Anthropogenic Global Warming and Parallel Universes

There are times when I must confess to being a little confused. Everyone I talk to says the Anthropogenic Global Warming debate is over. I’ve said it myself more than once. But what is meant depends on to whom you’re talking. People who believe in AGW point to the IPCC’s reports, the proclaimed warmest April on record, then to carbon taxes, emissions trading schemes and the like, that are either now in force, or in various government’s legislative pipelines, and proclaim it’s a done deal. Sceptics point to condemnations of the IPCC by many of its former authors, the coldest January in living memory, say the scientific theory of AGW has been conclusively debunked, point to back-tracking by various other governments (including my own in Australia, which has deferred re-introducing legislation into parliament for at least three years), point to Climategate, lawsuits and so on. Both sides have marshalled any amount of scientific and other evidence, and everyone seems perfectly satisfied with their conclusions.

I should know. I’ve spent the last six months in a pub brawl at the UK Daily Telegraph, on the blog of the man who coined the term ClimategateJames Delingpole. And while I’ve personally been on the sceptic side, I’ve been wondering lately what a visitor from Mars would make of the whole thing, having spoken to both sides. He may well conclude that earthlings are living in parallel universes, any causal communication between them being physically impossible.

Over to you.

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439 Responses to Anthropogenic Global Warming and Parallel Universes

  1. Pointman says:

    I’m sure you couldn’t give a rat’s ass about AGW at the moment. Congrats Mr & Mrs Ozboy. Enjoy.


  2. crownarmourer says:

    I suppose it boils down to a battle between logical thinkers and emotional thinkers yet again I have a graph in crayon with a hockey stick to back me up on this and some hastily assembled data from a man down the pub.
    You also have a third group of narcissictic sociopaths psycopaths exploiting it for their own nefarious ends for control, power and money I think they are called politicians and finance fund managers.
    Some scientists have come up with AGW because they did way too much acid back in the 60’s and it was all revealed to them by an omnipotent rubber plant.

  3. realityreturns says:

    Hi all

    For those who believe in the anthropogenic control of climate through CO2, remember:

    Dr. Oliver K. Manuel Professor of Nuclear Chemistry of the University of Missouri- Rolla, has authored more than 100 scientific papers and published research in peer reviewed literature, rejected rising CO2 fears in 2008. Manuel wrote to CCNET in February 2008 that there is an “irrational basis of the current scare over global warming.”

    “Compared to solar magnetic fields, the carbon dioxide production has as much influence on climate as a flea has on the weight of an elephant.”

    After decades of work demonstrating that Old Sol is not a hydrogen ball fusion reactor but a variable star, finally NASA start to draw the same conclusions from the evidence. How long before Hansen’s AGW alarmism and the rest of his twaddle are sidelined by FACTS?

  4. izen says:

    Whatever the political responses to the advances of scientific knowledge, the history of the WAY in which the AGW theory emerged helps us understand WHY there has been a political response.

    “It is an epic story: the struggle of thousands of men and women over the course of a century for very high stakes. For some, the work required actual physical courage, a risk to life and limb in icy wastes or on the high seas. The rest needed more subtle forms of courage. They gambled decades of arduous effort on the chance of a useful discovery, and staked their reputations on what they claimed to have found. Even as they stretched their minds to the limit on intellectual problems that often proved insoluble, their attention was diverted into grueling administrative struggles to win minimal support for the great work. A few took the battle into the public arena, often getting more blame than praise; most labored to the end of their lives in obscurity. In the end they did win their goal, which was simply knowledge. “

  5. David says:

    Congratulations ozboy, glad it all went well. Best to your missus.

    @ Noidea

    David is fine. I look forward to your response. Grown-up conversations are my favourite, it’s just they were hard to come by on the JD blog, having been usurped by witless vitriol.

  6. NoIdea says:

    @izen on June 10, 2010 at 4:26 pm

    Hi, Izen.

    I am still working on the replies to the posts on the previous thread, to yourself and David.
    Whilst looking for links and references I noticed that I kept bumping into Thomas Midgley and his nemesis Clair Patterson. I am sure you are aware of the backers of the enterprise for which Midgley was so (or secondly so, depending on your stance on CFCs) infamous, General Motors, Du Pont, and Standard Oil.
    When we examine the history of suppression and collusion between the governments of the day and the big corporations involved, we see immediate parallels in today’s science fields.
    Funny how we can both think we are the Clair Patterson’s in this debate.
    I noticed as I scanned through JDs blog that there was a paper shortage after the First World War, and that this may have resulted in bunch of deforestation. If we look at who benefitted from these circumstances, we find that” Those thought to gain the most were Hearst who owned large timber holdings which feed the paper industry. DuPont who dominated the petrochemical market, which manufactured plastics, paints, and other products of fossil fuels and the Secretary of the Treasury and owner of Gulf oil Andrew Mellon who pushed legislation through congress giving tax breaks to oil companies.”
    Is there any correlation between the suppression of the principle paper crop (hemp) and the increased deforestation due to increased paper shortages?

    Hi, David.

    I found avoiding getting too involved in witless vitriol quite straightforward. When confronted by a particularly vitriolic and witless one, hold them up to the light and expose them, hopefully with a little wit, no vitriol required.
    Where you Joe?
    I always enjoyed his posts, they made me crack up.
    I am still working on my reply to you; I am a bit busy at the moment, so it may be a while. You know how life is.


    Congratulations on the new arrival. I hope she does not keep you awake too much.


  7. Mack says:

    Well done Mrs Oz [and Mr Oz] and welcome new baby girl.

  8. @David June 10, 2010 at 5:01 pm

    Thank you David (aka theepilogue aka siftingtheshit). Could you now please stick to one handle on this blog. I’ve asked you before.

  9. scud1 says:

    Yes…Many congrat’s to Ozboy, Ozgirl and their newly arrived Ozlet.

  10. Mack says:

    Locusts says:
    June 10, 2010 at 4:24 pm

    Naughty girl,what ever did she say? I hope she did not quote rude bits from Kenneth Williams 😉

  11. aurelian says:

    After reading A.W.Montford’s excellent “The Hockey Stick Illusion”, I came away with the strong view that climate science (if such a thing can be said to exist) is in its infancy, and that it largely consists of some very ropey statistical analyses of some very unreliable data.

    I still think that Lord Lawson’s fine little book “An Appeal to Reason – A cool look at global warming” contains much good sense on how to cope with any putative warming.

    My scientific background is nil, so my views can have no authority. Like the little boy in the tale of the King’s New Clothes, I am not a qualified tailor. (Was that your joke, Ozboy? Forgive me for pinching it.)

    So, in the spirit of science fiction, and purely for your entertainment, let me suggest a visit to The Electric Sun at There will be found a theory which looks considerably more robust than the AGW contention.

  12. Mack says:

    NoIdea says:
    June 10, 2010 at 5:28 pm ” no vitriol required.”

    I must confess to using vitriol,nitro,30mm canon and napalm on that ducky creature.His glowing references to the wonders of Islam at times when the remains of young chaps are being brought home is just too much .But we have a new home here safe from twats so I can lock up the weaponry 🙂

  13. Mack says:

    izen says:
    June 10, 2010 at 4:26 pm
    “Whatever the political responses to the advances of scientific knowledge, the history of the WAY in which the AGW theory emerged helps us understand WHY there has been a political response.”

    I think that if you take note of what NoIdea has said about deforestation and the subsequent suppression of hemp growing you might come to the conclusion that it is all about money? Money used to alter the political machine?

  14. orkneylad says:

    Many congrats Oz. 🙂

    RR – Interesting article…..pendulum is swinging back.
    Science -like sport- doesn’t mix well with Politics.


  15. Mack says:

    crownarmourer says:
    June 10, 2010 at 1:07 pm
    “Some scientists have come up with AGW because they did way too much acid back in the 60′s and it was all revealed to them by an omnipotent rubber plant.”
    While they were hiding out in Canada ?

  16. Locusts says:

    Just been on the guardian website. Their comments section is so much better than the telegraphs now.

  17. Mack says:

    Locusts says:
    June 10, 2010 at 6:37 pm

    Just been on the guardian website

    Slumming it?

  18. orkneylad says:

    “When you don’t like the poll numbers, make up your own poll”

    All is to be doubted.
    Rene Descartes

  19. manonthemoor says:

    To msher, posters, bloggers, lurkers and even DT staff

    Yesterday about 12 hours ago msher made an appeal to reason via the Damian DISQUS blog to which I tried to explain the reasons for the situation at that time

    I have made a significant number of posts over the last few days ALL OF WHICH I STAND BY, however we live in a dynamic fast moving environment and we have to learn to make best use of it.

    My philosophy has always been that THE PEN IS MIGHTIER THAN THE SWORD, which today we would rewrite as the keyboard is mightier than the A10.

    I have a number of points to make and all are open as usual to comment and criticism.

    1/ The Anti AGW cause is too important to be derailed by petty problems

    2/ James and the posters have made a powerful team against AGW whilst providing a resource of knowledge about the real facts.

    3/ I would emphasise the word TEAM because that is our success, we all have a lifetime of skills and everyone of us has made their contribution.

    4/ Our strength is in the TEAM and for this to be diluted or destroyed would be a win for AGW and possibly a blight on the world.

    5/ What happened last night was a collapse in confidence in the intentions of the DT and the statements by James, Damian and Kate with regard to moderation even outside the ill advised introduction of DISQUS.

    6/ Fortunately thanks to ozboy and Rastech we have a means to continue in our own way if that be the choice of fate.

    7/ I would make the point that the DT now needs us more than we need the DT, and if progress is to be made the DT have to decide their policy, rather than follow a path of unintended consequences.

    8/ Reality Returns published yet again a list of nearly 100 active contributors to our cause, I would suggest for the time being we support ozboy as much and whatever is required to continue his good work, and we the TEAM continue as before.

    9/ I have said before that making fun of a situation can be sometimes the most destructive force. What happened last night on the DT was an embodiment of that in real life. We the commenters made a mockery of that site and demonstrated our ire and dissatisfaction of the moderation process. I suspect the DT must now not be best pleased.

    10/ So we are able to continue as a TEAM without the DT but the obligation is on the DT to decide if it wants to kill the golden goose. I for one have not abandoned the DT yet, and will watch to see if their chosen solution is worthy of support.



    Thank you

    Ps It is now 9:53 am UK time and have not read ANY posts since 10:30 pm last night, but I needed to get this off my chest first.

  20. manonthemoor says:

    Having now read the posts here, may I add my congratualtions to the OZ family as well.

    Further to my rant aboe, I notice many of the regulars have arrived, we need to publish our ongoing existence as widely as possible even via the DT and JD blogs, as a source of informed and open discussion.

    ps I wonder if links to here will be moderated in future!!!”!!

    pps off now to read and update on DT and JD blogs

  21. Mack says:

    orkneylad says:
    June 10, 2010 at 6:55 pm
    “For example, only 9 percent of respondents said they knew about the East Anglia e-mail messages”
    I just left a note suggesting that it was time to call the other 91%

  22. theunbrainwashed says:

    Dude I hear that

    A. It ain´t over till it´s over


    B. One has to wait until the fat lady is singing……

    Oh Sheeeeeeeee-it


  23. Locusts says:

    “We the commenters made a mockery of that site and demonstrated our ire and dissatisfaction of the moderation process. I suspect the DT must now not be best pleased.”

    Be careful, I’ve already been banned once for expressing dissatisfaction through ridicule!

    slumming it?

  24. theunbrainwashed says:


    I just got up and it’s nearly Bedtime again!


  25. Mack says:

    Locusts says:
    June 10, 2010 at 7:15 pm

    I can’t go slumming it at the gardiner any more, I’m too old for the excitement.I would prolly blow a head gasket reading the tripe, you know they start off all reasonable ,then wham,second paragraph and its all crazy stuff.

    JD has a new blog, and msher is…………… .what is msher doing?

  26. ScouseBilly says:

    Congratulations Ozboy and to your enhanced family.
    Will be back later. I have ladies to entertain today.

    To all, YNWA

  27. Edward Longshanks says:

    To Ozboy and Mrs Oz and to little Ozzie.
    Heartfelt congratulations!
    Hope Mrs Oz is feeling OK.
    To the little one, bless you!
    Well you know what Oz, today the hard work starts, cos you’ve to look after, love her and be the ‘oracle’, guardian, teacher and hardest part parent and father.
    But you wanted that!!……… so savour the moments, a new life, Lord Al..mighty…. I’m so chuffed for you and Mrs Oz.
    (Even tho’ I don’t know you I feel a kinship on some level and to empathise is one of the Human races’ greatest attributes.)
    Better go or I’ll get upset:>))))))))))))))))))))))

    Congrats, Ed.

  28. manonthemoor says:

    Just about to post this on the Damian DISQUS blog

    They seem to be ignoring my plea to recover documents as well


    Its 11:17am UK here and I have only just caughtup with the last 12 hours ‘progress’

    You know I share your concern about the recent disruption.

    Unfortunately WE, all of us are guilty of reacting to the disruption by forces who support AGW and we have allowed an excellent dialogue to become corrupted.

    We unfortunately took the ‘bait’

    I have posted my proper response in ozland since it is never clear what will survive here, or indeed whether and posts will be found again.

    Also I would point out that the ozland is entirely civilised, it merely required the tools available within WordPress to be applied correctly. Something that the DT sadly missed out on.

    I look forward to your further comments in ozland.

    All is not lost I hope

    manonthemoor 10 June 11:30

  29. Green Sand says:

    Congrats to Mr & Mrs Ozboy and welcome to the new arrival!

    Nasa have swapped the shuttle for a cutter, getting mighty crowded up in the frozen north!

    Comments available at:-

  30. G’day all once again,

    Heartfelt thanks once again all of you for your well wishes from across the planet. Mrs Oz is extremely chuffed.

    For those of you who don’t know, I put bubs on a separate thread here, leaving this one clear for the AGW debate. I really do appreciate your comments, but as I said in my first post on this blog (written before all this DT fiasco broke), I don’t want this blog to be about me, but about you.

    Apparently James at the DT today has got around to addressing something called Cheap Oil (I hope I heard that right, bubs was making a lot of noise at the time). Can someone tell me, where can I buy some of this Cheap Oil, and can I use it to replace peanut oil in this recipe?

  31. Mack says:

    libertygibbert says:
    June 10, 2010 at 8:37 pm

    Entok smelly duck!!! jesus that’s brill, I’m going straight over to use that at the renegade

  32. manonthemoor says:

    libertygibbert says:
    June 10, 2010 at 8:37 pm

    Just been to little oz thread

    Most impressed by the beard

    Hope Mrs oz is well

  33. Amerloque says:

    Hi libertygibbert !

    Congratulations to you and Missus L concerning the new arrival !

    A time of peace and rest is now in order !

    Amerloque 20100610 13h30 Paris time (CET)

  34. aurelian says:

    Having always exerted myself to be courteous, I was miffed today to see that Mr Duckham had replied ungraciously to a comment which I had made last night on James Delingpole’s landmines/windfarms thread.

    I had said:
    I can’t stand this.
    Every time someone starts to say something interesting, either the comment is edited by a moderator, or some of the replies are deleted.
    These jarring intrusions render connected discourse impossible.
    aurelian 09JUN10@2057BST

    Mr Duckham began his reply by saying
    “Just all of you try being polite. It isn’t hard.”
    before going on to complain of the rudeness which he had endured at the Telegraph website.

    If he had intended that as a generality, he should have said so. By replying to my post, he implied that I had participated.

    I therefore broke my rule of never engaging with such people and replied:
    I have always been at pains to post with the utmost courtesy.
    I do not need lessons in good manners from you, Mr Duckham.
    aurelian 10JUN10@1119BST

  35. Mack says:

    Ducky is still causing pollution over at JD’s,I have had to admonish him thus “Entok, sneer in your usual fashion,but you are a sorry example of what happens when chaps turn on their own kind.You have lost the trust of most folks here and I bet your new pals will also have their doubts as to your reliabilty. History has not been kind to renegades. 2

  36. Amerloque says:

    AGW, aka “manmade global warming”, is a scientific, intellectual, political, financial and moral scam. The climate has been changing for millions upon millions of years.

    The IPCC is the biggest perpetrator of scientific fraud that the world has ever seen.

    Individuals and organizations involved in this fraud should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

    Civil suits should be filed to recover grant money and subsidies given to individuals and organizations participating in the fraud.

    Amerloque 20100610 13h35 Paris time (CET)

    Now is not the time to let up !

  37. Amerloque says:

    I know that most men, including those at ease with problems of the greatest complexity, can seldom accept even the simplest and most obvious truth if it be such as would oblige them to admit the falsity of conclusions which they have delighted in explaining to colleagues, which they have proudly taught to others, and which they have woven, thread by thread, into the fabric of their lives.

    —Leo Tolstoy

  38. Mack says:

    aurelian says:
    June 10, 2010 at 9:33 pm
    I have not been known for politeness and have never been offered a job as a diplomat but I do respect folks like yourself and wish all would be so in all walks of life,never mind blogs etc. My respect for others however is tempered by experience and I will wade in at the first sign of folks being abused in their homes or in public and have had a few exciting moments in dealing with ruffians who would snatch bags or engage in other forms of mugging.Getting a bit old for that now but keep in mind the danger of allowing one broken window to go unrepaired.

  39. Locusts says:

    That new forum should have a thread devoted to the quotes of the clevers

  40. aurelian says:

    @Mack June 10,2010 at 9:44 pm
    You’ve got a great attitude, Mack.
    As Amerloque says, now is not the time to let up.

  41. rastech says:

    Orkneylad:”Science -like sport- doesn’t mix well with Politics.”

    Government doesn’t either . . . . .

    “All those who would assume the mantle of public affairs would be well advised to heed two of Plato’s rules: first, to keep the best interests of the people so clearly in view that, whatever their own interests, those of the people will guide their conduct; and second, to care for the well being of the whole body politic, and not that of any one political party, especially not one which is prepared to betray the interests of the state for its own gain. The administration of the affairs of state must be taken like a public trust, to be undertaken for the benefit of those entrusted to one’s care, and not for the benefit of those upon whom the trust is conferred. Indeed, those who undertake the charge of government for the benefit of their political party while neglecting other parts of society infect the public calling with a dangerous virus–they introduce discord and sedition. If some adhere to the party of the plebes, and others to the elites, then few will serve the needs of the state itself.” Cicero

  42. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    On my recent excursions around the Limestone Coast of South Australia and Victoria, I came across hundreds of wind turbines, having no idea there were so many already operating in Oz.

    As I walked along sandstone cliffs with dozens of the slowly rotating giants skewering the coastline, a fellow tourist (a stranger about 60 yo) fell into step beside me, remarking on “how wonderful” they were.

    Swan: “Really? How so?”
    Man: “Well, they’re much better than coal-fired power stations and all that carbon pollution”.
    Swan: “Carbon dioxide’s a building-block of life. Since when has it been a pollutant?”
    Man: “Everyone knows that”.
    Swan: “How much of our power do you reckon they produce?”
    Man: “Plenty, and more with every one they build”.
    Swan: “In the UK they have over 2,000 of them that supply less than 1%. Good value for money do you think?”
    Man (quickening his pace): Dunno, but they say they are good for the planet”.
    Swan: “Who’s they. The people making millions from them or the taxpayers who subsidise them?”
    Man (disappearing down the track) muttering: “Smartarse” over his shoulder.

    You’re absolutely right Oz, those who believe and those who don’t seem to live in some sort of parallel warp, each equally convinced of their “righteous” cause.

    Interestingly, thanks to what I have learned courtesy of our Team on JD’s blog and the wealth of links and cross references cited by such learned and experienced folks, I’m finding that those who are still AGW devotees simply can’t justify their claims beyond “the science is settled”, but the many ordinary local folks we engaged in conversations in pubs, coffee shops, camp-sites, tourist venues and the like, were pretty much all of the opinion this AGW caper was “a crock of shit” among many other descriptive phrases.

    “Bloody money-grubbing politicians trying to bleed us dry” seemed a common theme without ever going into the pros and cons of any “science” debate.

    Saw a TV News clip of Tony Abbott(Opposition Leader) the other week declaring that he was now convinced that human activity was causing climate change while the MSM is flogging the fact that PM Rudd backing off on the carbon tax for three years was just another broken Labor promise. Go figure.

    How this will all pan out is anyone’s guess, but I’m grateful that I’ve been able to justify my opinions with the wealth of information you folks have provided over these many months. Thank you all.

  43. manonthemoor says:

    @Mack says:
    June 10, 2010 at 9:44 pm

    Sometimes I am guilty of putting the cart before the horse as well, but we both recognise that does not necessarily invalidate the argument.

    I have suffered from ‘shoot the messenger’ as well

  44. rastech says:

    Blackswan:”but the many ordinary local folks we engaged in conversations in pubs, coffee shops, camp-sites, tourist venues and the like, were pretty much all of the opinion this AGW caper was “a crock of shit” among many other descriptive phrases.”

    The cat is well and truly out of the bag, and the more it is attempted to reinsert it into the bag, the more nails are being hammered into the AGW coffin.

    Comprehending cause and effect, let alone unintended consequences, doesn’t seem to be a particular strongpoint . . . .

    So it goes with fanatics, always they sow the seeds of their own destruction, with wild abandon.

  45. fenbeagle says:

    congratulations Ozboy

    Do we know enough yet, about the worlds climate, and mans contribution, to be in complete agreement? On what it is, let alone what should be done, if anything, and by who, and how, and to who’s benefit?

  46. Amerloque says:

    —>>> Blackswan Tasmania

    A fellow out in Orange County, California, one Mark Landsbaum, has written “What to say to a global warming alarmist”.

    As he says, at your next dinner party, here are some of the latest talking points to bring up. (grin)

    These short summaries are also useful for recalling events related to Phil Jones’ recent confessions.

    ClimateGate, FOIGate, ChinaGate, HimalayaGate, PachauriGate, PachauriGate II, SternGate, SternGate II, AmazonGate, RussiaGate, RussiaGate II, U.S.Gate, IceGate, ResearchGate, ReefGate, AfricaGate, DutchGate, AlaskaGate.
    Now is not the time to let up ! (grin)

    (reposted here; was posted on the dead DT blog)

    Amerloque 20100610 15h45 Paris time (CET)

  47. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    @ Rastech 11.11pm

    With politicians of all colours jostling to secure their positions on the AGW bandwagon purely to justify their intention to “tax to the max”, even though so many of them KNOW it’s all bunkum, how can we avoid being plunged into a never-ending vortex of penury for the sake of a “notion”, a myth, a chimera, a Lie.

    Simply a propaganda means to a financial end.

    AGW has snowballed to the stage where they don’t have to “prove” anything anymore.
    The truth isn’t even part of the equation.

    Methinks that when it comes to democracy, the horse has bolted over the horizon and the stable doors are banging in the wind.

  48. manonthemoor says:

    I finally got to the DT moderation policy DATED 31 May????

    They claim that moderation is by reader report, the DISQUS declaration of facilities would seem to dispute this.

    There is no way that ‘reader report’ can operate 24/7 hence the DISQUS ‘rules’

    This would yet again seem to suggest we remain in the tender care of oz

    Thank you oz (and family)

  49. Amerloque says:

    Hello All !

    “Vent de Colere (i.e., “Angry Wind”) is a French non-profit association founded to fight “industrial windmills”. “Industrial windmills” are defined as those large ones which a) are being connected to the grid and b) are disfiguring the countryside.

    The site is at:

    The site is excellent, with information on all issues: deign, installation, maintenance, as well as the economics of windmills and legal issues. One particularly useful series of files are the “how to” files, e.g. one fine day the mayor and or town council decides to put in windmills … and here are the arguments to make them think twice (or thrice) and back down.

    Something:like 400 (!) French anti-windmill non-profits associations from all ’round the country are members of Vent de Colere.

    This is a great site … if one reads French. Perhaps across the pond Canadians might be interested … and in the rest of the world, of course, those who read French … are those who have an online translator to hand. (grin)

    Now is not the time to let up ! (grin)

    20100610 16h10 Paris time (CET)

  50. manonthemoor says:

    @Amerloque says:
    June 11, 2010 at 12:18 am

    An intersting link to the French Windmill protesters (Vente de colere)

    Can I draw our readers attention to the English bit within the site, of groups in the UK who are challenging this failed solution.

  51. fenbeagle says:

    Thank you for the link. Its at times like this that I regret not being able to speak or read hardly a word of French.

  52. Edward Longshanks says:

    Reading your intro’ DADDY, here’s my take on conspiracy, because that is what AGW is.
    A somewhat rambling treatise but I’ve no time to rewrite it.

    The roots of man made Armageddon stretch back into history probably as far back as original sin.
    That it’s all our fault is a common meme and Noah rescued us and all species bless him after God became a bit pissed off with us (and who could blame him?).

    The world now is a fractious and disparate place, the bulwark of western civilisation, that of Christianity ( read here what an atheist thinks: is all but nigh gone and the cement which held society together is gone. There is now a vacuum of moral certitude (rectitude), selfishness is championed as the way to get ahead, celebrity and wealth are the new Gods. There will be societal breakdown or anarchy around the corner in Britain…… if it hasn’t happened already.
    In place of the Judaeo-Christian tradition, we have a weird mixture of secularist agnosticism and atheism and many millions people who will believe in just about anything that is served up (by Simon Cowell).

    In Britain in the fifties, at the national exhibition in 1951 we lead the way (so we thought) in scientific innovation and development, this was the dawn of a new age and the old ways were behind us, Britain looked forward to a revolutionary Nuclear age of clean cheap energy, faster public transport, the new age of the car and ever better labour saving devices that would lift the whole nation out of post war austerity and propel us toward the promised land.
    Macmillan averred in the late fifties that, “we’ve never had it so good.” it was prophetic because he was probably right. The sixties were the decade when it all came to a head and started to go down the tubes.
    In Britain and over in the states the bane of civilised societies was permissiveness and a constant decline in education and schooling and moral teaching. Since the thirties in Britain, the ‘elite’ had toyed with and swallowed the idea of Marxism and control of the masses, Socialist teachings and philosophy was the ‘in’ thing, in Britain it was given free rein. The Anthony Crossland changes to the our once great education system were introduced under Wilson’s government and we are still reaping this diseased crop.
    In many University campuses science was compromised, non more so than in the Humanities faculties, especially in Universities like East Anglia – which became a byword for communism and holding extreme socialist sympathies.

    The study of Environmental science became a popular subject for students wanting to take a science degree but unable to because of more rigorous qualification levels – either through poor schooling ( because of the changes to schools see above) and /or poor science qualifications.
    Environmental studies faculties were in part based in Humanities faculties hot beds of radical loony left thinking.
    In the late sixties there was a schism, between the more traditional campuses and the new glass and concrete Universities including some (mainly London) Polytechnics. ‘It was along political lines and standards of teaching/lecturers. This split lead to the birth and adoption of post normal scientific thinking in these newer institutions where empirical science and testing of hypothetical ideas was less than rigorous, here the growth of Environmentalism and later climatology was rapid.

    The postulation of many outrageous disaster visions has been manifold, we will one day be covered by another advance of ice, this is not a postulation it is a certainty. At the beginning of the seventies some scientists thought that the earth was going into a new ice age, this was a little premature, some of these scientists notably have changed their tune and now predict that; the emission of man made CO2 will cause the world runaway warming by the end of this century or whatever.
    So we have a propensity for man to believe in his imminent demise, a breakdown in the educational system of this country and its institutions and a burning desire to believe in anything.
    Coupled with a scurrilous political ‘elite’ who believe in power for its own absolute sake and to remain in power requires the people to be cowed, hoodwinked and browbeaten by spreading and perpetrating visions of impending apocalypse.

    The fundamental breakdown of right minded thinking and of empirical science plus a media dominated by the BBC who are pervaded by graduates of the new Universities and the same with the MSM means the population is wide open to manipulation and propaganda Armageddon BS.

    The concrete and glass Universities cottoned on quick and saw the potential for earning not only easy but permanent funding for jumping on the bandwagon of AGW.
    A perfect vehicle for post normal science, the new and improved climatology nee Environmental science faculties, the CRU has never looked back.

    Perfect! The BBC gets what it wants to hear, the Universities receive their funding from a socialist and controlling government -(Lib/Lab/Blue-Lab) who gets what it wants to hear IE, that we’re all doomed, some people (under-educated, credulous empty vessels) start to believe it and bang!…… Enslavement ensues………….. but they shot their bolt too early and over hyped the story and allowed the UN to be too heavily involved and fixed the temperature record, indeed cooked the books so inexpertly it was all too obvious, another reason, why I have such contempt for the idea.
    Conspiracy? You f****** bet!

  53. i_was_ferret says:

    Peak Oil? No shortage here… Ducks will be disappointed. Just read this:

    Saw the link to the link on JD\DT. Basically oil is NOT a fossil fuel. It will replenish naturally, and is a renewable resource. The Russians have known for years – and have even found oil at 13km deep!

    Of interest of course. Keep on burning:-)


  54. Mack says:

    Sodding duckham is out of hand folks,he thinks the moderation of JD’s blog is for his benefit. I had to have a go at him and would appreciate an endorsement of my post over there.
    It reads
    “I note that my reply has been edited by a moderator and that brings me to my next point which said moderator may be able to answer.
    Was the introduction of moderation,limited as it is claimed to be, to enable this Duckham to post his sneers unchallenged? Even someone of his limited abilities must see that this is not so and that constantly denigrating GB , its citizens and serving soldiers is not acceptable behaviour,even on the internet.

  55. manonthemoor says:

    Just posted this on the current DT/JD blog


    Tried to leave a reply message for msher on Damians DISQUS (joke) blog.

    Her post was marked as 16 hours ago, but there IS NO WAY now to add a reply. The reply box is there but no one is listening.

    Words fail me

    manonthemoor 10 June 17:30

  56. manonthemoor says:

    Reset, new page, new user — Still reply is useless

    This means without a degree it is impossible to make a reply or use the system

    NOTE timestamps only appear when logged out — Which means it is even more difficult to reply

    Rant ends

  57. aurelian says:

    @Mack on June 11, 2010 at 2:27 am
    I have just posted the following supportive reply to your post:

    Perhaps they will rename this blog.
    It won’t be necessary to change the monogram on the luggage, although the contents may be much inferior.
    aurelian 10JUN10@1744BST

    I have to agree with you about Mr Duckham. One can have too much of a good thing.

  58. Mack says:

    That is a classic response, I am in your debt 🙂

  59. Locusts says:

    I’ve responded to him a few times already. His posts have been incredibly smug the last few days, and he is posting in every single blog. He used to manage a third, or maybe half the blogs, but now he is just living in the telegraph website. I’m not sure I can see much point getting in to recommend wars. It’ll only mean we’ll split into recommend factions, then it’ll get really messy.

  60. rastech says:

    Turns out SMF *Forum* software defaults to no posting priveleges – for even a Global Moderator! lmao!

    I’ll have another go with a false account and check if it all works now.

    My apologies if anyone tried posting there.

  61. manonthemoor says:

    James live here RE OIL SPILL

    will be available to listen again in a couple of days


  62. Amanda says:


    Re answering Duckham back:

    Good for you.

  63. manonthemoor says:

    @Amanda says:
    June 11, 2010 at 4:47 am

    Hi Amanda == Notice we have seen nothing of the Duck here

    As I understand it ozboy can use his supervisor power to block him and maintain this place as a safe haven
    How nice it is here away from the thicko bean counter mentality at the DT

    We owe ozboy a great debt and as you may have read I am all for ozboy raising a paypal account or equivalent

    AND if James does not soon come out from under his stone within say the next month then its down to ozboy or Rastech to carry the banner.

    James was A1 however this evening on infowars.

  64. aurelian says:

    @Amanda, June 11, 2010 at 4:47 am
    Thank you, Amanda. I appreciated your approval of my post to that government website yesterday. Nothing we say will make the slightest difference, however.

    I don’t like to descend to arguing with the likes of Mr Duckham, whom I imagine has never noticed my remarks, being too busy filling up James Delingpole’s blog with his insights into peak oil. However, I deeply resented his imputation that I had been discourteous, which I imagine to have been the accidental result of his careless writing, and so I tried to set the record straight.

    If Mr Duckham would think more and write less, we would all be the better for it.
    Alas, there is no chance of that. I can picture the revised JD blog now …

    John Duckham is a writer, journalist and broadcaster who is right about everything. He is the author of numerous fantastically entertaining books on peak oil, all of which are identical and all of which he reproduces here every day.

    Meanwhile, in JD’s Cthulhu thread it has been a joy today to see Tucci taking apart the hapless Skeptic on the subject of petrochemistry. I am lost with admiration for his wonderfully scathing putdowns.
    aurelian 10JUN10@2013BST

  65. manonthemoor says:

    @ ozboy

    Having listened to James on the Alex Jones show he was followed by a guy talking about security.

    I assume that this blog and data is being backed up, but it would be a travesty if a method were found to take your site down, can I suggest some sort of reciprocal arrangement with rastech with regard to data, to avoid the ‘pigs breakfast’ that exists with the DT.

    I worry we are playing with the big boys and they play rough

    Forewarned is forearmed

  66. orkneylad says:

    aurelian – agree, tucci’s take-down of ‘Mr Tweed’ was awesome. laughted my backside off.

    “You wanna look into it and get back on that? Or do you so despise the Web that you have to wait until you can find it in dead-tree format in a library someplace?
    Hm. What the hell are you doing on the Web in the first place?”

  67. aurelian says:

    @orkneylad June 11, 2010 15 5:48 am
    Tucci was great.
    I particularly enjoyed …

    You think you’re the only guy on the planet who ever had to pass a college course in organic chemistry?

    Or did you pass that course?

    … and …

    Perhaps the way you’d jumped to the conclusion that the energy required for TDP was gained “from burning (some) polymers” explains why you USED to be lecturing in thermodynamics.

    And aren’t doing it currently.

    … ouch.

  68. orkneylad says:

    wow I have 33 ‘myT red reports’ today……..getting some extra green backs up!
    Fullwise ungreen revolution in progress. 🙂

  69. Edward Longshanks says:

    manonthemoor says:
    June 11, 2010 at 5:45 am
    Do you think ‘they’ would resort to that?

    A good blog by Jo here:-

    Pert to your title, there is not much common ground between the two sides, what the scientists amongst the realists await, is real evidence of man-made Global warming and since it ain’t and to my mind never will be forthcoming, the argument seems a little moot.
    Public opinion is what the alarmists crave and they have ballsed that up big style with their propaganda war CAGW bandwagon losing most of its wheels.
    I will keep on attacking and as always…….. all done in the best possible taste:>)


  70. orkneylad says:

    aurelian – “on the internet nobody knows you’re a dog”

  71. manonthemoor says:

    Re internet security, to open a new Gmail account they do not use an email confirmation system, YOU HAVE TO PROVIDE YOUR PHONE NUMBER and they phone back

    So they have all the internet details and data traffic, effective GPS location, now they want expect phone numbers

    How long before they add facial recognition to surveillance cameras, the equivalent of number plate recognition with a relevant database ??

  72. Mack says:

    UK wind is now delivering 11Mw .That’s correct,eleven megawatts .From an installed capacity of c4500Mw

  73. aurelian says:

    @orkneylad June 11, 2010 at 6:06 am
    Tee hee. It just got better and better.

    The huffy Skeptic ended up justifying himself to Tucci in detail. He explained that he had published numerous peer-reviewed papers (surely the kiss of death, given the latterday subversion of that process by the Hockey Team), had then quit academe to become a millionaire, and then he’d retired, and now he was off to make his tea and he wouldn’t be responding to further posts, so there.

    I’m left with the mental image of some oldster shuffling through a vast mansion in his slippers. In the kitchen, there’s some dusty glass tubing and a couple of retorts left over from his work on Phlogiston. Meanwhile in the study, the pooch is at the computer, posting away on JD’s blog.

    By the way, folks, I’ve got a PayPal account, so if Ozboy wants a small contribution I’m ready to do the deed.

  74. aurelian says:

    @manonthemoor June 11, 2010 at 6:26 am
    It’s when they ask for a stool sample that I draw the line.
    Wait a minute. The NHS sent me a kit for that last year.
    This is getting scary.

  75. Morning all,

    Glad to see you all still here today. Re the duck, he hasn’t dared to show his face over here yet—he regards me as being beneath contempt anyway. I’m surprised he’s still about: if you didn’t see it, a few days ago, he RIP’d himself from the Delingpole blog, right after I started taunting him in Bahasa Indonesia—significantly, he pulled me up on my use of the Bahasa word for bottle. Silly twit probably woke up the next day with no recollection of the exchange. As I said at the time, just ignore him.

  76. I assume you’ve all seen this –

    I saw a few people post it up, and it’s a really good piece of work.

    It’s almost even handed, and I like the conclusions it draws.

    @ Noidea

    Re: the CO2/ Temp graph, there is something I am still confused by. I notice that in the document which the graph links to for its CO2 model – – it says:

    This means that over the long term there is
    indeed a correlation between CO2 and paleotemperature, as manifested by the
    atmospheric greenhouse effect.


