A Bit Of British Fair Play…

…or so it seems from this story in the UK Daily Telegraph. Under new guidelines published on Tuesday, the BBC will henceforth be required to give “appropriate weight” to dissenting views on controversial subjects—like Anthropogenic Global Warming.

Our God-Emperor is quoted in the above story as being highly doubtful that the updated guidelines will make any difference to the clear editorial bias displayed by the Beeb in recent years. And how could it, when staff know the £1 billion black hole in its pension fund can only be remedied by an unprecedented upswing in the fortunes of the alternative energy industry in which it is so heavily invested? Talk about calling through your pocket.

As I see it, the only long-term solution is to privatize the BBC forthwith, allowing it to become an open and honest advocate for whatever it believes in, as opposed to the surreptitious parasite on the public purse that it currently is. Scrap the archaic television license fee in Britain, let it be financed by private subscription and/or advertising like any other broadcaster, and let us all see whether the public is prepared to support the kind of message it appears so eager to shout from the rooftops. Better, those who work for it will truly be putting their money where their mouths are, because any collapse in their pension fund due to the failure of the alternative energy bandwagon will be entirely their own problem to deal with.

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254 Responses to A Bit Of British Fair Play…

  1. Amanda says:

    Good post, Oz. I entirely agree — surprise! — and what’s more, I very much resented the whole TVL (TV Licensing) arm of the BBC when I lived there before 2004. I did not have broadcast TV but the TVL arm would not believe me, and threatened to send someone round to verify that fact. Me and Mr A. had a fit. I wrote a how-dare-you-letter; he got on the phone and said, with his strong American voice which I think was a help (land of the free and all that): ‘so let me get this straight– you’re threatening to send a G-man to my house against my will?’ As I said in my letter: if the cops can’t legally stand in my living room just to make sure I’m not smoking pot, by what right can you do the same (or go into my bedroom where the TV is) in order to prove that I’m not lying?’ The strength of our resistance was required because they sent frequent brochures and letters implying strongly that we were liars and law-breakers because — gasp — we claimed not to be watching The Bill every week or be hooked on Coronation Street. And I have to say, their behaviour wouldn’t last five seconds in America. If more Brits told them where to get off, they would. They certainly learned to leave us alone.

  2. Pointman says:

    Well, everybody’s doing a bit of ‘repositioning’ these days and it comes as a welcome relief to us all that the BBC are sticking their toe in the waters. Not to us all I suppose because some of us really aren’t in a position to welcome it nor to find relief in it. We died.

    We’re the infants and elderly people of the developing world of 2007-09, who didn’t make it through the doubling and more of food prices because staple food growing was abandoned in favour of bio-fuel crops to make your people feel better about themselves. I know we were part of the 80% of humanity called the developing world and we’re a burden but we were people who loved and were loved. We were real people. We’re gone now.

    Remember us.


  3. rastech says:

    I had the same problems with them

    I said they were welcome to park outside on the Public Highway and scan for a non-existent TV if they wished, but if they tried to gain entry, without a warrant, then I’d be making a Citizens Arrest on the criminals and forcibly resisting their unlawful attempt at entry.

    They sensibly changed their tune.

  4. rastech says:

    BBC pension trustees ‘outraged’ by proposed cuts
    The BBC’s plans to bridge its £2billion pension deficit have been thrown further into turmoil, with pension fund trustees saying that they were “aghast” and “outraged” by director-general Mark Thompson’s plans to cut employees’ entitlements.

    By Neil Midgley, Assistant Editor (Media)
    Published: 7:01AM BST 16 Sep 2010

    I bet it’s a lot more than £2 billion . . . . .

  5. rastech says:

    Pointman says:
    October 15, 2010 at 11:38 am

    Well put.

  6. Dr. Dave says:


    Nice post but I fear you put too much faith in American media. Our media may not be as overtly “state controlled” as the BBC but they’re just as controlled (covertly) via crony capitalism. NBC (and affiliates), CBS, ABC, CNN and Viacom are firmly in the tank for the Obama regime. Then we have PBS and NPR which are weak sister answers to the BBC. I get lost in the tangled web of the Disney owned channels and all the TLC, Discovery, etc. channels that are firmly Democrat sympathizers. Hell, the bias even extends to pay channels like Showtime and HBO! Only FOX (and talk radio) stand out as objective or “other side” partisan proponents.

    PBS has their incessant pledge drives but what they don’t mention is that they receive boat loads of monies already confiscated from unwitting taxpayers. We have scant little “real” media left in America.

    I’m vaguely familiar with the media in the UK and I try to pay attention as much as I can. Mostly what impressed me is that regular readers of the DT or the CFP know more about what’s going on in America than your typical American. The media in OZ is very difficult to access except through video clips. Sometimes I wonder if my brethren in the UK or Oz ever see the Glenn Beck show. I’m curious about the lens through which they view us. Through the eye of our rabidly socialist media one might expect America to be a giant socialist enclave. In reality that’s far from the truth.

    The BBC can be mandated to balance their coverage. Try that with MSNBC.


  7. Amanda says:

    Rastech, yes, that’s the only line to take with them, really. Terrible bullies. I was appalled myself: surely liberty had a better hold in England than this?

  8. Amanda says:

    Dave, I know what you say is true even though I only ever watch broadcast TV in the States when staying in hotels! For the same reasons as you, I like Fox (especially the All-Star panel with Bill Kristol, the other chap at Weekly Standard whose name I forget at the moment, and Brit Hume; even Juan Williams to his credit makes an effort to be even-handed, and I’ve warmed to him).

    Maybe Oz can comment on how the media slant is in Oz: is it one against the rest, as in the case of Fox versus the MSM in general; and is talk radio important for conservatives, as it is in America?

  9. Excellent post, OzBoy, and stunning for exhibiting how governments have become experts, through attendance of seminars and workshops on the subject of public communications, in talking out both sides of their mouths (or more appropriately, sticking ye aulde cork in yon nether region so that, forsooth and verily, doth purple percolating cascades of wretch inducing putrescence trip forth lightly and sonorously off their green plus red equals brown tongues).

    It is not only the BBC which doth perpetrate such vile and reprehensible contumely.
    I spent a couple of important hours reviewing the following sites of two U.S. Department of Defence agencies’ charters and activities in reponse to Executive Orders to “get serious” about climate change. This they did in truth of the letter of the law while retaining unlimited rights to do ye aulde 180 degrees about-face against the day the carbon fraud house of Tarot cards (hi, Amanda) doth fall to Earth with a resounding splurp and splatter to discolour the point of impact into a something roughly resembling an abstract expressionists’ study in red, brown and gooey purpled pink.



    Wading through this pile of governmentese, I laughed to see there are but two requirements which DoD follows: inventorying, not acting upon, carbon emissions from power plants, engines, solvents, etc. while doing the usual due diligence they have executed in improving efficiencies where possible; and procuring where possible products and services which comply to green guidelines which in turn are in most instances reincarnations with flowery greentard phrasing and syntax, compleat with dancing bunnies under a smiling sun and every minotiry and ethnic group except Judeo-Christian white heterosexual males holding hands and singing, of pre-existing standards relating to quality control traceability, efficiency standards compliance, and cost-benefit.

    PLEASE NOTE: this is not a site DoD wants people to see especially, which is why I am making .MHT archive files for the webpages. I wish I had done that on the 1996 pages for BP and their activities in carbon fraud perpetration as spearheaded by Lord Browne of TwinklyPink Tutu Manor. BP is the largest single financier of IPCC and the other carbon institutes, so the government funding dimension isn’t really pertinent to the fraud overall from the standpoint of who started it all.

    When you access the above links, a lockout for security certificates pops up: click YES to accept their security certificate to get at their sites. This is the only US Federal site I have ever had this happen with. This is how they keep the great unwashed realists like us from viewing their activities.

  10. Amanda says:

    Fred Barnes.

    Interesting because at the GOP convention on ’04, when the Bush girls were part of the events, Barnes found their contribution cringe-making: vulgar, inelegant, and unamusing: and I agreed with him. Not everyone did.

  11. Amanda says:

    Hello, Waltrouschka. Mandita here.

  12. At the Denix site, I was profoundly and positively impressed by their work on emerging pollutants. They are addressing REAL toxins there that do genuine damage to people which the EPA has not even sorted out where to start yet.

    This isn’t out of any Department of Defense altruism. They don’t want their troops and civilian staff to suffer ill effects of environmental exposure to genuine toxins which reduces their combat and administrative effectiveness.

    DoD is doing a workaround while being able to say, when the carbon fraud is finally dropped, that they always were hip to the dodginess of the concept, while at the same time getting the work done in spite of greentard meddling with work they have done for decades, heretofore uninterfered with by medievalistic monks mumbling memes of Mann-induced mental masturbatory madness.

  13. Amanda says:

    Oz: ‘Cause sitting on fences could make you a pain in the ass’ :^)

  14. Hello, Amandita. Don’t scare yourself with those Tarot cards, luv. I know several very lucid and sound-minded people who foodled about with these things (as well as with Ouija board, the I Ching, and other alternative cosmological weirdnesses from the abyss of human folly) who ended up in treatment LOL My little brother is one of them. Don’t know what he saw, but he’s been on lithium since.

  15. mlpinaus says:

    The media slant in Aus?……. More the question of what media? My son just came in and asked me what I was doing at my laptop, prior to him going off to university this morning. I said reading the paper…. the various blogs, including this one, and overseas newspapers on line that give me an little idea of what is going on…. What media?

  16. Pointman says:

    It don’t mean a thing Pointy, just do the floorshow.


  17. Amanda says:

    Blackadder Bear: Oh I’m well on top of it. I’ve done my share of ‘seances’, though I never bothered with that Ouija commercial crap. Upturned wine glass and a circle of letters, numbers, and yes and no on paper squares. My mum and I did it once together. The glass spun so fast round the table that we couldn’t ‘hold on’ and it spun off and shattered on the floor. Mr A is still incredulous. He doesn’t understand the understand the idea that you cannot *push* a glass with your fingertip, never mind direct the other people (it works better with at least three) if they have other ideas; in fact, if you try to push the glass (we all did, out of curiosity) it either stays still or you tip it over. I don’t know what the physics is because I’m not a believer; but anyone that says the glass just does what you want is not paying attention. There is some sort of physical charge that happens and you cannot control it. Again, Mr A insists that this is what happens. He’ll be shocked if we ever try it and he finds that the glass moves under his finger and he is not pushing (and pulling is impossible).

  18. Amanda says:

    Ahem, just one ‘understand’, there should have been….

  19. Amanda says:

    What I meant also is, I’m not a believer (in unseen emotive agents) but I don’t know how physics would explain or does explain the phenomenon I’ve experienced. We did seances for a lark. When the glass broke it put me off and I’ve never done it since.

  20. Amanda says:

    Anyway, Walt, I’m sorry to hear about your brother; but I was serious in saying that I bought it to look at the art.

  21. Amanda says:

    Lovely music, P.

  22. It is a strange Universe, to be sure, Amanda. I don’t think our five senses reveal 1% of its secrets. That being said, if any belief system, unknown motive elements present or not, has nothing to do with making you a better person in one’s dealing with others, it is a source of trouble, usually.

    I rather think the lithium issue and the Ouija board routine and going mad were a sublimated response to an Episcopalian church gone wrong in which all we O’Brien’s had faith, though we didn’t buy into the anti-Catholicism as the gazillion other O’Briens were Catholic and were and are nice people. Being betrayed by one’s faith is more traumatic than by anything else one can experience, including death. What saved me a similar fate was my longstanding dim view of the current proceedings culturally in the Sixties combined with a circle of laughing and jovial and equally workaround-minded Jews and privately-schooled Catholic bad boys (and “bad” girls) to keep me company throughout high school and in the military.

  23. Her Majesty is still my Pope. Why? When you’re a Jet you stay a Jet…

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exGJsv6ZNlo Long may She reign.

  24. Amanda says:

    Well, Walt, I’m glad to hear that you had the company of bad boys and esp. ‘bad’ girls :^)

    ‘sublimated’ or ‘subliminal’? ‘Sublimate’ is a fancy version of ‘sublime’: When one sublimes, one elevates a baser desire by making it serve a higher one. That is surely not what this writer meant when he wrote: “They’re the sorts of songs that Costello could make his own without a second thought, but Krall is far better at sublimating her own voice to a song.”*

    *Douglas Wolk, “The Undynamic Duo,” Slate, 18 June 2004 [20 September 2004].

    From my manuscript on British and American English.

  25. Amanda says:

    Love the Jets song. This is one of the bits that speak to me, as an immigrant: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qy6wo2wpT2k

  26. What outrages me more is the fact the Aussies won the commonwealth games as one united country yet the UK had to field four teams or seven if you count the dependencies.
    If I’m correct Australia is made up of many different states and all should have been made to field separate teams…. yours outraged of Tonbridge Wells.

    22 million Australians. How many English again, crown? – Oz

  27. Locusts says:

    I only watch the BBC World Whatever when I stay in poshish hotels. I can’t stand it for long, after a few minutes my hackles raise and I start hissing at the screen. I can’t believe that such self hating anti-British propaganda is funded by so many well meaning Mr and Mrs Averages.

  28. Hi locusts at least here BBC America is commercially driven so it takes all UK TV and we generally get the best stuff and no crap, the news I do not watch as it is so biased.

  29. The following sort of explains why ministries of defence tend to take a dim view of the latest trends to please the politicians who tell the defence folks they need to chnage with the times, while at the same time trying them on just to make sure they may not have missed out on something which may be of use to commanders and support operations:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-rWnQphPdQ Ah, yes. The Sixties.

    And the spirit lives on. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JELZDJYcmiQ Sigh.

    I rather suspect the following will be the defence communities’ final and common response to the environazis: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GkLXdLgOybE&feature=related Here’s your greentard stealth revolution.

