I’m on the road at the moment, so just a brief post today.
I was most amused to read the latest article in Watt’s Up With That? concerning a climate conference that occurred a month ago in Portugal, and attended by Professors Jones and Mann of Climategate fame.
What conference, Ozboy? I didn’t read about any conference?
Neither did I. Neither did James Delingpole, or Christopher Booker, or Anthony Watts.
Because it wasn’t reported. Zero. Zip. Zilch. Nada.
I’m not surprised, either. The symposium’s title, The Medieval Warm Period Redux: when and where was it warm?, gives a hint as to why. You can check out the website here.
It almost slipped through, too. Except someone forgot to tell Portuguese climate reporter Ricardo Trigo, who published this a lazy four weeks later in something called Publico 20. You don’t have to speak too much Portuguese to get the drift of existência de um Período Quente Medieval. One of Anthony’s sharp-eyed readers spotted it, and the game was up.
Anyway, I don’t want to rehash Anthony Watts’ post too much, so go follow it up when you get a chance. It’s clear to me that the whole lot of them are looking for a way to back out of the science gracefully. And after enough of this sort of thing, governments will use it as a pretext to wriggle out of political plans they have no money to pay for anyway.
And the U.S. mid-term elections are only ten days out. Events are gaining pace, folks.
Be Responsible - Be Free! 
Ozboy you are correct the saving face begins now they will use the excuse of more data being available and by adding that blah blah blah they were mistaken but that is how science works.
Meanwhile the bunny huggers are taking a sharp turn to biodiversity see Geoffrey Leans latest blog on the DT. although this time they shall co-opt the biologists.
This more insidious as who can argue about Unicorns and Sasquatch frolicking in the wilds of Canada; people go soft when they see big eyed baby mammals which is hard wired into us, unless we are hungry.
This will be the excuse to save a lot of their pet projects like renewable energy etc and milk the peasants of yet more money. I don’t know about you but people are losing their homes and jobs so they might not be so amenable to this when money gets tight.
I think, based on my life’s experience from birth to age 32 of industrial towns and regions, air pollution tends to moderate the weather and promote steady miserable drizzles rather than the opposite effect. Have you ever noticed that tropical unspoiled climes and pristine temperate nature preserves invariably have the most violent weather? Medieval towns were smokier than cities were in the 19th century. Everything was heated with open or hearthed fires.
So, actually, air pollution is good for the climate. :>p And I have the charts to prove it. Just let me get my crayons while I re-construct the data. Pffffft.
Locusts can corroborate the above facts for me. The only place left on the planet running three shifts like 1965 Detroit is Communist China, our little friend.
crownarmourer says:
October 23, 2010 at 5:42 pm
I suspect the peasantry which is us may in fact become so incensed and irate at the plans the pink-robed and silver-starred bunny huggers have for their hard-earned tax dollar payments to the State that they may decide the most reasonable thing to do under the circumstances is to grasp the bunny huggers firmly by the ankles and whack them against you sturdy oak tree until they cease making squealing and crunching sounds upon each satisfying impact.
The MWP is of interest to climate science because it may enable a more accurate estimate of climate sensitivity and therefore the amount of warming that we can expect from the increased energy retained by the increased level of CO2
There are three issues that require elucidation.
1) Was the MWP global and what magnitude.
2) What was the source of the extra energy, the climate forcing that caused it.
3) What feedbacks amplified that forcing to generate the amount of warming observed.
Obviously, if the forcing was small, the feedbacks large and the warming global and significant then the strong evidence is that climate sensitivity is high, and the present magnitude of AGW will be that much greater.
If however GLOBAL temperatures were not much elevated, there is evidence the Pacific ocean may have been cooler, and the forcing factor was quite large then it would indicate that feedbacks are not so strong and less warming can be expected from the present energy change.
There is no retreat from science or even from AGW implied or infered from this symposium, it is on the contrary an attempt to use historical data to refine the constraints on climate sensitivity that will determine the magnitude of the present warming.
The worst projections of AGW with more than 4degC of warming would be called into serious question if the MWP was found to be associated with NO significant change in global averages. That it was a regionally and temporal y distributed variation with little overall change in the surface energy budget. Just changes in which regions of the globe were hot or cold.
This DESPITE the identification of a significant source of climate forcing that had changed the surface energy balance.
Then the conclusion would have to be that feedbacks negate rather than amplify any influence on the climate.
Then the present climate forcing from CO2 might be expected to cause similar variations, but not a significant change in global averages.
God it’s so tempting isn’t it, to think that we are getting there. But still we have an emissions trading scheme in N.Z. which basically takes money off everybody, by way of fuel and electricity levies, and gives it to ” foresters”. What’s a forester? Although I plant at least a hundred trees EVERY year, I am not a forester, for the purpose of getting my feet into the trough. Something to do with the fact that I plant all around my farm for shelter, beauty, shade, stabilisation, things like that. That’s not a forest right? Luckily, agriculture has no specific additional charges at this time, but it is proposed to tax my cows for every fart and belch.
Still, I think in a couple of years this fight might be receding. There now that was optimistic, wasn’t it?
Pattern-Searching Bear says:
October 23, 2010 at 5:50 pm.
You know Bear I believe those riotous French peasants still have their tumbrils stashed away in dark corners of their stables. It wouldn’t take much.
Bear
Depends if they seed the clouds or not. Each time they do I start looking for my Ark.
farmerbraun says:
October 23, 2010 at 5:57 pm
G’day Braun or should that be Brawn? (Takes muscle to heft those sh**p about…lol)
Here in Tasmania, a “forester” is the poor bugger who’s made his livelihood (usually for generations) in extracting hardwood from our native forests which clothe vast swathes of our mountain and mainland regions.
This week The Greens finally stitched up a deal to shut them all down – forever.
So it seems you are only a forester if you cut trees down before you replant them. As for your livestock’s flatulence – maybe they could send us the bill for all the emissions from those possums we generously sent over your way? That would create a Biodiversity Offset which would negate your farty cows. Simple really.
Walt there is a vast simmering discontent about the whole multi kulti thing, AGW especially when it costs people and the whole deindustrialization of the West that I like you are hoping that heads will roll. The hippy’s have sowed the storm now they shall reap the whirlwind. I see a lot of billionaires heads on spikes.
izen says:
October 23, 2010 at 5:54 pm
I’m glad you’ve turned up to sort out this whole vexed MWP question for me.
So we might have had warm bits AND cool bits at the same time? And what does a cooler Pacific Ocean have to with anything? You’ve told us Oceans and the Sun don’t have any effect at all – it’s only carbon dioxide that’s responsible and paying my tax to subsidise wind-toys will fix it. Are you telling me I’ve been ripped off?
Crown
I spent 3 hours last night chatting with a black British muslim. Skirted around the topic, I think I may have unintentionally offended him. He was a good guy, though very convinced that a multicultural Britain was a good thing. I think however he may have meant multi racial when he said multi cultural.
I think he was Muslim in the same way most English people are Christian.
Locusts to me race is not an issue it’s if you fit into the society you live in and don’t wish to change the host society to your needs. It’s when you worship somewhat different God’s with an agenda it becomes an issue to me.
Crown
Sure. The whole issue just confuses me. Hopefully someone will tell me what to think soon.
Good find by the way Oz.
@-Blackswan says: October 23, 2010 at 7:05 pm
“So we might have had warm bits AND cool bits at the same time?”
Thats a common historical pattern. An average global temperature can encompass both a moderate climate everywhere with few extremes, or large regional variations with extremes that cancel each other out globally.
Quote-” And what does a cooler Pacific Ocean have to with anything?”
If the MWP was a global warming similar to that we see in the present, then the sea surface temperatures will be raised globally. If it was not global, but is a pattern of warmer in one region/hemisphere, while colder in another then it has less implication on climate sensitivity and the magnitude of the present AGW.
Quote-” You’ve told us Oceans and the Sun don’t have any effect at all – it’s only carbon dioxide that’s responsible and paying my tax to subsidise wind-toys will fix it. Are you telling me I’ve been ripped off? ”
I don’t think I have claimed that Oceans and Sun don’t have any effect at all, I am sorry if that was inferred from what I have said.
The solar output has varied very little over the period when warming has occurred, so the recent warming trend cannot be attributed to a change in solar energy. There isn’t one.
The oceans can store and release energy over various timescales, but respond to, not drive, climate variations. The thermal ‘inertia’ of the Oceans has an influence on the rate at which any warming occurrs from whatever reason, but it cannot drive that change directly. Ocean currents do have a significant effect on the regional distribution of energy.
I have not advocated wind-toys as a fix, quite the opposite having pointed out the advantages of the French model of energy generation for low carbon emissions.
At present, with that background of low-carbon energy generation the French are so ‘ripped off’ that I understand they are rising in revolt at the prospect of the retirement age being raised from 60 to 62.
Some of us would welcome that kind of rip-off…
Whether the MWP was, (or was not), a global warming event similar to that we see in the present is a matter of empirical fact, not ideological belief.
Determining what Nature did during the MWP/MCA is a matter of inference from the available evidence.
As in the present, it is not a matter of which side is right or wrong, but Nature that gets the first, final and only vote on what happens.
Izen at 5:54 pm
Welcome back.
Quote “The MWP is of interest to climate science because it may enable a more accurate estimate of climate sensitivity and therefore the amount of warming that we can expect from the increased energy retained by the increased level of CO2”
You seem awfully convinced that CO2 levels have increased.
I wonder, do you have your own personal CO2 level testing kit, or do you rely on the chap on the volcano?
Perhaps you have smelt the increased levels? Not likely as CO2 is odorless.
Perhaps you have seen clouds of CO2, unless you have vision far beyond the range of human, this is unlikely as it is transparent until we get to wave number 666…
So you are relying on data from others being accurate to reach your steadfast conclusion that there is an increased level of CO2.
Any data that does not support that conclusion you reject.
The Big Lies. (Updated MkII)
It is the hottest ever!
We know all about the sun! (H/T Izen)
CO2 is poisonous!
CO2 levels have never been higher!
Warming is bad!
Despite being heavier than O2 and N2 and H2O vapour, CO2 can fly, convey, dissolve or hover everywhere!
A warming ocean that is strongly out gassing CO2 will be absorbing CO2!
The seas are acid!
The seas are rising!
The islands are sinking!
The polar bears are dying!
The solar bears are coming!
The sun does not affect the climate!
The sun does affect the climate, but only in ways that promote AGW!
Volcanoes do not produce lots of CO2!
There are too many people!
All the oil has gone!
All the ice is melting!
There was no little ice age!
There was no medieval warm period!
If there was a MWP, that proves AGW! (H/T Izen)
It is all mankind’s fault!
Realists deny climate change!
There is overwhelming proof!
The science is settled!
AGW is not a religion!
A 40% increase in nearly nothing is huge!
We need urgent policies which will result in massive population reduction over the next 200 years – otherwise we will simply die out as a species!
Big OIL finances realist bloggers! (H/T Grimble)
The models are correct; it is reality that is wrong!
We are seeing a 40% decline in phytoplankton! (H/T Job Right On)
The evidence for the anthropogenic origin of that warming continues to grow stronger! (H/T icarus62)
Windmills are not a stupid waste of time!
AGW can create a realistic communist society using Nazi methods!
The subject is well argued in thousands of academic papers! (H/T tolstoi)
Any one who does not believe our mantra is insane!
JD is irrelevant in the UK! (H/T toadstool)
The debate is over! (toadstool again!)
I am sure I have missed many other Big Lies; there are of course, all the little lies, mistakes and assumptions, which have helped towards building the Big Lies.
Nature has the final say, I have a feeling, she is about to call the lying Phlegm Globs out.
While us realists will cope, with whatever we get handed by the weather, how will you cope, those of you convinced that the weather man, that cannot tell you the weather today, will somehow, magically, be spot on in a few years time?
Then, when I had just about given up hope, you throw us a curve ball…
Quote “Then the conclusion would have to be that feedbacks negate rather than amplify any influence on the climate.
Then the present climate forcing from CO2 might be expected to cause similar variations, but not a significant change in global averages.”
It seems that you have been paying attention. The localized variations due to mankind’s influence have never been in question to the realists.
Urban Heat Island Effect is not a new phenomenon; the rapid local climatic changes that can result from deforestation are well documented. Changing the course of rivers or creating/removing bodies of water will all make a difference to the local climate.
Does this mean we are changing the global climate?
Only as much as a flea steers the elephant he rides on.
Is this new found sense of realism here to stay?
From your next post at 7:51 pm
Quote “Determining what Nature did during the MWP/MCA is a matter of inference from the available evidence.
As in the present, it is not a matter of which side is right or wrong, but Nature that gets the first, final and only vote on what happens.”
Still very realistic, has the penny dropped?
NoIdea
Izen
If there is a key on this keyboard that I can press to denote sarcasm please let me know and I’ll be sure to use it frequently. The Sun and the Oceans have EVERYthing to do with our Climate – whether I use fluoro-globes, the cold cycle on the washing machine or use Shanks’ Pony to travel the country will never have any effect whatsoever.
So why am I paying ridiculous Carbon Subsidies for Fabricated Nonsense that only profits Banksters, Hucksters & Fraudsters?
G’day to all (and the boss:>)) even you icarus,
NoIdea says:
October 23, 2010 at 8:06 pm
Fabulous post N!
Blackswan says:
October 23, 2010 at 8:06 pm
Sarcasm from you of all people Swanny, never mate!!
Sorry Izen –
I forgot you don’t like to dip your toes in the “murky waters of Politics” and how their ridiculous Climate Policies affect real people.
But just for the record……… I lurve driving my petrol-guzzling 4 X 4 all over the country and splattering grasshoppers all over the windscreen. There’s a particular satisfaction in hosing their mangled corpses out of the radiator grill.
Morning All.
NoIdea 8:06…… Great Post!! I think I love you!
Meltemian
For some reason I was reminded of this…
<– This does not look like the smiley that was intended! Or will it?
NoIdea
@-NoIdea says: October 23, 2010 at 8:06 pm
“So you are relying on data from others being accurate to reach your steadfast conclusion that there is an increased level of CO2.
Any data that does not support that conclusion you reject.”
We all rely on data collected by others.
If you have suspicions about the reliability of the data the best approach is to compare a number of independent methods of measuring the same parameter and seeing if there is consistency.
Direct measurement of CO2 levels at many locations and altitudes gives a set of data that indicate CO2 is well mixed and rising.
Indirect measurement of the spectra of downwelling IR energy from the atmosphere also indicates it is well-mixed and rising.
Shifts in the HCO3 ion balance reducing the ph in the oceans is best explained by a rise in the CO2 vapour pressure in the atmosphere above it.
There are many other sources that (plant growth, ice cores,) show similar results. Adequate to form the conclusion that CO2 is rising to levels unseen in ~10million years.
As far as I am aware the only dissenting claim is from Beck that CO2 levels are not rising and have been higher in the Holocene.