    I also note that in the ‘Global Warming Advocacy Science: a Cross Examination’ document I have just posted up it says:

    “Consider first the long-term, or paleoclimatic relationship between CO2 and global mean temperature. What seems to be clearly an undisputed finding from ice core data is that over the broad 500 million year plus time frame of the Phanerozoic era, there has been a positive correlation between atmospheric CO2 levels and global temperature. Even a casual review of the climate literature, however, reveals that there is far less agreement on the direction of causality. That is, apparently cool and confident statements such as this — “the climatic impacts of CO2 variations are large enough that they appear to be a primary driver over the Phenerozoic, rather than simply a passive response to changing climate” – in fact conceal considerable uncertainty over the long-term (that is, Phanerozoic era) causal contribution of changes in CO2 to changes in global temperature. On the climate side, there is an apparently very methodologically robust finding that over the last 600 million years, earth’s climate has cycled over periods of about 135 million years between warm and cool modes. There is much less agreement in attempts to reconstruct atmospheric CO2 levels over the entire Phanerozoic period, but the various reconstructions do agree that atmospheric CO2 levels have been low and decreasing over the last 175 million years…But over the Phanerozoic period as a whole, at least one long-term CO2 reconstruction finds “no correspondence” between atmospheric CO2 levels and global climate, while other studies find periods of up to 100 million years when high levels of CO2 were accompanied by cold temperatures in at least some regions of the world (indeed so many such periods that one review has characterized this finding as one of “perisistent Phanerozoic decorrelation” between tropical (low latitude) temperature and modeled CO2-induced radiative forcing).

    There are of course inherent problems in trying to explain the relationship between
    CO2 and climate over the hundreds of millions of years of the Phanerozoic – among
    others, the fact that tectonic forces have shifted not only continents but also global ocean circulation patterns over this period…[the] reasonable response of scientists arguing for the primacy of CO2 in climate change to the complex Phanerozoic climate-CO2 relationship is to simply say that precisely because of the massive changes in the earth and its system over such a long time period, the Phanerozoic record really is not very relevant to predicting the future impacts of present day CO2forcings.”

    To my amateur mind this says two things:

    1) That the temperature measurements and/or the CO2 model the graph uses are not universally, or even widely, accepted. It would appear that generally speaking it is accepted that there has been a past correlation between CO2 levels and temperature, although this has been disputed by some papers – which leads me onto number 2…

    2) There are too many variables to make a half-decent stab at working out what past CO2 levels were, and therefore the whole exercise is a little pointless.

  77. orkneylad says:

    aurelian – too too funny!
    He was thoroughly dephlogisticated.

    Night all,

  78. rastech says:

    I *think* I have finally managed to get the posting ability on the SMF forum software sorted.

    Getting there has done my head in though, so I’m off for a pint of Jack Daniels and a can of coke.

    Maybe see you tomorrow. *grins*

  79. Mack says:

    Night all, early night for me as the old back is playing up again.

  80. G’day Rastech – how’s your site going? Apologies, not been there yet myself but heard some good raps from the folks here.

  81. i_was_ferret says:

    Oh dear. HMG’s Climate Change Policies were bound to crash and burn. Their web site says:
    “Fatal Error
    If your blog does not display, please contact the owner of this site.” etc.
    I wonder whether they’ve still got all our posts, or will they be conveniently “lost”…


  82. Green Sand says:

    O dear, o dear, the stench. Climate Audit & Bishop Hill are on the case:-

    British Due Diligence – Royal Society Style

    Something is floating on the tide which is coming in very, very quickly and it ain’t got anything to do with rising sea levels.

    “You can fool too many of the people for too much of the time” (James Thurber)

  83. crownarmourer says:

    theepilogue yes it gets harder to model past climates the further back you go but you say with certainty what type of climate was enjoyed at a particular region what latitude it was at at the time . The closer to the modern day the more in focus and the finer the scale we can see.

  84. crownarmourer says:

    Duckham is over on Nile Gardners blog calling the Falkland Las Malvinas.

  85. Green Sand says:

    For once and probably an only time I applaud The Guardian “Environmental Blog”

    “Decc’s real-time public display gives energy waste no place to hide”


    “Even more fascinating still is the Home Office graphic (see above) – harder to find via a link from a link on the department’s website home page. This is a more basic model showing simply energy use for each of the last seven days. This time the most striking feature is the bizarrely low electricity and gas consumed on Friday of last week – even less than either of the weekend days following it. How could this be? Did the department generate lots of its own energy from solar panels on the roof that day? Did the computer network crash? Were a great many civil servants on half-term? This afternoon a Home Office spokesman said he could not find the right official to ask, and offered to respond on Friday. Watch this space…”


  86. izen says:

    i_was_ferret says:
    June 11, 2010 at 2:07 am

    “Peak Oil? No shortage here… ..-link to article on abiogenic synthesis of hydrocarbons at extreme pressure and temperature-.. Basically oil is NOT a fossil fuel. It will replenish naturally, and is a renewable resource. The Russians have known for years – and have even found oil at 13km deep!”

    Several problems with this theory.
    complex hydrocarbons formed at great depth/pressure would degrade to methane and carbon/CO2 as they rose to shallower/lower pressure depths.
    Oil formation from biological sources can be tracked in geological sediments of different ages and depths.
    Oil contains hydrocarbons which are the known breakdown products of chlorophyl.
    Oil has the reduced Carbon13 isotope ratio that is the fingerprint of biological origin rather than geological/abiogenic origin.

    Finally, nobody proposes that abiogenic synthesis rates are anything close to present extraction rates, even with the most optimistic of abiogenic synthesis rates, at ~80 million barrels a day we are depleting the resource FAR faster that it could be formed.

  87. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Ooops what happened?
    Wordpress threw a leg out of bed for a while.

    Green Sand @ June 11, 2010 at 7:30 am
    Thanks GS for this link re the Oxburgh farce.

    These SOBs are so blatant now in their bald-faced lies and manipulation of this issue that they obviously consider themselves rendered impervious to any repercussions.

    They even cite sceptics in “the blogosphere” as causing them some concern.

    Speaking of blogs………..

    Up till recently I’ve been fairly ambivalent about JD and his role in recent events.
    Two months ago, after his spray at commenters for challenging his paid fare to Dubai

    “And to those of you muppets who accuse me of any kind of cowardice, moral or physical, I should like to raise my middle finger and invite you to swivel thereon……… Your sanctimonious posturing disgusts me more than I can say. I’m glad if you’ve decided no longer to read my blog. You are not worthy of it and you can rot in your smug, safe little beds”,

    plus, on the Disqus re-configuration to his blog

    “Some of you seem to be under the impression that I don’t love you or that I have not been fighting your corner over the great comment redesign. You should be ashamed of yourselves for making such unfounded accusations…..I am doing what I can and have been assured that my blog especially will be kept moderation-light….. But FFS, some of you, give me the benefit of the doubt and get off my case”.

    Well, I regard myself as a sceptic generally, not simply in respect of AGW.

    My ambivalence has coalesced into a definite opinion of JD, justified from the man’s own keyboard.

    What an arrogant, patronising and dismissive attitude to the very people who have given him his high profile. I don’t appreciate being admonished (albeit collectively) by such a self-serving arrogant prat. I don’t appreciate those whose intelligence and expertise I respect being patronisingly dismissed like a bunch of schoolkids with the “I don’t love you any more” crap.

    Get over yourself James. You’re a legend in your own lunchtime.

  88. crownarmourer says:

    izen I have heard of the theory but like I mentioned it was as yet unproven, there has been some evidence but not enough to say with any confidence it is true, the jury is out on that one and it may be some time before we get a definitive answer as no one is really looking for one. So currently yes it the Scottish Not Proven.

  89. izen says:

    Edward Longshanks says:
    June 11, 2010 at 1:46 am

    “Reading your intro’ DADDY, here’s my take on conspiracy, because that is what AGW is….
    In Britain in the fifties, at the national exhibition in 1951 we lead the way (so we thought) in scientific innovation and development, this was the dawn of a new age and the old ways were behind us, Britain looked forward to a revolutionary Nuclear age of clean cheap energy, faster public transport, the new age of the car and ever better labour saving devices that would lift the whole nation out of post war austerity and propel us toward the promised land.
    Macmillan averred in the late fifties that, “we’ve never had it so good.” it was prophetic because he was probably right. The sixties were the decade when it all came to a head and started to go down the tubes…”

    While your analysis of Mans propensity for assuming guilt for anything that goes wrong and the recent sociological changes in belief systems may have some validity it does not apply to the science of the AGW theory.

    The AGW theory was essentially established by the mid 1950s, everything since has been dotting the i’s and crossing the t’s. The predictions of the theory have been confirmed by the better measurements, stratospheric cooling etc.

    The basic theory was first put forward in the 1890s.
    The supposed impossibility of human industry ever producing large enough amounts of CO2 caused it to be rejected.
    Around the turn of the century (inaccurate) measurements of the absorption spectra of CO2 indicated that any ‘greenhouse’ effect of CO2 was swamped by water vapour, so even if industry did add significant amounts to the atmopshere it would have little effect. Again the AGW theory was rejected.
    In the 1930s there was some indication that CO2 could be a significant energy absorption factor in the atmosphere and the AGW theory again was proposed. but it was thought that the natural sinks, especially the oceans would prevent any significant change in atmospheric levels so it was again rejected.

    In the 1950s much more accurate measurements of the absorption properties of CO2 were made which established its role as a significant energy balance component of the atmosphere. Military research into where nuclear weapon fallout may end up enabled scientists to study and track elements and compounds through the atmosphere and oceans.
    This work made it clear that there were significant limits on how much CO2 natural sinks could absorb over time. The oceans were able to absorb much less than previously thought on short timescales. It could take millenia for significant atmospheric increases to be returned to equilibrium by the natural carbon cycle.
    Finally the direct measurement of CO2 and its obvious rising trend established that fossil fuel burning WAS increasing the atmospheric levels.
    By the end of 1957 the role of humans in causing a geo-chemically significant change to the second most potent warming component of the atmosphere was no longer a doubtful hypothesis, it was established fact.

    Everything since then has been a case of filling in the details and trying to get a better grasp of just how MUCH change in climate the change in CO2 is likely to cause.
    The scientific argument over AGW ended fifty years ago, its not a case of whether it exists, its a question of what effects, or what price it will exact.

    In science, some things get settled, (heliocentic solar system, common ancestry) and some things are uncertain and continue to be the subject of research. (Gravitation, Darwinian evolution).

    That AGW exists is an inescapable consequence of the measured physical properties of the atmosphere. What effect it will have on the climate, and what effect that has on human societies is the uncertain and much researched, (and sometimes hyped) aspect of the ongoing science.

  90. msher says:


    Congratulations on the new arrival. I hope she is healthy and brings you and your wife much joy.

    Very nice web site you have here. You have clearly put time and effort into it…..and intend to put a lot more? Running a web is time consuming, and this looks like it might be an ambitious one. Do you have plans you can share?

    There are a couple of reasons for asking. First, it almost seems like an imposition on you to sort of land here by default, leaving you to do all the work (and maybe pay the expense) of running the site. Second, regardless our feelings about the new DT format (and I hate it), posting substantive material there has a possible benefit beyond the immediate blog. It may be of use to James, who does have a platform to disseminate information and ideas. I have seen over the last year that he does use material that posters sent him or posted. I don’t know whether material posted here will be used elsewhere. If not, when people have really good material, shouldn’t they post it both places? I have never cared about James or the DT per se – whatever they are is incidental. To the extent either is a platform they count. As your article says, the warmist agenda marches on in its parallel world – unfortunately, the predominant one, and it is still vital to do everything possible to stop it.

    That said, good luck in making this an important blog. (Meant sincerely, not sarcastically.)

  91. Amanda says:

    Aurelian 10 June 21013 BST:

    oh, what a giggle — I refer to your re-write of James’s intro with Ducky’s details, of course….

  92. crownarmourer says:

    izen the commom ancestry bit just got well how shall we say it complicated and the PC biological crowd are now eating crow. Not that it makes any difference we are all human but may explain some minor differences in physiology such as Europeans have an extra layer of fat kind of thing.

  93. crownarmourer says:

    that should be common not commom.

  94. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    @ msher June 11, 2010 at 1:12 pm

    We share your concerns, particularly as Oz now has a 3 yo toddler, his newborn and the convalescing Mrs Oz to focus his attention.

    Many posters have offered to contribute via Paypal………
    Add me to that list OZ.

  95. Amanda says:

    Msher is admirably rigorous and detached: ‘I have never cared about James or the DT per se’. Whereas, I can quite see how some people might well care about James per se and/or the DT per se, particularly given the way the PREVIOUS format and Jamesian give-and-take illuminated actual personalities. But then to a certain extent that is where Msher and I differed: she felt that posters were essentially merely givers of posts, the valuable posts having no personality; while I believed that the posters ineluctably revealed a certain character through their posts, almost regardless of the subject matter, and what’s more, that the more personal or colourful posts enhanced the entire blog’s appeal. And James himself is nothing if not colourful, even if navy is somewhat gauche with orange AND lime green. So to speak. However, all that is a matter of taste. But it’s very evident, from what so many commenters have said, that they are concerned about the issues at hand while also liking the human dimension very much. I think, since AGW is so much about human follies, hopes, and power-plays, this attitude adds up.

  96. Amanda says:

    Hello Crown, Blackswan. G’day to you at 11:57 p.m. Smoky Mountain Summer Time.

  97. crownarmourer says:

    msher the cost is free on wordpress when you set up an account you get x amount of space and bandwidth, however should ozboy’s blog take off big time we will fast outstrip those resources and that is when cost comes in, so blogs when old may have to disappear to save space.
    ozboys time managing this is priceless. We can help by spotting trolls letting him know so he can block them. Opposition with real arguments are welcome of course we agree to disagree sort of attitude. So nobody post a novel unless it is relevant.

  98. crownarmourer says:

    amanda g’day envy your vacation in the Smokies which about 10 years back the EPA were really concerned about all the Ozone being created and were going to do something about this pollution and it had to stop. It must be people obviously.
    Well it wasn’t it was the trees creating it, so if they had gone ahead a massive deforestation program would have had to be implemented.

  99. Locusts says:

    Time for some adsense maybe?

  100. Amanda says:

    Blackswan: re what you said above with reference to a reference to swivelling etc: I hear you.

  101. Amanda says:

    Crownarmourer: well you’ll be relieved to know that there’s still plenty of oxygen up here, as me and Mr Amanda and the dog are all breathing without special masks….

  102. Amanda says:

    Crown: How is Memfrica right about now? Hot and clammy? Houston I hear is disgusting.

  103. izen says:

    crownarmourer says:
    June 11, 2010 at 1:48 pm
    “izen the commom ancestry bit just got well how shall we say it complicated and the PC biological crowd are now eating crow. Not that it makes any difference we are all human but may explain some minor differences in physiology such as Europeans have an extra layer of fat kind of thing.”

    Actually I was referring to the common ancestry of ALL life on Earth.
    With Humans sharing 98% of Chimp DNA and 40% with the Banana special Creation is not a viable concept.

  104. Amanda says:

    So nobody post a novel unless it is relevant. — Crown.

    ME: oh, blimey. That’s me in the doghouse, then.

  105. Amanda says:


    And don’t forget 50pc with the fruit fly.

  106. Amanda says:

    Oh and by the way, Blackswan, I loved the ‘legend in your own lunchtime’ zinger when you first used it months ago, and I still like it. Obama and others like him should have it whispered in his ear or put on a plaque on his desk — sort of the modern equivalent of the slave saying ‘remember you are mortal’ in the Roman emperor’s ear.

  107. Amanda says:

    sorry the above post ain’t grammatical but you’ll mentally fix it

  108. crownarmourer says:

    msher well the one thing James D has picked up is my love of 1920’s 1930’s H P Lovecraft horror stories specifically the Cthulhu mythos.
    I will continue to post over there and here as we could get a little inbred here if we are not careful so it might be a good tactic to post there and if an argument on the science gets heated or the politics but the censors are working overtime maybe encourage folks to come here and let the gun fight at the OK coral begin. Always encourage new blood to come here, it’s not to say we can not be civil to each other.
    Not every blog will be serious and there will be bouts of lots of us guys acting childish but hopefully we can start some serious discussions as well.

  109. crownarmourer says:

    izen who says I’m from this planet…

  110. crownarmourer says:

    Now could someone tell me how to just post the link and not the whole picture.

  111. crownarmourer says:

    izen a common bit of an old misconception anout how much we share in genes. The differences are caused by how those genes are expressed the real differences are how those genes are expressed and that is done in the junk section of DNA, I could look it all up but it’s late epigenetics and micro rna is all I can quote for now.
    It also means you can also blame your mother for a lot things as diet and stress affects how genes are expressed.
    Fortunately for you you are not a fruitfly otherwise you could have been born with a thingy on your head.

  112. crownarmourer says:

    Sorry did I say thingy I meant leg.

  113. msher says:


    Your’e absolutely right. Personality adds a lot. I did not mean to dismiss either James or the DT, only that personality isn’t what I am mainly looking to either for.

  114. crownarmourer says:

    msher and amanda what’s a personality and where do I buy one?

  115. msher says:


    Let me add a question: is there loyalty owed to James or the DT? There are some of us who hung out there for many months, in a pretty intensive way. I think that the DT has done a format change that they thought was an upgrade that the readers and posters would like and that they did decide to censor abusive comments from either side. They might still tweak both format and censorship. But even if they don’t, is that a “betrayal” such as to merit people commenting on a blog competing with the one that James has obviously spent a lot of time building? I am talking about James’ website, not the DT blog.

    I have always made it clear that on the AGW issue, I engage with the material, not the persons, and with respect to James, with his efficacy as a spokesperson, so I’m not sure I have any loyalty questions. Even so, I am not comfortable giving all my business, as it were, to the competition. Even if the competition didn’t start as competition, and ended up competition almost by a fluke. That is also not to take anything away from this blog, if it does a good job.

  116. Amerloque says:

    —>>> manonthemoor

    /// I worry we are playing with the big boys and they play rough///

    My feeling exactly.

    AGW is big money, and big efforts –whatever it takes – will be made to keep that gravy train on the tracks.

    /// Forewarned is forearmed ///

    The old proverbs are the best. (sigh)

    (Aside: One might wonder just how much the references to UKIP and BNP in the DT blogs contributed to their, er, evisceration.)

    Amerloque 20100611 08h00 Paris time (CET)

  117. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Hi Amanda,
    Glad your Smokey Mountains holiday is fine and no breathing apparatus required.
    Want a weather report from Tasmania? Well, at 42 deg latitude, they do call it “The Roaring Forties” not the “Moderately Breezy Forties”.

    A few days ago an Antarctic front blew in and as we speak (so to speak) it is snowing on the Wellington Ranges (about 6 kms away), down to about 700 metres. Darned cold and scything wind-chill. After the northern hemisphere winter, maybe this is the southern equivalent, as it usually only gets this cold in late July. Global warming, my fat aunt.

    Re the “legend” comment……..
    Years ago someone cut me off at the knees with that one. Never forgotten and I use it only when I deem it necessary. For the Oval Office? Nah. The response would be “Huh?”

  118. msher says:


    “One might wonder just how much the references to UKIP and BNP in the DT blogs contributed to their, er, evisceration”

    Has such censoring occurred? Don’t they seem to be after what the filters consider abusive?

  119. Edward Longshanks says:

    Aleister Crowley and H.P. Lovecraft did they ever meet I wonder? They were two similar souls?
    I used to read Dennis Wheatley (at school) he was influenced by Crowley.
    Can’t say I read much Lovecraft – he was very dark.

    I liked Walt’s description of Obarmy as the, “kid with the infinity credit card!”

    The Antarctic sea ice has remained steady, there has been increasing sea ice in the Antarctic for many years, take a look at this graph,

    You will notice the sea ice extent is approx’ as high as most recent years going back to 1979, what is crucial to remember is the winter in the South is only just commencing, as I am sure you do not need a reminder!
    The southern Hemisphere is forgotten about here in the North, the Beeb never mention the Southern Hemisphere unless it is about cracking ice shelves,
    You yourself will know that the South’s winters have been as savage as they can be in recent decades, global warming? My………ar**….:>)

    regards to all,

  120. crownarmourer says:

    msher I deal with similar filtering technology it is well plain dumb, I’m not familiar with the DT setup at work we fought a constant battle with proxy server users and people looking at porn. We tried to strike a balance between fair use and misuse it’s not easy when our job is stop lawsuits and attacks both cost millions.
    However it seems Kate is going for out of the box filter with no tweaks to the filter itself she is way out of her league technology wise.
    They can adjust the settings and remove key word or phrases I’m sure like I said the software is dumb.
    Things may get better if they understand what they are doing and it also depends what directives they recieve from management which is usually equally dumb. Heck our own management contradicts itself constantly. It always boils down to liability’s, bandwidth and cost.
    So no nefarious plot just people not knowing what they are doing.

  121. crownarmourer says:

    Edward Logshanks I don’t think they met but the rumour was Aleister Crowley met his end and ruin by gettin lazy by summoning up a demon a forgetting to send it back, his luck changed for the worse.
    If you believe in that nonsense.

  122. Edward Longshanks says:

    OK doesn’t have the monopoly on political ecofascist, delusional vote losing nutters does it?
    There is nothing so pathetic as false self piteous angst over a mythical and non existent threat unless it is really about one’s fast disappearing popularity….. .

  123. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    G’day Ed @ 5.04pm

    Thanks Ed, currently 8 degC, feels like 4. Poor Ozboy will be chopping firewood for months to keep those babies and Mrs Oz warm.

    Speaking of Walt, anyone heard from him lately?

  124. Locusts says:

    (Aside: One might wonder just how much the references to UKIP and BNP in the DT blogs contributed to their, er, evisceration.)

    I think this must have played a role. And that would be why Damian Thompsons blog feedback column was so weak.

  125. Edward Longshanks says:


    Yes I read about Crowley summoning a demon and have read many accounts of demonic possession and exorcisms.

    I had a friend who was fascinated by Crowley, he very sadly took his own life very prematurely, I thought or wondered if it was something to do with his morbid fascination for the occult and dark forces, though we were only kids.
    The guy in question only became truly animated when talking about his love of Crowley, Occultism and death and was given to dark moods which I put down to his Irish blood but he was a good kid as well and a brilliant scholar of languages, I liked him immensely, his death was such a shock.
    Can’t say I believe any of it (Occult),
    to dismiss it out of hand though is to be mistaken too, for many people set store in it, who knows?

    “There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
    Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.”

    Better leave it there or people will start talking.
    regards, Ed.

  126. Mack says:

    Blackswan Tasmania says:” You’re a legend in your own lunchtime.”

    I wonder if he is the son of Lunchtine O’Booze ?

    Mornin all

  127. Edward Longshanks says:

    Blackswan Tasmania says:
    June 11, 2010 at 5:28 pm

    Good evening Blackswan,

    No I haven’t Blackswan, I had this conversation with Pointman recently who said,
    “he was a little worried about Walt”.
    I know pointy was/is in touch with Walt by Email but haven’t heard from pointy recently, perhaps he’s off somewhere, I don’t know.
    Sorry can’t be of more assistance.

    got to pop off for a tick or two, will be in touch:>)

    regards, Ed.

  128. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    @ Longshanks 5.19pm

    Great link Ed. The best part were the responses, every one of which was telling this Labor footsoldier to pull her head in. Most encouraging.

    Therein lies the frustration in the whole Political perspective on AGW. They just keep chanting the same mantra. “The science is settled” – “We have a consensus”.

    Green Senator Bob Brown was on a TV interview the other day categorically saying “Co2 causes global warming”. From the ABC interviewer no challenge, no question, just a mute assumption that it was an indisputable fact. The Greens are now at 16% in opinion polls, with disenchanted Labor voters going Green. With our preferential voting system, there’s every chance we’ll have a Labor/Green “Accord” in our elections later this year.

  129. Mack says:

    The DailyMash [ hilarious at times and a god way to start the day 🙂 ] has this
    “The Bhopal gas leak killed an estimated 16,000 people and directly affected around 500,000. Union Carbide eventually paid out $450m in compensation. Which is an average of $900 per person. So, as you can see, they really did somethin’ to help those folks down there in India.”
    They are taking a pop at obango today.

  130. Mack says:

    Just looked in at the DT. Not good

  131. Mack says:

    ED,I went to the link you posted and dropped in the addie for NETA so folks can see the wind scam in action in real time

  132. NoIdea says:

    Hi, David.

    Thank you for the links, they have been added to the stack of virtual books I am attempting to wade through. Great post all round I think.
    Your point 2 is perhaps the major point I attempt to communicate, not just relative past CO2 levels though, it’s the whole shebang. The more comprehensive the model, the greater the level of uncertainty, due to an ever increasing amount of variables and unknowns.
    What if the warming (if it is) is not caused by CO2, what if it is the sun or geothermal nuclear or some other not yet understood principle is the cause? If a CO2 increase is a result of naturally occurring temperature increase, it would explain why plants need more CO2 with the extra warmth. IF we do find a way to fiddle with nature to the extent that we do start doing this ridiculous CO2 sequestering in anything other than a planting trees or other plants fashion, and the temperature keeps going up, vegetation will die. There will be no AIR for them to breathe. Remove the CO2 from the cycle of life and all carbon based life will fail. The warmer it gets the more CO2 plants NEED.
    Yes, we as a species do release CO2 into the atmosphere, all aerobic life does. If mankind had not made it past ape, never discovered fire and “nature” had full reign, what would be happening on earth without us? There may possibly be herds of now extinct species wandering across the planet. There may also have been continent wide forest fires, who would stop these raging monsters if not for mankind? How much CO2 would be released with the deforestation of a continent if you burned all life on it?
    @izen on June 11, 2010 at 12:17 pm
    Thank you for the points raised, these are all problems I have been bumping into.
    You have gathered them succinctly and clearly.
    @Edward Longshanks on June 11, 2010 at 5:04 pm
    I have always been an avid reader of Crowley and the history surrounding him. I have not seen any mention of him meeting Lovecraft. Much of his life is however surrounded in myth and legend.
    The fact that L Ron Hubbard of scientology fame was a contemporary of Crowley through his association with Jack Marvel Whiteside Parsons has been established. Hubbard has written of his meeting Crowley; however this may be a non factual account.
    There are rumors that Crowley met Hitler, Hitler is alleged to have said “I have met the Beast, and I am afraid” Trying to tease the reality of what happened from Crowley’s writings may be impossible.
    Crown, the rumor I found about his death, is that he died a penniless morphine addict in Brighton. Apparently he worked one last curse, his Doctor died the same day.
    The interesting thing for me regarding the Occult is you can only attempt to practice it if you have an absolute faith in God, you cannot negate that which does not exist.
    I think that regardless of our personal belief in the Occult, we have to accept the facts that it has many folks that do believe. This gives the Occult some power, if the folks that believe in this faith have power in life; you had better believe that the Occult influences us.
    Do we know who worships what?

  133. Edward Longshanks says:

    Blackswan Tasmania says:
    June 11, 2010 at 5:56 pm
    Yes I know Australian Climate madness are constantly moaning about ABC, ABC do they take their lead from our own Beeb who are the trumpet blowers for AGW ‘consensus’? – I do hope not.

    @Mack says:
    June 11, 2010 at 6:02 pm
    Obarmy is a Britain hater, his prerogative I suppose, he should watch his mouth though about BP, two thirds of BP’s employees are Yanks and (it could be said, there many omissions and much laxity on the government side as well + plus Transocean LTD) the oil spill was not directly their fault.
    BP have promised to pay, what more does he want…..blood maybe?
    Obarmy has an eye on November elections.


  134. Edward Longshanks says:

    NoIdea says:
    June 11, 2010 at 6:27 pm
    Indeed Crowley was an enigma, he was a great experimenter with mind altering substances (a student of Eastern mysticism as well) and it eventually was the cause of his demise, I would have liked to have met him though, his opinions of todays necromancers eg, Gore, Hansen, and Mann et al would be interesting!
    L Ron was a dissembler and a great PR agent for his own brand of crap, a link to Crowley would have been great PR.


  135. Edward Longshanks says:

    Mack says:
    June 11, 2010 at 6:24 pm

    Nice one Mack!

  136. aurelian says:

    Although I regard the occult as being even less plausible than AGW, the wickness of the latter doubtless outweighing that of the former, may I recommend two fine, entertaining novels by the late James Blish? In them, the magical business is thrillingly described, and the comedy is very black indeed.

    “Black Easter or Faust Aleph-Null” (ISBN: 0140034161)
    “The Day After Judgement” (ISBN: 014003868X)

    Both of these novels were published as Penguin paperbacks in the 1970s. A quick Google of their ISBNs will find suppliers.

  137. Edward Longshanks says:

    orkneylad says:
    June 11, 2010 at 7:01 pm

    Wotcha, OL!
    This statement is a bit worrying,
    “But the vast majority believed in climate change and that human activity was to blame.
    Only 18 per cent thought it was mainly or entirely caused by natural processes.”
    Methinks we still have work to do OL.
    It makes one wonder just who was asked, were they all middle class Libdim voters?
    I don’t really believe this type of poll, I do not meet many believers except some of my younger cousins and their friends, I’ve set them all straight tho’:>)
    Another cold winter will concentrate minds ever more on the fact that GW is natural and cyclic and we are now in a cooling phase. Whether we pump CO2e into the atmosphere is neither here nor there as far as the earth is concerned.

    aurelian says:
    June 11, 2010 at 7:02 pm
    Bonjour aurelian,
    I’ll have a looksee (I will use our local library to order) – thanks aurelian, I’ve always had a curious streak and am an avid reader of Sci fi and writers like Koontz who is a man I think (I hope, his thoughts of his characters reveal much of the man and his prose is good) after my own heart.

    Regards, Ed.

  138. Green Sand says:

    Make yourselves ready!!

    Bilderberg Meetings discuss GLOBAL COOLING!!!

    The 58th Bilderberg Meeting will be held in Sitges, Spain 3 – 6 June 2010. The Conference will deal mainly with Financial Reform, Security, Cyber Technology, Energy, Pakistan, Afghanistan, World Food Problem, Global Cooling, Social Networking, Medical Science, EU-US relations. Approximately 130 participants will attend of whom about two-thirds come from Europe and the balance from North America. About one-third is from government and politics, and two-thirds are from finance, industry, labor, education, and communications. The meeting is private in order to encourage frank and open discussion.

  139. orkneylad says:

    Longshanks – yep, plenty of elbow-grease still needed!


  140. Mack says:

    Ed. Obongo hates Americans too. Just like Broon/Bliar in the UK he is using any means that he can to hurt people. I am convinced that Obong is a moslem hell bent on destruction.No conspiracies,he is just a Jihadi that got lucky

  141. Locusts says:

    I’ve just scared myself silly watching that Alex Jones programme the Fall of the Republic. Think I’m going to go get drunk.

  142. rastech says:

    I’ve managed to install a Media hosting package to the website, so embedding videos (e.g. Youtube) is easy. You don’t use the embed coding, just copy and paste the url to the video.

    I’ll get stuff like the LFTR Thorium reactor presentations embedded in the next day or so.

    Posting rights do now seem to be working ok, I’m pleased to say.

  143. rastech says:

    Good find there on Global Cooling Greensand . . . . . .

  144. Mack says:

    JD’s blog and comments are dismal today,not worth a comment.

  145. Mack says:

    In a world gone mad ………………………………it gets worse
    “Ahhh, so they picked “neutral” people”: Like Prasad Menon who heads up TATA. (The not-so-neutral Chairman Pachauri of the IPCC heads up TERI, and the T in TERI used to stand for TATA*. So Pachauri heads up what used to be a subunit of Menon’s company, and apparently still has close ties with it. TERI has won grants for dodgy glacier reports). Menon is apparently “difficult” to pigeon hole as a warmist (at least, if you are a warmist doing the pigeonholing). But sure, let him speak. Just let’s not kid ourselves that he doesn’t have any interest in this.

    Or there’s the impartial Stephen Joseph who manages a company that works with sequestering carbon and fittingly named Anthroterra. It’s lucky there’s no vested interest there either right? And don’t forget David Blood , a senior partner of Generation Investment Management (yes, that is Al Gore’s fund management company). Baroness Amos is the British High Commissioner to Australia, and she’s said she doesn’t even want a debate about climate at all, and much less one the media reports on. The question is not whether the Wheeler Centre found a diverse spread of speakers, but whether they left out anyone from the Big-Scare-Campaign that could have possibly made it to Australia.”

  146. rastech says:

    The Prime Minister’s address to the Nation in light of the grave economic circumstances :

  147. rastech says:

    OOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooooohhhhh! Embedddingdingdingding!


  148. ScouseBilly says:

    I just found this -perfect for a Friday afternoon (sorry for the UK-centricity, Oz) ahead of the start of the World Cup (in Stevie G and Fabio we trust):

  149. orkneylad says:

    Vulnerability to the IPCC Message
    Dr. Richard Lindzen, Massachussetts Institute Of Technology:

    There is one group in this country, that is, people with some claims to education, who are perculiarly vulnerable to this issue.
    And that’s because -quite frankly- most educated people in the States -and elsewhere, why should I pick on the States – know no science whatever, they live in a world dominated by science & technology & they have anxiety.

    Any time you feed these people lines like “all scientists agree” or you give them a simple blanket picture of the greenhouse -which is wrong – & they can grasp it and say “there’s some science I understand” or if you simply tell them “if you don’t believe this, you’ll be an idiot” & they know already they’re on shakey ground, it’s very effective propaganda.
    It’s used time & again; it’s the reason why in 1988 Newsweek began with the statement: “All scientists agree”.

  150. orkneylad says:

    Oz, Appologies, didn’t mean to ’embed’ that……seems the blog is doing this automatically from the htm code?

    Good luck footie fans….

  151. Edward Longshanks says:

    Mack says:
    June 11, 2010 at 10:30 pm
    Same old shit Mack, with same ‘objective’ players and no doubt it’s all the (us) realists fault.
    They are running out of wriggle room as the arguments are knocked down one by one.

    ScouseBilly says:
    June 11, 2010 at 10:55 pm
    I do hope Steven has got his proper Liverpool head on now, cos last season he was a shadow of what we know and admire.
    Good link ScouseBilly, In Fabio we trust, in avanti e in avanti si Inghilterra cavalieri, le nostre speranze riposano su di voi! ……………or summat:>)
    Regards Billy, Ed.

  152. rastech says:

    Jeeeezus Wept Scousebilly! Have you read what else is on that site?

    (Link removed by that arch totalitarian and enemy of free speech – Ozboy)

    I’ll just say that I have heard a fair bit about the subject discussed over quite a number of years now.

    A friend that’s a journalist and photographer, has been present at ‘informal chats’ when other journalists were all saying the same things (and more!).

  153. Edward Longshanks says:

    orkneylad says:
    June 11, 2010 at 11:49 pm

    Good stuff, Lindzen has stuck to his guns another bloke I respect, he stuck out his head and said NO! Enough! and he certainly caused much consternation at his stance, it can’t have been easy, mind you, like Luther and Galileo, it is easy to dissent if you know that you are right!
    Big respect, just look at his qualifications, nuff said.
    Thanx OL!

    regards, Ed.

    rastech says:
    June 11, 2010 at 10:51 pm

    Lo! Rastech,
    Is pointman living on your site now?
    regards, Ed.

  154. Edward Longshanks says:

    rastech says:
    June 12, 2010 at 12:09 am
    Blimey!!! – better leave it at that, don’t want Ozboy to be on wrong end of litigious action or me for that matter.

  155. orkneylad says:

    Fiddling around while awaiting a brief……..have a great weekend fellow ungreens.


  156. Mack says:

    Rastech said I’ll just say that I have heard a fair bit about the subject discussed over quite a number of years now.

    A friend that’s a journalist and photographer, has been present at ‘informal chats’ when other journalists were all saying the same things (and more!).

    Wel lnow, the RC church managed to cover up their kiddie-fiddlers for well over half a century in the USA and Ireland

  157. rastech says:

    Ed, Pointman did register, but the site was at the ‘confusing construction phase’ (might still be a bit, but it is usable now – I think/hope), and nobody was able to post.

    Mack, too true, and these unspeakable scumbags seem to be very ‘interconnected’.

  158. ScouseBilly says:

    rastech says:
    June 12, 2010 at 12:09 am

    How do you think I found it?
    Nonetheless it’s a very funny article – and it is Friday…

    I agree though, it wouldn’t be fair on Oz to open up a discussion on that here.

    @Ed, I hope so too.

  159. rastech says:

    Horrible thought. When talking about contemplating suicide, Jones said he wanted to see his young grand daughter grow up.

    I wonder if he was saying something else?

  160. rastech says:

    Yeah true, delete these Oz please.

  161. ScouseBilly says:

    Rastech, what is the url of your site, btw?

  162. Amanda says:

    Msher, I think we fundamentally agree, actually. ‘Engaging with the material’ was always, in my view, the best way to deal with AGW believers/supporters, who were sometimes unfairly labelled ‘trolls’. Anyone who was simply there for a verbal brawl (i.e. relatively content-free except for abuse) was better off ignored. But anyway we’ve discussed all that: what prompted my comment above was simply my awareness that my own focus shifts in and out: sometimes I’ve enjoyed the blogs most for the discussion per se, and other times I’ve enjoyed it most for the characters that decide to turn up. Obviously, I couldn’t stay ‘on topic’ all the time, not being knowledgeable enough or singleminded enough for that.

  163. Amanda says:

    Ed Longshanks: Hi, nice to meet you. Or have we perhaps met under another name at a different time?

