O God-Emperor, Wherefore Art Thou?

Thou, O king, sawest, and behold there was as it were a great statue: this statue, which was great and high, tall of stature, stood before thee, and the look thereof was terrible. The head of this statue was of fine gold, but the breast and the arms of silver, and the belly and the thighs of brass: And the legs of iron, the feet part of iron and part of clay. Thus thou sawest, till a stone was cut out of a mountain without hands: and it struck the statue upon the feet thereof that were of iron and of clay, and broke them in pieces. Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of a summer’s threshingfloor, and they were carried away by the wind: and there was no place found for them: but the stone that struck the statue, became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth.

Daniel 2 31:35

Was it the man, or was it the message? For a while, it seemed as though the former had outgrown the latter. Hitherto merely one more right-leaning commentator, having coined the term Climategate, had made of himself a symbol: to his followers, an icon, “great and high, tall of stature”; to his detractors, a lightning rod for every frustration they felt towards those who doubted the message they were so fervently trying to sell.

It doesn’t occur elsewhere: I take the occasional glance at The Guardian’s Comment Is Unanimous page; no such argument there. Every Climate Change-themed website, every news blog, every chat room devoted to the subject has its champions, to be sure, but none with anything like the cult-like following of our own GE. Right up to the point where Telegate, like that “stone cut out of a mountain without hands”, brought the whole edifice crashing down.

So I though it apposite to take a step back from the fray, draw a deep breath and have a sober, objective and completely factual look at the history of the man behind the image, and his forum that changed the world. How did he—and we—get here?

1948: Daily Telegraph opinion writers walk off the job in protest for better pay and conditions. A teenage GE refuses to participate, is labelled a “scab” and promptly joins the Conservative Party

He wasn’t always a God-Emperor. In fact, the earliest online DT article I could unearth concerned the shortcomings of a former bodybuilder/moviestar-turned-politician, a man famously described by Clive James as resembling “a condom stuffed with walnuts”. It attracted just ten comments.

Industrial action widens as National Union of Opinion Writers walks off in sympathy with DT colleagues. A lone voice, GE (circled), in a tearfully impassioned speech urges striking columnists to return to work. Barely escapes with his life.

From these humble, yet pugnacious beginnings, GE explored a variety of topics, mostly political, attracting little in the way of either celebration or approbation; his first post I could find concerning Al Gore was up to only thirteen comments. Slowly, yet inexorably, our GE was finding his voice.

On and on he puttered, exploring one conservative topic after another. But somehow, he kept returning to Anthropogenic Global Warming. It was as if he had some sixth sense that this theme, above all others, would lead him beyond greatness, to the near side of deification. Even then, he was building a following, albeit tiny. Crownarmourer, Msher1 and Clothilde S were among the earliest adherents. Though usually struggling to attract ten comments per post, the seeds of the legend were already sown.

And then, on Friday, 20 November 2009, the world as we knew changed forever.

1951 Conservative Party National Conference: GE and up-and-coming Tory candidate attend, and their eyes meet across the room. Rumours of brief smouldering affair hotly denied by historians. Critics claim historians nobbled with hush money.

If you own any shares in alternative energy companies, thundered our GE, I should start dumping them NOW. Climategate had arrived!

From there, the blog went viral; 500-700 posts per thread were the norm, with the one thousand mark sometimes topped. Our GE found his moment in the sun, being invited to chat shows, cited and quoted throughout the MSM.

1964: Birth of a revolution: Tasmanian woodcutter suddenly realises that without native forest timber products, world newspaper industry is doomed. Labours in secret in his garage by candlelight to develop paperless “electric newspaper” but fails to lodge patent application. Decades later, British researcher steals plans and rebadges it as “the internet”

And with the traffic came the trolls: every shape, size, colour and disposition. Some were simply spotty young undergrads, filled with righteous certitude and, fresh out of indoctrination from some How To Debate With Climate Change Deniers website, eagerly joined the fray. Faced with more facts than such websites prefer to give their devotees, and more sceptical real-world experience than they were equipped to tackle, this category seldom lasted. Some were more irritating than anything else; one spent so much time camped out on our site that (I am reliably informed) his employers may one day quite possibly receive a polite query regarding their Internet Acceptable Usage Policy, together with a rather lengthy log of posting on their dime. And then there were the truly bizarre: the young woman, apparently infatuated with our GE, who insisted on using her (rather modest) academic credentials against her name on every possible occasion, and her (rather immodest) and unnatural fascination with light bulbs possibly deserves closer attention; that, however, is a dark and disturbing place, to which this chronicler has no wish at all to go. And then there were the professional stalker-trolls; little science background, but lightning with Google searches. The most prominent of these, unmasked (by yours truly) as a Redwar operative, was ultimately and unceremoniously shown the door by a marvellous representative of Popular Technology magazine. Someone buy that man a beer.

1967: GE invited by pop group to collaborate on “concept album”. Unable, however, to keep pace with band members prodigious ingestion of exotic substances, he collapses unconscious, face-first into studio grand piano. This contribution, captured on tape, immortalised in music history as “the chord that goes forever”

The fact is, when the order of battle is tallied, a picture of a very uneven contest emerged. No professional scientist (of which I am aware), neither working engineer nor economist was prepared to put the Warmist case to our blog. Is this not telling? Yet, our own sceptical brigade was overflowing with education and centuries of practical experience in all these fields. It truly was a force to be reckoned with, and the more pity it was that such a disparate yet powerful force, greater than the sum of its parts, was scattered to the winds on the collapse of the format. and the more can we celebrate that portion that remain, here and elsewhere.

NASA satellite data conclusively demonstrate anthropogenic influence on climate: national capital prevents rest of country from sliding into new Ice Age

And even so, it all appeared to be going so well: the debate seemed all but won; an army of willing followers stood at the ready to slay any warmist dragons who dared venture onto his patch. And then, on what would have been Adolph Hitler’s one hundred and twenty-first birthday, he went and wrote this

And thus was the hill crested.

Screened live on prime-time BBC TV, the grand final of smash-hit reality show “Britains Nerdiest Eyewear” results in a unanimous points decision to reigning champion G. Monbiot of mid-Wales. Despite secretly wagering his entire lifes savings on the opposition, GE pursues Monbiot with hatred ever after.

Pride cometh before the fall it is said, though its relevance to this tale may be debated. Some may make the point that he merely did not suffer fools gladly. Others (myself included) may counter with the point that it was we who generated the content, we who put him on his pedestal, and we who kept him enthroned. To those who questioned his acceptance of some sort of gratuity to attend a writers’ conference in the Middle East, he turned his scorn:

And to those of you muppets who accuse me of any kind of cowardice, moral or physical, I should like to raise my middle finger and invite you to swivel thereon……… Your sanctimonious posturing disgusts me more than I can say. I’m glad if you’ve decided no longer to read my blog. You are not worthy of it and you can rot in your smug, safe little beds

Well, anyone can have a bad day I suppose. Openly inviting a reduction in his employers’ adstream revenue though, was probably a bridge too far, and in all likelihood signalled the beginning of the end. And while we could forgive a God Emperor his oddities, there were others in the shadows, mountain-cut stones in their hands, who could not.

Pee Coil: Indonesian waterfowl foolishly goes swimming in the Gulf of Mexico

Like Icarus, our GE was flying too close to the Sun. Unlike Icarus, his eye was probably a little too distracted by Page 3. Wot about them bristols eh?

GEs ceremonial coronation event attended by Bullingdon Club alumni, Quebecois lesbian assassins, Bilderberg participants, Freemason Grand Masters, Fabian Society luminaries, Opus Dei numeraries, delusional ex-vice-presidents and sacrificial rent boys. Photo courtesy D. Hawkins. Rent boys courtesy J. Duckham

Of course, even notwithstanding his peculiarities, it was never going to be allowed to last. The powers-that-be could clearly see the usurpation of their own control over the agenda. News on the blogosphere travels faster than the ability of the Mainstream Media to stamp it out. Something had to be done. And so, with a hack here, a software upgrade there, the Old World reached out its gnarled hands from the black depths it has never left, and dragged our shining new vista down into its own dark, stinking Orwellian abyss.

In a sense, it doesn’t even matter which of the explanations of, or conspiracies behind, the disaster at the DT is closest to the truth. It’s gone now, and with it the magic that motivated so many of us to expend on it our time, our energy, our talent and our experience. He seems to think so too, and no longer deigns to comment on his own threads and offer feedback to those who feed him. I guess that, having tasted, even for a moment, being a GE, it was too big a comedown to revert to being plain old JD. Or that ten minutes or an hour later, his words will be relegated to the electronic equivalent of the dustiest library basement archive. Can’t say I blame him, really.

“I bit the and wot fed me”: sustained campaign against Labour Party results in Pyrrhic victory… Previously Popular Pundit Punished by Public in Perpendicular Plunge into PayPal Penury

And so here we are, at the opposite end of the world, our voices unmuted, our leader (formerly GE) less so. And in some ways, we have come full circle. AGW as an issue is becoming as stale as last week’s bread, but new fields of battle await; foremost among them Anthropogenic Ocean Acidification. Which brings me to my original question: what was it that made our blog what is was? Was it the man, or the message? Or was it the medium itself? I’d venture that the medium had at least as much to do with enabling a meeting of minds from around the world, as did either a (relatively) unknown British conservative columnist, or a (previously) esoteric scientific debate about the effects of carbon dioxide. When the medium changed, the blog for most practical purposes died. But here in the antipodes, and in other places as well, the game continues.

But hey—it really doesn’t matter whether you win or lose that game, but how you play it… 😉

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848 Responses to O God-Emperor, Wherefore Art Thou?

  1. Amerloque says:

    AGW, aka “manmade global warming”, is a scientific, intellectual, political, financial and moral scam. The climate has been changing for millions upon millions of years.

    The IPCC is the biggest perpetrator of scientific fraud that the world has ever seen.

    Individuals and organizations involved in this fraud should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

    Civil suits should be filed to recover grant money and subsidies given to individuals and organizations participating in the fraud.

    Now is not the time to let up !

  2. Edward. says:

    Excoriating analysis Ozboy no wonder you were so long in the formenting of this heresy (smile) article:
    “Ye have left the church!! And therefore ye will be damned!!
    Excommunicated for apostasy and be consigned to the inferno for all eternity!!”

    I must gather my thoughts before commenting further.
    I would add, the lead up to the Dopenhagen debacle and it’s amusingly farcical climax and aftermath lead to;
    1 A great amount of JD’s traffic.
    2. He was (in a minor part) responsible in causing chaos at Dopenhagen and metabolising many of the doubts of luke warmers.
    For me the governor will always be Mr. Watts.


  3. Old Toad says:

    Gosh. A whole new blog on the ‘GE’, someone’s gone to a lot of trouble and I shall have to re-read it thoroughly. Whatever else, our GE can’t be accused of ‘hiding his light under a bushel’ with yesterday’s ‘outburst’.
    If James had been ‘environment correspondent’ of the DT instead of the lovely Geoffrey, he would have had to toe the editorial line and use more measured tones, instead of which you get a gloriously irreverent blog couched in such colourful prose that a respondent on Bishop Hill’s blog felt constrained to repeat it in full.
    Come on you guys, give him a break, the world’s far too full of colourless party apparatchiks !

  4. “Ye have left the church!! And therefore ye will be damned!!
    Excommunicated for apostasy and be consigned to the inferno for all eternity!!”

    Not only that, ozboy, but also Boombah, death by Boombah, tied into a chair and forced to listen to “Just Help Yourself” by Tom Jones 400 times consecutively or until death, whichever comes first, plus no more online porn.

    Noooooooooooooooooo!!!!! Aaaaaaaaarrrrrggggghhhhhh!!!!! – Oz

    Nice go at the Beak Oil slithering, serpentine quackerator and the Flipflopernator, the other immigrant whatziz who probably would have had a successful go at the former Charcoal House (thanks to the Greenjackets Regiment and the Montreal Black Watch Regiment which military units spared the Marine HQ at Eighth and Eye Streets because all 60 of those US Marines stationed there engaged the 1,500 British troops in battle while 1,200 US Army troops looked on in safety from the heights; it’s also why Marines of both the US and the UK share the same dress uniform) had he obfuscated his origins and not disclosed either a birth certificate or a passport .

    The problem runs deeper than JD. Lord Black is getting out of the Husgau shortly and shall reclaim his old empire in full even if he has to set up shop armed only with a mimeograph machine directly across the street from the DT. The present Delirium Tremens newspaper evinces exactly those qualities now: it’s not cohesive, it’s not properly copy-edited, it has NO editorial stance whatever, and it is basically now like the London Review of Kooks, a literary and journalistic prison bitch to nefarious and manipulative Yank interests.

  5. Pointman says:

    The ever readable Errol Morris on unknown unknowns and a lot of other meat. There is intelligence in Tinsel Town.



  6. Edward. says:

    “Delirium Tremens newspaper evinces exactly those qualities now: it’s not cohesive, it’s not properly copy-edited, it has NO editorial stance whatever, and it is basically now like the London Review of Kooks, a literary and journalistic prison bitch to nefarious and manipulative Yank interests.”

    How right you are Walt!………err – ‘my’ newspaper has bitten the dust, I despair it has surrendered to; the EU contol freaks, the AGW crowd, the PC brigade, multiculturalists, Blue Labour/Red Tories and it has no direction (as you have said).
    It is still the best in the poor choice that we have in limey land, I guess that ain’t saying much tho’ (sigh).

    BTW you’re up early or is it that you haven’t gone to bed yet:>)?
    Nosey git that I am – no need to answer – just idle ,very idle speculation -(what business is it of mine?).
    What’s the ‘Liffey water’ like in the States?


  7. Edward. says:

    Pointman says:
    June 26, 2010 at 6:58 pm
    Hello Pointy,

    It may not be relevant but reading that link, reminds me a man’s fallibility and vulnerability, our frailty and how very incompetent we can all be, if everybody was perfect would it not be a boring life?
    I had a conversation with my cousin- a perspicacious, erudite lad, we both agreed on the observation mutually arrived at; that life is much easier to bear if you are oblivious to the rest of the world and how simple life is, when you’re just plain dumb.
    And the more you know, the more that you realise that, newer and ever greater questions will always appear.

    LIFE, it is an infinite quest, some thought Beethoven was mad, he was a grump and suffered fools not at all, he was a driven man and had no time for pleasantries and mundanities……but then, he left such a sublime legacy, even Mohammed would appreciate.
    Who are we to judge?
    “A question that sometimes drives me hazy: am I or are the others crazy?”
    Albert Einstein

    It’s all a big puzzle to me, maybe I just don’t want to know it all.
    I do get pissed off with numpty politicians who tell me what to do, the same with faceless bureaucrats who want to run my life……because they know ‘better’ and use an excuse(s) like AGW to batter me around the head.

    Otherwise, I all for the quiet life, I would never have started blogging if the AGW scam had stayed an academic spat.


  8. crownarmourer says:

    ozboy that art so biting in thine wit and humour.

  9. Old Toad says:

    El Commandante. “No Editorial Stance” – Nail on head !. How that stupid old fart Geoffrey Lean can be allowed to publish his totally disingenuous article this AM, entitled “Will California axe its green plans?” wherein he condemns the 800,000 people who ‘oppose California’s anti global-warming law’.
    On Australia he says ” disillusion with Prime Minister Kevin Rudd, which led to his fall this week, goes back to his shelving of a carbon trading scheme supported by two-thirds of voters in marginal seats”.
    Because JD’s blog appears under the Telegraph banner some folks imagine he represents ‘editorial policy’, sorry chaps, that’s Geoffrey’s job (if it’s anybody’s).
    So how come we a get a little ray of hope every Sunday when the wonderful Booker has his say? – You tell me !
    At least to-day, Louise Gray failed to put our ‘brown lawns’ down to ‘climate change’.

  10. theendisnighnot says:

    Oz….. a superb summary of what appears to have happenned . Can never imagine His Siliness Moonbat of Cloud Cookoo land ever being challenged by his adoring public which appears to consist of a few posters on CIF who may or may not be the same person! I think Moon bat & JD/ex GE should have a fight i’d pay to watch them slapping each other LOL…………. I guess currently he’s a bit like Rooney (shrek) in that he appears to believing his own publicity and forgetting the “small people” (classic BP remark) who assited in his rise to temporary greatness whats the saying “success is temporary and class is permanent”? or something like that.

  11. Edward. says:

    Old Toad,

    “At least to-day, Louise Gray failed to put our ‘brown lawns’ down to ‘climate change’.”

    Not even Ms. Gray is that thick, I am waiting for the first dummy to do so, because I will be down on them like a ton of bricks.
    Remember the great flood of Cumbria……that was global warming……..biggest drought since 1929?……..can’t be AGW as well, scuse the pun:>)
    But then, it is all down to AGW is it not? (cold winters, warm winters, cool oceans, warm oceans, wet summers and now dry summers etc)…….someone will make the link.
    On Lean, his piece on water companies (Fri’ DT) was a load of drivel, he talked of water shortages and then in the same article mentions desalination……..we’ ll never run short of water in Britain, he was correct about leaks (in that we should do more to stop seepage) , that is more to do with profit maximising than water shortages tho’ and he just couldn’t resist a passing mention of ‘alarmist warming’ to come.
    Which according to Joe Bastardi is all a load of codswallop and he (Joe) is right, we are heading for a significant cooling in the next thirty years, computer modellers will shudder in their wellies, so do put a sock in it Geoff, now there’s a good chap.


  12. theendisnighnot says:

    Ed couldn’t agree more just waiting with baited breath (CO2) for some numpty on the BBC or CNN to link the paucity of African nations remaining in the World Cup to AGW. OT but had to laugh this morning when listening to that peculiar man Anderson Cooper who seems to have worn the same black shirt every day since the spill trying to tell Americans that they should still come to the Gulf coz the fish is great as are the beaches etc and then seeming to remember almost mid-sentance this is the greatest catastrophe since catastrophe’s began cue shot of the same three birds!!!! who from now on shall be hereafter refered to the three birds that are known as the three birds

  13. theendisnighnot says:

    Just off for a nice ruby murry at a place called the Cool Docks by the Hangpu river in Shanghai best ruby i’ve had outside B’ham and the local beers not too shabby either!
    Laters…….. note to Oz i will attempt to refrain from posting if i have too much of said local beer… ok if i lurk in that case?

  14. theendisnighnot says:

    Just a final thought whilst her indoors gets ready understand the self appointed saviour of the planet Al (for it is he) Bore has allegedly requested a happy ending to his massage well frankly i don’t believe as when has he ever envisaged a happy ending for the rest of us?

  15. izen says:

    msher says: -from previous thread
    June 26, 2010 at 6:58 am
    “You really want to stand up for the IPCC?”

    No, not particularly.
    As a scientific meta-analysis or systematic review of the relevant papers it lacks rigour. Even the chapter one of the AR reports on the cause and attribution fail to have clearly defined criteria for inclusion and assessment of papers which is common in other efforts to provide an overview of an issue in the field of science.
    Have a look at the Cochrane Reviews for how well it can be done…

    Part of the problem is that the IPCC suffers from confirmation bias. Because it is looking for climate change, it can prefer papers, or interpretations of data that emphasise the link with climate change.

    It is also deeply schizophrenic. While there are some with a desire to talk up the dangers of climate change, scientist frustrated at the political inertia blocking action that seems to exceed the thermal inertia of the oceans…..
    And governments (US, Saudis) resisting the clear statement of scientific findings or deductions because it threatens embedded business interests.

    The result has often been reports that have UNDERESTIMATED the severity of the changes, notably making predictions for temperature rise and sea level change that have proved to be too conservative in the light of later data.
    And statements that imply greater uncertainty in certain conclusions than is really warranted.