Quote-“It seems that you have been paying attention. The localized variations due to mankind’s influence have never been in question to the realists.
Urban Heat Island Effect is not a new phenomenon; the rapid local climatic changes that can result from deforestation are well documented. Changing the course of rivers or creating/removing bodies of water will all make a difference to the local climate.”
Perhaps you are not.
I was referring NOT to those anthropogenic effects, but to the possibility that past climate may indicate that a much more variable climate is the outcome of triggering climate imbalance. It is not local changes in land/river use affecting the local microclimate, but the possibility that the spread of variation may alter.
If the MWP was triggered by a small change in the energy balance which resulted not so much in a global rise in average temperatures, as in much greater variability of the climate on an intern-annual and regional basis then that has implications for how the present energy change from increased CO2 may affect the climate.
If the MWP had NO energy imbalance or change in the climate forcings, but is an example of the much greater variability and spread of climate events that is possible, then the task becomes to distinguish between that portion of the current trend that is the result of the extra energy from CO2 – and the range of variability that the climate can exhibit.
The problem with finding that the climate IS much more variable than previously expected if the MWP data indicates that, is that any ADDITIONAL change to the energy balance of the system is unlikely to increase its stability, so MORE effect may be expected from rising CO2=extra IR than with a more stable climate.
Unless you are willing to go down the ant-science route followed by the conspiracy nutters of the world, you require something more than amusing lists of cherry-picked ‘big lies’ to refute the underlying measured data.
Izen quote:
“The oceans can store and release energy over various timescales, but respond to, not drive, climate variations..”
Tell me izen, do you actually have any understanding of the drivel you write? Or do you just cut and paste idiotic phrases from RealClimate or what?
So the oceans respond to climate variations, not drive or influence them eh?
Let’s do the maths. The mass of the atmosphere is 5 X 10^18 kg, and the mass of the oceans is 1.4 X 10^21 kg, several orders of magnitude more. So the bloody great mass of the ocean responds to the piddling changes in the (by comparison) minuscule mass of the atmosphere does it?
Sounds a bit like the “floating brick” maths you’ve passed off before, izen.
Further, the specific heat of water is four times that of air. So even if their mass was the same, the atmosphere would be a poor loser.
But the masses are not the same. Multiply the mass of the ocean by its specific heat, and the mass of the atmosphere by its specific heat, compare the extraordinary difference, and basically you’re suggesting that (by comparison) the temperature of my farts determines the weather for Eastern Australia.
Hello All,
Yeah – I’m still here and still mending. Thanks for all your expressed concerns earlier on. Thanks also to Walt for the clip, although I’m still not sure of the connection between my absence and St Patrick ridding Ireland of snakes.
Special thanks to Pointman for the post on “gangs” as an explanation of where we are with multiculturism. As always, you hit the nail on the head Pointy.
izen
Have you no shame.
The third time we ever crossed swords was way back when you were defending the (then) Mann, Hansen, Jones et al team claimed the the MWP (and the LIA) never actually existed.
NOW you (and they) want to debate the extent, effect and duration of things which according to you don’t exist and never existed.
Just go take a look at Mann’s hockey stick graph. No MWP or LIA. If you like I’ll repost all your posts defending it over the last year to demonstrate your perfidy.
You’re not the only one who can cut and paste you know.
izen
Seen the long-range weather forecasts for your neck of the woods?
Got a Plan B yet?
You just KNOW every news-report I read of pensioners freezing in their homes is going to be filed under “izen – Mass Murderer”.
Izen
“I have not advocated wind-toys as a fix” – so you say…..
I will type veeery slowly so that you can “hear” every syllable.
Got your listening ears on?
YOUR endorsement of CAGW, like all the foot-soldiers of the Cause, like all the corrupt and compromised Politicians, like all the corrupt and compromised “Scientists”, like the bought & paid for Media – You ALL own CAGW. You ALL own it and you’d better WEAR IT.
It is these Baseless Claims that Co2 is a Pollutant and Coal Energy must Stop that JUSTIFIES the Absurdity of Wind Turbines, will bring our Economies Crashing and drive People into Penury .
Geddit?????
Hi Blackswan – well said.
Well – that’s it. Thumper says it’s my beddy-bye time and I’ve learned not to argue.
I may not be posting, but rest assured – I’m here – reading.
Hello MV
Good to see you. Hey, we DID get some Spring this week – well one day anyhow – 27 degs yesterday!! Back to 15 today – not that I’m complaining. Stay well and regards to Thumper.
Cheers.
NoIdea says:
October 23, 2010 at 8:06 pm
Super post – as always. You’ve covered it all….and there are still no answers.
Edward says:
October 23, 2010 at 8:27 pm
G’day Ed
Sarcasm? Moi? My sarcasm is pretty limited to people’s narcissistic prattle, like izen’tit? for example. Otherwise I’m just an easy-going old chook.
‘Night MV – We’re all so glad you’re back with us, reading it all if not posting. Tell Thumper from me that she’s quite right to keep you in check!
@-Blackswan
“Got your listening ears on?
YOUR endorsement of CAGW, like all the foot-soldiers of the Cause, like all the corrupt and compromised Politicians, like all the corrupt and compromised “Scientists”, like the bought & paid for Media – You ALL own CAGW. You ALL own it and you’d better WEAR IT.
It is these Baseless Claims that Co2 is a Pollutant and Coal Energy must Stop that JUSTIFIES the Absurdity of Wind Turbines, will bring our Economies Crashing and drive People into Penury .
Geddit?????”
Absolutely.
Given this clear example I will in future ascribe to you and any others who deny the basic facts of AGW a common shared belief in the anti-science of creationism, anti-vax campaigners and the Koch and Exxon funded ‘think-tanks’ spurious drivel.
Despite the fact you may have never explicitly exspoused such opinions or have expressedly repudiated them.
If you make baseless claims about the neutral influence of CO2 or the absence of detectable warming then you ALL own the same anti-science, reality denying agenda of the fossil fuel industry and conspiracy theorists.
memory vault says: October 23, 2010 at 10:35 pm
“izen
Have you no shame…..(blah blah blah)….
Just go take a look at Mann’s hockey stick graph. No MWP or LIA. If you like I’ll repost all your posts defending it over the last year to demonstrate your perfidy.
You’re not the only one who can cut and paste you know.”
Go for it.
I wager it will take a fair bit of editing and cherry picking to avoid you coming out worst from such a review of that exchange.
crownarmourer says:
October 23, 2010 at 6:47 pm
Those who fall more readily to hand are the leftard leftover government jobsworths one runs into in the course of the day, all of whom have the massive zit of walking cognitive dissonance blemishing their foreheads (“I care about the poor, and live in the burbs to get away from them, I love the American worker which is why I drive a rice-burner, etc.”). It really isn’t normal to expect another American beside myself to be a regular reader of the online DT, but our government slouchy stumbling disservants are deathly aware of the impending threat of being laid off as are to be 500,000 British government sneering paperwork misplacers. Definitely got their attention. How we normally do it in the States to save the government ready is to work it out with the government unions through kickbacks to first fire all of them, set up a Malthusian maze to force them into giving up on the re-hire process, flip the perm government jobs to temp re-hires, and Bob’s yer uncle. Works a charm.
Memory Vault: visualize St. Pat as yerself, and the snake as a troll. The “snakes” that Italian surveyor eliminated were of course the variable borders the leftards of his day, the Druid priests and priestesses controlled the defining thereof: all you had to do is come up with a bribe and voila! your property line moved a couple of hundred yards into your neighbors’ allocation. That’s where all the Celt turf wars of those days arose, from Druids messing with the minds of their fearful superstitious congregations. One honest land surveyor put that rubbish to the death forever. Metaphysical fraud by cynical “we know what’s best for you” artists are nothing new.
As so it is with the global climate fraud, though there appears now to be a welcome surfeit of greentard snake squooshers.
Proposition 23, the California Jobs Bill that disempowers the AB 32 environmental mechanism in favour of creating work for the masses, is the thin edge of the wedge to drive the entire greentard horde into the La Brea Tar Pits for eventual recycling as boiler fuel.
Amazing post as always, Izen. Thanks for sharing. Odd how the greentards aren’t chewing on Communist Chinese arse over the issue, innit? I don’t see greentards in mass demonstrations against the new ANC-“created” South African 1,600 MWe coal plants, either. Funny thing.
Isen what is it with you and creationists? Me thinks you doth protest too much and may actually be a closet one! As I said before and as you distorted (as usual) at least that bunch of fruitcakes aren’t ever going to cost the taxpayers of the west trillions of $’s in respect of their peculiar theorys unlike you and your fellow cultists!
NoIdea, that is the first time I have ever seen the entire litany of leftard madness spelled out in one list. Brilliant.
The one thing we have to be grateful to the leftards for is that after this lot of greenshirt fraudsters are prosecuted and locked away, we won’t see another lineup of leftards for political ascension to power for at least another 20 years.
The Splattergate video, the Zyklon B threat but with explosives, having cooled done a mite, it is obvious Richard Curtis’ script is the bravest thing done since Heartfield and Grocz took on the Third Reich with their satirical cartoonery and collage work. What’s funniest about Splattergate is Mr. Curtis got the very swine he opposes to pay for his masterpiece. Hogarthian in its boldness, accuracy of character description, nausea-inducing splendour and impact.
Hello everyone.
Well what I have I just got in this morning’s post? Yes, all the way from Australia, my ceremonial 10,000th-comment Vegemite! It says ‘concentrated yeast extract’ and I can believe the concentrated bit: considering how small the jar is, it weighs a ton. If the pounds pers square inch pressure in that jar could be transferred proportionately to an elephant, that elephant would self-depress through the earth half way to the planet’s core! I do enjoy Marmite, but Oz tells me (I think it was Oz) that Vegemite has a rather different flavour. Perhaps I’ll do a blind Marmite – Vegemite test and see if I can guess which is which.
THANK YOU, OZ! After all this talk (started by me, if I’m not mistaken) about prizes for hitting big round numbers, somebody actually got one, and it was me. :^)
Odd no one has come up with a recounting of the fallacy of historical reconstruction, the classic archeologists’ and forensic scientists’ dilemma most pertinent to these debates. Again, this is to be ascribed to the near-total absence of licenced professionals in these fields in blogs on the subject at hand. It is especially an issue with digital seismologists who make computer models upon which oil patch developers bet millions daily. Please see http://www.digitalenergyjournal.com
Congratulations, Amanda! Is the yeast still live? Can you make bread with it?
Amanda, I really am starting to like Russell Brand a lot, if not his comedy routines so much (George Burns and countless other once bad-boy comedians changed styles as they matured, too). I look forward to seeing him in “The Tempest,” with Dame Helen Mirren.
http://apnews.myway.com//article/20101022/D9J10BUO0.html
It is refreshing to see the English gentleman at work defending his privacy and personal honour, and that of his woman.
Gallantry will never die, methinks, in the soul of the British male.
Hi Walt as usual your take on these shysters is spot on! You have to wonder if any of them have ever done a honest days work in their sorry miserable self loathing lifes? What is it with these strange people who only ever see the worst in everything, the end is nigh NOT, we’re all going to hell, the planets dying, its all our fault, we can actually influence a chaotic climate system, mea culpa, we know better than you, its a concensus, al gore said so. My take on it is if they actually believe all this twaddle well f**k off and live YOUR lifes to the exating standards you expect of the rest of us. I am truelly sick and tired of being lectured to by people who for all intense and purposes have never lived in the real world. The sooner the charade is exposed at cancun the better then we can all get on with living our lives, looking after our families and re-building our economies! As you say if a fraction of the $’s that has been spent on a non-existent problem that even if it did exist there is the square route of f**k all we could do about it had been spent on investing in Industry, training for the next generation etc the world would be a better place. Oh for some leaders with foresight not these socialist clowns we have to endure!
Walt, you could put a touch in for added flavour, I suppose, and actually I did experiment with Marmite one time when I’d nearly run out of yeast — but no, you need the little live yeast granules to make a nice risen bread.
Watching The Leftards Twist On My Blade Bear says:
October 24, 2010 at 2:15 am
I’ve been thinking about that 10:10 thing. It’s not so much the video; it’s the people who produced it. Hundreds of thousands of pounds were spent and hundreds of people were involved over many months, in bringing it to completion. Surely someone somewhere along the line thought it was a bad idea? We’re human beings. We all know that if you try to hurt our children, you’ll be met by a ferocity that can only come from the deepest most basic primordial Id. That reaction is not cultural, it’s hardwired into the genes. Even the worst scumbag parent in the world would come at you, if only on the basis of it was their job to hurt their children. What’s wrong with them? Why didn’t they see that? How couldn’t they?
Look at the first, almost flip non-apology they made when they had to withdraw it a few hours after it was unveiled. Rereading it through their eyes, they meant every word of it. It was sincere. There was nothing wrong with the video; it was our fault for finding it repulsive. They simply couldn’t see our viewpoint and still don’t.
That blind spot in their humanity should be called tentenism and they are tentenopic; they simply do not see.
Pointman
Izen
Quote “We all rely on data collected by others.”
Not all of us. Some of us go outside and see for ourselves.
Quote “Shifts in the HCO3 ion balance reducing the ph in the oceans is best explained by a rise in the CO2 vapour pressure in the atmosphere above it.”
The shift from 8.1 to 8.1 at an alarming rate!
Quote “Unless you are willing to go down the ant-science route followed by the conspiracy nutters of the world, you require something more than amusing lists of cherry-picked ‘big lies’ to refute the underlying measured data.”
Adam and the Ants
Well I’m standing here looking at you
What do I see?
I’m looking straight through
Its so sad
When you’re young
To be told
You’re having fun
So unplug the jukebox
And do us all a favour
That music’s lost its taste
So try another flavour –
Ant-Science
Well I’m standing here what do I see?
A big nothing
Threatening me
Its so sad
When you’re young
To be told
You’re having fun
Don’t tread on an ant he’s done nothing to you
There might come a day
When he’s treading on you
Don’t tread on an ant you’ll end up black and blue
You cut off his head
Legs come looking for you
Of course I cherry picked the big lies list!
There is no way to list them ALL, as they keep spouting fresh ones.
Do you have some more I should add?
NoIdea
Walt, just read your post (the one with ‘tutu’ in it) from the other thread. Now that I’m awake and not heading off to bed. Very interesting. I agree that this modern idea that simply being a cog in the machine is supposedly to be deeply personally fulfilling — and there’s something wrong with you if it isn’t: virtually a firing offence — is ludicrous, insulting, and unworkable. It used to be that you could go into a job and as long as you did it conscientiously and didn’t make everyone else’s life a misery, that was good enough. Get your pay, go home and forget it. Now, the work world wants to cram itself into every moment of your existence, and you’d better damn well enjoy that fact. That’s not freedom: that’s tyranny.
