Has Multiculturalism Failed?

It has, if you believe the words of German Chancellor Angela Merkel this week. Multikulti, the concept that we are now living side by side and are happy about it, she declared, has failed utterly.

For a modern German leader to even raise the issue is an indicator of how seriously the failure must appear to them. So today I’m going to dip LibertyGibbert’s toe into these potentially murky waters and pose the question: Is multiculturalism desirable?

Certainly, from the point of view of Libertarianism, there is nothing inherently wrong with people of different cultures living together side by side, provided each such culture accepts at a minimum to observe a Common Law, and commits to avoid impinging negatively upon the lives of all the others, within the framework of that Law. A bit of common sense and human understanding never goes astray either; getting to actually know thy neighbour, and even making friends with him, can actually have the effect of reducing the multikulti differences to the quaint and charming: clothing, food, markets, dancing and cultural festivals, and so on. I’ve seen just how wonderfully well that sort of multiculturalism can work in my country, as I’m sure most of you have as well: vive la difference!

The problem, of course, is when one (or more) of the component cultures reject the basic umbrella tenets of the host society, usually on the basis of religion. While I’m not condemning religion holus bolus, it’s certainly true that nothing serves the purposes of Totalitarianism better than fundamentalism of one flavour or another. When this happens, those cultural differences become badges of hostile allegience. This is what appears to have happened in Germany and other Western European nations.

Multiculturalism is not new; history abounds in examples where it has existed, with various degrees of success. Jews, to take the most obvious example, have lived in ghettoes of one form or another, in Gentile cities from time immemorial. The whole history of the Middle East and the Indian subcontinent has been one long experiment in multiculturalism. It can work, it has worked; it has also failed spectacularly.

I’d like to add one huge boilerplate disclaimer to this whole discussion: multiculturalism is not multiracialism. You all know my rule on that here, and I’ll have no hesitation in wiping any comments I consider even mildly racially offensive. It is legitimate, however, to question whether the modern Western multicultural experiment has failed. Should it be scrapped entirely, or can it somehow be successfully re-engineered?

Over to you.

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159 Responses to Has Multiculturalism Failed?

  1. Blackswan says:


    You have no idea. The majority of Australians have no idea of what is happening “under the radar” in this country, tacitly sanctioned by Govt on “multicultural” grounds.

    “Cultural diversity” is a catch-cry that justifies a great many practices previously unheard of here.

    A few years ago (I can’t remember in which paper I read it, can’t remember the names of the doctor or hospital involved) but I’ll never forget the article I saw on the quandary faced by the medical profession in dealing with foreign cultures in OZ. A doctor was justifying why his hospital had decided to participate in the female genital mutilation of children.

    He said that they’d had so many patients with serious infections and injuries from such backyard procedures (usually performed by Grannies and Aunties) that they decided it was more “prudent” for the hospital to accept that such practices were an inevitable part of cultural and religious beliefs, and for the hospital to willingly perform “minor, harmless and easily reversible procedures” would protect the childrens health and safety and “satisfy” the parents’ and relatives’ religious and cultural “demands” – all paid for by taxpayer-funded Medicare.

    That sort of thing is below the water-line on the iceberg that is multiculturalism.

    A close relative is involved in the provision of “services” in the Welfare Industry, and it’s not unknown to get an email saying “Help – I have to vent or I’ll explode” followed by a description of the latest rip-off perpetrated by the multiculti hordes. Believe me, these people for whom English is no requirement, know our Welfare System chapter&verse, know the most obscure provisions for benefits that even have the staff scrambling for the rule-book.

    On the radio the other day I heard a statistic of 70% (I think) of “terrified asylum-seekers in fear of their lives” had, on being granted Permanent Residency, returned to their home country within ONE YEAR, coming back to OZ with a brace of relatives under the “family reunion” provisions.

    And I’ve only just started……….

  2. It will all end in tears….

  3. Blackswan says:

    Multiculturalism of another kind……….

    An update on the saga of the “pointy rocks in the paddock”.

    Agreement has now been reached by local Council, State Govt and Aboriginal Activists who challenged a major highway development on the grounds that some sharp stones had been discovered (on the banks of the River Jordan, no less) which could well have been used by aboriginal ancients.

    A $12 million bridge across the paddock has been agreed to, as opposed to the Aborigines’ preferred option for a new route requiring the demolition of 30 existing homes. It hasn’t been disclosed what “compensation” (if any) has changed hands.

    A similar highway by-pass to the south (both at least 30 years overdue) has also been brought to a standstill due to more “pointy rocks” being discovered. Unfortunately the site doesn’t allow for a bridge, so the development of a nearby Industrial Park bringing employment to the area has been shelved.

    We must be respectful of cultural heritage, but at what cost, and to whose benefit is such action, especially when the existence of the stones (no artifacts) was previously unknown to those who claim them to be “sacred”.

    A conundrum to say the least.

  4. Locusts & Wild Honey says:

    I am an immigrant in a foreign culture. I am currently sat in a western bar in a Chinese city drinking espresso. There aren’t many places that make espresso here, so I’m happy to find this place. Well re-find would be more apt, as I used to be a regular here several years ago.

    I speak Chinese, by and large, with the Beijing burr that makes many native Chinese jealous. They can understand what I say, but I can’t understand what they say, and we both know why that is. In the past year I’ve read 3 Chinese language books, which is more than many Chinese read in a decade. I spent half an hour last night explaining the intricacies of Chinese bureaucracy to a Chinese person. If you want to know about Chinese history, you would be better off asking me than a random on the street.

    I have lived in, and been in contact with, China for longer than a couple of hundred million Chinese people have been alive. Yet I do not have many Chinese friends and will never ever be Chinese. If an anti-white riot were to erupt, I hope I’ll be able to find somewhere safe to hide.

    Multi-culturalism is inherently flawed. Cultures are by nature, some argue down to a cellular level, so different that the natural reaction is clumping of cultures in to separate groups. It takes an extraordinary amount of effort by the minority and thoughtful accommodation by the majority to even begin the process of meshing disparate cultures together. I don’t know who came up with this policy, but I feel it is someone who went on a year abroad and maybe skimmed the froth of an exciting different culture, without ever immersing themselves in that culture. This is the first espresso I’ve had in a long long time. I doubt that whoever came up with this policy ever tried to relinquish their own coffee, in favour of something alien.

    If I move to Australia, I may eventually be able to get an Australian passport. But I will never be Australian, neither will I ever be American. I am too English. How the powers that be thought that ghettoisation of a hundred different minorities would lead to one big happy caramel coloured family, I’ll never know.

    News got back to me recently, a Chinese friend said to another Chinese friend, “Locusts really has integrated well in to China, but he’s picked up all the bad habits, all the habits we want to get rid of, but none of the good ones.” His meaning being that he thought it would be better if I’d picked up the desirable newer Chinese habits of playing basketball, going running, going on day trips to the mountains, talking about what house I was going to buy, and being polite to all those I met. Instead the habits I have picked up are spitting, drinking rice wine, chain smoking and shouting at the waitress to hurry up with my order.

    I had those newer habits when I first came to China, except for playing basketball, which I think is a game for inner city Americans. I lost them though. It might just be that the habits of some cultures are better than others.

    I will never be Chinese, but I am no longer English either. I have met many English people recently and their softness amazes me. Their belief in right and wrong, aggrieved by petty injustices, soft tones and wide eyes as they talk about the concepts of certain things yet with no grasp of the realities; and that trusting, trusting expression on their faces.

    I am a one man experiment in multi-culturalism and I declare myself to be a horrid failure.

    I write a lot on the immigration and multi cultural threads on the DT, for one reason. I have subjected myself to this, it was my choice, but for those back home, those who believe nothing because they’ve never had to choose between different things, they were never asked. They never had a choice. Their world has changed upside down before they could even ask themselves and their families whether they had the ability to adapt, let alone the energy.

    Anyway, I need to go now, I have to go plead with a faceless bureaucrat to let me stay here for a bit longer. He asked for my home address in England, and I said I no longer had a home in England. He was very surprised, and I explained I wouldn’t want to go back anyway, as England has changed since I left, and so have I.

  5. Locusts & Wild Honey says:

    This line:

    I am a one man experiment in multi-culturalism and I declare myself to be a horrid failure.

    Should read:

    I am a one man experiment in cultural integration and I declare myself to be a horrid failure.

    Integrating is difficult enough as it is. Incentives should not be given to strengthen the inherent cultural centrifugal forces that erupt when we touch something quite foreign.

  6. New post from me…. http://knottedprop.wordpress.com/2010/10/19/biodiversity-the-next-scare-bubble/
    I promised to stay away from AGW and mostly I have but this one is just starting so I’m getting on the bandwagon early.

    With that done with well Locusts got me thinking here I am an Englishman in Memfrica and have been here since 93 and I have probably gone native. However I have the advantage of Locusts in that this is a place which shares a similar culture, well actually two. One Scots Irish based the other a mish mash from Africa. Being Northern English my own culture has many affinity’s with Scots Irish culture and they even drop the G off any word to make me feel even better.
    Initially when I arrived I did go into culture shock for 6 months where I had to relearn the American way of doing business for even some of the simplest tasks. No drive thru’s for me while growing up, the lack of convenient public transport was another shock (thank you Rosa Parks). Once you have mastered Y’all you have become as one with the culture. There is only one step left for me to take and that is full time citizenship and finally drop my allegiance to queen and country. I am finding that hard with a democratic President with Marxist leanings.

    I now worship at the altar of the one true son of Memphis….


  7. Erik says:

    “The problem, of course, is when one (or more) of the component cultures reject the basic umbrella tenets of the host society, usually on the basis of religion”

    ..and thats the problems we now face in the Arab ghetto’s in Denmark (next to Germany but not part of Germany, thank you very much for your help guys!)

    They even ambush the fire brigade and Police, its like a state in the state

    And home robbery is on the rise, I’m always armed whilst at home, the only place I can carry arms legally, on the street anything more lethal than a folding knife with a 7 cm blade is outlawed

  8. Dr. Dave says:

    America has always been “multicultural”. In fact in many ways this defines America. The key, however, is assimilation and the recognition of national sovereignty. Successful immigrants have come to America to become Americans. Today this is not always the case.

    Our biggest problem today is illegal immigration from Mexico (primarily) and Central and South America. Hispanic culture is a defining feature in the USA, particularly in the southwestern states. But this culture has been around for literally hundreds of years. Quite a few of these “native” Hispanics speak Spanish but virtually all speak English fluently (usually with no accent). Culturally they are Americans, just like all the British, Dutch, German, French, Italian, Irish, African, Chinese, Scandinavian, Vietnamese, etc. immigrants who have come to this country over the last 200 years. These Mexicans are not assimilating or becoming “Americans”. For the most part they are desperately poor, poorly educated and possess few skills. They don’t learn English, they follow the customs of their native land, hell they even fly the Mexican flag. They have developed their own subculture of government dependency…and crime.

    Not as large a problem for the US (yet) is the influx of Muslims from the Middle East. This group is better about learning English but are even more reluctant to assimilate into American culture. Many are openly hostile to the United States. This is somewhat new for America. I fear it is inherently dangerous for the country.