    Quote-“…if we take away the multiple IPCC errors, plus the questionable proxy data, plus the hidden decline, plus the questionable temperature measurement stations, do we still have AGW?”

    To quote both Roy Spencer and Lindzen, (not known for warmist alarmism!) the physics is unavoidable, the rise in CO2 provides ~1.2W/m extra energy at the surface so that if nothing else were to influence the climate around 1degC would result.
    Both Lindzen and Spencer contend that as a RESULT of that extra energy some as yet undetected feedback mechanism will negate that temperature change, or at the very least, there will be no positive feedback and the effect is dwarfed by ‘natural’ variability.

    There is no credible science that negates or refutes the thermodynamic effect of the extra CO2. The argument comes down to the impact that has on a very interactively complex climate system.

    So far, reality, in terms of frost-free days, glacier mass balance and the eustatic expansion of the oceans, the real world data has matched better with the science that infers that positive feedbacks will cause the CO2 rise to be amplified into a significant warming rather than the contrarian position that it would be insignificant or swamped by natural variation. While the trend is only about a tenth of the inter-annual variation, it has held consistently for several decades and can be discerned despite the natural variations. This years weak El Nino and growing La Nina during a period of low solar activity is STILL warmer than any similar ENSO/Solar combination in the last century.

  16. scud1 says:

    Nice one Oz!
    A great read and bloody funny. Tell you what though, I think mack, RR, scientificanomoly, bufo et al are doing a sterling job of keeping JDs blog alive and well…these guys really do go to tremendous efforts digging up information and passing on their knowledge.
    I’m really enjoying the cross references between JD and here and I think that Libertygibbert will go from strength to strength…How’s the new office central coming along?

    Hey Ed fella…glad you liked ‘Bob Ward’…perhaps a bit on the puerile side…err, ok completely puerile. Anyway, next week it’s ‘JD spills Monbiot’s pint as Phil Jones once again tries and fails to top himself.’

    Smashing weekend to all.

  17. izen says:

    A general comment on the thread topic.

    The GE was partly instrumental, and partly exploited, a shift in attitudes to AGW over the last year.
    It was this shift in how the issue was framed that I noticed, and encountered in discussions on how the ‘Overton window’ on scientific credibility was being shifted across the board by the attacks on AGW. The repucussions where felt in the far lands of ID/Creationism advocacy who were invigorated by the anti-science attitudes that spilled over from the AGW debate.

    The extreme end of the debate, as seen on JD’s blog is not, or rarely, the destination that an issue will arrive at. But what it does is shift the ‘middle ground’ to a position that might be more acceptable to some of those involved.
    Politics often uses an Overton shift to get unpopular legislation/reform accepted. First a much more radical and extreme version of the desired end is proposed as a ‘possibility’. When the majority outcry against such a proposal has started to ebb, the government can announce that it has ‘listened’ to public comments’ and propose as a ‘compromise’ the changes it had already intended which would have also attracted much opposition, but are now perceived as better than the initial plans…

    JD/GE was engaged in this movement of the Overton window on AGW. There was, and is no chance of his extreme position becoming the scientific, or even the general consensus, but it did have a role in shifting the framing of the debate at a more general level, a change (irrespective of what the climate might actually be doing) that was desired by, or in the interests of some of the players with power in this field.

    An interesting article on paper affiliated blog comments, moderation and poster types here –

    I think I have good arguments for anonymity on blogs, but I would be curious about what other views people may have on this subject.

  18. rastech says:

    Pointman says:
    June 26, 2010 at 6:58 pm

    That was an excellent read!

    I think it comes dangerously close to telling people exactly what’s been going on too . . . . .

  19. ScouseBilly says:


    I’ll second that – great essay, Oz.
    I have mixed feelings about the JD blog.
    Whilst some stalwarts are trying to keep it going, to me, it has been emasculated.
    Nonetheless, it served a purpose and he has a platform to pursue his own career.
    Izen may well be right that it played a part in shifting the “middle ground”.
    More to the point, under the DT banner it made sceptical views in other MSM acceptable and helped enlighten and shift public perception of AGW.

    Now, it is encumbent on the wider scientific community to come out of their closet.
    Signs are encouraging: The Royal Society petition, the solar physicists, the CLOUD experiment preliminary results due out soon. Also the 800,000+ signatories in California and Cucinelli’s pugnacity in Virginia are all encouraging.

  20. ScouseBilly says:


    Thanks. That’s an excellent find.

  21. rastech says:

    izen says:
    June 26, 2010 at 9:34 pm

    “I think I have good arguments for anonymity on blogs, but I would be curious about what other views people may have on this subject.”

    It makes as much sense as being anonymous or even having nothing whatsoever to do with things like Facebook.

    There’s some really nasty nutters out there, and dishing out info that makes it easy for nutters to track you down, doesn’t make any sense.

    I saw one guy do something really, really stupid on Facebook, and made an account specifically to report him and get photographs that he had put up onto Facebook taken down.

    He had posted pictures of his scantily clad young daughter all over the place, and it took less than 5 minutes to find out within a mile, where he lived.

    All with his genuine name.

    Talk about paedophile bait. 😦

  22. theunbrainwashed says:

    Ho ho ho!

    So THAT’s what GE stands fur

    Love the ”Lost Chord” bit dude!
    I musta missed summit methunx

    Love and Peas to paraphrase old BeNiP ate my lunch

  23. theunbrainwashed says:


    Is that the Time!

    I better just go back to Bed!

  24. Edward. says:

    scud1 says:
    June 26, 2010 at 9:09 pm

    scud1, hi kiddo, have a good weekend yer sen (Yorkie speak),

    Only you, Walt and crown make me laugh out loud, your diatribe/story was funny, like I said, feel free to write more (Oz permitting)!
    Phil Jones tries to top himself……yes I think he is that incompetent too (though it was useful in a New Labour administration or government funded entity like the CRU , it works just look how far Rose Gibb got with it or the totally fucking useless John Prescott – his Lordship- to boot!!).


  25. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    A marvellous chronicle of recent events. I wish I’d waited till today to do my block.

    In the previous thread, Msher mentioned GE wanting to be a standard bearer for “the cause”.
    Got me to thinking…….exactly what is a standard bearer and exactly who decides what those standards should be?

    In the military sense, from the Legions of Rome through so many centuries, the bearer of the Standard was an exceptional soldier. He had to be. Only the best and bravest could do the job. The banner/symbol/flag, held high above the heads of combatants, called the men to “hold to the Standard” in the chaos of a battlefield. It was a focus point, told the men which direction to take.
    For that reason, the bearer of such a key rallying point, as commanders plotted their tactics and the soldiers moved accordingly, was always the first target of the foe.
    Take out the standard, take out the bearer and his successors who repeatedly kept it high. Should the standard fall, as chaos and confusion reigned, all would be lost.

    In today’s context, it has a very different meaning…..but maybe not so different after all.

    In our particular AGW issue, various skirmishes have broken out from time to time, but the dissenting voices from scientists of truth and integrity, or ordinary citizens less credulous than others, have been drowned out by the remorseless progress of the Climate Fraud.

    Then a whistleblower at the CRU, at great risk to himself and to whom we are deeply indebted, fashioned a standard/banner/flag to show sceptics the way. The GE, always with an eye on the main chance, picked it up, and held the standard high as a rallying point in the battle over AGW.

    However, as the months have dragged on and the momentum of the Climate Brigade has faltered, rallied and faltered again, GE has been more keen on drawing attention to himself and his cleverness than “holding to the standard” and now he’s waving an empty broomstick.

    And who has picked up that Standard?

    The author and creator of a bloody great blog on the other side of the world.


  26. Edward. says:

    Talking about Prescott, that’s where I might pop in every now and again, he has positioned himself as self anointed AGW proselytiser and champion (cos he went to Kyoto – probably thought it was a pie factory or summat) , trouble is getting onto the blog, don’t think it’s like Guy Fawkes.
    John Prescott, must make Taffs the world over cry in their beer.


  27. Edward. says:

    rastech says:
    June 26, 2010 at 10:57 pm
    Nasty nutters indeed!


  28. Pointman says:

    Line of Descent

    Chapter 7

    It was mid afternoon by the time Krupmeyer drove down the hill into Coole. Another small hamlet, indistinguishable from the host of others he had already driven through that day, except that this one nestled by the shore of the Atlantic. The drive had been long and tiring. He had tanked up in Braghan and had not stopped since leaving there. Parking near the jetty outside a small building, which proclaimed itself to be the Connaught Arms Hotel, he walked into the reception and booked a room for the night. It was really a pub with two rooms upstairs to let but it was clean and comfortable. Upstairs, he unpacked quickly and rang down for Room Service. He had missed lunch on the drive up and was starving. They told him that they hadn’t started dinner yet but could do some sandwiches if he wanted. He said he’d take them down in the lounge.
    The lounge was deserted. He sat alone at the bar and ate the sandwiches with a beer. He showed the barman the address he had for Canfield and received directions from him. It was a bungalow just outside town. He’d probably passed it on the way in, the barman explained. He finished his snack and left.
    He found the house and drove by it slowly. It stood alone far from any other houses. He turned around and drove past it again. It looked deserted. There was a For Sale sign stuck in the grass at the front. He had not noticed it on the first pass. Parking, he walked back slowly to the house, rehearsing a story of being an interested house buyer. He leaned on the iron gate and looked in at the bungalow. It looked pretty good, well looked after but lived in. It would need a coat of paint soon. Off to one side was a large garage or workshop with a double door. Nothing moved. He could feel it was deserted.
    Making a decision, he pushed open the gate and walked up the gravel drive. He knocked on the door but there was no reply, just the echoes of his knock through the empty house. After a while he gave up and walked around to the back of the house. The back garden was large. It contained a swing and a few abandoned childrens’ toys. Krupmeyer thought about it. Eight years. Why not? Canfield had been here long enough to start a family. To start a whole new life. He wondered where they were. Had he decided to run again? It would be harder with a wife and children in tow. Krupmeyer walked over to the garage and peeked in through the side window. It was empty. Row upon row of tools hung neatly on racks attached to the walls. There was a large workbench and the chain of a pulley hung from a roof joist in loops. A workshop of some sort, he decided.
    He considered breaking in for a look but abandoned the idea for the moment. There were other, far less risky avenues he could pursue first. Shrugging, he walked back around to the front of the house and took down the address of the Auctioneer from the For Sale sign. With a final look at the tidy house, he walked back to the car and drove back into Coole. The Auctioneer’s Office was in the small street leading down to the jetty. The old panelled window was filled with details of houses for sale in the area. He went in.
    The office was run by a dapper and very affable man who sat him down and absolutely insisted he take a cup of the tea he was making before they got down to business. When they were settled, Krupmeyer explained he was looking for a house in the area. Something small but with enough room for a couple of children. The man assured him he had come to the right place, he was sure they had something on their books that would suit him fine.
    Krupmeyer launched into a description of the sort of house he was looking for. It matched pretty closely the house he had just visited. The Auctioneer delved into the filing cabinet and after some judicious picking and choosing handed Krupmeyer a small sheaf of papers. Each one had a picture of the property and a brief description. The second one was the one he wanted Canfield’s House. He expressed an interest in several but finally settled on the Canfield bungalow.
    ‘Could I see it?’ he enquired. ‘Of course, I can run you out there now if you want’ the man replied. Krupmeyer told him that would be fine. The man rooted through the drawers of his desk for the keys to the house. He found them after a search, holding them up triumphantly for Krupmeyer to see. He locked up the office and they drove out to see the house in the Auctioneer’s car.
    They parked in the entrance and walked up the drive. The Auctioneer opened the door and waved him in. Inside, it was clean and tidy. A well looked after house. All the furniture and possessions were still in it. They walked from room to room with the Auctioneer extolling the virtues of the house to a distracted Krupmeyer who only listened with half an ear. It was the contents of the rooms he was interested in. Besides the kitchen and living room, the house contained three bedrooms. One was the parent’s, the other two were for the children. From the decor it was obvious one of the children was a girl and the other a boy. Both of their rooms had been strewn with toys. A lot of the toys looked home made. The girl’s room contained a home made dolls house that had been lovingly constructed from what looked like cardboard from cereal packets and other bits and bobs. A family project obviously. It was not yet completed but already was a fine piece of work. Krupmeyer remarked on it to the Auctioneer who for once made no comment.
    They ended up back in the living room. Krupmeyer picked up one of the pictures from the mantelpiece and studied it closely. It was a family picture, taken on holiday somewhere with green brooding mountains in the background. They looked like a normal cheerful bunch. It was the only picture Krupmeyer had seen in the house that had the man in it. The parents stood behind the two children with their hands resting lightly on the children’s shoulders. It was not a very sharp picture. Whoever had taken it had included too much background in the shot, leaving the group dwarfed at the bottom of the picture. It had been taken on a sunny day with the sun directly overhead, making deep shadows in their eye sockets. Krupmeyer studied the man. He looked to be about forty and fairly lean and fit. His faced stared without expression at the camera. The woman looked to be slightly younger. The children were about six or seven, the girl being the oldest. They smiled into the camera without a trace of self consciousness, as only young and happy children can.
    The Auctioneer’s sales pitch had trailed off as Krupmeyer studied the picture. He knew he had lost his attention. He waited patiently in silence until Krupmeyer turned around to show him the picture.
    ‘They look like a nice family’ he remarked putting it back on the mantelpiece. ‘Why are they selling up?’ he asked casually. The Auctioneer shuffled uncomfortably for a moment before replying.
    ‘Well, you might as well know now, as later’ he replied and stopped. His eyes strayed nervously about the room, looking for a way to continue. ‘There was an accident, well not an accident really. Mrs. Harkin and the children were killed. Mr. Harkin wants to sell the house. You can’t blame him, too many painful memories I suppose.’ His voice trailed off into an embarrassed silence.
    ‘What sort of accident?’ asked Krupmeyer.
    ‘There was an explosion in the town, Mrs. Harkin and the children were caught in it. It was a terrible thing.’ He paused at the memory but quickly added. ‘You must understand we’ve never had anything like that happen around here before, never, it’s not as if it’s an everyday occurrence you see’ he added hastily, concerned that a possible sale was slipping away.
    ‘Sure, I understand’ said Krupmeyer nodding. ‘When was it?’ he asked idly.
    ‘It must be seven or eight months now’ he replied. ‘The whole town turned out. It was heartbreaking. Poor Mr. Harkin. He couldn’t even bring himself to go to the funeral. It was the saddest thing. I’ll never forget the two little coffins. It was in all the newspapers.’ He stood there shaking his head. He seemed genuinely distressed at the memory.
    They continued looking about the house with Krupmeyer asking a few questions. The Auctioneer had become subdued perhaps sensing the sale was history. Finally he told the Auctioneer he’d let him know and they drove back to town. Back in the hotel he asked the receptionist for a copy of the local paper. She produced one for him. He leafed through it until he found the telephone number for the paper. He rang from the lobby, asking if they had a morgue of old editions. They had and gave him their address. It was in Donegal Town. He made an appointment to go there the next morning, explaining that he was a freelance reporter doing some research.
    He called Helen that evening. They talked about small things. She was interested in knowing how he was getting on. He began to regret he had not been honest with her from the start and could only say he had not located Conner yet. He thought about her that night and missed her. He thought about Canfield too. The poor bastard. Hiding half way around the world in the back end of nowhere and the shit still homes straight in on him, right on the freaky flukey. He thought about the family photograph. All gone except for the lean sinewy man whose hands rested on the shoulders of his dead child. He wished it had been a better photograph. What had that done to him? The final straw? He fell asleep to dream for the first time in years about the Nam. They were the old familiar cruel dreams, vivid, immediate, violent and ultimately terrifying.
    The next morning he drove to Donegal Town. The newspaper morgue was located in the cellar of a large four story building that housed the newspaper and the printing presses. He called in on the editor first. He was a chatty man who nodded a lot as Krupmeyer spoke, not believing his story for a minute, but agreed to let him into the files. The editor was pleased to help him but made it clear that if he came up with anything of local interest he would like a piece of it. Krupmeyer agreed but refused to elaborate on exactly what he was interested in. They showed him where the back issues were kept and how to find his way about the indexing system. He had assumed he would have to plough through the back issues until he reached the reports of the explosion but was pleasantly surprised to find that the complete contents of the morgue were indexed. By looking up Coole in the index, he soon found out which editions had reported on the explosion. It was probably the most coverage the village had ever received from the papers in the whole of its existence.
    He read his way through them, taking notes and looking at the pictures. There were none of James Michael Harkin. He was described as being too distressed to leave the house and under the care of a doctor. Krupmeyer had known that Canfield would never allow pictures of his face to appear in all the papers reporting the incident. It had been a car bomb. The driver was named as a Ryan MacColgan. He was described as a member of the Provisional IRA. The supposition was that the bomb had gone off on him while he had been transporting it somewhere. The Harkin family had just been unlucky to be in the wrong spot at the wrong time. Krupmeyer remembered a phrase he had heard an interpreter use in Vietnam. Budda turned his face away from them and they died. Budda or God it all amounted to the same thing. The slaughter of the innocents.
    They had been buried in the graveyard in Coole and the Auctioneer was right, there had been a big turn out. He was right about the little coffins too, they were heart rendering. Krupmeyer went back to the start and reread every article again. Nothing new emerged. He read over his notes carefully before putting the bound editions back.
    On the way out, he called in on the editor again to thank him and repeated his promise to give him a piece of anything if the article panned out.
    He drove back to Coole, stopping in at the Auctioneers to ask if there was any way of getting in touch with Mr. Harkin. He had a few questions.
    ‘No’ the man replied. ‘He’s in England somewhere. I don’t have an address. He gives me a ring once in a while. I can probably answer any questions you’ve got though’ he offered hopefully. The prospect of a sale coming back from the dead lit up his face.
    ‘No, that’s all right’ Krupmeyer replied and went back to his room at the hotel.
    He paced around the room turning over various ideas. He could not come up with any fresh avenues of search except for the Auctioneer who did not seem to know much about where exactly Canfield was. Krupmeyer was sure Canfield would not give the Auctioneer an address. What was he doing in England, he wondered? He decided to visit the graves. After asking directions from the Receptionist, he drove out of town.
    The graveyard surrounded the local church, which sat perched on the brow of the hill leading down to the village. It gave a fine view out to sea. Chill gusts of wind were blowing in from the Atlantic. He walked around the graveyard until he found their graves, sheltering in the lee of the church. They had all been buried in a single family plot. It was not very big or impressive, just a headstone and a white stone border framing the plot. Green chippings of some kind filled in the frame and in the middle of them was a metal vase containing some flowers. They were due a change soon. It all looked new and well looked after and sad as hell.
    Ruth Louise Harkin. She had been thirty five when she died. Krupmeyer wondered how she and Canfield had met. Underneath her name were the names of the children, Moira and Sean. They had been six and five years old respectively. At the bottom of the headstone was an inscription. It was in Gaelic. He was trying to puzzle out its meaning when he heard the crunch on the gravel path of someone coming up behind him. It was a priest wearing the old black cassock of his profession. They exchanged greetings.
    ‘Are you a relation?’ he asked Krupmeyer indicating to the plot. Krupmeyer decided to stick with his story of being a freelance reporter. He introduced himself and told him he was researching the effects of the troubles in the north on the bordering counties of the south.
    ‘I see’ replied the priest looking down at the grave. He stood in front of it, rocking back and forth on his heels with his hands pressed deep into the pockets of the heavy robe. His lips pressed together severely in thought. Krupmeyer asked him what the inscription meant. ‘Anseo lui mo chroi’ the priest read it aloud and after a pause supplied the translation Here lies my heart. He turned without moving his feet to look at Krupmeyer for emphasis. ‘It does too’ he said. Krupmeyer asked if he had known them.
    ‘I did indeed, I knew them well’ he replied looking back to the grave. ‘A fine happy family. It was a terrible thing. God forgive them all’ he said with a slow shake of his head. Krupmeyer said he would like to interview Mr. Harkin. The priest doubted that would be possible, Mr. Harkin had gone away.
    ‘Do you have any idea of how I might get in contact with him?’ asked Krupmeyer. The priest considered the question for so long that Krupmeyer began to wonder if he had ever heard it in the first place. He finally answered, his eyes never leaving the grave as he spoke.
    ‘He’s a decent man. What’s been done to him and his loved ones can’t be undone, but he can be left in peace. Give him that, will you?’ he said and Krupmeyer heard the trace of tired anger in his voice. ‘And no, I don’t know where he is, and if I did, I don’t think I’d be telling you anyway.’
    There was not much point in Krupmeyer pressing him further. He told him it was all right, he didn’t need to see Mr. Harkin in person. He could get all he needed elsewhere. They talked for a while about small things until eventually the conversation ran down naturally and the priest bid him good-bye. He walked back along the path and into the church. Krupmeyer stood for a while at the grave and then left to drive back into the village.
    He ate his dinner alone in the lounge of the hotel. Afterwards he went up to his room. He was lying on top of the bed turning over the day’s events when there was a knock at his door. Crossing the room he opened it. Three men stood in the hall. They pushed the door wide open and marched into the room. The last one in, closed the door and leaned against it, his arms folded. He was big and beefy with a wide farmer’s face. The other two advanced on Krupmeyer and stopped a few feet from him.
    ‘Somebody wants to talk to you’ the smaller of the two announced. Calling him small would have been a compliment, he was actually very small. A real shorty. He paused, doing his best to radiate menace.
    ‘You’re going to come quietly, aren’t you’ he continued, opening his jacket theatrically, just enough to show the butt of the old revolver tucked into his waistband. Krupmeyer sized up the situation in a leisurely fashion. The last thing he felt was threatened. He was a big man physically and his experience in the services and police had taught him how to use his size effectively in a brawl. He had no doubt there would be a hell of a racket if they tried to take him by force.
    He smiled at the thought of throwing the little runt out through the window and into the street. That would be more than enough to bring help running. On the other hand, this had to be something related to Canfield, it might give him a new lead. As things stood, he had reached a dead end. He decided to go with them but to make Shorty work for it.
    ‘You should keep your cannon tucked in your belt at the back’ he offered. ‘You stand less chance of blowing your balls off’ he explained with a hard grin. Shorty did not like that, Krupmeyer was supposed to be frightened. Things were not going according to plan. The big man leaning on the door grinned at Shorty’s discomfort. Shorty decided to change tack.
    ‘We’re not going to hurt you’ he said. A slight whining tone entered his voice. ‘We just want to talk, that’s all. Talk.’
    Krupmeyer paused just long enough before agreeing. They left the room with Shorty leading the way and the other two flanking Krupmeyer. They left by the fire exit at the back of the hotel. By the time Krupmeyer and the two other men squeezed into the back seat of the car parked there, there was not much room left. They told him to put his hands in his trouser pockets. The big man pulled a black hood out of his jacket pocket and put it over Krupmeyer’s head.
    ‘Can’t have you seeing where we’re going now, can we’ he explained cheerfully. They pushed his head down between his knees and held it there. Krupmeyer felt reassured. It would have been pointless to take the precautions if they just intended to kill him. Shorty drove.
    The drive lasted about twenty minutes but it could have been longer or shorter. Krupmeyer lost track of time as he sat wedged between the two men in darkness. It was difficult to breath in that position. Eventually, they slowed down and turned off the road into a gravel drive. He heard the crunch of the tyres on it. They helped him out of the car and hustled him into a house. He felt a chair being pushed up hard against the back of his knees and sat down heavily. The hood was ripped off his head.
    He sat, blinking in the sudden brightness, getting his bearings. He was sat at a table. Across it, an elderly man sat looking at him. He had a pale world weary face with white wispy hair. Shorty stood beside the table. The two others were leaning with folded arms against the wall of the room and watching Krupmeyer confidently. Nobody said anything for a while.
    ‘I got him, Da, no trouble’ Shorty announced breaking the long silence. The elderly man’s eyes widened slowly. He turned to look at Shorty, an expression of restrained anger growing in his face.
    ‘Thank you son’ he said with exaggerated politeness, putting the stress on the last word. ‘Why don’t you tell him all our names and where the hell he is, when you’re at it?’ he suggested. By now his voice had risen to an angry roar. He glared in the ensuing silence at Shorty who quickly wilted under the thunderous stare.
    The elderly man turned back to Krupmeyer. He looked at him for a while, composing himself and allowing the anger to drain away completely before addressing him.
    ‘Mr. Krupmeyer,’ he announced ‘you’ve been asking questions about James Harkin.’ He leaned forward onto the table. His elbows rested on the edge and he leaned his chin onto the steeple he made with his hands. ‘Tell me why you’ve been asking questions about James Harkin.’ He sat there patient and immobile waiting for an answer. He had all the time in the world.
    ‘I want to interview him for a story I’m doing’ said Krupmeyer sticking to his cover.
    ‘Bollocks’ the elderly man pronounced carefully, without altering his frozen posture in the slightest. He said it without rancour or emotion but with judicial finality.
    ‘Try again, Mr. Krupmeyer, we’ve got all night.’ His grey watery eyes stared patiently into Krupmeyer’s. Krupmeyer returned the stare while his mind turned over the options. He decided to deal.
    ‘James Harkin is not his real name. He’s ..’ The man held up his hand, silencing Krupmeyer. He turned to the big man lounging against the wall.
    ‘Take the boys outside for a walk. Don’t go far, but stay out of the house until I call you in.’ They shuffled out closing the door behind them. He waited until it had clicked shut before turning back to Krupmeyer.
    ‘Now, Mr. Krupmeyer, you were about to tell me who James Harkin really is.’ Krupmeyer gave him the story. He listened carefully asking no questions while Krupmeyer spoke. At the end he got up and walked slowly over to a jacket hanging on the back of the door. He took out a pipe and a pouch of tobacco and came back to the table. Sitting down, he carefully filled the pipe with tobacco. He lit up and stretched his legs under the table, resting the elbow of the arm holding the pipe in the palm of his other hand. He asked a few questions. Krupmeyer answered them.
    He puffed slowly on the pipe as he digested what he had heard. Eventually he turned to Krupmeyer and said, ‘Mr. Canfield, as he should now be called, will not be giving any interviews, I’m afraid.’
    ‘Why not?’ asked Krupmeyer.
    The man considered for a moment before answering. ‘We didn’t kill his family Mr. Krupmeyer, the Brits did. He’s going after them. I wish him luck.’
    ‘By us you mean the IRA?’ asked Krupmeyer.
    ‘The Provisional IRA’ he answered. ‘There’s a distinction, you know.’ There was definitely the air of a schoolmaster about him. Krupmeyer, like most Americans, knew little or nothing about the ins and outs of Irish politics. It was just something that turned up occasionally on the TV news or was the subject of a special report, once in a blue moon. The last thing he needed were complications from this area.
    ‘The papers said MacColgan blew himself up, the British weren’t involved’ offered Krupmeyer, hoping to goad him into giving out more of the story. Always play dumb to a smartass, he reminded himself, and they’ll never be able to resist telling you everything you want to know. It was always the manipulators who were the most easily manipulated.
    ‘Ah, the papers’ the man said with a patronising smile. ‘Don’t you just enjoy a good piece of fiction. No, the Brits planted the bomb. We know it and they know it. The Harkins were just a cherry on top. All that bad publicity and public outrage about the innocent bystanders. I don’t think they were even intended. MacColgan never came anywhere near bombs, he was just an organiser, a fund raiser. We’ve got an endless supply of young buckos for bombs and that sort of thing. No. We need money, like any large organisation. MacColgan was a money man. They targeted him and took him out. The Harkins were just what’s that darling expression you Americans have? Collateral damage. That’s it, Collateral damage.’ He finished with a bitter smile.
    ‘Look,’ said Krupmeyer ‘if Canfield’s gone to England to get the man who planted the bomb, the odds are stacked against him. On the other hand if I can get him back to the States, he’ll be giving evidence before a Congressional Commission. He’ll be on TV, coast to coast stuff, you can bet your ass on it. The whole story will come out there, live on TV, to millions of people. Surely that publicity outweighs any outside chance he has for revenge?’
    The man thought it over carefully. The room had gradually filled up with blue smoke from the pipe. ‘Even if I point you in the right direction, I don’t think you’re going to persuade him. He didn’t strike me as a man who was going to be diverted. Not at all.’ He shook his head slowly, clicking the stem of his pipe against his teeth.
    ‘You met him?’ asked Krupmeyer.
    ‘Oh, I met him all right’ he said with a rueful smile. ‘Or should I say, he met me. Found me to be exact. Not a nice experience, I can assure you.’ He looked at Krupmeyer, opening his eyes wide and arching his eyebrows to emphasise how unfunny the whole thing had been.
    ‘I’ve got a first class alarm system around this house, the best money can buy and he went through it like it wasn’t there. I woke up to find him holding a butcher’s knife to my throat.’
    ‘You convinced him you weren’t responsible?’ asked Krupmeyer.
    ‘I wouldn’t be here otherwise, believe you me’ he replied with a snort. ‘I gave him a name. Bingham. We’re sure he was in charge of the hit. He went after him. Came back a few weeks later. Wanted some help before going to England.’
    ‘What sort of help?’ asked Krupmeyer.
    ‘He wanted a safe house and an arms cache. I gave him an address but not a cache, of course. Arranged a delivery of a few weapons instead. It was a small outlay, call it a small investment. You never know.’ he finished. There was something about that reply that bothered Krupmeyer but he could not quite put his finger on it at that moment.
    ‘What was the address?’ he asked instead. The man thought it over. While he did so his fingers tapped the underside of the table distractedly. With a final sharp tap he made a decision. He gave Krupmeyer the address. Krupmeyer wrote it down. The man stood up, ending the meeting.
    ‘Good-bye Mr. Krupmeyer, I wish you luck’ he said extending his hand. Krupmeyer shook it, at a loss for a suitable reply. Suddenly, the question that had been eluding him sprang to mind.
    ‘One last thing’ he said. ‘As far as you knew he was just James Harkin, a nobody. Why’d you help him?’
    The man looked at Krupmeyer speculatively before settling on a suitable reply. His tongue flicked out to lick his bottom lip in the first nervous gesture Krupmeyer had seen him make.
    ‘He impressed us with his potential’ he finally replied but Krupmeyer could see he was being evasive.
    ‘And how exactly did he do that?’ asked Krupmeyer growing more curious as he watched him searching for another suitable evasion and abandoning the search.
    ‘He came back with Bingham’s head’ he replied simply. With that, he left the room and came back in with Krupmeyer’s escorts. The last thing Krupmeyer saw before the hood was placed on his head again, was the man’s expressionless face looking at him thoughtfully. Krupmeyer wondered how much of the story he’d actually got. They drove him back to the hotel, leaving him at the back in the yard.