Pointman: That’s why we need prisons for criminal offenders: some people are dangerously unteachable. If ‘you’ really can’t see why you shouldn’t break into someone’s home and bosh him on the head to steal the silver, then the only place for you is safely behind bars where you just can’t do it. I would so much prefer for people to learn, and to see if not the full truth (we’re not gods) at least as much as can serve us all. But barring that, the innocent need to be protected. If these campaigners have got to full maturity (I use the term merely in the chronological sense!) and they can’t see what’s wrong with their actions (never mind their goals), then they probably won’t.
Still, you never know. People’s views do evolve. I just learned yesterday that Mo Tucker, the drummer for the Velvet Underground, who has been a Democrat all her life, is now an outspoken Tea Partier.
Pointman, a fascinating word, all I could find was…
Tentenopia
Defect in vision that enables the afflicted to only see what they need to see to re-enforce their religious bent.
Due to an hysterical response to fatuous remarks given overwhelming precedence to create hysteria.
A blind spot in one’s humanity.
An affinity with bacteria and insects, other lower order life forms.
Are there more definitions?
NoIdea
‘probably never will’, I meant to say.
Pointman: Does your interest in vision have anything to do with an interest in colour? These are both interests of mine, colour being the main thing. I have a wonderful scientific book (but highly readable and well illustrated) called Colour In Nature, and another one called The Color Of Nature, which is also describes the physics of colour but best of all has the most wonderful photos. And then of course there are all my art books and my watercolour pencils….
Hello, Amanda. It would not be so bad if people could get things done in that environment. Also, I have found the situation towards temps has evolved into a Naomi Campbell relationship between perms and temps: we are not so well treated now as we were back in the day, mostly I think out of jealousy. We do not have to put up with the cultural weirdnesses of corporations as we are just there to do a job and go home, if we are not doing our work from home.
Also, people just “be themselves” now, a daycare inheritance (“Don’t hide from us what you think, dear, it’s not honest,,,etc.”) and feel infinitely free to splatter you with their brainturds at will if they feel they outrank you in the corporate garbage pile.
That invasion of one’s psychic territoriality is now a standard feature of even social events anymore. It is quite disturbing to note how thoroughly people police their own minds and those of others. It is illegal to even not like other people simply because of silly agendae.
splatter you with their brainturds at will if they feel they outrank you in the corporate garbage pile.
A charming image.
I suggest we do up a poster with that emblazoned on it, and you can pin it up on ‘Take Your Daughter To Work Day’, Walt. Just to show that you’re in with the spirit of things. :^)
Anti-Workplace Bear: Yes. Compartmentalization of life’s activities can really be a most excellent thing. In other words: bug off, business, and leave my psyche alone!
Amanda says:
October 24, 2010 at 3:25 am
“Does your interest in vision have anything to do with an interest in colour?”
Yes. I started with colours and researched how we actually see them. Again the mind processes them in intriguing ways. Don’t you find the idea that a colour is a concensus construct fascinating? Red is red because we all agree it’s red. If someone else doesn’t agree it’s because their eyes dont operate well in that spectrum ie partially or totally colour blind.
There’s a poster here who sees deeper into the red end of the spectrum and therefore has very good night vision.
Pointman
Anti-Workplace Bear says:
October 24, 2010 at 3:35 am
Hi Walt. I may have located some items on your wish list. Pop into AJAX when it’s back up. Seems to be down at the minuite.
Pointman
memory vault says:
October 23, 2010 at 10:26 pm
It’s really good to hear you’re on the mend. We’ll get Ozboy to book these two in at the B&G to get you up and jigging again!
Pointman
Pointman says:
October 24, 2010 at 4:27 am
Cool!
I should mention also: the major reason the academic community is backing off is that many institutions face the prospect of certain universities’ and/or researchers’ departments facing de-accreditation on both the matter of their credentialed and therefore presumed expertise and on the basis of ethical conduct.
Bleagh. What a paragraph. Break time LOL!
Blackswan:
Please see prior post, as I responded to your reply there.
Just did the Izen’t routine on Gargle using the search terms “de-accreditation climate” and look at the nifty internal document on accreditation of wind project developers and other project circus barkers. Wow! Amazing!
Click to access 8426.pdf
Also, check out “de-accreditation University of Virginia” and “de-accreditation George Mason University.” Try on UEA and IPCC, etc., too, if you are up to it.
post keeps dissapearing from the JD blog:
2010 Antarctica Peer-Reviewed Research: Ice Core Data Confirms Medieval Period Warmer Than Present
http://www.c3headlines.com/2010/06/2010-antarctica-peerreviewed-research-ice-core-data-confirms-medieval-period-warmer-than-present.html
“Scientists using the latest analysis techniques, conducted a high resolution analysis of the ice core retrieved from Antarctica’s Dome C station. The Dome C is located on the eastern half of Antarctica, on the polar plateau with an elevation of 10,607 feet. (The more well-known Vostok polar station is located on the same plateau at a similar elevation.)
What did this new high resolution analysis determine?
1. The Medieval Warming period had temperatures that approached 1°C higher than current temperatures, in spite of lower CO2 levels.
2. The Minoan Warming period had temperatures that possibly exceeded current temperatures by 1°C, in spite of lower CO2 levels.
3. The previous interglacial period, approximately 130,000 years ago, had temperatures in excess of 4°C versus current temperatures, in spite of lower CO2 levels.
Clearly, the new ice core data indicates that natural climate variations caused huge temperature variations in the past. Based on this empirical climate science, it would be safe to conclude that current climate changes are predominantly driven by natural forces, not human CO2 trace gas emissions.”
Don’t imagine a green planet. Imagine a world with 50,000-100,000 “scientists” losing their black robes, wands, and magic conical black hats with the twinkly half moons and stars.
Not to mention their tenure, grants, subsidies, fraternity memberships, association memberships, special parking privileges, 24/7 access to their grad assistants’ lithe young bodies, the timeshare in the Caymans, etc., etc.
Pointman: cones and rods etc. But as you say, who can know for certain that we are all seeing the same colour in the same way? Who is it then that can see the purrty reds especially well among all those other purrty colours on Ozboy’s graph up top?
Interesting that another book I have on pigments says that the first colours to be named were red, black, and I believe, white and yellow. It seems counter-intuitive. You’d think they’d want to mention the sky (blue) and foliage (green). But then these people — whoever and wherever they were — probably saw most or all of blue in the sky and green on leaves so they didn’t need separate colour terms: ‘sky’ and ‘leaf’ would be sufficient, I suppose. And if they lived in scrubby land or semi-desert it may be that rich ‘greenery’ was not really what they saw. I shall have to consult the book again, but I don’t recall that it describes their environment. But if you think of the earliest known peoples — whose language is still extant somehow — they include marsh Arabs that would be looking at green reeds at the very least. Sorry if I’m showing my ignorance here.
Hi Oz, not sure if this has been mentioned before, apologies if so, but this is an important article, partly for what it says, but more importantly where it says it.
This is the main op-ed article in the newsprint DT! I do not believe that we have seen the like before. I smell the sea air of change, a quickly cooling sea at that according to AMSU-A.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/charlesmoore/8081276/Spending-Review-Honesty-is-the-best-policy-before-the-bigger-fuel-bills-start-to-bite.html#disqus_thread
ScouseBilly, hi.
The other day I e-mailed to a scientist friend one of your posts about Margaret Mead (sans the controversial/provocative statement about the purpose of the pro-faux-AGW campaign). He has mentioned her to me more than once, and I told him that his sainted M. M. was really not so saintly.
He e-mailed back, showing me an exchange he had with a colleague — unfortunately I really can’t name names — prompted by my remarks/your post (I didn’t name you, either):
Scientist A (my friend) to Scientist B:
I ran across this phrasing the other day and am unaware of its basis…Do you know if it has any?
>>Mead—whose 1928 book on the sex life of South Pacific Islanders was later found to be a fraud….<
Scientist B:
Yes, I know exactly what that person is talking about. In 1983, Derek Freeman, a renowned lunatic and bully at Australian National University, published a book with Harvard University Press called Margaret Mead and Samoa: The Making and Unmaking of an Anthropological Myth. In that book, he claimed that Coming of Age in Samoa was not only misleading, but its depiction of Samoa is inside out—that Samoans, rather than being easy-going and sexually liberated, are among the most repressed, puritanical, and violent people in the world. He further claimed Mead made that colossal mistake because she been imbued by Boas with a perspective of extreme cultural relativism (or, as Freeman put it, “cultural determinism”). He argued that she went to the field determined to prove Boas right and didn’t pay attention to the data. Freeman’s book came out five years after Mead’s death, so she was unable to defend herself. He was tireless self-promoter and followed the first book with another (The Fateful Hoaxing of Margaret Mead) plus a widely-distributed film purporting to show that she was not exactly a fraud but was duped by a teen-aged girl who was pulling her leg as a kind of joke. In truth, Mead was not the best field worker and made her share of mistakes. Clearly, Freeman knew Samoa a lot more intimately than Mead did, and if I wanted to confirm an ethnographic detail I’d look to Freeman rather than Mead. In terms of having a broad empathic understanding of the Samoan cultural ethos, however, my sense (from having been there, from knowing a number of Samoans, and from having several friends who have done extensive fieldwork in Samoa) is that Mead was closer to the truth. In any case, Margaret Mead and Samoa set off a huge firestorm and started a minor industry within our discipline, to which I made one small contribution in the attached article. That article led to a rather interesting correspondence with Freeman that I can tell you about if you’re interested. Earlier this year Paul Shankman published a book called The Trashing of Margaret Mead, which should be the last word on the subject. We’ll see…. Hope this answers your question.
—–
I have not yet looked at the attachments that came with this message, but I’m interested to know what you think of it.
I read Growing Up in New Guinea–actually Olaf assigned it when I was a graduate student and thought it was an outstanding work on cultural relativism. However, I did not follow her career closely. Essentially, I want to pick your brain….Any idea what the above person is talking about?
Sorry, the last paragraph there was part of my friend’s question to his colleague — obviously in the wrong place.
ScouseBilly: Is it not amazing that Scientist B frankly admits that Mead was a slapdash and pre-judging ‘field worker’ (notice he doesn’t her call her ‘scientist’) and admits also that Freeman is the one to trust and rely on, while at the same time saying airily and vaguely that Mead was ‘closer to the truth’? Closer to the truth of what? I think that word ’empathic’ gives us a major clue. Quite simply, Mead is more palatable.
Sorry, me again. I also find completely risible the contradiction between the casual slander that opens the communication: Freeman was a ‘renowned lunatic’ (you mean, a non-Leftist?) and ‘bully’ (you mean, he wouldn’t be intimidated by the overwhelming Leftism of universities?) — and yet, his ethnographic details are the ones to be trusted. So the renowned lunatic is right in the need-to-know essentials and Mead is wrong — but, her heart was in the right place. Or so we are to believe.
And by the way, the fact that she was dead when a critique of her work was made is neither here nor there. Science is science. If hers was flawed and she was influential and widely known, then it was incumbent upon someone that knew the truth to make that clear to the world.
I said to my friend: I don’t ruddy care where her heart was if she was telling porkies to the public and making stuff up.
He may possibly soon be an ex-friend. We’ll see.
Possibly the reason the alarmists are in retreat is the continuous stream of peer-reviewed research that challenges the AGW fiction. This site has some 500 plus postings covering the PR studies supposedly (have not attempted to count but it appears to be well over 200): http://www.c3headlines.com/peer-reviewed-studies/
Green Sand says:
October 24, 2010 at 6:19 am
Saw your link in the DT yesterday and “I have spoken to several people from America and Australia who are studying it with forensic interest” got my attention.
ALL, repeat ALL, of our current economic woes are the direct result of Labor hare-brained Policy. They came to power in 2007 inheriting Billions of Dollars in Surplus only to plunge Australia into Mega-billion Dollar generational Debt.
Blaming the International Financial Crisis isn’t cutting it, as we were in a unique position due to increased demand for raw materials from China and India. Our recent election saw Labor seize power from the majority-elected Liberals by signing “behind-closed-door” deals with the Greens.
Labor is in Government but the Greens are in Power.
No amount of “forensic interest” in how the Brits are swallowing the bitter pill of Austerity and resultant footwork by the SPINmeisters, will ever convince most Australians that Labor/Green Politicians aren’t culpable.
The Lies, Graft & Corruption continue apace.
Amanda says:
October 24, 2010 at 6:14 am
CHECK THIS OUT, IZEN. THIS IS MADE FOR YOU. Adecco, one of America’s leading labour pimps, is promoting paid green blogging.
http://knowygen.blogspot.com/2009/10/green-blogging-to-recruit-gen-yers_27.html
Your lot has made such a stink about us possibly being paid shills for corrupt economic interests. Here is YOUR chance at the big time to throw on some slap, a platinum blonde wig, leather miniskirt, spikes and fishnets, and trot the curb during rush hour with the best of them LOL
If you can, pick up a copy of “The Metamorphosis of the Gods” by Andre Malraux, an amazing book which covers the range of visual arts from the cones and rods to their role in crafting cosmologies for civilizations and beyond.
Art F. says:
October 24, 2010 at 7:54 am
G’day Art – what a great link – thanks.
In OZ you hear none of this back-tracking material in the MSM, because justifying the money-raking Carbon Taxes and Renewable Energy policies proceeds at fever-pitch.
Amanda says:
October 24, 2010 at 6:14 am
“… the first colours to be named were red, black, and I believe, white and yellow.”
An interesting idea. There’s no way we can possibly know which colours first acquired names but I imagine they were all associated with food or descriptions of food. Beyond the basic red, green and blue I suspect, using what I call ‘projected thinking’, that the more subtler hues came from watching a fire.
I have an annual thrash on my birthday which culminates in a bonfire. Half the people are there for the BBQ but the rest are just waiting for it to get dark, at which point I throw the coals from the BBQ onto the palettes. The ‘fire people’ immediately, and I mean immediately, make a circle around the bonfire and the rest retreat indoors. The fire people always come around to discussing the colours they’re seeing in the flames. They usually keep burning palettes until the Sun comes up.
Pointman
Hi, Amanda. This was meant for you, not Izen LOL :>p
If you can, pick up a copy of “The Metamorphosis of the Gods” by Andre Malraux, an amazing book which covers the range of visual arts from the cones and rods to their role in crafting cosmologies for civilizations and beyond. http://www.abebooks.com is the place to go for the cheapest deals.
BTW I have a marvelous carbon footprint and not ashamed of it …
Pointman
Walt O’Bruin says:
October 24, 2010 at 8:08 am
Hey Walt, I think your suggestion about the wig etc was a little off – he’s much more suited to his current predilection……kerb-crawler.
Besides, he’d never give value-for-money.
Art F. says:
October 24, 2010 at 7:54 am
Hello Art, welcome to the Bar & Grill. What an interesting link. Another one added to the watch list. Doh!