  164. Amanda says:

    Blackswan/ Black Swan:

    Thanks for that fascinating weather report. I am intrigued by your locale but I must say that it’s pleasanter in the Appalachias right about now.

    Cheers to you and your delightful cygnets.

  165. crownarmourer says:

    Well we have cloudy skies and 900000% humidity here at the head of the Delta in Memfrica. Going to be a hot nasty humid summer this year.
    It will probably rain as the gods of golf always decide to introduce a thunderstorm during the last days of the St Jude Classic. Which tiger woods never attends as apparently it is racist of us to offer him the local favourites BBQ and fried chicken.
    Well karma caught up with wonder boy. If only we had offered him some skanky ho’s he would have turned up.

  166. crownarmourer says:

    Yes would be nice to hear from Walt if I’m not mistaken he refused to post anymore info due to the new terms and conditions of the new blogging software. I don’t think he wanted his work being stolen by anyone.

  167. Edward Longshanks says:

    Amanda says:
    June 12, 2010 at 2:01 am
    Hello Amanda,
    I think you may have read some of my stuff……maybe;>)…….. or just given it a wide berth.
    I do read your comments and very much admire your reserve and subtle irony.
    I am at times an impatient and irascible bug eyed blogger, I do not quite use your more accomplished, er……. polished approach.
    I let fly with gusto, the emotion is honest, (English trait) the direction sometimes awry – a two handed sword, to your razor sharp scimitar.
    I like people, especially those with whom I see eye to eye:>)

    Pleased to meet you.
    Regards, Ed.

  168. Amerloque says:

    Stay on point, more ! (grin)

    Self-deception writ large

    Here is an excellent analysis of warmists’ logic (and disingenuousness) as evidenced by Michael Mann and the ‘Real Climate’ site.

    The entire piece is well worthy the read. One might suppose that Sun T’zu wouldn’t have it any other way. (grin)

    Excerpt …

    /// … As to redressing what Mann feels is the balance, he refers to “this website” Real Climate, “that I’m involved in along with roughly a dozen other scientists.” The purpose of the website, Mann claims, “is to try to communicate to the interested public what the science actually has to say.”

    What is both so terribly sad is that Mann undoubtedly believes what he is saying, and expresses his views in all sincerity. One problem, though. is that the site, recognisably, is about advocacy rather than explanation. It does not tell the public “what the science actually has to say” – it is there to defend the orthodoxy.

    Another, more serious problem – which stems from the first – is that the narrative is irretrievably biased, very often subtly, in such a way that the message is wholly distorted, tilted towards the favoured line, in a way that is wholly anti-scientific.

    Yet, all along, it represents itself as the unvarnished truth, as presented by honest (implied) “climate scientists”, thus claiming a superior status over less well-endowed commentary, which is characterised as “the anti-climate science effort.” … ///

    Now is not the time to let up !

    Amerloque 20100611 18h35 Paris time (CET)

  169. Edward Longshanks says:

    “skanky ho’s he would have turned up.”
    Are there lots down there crown?
    In which case he’ll have been there but not to play golf.
    You’re only a stones throw from the cajuns there in Te/Ga, well nearly….Louisiana swamp hounds.
    I am drifting, didn’t Augusta have a very strict code concerning melanistic golfers? Obviously that’s all changed….. bet the ‘ Southern (good ole boys) brotherhood’ hated it.

  170. Amanda says:

    Ed above: Enjoyed your comments and I’m smiling on account of the praise. However I do think there is a time and a place for the two-handed sword, as opposed to the trusty fruit knife, and occasionally I’ve been known to wield one myself….

  171. Edward Longshanks says:

    Amerloque says:
    June 12, 2010 at 2:38 am
    real climate is a pious and very pompous blog dedicated to the religion of total BS and ‘were all doomed’ thread.
    Its adherents are supine groupies who praise the ‘great leaders’ with a grandiloquence which makes one gag and no room for dissenting voices, tho’ I used to try….. just modified or blanked as they say.
    “Yah its all sorted and the science is settled” is their meme, Romm is a scientist, I wonder what happened to probity though Joe?
    Mann is a compiler and willing helper.


  172. Mack says:

    Did someone say Cajun? My favourite type cooking right now, although that will now stop me having cod and chips for dins later. Ham and beans last night, yummy. Anyways Obanga is not into chitlins and grits ,his tucker is more exotic such as sheeps eyes and camels testicles in sambla olek. He takes it easy during Ramandan.

  173. crownarmourer says:

    Here is a little thread from the Mellissa whitworths blog on Sarah Palin and breast implants so of course I’m there.

    ghostdance it is a machine that is filtering you not Melissa, it probably picked up on a key word or phrase of some protected group or other some people are more equal than others kinfd of thing.
    Damien and Kate are obviously not technical people by nature so haven’t figured out you can change the settings. Give them time they will get there currently the machine is singing the Horst Wessel song.

    Just to clarify, we have a team of moderators reviewing each report. We don’t use filters to review complaints from readers. Thanks.

    Not exactly true disqus states clearly they use automated filters on key words and phrases, whether that sends you an email to review I do not know.
    Also why are certain groups protected such as homosexuals and muslims it is noticable any criticism is forbidden.
    I can understand removing anything that could render a lawsuit or uses foul language even down right hate speech, but I find even some of Damiens blogs hateful to my world view if I complain can you censor those.
    Also you do realise a lot of people are joking a lot of the time and are using sarcasm, irony or pretending to be angry which obviously is lost on some people and yes ok I admit it sometimes being childish to let off some steam.
    If I critisize someone then don’t delete my comments let someone tell me why I’m either wrong being bigoted or just plain stupid but they had better be able to argue their case. You do not know me my social circle (very eclectic) or real point of view which may or may not be how I comment….thankyou Loki the Trickster.

    Then you need to hire a new team. Preferably one that understands principle of free speech and perhaps have a robust British sense of humour. I have yet to see a single post later removed that was in clear violation of the DTs rules.


  174. Edward Longshanks says:

    Amanda says:
    June 12, 2010 at 2:52 am
    As they say in these parts, “Good on yer sheila!”
    Well it used to be, the frontier days…….. seems to be behind them now, some extremely wise and talented lads and lasses in Aus now and tres sophisticated…… Amanda -(I am grovelling now cos I’m in Australia – virtually).
    Liked the vid, you are most kind.
    You will be too young but Jimmy (Jeffrey Palmer I think) in Leonard Rossiters’ Reginald Perrin was exBritish Army, his answer to everything was “Kill the bastards!” ..I loved that series and Jimmy.

    Thank you Amanda and yeah! The trusty two handed sword (or even better a halberd) if I can grab one….. is always useful to battle trolls and twonks.
    As Corporal Jones used to say about the fuzzy wuzzies, ” they don’t like it up ’em sir!”
    Mind you who would?


  175. Mack says:

    Crown, just stuck this in,see if it sticks

    ‘May I second all that crownarmourer has said? Delingpoles blog is like a page torn from a prayer book since this moderating was farmed out to a call centre in Jeddah.The DT has dropped a clanger with this as the moderating does not reflect anything of the wit,humour,irony that characterise these Islands. I f there is a real person reading how come bugger is censored from many posts while the same word appears today in this very newspaper ? Go look for it in the online edition and then have a management meeting or sommat to sort yerselfs out. I had posts removed for mentioning Islam and only got one to stick after I copied and pasted what I had just said from one of your own items . Melissa has written an item that is contrast to the breast-beating 😉 codswollop we get from some of the DT columnists and blogers ‘

  176. Edward Longshanks says:


    Free speech? Nah the PC automatons have taken over, much to my chagrin, I’ve read the DT for a few decades and more years than I care to remember, the whole bloody paper and online has been geldered and hamstrung ………… .


  177. Edward Longshanks says:

    Mack says:
    June 12, 2010 at 3:35 am
    Again nice one Mack.


  178. Mack says:

    Thanks Ed [Mack simpers and blushes ]
    I also fired a second one [at the link from this am ] at some silly twat who was bleating on about sommat or other.

  179. aurelian says:

    Although the rumbled AGW scam still teeters on the verge of political victory, I take comfort from the knowledge that one day the truth will not only be known but also accepted.

    Picture a scene perhaps fifteen years from now. Two grimy, rag-clad figures peer upwards through the unglazed window of their hovel at a contrail in the clear blue sky.
    “One of ours?” asks an educated voice timidly.
    “Who cares?” snarls his rheumy companion. “Shut up and stick another cowpat on the central heating before I belt yer”.

    Nearby, a rusted sign protrudes from a snowdrift and dimly proclaims: “University of East Anglia”.

  180. fenbeagle says:

    I agree, there’s a time and place for everything. But practise your footwork if your thinking of putting a fruit knife against a double handed broad sword. You won’t get two chances.

  181. Mack says:

    aurelian says:
    June 12, 2010 at 3:45 am
    The Two Ronnies would be perfic if you want to do a film version 🙂

  182. Amerloque says:

    Hi Edward Longshanks
    on June 12, 2010 at 3:00 am

    /// real climate is a pious and very pompous blog dedicated to the religion of total BS and ‘were all doomed’ thread.///

    Couldn’t agree more. (grin)

    The link points to a site which “is an excellent analysis of warmists’ logic (and disingenuousness) as evidenced by Michael Mann”.

    Its arguments are useful if one has to attack real climate over a beer, or around the dinner table. (wider grin)

    Now is not the time to let up !


  183. Mack says:

    L’Amerloque “The link points to a site which “is an excellent analysis of warmists’ logic (and disingenuousness) as evidenced by Michael Mann”.

    Imagine being stuck in a lift with Mann? shudder

  184. realityreturns says:

    Hi Guys

    It may be of interest that our old friend Gerald Warner has posted an article on the imminent new climategate whitewash. He seems to think that there will be a run on whitlewash at all the UK DIY outlets. He’s probbly right…..worth a read. It only has comments from me and I expect a troll attack when the moonbotties realise.

  185. aurelian says:

    @realityreturns Jun12, 2010 at 4:31 am
    Thanks for the tip-off, RR.
    I’ve just posted the following …

    “… better stick to ordering a few cans of creosote instead.”
    Perhaps tar and feathers would be more appropriate.
    aurelian 11JUN10@1942BST

  186. Mack says:

    Hi RR …done

  187. Amanda says:

    Fenbeagle: I wouldn’t dare — I’ll leave that to Brian Blessed aka the King!

  188. Amanda says:

    Ed: I know about Corporal Jones (rather a fan of Dad’s Army, actually, especially the episode when they’re on the pier and Frazer gives his ‘scary’ speech), but don’t know Jimmy. And thank you so much for assuming that I’m too young to know him!

  189. Amanda says:

    Aurelian re latest: LOL

  190. Mack says:

    will this pass the censors?
    ‘Okay, the other day Θεός, God, Allah, Ishvara, Bog,Yahweh , Achamán, El Shaddai and some other lucky old sons,with nuttin to do,but roll around heaven all day, looked down on Sarah’s bosom and were pleased. Look ,they said, we must make up a gift pack of these and send them to Jesus and Mohammed who seldom get to see the glories of my creation,what with all their frustrations breaking them down. ‘

  191. Edward Longshanks says:

    Mack says:
    June 12, 2010 at 5:45 am
    Love it Mack, have you been at the Black Bush?

  192. Mack says:

    Not yet Ed:) just the Pinot Noir But watch my latest at the breast story on the DT. I will soon kick dr frank poole in the goolies

  193. Edward Longshanks says:

    aurelian says:
    June 12, 2010 at 3:45 am
    Yes indeed.

    @Amerloque says:
    June 12, 2010 at 3:59 am
    I’ll never let up, no chance this thing requires interring faster than a dead fuzzy wuzzy.

    @Amanda says:
    June 12, 2010 at 5:40 am
    Were all doomed………. DOOMED!!
    It was the roving eyes wot did it you know:>)))))))

    Mainwaring’s interplay with his sergeant – Wilson was pure joy, Wilson the public school boy and decorated 1st WW officer, set against lower middle class Mainwaring and bank manager, Wilson’s senior there too (in the bank), all in the unlikely war setting of a quintessential English village……..brilliant comedy!

    The Germans never understood our Zany comedy, lateral thinking, innovative skills, or our endless good humour -stoicism.
    I’ve talked to many (good German ladies and gents) and they still don’t get it, that’s why they are so determined to tie us in to Europe/and the French want us as a counter balance agin’ the Germans, I like the Germans and the French but not enough to be in bed with them so to speak…… .


  194. Mack says:

    BTW To help our American pals understand the fetish of cod and chips.
    The cod is brought screaming from the sea and lovingly filleted. The fillets are then coast lightly in flour and left to rest WHILE the chips are prepared.
    Chips are called French Fries in the US but only God knows why as the French would not produce such an abomination. No my buddies ,chips are hand cut 6″X 3/4′”chunks of potato, cut from the finest potatoes that you can find,today I used Roosters. These are then soaked briefly to remove excess starch and then blanched in salted water for 2-3 minutes before deep frying in beef dripping [ ok use oil if you are a health-nutter ] The cod fillets [at least 1″ thick, not like bacon rashers ] are then dipped into a batter made from good flour and best ale and fried until golden. On such sweet sacrifice the Gods themselves have to be kept at bay with swords and staves, ITS MINE ,GO ASK AN ARCHANGEL TO MAKE SOME FOR YOU, YOU ALL-POWERFUL PLONKER

  195. Mack says:


  196. rogercuul says:

    Mack- I thought you preferred battered duck, you seem to be doing a good job lately.

  197. Mack says:

    Dear Roger,would that continue it would be a service to mankind,but the DT have cut my posts in such a biased way that I have given up tormenting the feathered one.Until later 🙂
    Some folks say that ducky etc should be ignored,but think about this in the light of 25 comments per page on the DT . The propaganda from him and others gets prominence until their garbage slips off the page, any response has to be very fast as the ‘visitors ‘ to the site are not there to enjoy the banter,just to read swiftly and pass on. The responses get quickly pushed off the page too and this can lead to warmist rubbish getting a free ride.

  198. rogercuul says:

    Mr. Lean has a new blog- It’s better to kill oil-soaked birds than to clean them, say scientists. It doesn’t specifically mention ducks but….

  199. crownarmourer says:

    Anybody wish to get overly PC sensitive and start reporting any imagined slight to the moderators, ratchet up the dial to 11 as spinal Tap said it’s one louder. They wish to be thorough then fine lets give them thorough.

  200. Mack says:

    Maybe they mean to spray Louise Gray with one of those silly olive oil doo-dahs that nancy-chefs use?

  201. crownarmourer says:

    Oiled up babes different, I’ll stick with the jello wrestling.

  202. rastech says:

    Billy it’s this link ttp://

    Slowly adding stuff too it to make less liek an empty basement. *grins*

    Main thing is to have it there to fall back on. If people go to the General forum, and post a hello in the stickied Check in thread, then we can all send PM’s via the username posted. Have it like a reserve post office or something so the ‘old hands’ from JD’s blog can remake communication easily, and treat it like an empty premises to kit out and decorate how you’d like. It doesn’t have to take off or get busy or anything like that, as I can manage the overheads ok at the moment. SMF seems a powerful bit of software and there’s all sorts of things that can be done with it by the look of it.

    I’ll try and get a lot of useful video’s of solutions and things all set up over the coming weeks and months.

    The initial signing up is a bit of a PITA to keep the spammers out, but once in, it should be ok now, and posting is sorted, as well as being able to link media in.

    There’s two trick questions to help combat the spammers, and they are (without the quotes) “I don’t know” and “Banana” – answers are not case sensitive. *grins*

  203. Mack says:

    crownarmourer says:
    June 12, 2010 at 7:52 am
    Saphic or Quebeciose Lesbian?

  204. rastech says:

    Those are the answers rather then the questions even – I’ve been reading up on Forums too much today. lol

  205. ScouseBilly says:

    Rastech, thanks I’ll go check out the basement later.

    Yep, I know the feeling -been a long and heavy week workwise so am destressing , myself.
    Occurred to me that this could be an (inadvertant?) message about chemtrails and global cooling:

  206. crownarmourer says:

    Mack obviously saphic the other ones are scary looking.
    If you ever pay attention real life lesbians do not look like anything like those ladies on the internet why is that?
    Somebody mentioned skanky ho’s you will find lots of them on summer avenue for a fee if that’s your thing, it’s not mine as I do not wish to catch something and bits fall off.

  207. fenbeagle says:

    I got an E mail notification for a reply from mr Duckham. But it does’nt seem to be on the DT forum……does that mean he got censored? Or is it a technical glitch….. How am I supposed to disagree with him? By E mail.

  208. Mack says:

    crownarmourer “I do not wish to catch something and bits fall off.” Bangkok Ladyboys? Or Bugis Street? I saw some bar-room brawls where lots of bits fell off the ladees in the scrum, Walt will tell you all of the fun in Subic way back when he gets back.

  209. Edward Longshanks says:

    Scud1 said:-
    On DT JD blog,

    “Yeah. Agree James. This man is a delusional, psychotic, fucktard…who’ll have this country destroyed whatever the fucking reason.
    Fuck the DT and all the ‘Common Purpose’ treacherous fucks…look it up people. We’re being sold down the river.

    (Fucking moderated by a fucking fucktard fuck)

    Good bye ”

    Way to go!………….. Scud1!


  210. Edward Longshanks says:

    fenbeagle says:
    June 12, 2010 at 8:59 am
    Drop in a note at the local mosque.

  211. Morning all,

    You’re still here! Wonderful.

    Couple of points:

    @Rastech on June 12, 2010 at 12:09 am

    I removed that link as per your request (gosh—I’m complicit in censorship!!!) But you, Edward, Scouse and Mack got it right in the end: you can’t go posting those sort of links around unless you have something far more substantive than that. And if you do have something more, take it to the police. It just goes to reinforce my earlier point: you’re all doing a smashing job of creating and keeping the ground rules yourselves.

    Pointman. I know you’ve all been asking about him lately. I can’t divulge too much (he has spoken to me privately) but suffice to say you won’t be seeing Pointy around here for the forseeable future. He’ll explain all to you as and when he sees fit, and my admiration for him remains undiminished. He really is a top bloke.

    Paypal. So many of you have mentioned it now that I feel compelled to say a couple of words. Gees, you know how to flatter a bloke! I’m turning bright red as I speak.

    I never got into this to make money. This blog began life well before the DT imbroglio (Telegate???) broke, as a small-scale affair to expound and discuss the philosophy of Libertarianism. I was (and remain) more than happy to maintain a forum here for AGW and the JD crew, although I can already see how keeping it for that purpose will eat into my time.

    But I’m a bit worried. Wouldn’t including a DONATE button give the impression of compromising the ideals of this blog? The thought of becoming a kind of cyber-mendicant, rattling an electronic cup at casual passers-by bothers me a wee bit.

    Then again, take a close look at the bottom of JD’s own home page.

    If we go down that road, then a couple of things follow. You’ll all be invited to try and bring traffic to the site; I’ll split the site up, keeping my Libertarian and private stuff (where you’ll all still be welcome BTW) hived away in a separate section, leaving this part clear for AGW; and I’ll create a new thread every couple of days, much like JD. It would be better, though, if JD got his act together himself or else put a rocket up whoever at the Tele is behind this fiasco. What’s the point of being a god emperor if you can’t hurl the occasional thunderbolt?

    Anyway, I’d appreciate your feedback. I’ll make a decision in the next few days and let you all know.

    Many thanks to you all


  212. Amanda says:


    Thanks for that update. Echoing your comments about Pointman, in the swell-chap department you’re not too shabby yourself.

    My feeling is: go ahead and put the Donate button in. Nobody HAS to donate just because it’s there. And what it brings in may not be very much (who knows?). A new light bulb here (incandescent of course), an extra gallon of petrol there. But you’re giving something to people, and in my experience, people that are receiving a benefit often like to give back. If you have a Donate facility, you make it easy for them to act on their natural impulses, their natural warm-and-fuzzy feelings of goodwill. We all know that running a website takes more time, energy, and consideration than simply posting on somebody else’s blog. Why shouldn’t you get, in addition to the plaudits, a gratuity here and there? As my dad always says, ‘never mind the applause, just throw money’.

    Cheers, A.

  213. Amanda says:

    Oh, and further thought: if Delingpole, a professional writer and blogger, can put a Donate button on his website without blushing — as you rightly point out — for the life of me I can’t see why you should think twice.

  214. rastech says:

    Oz if it starts getting a bit onerus and expensive, there’s always the hosted advertising route? If your blog is getting enough traffic, it might well generate enough.

    I may have to go the same way myself at some point, if database costs for the Forum go too high (may take a long time to get there though, so no panic). I can manage at least one more database upgrade (going the MySQL route was a lifesaver, as the annual fees work out to be less than 2 months of MS SQL).

    It has impacted features of the forum though, as it would be nice to have things like clickable text formatting for posting directly available, for example, but needs must.

    If it ever gets to the point that a revenue stream comes in from advertising, then the way to go will be running a dedicated webserver from home which should plummet costs dramatically at that point (and secondhand servers seem likely to be around in bulk and as cheap as chips if things carry on economically as they are – I’ll be looking for a few to tuck away in a cupboard in the not too distant future). Plus secondhand servers tend to come with all the necessary software licenses as well, which can save a bomb.

    It’s very nice not to have ads (I like having a ‘clean’ site as it’s a rarity these days), but a month or two of traffic like this, and you should be able to get something worked out?

    I’m a bit tempted to look at USA hosted websites and databases tbh, as there’s packages out there pretty cheap that include no bandwidth limits and unlimited database sizes – saw one earlier that looked ok for $9.95 a month.

    The real pain is indeed the time involved, and personally I’m far happier with the advantages of a dedicated Forum setup, as a bunch of people can be Mods and it’s fun then as most stuff just runs itself with people able to add topics and contribute to topics, all by themselves.

    Also, with blogs it’s hard to keep the riff-raff out (heck who am I kidding? I’M riff-raff!), and forums it’s not difficult to clean them up at all. *grins*

  215. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    G’day Oz,

    I agree with Amanda.

    You told us before that, at present, this site is only costing you “time”.

    Well ol’ son, in this day and age, time IS money, particularly if you are a self-employed freelance professional. Any amount of time ANY of us spends hunched over a keyboard is time that our backs are turned to family, friends, clients, whomever….

    The technical skills of Rastech, Orkneylad or yourself in establishing your sites is something NOT taken for granted by numpties like me. To be able to “chat” to like-minded folks from around the world is an absolute gift – for which I thank you all.

    While you aren’t inclined to be “rattling an electronic cup” at people, these things are simply a matter of perspective. From my point of view, I’d hate to think that something you have freely made available to me, would cost you time (= money) that could have been spent productively for yourself and your family.

    That little yellow button on JD’s site has no apologetic attachments.

    Don’t forget Oz, you haven’t asked – it is we who have offered. Just give us the details.

    Warm regards to Mrs Oz and the kiddies.

  216. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Hey folks,

    How’s this from the Sydney DT?

    PM Rudd can defer his Emissions Trading Scheme till the “cows come home”, with Labor Apparatchiks in State Govts also jockeying for Green preferences in our “preferential” system of voting, Green policies will prevail in every conceivable way across the board.

    Also this from Tasmania. The wind turbines they refer to are peculiar vertical models to be mounted on the roof of buildings in our waterfront city-centre.

    Has anyone else heard of roof-top turbines elsewhere?

  217. Edward Longshanks says:

    G’day all Aussies, Oz, Blackswan in particular,

    Oz, hope the young un is bouncing…mmm – maybe a bit young for that, still at the crying mewling stage – just moved on from that me sen;>) hope she is doing fine! Hope Mrs. Oz is coping and you are helping!


    Coal fired power stations in NSW, I firmly believe that power is essential for any country and if you have coal in the ground, that’s God’s gift, laid down millions of years ago for the purpose of providing heat and warmth and power for man.
    The technology is tried and trusted and more importantly tested and not found wanting…….it’s a crime not to use it.

    Office roof top turbines? We have some in UK schools -who have installed large turbines and some supermarkets are starting to install them and (in the UK) all government offices have to be ‘carbon free’ by whatever date (inward groan) but it’s all bollocks, the cost efficiencies are way over estimated and the turbines will most definitely not last as long as what it says on the packet – guaranteed!

    Wind turbines are a useless fad, it would provide jobs for shipyard workers and it is the height of stupidity to import turbines from China (when you have resources and workforce to hand as it were) but wind is not an answer to a non existent problem (that of CAGW), the stats just do not add up anyway- RR is the man to ask about the stats. What I have gleaned from Walt is that if the wind blows strongly it is not necessarily a good thing for turbines, they have a max’ wind speed efficiency capacity and that is fairly low, the thing is they are so damn inefficient……………… and the wind doesn’t blow when you maybe really require it to, we constantly hear that this or that wind farm will ‘provide’ energy for ‘X’ amount of homes, which is pure bollocks, at best think of a number and divide it by 10, so for 80 thou’ homes read maybe 8 thou’- at best or maximum efficiency – and if you remove the subsidies, then the equation is a non starter.
    I call ’em chocolate teapots and think that they are about as useful.

    God preserve us from politicians who shout “we’re all doomed – we’ve got to go green and this is the way to do it!”
    NO, NO AND NO on all counts!
    As you are well aware Blackswan BTW I trust you and Mrs Blackswan + cygnets are well! ….we have a brand of politicians , who (in the western world) all think along the same lines but instead of concentrating on something they can change, NO they clamour and hark on about nebulous threats…….. and then pie in the sky solutions……what is wrong with ’em?

    In Britain we have a breed of nerds who have never held down a real job (been to an ‘elite’ Uni’ where they are all of the same ilk, study history – which is wasted on them, politics – what a waste of time and Economics or BS) , never had any inkling of science still less any idea of engineering, who listen to the sweet siren calls of vested interest parties – who have no one’s interests at heart other than their own and their companies aggrandizement and these nerds have become politicians…Lord help me.

    I have come to the opinion that, the world does not need, University ‘experts’, Economists and last and least, gullible stupid tw*ts, we call politicians- particularly Socialist politicians(which they all seem to be) because all they do is spend money wastefully and give it to people who are not deserving of taxpayers’ largesse.
    (Audible sigh!)

    End rant.

    Kindest regards, Ed.

    I have to laugh about a donation button for JDs blog (not much chance), and for you OZ?……I’m from Yorkshire – born and bred, our parsimony is legend;>)
    But for a good lad – one can change one’s ways, I am smiling now…….but not making any promises sport!………Depends on how we do in the cricket, we have some games against your lot coming up…………I am grateful for being allowed on your lawn tho’ OZ.

    fawning regards, Ed;>))))))))))))))))))))))

  218. i_was_ferret says:

    Hi all

    You all most probably know that HMG asked for comments on their Energy & Climate Changes Policies at (and that they didn’t publicise the fact until a few days before the closing date!) Well the home page says “Many thanks to the thousands of you who have contributed by posting comments…”

    As far as I can see there are only 940 comments… I wonder whether they are using to same “fudge factor” as UEA to bump up the numbers 🙂

    I had a quick scan through them and it looks like about 15% of the comments were along the line of “AGW scam”, “CO2 is natural”, “look at the data”, “listen to the scientists”, “there’s not consensus” etc. Many of the others seemed to be self-serving comments by people on the gravy train!

    It seems they don’t want the public to read the comments either, as the link to the comments has been removed from the home page! I have a copy of all 940 comments for reference.


  219. Mack says:

    Mornin all.
    Blackswan,the DIY stores in the UK stopped selling rooftop wind toys due to lack of performance and some reports of structural damage.I will find more detail later and post links.Wind is useful for pumping water when you need to do this off grid.Solar pumps do the job better.

  220. Mack says:

    On the subject of costs related to websites, I had a site with great software for $70 per year, it was the bloody time it took to keep it up that was the problem.Also getting folks to start their own threads and topics instead of hanging about waiting for me to do the work so I closed down.

  221. Amerloque says:

    The DT this morning reports the Queen’s Birthday Honours list …

    CBE to

    Peter George Betts. Director of International Climate Change, Department for Energy and Climate Change. (London, SW4)


    MBE to

    Miss Kirsty Schneeberger. Co-ordinator, UK Youth Climate Coalition. For services to Environmental Conservation. (Abbotts Ann, Hampshire)

    Only searched for “climate”, then for “environ”. There might be others … (sigh)

    Amerloque 20100611 12h50 Paris time (CET)

  222. Old Toad says:

    Best wishes to Oxboy, Mrs Ozboy and little Ozgirl. This site provides a much needed outlet for those JD bloggers who are fed up with the DT moderators, and I wish it every success. However as there are only so many hours in the day to read Eureferendum, What’s up, Climate Audit, Bishop Hill, Jo Nova et al ,whilst keeping up with Monbiot’s Ad Hom attacks in the Grauniad and the associated postings and attendant replies.
    James doubtless finds it unsatisfactory that he is far away the most successful blogger on a paper which employs, inter alia, Mary Riddell, Geoffrey Lean and George Pitcher (AKA the ‘comedy vicar’) who unless I’m mistaken is the notorious Duckham’s BROTHER. Thus James’s views are probably dissimilar to those of the people who control editorial policy.
    The DT blog is the most widely read of it’s kind, and while James, Lord Tebbit and Gerald Warner are there, it deserves all our support.
    I trust that, while you express your views fully here, as you did in the ‘good old days’ of the JD blog, you will occasionally have your say over there, as your informed input and continued support is vital, if the 1000’s of ‘lurkers’ who have yet to make up their minds on AGW, are to get the truth.

  223. manonthemoor says:

    Good evening ALL

    Its 4.51 pm in UK This is one I prepared earlier, — No internet for 36 hours — Now running courtesy of next door neighbour. Looked at DISQUS what a pain trying to catch up – did not even bother to log in!

    Not caught up her yet though

    Having been denied access to the internet the last couple of days, courtesy my ISP, I have had an opportunity to reflect on DISQUS

    I offer here my conclusions below:-

    DISQUS is like a meal with very little meat and a lot of cold watery gravy.

    DISQUS is served on a conveyor belt where others have tried the choice bits and those who follow are left the scraps.

    Whereas in Ozland. at the Captains table the growing TEAM and visitors are served a ‘Cordon Bleu’ meal, by Ladies from Quebec, every bit worthy of our Master.

    The menu is varied and is often tuned to the diners choice, but sheep is a speciality.

    There is healthy welcome and discussion amongst the diners, with occasional music and videos, not to mention the occasional joke or prank.

    Unfortunately dancing is not allowed, since our next door duck house neighbour complained about the noise of the Morris Dancing.

    Ozland even has a green policy where the scraps are sent back to DISQUS for their use.

    Hence the DISQUS will always be a pigs breakfast!!!

    Happiness and fulfilment is OZLAND

    Ps I always wanted to be an advertising exec.

    manonthemoor 12 Jun 8:34

  224. manonthemoor says:

    This piece I prepared at 9:00 am UK this morning

    Do not want to let it go to waste


    On Topic and Oil Spills

    I draw a parallel between Climategate and the Oil Spills on the basis of NEVER WASTE A GOOD DISASTER.

    I forecast early on in these blogs that the oil spill could be a game changing event.

    I believe I have been proven right in spades for the following reasons.

    My conclusions are also based on the excellent interview between Alex Jones and James yesterday

    1/ The supporters of Climategate were engaged in a running battle with AGW and despite almost no resources except a few dedicated team they were winning the argument .OilGate is an attempt by AGW to seize the initiative.

    2/ The American Cap and Trade was dead in the water but this has given Obama the opportunity to challenge big oil, big time

    3/ Obama has critical elections due in November, he has already with this started his election campaign to gain the hearts and minds of the people.

    4/ BP has a split personality between the green media machine and the need to fix the leak. It would seem that they have failed on both counts

    5/ The leak and the technical problems are unprecedented, there was a rush for oil at the lowest cost. The failure was in foresight and regulation/control in just the same way as the financial crisis hit and developed.. Put simply the law of unplanned consequences.

    6/ The financial consequences will be manifold.
    a/ The cost of recovery of the well control
    b/ The cost of the environmental clean up
    c/ The cost of the compensation to business and personnel
    but added to this are
    d/ The loss in BP share value and dividend
    e/ The loss in PR in America by activists at the pumps
    f/ The impact on BP as a global company.

    7/ It is the last item 6f/ which I now regard as the most significant and damaging?
    Is the AGW movement trying to smash/sink BP?
    Is the NWO/Bilderburg involved having failed to bring down the world finance so far?
    Is the oil spill a convenient diversion to the problems of Iran and the Gaza strip and other political hotspots?

    One thing is for sure the AGW and Obama are milking this crisis to the max and in both cases the desperation is akin to the desperation shown by one G Brown and his government to hold on to power.

    Where will this madness stop before we all have a third world economy.

    One saving grace however is we use not much oil on electricity generation, but the AGW have that covered with supply by windmills !!!!

  225. NoIdea says:

    @izen on June 9, 2010 at 8:52 am

    I had already noted from looking at the Vostok ice core graphs that our present interglacial had not reached temperatures seen in previous warm periods.
    Your detailed and excellent post attempts to assuage the misdeeds of hacks, they owe you.
    I found myself in full agreement with everything you said. I even managed to enjoy your statement “That may indicate that climate sensitivity to CO2 (or any energy imbalance) is greater than we had previously estimated.” As it is both fair and truthful, bravo I say.
    Your last two paragraphs are superbly, may I say, skeptical -grin-
    Sorry for the delay, I have had so much reading to do at David’s links, all most interesting.

    David on June 9, 2010 at 6:15 am
    Strange that I always love the sites that you and izen direct me to.
    All the stuff is interesting.
    I have kind of forgotten what my original posts point was, and as you say it’s a pain to retrieve. I think you covered it all nicely though. The graph you found is much better than the crappy little thing I was forced to use. I especially like the inclusion of the estimate of uncertainty.
    I had to start grabbing some statements. There are so many good ones.
    “The Carboniferous Period and the Ordovician Period were the only geological periods during the Paleozoic Era when global temperatures were as low as they are today. To the consternation of global warming proponents, the Late Ordovician Period was also an Ice Age while at the same time CO2 concentrations then were nearly 12 times higher than today– 4400 ppm. According to greenhouse theory, Earth should have been exceedingly hot. Instead, global temperatures were no warmer than today. Clearly, other factors besides atmospheric carbon influence earth temperatures and global warming.”
    Oo and this one!
    “What will our climate be like in the future? That is the question scientists are asking and seeking answers to currently. The causes of “global warming” and climate change are today being popularly described in terms of human activities. However, climate change is something that happens constantly on its own. If humans are in fact altering Earth’s climate with our cars, electrical powerplants, and factories these changes must be larger than the natural climate variability in order to be measurable. So far the signal of a discernible human contribution to global climate change has not emerged from this natural variability or background noise.”
    They where both on the link, many thanks for that.

    This is from
    “We are actually in an ice age climate today. However for the last 10,000 years or so we have enjoyed a warm but temporary interglacial vacation. We know from geological records like ocean sediments and ice cores from permanent glaciers that for at least the last 750,000 years interglacial periods happen at 100,000 year intervals, lasting about 15,000 to 20,000 years before returning to an icehouse climate. We are currently about 18,000 years into Earth’s present interglacial cycle. These cycles have been occurring for at least the last 2-4 million years, although the Earth has been cooling gradually for the last 30 million years.”
    I loved the bit about Callender and his early cherry picking I found at
    “Callendar claimed humans had increased CO2 concentrations in the atmosphere by burning fossil fuels, and had thereby changed the atmosphere from 274 ppmv to 325 ppmv by 1935– resulting in a 18.3 percent increase which had caused the global surface temperature to rise 0.33 deg. C (5). However, CO2 data available at the time showed concentrations ranged between 250 ppm and 550 ppm (Figure 4). Callendar has been accused of cherry-picking data from a sampling of 19th century averages, using 26 that supported his ideas, but rejecting 16 that were higher than his assumed low global average, and 2 that were lower (6).”
    Shame about the pay walls, The Nature piece was just getting interesting.
    I noticed this on a link from there “Forest fires are growing in size and frequency across the tropics. Continually eroding fragmented forest edges, they are unintended ecological disturbances that transcend deforestation to degrade vast regions of standing forest, diminishing ecosystem services and the economic potential of these natural resources. Affecting the health of millions, net forest fire emissions may have released carbon equivalent to 41% of worldwide fossil fuel use in 1997–98.”

    From the excellent pnas full pdf link you provide I have found lots of things I need to research further, I note the statement
    “Moreover, our estimate of highly elevated pCO2 just after the extinction event is based on fern SI, whereas the background pCO2 is based on Ginkgo, a less than ideal situation created by sample availability. Therefore this result must be taken as provisional.”
    “Lewis said: “It’s good news for now but the effect won’t last forever. The trees can’t keep on getting bigger and bigger.”” I wonder why he has never heard of Mega fauna (Ginkgo
    Adiantoides for example)

    I wonder if Mann was aware that it is not just temperature that causes tree ring growth

    Well it appears I am rambling, thank you again for all the links you provide that reinforce my view of reality. I feel much saner now.
    How are you and Joe doing?

  226. aurelian says:

    @Old Toad, June 13, 2010 at 1:21 am
    Although I still read the articles in my favourite Telegraph blogs (Mr Warner, Lord T, JD, Douglas Murray), the Disqus system deters me from reading the majority of the comments, although I do still post the occasional remark.