  29. theendisnighnot says:

    Pointman…… sheer bloody brilliance!

  30. fenbeagle says:

    Ah…..But do you have a flag?…

  31. Pointman says:

    @theendisnighnot – Thank you, glad you’re enjoying it.


  32. theendisnighnot says:

    Angela Merkel, Boris Becker, Franz Beckanbeuar, Mercedes Benz, BMW, Audi, adolf whathisname, the autobahn, Munich Beer Festival, efficiency, er our Royal family your boys took a hell of a beating……… well one can but dream and btw good luck to the USA tonight and btw2 its football not soccer!

  33. Pointman says:


    An interesting article on football, the new Europe and a fairly decent joke about Heaven and Hell to boot!



  34. theendisnighnot says:

    Pointman don’t suppose theyre’s any chance of this appearing in the papers tomorrow? No didn’t think so ! WTF is going on? I’ve never ever seen anything like this mountains of evidence its a fraud and yet complete (almost) silence from the 4th estate the same people who shed light on all sorts of scandals over many many years. I actually don’t think of it as a conspiracy as such more lazy group think on a subject which has so many potential financial advantages if you toe the line .and so many disadvantages if you don’t. I guess its human nature to want to feather your own nest especially if you can do it the lazy way with other peoples feathers!

  35. Amanda says:

    Ozboy: Love your article! The photos are perfect and the captions are of course hilarious (I especially enjoyed the string of alliteration using the letter P). Your central insight — about the medium as the magnet keeping blogger and cause together and drawing in the committed as well as the merely curious — is bang on, I think.

    I’ve only followed the DT blogs at all since about August of last year (anything to distract me from the heat of Houston). I was looking for enlightened entertainment, you might say. I flitted around but found myself going often to James’s page because — Old Toad will approve of me here — he quite clearly has a sparkling personality and a lively interest in various things — *not* a one-note charley — and I really enjoyed that. (Subsequently I discovered that Gerald Warner is also a free-shooting firecracker.) Now and then James would write things that would make me think ‘golly, can they really say that at the DT? I guess they can’ — but what did I care? Then shortly after Christmas the blog started really heating up as the anti-AGW lightning rod, and while it was still engaging, it was becoming a different blog. In some ways I preferred the ‘old’ one, which was lighter-hearted and more varied and, if you like, more expressive of the brightness of James’s personality. If I may say so among friends, I’m not sure that the anti-AGW campaign, valuable as it is, has brought out the best in James’s blog as a blog. Even before it was savaged by the new, regressive comment format. When James was a blogger hitting his own themes at his own whim and at his own pleasure, you never knew what he was going to say next, and that was fun. Then came the weight of responsibility and a certain sameyness — among the comments as much as anything — and the entertainment value that I frankly looked for wasn’t there to the same extent. Now I feel it’s nearly gone altogether — which goes to show the importance of the ‘comment club’ to the entertainment. And that in turn depended on the right medium, the playground that made the play possible.

  36. ScouseBilly says:

    It gets even better with the comments.

    “And nothing here about the announcement of his death by the police (later denied) BEFORE he was “found” dead. (Oops) And nothing about a powerful secret services radio signals post set up in Dr Kelly’s garden – again, before he was found dead. It was a radio signal that couldn’t be intercepted. Why was this needed? And why were the ONLY messages known to be sent from it, to Tony Blair updating him on events, while he was in his government plane, on an overseas mission? And nothing about a female colleague of Dr Kelly’s who was mysteriously found dead, having “jumped” through her bedroom window, apparently having been warned off. She called someone to say if she was found dead to report her fears. That person has also been shut up.

    This whole saga stinks to high heaven, and BLAIR is one stinky fish in the centre. That seventy year gag order should be lifted forthwith before any witnesses are disappeared.
    – Rosemary, London, England, ”

    Somehow reminds me of a certain captainsherlock…

  37. Walt O'Brien says:

    Edward. says:
    June 26, 2010 at 7:06 pm

    No problem. I work strange hours owing to enjoying the freedom of freelancing. My ability to mess up my waking hours orientation I have down to an art form LOL! In the course of my day, however, it is impossible to get detailed work done with any degree of efficiency between the hours of 8 AM and 5 PM. You just get your rhythm when the phone rings, that sort of thing.

    As for Liffey water and other funzie-wunzies, I used to be big on the Samuel Adams (a Northeastern USA brew) and Samuel Smith at room temp and Oban, and I love my ciggies, but I have parked them both owing to attempting to reverse retinal damage from all those years in welding galleries as a white-collar oaf (what they call “flash”). For my ciggie substitute I have switched over to electronic cigarets or e-cigarettes, which are basically nicotine atomizer/inhalers that are battery powered and look like metal ciggies. They have a far, far stronger kick owing to their higher nicotine content, but interestingly, I have found through my researches that nicotine isn’t the problem at all in the health hazard department. It’s not associated directly with any disorders, though it’s what’s used to down lions at the zoo when the President needs a new rug or ceremonial robe, so I suppose it has its, erm, downside.

    It’s been six weeks off the normal ciggies and it has made a huge difference and I have to fight being an anti-ciggie nazi as I know what bloody nuisances such people are and can be. Nobody else’s habits are any of my business, which is right and polite and the only acceptable point of view, IMHO. I don’t know what’s right for other people as I don’t really care and I don’t pay their bills and they don’t work for me so I’ve no right to tell them what to do. Radical concept, innit? It’s yet another attitude of mine which has landed me in sticky positions where idiots take a swing at you out of the blue.

    Left on right (or red on blue) violence outnumbers the right on left violence 100 to one. Leftists cannot stand to have their “moral right” to tell you what to do challenged in the least. The main reason, which I have been trying to tell people for the past 40 years to no avail because they do not want to hear it, is that the churches and missionary networks are the financial and logistical and moral support of global Marxism’s survival. Why? Because there is money in it, big money. The environmental movement and specifically AGW’s continued existence as a social, political, and religious doctrine is entirely funded by investment portfolios held by firms which have traditionally handled church pension funds and real estate investments.

    This is why no fact nor team of investigators are going to bounce the AGW golden train to Hell off the tracks, any more than McCarthy and today’s Conservatives could hope to stop the self-flagellating death-wish made flesh of Marxism from triumphing in the West. There really is no opposition. It’s like in the short story by Nathaniel Hawthorne called “Young Goodman Browne.” It’s worth looking up. All you have to do is read that and “Moby Dick” and you know all there will ever be to know about American world views and approaches to problems. All Ahab had to do was go into shipbuilding or sail maintenance or chandlery work and forget about the G-D whale, and it wasn’t the whale he was hunting, anyway, it was his mocking wife in proxy he was hunting. If you recall your Bible, Ahab was the cuckolded priest married to Jezebel, anyone in the 1840’s when “Moby Dick” came out would have caught the reference.

    American literature and American thought have not changed one wit since Cotton Mather’s day, and before that, when Cromwell’s more dimwitted killer zombies unleashed their venom on anyone having fun without their permission in the Realm of the Crown. We had one window of about 30 years when realism and actual people were subjects of literary craft here, from 1920 to 1950, and those writers were most definitely not leftists or Modernists by any means by today’s warped and twisted standards, they felt and thought as I do now. Today we are back to the SOS of Matherland and Leave It To Beaver Marxism: allegories, testimonials, pilgrimage tales and jeremiads.

    It’s why I am drawn to the UK and the Commonwealth and also to “exploitative immigrant hordes” such as Southeast Asians of the Francophone variety, French-speaking Africans, Russians, Czechs, and Hungarians, and non-Mexican Hispanics.

    These nicotine e-ciggies are a case in point. There is no excise tax on them (half the cost of a pack of ciggies is tax or more, right?), they give a far better nicotine buzz, which isn’t a buzz at all, they focus your attention, that’s why people smoke in the first place, they are a reality-control perceptual tool, yet regular ciggies hardly do any of the things now which the nicotine e-ciggies do well.

    My career path has been to flee cognitive dissonances such as the above as vigorously as possible, and it has worked so far.

    There is no way for humanity to escape the infinite corridor of lies it has crafted for itself through not only AGW but in the construct of the economic Marxist Ponzi scheme for “offing the man” of which Madoff is the ultimate incarnation and new Moshiach for the brainless. We head for another “L’ange du foyer”-motivated Max Ernst expression of frustration and rage the middle classes call war and I call their maximum level of possible emotional maturity which I blame entirely on their upbringing in their homes under the guidance of their parents which is directed by the churches and educational institutions and which in turn are financed and chartered by the Rolls Royce Reds.