    A sovereign nation has a national identity. America is composed of peoples from all over the world, from almost every culture you can imagine, yet they are “American”. They share many social characteristics that manifest as the American culture. Right now the US is essentially being invaded by 3rd world countries and we have liberal statists who are actively facilitating this invasion.

    At its core I would say multiculturism is a good thing, a net benefit provided there is an expectation of assimilation into a national identity. As multi-culti is playing out in Europe I would say it’s a disaster. American Libertarians are kind of squishy about immigration. Perhaps I could agree with their idea if we didn’t have a welfare state. But a great American conservative, Walter Williams, asks this one important question of the Libertarians, “should anybody who wants to live in the United States be allowed to?” Where ever you live…ask this question about your own country.

  9. Erik the problem is our leaders lack a spine and do not want to be accused of being racist. Personally the immigrants want a war then give it to them, crush them with tear gas, plastic bullets water cannon and if that does not work live ammo. Show them who is boss and impose curfews and restrictions on them all. Also no more mosque building and heavy restrictions on use on the ones now open. Also cut benefits to zero.

  10. Blackswan says:

    What an amazing account of the experience of a global nomad.

    Locusts, I knew you weren’t like any Englishman I’ve ever met by the following lines in your report on the riots;

    “Shrieks and screams penetrated the glass wall of the restaurant, and young girls rushed up to the door faces of pure terror, trying to open it faces pushed up to the glass. But it was locked. I watched them as they looked at me, with expressions pleading me to open the door, give them the refuge of a safe and familiar American fast-food restaurant. I took a bite of my hamburger turned around and headed back up the stairs.”

    As a person of British heritage, and by extension culture, I could not have turned my back like that. The bite out of your hamburger was like a punctuation mark, putting an impersonal end to any involvement in someone else’s distress. Undoubtedly prudent in the circumstances, but nonetheless odd in our culture.

    It’s one thing to adopt the recreational habits of a host country such as rice wine and cigarettes, even contributing to gobs of phlegm on the footpaths, but to adopt such emotional inscrutability, seeing our English traits as “soft and trusting with a belief in right and wrong” is so revealing.

    Is that what we Australians mean when an immigrant finally cottons on to our sense of humour – “He’s one of us, he’s a true blue Aussie”. It’s really the emotional connections where we find common ground. I never fully understood that.

    You’re right about it being natural for minorities to coalesce into ghettos but our inborn sense of justice and naivety about the “realities” of life still foments resentment when we are blatantly taken advantage of by those who have no respect for who we are, where we live, our Rule of Law and see our “generosity” as nothing but weakness worthy of their contempt.

    Multiculturalism……….indeed one of the most complex questions confronting the modern world. Still Locusts, I don’t envy your life, always to be an “other”.

  11. Dr. Dave says:


    I had no idea you were in Memphis. Anyway…you mentioned a Democrat (not “democratic” if you please) President with Marxist leanings. Hell! He’s a damn socialist! He’s so utterly “cool and hip” that he gave the Queen a damn iPod loaded with his own speeches. Golly, nothing says “class” quite like that.

    Keep working on your “y’all”. It took me at least two years to become believably fluent in Texan after I moved from the civilized midwest.

  12. Amerloque says:

    Hi Oz !

    ///Is multiculturalism desirable?///


    /// … can actually have the effect of reducing the multikulti differences to the quaint and charming: clothing, food, markets, dancing and cultural festivals, and so on. I’ve seen just how wonderfully well that sort of multiculturalism can work in my country, as I’m sure most of you have as well: vive la difference! ///

    These are not anecdotal: they have contributed in no small measure to the destruction of France as a Western country based on the Enlightenment. They are part and parcel of the mulikulti sales pitch. They are the feet in the door(s). They are anesthetics used to brainwash populations.

    /// I’d like to add one huge boilerplate disclaimer to this whole discussion: multiculturalism is not multiracialism. You all know my rule on that here, and I’ll have no hesitation in wiping any comments I consider even mildly racially offensive.///

    Oz, I’m not sure what you mean here. (sigh)

    Perhaps I’m reading too much into this … or I’m just not sure that your caveat only extends to the “n-word” or to obviously racist qualifiers such as “the soandsos stink” or “the whatchits are smelly and dirty” or “that racial group would sooner cut your throat than talk to you.”. The latter are no-brainers and I really can’t visualize any usual poster here writing in such a fashion … So …

    Does this mean if I write “The CRAN (Conseil Représentatif des Associations Noires) organized black African drumming demonstrations on Bastille Day near traditional dances on the street so as to drown out the French music” that I am being “racist” ?

    (They did. Organized, loud drumming can now be found/heard every weekend in many neighborhoods in Paris, and in larger French cities.)

    Does this mean that I can’t say “Don’t take the Parisian metro outside of rush hour since the only white people you see are probably tourists” ? (Sorry, but it’s sad but true.)

    Does this mean that I can’t say “Don’t go through the Chatelet metro station at any time except rush hour if you are white: you are risking your life.”

    What if I speak about the “white flight” from Paris ? ‘Racist’ ?

    Does this mean that when I say “Over 80% of incarcerated prisoners in France are of Arab and black extraction” I am being ‘racist’ ?

    Does this mean that when I say “Only Arabic is spoken in and around the Gare du Nord after sundown: no one speaks French (more likely no one wants to !).” I am being ‘racist’ ?

    Does this mean that when I say “Gangs of black youths came at the end of the recent Technoparade and attacked young white people (only) for their cellphones and credit cards.” (It’s filmed, on youtube, just like the riot(s) last year where the very same thing occurred.) I am being ‘racist’ ?

    Does this mean that when Locusts says “… except for playing basketball, which I think is a game for inner city Americans.” he is being ‘racist’ ?
    (… because these days inner city Americans are mostly blacks.)

    How about “My Arab streetsweeper has 21 kids, and receives a child allowance for each of them, even if they live back in the home country.” ? ‘Racist’ ?

    How about: “France has begun the first deportations of 700 members of the Roma Gypsy minority, to Romania and Bulgaria, as part of its controversial crackdown on communities officials hold responsible for criminal activity.” Roma is a ‘racial’ word, not a ‘political word. So … is using it “racist” ?

    Recently sentenced to prison is the leader of the black gang that tied up and tortured the Jewish kid Ilan Halimi (while the neighbors watched ! check Wiki)
    Further from Wiki:

    /// Police have attributed to the banlieues’ gang subculture a “poisonous mentality that designates Jews as enemies along with other ‘outsiders,'” such as Americans, mainstream French, and Europeans in general. “If they could have gotten their hands on a (non-Jewish) French cop in the same way, they probably would have done the same thing,” a retired police chief opined.[6] ///

    I would like a bit more guidance on all of this, please, Oz.

    Many thanks in advance !


    Mon ami,

    I have not made myself clear? My apologies; let me try again.

    “My Arab streetsweeper…” – try “My Iraqi streetsweeper…”. “Gangs of black youths…” – try “Gangs of Somali youths”. the fact that their races are arab, or negro, is incidental. The toxic elements of their cultures, juxtaposed with yours, are what have caused those situations. Not their race. This you know perfectly well.

    Folks, I’ve stated my policy on LibertyGibbert and I make NO APOLOGIES for it whatsoever. If I’m running the risk of seeming overly politically correct, it’s a risk I’m quite prepared to take. In my nearly fifty years on this earth, I’ve seen far too much hatred based on the spurious issue of race, and I’m not going to be party to any more of it here. Full stop.

    Criticize toxic cultures all you like – indeed, I welcome it on this thread – but please folks, watch your language and never let it spill into what may even be perceived as racism. Remember we have many lurkers here and this is an important issue.

    Thanks in advance for your understanding.


  13. Blackswan says:

    Erik says:
    October 19, 2010 at 5:28 pm

    Hello Erik

    Nice to see you visiting Tasmania, Princess Mary’s home town.

    What you describe is like certain enclaves in Sydney that have become no-go zones due to foreign residents’ hostility to any intrusion, even police and ambulance services.

    Dr Dave

    You’re absolutely right – “They have developed their own subculture of government dependency…and crime.” It seems that has become the common characteristic of the non-assimilating immigrant and the two seem to go hand-in-glove. Welfare and Crime.

    Hard working people doing their best for their families, and appreciative of the opportunity and their host country, don’t seem to fall into that category.

  14. Locusts & Wild Honey says:


    The sentence:

    I took a bite of my hamburger turned around and headed back up the stairs.

    was written very deliberately, as it marks a scar maybe, or an amputation of a familiar emotional or moral limb. Everybody should be very very proud of their British heritage, as it gives more than they will ever realize.

    I love that heritage, and the more I lose it, the more I love it. But I am an “other” now, no matter where I go, and no more so than to the Englishmen who came before me, the ones whose behaviour I celebrate, but there is, at least at present, little of that left in me.

    Immigration changes the immigrant and the host, and while some of the changes are possible to predict, I suppose the end result is something that neither anticipated, or maybe wanted.

    If I go back to England, I’m sure that any future friends will be kind enough to call me “eccentric” or just gone native. Yet on the other hand, I may likely be better adapted to the England that I find than those who never left.

  15. Locusts & Wild Honey says:


    How dare you lay bare my careful choice in words!

  16. Dr Dave yep Memphis it does have it’s pluses the Blues, Good BBQ and a city with a small town feel. I could have said a lot worse about the POTUS, but chose not to as I would be ranting all day. However if I ever get the chance it’s the mountains for me out West, dryer cleaner air.

  17. Locusts & Wild Honey says:


    In some areas in West of Beijing, the Shanghai Pudong, and Hongkong Island, you are more likely to hear English than Chinese. I know that some Chinese people have choice words for the girls that flock to the exotic foreigners and the resultant mongrel babies.

  18. Dr. Dave says:


    There is a common lie American politicians (and assorted liberals) like to toss around. That is, “America is a nation of immigrants”. This is patently false. At the time this country was founded MOST of the people living here were born here and this has never changed. The USA was simply a country that tolerated immigration.

    There’s a great book on American immigration entitled “Unguarded Gates” that chronicles immigration since the founding of the nation. In each and every case mass immigration was associated with problems and social upheaval. For the most part we were fortunate with early mass immigrations because they brought us a lot of educated and skilled craftsmen from Europe. We were less fortunate with the mass immigrations of the early 20th century but in each case the immigrants assimilated and became “Americans”. What Europe and the US face now is not so much immigration as it is invasion and occupation.

    The USA still accepts 1,000,000 legal immigrants each year. Even this number is too high to expect reasonable assimilation. Imagine 1M non-English speaking immigrants to Oz every year, year after year. We get that many and more in the form of illegal immigrants. Some want to build a big ol’ fence on our southern border. This is entirely unnecessary. All we have to do is enforce existing laws and prosecute those who hire illegals and deny them of all social services (free public education for their children, welfare, food stamps, housing assistance) and immediately deport anyone found to be in the country illegally. They’ll self-deport if we simply remove the incentives to come here.

    I’m guessing your “boat people” are much like our illegals. They are little more than economic refugees. It’s time to stop international welfare.

  19. Locusts & Wild Honey says:

    Hi Oz !

    ///Is multiculturalism desirable?///


    /// … can actually have the effect of reducing the multikulti differences to the quaint and charming: clothing, food, markets, dancing and cultural festivals, and so on. I’ve seen just how wonderfully well that sort of multiculturalism can work in my country, as I’m sure most of you have as well: vive la difference! ///

    These are not anecdotal: they have contributed in no small measure to the destruction of France as a Western country based on the Enlightenment. They are part and parcel of the mulikulti sales pitch. They are the feet in the door(s). They are anesthetics used to brainwash populations.