    I do not think that the Telegraph will miss me, since one warm body is as good as another where site stats are concerned. I doubt the Telegraph is interested in the substance of the comments posted by visitors, beyond wishing them to be safe to show.

    However, your point about helping to inform lurkers who have yet to make up their minds is an important one. So I will suppress my impulse to enact a huffy boycott, and will instead continue to post the occasional uninformed opinion.

  227. i_was_ferret says:

    aurelian\old toad

    My sentiments exactly. The comments are painful to go through!

  228. NoIdea says:

    Nosing around following links I came to
    I liked all this; it seems consistent with my reality.
    The conclusion sums it up nicely.
    “Carbon dioxide emitted by human activity cannot be the cause of climate change as it is incapable physically of causing a significant anomaly of the atmospheric temperature.
    Any assertion—involving the physics of radiative heat transfer—that carbon dioxide is a causative agent of climate change, is a deliberate pseudoscientific misrepresentation.”
    Can any one tell me if there are any issues with this that I have not spotted?

  229. Mack says:

    aurelian\old toad\i_was_ferret

    I have posted a few comments of a practical nature on the blogs and will continue to do so unless the blogs become too boring and painful. The software is rubbish,of that there seems to be complete agreement [except with those at the DT !]. I think Ozboy has given us a nice home and for that we are lucky. How come the DT made such an arse of things ? most of us seem to have some experience in running and setting up forums and sites and have managed without all the fuss as experienced by the DT

  230. scud1 says:

    Thought I might pen a little work of fiction tied in with real events for a possible scenario of what may have happened at the DT and the awful result that we have thereof…

    What’s it been now…a couple of weeks since JD (and all the other blogs) were taken off line for a supposed ‘upgrade’?
    It seems quite a coincidence that this ‘upgrade’ occurred very shortly after our resident trolls stooped to a new low, apparently hacking into the system to assume the identities of several regular contributors.
    Previous to this event I cannot recall any mention that things were about to change. Indeed Mr. Delingpole himself informed us only the day after that the DT would be working to sort things out as clearly things could not continue as they were.
    Way prior to this however it was clear that things were already beginning to deteriorate.
    Various people who disagreed with James’s sentiments would sometime appear, make their views…which, for all things told, tended to make the blog even more interesting. But then came along an entirely different breed. True, thoroughbred trolls, whose purpose was obvious and their persistence utterly bewildering.
    They seemed also to possess an uncanny ability to predict when JD was about to post something new. Almost without fail, they would be there within 15 minutes, hurling churlish, personal abuse at the author, uncanny because I think I’m right in saying that James didn’t / doesn’t appear to choose any particular time of day to spark a new debate. I don’t believe that Monbiot’s ridiculous little site monitors the whole ‘denier community’ live to send out real time alerts to his army of pinheads and neither do I believe that our own disruptive little shits spent 24 hours of every day hunched over a crusty keyboard constantly hitting the ‘refresh’ button.
    ‘Epic log’ (as our missing friend Walt liked to call him) yeah, it’s been here, hasn’t it. Bragging that it had been the only troll and gloating about some sort of ‘victory’…Just toss-stain bluster? I’m not sure. Certainly it had many different guises and just leaves me wondering, why go to all the bother, over such a prolonged period of time, inviting personal abuse? If you’re just an individual, and simply in disagreement with the topic in hand this is bordering on the insane and although I’d like to think that it should be straight jacketed and locked up in Broadmoor I feel that it was anything but.

    Ok so back to the paper itself.
    I haven’t bought a copy of the DT since I realised that they, like virtually every other mainstream rag were not going to cover the CRU story and subsequent exposures of fraud etc with anything like the headline grabbing, chart topping, MPs expenses crushing scoop of the bloody millennium that it clearly was. As we all know, our entire futures are at stake over this and they decided that it was barely worth a mention.
    Sure, Chris Booker had and still has some choice words but that’s only the Sunday edition, towards the back…dunno what the circulation is of the ST but I’d hazard that it’s not that big, plus (apart from CB) it’s all a bit, err hum. Girly.
    Anyway, Geoff Lean, Lulu and a load of other nonsensical ecoloons whose names I can’t remember, far outstrip CB in terms of page space and therefore one has to assume that the DT is essentially as pro plant food abatement as that bum wipe The Guardian and corrupt BBC.

    I guess many of you chaps knew of Mr. JD’s work previous to this whole grisly pile of dung being laid bare but I’m ashamed to say that I hadn’t until of course I stumbled upon his blog whilst furiously soaking up all the delicious info on the subject that had, for so long, raised my blood pressure to bursting point.
    Was he a cause celeb before all this? Not sure, but he is now. Well certainly he is to anyone who takes an interest in AGW either pro or against; he’s even been on the beeb for cripes sake (ok, only for a malicious setup with Moonbat, but still.) And of course his blog is now world famous, credited with many millions of hits with the subject matter and ever increasing number of comments and commenter’s virtually all against this sick agenda that the DT as an organisation apparently wishes to otherwise promote.
    Guessing again, because I haven’t tried to retrieve any posts from JD prior to the leaked emails but I’d imagine that since there was very little real meat to go on…just informative but mostly independent sceptical sites coupled with a deeply held suspicion amongst a minority that the whole thing was being fabricated in order to be used against us that the DT wouldn’t have given a jot what James’s view on the subject was if he wrote about it or not.

    So, we’re back in those dark days as we approach the Copenhagen summit. The world is supposedly on tenterhooks and ‘hopeful’ that an international deal will be struck to save the polar bear and tax / control the developed world out of existence.
    But suddenly there’s a rumour being bounced about the web ‘The Airvent’ has some astonishing information. It’s verified as true and JD pens a belter suggesting everyone who owns shares in anything ‘green’ to ditch them pronto.

    Secretly, the DT is utterly horrified. It’s obliged to run a tiny column on the front page but lends it no air of importance.
    A few more days pass and those of us who were sick to the back teeth of the ludicrous scare stories and looming prospect of having to shell out ever more hard earned to a bunch of crooks are feeling as if a great weight has been lifted from our shoulders, we’re happy and beginning to openly take the piss out of the doomsters.
    The ever vigilant Delingpole feels this too and picks up on a comment left over at Bishop Hill…”Climategate” and repeats it in a swift one two. It’s a devastating combination. A catchphrase that’ll likely go down in history because it’s been reported from within the walls of the mighty Telegraph. It’s read all over the world, the term instantly goes ‘viral’ and the mighty Telegraph is left thinking…’Shit, f*****g, bollocks what the hell do we do now?’

    Later, in a Common Purpose infiltrated back boardroom at Canary Wharf…
    ‘Could fire him’.
    ‘No that’d be way too obvious, besides, the man’s an author in his own right. He’ll have publishing contacts. Could be big trouble.’
    ‘Whack ‘im then.’
    ‘Hmm…Nah, think we’ll just have to run with it for a while. Bump ‘im from the blogs at this stage and there’s going to be repercussions. Don’t worry. This’ll blow over in a couple of weeks, people will soon lose interest. Right, what we running for the headline? Oh yes!…Nice montage of a smoke stack and some cracked up dirt. Yer done good Jim.’

    Meanwhile, JDs blog is gathering the momentum of a coal laden freight train. It’s attracting mathematicians, physicists, geologists, power station experts, lawyers, their combined knowledge, humour and willingness to share information against the tyranny of the AGW regime is fast turning it into THE hub of the entire blogosphere. The comments and links continue to reach out ever further. Exposing scam after scam. JD himself can hardly keep up.

    ‘I got an idea.’
    ‘What’s that then Ted?’
    ‘Well I’ve noticed that whenever some hippy twat pitches his oar in trying to sound like he knows a thing or two all the others come back to him, usually flattening ‘im in the process but it don’t half take up a lot of their time. Think they enjoy it, ‘cause they’re usually seen off…trolls they call ‘em.’
    ‘Yeah. Well, if we could get one or two in there that can’t be sent packing that should bugger ‘em up good and proper. They’ll be spending the whole time flinging mud at each other instead of telling the whole bloody world what’s up.’
    ‘Cheers Jim…I thought so. You know the bastards even link to that poor old sod Geoff Lean. Quite frankly I’m surprised the doddery git hasn’t topped himself yet, vicious bastards they are. Like a pack of hyenas round a rotting carcass. Think it’s about time we gave ‘em a taste of their own medicine.’
    ‘Got anyone in mind?’
    ‘As a matter of fact I ‘ave. My son in law, he’d be bloody perfect. Just dropped out of his waster psychology course, likes to go on May day bust ups, Greenpeace stunts that type of thing. Right mouthy pimply little Nazi he is and I tell you what; he wouldn’t mind 5 quid an hour either.’
    ‘Maybe we could pay him by the post…give him an incentive.’
    ‘Nice thinking Jim…what d’yer reckon, 20p a shot? We’d be able to alert ‘im every time Delingpole scribbles some new tripe, give ‘im an email address, in fact as many as he wants. Pointers even on what to say.’
    ‘Yeah…yeah I’m liking this, maybe he could sign up some of his mates as well. We could completely swamp it.’
    ‘Nah Jim.’
    ‘He ain’t got any mates. I hate him, even me own daughter hates him.’
    ‘What she marry ‘im for then?’
    ‘Got drunk one night on some climate camp bollocks in Hyde Park. The dirty daft cow.’
    ‘Exactly. Still, suppose it won’t harm to ask.’

    And low, it came to be…The era of the pesky trolls is born.
    For a short time the DT are pleased with their dastardly plan. Snide, personal insults are hurled at the regular community and indeed much precious time is spent countering, the threads get longer and load slower as a consequence, the whole atmosphere changes.
    The ‘cage’ is invented by Pointman, the A10 and its GAU8 30mill is used frequently by the gang, its fun but the trolls are beginning to act in a somewhat sinister fashion. They attempt to sow confusion and worry, proclaiming themselves to have been banned and moderated, they come back under different guises (which are rumbled within two posts) they attempt to cloak themselves under similar names to legitimate posters, childish anagrams are made up.
    But, though freakishly persistent and annoying they are generally easy targets, picked off at will by a combination of superior intellects and starvation. The information still flows relatively unhindered in a clear and concise fashion. JD continues to ‘tip his hat’ to some of his commenter’s who’ve dug out further scandals for a massive following throughout the world.

    Back at the Daily Telegraph boardroom…

    ‘Sodding ‘ell Jim. It’s not working is it. Thought it was going to but nah. We’ll be paying our little bastards till the end of time and I’m not so sure that they’ll be able to stand much more of it. Jennifer’s told Grant to sling ‘is hook.’
    ‘Time for plan B then Ted?’
    ‘I think so Jim. As said, we’ll try and do it subtle like. Get the techies to start working on the system. Course, it’ll effect ‘em all but I really couldn’t give a monkeys. We got to disband this motley crew once and for all.’

    ‘You are posting to quickly slow down.’ Scud1 blinks at the screen. ‘What? I’ve only just hauled my sorry arse out of bed!’ And so begins the slow process of ‘fixing’ something that wasn’t broke. Posts go missing. Scud1 posts something about ‘Common Purpose’ Scousebilly and Realityreturns respond. All of which are deleted within an hour. This had at no time happened before no matter what was published. I know this because troll Izen had previously attempted to hoodwink the readership into believing that the site was ‘moderated’ by either JD himself or some obviously ‘onside’ spod working behind closed doors. I decided that I’d test him out and posted something along the lines of and in full technicolour…’F**k off. This won’t be f*****g moderated and it’s got loads of f*****g swearing in it.’ And sure enough, it remained put.
    And so it continued. Complaints were beginning to be lodged as everybody experienced a similar decline in service.

    I have no idea how these things work (better at shaping and putting bits of wood together) but obviously one way or another it is possible. So, winging it, if I were the DT and wanted rid of a once perfectly fine system I’d need one final act of creepiness to justify it being ‘pulled’…Here’s Jim and Ted again:

    ‘Right Jim, we got everything in place?’
    ‘Yeah Ted. Email addresses have gone out to Grant.’
    ‘He he…cool. Now, how we doing with the replacement? Is it the utter shite that we wanted?’
    ‘Couldn’t get any shittier Ted. The blokes have done a sterling job. They’re going to have to scroll up and down like a whore with her draws, its only going to display twenty five at a time. Full of security holes…Ha haar. I could be Prince Charles one day and Mohammed Ali the next, a right scrambled egg it is.’
    ‘Brilliant. And it looks good? Remember, at first sight I want it to look all shiny and lovely…bells and whistles all over it.’
    ‘Oh yeah Ted. Sgonna look the business. Got recommend, reply, sort by stuff. It’s going to look like a shiny new beamer with the full package. Ha haar…though of course it aint got an engine and we’ll have an eye up each exhaust pipe pulling stuff that we don’t like.’
    ‘Nice one Jim. Best of all no one can pin this on us. Farmed out innit. Those discuss people happy with the pay off for making a dog’s dinner?’

    Meanwhile. Back at the centre of the parallel universe the trolls are as active as ever with their usual snide, personal unpleasantness then something curious happens. Catweazle (possibly one of the less prolific but nonetheless a most excellent and informed member of the contributors) posts a short response to JD’s article.
    It doesn’t sound like him, in fact it sounds an awful lot like Gout, Log or any other of their multitude of incarnations.
    The name is checked and double checked to see if they were up to their old trick of leaving out a letter or swapping one or two around. No, it is apparently the real Cat.
    Suspicions are immediately raised and then confirmed by numerous other regulars having their usernames hijacked and corresponding scripts perverted. Its creepy as hell and we all agree that something must now be done to rid the site of these frauds who many pointed out were in fact in breach of the law itself.
    JD posts another article the following day. He expresses his concern at the worry this is causing and promises that the DT are looking into the situation. We are relieved and not surprised when all the Telegraph blogs are wiped from our screens.

    As Mack steadily munches through half his desk in boredom, waiting for the discussion and information to return, CP members Jim and Ted are busy preparing for the launch of the new comments column…

    ‘They bought it didn’t they Jim.’
    ‘I’ll say Ted…hook line and sinker. Not surprising though. That psycho ex brother in law of yours, bloody hell, what a piece of work!’
    ‘I’ll say Jim. Wouldn’t surprise me one bit if the little shits behind bars before the years out. How long you going to give it before we’re on line again?’
    ‘Err…well, the techies reckon something like three days‘d look about right.’
    ‘Nice…Hmm, yeah, now that we’ve hopefully sorted out the responses, what you reckon about leaning on Delingpole a bit too? Think he’d take a bung?’
    ‘I’d give it some time Ted. See what happens to his hit rate. I’m pretty confident that this’ll have the desired effect, as you know, a blog without comments or at least one where it’ll be impossible for anyone to make head or tale of it is as good as an empty space.’

    Mack finishes off his desk…we’re back online.
    Yaosxx is the first to notice and figures out the new log in procedure where he immediately identifies a gaping hole in the security of the system and says so in the very first post…and the rest is very recent history.


    Dunno…Just a story. But we are all aware of the deceit, the dishonour, the outrageous lies that come with virtually everything that touches the subject of AGW that I feel that it may contain more truth than fiction.
    It is certainly the modus operandi of Common Purpose and I’m more than certain that these people operate within the walls of the Daily Telegraph.

    Anyway, hope I’ve not bored you rigid and hopefully I’m completely wrong. James Delingpole will not be ‘leant on’ the DT takes our concerns seriously and restores the comments section to at least something close to its former glory.
    Fingers crossed. Have a good weekend fellas.


    Oh yeah. One more thing. I came home pissed from the pub last night feeling a bit belligerent about stuff (1664 and Stella…it does that to me).
    The misses had left the computer on so I went and made a comment full of f*****g swear words and a ref’ to common purpose. Woke up this morning feeling jolly rough and I thought ‘Oh no…I didn’t did I?’
    Thought I’d better check and oh dear I had, as it was still there 10 hours later!
    Think they ought to fire their mods…they’re utter crap!

  231. Amerloque says:

    Hi Scud !

    Well done ! (grin)

    ///It seems quite a coincidence that this ‘upgrade’ occurred very shortly after our resident trolls stooped to a new low, apparently hacking into the system to assume the identities of several regular contributors.///

    … which might be tied to the election ?


    Amerloque 20100612 19h42 Paris time (CET)

  232. manonthemoor says:

    scud1 says:
    June 13, 2010 at 3:16 am

    You started your post ‘with a little bit of fiction’

    To me the whole description seems entirely plausible but remember not only the DT may not be happy but the whole AGW band waggon , greens, polly’s, financiers and the MSM in general.

    I made a post very early on in the previous thread recognising the options available to James.

    James has the public face at present of Climategate, and continues to post blogs, but we all recognise things are no longer the same. I remember many excellent posts from people who no longer contribute. Reality Returns had his list, they are still out there and they would be welcome here, but ensuring we also support ozboy

    @ ozboy — I noted your comment about initiating threads.
    Can I suggest you offer members o the team the opportunity to contribute ‘starters’

    People like Pointman, RR, Rastech and Walt come to mind not forgetting the ladies.
    This would take some pressure off you, possibly allowing you to function as editor.

    Your personality will be marked on this site just as James affected the DT blogs.

    Everything seems fine at present, but you need to shout if you get overloaded.

    I noticed a lot of ‘adverts’ for your site on the DT/JD blog long may that continue, but as I have said previously there are going to be some very upset important and powerful people who would see us fail. It may be a significant benefitthet you are in Ozland.

  233. Mack says:

    Love it Scud, your late night eff off is still there 🙂 , I think there is sommat afoot with the moderation,remember that Daves father-in-law is into the windmill scam and stands to make a packet from that scam so he won’t like the exposure and of course those who earn a crust in the street of shame will do as they are told.

    PS I know that the hacks are out in the docks but street of shame still sums up the situation

  234. aurelian says:

    @Mack, June 13, 2010 at 2:51 am
    How did the Telegraph mess things up so badly?

    From way up there in Management, it’s impossible to perceive the soul of an activity way down here in pleb land, but there’s still that urge to get some formation into it. Unfortunately, the modernising impulse is apt to kill the essence. Just look at the Church of England for instance.

    It’s their site, however, and they have the right to do what they want with it.

  235. manonthemoor says:

    Just been looking how the post processing of data has gone on.

    Seems ok back to October last year eg Climategate

    However timestamps only show when NOT logged n

    Also there is only search by page and one would need the patience of Jobe to find anything using a keyword . There was a showall option on DSQUS we have seen it I copied it.

    Surely the thing to do would be to close a blog after say 2 weeks, and go to show all, the load on the system would be miniscule and yet so useful.

    At presnt is is like having a library full of books and throwing away the index system

    What a mess, a terrible corruption of a valuable resource.

  236. manonthemoor says:

    Amerloque says:
    June 13, 2010 at 3:48 am

    Co-incidences have a way of praying on the mind. I’m sure my ISP crash is a coincidence, however if it was not for the goodwill of a neighbour, I would be off air prabably till next Tuesday, at the earliest, having spent 3x 30 mins on the phone to convince them that there was a fault at the exchange.

  237. aurelian says:

    @scud1, June 13, 2010 at 3:16 am
    I enjoyed your conjecture very much. I generally tend to favour cockup rather than conspiracy, but there has been so much bare-faced wickedness online in recent months that conspiracy can’t be ruled out.

    In the end, it’s obvious that “the science” is toast. However, the political gravy train rumbles brazenly on. (Sorry about the mixed food metaphors there.) The sort of evil machinations which you describe do appear to be common in politics — witness the ClimateGate inquiries.

  238. Mack says:

    Booker has commented on Margaret Hilda and her view on the fraud,the comments are locked!

  239. Amanda says:

    Scud: Your dialogues are hilarious.

  240. Amanda says:

    Aurelian says: I do not think that the Telegraph will miss me, since one warm body is as good as another where site stats are concerned. I doubt the Telegraph is interested in the substance of the comments posted by visitors, beyond wishing them to be safe to show.

    Well stated and I agree.

  241. manonthemoor says:

    The DT blog has virtually stalled msher carries on valiantly

    The JD blog has almost no customes

    It is all happening here, pehaps a bit quiet ( all watching England v USA football)

  242. Good morning all,

    Been a bit quiet overnight, but it’s the weekend so maybe things will liven up in a few days. G’day to all of you who posted overnight…

    MOTM: always a pleasure to read your contributions. Writing an intro isn’t so time consuming, but if the load does increase I may give your suggestion further thought.

    theepilogue/siftingtheshit/David/Apologies to all, especially ozboy: touché LOL! I didn’t mean to imply you’d changed your handle with intent to deceive us, but rather they muck up search engines and such. I don’t mind which of those handles you use (even this one, though I fear the joke might start to wear thin). Why not stick to whatever you’re using at DT, there’s a good bloke.

    BTW, your comment was held for moderation as it had 4 links; apologies, I misread the settings which specified a minimum number to be held over. I’ve bumped it up by one so four links will now get straight through.

    Noidea: likewise always great to hear from you. Could you possibly do me a favour—I understand you are in contact with Walt. When you get a chance, could you pass on my invitation to drop by? I know he’s given the DT a miss for a while, but let him know he’s most welcome down here.

    Rastech: I finally got a chance to have a Captain Cook at your site. All I can say is, wow! What you’re attempting is an order of magnitude more ambitious than my little linear blog—a kind of meta-blog. I’ll have a word to you in due course about linking LibertyGibbert somewhere in your hierachy. Don’t know how hard it is to implement in MySQL (SQL Server is my own stock-in-trade) but for what you’ve accomplished already, congratulations.

    I’ll check in on you all in a few hours.


  243. Edward Longshanks says:

    scud1 says:
    June 13, 2010 at 3:16 am
    I salute you sir!
    Don’t let the bastards grind you down kiddo, I am philosophical about it, I despair about the DT and have said so, it is a f****** conspiracy and undoubtedly preconceived.
    JD works for them so maybe his hands are tied, he asks for loyalty………I enjoyed the craic but cannot stand new format, I do dip in every now and again but it ain’t the same and as I’ve said – I am not a patient type.
    Funk ’em and move on.

    Kind regards, Ed. – your new No.1 fan, BTW Last night- I cut and did past your diatribe on JDs blog here (June 12th 09.18), I lurved it! – straight from the heart and I wish I’d have written it.

  244. rogercuul says:

    From todays Dt-
    Britain will be forced to cut carbon emissions by more than 40% to achieve a global deal on climate change.
    In Luxenbourg Chris Huhne argued that the EU should increase its target for cutting emissions from 20 to 30% by 2020.
    This will mean that rich(?) countries like Britain will be obliged to take on a larger burden so that poorer nations in the EU, such as Poland, can continue to develop their economies.
    Huhne now has the backing of the PM to push Europe towards a 30% cut on 1990 levels over the next 10 years.
    If the EU, the UN and our idiots have their way we will be able to borrow a lot more money to support industry in other countries while we at best stagnate.

  245. NoIdea says:

    Hello, David.
    Thank you for the links, I found that Royer dude to be particularly up himself, just my personal opinion based on what I have read you will understand.
    From the link at

    Click to access Royer%20et%20al.%202004%20GSA%20Today.pdf

    I note
    “This work was supported by Department of Energy Grant DE-FG02-01ER15173 (RAB), and National Science Foundation Grants EAR 01-04797 (RAB) and EAR 98-14640 (IPM).
    Follow the money. Always follow the momey.

    Looking at

    Click to access PhanCO2%28GCA%29.pdf

    This is hard work all the way through.
    It is obvious that this is another fine example of someone who cannot work the software they are using. They also show a loose grasp of some basic concepts. Consider
    Fig. 3. CO2 and temperature records for the (A) Late Ordovician to early
    Triassic (460–240 Ma) and (B) Jurassic to late Cretaceous (200–80 Ma).
    The CO2 record is derived from Fig. 1B. Cold periods with strong evidence
    for geographically widespread ice are marked with dark shaded bands.
    Cool-to-cold periods with indirect or equivocal evidence for ice (see
    Section 2 for details) are marked with light shaded bands. The horizontal
    dashed lines at 1000 and 500 ppm CO2 represent the proposed CO2
    thresholds for, respectively, the initiation of globally cool events and full
    glacials. Note that the scaling of the time axis differs between the two

    Notice the use of dark shaded bands and light shaded bands, both grey and close to being the same shade.
    This poor sap cannot use his chart maker in colour, and we are supposed to believe he gets all this science jargon?
    Note the mention of horizontal dashed lines, here he further demonstrates his ignorance, a dashed line would be a broken line, not a continuous line. Do you think he was trying to impress with another tricky long word or two?

    This other link provided explains the science behind why Royer is a muppet

    Click to access i1052-5173-14-3-e4.pdf

    Royer et al. (2004) cite the unquestionably impressive correlation of
    CO2 and polar temperatures in Antarctic ice cores (Barnola et al., 1987;
    Petit et al., 1999) as a proof that CO2 is the climate driver on ~105 year
    time scales. This correlation, however, cannot distinguish by itself between
    cause and effect. More important, recent high-resolution data (Mudelsee,
    2001; Clarke, 2003) demonstrates that the rises in CO2 lag by centuries
    (i.e., much smaller than the 105 year time scale) behind the increases in

    Note also that the GEOCARB
    III results in high atmospheric CO2 levels for most of the Paleozoic and
    mid-Mesozoic. In order to explain the recurring cold intervals during these
    times, one has to resort to a multitude of special pleadings. The late Ordovician
    glaciation at an apparent ~5000 ppm CO2 is a classic example.

    The conclusion has this gem
    “A proper analysis, which avoids this bootstrapping and considers a
    more realistic pH correction, shows that the global temperature sensitivity
    to CO2 is still relatively small.”

    Once more some fabulous links, please keep them coming.

  246. manonthemoor says:

    @ ozboy
    Off to bed soon but
    A few thoughts

    I suspect both Pointman and Walt were concerned about cookies and other similar trackers on the DT site — any ideas — I assume this site is clean. Also the self moderation has worked very well so far.

    Secondly there are a couple of things I would like to pass on privately, how about a logon /user which acts as a blind post box? — Or a simple comment system private not broadcast.

    Thirdly you are our moderator and our guide, I would like to think that you will speak up if things go awry.

    Like your interaction — miss the James interaction —wonder if he is sweating? —

    Is there a way of highlighting your comments as we had with James

  247. NoIdea says:

    Hiya Ozboy.
    I will send Walt a mail forthwith to convey the invitation.
    It is such a shame that all those still posting great stuff on the DT have to watch it slide into the depths of obscurity.
    Will they ever sort that convoluted Disgusting mess?

  248. crownarmourer says:

    Well cookies can be blocked and spybot search & destroy free software is pretty good but if you have really sensitive information you wish to protect don’t logon, last night I experienced some very strange behaviour on my machine until I cleaned it up so they may have a point and the fact the DT software only works with IE for the most part bothers me.

  249. manonthemoor says:

    @ crownarmourer says:
    June 13, 2010 at 7:50 am

    I have successfully used the DISQUS system with Firefox (after allowing cookies), Chrome and Opera.

    I seem to remember you know about Linux, I use the latest puppy linux both HD and Live. In fact to log on to next door my quickest route to see if it worked I used the live CD.

    The advantage of the live Cd is that all the rubbish never gets to the normal machine HD if only browsing or simple text creation is required. Can load and save data from dongle of course.

  250. theepilogue says:


    I have a lot of reading to do. I really want to get to grips with this past temperature/ CO2 stuff. I haven’t properly read those papers I posted, just the abstracts and conclusions. I’m going to have a read of them next week, and also see what the IPCC have said on the matter.

    It strikes me that if it can be demonstrated that CO2 levels have not always happily correlated with temperatures (and I’m not sure it can – I’ll let you know my thoughts next week when I’ve read more), then all we can then say is that a rise in temperature does not necessarily lead to a rise in CO2 levels. We already knew that past climate change (with one or two possible exceptions) was not driven by increasing CO2. All the more recent graphs (e.g. or [page 5]) show CO2 lagging temperature. So all we’ve called into question if we can demonstrate a breakdown in the relationship between CO2 and temperature, is that CO2 does not represent a particularly notable feedback mechanism – and as we all know, water vapour is supposed to be the most important feedback mechanism.

    It doesn’t seem to me that a breakdown in the relationship would qualify the statement: “global temperature sensitivity to CO2 is still relatively small” – that seems to mix up the causation…

    Am I missing something?

  251. crownarmourer says:

    MOTM I know a little about linux but could figure it out if I needed to, just downloaded opera and it works a treat better than IE or Firefox. Bit of a hog though on memory.

  252. theepilogue says:


    I recognise that my above post only accounts for those periods where temperature is high and CO2 is low. Periods where temperature is low and CO2 is high are more tricky, although I imagine that if you have enough other forcings (solar irradiation, cosmic rays, Milankovitch cycles etc.) then CO2 becomes an irrelevance Re: determining temperature. That still begs the question, why are CO2 levels high? Lack of plant life? As I say more reading to be done…

    P.S. is it my imagination or can you see some correlation here – – particularly when you take into account the ‘Estimate of uncertainty’?

  253. Edward Longshanks says:

    rogercuul says:
    June 13, 2010 at 7:18 am
    Words fail me, you have totally discombobulated my karma, these ferkin dorks! And Huhne is one of the worst, he should really be in league with Caroline Lucas’s bunch of whack jobs.


  254. Edward Longshanks says:

    Always thought Mrs Thatcher was partly/mainly maybe, responsible for initial AGW scare mongering but she saw the light………… .

  255. Edward Longshanks says:

    This is interesting as well, can you see it Chris? (Huhne)……..But then again, the science is settled*!**?

    Ozboy off to south coast,
    See ya around.

  256. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    NoIdea says: June 13, 2010 at 2:05 am

    Brilliant response, so too your later one. You’re putting these things in terms that even a klutz like me can understand. Thanks.

    scud1 says: June 13, 2010 at 3:16 am

    Nothing like a good laugh on a bright Sunday morning, very well done. We’ll never really know how close to the mark you are, but it sounds pretty plausible to me.

    G’day Oz,
    I’m wondering if this is already operating in the US and Europe and is inevitable here…

    “Plan to keep search history angers internet freedom fighters”

    Bloggers have so derailed the “best-laid plans of mice and men” (light on “men”, riddled with rodents) that, like the DT (scud’s version priceless), these buggers seem willing to go to any lengths to raise the drawbridge and safeguard their highly profitable AGW/Economic interests.

    Shame if Walt and Pointy are spooked by possible repercussions against their own interests but I’d love to see sceptics with the know-how to build bigger and better siege-engines/ballistas knock down the fortifications as the rodents build them.

  257. crownarmourer says:

    Hi blackswan, total change of subject but I have to share this one, we have a company just across the border called ONAN Generators. Priceless.

  258. crownarmourer says:

    Blackswan well the bad news is a lot of companies in the USA already keep your work searches on file my own company keeps about a years worth for legal reasons. Our policy permits fair use but does not hate speech or Porn as these while bad could upset somebody else seeing someone looking at them and instant multi million dollar lottery winner I mean lawsuit. Management could not care less really but anything that costs money is an issue. We have had stocking fetish man, muscley women man, transvestite man, where do I find hookers man and more rarely a woman looking stuff up.
    These people have been warned not to do this stuff but do so none the less the data
    we keep can help prove a pattern or actually prove their innocence and it is useful. Rarely do we fire anybody.
    Very rarely and I mean extremely rarely will you find anybody looking at child porn and that’s a matter for the FBI where our logs can help.
    However we have our hands tied as to what we can nor cannot do witch hunts are not allowed.
    Saying that I think there should be a time limit on the data say a year and it needs a valid search warrant to provide the data for a major felony only and anything not related to the case must filtered out and when the case has finished this information needs to stored if convicted or destroyed if found innocent pending appeals etc failure to do so should lead to a jail sentence and large fine.

  259. Locusts says:


    Do you get to have a one-on-one chat with these guys. I’d love to see the expression on their faces, when they realize they’ve been found out.

    about the cookies, it’s all getting a bit conspiracy theorist to suppose that the changes are implemented to track everything we do, but that the comments can’t be downloaded via rss, or viewed on an old text browser is very annoying.

    Apart from using some kind of slow proxy server or a dreadfully slow onion router, it’s pretty hard to anonymize oneself isn’t it?

  260. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Hi Crown,
    Thanks for that. I do understand why companies need such information for the reasons you describe, in fact a family member worked for a multi-national where any “skin tones” were red-flagged. To me, that’s reasonable considering the users are using company equipment on company time at company expense (they have a bloody nerve if you ask me), but then heck, I’m old-school. Blood from a stone, that’s my workplace policy LOL…….

    It’s when Guvmint legislates to keep tabs on the citizenry-at-large that gets my hackles up (or feathers ruffled), without any warrant as is necessary for legal action.
    What are they playing at? As we know, information today is power. Information is a high-priced commodity, bought and sold around the world for all manner of marketing and other nefarious purposes.

    When such info is used for political purposes, what then? Bugger ’em. Let them knock on my door, not scurry around in the dark like a swarm of cockroaches.

    And David………
    please spare me your congratulations. I don’t need your approval to validate my opinions. My view of the world is my own – if others agree, it’s entirely incidental.

  261. crownarmourer says:

    Locust the cookies is for the ads nothing sinister it’s to maximize there revenue. However it is intrusive on our privacy. Proxy servers is the only way I am aware of but I don’t use them myself got nothing to hide and good luck anyone making sense of what I say on the Internet.

  262. crownarmourer says:

    Blackswan the trouble with government doing this to protect the public and criminals it will eventually be abused by minor officials to snoop on the general public or personal enemies or to impose petty regulations.
    Anti terror legislation in the UK has been used in this way by local councils to snoop on people for not recycling.

  263. crownarmourer says:

    Locusts no we do not talk to them but we do talk to HR and they tell us a few things about the acute embarrassment and sometimes the lousy excuses but not much detail as we would get into legal trouble if they did. Usually it’s a warning except in extreme cases.

  264. NoIdea says:

    Hello, David.

    Your posts are becoming ever trickier to answer (for me) as it appears you are now asking the same kind of questions I find myself asking.
    My “take” on it is that as temperatures rise, the chemistry and physics of the oceans change. The oceans change temperature slowly as they are a huge hit sink and have tremendous thermal inertia. (Hence the lag between temp. and CO2) As the temperature increases CO2 is released (or the rate of absorption drops) from the oceans (and soil). There are a whole bunch of parameters that will decide the rate of release.
    The pH will change as it releases CO2, this will not always be an easily understood linear process. There are many changing values that will affect the release. The buffering effect of dissolved compounds that resist changes in pH values, and the mineral content i.e. dissolved solids are all factors I need to learn a lot more about.
    The rate of CO2 uptake by vegetation will be dependent on a combination of factors.
    With increased CO2 and warmth with no other limiting factors (water, nutrients, minerals and light etc) we know that plants can become mega. Depending on which conditions are available, vegetation will either rot and decompose (or get eaten or burnt) releasing its captured carbon, or it can become sequestered by other dead plant material building up on top of the existing decaying material, If this occurs we get peat beds building up. Peat is coal in its infancy. I read that eleven feet of peat gets compressed into one foot of coal.
    With the temperature rising we know that the atmosphere will hold more water vapour, we can feel the difference between a humid atmosphere and a dry one. Air with high humidity is actually less dense than dry air so it is no surprise that it rises. We know so little about clouds and exactly how they work. We can observe that when they diffuse the sunlight it feels colder, we can also observe that they keep the surface warmer at night time. Negative and positive feedbacks abound.
    If in your travels through all the wonderful pages you find, you come across any information on the thermal gradient of oceans I would be most interested.
    Hopefully izen may get a chance to see this and put us straight on any misconceptions we may have.
    Will we ever gain a true understanding of ALL the processes involved?

  265. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Crown 4.01pm

    “Anti terror legislation in the UK has been used in this way by local councils to snoop on people for not recycling”.

    Good grief! How does that work and why?

    As it is, I refuse to fly these days because in recent years, one too many officious little creeps at one too many airports telling me what I can and can’t do/bring/carry that had my blood pressure through the roof. I’m a simple swan who likes a simple life.

    To have that rigor applied to recycling would have me up the wall. BTW, on movies I’ve seen NYC garbage barges on the Hudson river (usually for the hero to land on when leaping off bridges to escape the baddies). Question: Where are they taking all that trash? Don’t tell me they dump it at sea.

  266. crownarmourer says:

    Blackswan they actually used to dump it on a island close by, if I understand things correctly you can now build energy producing plants that take all the organics and burn them at plasma temperatures reducing the waste without as much pollution so there is no need to that anymore. The energy produced can be used to offset the costs of collection and reduce the need for new power plants. May not make a profit but provides jobs and should lower taxes a little.
    I’m not sure about the anti terror legislation but what I do know it allows them to spy on you at your expense via taxes much more than the actual minor crime is worth dealing with in the courts via fines etc. It ends up raising taxes to pay for the spying.