    BTW, REALLY good writing here. Again, I put forth the poser: we’ve three novels underway, now some wonderful skits or “blackouts” as they used to be called by Scud1 and others. Ozboy needs a budget to take this Hollywood. What part of the words “literary agent” do we not understand, please? A typical advance on a novel in the UK is around 20,000 to 40,000 English pounds. Sterling. Full stop. That’s not including the royalties.


    Just don’t use http://www.pfd.co.uk Those are the Delirium Tremens’ lit agents, though I do love Sir Max Hastings’ work, always have.

  38. Edward. says:

    Evening all (or whatever time it is in your neck of the woods)!

    I am cognisant of the fact that many people here will have read this blog post, if you have not then if you are anti – the crap pumped out by politicians about AGW, then you should have a gander:

    “All in all, the notion of “post-normal science” seems like a complete contradiction in terms or a perversion of the standard definition of science as commonly understood. It appears to be an elaborate and dishonest attempt to pass off the preferences of a single group as some kind of pseudo-science. There’s a much simpler term for this dishonest phrase: politics. Post-normal science is nothing but a cheap and lying term for a political diktat; for the rule of the self-appointed over everyone else. Whatever truth “Global Warming” may contain it has surely been damaged by its association with this disreputable and vile concept which brazenly casts aside the need for any factual basis and declares in the most unambiguous terms that whatever values it chooses to promote constitutes a truth unimpeachable by reality and a set of values that none dare challenge.”
    Richard Fernandez.
    With thanks to catweazle.

    @ ScouseBilly says:
    June 27, 2010 at 3:02 am

    The stink from this affair rises to the heavens, it does need serious scrutiny, New Labour capped it with concrete – a thousand yards thick, yet still the stench pervades. There were some ‘dubious’ (to say the least) goings on and I will leave it there.
    The death of Dr. Kelly was very sad, for his family’s sake and the fact that I am not qualified to say anything more, I will let it rest, it is and must be for others to pursue and pursue it, I certainly hope they (The Mail) will do so.


    “More shennanigans at the IPCC. Why am I not surprised …”

    Q. What is the greatest source of heat in the solar system?
    A. I think the word solar gives it away:>)
    (OK OL, plasma as well!)

    It is not in the script, therefore the IPCC buries it, one physicist? What a joke!

    “A total of six further peer-reviewed papers were dismissed by the IPCC for inclusion. At least one of the papers, by leading solar expert Hans Svensmark totally contradicted the IPCC’s conclusions that the Sun was not a key player in climate change.”

    Just not cricket or science is it?


  39. Walt O'Brien says:

    Perhaps for the forces of anti-AGW to work, the Les Grossman approach ought to be adopted, as given here in a collection of superb performances by Tom Cruise, who I think has found his ultimate character in the form of this fictitious Hollywood producer and superb customer relationship manager:

    WARNING: Not for the faint of heart. Maybe 70% of my onsite contract supervisors when I was rented out by agencies were just like Les or worse (I’ve been assaulted four times in the workplace, all four times by supervisors wearing blue shirts with rolled up sleeves). To be fair, most of the work I did and do as a construction cost estimator and development spreadsheet artist is either situation turnaround, alternative scenario development or crash marketing offensive related.

  40. Walt O'Brien says:

    The green thang is identical to the Concordat the Reich required churches to sign in order to keep their doors open there and throughout the Reich. Churches had to sign off on similar ideological charters in the Warsaw Pact countries after WW II.

    Why others refuse to see it baffles and amazes me. You have only to Gargle “socially responsible investment funds” then take a look at their account lists to see the truth.

    If you wish to do the agency approach to getting up a war chest through the sweat of your literary brows, the best lit agency in the States is http://www.greenburger.com Even Gargle hides under the bed when the Greenburger folks are on the line. They make Les Grossman look mellow. They rep the estate of the Joyce family and Jean Paul Sartre and a bevy of other heavy hitters. NO ONE is crazy enough to freeload and otherwise rob digital non-rights to Greenburger literary properties.

    My best guess is that they are watermelons, too, but that doesn’t mean they wouldn’t murder for a shot at the repping of rights for “Das Kapital” or “Mein Kampf,” if those weren’t public domain. Money is money in the media business. You also have to play it their way or they disappear, which means absolute submission format compliance and being quiet while they talk.

  41. Edward. says:

    Yo Walt,
    “What part of the words “literary agent” do we not understand, please? A typical advance on a novel in the UK is around 20,000 to 40,000 English pounds. Sterling. Full stop. That’s not including the royalties.”

    Must admit I have wondered myself, (what about it pointy?).
    This may seem like er a bit green (how horrid! – r pronounced like a w) but I thought the ‘Land of the Free’ was a commie free zone, what would Tricky think?

    In the UK, I lay the blame (somewhat) at the dismantling of the English education system (the whirlwind fruits of which we are beginning to reap) on the rise in wishy washy Socialism, its tentacles have reached deep into society and so many people are reliant upon the state because of the infantilization of many of today’s citizens…….. and I go further and say that this is and has been a deliberate policy.
    It well suits the commissars in the EU politburo, that the people of this most wilful and independent State in Europe is dumbed down and browbeaten into submission but WTF who’s gonna bail them out of the shit next time??
    There is still hope though, all is not lost, some Universities have maintained standards and will not allow the riff raff into their hallowed halls of academia.
    And the strong streak of independence still burns bright among some.
    A sad thing for Britain is the breakdown of the Union, because we are in sum a greater whole, the Socialists started this blasted experiment and it will end in the Unions demise, which again plays into the hands of the EU nomenklatura, fuckers.

    “Cromwell’s more dimwitted killer zombies” I thought you left all that behind on the Mayflower steps:>))
    I have oft’ thought that the puritanical streak in the English is their Achilles heel, we cannot truly let our hair down without feeling guilty but my Irish side says, no it’s not a bad thing, certainly sobriety, with wit is a good combination, thinking that drink and shagging is the be all and end all is not the way to go in life to be a success or to win owt.

    Gonna tarry in the garden for a while, have a cold one, enjoy the last of the day, it was glorious here, temp’s in the seventies and with a long cooling summer evening gotta take advantage, will be back, this is a desk top you understand.


  42. Edward. says:

    “Angela Merkel, Boris Becker, Franz Beckanbeuar, Mercedes Benz, BMW, Audi, adolf whathisname, the autobahn, Munich Beer Festival, efficiency, er our Royal family your boys took a hell of a beating……… well one can but dream and btw good luck to the USA tonight and btw2 its football not soccer!”

    Way to go theendisnighnot!


  43. Pointman says:

    Walt, Ed, I wrote Line of Descent a long time ago when there was a lot of things I really needed to let go of before they ate me alive. It was a full stop, a precursor of the troll cage, I threw everything in it and it set me free so I could have a go again at things.

    You guys and the ‘Team’ are the only ones who’ve ever read it since it was written, it was always private but if it can help this blog, it’s gratis.


    Pointy—I’m more grateful than I can say. After the writing contest concludes (Friday everyone!) I’ll enshrine your story (and noidea’s, scud’s and anyone else’s who submits one) in a separate section on the blog. If anyone expresses interest in publishing them, of course I’ll forward their details to you – Oz

  44. scud1 says:

    Just been trawling over Monbiot’s offending article again…scroll down the usual crap and you’ll come across an apparently new ‘troll’ who’s handle is ‘spacedout’…His last comment is thus:

    26 Jun 2010, 8:44PM
    “Mr cannaman @ 26 Jun 2010, 8:10PM:
    One of your number asks why I have not – apart from one deleted entry on an earlier thread – appeared before on this comments section. And now you have your answer – you have given the answer. In attempting to engage with warmists, it always ends up descending to the ad hominem, with nothing resolved.
    You, with your ilk, refuse to accept that the IPCC has made a serious error – and to cover your discomfort resort (as you have done in your post above) to more and more elaborate insults.
    Sadly, it is all too easy to get dragged down to your level, which is mildly entertaining for a short while, but basically unproductive. Thus, you can keep your comments section – I will not waste my time here any longer. The battle continues elsewhere. Eventually, you will lose but, when you have lost, you will not even realise it.
    Do not bother to respond to me here. I will not be reading it.
    Richard North (Dr)”

    Guess it may not be the good doctor, though if he’s an impersonator he was doing a damn fine job.

  45. Ed.

    “…drink and shagging is the be all and end all…” Well, maybe not, but it beats a kick in the shins. I think worse came into being on and after the Mayflower. If you don’t think so, you need to talk to Seneca or Iroquois tribal members about their dealings with the Puritans, which dealings were far from Puritanical to the nth power. Stephen King couldn’t write the script for Pilgrim/Indian relations, but the short form of it is the reason there was a French and Indian Wars is most of the aboriginal Americans wanted French governance back; part of the key to the success of the Quebec and Canadian economies is their equitable dealings by comparison with how we did it here, or rather, didn’t.

    As far as British puritanical inclinations, in my mind there was never any doubt concerning the reality of it, that it was a masque donned to heighten the thrill of transgression while deepening the joy of living in perfect hypocrisy. Transgression and hypocrisy were ye aulde complete basis of the appeal of Victorianism in the first place, not its weakness, as well as the only social philosophy that perfectly understood the primacy of nifty elaborate women’s underwear to maintaining national political stability. Adults like playing dress-up more than kids do. Perhaps the key to understanding why the 60’s and 70’s were so violent resides in contemplation of that fact, that and the boredom factor.

    Pointman says:
    June 27, 2010 at 6:53 am

    It’s an awfully nice read. If you’ve not made a pence off it, you should take heart in the fact I learned today, that both John Lennon and Paul McCartney lost all rights to their own published songs around 1971 or so forever. I had to stop and think about that one a bit.

    I mean, why write or compose at all? Because creative people OWE the public or some such garbage? Because it is a duty to humanity to improve the quality of life unpaid (they were not and those who survive are not starvelings by any means, but THAT could have happened, too, quite easily, with but one stroke of the pen).

    What’s a wonder is that, if this sort of thing is going on routinely in the industry, and no doubt it is, murder on an epic scale simply in defence of one’s own intellectual property is not a daily occurrence. I think the only reason the US Justice Department takes a dim view of the Great Gargle Book Robbery is that as the controlling body for the FBI, they simply don’t want to be burdened with all the murder investigations which will result from the success of Gargle having their way with the world’s literature.

    Pointman, if you’d like me to pitch the manuscript, I would be happy to give it a go, or better yet, just hook you up with an agent. You’ve my e-mail address, right?

  46. crownarmourer says:

    Walt now now Cromwell was just misunderstood and the fact that he destroyed ancient customs such as dancing around phallic symbols has nothing to do with it, however he did suppress morris dancing which we can not thank him enough for.
    I must stress again to everyone the reason James D is not replying to our posts is well how to put this nicely a very fine wordsmith but don’t ask him to wire a plug, not mr technical is our James D. A public school education obviously is good at teaching you suetpuddingtonius’ history of the twelve really crazy caesars but not light bulb changing 101. I suppose this is because you are expected to do well enough in life because your social contacts will always get you a good job and you can always find one of the unwashed masses to do your light bulb changing for you.
    Ok I’m exaggerating he forgot his email address and can’t sign in LOL.

  47. Amanda says:

    Crownarmourer: Tell me about it (like the beany baby, by the way).

    Mr Amanda says things like ‘Amanda, the light bulb’s out’, which translates as ‘Amanda, I can’t read by this light, will you find the right bulb, wherever they are kept in this house, ’cause I don’t know, even though I live here, and screw it in for me?’ I tell ya. There are two toolboxes in my house, and only I know what’s in ’em.

  48. Amanda says:

    However, I do think the ‘I’m not technical’ line should be viewed as the excuse it often is. My father-in-law never answers the telephone. Is it because he doesn’t know how to lift the receiver from the base? ‘Course not. He doesn’t want to talk to his 97-year-old mother (‘HOW-id! [His name is Howard, and he’s from Brooklyn.] Have you tied your shoelaces lately, Howid?’) He’s 77.

  49. Amanda says:

    By the way, I DO know the difference between a curling-in apostrophre and a curling-out apostrophe, but I can’t control what actually appears on this blog once I’ve typed it.

  50. msher says:


    This article makes me very uneasy. I might not get this right the first time I try writing it – but let me try to express my reasons for discomfort.

    Your article reads like an obituary, and one with bashing of both James or the DT. It needs to be pointed out that you are not a disinterested observer. You spent months on the DT blog, while building your own vehicle (this web site). When fortune handed you the format change in the DT site, you were among those who spoke up about being censored (You? I find that distinctly odd. You don’t write things that would catch the censors’ attention.) and you have pushed the theme that the DT changed all of its blogs simply to eviscerate James’ posters. (I still find that highly unlikely.) While fanning the flames of discontent, you have been actively trolling (no pun intended) for new readers on the DT site. You are actively trying to put nails into the coffin.

    Duckham has been doing something more or less equivalent for months. You are not Duckham, but don’t you want to stay as differentiated from him as possible?

    I find it disconcerting for you or any former DT skeptic poster to celebrate the demise of James or the DT. I have stated in the last few days my own intense disagreement with tone and tried to persuade why a different tone is more advantageous. I was trying to persuade to do different, not gloat over a demise. If anything I wrote came off as gloating over a demise, that was poor writing on my part, not my intent.

    Whatever the shortcoming might be in James/the DT, Ozboy you are benefiting immensely. If James’ reign as “standard bearer” is indeed over (and that is not clear at this point), I think we should all have gratitude for the work James has done and the forum the DT provided.

    “But here in the antipodes, and in other places as well, the game continues.”

    Ozboy, if you are going to pronounce James and the DT over, exactly how do you propose to get equal dissemination? James’ blog at its most impressive had lots of science skeptics, a number with PhD’s. I don’t know the credentials of the as-of-now-limited number of posters here. How do you plan to get your numbers of science PhD’s up? Moreover, James at this point gets materials sent to him by people in general and by players in the AGW-skeptic worlds. In fact materials sent to him are what many of his articles are based on. How do you propose to attract material to write about?

    I think James’ blog has been slow going recently, even before the disastrous format change. James clearly has other projects that eat up his time, and most important, the breathless pace of bombshell development after bombshell development has ended. However, if there are important new developments, James might again be on top of his game, and commenters might learn how to make use of the pernicious new DT format. If not, I don’t think we should be feting their demise, but rather be thankful for what they have done. James isn’t the enemy.

    To Old Toad and brownbess: I take issue with James’ tone sometimes, only because I think it diminishes his – and by extension, skeptics’ – credibility. BUT I am immensely grateful for the work he has done and hope he will have important new revelations. I got intensely interested in AGW last summer, the day the House passed cap and trade. Without having enough detail to understand my own dread, I recognized that agenda as potentially the death knell of the West. James wrote an article where he said the same thing, and he promised he would stay on this issue. He has, and the year I have spent on his blog has for me filled in the gory details on which my inchoate dread was based. How can anyone be anything but thankful that he kept his promise to stay on this issue? I am grateful that he has. Do I vehemently disagree with his tone sometimes and think it is sometimes very counter-productive? Yes. But that does not take away from what he has accomplished.

  51. Amanda says:

    Msher has thrown down the gauntlet. Oo-er.

    Msher — whom I once called sincerely one of my ‘brothers in arms’ — do you not think that your critique of Ozboy is slightly over the top? I don’t see any evidence that Ozboy is attempting to profit by James’s ‘demise’; James rather over-the-toply described himself as ‘God-Emperor’, practically inviting a humourous oh-come-off-it response; and James himself has had an ‘oh fuck all ye lately’ attitude to critics, even on his own side, so why should Ozboy not also be shall we say irreverent? I think Ozboy’s irreverence is not only funny, clever, and well-considered, but it also serves his point or his ‘central insight’, as I more pompously/learnedly put it in my earlier post. And I think his insight is correct.

    So my question now is (to quote The Unbrainwashed somewhere else): Que?

  52. Amanda says:

    Sorry, carols as analogies aren’t exactly at the front of my mind: it should have been ‘oh fuck all yet faithful‘ not lately. Oh what a crack-up. Yuk yuk.

  53. Amanda says:

    all *ye*. I’m on a laptop and everything’s smaller and more inconvenient. Okay?

  54. msher says:


    I said my post was my first attempt at writing my view. I often don’t get something quite right the first time I write it, and seeing others’ comments and then rewriting my own comment based on what I have learned from others ends up being a much better and more accurate expression.

    I am having a reaction to events that I am having trouble pinning down – but there is something. Right now I am exploring. You have reacted to my comment and I hope others, including ozboy, will also react. I will be glad to adjust what I wrote as soon as I think my grasp is accurate.

    I think ozboy is indeed using the opportunity that has been unexpectedly afforded. There is no reason he shouldn’t, but something in the picture to me is a little off. I hope to pinpoint whatever that is. Everyone, including ozboy, might end up agreeing, and we might all do a slight tweak or adjustment. Or you might all convince me that I am wrong. I bear no malice in trying to figure this out.

  55. msher says:


    P.S. I am not trying to throw down a guantlet, just get at that something that is bothering me about recent events. If I am right in my sense that we aren’t quite behaving well, it will be be easy to fix, and why shouldn’t we want to behave well? In these circumstances, I don’t even know what behaving well entails. Maybe that is what I am trying to explore.

  56. Amanda says:

    Msher, this is an uncertain time and we are all somewhat, in the English phrase, ‘at sixes and sevens’. I hear you and I understand, and needless to say, I respect you as ever. Cheers, Amanda

  57. theendisnighnot says:

    msher…. my two pennies worth….. think there are a number of factors at play here for myself i just can’t get used to the new format on the DT which probably says more about me than the DT also whilst appreciating fully the part JD along with Booker etc have played in bringing this nonsense to a wider audience just think lately he has become embroiled in things which do him and the skeptic cause little or no favours…. surely it would be better to treat Moonbot with the contempt he so richly deserves by either ignoring him or at the most damming him with faint praise. I have always found People like him just can’t cope with that approach! As i understand the Guardian has a dwindling readership and on-line consists the usual suspects who parrot anything he or that ridiculous champagne socialist Tonybee says. I also think that maybe JD is distracted at present with books to write etc hence his intemperate response to what he perceives as criticism what i perceived as enquires from people who actually cared about his blog. I think with all due respect you may have misread Ozboys intentions (or at least what i assume them to be) both in the creation of this blog and this thread . On the blog i don’t think it was created as either a threat to JD’s or to profit from some sense of demise. I’m not sure the number of PHD’s is that vital to the success or otherwise of a blog but i would say that as i don’t have one lol. The people that i enjoyed reading over at JD’s with a few exceptions have come here and thankfully the people such as Ducky et al don’t appear to have. I have to say this place feels alot like JD’s did earlier on and whilst JD should be thanked for all he did and continues to do how is he more qualified than say Ozboy to host a blog? I think alot of people will pop between the two. One final point this thread pales into insignificance in terms of an attack on JD compared to his attack on people who as i see it were offering constructive feedback and were told to “swivel”

  58. crownarmourer says:

    Well not that my opinion matters but ozboy had no intention of competing with James D this site was for other purposely graciously allowed us to use it as a life raft from the disaster of the SS Daily Titanic. As for money unless this site unexpectedly goes viral I do not see money in it. As for promoting this site a few of us have been guilty of that as we tried to “rescue” more people.
    As the dust has settled it seems the ship Daily Titanic did not sink but the passenger section got flooded out. James D is just darned busy at the moment and there is little news on the AGW front which will heat up again forgive the pun on or around Nov2 when the loonies try to rally the troops and push there agenda with as little democratic input as possible as the smelly oiks don’t want it.
    As for ozboys article I thought it was rather good satire and is intended to goad James D into a response I’m sure he will see the funny side although there are one or two ouch that hurts digs.
    I post here and still post over on the Daily Titanic as I see no problem with using both, here we can have an adult discussion there it is almost impossible as it is non linear. Hard to have multiple conversations at once.
    Just my three penneth worth or thrupney bit. I could be completely wrong and ozboy really is Dr Evil but that is doubtful.