    Says American living in France. Or do you not count? You are as much an ethnic minority as the other foreigns, though you share more common history and culture with the French than immigrants from its former colonies
    Said the Devil’s Advocate…

  20. I can see this is going to be a lively topic of debate. I hope everyone feels free to speak their minds openly within Oz’s lax rules. Locusts so what you are describing is the fact that the Han Chinese are just as racist as everyone else.

  21. Locusts & Wild Honey says:

    Dr. Dave

    It’s time to stop international welfare.

    Alex Jones makes a convincing case that the evolution of NAFTA means that this welfare from a legal and political point of view may not be quite as international as you imagine.

  22. Dr Dave then with a large dollop of irony I say kick the illegals out. The only reason the powers in Washington tolerate the illegals is it helps depress wages in the farming and food processing sectors and makes a few people rich at taxpayers expense.

  23. Locusts & Wild Honey says:


    To label anyone as being a racist is a modern sin. I said some, not all. This is a quagmire of a subject, as so many of the terms involved are emotionally charged.

    Newborn babies trust their own mother and father more than anyone else. A corresponding desire to stay within one’s own society, or culture is again a perfectly rational emotional reflex. To distrust the “other” is natural, as he is by definition, unknown, and will remain so until he is no longer “other”.

    I went to Hong Kong recently and was approached by two hostel owners, a Chinese and a Pakistani. I trusted the Chinese man over the Pakistani, as although the Chinese man only spoke broken English, and I had spoke to him in what to me is a foreign language, and the Pakistani probably loved playing cricket, I could read the Chinese man’s blank face easier than I could the expressive Pakistani’s.

    That is not being racist, that is making rational life decisions based on what is known and unknown. For all I know the Pakistani hostel may have been much better than the Chinese hostel, but now, I suppose I will never know…

  24. Locusts & Wild Honey says:


    If it is racist to call an Iraqi an Arab then it is also racist to call an American Anglo-Saxon.

  25. Dr. Dave says:


    Perhaps I should have chosen my words more carefully. True international welfare would be akin to gobs of foreign aid dumped on despotic dictators in 3rd world countries or possibly the 40% of the US military budget spent on Europe and Japan.

    More specifically, I was addressing the situation of the economic refugee. No one escapes Cuba to flee to Venezuela. In fact I’m pretty sure not many economic refugees flee to China (and you’d be the guy to ask).

    Do you really listen to Alex Jones?

  26. Dr. Dave says:


    Where’s the irony? I’m sure you’re in the country legally. But you’re correct in your assessment of why illegals are tolerated. I’ll spare you my rants on this subject. Perhaps Ozboy could start a whole new topic on immigration. You neglected that the Democrat party desperately wants to convert them into millions of new Democrat voters. Didn’t the Labour Party do something similar in the UK?

  27. Edward says:

    We have a large problem, fermenting or festering in Britain.

    A large, no, vast influx of uneducated, now radicalised people who regard Judaeo Christianity as anathema, who regard the natives as subhuman and look upon local British youth as depraved. Now are demanding their ‘rights’, you see, they want their own religious courts – this is the start.

    Although, the proliferation of Mosques has been like an explosion of ‘autumnal fungi’, in towns and cities across the north, west and east midlands. Fed by big, big money from Saudi oil dollars (what a perfidy – how the Arabs love the irony!).
    And with the (blessing of the political cognoscenti Prince Charles amongst them) they allowed Saudi University trained Wahhabi imams, into this country – who hate the west with a fervour not seen since the rise of Mecca.

    The sentinels for too long looked abroad the eye was shut or a blind eye turned: problem, what problem!??

    We had multiculturalism – “we look after our ethnics and they look after us – we have Londonistan!”

    YES! through the wisdom of Multikulti, foreigners inimical to our traditions and culture and mores, have been raised above (in the eyes of the law) the indigenous peoples cos diversity and Equality became the buzz words, the thinking being: anyway we Socialists don’t like our brethren in the working class ghetto’s – so lets have ethnic ghettos and encourage, protect and succour them (and they will be so happy – give them an inch…..).

    Socialism at work again, for Angela to admit this and make public this incredible statement, is indicative of how low her standing now is in the Fatherland. She is s****** bricks and so are we in Britain.

    Because our Socialists are really National Socialists, they carried their policies (of multiculturalism) too far and if the idea was initially flawed, which it undoubtedly was. Then, the repercussions are not understood. This idea is, only now dawning on the twats who imposed it, who knows where it will end?!

    Yet! There is no chance, absolutely zero, of any British politician making a similar speech here: they are too frightened (the monstrous genie is out of the bottle) soon enough we will need the Army on our streets, not patrolling hell holes east of Suez.

  28. Locusts & Wild Honey says:

    Dr. Dave

    40% of the US military budget spent on Europe and Japan.

    America picked up the white man’s burden, and crippled the other white man in the process. Prior to the American hegemony, the British Empire spent nothing on Japan, as we were allied with them, until we dropped them for an alliance with you guys; after which point they panicked and realized they needed an Empire of their own.

    In fact I’m pretty sure not many economic refugees flee to China (and you’d be the guy to ask).

    You’d be surprised. You are more than welcome to them, they have depressed my wages no end, and are fairly crap at what they do.

    Do you really listen to Alex Jones?

    On occasion.

  29. Locusts & Wild Honey says:

    Crippled was probably too strong a choice of word. I’m not saying that 2 World Wars had no impact!

  30. Amerloque says:

    Hi Locusts !

    /// Says American living in France. Or do you not count? You are as much an ethnic minority as the other foreigns, though you share more common history and culture with the French than immigrants from its former colonies
    Said the Devil’s Advocate…///


    “Immigration” in the past was very much a matter of burning one’s bridges.

    One packed up one’s kit bag, gathered wife and waifs, picked up a steerage ticket and sailed the North Atlantic. Little does the “why” matter, in Amerloque’s opinion: the reason that one emigrated was economic, or racial, or religious, or, even, fear, or sheer bloodymindedness. (Amerloque’s family (both maternal and paternal) left the “home” country just before WWI. They lived in a country located between the Czar and the Kaiser.)

    Amerloque burned his bridges over forty years ago. He made a conscious choice to live here in France. He doesn’t hang out with other English-speakers / immigrants / Americans. He learned French, writes for certain media in French, and speaks French at home; he celebrates French holidays and, unsurprisingly, is more concerned with some French issues than with non-French. He doesn’t consider himself a part of any ethic minority (although being American is certainly a winner, given WWs I and 2).

    Until his very major illness (see his blog), he never took a dime from the French state, even when he was (oh so rarely) “between jobs”. He paid in uncomplainingly to the system. Mme Amerloque (a French national) collected child allowances from the French state: paid directly to her account, they were not means-tested.

    Amerloque misses good hotdogs, baseball, deep-dish apple pie … (grin)

    This “new immigration” is not bridge-burning. It is little more than the rape of French society. The “new” immigrants demonstrate none of the behaviors described above, if any.

    Many fly home for weekends.

    Many don’t spend money in the commonweal which has offered to share its wealth and has taken them in.

    The “remittances” (i.e., money) sent back to the “home” country are staggering sums (billions and billions) each year and in some cases are the largest foreign exchange earner for the countries involved.

    Many bring their extended families to France for medical treatment at state expense. (Have you even been in a two-bed hospital room next to a North African patriarch who had 13 (!) members of his family visiting at the same time, making a mockery of sanitation (not to mention visiting hours) ? It is not a pleasant experience, I can assure you, especially when one knows that they aren’t paying a penny for care of the “patriarch” …).

    Ask Mme Amerloque about her (one, much poorer) nephew. He has waited over twelve years for public housing. He qualifies every time. He never receives an apartment, but an arriving “immigrant” family is housed immediately. There’s something wrong with that: he’s been paying into the system for fifteen years, and receives no housing.

    I guess that’s one of the characteristics of this “new immigration”: screw the locals.


    PS: Your latest is absolutely great and a pleasure to read !

  31. Blackswan says:

    Amerloque says:
    October 19, 2010 at 5:57 pm


    Interesting questions you pose. There seems to be universal confusion over what constitutes racism.

    In this country one is not permitted to criticize bad behaviour or criminality while ascribing it to any race or religion – except Whites.

    The criminals hide behind assertions of discrimination and “profiling” – that unfortunate tendency of Police to actually describe wanted suspects as being of Middle Eastern, Aboriginal or Pacific Islander appearance. Caucasian doesn’t get much of a mention these days either.

    Any reference to suspects, murderers, thieves and rapists has lapsed into offenders or persons of interest. They aren’t questioned when they are caught – they help police with their inquiries. The term prison or jail has become correctional facility and any resident of such taxpayer funded board and lodgings is no longer a convict or an inmate. I’m glad the term Penitentiary has gone out of favour, as few who passed through their portals were penitent about anything.

    It’s this hijacking of our language by the Socialist/Marxists in our Bureaucracies whereby the creases in our social fabric are being ironed out.

    In this country failure to observe these recent social protocols can (and has) resulted in slander suits or Govt prosecution under the Racial Vilification Act or prosecution under UN Human Rights Conventions, resulting in huge financial penalties for those found guilty of intemperate language.

    So it seems the only people one can abuse around here are white christian law-abiding citizens, otherwise blacks, immigrants and the criminal classes are not happy.

    Now be nice Amerloque – after all, I am a black swan and I may well get my beak out of joint if you cast aspersions on my plumage.

    PS – Sorry I didn’t email you with my deep and meaningful thoughts on this…LOL

  32. Amerloque says:

    Hi Oz !

    OK, thanks for your clarification.

    Believe me, I still have a question or two, since you raise other issues, such as “Why do youths join ‘gangs’. What are the criteria ?” (grin)

    Anyway, I’ll let it go.


  33. Amerloque says:

    Hi Blackswan !

    “So it seems the only people one can abuse around here are white christian law-abiding citizens, otherwise blacks, immigrants and the criminal classes are not happy.”

    Oh, it’s about the same here …


  34. Locusts & Wild Honey says:


    Your motivations to go to France are similar to those that drove me to China I suspect.

    The critical factor is the sheer mass of “other”. For Europe this may prove to be a bigger cultural and social upheaval than those wars of the past. If those “other”s do not integrate, and owing to sheer numbers it is unlikely that they will to an extent found acceptable by the natives, then tensions may become unbearable.

    In the worst case scenario, there may be diverse civil wars across Europe cut on cultural, but also owing to different skin colours, racial lines. Whatever the result of such terrible upheaval, the end result may be through common shared struggle that all the Christian whiteys in Europe will have a common shared history and memory, creating the shared cultural impetus for a union, some may say Empire, that may last for a very long time.

    But then again I probably just got all that analysis from some sci-fi book i read when i was younger…

  35. Blackswan says:

    G’day Ozboy

    This is getting really weird.

    Why would it be offensive to describe a Paris street-sweeper as an Arab? Ascribing his origins to Iraq when he’s actually a Turk, or Egyptian would surely be offensive to him. Describing an African negro as a Somali when he may well be a Zulu or Ethiopian may well upset him. How can anyone, not familiar with the languages spoken or national characteristics, be considered to be offensive with such broad racial descriptive terms when no offense is intended?