Pointman
Pointman says:
October 24, 2010 at 8:12 am
“I have an annual thrash on my birthday which culminates in a bonfire.”
Lucky you. In OZ bonfires are no longer allowed, along with burning raked piles of autumn leaves or the once-handy backyard incinerators. Any ideas for a neighbourhood bonfire with fireworks have been scuttled by having to have permits, public-liability insurance and a licensed “explosives” expert – all under Health and Safety Regulations.
If the anti-smoke Green Police don’t get you, the OH&S guys will.
Have fun next birthday – for all of us…lol
Pointman: I love the sound of your birthday thrash and would definitely be a fire person.
As for the colours, well you’re quite right — I’m sure the author of the book put it less definitely than I did and used all sorts of maybes and howevers. Anyway his point was that the important distinction early on was between light and dark. This brings ups various thoughts to me: how early on in its development did H. sapiens have acute colour vision as against what dogs have? — Dogs being very good at seeing greens and blues (as much the same thing, hence it’s hard for a dog to spot a blue ball on a green lawn) and not so good as the red side of the spectrum, such that red looks vaguely dark/greyish and pink looks light greyish, etc. (This is what we’re told.)
But humans respond to colour in an emotional, artistic fashion, so it’s hard to imagine that a full-blown human (mentally as well as physically) would be *satisfied* with ‘dark’ and ‘light’ (or variations thereof). What if Urk in his cave saw the meadow flowers and developed a fascination for pink? He might become obsessed with pink. There’s no survival value in being obsessed with pink, but that’s the human genius for you. Anyway, if he could speak or assign sounds to things, he’d want to name it wouldn’t he?
In fact I have enjoyed bonfires in England as a child, but they probably don’t allow them there now, either.
Walt, thank you for the book recommendation. I shall no doubt buy it, put it on my shelf, and read it five years from now. Deep backlog, you know. :^)
Blackswan says:
October 24, 2010 at 8:34 am
Strangely enough, I look into the flames and usually remark at some point “Wonder how long the bastards will allow us to do this?”. People think I’m kidding. In any event, I’ll do it anyway; screw them. Worth it to see the Sun coming up.
Pointman
Amanda….But as you say, who can know for certain that we are all seeing the same colour in the same way?
Actually we don’t for example I am red green colourblind (there are two types of this), I can see green and red but when mixed they become confused and mixed together. However recent research has actually shown that the spectrum of light I can see in is shifted slightly along the spectrum. Which means I get to see colours you can not unless you are also colourblind. Apparently colourblind people make good snipers as they can spot someone camouflaged easily.
Then there is the issue of what the brain does with the information it receives but that literally is a whole book in itself.
Crownarmourer:
I’ve what’s called flat-field disorder, which should explain my fixation with Payne’s grey and Davey’s grey in my paintings, which give them depth. I’ve no luck at all judging distances except based on relative size, but again, as you say, removing one element of visual confusion often adds to the utility of one’s perceptual assets. My night vision, for instance, is too good, I think.
Hearing is also part of most people’s vision, though they may not know it.
My mouth is part of my imaging, and I do know it. heh heh heh
You were asking for that one, Walt :^)
Hi Amanda,
I only just got your message at the DT – had to satisfy my addiction for the last hour and a half* 😉
I first came across Margaret Mead many years ago when I was a psychology undergrad dating a social anthropologist. To cut a long story short I’m not so perturbed by the allegations and counter allegation regarding her work but more concerned with her involvement in the eugenics movement and, hence collaboration with Maurice Strong at the beginning of the global warming hoax/fraud.
It is interesting that she still provokes controversy within anthropological circles.
SB
* a Swedish detective series, Wallander – you may know it 😉
Amanda says:
October 24, 2010 at 8:54 am
Dogs, I suspect, are a special case. I don’t know much about the parameters of their eyes (first researcher who starts opening one up gets a visit from me btw), but they have such an acute sense of smell. They live in a world of scent, vision and sound.
I met a man once who said his dog had developed the habit of running around him and his family when they went for a walk. They’d learnt to not trip over him. It irritated him no end and he was a very ‘proper’ type, though he loved the dog. I didn’t have the heart to tell him his dog had gone blind, for fear he’d do the ‘proper’ thing. As Ned said, such is life …
Pointman
Crown:
‘Which means I get to see colours you can not unless you are also colourblind’.
Neat!
How does anyone establish this? Does that mean you can see into ultraviolet? Or infrared, more likely.
Pointman: do you think that someone that really loved his dog would do that? Not anybody I’ve ever met! It’s funny because my mother-in-law has said that if reincarnation happens (she was joking), she wants to come back as Chummy. Because she’s given every comfort and consideration and loved to bits. And the other day — this week — a neighbour in a car who has obviously seen us on walks leaned out of her car window and said ‘when I die, I am coming back as that dog!’
Blackswan says:
October 24, 2010 at 8:05 am
“No amount of “forensic interest” in how the Brits are swallowing the bitter pill of Austerity and resultant footwork by the SPINmeisters, will ever convince most Australians that Labor/Green Politicians aren’t culpable.”
I will have to apologise for not being able to accredit this statement and to the author for probably not getting it verbatim, it goes something like:-
“We don’t need politicians to get things done.
We need politicians to get things undone.
If that can’t do that, we will give them a fair hearing
Followed by a nice hanging.”
If governments persist with their “bread and circuses” policies there will be the inevitable reaction, the laws of physics say equal and opposite, the rule of opinion is opposite but very unequal and potentially very nasty.
They will retreat, they are already doing it, prodded with sharp sticks.
An op-ed in the DT, a decade late, but appreciated.
Green Sand says:
October 24, 2010 at 9:22 am
Ronald Reagan said it in a nutshell. Government isn’t the solution, government is the problem.
Pointman
Perhaps but ‘proper’ people have a habit of doing what their head tells them rather than their heart. On judgement/humanity decisions, I’d go with the people who aren’t quite ‘proper’ every time. Look at what a scoundrel Oscar Schindler was and yet what he achieved. There are players and places.
Pointman
Walt, AJAX seems to have flatlined. I’ve re-sent the email. Let’s go with email until it’s resussed.
Pointman
We will always be the majority led by the few, occasionally the few that actually influence life come from the majority rather than from authority. When they do we make progress.
Progress is usually painful, but it is always painful when planned by an authoritarian view on what progress is. We are far better left to our own devices, we bark our shins, we learn we move on. When not allowed to think for ourselves we fester and as the most destructive creature on this sphere we have the ability to produce amazing consequences.
Have fun
Hello, Pointman. No joy. It is kaflutz still.
Walt, dropped the firewall. Go again bud.
Pointmam
amanda I can not remember the article myself but it was curious as I can see colours I tend to be able to see things when out and about that a lot of people miss unless it’s my car keys or shoes. To me a lot of green shades tend to look grey. It is when you mix colours together it gets to be an issue as I can get a strobe effect going as the colours shift from green to red and back. The Fall foliage is well disappointing to me.
As for dogs they are bichromatic and can see in two colours and their eye sight reacts to movement they can not focus up close like a person. Dog eyesight is optimized for hunting at dawn or dusk a bad time for game animals.
I am not sure which end of the spectrum my eye sight is shifted but it will not be much, birds can see in four colours.
Amanda…..a neighbour in a car who has obviously seen us on walks leaned out of her car window and said ‘when I die, I am coming back as that dog!
As reincarnation is nonlinear relative to time they may have achieved their wish.
Walt yes I do have some issues with judging distance but that is because one eye is a lot weaker than the other.
ScouseBilly, thanks for your reply. I hear you. I have not sent on your other eugenics-and-global warming posts yet. However, in for a pfenning…. That shall be next. Who knows how that will be received. Probably with even less enthusiasm than the gambit. Still, my ancestors were not warriors for nothing*.
*I claim no special status in that. All our ancestors were warriors, if you go back far enough!
Crown, leaning out of a car chatting to a dog-walker and not paying attention to the road can get you reincarnated in a jiffy!
Crown, I have one eye weaker than the other but when both eyes are open, my view seems as good as if I just use the stronger eye. So I got my new Florida licence without having to wear glasses when I drive. But if I had to see only through my left eye, they’d insist on bottle-bottoms behind the wheel. And no, I don’t drink and drive!
ScouseBilly, I’d like to add that your post did include reference to population control and AGW but my friend conveniently chose to ignore all that….
I’ve sent him a further post to drive home the point. (I can get away with it; few could.)
Pointman says:
October 24, 2010 at 10:12 am
Greetings, Pointman. Still no joy, but tomorrow is another day. Traffic is heavy, my connection is slower than molasses, and I fink the transfer point is the issue LOL Pls see my e-mail.
I cannot seem to open an account, either, so that is another point in my favour on the given argument.
This posts like a rocket, so I also think it is the service provider, just for today.
Judging by the net’s behaviour, sumpin is up militarily, or it is Red Chinese or North Korean hacker time.
Amanda, I can’t figure it out, either, and I am as guilty as the next guy, if pressed, but it is a source of bemusement to me why everyone’s default solution is to kill lots of people. I mean to everything and every problem. I don’t geddit. Five years in the military, and I still don’t geddit.
Philosophical Bear says:
October 24, 2010 at 11:18 am
“Judging by the net’s behaviour, sumpin is up militarily …” – Know what you mean. I’m getting a lot of alarms at the moment. Zips in the wire or just somebody effing around?
Pointman
I think it is called the Yosemite Sam way to knowledge.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tq0CnGzIFBU Dadburn the consarn….
Pointman says:
October 24, 2010 at 11:23 am
I can e-mail you some freeware that annunciates ALL little tentacles like .asp pokes and other stuff in yer network. Check your inbox.
You gotta sympathise with Yosemite Sam here. That line “Wo Injuns, Wo Cavalry”. How often I’ve done that but with the same result …
Pointman
Philosophical Bear says:
October 24, 2010 at 11:23 am
Lo Bear,
I always liked Yosemite Sam, come to think of it, Tasmanian Devil (cartoon version Swanny!) as well:>)))).
Hiya Ed, we’re not supposed to have sympathy for Bug’s foes but there you are. Personally I’ve always rooted for Wile E. Coyote. Ohh, to strangle that Roadrunner with his irritating beep beep followed by that ricochet sound. But a historic thing happened …
Pointman
Pointman says:
October 24, 2010 at 11:55 am
That is a very succinct statement of the eternal forward artillery observer’s problem.
LOL
It might be a very succinct statement of our situation, as we are right, we do know from their outright statements that AGW leftards will stop at nothing, etc., etc.
Not that we care. Just so we know. The operative word is “we.”
Philosophical Bear says:
October 24, 2010 at 12:21 pm
The operative word is “we.”
We’re just another bloody gang but one I like being in. ‘Gang’ as a word carries a lot of negative connotations but it shouldn’t. Jets or Sharks, it’s a home.
Pointman
I’ve posted this link before but I’ll do it again as a reminder of the power of ‘gang’ culture. If the Eugenicists and the population controllers had got their hands on his DNA profile, he wouldn’t have allowed to be, never mind survive. It would all have been done for the best possible and most plausible cost-effective reasons. They didn’t and he did, due to that gang called his family. Essentially, this is why we fight.
Pointman
Pointman, just do as the e-mail sez, and Bob’s yet uncle.
Pointy, I can also receive up to a 140 MB e-mail, too. LOL My Montreal ISP is the berries. Just rename the file extension before uploading to bypass the filter(s).
Frustrated Bear the slow traffic is probably just a bot net attack or somebody spamming the heck out of your ISP, they and they probably being Russians operating out of China, they sell bot networks to people for a fee and what you do with it is your own concern.
We had an ex NSA/FBI guy tell us that and never trust Facebook as Mark Zuckerberg is devoting so much time and effort to protect your privacy.
Crown the recommend is much appreciated.
You’re a good man 🙂
Scouse Billy you are welcome. You do post a lot of stuff I wish I could delve into as some of it I have heard before and would like to know how much is just disinformation or how much is true. The good captain has lots of info that is interesting but his conclusions I’m not 100% certain about but we shall see.
Captain S. works with Chips (Field McConnell). The latter fictionalises around what the former suspects. There’s often a grain or more of truth in it.
For my part I disseminate what I can “corroborate” from more than one decent source but sometimes one needs to be provocative. The NWO thread a while back at the DT was pretty much open season though 😉
Amanda,
Re. Margaret Mead – it’ll be intriguing to see if you can get a reaction on the eugenics.
Scouse Billy as much as I like a good conspiracy theory sometimes you wonder whether a group of people with conflicting self interests could seriously work together over a long period of time without screwing each other over, they would naturally fall into camps opposing each other over some policy detail or other.
Or if you go further down the rabbit hole you end up with giant shape shifting trans dimensional reptiloids ruling the world actually that is a favourite of mine now that shows imagination.
A lot of what you post I have heard before from other sources there are things about the second world war that do not add up as to why we did not bomb Switzerland it would have shortened the war by 6 months and save a lot of allied lives also those in the death camps and we would have been in Berlin first.
You’re dead right about factions falling out…
The BIS was and still is at the apex of the banking pyramid – remember wars are always good for the banks. Check out “Banking with Hitler” if you have an hour to spare:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8730885410534535770#
Scouse Billy wars are engineered by the big finance people to bail themselves out of the latest mess they have dug themselves into, it stimulates the economy like nothing else and the debt gets shifted on to the tax payer. Plus you get rid of someone who knows where the bodies are really buried.
Crownarmourer, what in hell is Zugo? I have one in my registry? LOL
Never mind. That’s bl**dy aulde Bing on the loose in me pooter. Time for the registry cleaner doodad.
Frustrated bear I always clean up my PC using a free tool called Glary Utilities it helps you manage the registery, I also use Spybot Search and Destroy to help keep a lot of crap off my machine. Nothing is perfect but I spend hours keeping my machine free of crud. Also run a weekly virus scan while you are sleeping. If your machine is also slowing down too much defrag it using system tools. I do that every few months. Still microsoft sucks and eventually it is best just to reimage the whole machine and start over. Never trust anything from evil corp Google there tools eat a machines resources alive and are major bandwidth hogs.
Very true.
Pointman
Something livelier and more upbeat and Pink Floyd are excellent some Don Henley.
bb
G’Morning, Everyone !
In res colors
Having closely frequented the fashion business for a decade or so in the (relatively remote) past, Amerloque is of the firm opinion that French and Italian designers really don’t see “colors” the way that non-designers do. Perhaps this is one of the keys to their success ?
The French most assuredly don’t call a given color “red” the same way Amerloque calls that color “red”. Even more flagrant for “beige”. (grin)
One might with profit examine – the color in the middle on the traffic lights, in various countries.
A good way to begin might be to contact different national regulatory agencies and ministries and request the precise wavelength in Angstroms. (At least this could be used as a guideline, even though the local lens/bulb manufacturer might have other ideas …).