  59. crownarmourer says:

    ozboy or Dr Evil…

  60. crownarmourer says:
    June 27, 2010 at 9:52 am

    I know it sounds puerile and somewhat odd, and perhaps my brain is warped from watching too many cartoons (in fact, I am sure of the latter, Mum tried to warn us when we were kids but we didn’t listen), but I am automatically matching your grandbaby avatar with your comments and I am larfing my arse off. I can actually sort of see in my mind’s eye the little person saying your written words. Too much fun in 1971 might have something to do with it, too. Though I don’t remember 1971 clearly LOL! If you can, you weren’t there.

    I tend to agree with you about Cromwell, but that doesn’t mean I wouldn’t go through a time machine with a 105 mm howitzer, lots of rounds, a case of M-14’s and lots of 7.62 mm rounds (tracer) and wampum to Plymouth Rock to set up to wait for the Mayflower’s mizzen mast to show up on the horizon. Would have been handy at Bunker Hill and New Orleans, too…on the British side. Surprise, surprise, surprise, as Gomer used to say.

    I guess I have a bad case of the Les Grossmans. There’s enough of my own stuff to do. Still, there’s always a market for new ideas, if you want to connect.

  61. crownarmourer says:

    Well if we had not lost the Revolutionary war Ozboy and Blackswan would probably be speaking French right now or Dutch. I remember 1971 clearly as I was 5 at the time happy days but it involved lots of lego and games of rounders a game very much like baseball which we invented, listening to the tales of my best friends dad telling us about his army days in Burma which seemed to be a lot about mud, jungle, mules and getting them wound up so they would move and the tendency of the Japanese to blow themselves up.
    Cromwell was useful in the fact it taught the people that maybe your average monarch was not quite so bad and that fun after all was not a bad thing. His real legacy was the new model army soldiers who went on to lead highly disciplined productive lives and more than likely gave rise to the industrial revolution generations later or buggered off to the colonies and we all know what happened later.
    As for New Orleans I think it was jolly unfair of Andrew Jackson to hide behind cotton bales and not be massacred by a highly trained but ruthless Napoleonic war hardened army.
    I’m not sure about new ideas though but always willing to share my usually half inched stuff.

  62. msher says:

    Guys, I am not saying ozboy is evil. I hate the DT forum, I’m glad this forum is here, and I wish it every success. (If it is going to take over as the standard bearer, the questions I raised will have to be addressed.) BUT look at how easy it was for me to characterize events in an adverse way. Play with what I am wrestling with. If it takes us nowhere, then I will simply turn out to have been mistaken. Surely not the first time, and probably not the last. If I turn out to have correctly picked up on something, then it is an easy enough thing to tweak to avoid in the future.

    Incidentally, I have had a few acrimonious exchanges with James about the meaning of words used. Suffice it to say that I did not always endear myself to James and it is almost odd to find myself sticking up for him now.

  63. crownarmourer says:

    msher I’m just grossly exaggerating a lot, of course we knew you were not implying that I was just joking around, as for James D I’m sure I would butt heads with him myself, different social circles and all that.
    All I’m grateful for is this blog so we can discuss in relative privacy I never stopped being one of James D supporters as I do not adhere to the theory the changes were meant to muzzle him it’s more likely a business decision a bad one but more about dollars.

  64. Walt O'Brien says:

    crownarmourer says:
    June 27, 2010 at 2:22 pm

    As far as New Orleans goes, I am still traumatized from watching Yul Brynner in a wig with a French accent as Jean Lafitte in the film “The Buccaneer” which had Charleston Heston playing Andrew Jackson to the brutal letter, and the bagpipers coming out of the fog. I was about 11 at the time, and watched it on a summer’s eve from on top of my Dad’s 1956 Mercury at the drive-in theatre. Still remember the burgers and root beer, nothing like the stuff of today, or maybe my taste buds are shot (more likely). G_d knows what was in those burgers LOL! Nothing moving, fortunately, that I know of. We used to get clouds of May flies and brown bullet sized June bugs, beetles that would buzz through the air at a remarkable speed and catch you in the teeth or eyeball while out riding your bike, or trying to watch a drive-in movie.

    If we Yanks had played it like Canada, we would be ahead of the game now (perhaps). Everyone wonders how Canada even survived as a British colony with such a large percentage of its population being French, but most Quebeckers are still there now because they’ve no desire to share in the madcap capers of such fun activities as WW I, WW II and the impending inevitable and equally unnecessary WW III. You still have plenty of room to swing a cat in Canada, though now you would do serious jail time for animal cruelty.

    Check out “Triplets of Belleville” sometime. Montreal still looked like that until about 1986 or so. It was both sleazy and amazingly people-friendly, which it is now by today’s PC standards, but it is too Swiss with every blade of grass in place or someone goes to jail, yet no place to relieve yourself unless you buy something. “Welcome, buy stuff, then go to hell, please,” is the new town motto. If you head up to Rouyn Noranda or the other side of Lac Abitibi, it still is the traditional Quebec landscape there. Eastern Townships around Waterloo and Bromont are still a delight to the eyes. It was where the Crown used to banish young Rakewells to pay off their debts to White’s through raising peaches and plums and pears and all manner of veggies as well as, of all things, beef and dairy cattle. You’ve never lived until you’ve heard “Silver Threads and Golden Needles” in French. Nice horse country, too; Bromont’s the Olympic equestrian practice area, or used to be.

    Anywho, catch you tomorrow. Off to bed.

  65. crownarmourer says:

    Turning a little to politics…


  66. Walt O'Brien says:

    Crowny, just as an afterthought, from what I understand, the British troops at New Orleans were spent and ill from non-stop butt-kicking all the way from Montreal to Washington DC then hence via ship from Chesapeake Bay to New Orleans, or was it via Jamaica that they got ill? No artillery support makes any frontal assault an exercise in “Well, I didn’t want to live until sundown, anyway” aerobics. There was a near-mutiny afterward, if memory serves me.

    Also, Amanda was wondering if when babies poop, burp, fart, pee, cry, and sneeze all at the same time, do they explode ?

  67. crownarmourer says:

    Walt interesting experiment with the baby I shall test the grand baby to destruction then. Just in the interests of science of course, with this knowledge mankind can make great advances. You can use static electricity to stick babies to the ceiling though.
    Seriously it is physically impossible to do all at the same time the nervous system can not handle the workload.
    I saw that movie you are talking about and I was about the same age, typical propaganda fluff. I did read about the 1812 war interesting in that our best commander had not been killed around Detroit the shape of America would have been a lot different, the Great Lakes would have ended up Canadian.
    Did you know half of Maine ended up being British because of that war and that it was handed back in a later treaty the locals did not want to go back to US control. The smuggling was too lucrative.

  68. Blackswan Tasmania says:


    To Ozboy….”exactly how do you propose to get equal dissemination?”

    Swan – Equal dissemination with the London DT? Surely you jest.

    ” James’ blog ……. had lots of science skeptics, a number with PhD’s”.

    Swan – How do you know ANY of JD’s posters had PhDs? I said I was a black bird with a bloody long neck. Doesn’t mean I AM one.

    “I don’t know the credentials of the as-of-now-limited number of posters here. How do you plan to get your numbers of science PhD’s up?”

    Swan – Do I need “credentials” to say anything of relevance in this or any forum? Why should the host and author of this blog have any “plan” to get the number of PhDs up? At the end of the day, in the world of politics, any PhD gets to have only ONE vote in a ballot box, just like me, no more no less (unless you’re a Labour Apparatchik whose philosophy is “vote early, vote often”, usually in the name of dead people). This issue has moved way past the realm of disputed crappy science and is ONLY about politics and the delivery of the Scam, and we are ALL part of that game.

    “James at this point gets materials sent to him by people in general and by players in the AGW-skeptic worlds…… materials sent to him are what many of his articles are based on. How do you propose to attract material to write about?”

    Swan – From what I’ve seen, JD lifts a lot of previously published material, notably Booker’s and North’s, some days after it was already published in the DT, or stuff from Wattsupwiththat, thus the incessant “Hat-tips” to a lot of people who had already done a lot of leg-work. What he is “sent” and what he “lifts” are two different things.

    What makes JD’s blog invaluable (apart from its wide exposure) is the fact that its contributors have provided so many links and so much information available to so many. There are hundreds of anti-AGW blogs from around the world. How would I have known they were there – how could I go to pages from scientific web-sites or read columns from Journalists in other publications if the Team had not put the links on the JD blog? It is simply a rallying point. Problem is, if you want answers you have to ask the right questions and for any lay-person, the knowledge and expertise offered BY THE CONTRIBUTORS has been invaluable.

    Does that preclude ANYBODY ANYWHERE from creating a site/space/blog of his own and inviting participation? When the quality/tone/subject-matter becomes so puerile that it’s barely worth your time to be bothered with it, why should anybody NOT have the freedom to create something better, or different or more relevant?

    The best thing about libertygibbert is that there is no O/T. It’s like inviting a disparate group over for lunch and a lot of side-conversations pop up. And we get to “ear-wig” on all of them. Otherwise how would you have learned that a goose is not necessarily a goose.

    If it makes you feel better Msher, I have only seen ONE thing on this blog that made me think “Perhaps not”. It was the photo of Kevin Rudd on the previous blog. It is riveting. Epitomising the devastation of a despised liar/hypocrite/bully/thug who’d been served a big dose of Karma. What I WOULDN’T have done, is add a caption. That’s it.

    Many thanks swanny. Re the Rudd caption, in other circumstances I would agree with you; I normally don’t believe in kicking a man when he’s down. But his incessant and sanctimonious AGW moralizing, fitting us sceptics up with motives we never had, convinced me to make an exception in his case – Oz

  69. Amanda says:

    Swan above: Brilliant post, honey.

    (Yes, it’s wee hours of the morning Smoky Mountains time as I can’t sleep.)

  70. criticalThinker says:

    June 27, 2010 at 7:08 am

    Looks like it was North: – “Having entertained myself briefly on the Monbiot comment section (username: “spacedout”…)


  71. crownarmourer says:

    Amanda you still awake it must be the bigfoot’s prowling outside the cabin they are after deep fried peanut butter, jelly and banana sandwiches, if they are dressed in rhinestone encrusted white suits get very worried.

  72. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    G’day Oz,

    If any man threatens me and mine I’d have no compunction in “dropping him”, but I’d take no delight in seeing his entrails draped all over his feet.

    Whoever took that photo should take first prize in whoever gives prizes to brilliant photographers. I really looked into those eyes and tried to plumb their watery depths. What/Who-TF is actually in there? No Idea. (sorry noidea, your brilliant handle has found its way into my lexicon LOL)

    BTW Oz, noticed the GE has added a cartoony (about himself of course) to his latest effort. I reckoned he’d be pretty chuffed to see how much trouble you’ve taken, devoting so many column inches (so to speak) , just to him. …….still LOL….

  73. Amanda says:

    Crown: LOL! At least I have you to entertain me.

  74. crownarmourer says:

    ozboy I assume your purpose is not to usurp James D’s God emperor status but merely to extract the urine and very well done. You have more things on your mind such as the new bairn to look after, however after your picture you posted of yourself and child you are forever to me a disembodied beard thingy.
    We shall all worship at the dark elder god Ozboy’s throne of eternal darkness for his likeness is forbidden to be looked upon by us mere mortals he shall destroy the believers of AGW and eat their souls. All hail Ozboy.

    Thanks crown. You, more than anyone else here I think, understand what I was getting at.

    Maybe it’s a cultural thing. In my country, anyone like Delingpole who declared himself a GE would have been machine-gunned a long time ago—and that’s by his friends. Who would’ve been a lot less gentle than me.

    As to my “benefiting immensely” from this blog, jeez I wish someone would explain exactly how—to my wife, for starters! I started this blog long before Telegate happened, and for a specific purpose. I’m happy for the JD crew to be here just as long as they like, and I’ll even write threads for them. But I have NO PRETENSIONS TO BECOMING A GE MYSELF. I’ve made that clear to JD on his own blog as well, so that there be no misunderstandings.

    The ideal situation would be to revert to the status quo ante, but as far as we can see the DT Disqus format is there to stay. So here we are. Enjoy!


  75. Walt O'Brien says:

    crownarmourer says:
    June 27, 2010 at 4:33 pm

    Recognizing that you are a PC type of person and are in Memfrica, I won’t make any comments about babies, Velcro and suction pads.

    That would be Brock to whom you refer. Yes, he was amazing. He was warned of the approaching American forces (which he duly clobbered) by a Canadian patriot named Laura Secord, about whom Margaret Atwood started the urban legend that (s)he was a transvestite, which actually sounds Canadian enough, but I think Ms. Atwood was being funny which no one got, which is even more Canadian. Anyway, Laura Secord’s a good chocolate and and ice cream brand, if you’re ever there. I recommend Mattawa if you are up Ontario way, as it is people-sized and at the convergence of a number of waterways, and the two lane alternative road through parallels the Ottawa River for quite a spell.

    Ozboy, show me the rule book where it is not cricket to kick someone when they are down. Usually it is the only chance you are ever going to get to kick them, and it is really a satisfying experience as well as great for one’s calves, cardiovascular system and laugh muscles. It is even better if you get to jump up and down on them repeatedly with great vigour and regularity until they cease making crunching and squishing noises. Hobnail steel clown-sized golf shoes work best, especially the ones with the exploding spikes.

  76. crownarmourer says:

    Amanda glad you like my occasionally funny missives, in real life I’m as funny as a mime.
    Although I can do a funny rant about my bosses from time to time never fun to be led by humourless idiots with all the decision making abilities of a cow pat.
    It comes from being raised in a rural village in Northern England where there was nothing to do it breeds a certain kind of lunatic comedy to entertain ourselves as teenagers. Hard biting black humour with insanity thrown in, the local loonie bin rubbed off on us oh the tales people told poor sods, funny none the less. Fortunately for me my eldest brothers antics got him the title of village idiot.
    Too many people here in the South have no sense of humour and if I have to deal with any more hypocrisy and racism I’m going to scream.
    Anyhow lets get a campaign going to get Graceland on an episode of extreme makeover and the two Pandas at the zoo renamed to Bling Bling and Ho Ho.

  77. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Evenin’ Amanda,

    We’ll keep you company. Speaking of honey, did you ever find a deli that stocks Tasmanian Blue Gum (our State Floral Emblem) or Leatherwood Honey? It’s unique in the world.
    If I sent a small tub of it to “Amanda – Houston Texas”, would it find you? LOL

    Is our mental-picture of you and your family in a rustic log cabin in the woods true? Something tells me it’s more like a mountain health resort where you can bathe in asses milk and have an off-season Scandanavian ski instructor/masseuse called Sven laying warmed stones on your spine LOL.

    Is Mr Amanda a huntin’, shootin’ & fishin’ kind of bloke? With his light-bulb track-record, perhaps not. Doesn’t gel with the image of him taking out his Bowie knife to skin that b’ar that’s bin a-prowlin’……

    Dinner time – catch you later. Sleep well…..zzzzzzzzzz

  78. crownarmourer says:

    Walt yes in Membawe it’s all fun and games the temperature has gone through the roof here so the body count should be up. You can tell I’m a PC kind of guy, go on to Damiens T’s blogs and bait the religious types some of the people who comment scare me give them a chance and the inquisition will be back. Some decent Christians on there who you can tell actually read the bible and got the real message about being decent and treating people with respect and love. Others would be at home with the Taliban and question nothing they like other people to do their thinking for them.

  79. crownarmourer says:

    Walt I’m not sure it would be a good thing if we had won the revolutionary war or the war of 1812 a stalemate. That would have meant the current USA would have had vastly different boundaries and vast areas developed by the Spanish or rather undeveloped by the Spanish. Although if you were native American it would have been a big difference. We were not nice but not as hard nosed as we had a more pragmatic approach to their rights and as subjects of his or her majesty they had them. Would we have abolished slavery if we had to consider the rights of the southern slave states as would that have been worth the aggravation maybe not. Slave trading would have been stopped but freeing them?

  80. Old Toad says:

    Ozboy. You mention the ‘JD Crew’, shame about that. Up to that point I thought we were all in this together. Your GE blog has been brilliantly executed and has evoked some great responses. It was however, triggered off by James’s intemperate outburst which Scousebilly requotes. What JD said was unhelpful and difficult to excuse, but at some point we must get back to the ‘front line’ again from the comfort of this ‘TocH Rest Centre’ (younger readers may not remember Tubby Clayton’s Toc H).
    The massive response to Monbiot’s article proves that his catamites can be galvanised at the click of a mouse (can catamites really be ‘galvanised’ ?).
    The most consistent over the years has been ‘thesnufkin’ who gets 136 ‘recommends’ for saying “The Sunday Times may well have hung their journalists out to dry, but at least we did get an apology. When are Channel 4 going to apologise and retract The Great Global Warming Swindle ?”
    ‘thesnufkin’s’ avatar looks like a woman from the 14th century with a bundle of sticks on her back. I’m sure the Moonbat’s followers would all dearly like to see us back there !
    Oh, and congratulations to ‘spacedout’, his debate with the pompous ‘cannaman’ shows the sort of dogmatic ignorance we are up against.

  81. Edward. says:

    I look forward to the coming day when the grauniad sinks without trace, it is a socialist rag, it’s only useful purpose being, if in a spot without the necessary, wipe it away with the grauniad!
    Moanbots little boys are amusing, the same people ‘post normals’ post on the realclimate comic site.
    They are too arrogant/full of it, to be ‘turned’, it is a religious thing for them.
    It is, the ‘not generally bothered middle grounders’ the politicians are interested in and this is what JD is aiming at.
    I really choose most of the time not to argue with the alarmists, Izal is one, we have crossed swords, not in a nasty way but I see no real point, we are as two parallel lines in the Universe, never the twain shall meet.

    Msher makes two points of interest to me, one is of a fundamental nature and goes to the heart of the matter as far as I am concerned.
    I firmly believe that the battle over AGW is one of the values and traditions of western civilisation against Socialism and totalitarianism – who use mind control and mass media lies and fear mongering to spread their gospel.
    It is a Socialist strategy, a divide and conquer mantra preached by the EU/Brit’ Socialists and behind them, the Frankfurt School.
    (They have also given succour to the anathema of western society in the encouragement wilfully, of an open immigration influx from Islamo land ~ which when I’m in one of my ‘black’ moods if you will excuse the pun gets me to thinking….when the crescent’s shadow is cast over western Europe, who will be first on the cranes??? – don’t answer that, no need, it will be the weak appeasers). That is not racism, that is the truth.

    Everything should be questioned and this is basic science, the manipulation and kiddology of AGW by Socialists has endlessly traduced the empiricism of the scientific method, weaving a tale of lies and using the necromancy of statistics and cherry picked data, scientists like Mann, Hansen, Jones et al should bow their heads in shame.
    Not only the twisting of the scientific method is used the latest IPCC scam is one Dr. Judith Lean, who is a solar physicist of a kind, the UN IPCC decided that the sun was not a major player (can you believe that?) in the recent warming of the atmosphere, Lean said yes, ‘peer’ reviewed her own paper submitted it and had it published!!
    So all of the contrary analysis, papers and thinking is just simply ignored because ………er……….it don’t fit the narrative…..Ferkin hell! I believe this scam, a moral scam and outright lie (CAGW) should be fought and fought hard, it goes to the basics of what we are, who we are and who we can believe.