    There is no mistaking the vitriol and malice of racism when it’s intended, regardless of the words used. Equally, surely it is possible to use such broad racially descriptive terms as Arab or African in general conversations on relevant issues without anyone reasonably taking offense when none is intended.

    As I’ve said before, it’s really hard to tippy-toe with webbed feet although I’m used to eggshells in my nest. It’s all too weird.

    Swanny, I think you’ve misunderstood me. I pulled “Iraqi” and “Somali” out of thin air because I don’t know the specifics of the cases Amerloque describes. “Saudi” and “Rwandan”. “Palestinian” and “Liberian”. Whatever.

    Have I truly not made myself clear? – Oz

  36. Locusts & Wild Honey says:

    Why do people respect my decision to move abroad, but not those of Somalis who move to Europe?

    I think people are forgetting the motivations for the move. Individual people make indivdual choices, which may be brave or self serving dependent on the person.

    The main problem is that apart from higher wages in the Developed World, is the large safety net for those that struggle. It is a perfectly rational decision for the world’s poor to move to a place where life is not a day to day struggle. If it weren’t for that safety net, would the situation arose such huge emotions as it currently does?

  37. Blackswan says:


    Your theory on the uniting of a European Empire on racial grounds is interesting.
    And there we were, thinking rampant immigration policies were working on the divide and conquer principles.
    It’s a new concept to think about – force Europeans to embrace their commonality by challenging them from without.
    I think your earlier description of “coffee coloured” harmony is more likely. Shame it’ll never work.

  38. Blackswan says:


    It’s when the “safety net” becomes a “hammock” that tensions arise, especially when the person paying for it has been mugged at knife-point.

  39. NoIdea says:

    The propaganda aspect

    We can see and hear about the effects of the Multicultural invasion, every which way we look, it is always in the MSM.
    Indeed we can see parts of our communities, where it appears that we are in the minority.
    Not that I have been to any myself recently.
    As Glen Beck explains to Donald Duck… “The Mexicans, South Americans, Refugees, Chinese, Venezuelans, Obama himself, and illegal aliens THEY ARE ALL COMING!”
    Perhaps the hype is just a method of inducing more fear?


  40. Amerloque says:

    Hi Blackswan !

    /// … without anyone reasonably taking offense when none is intended.///

    IMHO, that’s the major problem with “racially-charged” words … let’s take a look at another use, forsooth …

    (wide grin)

    Take names, for example.

    Take “Amerloque”.

    It means “American, in the pejorative sense. ”

    It’s sort of like saying “Frog” for a French national or “Rosbif”, which is what the French call the “English”.

    “Amerloque” can be divided into two French words:

    “amer” and “loque”.

    “Amer” means “bitter, irritating”.

    “Loque” means “appearance of physical and / or mental wreck”.

    So, let’s say that a given poster opens with:



    “Hi Amer ! ”

    Is Amerloque supposed to go ballistic and start screaming “racism – you effing insulted me!” ?

    Or, with “loque”: “You are insulting me by saying I’m a physical wreck !” ?

    Well, no, because Amerloque is 99.9% sure that the use of one or another here was designed not to give offence, but rather to convey a comfortable familiarity, find an easier way to communicate.


    No offense intended, none taken !


  41. Loque & Wild Honey says:


  42. Amerloque says:

    Hi Locusts !

    ” HA”

    Ummm … hopefully you are laughing _with_ me and not _at_ me ?

    (wider grin)


  43. Loque & Wild Honey says:


    I’m not sure, I’ve had beer but no food.

  44. Loque & Wild Honey says:


    About the Hammock, sure, which is why if it doesn’t exist you have to be more determined to stay.

  45. Amerloque says:

    Now on the DT:

    /// Siberian swans signal start of Arctic winter

    The first migrating Siberian swans have arrived three weeks early as Britain braces itself for a blast of Arctic weather.///

    The article didn’t mention if there were any black ones, though.

    (wide grin)

  46. Blackswan says:

    Dear American in Paris, Sir….

    (I’m scared to call you anything so nasty as Amerloque)

    Those Siberian swans are pussies. Flying south because of a bit of snow – haven’t they heard of AGW? We black Anitpodean stalwarts have suffered through our blizzards of Antarctic origins. Buth then they were caused by CC as well – izen said so.

  47. Blackswan says:


    “Have I truly not made myself clear?”

    No – I only said I am a black swan, not a smart one…lol

    At school I flunked classes in nuance, subtle and oblique – must be why I got thumped so often. (I’m smiling – hard to do with a beak..lol).

  48. Amerloque says:

    Hi Blackswan (not abbreviated to BS, because we Engligh speakers all know what that means, right ?) (grin)

    What would Nassim Nicholas Taleb say about all this ?



  49. Loque & Wild Honey says:


    Just like to say thanks for your earlier compliment!

  50. Locusts & Wild Honey says:

    Right, I’ll change my name back now, before I forget for ever more.

  51. Blackswan says:

    American in Paris

    Maybe he would say……….
    “it is sometimes the one that is most exposed to the negative Black Swan that will appear to be the most fit for survival.”


  52. Locusts & Wild Honey says:


    I thought you were negative anyway, so two negatives make a positive. Positive… many people medically designated positive these days… they don’t last long you know…

  53. thendisnighnot says:

    What a highly charged thread…….. myself i’m an immigrant in a strange land (China) but came here for one reason only in the beginning…….. money, mullah dosh etc then i found i actually love the place for just about every reason except for the aforementioned albeit i may have a different perspective if i had none! And no Locusts i don’t live in Pudong its Puxi for me all day long surrounded by real Chinese people. The bottom line IMHO opinion is i think what Os (its that Key again!!) said by all means go anywhwhere in the world but ffs abide by the local laws and respect their culture…. is that really too much to ask? As an ex-pat from Blighty it offends me that people come to the UK who have no respect for our culture or laws and just want to sponge of the state and some appear to have a wish to use violence to achieve their aims. These people should not be tolerated i don’t give a flying feck whether they are black, white pink green, red or yellow its really that simple. Living over here has i think giving me a far better perspective on life and humanity as its so true there is good and bad in every culture. I think it was the late great Bob Marley who said “the colour of your skin is as important as the colour of your eyes” How very true and to borrow Passporty’s send off peace & love & PS where is he i distinctly remeber Osboy inviting him to the B&G for a beer or two on JaeDe’s blog and ultimately he’s a lot more fun than somebody else i could mention if the key that rhymes with bed was working!!!

  54. Blackswan says:

    When I was driving through the Victorian countryside recently, huge locust plagues threatened bumper spring crops. Large mobile roadside billboards advised “If locusts blur your vision, Pull over.” I kept driving.

  55. Amerloque says:

    Hello Blackswan ! Hello Locusts & Wild Honey !

    Many years ago, a Parsi couple in Paris, friends of Amerloque, invited him over to celebrate the seventh month of their unborn child in the wife’s womb. This was a decidedly Occidentalized version (usually no men would be allowed, apparently).

    Amerloque has never forgotten that afternoon and evening, since the other couple consisted of an airline pilot and his wife, an Italian air stewardess (yes, that was …the ex-stewardess is having a great political career in India …). The pilot, his wife, Amerloque’s girl-at-the-time and Amerloque were Roman Catholic, so over refreshments the talk turned to religion. Amerloque will never forget what the Parsi told him about the history of the Parsis … (finally ran it down to earth in the internet …) … this was at the end of the seventeenth century.

    One interesting, perhaps apocryphal Parsi legend relates the course of the initial meeting between Jadi Rana and the newly landed emigrants: When the Zoroastrians requested asylum, Jadi Rana motioned to a vessel of milk filled to the very brim to signify that his kingdom was already full and could not accept refugees. In response, one of the Zoroastrian priests added a pinch of sugar to the milk, thus indicating that they would not bring the vessel to overflowing and indeed make the lives of the citizens sweeter. Jadi Rana gave shelter to the emigrants and permitted them to practice their religion and traditions freely.

    Every time Amerloque hears “immigration” and “refusal to integrate”, he thinks of his Parsi friend.


  56. Locusts & Wild Honey says:

    Ha. Okay, I’ll go now!

  57. Locusts & Wild Honey says:

    I poked Swan.

    I wasn’t insinuating that you lived in Pudong by the way. I have some beautiful model friends who lived in a downtrodden hutong. Some mornings they woke up to find dirty black fingerprints on their knickers drying outside!

  58. Locusts & Wild Honey says:

    They are white, the curiosity of the locals was more than they could bear!

  59. Pointman says:

    Multiculturalism has not only failed “utterly”, it has created a climate in which Racism can flourish, which is the complete reverse of what it was supposed to engender.

    The central and fatal flaw at the heart of it was a misapprehension of what a culture actually is. It is not a certain style of dress, a type of cooking or specific rituals. These are just the exterior markers of a culture. If it doesn’t have those identifying markers, it’s not a culture. There’s a lot nicer ways of putting it but culture is essentially belonging to your gang. Humans have always “ganged up” and always will because it’s safer in a gang and that’s how we’ve survived. It’s an instinct which is deeper than visceral, it’s in our DNA.

    Big gangs have always either absorbed smaller gangs or destroyed them completely. The little gang was never preserved. This process continues until the gang bumps into another gang of equal size or power and we arrive at that entity we call a country.

    Multiculturalism said to the little gang, we think your culture is too good to be absorbed by the big gang so we’re going to give you lots of extra help so you won’t be absorbed. The inevitable result of this policy was ghettoisation with the added curse of a “protected species” label. They become part of a society but were excluded from its culture. For that very reason, they came to hate the big gang and this hatred finds its expression in gangs of feral young men wandering the streets of our cities who, because they would have benefited the most from absorption, feel the exclusion all the more keenly.

    Multiculturalism said to the big gang, you’re not allowed to destroy them or absorb them. Indeed, you should be taking on elements of their culture while they have no need to take on any elements of yours. We will give extra prominence to their culture while de-emphasising yours. Every gang has a group pride that will fight such insults on its identity. Inevitably they will grow to hate the smaller gang. This finds expression in liberal democracies by the founding of extremist racist parties who will gain mainstream traction as the discontent grows.

    Absorption rather than destruction has always been the tendency and for practical reasons. Why destroy what will become useful to you? Multiculturalism tried to halt the natural process of absorption and was not only an anti-survival strategy but created the climate of fear that racism thrives in. It’s being quietly dismantled in Europe but not fast enough.


  60. thendisnighnot says:

    Pointman…. a brilliant summary and so so true the irony as you say is that multiculturaism actually creates rascism one would guess the polar opposite of what was intended. I see dark days ahead in the UK as certain groups appeal to the lowest common dinominator as a result of the socialists attempting social engineering yet again!