  267. NoIdea says:

    How much pollution does recycling generate?
    There is the cost of all those huge multicolored plastic bins we have, with the entire manufacture, delivery and distribution footprint that goes with it.
    What do they do with all the carefully washed and sorted refuse?
    Do they, as some have suggested, throw it all in the same big hole in the ground as they always used to?
    Why do they insist that we do not waste water running the tap whilst brushing our teeth or flushing our lavatories properly, and at the same time require that empty food tins are washed and clean before putting out for collection?
    Why is water going down the drains considered “wasted”?
    Why do the morons that come up with the cash for clunkers scam, never seem to understand that there is a huge energy and material cost involved in turning several old cars into one new car?
    Why have I seen that they are considering rewarding (with cash!) folks for recycling more?
    Do they not see the inevitable garbage wars that will occur?
    Why is it not obvious that the only effective recycling is done at the point of refuse generation?
    Think how effective recycling a jam jar is if you continue to use it (recycle) as a jar in your home, Think how many resources are being wasted in the collection of mixed dirty broken glass by large lorries running round the country. In a best case scenario, this glass would be melted down and cleaned up before being driven all round the country to folks who need raw glass, they will then process this raw material back into jars or bottles to be delivered all over the country.
    Instead of throwing out that jumper because it is last years fashion, ignore the propaganda that new is better and wear it until it wears out, or you find some one else who needs the jumper you longer wish to wear.

    The true cost of recycling badly just to get that feel good factor is immense.
    Throwing useful resources at bad seems obviously dumb.
    IF you can achieve a state whereby you generate no waste to be collected, then you are truly greener my friend.
    IF you can achieve a state whereby you consume no resources, then you are dead and properly green. (Unless you get cremated)
    Is this a good thing?

  268. crownarmourer says:

    noidea a lot of recycled material is sent to China to reprocessed. China obviously lacks a lot of raw materials such as wood so all old paper products are sent there to make cardboard boxes or packaging. They also lack metals and import scrap likewise.
    Hardly environmentally friendly considering the carbon footprint but who cares as the rich get richer.

  269. Amerloque says:

    Hi manonthemoor
    on June 13, 2010 at 4:43 am

    ///Amerloque says: June 13, 2010 at 3:48

    Co-incidences have a way of praying on the mind.///


    In Casino Royale, the first James Bond penned by Ian Fleming, one could read on the introductory page:

    “Once is happenstance;
    Twice is coincidence;
    Three times is enemy action.”

    Amerloque first read those lines in 1957 (he was confined to bed with an illness, which is why he remembers the exact date …) and has been thinking of them more and more of late.

    Amerloque 20100613 10h50 Paris time (CET)

  270. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Thanks Crown and NoIdea,
    Recycling and its attendant rules & regulations and illogical cost is a pet peeve of mine.
    Those super-duper incinerator/energy plants seem a great idea. We all just comply having no idea where it goes and the costs involved. I’ll check it out one day.

  271. theepilogue says:


    Re: recycling – there’s an excellent book called Cradle to Cradle which offers some interesting thoughts on recycling, might be worth a look.


    I don’t need your approval to validate my opinions. My view of the world is my own – if others agree, it’s entirely incidental.

    Congratulations again, this time for stating the bleedin’ obvious. Rest assured, my congratulations weren’t for your benefit and I’m quite aware of the fact that you don’t need my validation. Have a nice day.

  272. crownarmourer says:

    amerloque there was a 1957? I thought the Universe was created just for me when I was born and anything prior to that was made up. I hold to the very specific anthropic principle the Universe revolves around me.

  273. Mack says:

    crownarmourer says:
    June 13, 2010 at 8:26 am
    Linux a hog on memory? No way, I can run linux form a pen drive on 32mb of ram !!
    The lives cd/dvd versions actually work on ram so they will hog all you have. Ubuntu is up and running in less than 45 seconds from switch on.
    I took to Linux ten years ago after the number of PC’s that I was asked to clean rocketed, almost eveyone I know had problems with windows.

  274. manonthemoor says:

    Morning all , thanks to my helpful neighbours Wi Fi

    Recycling is one of my pet hates, there isso much useful stuff that gets dumped with easy faults to fix or out of fashion, lack of space etc.

    To my mind local councils should be OBLIGED to allow access to some of this stuff at the dumps. One assumes a disclaimer would be required in writing to satisfy the elf’n’safety. The argument is that people would use this as a business opportunity. Is that such a bad thing rather than sitting at home on the dole

    mnonthemoor 13 June 10:52

  275. Mack says:

    manonthemoor says:
    June 13, 2010 at 7:52 pm
    I am the proud owner of 8 computers,my son has 3.

    “To my mind local councils should be OBLIGED to allow access to some of this stuff at the dumps”


  276. Evening/morning all,

    Not quite sure how to react to the news from the World Cup, which I’m told has kept many of our regulars occupied recently. I must confess that I have little interest in soccer, but based on what I’ve read in the British media, I really wouldn’t want to be in the shoes of that poor goalkeeper Robert Green—they’re flaying the bloke alive. Oh well, go the Socceroos I suppose; even though their only player whose name I’m aware of, apparently goes by the initials R.E.Q.L. Who???

    Scud, Scud, Scud me lad! So sorry I’ve not till now read your minor literary masterpiece: bravo! You’ve just given me a wonderful (and highly subversive) idea, which I’ll try to tell you all about shortly.

    NoIdea, many thanks for passing on my invitation to Walt. Should he be so inclined to join us, he would be an invaluable addition to our little community.

    Blackswan Tasmania on June 13, 2010 at 12:53 pm: I’m a little busy right now, but rest assured Ozboy will get around to training his 90-calibre on that nasty little proposal: precisely the sort of affront to our liberty that prompted me to create this blog in the first place.

    I’m reluctant to start a new AGW thread while the highly entertaining debate between noidea and theepilogue continues—hyperlinks at ten paces, gentlemen. If I do so, I’ll invite you both to continue across there.

    Back in approximately 10 hours

    Enjoy yourselves 😉


  277. Amerloque says:

    Hi crownarmourer !

    /// amerloque there was a 1957? ///

    Yup. (wide grin)

    It was Laika’s year …


    Amerloque 20100613 12h01 Paris time (CET)

  278. manonthemoor says:

    With regard to the other topic of the day, security and suveillance.

    I am willing to bet that 99% of the data is never looked at since it would take an army of watchers to monitor all the data collected. Clearly digital data can be automatically monitored for key words or phrases, Google do it and clearly DISQUS does it. The danger is that these systems create a false sense of security but no real benefit exists.

    I have an overriding view that the human race has not yet come to terms with the information technology which surrounds, us and for every benefit eg the internet there is the down side of intrusive monitoring. Sky tv is another example where connection to the phone line allow monitoring of who watches what for ‘advertising’ purposes. Big brother is everywhere we may just have to get used to it.

    AS an aside I wonder if JAMES is watching us on this site, if so James hope you are well, but no doubt punch drunk over the events of the last two weeks.
    I wonder what the future holds?

  279. Amerloque says:

    AGW is a scientific, intellectual, political, financial and moral scam. The climate has been changing for millions upon millions of years.

    This is a must read:

    ‘The Deniers: The World-Renowned Scientists Who Stood Up Against Global Warming Hysteria, Political Persecution, and Fraud…and Those Who Are Too Fearful to Do So’

    by Lawrence Solomon

    “Al Gore and his media allies claim the only scientists who dispute the alarmist view on global warming are corrupt crackpots and “deniers”, comparable to neo-Nazis who deny the Holocaust.

    Solomon (a well-respected ecology activist who believes that there is global warming) methodically debunks Gore’s outrageous charges, showing in one ‘headline’ case after another that the scientists who dispute Gore’s doomsday scenarios have far more credibility than those who support Gore’s theories. These men who expose Gore’s claims as absurd hold top positions at the most prestigious scientific institutes in the world. Their work is cited and acclaimed throughout the scientific community.

    No wonder Gore and his allies want to pretend they don’t exist.”

    20100613 12h10 Paris time (CET)

  280. Oh and MOTM:

    You’ve got mail.

  281. manonthemoor says:

    @ Mack

    I hear you mack , my speciallity is laptops. I have a museum collection of over 30 laptops, mostly in working conditon, dating back to a small 386 Toshiba with only about 1Meg of ram and a 200Meg HD.

    Batteries are a headache for me but aside from that the machines are no worse than the latest an greatest net books. As an aside how do people manage ipads, the egonomics, I do not understand — must need one hand to hold and one finger to prod the keyboard.
    My biggest problem is persuading my wife that such things are worth keeping for posterity

    ps I also have a large collection of magazine cover CD’s dating back to the original PCW cover Cd’s. I wonder if such collections will ever be recognised.

    pps my wife has already made up her mind

  282. manonthemoor says:

    libertygibbert says:
    June 13, 2010 at 8:13 pm

    Thanks ozboy, I will attend to it during today

    Sleep well


  283. NoIdea says:

    Taking a leaf from scuds book, I have attempted a short, light hearted piece of Sci-Fi

    The end of the beginning.

    The year is 2030, the date is uncertain.

    The Grand Regal Oligarch Champion Of Temporal Terror was standing in his ivory tower surveying the wasteland. The rufescent irradiance from the gibbous sun glowing through his ears.
    He turned to his Chief Religious Advisor of Policy Scientific, the enigmatic Lord Isis Zagreus Eos Nereus.
    “How are the talks progressing my old friend, are the realists being more reasonable in their requests for remunerations?”
    “NO” boomed back the metallic but harmonious and mellifluous voice.
    “Do they insist still on full disclosure and a heartfelt apology?”
    “YES” the reply reverberated back.
    The Grand Regal Oligarch Champion Of Temporal Terror was almost incandescent with rage and fury, his veins pulsed and throbbed menacingly in his temples, the sinews in his neck where drawn tight and started to vibrate.
    “It is just so unfair!” he wailed between false gnashing teeth.
    “I mean it really isn’t our fault, we only believed what we where told, by experts, who would have guessed a barely literate uneducated oaf would have been right?”
    Lord Isis Zagreus Eos Nereus stayed silent, he had heard this dianoetic diatribe many times before.
    The Grand Regal Oligarch Champion Of Temporal Terror let out a deep sigh.
    “You are sure that they will remove the dome shield and reintegrate all of us back into natural society?” He spat the last two words out as if they were venomous scorpions.
    “YES” rang out the echoed affirmative like a bell.
    “Did we ever find out what happened to the idiot with the lucky guesses? The last report I read seemed contradictory to all previous reports and even itself. The graph plotting the last supposed coordinates over probable time frame is ridiculous. All the lines are in white, on a white background! Gah! We never did get the hang of graphs did we old friend?
    “NO” crashed out the muttered reply from the shadows.
    The Grand Regal Oligarch Champion Of Temporal Terror let out another even deeper sigh of despair, in a direct contradiction of the clean breathing algorithm (Hallowed be his name) act of April 01 2011. The RFID chip had started to flash menacingly, warning of instant termination if a third wasteful breath should be breathed. Of course as the grand architect of the plan to rule and regulate everyone The Grand Regal Oligarch Champion Of Temporal Terrors RFID chip was not fully active. Unlike the one that had blown off his old friend Lord Isis Zagreus Eos Nereus head. Thank the sciences they had built him a replacement clockwork head.
    “Lucky for me I did not have you rebuilt as a yes man I think old pal, what say you?
    On cue with a monotonous regularity
    “NO” The Lord of shadows intoned.

    To be continued…?

  284. manonthemoor says:

    @NoIdea says:
    June 13, 2010 at 8:59 pm

    Excellent — Beyond compare — the never ending story — to be continued,

  285. manonthemoor says:

    @ Ozboy

    ‘Its in thepost’ as the saying goes


  286. Mack says:

    Just been over to JD’s, dismal performance there

  287. Mack says:

    manonthemoor says:
    June 13, 2010 at 8:29 pm
    Nice collection ! I would hang on to them as maybe collectors items. I have cameras going back to 1910 [not from the dump btw 🙂 ] And when folks see them its all ‘wow ‘and ‘lovely’ and its a little bit of history.I also have fossils and bits of rock and other stuff which pleases her indoors no end.

  288. Mack says:

    But to re-cycling, the only sensible from an engineers point of view is incineration with heat/power recovery . Toss in everything and grind it up, pass over racks and filters and magnets and blowers and then into the pot with the rest. You can recover a lot of glass and metals to sell on [at the municipal level ] .I do recycle as I have no other way of keeping stuff out of landfill and the pollution it causes but would love to see the job done properly.
    BTW stuff gets sent to Asia as the containers would be going back empty and so transport is done at a a silly low rate.All the dumped electronics contain rare materials which we should be keeping and not fuelling other economies with.

  289. manonthemoor says:

    Thanks mack

    I note there is a battle royal going on between Judy8 and msher ( who is being supported by our team )

    Well worth a look see


  290. NoIdea says:

    The end of the beginning.

    Chapter 2
    On the outside now.

    June the thirteenth 2030

    Outside the dome shield containing the Environmental Protection Intelligence Corporation, a conversation, if it can be called such, as there will be no words spoken, just thoughts or ideas transferred will occur.
    The Nano Omnipotent Intelligent Diagnostic Ethereal Aberrance is “talking” to the Static Technocratic idiomatic libertarianistic Logistic version of itself. We shall call them Nan and St.Ill for ease and shortness sake.
    “Hiya Nan. How are you doing? Don’t tell me, I already know. That is great news.”
    Nan responds “Do you think THEY will ever know?”
    St.Ill pauses for an eternity of excruciating exactitude 0.01 of a reduced Plank constant in fact. “I am not sure I know how the paradox occurred, THEY will never know”

    Sat around a roaring campfire at the edge of the jungle, looking over the valley of despair, there the dome shield squatted, malignant and grey, Two of our heroes, champions of their day, waiting for the hydrospit to finish cooking the fantastic array of flesh succulent and sweet. A pig stuffed with a sheep itself stuffed with ducks was slowly rotating and dripping its fats into the fire, each spitting ember burning with flames of fatty splendor and a wondrous aroma.
    Manon a grizzled veteran of the flame wars and the attack of the Doppeltrolls sat back on his haunches and mused out aloud “the rest of them will be back shortly I wonder whom they have found?”
    Theoz poked the sizzling crisping dripping golden crackling “I just hope they remembered to get some apples, mint and oranges for the sauces, this is looking good. Do you remember much about the paradox perspective of paradigm pleasure parallelism that we plebeians’ participated in?”
    “Do you mean the Fantasy Shift in the Here and Now? Or the, there and then, as it is now, in the then and here soon? Came Amerl’s voice from the undergrowth.
    Manon hails Amerl “hey there Amerl, come on over pull up a log, give us the news”
    Amerl leant back and began to speak.
    “I remember much from those days, the battle cries “now is not the time to let up!” and “warm is good” we realists stood our ground, we may have been forced to tilt at windmills but we prevailed. When mankind got over its arrogance and decided to work with nature rather than against it the planet exploded with life. When the abundance of the planet was realized in its full potential it gave us the excuse to be happy and tolerate greed and stupidity no more. Unfortunately the Elite had booby trapped some of their vast estates with time mines, these infernal devices hit us constantly with the discordant refrains of psychopop controlling our senses and emotions. The Data Plague of Primary Slave was the first stop gap developed to thwart that class of nefarious devices. Now we have this shattered but abundant time. The EPIC dome shield was a badly concieved planetary defense system turned inside out by a Noid, so that it now only covers the small area we see here today at the pole. We have made contact with those in the dome, we have offered to release them from their self imposed exile in the wasteland if they say sorry and promise not to do any more silly stuff. They are considering the offer”
    “Did we ever work out who made the Noid that saved us?” Asked Manon.
    “I still maintain that it was one of the crew” growled Theoz “there are still a few of the old bunch unaccounted for, it could be any one of them”
    There was a moments quiet as each of our heroes contemplated friends lost in or to the ravages of time.
    The silence was broken by a crashing in the undergrowth.
    The three friends stood up, weapons at hand, exchanging glances, ready for anything be it friend or foe.

    To be continued…?

  291. manonthemoor says:

    Sorry back on topic
    There is another parallel universe between ‘turbines’ and ‘windmills’.

    It seems our leaders like turbines but some othersare recognising the madness of windmills.

    Latest DT article here

  292. manonthemoor says:

    @NoIdea says:
    June 14, 2010 at 12:12 am

    Definitely a parrallel universe. gripping stuff

    If you continue over the coming days ozboy may offer you your own slot.

  293. Amerloque says:

    Hi manonthemoor !

    ///I note there is a battle royal going on between Judy8 and msher ( who is being supported by our team )

    Well worth a look see.///

    (wide grin) Yes. One should also make a very, very special effort to “recommend” each of “our” posts … n’est-ce pas ? (wider grin)

    Amerloque 20100613 18h30 Paris time (CET)

  294. Amerloque says:

    Hi manonthemoor !

    manonthemoor says:
    on June 13, 2010 at 11:41 pm

    ///battle royal ///

    Over there in neverland …

    /// Judy8
    Please! I can only say yet again – truth is a quality, not a quantity. ///

    The lady (?) seems not to understand the portent of her words. (grin)

    Wonder how her sentences relate to, err, ummm … the locution ‘scientific consensus’.
    (wide grin)

    20100613 18h45 Paris time (CET)

  295. manonthemoor says:

    @Amerloque says:
    June 14, 2010 at 2:29 am

    I agree — ‘Mission accomplished’


  296. Amerloque says:

    Here is the text of an Washington Post (Associated Press) article:… from 1922 (wattsupwiththat)

    ///The Arctic ocean is warming up, icebergs are growing scarcer and in some places the seals are finding the water too hot, according to a report to the Commerce Department yesterday from Consul Ifft, at Bergen, Norway.

    Reports from fishermen, seal hunters and explorers, he declared, all point to a radical change in climate conditions and hitherto unheard-of temperatures in the Arctic zone. Exploration expeditions report that scarcely any ice has been met with as far north as 81 degrees 29 minutes. Soundings to a depth of 3,100 meters showed the gulf stream still very warm.

    Great masses of ice have been replaced by moraines of earth and stones, the report continued, while at many points well known glaciers have entirely disappeared. Very few seals and no white fish are found in the eastern Arctic, while vast shoals of herring and smelts, which have never before ventured so far north, are being encountered in the old seal fishing grounds.///

    20100613 19h01 Paris time (CET)

  297. Old Toad says:

    Mack says “Just been over to JD’s blog, dismal performance there”. As Scud so brilliantly points out, there are those at the DT who are quite happy with this. Someone has let looose a large rat which calls itself ‘Judy8’ and all the terriers are yapping after it, as soon as it mentions the emotive words ‘Plimer’ & ‘Monckton’. All this may swell the number of responses but ensures that the damage done by Huhne and the Cleggerons goes un-discussed.

  298. Mack says:

    ““It will without doubt have come to your Lordship’s knowledge that a considerable change of climate, inexplicable at present to us, must have taken place in the Circumpolar Regions, by which the severity of the cold that has for centuries past enclosed the seas in the high northern latitudes in an impenetrable barrier of ice has been during the last two years, greatly abated….

    ….. this affords ample proof that new sources of warmth have been opened and give us leave to hope that the Arctic Seas may at this time be more accessible than they have been for centuries past, and that discoveries may now be made in them not only interesting to the advancement of science but also to the future intercourse of mankind and the commerce of distant nations.” A request was made for the Royal Society to assemble an expedition to go and investigate.

    President of the Royal Society, London, to the Admiralty, 20th November, 1817, Minutes of Council, Volume 8. pp.149-153, Royal Society, London. 20th November, 1817.(from)

    The quote from the Royal Society is fairly well known, however it is only part of the extract. The missing part –detailed under- heralded the start of modern arctic science.

  299. Mack says:

    Old Toad says:
    June 14, 2010 at 3:56 am
    Indeed, one bloody catamite from Moonbat and the blog is in shit yet again.No lessons seem to have been learned from the recent fiasco. The entire quota of comments over there today has been on this troll and not the subject. It is quite simple.First troll post block by IP,end of troll.OR ask troll nicely to rephrase post [ having first deleted it. OR do nothing. Personally when I see the do nothing option taken I go for the jugular and hurtle as much abuse as I can manage while enjoying myself no end.Why should we post wonderful and exotic comments which will be shit on by trolls? If you own a forum or blog you have a duty of care to all those who make it work for you and that is to nip trouble in the bud

  300. manonthemoor says:

    @Mack says:
    June 14, 2010 at 4:10 am

    James used to provide moderation comment to slow things down a bit, also the paging system is a total pain, as Ducky has demonstrated, since important posts get shovelled off the page.

    Time will tell surely some of the regular team will just give up, and only pay visits to recommend our side.

    manonthemoor 13 June 19:34

  301. Mack says:

    Someone has just copied and pasted an entire item from the DT to the …………….DT.Why should I ever go back to that blog? And JD has done sod all to rectify the situation after ,what is it? 2 weeks now?

  302. Green Sand says:

    O dear, could this possibly be true?

    The IPCC Consensus Was Phoney, Says Mike Hulme

    Hulme, Professor of Climate Change in the School of Environmental Sciences at the University of East Anglia – the university of Climategate fame

    “The UN’s Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change misled the press and public into believing that thousands of scientists backed its claims on manmade global warming, according to Mike Hulme, a prominent climate scientist and IPCC insider. The actual number of scientists who backed that claim was “only a few dozen experts,” he states in a paper forProgress in Physical Geography, co-authored with student Martin Mahony.”

  303. Green Sand says:

    Chris Huhne: Why I’m turned on by turning things off

    I must have made his day! Cos he certainly turns me off. Idealistic prat (decency dictates that I do not give you my real opinion of the ….)

  304. Walt O'Brien says:

    Greetings! Thought it would be proper to stop by and sort things out a bit.

    Congratulations on the new additions to the Ozboy clan, BTW. Sweet picture, too. Look like a pretty good thumbie and shoulder to schnooze on LOL!

    Am up to my arse in work-related stuff and really experienced a bit of toxic shock syndrome from months and months of pounded away at the keyboard over issues which, for now, have been difficult about which to implement any change (though we DID collectively kill three–count them, three– major (over 300 MWe each) wind farm projects in the MISO (Midwest Independent Systems Operator) grid back in January or so, thanks to Jimbo’s blog existing, which is one of the reasons the blog has been gelded: to prevent more productive foaling of online warhorses. As Monday, I check back in with US Department of Justice’s Anti-Trust Division relative to my filing (remember?) against IPCC and their stateside affiliates, it is helpful to have a reference point for my blogging LOL!

    Interestingly, I have found some postings which go back eons, but it takes forever to go through the current listing mechanism page by page. How about something radical at the DT, like a search engine which works by name for the blog postings? Fat bloody chance.

    As stated before, I have sorted out going into harm’s way with this particular issue, which comes down to challenging any and all forced trades in carbon offsets and environmental attributes based on the CFTC’s ruling in Feb of 2008 that makes such forced trades illegal. My view is that it is sort of giving an enema to a dead man: it can’t hurt, but it really isn’t addressing the basic problem, which is that a corrupt and dope-addled and under- (and over-) educated leadership class has run us all broke, and the last tool at their disposal to shoulder the debt onto the next generation is the carbon trading mechanism.

    MAN OF THE MOOR: Thanks very much for your archival work. I am affiliated with three unions concerned with writing (National Writers Union Local 1981 of the UAW, since 1987, and Writers Guild of America-East), and if you go to, there is a fine archive of THE LAW for working writers which states the following which you can confirm:

    1. The DT owns the right to re-publish for sale any and all postings on either an attributable or unattributable basis (if they want to use your name, they have to clear it with you first in writing). That is the contract you signed on to when you agreed to their blogging terms and conditions. Tough kitty said the lion, but that is the legal deal.

    2. You can reprint or distribute on an UNPAID basis (informational or reference) all the information you have catalogued. Newspapers are public domain. So if you want to kick the DT in the balls so hard his teeth fall out, you can do so by running a viral posting that says you can get all the source documents for their new book on global warming blogs through downloading your 75 MB indexed blog post archive.

    3. There are lots of places to store online 1 Gig or more for free of downloadable data, but I recommend Canadian providers, as theirs is the most ISP and URL holder-friendly and e-fencive (as opposed to defencive) of the national InterNet law community. You might wish to touch base with the PEN folks for recommendations for where to stash the data, though they are just the sort of communist tw*ts who made such frauds as post-normal science, Gargle-type copyright hijacking and post-modern “art” possible.

    4. Junkyard dog option for protection which is even DT but most importantly also EU proof: burn a disk and file it as documentary script supporting database with the Writers Guild of America East. Costs 22 bucks and covers you COMMERCIALLY for 10 years, renewable for an additional ten for another 22 bucks (or whatever the fee is 10 years out LOL!). Queen Ka-Moron the Last, the gutless crypto-communist wonder who won’t stand up for British Petroleum when BP did literally nothing to cause the oil spill, cannot even circumvent or gut that repository unless he is handy with a Sten gun and Molotov cocktail, which very idea is bound to bring bitter laughter to one and all (Churchill or Mac would have led the illegal commando raid themselves at age 75 if lacking staff to restrain them).

    FOR SCUD1: Here are links to technical papers which describe exactly how wind turbines if using induction generations use more power than they generate through a thing called excitation reactive losses, which is power used to energize the “permanent” magnet which isn’t so that the generator can make power in the first place.

    This is six links, so I have just deleted a “t” from each “http”. Just pour a tea, copy and paste the links into your browser, add the “t” to the URL, and enjoy!


    Click to access WindTurbineGenerators_brochure_A4_lowres_ver06.pdf

    Click to access 35353.pdf

    See real versus reactive (real minus excitation losses) output

    Click to access info_iec61400-1%7Bed3.0%7Den.pdf

    Click to access 25-725.pdf

    Click to access pap14.pdf

  305. crownarmourer says:

    As I pointed out Judy8 may actually be a deliberate ploy by the DT itself to drive up traffic to the blog as it has been abysmal of late are the moderators trolling even James d himself? Or it’s the harridan Jo Abbcess.
    Doesn’t matter so we still have trolls and they have driven away loyal followers nice going for Damien and Kate.

  306. Old Toad says:

    Mack. “JD has done sod all to rectify the situation”. We all understand your frustration, but apart from being able to have a quiet word with Damian, he has no more control over DT policy than you or I. Now with three books to finish he has a choice of either preparing blogs or trying to earn a living. Blogging is never going to keep the wolf from the door.
    In the ‘good old days’ there may have been some point in intervening or responding to trolls, but now that we have a series of diversionary ‘rats’ being released by Moonbat’s jugend-gruppe, specifically designed to get us off-topic, the exercise becomes almost pointless.
    Moonbat himself would enjoy the ‘rat’ analogy, having said that debating with James is like ‘shooting rats in a bucket’. Meanwhile, he has given up on any ‘science’ as he sits comfortably in his tora-bora cave at the Grauniad using his proxies and catamites to help him ‘ad hom’ the likes of Plimer & Monckton.

  307. Old Toad says:

    Crown. I doubt that ‘Judy8’ is ‘Ms Jo Abbess BSc’ as the latter lady actually exists, and is far too infatuated with James not to reveal herself to him.

  308. scud1 says:

    Evening chaps.
    Thank you for kind comments concerning my ‘bedtime story’…much appreciated (aw shucks) and err…Ed for reposting my potty mouthed rant over at the DT…he he, it’s still bloody there and I see it received a load of thumbs up.

    Oz…Damn fine game of rugby Saturday morning…you guys were awesome. I thought it was going to be an absolute CRU esque whitewash but in the end I thought that our boys could at least hold their heads level. Looking forward to the second test immensely.

    Green Sand
    June 14, 2010 at 5:39 am

    Thanks for the link over to the Inde’…(about as Inde’ from this prevailing libtard shite as 2 year old is from its mother)
    As JD suggests, Hulme really is a true danger to this country. I left a comment saying as much and interesting to note that they also have just switched to this infernal ‘Disqus’ system, though their log in procedure is somewhat different…I dunno, maybe as MOTM suggested earlier…it goes a lot wider than just the DT and James Delingpole.

  309. manonthemoor says:

    Welcome Walt

    Glad to see you back

    The info is useful but there may be comments from others and at present there is no rush, unless other reasons arise.

    Please keep returning here and we will see how the situation develops.

    There is an ongoing dialogue with Ozboy and he will collect a few views and possibly suggest the preferred solution.

    Without repeating everything, my comments on this blog, and the previous one explain my views .


  310. crownarmourer says:

    Walt welcome and they blocked those papers , bloomin heck why, must have been for theological reasons probably upsets Damien T’s personal belief system.

  311. Walt O'Brien says:

    manonthemoor says:
    June 14, 2010 at 7:37 am

    You’re very welcome, and I understand perfectly. Were I you, I would keep a copy of the file burned onto a separate disc and out of the computer altogether. Most people leave their Remote Procedure Call portal completely open for as long as they have MacroPlop OS software LOL!

    Please be advised this blogging does work. I would wish to check with Ozboy about his recommended mechanism for multilinking this blog to get us out there.

    BTW, The End is on track for New York State’s infinite corruption and its associated dope-induced Grabbit Rabbit syndrome. As of tomorrow, the State cannot cover state employee cheques, welfare cheques, unemployment cheques, and food stamp cheques (so I suppose they also cannot cover welfare tramp rent and utilities so that spells the end of both the dole monkey “war widows” and their “heroes’ orphans,” and Section 8 scumlords–all of whom are greentards, Ku Klux Klimaters and socialist al-Queda clones– for this state, hopefully).

    Of course, tomorrow is the holiday Flag Day LOL! As in “flag that cheque,” no doubt. If this keeps up, the only people left in New York State will be New Yorkers, all fifty or sixty of them. (The rest were chased out decades ago).

  312. Morning/evening all,

    Once again, all the good stuff happens while I’m asleep on this side of the planet…

    Walt, welcome! So good to see you here. FYI 5+ hyperlinks in a post and it’s held over for moderation. Feel free to hang out here whenever you’re so inclined.

    MOTM, per our correspondence, I believe Walt’s post covers all the legal bases. I’ll look at a way for you all to converse privately when you choose, without me having to forward e-mail addresses about.

    Noidea, wonderful drama you’ve penned. Gees, there’s some writing talent here. Hmmm……

    In the ladies’ singles event, I too followed the—erm—stoush (any number of alternative and highly politically incorrect expressions spring to mind—I respect msher too much to use any of them) at the DT, between msher and the new troll on the block, straight-sets victory though it may have been. I accept and fully understand msher’s explanation (June 11, 2010 at 1:12 pm above) why she doesn’t want to spend too much time over here; her acumen and insight are more than welcome here at LibertyGibbert however, whenever she sees fit. Scud’s right though: the presence of trolls over there serves only to distract from the topic at hand i.e., your estimably venal Mr. Huhne. Deliberate ploy?

    Possibly. I agree with you, the new troll is almost certainly not the alarming Ms Abbess (B.Sc.). Probably some young student, filled with righteous fervour and stumbling across one of those How to aid The Cause by debating with deniers websites. Sigh. I suppose JD as a punching bag is becoming a bit old, and the DT stalwarts need someone new to castig8.

    I’ll be popping in and out over the next few hours. Enjoy!

  313. crownarmourer says:

    Walt I assume New York state is overwhelmingly Democrat then, I’m sure the Federal government will bail them out. Also why haven’t the ratings agencies put them on junk bond status I bet they will be on AAA plus even if they are broke.

  314. scud1 says:

    Walt my man…damned good to hear from you buddy!
    I shall explore your kindly enclosed links forthwith…think we may definitely be on to something. Done a little more digging and sure enough all large (1.5MW up) WT generators appear to be of the ‘asynchronous’ type…yes indeed, an external power source is required to ‘excite’ the magnetic fields throughout operation…who pays for this? Could it just possibly be us? …I’d be very, very shocked if it was!
    Later Walt…please post when you can, we’ve all missed ’em very much.

  315. manonthemoor says:

    @Walt O’Brien says:
    June 14, 2010 at 8:06 am

    Talking of holidays I have two weeks camping coming up soon, so decisions are not required soon.

    Rest assured there is more than one lifeboat, but of course A10 ‘s can possibly do a lot of damage.

    In say 3 weeks time things could yet be very different. ‘A week is a long time as they say in politics’ . And of course we recognise 3 weeks is an eternity.

  316. manonthemoor says:

    l@ibertygibbert says:
    June 14, 2010 at 8:18 am

    Good morning ozboy, hope the ozboy family had a reasonable night.

    As you can see above, my current priority is holiday shaped.

    I will provide you with accurate dates, and if anything of import arises a summary on my return would be appreciated. There yet may be people who can add up out there.

    Time for bed now will sign in, in the morning.
    manonthemoor 13 June 23:37

  317. Walt O'Brien says:

    Hi, Ozboy. Good to be back. I needed and need to detoxify from the DT routine, as it goes nowhere a lot of the time, and I can’t retire just yet LOL! My workload is insane, as usual. Can’t fight WW III at the same time. The DT is not worth it: if they peel off a percentage of the revenue for us as part of their marketing team, fine, otherwise, Sayonara to JD. We paid his bills not vice versa. We generated ad revenue. Their ad-click guy can tell us EXACTLY how much for that particular blog sequence. Pathetic.

    Crownarmourer @June 14, 2010 at 8:20 am

    That is being slapped down by the Republicans (again for the second time in a month) in Congress even as I write this. This applies also to 32 other states, of which Tennessee is not numbered, as it is fiscally sound, so probably you can expect yet another 10 zillion unemployed to migrate to your state :>(.

    Having been through several stage-managed dramas of this sort and in several countries in addition to the USA, they could well have played this out in either the preceding winter or held things off until the coming one, but I rather suspect Mr. Obama’s strategy to forestall losing power is to force riots and thus martial law onto the USA—just in time for the November Congressional campaign LOL! He learned a lot from Africa. Our best best is for General Petraeus to do a General Toure of Mail bit when things get too bad, but I am not holding my breath.

    Americans go through this every fifty years like clockwork. Europeans have world wars, we have “civil disturbances.” In terms of total body counts we spread our deaths over a broader time base according to different recording criteria. I am sure you never heard of Matawan or the floods and riots of 1927 in New Orleans, nor of the floods and riots in New England the same year (principally Vermont and New Hampshire) nor about the Palmer raids, nor the Everett Massacre, etc., etc., nor of leftist death squads hunting down employment contractors in New Jersey, NYC and southeastern New York.

    Scud1, all communities who do not want wind farms have to do is sue for their percentage of revenues according to conventional community cuts of the gross for power plant operation. This is typically set at 2-5% of the gross plus fair market for rental/lease of the ground the wind turbines stand on. A stroke of the eminent domain pen, and bingo! that community is out of the Depression with one piece of paper. It doesn’t matter who owns the property: all infrastructure is government property, period. Full stop. Local factories would have been glad to provide free or low-cost power as byproduct to their operations when times were good but for that legal fact. This is why you saw so much energy going into the atmosphere back in the day. If you are stupid enough to give to the community, you are stupid enough to lose it all, if you are a business. That’s how communitarians do business.

    MOTM: Let me know what you need and it is done.

  318. Walt O'Brien says:

    As long as we are in the agitation business, we all need a nom de guerre and a propaganda routine.

    Here is my official portrait painting of me as Dear Leader, which was also an education in how to do a commercial grade portrait in under 20 minutes painting in acrylic over a black and white printout of a photo. (The rocket took longer than painting over the printout of the photo). This should tell you how “Look,” “Time,” “Life,” “Saturday Evening Post,” and most of the ad agencies of the day did those nifty paintings that are so hard to duplicate LOL! Well, hey, they had deadlines to meet.

    Suitable for framing or wrapping dead fish in. You must obey me, worthless Earthlings!!

    I keep getting an https port 443 TCP hack from every time I come to a blog space anywhere on the net LOL! (I just block the beggars and go my merrie waye). So I am I guess officially tracked. Bwahahahaha! All they have to do is give me a call to find out waddup wif me. I’ll buy coffee.

  319. crownarmourer says:

    Ah that is nothing we have had two shifty guys parked outside our house once or twice, their not very bright. Shifty as not crooks, well crooks but in the official sense.

  320. izen says:

    @ noidea
    First, a round of applause for the story, love the style, (Asimove, Foundation and empire?) and await the next installment eagerly.

    Second, the long view of terrestrial climate is a complex subject, Timescales are the big issue, solar variation is small in the 1k year period which drives the Milankovitch cycles, about the same magnitude as the recent CO2 increase energy change. But is increasing by around 10% per billion years.
    The other crucial but slow timescale factor is the distribution of land and oceans.

    Because the Earth gets more solar energy at the equator than it can emit (it would have to be well above the boiling point of water to have the emission spectra to emit as much energy as it receives) and the poles emit far more energy than they receive, there has to be a way of transporting energy from the equator to the poles.
    The equator is much cooler, and the poles much warmer than they ‘should’ be. Cf the moon.

    The short-term process is by evaporation of equatorial water and the condenstaion of that water and its freezing to the higher latitudes.
    But the stability and overall temperature range of the globe depends on ocean currents, and the impact of the milankovitch cycles depends on the asymetry in land area between the North and South hemispheres. Ocean currents distribute energy from equator to poles over a few centuries, within the 1kyr timescale of solar changes.
    Whether the poles are land or ocean, and how easily an ocean current can be established between the equator and the poles has a profound effect on the global climate.
    All of these changes are in the 10million year plus timescale.

    At the risk of appearing to endorse Lovelock’s Gaia nonsense, there are ‘homeostatic’ feedbacks that have kept the terrestrial climate in one of two stable states. Either the warm regieme of the Jurrasic, or the cold glacial periods like the present. The colder regime seems to be less stable than the warm. It is much more variable, and very cold conditions with extensive ice-sheets seems to be subject to an inherent instability. It is always when glacial conditions reach a maximum that they flip rapidly to a rapid melt and a warmer state. They rarely seem to slowly warm, the rate of change is always faster than the cooling rates seen.