  30. Anyone out there in the Commonwealth or UK ever fired an FN? Always wondered how it sized up.

  31. Amanda playing with dark forces can lead to trouble that’s what finished off Alistair Crowley.
    Apparently some of my compatriots from my school days tried the ouija board thingy round at one of our local eccentrics a man called Bonk with an IQ off the scale who ended up doing a Ted Zacynski but without wanting to kill people who channeled his rage against the system by cycling 8 miles to save 2p on a loaf of bread.
    I digress however the details are sketchy but apparently they opened up a portal to hell and strange spirits were summoned and weird things occurred. However it wasn’t their house so they went home and I’m sure Bonk welcomed the company or never noticed the change in his reality you have been warned.

  32. Locusts says:

    Hey Crown, understood

    Locusts, everyone,

    This one – a letter to the Standing Committee of China’s National People’s Congress, urging the enforcement of Article 35 of China’s constitution regarding free speech, and signed by 23 leading Chinese academics, journalists, lawyers and others, is quite important so I’ve moved it to Rare Scribbling; you can view it here – Oz

  33. Locusts says:

    end of thread disruption

  34. Amanda says:
    October 15, 2010 at 1:45 pm

    Our thespians in high school did the whole play. Not one Puerto Rican in the entire school district, to my knowledge. Lots of Polacks, though LOL A wise creation, after a fashion. Leonard Bernstein’s grandparents were immigrant sewing machine operators, to the best of my knowledge, which is where the fire in this play come from.

    All American immigrant waves experience this, often 100 years after their ancestors came through Ellis Island. Competition is the American deity, even when and especially when there is no reason or use for it. Go figure.

  35. Locusts:

    Let freedom ring. Some celebratory music from Woodstock. This dude is still gigging all through small bars and venues in the Northeast USA:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-d5x-CiTUs His best song, ringing through my mind the whole time I served: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2st2E3KPJM Good stuff.

  36. Walt you mean the Belgian FN my brothers weapon in the army that effer would leave a large exit wound apparently a heavy weapon but effective. Only ever held on at a village fair when the army came by to drum up interest in the military. Where it turned out the guys were from my brothers ex regiment and my brothers exploits were legendary as having the distinction of getting barred from every pub in Gibraltar apparently a first in 300 years. At least one of my family holds a record. A brother who aced the IQ tests and was asked to take officer training but just wanted to be a squaddie when he says things jokingly about the voices in his head I believe him. Actually NI messed him up, a lot of torn loyalty’s knowing that your own family was mixed Catholic and Protestant whose side are you on.

  37. Locusts booble translate tells me you said a number 10 a number 23 and a number 38 with extra spring rolls hold the dog.

  38. I think that bit about split loyalties did for LB’s brainbox as well, though, being a typical Irish American, he never talked of it. Shoulda taken him out with me and the boys from Dr. Destructo and the Destructonauts in high school and trained him the fine art of telling the Universe to eff off whilst spreading chaos, mayhem and laughter in a trail behind us. If yer wrapped to tight yer brains ooze outta yer ears like toothpaste, is how it was explained to me. I took that to heart.

    The M14 is what I trained on. Nice tool. De-toleranced, so it rattled a lot, but you could drop into into mud, dry it off, check, clear and oil the barrel, then run it on full auto, if you held it down with one arm while firing. The standard field modification for full auto was to run the sling from the front barrel with the other end of the sling tightened around your arm, then you could swing the thing like a rather overlong machine pistol. Same with the Matty Mattels. Its weak point was always the barrel lift. If they had introduced a mod with a three-round burst selector, it would still be standard issue (well, the magazine also had an annoying tendency to drop out when you least needed it to LOL. There was no field mod for that except medical tape which tended to gum up the works, too).

    Not even curious about what’s on the Other Side of the Sun or behind the Beyond. Hasn’t made me a dollar or a friend worth having yet.

  39. Amanda says:
    October 15, 2010 at 1:45 pm

    It doesn’t mean being treated like an immigrant doesn’t hurt. Usually a good weep now and then, then getting angry and out-succeeding everyone else at what you want to do does the trick as remedy.

  40. Amanda says:
    October 15, 2010 at 1:45 pm

    Try on being a political refugee and exile in your own country for 40 years for size sometime.

  41. Amanda says:
    October 15, 2010 at 1:41 pm

    Would subliminalize be the better term, then? I despise latinization, it what most government doc’s are loaded with. Have you a synonym?

  42. Locusts nice to see the whole draft we only got the synopsis here.

  43. Blackadder Bear well the split loyalties was from my O’rish Catholic heritage as even when I was in school Irish heritage was scorned. That was in the 70’s and 80’s. My Nans uncle or cousin I’m hazy on the exact relationship was killed by an Orangeman back in the early twentieth century sectarian violence ran rife even then. One side of the street were Irish Catholics the other Irish Protestants.

  44. Amanda says:

    Well, now that everyone sensible has sensibly gone to bed, how about the black arts in action:


  45. Locusts says:

    Apart from the first one, these photos could just have easily have been taken in a Chinese backwater:


  46. Amerloque says:

    Good Morning, Everyone !

    Over on JD’s current DT thread, a poster named “Damocles” has indicated a link about AGW over at Forbes Magazine. IMHO, it’s worth stopping by over a cup of coffee:


    (Yes, we know that this “Damocles” might be a troll … perhaps he is giving this link so as to redefine him/herself ?)



    Now is not the time to let up !

  47. jazznick says:

    Can anyone advise when these new BBC guidelines are supposed to start ?


  48. Locusts says:

    Damocles is not a troll, he just likes to live in his self defined middle ground.

  49. memory vault says:

    One might say a kindred spirit eh grasshopper?

  50. Locusts says:

    Haha, cousins at most!

  51. Locusts says:

    Whoops, stuck over here, I’m not even sure if it is the drum roll I am looking for!

  52. Amerloque says:
    October 15, 2010 at 9:37 pm

    Another three months, and the DoD website I posted above will be about 20 pages shorter. The AGW vampire, however, needs another 30 wooden stakes just to make sure.

    Now is not the time to let up!

    Now I remember what I forgot: where the carbon market is at at the moment. Back in a bit.

    Nice disco posting, Amanda. Remember when an actor’s ability to charm an audience was a force-multiplying career asset? I finally came up with a name for 2000-2010: The Charmless Decade. One has to be profoundly physically strong to do what that dancing couple did for this number, yet they glide without so much as busting a sweat.

  53. Well, I’m being unfair. George Clooney and Helen Mirren could charm the Devil into going to Sunday School LOL!

  54. Not that he isn’t already there anyway.

  55. Locusts says:
    October 16, 2010 at 12:16 am

    What’s wrong with Founding Sons, I wonder? The whole Forum’s down.

  56. The Regional Greenhouse Gas Initiative spot price is almost at the lowest allowable (floor) price @ $1.86/a tonne reduction. This is doubly bad for carbon traders, as RGGI’s are consolidated numbers reflecting the cost of lumped-together reductions which have to do with actual toxins (NOx, SOx, etc.). EU carbon trades which enjoy insurance underwriting to somehow equate these as annuities LOL hover between 13.8 and 15.00 Euros, while CER’s are down quite a bit. Nowhere near floor price yet, but they are like petrochem products, derivatives traders and the insurance companies as well as European government subsidies kite them higher than actual worth.



    The Katrina suit’s and the 16 other lawsuits’ docket dates rapidly approach. Those should do for that lot. Wish msher was here, as she has a list of the ones which are most immediately pending.

  57. I believe we can safely assume FabSol is David GrowC*nt, as she/he/it is back on station at the Dinosaur Turd. Remember David’s touching multiple farewells? LOL Pathetic.

  58. Amerloque says:

    Hello Vlad Bear !

    on October 16, 2010 at 1:36 am

    /// The Regional Greenhouse Gas Initiative spot price is almost at the lowest allowable (floor) price @ $1.86/a tonne reduction. This is doubly bad for carbon traders, as RGGI’s are consolidated numbers reflecting the cost of lumped-together reductions which have to do with actual toxins (NOx, SOx, etc.).///

    Are there puts/calls on these ? If so, what’re the ratios, and … what does it look like for January 11, 2011 ? (grin)


    PS: In 1969, while interviewing for a visa at the Romanian embassy here in Paris: “Therrrre arrrre no fampires in the Socialist State of Romania !” The attaché was outraged. Note that this was the year following the Warsaw Pact invasion of Czechoskovakia to put paid to the Prague Spring … Romania was the only member which didn’t send troops … Vampires ? Actually, near Cluj, in the birth/death registrations of a small town … … … (grin)

  59. Pointman says:

    Amerloque says:
    October 16, 2010 at 2:09 am

    Hi Amer. Last time I looked, Carbon was ‘trading’ at 10c per tonne in America. Julia Gillard wants to impose a $23 price in Australia. If that should come to pass, exercising a few Calls bought at rock bottom on the American market could prove to be a very nice investment.


  60. Amerloque says:

    Hi Pointman !

    October 16, 2010 at 2:42 am

    /// If that should come to pass, exercising a few Calls bought at rock bottom on the American market could prove to be a very nice investment. ///



    Out of curiosity, when would Julia be setting the price ? In the first quarter of 2011 (i.e., on what dates will the $23 be mandated/passed ? To take effect on what date(s) ?


    (Disclaimer of liability: Amerloque is NOT advocating or recommending purchase of or sales of the puts and calls referred to here in any way, shape or form. Caveat Emptor !)

  61. Pointman says:

    Amerloque says:
    October 16, 2010 at 2:52 am

    The whole thing has been farmed out to a special body which is stuffed with her people and Greens, since the opposition will have nothing to do with it so nothing’s firm yet.

    In passing, I have to endorse Amer’s disclaimer. Options trading is high risk but linking it to what is essentially international arbitrage, is well into Captain Insano territory. People a lot smarter than Brainiac have tried it and suffered the consequences. I’m thinking specifically of a bunch called LTCM


    who with the aid of two Nobel laurates in Economics, a battalion of programmers and another one of mathematicians managed to bust themselves and had to be ‘saved’ from bringing down the whole financial system. That sort of magnitude of financial risk taking is also the reason there’s not a single bulge-bracket merchant bank left on Wall St.


  62. NoIdea says:

    The freedom of speech

    England did away with censorship in 1695.

    I noticed at the DT, that the troll that was happy to have my comment(s) removed is now attempting to give a lecture on the freedom of speech.

    It is enough to make one feel quite sick. The rank hypocrisy of these useful idiots, with their carpet bombing cut and paste, and their ever-ready reporting finger is abhorrent.

    What do they fear?

    In my opinion, it is the truth. If they accept reality, then their belief system will shatter.

    This phenomenon has been observed many times in the past with other cults.

    When the glorious leader is proven categorically (cat Al Gore achingly obvious!) wrong, does this remove the belief from the believer?

    In many cases it does not. Rather, the level of cognitive dissonance is heightened and reinforced.

    What must it be like, to inhabit this strange dark world of the cultist where the mere sight of the truth terrifies them?

    This is why we are seeing concerted efforts by cultists to remove free speech from dissenting voices whist demanding that they be given full rein to spread their dogma.

    They cannot handle the truth. The truth has become an anathema to them.

    They display their amphigory with arrogance, demonstrating an anaclitic tendency to rely on the words of others.

    They shout insults and cry foul (and report) if any one responds not with more insults but with reasoned response.

    They will do whatever they must to reinforce the view they have, they will denigrate and obfuscate, they will never give a straight answer to a straight question, and they will twist and turn in their quest to keep their insanity intact.

    How do we know it is they that are insane and not us? We examine their motives, and we find the one common theme, is that they all hope for genocide.

    We observe their obsessive compulsive behavior, their incredible gaps in memory of the very recent past, and their desperate need to be noticed with ever larger and bolder statements. We take note that they have no artistic ability or inclination, we see that music, and poetry, and humour are alien unnatural concepts to the fearful ones.

    They cannot think for themselves, which is why they have been brainwashed into believing the big lies, and truly believe that they must kill us all to save the planet.

    If we examine the patterns of the attacks on free speech, then we start to notice a few things, we have to come to the conclusion that it may just be one very sick individual posting as a few, with many different personalities, (but, similar policies and propaganda!) or it is a few with a similar song sheet (or as Bob observed at joannenova.com “I think they are all working off cram sheets, and as they frequently refer to Skeptical Science to support their arguments, I ponder if such sheets are being prepared and distributed by John Cook, before sending the faithful out to create mischief”) and an accompanying scheduling time sheet to go “on station” at times they can do the most damage. From the consistent number of recommends each of these trolls receives, we can deduce that there are no more than four IP addresses involved.

    No doubt, when this post gets noticed by one of the flab four (or the one real loner…) it will be whisked off into nether land, unfortunately, the reporters/moderators share a similar affliction and they cannot stay focused for long enough to read long posts. They will not get to read this…

    “Aside from information that truly concerns our national secrets and speech that violates a citizen’s right to privacy, Internet regulatory bodies must not arbitrarily delete online posts and online comments. Online spies must be abolished.”

    They will not learn that this was posted online, at a site (https://libertygibbert.wordpress.com/2010/10/15/a-bit-of-british-fair-play/)

    where the freedom of speech is recognized and encouraged. They will not realize that the very act of removing this post will validate everything I have just said.

    Muse: Uprising: © 2009 WMG

    “With all the green belts wrapped around our minds
    And endless red tape to keep the truth confined

    They will not force us
    They will stop degrading us
    They will not control us
    We will be victorious”

    The overwhelming consensus of realists, is that fear mongering watermelons are repugnant, and easily defined by their hatred of humanity.

    The emotional instability and vitriol displayed by the cultish one(s), is confirmation that these are Not Very Nice People.

    Will the length of this post confuse and irritate those with an attention span of a goldfish?

    Will the content of this post have it/them spewing some vile froth, whilst repeatedly bashing the report button?

    Will the niggardly moderator that removed the previous comments just remove this one? Or perhaps, actually go back and read what I had said?

    Will the uneducated be frit, by the use of words of which they have no comprehension?


  63. Amerloque says:
    October 16, 2010 at 2:09 am

    Ya wanna do a deal, touch base with Corinne Boone at Cantor CO2e. Stateside don’t “do” carbon emissions trading straight up, as carbon dioxide is STILL, repeat, STILL not classified as a toxin, so they bundle the carbon trades with NOx, SOx, PM, and volatiles for the trades.