  61. meltemian says:

    Great analysis of the problems inherent in ‘Multi-Culturism’. I think it all comes down to numbers. The UK, like most other countries to a greater or lesser extent, has always taken in immigrants. I have seen influxes from ex-colonies, Commonwealth countries, Hungarians in 1956, Ugandan Asians etc. but the sheer numbers that have arrived in the last decade have been overwhelming. Most immigrants anywhere have problems integrating into the host country, but usually they have wanted to. What we are now seeing is a lack of desire to take on the laws and culture of the host country, and without WANTING to become British there is no possibility of integration. It has always been possible for immigrants to hold on to their religion as being something apart from the law of the land, but there is now an impasse between that and Shariah law, and the culture of Islam appears to be stuck somewhere in the Middle Ages.
    As an immigrant to Greece I feel a certain amount of empathy regarding language. I am still struggling to speak and read Greek, particularly as everyone I meet is only too anxious to practice their English on me! However I do not expect to be kept by the state, my (limited) income is spent here so to some extent I am supporting the local economy. I had to prove I would be able to support myself before I was allowed to become a resident and I do not see why that cannot happen everywhere. Although there must be an allowance for genuine refugees it seems to me that the UK is just too crowded to take in any more immigrants.

  62. Pointman says:

    meltemian says:
    October 20, 2010 at 1:57 am

    Hi Mel,

    I agree with you about the numbers and it’s been alarmingly apparent that the people, whom one would expect to know exactly what the numbers are, have simply no idea. They appear to have lost control and it all helps to ramp up everyone’s worst fears.

    I also agree there is a significant element who does not want to become British but I think that’s a natural outcome of the small gang process under Multiculturalism. Britain, over the centuries, has absorbed wave after wave of immigrants who after the usual immigrant tough start, melted in. This wave has not and they simply cannot be that unique. Multiculturalism created this problem. You won’t get thanked for saying that but it’s the truth.


  63. Amanda says:

    Geez, guys (I include Meltemian of course), you’ve all covered so much ground so well that the Camerlegg government should gather it up and publish it as a White Paper (or whatever colour it ought to be).

    I think Meltemian is right about the extent of immigration being crucial — and also, from an American perspective, the legality of same. You cannot ascertain whether someone has a criminal record or not, and can support himself, if he has crashed the border in a pick-up truck uninvited — or simply run through the bushes over the legal line.

    We should always welcome immigrants of some kind or other, for three reasons:

    1) For the sake of decency, as Melt said: Leo Strauss, the great philosopher of the 20th century and then some, might have met a bad end had he not been able, as a German Jew, to escape from Hitler in 1933.

    2) Some of our best talent comes from abroad — Strauss went to England first and then to America, where he stayed and taught and left his legacy to humanity; on a vastly more modest level, my own dad was part of the ‘brain drain’ from Britain to Canada.

    3) Unless you are going to prohibit intermarriage with foreign nationals, you will always have some immigration. Ultimately, this will mean citizenship for most foreign spouses (as it did for me). One tires of re-applying for legal residence, and when one is married or has children, one does not want one’s status to be contingent on some bureaucrat’s say-so or the continuation of circumstances which may change. Is it fair that because I loved an American boy I can now vote in American elections and donate money to their campaigns? Well, the people I vote for think it’s fair enough! I have gained from coming to America, and I think that America has gained from my coming. That’s what immigration should mainly mean. Otherwise, you need to change your policy.

  64. Green Sand says:

    Oz this is sort of about culture, I don’t normally feel happy about reposting but this I can’t resist. From a Bishop Hill “Light Blogging” thread, which incidentally is worth a look, for quite a few good posts, but this from geoff chambers, well..

    “Australians in time of drought used to bring on the rain by wrapping their foreskins in the grease of wild dogs and the skin of the carpet snake and burying them in the earth. Nowadays they vote Labour.”


  65. meltemian says:

    Green Sand
    Thank heavens the “rainy season” has started (with a vengeance) or I might have a problem with Mr. M.!!!!!!
    By the way, are they still attached when buried in the ground??

  66. scud1 says:

    An email doing the rounds. Author unknown…

    A Somalian arrives in London as a new immigrant to the UK . He stops the first person he sees walking down the street and says…….. ‘Thank you Mr. British for letting me in this country, giving me housing, money for food, free medical care, free education and no taxes!’ The passerby says, ‘You are mistaken, I am Mexican!’

    The man goes on and encounters another passerby.. ‘Thank you for having such a beautiful country here in the UK !’ The person says, ‘I not British, I Polish!’

    The new arrival walks further, and the next person he sees he stops, shakes his hand and says, ‘Thank you for the wonderful Britain !’ That person puts up his hand and says, ‘I am from Russia , I am not from Britain !’

    He finally sees a nice lady and asks, ‘Are you a British?’ She says, ‘No, I am from Africa !’ Puzzled, he asks her, ‘Where are all the British?’ The African lady checks her watch and says …’Probably at work’

  67. Dr. Dave says:

    The great American economist, Thomas Sowell has written an excellent piece entitled “The Cult of Multiculturalism”. It can be found here:


  68. Amanda says:

    Hey Dave,
    To your super NR recommendation may I add my own (which I’ve just finished reading); it’s relevant to the discussion:

  69. Pointman says:

    Well, now that the subject has been raised about the terrible things Australians do to small animals, I can play this tune and ask what the connection is. No googling, Okay?

    Pointman of Wallawoora

  70. Amanda says:

    Pointman, presumably you are not including me in your question, as I have no idea what you’re referring to. I’ll just mention however, on the subject of small animals, that I am all confused because Wednesday’s stars tell me that I’m going to resemble ‘an exotic animal that feeds on the bones of dead whales lying on the ocean floor’ which is ‘known informally as the bone-eating snot-flower worm’ and ‘looks like a frilly pink plume growing up out of sheer bone’. As you recall, Monday’s horoscope told me that I was going to be a snake-charmer. I’ve yet to meet a cobra of confusion, though it’s true it’s only Tuesday, which is just as well as I’ve mislaid my flute. But I’m interested in the idea of ‘drawing sustenance from the skeletal remains of big things that were once vital’. That’s until I see Friday’s stars, which will no doubt tell me I’ll do best by shining like a mushroom. http://www.treknature.com/gallery/Europe/Czech_Republic/photo86298.htm

    I give up! Reality is simpler! heh heh heh

  71. Pointman says:

    Okay Amanda, you’re excused that question and it’s really about where the band’s name came from; three dog night. They’re the greenest mushrooms I’ve ever seen. To be frank, I’ve never seen a green mushroom in my life which does not invalidate the previous statement. Life has essentials, nothing else matters. You only get one shot at the thing anyway …


  72. Crownarmourer,

    So be a dual-national already. Don’t think of it as straddling a fence: think of it as collecting state pensions from both countries LOL! Hey, if economic tourists from any number of countries can hold 20 passports a pop and collect state pensions from each, you can too.

    I never saw the concept of nationalities and ethnicities as anything but a coward’s tool for playing divide and conquer based on truly risible and silly grounds. If nationhood was based on what you do rather than what you are, all this rubbish would blow away just as AGW, the satanic sister Kultur to ethnic blameological do-nothingism, will in about three months. Race ain’t about race, it’s about making people hate each other who would just as soon buy each other rounds, all for the sake of keeping easily sortable people form collectively exerting their wills for the sake of the common good.

    The Canadian immigration rules and wherefores are the most sane, to my mind. I don’t have the time to recite chapter and verse, but it comes down to: yes, you must speak & write or commit to learn to speak & write under our state tutelage within a specified period of time English and French; your trade or profession must correspond to Canada’s projected employment needs and must not compete with the existing labour force; stable family persons go to the head of the line if the other criteria are met; there is a 2% quota annually on the total number of refugees accepted, the others had better be working on third country or return options pronto; criminals, dopers and other flotsam get the boot nearly instantly, and if you look to buy a Canadian passport, it costs at least 500,000 Canadian dollars or more in hand which is assigned to the Canadian government as escrow to conduct a business immigration procedure. Plus health criteria, etc.

    Everyone seems to think Canada is a socialist paradise, even Canadians of a certain ilk who do not own a business nor are raising a family there. This is not so. The Canadian government insist on keeping it a “What you do, not what you are” society by official mandate and law. http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/index.asp

  73. Dr. Dave says:


    Pointman was making an obscure reference to dingos by linking to Three Dog Night. The band truly sucked in my estimation…but what do I know?

  74. Dr. Dave says:


    Can you imagine the whining and screaming if Canadian rules were adopted by the US? I looked at a job in BC about 30 years ago. The required paperwork was mind boggling. But what really stopped me from considering it further was when I figured out the offered salary was to be paid in Canadian dollars (about 76 cents of a US dollar at the time). I would essentially be taking a pay cut so I opted to remain an American.

  75. Pointman says:

    “but what do I know?” – True


  76. Amanda says:

    Dave, liked your reggae on the Juke Box. As for TDN, I can’t say they grab me in any immediate way, but then again these things are changeable: I used to think the Moody Blues were pretty good and saw them in concert but now I see them as Uncle Bob and his uncool friends, unreflectively liberal-bourgeois trying to be hip and remembering their glory years which weren’t so glorious in fact.

  77. Amanda says:

    Gosh I almost sounded like Crownarmourer there!

  78. Amanda says:

    Pointman: Do dingos spend the night in threes,then?
    As for mushrooms — yes, they can be beautiful and all manner of colours. I have whole books of glossy photos of them. Included is infor on whether they’re edible but boring, edible and wonderful, edible yet unpleasant, or edible in the purely literal sense but bringing on profound regret afterwards. While you remain alive, that is. :^)

  79. Pointman says:

    Amanda says:
    October 20, 2010 at 9:09 am

    “Do dingos spend the night in threes,then?”

    If you haven’t been googling, you’re really getting warm but consarnit, that’s a clue too …



  80. Amanda says:

    Pointman: Oh I see, they sleep together under trees when the chestnuts are in blossom and dream of Paris. It’s all coming clear to me now….

  81. Pointman says:

    How could I think i’d fooled you. Yes, of course I was referring the Fréhel’s Trois nuits des Dingos. Men are such fools. Never mind.

    Quand Je suis dans tes bras …


  82. Pointman says:

    The best thing about being in a gang and we’re all in several, is contained in this song. Click the link link, close your eyes and listen, especially to the crowd at the end. They’re “ganged” up.


  83. Blackswan says:

    Sneaking in under the wire is now child’s play

    “Did she tell you before the election she would build two more detention centres on the mainland, ship in 3200 boat people now on Christmas Island, and free hundreds into the community before checking their claims?”


    “Automatic detention of boat people was scrapped. From now on, those cleared of security risk would be freed while the Government worked out if they were really refugees.

    And the burden of proof would be switched. Rather than make boat people prove they were no threat, the Government would have to prove they were, to keep them detained.”

    Many hundreds of these “boat people” have already been flown on chartered aircraft to cities on the east coast, accommodated with block bookings in hotels and motels, taken on excursions to tourist attractions, coach trips to shopping malls and all, ALL OF IT, paid for by taxpayers.

    As has proved the case for decades, ALL recipients of such Labor Largess are eternally grateful and vote Labor for generations.

    Obviously the point of these “humanitarian” policies.

  84. Amanda says:

    Coldplay seems an odd name for a band. Cold — not cool, fresh, bracing — just cold. Does it have a meaning I don’t know?

    Do you like very strong vibrato, Pointman? I tend more towards the Sade side of things, in the way I sing myself and also in my taste — which, come to think of it, is really the modern fashion in popular music. I do like *some* vibrato — it’s expressive and I like the sound (lots of wavering about in Arab singing, too); but lots of it is distracting to me.