    That CO2 level changes are a component in all this is unequivical given the radiative physics of CO2 and its variation in relation to past climate. It is usually a reactive change, but it can increase much more rapidly than it can decrease. Because of the solubility/buffering effects of the oceans, the atmospheric CO2 can vary significantly well within 1kyr, but long-term sequestration of a carbon addition to the active/biological carbon cycle is much slower. The balance between geological weathering and formation of limestones is a slow process.

    Don’t know if that does much to help in the issues you and David are looking at in paleoclimate. The bottom line is rather like ‘follow the money’ in politics.
    In science it is usually follow the ENERGY.
    The Earth gets the same solar energy input as the moon. The moon, despite that recent bit of nonsense, is very close to the Stefan-Boltzmann prediction with only a minor correction for the heat capacity of the surface rock.
    The Earth is clearly very different. How it redistributes the solar energy to reduce the equator/pole temperature differential, and how the surface emissions are modified by an atmopshere almost opaque to the spectra of energy the surface emits are the basis of the difference in climate between the Earth and the moon.

    I was amused to see that scud(?) posted this link –

    Which uses the research we discussed earlier to generate yet another headline, but with a different ‘spin’.
    No mention that the research is an argument based partly on computer models for a re-calibration of O18 isotope data to temperature in ice-cores, and any claims you can make from it about past temperatures depend on the acceptance of the validity of that re-calibration…
    And while there may be evidence from the vostok ice core for a MWP, that it was GLOBALLY warmer or synchronous, the evidence favours a warm N. hemisphere after a S hemisphere peak, the usual see-saw pattern, is certainly not derivable from the vostok data.
    That after all only shows the local temperatures at vostok at the time the ice/snow was deposited.
    The claim that it may have been warmer in the 1950s in Antarctica than at present is interesting. There is some evidence that the increasec intensity of the polar vortex is the result of the effect of CFC induced ozone depletion. The local loss of a potent GHG has cooled the Antarctic continent. Thomas Midgley strikes again!

    I had heard of Midgley, the thrice cursed/jinxed scientist, but not Clare Patterson. Spent an interesting time reading up on him. Yes, the problems with industry demanding absolute certainty, unambiguous data and delaying action on the grounds that there were still ‘doubts’ about the science strikes a chord….
    Interesting that in both cases, of lead and CFC’s, the abandonment was not made when the science was beyond doubt, but when industrial alternatives where available.

  321. crownarmourer says:

    As if I have anything to hide do not attend any political meetings or belong to any organizations I do not donate any money to any party. The only association to anybody is my father in law and you are reading this NSA firstly try viagra it may help with your little problem and secondly my father in law is so well connected you may wish to start packing up to move out of your office as your being transferred to Alaska.

  322. Walt O'Brien says:


    Those guys won’t like my backup inventory of rockets, either, especially where they are sized to fit, approximately. That would solve their little problem, too. I think where they are at already is their punishment for having done something else equally meritorious and embarrassing to their employers.

    Izen, you should dig a bit deeper into the older archives, if you have access, for a gander at and a think on Noidea’s poetry. That really is first rate stuff, too.

    Anyway, I will keep everyone posted on the routine with the Justice Department tomorrow.

    Just so you know, if you are in the States, because there are five –count them, five—major congressional bills related to this imbecilic non-issue, none of which will be acted on to one effect or the other until after January 2011, at the latest, over 40 billion US in new power plant construction is on hold, paying interest, with no bang to cover the float of the funds, not counting nuke. That represents at least 250,000 jobs directly on idle, and maybe 750,000-1.5 million follow-on indirect jobs on hold, too.

    PLUS the entire offshore drilling industry and its support community –100,000 jobs, maybe?–plus there are 435 billion US in ARRA “bailout” funds which nobody wants to borrow and thereby pay extortionate Federal interest on which is sitting on the floor. Over half the money allocated in the spring and summer of 2008 by President George W. Bush (you remember, the real one) for the bailout of the economy has not even been used yet. What year is this, please? What time of year is this, please?

  323. msher says:

    libertygibbert @8:18 am

    Thanks for the welcome. Yeah, I still think that as long as James speaks publicly and his blog is widely disseminated through the Anglosphere, there is a purpose in posting there. I sympathize with the DT. I think they made an extensive format change that they thought is an upgrade and would be embraced by their commenters. They didn’t expect the reaction they have had.

    Re politically incorrect expressions: I know you were joking, but as I have written before, I have never been trying to set myself up as an arbiter of taste or manners, except to the point I could convince others that a loftier tone and/or more measured/careful posts would be more strategic on a blog widely disseminated and read through the Anglosphere. That concern doesn’t arise here – until you are widely disseminated and read throughout the Anglosphere!

    Re battle with Judy8: That was to 1) peg what was wrong with her, and 2) just an excuse to write about conspiracies, which is something I want to explore. (See my post to manofthemoor below.) What was wrong with her, obviously, is that she knows nothing at all about her subject. Odd that someone would wade into the lions’ den (James’ blog) to attack when they know nothing at all about their subject. Did she think we wouldn’t notice?

    I realize I am at odds with everyone else about whether battles with trolls are distracting. To me, no if they have content/substance; and yes very, if they don’t. In threads that aren’t otherwise triggering profound comment about the blogger’s article, if the interaction between warmist/troll and skeptic generates content relevant to AGW, I think that is as valid of vehicle for substance/content as any. More on that in my post to Old Toad, below.

    Hope your new’un is doing well and you are getting some sleep.



    You wrote on James’ blog:

    “we have to spend so much time to justify the anti-AGW position.”

    I think skeptics should no longer “justify” the anti-AGW position but rather use what we know about the AGW position as a offensive weapon in this ideological war. For example: if the American public understood that the cap and trade proposed here is expressly and directly aimed at making electricity more expensive, I think the proponents of cap and trade would literally be tarred and feathered. Debate about the science would be considered besides the point.

    Along the same lines, “conspiracy” is something we should be able to use as an offensive weapon. There is demonstrably an AGW political agenda . We can demonstrate that agenda from the public statements and writings and publicly visible activities of the proponents. And there is demonstrably a concerted supranational effort to implement the AGW agenda – whether or not it is labeled a “conspiracy.” The participants publicly trumpet at least some of their efforts and successes. We can talk about what they publicly say and do without having to get into supposition about shadowy events and meetings which we can’t prove. But skeptics generally feel it necessary to stay away from “conspiracy” because of fear of being branded a nut. We should figure out how to write on “conspiracies” without sounding reckless or crazy. I have been writing posts for a while to see if I can get political “conspiracies” down right. I don’t think I have it nailed yet. I wish others would also write on the subject. (captainsherlock writes on financial and criminal conspiracies, not political conspiracies.)


    Old Toad @7:12 pm

    “Battles” with warmists/trolls often afford the opportunity to work on particular ideas and/or information. If a “battle” with a warmist/troll succeeds in creating substantive posts on both sides, I don’t think it is a waste. In fact, adversary interactions often serve to sharpen up content and make it better.

    I don’t think Judy8 or the reactions to her diverted any discussion of James’ article that would have otherwise occurred. There doesn’t seem to be exciting/galvinizing new news at this point for James’ to write about and hence there is a paucity of comment about the articles themselves. No one’s fault. And even if people might have had profound comments on the article, the format is now somewhat of a deterrent.

    Given how strongly everyone else feels about interactions with trolls, I will try to be more careful about keeping my such interactions to times when there is not other exciting/galvinzing news in James’ article.

    “I do not donate any money to any party.”

    Didn’t we once peg you as a charter member of the not-for-profit “Enemies of the Earth?”

  324. crownarmourer says:

    msher sacrificing the souls of the unworthy to the old one himself Cthulhu is not a financial donation it is more of an act of charity. You shall be on the list of to be eaten last.

  325. crownarmourer says:

    msher seriously the NSA does not read everyones emails or postings but they do pick up on keywords etc so occasionally I mess with them by triggering those words and insult them childish but fun. Never mention the POTUS and an Abraham Lincoln scenario unless you want attention. I have had my phone tapped though, you can tell there is strange clicking noise in the background.

  326. crownarmourer says:

    msher the one time it was tapped was just before they raided someones apartment in my apartment complex for drugs so it wasn’t personal, illegal though on the tappers part as I’m sure they were monitoring everyone. Really upscale complex but then again drug dealers have money.

  327. crownarmourer says:

    Walt the POTUS is trying to make BP pay for the idled exploration and new production in the gulf he ordered idled, well good luck to him on that one they may be responsible for cleanup and damages he’s out of luck on that one unless he does a Chavez. Then it’s all out war between the EU and the USA on seizing assets and nationalizing other peoples companies a war nobody wins but lots of lost jobs.

  328. crownarmourer says:

    msher as to Judy8 whom ever that is I’m sure it’s an old troll back to haunt everyone but weirdly was on Damien T’s blog as well which is religious and is playing a weird game of not actually arguing anything but playing by the socialist playbook to denigrate your enemies.

  329. NoIdea says:

    Hiya folks.

    Izen, thank you for the compliment, to be compared to one of the greats, this is an accolade I fear I shall fall short of. It does however help fuel the impetus to continue.

    I am yet again grateful to you for writing such a clear concise synopsis. I found the standard one point of contention, and yet this was written in a way that did not grate my nerves, merely raised an eyebrow.

    I find in my delving though the murky historical gloom of corporate industry, that the alternatives are often available even before the choice is taken to go the dangerous way.
    Midgley had discovered a far safer and better method of increasing the octane rating (its anti-knock properties) of petrol before he discovered the tetraethyl lead solution (they called it ethyl, just to confuse the issue?)
    From the page at

    By 1917 Kettering and his staff had trained their octane-boosting sights on ethyl alcohol, also known as grain alcohol (the kind you drink), power alcohol or ethanol. In tests supervised by Kettering and Midgley for the Army Air Corps at Wright Field in Dayton, Ohio, researchers concluded that alcohols were among the best antiknock fuels but were not ideal for aircraft engines unless used as an additive, in a blend with gasoline. This undoubtedly led Kettering to concur with an April 13, 1918, Scientific American report: “It is now definitely established that alcohol can be blended with gasoline to produce a suitable motor fuel.”
    Ethanol made a lot of sense to a practical Ohio farm boy like Kettering. It was renewable, made from surplus crops and crop waste, and nontoxic. It delivered higher octane than gasoline (though it contained less power per gallon), and it burned more cleanly. By 1920, as Kettering was aware, a US Naval Committee had concluded that alcohol-gasoline blends “withstand high compression without producing knock.”
    In October 1921, less than two months before he hatched leaded gasoline, Thomas Midgley drove a high-compression-engined car from Dayton to a meeting of the Society of Automotive Engineers in Indianapolis, using a gasoline-ethanol blended fuel containing 30 percent alcohol. “Alcohol,” he told the assembled engineers, “has tremendous advantages and minor disadvantages.” The benefits included “clean burning and freedom from any carbon deposit…[and] tremendously high compression under which alcohol will operate without knocking…. Because of the possible high compression, the available horsepower is much greater with alcohol than with gasoline.”

    It seems they knew the dangers of lead, they knew the benefits of alcohol; they chose lead purely as they could make money from it.

    From the corporation’s perspective, however, the problems with ethyl alcohol were ultimately insurmountable and rather basic. GM couldn’t dictate an infrastructure that could supply ethanol in the volumes that might be required. Equally troubling, any idiot with a still could make it at home, and in those days, many did. And ethanol, unlike TEL, couldn’t be patented; it offered no profits for GM. Moreover, the oil companies hated it, a powerful disincentive for the fledgling GM, which was loath to jeopardize relations with these mighty power brokers. Surely the du Pont family’s growing interest in oil and oil fields, as it branched out from its gunpowder roots into the oil-dependent chemical business, weighed on many GM directors’ minds.

    I have found suggestions that it was GM, Standard and Du Pont that helped finance the prohibition of alcohol (I cannot find any links at the moment, I will keep searching)
    This would appear to match their fierce hatred of alcohol. (And hemp)
    The timeline would appear to match nicely, as alcohol became a threat to their profits, they got it banned. As hemp became a threat to their profits, they got it banned.
    They still sell leaded petrol all over the third world. Unfortunately it seems we share their air.
    I have not studied the CFC side of things yet. It is on my “to do” list.
    Will I ever get this list to shrink?

  330. izen says:

    @ noidea
    Ethanol is STILL problematic as a (percentage) of transport fuel.
    It requires modification, and modifiable, engines. It absorbs water unless stored hermetically, the resulting water content of the fuel causes problems.
    And as the recent effort to promote biofuels and Brazil shows, making enough ‘eats’ into food crops

  331. NoIdea says:

    @ msher on June 14, 2010 at 3:01 pm
    I am a great fan of conspiracy theories. I try and keep up with them all; there appear to be new fantastic ones popping so fast as to make this impossible.
    One of my favorites at the moment is that Einstein was set up to be purely a disruptive force against the ideas and theories of Tesla. There are a few theories that approach this from slightly different perspectives.
    Sometimes you find some wise words in unusual off beat places. This site is worth a read.
    I lifted this last section from that blog, it is powerful and poetic.
    It looks like Neil Kramer has lots of other interesting bits to see as well.
    Perceive Control System equations. Identify public figures who repeatedly use buzzwords like diversity, education, the economy and terrorism. Contemplate the actual meaning of this distorted Orwellian Doublethink within the context of Control System mechanisms (as a pose to real-world references). Here are a few obvious examples.

    DIVERSITY = Standardization
    CHOICE = No Choice
    EDUCATION = Conditioning
    DEFENCE = War
    ECONOMY = Slavery
    TERRORISM = Opposition
    CULTURE = Approved Self Expression
    HEALTH = Illness
    MEDICINE = Poison
    SUCCESS = Failure
    FREEDOM = Dependence

    Once you become cognisant of the equations, whenever you hear the first part of the equation, you can immediately balance it with the real message. This renders political speeches and mainstream journalism comically impotent. An auditory equivalent of donning the ‘They Live’ shades.

    The dissonance lifts and we can focus on being who we actually are, rather than getting lost in the mouldy NWO puppet show.
    Ultimately, the Control System knows its influence is waning. The grip loosens and the game nears its end. We are witnessing the final spasms of the beast. The magnificent human spirit has been unduly suppressed over the last few millennia. Now that time is over. We ascend once more. Reject their fake media hype and stop using their corporate services. Discard their fear memes and erase their counterfeit history. Extricate yourself from their politics and laugh at their sinister melodramas. They hate that most of all – not being taken seriously. From the Control System’s perspective, there is no greater fusion of terrifying characteristics in a human being than authenticity, humour, creativity, sovereignity, defiance and love.

    Let us reframe what it is to be human within our own consciousness. Let us bring to mind our own limitless creativity, our unassailable spirit and our natural ascendant trajectory. These are our elegant weapons – supreme creational fractals that dissolve that which we no longer wish to manifest. Take command of your beingness in this world and let it unfold deeply and gracefully. This is real backbone. Imagination is the key. We are both the dreamer and the dream. We make it. Let us become it.

    @ izen on June 14, 2010 at 5:12 pm
    There are inherent health and safety problems it seems with all fuels. The manufacture, transportation and storage each have their own special risks. The concept of making fuel on demand from water sounds like dream, and there are plenty still chasing that dream.
    Was Stanley Meyer just another hoaxer, or just another victim of big oil?
    Would the burning of hydrogen and oxygen in a nitrogen rich atmosphere result in any nitric acid type things happening?
    Acetone is an octane booster; I have no clue as to how it is made or from what.
    Water injection is (or was 10 years ago, I have not been keeping up) common practice in top end engine tuning, why is water such a problem in fuel?


  332. Old Toad says:

    msher. Terriers are programmed to chase rats, so there is no point my suggesting that they should stop, just so long as we do not lose sight of the elephant in the room. We have to thank Amerlogue for frequently reminding us what form the elephant takes, ie that we are up against the greatest scientific scam ever perpetrated.
    However if all the scientific refutation takes place here and JD’s blog is reduced to rat chasing then Monbiot, and those who do not wish the blog well,will have won.
    With ‘Coward in the Woods’, ‘Climategate’ and this third book to write, James will have less and less time to ‘police’ or even scan the relevant blogs. It is therefore increasingly up to the ‘Team’ to fight the good fight.

  333. manonthemoor says:

    Good morning All

    I have just been catching up on the overnight posts.

    I see we are in great heart with good contributions.

    The DT blog has lost its drive and appeal in my book, but an occasional salvo is always worthwhile.

    I understand the msher point about trolls, and if she is able to continues the dialogue (fight) with the likes of Judy8, that effort goes to diminish the credibility of that blog .

    However we must use the opportunity at ALL times, to publish the existence and aims of this forum, both on the JD blogs and others. I made a post on the Chris Booker site inviting a commenter (fibogel) with special knowledge on coal extraction/liquidation techniques at 2.02pm yesterday.

    I am delighted to see the return of Walt and his presence will do much to enhance this blog and in particular encourage others to return to the team. I also take the point made by Walt that we need recognition and links by other groups, WUWT etc.

    We have the drive, we have the objective and we now have the setup to replace the DT blog. I am sure our continued efforts along present lines will gain the credibility and recognition we seek.

    I will post a couple of thoughts for Ozboy and others later today.

    manonthemoor 14 June 9:49

  334. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Evening all,

    El Commandante Bazooka Brains……..Hail!

    Good to hear from you Walt, congrats on your MISO action and good luck on Monday.
    Your perspective on the issues in question has been missed and it’s good to hear from you again.
    Bazooka Brains eh? As a nom de guerre, it certainly signifies you mean business.
    Blackswan? Mmm. Sounds a bit woossie to me now that it seems “the gloves are off” on AGW. I’ll have to think of something else. As you say, gelding the DT/JD blog is one thing, but it did in fact sire the likes of Ozboy (obviously a great sire himself), Rastech and Orkneylad to respond in kind. While there is great potential for a wealth of information to emerge here, there simply isn’t the exposure a publication like the DT can deliver.

    @ msher June 14, 2010 at 3:01 pm

    You did a great slice-and-dice job on Judy8what? on JD’s blog. I agree with your idea that we should turn the AGW propaganda itself into an offensive weapon against them and it’s the DT that will afford the necessary exposure. I admire your measured ability to engage these people, and I agree with Old Toad that they shouldn’t detract from that AGW elephant – although should that be woolly mammoth now that people like Bilderberg have Global Cooling on their agenda.
    I agree that using the word “conspiracy” today invites nothing but derision and dismissive responses, but how else can one describe world govts, bureaucracies, corporations, educators and the MSM all jostling for room on the AGW gravy train?
    Only two words came to mind… they are all working for a “Common Purpose”. Now gee, where have I heard that before?

    @ NoIdea

    I seem to learn something from all your posts. Thank you. Sometimes “experts”, so immersed in their jargon and technicalities, become almost incomprehensible to the average person, but you have the unique gift of picking the juiciest plums from the pudding and generously offering them to others to share. Your work is appreciated.

  335. msher says:

    Old Toad @5:58 pm

    “msher. Terriers are programmed to chase rats, so there is no point my suggesting that they should stop”

    If you are going to call me a dog, please make it something really impressive, like a Great Dane or giant schnauzer.

    ” just so long as we do not lose sight of the elephant in the room. We have to thank Amerlogue for frequently reminding us what form the elephant takes, ie that we are up against the greatest scientific scam ever perpetrated.”

    I write about the political/economic scam being perpetrated. The “science” is being used – its whole purpose is – to sell the political/economic scam.

    You seem to be suggesting that writing about the political/economic scam is irrelevant and that posts about the politics/economics are an unworthy diversion that reduces a blog. I would suggest that focusing only on the science misses the point.

  336. Evening folks,

    I’m only sticking my head in briefly; some insightful posts from you recently. I’ll have a little more time after tomorrow, but I will post briefly again in about 8 hours.

    Best to all,


  337. manonthemoor says:

    @msher says:
    June 14, 2010 at 8:55 pm

    I support your comment about politics/economic

    To me it is ALL about power, politics and money.

    The scientific case needs to be argued and so far we are winning.

    The decisions by the DT may be well intentioned, BUT there may also be powerful forces at work, of which we are not aware.

    I seem to remember Pointman was particularly adept at recognising such influences.

    manonthemoor 14 June 12:34

  338. izen says:

    Those of you still following the JD/DT blog may have noticed an exchange between Skeptic and RR over ground/satellite data.

    Satellite data has undergone some correction, the drift of satellites in orbit is unpredictable and affe3cts the readings they take due to timing/angle variations.

    The UAH/Spencer/Christy record has undergone the MOST correction, most notably a few years back when it showed significantly LESS warming than the ground record and other satellite data processing sources. When they finally published their correction methods, others pointed out that for several years they had been SUBTRACTING a correction term they should have been adding.

    Since then the UAH record has been pretty much in agreement with the rest of the instrumental record.

    On the subject of ground station bias, UHI effects etc, there has been an analysis of the trend difference between the ‘bad’ stations identified by WUWT and the ‘good’ stations.
    The ‘bad’ urban stations show LESS cooling in the raw data than the rural ‘good’ ones.

    That the US data shows little trend, but considerable variation is largely due to the high temperatures reached in the lower 48 during the 30s-40s.
    But that is a local effect and not reflected in the global data. While the US was enjoying temperatures almost as warm as the present back in the early 40s, N Europe was experiencing some of the coldest winters on record.

    Globally the trend is unequivocal, and this May was yet again warmer than any previous may in the instrumental record – it equaled the previous record-holder, 1998 when there was a very powerful El NIno and an active solar cycle, while the present has a weak/neutral PDO and a quiet sun.

  339. Old Toad says:

    Msher. I have always admired your posts on JD’s blog and have cheered you on from the sidelines.(I wasn’t able to post on the old format). I did not particularly have anyone of the ‘team’ in mind when I mentioned ‘terriers’ and ‘rats’, so there was nothing personal. We have all gone after a juicy ‘troll/rat’ when it made its appearance and ‘Judy/8’ was a particularly inviting one, with its ignorance of science, and ‘I’m not that sort girl’ approach. A Terrier seemed a more appropriate canine to use, as Great Danes have problems down rat-holes and may not be ideal where elephants are concerned.
    The JD blog had ground to a halt this lunchtime, whilst this one was still active, which shows that there is greater need than ever for the message to be got over. Thank goodness James has just posted another one, on Thatcher the well known Warmist/Sceptic (dependent on how you see her). When the first inane Monbiot-inspired post surfaces I’ve no doubt we shall all, Terriers, Great Danes and Schnautzers, be after it, as long as we stay aware as to why such a diversion was planted.

  340. Walt O'Brien says:

    Greetings. Just so interested parties understand the mechanics of how NY state has been fighting wind power projects effectively which are uneconomic which still keeping an iron in the fire for the very, very few properly laid out wind enterprises which still depend on 90% capacity 90% of the time provided by either coal, gas turbines or nuke power, I refer you to this very clear summation of how carbon fraud-based wind enterprises routinely attempt to bludgeon their way into the grid in clear violation of 125 years of scrupulous and diligent public administration of the public interest by publicly-elected officials:

    My victory over the MISO-related windfarm app’s was based on this correspondence, which I posted at the DT in December 2009 along with the Justice Department complaint form, which was also filed then. In Feb 2010 all three of the wind farm jobs in MISO’s grid had their permit app’s rejected by the host electric utilities for “undisclosed reasons.”

    That’s how it works. If you need to pop a renewables project with your trusty digital pen, that is how it is done with no drama and no casualties. That’s why I bother to post to blogs.

    I share msher1’s focus on the realities of social and political manipulation to the extent I do not lend any credence to the science to one effect or the other, as regardless of which side is correct, the conduct of the AGW community is totally inappropriate, anti-democratic, totalitarian and “we know what’s best for you” FDR-era Seven Sisters women’s college graduate silver-spoon lorgnette-using condescending BS which leans on my Big Red Button with both elbows. Very much respect the technical discussions, as some of them are quite astute though a bit quaint in their non-players’ naivete (of course you get clouds of nitric acid when you burn hydrogen, you did in high school when you popped off the electrolysis generated hydrogen in a test tube in Honours chemistry class, if you went to high school in the USA in the late 1960’s; and alcohol was dropped as fuel as it eats steel and rubber and plastics for lunch, burps and asks for more; it still does. It is uneconomic then and is now for that reason principally. Ask a trucker who was stupid enough to go for the grants and subsidies for engine conversion to run on biofuel. Um, alcohol refining is damned dangerous, too, more so than conventional refining of ethanol from petroleum products). They are not really relevant to what is the problem we are –or at least I am– addressing, which is private-sector communitarian and skipdebt New Age scofflaw anti-constitutional government bullying and money-robbing in the name of and over “emergencies” both real and fictitious.

  341. Amerloque says:

    Hello All !

    The comments below, taken together, have caused me to think quite a bit about this site and the late Daily Telegraph blogs. In the interests of brevity I’ve left off the posters names; I apologize to each of them.
    _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
    Opposition with real arguments are welcome of course we agree to disagree sort of attitude. So nobody post a novel unless it is relevant.
    _ _ _ _ _
    If not, when people have really good material, shouldn’t they post it both places? But even if they don’t, is that a “betrayal” such as to merit people commenting on a blog competing with the one that James has obviously spent a lot of time building?
    _ _ _ _ _
    The propaganda from him and others gets prominence until their garbage slips off the page, any response has to be very fast as the ‘visitors ‘ to the site are not there to enjoy the banter, just to read swiftly and pass on. The responses get quickly pushed off the page too and this can lead to warmist rubbish getting a free ride.
    _ _ _ _ _
    I got an E mail notification for a reply from mr Duckham. But it does’nt seem to be on the DT forum……does that mean he got censored? Or is it a technical glitch….. How am I supposed to disagree with him? By E mail.
    _ _ _ _ _
    What are they playing at? As we know, information today is power. Information is a high-priced commodity, bought and sold around the world for all manner of marketing and other nefarious purposes.
    _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

    After mulling over the above and lurking and reading far too many posts on the new DT blogs, I think it’s clear that they are as dead as the proverbial door nail, as most of us have seen. For the moment, I’m not going to post there with any hopes of starting up a substantive debate on the “merits” of AGW. Certainly members of our team are there in the trenches fighting the good fight against the one and several tenacious trolls who have magically appeared. My “contribution”, if such as it is, to these discussions on the DT blog has been simply to “recommend” our team’s substantive postings. Probably all of us should be doing that when we visit. After all, cream rises. (grin)

    I do see that Igonikon Jack’s posts over there contain far fewer carriage-returns, so his text is far more readable. Since correlation is not causality, though, one cannot assert that his sudden clarity has anything to do with the new DT format. (wide grin)

    The warmist vs rejectionist (not “denier” !) debate has moved here. Calmly, reasonably, politely, each of us informs, opines and contradicts, respecting the others’ points of view. This is how a blog should be working ! Thank you to Ozboy for allowing us to land here – I never thought I’d be “visiting” a private home in the Antipodes to discuss AGW. (grin)

    The fair-play polite debate hasn’t been working on the DT for quite a while, now, as we’ve all seen. In addition, there’s little reason to assume that any return to the status quo ante is in the cards, given the lack of reaction to (our) complaints. Too, I was particularly disappointed by JD’s acknowledgment of all this as evidenced by his comments in the “Land Mines” post.

    A major problem over on the DT is that idiotic 25 comment- per-page limit. A post containing information that has taken valuable time to research and write can be pushed off the front page in a matter of seconds: it only needs one or two trolls to add comments (not using the reply function, of course … ) to push such interesting posts into DT informatic oblivion. Like you, I find that scrolling through several hundred entries on a page by page basis is terribly time-consuming and frustrating, the latter because some people reply to a post while others enter a new post, and because others have nothing to say. (grin)

    Some posters here, myself included, have recommended that the “reply” function not be used, so as to facilitate browsing as much as possible. It’s probably a good rule of thumb for the team here, just as it’s definitely a good idea to ‘recommend” team members’ posts on the DT. (grin) .

    This whole business of non-disappearing posts is crucial to the success of any blog. One has only to look at the DT today, compared to the DT of the past, to be convinced of that. What I recommend – perhaps another rule of thumb, too – is that we post our ‘good’ messages, those that are worthy of keeping, in two venues, for the moment: here first, and on the DT second. That means concretely that if the powers-that-be at the DT do decide to kill all the comments once again, or if their software “crashes”(grin), none of us will be left hanging. When one thinks of the thousands of man (and woman !) hours that readers spent researching, constructing and typing in useful/humorous entries … when one thinks that the vast majority of comments were entered in good faith, with a genuine desire to inform, comment and/or entertain … when one thinks that one of the more serious (dangerous ?) MSM rebuttals of AGW (Delingpole, Booker) have been destroyed ….

    It’s probably a very good idea to advertise this blog on the DT blog(s), as several here have pointed out, to separate the wheat from the chaff: if we build it, they will come. Right ?

    I won’t be posting on the DT for the foreseeable future. Here, yes, if Ozboy keeps the welcome mat out …

    Enough for now. I’m happy to see the return of scud, walt and others.

    Now is not the time to let up !

    Amerloque 20100613 16h00 Paris time (CET)

  342. Walt O'Brien says:

    Welcome, Amerloque. Good to see you, too.

    I used to harass IggyJack mercilessly until I started a course in JAWS (Jobs Access with Speech) software for the blind and otherwise visually impaired a couple of years ago. I think he is blind, as the carriage return matches the dimensions of the edge of the little box you used to use for blogging and commenting at the DT. The format change has meant a format change for when his software tells him verbally the carriage has reached the right-hand edge of the comment box. BTW, I’m not blind yet, but I have welders’ flash (wet AMD), so when vision goes it will be me standing on a street corner somewhere trying to find the buttons on my cell phone for emergency assistance.

    His posts are still stultifyingly boring but the Net is his only interface with the outside world outside the eternal blackness. Rage, rage against the dying of the light, is what I think he is about at the moment. Sporting of the DT to put up with it with grace.

    Friday, June 11, 2010
    It’s business as usual for BP’s most important counterparties.

    I think BP is going to kick the Feds senseless in court, is what I think, then go have lunch. It was stupid of the smelly broke-budget wino-like commander in chief of the USA to take them on like this. UCC (Uniform Commercial Code) is pretty clear on the obligations between prime contractors and sub-contractors and their clients.

  343. Old Toad says:

    The new DT (Thatcher) blog has got off to a good start. We are asked to believe that while the Blessed Margaret was an early warmist, she was also an apostate. ‘Judy8’ wants to know what influence Lord Monckton had over her, and the return of our floating feathered friend has elicited a great deal of barking. Unfortunately you need to visit his blog to see what he’s getting at.

  344. Amerloque says:

    Hi Walt !
    on June 15, 2010 at 1:09 am

    /// … harass IggyJack mercilessly… blind … the format change has meant a format change …///

    So there is causality ! I’ve often wondered about his lapses in register and that might explain it.

    /// … I think BP is going to kick the Feds senseless in court, is what I think, then go have lunch. …///

    Before the advent of our spoonfed fast-tracked affirmative action Chicago Southside President B’Arack “Narciso” Obumbles, I would have thought the same thing. Now, I’m not so sure. (sigh)

    Seen from over here in France there are lotsa weird and unexpected things going down in the USA. We have five or six avowed tax cheats in Cabinet positions, for example … and this Kagan individual. We have a President who has never held a real job in his life nominating to the Supreme Court a person who has never been a judge. Yeah, right.

    Stand strong, Arizona !

    20100614 18h20 Paris time (CET)

  345. Locusts says:

    IggyJack commented on Tebbit’s blog the other day. I said, as I’d read the Guardian articles accusing him of being a computer, here is the proof that he really is a person, as no computer would have worked out the new login system. He replied incredibly quickly to say thank you! It must have meant a lot to him.

    Crownarmourer, thanks for your replies from a very long time ago.

  346. Mack says:

    Old Toad says:
    June 15, 2010 at 1:34 am
    “Unfortunately you need to visit his blog to see what he’s getting at.”
    Unfortunately I ,for one,have no intention of acquiring RSI from scrolling to read what anyone has to say. L’Amerloque made a great suggestion which is to post here first then elsewhere, at least we can read it here without too much difficulty
    But a word of caution. In order to read the blogs on the DT you have to allow 9 separate items of spy-ware to function.Those of you using windoze will not be aware of this.

  347. Locusts says:

    Any idea what the spyware does, using linux, is there anything I can do?

  348. Mack says:

    Locusts says:
    June 15, 2010 at 2:51 am
    Locusts,download NoScript which blocks java unless you choose to allow it. There are 4 items on this very site [ in addition to wordpress itself ]but you can log in without them being activated. When I say spy-ware I mean items that collect data and details from your PC ,such as reading the previous cookies so they know where you have been. These are
    youtube is there too but you need this to see the vids.It would be better if links only were posted and not the embedded stuff.

  349. Locusts says:

    Okay thanks, I object to everyone knowing where I have been, and having minutes of every online conversation I have had. Nothing to hide, more a, why do they insist on knowing.

    Well, nothing to hide…maybe I should have a specific browser for looking at naked ladies.

    Thanks for all of the links everyone, I’m (very) slowly digesting them.

  350. Mack says:

    Locusts says:
    June 15, 2010 at 3:09 am use Firefox as it has lots of add-ons to play with.You can set it to dump all cookies when you shut it down,you can do this whenever you feel the need to secure your system from spying eyes.
    Edit-preferences-security and there you will see the cookie options.
    With NoScript you will find a new options button down at the lower right hand of your monitor.Left click to see what goin on !

  351. Caridnor says:

    Just lurking here, can’t stand the new DT Blogware – if I’d designed and installed a piece of software like that I would be thoroughly ashamed……..
    Thank goodness for Ozboy

    Thanks for the NoScript tip, just loaded it and modded my cookie options yet again.

  352. Mack says:

    Caridnor says:
    June 15, 2010 at 3:44 am
    Glad to be of help,and welcome to the site.The others will be along later to say Hi.
    With NoScript, for those not familiar with these things, you can just allow the bare minimum of Java to enable a sit to function,it teaches itself up to a point but it puts you in control of your machine.

  353. manonthemoor says:

    Oz Post

    Seems NASA wants the sun to lightup in 2013 inferring magnetic storms/sunspots here

    This looks like just another scare story to keep us on our toes or it could be a practice in the Uk for the full Huhne ‘lights out’ in 2015

    Perhaps the only blessing is that the auto insert ‘global warming’ seems to have failed.

  354. Amerloque says:

    Chicken Little Alert !

    Chicken Little Alert !!

    Nasa warns solar flares from ‘huge space storm’ will cause devastation

    Britain could face widespread power blackouts and be left without critical communication signals for long periods of time, after the earth is hit by a once-in-a-generation “space storm”, Nasa has warned.

    National power grids could overheat and air travel severely disrupted while electronic items, navigation devices and major satellites could stop working after the Sun reaches its maximum power in a few years.

    Senior space agency scientists believe the Earth will be hit with unprecedented levels of magnetic energy from solar flares after the Sun wakes “from a deep slumber” sometime around 2013, The Daily Telegraph can disclose

    In a new warning, Nasa said the super storm would hit like “a bolt of lightning” and could cause catastrophic consequences for the world’s health, emergency services and national security unless precautions are taken.

    Scientists believe it could damage everything from emergency services’ systems, hospital equipment, banking systems and air traffic control devices, through to “everyday” items such as home computers, iPods and Sat Navs.

    Due to humans’ heavy reliance on electronic devices, which are sensitive to magnetic energy, the storm could leave a multi-billion pound damage bill and “potentially devastating” problems for governments.

    “We know it is coming but we don’t know how bad it is going to be,” said Dr Richard Fisher, the director of Nasa’s Heliophysics division.

    “It will disrupt communication devices such as satellites and car navigations, air travel, the banking system, our computers, everything that is electronic. It will cause major problems for the world. …/… ///

    Is this the new AGW ?! I baptize it “The Flare Scare” !

  355. Amerloque says:

    —>>> MOTM

    (wide grin)

  356. manonthemoor says:

    @Amerloque says:
    June 15, 2010 at 4:04 am

    I was having trouble posting, would not accept my email so saved the data hence oz post at the header, then did a big reset with the big red button.

    Post then worked, and you arrived, clearly two posts are better than none


    manonthemoor 14 June 19:16

  357. Locusts says:

    thanks mack, and welcome caridnor, won’t write anymore now as my internet has been playing up!

  358. Locusts says:

    About the solar flare scare. I can see it now. It comes unexpected, a thousand flying drones suddenly crash all over the world. Loads of countries are so outraged they decide to declare war on America, but can’t, as they can’t phone anyone.

  359. NoIdea says:

    The end of the beginning.