    I would have to subscribe to their Chauncey Fortescue trader account system to get the spreads. They majorly suck, though, as again, all that is keeping this CO2 airborne is phone-shouting by pension fund managers, bundling CO2 with true toxins, and from the insurance companies who underwrite their fecally-encrusted trading certificates.

    Greed is good. Stoopid is not. Try on CER’s or straight-up NOx, SOx, etc. at the EPA auction site. All else? Sell short LOL

  64. They can sue me. What are they going to do, take my Etch-A-Sketch laptop and pre-Columbian desktop??

  65. Nice one, NI. Ajax is back up and running BTW.

  66. Maybe I shouldn’t have mentioned I liked the female surveillance computer operator in Aisle C Row 23 at GCHQ. Now I’ve got a stalker.

    Things could be worse LOL Send us a picture, dear. Are you cute?

  67. Pointman says:

    As a postscript to the financial thing, anyone telling you they can make you money doing that sort of thing is telling a lot more than 23 lies …


  68. Or maybe it is the Red Chinese InterNet surveillance bunch. I do a mean tango, ladies:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_sG5vRKcB0 This is rather a bit too, shall we say, apropo.

  69. Pointman says:

    NoIdea says:
    October 16, 2010 at 3:32 am

    “The freedom of speech “. Commiserations mate! What follows was my last post (pun intended) at the Guardian.

    How strange. I wonder why that comment was censored – sorry I meant ‘moderated’. It was a polite enquiry to another poster who happens to use the phrase “Peace and Love” at the end of each post as does another poster but under another name in the blogosphere. Why’s the word ‘moderated’ being used rather than censored. My feelings won’t be hurt if my post has been censored for immoderate language or content. Is it a spin thing? Of course it is. It’s my fault for being ‘immoderate’ rather than the censors fault for ‘censoring’.

    I wonder why? I suppose there’s the central problem – I’m beginning to wonder why. After a while one begins to express oneself in such a way as to avoid the attention of the internet God of ‘moderation’. The first flagstone to conformity on this bastion of freedom of expression called the internet. “Sleepwalking into the surveillance society …”

    I believe it was Walter Cronkite who observed that of all the kinds of censorship, the most pernicious is self-censorship.


    They deleted it and everything else I’d posted there!


  70. Grauniad’s finances are on the ropes now, too, Pointman. They should not have bought the Independent as they did LOL Sigh.

    Your being booted out reminds me the story of Jack Johnson the boxer who, after his victory over the Great White Hope, decided to take a break with his honey-pie to France to celebrate. The ship line refused to let him buy a ticket on their brand-new ship’s maiden voyage as he was black.

    The name of the ship? The “Titanic.”

    I am wondering if there is any enthusiasm at this blog for organizing a disinvestment campaign in carbon offsets. It didn’t work so hot for the greentard leftard creepos who pushed for Israel disinvestment in the States a few years back: that led to one of the biggest buy-in’s on the Tel Aviv Stock Exchange in their history LOL

    To agitate for that is perfectly legal and morally right. Think of all the pensioners whose life savings we could rescue from certain disaster and subsequent penury.

    On balance, I also consider it is amazing that the DT allows our sort to post at all to the environblogs as we do. The DT is a financial paper of record. Perhaps 30% of their paid subscriptions are by financial institutions with significant investments in the Greentard Fraud.

  71. 22 million Australians. How many English again, crown? – Oz

    Gloating and snickering doth not become thee LOL

    Sorry – Oz 😀

  72. On the disinvesment campaign, may as well be hung for a sheep as a lamb. There will be retribution aplenty if the greentard agenda is thwarted, so you may as well take out as many communist finances as you can before the day.

  73. I fink it’s time for me to network with the Lubavitchers again. Whetever totalitarians do to people, they try it on with the Jews first.

  74. Amerloque says:

    Hi Pointman !
    Hi Tepes Bear !

    Another reason for a clear disclaimer: Ozboy. If push ever comes to shove, we don’t want anyone saying “Well, he was offering tips on the stock market ! Fraud !”

    Plan ahead …


  75. BTW, pegging the offsets at 23 a pop is governmental market fixing. The Feds were going to try that on here, and the SEC slapped them down. The SEC reg’s enjoy by treaty, if that is the word, reciprocity with EU reg’s and thus with China and India, etc., etc.

    So if Gizzard float the offset at 23 bucks, she has nowhere to sell legally and she is breaking international securities law.

  76. Plus all carbon trades are voluntary only by law since Feb 2008. So a vigorous disinvestment campaign would do the trick, I fink.

    Let’s put the diss in disinvestment.

  77. Amerloque says:
    October 16, 2010 at 5:20 am

    So how do I properly phrase a disinvestment campaign cut and paste post, I wonder. Let’s sort out the greentard posting schedule so we can plan ahead, too. it does follow a certain periodicity.

  78. By their slander and lies, the greentards have had the construction permits pulled on dozens of coal fired powerplants.


    We might approach them for funding of this disinvestment campaign, too. :>)

  79. Amerloque says:

    Signing off for the day, in theory.

    Friday night in October.

    Lousy weather here in Paris. Overcast. Drizzly.

    Remedy ?

    Mme Amerloque has come up with a savoury pot-au-feu. Broiled Squash. Followed by a chocolate cake.

    Then snuggle down on the sofa and watch “Michel Strogoff” on DVD. The one from 1956, With Curd Jurgens. (grin)

  80. The US Chamber of Commerce is a fairly influential group.

  81. Ken ye hear the pipes a-callin, lads and lassies?

  82. Amerloque says:

    Hi Philosophical Bear !
    October 16, 2010 at 5:27 am

    Yeah, I’d been thinking along the same lines … perhaps the pot-au-feu will be inspirational. (grin)


  83. Pointman says:

    I wish they’d settle on one name for him. He was either Curd Jurgens, Curd Jürgens, Kurd Jurgens, Kurt Jürgens or whatever. It’s all very confusing …

    The letters he uses to spell Vaterland, are all things and places, some of which you may recognise.


  84. Amanda says:

    Walt, it all depends what you meant by ‘sublimate’. Did you mean plough under, suppress, subdue, subsume within? Which seems to be the case. If I wanted to convey the idea of ennobling or elevating, I would probably myself avoid ‘sublimate’ for a very general audience precisely because so many people have the meaning the wrong way around. So I might write: ‘He sublimed his instinct by devoting himself to rational virtue’, or else I’d write something else altogether.

    Confusion happens so when a word is in flux it’s sometimes best avoided. As you know, words mean different and even opposite things over time, e.g. ‘fairly’ used to mean ‘utterly’ not ‘somewhat’; ‘willy nilly’ properly means ‘whether it’s wanted or not’ and has a sense of coercion or inexorableness, but Americans usually think it means ‘haphazardly’ (the opposite meaning), etc. Then you get words such as ‘receipt’ which also change over the centuries but always refer to some sort of list (first a prescription, in Shakespeare’s day; then a recipe, in Austen’s day; now a statement of goods and the money paid for them). This is all in my MS. I’d put some of the more interesting bits up on a website I’d like to call ‘Langopology’ ( = ‘language anthropology’) but Mr A. thinks it would be giving years of work away and so I shouldn’t. I think I shouldn’t because no one would read it.

    But back to meanings. I think a lot of changes happen through misunderstanding: for instance, you will rarely find American writers that really understand what ‘comprise’ means — they almost always use it to mean ‘makes up’ — whereas Brits invariably use the more traditional definition, ‘consists of’. I can tell that Americans do this because of the context: if someone writes ‘sharks, rays and dogfish comprise the cartilaginous fishes’, they *must* mean that these species *constitute* or make up the group called cart. fishes. Because sharks etc. can’t *consist of* fishes, that makes no sense. A Brit wouldn’t write that: a Brit would usually say ‘the cartilaginous fishes comprise the sharks, rays, and dogfish’. I tend to avoid the word myself because of this mixing-up.

  85. Amanda says:

    Oh god, sorry, that post was far too long. Oh well, at least it’s not a whole blog!

  86. Amanda says:

    So Pointman, when Feb. 14th rolls around, do people say to you ‘will you be my vampire?’ instead of ‘be my valentine’?

  87. Amanda says:

    Pointman: As long as they don’t call him Curdled. Ucch. Kurt seems nicer.

  88. Amerloque says:

    I trid to post an innocuous comment to JD’ latest thread.

    Clicked, and a screen popped up and said “Your comment must be approved by a moderator before you can post here.”

    Looks like it’s now full-fledged censorship.

  89. Amanda says:

    My horoscope for next week says that Sagittarius should be ‘a snake-charmer, playing the pipe of your personality in an effort to uncoil the cobra of confusion’. I must say, I do like the sound of that! Mind you, my grandma-in-law is also Sagittarius and nearly 98, and she’s got hardly any personality left. Never mind the wherewithal to unravel cobras of confusion. And my mother-in-law, also Sagittarius, is very nice but fairly limited in the imagination department. So my stars are only charming if I think they just apply to me! Anyway, Sag is the archer, letting fly arrows to see where they fall. What if I shoot the cobra? :^)

  90. Amanda says:

    Amerloque: Why?? What on earth have you said?? Bizarre.

  91. Pointman says:

    Amanda says:
    October 16, 2010 at 6:14 am

    Well Amanda, I must admit I wished vampires really did exist, if only for that fact that they have such really slinky women. Take this one for example. Were an intrepid Pointman to spend “from dawn to dusk” with her then, in the words of General Walt Ripper, my bodily fluids would be in danger of dessication. Indeed, I might stagger out the next morning feeling like a Walker’s crisp (that would be a chip to you Yanks) …


  92. Bookish Bear says:

    Greetings, Amandita. I am a Sagitarrian, which has done me neither good nor ill.

    I fink subsume is the better fit. Thanks.

    Go to http://www.copyright.gov, go to “File Copyright” and have your credit card handy. It is 35 bucks to make your manuscript a sellable intellectual property.

    Then go to http://aaronline.org/, and pick you out an agent. Greenburger.com are arguably the best in the West. They rep the Joyce estate and dozens of others. Second best is http://www.pfd.co.uk who rep Max Hastings and others.

    They post their submission guidelines on their sites. Follow them to the letter. When they read your letter of enquiry which should be mailed, to be professional, and say, send it along, do so, and Bob’s yer uncle.

    If a publisher makes you an offer, chat with http://www.nwu.org and have them look over the contract offer before you sign (Join firs,though. t Duh). They get you paid.

  93. meltemian says:

    Don’t vampires work from dusk ’til dawn? Mind you you could be working the other shift I suppose! I don’t think “shift” is quite the right term is it….. come to think of it “work” isn’t the word either?
    At least I know you’re not ophidophobic.

  94. Bookish Bear says:

    Sagitard, I am, Iam, more like LOL

  95. meltemian says:

    Amanda & Bear.
    I’m a Saggitarian too. I suppose I’d have to be given the avatar, but I really am. November 26th.
    Mr M’s a Capricorn (old goat) but then so was Jesus!

    ….at least that’s what I tell him.

  96. meltemian says:

    OK tell me…. I posted both before and after the code and it STILL didn’t work!
    It must be me.. I’m a jinx.

  97. Pointman says:

    meltemian says:
    October 16, 2010 at 7:06 am

    Ophidophobic? Eeek Lordy no. They’re actually quite warm, if not hot – a bit like the vampire’s molly in the clip but let’s not go there …


  98. Pointman says:

    meltemian says:
    October 16, 2010 at 7:15 am

    Never mind jinx, it’s good to hear Kris. Like that song. Is it a new one of his?


  99. Bookish Bear says:

    Hi, Meltemian. That’s not encouraging. When I see someone coming at me with a hammer and big nails, I’ll remember to run.

  100. Bookish Bear says:

    Oh. Capricorn. It IS Friday, innit? LOL

  101. izen says:

    I am away a few days… and it takes me over two days to catch up, with much of it nonsense. -grin-

    So I know I’m late to the party, but the idea that private enterprise might do basic science instead of states is just silly.
    Since there was a science worthy of the name it has been sponsored and funded by governments. Most commonly by their funding of universities.
    Some of you may be aware of these institutions, while they may have a quasi-autonomous status by state charter or religious history, their reliance on state resources is obvious.

    Dr Dave tries to justify the idea of private sponsership of science by conflating it with the technological development of commercial products.
    The most glaring example of this is Edison.
    Edison never did any science. There is no ‘Edison’ unit, theory or scientific law. Even the four things he is most known for, light bulb, phonograph, movies and electrical generation existed in various form before he worked on them. His fame and fortune have as much to do with good PR and patent lawyers as any scientific innovation.

    Is the Eisenhower speech the one in which he also warns of the ‘Military-Industrial complex’ co-opting government to fund its own expansion?
    It has been suggested that AGW is a politically inspired pseudo-scientific meme imposed on the scientists by funding capture and group think. Given its historical development that seems improbable. For an example of where political ideology DID capture the scientific process ‘Star Wars’/SDI would be a better model.

    Somewhere Walt mused on the possibility that the US military had a hand in the development of AGW, you are right. Look up the work of Keeling and others during the 50s. The DoD was interested in where radioactive fallout would end up in the event of any nuclear weapon exchange. Tracking isotopes of different elements through the atmosphere and oceans was something the funded. It revealed the rising CO2 and inability of the oceans to offset that in short timescales. That made Callender’s hypothesis (30s) that atmospheric CO2 could rise from human sources and alter the climate.
    Callender was also a ‘state’ scientist. His main job was as a thermodynamics engineer for the Royal Navy. Nominative determinism strikes again….

    G’day Izen,

    If I’d known you were away I would have held off the last thread a few days. That ship has sailed now, I’m afraid. Not to worry – more science later this week – Oz

  102. Pointman says:

    This is a public service announcement. An unidentified object has been picked up on radar.


  103. izen says:

    The Forbes article is less than balanced, by whatever guidelines you use. The major factual error in the third paragraph has already been pointed out in the comments. There are I think two other simple factual errors and several statements that are at best misleading.

    While it is correct to state that solar activity as measured by sunspot number was greater in the second half of the last century than the first, this floats the implication that a solar increase could be the explanation for the temperature increase.
    If the statement about solar activity is made more precise, it rose in the middle of the last century, but has shown no significant change since that time whatever measure you take, sunspot number, cycle length, cosmic ray flux or total energy output.