  85. Amanda says:

    Walt, I had to have an unnecessary X-ray when I came from England to the United States — (which no one bothered to look at, since of course I was perfectly healthy and was not coming by way of some other continent). Never mind the paperwork and the tedious visits to London and the fees. Illegals less well set-up than I am in every way just help themselves to the country. I think that’s unfair to the citizens, but I also think that letting them get away with it is unfair to all those that wait for years, and that go through various inconveniences, like I did.

  86. Dr. Dave says:

    Amanda, Ozboy & Crown,

    Check out the Jukebox. I shall make every effort to avoid diverting the topic of discussion here.

  87. Amanda says:

    I saw your latest additions and heard some of the guitar piece — very nice, and very faithful to the song as sung by the Everly brothers.
    Was trying to hear Emmylou but something else was playing over it so shall try again.
    Also, having recently come from Texas, I’m interested in your comments/musical commentary on that place.

  88. Blackswan says:

    Pointman’s “gang” analogy as tribal warfare has been the way of human development through history, even among those of the same race or religion, ie the current battles between sects and warlords in Iraq and Afghanistan.

    In OZ we have been hoisted on our own petard. Since our Welfare system decreed that “de facto” relationships be on an equal legal footing with conventional lawful marriage and “entitled” to all the Benefits on offer, so we have seen the flourishing of polygamous relationships as a “right” claimed under Islamic beliefs.

    So we have many situations wherein the “husband” has three or four wives and over twenty children, each “single mother” family lives in separate public housing, has access to all Services and Benefits plus a $5,000 “baby bonus” per child, while “Daddy” does the rounds. The Rules allow that an absent father can spend up to four nights a week in the “family home” and still pay the Single Parent Benefits on the grounds that “it is good for the children” to “know” their father.

    This brace of baby incubators is bound by their beliefs to hand all “income” over to their husband who then distributes it as he sees fit. You’ll usually find him down in the local shopping strip, lounging with his “brothers” in the sidewalk cafes in the sunshine – halal of course.

    As we find in our elections, Democracy is a “numbers” game. Islamists know, and they know we know, such prolific increase in their offspring will one day “give them the Numbers”.

    There will come a time, in not too many generations, when those not of the “right caste or religion” will find it hard to get a job.

    This is only one of the reasons CAGW and its Carbon Taxes driving working people into penury, is so inherently dangerous. The lower the disposable income for hard-working families, so their birth rate shrinks and, as the Welfare Classes are less affected except in terms of food and energy costs (for which they demand higher Benefits), the balance shifts and only catastrophe can result.

  89. Pointman says:

    Once, while discussing music with a friend and both of us being slightly pissed (in vino veritas), they said that I’d a habit of disappearing into rooms they wouldn’t care to visit and when I did that, she didn’t know me any more. We’ve seen each other through some dark valleys but we both know, it’s just music and we’re still good pals.


  90. Blackswan says:

    German chancellor Angela Merkel has spoken the unspeakable.


    “According to the Australian Bureau of statistics in the past year net immigration contributed 64 per cent to population growth while natural growth accounted for 36 per cent.”

    “If there is a conflict of interest cultural or otherwise that cannot be resolved, then it may even be better for the person not to immigrate, since there is a high probability of disappointment and alienation.”

    Immigration accounts for 64% population growth IN ONE YEAR? And all veeeery grateful to Labor Party Policies. Talk about a captive constituency. Now who is alarmist?

  91. Pointman says:

    Win, lose or draw, a gang’s a gang and we choose to ignore such basic stuff at our peril and I do mean peril.


  92. Blackswan says:

    Rain in Central Australia is an uncommon phenomenon…….


    Raining on the Rock is always an “event” worthy of attention

    Pictures aren’t always enough……..

  93. Locusts & Wild Honey says:

    I think Pointman wins post of the thread here.

  94. Amanda says:

    Pointman, I expect you will be rather interested in my book when it eventually comes out. And it *will* come out, trust me on that one.

    As it happens, I’ve just been reading this and wanted to share it with you all because it’s so perfect:

    ‘[One can recall] an incident in the Second Seminole War when a chieftain named Wild Cat and his warriors attacked a troupe of Shakespearean actors and carried away eighteen trunks full of Elizabethan costumes. The Indians showed up later at treaty talks dressed as Hamlet and his entourage’.

    Can you imagine?! Even if it’s not true, and apparently it is, it *should* be!

  95. Amanda says:

    ‘Gang’ or community with the will and capacity for self-defence? Gang to me is too redolent of ‘mob’. And god knows, any people has enough of them, at least in potential. I know that we are only a generation away at any given time from losing the fullness of civilization, but that doesn’t mean we should speak of ourselves as if we ourselves have lost it.

    How about a song I’ve enjoyed since I was 17: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxKCPjcvbys

  96. Amanda says:

    Pointman: Yeah, it’s just music, and it’s not just music, is it? For some people music means much more than it does to others. I’m in the former group of course.

  97. Amanda says:

    P. S. because I don’t wish to seem callous, as I’m not: I do not know what was suffered by the Shakespearean actors. I was merely thinking of the Indians wearing stage props. But that’s abstracting from the human tragedy. But then even in tragedy there is often, somewhere around the edges, absurdity. G’night!

  98. Blackswan says:

    Australian dollar still weak as Beijing policy hits resource stocks


    “The move by China’s central bank took global financial markets by surprise and hammered prices of gold, copper and oil as well as US and European sharemarkets.”

    As Locusts’ translations told us, China sees itself in “a smokeless war……to the death” and as Walt reminded us, future wars will be economic, not necessarily militarily fought.

    There is more than one way to skin a cat – Here kitty, kitty……..

  99. Well took me a while boy this has been an interesting discussion on the whole flawed multiculti thing. Looks like we are in a war for our culture and religion. It is very interesting for me as an immigrant with a Vietnamese wife and native American daughter in law (well sort sort of or my step will feel my wrath shortly). In my eclectic family we all feel American act American and want to be part of the USA and I am the Limey outsider, we eat MacDonalds go see the same movies etc and like the Tea party.

    So what I see is people want people to assimilate into the host country and become part of that culture and I hope no none has racist motivations. Islam unfortunately is one of those groups that may not be able to do this for religious reasons but Islam is not a race.

  100. Blackswan is it true that under native Aborigine custom criminals are treated to rather harsh punishments under their tribal law. You eff up and you are taken out to the back of beyond and someone puts a spear in your leg and told don’t do it again. They probably have worse punishments but that is okay for a first offense?

  101. Blackswan says:

    G’day Crown

    Yep, it’s true – a spear in the leg, and no hard feelings – the miscreant is considered to have suffered under the “law” and is expected to learn from the process. I guess the scars serve as a constant reminder of his crime.

    If the person fails to heed the warning, perhaps the next step is the Kadaitcha Man, a spiritual elder entrusted with all matters in the unearthly realm and he delivers the death sentence.

    Amongst his sacred relics are bones. He “points the bone” at the condemned one who then conveniently dies, sometimes in days sometimes weeks, but waste away and die they do. Some believe guilt does the trick – but it’s not unknown for others in the tribe to head for the hills – and stay there – until the Kadaitcha man moves on.

    Aboriginal custom and law is really interesting – we could always learn something from them.

  102. Dr. Dave says:


    Where you live a .357 mag slug to the skull is often the punishment for a first offense. I live in the land of 21 distinct “Native American” populations. It’s weird because they’re all so very very different. At the same time they’re all very much the same on the human level. These folks are actually peaceful relative to their Hispanic and Anglo counterparts. I’d much rather have a flat tire in the middle of nowhere out on the Navajo reservation at night than on the roads of northern NM. The “natives” where you live are a lot scarier than the natives where I live.

    Oh yeah, check the Juke box. I left a song for you.


  103. Blackswan that is what I thought if you cause trouble bye bye.
    Dave good music. As you know here piss off the police enough and it’s bye bye as well.
    It’s not called Memfrica for nothing there are plenty of African Americans wishing for the death penalty as well for the animals we have here.

  104. Blackswan says:

    The Wilderness Society, not even bothering to masquerade as Green politicians any more, are now in the business of directing Govt Policy and going so far as to sign agreements that will effectively shut down Tasmania’s forest logging industry in a matter of months.


    The Govt asked these unelected activists to nominate forest areas they wanted shut down and they came up with 39 of them. Five are currently being logged but the other 34 are being closed down. It will cost taxpayers up to $1.2 Billion in compensation to loggers.

    We are told Govt has no control over the Judiciary and doesn’t direct Police according to political policy, but today the Govt Forest Dept ordered Police to drop charges against Green forest protesters and the Director of Public Prosecutions not to proceed.

    These are the protesters who have trespassed into logging operations, sabotaged and damaged machinery, chained themselves to plant and equipment and put the whole shebang out of business for many weeks at a time costing loggers hundreds of thousands of dollars.

    Ah, but all is not lost. In a trade-off the Wilderness Society is “allowing” the building of a pulp mill to proceed which will pollute one of the State’s most beautiful and bountiful wine and agriculture areas, the Tamar Valley, despite an alternative more suitable site being turned down.

    Such hypocrisy is still breathtaking.

  105. Dr. Dave:

    I know what you are talking about with the B.C. foreign worker situation, as I have worked North of the border many times. What tool I use, as my work qualifies, is Chapter 16 of the NAFTA port of entry documentation procedures. This requires to you a contract compliant with this code with the Canadian client, proof of business status, scope of work and duration, and proof you are getting paid the US side of the border.

    Canadians are very hip to the currency differential, and if they need you and it is not a sucky client (which I’ve never had; grouchy, maybe LOL) they always pay you around double the US going rate in US dollars at the time of signing the contract. They also are hip to the sh*t treatment permatemps typically get our side of the border, and there is a lot of respect in Canada for the work of Tommy Douglas back in the day wherever you go, even on the part of their equivalent of the Tea Party, which is based in Alberta. The Canadian flag is half red, after all, but what it is means is they make a religion out of getting paid, a church where I worship as well LOL.

    BC sucks anyway. The most likely place in Canada for you to get shot in the face by a crackhead having withdrawal symptoms is on Vancouver’s East Side and downtown after dark. Northern BC is a lot different, and should be a part of Alberta: Fort St. John is where 90% of the USA’s natural gas has come from since the early Fifties. If you are into sweet, corny people whose idea of a good time is two-stepping in a country bar until it turns into four-stepping, the northern BC energy patch is the place for you. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99ZbBEu8ecM who also wrote this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0FiKHaSRMeg Yeehaw, etc. If you want to network with an oppressed minority, check it out sometahm. They take a lot of razzing from them there city folk, lemme tell ya!

    If you are really bored sometime, go to Google Earth, start at Fort St. John, then follow the Duke Energy/Williams Gas pipelines all the way down to San Diego. That engineering stunt makes the Pyramids look like a kid’s sandbox mud pie.

  106. “to you” should be “that you have” Bleagh, bluh, bluh, etc.

  107. Blackswan says:
    October 20, 2010 at 3:01 pm

    As with American commodities interests, Oz resources providers ought never have crawled into bed with the futures derivatives to obtain their mining activities financing: the beggars talk up the value of the commodities on the spot market, leverage the daylights out of the price through borrowing money for the next trades at usurious rates, and then the slightest market fluctuation results in a restructuring of the loans which mining companies took out from the traders’ bankers to cover the costs for sticking shovels in the ground. Bubbles always pop.