“Yellow” ? “Amber” ? Well, the French say “orange” … (grin)
Best,
L’Amerloque
(Today is Sunday, the day Mme Amerloque and Amerloque cling to their guns and religion.) (grin)
From the DT this morning (Sunday):
///
Ministers plan huge sell-off of Britain’s forests
Ministers are planning a massive sell-off of Britain’s Government-owned forests as they seek to save billions of pounds to help cut the deficit, The Sunday Telegraph has learnt.
Caroline Spelman, the Environment Secretary, is expected to announce plans within days to dispose of about half of the 748,000 hectares of woodland overseen by the Forestry Commission by 2020.
The controversial decision will pave the way for a huge expansion in the number of Center Parcs-style holiday villages, golf courses, adventure sites and commercial logging operations throughout Britain as land is sold to private companies. …/… /// http://tinyurl.com/2bdcaqf
amerloque at 5.52pm
Leaving aside the question of whether or not these forests must be sold, is it really such a good time to sell? I suppose it depends on whether the climate for sale is getting better or worse. Could it be worse? These assets can only be sold once. Given that the expected realisation will not be a great sum, would it not be better to find savings elsewhere? Will there be covenants preventing the clear-felling of these forests, which would make them worth even less?
Hi Farmerbraun !
Forests are shorelines and mountains belong to the people and are held in trust for future generations.
Selling them off at any time, no matter what the price, is shortsighted, criminal behavior. Selling them now (to the banks ?), or later (to the Chinese ?) is treason, given the lousy sum that might reasonably be expected.
Just Amerloque’s personal opinion, of course. (grin)
Well I can’t say that I am surprised that you feel that way. The N.Z. Forest Service established forests over some very marginal land in the middle of last century. Those forests are now largely foreign -owned and the profits go offshore.
To add insult to injury, the owners of those forests have recently enjoyed additional windfall(?) profits by way of carbon credits extracted from the people by way of emissions taxes. The forest owners promptly sold the credits; they are not stupid.
So our birthright(taxpayer-established forests) having previously been sold for peanuts, the present government thought well to give the owners a bonus, courtesy of the taxpayer. How do I feel about this? This is a relatively decorous forum. I shall not say.
orkneylad says:October 24, 2010 at 5:15 am
“2010 Antarctica Peer-Reviewed Research: Ice Core Data Confirms Medieval Period Warmer Than Present
-link-
“Scientists using the latest analysis techniques, conducted a high resolution analysis of the ice core retrieved from Antarctica’s Dome C station….
What did this new high resolution analysis determine?
1. The Medieval Warming period had temperatures that approached 1°C higher than current temperatures, in spite of lower CO2 levels.
2. The Minoan Warming period had temperatures that possibly exceeded current temperatures by 1°C, in spite of lower CO2 levels.
3. The previous interglacial period, approximately 130,000 years ago, had temperatures in excess of 4°C versus current temperatures, in spite of lower CO2 levels.
Clearly, the new ice core data indicates that natural climate variations caused huge temperature variations in the past. Based on this empirical climate science, it would be safe to conclude that current climate changes are predominantly driven by natural forces, not human CO2 trace gas emissions.”
Nonsense.
If you follow the links you can eventually find the actual scientific paper from which the original link derived these claims.
Needless to say they appear nowhere in the scientific paper.
The claims about the temperature in the medieval and minoan warm periods are especially specious. of the two cores analysied one stops around 1200 years ago and both have a maximum 100 year resolution. The EDC results which could cover the MWP shows no significant or warmer temps at that time. See figure 7a in the original paper –
Click to access Ste2009a.pdf
Note the zero level is standerdised to the 1950s by convention, present day temps are at least half a degree warmer.
The scientific paper is using a complex computer model to project the temperatures from the isotope measurements to give an estimate of the temperatures both at the site the snow fell in Antarctica and the source where the water evaporated from the oceans.
Its clever stuff, but it might help to see a few more error ranges on the graphs, the text discusses some of the assumptions they make could have a 2degC bias on the results of their correction.
However the warmer post glacial peak in the Eemian, the last interglacial period has already been a topic of discussion here. Noidea asked why it was warmer than the present and one cause is re-confirmed here. The paper mentions the close correlation between the temperature reconstruction they have generated and the Milankovitch cycle of insolation changes.
The shift in solar energy distribution was greater at the Eemian post glacial peak than at the Holocene maximum. The difference can indicate the climate sensitivity.
@- Amanda
Noticed your mention of colour vision and water-colo(u)r painting earlier in the thread.
You may already be aware of this resource, but on the science of color vision/pigments/lighting I found it very clear (grin).
There is also a water-colour painting section that others tell me is good…
http://www.handprint.com/index.html
Hi Farmerbraun !
October 24, 2010 at 6:44 pm
Here in France the government three or four years ago (before Sarko: under Chirac) decided to “sell” (i.e., concede) the concessions to the very large and very pleasant and quite expensive toll motorways (i.e., “autoroutes à péage”) that were built over two decades. The concessions are for 50 years. They were sold/auctioned off to the highest bidders (Hi Macquarie, among others !) for 18 billion euros or so total.
The first year, the concessionaires reported pre-tax profits … of 12 billion euros.
Over 50 years, the deficit could certainly have been paid down a bit. (sigh)
The French MSM is, of course, mum on this. It’s only when delving into the financial press that one can find out …
Best,
L’Amerloque
Izen,
What does take for you to understand your cherry-picking pseudo-non-science is neither wanted nor appreciated around here.
You breeze in here, make what amount to totally unscientific, illogical, non-factual statements, supported by neither facts, nor figures, nor physics, nor chemistry, nor observation – in many cases bereft even of support from your fellow warmista mass-murderers, and expect us all to accept your conferred “wisdom” as something akin to a Sermon on the Mount.
Yesterday you popped in to “enlighten” us all to the fact that the piddling mass (by comparison) of the atmosphere is responsible for the accumulated heat-energy of the far more massive – and denser – oceans – in true style without a shred of anything remotely resembling evidence, and now you’re back today picking holes in a peer-reviewed, published scientific paper.
Aren’t they supposed to be the Holy Grail izen? Weren’t you here (and elsewhere) just a couple of months ago singing the praises of that bit of English language only, Google-researched “scientific” document “proving” that your revered mass-murderers – sorry – “climate scientists” had far more “peer-reviewed, published papers” than the skeptics?
Yesterday I pointed out the utter absurdity of your claim that the atmosphere warmed the oceans – not the other way round. Now you’re back with more of the same – WITHOUT ever addressing the issues raised about your previous post.
More of the same crap stuff. For instance, you want more “error ranges in the graphs”. You want to post a link to a copy of Mann’s “hockey-stick” graph with meaningful error ranges to demonstrate what you mean?
It’s GAME ON with the Climate Hysterics and Manipulators of children…….
“The planet is in danger. If you care about the environment and if you want to help, join the ‘Carbon Tradies’, an elite group of eco warriors.”
http://www.savewater.com.au/mission-co2-game
There is a Forward to a Friend option, win a Toyota Camry Hybrid if you register to play the game, click to find all the taxpayer grants you can claim, click to find all the water-saving products you can buy and on and on………..
How did I find this site? I have no idea. I was watching TV and an ad came on to tell me if I wanted to save the environment, go to “something-or-other.com” (I can’t for the life of me remember what the address was, but it wasn’t the above site to which I was automatically directed).
Prime time Sunday evening family viewing time – obviously no expense spared by Toyota or any other sponsors.
There is no back-pedaling from these Hysterics. Maybe there is a “get-’em-while-we still-can” imperative.
Amerloque says:
October 24, 2010 at 8:26 pm
Hi Amerloque
Our Govts have flogged off our toll-roads too, but wait till Macquarie Bank owns all your airports as well. Sydney now has the most expensive airport parking in the world (even worse than Heathrow or New York) and massive aircraft landing and handling charges.
It all ends up on the consumers’ tickets one way or another. But then International Air Travel is so glamorous after all. Those jet-setters can obviously afford it. I await with interest the reaction when punitive Carbon Taxes are loaded on as well.
Blackswan
Thats a lot of boring blurb to play Frogger.
memory vault says: October 24, 2010 at 8:28 pm
” You breeze in here, make what amount to totally unscientific, illogical, non-factual statements, supported by neither facts, nor figures, nor physics, nor chemistry, nor observation – in many cases bereft even of support from your fellow warmista mass-murderers, and expect us all to accept your conferred “wisdom” as something akin to a Sermon on the Mount.”
I generally provide links to the actual papers if possible. In fact I think my record on that may be better than yours.
So when it comes to which of us is least likely to provide facts and figures…
Quote-“… and now you’re back today picking holes in a peer-reviewed, published scientific paper.”
Wrong.
I think the paper is good. I’m picking holes in the specious claims advanced by the c3 denialist website that quoted that paper as the backing for its dishonest assertions.
I am quoting the actual science from the paper and providing a link showing how the c3 site has no apparent basis for its claims about the MWP and Minoan warm period.
The paper by B. Stenni et al makes no claims about those periods, and lacks the temporal resolution on the one core that covers that time. Yet the c3 site claims the peer reviewed paper supports its assertions about those times.
Always go to the original source, denialist site will tell you lies….
Quote-“Yesterday I pointed out the utter absurdity of your claim that the atmosphere warmed the oceans – not the other way round.”
Strawman.
NOT my claim, but your misinterpretation because you either intentionaly or through ignorance don’t understand the difference between a feedback and a forcing factor.
Read what I posted more carefully and perhaps you might avoid missrepresenting, or missunderstanding what I said.
Quote-“More of the same crap stuff. For instance, you want more “error ranges in the graphs”. You want to post a link to a copy of Mann’s “hockey-stick” graph with meaningful error ranges to demonstrate what you mean?”
Okay, the original, and much disputed, MHB98 graph, as printed in the IPCC2001 paper – the ‘Mann hokey stick’ as it gets called.
Oh look, it has gray error bars… and as I pointed out a long time ago when we first posted about this, the error bars just about encompass all more recent and presumably more accurate paleoclimate reconstructions.
And of course, the greater past variation then the implication is the greater climate sensitivity and the greater the effect from the extra energy from the rising CO2.
2+2=?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1323228/Queens-38m-year-offshore-windfarm-windfall–owns-seabed.html
Hi Blackswan !
October 24, 2010 at 8:51 pm
Yes, the screaming about “carbon taxes” should be quite interesting indeed ! (grin)
Not all individual French legislators figure they’re a good idea (grin) yet both the “left” and the “right” seem to be united around them.
Forests represent 27/28% of France’s land. Something like 200,000 hectares of forest change hands every year, half of which are inherited and/or passed along within the family. Insofar as taxation is concerned, there’s only a yearly flat-rate land tax, while wood harvested and sold is … free of taxes. (grin)
Out in Amerloque’s neck of Normandy, after regular increases over the past several years, the prices of forest(s) have been stable.
Best,
L’Amerloque
@-memory vault says: October 24, 2010 at 8:28 pm
“Izen,
What does take for you to understand your cherry-picking pseudo-non-science is neither wanted nor appreciated around here.”
For obvious reasons I have separated this from the previous post dealing with the factual climate aspects of your post.
I don’t come here to be wanted or appreciated, that would a strange thing to seek from blog posting, the personal ads might be a better bet…
But specifically to challenge ideas I disagree with. If you want a blog that preserves a communal monoculture by excluding dissent then I suggest you apply to the proprietor of this Bar-&-Grill.
But unless I cause major damage to the furniture, or other patrons I doubt he will favour the suppression of contradictory viewpoints.
Quote-“You breeze in here, make what amount to totally unscientific, illogical, non-factual statements, supported by neither facts, nor figures, nor physics, nor chemistry, nor observation – in many cases bereft even of support from your fellow warmista mass-murderers, and expect us all to accept your conferred “wisdom” as something akin to a Sermon on the Mount.”
I would be incredibly stupid if I thought the ‘wisdom’ I confer here was going to be accepted as the word of the messiah of a jewish cult under Roman occupation.
“blessed are the cheesemakers…”
I make no apologies for the overwheening pomposity or pretentiousness with which I style my posts, lacking any sense of humour it is the best I can do…-grin-
But if I do post something that is unscientific and illogical then I would welcome you or anyone posting chapter and verse on where the mistakes are with I hope copious links to good peer reviewed science to demonstrate the errors.
But what I notice here, and elsewhere, is a lack of reference to original research or basic science and a plethora of sites that mediate any information to make it conform to the viewpoint of their consumers.
I am quite content to ignore your posts and refrain from any replies if that would spare you the pain of confronting a contradictory view of things, although I would prefer if you also reciprocated.
However I have no intention of ceasing to post on the science of climate change here just because you find my posts dissonant with your belief system.
Amerloque says:
October 24, 2010 at 5:52 pm
I find the irony of massive unnecessary expenditures on risible AGW state fraud schemes over the 14 years carbon trading has been on the radar screen resulting in massive deforestation to be entirely typical of the sorts of cognitive dissonances which so characterize a plan of action in practice as warped by leftardness.
Weren’t those forests already committed to act as carbon sinks for sequestration purposes? I would say the entire enterprise of carbon trading as practiced by the communist expropriators of family-owned and land owned by the people sleazy as drug dealing and prostitution, except that with the two latter forms of genuine work (and highly dangerous–where’s Helf und Shifty here, please?) at least run the risk of value for dollar.
Make you a bet, Izen: betcha Deutsche Bank’s evangelical psychopathic 60 billion Sh**po exposure to carbon fraud fund goes broke before the rest of us do, and within two years. Dutch tulip bulbs were a better environmentally-responsible investment fund prospect in Hogarth’s time.
*risk of providing
Izen, if you choose to ignore the posts, why are you here, please?
It’s like a tiny little boy driving his tricycle five blocks in a rainstorm just to tell his little sister at daycare that he hates her, then pedals back.
Very little of what we post here is from arcane and conflict-of-interest type sites such as yours (yes, we are going to cite papers from researchers for UEA, I am sure they are dispassionate providers of reliable information). Most of what links we provide, outside of the tunes, are from the MSM and other businesses which can be sued for fraud, slander, and lying, unlike academic institutions, which face “only” the threat of de-accreditation. Either side of the fence, researchers are not players in the sense they are putting their assets at risk; that’s part of the rules of the game for the scientific method in the first place. Scientists, real ones, at any rate, are PAID to admit that this or that may not be true, depending on clearly-defined evidentiary constructs. It’s the degree of substantiability of the relative merits of the opposing arguments which is at issue, at the core of things.
And you still do not have anyone’s permission to alter the structure of society without first either putting it up for referendum or through the process of debate in legislatures according to democratic process. If put to a vote tomorrow, every last pence would be forced to be returned to the public purse, that which has been spent on this stewbucket of lies. That would be the right thing to do, and may very well happen, plus punitive damages, plus compensation for property damage and for pain and hardship.