    The other errors are just as obvious, I wonder how many posters here, with their ‘better-than-average’ knowledge of climate matters, can spot them….

    On the subject of the BBC guidlines, I wonder how much attention should be given to those that hold a different view to biologists on the evolution of Man? It is a matter of dispute, but the scientific case is overwhelmingly on one side.
    Is the BBC correct in its tradition of overt support for Darwinian theory, or should it be more ‘balanced’ by giving half the time to alternative views?

    What criteria do posters here think should be used to decide this issue, and how would that impact on the similar situation in AGW?

    Exactly the issue I wanted to discuss here, so thanks for articulating it.

    Everyone: if the BBC are required to give due weight to dissenting voices on AGW, does this constrain them to also give voice to Creationists? Or even the proponents of Intelligent Design? Note at the top I was careful to put “appropriate weight” in inverted commas. What’s appropriate, and what formal criteria can be used? – Oz

  104. Pointman says:

    Oh God, it’s just Icarus twatting around. How was your holiday at the DT? I take it you’ve staggered back into the B&G after another visit from The Good Doctor?

    Never mind black knight Icarus. We’ll stand you a free beer but no cadging after that, understand?


  105. Amanda says:

    Pointman, liked the music on the clip.

    Well, big deal, she can coil a boa constrictor. I do that while counting paper clips on my lunch break.

    So the story of your life we might then title: The Pointman Files: How I Was Nearly Turned Into A Living Mummy But Hydrated And High-Tailed It Just In Time. Or if you prefer, you could do a self-help blog called Dodge Death And Dessication, Pointman Style (Don’t Forget The Snake). That should get the punters in, I think.

  106. Amanda says:

    Walt, thanks for the help, and I shall tuck the info away. What I’m doing now though is MUCH more fun. And stands a much better chance of thriving…

  107. NoIdea says:


    Welcome back.
    Sometime ago we had been chatting about the previous interglacial.
    I noted that you had pointed to the previous interglacial as being a little warmer than the current one that we are in, whom or what was responsible for that extra 2-4degC warming back then?


  108. Pointman says:

    Amanda says:
    October 16, 2010 at 7:54 am

    “Well, big deal, she can coil a boa constrictor. I do that while counting paper clips on my lunch break.”

    Possibly – but on her a Boa constrictor feels like a lucky snake …


  109. Ozboy says:

    And folks, I’ve just seen something for the first time in my (comparatively) warm-climate life: the sun’s out, and it’s snowing!. Oh wait, that’s right: extreme cold is evidence of AGW too…

    Anyway, I’m off outside to play with my little bloke.

  110. rastech says:

    There’s nothing wrong with balanced covereage in anything in the media. Doubt and asking questions is constructive, not destructive.

    Whilst definitely in the ‘evolution’ camp. There’s a lot of aspects to evolution that should be explored far more.

    I say the same thing about archaology too. The ‘status quo’ stops far too many ‘inconvenient’ things from being discussed, and knowledge about ourselves as a species suffers as a result.

    If there’s something potentially interesting, let’s have a damned good look at it, imho.

    Too many seem to get far too comfy with their assumptiosn and presumptions, and don’t want them challenged, don’t want any boats being rocked.

    That’s not science.

    An example of that seems to be happening with the Bosnia pyramids, for example, and last year I had hopes of making it to Sarajevo to go and have a look myself (I’ve seen enough concrete laid in my life to be able to know what I am looking at, and have also mixed and laid far too much of it myself). Sadly Romanian mosquito’s put paid to those plans, but I hope to actually make it sometime – maybe next year.
    They seem to be covered in concrete from the pictures, but it’s not the same as touching it with your own hands and seeing the aggregates with your own eyes – and even smelling them with your own nose (you wouldn’t believe what I can tell by the smell and even taste of a slate, hehe, but then I have physically handled many millions of those).

  111. Blackswan says:

    A media cyclone has us all in a spin

    “there was no long-term strategic thinking, no proper plan for persuading voters of the virtues of emissions trading and other major policies.


    “Alastair Campbell, who demonstrated mastery of all the tricks of the spinmeister’s trade as Tony Blair’s media adviser, was full of praise for Gillard’s decision.

    I see Jooolya’s strategy now as “distracting” Media/Electorate attention from the machinations of Labor/Greens in the Parliament by little froth&bubble side-issues which bear no relevance to the real impact of their Policies.

    KRudd’s obsession with photo-ops and daily headlines eventually brought him down by exposing him as “The Hollow Man” – if Jooolya can distract us for long enough, she’ll get “the runs on the board” and her rep for action is solid.

    Media Control is the name of the Political Game.

  112. Hungwy Bear says:

    Yum! Izens!

    Seriously, though, Izen, the point of my posting was to demonstrate that while considerable work was done by the DoD in the 1950’s and beyond in this respect, the major difference between them and campus science is their work is more properly called pre-engineering. They are starting out with known objectives and a script to work to, in this case sorting out where the isotopes are going and how to limit their distribution, if possible (the result of this pre-engineering study was the development of the neutron bomb, which leaves no radioactive residuals).

    Weather research they do is like that also: they do it to sort out the best way of getting American firepower through any sort of weather to the point of delivery. Period. They do not “do” theoretical except with a clear objective in mind in addressing a particular solution to a clearly defined problem. The DoD Website dealing with the Small Business Innovation Research programme best deals with explaining the difference.

    Directly speaking to the allegation that the AGW fraud is a product of the DoD in any way, shape or form, not one thin dime of DoD money went to direct or even indirect research into anything so implausible or ridiculous, ever. The links I provided above on a nudge and a wink basis clearly expresses their drollery at the entire existence of a green movement. They react to being told to do something by following orders, no more, no less. That is what the military is about. You don’t get extra points at DoD by going “Yes, but look at this over here!” You get canned.

    It is entirely a civilian bucket of Fabian’s Extrusions.

  113. Amanda says:

    Meltemian and Bear: Capricorns are the sign that’s always being told how wonderful and right they are about everything. OUR sign is always being talked to in cliches about what clods we are (‘you’ve put your foot in your mouth again’; ‘don’t bite off more than you can chew’ etc.) or being told we have lots of luck and breeze through life (where’s my luck, then? eh? eh?) It’s just as well I don’t believe in fairies and astrology or otherwise it would set my teeth on edge! I read one or two very imaginative stars for the same reasons I like listening to songs and reading poems. You don’t have to take the words literally!

  114. Hungwy Bear says:

    You don’t want to hear what my former associate jolly elves with DCMA have to say about green. Lots of them have seen the 10:10 bit, and one I asked if they had seen it said, ” Yup. I am spending more time at the pistol range these days, too.”

  115. Blackswan says:

    G’day Oz,

    From here I can see a total white-out of Mt Wellington and the Hobart hills but we too have sunshine. Enjoy the fun with mini-Oz.

  116. Amanda says:

    Oz, have a great time in the falling snow with your little bloke. Children love snow, especially when they hardly ever see it. When it snowed in Houston, they practically called a recess so that everyone could go out and touch it. Later, after it had been fluffing down for a while, a couple of them were pasting together every last scrap they could find to build up a (rather small) snowman.

  117. Hungwy Bear says:

    Amanda says:
    October 16, 2010 at 8:19 am

    Why the Magic Money Miracle doesn’t happen to us is to keep us alive. I have had several remarkable opportunities presented to me which I took a pass on, and I thank my stars now that I did.

    Last ones standing, that’s the Archers.

  118. Hungwy Bear says:

    Blackswan says:
    October 16, 2010 at 8:21 am

    We need pix, don’t we? Can you send us a digital snap or two, OzBoy?

  119. Amanda says:

    Walt at 8:23: You’re just wonderful.

  120. Pointman says:

    Enjoy the schnee baby Oz


  121. Amanda says:

    but on her a Boa constrictor feels like a lucky snake

    oh, thanks very much! Never mind, I prefer gentlemen anyway.

  122. Blackswan says:

    Connect to NBN now or pay up to $300 for phone line

    “Communications Minister Stephen Conroy has said repeatedly that he would not be forcing homes on to the NBN, however, if consumers want to keep their fixed-line telephone service once Telstra has decommissioned its copper network, then they will need to connect to the new network.”


    Freedom of Choice has apparently achieved the same status as the decaying carcass of Democracy. “Ve haf vays of making you do as you are told”.

    Telstra, in which millions of Australians were persuaded to invest when partially privatised, is having its taxpayer-funded copper network “decommissioned” to be replaced by the taxpayer-funded $43 Billion Broadband network.

    Every low-income family/pensioner/retiree who clings desperately to their phone service as their last link to the outside world for emergency/medical help/family contact is to be disconnected and will stay that way if they can’t come up with hundreds of dollars, a monumental sum for many.

    It seems Carbon Tax is to be the least of our problems.

    G’day swanny,

    A bit OT, but I think I can link it in:

    Between the $52 billion spent on homage to Maynard Keynes and Fabius Cunctator and the $43 billion National Broadband Network (try double that and more before it’s completed) Julia the Red and her cabinet have found themselves with very little coin in the piggy bank (part of a wider agenda?); they are desperate to squeeze more moolah out of Bruce Taxpayer without actually raising direct taxes. Forcing pensioners to shell out for land phones is small change, but hey, every little bit counts. ETS will be the big one, the one they have their hopes pinned on – Oz

  123. Pointman says:

    Try the rip-of version


  124. Pointman says:

    Is that even her miming … ?


  125. Blackswan says:

    Hi Oz,

    I have to say I meant “the least of our problems” more as a figure of speech than anything. You’re right. An ETS and a Carbon Price are the biggies.

    As in……

    “Is this what Australia needs? The national broadcaster brutally backing the old paradigm? What we need is a rigorous intellectual debate using scientific methods and evidence. Science proceeds on the basis of conflict: thesis, antithesis and synthesis.” My emphasis.


    “The CO2 reduction schemes being considered represent a huge redirection of national income. It is incumbent to examine the case for them properly. Perhaps apart from the climate commission the government could fund researchers such as Carter to examine critically the claims of the climate lobby, functioning as climate change auditors or devil’s advocates.”

    Comments and Opinion Pieces like this were nowhere to be found 12 months ago, hence the around-the-world trek to the JD/DT blog. Let’s hope the glimmer of light in the Climate Change tunnel isn’t just the speeding (carbon-belching) locomotive of Carbon Tax.

  126. Green Sand says:

    Pinched from a WUWT post, one line that just seems to portray climate science as practiced today:-

    “The future is certain only the past is unpredictable.”

  127. Pointman says:

    Green Sand says:
    October 16, 2010 at 9:42 am

    Hiya GreenSand. Is that quote from “Dune” … ?


  128. izen says:

    -@ Noidea
    we both seem to have disappeared at the same time – people will talk! -grin-

    How’s the frost-watch going?
    For the UK as a whole a first frost in Sept is unusual and probably means a cold, but no necessarily long winter. You may have found this link –


    First frost and number of frost days obviously varies localy, a Sept frost has never been recorded in Eastbourne, but happens about half the time in Eskdalemuir.

    As for your question about the Eemian thermal maximum-
    Glacial-interglacial periods have a common pattern, it gets colder and colder over tens of thousands of years until the orbital/axial variations in the distribution of solar energy between N/S season triggers ‘rapid’ warming. The positive feedback of albedo change from ice loss and rising CO2 then amplifies that effect so that the maximum temperature of an integlacial is reached within a few thousand years of the previous minimum. Thats around 6 degC in 2000 years. Or about half the rate of warming seen in the last century. It implies a climate sensitivity of around 3degC…

    So the very warm period in the Eemian was immediately after the glacial breakup, some indications are that N hemisphere summer temperatures were several degrees warmer than now. Winters were about the same. That may be a clue.
    It cooled after that to temperature much more comparable to those seen in the millenia after the Holocene maximum.

    In both cases the Milankovitch variations that drive the glacial cycles had just past their maxima of differential solar energy distribution.

    As far as I am aware this is the first interglacial period when temperatures have risen to level similar to the termination maximum several thousand years AFTER the triggering solar distribution event. The usual pattern is a slow decline.

    The Eemian maximum caused enough land ice to melt for sea levels to rise up to 20ft higher than the present. If we hit those Eemian temperatures then similar sea level rise is unavoidable.

    But to answer your intial question – why it was warmer in the Eemian post glacial maximum than now, probably the Milankovitch cycle was such that the summer N hemisphere was getting a little more solar energy than it does now. Or during the Holocene thermal maximum ~8000 years ago.


  129. Blackswan says:


    Thanks for the tip on “Fabius Cunctator” – I guess as a long-term Fabian herself, Jooolya knows the value of a war of attrition.

  130. Blackswan says:

    This post from our resident Bruin is brilliant, hence my giving it a “paste-ing” so to speak..lol

    //Philosophical Bear says:
    October 16, 2010 at 5:21 am

    BTW, pegging the offsets at 23 a pop is governmental market fixing. The Feds were going to try that on here, and the SEC slapped them down. The SEC reg’s enjoy by treaty, if that is the word, reciprocity with EU reg’s and thus with China and India, etc., etc.

    So if Gizzard float the offset at 23 bucks, she has nowhere to sell legally and she is breaking international securities law.//

    This has been really bugging me. She is selling the idea of carbon offsets and their “value” to farmers/business/aboriginal land-owners et al, assuring them of a future fortune to be made in carbon trading on the international markets.

    The Renewable Energy Certificates for wind-toys and PV panels are what is putting Electricity bills through the roof, but what is their dollar-value? Can’t find out – nobody is saying.

    How is all this not “breaking international securities law”?

  131. Green Sand says:

    Hi Pointman,

    I am at the end of a very good evening with friends and probably missing your “dune” connotation. It comes from:-

    BOM disappears rainfall data, “no trend” becomes “downtrend”


    Which is a quite good balancing act cos a few days ago they found UHI!


    Age is getting to me, I really do have a problem keeping up with the amount of nonsense they can produce in one week.