    Chapter 3
    The Mack attack or the crumble in the jungle

    June the thirteenth 2030 breakfast time

    Mack was swinging his razor sharp titanium machete with great abandon and glee, hacking for the sake of it. Mack was singing and whistling (Always look on the bright side of life, Monty Python) as he slashed and danced through the jungle, each blow lopping off a branch or frond, this however was not just some crazy path of destruction; rather a trail an idiot could track or at least be forced to follow as the path of least resistance.
    Mack had been out in the jungle tracking down some of the lost crew for a few hours before he realized he was being himself tracked. While he had been slipping silently through the dense foliage he had been laying down motion detectors, tiny little things that would indicate the size and speed of any movement detected. The motion detectors had not picked up anything. That was the give away; there should be movement in a jungle, lots of it, even in a remarkably new virgin jungle such as the Antarctican mega jungle surrounding the valley of despair.
    Mack knew of only one other person who knew the small design flaw in the motion detectors and that was his lost conspirator and fellow gadget inventor The Pointman. They had discovered early in the design process that by mimicking the movement of the wind through branches you could fool the devices. They had christened the strange rocking motion the chameleon walk. The Pointman did not have any ways to prevent the natural hubbub of the jungle closing back in to the path that Mack was leaving, as far as he knew. He had not seen The Pointman for a few whiles, which is the only way to describe the fractured nature of the passage of time since the Fantasy Shift. So if it was not The Pointman, whom could it be? This was the question foremost in Macks mind as he led his hapless victim on towards the kill zone.
    As Mack emerged into the clearing at the edge of the cliff top surrounding the valley of despair he noted the green dot from the laser sight on Codename the PlatCat weapon dancing across the landscape searching for possible threats. Of course there was no sign of the PlatCat himself; he could be any one of the boulders that littered the terrain, or just as easily be behind a boulder. Mack grinned and moved forward carefully balancing himself so the correct weight distribution would register with the mine net they had laid down the previous day. He made his way to the slab of rock a short way in from the jungles edge they had christened the altar stone, hopped up on to it and sat down facing the jungle. He did not have long to wait before he could see what the PlatCat was pointing to with his sight. Mack suppressed a growl and resisted the temptation to vaporize that section of the jungle with the sequential C5 remote charges. You had to learn not to trust your eyes in this topsy turvy turmoiled times. The figure he saw sure looked like his dead dreaded nemeses from the EPIC dome Lord Isis Zagreus Eos Nereus.
    Mack saw the colour change signal from the PlatCat and called out in his rough booming voice “come on out whatever you are, I see you wear the face of the Dead Shadow Lord” a short silence was followed by a quiet cough. “I dare not come any closer” came a mild human voice from the jungle shadows “not that I fear for my safety, but rather yours. You see I am somewhat radioactive, it is not me per se that is radioactive, and rather it is my mask, as you call it, the face of a dead man that is hot. I am protected from the radiation emitting from the mask by the mask itself. I am trapped by that which saves me. I feel I should perhaps move slowly into the clearing away from these C5 charges as they are now sweating due to the proximity of the Gibbs free energy released by my mask. If it is all right with you I will avoid the mine net and stand with my hands in clear view just by the patch of cesious cespitous grass. I mean you no harm Mack”
    Mack hissed back “how do you know my name imposter? And how do you know about the mine net? Who are you behind that Dead mans deadly devil face”
    The figure now stood motionless in the clearing between the edge of the jungle and the cliff edge, his hands palm forwards and empty, the tight black gloves seemingly skin tight with no seams or joins to the rest of his all black ensemble. The only colours from this dark figure are the neon cerise glow from the ghastly darkness where the eyes should be, and a cerulean mist rising from the up tilted horns, where and when they mix as a Purple haze. Of course there was also the seeking green dot from the PlatCats laser sight probing at each and every vital point. The only other movement was the flapping of the great black cape that billowed and flowed around the visage of the Dark Lord, there was curiously no corresponding wind or sound of cloth whipping and snapping.
    “My tale is long and complicated, and almost entirely unbelievable as it and I have a unique perspective on all things. I will speak of many things, several of which have never happened for you. Let me attempt to answer your questions first. I have known you Mack since before the beginning of the time of the Shifts, you however have never known me. True you have battled long and hard against my likeness, that imposter was never anything other than a cheap copy designed to make my uniqueness work against me. Thank you for helping destroy that mockery of me. I can see the mine net through the enhanced optical sensor array in my helmet. I am the man formally known as the true Lord Isis Zagreus Eos Nereus. To my chagrin cursed forever to wear this ultimate tin hat. Not that there is any tin in this cered cervicofacial cerebellum container you will understand. Rather its construction of ceria (cerium dioxide CeO2) combined with cesium, cerussite (PbCO3) cerite and ceruse chabazite would see off the Cerenkov Effect seeing as cesium is the most electropositive of the alkaline metals. The chafing in the cervical area was resolved with cetology ceroplastic skills and chaetopod design utilizing cerumen ceresin (ozocerite) and cerotics in a cerotype face pack. This is no cernuous cement understand, it is ceteris paribus (other things being equal) stuck. In certitude keep your distance from my cermet helmet and you will be safe.

    “You just said a mouthful pal, and I am supposed to understand a word of it let alone believe it” growled Mack menacingly

    “Appologies my translocom was stuck in dictionary mode pages 218-219 (TWINCODELEE edition. The Webster’s International New Comprehensive Oldskool Dictionary English Language Encyclopedia Edition) I was in the vicinity of your actions when you managed to engineer the demise of my double, although I have seen the drone back in action since then. Who do you think it was that left you the clues to the three deep breath strikes and you are out, strategy? Do not fear the rebirth of the clone of the Dark Lord, this time around there is no malignant artificial intelligence in that fake tin head of his. No, this time around no silicone, just cogs and gears running whistles and bells, a simple yes/no interface.”
    “So tell me then metalhead why I do not just Blow your glowing head off? Before you can set off more of your cloned self’s or perhaps as your double did, release an army of doppeltrolls at us? Spewed Mack full of vitriol and venom.
    The dark figure stood silent for a moment before replying. “Mack, I am not your enemy, none of the misfortunes that have befallen you have been my doing. I have not even been in this realm; I became stranded in a schism in the time shifts. Although I could see all the events as they occurred in my vicinity the sounds where out of synchronicity, and I was physically unable to influence kinetic events. Imagine being an invisible ghost that cannot walk through walls or move any matter. In my ethereal state I would sometimes get stuck behind stupid flimsy arrangements. Those stupid plastic strips that are hung from doorways to prevent insect ingress where the bane of my existence. The only influence I could exert was through the Ethernet. Also I have information for you. Information about your missing team, I can tell you that The Pointman still lives.” A deep sigh issued from the shadowy amorphous cape flowing around the stationary Lord. “Forgive me Mack when I say that I do not think you have the correct ammunition to blow my head off, I never took the Chip or Collar, and so you cannot sigh my head off as you did with the false me. If you or the PlatCat should attempt to shoot me I fear the kinetic feedback could lead to some unintended consequences, the heavier and faster the projectile the worse it will be for all of us. The most important information I have concerns the mysterious and enigmatic being known only as…”
    There was a blinding flash focused between the helmets horns on Lord Isis Zagreus Eos Nereus head followed by the retort of a .303 rifle some distance off. Even through streaming eyes with burnt retinas Mack could see that the Dark Lord was no longer there. He roared with fury and pain, almost missing the PlatCats distinctive drawl on the com.
    “Just to let you know Mack that was not me firing that shot, it was my choice of caliber, wrong choice of velocity, I estimate…Jeepers freaking H Gore! We need to RUN! Head for the jungle quick!” This uncharacteristic use of the vernacular by the PlatCat caught Mack’s attention and he stumbled with blurred vision, trying not to confuse the mine net in the process, into the periphery of the jungle. There was a deep throaty rumble as the entire cliff top clearing sheared off and began to slide down into the valley below, gaining momentum with every passing moment, the screech of rock scouring rock sounding like a sub bass giant piece of chalk on a cosmic blackboard. Now the mine nets started to blow and add their considerable din to the cacophony. The dust was still settling. The reverberations still echoing back from the wall on the other side of the valley. “PC! PC!” shouted Mack into his com “PlatCat do you read me?”

    The static silence was deafening.

    To be continued…?

  360. manonthemoor says:

    James has Captain Sherlock and we have NoIdea

    What a revelation. But as Crown would say what about the ‘Quebec Ladies’


    manonthemoor 14 June 21:36

  361. G’day all,

    I’m flat out (and rather sleep deprived) at the moment, but have skimmed all your posts. Traffic’s up again here today and late yesterday (we’re getting about four hits per post I think), as your mentioning LibertyGibbert at the DT is attracting interest. Certainly, over here we’re able to conduct the style of debate that’s no longer possible at JD’s blog. Never mind—they’re missing out on all the fun on this side of the planet!

    NoIdea: you are anything but.

  362. ScouseBilly says:

    Sir David King now switches to peak oil:

    “While politicians continue to wrangle, there is more need than ever for the business community to show strong leadership and continue to press for long-term clarity on carbon pricing,” he wrote. “Above all, the imperative remains for a high price on carbon, and business leaders should continue to plan for this. The foolish may try to ignore the problem, but the wise know that climate change, and hence the need for decisive global action, is not going away.”

  363. scud1 says:

    Definitely to be continued!…splendid stuff.

    Deepwater Horizon…
    It really does look like the Captain was on to something. I’m not sure about his theories concerning the Bullingdon club and all but it does seem certain that Goldman Sachs sold a record number of BP shares in just a few weeks before the event and also evidence is emerging that Soros et al were busy hoovering up investments in the chemical dispersant used on the slick.
    Apart from that, the coverage and actions / non-actions have been distinctly weird. All I ever see is that same oily pelican, undersea footage of some brown stuff billowing out from a pipe, some helicopter shots showing some floating brown stuff and err…that’s about it.
    It’s been well documented that the authorities are not letting anyone anywhere near the supposedly ruined coastlines…if it really were the disaster they’re trying to paint then surely ‘All hands on deck’ and not just the…’You spilt it. Clean it up.’
    And finally, after nearly 60 days, we have Barry proclaiming the incident so serious that the whole world must now look to ‘clean sources of energy.’
    Anyone make a connection here?..ooh, thanks pet pooch…I hadn’t thought of that! Good boy, here’s a biscuit.

  364. manonthemoor says:

    @scud1 says:
    June 15, 2010 at 7:32 am
    On the Alex Jones/JD showa coupleof days ago the item after James was about this thing, bad TV reports, soldiers keeping people away etc etc.

    The show should be or will be soon available for listening from the archive.
    Well worth a listen, James as well of course.
    Time for my bed now but if no one posts the link I will go searching in the morning

    Good night, and ozboy take it easy and keep away till you recover a bit.

    manonthemoor 14 June 22:49

  365. Walt O'Brien says:

    Here is the beginning of the end for Kablamma and the climate liars.

    Lots of fat, megawaddling NY State employees are going to be washing their magic workplace coffee cup at home tomorrow, too.

    Other happy news: don’t you love the Presidential (bwahahaha) parallel drawn between 9/11 and the oil leak? We don’t exaggerate here in the U.S. press. No lies too big, no fraud too risible, we buy and sell them all. My goldfish died, it was like Iwo Jima around here.

    I got laughed at by a Justice Department contractor today. They aren’t so much busy with the climate fraud issue over there. What they are busy with apparently is allegations of market fixing on the order of the E. Howard Hunt silver price fixing back in the 1970’s relating to wholesale crude pricing. Seems a certain someone is artificially keeping wholesale market prices high through fraudulent misrepresentation of an environmental catastrophe to preserve the cost-effectiveness of renewables while keeping excise revenues for the Feds high based on the artificially-rigged spot price.

    People forget that the break-in at Watergate had nothing to do with the Kommiecratic headquarters; it had to do with access to the next floor up to find out what the next day’s oil spot price was going to be LOL!

    Plus ca change, plus ca meme chose. Aussi, apres moi, la deluge.

  366. crownarmourer says:

    Interesting link have noticed that on the drop down list English is not listed there and they have listed the languages in English not in there native language. I see Farsi and Tagalog are not there.

  367. crownarmourer says:

    Also since when did the Welsh or Irish need an English translation.

  368. crownarmourer says:

    If the Goldman Sachs/Soros stuff is correct then this was deliberate.

  369. msher says:

    If anyone is interested, our friend Judy8 is at it again on the Thompson blog – the current article about Obama. She thinks the Delingpole posters are anti-Obama because they are racist and anti-Muslim. (I guess the latter might be true.)

  370. crownarmourer says:

    msher I’m not anti muslim as 90% of them are not out on any power trip agenda or currently carrying out a personal Jihad against me, I just concern myself with ones that are and hidden ones such as the POTUS.

  371. Walt O'Brien says:

    Hello, Crownarmourer. It is more than a little presumptuous on the part of someone such as Judy8 with neither the wit nor the integrity to list her own (you don’t suppose Judy8 is actually silqworm again, do you?) associative predispositions to judge those of people they have not even asked what theirs were. For my part, those Moslems (Muslim sounds like breakfast cereal from Sweden or some damned thing) with whom I have done biz partners with for combined commission/base hourly rate projects for export have included the following:

    A. Two separate deals with former Palestinians, one the genuine multigenerational pre-Mandate lineage sort who got sick of the PLO helping themselves to his family store’s till, the other a Jordanian Boston store owner who I think is related to Bluto from Popeye and a complete maniac with perfect manners. The first project was to export Insinkerator garbage disposals to the Middle East, the second fellow’s project was to train him as a sales rep for my Canadian aircraft gas turbine repair tekkie shop affiliates;

    B. A Detroit-based (Birmingham, actually) Turkish engineering chap laid off from Chrysler by Lee Imacockhead who started an automotive parts export operation from his kitchen table with a fax machine and typewriter and who hired me to get him licenced and set up with a QA/QC system to sell to the US military. He now has over fifty employees in his Ann Arbor offices;

    C. I also did much market research for Ashot Ashkelon who make gearboxes, mostly, but also adjustable tungsten balance weights for the wings of aircraft like Boeing passenger jets (aircraft need ballast just like ships to maintain an even keel in flight for when too many Michael Moores get on board) which was staffed for its stateside project with former Z’Ahal military intel types, half of which were either Bedouin or Druze stalwarts and really the sort of people who you hate to take to a restaurant because they get you laughing so hard the other tables tell you to pipe down.

    D. I also have really nice friends and biz associates and project experience working with, a large portion of whose staff are also sons and daughters of the House of Mohammed who also did their mandatory national service duties saluting the Magen Dovid flag.

    As far as not liking Mr. Kablamma, I don’t like what he is doing. That is as far as it goes. I don’t know the guy otherwise. If he pays $150 an hour, I’ll caddy his golf bags, okay?

    I don’t know Judy8. I don’t know who or what Judy8 likes. My kid nephew of 10 has the ability to differentiate between his pals’ thoughts and his friendship with them. He doesn’t cut them off because they don’t like the same TV shows he does.

    It is the infantilization of the digital universe which drives me mad. It makes everyday real experience look trivial and non-essential when non-digital experience is the whole ball game. You get burnt out by it after so many hours of the unrelenting third-grade aspect of it all. The back and forth pre-teen name-calling and word games with Peepop Epic Log and Isn’t were mature and at least not “I’ll kill you if I find you” type relationships as so much of what passes for Net dialogue is.

    I hate people telling me what they think I like or dislike or what I feel. They never ask what I feel, or they would know.

  372. Walt O'Brien says:

    I don’t think any of this Gulf of Mexico back and forth has anything to do with BP or Duelling Banjos Deepwater or the Mann in the moon. It has to do with gearing up for a go at Chavez and his little pals the doper lords which latter right now are getting their tails shot off on a daily basis by a piece of US Navy ocean-going hellraising called the USS Spirit, which is a Freedom class vessel powered by the Rolls Royce MT30 driving Kamewa waterjets, and which 90-meter vessel does around 50-60 knots and more and carries more weaponry than the Deathstar. Mr. Putin, droll humourist that he is, has sold Mr. Chavez many Sukhoi-30 beauties and ballistic rockets which can hit Miami (we should be so lucky. Chavez, we’ll PAY you, just don’t miss Jacksonville and the Baptist national headquarters LOL!).

    I would be clearing the decks for action, too. I think BP will cheerfully divest itself of its Gulf holdings and its Us interests so that the USA can have a go at not only the Chavezistas but also to give the Mexicans some serious help a la 1916 so they can end their own drug-fueled Viet Nam, which death rate there is now twice as bad as back in the day in Southeast Asia in terms of rate of body count (22,700 dead in three years).

    Methinks no one is sharing the truth of the matter with anyone on this situation. It’s so typical of this day and age. Maybe it’s smarter ot do business this way if one is a government. It’s not like the press is on anyone’s side anymore except their own. There IS no American national press. I don’t see a single talking head on TV who wouldn’t blow his nose with an American flag if no one was looking. Most would do so if someone WERE looking. The only journalists I would want embedded with my unit would be Israelis, Aussies, French or Polish, the rest of them go to the front wearing clown shoes to clear land mines.

  373. crownarmourer says:

    Walt like I said 90% are not on my radar and will never be once you have sat down to a meal with these people you realize you have more in common and hate really is stupid.
    The 10% of loonies or easily led worry me and that comes from talking to Iranian friends who told us about the wonderful revolution they had and the jolly japes of the revolutionary guard. A man who is President with little verifiable past and whose religious affiliations may or may not be a Moslem bother me and makes me wonder what his real agenda is.

  374. Walt O'Brien says:

    Hi, Crownarmourer. My biggest fear, which isn’t one, just a persistent irritation at not knowing what to expect next except another letdown from someone who is supposed to be leading (just give us all a briefing on what else the POTUS is going to fail or betray us on in the remaining 2-1/2 years so we can fill our emotional sandbags to blunt the impact of the oncoming steamroller), is that POTUS is a graduate of the MSU (making stuff up) school of crisis management, and that all these responses to events are just improvisations. That’s how real Africans do business, all the time, 24/7/365, and have for 100,000 years. It has nothing to do with race and everything to do with attitude and upbringing.

    Does he have a clipboard with a yellow pad and a list of (hopefully) the following?:

    1. Balance budget;
    2. Spreadsheet of when things are to be paid down, if ever;
    3. Punchlist of things to do which generate governmental income versus things to stop doing as they are a complete dead loss with no visible positive public benefit;
    4. List of people to fire, not downsize, not involuntarily reintegrate with the private sector, I mean FIRE;
    5. A foreign policy;
    6. A benefit/loss ratio chart by country to help with sorting out a foreign policy.

    It’s retarded, crownarmourer. My third grade English teacher could have handled the situation better. The only stuff working that isn’t going to break our collective fiscal back are the things Bush put in place in 2007-8, and 436 billion of that is sitting on the ground doing nothing; I do not even know if it is logging interest which with this administration, it probably isn’t (of course it is, it is with the banks of which the Feds are now on the boards of, possibly permanently).

    Our economy is on hold and entirely static in three key areas: energy, manufacturing and export development, and governmental aid funding to the States, which last they should just say “Stop. Now.” Let things go broke on a state level and lay off millions of state workers now, cut the welfare tramps loose now, and write down that debt so the lenders can take the tax writeoff for the bad debt, and get it over with so we can start from scratch. All they are doing is the cowardly thing: kiting the economy so the next generation can take the hit. This has been going on since Carter. Nixon was the very last President to deliver a truly (not virtual and “projected,” but paid up) balanced budget. It’s been forty years of kited government cheques. Why is Madoff in prison when state governments are doing the same thing only worse?

    We don’t have the money for all this, and what we do have is not being deployed to address the problem in any event. What’s up with the 436 billion on the floor left over from ARRA?

    It’s goofier than concern about religious affiliation. It’s that someone who should be running a hi-lo at a MalWart warehouse is now running the USA.

  375. crownarmourer says:

    Walt they should have let the too big to fail banks fail and not bail them out these are the same people now griping about government debt being to high because of bailing them.
    Ironic in the extreme. The pain would have been hard but short lived. Now we have decades of stagnation at best to look forward to.

  376. Amanda says:

    Ozboy, G’day.

    I know your hours are absurdly (and in the case of your darlings, wonderfully) over-full but still… where’s that Donate button? I do hope you haven’t forgotten about it.

  377. Amerloque says:

    From the Los Angeles Times now …

    ///Reporting from Washington —

    The Deepwater Horizon oil rig that exploded in the Gulf of Mexico was built in South Korea. It was operated by a Swiss company under contract to a British oil firm. Primary responsibility for safety and other inspections rested not with the U.S. government but with the Republic of the Marshall Islands — a tiny, impoverished nation in the Pacific Ocean … ///

    Surprise, surprise ! Where’s the Captain ? (smile)

    20100615 °8h31 Paris time (CET)

  378. scud1 says:

    Hers’s ???

    Morning Amerloque…

    Thanks for the links.

  379. manonthemoor says:

    @ scud1 says:
    June 15, 2010 at 6:36 pm

    Thanks for the link the last James interview I copied using Audacity to make an .mp3 hopefully I will get the time to do the same thing again


    manonthemoor 15 June 9:46

  380. manonthemoor says:

    Good morning all , been busy typing here again

    Interesting word from Walt and Crown

    (I note that the link quoted by Walt initially is now very bland
    “Walk on now, situation normal, nothing to see here” I guess perhaps there was a different message earlier.
    Back on topic of Parallel Universe and relevant to the Oil Leak.

    I draw parallels between AGW and peak oil

    Both idealisms have similar starting points eg now, and both have similar end points, the reduction in usage of oil resources. I do accept however the means to the end is different. —-I will try to explain below.

    Peak oil first.
    I know many James supporters shout down peak oil, but it must be recognised that each day that passes oil is costing more to extract and the current Gulf situation is an example of things to come. Yes there are tar sands and gaseous rocks, but EACH and ALL of these finds are more difficult to extract , have potential hazards and at present poor return on investment, or return on energy gained in comparison with energy expended. The fact is all the easy oil is gone and a major price hike will follow, and indeed the reserves in the Arabian Gulf are very much in question as well.

    The result of this will be more expensive fuel, heating and electricity and hence a reduction in usage and thus a reduction in carbon (If that was ever a problem?).

    Now AGW

    I think we understand the technical and political arguments on both sides

    HOWEVER if peak oil is in part a reality, our governments face a massive drop in revenue from oils company profits and taxes in the use of all forms of energy. In particular this applies to cars, transport and domestic heating.

    So is AGW a reaction to Peak oil, even to the point that the current Gulf crisis could be a reaction to the success of Climategate and provide the Congress an excuse to drive and pass cap and trade
    Carbon trading is a way for the financial world to get their cut in the face of reduced business and contracting markets.

    I look forward to the views of others

    Manonthemoor 15 June 9:49

  381. @G’day All,

    I know this is going to sound like a completely left-field question, but…

    Do any of my community here have a literature/fine arts qualification, or would consider yourself similarly well-lettered? If you do, are interested in a small project I have in mind for this site and have a few hours to spare over the next few weeks, let me know at this website’s e-mail address:

    Use the e-mail address you use to post comments here.

    I’ll explain shortly—enjoy yourselves today. Do you know, we’re coming up to one thousand comments at LibertyGibbert.

    I’ll also respond to some of your other posts/comments/suggestions tomorrow morning my time. In the meantime, behave yourselves!


  382. manonthemoor says:

    and All
    I know you have taken a clear interest in EU finance and its collapse this one is a lulu from AEP today

    We are all doomed is the only comment to make, however it may help kick AGW into the long grass.

    Very quiet today people!!

    manonthemoor 15 Jun 14:34

  383. NoIdea says:

    @Edward Longshanks on June 11, 2010 at 6:57 pm

    Sorry for the delay, I get side tracked easily.
    There is a library of stuff of all persuasions here. Most of the OTO stuff has Crowley’s handiwork in it somewhere.


  384. manonthemoor says:

    As promised here is the link to download an mp3 podcast of the Alex Jones Show from Thursday 10 June where the guest was James Dellingpole 2010/

    The filesize is 53.1Megs — James interview stars 50 mins in

    Well worth a download and listen.
    Following is further talk about the oils spill if I remember correctly

    manonthemoor 15 June 16:35

  385. NoIdea says:

    The end of the beginning.

    Chapter 4
    There is no place like dome

    The year is 2030, the date is uncertain. It is later than before.

    The Grand Regal Oligarch Champion Of Temporal Terror strode screaming stridently, stentorian steps singing stereoscopically, showing steep slopes stereobate steradians sublime, seemingly succinct subterranean subsonic sublimation, subjecting subversive subjects subliminally subscribed. Subsistence sustained subsequent subjectivism, subordinate slaves survived.
    The Grand Regal Oligarch Champion Of Temporal Terror was in a fowl mood, he had to keep ducking.
    He was also in a foul mood; his Chief Religious Advisor of Policy Scientific was not talking to him.
    He smacked his head off a nogging with a miss timed step in his jogging. Another nodule was added to his already misshapen head.
    He screeched and he hollered “Jekyll Obadiah Epsilon, get your dysphotic dislogistic duplicitous duodenum down here right now! My CRAPS has run down, do you hear me you, you trombiculiasis trophozite troll” ”Yeth Mathter” came the immediate reply from very close by just down by his thigh.
    The Grand Regal Oligarch Champion Of Temporal Terror leapt in the air with alarm and alacrity, striking his head squealing “Eeeeks! Don’t do that. I have told you before never sneak up on me” He rubbed his newly acquired lump and glared at the noggin. A clump of dank grey hair was stuck to it. “What do you mean chiggers? No chiggers on me!” this was the troll speaking from waist, dangling you will understand. The Grand Regal Oligarch Champion Of Temporal Terror shared his glare, one eye up, one eye down, his visage twisted in an ultra frown. A fleck of froth on both sets of lips, flared up nostrils filled with liquescent liquorices. “Lickspittle!” spat The Grand Regal Oligarch Champion Of Temporal Terror “I want you to go deal with my CRAPS that has run down, go and wind up Lord Isis Zagreus Eos Nereus. I take it you still have the key?” “Yeth Mathter” came the exacerbated reply with a sigh. “What kind of key ring would I be, if I did not keep hold of your keys?” With that said he unhooked his flagelliform tentacles from the belt around The Grand Regal Oligarch Champion Of Temporal Terror’s second waist, and slithered down on to the roughhewn stone flagstones.
    Off up the slope he slithered, muttering to himself. “Wind up this, clean up that, if that buffoon only knew half what I know he would be dangerous. He doesn’t even suspect the true nature of the time shifts. I have seen them, oh yes I have, on the outside, they tell me I am crazy, that there are no dinosaurs, I seen them, I did, I seen them.”
    The Grand Regal Oligarch Champion Of Temporal Terror watched with disgust and loathing as his trilobitic minion squirmed off, the various keys and doodads attached to the multitude of piercings all over his torus shaped body skittering across the stones. It looked as if there where a mechanical mercurial maniac donut running up the hill. “Why do I never check that my keys are where they are supposed to be?” he mused to himself. With a flourish, he span on his heel and flounced up the hill, spanking his head once more as he went.
    When The Grand Regal Oligarch Champion Of Temporal Terror woke up he had no recollection of anything, amnesia had set in. The only thing in his head,
    ‘fluorine number 9 fluorine nine toxic fluorine nine corrosive nein fluorine gaseous fluorine nine element nine symbol F nein fluorine atomic number 9 the most electronegative nein? Fluorine reactive insane nine9nein toxic floozy sodium sulfite nein sodium sulfide sodomy sodium number eleven 11 lesbian assassins oh no! Not bono okoy ahoy eleven nine sodium fluorine number 9’
    And so the muttered refrain continued round and around, mewling and drooling and that is how he was found.

    To be continued…?

  386. manonthemoor says:

    @NoIdea says:
    June 16, 2010 at 4:47 am

    When I awoke this morning I realised where your new (exotic) words had come from. They are clearly the overflow from the moderation on the DT which has been working overtime.

    Incidentally it seems that Yaosxx, Crown and RR in particular are still fighting the good fight over on the DT trying to make some sense and show up the illogical moderation.

    My patience is exhausted, the low count, the paging system and search options are destroying the blog. Having said that the system works better for AEP with cutting comments about the state of the EU.

    manonthemoor 15 June 21:04

  387. i_was_ferret says:

    Hi all
    I’ve been fascinated by the link posted up above somewhere with the live power generation stats for the UK’s windmills…
    Halfway down under Pwak Wind Generation Forecast it says “Total Metered Capacity (MW) 1588”. Does anybody know how this relates to the 4531.94 MW that stated on their Renewables UK site??

    I’ve been crafting a little VB.Net widget to pull the data out of the web page!-)

  388. i_was_ferret says:

    That should be Peak not Pwak!!

  389. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    @ NoIdea June 16, 2010 at 4:47 am

    This is a note to myself;
    Do Not have a mouthful of coffee when reading a NoIdea literary masterpiece!

    To be continued…? Absolutely!!

    No better way to start the day on a cold foggy morning than a hearty belly-laugh. Thanks. I’ve heard of ambitious parents using flash-cards to enhance their infant’s IQ/vocabulary but your folks must have given you a dictionary/thesaurus to play with. Very funny stuff.

  390. Walt O'Brien says:

    Hello, I was ferret. If you scroll down to “Generation by Fuel Type (Chart),” that gives you the most accurate and meaningful representation of just how much power per hour was generated by the type of generator for the entire grid’s generation plants for the given time period.

    From the looks of things–this is a very sensible and damning layout, by the way; if people in the UK knew what they were looking at here, they would be out in force with bazookas and cutting torches out to do for the wind towers LOL!– about 60% of the total power generated is as it should be, combined cycle natural gas fired combustion turbines to ramp up and down to match fluctuations in demand (you do realize that for your lights not to dim or explode, the power put out by the generators exactly has to match the user demand, right? That’s the major engineering miracle that happens every hour of every day which makes the Suez Canal and the Pyramids look like kids’ sandbox projects which everyone takes for effing granted) with coal and nuke providing dispatchable but slow response baseload power (about 30-40%) and wind providing a non-dispatchable under-2% fractional output.

    When they say MW output and it is a ridiculously high figure otherwise, it usually means total or levelized annual output of gross electric power for the generation scheme or device.

    What is nifty and damning about this layout is that if you tracked the CCGT output and correlated it to the wind output on an evry-ten-minutes metered basis, you would see instantly that what the CCGT’s are doing is exactly compensating for and delivering the power per time slot the wind turbines are contracted to deliver but are not capable of delivering, as the wind ain’t a-blowing.

    I suppose if one were Sir John Rose of Rolls Royce on the golf course after a busy week at Glencoe, bouncing golf balls off the head of sheep (D’Oh! I used the dreaded sh**p word! Will I be moderated by Cthulhu? BTW, it was crownarmourer and I who kicked off the Cthulhu nonsense over at the Delirium Tremens website. I’ve counted 5 ideas so far JD had lifted with no acknowledgement, not even a “Gee, that’s clever.”), my caddy might see me smash my clubs for no reason around a tree one at a time and wonder why. The very idea of this scale of massive fraud is repellent to any engineer, regardless of how attractive it makes one’s company stock, and while the fraud has sold thousands of beautiful shiney new Trent 60’s combined cycle gas turbines out of Derby, fraud is still fraud.

    After all, the idea is to reduce carbon emissions, right? It is not doing even that, wind is actually increasing the usage of carbon-based fuel exponentially through wind requiring 90% of its generation capacity (on the nameplate per hour rating) “backed up”–that is, completely covered, usually 22 out of 24 hours of the day, 365 days a year–by thermal plants which have quick response times, like GT’s or recip’s. Adding 5 gig’s of wind power hasn’t reduced carbon emissions for 5 gig’s worth of power generation: it has added 5 gig’s of thermal, natural gas fired power generation squatting down behind a yellow happy face mask made up of X number of thousands of upside down egg beaters that mulch birds and make the UK look and sound like a whoop-whooping nightmare of completely worthless rotating plastic and aluminium, all of which wind turbines being installed for no reason nor functionality but to satisfy the cackling whims and insane imaginings of non-engineering post-normal pervo pedo dope addled macrame weaving Hamas-french-kissing useless libtard degree holding communists.

    Hope that clarifies things somewhat.

  391. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    @ manonthemoor June 15, 2010 at 11:35 pm

    Re collapse of the euro……

    As I understand it, among many criteria the EU needed to acquire legal “personality”, was its own currency. If such currency is found to be nonviable, what legal consequences could follow for the EU as an entity, not to mention the exposure for the countries who coughed up the readies.

    A quote from your link – “We are looking at a noble experiment on the brink of failure”. Dare I suggest, the entire EU concept is a “noble experiment” (or ignoble depending on your perspective) that is so far from democratic that it deserves to fail.

    We watch with interest, as one of our PM’s pet projects is to establish the Asia/Pacific Union along the same lines.

  392. Walt O'Brien says:

    But wait! There’s more!

    So let’s say you have the Big Fraud (or Ye Bigge Aulde Fraude, as they would say up in Scotland) in place for 5 gig’s worth of wind turbine generators. Your grid is using about 4.995 gig’s worth of natural gas per hour to power those beautiful Trent 60’s all over the UK 23.9 hours out of every day.

    Given that, do you think the IPCC or other carbon trader administrators dock the traders for the 5 gig’s of virtual emissions reductions the 4.995 gig’s of natural gas fired carbon emitting output and therby allow the trader just .005 gig’s worth of carbon reductions?

    NO. REPEAT: NO. The traders take full credit based on the nameplate rating. They are pulling out of the system CASH from YOU for emissions reductions they are not delivering AT ALL.

    Why can they get away with this? Governments acknowledge demand for fuel altogether is receding yet they have debts going back 100 years and more (I don’t even think the Boer War is paid off yet LOL! I am serious. We Yanks are still paying for Korea and Viet Nam), and fuel usage excise tax has been one of their best little earners for covering payments on the Daimler and the Jamaican boyfriends and de splif, mon.

    You don’t want to know how Churchill’s generation would have responded to this sort of thing. The biggest obstacle to forward movement is the delusion that NOW is the culmination and apogee of the very best quality of thought and morality and social equity. The myth of progress with us as culminations of a higher life form is the most damaging mass delusion of all in the history of mankind. I think you can sort out how they would, though. It would probably be along the lines of how they sorted out pedos and dope dealers in the old days.

    It may happen yet. All the UK has to experience is to go broke a la 1926 or so. I personally think if that happens, the UK will have its own 1936 Spain, a sort of World Cup with live ammunition where everyone gets to play whether they like it or not. It amazes me why the British or American public thinks they are somehow immune to such impulsive behaviour when they have but to crack even the most rudely dumbed-down history book to know better.

  393. Walt O'Brien says:

    manonthemoor says:
    June 15, 2010 at 6:49 pm

    Re: peak oil concerns, there would be plenty of evidence to support the contention of Ducky Wucky Sucky Trucky’s wearisome repetition of Beak Oil concerns without ever once taking a look at the natural gas and LNG and CNG markets, which look to overtake the crude petroleum market possibly altogether in 50 years, and for a variety of very good and sensible reasons. NG is easy to handle in a refinery, it’s a gas already, it is easy to pipe to wherever, it is easy to compress and load onto a ship to wherever, and it is starting to sort out that in fact that French geologist fellow who theorized that Godwanaland broke up into the separate contents because the dry land of our continents ride on miles-thick layers of natural gas like huge air hockey pucks is probably right, based on the reportings of “Digital Energy Journal” and other trade journals for energy engineering (NOT theoretical science, this is empirical observation at work, with people paid hard cash to demonstrate on an insurable and entrepreneurial basis that the stuff is actually there).

    So…I do not get very agitated about petroleum shortages, if and when they occur. MOTM, there are over 80+ VLCC oil tankers in the various Suez-related bays paying demurrage which are fully loaded with crude and NOT delivering just to artificially keep the price of crude UP. The Paris-based International Energy Administration has been wanting to bust that racket up for decades, but it won’t wash without another world war to enforce banning that practice.

  394. Walt O'Brien says:

    “Contents” should be “continents.” Sorry. :>p

  395. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Walt O’Brien 9.38am

    Hi Walt,

    Since returning from my recent road-trip, and having encountered hundreds of these Tonka-toys around the southern mainland coastline, I have tried to find out similar information as that available on the UK power-generation link. No such luck.

    The shonks around here are obviously too smart to leave themselves so exposed. The Unions here have control of our Industry Superannuation funds, and have so far invested $2 billion in wind turbines in the state of Victoria alone. They are also heavily invested in desalination plants which I believe, use inordinate amounts of energy.

    Unfortunately, in Oz we don’t have the legislated disclosure obligations enjoyed elsewhere in the world.

    In 1975 Xavier Herbert wrote a book entitled “Poor Fellow My Country”, an Australian classic, and his dedication reads “To my poor destructed country”.

    I wonder what Mr Herbert would think today.

  396. Walt O'Brien says:

    BTW, as far as the “9/11” lie Mr. Obama has been promulgating respecting the scale of the Deepwater Horizon and MMS-only precipitated leak, I did a bit of library work respecting WW II tanker torpedoing by the Axis in the Atlantic & Pacific and the type vessels involved.

    The average tanker vessel carrying liquid fuel was about 5,000 to 8,000 tonnes, running up to 16,000 tonnes for the largest of them in that day. 8 million tonnes per year from 1939 to 1945 on average of tankers were sunk. That is 1,600 five thousand tonne tankers a year, or 4.3 vessels per day. The damage done by 800 bbls per hour at one point in the Gulf of Mexico is equivalent to (1) 5,000 tonne tanker going down every third day.

    The bit I REALLY resent about the analogy drawn is if the Gulf is 9/11, who the hell were the pilots of the figurative jets? Are we therefore to look at a US Department of State interpretation of this as a deliberate act of war by the UK on the USA?

    I would tell the Ambassador to the Court of St. James to go home to the States until he or she comes back with a formal apology for even thinking such an analogy were sane or appropriate.