The Katrina suit is impending in November or early December, when the docket date is set and the arguments open in earnest, where for once and for all, a direct, causal link between carbon and AGW and the reality of AGW will have to be proven on an engineering-style basis, with iron-clad strings of causality substantiated at every juncture. That’s when the AGW crowd will lose their tricycle privileges. For good.
Death to communists.
I also leave green goose turds as bookmarks in your Mao-signed first edition of The Little Red Book, Izen.
I’ve also just fed all your original heirloom 33-1/3 John Lennon albums into the office shredder.
And your hippie beads and bell bottoms, and hand-woven macrame sweat band.
Your mood ring wouldn’r fit into the shredder so I used a lead mallet on it. Same deal on the lava lamp and the black lights. The posters fit into the shredder just fine though, after I ripped them into strips.
I left your bhong alone. You’re going to need that.
Poilu Bear, A Le Front says: October 24, 2010 at 10:12 pm
“Izen, if you choose to ignore the posts, why are you here, please?”
Ah Walt, you have no idea… how much pleasure I get from reading your purple prose, with the intention of remembering some of the good bits for future use!
You have a facility with a level of complex invective which is quite breathtaking… and very funny.
Please keep it up, and if I don’t respond to many of your posts be assured that it isn’t because they go unread, it just, well,… you don’t often post anything substantive. Though I do follow up the energy and engineering links although not all of the market-regulatory ones…
Fail izen
Your link is to a graph where the error margins faithfully mimic the the claimed overall effect – the infamous hockey stick sans MWP and LIA.
However since the graph itself has been become so discredited even the IPCC has dropped it, the whole thing simply reflects what it is – garbage in, garbage out. Or as Jones own programmer put it in the leaked emails and documents – “the fudge factor”.
As to the other matter, here is the cut and paste of what you wrote again, since you have obviously forgotten:
“The oceans can store and release energy over various timescales, but respond to, not drive, climate variations..”
Since according to you and the other mass-murderers “climate” is what happens in the atmosphere, then the above quote clearly states that the oceans are governed by, and respond to, the atmosphere, not the other way around.
You are full of crap izen, And invoking the wit of Monty Python will not help you. As always, you mimic the words without the slightest understanding of the joke. In this case, you are the cheesemaker, but you’ll never understand why.
@-Walt
“Either side of the fence, researchers are not players in the sense they are putting their assets at risk; that’s part of the rules of the game for the scientific method in the first place. Scientists, real ones, at any rate, are PAID to admit that this or that may not be true, depending on clearly-defined evidentiary constructs. It’s the degree of substantiability of the relative merits of the opposing arguments which is at issue, at the core of things.”
This skirts dangerously close to sociology and relativism. Those evidentiary constructs are constrained by what actually happens in the material world. If Nature proves a scientist wrong they loose far more than ‘assets’.
Quote-“And you still do not have anyone’s permission to alter the structure of society without first either putting it up for referendum or through the process of debate in legislatures according to democratic process.”
Nature gets the first, final and only vote.
http://sealevel.colorado.edu/
Quote-“The Katrina suit is impending in November or early December, when the docket date is set and the arguments open in earnest, where for once and for all, a direct, causal link between carbon and AGW and the reality of AGW will have to be proven on an engineering-style basis, with iron-clad strings of causality substantiated at every juncture.”
Which links in the chain of causality from the rise in CO2 to warmer surface temperatures do you regard as NOT yet being ‘iron-clad’ ?
The argument is about how much not whether it happens.
As the actress said to the bishop….
izen
You’ve never made a substantive reply the one of Walt’s posts, and you never will, because Walt deals with these things at an engineering level.
Even the spelling is so far out of your league that any attempt by a cheesemaker such as yourself would be laughable.
memory vault says: October 24, 2010 at 10:58 pm
“…izen quote=
“The oceans can store and release energy over various timescales, but respond to, not drive, climate variations..”
Since according to you and the other mass-murderers “climate” is what happens in the atmosphere, then the above quote clearly states that the oceans are governed by, and respond to, the atmosphere, not the other way around.”
If climate is EXCLUSIVELY what happens in the atmosphere why do climate scientists measure sea surface/depth temperatures, ice extent, sea level rise etc.
Your attempt to reduce climate to just the atmosphere and then conflate the climate as just been caused by the atmosphere is bad chop-logic.
Look at my quote. The oceans (and atmosphere) respond to changes in the energy balance. That is predominately changes in solar energy received – as seen with the ice-ages. They are not driven by the oceans, the oceans respond to those small solar variations, as does the atmosphere. One response is to alter the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere which also changes the energy balance of the climate.
Unless some external change in the energy flow through the climate alters the oceans (and the atmosphere) they continue to show chaotic, quasi-periodic variation. PDOs, AMOs and all the other ocean current mechanisms can temporarily store or release more energy than is entering the system.
If you want to get a trend in such a system you need an external driving energy source, the oceans cannot provide that, they can only respond to such a forcing.
Quote-“You are full of crap izen, And invoking the wit of Monty Python will not help you. As always, you mimic the words without the slightest understanding of the joke. In this case, you are the cheesemaker, but you’ll never understand why.”
I think one of us is standing too far away to hear the truth…
izen
I see – now it’s solar changes.
Would they be the same solar influences you and the other mass murderers have claimed in the past were “inconsequential”. NOW they affect everything.
Sorry izen, but you remain a joke – at least as far as a mass-murderer can be considered funny.
Now I have to listen to somebody REALLY important – Thumper says it’s time for to go to bed.
Have fun making a fool of yourself, cheesemaker.
blessed are the cheesemakers.
Specifically, Izen, court cases are conducted on the basis of assets at risk. If the folks levying charges at the majors vis a vis Katrina AGW allegations cannot satisfy the insurance industry criteria respecting traceable lines of causality, game over for the AGW crowd. Easier to substantiate the link between a butterfly wing flapping in Nigeria causing a hurricane in Florida, or my farts causing the Haiti earthquake.
Likewise, my allegations respecting the known scope of science pertains entirely to truth validation criteria, and has nothing to do with cultural, social or political desiderata. There is not even a state- or governmentally-administered board which licences and certifies a person as a scientist per se anywhere on the planet. Only universities do anything even vaguely approaching that, and if one were to approach an insurance specialist as a scientist and ask for omissions and errors insurance coverage, that insurance person would laugh themselves sick.
It’s a standing joke amongst scientists, the O & E bit: you ought to stop by RR or a biomedical research facility with a pharma company and have a chat with both a research affiliate and a production engineer on the difference between the two disciplines, science and engineering. That is also what is at issues respecting the entire AGW game. I predict after the melee recedes into ignominy, the end result will be universal certification procedures apart from the individual uni’s for those who claim to be scientists, plus requirement for individual O & E type coverage for them, based on the follow-on suits which will result when the AGW fraud is slapped down in the courts.
Every generation needs a good Scopes trial or two. I look forward to the Katrina punchup. Everyone young lawyer both sides of the AGW fence wants in on that one.
Any idea where Epic Log is at, BTW, Izen? Someone push his troll cage off the end of a New Orleans dock, do you think?
*Every young lawyer…
Dunno, Izen, but it seems to me MV has done an able job of standing his ground LOL
Locusts & Wild Honey says:
October 24, 2010 at 11:41 pm
Not as blessed as the cheesecutters.
Izen,in return for you for being so rude to MV, I’ve just fed your “Smoke On The Water” by Deep Purple heirloom 33-1/3 into the office shredder, too.
Poilu Bear, A le Front says: October 25, 2010 at 12:10 am
“Izen,in return for you for being so rude to MV, I’ve just fed your “Smoke On The Water” by Deep Purple heirloom 33-1/3 into the office shredder, too.”
Oooohhh too much, thats the one I learnt the bass-line too…
-GRIN-
Izen
Any surprise you learnt the bass line that goes…
Dum dum dumb, dum dum der dumb, Dum dum dumb, dumb da dumb…
I tried to find Nash the Slash’s version called “Dope on the water” for you, instead I found a track called Wolf (Extended) Live 1979
NI
Hello Izen.
I’ve briefly checked out the website you recommend, and I thank you very much. It looks terrific: thorough, orderly, and comprehensible (as well as pretty!). I shall enjoy making use of it. I note as well that it has a whole separate section on human evolution, which is also a particular interest of mine.
Thanks again.
Cheers,
Amanda
Poilu Bear, A Le Front says:
October 24, 2010 at 10:28 pm
Tremendous comments sir, damn it Bear you’ve nailed what I’ve been meaning to articulate (but haven’t) for ages, I sometimes drift on my ramblings but you scored 10, dead centre.
Thank you for putting into words (a view Ive long had amorphous thoughts on), couched eloquently, speech-craft you have and straight from the heart.
Tenuous link to the bioperversity thread, but what the F?
Edward says:
October 25, 2010 at 6:44 am
Thanks, Edward, but you’ll never guess what I found under Izen’s waterbed: grotty 1968-1972 Playboy Magazines with the pages stuck together. Not in MY office shredder: call the HAZMAT folks, someone.
Let’s see now: where are the Pink Floyd albums? Wait. What’s this hidden under the yoga mat? Oh, no! Not the Cowsills and 1910 Fruitgum Company!
BTW: I have seen 1968 and 1969 Playboy Magazines, lovingly wrapped in clear envelopes in archival condition at a local flea market, and the pictures are so chaste, fresh and non-lurid that I do not think they would even rate consideration for inclusion in a Victoria’s Secret campaign today. If you ever get the chance, too, scope out Look Magazines and Saturday Evening Posts from the 1950’s: they really were rudely oppressive days then. Oh, yes, the days of yore embued with the all-infusing stench of Compulsory Fun. See how everyone smiled.
The poignant thought which comes to mind respecting AGW and the entire rebellion against anything vaguely non-Red is entirely an over-compensation three generations out to get away from Dad’s belt and the teacher’s ruler and being forced to say the Pledge of Allegiance. Leftards are small children frightened into lifelong sociopathy, running away from the bullying of a generation now dead for 20-40 years.
It is still no excuse. Just because a person did not get an electric choo-choo train for Xmas at age 5 doesn’t give him or her the right to hijack a passenger jet, on which theme the AGW movement is but a minor variation.
BTW, too, Izen, I think you just impaled yourself on your own community service trash pickup stick in reference to what doth impel the movement of clouds. Not reaching out for primum mobile or synthetic a priori, are we? The answer awaits you in the writings of Emmanuel Kant (no relation to Izen’t) at http://www.tarvu.com or http://www.landoverbaptist.org
Thanks for sharing, Farmerbraun. Liked the one about the possum calling in. Carl ought to try on an NYC subway sometime, too. Very funny fellow.
*those instead of they
Farmerbraun says:
October 25, 2010 at 7:08 am
G’day – Carl’s always good for spotting the ludicrous aspects of our lives. Cheers.
O’Bruin with le Front…….
Mornin’ Walt,
‘While I was sleeping….’ you’re still coming up with gems for izen’tit? and his comeuppance (no pun intended)….lol
Nice to start the day with a laugh from you and the Farmer. Thanks.
Thanks for the backhanded compliments. Some people get upset about the risk of plagiarism, Izen, and I do not. Please feel free to use whatever you like which I post here. Same applies to everyone else. It’s a blog :>p This is my bouqet of flowers to you, a product of what looks like a film school’s team graduation thesis. Funny and really well made. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=031Dshcnso4&p=9F77CE16AF6CF656&playnext=1&index=23 This 3 minutes probably represents a couple of hundred work hours from planning to the final edit. It rates the almost 3 million views.
After 30 years of being published, I have seen direct lifts from my earlier press work in the contracting trade magazines, and I will never sweat plagiarism again. What I write stands out so much from the lifter’s stuff as a product of an entirely different personality and style of writing that the lifter if they made what I wrote theirs it would have been less work to write their own stuff in the first place so as not to make themselves look stooopid. It makes one believe fully in Joyce’s dictum that writing is a mark of a spirit not of ink, and that it is so for all of us, each with our own styles and diamond (or coal-like) facets to our personal gems.
Listening to Sydney Radio this morning and heard an interview with this guy……
http://www.dennisjensen.com.au/
“Qualifications and occupation before entering federal Parliament
BAppSc (RMIT), MSc (Melb), PhD (Monash).
Air traffic controller 1983-86.
Research scientist, CSIRO 1995-99.
Research scientist and defence analyst 1999-2004.”
As a Member of Federal Parliament for a Western Australian electorate, he is proposing a Royal Commission on Fraudulent CAGW, demanding justification for these proposed taxes.
Also, current Legislation demands all Business assess and register their Carbon Footprints, Jensen asserting it’s an unnecessary and unjustifiable impost.
It’ll be interesting to see if anything comes of his efforts.
Blackswan says:
October 25, 2010 at 8:18 am
You’re very welcome. I think we will find the tough times ahead a bit more rewarding and pleasurable in real terms than the miserable grabfest and hog wallow of the 1990’s and Noughties, too. Most welcome a moral challenge in the same way we welcome a go at cards or footie, though no one admimts to it.
Sounds like an Aussie of the old school. Grandad at Tobruk, Dad in Indochina, no doubt.
Since it’s a public holiday in N.Z. ( I promise to do less than 14 hrs Mum) here’s one for the eco-nazis. ( fuck ’em). It’s close to Bobby’s original with Rick Danko.
Walt,
His bio says he was born in South Africa. I’ve never heard of him before, but that interview on CAGW was spot-on. Interesting.
Also, “What I write stands out so much” – and we’re all glad of that. It’s about “hearing” the “voices” of those who write – anything. Your voice has a unique resonance in the blogosphere.
I’m only guessing but that sounds like Maria and Geoff Muldaur on vocals and guitar.
Farmerbraun
I never knew a farmer who took a Public Holiday. Don’t tell me you blokes are unionised.
“A key recommendation of a prime ministerial taskforce on energy efficiency would shift the responsibility of reducing electricity use from families to the energy retail companies directly.
Energy companies could help cut household power consumption by either fully funding or helping to replace inefficient appliances in the home.
The scheme would force energy companies to find energy savings in any way they can. Short of closing power stations, the cheapest way for them to do it is thought to be making people’s homes more efficient.”
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/indepth/pms-300-power-saving-bill-plan/story-fn4x9za1-1225942941735
These bizarre proposals are now coming thick and fast.
Sounds like desperation to me.
“It was a stark reminder of man’s often damaging impact on the environment”.
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/crab-finds-bottler-of-new-home/story-e6freuy9-1225942918871
On the contrary, I think it’s a perfect example of recycling….lol
In my book a Public Holiday is akin to a Public Servant i.e. I hold them both in the same high esteem- yeah right!
But the generous spirit was likely a result of having seen the sun on two consecutive days for the first time this spring. Talk about the cold , wet, cloudy season; this one was a bitch. Yellow grass, low brix, excess nitrates, scratchy cows overloaded with water and intermediate nitrogenous compounds. Still, summer starts in less than a fortnight ( by daylength). I’m just so glad that none of my cows calve in springtime; January to May is the ticket- kinder to everyone.