    Over to mshers other point on PHDs etc, not a problem, many right minded thinking people have a BS detector, that’s all you need, be a thinking sentient human being and be of the and a seeker of the TRUTH.
    At the end of the day JD is an English grad’, as Swanny says, the major input is from us and our sources of knowledge and reading and research on the net and in academic papers.
    For what it is worth, Geology is my ‘bag’, so I ain’t a climate scientist or a physicist (but I did study meteorology for two years at Uni’ as a minor) or like Walt an engineer but what Geology brings to the table is the long view and the long view says, the world is not in danger of MMAGW through our CO2 emissions.

    The most immediate danger is the world slipping back into an ice age, it is due, plus the risk of cataclysm from a super volcano like the one in a corner of Wyoming (Yellowstone caldera), it is also due but ask Californicans about living next to/on a natural time bomb.

    AGW is the least of our worries, all of the west is also stuck under a mountain of debt, that is another focus – we want to hear less of looney tune monstrously expensive placebos to effect a cure to something which does not exist and more of ,
    “how do we get out of this economic shithole?” – Don’t ask Obarmy.

    Lastly I do not want to bicker with my fellow realists, life is too short for an internecine fight, it also plays into the hands of Moanbat’s little helpers, I respect the opinions of Yaossx, RR, Tubw, Hagar, emily/mack, catweazel, greensand, fenbeagle et al and I do post on SS Daily Titanic, I even go so far as to buy the damn thing still, out of probably a misplaced loyalty (how thick is that?).
    But at the end of the day I like it here as well as I’ve averred before, the disqus format leaves me cold and I’ m a little rash (a lot rash) sometimes as I have some celtic blood in me (grin!).
    I am staying in the middle of the road on GEs, however I think it was a great post Ozboy and some things need to be said.


  82. Edward. says:

    @Old Toad,
    “When are Channel 4 going to apologise and retract The Great Global Warming Swindle?”

    Good grief, that was a great programme, how stupid/blind/totally braindead can you be??


  83. ScouseBilly says:

    OldToad, yes I did requote his outburst because that is what still rankles me.
    I think an apology is long overdue but unlikely to be forthcoming.
    I may have upset Yaossx and Mack but they misunderstood; my comment was directed at James. Someone has to point out that his ego is matching that of the moonbat or at least comes across that way.

  84. aurelian says:

    @msher June 27, 2010 at 10:29 am et seq
    Thank you for your thoughtful posts. You are onto something.

    There’s a mildly resentful feeling abroad that JD has abandoned his supporters. That feeling has found expression here on Ozboy’s site.

    We may be experiencing a form of bereavement. JD’s blog, pre-DISQUS, resembled a club. Cohesion was reinforced by the disruptive efforts of the AGW trolls. There was a strong sense of friendship in adversity.

    When DISQUS came along, it drastically remodelled the clubhouse and scattered the membership to the four winds. Rejoining was difficult. Many came here to Ozboy’s site, and I for one impute no ulterior motives to Ozboy — I see his granting access to his site as an act of pure charity for which I am most grateful. Without it, I would not have the pleasure of staying in touch with so many of my friends.

    The entertaining post at the head of this thread is in the Delingpolean mould. If I feel a little unsettled by some of it, I don’t always feel entirely comfortable with some of JD’s posts either. If the God Emperor is currently distracted elsewhere in the Delingpolean universe, or perhaps even locked out of His own creation altogether as some have hinted, let us be thankful for this refuge.

    I hope He finds His keys soon.

    aurelian 27JUN10@1107BST

  85. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    izen says:
    June 26, 2010 at 9:34 pm

    G’day izen,
    With a bit more time on my hands, I went back to re-read your post (something I’m only inclined to do on this format)…….and it’s interesting.

    “Politics often uses an Overton shift to get unpopular legislation/reform accepted”.

    In real-people-speak, we call this “political kite-flying”. Sheesh, I’m such an ignoramus I had no idea it was actually a “shift” memorialising some smart SOB called Overton.

    In the context of the AGW Fraud, an example would be;
    “Let’s put a notional price of $30 a ton on Carbon”.
    The citizenry cries “Hiss, Boo, Hisssssss”.
    The CC Hucksters, fully anticipating such resistance, say..
    “Now we must have some consensus, some compromise. We believe in fair play. So lets make it $20 a ton”.
    The citizenry cries “Hiss?”
    Hucksters: ” You’re breaking my heart. What’ll happen to the drowning polar bears? Ok, let’s make it an even $10″.
    Citizenry: “That’s better. Wow. They’re finally listening to us. That’s people-power for you. It’s a deal”.
    Hucksters: “Told you we only had your best interests at heart. Sign here. Now that means your power bills will only triple in 5 years. Listen, we have these fantastic windmills that………….”


    “I think I have good arguments for anonymity on blogs, but I would be curious about what other views people may have on this subject”.

    I wasn’t always a black bird with a long sticky-out neck, izen.

    There was a time when I seriously involved myself in blowing the whistle on Govt corruption in passing fraudulent legislation and discovering misappropriation of some hefty taxpayer dollars. All in my own name. Silly old me. I really believed in looking people in the eye and having the spine to challenge authority. When your livelihood involves tendering for govt contracts, when you and your home and family are threatened by bureaucratic employees of the Crown, you tend to become a little more circumspect about the realities of life in the cess-pit of politics. And the AGW Fraud has been exposed as being ONLY about politics.

    Besides, anonymity encourages us all to “imagine” who is who. What is the picture a poster conjures in one’s mind’s eye?
    Do you wear a cravat izen? A velvet jacket (a dusting of dandruff on the shoulders), your thinning hair plastered to your balding flakey pate in a heroic comb-over, a drop-o’-the-doin’s in a crystal glass always at your elbow as you hunt’n’peck with two fingers at your keyboard?
    See izen? It’s intriguing to imagine.
    For all I know you’re some hairy unkempt drop-out who lives in squalor and really should re-acquaint himself with a toothbrush.

  86. Pointman says:

    There are a number of reasons why you should always blog anonymously and very few against it. There are individuals in the AGW debate whose activities go far beyond what would be termed acceptable behaviour in the blogosphere or outside it. Remember Greenpeace’s ‘we know who you are, we know where you live’ and that was from their Director of Communications. Grotbag was only there to deny the platform by any means not to debate although he never realised how really useful he was being at the time.


  87. Amanda says:

    ‘Morning all.

    Ozboy, I think a lot of us ‘get you’ on this thread. But there are a lot of different ‘angles’ within that, and we each pick the one we find most interesting I suppose.

    Crownarmourer, you are a comic genius. With my Word skills and your humour we could be billionaires! (Okay, but I would like a small stipend, if that’s all right — a few mill a year?)

    Blackswan: I adore honey, so thanks for the offer, even if it can’t be manifested. Leatherwood honey sounds faintly familiar. Did they ever stock it in Waitrose?

    You are much closer with the cabin in the woods. I wouldn’t know what to do at a spa and would probably strangle myself in all that towelling they use, not to mention asphixiating on the fumes of all those creams.

    Mr A likes to fish on occasion but is not especially accomplished at it. He greatly cares about animals otherwise and goes out of his way to rescue small critters in danger of being squashed, run over, etc. Two years ago on this same mountain he patiently rescued a desperate cat who was crying all over it (the mountain), when others couldn’t be bothered. He’s all heart (and mind) and that’s why I love him.

    As for the Bowie knife — well, quite. When he was a Boy Scout there was a poster that said one should never whittle anything with the knife coming towards you, but always away. He couldn’t see why not, and tried whittling towards him. The scar that he still has records the moment when he realized exactly ‘why not’.

  88. Edward. says:

    a’ternoon as they say in zumerzet,

    Only a ‘few mill’?
    Nah, you would get greedy and want it all!:>)

    I’ve oft’ wondered if I was in a great rock band, which went on and on and had a spoilt twat as lead vocal (Axel Rose) who had marvellous charisma but that I was the lead guitar and the best (the one who holds it all together)….would I put up with it for the money or would I shoot the bastard.
    Bit like Pete and Rog’.


  89. Amanda says:

    Ed: LOL. Yeah, but what if I’m Rog?

    Anyway, Pete always struck me as the sort of guy whose sneakers (plimsolls, whatever) have to be left outside the house to ‘denaturize’ overnight.

  90. Walt O'Brien says:

    crownarmourer says:
    June 27, 2010 at 6:37 pm

    What is both humorous and totally unsurprising is that there is a raging war on the US southern border at the moment which has claimed 22,700 lives in three years and it is not even on the news at all. Don’t think for a moment it shan’t engulf huge swaths of the USA, California, Arizona, New Mexico and Texas in particular. That will occur the moment the Latino Taliban switch over to shoulder-fired arty like RPG’s, mortars and land mines and targeted revenge car-bombings or car-bombings in support of favourable legislation here (Always made me laugh when they referred to land mines as IED’s; the subtext is that IED’s aren’t land mines as they are being used by leftist freedom fighters against the Western oppressor. As with our last five conflicts, I have always wondered why journalists were not legitimate targets as well. I have often wondered what would have happened to Walter effing Cronkite if during WW II he had stood up for Nazi “rights” as he did for the ever-so-morally-superior Communists. Were you here in the States for his daily sing-song smiling chant on the daily US casualty rate which he read off like football scores?). The Latino Taliban already have them in traincarloads.

    We’ve become a flippety-flop fish-begging mob of trained circus seals relative to the media to the extent that if there were a “Brazil” type situation as an Argentinian-style ritual as part of life in NYC or Chicago it would simply morph into a cutesy situation comedy or Whitewasharama like “Wonder Years” or “That Seventies Show” or the maddeningly condescending “American Dreams.” Yes, children, Hollywood understands everything. Yes, it was really the way they say it was.

    I take angry exception to Argentina asking to “negotiate” over the Falklands and associated British sovereignty over the Falklands, as the people there do not want to be associated with such blatant corruption, murderous vice, and fiscal incompetence which are a normal part of everyday Latin culture there. Argentina would love to have the British “problems” the UK has now in exchange for the insane and truly “Brazil”-type mess Argentina has put up with since well before the fascist Germany-subsidised Peron disaster of the 1940’s. But my exceptionalism is as nothing compared to the outrage with which the US public will greet what I think is going to happen during the Oongawa Administration: negotiating with Mexico over sovereignty over portions of present US soil and over Puerto Rican sovereignty as well.

    The main reason I feel we ought to have taken a pass on the second go-round respecting our Revolution here, and even the first shoot-em-up and cynical land-grab, is that the USA really didn’t fully recover from the costs and poverty generated by going our own way until well after the Mexican war of 1848, then the Civil War plunged us back into a maelstrom of debt from which we did not extricate ourselves until, IMHO, the decade leading up to WW I, those years during which 30-40% of current US housing was built and is being rebuilt and remodeled for the 50th or 60th time when they were “kit houses” in the first place, not meant to last longer than a decade or so LOL! All of our national domestic disasters relating to governmental fiscal paupery owe entirely to our Revolution; Canada took a pass on all that, got a better deal as a result, and look at them now.

  91. Edward. says:

    Amanda says:
    June 28, 2010 at 12:13 am
    Yeah, I used to have a mate, who we used to make him (after playing footy) leave his shoes (trainers) outside, he was a public school boy, I don’t think that when he was at school he ever took ’em off (grin) but they did pen ‘n’ ink.
    Pete’s ?……I know what you mean! -He always was a scruff, like Mick Fleetwood.


  92. Edward. says:

    Now I think the EPA in the States are a bunch of nutters because they think CO2 is a poison.
    Well, they’re only bureaucrats but this I think confirms my suspicions:
    “Some are attuned to the possibility of looming catastrophe and know how to head it off. Others are unprepared for risk and even unable to get their priorities straight when risk turns to reality.”

    Read more: http://www.financialpost.com/Avertible+catastrophe/3203808/story.html#ixzz0s4Odqn1I



  93. Edward. says:

    Have a look at this image of the Sun, click on the photo image to see a magnified version – amazing!


  94. Ozboy says:

    G’day all.

    Sorry to hear about England in the World Cup. At least you got a goal in against the krauts (they rolled us four-zip). Two goals if I read the match report right. Also the US are out as well. Good job I don’t follow soccer 🙄

    @Amanda on June 27, 2010 at 11:10 pm

    Ozboy, I think a lot of us ‘get you’ on this thread. But there are a lot of different ‘angles’ within that, and we each pick the one we find most interesting I suppose.

    I know you do, and it’s always a joy to be among friends to whom you don’t have to constantly explain yourself. Just making a point about satire, which I think may have been lost on a couple of people.

    Back to bed. I’m out all day Monday, but will check in late afternoon.



  95. elcommandantewalto says:

    England may have lost to Germany, but at least the universal Tobin tax on banks is off the table at the G20, thanks to Canada. The Empire strikes back! Gwarrr!

    Ed: watch BP get nationalized, or whatever word the Coalition invents as a pink and fluffy substitute. That’s the magic solution to the British debt problem, IMHO. It was a Crown asset before, it can be again. It probably wouldn’t be a bad time for BP to propose a share buyback programme either.

  96. crownarmourer says:

    elcommandantewalto well the only bank I want to see nationalized is the Fed, wipe out a lot of US debt at the stroke of a pen. Then cut the pension of Greenspan to 5 % of what it is now.

  97. Edward. says:

    You know, what a machiavellian mind you have, BP ….yes it is a possibility, never thought of that one.
    England? same old same old.
    Tobin Taxes, unless there is solid and total agreement would never have got off the ground, pie in the sky, Obarmy would like ’em though.
    How long before the USA is a spanish speaking country?
    How long before Britain is a Urdu/Waziri/Pashto/Punjabi/ublodinamiti etc speaking country?


  98. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    G’day Amanda,

    What’s a Waitrose?
    Is that Houston’s version of Harrods?

    Maybe you could get your local stockist to check this out if you liked what you see here

    Mr A might fancy a boutique beer….

    ….with a fine single malt to follow…

    Sheesh, I’m sounding like a one-swan Trade Attache! Now all I need is the cushy pay packet to go with it and the international junkets that follow LOL.


  99. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Oooops didn’t mean the second honey link……..

  100. Blackswan Tasmania says:


    Got to catch up on your latest chapter…….

    A generous gift, all the more appreciated for its personal significance.

  101. Edward. says:

    Though you’ve patiently tried to teach me a little of Aus politics, I still don’t get it, still one day… .


    Same band of scoundrels—different accent. That’s about all you really need to know – Oz 👿

  102. Greetings, Crowny and Ed. Weird experience: I had to log in again from scratch, sort of, into WordPress using my user name (sort of) which is where the elcommandantewalto comes from. WTF?

    Machiavellian not so much as having seen it all before in Latin America several times over firsthand, Ed. I also dont think the Latino community wishes to alter the dynamic which exists between the non-Latino community here and themselves, anymore than the Jewish, Irish, Eskimo, Martian, black and Kwakiutl communities want to. It isn’t exaggerating to state that outside agitation is the prime source of the chaos here, that and absurd expectations provided copiously by advertising agencies and politicians alike as to what one ought to expect as a worthwhile life and emoluments for one’s efforts in the workplace.

    The Feds are working on it, Crownarmourer. Burnt Hankie is going to crank up the presses again. Anything but work and industrial development and employment drives and wage indexing to drive up the interest rates. Zero interest and zero inflation means you pay for the house forever, people !!! It’s an economy of beggars and sycophants the Oongawameister wants above all.

    I heard a good one today re politicians and executives: superior social skills is code for more than 100 partners.

  103. Crownarmourer, all Grandbaby needs is a Photoshop cigar and bowler and it’s Winnie in the digital flesh. I hear what you wrote when I read it in his unmistakable voice, which I understand was actually a dubbed-in actor for the “blood, sweat and tears” speech.

    You should also see if you can post an animated .gif of Grandbaby yawning or burbling or whatever Grandbabies do.

  104. Ozboy says:

    Oh that reminds me. Don’t know if it’ll prove useful, but I created a Facebook presence, mostly for anyone here who wants to share pictures etc.

  105. crownarmourer says:

    I already have a facebook account called crownarmourer and no I don’t want to be anybodies friend bah humbug and all that.

  106. crownarmourer says:

    Just joking I rarely get on but nice way to swap photos.

  107. crownarmourer says:

    Good point about the interest rates, 20% inflation in the late 70’s helped my parents pay off there house, however like you say they want to us to indebted forever wage slaves.
    They also want to print money and by doing so reduce the value of the dollar and what we owe the rest of the world.

  108. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Holy shamoley Ozboy,

    I’m overwhelmed by a delusional “I can do this” fantasy, and bravely venture forth to the brave new world of Facebook.

    Sheesh…….I have no idea what I did or how I did it. The Cygnet will be over in a few days to sort me out LOL……..

  109. theunbrainwashed says:

    Can someone please translate this for me?

    Al Gore reeling after sex-crazed poodle allegations (美國前副總統是好色的貴賓狗嗎)

    Former US vice president and climate change warrior Al Gore is in hot water after news emerged this week of a 2006 close encounter with a hotel masseuse in Oregon. In a statement made to Portland police reported in the press, the 54-year-old masseuse recounted how she repeatedly had to fight off groping Gore as he made several attempts to bed her after she attended his hotel suite to administer a massage. So far, no charges have been filed.

    美國前副總統高爾(Al Gore)上月才驚傳與結縭40年妻子分道揚鑣,現在又驚爆性醜聞。美國媒體報導,一名奧勒岡州女按摩師在2006年曾指控高爾性攻擊,甚至聲稱當晚所穿內衣留有高爾的DNA,可資佐證。


    該女子在數周後才報案,表示當時「完全嚇呆,擔心失去工作」。據帳單顯示,按摩服務從當晚 11時開始,第一節為90分鐘,其後立即追加一節75分鐘。高爾共支付540美元(約1.7萬元台幣),另加給兩成小費。俄勒岡州檢方也證實,確實有女子報案稱遭高爾「不當肢體接觸」,但她後來不願接受警方訪談,也不願提告。

  110. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Edward. says:
    June 28, 2010 at 9:23 am

    “Though you’ve patiently tried to teach me a little of Aus politics, I still don’t get it”

    We have a “preferential” voting system, something your lot want to bring in called “alternative voting” I think. In Oz, a vote for the Greens is usually a vote for Labour as Green candidates’, whose primary votes won’t get them a seat, give their preferences to their socialist mates. That’s how green policies get adopted by both parties, back-room deals are brokered in a bid to attract those all-important preferences, which can often be all it needs to tip an aspirant over-the-line in a marginal seat.

  111. Blackswan Tasmania says:


    What the……????

  112. Pointman says:

    four one, I’ve thought about it for a while and come to a conclusion.



  113. crownarmourer says:


    Former U.S. vice president is randy poodle do

    Former U.S. Vice President Al Gore (Al Gore) the startling news last month with the end bridal veil was 40 years his wife parted ways, and now senior vice president and sex scandals. U.S. media reported, a masseuse Mingaolegang state in 2006, Gore has been accused of sexual assault, even claimed that the underwear that night left Gore’s DNA, can be the proof.
    United States

    According to “National Inquirer” and other media reports, which were reluctant to disclose the identity of the alleged 54-year-old masseuse, in October 2006 arranged at the hotel, and replace them with a pseudonym “Mr. Shi Dong,” admitted Al Gore massage.
    Grasps forced to touch the lower body

    When she massage to the abdomen, Gore asked her to continue down, rejected after furious, and took her hand and touch his groin. After the massage, caressing her chest Gore buttocks, and kissed her, pushed her to go to bed will also point was made almost forced through.
    In a few weeks after the woman reported that this was “totally stunned, worried about losing their jobs.” According to the bill shows that massage starting from 11 o’clock that night, first section is 90 minutes, then immediately an additional 75 minutes. Gore paid a total of 540 U.S. dollars (about 17,000 yuan NT), plus a two percent tip. Oregon prosecutors confirmed that, indeed, a woman reported that Gore was “inappropriate physical contact”, but she was unwilling to accept the police interview, do not want to provide notice.