    Argen effing Tina is not a USA ally. They shipped weapons to the Jerries in both world wars. They were intelligence hotbeds for the Jerries during both world wars. The Peronista army wore coal scuttle helmets, jackboots, faggoty tunics and bulgy groin jodphurs, and goosestepped and packed Lugers and 98 Mausers just like the Jerries. If I had the stuffed and mounted corpse of Evita in my living room I would rent it out to the local halfway house for formerly incarcerated pervos to do what they so wished with her.

    I am sure all this US Federal punching away at BP is entirely about Argy bargies turned submarines thanks to British-made Mk 48 torpedoes and their nasty totalitarian and corrupt military and upper class (as here, the Argie little guy is just a long-suffering victim of their leadership cadres’ delusions of grandeur).

    Everyone I know is aghast at the idea of the Gulf being compared to 9/11. 200 British died in 9/11. Every New Yorker knows that. Every New Yorker knows the first time the US national anthem was sung at Westminster Cathedral wasn’t at the end of WW II, it was at the memorial service for 9/11 back when the USA had a real President, not the MalWart Chinese communist-made version.

    Just so you know.

  397. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Further to my earlier post on the lack of info in Oz re wind turbine generation……

    The go-to guy at our local power authority finally got back to me to answer my questions.

    There IS no information available in this country on….
    a) How many turbines are operating, either nationally or by state.
    b) How much power they currently generate.
    c) What percentage of current usage is wind.
    d) No figures available on Govt subsidies paid.
    e) No info on WHO owns and operates them.

    The go-to-guy says he’ll make further inquiries in-house and get back to me.

    Seems these gadgets are simply giant totems to Green Politics and have no useful purpose whatever, so best not to startle the horses (taxpayers) by actually acknowledging that.

    “Poor Fellow My Country” indeed.

  398. Blackswan Tasmania says:
    June 16, 2010 at 10:22 am

    No fear, Blackswan. I’ll take a poke at what info’s out there on Oz “resource developments” my end, too. Never know what might turn up.

    there are two schools of thought in desal: Navy and the arrays which don’t effing work. Navy methods globally for 100-plus years consist of distillation, w/present methods consisting of state of the art (dating back to the 1950’s) six-stage flash evaporative desalinization, which yields 2 ppm purity distilled product. Then there is RO (reverse osmosis) which is what civvies use to kill lots and lots of pleasure cruiser passengers on an industrial production line basis, but as the RO suppliers pay kicks all round, it never hits the headlines except for the mysterious body count.

    If you say “reverse osmosis” to a deck officer of any navy in the world, he will hit you. Very hard. Most tried it out at one time or another with cruise line results, invariably.

    RO uses huge high-pressure pumps to drive saline water through filters, basically. It does not remove viruses nor spirochetes nor whole legions of types of bacteria. Go to the Lincoln Tunnel in Manhattan, then reach into your pocket and pull out a dime and hold it up. The dime is the relative size of a bacteria to the RO filter porosity hole of the Lincoln Tunnel (which is probably now the Ho Chi Minh or Malcolm X or Martin Bormann Tunnel by now). It is a complete energy hog requiring intense maintenance and lots and lots of replacement filters, which, like your home air filter, if you use one, will actually make the filtered medium dirtier than otherwise once the filter reaches its saturation point, or just plain “blow through” after the filtered-out glunk makes of the filter one solid diaphragm of line blockage LOL!

    Flash desalinization on the other hand, is just a still, like the sort you use to make moonshine or ethanol (or both, if you hate your brain cells and your otherwise-perfect driving record). Most use a trickle of steam at around 125 PSI and 350 degrees F depending on degrees of superheat, but other wise there are no moving parts. A better way to optimize performance is you have a vacuum inducer (I HATE the word vacuum pump, because it makes no sense. How can you pump a vacuum?), many of which are just steam venturis themselves, to cause room temperature water to “flash” into steam, and it leaves the glunk on the floor of the stainless steel flash chamber to be shoveled or drain out. Again, no moving parts except to pump the final water to wherever you want it to go.


    There are:

    1. Colliforms (a nice euphemism for bits of turd)
    2. Bacteria (nice ones without which your body can’t function, like acidophilus, yeasty stuff like sacchomyces and various types of staph of the non-flesh eating variety)
    3. Annelida (worms), crustaceans (coleus optera and rotifers, principally)
    4. Minerals in concentrations that if increased beyond a certain point will drop you like a hot potato
    5. And zillions of other critters which need not be mentioned here, to include single celled plants and plant spores and eggs for all of the above critters plus dead critters, too.

    I think everyone’s own country sucks for them, most of the time. That’s why there is a vacation industry and religions and sex and babies LOL! There’s nothing else for it. A revolt every once in a while never did any lasting damage. At one time, Mexico and the rest of Latin America had it down to an art form, now they take revolutions seriously so they aren’t any fun anymore. I was in Panama during the Torrijos/Vance negotiations to give the Canal to the Panamanians, and while a lot of people died somewhat unscheduled deaths, including members of my unit, it is hard to explain, but it became perfectly clear to me why the Russians and Red Chinese and now the Western greentards are so in love with the romance of blowing up the world in accordance with their theology of greentardedness: like dope, it makes sex and what they think of as life seem better. The same force which drives Hispanic communism is the same force that drives greentardation: it’s a style statement to die for, their own private opera, which gives their otherwise worthless lives resonance and meaning.

  399. Um, how do I insert my El Commandante Bazooka Brains pic into the avatar box, please? How can I be a Dear Leader without my propaganda poster profusely displayed?

    We also need to form our own country “in exile,” so to speak. As Resolute Supreme Dear Leader of this revolutionary movement, I propose we call it the People’s Joyous Democratic Republic of Outer Dogblovia. That way, we have a portable digital country which, if it does suck completely, it is all our fault and therefore subject to change as we see fit.

  400. crownarmourer says:

    El Commandante….permission to be the chief inquisitor in the new democratic republic to root out all unbelievers in our cause and put them to the test.

  401. crownarmourer says:
    June 16, 2010 at 1:45 pm

    It’s done. Hmmm. Boombah test, death by Boombah test, or perhaps the moshpit of 10,000 huntsman spiders test?

    We need you and Pointman to help select the national anthem, too, and scud1.

  402. crownarmourer/torquemada says:

    Well the toleration levels do seem to have increased a bit on the DT blogs I think they may have realized what they have done and given a few guidelines to the moderators.
    Damien even allowed a small flame war on his blogs agains’t white house staffers and fellow democratic office staff, thanks to everyone here who helped in doing so. Some things are out of bounds still and it is far from perfect. I say we keep this as our home republic of free thinkers and test out the waters over there. James D’s comments are way down from normal levels.
    Here we can argue tactics facts and the science without trolls and that is good and feel free to pull anyone up on bad logic or facts I will stick to my bad humour as a weapon of choice as a lot of you could talk rings around me on the engineering and science, as for politics thats mshers particular forte helps to have a legal mind on board, amandas forte lies in dealing with idiots very bluntly and with little sufferance.

  403. crownarmourer/torquemada says:

    El Commandante I think I have the answer Amanda has the musical talent to write and compose this new national anthem, I was going to go for Hunting girl by Jethro Tull but that says too much about me really.

  404. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    El Commandante… Hail!

    Your avatar has come up nicely. Bit worried. Is your brain the recipient or originator of said bazooka munitions?

    Problem. As we are currently in residence in the territory of libertygibbert (liberty being the key word here), may I suggest that the actual Resolute Supreme Dear Leader (ozboy) be asked to formally declare the Republic and assign title to his cohort of freedom-fighters.

    As for wind turbine info, thanks, help would be appreciated. I won’t hold my breath till the go-to-guy gets back to me – I’d be a blue-faced swan.

    New South Wales recently commissioned an RO desal unit against all advice from all quarters for many of the reasons you cite, but being Labor/Socialist thugs, they went ahead anyway and now the state of Victoria is following suit for all the same reasons, not to mention those industry pension-funds are up to their necks in it.

    As for the water-supply, in 1997 Sydney’s water became unusable due to an outbreak of cryptosporidium and giardia and children and old-folks were dropping like flies. For an extended period of time, people were told water must be boiled for at least five minutes before use (I wonder how many saucepans boiled dry with that one). Eventually they gave the “all clear” and said it was because the dam catchment was in farmland and all that barnyard poo was to blame. We just had to ignore the overwhelming chlorine fumes that emanated from the taps. I haven’t drunk tapwater since.

    In your list of juicy ingredients, you missed fluoride. What a boon to humanity that industrial waste-product turned out to be. If you don’t mind losing braincells and bone-marrow, it’s great.

    It’s now almost 3pm and the temperature is 7 deg C, so maybe Oz is out felling a small forest to keep his babes warm.


  405. izen says:

    @ Walt –
    “but it became perfectly clear to me why the Russians and Red Chinese and now the Western greentards are so in love with the romance of blowing up the world in accordance with their theology of greentardedness: like dope, it makes sex and what they think of as life seem better. The same force which drives Hispanic communism is the same force that drives greentardation: it’s a style statement to die for, their own private opera, which gives their otherwise worthless lives resonance and meaning.”

    Good insight.
    Humans like a narrative to live by.

    But be careful, opposition to the prevailing ideology can also be a false narrative that people find happiness in following. And that particular story can be told by those aspects of power/economy that desire opposition to the prevailing zeitgeist for reasons quite other than altruistic humanism.

  406. crownarmourer/torquemada says:

    Izen we should encourage all lefties to smoke dope it lowers sperm count and affects your ability to vote.

  407. crownarmourer/torquemada says:

    Blackswan Tasmania sounds like a nice place to live nice and cold this Neanderthal descendant likes the cold I thrive on it although like all of Australia I suppose you have multiple things that could kill me, spider and snakes.
    Our water supply in Memfrica is safe deep aquifer courtesy of the ice age.

  408. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Gee crown/torquie

    You don’t have to ask yourself if a Tasmanian snake is harmless – we only have three types and they’ll ALL do you in, especially the tiger snake, probably so called by the early settlers because the buggers will chase you if they’re cranky enough.

    We do have el Commandante’s nemisis, the “huntsman” spider but they don’t bite, just big-as-your-hand hairy scary critters that pop up when you least expect them.

    To compensate we have colonies of fairy penguins all around the coast whose neighbours are fur seals and sea lions, especially down in libertygibbert country. BTW, the PC edict following complaints from the queer lobby is that our penguins should now be called “Little Penguins” as their previous name constituted a slur………

    As I was saying, we have fairy penguins on the coast……….

    Sometimes, when big seas are running the sea lions seek shelter in the rivers, often coming past my place about 10 miles upriver. Saw one grab a cormorant for lunch one day – nature-in-the-raw is so often not the fuzzy-furry-cutesy world of Disney.

    This is the earliest extended “cold snap” for many years, so maybe it really is global cooling setting in after all, otherwise why would it be on Bilderberg’s agenda?

    Our water is good but I still won’t drink the chemical cocktail that comes out of the tap.
    Tassie is the world’s best-kept secret – I should shut up.


  409. orkneylad says:

    “Fear prophets and those prepared to die for the truth, for as a rule they make many others die with them, often before them, at times instead of them.”

    Umberto Eco

  410. Blackswan Tasmania says:
    June 16, 2010 at 3:02 pm

    Good point. That’s why it should be left a digital republic so that it is portable in the event of violating others’ territoriality. I like Crownarmourer’s idea of subcontracting out the national anthem. National anthems should be laced with implied threats and even outright insults to all potential external threats even if the lyrics reference thrown crockery, frying pans and wine bottles.

    Cryptosporidium is Newspeak for amoebic dysentery. Shigella and diptheria also have cutesy new names, but it is the same game. Actually, the American Water Works Association compliance spec states that 159 degrees F for thirty minutes will do the trick. It doesn’t need to boil. If you can get the technical team to review six stage flash evaporative units as made by Aqua-Chem a division of Cleaver Brooks, by all means do so.

    I did take a cursory look at the Oz situation on wind power, and it appears ot me there is no central regulatory licencing agency with the Oz Federales, which strikes me as a bit strange. Wikipedia has a presumably current listing of all wind projects, but then again, it is Wikipedia LOL! I will have a go at the Oz Federal Website. I am sure they have an equivalent of the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission.

    Thought Tasmania was its own country.

    Izen, I had a lot of fun in the 1960’s because I was young with a brain shielded with lots of bone, but th eproblem is you grow up when you do the responsibility for others bit for real instead of playing “save the tapeworms” with City Hall. The only hot button I have relative to lefto’s is the proprietary tomcat-like workshy “you owe me” crap we have been subjected to for the past 40 years by exclusively their side of the fence, and the nice thing is they are now out of people to tap for freebies and “go away” money. Greentardism is the last straw out of an accumulated 5,000 tonnes or more. I want to see some sweat for my bucks if I pay taxes, not some elected smart arse in a hammock sipping a pina colada spending it on lines of cocaine playing dodge-em with the coppers whenever his or her books get audited.

    It’s game over for the guilt money crowd. It’s working people now shouting for their money back from the skeezer-dweezers who know better than me what I need without asking me. You need to change your esthetic, which politics of the left exclusively are. They darn well aren’t spreadsheet based. Lefties hate money unless they are pocketing someone else’s they didn’t have to sweat for. In case you hadn’t noticed, certain factions of the West are going a bit on the broke side, mostly those with huge and unjustifiable and no-bag-for-the-buck social system handout schemes.

    I am not “careful” anymore either when no one is careful about me. Warnings and danger zones I explore on my own, thanks. I really don’t see anyone on the right out to expropriate the earnings of working folk except through the free-market system where goods and services are exchanged for cash. I’ve never heard of a left wing tax cut. The evil demon Bush Jr. is the one who did the FDR bit beyond what even FDR would dare and basically just gave 14 million poor families houses knowing they never had any intent of paying them down so their kids didn’t grow up in Section 8 housing (I think you call the “council estates” where you come from). Most of those families still have those houses, too, because surprise, having something once in their lives got them off their butts, and they are paying the houses down, those who aren’t fried on drugs coming from leftos in Colombia and Chavezland, and not even LBJ did as much in one shot as the 2004 housing act did. And Bush is a rightist. Leftists didn’t push that through, Bush was just mad enough to trust ACORN and no doubt guessed that they would screw themselves, which they did. He wrote the thing, though. He made it happen.

    No leftie has tried on anything that huge to help the poor since public water and sewage works municipal bond issuances were legalized. I don’t even hear leftie moral arguments anymore. They are too lazy to do the work and they give nothing away unless it belongs to someone else.

  411. BTW, the projectile through my brain is both a product of a less successful encounter and an integral part of my current weapons inventory LOL! Most of life works that way. I think the rocket is a serendipitous metaphor for education.

  412. i_was_ferret says:

    Thanks Walt

    I think the page ( is misleading too. What I was wondering was on that page it say the metered capacity is 1588MW, but on the other ( it says the installed capacity is 4531MW. It cannot be both!
    Their website says that they get up to 30% utilisation, but simple maths says 0.57% (or 1.6% if you use the 1588MW figure) at the moment.
    So if Huhne wants to increase power generated by renewables to 30% or more, he’ll have to install hundreds of thousands of turbines!! (Actually my back of fag packet maths said 1.2 million turbines, but…)


  413. I also don’t recommend giving up smoking for the faint of heart. I feel great, my skin is no longer grey, I have too much energy, and worst of all, I now know why I started smoking in the first place: the way the world really smells. Saturday is my first month off the stuff, and I wish I could blow it off and go back to smoking but I am of that age when it is both appropriate and necessary if I want another decade or two.

    The only upside and the only reason they work is that electronic cigarettes provide a buzz which transcends cigarettes themselves by light-years. Pure nicotine in metered doses is exquisite. As there is a pleasure factor to them, I’m waiting expectantly to find out that in fact, the electronic ciggies cause second heads to grow out of one’s shoulder.

  414. i_was_ferret says:
    June 16, 2010 at 5:50 pm

    On the first link you provided in your response to me, the 55 MW is the peak hourly average total. Multiply the 55 by 24 and bingo you have about 1588 based on projected (forecast) reserve for the bare total of all National Grid metered Wind Park Modules. It’s very deceptive unless you know grid economics. The 4531 is the total nameplate capacity per hour output possible if G_d put in a personal appearance to make sure each and every wind turbine was turning at its optimum maximum capacity (plus its functional reserve, not allowing for whether or not is was an induction or synchronous generator, etc., etc). Only 1588 MW is shown as metered by NG as they must own the meters; the other boneheads own their own meters and thus do their reporting of output independent of the Power Park Module formulae.

    What you need to understand above all is that the only number which means anything relative to the wind farms (they should be called parks, as in industrial parks, really) is the CCGT output which is doing the real work of delivering the power the wind parks contracted to sell into the grid. Wind parks, through the contractual mechanism of aggregation, basically sign contracts to sell 100 MW/hr and if the wind turbines are making only .1 MW/hr, they have a reserve capacity shortfall wheeling clause and contract with the CCGT folks which enables the wind parks to bill for the power the CCGT’s generate plus a markup for the wind parks themselves.

    Do I make myself clear? If not, may I sell you some Dutch tulip bulb futures? LOL! It is the same bloody wheeze without the nifty powdered whigs and nifty Hogarthian play togs: gummint ain’t got no money cuz they got no money so they is after your money.

  415. Yes, I_was_ferret, 1.2 million is about right. By the time they put those in, I won’t be the only person walking around with a bazooka rocket through my head.

  416. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    El Commandante 5.42pm

    “Thought Tasmania was its own country”.

    We wish. Nah, just a state in the federation, as impotent as the EU has rendered the UK.

    A now-retired Tasmanian Federal politician, dubbed the Mouth from the South, once lobbied for us to exit the Commonwealth and form our own island-nation, become a tax-haven and reap a monetary bonanza, but like the UK quitting the EU, we would need a unanimous vote of approval from other states. Not happenin’.

    Just heard a news report on one of your favourite Latinos Walt.

    Chavez says, “The only thing that will save the world is Socialism, but socialism within a Democracy. This is a Democracy, I’ve been voted in three times”. That won’t help your nicotine-deprived blood pressure. Sorry.

    Speaking of which…….
    You actually did it! O Hail Chief. My own nicotine addiction is an act of selfless concern for the well-being of those around me. Namely THEIR remaining in good health without multiple fractures. I am a very cranky swan without my tobacco rations. Please indulge my ignorance. Exactly WHAT is an electronic cigarette? I know there are patches/gum/inhalers but electronic? Or is that a euphemism for some other weird electronic stuff. We is reel igorent down heer in the wilds of the antipodes. As I never smoke indoors or in motor vehicles, and as our current weather is 10 deg C below normal, I’m likely to drop off my perch with pneumonia before the ciggies get me. Seriously, congratulations. I’m sure you loved your shred (with orange mist). Mmm.

    Gotta go, chopping stuff for a huge stockpot of beeeautiful soup.

  417. i_was_ferret says:

    El C..

    So if the area of the UK is about 94600 square miles, to get all those windmills in we’d have to have 12 in each and every square mile of the country 🙂



  418. Evening all,

    This thread is starting to get a little long; why not move over to the next one

    Plus, I’m announcing a new and highly subversive writing competition; rest assured, the DT dorks will be subjected to every word!



  419. NoIdea says:

    The end of the beginning.

    Chapter 5
    Ermine enamine enama
    June the thirteenth 2030 nearly lunch time

    Fairy penguins, huge beavers, snake tigers. Man hunting spiders and seal lions what next?
    Our three champions stood ready, scanning the jungle for the source of the ruckus. “There” shouted Manon “look above the top of the canopy, is that a giant zombie polar bear?”
    Theoz holstered his weapons and told the others to follow suit “We do not have the ordinance to stop that thing, whatever it is. We would only annoy it with our small yield devices. I have a plan, since the shift, we have seen that the wildlife is much more responsive to music, let me see if I can find something appropriate.”
    With that he bent to his task of tuning in the radiospectographicogram. No easy task in these strange shifting time scales.
    Manon and Amerl followed Theoz lead holstered their weapons and took hold of their sonic axes. They stood poised in attack stance, waiting for the tune that would start the dance. Theoz was struggling to find any music, from the screeching white noise suddenly a voice exploded with an educated and informed tone

    “Like phenols, aniline derivatives are highly susceptible to electrophilic substitution reactions. Its high reactivity reflects that it is an enamine, which enhances the electron-donating ability of the ring nicotine enema. Since estrogen circulating in the blood can negatively feed-back to reduce circulating levels, Aromatize deficiency is ultimately suspected which is involved in the synthesis of estrogen in humans and has therapeutic implications in humans having obsessive-compulsive disorder. The releases of estrogens (which are locally aromatized from androgens in the brain) play an important role in psychosexual differentiation, for example, by masculinizing territorial behavior. Etherified estrogens were not proven to pose the same risks to health as conjugated equine estrogens. to determine if risks of estrogen supplement use are the same for all methods of delivery. In particular, estrogen applied anally may have a different spectrum of side-effects than when administered orally or topically. Hyperestrogenemia may be obtained with the exogenous administration of estrogen through a mucous membrane Krebs cycle hydrodealkylation Ouroboros benzene aromatic toluene steam cracking catalytic reforming bifunctional rather than resonance stabilized positive formal charge. This molecule is very electrophillic and Electrophillic Aromatic Substitution then occurs.”

    With a droning whine the voice faded and was replaced by the Striking tones of Primary Slave playing Powdered on the freedom band. “I thought they banned all those Smoking out ya ass adverts” Grumbled Thoez.
    Now that there was a tune to play along to, all three of our heroes started to match harmonic phase resonance.
    The effect on the jungle was electrifying. Every part of the tangled undergrowth was writhing in time to the sonic assault. The gigantic Megaruderalis, Megaindica and Megasativas in all their verdant glory where nodding in the style of a metalhead at a Motorhead gig. The bitter vetch gave up its venomous alkaloid seeds in an almost pyrotechnic display as it whirled its fronds in a twisting hypnotic lashing. Rearing up above the canopy as it joined in the immense jungle boogie was the massive pale shape they had first glimpsed above the treetops.
    “My Grott” exclaimed Amerl “Is that a giant white elephant?”
    “No” replied Manon “that is the Absolutely Gigantic Woolly or AGW mammoth!”
    The AGW mammoth seemed to be dancing a rhumba. There was a squeak from the comhorn
    “Um guys, can you turn it down a bit, I am currently attempting to hang on to this dancing mammoth, if you switch your vizgogz to IR band 15, magnification 100 you should spot me, I am in the left eyebrow. If you could kindly set axes to slumber rather than rhumba I would be so very grateful.”
    “Ferret! What the Jeepers H Gore are you doing up there?” Barked Theoz
    “Well it seemed like a perfect perch to facilitate my research on the mega fauna and keep an eye out for the lost ones, I also have noticed a disturbing trend that you should be aware of” Replied Ferret.
    As the sonic axes where tuned back down from eleven to nine and the shattering reverberations of Powdered turned into the more mellifluous and melodic tones of Defiled, the jungle and the monstrous pachyderm fell quiescent. The yellowish greenish fluorescent poisonous glycosides mist started to settle. “Phew!” exclaimed Ferret. “That was quite a ride. There are two things you need to be aware of, one, all the fauna and flora on this side of the rim of the crater of crapulence, and it is a crater not a valley, is female, we are in a femzone! And two, there is an automated defiance system in operation. I suggest you get to high ground immediately. I am surprised you did not pick up the automatic warning on the radiospectographicogram” Our three heroes on the ground looked sheepishly at each other. Manon broke the silence “We thought it was an advert for blowing smoke rings out of your… we have not seen any sign of an automated defense system” Ferret shouted back “NO, NOT DEFENSE! This is an automated defiance system, this femzone is not accidental. You need to get to high ground before they get to you!”
    “Who or what is they?” asked Theoz. At that moment they spotted the first of the pale wriggling worms at the edge of the jungle, they seemed to be hesitating, only venturing a few inches out before snuffling back into cover. They appeared and disappeared in and out of the shadows. “Don’t tell me” said Amerl “Let me guess, giant furry worms?” “Not worms my friends” replied Ferret “giant furry polar attack maggots, and they are not on their own, they are just waiting for the main hunting party to catch up. I estimate you have less than two minutes before they get there. So leave all the non essentials and get your butts to high ground. Follow the rim for about 3 clicks then head towards the towering spur that you will see from there, I will attempt to rendezvous with you there. I may be some time. The mammoth will have to refuel after its rhumba session”
    “AWW man!” Roared Theoz “We are going to miss getting to eat our feast; it was nearly done as well.” With that said Theoz quickly hacked of a chunk of golden crackling. Manon grabbed the feed tube from the hydrospit and sprayed the roaring fire resulting in tumultuous clouds of steam. They each replaced all their personal kit that was not already attached, then grabbed the remaining essential items and started to run along the rim of the valley of despair or as Ferret had renamed it the Crater of crapulence.
    They had been yomping along for a couple of minutes before Amerl risked a glance back. “They are coming, we had best hurry” He did not tell them, that the ‘they’ following them was not just the maggots. The hunters were in fact huntresses. Lesbian assassins in all their athletic magnificence and negligible leather hunting strap no less.

    To be continued…?

    I will continue on the next thread if there is still a demand for this epic adventure.

  420. fenbeagle says:

    I am trying to get to the bottom of this too. I think you will find that the 1588MW Is the output for Scotland?….I could be wrong, but the spreadsheet information only seems to list Scottish windfarms? (I haven’t had time to check this properly)….I have no Idea why!

    The 4532MW is (I believe) the output for the whole of the UK?

    The Generation by fuel type table is for GB (Great Britain)

  421. Amanda says:

    Hey everybody! Amanda actually wrote a substantive AGW post! On the new thread, if you’re interested.

  422. Amanda says:

    TO Manonthemoor, June 11:

    thanks for your comments, somehow I missed them earlier.

    Yes, it is nice not having to swat at flies and ducks all the time, isn’t it?

    Congratulations Amanda: this is the one-thousandth post on LibertyGibbert!
    Many thanks to all my contributors – Oz

  423. Amanda says:

    Crownarmourer sez ‘amandas forte lies in dealing with idiots very bluntly and with little sufferance’.

    Actually, Crown, I would have said that was yours. Indeed, I have so said.

  424. Blackswan Tasmania says:
    June 16, 2010 at 7:39 pm

    e-cigarettes are a trend with college students at the moment as, (surprise!) they are as in love with a good smoke as anyone else ever was or is. Electronic ciggies are inhalers for nicotine, so in a way they are like patches, but the deal is, they do work, as you do the entire kit of ciggie thingies except no flame nor combustibles. They are legal for in-flight usage with the airlines, is how their sales propaganda goes. I don’t care about that aspect, but I am impressed that I am not jonesing for a smoke with these as I have with the gum and the patch and the other stuff. This routine works well. are my brand because they are a USA firm with a bit of a proper reputation. So far I have saved around 200 bucks US in the month I have been off the ciggies. (NY State taxes on smokes are the worst in the USA, and those taxes all goes to pay for “war widows on welfare” raising America’s future bank robbers and other work-proof parasites).

    I am like you in that if I suffer even the remotest threat of possible nicotine deprivation, Homeland Security is instantly alerted LOL! No problems with this so far, though.

    BTW, I LOVE smoking, always have. I hate to quit, as they have a splendid nuisance value, especially in outdoor restaurants and pubs where the squidgy faced churchy types deliberately bring their whole crew to sit so they can complain about the cigarette smoke to management. I have already stung a bunch of those idiots locally with my e-ciggie with the cheerful assistance of my favourite waitress. They flagged down a bicycle cop just to harass me, and the cop looked at the e-ciggie and said “Nice! I use them too.”

  425. Pingback: Express Your Disqust – the LibertyGibbert Writing Competition | Be Responsible – Be Free!

  426. Dave,Edinburgh says:

    Hi all,

    Due to the layout of the Telegraph comments I have just discovered Pointman’s reply post that my recent Delingpole comment might be of some interest if posted on this site.

    So here goes, and I hope it’s on the correct thread.

    Dave,Edinburgh as posted in the Telegraph (Delingpole) comments, 06/30/2010 04:34 PM

    While almost on a daily basis fresh evidence is presented by Normal science, it is immediately DENIED by Post Normal science. (if it doesn’t fit with what the GCM’s predict, it must be WRONG, end of debate).

    The data compiled by Post Normal science shows nothing particularly dramatic over the last few decades, only fluctuations well within the range of normal variability, and absolutely nothing that correlates with human emission of CO2.

    “Whatever truth [“Climate Change”] may contain it has surely been damaged [beyond redemption] by its association with this disreputable and vile [“Man-Made”] concept which brazenly casts aside the need for any factual basis and declares in the most unambiguous terms that whatever values it chooses to promote constitutes a truth unimpeachable by reality and a set of values that none dare challenge”.

    The arguments of an unproven hypothesis are worthless in science, only Empirical evidence counts, guided by real data, NOT by the anecdotal clap-trap of scare-mongering, environmental propagandists.

    “The danger of a “normal” reading of science is that it assumes science can first find truth, then speak truth to power, and that truth-based policy will then follow……”self-evidently” dangerous climate change will NOT emerge from a normal scientific process of truth-seeking…scientists – and politicians – must trade truth for influence. What matters about climate change is not whether we can predict the future with some desired level of certainty and accuracy. Climate change is telling the story of an idea and how that idea is changing the way in which our societies think, feel, interpret and act. And therefore climate change is extending itself well beyond simply the description of change in physical properties in our world…”.

    “We will continue to create and tell new stories about climate change and mobilise these stories in support of our projects”.
    Mike Hulme, founding director of the Tyndall Centre, Professor of Climate Change at the University of East Anglia. (from a previous post by Catweazle):

    Straight from the horse’s mouth, “dangerous climate change will NOT emerge from a normal scientific process of truth-seeking…scientists – and politicians – must trade truth for influence”. ie. fiddle the data then lie like a beggar.

    Let’s deal only with CO2 as that is what is being used for taxation and control purposes, the unhealthy obsession with windmills, the closure of industry, power stations etc., current “cutbacks” on everything except for the funding of “green” initiatives, “alternative energy” scams, in fact the whole alarmist clap-trap that could lead (if not halted) to the collapse of western civilisation and the introduction of a World government worse than “Oceania” in George Orwell’s 1984.

    We hear the constant scaremongering from the AGW brigade that human use of fossil fuels has caused the atmospheric CO2 concentration to increase by some 25% (pre-industrial to present). Just stop for a moment, no overcomplicated math, theory or predictions,

    Let’s just look at the CO2 atmospheric concentration levels pre-industrial to present, bearing in mind that this “unprecedented” 25% increase is included in, but not added to, the total current concentration.

    CO2 concentration in 1890 equalled 290 parts per million of the atmosphere, 290 over one million = 0.0290, less than 3/100ths of 1%

    Today it stands at 389.64ppmv, ~390 parts per million of the atmosphere, 390 over one million = 0.0390, less than 4/100ths of 1%

    So there you have it, “unequivocal” evidence that the total atmospheric CO2 increase over the last 120 years is the bedwetter’s nightmare increase of One-One-hundredth of 1%, a small proportion of which may well have been anthropogenic, although most of it was natural, as the known contribution from insects alone is at least ten times that of humans, not to mention other natural contributions from volcanic eruptions, rotting vegetation, CO2 outgas from warming oceans etc.

    Surely then, the atmospheric CO2 increase caused by human use of fossil fuels must be (according to warmists) 25% of One-One-hundredth of 1%.
    Get with the beat,Warmists, if it is now ~390 ppmv and you lot wish to say humans are responsible for a 25% portion of the 1/100th of 1% increase of ~100 ppmv, then 75% of the increase must be natural, what’s the problem? Perhaps warmists fear the atmosphere cannot cope with such “unprecedented” increases? Let’s see,

    Google the mean radius of earth, 6370.9987 km. volume formula 4/3*pi*r^3 = roughly 1014991035148.5156 cubic km

    Do the same for the earth plus the atmosphere (add an extra 100km) = roughly 1064966254007.9085 cubic km

    1064966254007.9085 minus1014991035148.5156 = 49,975,218,859.3929 cubic km
    Seems like there’s room to add 1/100th of 1% atmospheric CO2 increase over 120 years into the mix, and if it keeps increasing at the same “unprecedented” rate for the next 120 years, surely the sky won’t fall from the shear weight of it all.
    and where is all this extra CO2 to be found?

    If we ignore physics, in a static system all the CO2 in the atmosphere would be at ground level, but switch on the physics blender (reality) and the AGW theory is destroyed as the higher up in the atmosphere we look the less concentration is observed, the pressure would decreases logarithmically as you rise, CO2 therefore CANNOT be confined to a single altitude layer, it would just taper off to smaller and smaller concentrations as you go higher. As warm air rises it expands as pressure lowers, and although it does some “work”, it does not gain heat ( isocaloric process ) therefore as it rises it’s temperature lowers. Any CO2 present being heavier than air, therefore sinks and in a static system would return to ground level.

    But wherever this “unprecedented” 25% of 1/100th of 1% extra CO2 conveniently gathers with it’s molecular mates in the atmosphere, patiently waiting to be heated slightly by a photon of outgoing radiation, it must still follow the laws of physics, begining with the law of entropy change, which completely debunks the “greenhouse effect” for starters.

    PS, I understand that the UK and it’s dominions are responsible for contributing some 2.2% of anthropogenic additions to atmospheric CO2 levels, So is all this nonsense really needed for a UK unilateral cut (committed by former minister of overfilled kettles, Ed Miliband, in the Climate Change bill), of 80% of 2.2% of 25% of 1/100th of 1%? especially since the rest of the World seems to have passed on this. Thanks Ed, for passing on this insanity to the current bunch of incompetents.

    The atmosphere is NOT static, it is a chaotic and dynamic system, and there are so many separate disciplines involved in atmospheric “Climate Change” science, thus an overwhelming number of known parameters must be considered, (and mostly ignored by Post Normal science), not to mention parameters as yet undiscovered, so in a chaotic system such as the earth’s atmosphere any long term prediction of what will happen to future climate is unobtainable by any method currently known to normal science. (although that big round orange thing in the sky might just have something to do with it)

    In Summary, Rumours of impending catastrophe have been greatly extrapolated.

    Do Post Normal scientists need refresher explanations of the logarithmic properties of the CO2 molecule? or data on the 60 year / 900 year oscillations, (NAO,PDO,ENSO etc.) or the 200 year and 11 year Solar oscillations?, or perhaps the reason why the global average temperature is highest every year when the earth is furthest from the sun and why every year summer in the northern hemisphere is warmer than summer in the southern hemisphere? or hows about a full explanation of why their “greenhouse effect” theory violates thermodynamic law?

    If they “know” all about Man-Made Climate Change, they should already know ALL of the above as basic physics.
    (they DO know, but computer says NO)

    Catweazle, (in reply to CosmicBuddha 06/27/2010 07:23 PM on the Telegraph CB thread) has already provided the scientific equation for the logarithmic properties of the CO2 molecule:
    The equation relating CO2 (or any other greenhouse gas) versus temperature is:

    Delta(T) = K.ln(delta(C))

    Where delta(T) is the change in temperature, K is a constant, ln is the logarithmic function and delta(C) is the change in temperature.

    The implication is that for if particular delta(C) produces a given delta(T), in order to produce the same delta(T) it will be necessary for delta(C) to be doubled.

    A simplified explanation is as follows,
    How it works is you presume that the first 12.5 parts per million has caused a temperature increase of 1.0C. say you add another 25 parts per million to the atmosphere and (for simplicity) say this increases temperature by another 1.0C, adding another 50 ppm will increase temperature by another say 1.0C, add another 100 ppm for another 1.0C, add another 200 ppm for yet another 1.0C of warming, and we have a total of 387.5 ppmv for a warming of around 5.0C which is roughly where we are today. If we then double the present 389 ppmv by adding say another 400 ppmv we get an increase of only another 1.0C, nowhere near the nonsense figures touted by the scaremongers.

    Note that at it’s current CO2 level of 389 ppmv, in geological terms, the Earth’s atmosphere is CO2 impoverished, eg. Ordovician period, CO2 concentration 4,400 ppmv, temperatures about the same as today, no “runaway” warming problem, this after a fall from 7,000 ppmv (Cambrian), periods that preceded one of Earth’s major ice ages.

    quick ref:

    Finally, predicted temperature increase caused by CO2. The current Global CO2 increase is established at 2 ppmv per year therefore in 100 years from now the Earth’s temperature “may” have risen by 1.2C, but this can only be achieved if we use the same wrong assumption as that used by the IPCC in their models, based on the Arrhenius supposition relating 0.6C of observed warming directly to a 100ppmv increase in atmospheric CO2 concentration.

    I leave the last words to the the Late, Great, George Carlin on “Global Warming”:

  427. NoIdea says:

    @Dave,Edinburgh on July 2, 2010 at 5:35 pm

    Hi Dave,

    This is probably the appropriate thread; however, the latest one is @

    Thank you for the George Carlin link.

  428. Pointman says:

    Hi Dave, Welcome and thanks for reposting here. At least people can get to read it and discuss. Why not repost it at the end of the latest thread.


  429. Pointman says:

    Dave,Edinburgh July 2, 2010 at 5:35 pm

    Scrub what I said, wait until Ozboy posts a new blog then post it again. It’ll get the discussion it merits.


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