  132. Green Sand says:

    Oz sorry, it looks as tho I am responsible for the Manfred video thing above. I will get me coat and go and learn how to do it proper like, sort of, if only I knew.

    G’day Green Sand. No probs, I’ve reduced it to a hyperlink (by putting a full stop after it)

    Could I remind everyone about the Juke Box? You can swap YouTube clips there at will, without the debate threads getting too slow to load.

    Cheers, Oz

  133. Pointman says:

    OMG the fabled UHI. You mean it really exists …


  134. Green Sand says:

    Now Pointman, Fables! How many could the AGW flight of fantasy have flown? Is there a book, plus a thesaurus me thinks?

  135. izen says:

    “Directly speaking to the allegation that the AGW fraud is a product of the DoD in any way, shape or form, not one thin dime of DoD money went to direct or even indirect research into anything so implausible or ridiculous, ever.”


  136. Green Sand says:

    Pointman says:
    October 16, 2010 at 10:28 am

    “OMG the fabled UHI. You mean it really exists …”

    Shush…, cyber walls have ears! Yours maybe burning!

    Quick Joey Small went over the wall….

  137. Pointman says:

    GreenSand, I think you should ask Icarus about flights of fantasy.


  138. Green Sand says:

    G’day Green Sand. No probs, I’ve reduced it to a hyperlink (by putting a full stop after it).

    Thanks Oz, (tugs forelock and moves to stage left) funny stuff this techie, it don’t mix well with good fun things like Shiraz, Tempranillo, or even a good oak aged Oz blog.

    Nostar, thanks Oz, regards to family. I am now a Gramps to an absolutely gorgeous little girl, enjoy life, its the only one you’ve got.

  139. Green Sand says:

    Pointman says:

    “GreenSand, I think you should ask Icarus about flights of fantasy.”

    I think I know what you mean, but not sure how you can ask a flight of fantasy about flights of fantasy? As any answers will of course contain flights of fantasy?

  140. Pointman says:

    Green Sand says:
    October 16, 2010 at 11:19 am

    GreenSand, we’re getting into deep into an area of recursive logic at which point my brain starts to hurt. If you lurkers don’t know what recursive logic is, do a Wiki lookup. Under the topic ‘recursive logic’ it merely refers you to another topic called ‘recursive logic’. Things like LZW compression algorithams are a bit like that but that’s another story …


  141. thendisnighnot says:

    Been a little busy so haven’t commented for a while. Just had to comment however on Isen”s (the key that ryhmes with bed still not working) response to the thread….. I’m surprised nobody else seems to have noticed the old chestnut re “if you give equal credence to sceptics of CAGW why not give it to God botherers, creationists etc” Absolute unadulterated nonsence why? well for a start if these people have the chance to voice their opinions on evolution it isn’t going to cost the taxpayers of the west multi-trillion $’s!!!!!! This is typical warmists tactics associate genuine sceptisism with belief systems far be it for me to accuse Isen of this but he/she/it does have previous!

    The warmists are right in one respect (unbelievable i know) this is the greatest challenge facing mankind in the 21st century but not for the reasons they insist upon !!! We are sleepwalking into a disaster that makes their doomsday scenarios look like childs play in comparison. I never cease to be amased (same again!!) at the arrogance of these people claiming that humans can influence in any way a chaotic climate system covering the whole globe. It would be funny if the consequences of their group think didn’t have such serious consequences

    Also when exactly did the BBC become no more than an organ of the state? It used to be famed for its impartiality there really should be no reason for this debate and we in the realists camp should not be postrating ourselves in gratitude for a couple of scraps from their table!

  142. Green Sand says:

    Pointman says:
    October 16, 2010 at 11:49 am

    Did a quick search on “recursive logic”, it ref to posts between “Green Sand and Pointman”. So dude, eventually, the whole world got it.


  143. Pointman says:

    Green Sand says:
    October 16, 2010 at 11:59 am

    Well, let’s face it, the whole thread’s a bit sneaky isn’t it? “British Fair Play” is a bit of an ‘in’ joke in Oz …

    Pointy of Wallawoora

  144. memory vault says:


    Stop picking on izen – that’s my job.

    Oh – alright then – just a little – but I get to put the boot in.

    G’day MV. We were just about to declare you AWOL. Bloody cold down here – even snowed at my place this morning. So when’s this Global Warming going to arrive, eh? – Oz

  145. memory vault says:


    So you’re forecasting a cold, but short winter for the UK? There seems to be a bit of confusion regarding the long-range forecast up your neck of the woods.

    One the one hand we’ve got all those pesky “skeptical” weather forecasters who don’t believe in MMGW. You know, the ones who accurately predicted what happened up there last winter, and the summer before that (and the winter and summer before that). Now they’re saying you’re in for long, hard, bitterly cold winter to rival, or possibly exceed what happened back in 1939-42.

    Meanwhile over at your beloved MET Office – you know – they of the “bbq summer” and snowless winters forecasts, and endless scaremongering about MMGW, all worked out on their gazillion dollar computer using their hockey-stick calibrated computer model? What do they have to say? Well, I’ll cut and paste from their own site so we can read their own words, since I couldn’t even make this stuff up:

    “The Met Office no longer issues public long-range forecasts because in our customer research the public have told us they would prefer a monthly outlook. Although the limitations in science mean monthly forecasts are themselves a developing area of forecasting and will therefore be less precise than our short-term forecasts, the public have told us that a monthly outlook would be of use to them. ”


    If I were to don my professional writer’s hat and translate that into plain English for the “common man” oft-referred to by your infallible Royal Society and others of your ilk, it would go something like this:

    “Despite having a budget of millions of pounds of taxpayer’s money, the largest, most expensive and most sophisticated computer system in the whole world dedicated exclusively to weather forecasting, and the most complete and (we claim) accurate database of historical weather information, we haven’t got a f#&%ing clue what’s happened, is happening, or is likely to happen in future. And since we’ve got it so completely and utterly wrong in the past, from now on we’ll just shut up and say nothing”.

    What a joke.

  146. memory vault says:


    Meanwhile izen, it snowed down here in the Dandenongs (again) yesterday. In the middle of the second month of spring down here. Highly unusual – but not unprecedented. It also snowed at King Lake.

    Thumper grew up in King Lake. She remembers it snowing there.


    In the middle of a long, bitterly cold winter when she was a much younger.
    Which would have been smack plum in the middle of the last cyclical cooling period.
    If, of course, the weather was cyclical – which you keep assuring us it’s not.

    But don’t let me put you off izen – you keep plugging away there boy.

    The increasing divergence between observable facts and your “scientific explanations” is highly entertaining – like watching a Charlie Chaplin movie – somewhere between slapstick and farce.

    How’s the Plan B coming along?

  147. Pointman says:

    We’re backing off MV, he’s your snack …


  148. memory vault says:


    Just joshing Pointy.

    izen goes out of his way to set himself up for ridicule.

    Who am I to interfere?

    Interesting clip on the gatling. Personally I prefer something with a little more finesse:

    The background music is a bonus.

    Which reminds me – – –

  149. Blackswan says:

    G’day MV

    Wind’s up, snow down to about 500 metres, gobs of mushy ice slowly inching down the window panes – I thought “Wonder how MV & Thumper’d like this fine Spring day?” – and blow me down – there you are.

    Make sure those boots are steel-capped Blunnies.

    Izen’tit’s? plea for equal time for Creationists misses the point that the god-botherers can choose to pay their tithes for their religion – the Climate Hysterics demand we all pay tithes/carbon taxes to their Green Deities – and they’ll force Legislation to have it confiscated from our livelihoods.

    No comparison at all.

  150. memory vault says:

    Bear Of Infinite Heads

    Walt, you asked about the FN.

    Here in OZ it was known as the NATO 7.62 SLR (self-loading rifle). Generally referred to just as the SLR.

    They replaced the .303 late fifties, early sixties as our mainstay rifle, plus we re-equipped Brens with a modified 7.62 barrel as our light machine-gun . I shot both in Cadets 1964-68, then again in Nashos.

    Not a bad rifle, not a good one. Heavy, for what they were, and while they could be zeroed in fairly accurately at the range, one or two good knocks in the field and they were all over the place again. They also had a fairly complicated mechanism.

    The we replaced them with the plastic Steyr 5.56 pea shooters at something like AUD $2,000.00 apiece and out in the field the grunts put condoms over the muzzle to keep the water out.

    Neither the SLR nor the Steyr are a patch on the Chinese 7.63 SKS rifles I owned – the ones the fell off the back of my ute and down a mine shaft some time ago.

  151. memory vault says:

    Hi Swan,

    Tell me about. I’m sitting here in sunny, tropical QLD in a tracksuit over a tee- shirt and trousers, with two pairs of socks, praying for a bit of global (or at least local) warming. It’s quite literally blowing a gale outside, we’ve got the electricity folk fixing power lines and the council crowd are clearing the blown-down trees.

    izen misses the point.


  152. Walt O'Bruin says:

    izen says:
    October 16, 2010 at 10:35 am

    I think you need to take a look at a flowchart of the US government one day, old son. The CIA is not a military organization, and if I had anything to do with it, I would have left American intelligence in the hands of a military organization such as the OSS. The CIA is a not part of the Department of Defence, it is part of the Executive branch answerable only to the President and Congress. Prior to Pres. Ford’s reforms it was answerable only to the President.

    The DoD in our political system does NOT, repeat, NOT set national priorities for anything. If they need something they have to go to Congress. It echoes directly and to the letter the commands and directives handed down to them by civilians.

    No general, no admiral, no air force commander, walks up to a microphone to speak to the press about anything without the blessings and approval of the civilian government, on anything. This is NOT Latin America, nor a constitutional monarchy; we are compartmentalized this way for a reason. Were there ever to have been a military coup or mutiny, it would have happened in 1968-9.

    Again, no specific military research, directives, commands nor orders were ever given to make of climate change a military priority on an a priori basis by an American military commander. The President and Congress propose, the military disposes.

    But you having got to think on the matter, the DT is doing, through having JD’s column and Goofrey Doofrey’s column running simultaneously, exactly what DoD is doing: playing it both sides of their mouth so that with a 180% turnaround in national civilian-dictated policy, they have less to move into the warehouse awaiting Surplus Property Disposal Division to put up for auction. Newspapers react to national leadership or the lack thereof and to those they serve exactly as does a military organization in a democracy: they make it their business to reflect the will of the people within the framework of the preservation of the Constitution which governs conduct in their nation.

    You don’t care about that rigamarole. You don’t have to. Millions of young people performing like fully articulated action figures as your public servants do so for you.

    Again, greentardness is entirely a civilian bucket of percolating purple putrescence of the sort emanating from your kid-splattering, drug-addled eugenic soulmates and fellow civilization smashers, Fabian’s Extrusions, David Growc*nt, and Budgie Wudgie, and C*ntalley.

  153. Walt O'Bruin says:

    memory vault says:
    October 16, 2010 at 1:54 pm

    When the M16A1 came out commanders in the field had a rough time taking the M14 away from the Marines. (The A2 mod works as it should, but I do not believe that was available until the 1980’s or so). What resulted was a field day in mail orders to Mossberg and Remington for 12-gauge full choke boomsticks with extended magazines and for #22 buckshot. A lot of National Guard armories were raided for the older Garands and M-1’s too, and of course there were lots of Charlie’s toys left on the ground next to their former users if one moved fast enough.

    In most ways, the Viet Nam conflict was less well served than was Afghanistan or Iraq. There are complaints of equipment shortages, but nothing like what I experienced in the field when I was handed K-rations from who knows what warehouse corner from which I pulled a 10-pack of Lucky Strike Green cigarets which had not been manufactured since the Korean War.

    Happily, the guys in my squad all agreed they were pretty good smokes LOL It was also a very metaphysical bonding moment with our forebears and fathers. First Nations are right: tobacco is magic.

  154. Walt O'Bruin says:

    What was weird were the ashes were black, not like today. It’s because of today’s additives. It’s a lot like why people look so different from our forebears: pastries and breads if they used chemical leavening back in the day they used ammonium bicarbonate. Now sodium bicarbonate is used. Complex ammonia compounds of a biological nature are metabolized with ease, sodium just stops your ticker. The people of the Forties were much shorter, but they were stronger, as a rule, I think. It was also a more physical world then, a world then over which people individually were less shy to exercise personal command. They had no choice but to do so.

  155. memory vault says:


    Update on the weather report – just in:

    Police have now closed part of the Whittlesea-Kinglake Road due to snow.

    Now that IS unprecedented izen – it’s never happened before, not even in winter, not even during those cyclical cooling periods that don’t exist anywhere but in the historical data.

  156. Walt the oompah lumpah bear as for short that is a high carbohydrate poor meat diet. Us country folks have always been taller but that might be the viking in me or the fact we got to eat meat.

  157. Walt the tin man bear…. so ammonia is good for you so is that why they inject burgers in a well known burger chain with bleach.

  158. Blackswan says:

    G’day Crown

    Is that the burger that even bacteria reject? Refuse to go mouldy even after months or years. Now THAT’s a shelf-life.

  159. Blackswan the very same, I’m sure they wouldn’t put it in the food if it wasn’t safe would they. I mean no politicians got paid off to allow them to do this would they.

  160. Blackswan says:


    In Australia we currently have the visiting Canadian Dr David Suzuki (flogging his latest book as usual) and he’s been hitting the air-waves (ABC Radio & TV) telling us the damage we’re doing to the planet. I don’t disagree with him in terms of plastics/toxins in the food-chain etc.

    He said the average person from North America (and probably Australia) is walking around with at least a pound weight of dissolved plastic in our blood and tissue. How’s your pound ‘o’ plastic doing? I think gravity has affected mine – I’m probably sitting on it.

    He harped on and on about over-population, reducing population, not enough food for the teeming billions etc etc, but at no point did he suggest exactly what he proposed to do about it. At no point did the “interviewing” ABC person ever bother to ask him.

    Just a whole lot more of the grinding “feed ’em the message – feed ’em the message”.

  161. Just woke up from the first nightmare I have had in awhile. I dreamt an asteroid was heading toward Earth, a big ‘un.