Farmerbraun
A lot of your low-pressure systems hit us in Tasmania first – we got ’em fresh from Antarctica. We’ve had one day of Spring so far.
It seems you have a dairy herd – I dips me lid, Sir – you guys invented relentless hard work. No wonder you can’t stand the Bureaucratic Classes…LOL
Right on-topic (for a change)…… now the WWF is demanding compliance from Politicians when summoned……..
WWF slams Burke’s absence from UN talks
http://www.smh.com.au/environment/conservation/wwf-slams-burkes-absence-from-un-talks-20101024-16z95.html
”There are some tough issues here, such as access and benefit sharing, finance and targets, and there is no question political leadership will be needed.”
Not a mention of a polar bear or seal pup – just give-us-the-cash….as usual.
“Poorer nations refuse to agree to targets unless a deal is struck ensuring they get a bigger share of company profits generated through the use of genetic resources for products like medicines.”
Ooooh – wonder what Big Pharma will make of that?????
Here’s an update on the Passion of Dr. Michael Mann, crucified on crossed hockey sticks. Sigh.
http://www.c-ville.com/index.php?cat=1991704080566501&act=post&pid=12032110100742034
The point to be made here which is glossed over is not one piece of paper will the court allow UBH (University of Bag of Hammers) to turn over to the Attorney General relative to the specific projects and funding requested. I have no doubt much of it is shredded now.
I have one word to say: de-accreditation.
Blackswan says:
October 25, 2010 at 9:36 am
Nah, it means switching power off remotely. Aircon, any water heating (resistive)…..
Cooking out of nominated hours….. back to the 19th century…
Marcus
Blackswan says:
October 25, 2010 at 10:24 am
WWF and the rest are running out of the ready as resistance stiffens, and the UN is not in the least impressed with the greentard programme’s progress. As much as I and the rest of the realist crew criticise the IPCC, the little and large JI and CDM projects have been conducted with the utmost of fiscal probity down to the last field measurement for validation of the traceable worth of the carbon offsets as they relate to expenditures of that revenue on plant, maintenance and fuel. This is all the more to the detriment of the WWF and the other greentards, who have spent monies provided instead on advertising, promo and glitz. In that sense, the UN and I are on the same side of the fence, in that the money, if going to actual project development and not parasitic paper shufflers, at least provides a genuine critical framework for evaluating if these measures are making a difference or not, information both sides of the AGW argument need.
The greentards’ Waterloo will be when they are stuck with the task of proving the extent to which power production emissions reductions are going to reduce the “damage” to the climate in quantifiable terms when they have not even substantiated the threat. There isn’t even a baseline control for testing an associated hypothesis to this effect at this point.
How big is the threat? They don’t know. How much good will remediation measures do? We don’t know. How much will it cost? How much do you have, they ask?
Right. Cheque’s in the mail. They can figure out the other Big Lies themselves LOL!
mlpinaus says:
October 25, 2010 at 10:56 am
G’day Marcus
The way I see it is – if the Govt legislates to transfer the onus for “usage” to the Energy Co.s, that will give them all the “justification” they need to do just what you’re suggesting – no wonder they are demanding the roll-out of “smart metres” which give them the technology for micro-control.
Politicians and Energy providers will be absolved of responsibility, real arms-length stuff – it will be all the “fault” of power-hungry “consumers” – and punitive power bills to reduce “demand” will be justified too.
Sneaking bastards.
Walt,
No wonder WWF have secured title to the Amazon Carbon Sinks (and all the rest) – when the CAGW Fraud falls over, they can still use the forests for Bioperversity Offsets. No wonder their shrieks for Bio compliance are becoming ever-more-shrill.
Blackswan says:
October 25, 2010 at 11:18 am
Exactly. Micro control of the populace is the idea….. rides along with control of the internet……and no-one seems to notice or care.. What is it with these people? Why do they need to control the timing of when I take a leak?
Marcus
Blackswan says:
October 25, 2010 at 11:24 am
My guess is that all this which the power companies and the World Wrestling Federation propose is academic, as they will be broke soon. Currencies are tanking already, beginning with the English pound. There is very little support within the power generation and distribution community for smart-metering, either: who are proposing and administering smart-metering departments are the quota hires and outsourced consultants dumped in a corner of the new admin building trying to figure out some way of cost-justifying their existence while the CFO’s are continuously bringing up the blunt fact that the utilities will have to make a choice between shutting down smart-metering or financing plant retrofits to meet emissions standards tightening. Guess which is going to get axed first.
Smart-metering doesn’t pencil out any better than wind turbines, either, not when new transmission lines to service growing demand cannot even be permitted on a timely manner, much less financed and contructed. Public utilities can possibly float new refinancing or new bond issuances to underwrite smart-metering as they are tax exempt. If the merchant plants have to comply, it will be cheaper for them to close their doors, or just let their tax payments lapse and let the Feds take over under eminent domain in lieu of payment of taxes, sticking them with the bill.
It would be interesting to see what denominations and valuation schemes are associated with bioperversity, too. Are they going to use dried flat freeway toads, flat cats and pancake opposum, do you think? Wonder how they will print denominations on them….
The Amazon is already worthless as a carbon sink. 1/2 to 3/4 of NASD and EMA certified emissions traders won’t even look at a project involving rainforest sequestration. Can’t be quantified. A lot of US utilities bought into rainforest carbon sequestration in the late 1990’s, but utility firms like Ohio’s AEP are instead doing traditional development projects like hospitals and sewage systems and community development projects for the tax write-offs and goodwill, which return better value for money and, most importantly, do more good.
Hey Marcus
If you take that leak outdoors around your lemon tree, you will get credits for promoting the growth of the tree (carbon capture) and organic fertilising of food (lemons)…..
PLUS you’ll get credits for saving all that water on flushing.
The bastards DO want to control how, when and where we take a leak.
Kiting of securities is coming to a swift half very shortly. Prompt calls are going to be demanded as a means of getting fuel and grain and other products at an affordable price. I look to see the derivatives traders take one major hit, or a buyout at the state rate of exchange, fold, then walk away.
Gold’s a traded commodity with a futures and derivatives wolf pack, too LOL That will dive also, if you do not have the backstop commodity in your vault.
The only way out of the hole is work.
Walt O’Bruin says:
October 25, 2010 at 12:00 pm
Walt, you’re right with all of that – it’s just you’d never know it here in the Antipodes.
As for road-kill – penalties for hitting native fauna, maybe offset by credits for knocking off dogs and cats, plus bonuses for smacking into flatulent cows.
BTW on a rainy night heading out of Melbourne last year came across the aftermath of a little plastic bubble-car hitting a stray cow – hard to see which came off worse.
Walt – “if you do not have the backstop commodity in your vault”.
Well Gordon Brown saw to it that it’s now the Chinese and not the Brits whose vaults are stuffed with it.
Walt O’Bruin says:
October 25, 2010 at 12:11 pm
Walt, your depth and scope of knowledge in the past has helped me to convince my son, who in turn has convinced others of his generation of the lies we are told by the powers that be. It was made easier by the fact that he, like me, is an engineer first. It says something about how one thinks. What you are saying is that it is really going to hit the fan, and that trading expertise at something will be the way to continue eating. Ok, I’ll keep on consulting, and my lady wife fixing teeth…… thought that selling my company was some sort of end…. crap..
Marcus
Blackswan says:
October 25, 2010 at 12:19 pm
No one is buying the energy-efficient pinky sprinkly cars powered by pixie dust. They want something they can get their kids home safely in.
“…plus bonuses for smacking into flatulent cows.” Hm. With the right fixture, you could adapt and direct the emissions into a proper flamethrower ideal for happily greeting the carbon emitter inspection Gestapo. No, I will not post the video “You Light Up My Life” to go with this post LOL
It’s not fair, Marcus. All you and I wanted was the same deal my Dad (and Mum) got after WW II. Not one effing aspect of that world is left. The only people with proper pensions now are government anal buttplugs. Good on your son and his friends for taking on the engineering profession. It’s a good life, and much needed, more more than ever.
If it is any consolation, gold has no absolute value either: it is a measure of work hours bought just like paper. It is essential for military manufacture, however. Hope it flips back to 35 dollars per troy oz US overnight. If it does, that Scots Cyclops better keep an eye out for the reaction of the commodities community. I’ve heard stories about what happens to merrie pranquesters.
Retirement is no fun for former PM’s if they are nail-gunned to the ceiling of their living rooms.
*now
Politicians world-wide got into the ‘save the planet’ business for two reasons; electorates were convinced the planet needed saving and would vote for candidates who said they’d do just that and wouldn’t vote for candidates who said it was all hysteria, which it was and which most of them knew it was. That is political reality. Once they had been voted in, they stared spending the money because up to a couple of years ago, the economies were rich or apparently so.
One way or another, they have had to get out of the save the planet business because the money is simply no longer there. All over the world, economies are either very fragile or in some cases on life support. Climategate was pivotal in undermining the credibility of the ‘science’ which supported the hysteria. People no longer really believe or care about the whole thing because as recession bites, their concerns return to the necessities of the lives. In the coming mid-term elections in America, every GOP candidate is a declared climate sceptic and indeed in some cases are replacements for GOP candidates who were still pressing the climate alarm button. The message to politicians is clear; scepticism gains them votes, pro AGW loses them. They will always go with what gains them votes and dump what policies lose votes.
The AGW monster is not dead but its back is broken. I think that politically there will be no grand volte-face away from it but rather a quite retreat and it will suffer death by lack of funding.
Pointman
Pointman says:
October 25, 2010 at 6:48 pm
“electorates were convinced the planet needed saving”……..Why?
Because around 30 years ago the Left/Socialist/Marxists seized the agenda in the Education System – at about the same time they established Greenpeace and the WWF with the pandas, seal pups and so on. The rest is history.
Here in OZ politicians are pushing ahead with CAGW policies because (if you believe them) “electorates are convinced the planet needs saving” and a retreat from a Carbon Tax and ETS is being portrayed by the MSM as a “broken promise”.
Lack of funding isn’t going to work for us because Labor has no compunction about plunging us into generational debt to pay for it. That’s why we’re pinning our hopes on a big crash & burn for CAGW in the EU and US to finally bail us out.
A wee glimmer of light is a West OZ politician who intends to demand a Royal Commission into CAGW in a Private Member’s Bill this year. It won’t succeed due to the numbers, but it might raise the focus of Climate Change and its associated Fraud.
On second thoughts, I don’t think a Royal Commission would do any good at all seeing as the Royals are up to their (jug) ears in it, judging by Locusts’ link last night……..
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1323228/Queens-38m-year-offshore-windfarm-windfall–owns-seabed.html
Hypocrites!!
I’m watching an ABC doco on corruption and match-fixing in Pakistani Cricket.
Who’d have thought?
The Rise of ‘Multi Stream’ Media
“No one is left to act as a watchdog for government,” said Hoekstra. “There is little to no investigative effort. I do find it astonishing that I had to leave television news to do real, meaningful, journalism.”
http://www.michigancapitolconfidential.com/13830
I think the MSM, unless it has a big rethink and returns to doing meaty journalism, is doomed to slide into slow oblivion. They may join a multi-stream media but their importance will be marginal. Youth world-wide seem to get all their news input from the web and social networking sites.
Pointman
Blackswan says:
October 25, 2010 at 8:35 pm
“… pinning our hopes on a big crash & burn for CAGW in the EU and US to finally bail us out”
Hi Swan, I think the coming election in the states will be a bloodbath for the Democrats and the GOP, upon siezing power, will dismantle all the legislation with alacrity. It’ll save trillions of dollars which could only be raised throuh sovereign debt and the electorate there hate the social engineering aspects of the AGW movement.
Reasons to be cheerful, mate!
Pointman
Pointman 8:43.
You’re SO right about media reporting. There seems to be very little real reporting any more (with a few honourable exceptions) The media seems to be fixated on “celebrities” and their goings-on. Maybe it’s easier than investigative reporting on really important issues – and presumably it’s popular or they wouldn’t do it. Are we really now such a “dumbed-down” population??
Hi Mel, I do think the MSM is aimed at a dumbed down audience but the essential problem is that audience increasingly finds their output to be either piffle or not expressing their real attitudes or concerns. The younger generation simply don’t read newspapers or even watch television. They’ve given up on them. Those two outlets are becoming smaller because the advertisers know they’re losing market share and influence.
I no longer read newspapers and rarely watch television simply because the product is not only uninteresting but seems to be driven by agendas I don’t share. The ‘kids’ do the same for exactly those reasons too. Another interesting sign of the MSM’s demise is the proliferation of blogs. People who don’t share the MSM opinion of how the world works now meet and exchange information and viewpoints in places like LG.
How many other people find their kids get all their news from the web, I wonder?
Pointman
meltemian says:
October 25, 2010 at 8:57 pm
Hello Mel – “Are we really now such a “dumbed-down” population??”
Short answer – YES!!
I was sitting in a coffee shop the other day, unavoidably listening to a group of young apparent co-workers behind me, rabbitting-on and generally being loud and annoying. I finally gave up being irritated and listened.
They were yapping about some TV show and then went on to other celebs, what they wear, how they sang, their hair-styles, their hot-goss love-lives. So animated, so enthusiastic, so spiteful. As I went to the counter to pay, I checked them out, thinking they were adolescent burger-flippers. Not so Swan….. stop jumping to conclusions.
Their ages ranged from about 22 to 32 or 33. How could supposedly mature young people, all dressed in regulation corporate “suits”, occupy a half-hour of their lives analysing the dress and make-up of a wannabe singer? I don’t geddit.
If that is the target market of the MSM, they’re doing a great job – younger people with the attention span of a gnat. Old fogeys of my generation want information, want balance, want to make up our own minds about issues that have real effects on real people. We’re not getting it, whatever the Medium.
Pointman – I have to get my news on-line or via the BBC 24 here. Actual newspapers can be bought if you are in town (or some of the resorts in the summer) but they are five times the price as they are printed in Athens and flown in. I’m sure you’re right about young people – I’ve not seen anyone younger than 25 reading a newspaper for years.
Blackswan
Last night I was sat in a bar. I closed my eyes and listened to the guys around me talk about where to get the best weed, find the easiest/cheapest girls and which concerts put on the best shows and which ones were best when just out of ones mind. I looked at them and found that they were all aged from 45 to 60. Then they went on about which series was the best, outlandish fantasy series A or B. I tried to make an informed comment about how they were probably both shit, but I couldn’t get a word in edgeways.
By you guys standards, it seems I may still be in the yoof crowd. I’d rather read a newspaper than a screen, but newspapers now are such dubious quality and I only ever really want to read an article or two in them anyway, the rest is just bumpf. And I have to pay for it.
