

    In the Liberal Party, the Libs in the Parliament elect their Leader. If they win Govt that Leader becomes PM. Last year as Turnbull (previous Opposition Leader) formally adopted Labor ETS Policy and demanded the Parliamentary Party support it, a faction led by Abbott refused and challenged for the leadership. He succeeded by one vote. Turnbull, one-time applicant for Labor membership and previous Oz MD of Goldman Sacs, is still waiting in the wings like a carrion crow on a barbed wire fence, desperate for Abbott to put a foot wrong.

    The People don’t elect the Prime Minister but the election campaign is run on the merits or failings of the two Party Leaders.

    As people become increasingly disenchanted with the 2 Party system, aspirants running as Independents are gaining more ground and they are often those who have broken away from the Parties, fed up with being told what to do and how they should vote which, as MV reminded us, is unConstitutional and illegal.

    If we have a hung Parliament with the majors having equal seats, their separate “deals” with successful Independents will determine who can claim a “coalition-style” majority and form a Government. That is seen as unworkable as the Ind may well not toe-the-line and the “deal” falls apart.

    Oooops, it looks like Oz has come up with a new slant on this conundrum.

  378. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Dr. Dave says:
    August 22, 2010 at 6:48 am

    Man! You link to some of the weirdest crap I’ve ever heard.”

    I agree…LOL

    However, the Cygnet loves his stuff – it’s cool.

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