    Oz needs to do an India, as do we: prompt calls only, no futures trading, and no cash means no deal. BTW, in the States, futures trading in energy was allowed only as of 1984. The only impact of shutting down energy trades would be double the IRR for the actual mineral providers, and death by Boombah for the trading interests and their banker-breath bonehead buddies.

  108. Blackswan says:

    G’day Paperwork Bear

    It really has me flummoxed – how is all this Trading not regarded as anything other than a giant Casino? I can just bet on what something will be worth next week – and I don’t even have to buy anything. But whether and what I bet determines what the value of that commodity is. How is that NOT leaving entire economies and currencies vulnerable to manipulation? You’re right about economic warfare……It’s on…..

  109. Locusts & Wild Honey says:

    Got to love the Guardian:


    With words of the wise:
    The best advice I ever got from a transsexual person was, “Don’t get too hung up on making friends with transsexual people – just make friends.” There’s no reason why two transsexual women should get on if that’s all they have in common, any more than any other two women.

  110. Blackswan says:

    This explains much………

  111. Blackswan says:
    October 20, 2010 at 8:29 pm

    The MSM talks to us as if we were little kids, Blackswan. Oil companies now use the futures derivatives traders as banks, as they have reserves in cash the HAVE to loan out or they pay taxes on it. To top it off, traders pay oil companies and the like commissions as de facto kickbacks on their trades as a “sliding fee” for the right to play. All trades are backstopped by a specific refinery or group of refineries or suchlike, for settlement of accounts time when traders clock out and collect their boodles at the end of the trading cycle.

    When all the export and import tariffs, conveyances, shipping, duty drawbacks, transaction fees and ponty track window earnings are settled, you end up with a spot price where it is now a bit over 83 US bucks per barrel ($79 as of this morning, owing to the Chinese financial gambit they played). If things were done on a prompt call basis, no traders, no derivatives, you would, at the outside, with conveyances, be looking at a max today of 35-40 bucks/bbl or without the purely paper regulatory fines (excuse me, excise taxes and regulatory conveyances) for doing business, you would be looking at 18-20 bucks/bbl, including the dockside pour point’s margin CIF.

  112. Pointman says:

    Locusts & Wild Honey says:
    October 20, 2010 at 9:01 pm

    Count the number of times “I” and “my” occur in that piece. The world revolves totally about that person’s psyche. No wonder they’re having troubles meeting friends …


  113. Everyone forgets that currency loses its value as a result of it no longer being able to buy real goods and services. If all a million bucks buys is paper virtual work, a million bucks is worth exactly nothing. Even the most hardline Communist agrees with Adam Smith that money is the measure of work expended in quantifiable common-ground units. If currency isn’t buying work, it is worthless paper, or today, worthless electrons.

  114. If the First Nations casinos in my neighborhood conducted their affairs in the same manner Securities and Exchange Commission NASD regulated futures traders do every day, all their upper management would be behind bars.

  115. Either futures traders should be required to take loyalty oaths to their country, or they ought by law to be required to work a year at Mickey Dee’s flipping burgers before getting their licences.

  116. Locusts & Wild Honey says:

    Good point Pointman

    Paperwork bear

    I think what you are saying is that as online transactions increase, and people pay hard earned invisible money to buy products that can be sensed but not touched, they are slaves in the purest sense of the word.

    One of the DT posters goes by the name of the money system is a con…

  117. Locusts & Wild Honey says:

    How very amusing, I was just chatting about Mr. Wen’s acting skills just before I clicked on this story…


  118. Amerloque says:

    Hi Everyone !

    The dumbing down continues apace.

    Could this one be due to immigration


    Horatio Nelson ‘was French football capitain’, say children

    Children’s ignorance of British history has been laid bare in a survey today that shows one-in-20 pupils believe the Spanish Armada is a tapas dish.

    Research carried out to mark the anniversary of the Battle of Trafalgar shows many schoolchildren believe that Horatio Nelson was captain of the French national football team in the 1990s.

    Almost one-in-four also said that ships evacuated British troops from Dover – not Dunkirk – during World War Two, Walter Raleigh invented the bicycle, Captain James Cook was the captain of the Starship Enterprise and Christopher Columbus discovered gravity.

    The disclosure came in a study of 2,000 secondary school children in England to coincide with the anniversary of Admiral Lord Nelson’s defeat of the Spanish navy in 1805.

    Children aged 12 to 16 were questioned about a series of key events in maritime history over the last 200 years.

    Captain Mark Windsor, from the Sea Cadet Corps, said the poor answers highlighted the extent to which many children failed to connect with Britain’s maritime past.

    “As an island nation our relationship with the sea is a critical one since much of our food and trade passes over the oceans and our place in the world largely stems from our maritime heritage,” he said.

    “As an island nation our relationship with the sea is a critical one since much of our food and trade passes over the oceans and our place in the world largely stems from our maritime heritage,” he said.

    “But it seems children are very confused when it comes to what key historical events occurred on the sea which helped shape the world in which we live.

    “Horatio Nelson wouldn’t be impressed to learn kids think he was a football captain and Columbus’ discovery of America went completely unnoticed.

    “By picking up a book, exploring the UK and getting involved with activities on the sea, children can become much more clued up.”
    National Trafalgar Day – on Thursday – celebrates 205 years since Admiral Lord Nelson’s fleet defeated the combined might of the French and Spanish.

    But according to the survey, carried out by the Sea Cadets, one-in-20 children believe the Spanish Armada is a tapas-style cuisine.

    Three quarters did not know that Trafalgar Square was home to Nelson’s Column, with eight per cent believing it was from EastEnders, while 15 per cent thought it was a shopping centre or chocolate biscuit.

    One-in-six thought Sir Walter Raleigh was the brains behind the Chopper, not the adventurer responsible for bringing tobacco and potato back to our home shores.

    Some 14 per cent said Captain Cook starred in Star Trek rather than commanding the Endeavour on the first voyage of discovery to Australia.

    The report found six-in-10 youngsters did not know the Battle of Waterloo was fought in Belgium, with one-in-six opting for London’s train station as their answer instead.

    The disclosure comes two weeks after Michael Gove, the Education Secretary, announced a major review of the history curriculum in an attempt to revive interest in Britain’s “island story”.

    The historian Simon Schama has been named as the Government’s new “history tsar” to lead the drive.
    /// (from the DT: http://tinyurl.com/2wlv7o4

    As ol’ Alex said:

    “To destroy a people you must first sever their roots.”

    — Alexander Solzhenitsyn


  119. Pointman says:

    Civilisations don’t die because of conquest, that only happens after they’ve already died inside.


  120. Edward. says:


    On multiculturalism, Melanie says it all:

    My thoughts:
    I thought long and hard over posting this but I feel it is right.

    Multiculturalism is just another form of Apartheid, in Britain it works against the indigenous white British.
    It is a construct, borne of a Socialist desire to make some more equal than others, they (Socialists) think (in a profoundly prejudiced way) that, only white Europeans have the capacity for racism.

    How wrong headed that is.

    I have witnessed at first hand, how Indian and Pakistani workers despise their fellow African workers and how the Africans despise the Caribbeans and they all hate in varying degrees the Brits, everyone hating each other’s creeds and mores.

    There is no particular race or many people on this earth who can profess to not having been at one time or another racist.
    Except Jesus, even Mohamed was a racist.

  121. Locusts & Wild Honey says:


    I think the original motivation of multi-culturalism was a reaction against Empire, an embracing of past wrongs, and the wanting to make a fresh start. Unfortunately it didn’t work out that way.

  122. Edward. says:

    Locusts & Wild Honey says:
    October 21, 2010 at 1:33 am

    It thought it had grown out of an amalgam: the civil rights (1964) and then the marches in the deep south in the States and most definitely a reaction to Empire, (+ the excesses in South Africa).

    Archbishop Sentamu yesterday was telling Black Africa to ‘get over’ colonial rule – he is quite correct.
    The only peace Sudan has ever known was 79 years of colonial rule from Britain.

    Socialist ideologues and PC Nazis have taken it to the nth degree, there is so much hypocrisy waffled on about all of this, but know this, Multiculturalism was never based on altruism or logic.

  123. Locusts & Wild Honey says:

    At route nationalism is to many extents a bogus construct. It is one of the things that separates the modern world from that which came before. As far as I know, many of the British dominions ruled over never before linked together tribes. Maybe it is a bogus concept for a “people” to declare itself independent if that “people” did not previously exist as a quantifiable entity.

  124. Locusts & Wild Honey says:

    root not route!

  125. Pointman says:

    Edward. says:
    October 21, 2010 at 1:09 am

    Hi Ed. I fail to see anything in your post that I would find contentious. Your observations on Racism are, I think an everyman experience. Any time I want to see some raw Racism, I can watch a British football team playing an away game in some countries in Europe – every time a black player gets a touch.

    Discussing Multiculturalism is like discussing Environmentalism; the automatic thinking goes that if you disagree with one part of it then you disagree with it all. I have always been anti-multiculturalism but have always been against bigotry in all forms.

    We’ve examined the problem in this thread from all angles so the question becomes – “What is to be done?”


  126. fenbeagle says:

    I thought Walter Raleigh introduced the Raleigh Comanche chopper bike to Britain from America (more properly called the raleigh Comanche Tomahawk) This invention by the Comanche’s allowing them to hunt bison on the Texan plains before they stole horses from the Spanish.
    (Although its true he didn’t invent it himself)

  127. Walt O'Bruin says:

    Amerloque says:
    October 21, 2010 at 12:41 am

    Not to diminish the significance of the dumbing-down issue, but I wonder how many of the 1-in-20 are actually having the questionnaire folks on as they knew it was an aptitude test which would not be graded (normally these shotgun knowledge surveys are ungraded, at least here they are). If they were graded tests I believe they would have got quite different answers.

    I thought both the answers given would be quite witty if an adult held them forth over cocktails.

    While I also agree Christians do make more of an effort to be non-exclusionary in their ministrations, I also submit the most hard-bitten communitarian destroyers of social stability who are part of the governmental infrastructure in the West are former or active liberation theology 1970’s recruits to “The Cause To Off The Man.” Also, I do not think there is no lack of disturbing commonalities of worldview between those two residents of Augsburg from a tactical point of view in disseminating their beliefs, Martin Luther and Karl Marx. Neither the Thirty Years’ War nor the Communist revolutions of the twentieth century could be said to have yielded even the slightest net positive gain for the world at large. Neither man would have felt a rosy glow as a result of the work done by their followers who used what they were provided as mechanisms to build governmental monstrosities usually far worse than the political systems they superceded.

    The leftard wings of various Christian denominations have had far more negative impact in many respects on the West than anything the Kremlin could have imagined, noting particularly my former denomination, the Episcopal Church. Christian leftards are one of the largest blocs of investors in the AGW fraud. Captain Sherlock posted, amongst others, a long list of the church pension funds invested in one of the largest environmentally-responsible (i.e., windmill-building) AGW fraudsters.

  128. Walt O'Bruin says:

    I also submit that the present de facto unspoken systematic discrimination against white (I’m pink, thanks, bordering on ruddy) Judeo-Christian males of European origin makes the former system of grossly and equally unfair discrimination by skin colour and ethnicity look positively benificent. Poke at a leftard social worker who never misses a Mass or who talks in tongues about this and you will hear the entire ANC party line spouted back at you for hours. Pathetic.