I always pay for Chinese newspapers, because I still find it hard to read Chinese on screen. Maybe those who have learnt how to read English, whether they are native speaker or not, for only a few years, have the same problem.
Hi Pointman
“How many other people find their kids get all their news from the web, I wonder?”
My kids are 23 & 24 and neither watches TV or reads newspapers. Their information comes from the web and blogs. I read papers on-line and sometimes watch the ABC (though their Labor/Socialist Spin is deplorable), banal commercial TV drives me nuts, and if it hadn’t been for the terrific links other people on blogs have posted, I’d never have found so much enlightening information on issues of importance to me.
It will definitely be the Internet that will take down CAGW and the Govts that bleed their citizens dry on its Fraudulent Theory.
Blackswan 9:54
Hi Swanny,
Yes, now I come to think of it, the sort of juvenile behaviour you expect of teenagers seems to have spread to anyone under 40! I suppose if we are staying younger longer at our age it probably has a knock-on effect on the 20 & 30 year olds. I was an employer for about 30 years, and for the last 10 or so I used to purposely try to employ older people as I found them much better workers and far more responsible and reliable. That’s a generalisation of course, I also had some brilliant youngsters, but as a rule that was the case.
It’s the whole celebrity, Facebook, Twitter thing I find unfathomable…. I can’t think how anyone could be so self-important as to imagine other people would be interested in the minutiae of their life, surely they have better things to do? Maybe not! It’s sad that they have such limited horizons, and have to have all these virtual “friends”. Do they not have any REAL ones?
I know we all spend time on these blogs, but we DO have a life apart from them.
I know I sound like a grumpy old fogey but I just don’t understand it.
Blackswan says:
October 25, 2010 at 10:29 pm
“…neither watches TV or reads newspapers”. Talking to people, I find that to be the case in general. TV appears to be watched by only the very young or the very sedentary old. All news organisations are downsizing and the only TV outlet that’s actually expanding is Fox News. I don’t watch much of their output and indeed don’t agree with a lot of it but it appears to challenge the MSM concensus on whatever it’s reporting on. Whether you like it or not, its content is both provocative and interesting and perhaps that’s the way the MSM needs to get back to, if it’s to survive. Time will tell but it can’t go on bleeding advertising revenue and losing audiences as it’s been doing.
Pointman
Locusts & Wild Honey says:
October 25, 2010 at 10:14 pm
Back in the day, when I was in my own yoof crowd, we’d get into animated discussion on civil rights, apartheid, the Vietnam war and which of our friends had been conscripted, the Space Race, JFK and the “grassy knoll”, all that stuff. As for weed – you either smoked it or you didn’t, nobody fussed about it.
Today, in my own peer group, most conversations get around to politics. Even if the topic is trips or holidays, it all gets back to taxes, superannuation and what we can afford these days. If it’s about Education of our children and grandchildren, it usually comes back to politics and how the Left has hijacked and dumbed it down. Some friends really like hunting or fishing – Politics again and how these activities are so restricted today.
If we talk about celebs or favourite singers, it’s usually about how old someone is looking, then we look at each other, smile wryly and pour another glass.
It just seems to me that younger folks don’t appreciate how detrimental these latest policies will be for their lives and their prospects for a home and family. Mass Myopia.
BTW Locusts, thanks for the link on the Royals and their profiteering hypocrisy…. I’ve been ruminating on that one all day.
Swan,
My point was, a random snippet of conversation from any age group of people may leave one disappointed. Those conversations still go on, and last all night, though maybe under the influence of different narcotics, or not.
People still haven’t stopped trying to work out the world. Probably best not to expect too much of people who don’t have the benefit of grizzled experience.
Glad you enjoyed the link!
meltemian says:
October 25, 2010 at 10:30 pm
I agree with you Mel – why on earth do people imagine what they had for breakfast to be so fascinating to the world at large?
On this blog when folks share some story about their lives it’s really interesting and so varied. For instance – I’ll never go to Europe or the Mediterranean – I can’t imagine what it’s like for you to live on a Greek island, (I’ve met a lot of Greeks but they’re all Aussies…lol) and see real historic sites thousands of years old. Our white European history is only 200 years old, the blink of an eye.
I think people here share generously at the B&G but, in the main, I still think we’re real people who live real lives.
Pointman
I don’t get Fox News – it’s on cable here and I can’t afford it….LOL Got to keep the overheads down and the Internet is my window on the world.
meltemian says:
October 25, 2010 at 10:30 pm
I don’t ‘do’ the social networking thing but I notice they only appear to interact with people they know personally. It’s usually friends, extended family and and ex-college or ex-work people. I know there are individuals who collect thousands of ‘friends’ but these seem to be the exception rather than the rule.
Because they tend to dip in once a day, they’re usually first with family and friends’ news and the like. I tend to make a point of asking them on a regular basis if there’s anything happening. It does pay off …
Pointman
Locusts
Grizzled? Oh gee – I was thinking more along the lines of sagacity.
Sage makes good stuffing.
Only in turkeys or geese, not swans.
Norman Tebbit sez:
It was crownarmourer who asked what went on at the Bilderberg meeting I attended. Not much, I fear. I think it was all pretty tame discussion in which I suppose I labelled myself as too unreliable to talk in private with the big boys.
Swan.
Haha.
Hi Blackswan !
October 25, 2010 at 10:58 pm
///It just seems to me that younger folks don’t appreciate how detrimental these latest policies will be for their lives and their prospects for a home and family. Mass Myopia.///
Spot on. (sigh)
Here the demos (sometimes violent) and picket lines (sometimes very violent – the gov’t sends in helicopters) are now in the seventh week. (re-sigh)
It’s all about pushing the optional retirement age back from 60 to 62, and the mandatory retirement ago back from 65 to 67 years of age.
A couple of weeks ago the Socialist “leaders” told the secondary school students to go out and demonstrate on the streets. The Socialist teachers are right out there with the kids …
While walking the dog last week Amerloque ran into a group of “demonstrators” trashing the street. He said to one that if he, Amerloque, were in their shoes and “demonstrating”, he’d be demonstrating for jobs tomorrow rather that for some mythological “retirement” in 40 or so years.
Amerloque is sad to report that the “youth” didn’t have the faintest idea of what he was talking about. The penny simply didn’t drop – one could see it in his eyes.
As the French say: “On n’est pas sorti de l’auberge !” (which can be summed up as “We’re not out of the woods yet !” (grin)
Best,
L’Amerloque
L’Amerloque at 11:52: Excellent points. Don’t these young people, these students, realize that THEY are the ones who will be paying for this extended retirement? Students demonstrating and rioting for security for old folks (well, older folks — I don’t consider 60s old but then I’m not 20). I thought students were for reckless freedom and the right to make asses of themselves and a wreck of everything else by demanding power they don’t understand and can’t effectively wield. Shouting in the streets the equivalent of ‘I want the state to coddle me!’ and ‘I want the state to coddle older generations even though I’m just putting a millstone around my own neck!’ is not what I ever expected.
I thought ‘auberge’ meant ‘inn’? Surely you’d want to be out of the woods and into the inn?
Can’t chat today because all hell is breaking loose. Well, slight exaggeration but it’ll do.
Ciao.
Hi, L’Amerloque.
The real thing that is amazing is that anyone thinks the “concern for the planet” lie from the leftards has any long-term traction, or ever existed in the first place. Anyone can see how they treat each other socially. That the new youth is capable of caring about drowning polar bears or anything else alive other than themselves and their things is a hard sell to me. If they cop that act, they are styling, not caring. People embrace greentardedness now because it has a direct impact on their hireability, it enables them to hook up with cute hippy chicks, and for this month, anyway, it is still fashionable to embrace greentardness’s edgy, wedgy, dark, ironic, sarcastic, head-bobbing three-chordedness.
I’ve been inside many nursing homes to do pre-upgrade HVAC scope of work surveys. Don’t tell me the new generation cares about anything except their mouths and gonads. It is not true if one contends thusly.
Of course, they like to bully others and spend other people’s money for them without asking permission. Nature doesn’t have the final vote on anything. I have not seen that scabies-covered pig in the line in front of the voting booths once, ever. That is because Nature does not exist. Nature is an insensate, brutal, indifferent yet coercive concept which, like top-down government, does not exist but for people pretending it is anything other than bully-boys trying to get their way through circumventing constitutional means to further their agendum. There IS no government, only people sharing a common and real set of ground rules for reaching mutually acceptable decisions outside the framework of physical violence, just as is there no concept of Nature but for the shared delusion of some benign mother-figure left over from the primitive animist age of our cultures which concept is just another greentard hand puppet for subjecting others to their unelected rule.
I have seen the harmony of Mother Nature, and it is straight out of Karl-Heinz Stockhausen and John Cage LOL I be shootin’ that bitch if she be skankin’ and drankin’ in my hood.
If they love Nature that much, let them hug a tornado.
This is how self-inducedly imbecilic people are about wildlife altogether, and in the press, no less. The Exmoor stag shot is listed in the Delirium Tremens as weighing in at “more than 300 lbs.” Try more than 1,500 lbs. if the thing is 9 feet tall including the rack.
Pathetic.
They would know clearly how much they weighed if a stag stepped on their foot or they pasted into one with their car.
Hello Amanda !
October 26, 2010 at 12:34 am
Actually, the word “auberge” here is a slang term for prison. Prisoners use it when one is fed and lodged but cannot escape. Figuratively the locution is simply a polite way of saying that the “imprisonment” continues with no end in sight yet.
Now, back to your regular programs … (grin)
Best,
L’Amerloque
FYI….. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/news/8085354/Firefox-extension-exposes-Facebook-and-Twitter-passwords.html
Also wordpress.
I’ve always liked the things Bjork produces. As an artist, she’s simply fearless. The words and visuals in this one really tell you her views on suppression of any kind. I think she’d feel quite at home in the B&G. Enjoy.
Pointman
crownarmourer says:
October 26, 2010 at 1:43 am
Just in time for the US elections LOL Who gets the cake job of aliasing the Prez?
Crownie, they use the s***p word there.
Amanda,
Ref. Margaret Mead.
I wonder if this is your friend writing here in Scientific American.
In any case eerily timely and suggests the blogosphere is having an influence.
Notice how he notes eugenics in the opening para then neatly dodges the issue by concentrating on ethnography.
SB
Oops here’s the link:
http://www.scientificamerican.com/blog/post.cfm?id=margaret-meads-bashers-owe-her-an-a-2010-10-18
Hi Stepping-on-toes Bear !
October 26, 2010 at 12:49 am
///That the new youth is capable of caring about drowning polar bears or anything else alive other than themselves and their things is a hard sell to me.///
Yup, for me, too, in the sense that I am in the winter of my life, and they are in spring. (sigh)
Yet …
Not all members of that generation subscribe to the eco-bee-ess fortunately. Our offspring here are conservationists, somewhat in the Baden Powell / Teddy Roosevelt fashion. They fully understand that whether the earth is warming or cooling, man can’t do diddly. This comes not so much from a “scientific” education but from a “philosophical” and “historical” education, which we deliberately wanted for them. None of this public, Socialist school stuff, either: private girls and boys’ day schools with uniforms and suchlike. We were fortunate enough to be able to do it, so we did. Mme Amerloque is a full-time Mom.
I wonder every day that the world hasn’t exploded yet. (sigh)
When I think about what it was like, only 20 or so years ago … and what it is today. Remember the “telex” ? Remember when one had to call the LD operator in the morning to schedule a long distance phone call in the afternoon – and it cost a bundle ? Remember taking a commercial aircraft before deregulation – a civilized experience (that cost a bit …) ? Remember when there were only a few TV channels, and not 231 like today on cable ? Remember when “fast food” emporia were few and far between ?
I say the above not because I am an old fogey, nostalgic for supposedly “better” years. (grin)
I say it simply to underscore the fact that change happens sure, always will … but what seems to have taken on more importance this time around is the _rate_ of change that is occurring. Older people, let’s face it, have trouble with “change” but now it seems like it’s on fast forward.
Riding the tiger of change seems to be beyond the powers of many, yet the current “youth” are lapping up what they see around them, not realizing that the tiger is running faster and faster and … not being able to place “change” or “rate of change” in context. They’re just going with the flow, as they’ve been taught to do by teachers who don’t understand shinola about societal centrifugal forces, but are instinctively heralds of and teachers of the centripetal … what could be more centripetal, as it were, than self, than meditating on one’s belly button ? (grin)
Best,
L’Amerloque
Didn’t I read somewhere that the definition of maturity is when your mirrors turn into windows?
Amanda – Have you tried the vegemite yet? I found some in one of the stores here so I bought a jar. Interesting – it’s similar but different, still trying to analyse the difference.
G’day All.
New post here.
Cheers
Oz
Here is No. 6 or 7 of non-sequestration based carbon monetizing projects underway. That includes the Hatfield/B9 Coal monster hybrid fuel cell jobbo, Oxford’s CO2 catalyst to chemicals project, and a number of urea mfg. op’s.
http://www.carboncapturejournal.com/displaynews.php?NewsID=666&PHPSESSID=d1c9j1ruuh2k0igi9rk7mo0qs1
Cameron is rethinking also sticking the bill for carbon capture and storage to the electric customer, too. Thin edge of the wedge. All the carbon monetizers have to do is break even, and that is the end of underground sequestration, carbon traders, and subsidies for alternative energy except for (as has always been the case) efficiency improvements and upgrades, which most often manifest themselves as developmental transition “technology bridge” loans.
Bye-bye, climate change ticks, lice, leeches, tapeworms and remorae:
http://www.carboncapturejournal.com/displaynews.php?NewsID=664&PHPSESSID=d1c9j1ruuh2k0igi9rk7mo0qs1
Amerloque, having been a telex operator as part of my duties for an export/import operation in the early 1980’s, I am glad they are gone. What a pain in the neck, literally, especially if you got your tie caught. The lever-actuated calculators I miss, though. I liked the smell of the lube and the brass and the crunching, whirring, clockwork gears sound they made.
The jury is still out on the new kids, but many of them in the 18-30 age bracket are worth 10 of me, hands down, when I was that age LOL! The lot of them accuse the Boomers of abandoning them after having pillaged most of what is worth having, and they are right to a certain extent in that charge, not realizing that the WW II generation did a far more thorough job of eating up all the seed corn, putting paid to Boomer ambitions in much the same way except in many circumstances far worse.
I don not think, for instance, the deprivations and losses suffered by the general populace in any way approach the extent and the severity of the late 1970’s and early 1980’s. We Boomers have done a very thorough job of burying those bodies in an unlocatable manner.
The expansion of my office space has just finished. I am glad that I decided to do it. I am about to hire a couple of people to work for me, my advertising company has grown quickly. Even though the office space has now changed my wife and I decided to not move the water cooler. We both like it where it is. We joke that the cooler is my good luck charm because my business really took off right after I had it delivered. I will always grab a cup of water before I go out on an important appointment.