    A chunk of ceiling plaster had loosened and conked me one just as I woke up. LOL

  162. Ozboy says:

    Call it a weakness on my part. But that picture of William Connolley at the head of the current JD thread brings to mind one of my favourite (and very few) words of German:


    Pointy and any other germanophones will know what I mean. For the rest of us, it literally translates as a face that cries out for a fist in it.

    On another note, while I’m a little shy of posting pictures of myself, having just brought in another load of wood, I found myself covered in a thick layer of ice; rather like a Scandinavian Christmas tree. Mrs Oz says I looked quite funny. This weather really is crazy.

  163. Blackswan says:

    Nightmare Bear

    How big was the chunk? You OK? Can you see your upstairs neighbours?

  164. Blackswan says:

    Ozboy….looking like a Christmas tree?

    A couple of weeks before summer? Surely you jest. Our road weather alerts and snow closing them down to 300 metres must be a figment of our imaginations….according to the Climate Hysterics.

  165. memory vault says:


    A few weeks ago while I was sojourning in Royal Perth Hospital Intensive Care, some nice people stuck a wire with a camera on the end up a vein from my groin up through my insides, eventually all the way to the carotid artery in my neck.

    I got to watch it all on a screen – I saw lots of keen stuff, especially around and in my heart – but no plastic.

    I guess those nice doctors and nurses must have already seen the Dr Suzuki lecture about plastic, and must have decided I was deprived, not having any and all , cos they put a little piece of it in my neck so my artery would stay open and blood could get to my brain again which was a nice experience.

    Now I feel twenty years younger and that bit of plastic wouldn’t have even weighed half an ounce.

    Did Dr Suzuki mention where the other 15+ ounces should go?

  166. memory vault says:

    Maybe we should let the late George Carlin have the last word?

    Posted before, I think, but always worth a replay

  167. Blackswan says:


    You do some very weird stuff to make your trips “interesting”. O’Bruin’s odd synchronicity going on somewhere – it was shortly before you and I embarked on our respective trips that Walt warned of odd things happening in peoples’ necks, any pains and such should be checked out.

    Does that mean you have bionic bits now?

    Sheesh, between you and your boots, Oz wanting to shove Connolley’s face in, and me doing my block lately, the descriptions of Wild Colonials isn’t far off the mark.

    PS Reeeal glad you’re here.

  168. memory vault says:


    Best bit was when they shoved a great big tube down my neck so they could stick an ultrasound in my stomach and have a look at my heart from the underside. Sort of the medical equivalent of putting a car up on a hoist and walking around underneath.

    Got to admit to feeling a bit sorry for myself for a while, but then the old fella next to me got pneumonia and they vacuumed out his lungs – literally.

    After that I considered myself quite lucky.

  169. Blackswan says:

    PPS – Mlpinaus (Marcus) in SA reckons he’s prone to “cranky” too. Guess none of us are too partial to rip-off merchants, and lying Politicians.

  170. memory vault says:


    I’ve got something called a “stent” in my left carotid artery – just a bit of plastic pipe really with some rubber grommets sewn in as stiffeners.

    Not sure if that qualifies as “bionic” or not.

    Sure beats the hell out of feeling dizzy each time I stand up though.

  171. Blackswan says:


    No wonder you must be feeling especially good to be home. Even the sight of a hospital turns me up, let alone contemplating what actually goes on in there. Still, for all that, they brought you back so it’s not all bad.

  172. memory vault says:


    Sorry but I can’t join you and Oz and Marcus in being “cranky”. I have to avoid all forms of physical and emotional excitement and stress for another month.

    Thumper is marking the days off a calendar.

  173. Blackswan says:

    Dizzy? Oh. I thought that was my blood pressure.

  174. Blackswan says:

    We sound like a pair of old codgers.

    Thumper’s done such a great job – say G’day for me.

  175. memory vault says:


    I was treated for high blood pressure for six years – what the doctors call “essential hypertension” – “essential” cos they didn’t have a bloody clue what was causing it.

    Turns out it was all that was keeping me alive – as my carotids slowly closed up my heart responded by increasing the pressure. Unfortunately, as with all pressurised systems there was a fail point – I was just lucky.

    Apparently it’s not all that uncommon. So if you feel dizzy when you stand up, and you’re being treated for “essential hypertension” I would suggest you get an ultrasound of your carotids poste haste.

    PS – it’s done from the outside – they don’t stick anything “into” you. And in my experience all ultrasound operators are nubile young things fresh out of uni who don’t do up the top buttons of their blouses and spend a lot of time leaning over you.

    Hey – I didn’t say it was all bad.

  176. memoryvault well you have joined Robert A Heinlein in a procedure a notable SciFi writer who prior to his surgery wrote some very weird novels. Avoid margarine.

  177. memory vault says:


    I’ve read and enjoyed Heinlein and margarine is a banned substance in Thumper’s kitchen – along with all other processed fake stuff.

  178. Amerloque says:

    As on yesterday, I tried to post a comment to this latest thread.

    Clicked, and a screen popped up and said “Your comment must be approved by a moderator before you can post here.”

    Happened again just now.

    Looks like it’s really full-fledged censorship !

    Here is the comment:


    Are you aware of Everything that is caused by Global Warming ? Are you sure? (grin)

    Warmlist is a complete list of things caused by global warming.

    The site’s stated mission is to expose all the “scares, scams, junk, panics and flummery cooked up by the media, politicians, bureaucrats and so-called scientists and others that try to confuse the public with wrong numbers”

    acne and agricultural land increase
    cold spells, giant squid migrate, gingerbread houses collapse, street crime to increase, subsidence, suicide, swordfish in the Baltic, Tabasco tragedy, winters in Britain colder, winter in Britain dead, witchcraft executions,
    wolverine decline, zebra mussel threat, zoonotic diseases …..

    Here is a site that offers over 600 links to what greeny catastrophist eco-fascists are predicting.


    Now is not the time to let up ! ! !


  179. Amerloque says:

    “this latest thread”
    JD’s latest thread over on the DT !

    Sorry, Oz !

  180. izen says:

    @-thendisnighnot says: October 16, 2010 at 11:57 am
    “.. I’m surprised nobody else seems to have noticed the old chestnut re “if you give equal credence to sceptics of CAGW why not give it to God botherers, creationists etc” Absolute unadulterated nonsence why? well for a start if these people have the chance to voice their opinions on evolution it isn’t going to cost the taxpayers of the west multi-trillion $’s!!!!!!”

    So your criteria for calling the science into question is not the credibility of the science, but the cost of its policy implications.

    You are probably right in the sense that historically that is how things have worked. When science found good scientific reasons for the control of asbestos, lead (and other heavy metals), CFCs, acid rain, particulates, DDT, – even tobacco, there was concerted pressure to question the science from the interests that were profiting from the use of those substances.

    It would seem that the urgency and legitimacy of any scientific warning is questioned and opposed in proportion to the cost of implementing the required action.

  181. Blackswan says:

    How’s this for a positive attitude to life?

    A pirate walks into a bar and the bartender says, “Hey, I haven’t seen you in a while. What happened, you look terrible!”

    “What do you mean?” the pirate replies, “I’m fine.”

    The bartender says, “But what about that wooden leg? You didn’t have that before.”

    “Well,” says the pirate, “We were in a battle at sea and a cannon ball hit my leg but the surgeon fixed me up, and I’m fine, really.”

    “Yeah,” says the bartender, “But what about that hook? Last time I saw you, you had both hands.”

    “Well,” says the pirate, “We were in another battle and we boarded the enemy ship. I was in a sword fight and my hand was cut off but the surgeon fixed me up with this hook, and I feel great, really.”

    “Oh,” says the bartender, “What about that eye patch? Last time you were in here you had both eyes.”

    “Well,” says the pirate, “One day when we were at sea, some birds were flying over the ship. I looked up, and one of them shat in my eye.”

    “So?” replied the bartender, “what happened? You couldn’t have lost an eye just from some bird crap!”

    “Well,” says the pirate, “I really wasn’t used to the hook yet.”

  182. Blackswan says:

    It would seem that the urgency and legitimacy of any scientific warning is questioned and opposed in proportion to the degree of Fraud, Corruption and Unjustifiable Taxation that is levied against Free Citizens.

  183. Edward says:


    Gday/evening mate,

    “It would seem that the urgency and legitimacy of any scientific warning is questioned and opposed in proportion to the degree of Fraud, Corruption and Unjustifiable Taxation that is levied against Free Citizens.”

    Good points, what really irks me, is the fact that out of the western world only really us in Britain, the Kiwis and the Politburo in Brussels (the Germans, the French backed off) have really gone for this tax and madness to alleviate a non existent problem.
    The States have knocked their Cap’n’trade crap on the head.

    So why us? (+Kiwiland) Are we the most stupid nation(s) on this Earth??

    Or the most gullible electorate(s)?


  184. Blackswan says:

    G’day Ed

    Seems it’s the most rabid Socialist/Left Govts that are exercising the greatest control/con/fraud over their citizenry. It remains to be seen how our Labor/Green Coalition flex their new-found muscles in the Parliament.

  185. NoIdea says:

    ~@Izen~ at 9:52 am

    I was till here; I am surprised you haven’t noticed the Big Lies post I did.
    I have read in a few places (a while back I have no links to hand) that the Sun used to have only 70% of the output it does now (approx 4.5 Billion years ago). I have also seen that the Earth used to have a rotational rate that would give us 15 hour days (approx 4 Billion years ago).

    If we had a weaker sun and a faster spinning earth in the past (which would explain those pesky Ice ages when CO2 levels where much higher than today) Then it becomes a bit trickier to explain why the majority of earths existence has been much warmer than today.

    I think that your answer that it was Sun that drove the climatic changes in previous interglacials is spot on.

    Why do you think it is so different this time?


  186. NoIdea says:



  187. memory vault says:

    No Idea

    izen only “notices” that which is convenient for him to “notice”.

    I “notice” he failed to “notice” my weather report a couple of weeks ago, and I “notice” he failed to “notice” today’s update. Not to mention failing to “notice” the utter ineptness of his much revered MET Office also mentioned earlier today.

    Talk about selective tunnel vision.

  188. thendisnighnot says:

    Isen says….”So your criteria for calling the science into question is not the credibility of the science, but the cost of its policy implications” How very typical I didn’t say that at all in any way shape or form. The context was that you were comparing giving assorted God botherers equal air time with evolutionary science and as I and i think MV or BlackSwan pointed out the conclusion of creationists etc having such air time wouldn’t result in multi-million $’s being spent!!! But of course you knew that . You are so transparently disengenuous its laughable! You and your fellow cultists do this each and every time….. i.e. change the subject, make false assumptions and deliberately misconstrue what people are actually saying either that or your just thick!

  189. Blackswan says:

    thendisnighnot says:
    October 16, 2010 at 8:28 pm
    “You are so transparently disengenuous its laughable! You and your fellow cultists do this each and every time….. i.e. change the subject, make false assumptions and deliberately misconstrue what people are actually saying either that or your just thick!”

    Let’s just say…….all of the above.

    Spot on!

  190. thendisnighnot says:

    and another thing why do have such an obsession with creationists etc? What possible harm could their beliefs do to you or yours? Every time anybody questions your crede all you can do is compare them to creationists etc. Personally I don’t believe in anything they do but i fully respect their right to have those beliefs/opinions because as far as i can see their beliefs/opinions have about as much basis in FACT as yours!! If you can show me one just one incontravertable FACT from your warmist mantra I’ll eat my hat and bare my arse on Nanjing Xi Lu (Locusts will know where i mean).

    PS Hows Plan B coming along or are you running out of memory on your pc with all the cutting & pasting??

  191. memory vault says:



    A cultist?

    Changing subjects -making false assumptions – deliberately misconstruing what people say?

    OUR izen?


    I’m going to be generous and stick with he’s just thick.

  192. Blackswan says:

    …as a brick!

  193. Locusts & Wild Honey says:

    Folks, I’ve moved this piece to Locusts’ China Blog under Rare Scribbling – or just click here – Oz

  194. izen says:

    @-NoIdea says: October 16, 2010 at 7:36 pm
    “I think that your answer that it was Sun that drove the climatic changes in previous interglacials is spot on.
    Why do you think it is so different this time?”

    Because we are several thousand years PAST the glacial-interstadial transition when temperatures and CO2 levels rise and ice cover falls.
    No previous glacial cycle shows a comparable mid-term bump in temperatures that I am aware of. Certainly no previous glacial cycle shows a rise in CO2 levels so high, or so long after the warming transition.
    The CO2 level is heading for territory it has not occupied for over 15 MILLION years (a clue to why it was much warmer in past eons?), Something quite unlike previous solar-driven climate change is happening, much more like the temperature excursions that accompanied major tectonic events in which massive eruptions (Siberian traps) pushed up CO2 levels.

    Check out Richard Alley for a good insight into climate over deep time.

  195. izen says:

    Great post Locust, neat writing to convey the experience.

    It would seem from the present Tasmanian weather that the climatologists are indulging in post-normal science when they predict a ‘Seasonal Warming effect’.
    The hypothesis that the very small increases in the altitude and duration of daily sunlight can alter the climate is refuted by the last few weeks of weather.
    In just a few days the temperature has dropped by around 5degC in complete opposition to the supposed ‘seasonal warming’. Looking back at the historical record shows this is a common feature, previous Tasmanian Octobers show a clear cyclic climate pattern with warming and cooling cycles of sederal days that completely dominate the theoretical seasonal trend.
    Now is not the time to give up, the psuedo-scientists that predict ‘summer’ when the climate is clearly cooling are part of a marxist-suncream conspiracy to alter our political future…
    -sarc off-

    Meanwhile, as Roy Spencer seems curiously reluctant to admit, it is the warmest September globally in the UAH satellite record.
    Perhaps you would prefer the NOAA assessment that puts last month around the middle of the last decade in terms of global temperature.
    So despite a cooling La Nina event and a record low solar activity this year is STILL warmer than every year of the 1980s.
    Or any decade for the last 5 centuries at least.

    Of course, the rest of the year may cool rapidly (as it did in 1998) and next month/year may be colder than this one.
    Which just like the Tasmanian weather would demonstrate ‘cycles’ and variation, but does not refute the basic climate hypothesis that if you increase the energy in, it gets warmer.