  114. crownarmourer says:

    TUB that has to be one of the funniest youtube entries ever.

  115. crownarmourer says:

    pointman rather cryptic?

  116. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Thanks Crown,

    I’m a bit worried about Grandbaby being in such close proximity to such tawdry criminal behaviour……..did you hold your hand over his bright eyes?

    I used to collect old books and found a WW1-era Mothercraft book which counselled the young mother not to be concerned about the commonly-held belief that marital relations during pregnancy would result in offspring with deviant tendencies.

    We found that so reassuring…………LOL

  117. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Whassup Pointy?

  118. Pointman says:

    @Crown – Cryptic? Moi? Those bastard Jerries have done it again. Normalweise sollte uns ihnen getotet aber sie die gewohnlichiche ueberascung gemacht habe.

    Shit German BUT the score remains 2-0


  119. theunbrainwashed says:

    Sorry if this has been posted thought you might be interested!!!



    CO2 storage’ won’t stop global warming: Study


    * AFP

    Published Sunday, June 27, 2010

    Dreams of braking global warming by storing carbon emissions from power plants could be undermined by the risk of leakage, according to a study published on Sunday.

    Rich countries have earmarked tens of billions of dollars of investment in carbon capture and storage (CCS), a technology that is still only at an experimental stage.

    Under CCS, carbon dioxide (CO2) would be snared at source from plants that are big burners of oil, gas and coal.

    Instead of being released into the atmosphere, where it would contribute to global warming, the gas would be buried in the deep ocean or piped into underground chambers such as disused gas fields.

    CCS supporters say the sequestered carbon would slow the pace of man-made warming.

    It would buy time for politicians to forge an effective treaty on greenhouse gases and wean the global economy off cheap but dirty fossil fuels.

    Critics say CCS could be dangerous if the stored gas returns to the atmosphere.

    They also argue that its financial cost, still unknown, could be far greater than tackling the source of the problem itself.

    The new research, published by the journal Nature Geoscience, wades into the debate with an estimate of capturing enough carbon to help limit warming to two degrees Celsius (3.6 degrees Fahrenheit), the figure set in last December’s Copenhagen Accord.

    Storing CO2 in the ocean will contribute to acidification of the sea, with dangers that reverberate up the food chain, says its author, Gary Shaffer, a professor at the Danish Centre for Earth System Science in Humlebaek, Denmark.

    It also carries a higher risk of being returned to the atmosphere by ocean currents and storms.

    Underground storage is a better option, but only if the geological chamber does not have a significant leak or is breached by an earthquake or some other movement, says the paper.

    The gas will have to be stored for tens of thousands of years to avoid becoming a threat to future generations, a scenario similar to that for nuclear waste, it says.

    More there


  120. theunbrainwashed says:

    Don’cha just love them smilleees

    ⚈ 😯

  121. crownarmourer says:

    Pointman sorry not a big football fan or I wouldn’t support the Boro, I just saw 41 together. Anyhow our team are usually crap.

  122. theunbrainwashed says:

    crownarmourer says:
    June 28, 2010 at 12:12 pm

    et at.

    Glad you enjoyed the Ooo toob vid! pmsl!

  123. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Hi Walt,

    Having the radio on for a little background “white noise”, heard a commercial for a national bank whose “friendly consultants” will show me how to get the cash for “tango lessons in Argentina”. Yeah, right…….

    If Bummer gets his way won’t you guys be establishing the North American Union along EU lines? Problem solved. Your north/south borders will be dissolved. Problematic when the Mexican drug wars have unfettered access as far as the north pole if they want.

    KRudd twice tabled proposals to establish the Asia/Pacific Union on similar lines but wiley hugely successful Singapore told him to take a hike. Maybe his tears were for his disappointment that he wouldn’t have Ducky and his entire entourage as next-door neighbours.

  124. crownarmourer says:

    Blackswan I ended up with a sex manual from the 1920’s I fear to read it as it could unleash dark forces upon the World.

  125. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Oh no, wait a minute………

    I forgot that KRudd, the mandarin-speaking junior diplomat, relaxed our foreign-ownership rules. He’d prefer his Chinese neighbours in his $7 million beachside mansion (shades of Al Gore). Makes it easier when he wants to borrow the lawnmower.

  126. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    PS…. We had the Chinese spend $5 Billion in one year alone on their OZ property portfolios.

    Hi Crown,
    Scary isn’t it? I had an 1871 British Almanac that put hundreds of deaths down to the fact that, due to the weather, plastering on interior walls took so long to dry it caused fatal lung diseases. And we thought the ciggies were bad………….LOL

  127. crownarmourer says:

    blackswan it took about two years to dry out that and poor ventilation and just a fireplace for heat bad recipe that as well as smog.
    Looks like the Chinese are doing what the Japanese did in the 80’s buying up property every where I would not worry too much they will hit a brick wall soon enough and with luck the Chinese may get a form of democratic government or start a world war who knows.

  128. Pointman says:
    June 28, 2010 at 11:29 am

    Where’s Bomber Harris when you need him?

    Blackswan Tasmania says:
    June 28, 2010 at 12:16 pm

    We’ve already got NAFTA, but the interesting thing is, in 1996 the Russians’ individual provincial trade development ministers gathered en masse in Miami to meet with Yanks from the PowerGen show in Orlando, and not one Yank except me showed. At the meeting, the 200 or so Russian delegates were addressed by their general director, and I got free simultaneous translation from a hilarious Moscovite from the Design Bureau for their gas turbine manufacturing team. They laughed it off, then trotted over to the huge Latino get together down the street from that hotel, which was where Mercosur was being formed…and the Russians got pole position and still maintain that prominence. We blew the entire Wall coming down out our shorts through humiliating the Russians while exploiting them then ignoring them as potential biz partners. THEY rule the Latin American industrial import market in various placements, especially rotary wing aircraft. That’s why Kablammo wants to play kissy-poo with them.

    They’ll gut him like a pig LOL! Putin & Company have been waiting 20 years for the USA to come grovelling to them. Well, no, actually 95 years. Should be fun to watch, but only because WE are now the Reds and the Russians are the free marketeers with surplus everything through prudent investment and Taras Bulba capitalism.

    I was witness to the famine and big freeze of 1994-5 in St. Petersburg where thousands froze to death or starved, and it is hardly referenced at all in the press histories covering that time. I bought 10 CD’s from the St. Petersburg Academic Symphony Orchestra for $10 bucks apiece, and at the time, that bought rent & utilities for the month plus groceries for 5 for the same time period. Our team was on a buying junket to round up a passle of Klimov TB3-117 engines for marine engine applications. $2500 each on the “white” market to us then. Not bad for a 1,500 HP gas turbine engine but at the time there were others getting the same engine for $1,000 and $1,500. The shoe’s on the other foot now, for specific industrial niche markets.

    crownarmourer says:
    June 28, 2010 at 12:42 pm

    It would be funny if our currency gave out at just the time the Chinese loaded up on too much real estate. Instant Bosnia. Just add bullets, bayonets, bazookas and stir. Just once I wish an American berserkofest riot would kick in during the winter. Riots tend to slow down a bit when the temperature hits 20 below zero F.

    Did Cthulhu write that 1924 sex manual, I wonder? If you’ve got a scanner send some pix. The underwear for guys from that time were the funniest bit: garters, braces, girdles and thingies to hold up the socks. It’s a wonder the women of the day didn’t all die of laughter rather than bear another generation.

  129. Russians won’t put up with Arsebook type social media, either. It just is not a cultural match, not after 100-plus years of Cheka, NKVD, MGB, KGB and now FSB watchers PLUS all the Western oddly-labeled “intelligence” organizations. They aren’t taking any garbage from Gargle and the other smiley-face totalitarian info robbers, either.

    The ones I met were big, too, I mean insanely so. I guess we know where yetis and Bigfoot do their Club Med bit. If they ever decide to play American style football or rugby or Australian rules football, Russians might do fairly well at them.

  130. crownarmourer says:

    Walt it is called the Sexinomicon written by the mad Arab doctor Abdul “honest it is not the size that matters but how you use it” Assiz. I must dig it out and get something scanned for the not so feint of hearted I think I still have it may be worth a blog or three.
    Anyhow I’m British and we don’t believe in sex thats for the lesser peoples.

  131. Edward. says:
    June 27, 2010 at 7:48 pm

    All this “concern” about AGW is displacement, like worrying about the shine on your shoes when the plane you are on is about to crash into a mountain.

    Speaking of plane crashes, anyone who is interested should know the only reason the IDF and IAF haven’t flattened the Iranian nuke project years ago is because there are thousands and thousands of Western technicians there working under contract for the Iranians. I do not see how imposing sanctions while doing mountains of contracts’ worth of industrial maintenance, repair and construction as vendors to whom the sanctions are imposed is supposed to bring about any kind of resolution of the issue at all. If the IAF and IDF do nothing whatever except defend themselves, the Iranians will shrug and drop a couple of bangers on the West for larfs and to see how they work, then go have lunch. They already can reach London via rocket, thanks to Red Chinese expertise.

    Sheer madness.

  132. crownarmourer says:

    Walt as for the economy either the gubmint faces up to reality or things are going to get interesting and what are people on welfare going to do when those checks stop coming.
    Time for a reality check all those fancy military toys cost money, either you can have a welfare state or well armed military but not both.
    I agree with you about the Russians we had a golden opportunity to engage them and bring onto our side in trade and defense but we fluffed it.

  133. crownarmourer says:

    Well the Iraelis need to do something soon time is running out the Saudis have given them permission by granting access to there airspace to do something after all the Jews are far better to deal with than those Shia bastards, people forget the Sunni/Shia enmity goes back a long time. Also they don’t want to get into a nuclear arms race with Iran it’s expensive and better to use a proxy to strike at them.

  134. izen says:

    There has been a little…. kerfuffle in the blogosphere.
    Here’s the story – short version.
    Tammio, a ‘warmist’ makes a post supporting WUWT and Antony Watts right to free speech using the ‘I disagree with what you say but would defend your right to say it’ trope.
    A poster on the blog called Gregory Goodknight makes ambiguous claims about his scientific qualifications and denies AGW on the basis of papers by Shaviz, Vezier and Svensmark – the solar crowd.
    He is treated to a relatively mild degree of ridicule for this stupidity, all that solar/cosmic ray/galactic rotation is refuted by the lack of any solar trend and his claim to a BS is dismissed as BS.

    GG then complains of libel to WordPress and forces Tammio to remove the posts to regain access to his own blog.
    The irony of a blog post about free speach being removed because of the complaints of one poster is obvious.

    But does this presage a new tactic on blogs? Is the new danger that any flame posts will enable the ‘injured party’ to prompt the blog software companies to close or censor blogs because of THEIR caution rather than the wishes of the users?

    More on the story here –

    I hesitate to cause pain to our host, but while the England football team might have been pitiful, the cricket was rather better…!

    You’re beyond causing me pain mate… but thanks for the censorship story. Over here, we’re so far so good – Oz

  135. “What are people on welfare going to do when those checks stop coming?” The same thing they did in the USA in 1967, 1968, 1990, and 1992:

    Either way the Israelis are screwed. If they attack and blow up 10,000 EU based $50.00/hour pipeline technicians on Ahmacompleatarsehole’s payroll trying to get at the target, the State of Israel will be war criminals. If they do nothing, they will be glow-in-the-dark skeletons.

  136. Izen, the real problem is that digital widgie-digits are such fun toys that when adults play with them too long, it’s like real adults playing with dolls, eventually they get into hissy fights over who gets the Ovaltine and cookies first, then scratch their own heads and say “WTF?” at their own actions while their kids look on larfing at them. It’s rather like that recent Brad Pitt film where the character is progressively getting younger with each passing year, except it applies to an entire civilization.

    I have no doubt the issue either will one day end up in the courts or the associated anger expressed as yet another pathetically stoopid InterNet murder, or both.

  137. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Our new PM Julia Gizzard announced her new cabinet today. Poor Kevin gets to continue to sit on the back bench, with a new election expected to be called in August. What’s the bet he’ll be putting his feet up on a UN office desk a short time thereafter?

    There’s a nature doco on telly where a “highly respected scientist” keeps talking about a small/tiny “majority”. Hmmm, wonder why we think so many “highly respected scientists” have no credibility. Where’s a good PhD when you need one?

  138. Edward. says:


    Somethings astir in Madmullahshire,
    USA carrier battle group approaching the gulf, + Israelis.
    Trouble is we don’t know who’s running the show in Iran, it’s a toss up between the mad mullahs and the thickies in the revolutionary guard and Mohammed of course.

    Ahmacompleatarsehole = he doesn’t even get to know when he can get to visit the shitter.

    What are the Israelis waiting for?
    They didn’t ask for permission when the ‘removed’ Saddam’s Osirak facility, did they?
    A few ‘pipeline’ operators are neither here nor there to Israel, their motherland is at threat……it’s a no brainer……must be Obama…………… but then who sent the USN?


  139. Edward. says:

    BTW the Russians are on the front line in the ‘war against terror’, for too long the west has taken the Bear for granted, there is a vast untapped wealth of knowledge in the Russian motherland, they do education pretty good still, talking to them in Indo-china is a revelation, they can’t half knock the stoli back as well, plus they worry about China, who want half of Eastern Russia……….. or all of it.
    The west did indeed lose an opportunity in the early days of the ‘new’ Russia, I say new because some of the problems are the same as they were in Nicholas’s day or Catherine II even, in fact the Tsars and Tsarinas were part of it.


  140. Blackswan, the Oz economy is in pretty good shape, right? I don’t know if anyone has explained to any member of the press of late why the States is in the jam it’s in, but we saw it coming in 1971. That was the year Nixon killed the Prevailing Wage Act which had been fought for many decades, and came into force in 1948 or so as a trade-off for getting the unions to back off from opposing Taft-Hartley.

    The principle is simple, at least for the numerate who have ever had an hourly job before: you index the rate of pay to actual cost of living indeces, not today’s types of COL index, which are used to find out what the market will pay plus 10%, but rather what the consumer can actually afford to buy, in the way of housing, food, etc. It still exists for Federal construction jobs (called the Davis-Bacon Act) and the USA would be a WASP Guatemala without it, but it used to apply to manufacturing and service sector workers, too.

    Of course, for pay indexing to rational criteria one needs an Office of Price Administration to sort out honest figures for COL.

    The other factor killing us is the old snake swallowing its tail bit from the standpoint of workforce taxation of brokered temps. A third of our workforce is brokered contingent labour. How we can still be competitive internationally is we have to maintain a hidden subsidy device to peg our cost of labour at less than zero. That’s easy to do with pimped labour if you are a manufacturer. If you outsource all your workforce you can deduct from taxes the entire lot as an operating expense, including the labour pimp’s margin, the markup on the labour, and—this is the poverty-making machine which no government can stop except by outlawing it–deducting the taxes the workforce pays to the Feds and state governments. With direct employment of labour, you cannot pocket the taxes the workforce pays as you can when they are a leased commodity.

    Since Reagan allowed for temp agencies and employee leasing firms, etc., etc., of which there are 42,000 in the USA, to deduct such provision of labour as an entire packet as a form of grease to clients of those agencies, our economy has been swallowing its tax tail. If we disallowed the deductibility of workers’ taxes under any and all circumstances, the damage would heal in less than five years.

    As it stands now, the client of the temp agency gets those taxes back which the workers paid as part of their tax refund allowance. As firms like Kelly Services, Manpower, Adia and thousands of other temp firms work globally throughout Western civilization, I have no doubt this same strategy for “less-than-zero-izing” labour costs has been going on worldwide for at least as long as it has in the USA.

    The ILO came into existence to ensure the commodification of labour was treated as a crime against humanity, yet commodification of labour is now the main mode of worker employment for dozens of industries now. Doesn’t this make clear to you why people fought against slavery motivated on a purely business basis?

    I work as a cost estimator, and I have bumped into this reality time and time again on pro forma project costing and brought it to the attention of management, sometimes to my detriment, and still do if the client looks like someone who may be sane and responsible. My association with tax reform folks on this issue in the early 1990’s got me into a little bit of trouble once, so I have kept a low profile on it, but this is where the West’s tax revenues are going, into the pockets of the industrial sector…so they can set up plants overseas.

    The shortage of PhD’s in tax system auditing and design ought to be apparent from this as well. I am sure Oz has a very small percentage of contingent or temp labor as part of the national workforce, so it hasn’t whacked your economy as it has ours and the UK’s. All it takes to sort things out and to reinstate that lost revenue is to disallow the deduction of worker taxes from the tax bill of the employment contractors’ clients.

    People really are getting stoopider with time. Maybe the kill switch for the Net wouldn’t be a bad thing, if that is the cause, but I don’t think it is. People are just too effing lazy now, period, full stop. Take a look at the physiques of those Forties workers on strike which Ozboy has posted above. The only folks now who are in that quality of physical condition anymore are pro dancers, construction workers or Asians. Do Oz schools still have mandatory physical education classes?

  141. Edward. says:
    June 28, 2010 at 6:24 pm

    That’s just the guys at Debka.com “connecting the dots” again, whereas if you consult http://www.centcom.mil, the US Navy makes very clear the Truman is just replacing the existing CVN carrier group in place. Debka.com are two former IDF intel operatives who are from Debica, Poland, and who live and work from there too. They are captainsherlocks who have figured out how to make money online playing the “connect the dots” game. They are also the laughingstock of several sectors of the journalistic community, and a damned nuisance to the US military, as in this instance. Sometimes they come up with a good story, but they have cried “wolf” too many times to actually provide a byline to a proper news agency and get paid for it.

    Again, Israel Defence Forces cannot make a move without kabloomerating hundreds if not thousands of Western (including Canadian and UK and I believe Oz) workers even now working on the refineries and pipelines of Iran. You get the foreign workers out, then the attack can commence.

  142. Also, there would be no point to there being a Jewish State at all if they did business that way. There would be no problems whatsoever relative to the Mohammedan world if they did business like Monty, Wavell and Mountbatten and simply used pork-grease covered bullets and bayonets to control the masses of Moslems. The IDF are the world leaders in differentiating targets, to their loss usually, but again, it is Israel, and it’s how they choose to do business. I won’t say you need to be Jewish or a mischling or a Noahide to understand, but it doesn’t hurt. All you need do is talk to an Israeli sometime about rules of engagement into which they are indoctrinated during their mandatory time in military service. You don’t get brownie points for being Rambo in the IDF.

    It gets even more complicated when you consider that 30% of the IDF itself is Moslem (mostly Bedouin and Druze), and another 20% either Russian Orthodox or Maronite Christian.

    The other bit is I am not entirely clear in my own mind to what extent all these bomb making activities exist or not, though there are plenty of equally good reasons for parting Leisure Suit Larry with a Beard’s hair with a 500 Kg bomb. If Iran really wanted a working bomb, they could BUY one on the black market. Hundreds are missing LOL! I think FAS.org has the exact number of missing nukes listed. :>p

    Walt – one thread I have brewing concerns an historical aspect of the State of Israel you may not be aware of, and that may interest you and your friends in Noo Yoik. Watch this space – Oz

  143. Edward. says:

    “a damned nuisance to the US”

    There is no disputing that, thank you Walt.


  144. brownbess says:

    Ozboy – your piece is very funny but satirical I can’t work out what your main beef is. Do you have a problem with JD going off topic, getting all personal on Moonbat or is your problem just with the new format on DT blogs?