  129. Walt O'Bruin says:

    Saying that does not make me a skinhead, member of the Aryan Brotherhood (although it might be fun to join, given my true ethnicity) or a prospect to join the BNP. It only means I am a member of the workforce.

  130. Walt O'Bruin says:

    None of it has to do with “racial” issues, only with who has pole position at job access and which employers get subsidised for “positive discrimination” in their hiring practices.

  131. Walt O'Bruin says:

    This has direct relevance to the immigration problem, as immigrants in several categories of employment enjoy state subsidies and preferential hire status in the USA over native-born Americans, and in the UK.

  132. toad says:

    Locusts. I really enjoy your posts from China, all very incisive, especially your early comment about Chinese and their history. Is it not the case that as far as their recent history is concerned it is better ‘not to know’, especially in conversation with ‘wayguoren’ ? Any Chinese who could claim to have read Jung Chang’s ‘Mao’ could find himelf regarded as a troublemaker. They are allowed to laugh at Japanese soldiers looking ridiculous, on TV, but I don’t think they’d be too happy discussing the ‘Great Leap Forward’ or the ‘Cultural Revolution’ just yet.

  133. Amanda says:

    Amerloque, hi. Thanks for explaining what your name means. I did wonder.

  134. Amanda says:

    Hi gang [Pointman: gang in the nice sense :^) ].
    On James’s blog, as I’m sure most or all of you are aware, we have had lots and lots and lots of a warmist (aka troll) named Aphillips (aka Aphid). For weeks and weeks, we couldn’t get rid of him. His fascination (yes, it’s a confirmed He) for the blog and the subject of AGW remained undimmed even though the bird splats of non-appreciation were being dropped on him repeatedly from on high. (That’s what happens when you’re an aphid hanging about in the trees where the birds are.)

    Just now I got this communication, even though he has rarely ever addressed me:

    Hiya Amanda.

    I look in from time to time, but it’s all quite literally deja-vu, and getting boring. Who knows? Maybe the mood will take me again, and I’ll be back in here, sucking sap like it’s about to be gouged from the public budget. But as things stand, I’m convinced that you all suffer from self-inflicted learning disabilities, and there’s no point arguing.

    Hello Aphillips,
    How lovely to hear from you.
    I’m actually learning a good deal at the moment about the Wagner family, the German language, and chemistry, but thanks so much for your concern about the progress of my education. I assure you that it will never stop.
    As for the boring sameyness of the blog — well, you make your own entertainment and your own social fireworks. I come on here to enjoy myself, and I usually do. It’s not the same for me because I always find new things to think about and new things to say.
    Cheers, and I hope you find your new hobbies rewarding.
    Amanda xxx

    Does this mean he’s leaving us forever? Well Fabian Delusions made a grand exit quite recently and we all threw flowers and other things at her retreating back. Needless to say, she couldn’t keep away.

    They always come back. Even I did! LOL

  135. Pointman says:

    Amanda says:
    October 21, 2010 at 6:49 am

    “Gang” carries a lot of bad connotations but not all gangs are bad and we are a gang here with all our markers too. I suppose I should say colours or colors …


  136. Pointman says:

    President Václav Klaus: Inaugural Annual GWPF Lecture

    “Being free to raise questions and oppose fashionable politically and “lobbystically” promoted ideas forms an important and irreplaceable part of our democratic society”



  137. Blackswan says:

    G’day Pointman

    Would this be the same Vaclav Klaus who held out on signing the Lisbon Treaty? Liked the bit in your link where he said; “Not being allowed to do so (challenge CAGW) would be a proof that we have already moved to the “brave new world” of a postdemocratic order. (I am tempted to say that we are already very close to it).”

    Gotta luv the bloke. He’s now added “postdemocratic” to “post normal/modern science”.

    Is he the only leader in left in Europe with a backbone?

  138. Blackswan says:

    In New South Wales, there is currently a hot debate on Education Policy with the Greens pushing hard for “Ethics” classes.

    These are intended for the poor children whose families don’t ascribe to conventional religion and who exclude their children from scripture classes.

    It seems nobody is asking whose “Ethics” will be espoused here.

    Obviously the Greens can spot a vacuum and a target-market and we can just see the results;

    Embrace multiculturalism – Embrace CAGW – Embrace Polar Bears, Pandas, Baby Seals – Embrace Greenpeace, the Wilderness Society etc etc etc.

    It’s all warm and fuzzy stuff – what’s not to like?

  139. Blackswan says:

    Here’s a goody.

    There is a move to forcibly sterilise unfit, abusive parents. The System (Welfare, Child Protection, Foster Parents) simply can’t cope with the the burgeoning numbers of neglected, injured and abused children of drug addicted, alcoholic, violent, paedophilic and incestuous parents.

    Wonder how that will pan out.

  140. Amanda says:

    Pointman, I started to look at your vid link — with the reference, if I’m not mistaken, to the Anabasis or the March Up Country of Xenophon and compatriots. But then it got to looking ugly, so I stopped looking. I’m a sensitive soul, you know.

  141. Walt O'Bruin says:

    Blackswan says:
    October 21, 2010 at 8:40 am

    It was done in the States as late as the 1940’s in Charlottesville and other locations in Virginia and the South. They chemically sterilize rapists and certain categories of pedo’s in many American states. If the Magic Plastic Instant Credit God which holds the West together finally gets all the debts called by its feed-in, buy-in lenders, there will reversions to former methods as well as former household budget oddities like saving, etc.

    The entire ethnic quagmire will resolve itself through separate states evolving along the lines of the big Pakistan and Bangladesh and Nigerian splits, but in North America and in Europe. They used to call that Balkanization.

    Michigan would be a nice place for an Islamic republic.

  142. Walt O'Bruin says:

    This won’t happen until we have had our fill of whole sections of the USA going through the Bosnia gong show routine. This is not a good time to enlist or re-enlist in the National Guard LOL

    The demographics are not there yet, and it is silly to think any group can do much without access to calibres over .50 or air support. Let us see what Venezuela gets up to in the not-so-distant future.

    Europe is a different beast altogether. Ethnic warfare erupting on a major scale takes place like clockwork every fifty years. Since Bosnia, etc., took place in 1990 or so, Europe has a clear run until 2040, in theory.

  143. Walt O'Bruin says:

    Blackswan says:
    October 21, 2010 at 8:30 am

    Why gooey and disingenuously kind liberation movements disguised as baby seal kissers get traction now is the illegal aspect of the concept of affection which digitization of human relations have created. De facto, being a nice and outgoing person is a crime punishable by social death. The most physically dangerous thing to be as a human being now is perfectly harmless. Millions of people live on one-person islands behind digital bars whose hearts scream for even the faintest glimmer of human kindness in evidence expressed on other than a state-approved compulsory fun basis. This state of affairs is good for the alcohol, dope, and psychiatric industries, as well as for divorce lawyers, the penal system, organized religion, but most of all for greentard kid exploders with a penchant for destroying whole nations’ capacities for industrial activity.

    It is funny in a macabre sort of way that the only common denominator found by the FBI in their research of random shooters and terrs recruited for one-way missions is they all come from strict religious backgrounds with extended families and they haven’t been laid in 10 years or more. Ban organized religion, break up all families and organize compulsory sex for all, and it will be safe to get on a plane again LOL!

  144. Blackswan says:

    Gee Walt

    Poor Michigan. You do have a long memory…lol

    These issues make one wonder – should Human Rights be accorded to those who have given no regard to such Rights for others and who, in fact, have caused lifelong injury or even death to others?

    Predictably, a plea for Rights for themselves are the first defense claimed by the Bad Guys.

  145. Blackswan… Ethics is a county to the North East of London.
    Why they wish to teach children about it I have no idea. The Estuarine twang can leave something to be desired.

  146. Walt O'Bruin says:

    We grossly underestimate how cruel was the recent past as we have forgotten most of it before the 1990’s and instantaneous communications with everyone properly cell-phoned belled cats. I seriously doubt the major issue of the 2020’s will be the Boomer generation at all. It will be the physical survival of even the physically fit throughout the West as it is in most of the world now, with the caveat and qualifier that no nation will rush to our aid with fund-raising musical telethons and taxpayer money.

  147. Walt O'Bruin says:

    Hi, Blackswan. Every Jim has their “Quadrophenia.” Michigan was probably not much different for any teenager in any industrial town anywhere. That’s how rock and roll sold in the first place: trying to get away into internal comfort zones from where you were physically at at the time. Worked okay.

    There should be reciprocity of consequences. You do bad, you have a bad day, or no more days, depending on the offence. You steal, you pay it back.

    But more importantly, there has to be an element generating the attraction for good behaviour and the stoppage of penalizing those who do good. If you are a good person and pay your bills, you end up paying that to make life cozy for the miscreants.

  148. Locusts & Wild Honey says:


    It’s hard being a bookseller in modern China. Most people prefer to watch the TV in their spare time. They work long hours anyway. Some claim that literacy levels among the city folk may have fallen, as the young generation are less likely to read the harder classics than the previous one. Anyway, proportionately not that many people read. The selection of explosive books tends to more explosive about the evil foreigners than the about the State’s former abuses of power.

    People will in private talk about the Cultural Revolution, and Tiananmen Square ’89, though those below thirty will know little about either. Half due to ennui and half just pure lack of interest. It is however a real pleasure to show a Chinese student studying abroad archive footage of these events. Ennui disappears rapidly and is replaced with the purest kind of shock.

    The easiest way to get a real conversation going is to talk about how much you love China, then slowly drop in the elements that prevent you from loving China as much as you’d like. It takes a while, but can on occaisson be an instructive lesson in the psychology of doublethink.

  149. JustMe says:

    It’s funny how Asian and Middle Eastern Countries aren’t adopting a Multicultural policy isn’t it? Do you think that China or India would stand for 20-50% of their population being from other nationalities, not likely! Some middle eastern countries make foreign workers leave every 6 months, then let them come back in to work again so that they don’t have to accept them as citizens. China is the sneakiest, they take over a territory and then breed out other nationalities until nothing is left but the traditional Chinese bloodline (Don’t believe me? Look at Tibet!).

    I can understand the relatively younger countries of Canada and the USA as being melting pots for humanity as there is no historic culture there but if Europe doesn’t put the brakes on immigration within the next 200 year European Countries will lose all there heritage and their bloodlines which will boil down to the extinction of the European races. Over the millions of years that life has been on this planet, only the strong have survived. I guess the Politically correct Europeans deserve their fate.

    A hundred years ago the only way to take over a country was to invade it. In modern times all you have to do is to do is make the country your trying to take over feel obliged to adopt multiculturalism. Let me ask all the readers this, when aboriginal Europeans are the minority how do you think the majority race in the country is going to treat you? I’ll bet it’s not going to be as accepting of multiculturalism as the you where! When it comes down to it we have been hard wired by nature to be a tribal animal who is threatened and distrustful of outsiders and this may never change.

    People in Europe need to wake up. Foreniers don’t come to Germany to become German, they come there to take advantage of what the soon to be extinct German people have created and could care less for those who live there.

  150. Pointman says:

    If you want to see that racial purity is a political chimera, take a DNA test.


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