  196. Blackswan says:

    Locusts & Wild Honey says:
    October 16, 2010 at 9:34 pm

    Risky business being man-on-the-spot.

    A few years ago Australia received a visit from a Free-Tibet activist. The Chinese Govt’s vitriolic protests fell on deaf ears and she was welcomed here. The TV news reports showed many hundreds of Chinese protesters thronging the streets of Canberra, all of whom wore red T-shirts, most of whom carried huge banners, all feverishly waving small Chinese flags.

    As the camera panned along the crowds spilling from the kerb, nary a white face to be seen. Hundreds of students came on dozens of coaches into the Capital from Sydney and Melbourne, as well as the hundreds attending Canberra universities.

    A spontaneous outburst from proud Chinese students living in Australia? Hardly.

    A carefully orchestrated mob-protest from a foreign Govt, demonstrating against our Govt’s policies on our own soil, using our police forces to control them, closing roads, disrupting traffic.

    The cameras revealed those twisted angry faces you described, screaming abuse at a guest in our country.

    You sure do like living “on the edge”.

    Not this little black duck, er, swan. And you’re welcome to it.

  197. izen says:

    thendisnighnot says: October 16, 2010 at 8:28 pm
    “Isen says….”So your criteria for calling the science into question is not the credibility of the science, but the cost of its policy implications” How very typical I didn’t say that at all in any way shape or form. … You are so transparently disengenuous its laughable! You and your fellow cultists do this each and every time….. i.e. change the subject, make false assumptions and deliberately misconstrue what people are actually saying either that or your just thick!”

    Okay, then if the cost of the policy implications is not a factor as you implied with –
    “…as I and i think MV or BlackSwan pointed out the conclusion of creationists etc having such air time wouldn’t result in multi-million $’s being spent!!”
    Then on what criteria WOULD you judge reporting of climate science to be ‘fair and balanced’.
    Does this differ in any way from the criteria you would apply to other science subjects like plate tectonics or vaccination?

  198. Locusts & Wild Honey says:


    I always dreamt of being a war reporter when I was younger, but got discouraged by the heaving journalism courses in the UK. I love danger, as long as I don’t get hurt. I need to remember to stop being so sarcastic though, telling people I was Japanese really was not very wise.

    I may head back in a bit, I might be missing some quality beered up action.

  199. Blackswan says:


    As you’re now an expert on Tasmanian weather, (don’t make me puke, I enjoyed my dinner) maybe you can explain why this Antarctic blast extended way up into Queensland accompanied by heavy snow in the mountains, extensive flooding and storm activity.

    Oh, don’t tell me – Global Warming.

    I’ve lived here (except for a few years) for three decades and none of our friends, neighbours or locals can remember the likes of the cold and rain we’ve experienced in the last few years.

    Record cold temps not seen in 70 years. CAGW??

    Go peddle your stupid statistics elsewhere. You are a fool.

  200. Pointman says:

    Be careful little locust, mobs tend to tip from fun to ugly and very quickly too. Not even John the Baptist will save you then …


  201. Blackswan says:

    Locusts & Wild Honey says:
    October 16, 2010 at 10:24 pm

    You should see if you can get a copy of a book, “One Crowded Hour” written by Australian journalist Tim Bowden, a Tasmanian.

    It about the life and death of Neil Davis, Combat Cameraman, another Tasmanian.

    He filmed extensively throughout the Vietnam war as well as Cambodia and Laos.

    He survived all that, only to meet his end filming an attempted coup on the streets of Bangkok. He filmed his own death. We watched his film on TV – the gun turret on a tank swivels inexorably towards him, he stands his ground, a machine gun opens fire, he collapses and drops his still-running camera which films his life-blood running away across the sidewalk.

    “The story of Neil Davis shows that ‘One Crowded Hour of glorious life’ is indeed ‘worth an age without a name’.”

    Be careful what you wish for Locusts.

  202. Locusts & Wild Honey says:


    Yes. I know. Being the only foreigner there, I was very aware of that.

    The lengths I go for the Ozblog…

    In the same city 11 years ago, after the US bombing of Belgrade Chinese Embassy, anyone with a white face was chased down the street. No matter how good my Chinese is, I will always be an “other”. It is impossible to forget that.

  203. Pointman says:

    BTW Locusts, I really enjoyed your piece but be careful mate.


  204. izen says:

    thendisnighnot says: October 16, 2010 at 8:46 pm
    “…and another thing why do have such an obsession with creationists etc? What possible harm could their beliefs do to you or yours?

    They deny and devalue the reliability of science, a proven human utility, not through any rational cause but because of ideological/religious belief.

    Quote-” If you can show me one just one incontravertable FACT from your warmist mantra I’ll eat my hat and bare my arse on Nanjing Xi Lu ”

    I suspect we could get into an interminable argument about what is a fact, and what is part of the AGW theory ‘mantra’.
    But starting from the basics –

    John Tyndall’s measurement of the radiative absorption of CO2 –

    Keelings measurement of rising CO2 –

    Click to access Keeling_etal_Nature1995.pdf

    Measured downwelling radiation from the increased CO2 –

    I doubt the Chinese would welcome you mooning, I’ll settle for the hat eating.

  205. Locusts & Wild Honey says:


    Better than a life on the dole. Still being fairly young, I hope to have some stories to tell when I’m old. There are no stories without risk!

  206. Pointman says:

    Blackswan says:
    October 16, 2010 at 10:44 pm

    Combat and other action photographers developed the knack of taking picture without looking through the viewfinder at the subject because to whoever you’re snapping, the camera can easily look like a weapon being pointed at them.


  207. Locusts & Wild Honey says:


    The Chinese always welcome me mooning, as they never expected that hair could grow there…

  208. fenbeagle says:

    Thank you Locusts. But as Pointman said……. Please be careful!

  209. izen says:

    @-Blackswan says: October 16, 2010 at 10:27 pm
    “I’ve lived here (except for a few years) for three decades and none of our friends, neighbours or locals can remember the likes of the cold and rain we’ve experienced in the last few years.”

    Obviously the direct personal experience, and that of your neighbors and locals negates any careful continuous record kept by meteorologists, or the more recent satellite measurements.
    If only this approach was used more widely all those weatherstation problems with UHI effects, instrument and location changes would be eliminated, just ask the oldest locals….

    Actually Tasmanian climate is not likely to change much, the sea island effect will stabilise that, weather variations are not so certain. All that extra water vapour in the air from the higher global temperatures has to go somewhere.

  210. Blackswan says:


    And you do write a great story. I’m amazed at your apparent detachment from the human tide around you. Extraordinary. A Big Mac?

    Maybe you experience some sort of out-of-body experience, watching yourself being swept along with that tide, seemingly oblivious to any threat to yourself. Can’t relate to that at all. Swans must have a well-developed survival instinct.

    Maybe your innate curiosity is the key.

    Perhaps a vantage point as an observer rather than as a participant might be prudent. Take care of yourself and thanks for posting on LG.

  211. Pointman says:

    Face it Swan, your experiences with regard to weather merely count as data. We can’t trust our senses. The models are what’s important …


  212. Blackswan says:


    “careful continuous record kept by meteorologists, or the more recent satellite measurements.”

    Surely you jest.

    Are these the records of the stations sited within metres of bitumen roads, brick buildings and air-conditioning exhausts, always rounded up to the nearest degree?

    Are these the satellite “records” so corrupted by readings of 6 or 700 degrees C but still fed into your computer models? So compromised that the data was taken off the web-sites?

    Yeah right.

  213. Blackswan says:

    Gee Pointy,

    I’m so confuuuused? Obviously we should be wearing Hawaiian shirts and drinking pineapple daiquiris.

  214. Locusts & Wild Honey says:


    It was necessary to be in the middle of the crowd to understand what was going on. That exposed me. I was very conscious of that, but when thousands of people swamp around you chanting “Long live China”, and I forgot to mention, shouting Chairman Mao slogans, the parallels were immediate, and shocking. Nobody in England would ever cry Long Live England.

    All major revolutions in China in the last hundred years have started with students. Some of them succeeded, some of them, like the Cultural Revolution and the Tiananmen Incident ended in very bad things.

    It was impossible to submerge myself in the atmosphere; I am an “other”. This kind of otherness is impossible to describe to those that have not experienced it.

    Young people by nature do not tend to have a good handle on historical trends; those who are prevented from learning about their own recent history even more so.

    I was in that crowd, and I was nervous to some extent. I was reassured that the hate was directed against fellow yellow faces and not white faces. Hate of the Japanese is also Government sanctioned, my exchanges with the police confirmed that. Though the demonstration was officially banned, the police were enjoying themselves. They made no attempt to stop any of the destruction.

    The vast majority of those involved were young, fresh faced, innocent and ignorant. And after the glass went flying the more sensitive ones couldn’t understand quite what went wrong.

    If this had been a protest against America, I would have made myself very scarce, very very early on.

  215. Pointman says:

    A little wing for the Swan.


  216. Blackswan says:


    That’s good to know, but it’s only a matter of time.

  217. Blackswan says:

    Thanks Pointman.

    Wouldn’t you love to go over to the Corrs’ house for a big Sunday roast with a little sing-a-long for afters? All that talent in one family. Must drive ’em mad – their visitors must never go home.

  218. Blackswan says:


    Perhaps not.

  219. Pointman says:

    Blackswan says:
    October 16, 2010 at 11:49 pm

    They’d need a block and tackle to get me out …


  220. Blackswan says:

    With that refrain still in my head, I’ll pop off to bed – Goodnight.

  221. memory vault says:


    For once, just try and consider the disconnect between the cultist dogma you are trying to push here, and the observable facts.

    You and a bunch of “climate scientists”, armed with computer models constructed by known liars and calibrated to a farcical and discredited “hockey-stick” graph, based on surface data shown to be “tampered with”, and supported by satellite data that doesn’t actually measure “temperature” but rather “interprets” other data calibrated and collated and computer adjusted by the same “climate scientists” and calibrated against the same “hockey-stick” falsified data, say it’s the “hottest year on record”.

    That’s what you and the other mass-murderers are trying to sell us as “consensus science”.

    Meanwhile, over most of the world, northern and southern hemisphere, spring and autumn, people are freezing their butts off. That’s the observable fact for most of us.

    Don’t you at least catch a glimmer of the credibility problem you’re facing, izen? Haven’t you given at least an inkling of thought to how hard it’s going to be to sell your “hotter than ever” mantra to people who are freezing, and can’t pay their power bills because of the actions of people like you?

    Tell me what you think, izen.

    I’ve always been fascinated by the idea of how a mass-murderer’s mind could work.

  222. Locusts & Wild Honey says:

    Well, less people means more nature for those that are left; and I do enjoy the wilderness.

  223. memory vault says:

    Goodnight all.

    It’s past midnight here and the first time in eight weeks I’ve been allowed to stay up past 9.30pm.

    Much as I chaff against Thumper’s iron rules – she’s right. Right now I need my rest.

  224. memory vault says:

    That figures, grasshopper.

    Enjoy all the extra “nature”.

    Especially the spiders.

  225. Locusts & Wild Honey says:

    Thanks memory vault

    Keep them coming!

  226. Edward says:


    @Reading Locusts’ piece, I think you are a lucky lad – IMHO.

    I wouldn’t make jokes about being Japanese in the middle of an angry Chinese demonstrators shouting for Japan to remove itself from Asia.
    And come to think of it, that statement: Japan out of Asia?………….err WTF?

    I’ve been in some big crowd ‘situations’ it can turn violent and very quickly and for no apparent reason, a mob has a certain indeterminate energy, hysteria and mania drive the focus, all it takes is one small incident for the ‘other’ side of mankind’s nature to appear and then we are back to the caveman instinct (sweetness and light and peaceful demonstration – into, angry mob baying for blood) – I’ve seen it at first hand, best thing to do then is to, ‘beat’ the retreat.

    Shakespeare, always took time to ridicule the ‘herd mentality’ and he despised the mob, I hold the same opinion.

    In the West, I think the perception is that China, is one harmonised and reasonably contented mass.
    Looking at the problems in the North Western Provinces and in Tibet and wondering about other snippets, I wonder – the Japanese are an easy target for the Chinese (and I am aware of the atrocities in the thirties perpetrated by the Japanese) there is much history between the two nations, this fishing boat rumpus is not helping and the subs’ going to Hainan is more to the point.

    But demo’s against the Japanese: are there cracks beginning to show in the fabric of the great economic miracle? Like I say, Japan is an easy target, is it being fermented by ‘the people’ or others…..?

    There is unemployment and uncertainty everywhere but, the layoffs in China have been on a massive scale – have they not?

    Is this the start of a new peoples revolution? From small incidents bigger ones grow.

    Could the (Chinese Communist/P.R.C. Red Army) authorities cope with civil unrest?

    @MM-idiot, lord! you do rat’ on lass, have you been, or are you a Quango civil servant?

  227. Amerloque says:

    Hi GirdingForBattle Bear !
    Hi Pointman !

    Slept on this and here is our thinking. I say “our” because Mme Amerloque is quintessentially French, and I’ve roped her in on this a bit. IMHO, the French are the best in the world at analysis. Of course, history tells us that subsequent execution far too frequently leaves a helluva lot to be desired. (grin) But analyse – oui !

    First of all let’s take a look at some of the messages posted to here. I’ve tried to snip and paste relevant passages here so that any readers coming across this posting might be able to figure out what’s going on without having to go back through several hundred messages to piece the story, at least what we understand of it, together. (grin)

    We began with

    “(Disclaimer of liability: Amerloque is NOT advocating or recommending purchase of or sales of the puts and calls referred to here in any way, shape or form. Caveat Emptor !)”


    Hi Pointman !
    on October 16, 2010 at 3:31 am

    /// In passing, I have to endorse Amer’s disclaimer. Options trading is high risk but linking it to what is essentially international arbitrage, is well into Captain Insano territory. People a lot smarter than Brainiac have tried it and suffered the consequences. I’m thinking specifically of a bunch called LTCM ///

    Hi Philosophical Bear
    On October 16, 2010 at 5:09 am

    /// I am wondering if there is any enthusiasm at this blog for organizing a disinvestment campaign in carbon offsets. It didn’t work so hot for the greentard leftard creepos who pushed for Israel disinvestment in the States a few years back: that led to one of the biggest buy-in’s on the Tel Aviv Stock Exchange in their history LOL
    To agitate for that is perfectly legal and morally right. Think of all the pensioners whose life savings we could rescue from certain disaster and subsequent penury. ///

    Philosophical Bear says:
    October 16, 2010 at 5:23 am

    ///Plus all carbon trades are voluntary only by law since Feb 2008. So a vigorous disinvestment campaign would do the trick, I fink.
    Let’s put the diss in disinvestment.///

    Philosophical Bear says:
    October 16, 2010 at 5:27 am

    /// So how do I properly phrase a disinvestment campaign cut and paste post, I wonder. Let’s sort out the greentard posting schedule so we can plan ahead, too. it does follow a certain periodicity.///

    It’s immediately clear that a disinvestment campaign is certainly possible. One only has to look at what happened post-War in the Southern Rhodesia, Republic of South Africa, and Shell Oil, and, nowadays, churches of various denominations withdrawing their monies from “immoral” investments and interests.

    In looking at how the disinvestment campaigns were organized, there seem to be two directions. The first is calling for disinvestment in a given company (e.g., Shell or Nestlé), or in a given country (e.g.) RSA. The second route is to call for disinvestment in a group of companies, all of which have something in common (e.g. “immorality”). In this case the shared immoral characteristic is, of course, the AGW scam.

    While calling for disinvestment in a given company might be psychologically suitable and satisfying, there is one very real danger: the targeted company will obviously react and, if a normal company, will simply adopt the usual “best defense is attack” position. The CEO and/or COO simply tell the legal beagles to see what they can a) find out to put a stop to the campaign and b) get on with putting a stop to it. A publicly open position will be adopted, and the company will ask its allies, friends, and contractor governments to step in and give it an occult (?) hand. One would certainly not want to finish up like Ken Saro-Wiwa.

    So it seems obvious that any disinvestment campaign will target a group of companies. Selecting the group of companies will obviously be in accordance with the campaign objectives (Bear – you’ve made a great start, IMHO). There will be an added bonus: the companies will have to form a group of their own, sit down, hash out a strategy, finance it, and carry it out – together. Their reaction time is thus far longer which, naturally, plays into the hands of any well-organized disinvestment group.

    Calling for disinvestment in a list of companies is not the same as casually discussing or recommending specific shorts, puts, and calls, nor is it the same as speaking of an individual stock or financial product in the praiseworthy or critical terms. That’s why a quickie disclaimer should be hammered out and posted in every message / mailing / posting going out from a site such as this one.

    I say posted because Internet will be clearly be the weapon of choice: that’s why we’re discussing this. (grin) No longer is it possible to assemble a group of 200,000 people and march in relative safety through the streets of a big city. One wouldn’t like to be doing it anyway, since it would be far too easy for a targeted company – which risks losing a bundle – to arrange the presence of a giftladen knapsack or two along the parade route.

    Another thing one shouldn’t be doing in the age of the Internet, obviously: renting out a grubby office somewhere on the wrong side of the tracks, obtaining a tatty Mimeograph machine and stencils, and summoning like-minded individuals for flyer folding and envelope stuffing. Yet … there will be a bit of room for sending direct letters by snailmail to possible natural allies, political representatives in Congress and/or Parliament, religious figures (Pope Benedict XVI, e.g.) , as well as faxing. Not everyone uses Internet on a daily basis. How many individuals seated on boards of directors use e-mail ? It’s far too easy to not receive a given e-mail. (grin) We all know that. (re-grin) If the powers that be decided to “review / refine / improve” the Internet, classical means of communication will be of use. It takes more time than one thinks to set it up and get it running smoothly.

    So, what do we need, at a minimum, off the top of our head ?

    Choose objectives.
    Choose at least two slogans.
    Choose a time frame.
    Start small and grow.
    Assign tasks.
    Don’t take any public money under any circumstances.
    Concentrate on execution.

    In so far as slogans go, we spent a fuckava lot of time on this in ’63. We finally came up with:

    “Bring ’em home !” ( which inevitably gave rise to questions which raised awareness: who ? where are they ? why ? what are they doing there ? where the f-k is there, anyway ?)

    “Stop the war !” (questions: wtf ? what war ? where ? why ? who’s fighting ?)

    I’ll stop here and wait for some agreement or abuse. (grin)

    Now is not the time to let up.


  228. Blarney Bear says:

    Blackswan says:
    October 16, 2010 at 4:13 pm

    No, that was a blarney fable for Izen’s benefit. Trying the concept on for size. Problem is, people aren’t that sensitive to imaginative stretches. Metaphor, simile, allegory, and genuine irony are lost on the literalist present. Greentards are numbingly humourless to the point of zombiedom. They think mockery and taunts solely are of that which humour consists.

    Now watch a huge space stone roar through the atmosphere to hit Earth tomorrow and take out Europe.

    MV, I lost a good buddy in Nov 09 to carotid artery blockage. 46 years old he was, with two strapping sons who just had reached their majority, one starting college. It sneaks up on one.

    I’ve decided to craft a few e-mails to organizations which might be interested in a carbon fraud disinvestment campaign. I need to get paid for the work though. This is ridiculous to have to fend off unrelenting human stupidity with which the state ought to be dealing vigorously without compensation. Manufacturing and distributing terrorist propaganda is a clearly defined violation of Patriot Acts I and II. Warmlist is a comprehensive listing of that form of coercive and fraud-funding terrorism which matches violation criteria exactly and precisely. There is likewise no such equivalent realist counter-propaganda which exists that states what shall happen in the event Splattergaters’ dreams of destroying the West’s economies come true except to observe the various and sundry historically well-precedented consequences of permanently damaged national economies. If a Conservative TV advertisement attempted to get across a point showing exploding kiddies, the entire production team, the scriptwriter and the people who paid for it would be in jail almost immediately.

  229. Green Sand says:

    Hi Oz, this is OT but maybe I can get away under the “British Fair Play” heading.

    GreenerEnergyExpert.co.uk appear to think that the government “have plans to slash the FiT payments for new Solar Installations”. Which is what should be done, but this obviously does not suit GreenerEnergy so they are running a poll the results of which:-

    “will be passed to the decision makers at the highest level and we can only hope they will take on board the positive nature of the overwhelming response we have enjoyed so far!”

    Have a visit, cast your vote and maybe leave a comment with their Chatmaster – “Overlord and Webmaster”


  230. Blarney Bear says:

    The entire pressure on people to “go green” has all the characteristics of the loan shark who says, “If you don’t do things my way, I’ll break your arm.” I do not also see how NIMBY’s can be exempt from or should escape prosecution for extortion, coercion, and racketeering relative to the all the power plant construction projects they have successfully destroyed globally. Corporations, if they conducted their affairs in like manner, would see their entire boards in prison posthaste.

  231. Blarney Bear says:

    Amerloque says:
    October 17, 2010 at 2:14 am

    Excellent thoughts, all. The sticky bits are the following:

    1. We are not up against corporations but rather up against quangos and not for profits, to include insurance companies, university departments, greentard associations, and pressure groups from the Left.

    2. We need therefor to choose our associates wisely. I favour approaching the US Chamber of Commerce and the utilities and the coal community as they want to get positive things done. They are not “againsters.” I am sick of againsters.

    3. If we are not proposing something which yields positive benefits to the majority, which we are at present, we are on the wrong track. Happy Mr. Policeman’s job is law enforcement, and to support them in prosecuting racketeers and extortionists is a positive aim. I don’t want the movement to turn into a career option, either. Once we get the job done, back to leading a real life for me.

    4. I have also to state that in real terms, protest movements do not work except anecdotally and locally. Protestors didn’t end Viet Nam, an internal rebellion against corruption both left and right within the US Federal government ended it, starting with Watergate. The biggest amphibious leapfrog invasion since Normandy of forces from South to North Vietnam was on track to happen almost immediately after Linebacker II and following the return of the POW’s. If anything, protesters hardened resistance. The reality was at the time, even just before Watergate, that the American people supported the effort in Viet Nam. That’s another reason againsterism is bloody stupid: it doesn’t work.

    5. What we are doing now is fun. A disinvestment campaign will not be, it will be work, tonnes of it.

    6. We really do need the firms and organizations I list above on our side because without a P. Eng. or other professional rating after own names, we are full of sh*t in real terms of cred when the bluff is called and we all go to court to sort things out.

  232. Blarney Bear says:

    I need to take a break for a couple of days respecting my writing work, too. It HAS to get done or I am sunk. I’ll be back with the results of my e-mails to the real players.

  233. manonthemoor says:

    A poll to defeat the green the green expenditure in the coming Uk spending review

    Extracted from the DT posts by ScouseBilly and greensand


    You know it makes sense


    57 minutes ago
    Recommended by
    3 people
    Should this green initiative be saved?

    Please vote NO


    26 minutes ago
    Scouse, before the scales were tipped:-

    The poll was 97% Yes, 3% No

    The reason for the 97% was the following email that was being sent out by GreenEnergyExpert:-


    As a Friend of A Shade Greener – Are you aware…?

    The Coalition Government may scrap this country’s whole Green initiative next Wednesday?

    This will affect you so have your say! NEXT WEEK WILL BE TOO LATE

    Click on the Logo below to VOTE NOW –

    This email was funded by A shade greener and Nationwide Solar in support of Greener Energy Expert – The discussion area for all things Green!
    Want to unsubscribe or change your details?”

    Note: as they only sent it to “a Friend” the poll would be stacked.

    Now the poll stands at 38% Yes, 62% No.

    With due ref to Amerloque, Now is not the time to let up

  234. Blackswan says:


    Further to your assertions earlier this thread wherein you professed your new-found expertise in Tasmanian weather….

    This current blast of Antarctic cold has impacted the whole of south-eastern Australia and is currently thundering across the Tasman Sea to New Zealand.

    Still, it should have zero impact there as NZ now has NO TEMPERATURE RECORDS so the ice and snow will not be felt at all. So corrupted was their data found to be, that nobody was willing to accept responsibility and thus the records have been scrapped.

    Meanwhile on mainland Australia, unlike Tasmania which you claim will have little CC effect since “the sea island effect will stabilise that”, widespread flooding, evacuations, snow, ice, cyclonic winds and temperatures AVERAGING 10 DEGS C BELOW NORMAL have wrought havoc, being declared an official disaster zone.

    Your explanation? “All that extra water vapour in the air from the higher global temperatures has to go somewhere.”

    This Front roared in directly from Antarctica you ninny. What kind of warm temperature ocean evaporation do you think is going on there? The place has been ice-bound for the last 7 or 8 months.

    Go away.

  235. Edward says:

    Blarney Bear says:
    October 17, 2010 at 3:01 am

    I shall look forward to the results of those emails sir, let us hope that, there is a positive response esteemed Bear.

    @Blackswan says:
    October 17, 2010 at 9:02 am

    Do I detect a little ‘devilment’, in between the lines there Swanny?
    You can take the man out of Tassie……but never take the Tassie (Devil) out of the Tasmanian!

    Good on yer Tassie lad!

  236. Pointman says:

    Blackswan says:
    October 17, 2010 at 9:02 am

    G’Day mate. Jeez, the weather down under sounds brutal. Something to warm your hearts.


  237. Amanda says:

    Pointman: ‘instead’ was not what I really meant. No need to reply, as I won’t see it.

  238. Blackswan says:

    G’day Ed

    Between the lines? Gee Ed, Ill have to try and be more forthright.

    I second your wishes on Bruin’s endeavours. Maybe he should simply bury his face in his hat for a couple of years, mumble some gibberish, call it “tongues”, a revelation from on high – no man-made climate change – a new religion is born, attracting huge subsidies, tax-free status and Bob’s yer Auntie. Sheesh, if he gets it on cable TV with all those “donations” that are bound to follow, he’ll be living in a palatial gated estate surrounded by a bevy of comely wenches, and he’ll be able to marry all of them!

    Good luck on your ideas Walt – it’ll be interesting to see the outcome.

    Manonthemoor’s heads-up on the tactics of the Green Hysterics in skewing polls is more of the same-ol’, same-ol’ methods they’ve always used. Any hint of the population-at-large having a say in anything swings the foot-soldiers into play, manning the phones, sending a tsunami of emails, throwing cash about.

    Wonder how the poll ends up.

  239. Blackswan says:

    Pointman says:
    October 17, 2010 at 10:05 am

    Not so bad today, just cold and drizzly.

    The poor mainland farmers, recently rejoicing over bumper Spring crops after a decade of drought, are now flooded watching their livestock and crops washed away.

    As Dorothea Mackellar wrote a hundred years ago……….

    I love a sunburnt country, a land of sweeping plains,
    Of ragged mountain ranges, of droughts and flooding rains.
    I love her far horizons, I love her jewel-sea,
    Her beauty and her terror – the wide brown land for me!

    I wonder what caused the drought and flooding rains in her day. Of course! Co2…

  240. Pointman says:

    Blackswan says:
    October 17, 2010 at 11:26 am

    Jenny Kissed Me by James Henry Leigh Hunt

    Jenny kissed me when we met,
    Jumping from the chair she sat in;
    Time, you thief, who love to get
    Sweets into your list, put that in!
    Say I’m weary, say I’m sad,
    Say that health and wealth have missed me,
    Say I’m growing old, but add,
    Jenny kissed me.


  241. Ozboy says:

    G’day All,

    Locusts’ account of the anti-Japanese riot deserved a separate discussion space, so I’ve opened a new thread for it. Meanwhile you can continue the current debate here.



  242. Damocles says:

    “perhaps he is giving this link so as to redefine himself”

    Perhaps he just saw it and shared it in the appropriate forum. Perhaps there isn’t a puerile agenda behind it. Perhaps you’re reading more in to things than is there. Perhaps you’ve been reading too much Captain Sherlock.

    Thanks for the backhanded compliment, Locusts, better than none at all I suppose.


  243. Locusts & Wild Honey says:

    No worries Dam!

Comments are closed.