    Either way I think that rumours of the death of JD’s blog are being exaggerated.
    He continues to bring AGW scandal stories to a wider audience (and is thus pilloried by the likes of Ducky for being a cut and paste artist), stories which would otherwise languish purely in the realm of “conspiracy theorists” (I put it in quotes because we could all have this label applied to us) or specialist blogs.

    And the trolls are always a sure sign that he’s having an effect.

    But it’s not like JD came into existence the day Climategate happened. He’s been a writer and journalist all his life. He covered the LA riots, getting up close and personal with the bros’ in the ‘hood; he was credited by Michael Eavis with saving the Glastonbury Festival in the early 90s when he covered it for the Telegraph. He’s got the whole WWII obsession thing going with his “Coward” series of books. He’s got a TV column in the Spectator, a rock music column in the Sunday Telegraph and various features for broadsheets and tabloids, he’s got two more political books in the pipeline.

    Although Climategate is clearly a hugely important thing for him, it would ultimately send him to an early paupers grave if he gave it as much attention as some people want him to give it. And from where I’m standing, he does seem to interact with his audience like no other Telegraph blogger.

    As for the personal attacks on Moonbat: What’s not to like? Moonbat needs a nemesis who’s not above going ad hom, on his ass.

    G’day BrownBess, welcome to LibertyGibbert.

    Read my post again. JD isn’t the subject, he’s the vehicle. I know precisely zero about JD, which allowed me to take some um, poetic license with the precise biographical details of his past.

    My “beef” is the same as that as so many others here: the FORMAT. Let me spell it out, to obviate other queries of this nature:

    1. We want to go back to a LINEAR blog (no threaded posts)
    2. Time-stamp all posts to enable smooth conversation
    3. Ditch ALL this anal-retentive, PC moderation of posts.

    Let me know folks if I’ve missed anything.

    If they do all this, I’ll recommend everyone go straight back to the DT. I will too, and LibertyGibbert can go back to its original purpose i.e., Libertarianism.


  145. brownbess says:

    First line… “so” satirical. Doh!

  146. Pointman says:


    1, 2 & 3 Spot f**king on and in the right order.


  147. msher says:

    Old Toad and brownbess

    “As for the personal attacks on Moonbat: What’s not to like?”

    That James sounded like a petulant 8 year old without the knowledge or cleverness to wound Monbiot on substance and/or too lazy and/or emotionally overwrought to try. Perhaps standards are different in Britain. You guys always like to say we Americans are crude, uncultured boors. But by our crude, uncultured, boorish standards of public discourse, that is how that piece is perceived. I want the spokesperson for the position I hold to sound better than that.

    Attack Monbiot with sang froid and cleverness. Make him, not James, look bad.

    Thank you for your forbearance in letting me post what I post earlier and allowing it to stay on the thread. Maybe all I am saying is that we should all be careful about pronouncing James’ blog dead. It does have the dissemination and name recognition, and if there start to be more big developments, we will be glad if James gets engaged again and starts writing newsworthy articles.


    Black Swan

    Yes there were PhD’s. (There may still be for all I know.) I sort of kept track of that, because I thought it added heft or luster to the skeptics side – although as I came to learn, a PhD doesn’t necessarily speak to judgment or sanity. There were several who posted resume details and I questioned them over time and it hung together enough that I believe they were what they said they were. There were several who posted their credentials early on when I asked, and then they engaged with others with science credentials in a way where they all seemed to be giving each other credence. There were a few whose credentials were verifiable on the web. I think the most interesting PhD was “cloudman” who is a PhD in cloud physics, and he added lots of material about clouds. (Summary: how the clouds affect climate and are affected by climate is still subject to intense debate.)

  148. Old Toad says:

    brownbess, to be fair to Ozboy, James did upset quite a few of his good friends with his outburst, born of frustration over the new set-up. Oz’s comments on James’s latest blog (BBC Bias) indicate that he too would like to move forward against a common enemy. In addition it’s good to see James back responding once again.

  149. Amanda says:

    Brownbess sez: he was credited by Michael Eavis with saving the Glastonbury Festival

    And that’s a good thing?

  150. brownbess says:

    Ozboy – thanks for the reply.
    I don’t always get a chance to read everything so I don’t catch the ins and outs and just thought this whole “Demise of a great blog” thing was something JD had said or done.
    I agree that the DT blog format is not as good as it used to be, and you have to be on your toes to follow all the branches, but it’s not THAT bad!

    I dare say there are those within the Telegraph who would love to see the demise of the JD blog and all it stands for, and so I can understand why some see the new format as an attempt at taking him out quietly, poisoned umbrella style. But I think it’s just general crapness on the part of the Telegraph. Also I get the impression that JD is kind of crap on the techno front himself. Well, what do you expect of a GE? He’d normally have a servant set up his Firefox preferences for him.

  151. Amanda says:

    He’s got the whole WWII obsession thing going with his “Coward” series of books

    Cough, sputter, choke on my turkey bacon. Because after all, WWII had just completely lost the public’s interest before those books were written. Right.

  152. Amanda says:

    getting up close and personal with the bros’ in the ‘hood

    Oh god, really? Did he have to kiss them? I hope the danger money was good.

  153. Amanda says:

    Brownbess thinks it’s not THAT bad!

    oh yes, it is.

  154. Amanda says:

    JD is kind of crap on the techno front himself

    Hey, since it’s his job and his livelihood (in part), don’t you think he could take a course or have a knowledgeable person instruct him for an afternoon? I always had the impression that a first-class education meant you could gather new skills when necessary.

  155. Amanda says:

    your friends in Noo Yoik

    Oz, darling, that should be Noo Yawk.

    Duly noted – Oz

  156. Edward. says:

    Amanda says:
    June 28, 2010 at 11:55 pm

    Hi Amanda,
    My sentiments entirely, who the **** needs Glastonbury?


  157. Amanda says:

    Well Ed, you’re a sensible man, so that judgement is only to be expected. :^)

  158. Amanda says:

    Have just been reminded of why Disqus truly is crappy: it’s not intuitive. To wit: I see a post I want to reply to (just now). I don’t want to make a splashy new ‘entry’; I just want to reply to that poster (basically a little bit of mocking). So I go to the button that allows me to log in, type my details, and lo, I get bumped to the front page. Now, since I am not using Disqus all that often (who would want to?), I forget that I am now in a rabbit hole and my instinct is to go back to the comment I wanted to reply to. So I do. But when I get there and hit ‘Reply’, my text box freezes up so I have to click on the refresh button to activate. (Great system, Disqus, just really user-friendly.) So now I can type, finally. But guess what? I’ve been bumped to the bloody front page again! So what do I do, being a person of sound mind? That’s right, I give up.

    Anyway, never mind, I’m going up another mountain today, with waterfalls and good eats, and it will be really sweet. Who needs the Daily Terrible anyway?

  159. Edward. says:

    “getting up close and personal with the bros’ in the ‘hood”

    Now then, what is wrong with that statement? – when one is reminded of the fact that;
    1. James is white.
    2. James is English.
    3. James is a geeky type.
    4. He knows fuck all about gang culture and street ‘cred’ in LA.

    I come from a ‘pretty hard’ city in the north of England, don’t think they would take to a cub Fox news reporter, who hadn’t started shaving yet, who didn’t know the city – asking a load of dumb assed questions and “getting on down wiv de bros”- you feel me?
    I’m not ‘avin’ that.

    Over to you Walt.


  160. Amanda says:

    Ed at 12:28:

    I love that jive talking! Oh, baby. When you bring the truth down to Shakedown Street, the result is just bitchin’!
    (That’s okay, I don’t know what it means, either.)

  161. msher says:


    I haven’t yet used disquis. (Or at least as far as I know, I haven’t.) If you can log in without it, is there any reason to?

    Or put another way: I dislike the experience without disquis. Would I dislike it any less with disquis?

  162. Amanda says:

    I take it I’m replying to Msher (the computer I’m on at the moment makes the heads partly cover the screen names).

    I have to use Disqus because I could get no joy (translation into American: make no headway) with the Telegraph sign-on, which didn’t work for me. It did in the old system, of course….

  163. Edward. says:


    I am logged in to SS Doomed Titanic (as crown would have it) disqui/us/whatever on Mozilla and unless I log off, am ‘in’ all the time.
    It makes it hard, when logged off, to recall how I got in there in the first place (wide grin)!!
    Had a terrible time to get logged on and then a terrible time wondering why I did so originally……….the format is crap.


  164. ScouseBilly says:

    Glastonbury used to be good – before it was “saved”, that is.
    Now it’s on the “social calendar” FFS.
    It was nice to escape the corporate world (and reality…), and those ghastly snobs that you find at Henley, Ascot etc.
    The music was eclectic but now is mainstream and horribly commercial – a pastiche of its roots serving as a magnet for “right on” accountants, politicians and BBC hacks.

    So it was Dellingpole that ruined it, was it – hmmmmph
    Thankfully there are

  165. ScouseBilly says:

    other fringe festivals that I won’t be mentioning to JD 😉

  166. brownbess says:

    Oh, dear. And there was me thinking Americans now did irony. The “in the ‘hood” bit was irony. And yes, Ed, by rights JD should not have made it out of that situation alive, but his completely out-of-place white Englishness allowed him to interview some of the ‘bros (irony alert), who ended up offering him a pair of trainers of his choice the moment they trashed the next sports shop. An offer he politely declined.

    The point I was trying to make is that he has other stuff that he does, as do we all outside of contributing to to blogs about AGW. It doesn’t matter how you feel about Glastonbury, the Daily Telegraph, Rodney King, the inequalities of the English Public School system or whether or not a journalist should be expected to be fluent in html.

    And Amanda: Maybe your problems with Disqus are down to lack of techno savvy? Don’t you think it’s your job to learn about these things? Have you checked your preferences? (irony alert.)

  167. Edward. says:

    Monsters of Rock at Donnington no posh gits there!

    What a fu**in’ embarrassment, will Steven G now leave the scousers or will the Liverpool gangland allow him to?
    BTW did you see this the other day?
    Used to know a lad in Town planning office, he was offered 70k! to move to London in the late 90’s…..unbelievable money (for what he did).


  168. brownbess says:

    ScouseBilly – I agree, it ain’t what it used to be, and I haven’t been for about a decade, and wouldn’t go again for the reasons you state. Except I’m probably one of the weekend hippies you would have taken exception to. Was is you who tried to sell me a bag of oregano for £15 by any chance?

  169. Edward. says:

    brownbess says:
    June 29, 2010 at 1:06 am
    Its why I had to move away, all the sophisticated irony and all that metropolitan humour too clever by far for me – being just a Northerner.
    Wasn’t that one of the points being made, it has all become a little too sophist like.


  170. ScouseBilly says:

    brownbess says: June 29, 2010 at 1:11 am

    Lol. I was last there 20 years ago and it was already on it’s way down IMO.
    Cliques of “ok yah’s” petending to be hip including a posse from MTV where I was working at the time.

    Doune the Rabbit Hole sounds interesting:


  171. ScouseBilly says:

    P.S. you wouldn’t get change out of £45 for my single-estate, organic oregano 😉

  172. brownbess says:

    Amanda: I’ve just realised what you were getting at here at 11.58:

    ‘”He’s got the whole WWII obsession thing going with his “Coward” series of books

    Cough, sputter, choke on my turkey bacon. Because after all, WWII had just completely lost the public’s interest before those books were written. Right.’

    You think I was claiming JD has started an interest in WWII? What I was actually saying was that he HAS an obsession with WWII. To be more clear I should have said ‘going on’ no just ‘going’. A mis-reading down to my bad choice of words. Sorry.

  173. crownarmourer says:

    Oregano is a gateway drug beware….

  174. brownbess says:

    ScouseBilly: You weren’t joking about obscure, were you? I did the Big Chill five or six years ago, and even that’s going a bit ‘commercial’ (mind you, I wasn’t complaining about the Bombay Sapphire tent). Bestival always looks tempting too.
    I now have boring considerations like “could I bring the kids” and “what to do with the dog”. Resulting in the inevitable result of simply not going to festivals any more.

  175. ScouseBilly says:

    Ed, that DM article is shocking but hardly surprising.
    I have an IT contractor mate who resigned from TfL on principle.
    Apparently they were paying a team of 20 odd people the equivalent of £75k each to sit around playing video games. That’s what they did because there was no real work to do…

    Don’t see Stevie leaving Liverpool but one never knows.
    Personally, I blame Capello:-

    No holding midfield player (where was Scott Parker – the nearest England have to Xabi Alonso?)

    Upson was a fill in for Carragher in the Slovenia game but to retain him against Germany!!!??!!

    Rooney and Barry were poor throughout and should have been dropped.

    But, hey, we’re not English, we’re Scouse…. 😉

  176. crownarmourer says:

    brownbess you are correct about James D not getting killed in Compton exactly for the reasons you state, had a guy from back home in blighty visiting LA and strayed in gangland, when he realized his mistake as he was being approached by a gang, when he started talking they changed their demeanor and told him wasn’t safe around there and kindly escorted him to safe area. People who have no problem shooting each other on a daily basis.
    As for Amanda her laptop apparently is possessed by the devil or bill Gates and refuses to behave itself. It needs a golly good cleaning or exorcism to get it running fine.

  177. ScouseBilly says:

    crownarmourer says:
    June 29, 2010 at 1:34 am

    Yipes!! I’ll warn my Italian friends 😉

  178. ScouseBilly says:

    brownbess says:
    June 29, 2010 at 1:36 am

    Look at what festival “die-hards” have to put up with – if not accepting of the corporatised sheeple fare such as Glasto:


  179. Walt O'Brien says:

    Edward. says:
    June 29, 2010 at 12:28 am

    I live in the middle of it all, and as long as you don’t cop an attitude, everything’s fine. JD would do okay. If he’s lived in London any period of time at all, he is already up to speed. Actually, British tend to move into the middle of mixed neighborhoods on the “not developable” lists of neighborhoods (which means the rents are affordable), depending on what they do for a living, more often than not. For where I am at, the flavour of employment is freelance graphics, ad copywriting, photography, IT next-to-the-metal sysdev coding rather than script-baby apps stuff usually done out in the burbs or corporate towers right in the middle of a majority black and Puerto Rican (what I call) creche neighborhood: lots of moms and baby carriages, (5) elementary schools not including the Moslem day school. It’s 4-5 blocks to downtown proper and the Armoury Square district (several bongo-drum coffee shops, several ladies’ fashion shops, 3 or 4 haircut emporia, a spa, lots of bars, a sushi palace, etc.). http://www.saltdistrict.net

    You’re right about such neighborhoods not being Chauncey-friendly. Everyone here works or is seriously dealing with their issues, or they are dead meat. You better have a reason to be here. It is NOT touristy until you get to Armoury Square, and even that is limited to the Rubenstein Museum of Science and Technology kiddie arcade. Most facilities are sensibly enough tailored to the locals.

    Sorry. Can’t handle suburbs. Never could. I like to (and have to, I’m going effing blind LOL) walk, I like face time with the neighborhood folks, I like police walking beats and on bicycles, I like neighborhoods period which do not exist in suburbs, and there’s too much stoopid sh*t going down in the burbs (breaking and entering, dealer nonsense (20-30 Beemers show up in sequence at one house between the hours of 1 am and 3 am then disappear; you know it’s a church meeting), random stuff like job losers shooting their whole families then themselves, 2 hours for emergency services to arrive (if ever) and the whole Simpson routine. Bleagh.

    My work’s blue collar (as in freelance union artisan), where I live is WORKING blue collar (conservative, small business owner or shift worker, church going) as opposed to skeezer dweasle dole monkey land. No one can live in the latter, including dole skeezers for long, that’s the whole point of sequestering them into their own little compounds, they have to move on to work or they go mad or back to wherever they came from, usually jail. Gotta know your neighborhoods.

    BTW, you should search-engine WordPress for the Delingpole. Lots of hate stuff on “denialists” including Epic Log by the yard at each and every one of the anti-anti-AGW blogs.

  180. crownarmourer says:

    Walt much prefer a quiet country village with small shops, a butchers, a bakers, news agents, off license (liquor store), pubs and a post office. All now sadly probably gone thanks to big box stores. Countryside within walking distance a country park that is full of follies open to the public. Wild beasties of all sorts close by. Each to their own but you are correct about the burbs strange things go on there very dysfunctional all apparently wonderful on the outside but when you scratch the surface all sorts of weird stuff happening. You always get a red neck neighbour or some nasty old couple who have nothing better to do than make your life hell.

  181. Edward. says:

    “Sorry. Can’t handle suburbs. Never could. I like to (and have to, I’m going effing blind LOL) walk, I like face time with the neighborhood folks, I like police walking beats and on bicycles, I like neighborhoods period which do not exist in suburbs, and there’s too much stoopid sh*t going down in the burbs ”

    It is good to walk and I like police knocking about, beat policing is the only way, no ifs no buts, too many British plod will not get out of their cars, policing has to ‘be in your face’ at a local level and thus police get to know an area, it is the only way.


  182. Edward. says:

    ScouseBilly says:
    June 29, 2010 at 1:37 am
    Nicely Billy.
    Felt sorry for Rooney, when I played (not at his level -grin) everybody has those times where and when nothing goes right, golfers, cricketers, all sportsmen/women have or are affected at one time or another, nowt you can do about it – mind you it is worse for tennis and golf players – there is no one to blame but yours truly.
    He wants to go on holiday and laugh a bit, bless him.
    Holding midfielder, oh yes…..watching Schweinsteiger……..I’d have told someone to have a go at him, wind him up a bit, get in his face, same with Ozil he was great!………. just what we needed…….errr……. oh yes and a central defender or two.



  183. ScouseBilly says:

    Edward. says:
    June 29, 2010 at 3:28 am

    One of my friend’s has a teenage son who is the spitting image of Schweinsteiger – we call him Bastien.
    I was over there to watch the Algeria game/debacle wearing my “Deutschland” scarf.
    Had to explain that it’s my Liverpool scarf and, therefore, showing my support for England. It’s funny how other England supporters don’t get that we Scousers won’t be seen dead sporting the cross of St George – not anti-England, at all, just to us it’s as “plastic” as only getting the tennis raquet out for 2 weeks in June 😉

    Right, off to watch Brazil Chile…

  184. Pointman says:


    Did you hear the joke about the Algeria game? A disgusted fan left the stadium saying that if the best his team could do against such a third rate team was draw, then it made him ashamed to call himself an Algerian.


  185. ScouseBilly says:

    Pointy, lol.

    On Blatter and FIFA:

    Click to access M169Chap4.pdf

  186. Edward. says:
    June 29, 2010 at 3:10 am

    We have a satellite police station in the community centre two blocks from here which is also the run-to facility for in-progress family arguments and domestic abuse avoidance, complete with a female policeperson intervention specialist. The satellite station gets police rookies in who are of local Hessian and Prussian dairy farmer stock (Washington’s mercenaries were paid with New York state and North Carolina land grants) who are scared to death of downtown and have never been downtown except for the farmer’s market and the annual St. Patrick’s Day and Xmas massacrees, yet after about six months on the job, buy a local HUD one buck fix-em-upper then move in themselves. The favourite strategy is to buy a quadplex and move into one then rent out the other units.

    Crownarmourer, I spent the first 14 years of life in Port Huron, Michigan, a kind of place not unlike what you describe, and when it turned into a bespoke white flight town after being an industrial working class town with fine woods and waterfront for the masses to use for 100 years, we were out of there, as we couldn’t afford to live anymore in the town Dad worked in. The other bit was the new kids whose parents had money made us kids feel like squatters and vagrants when we had to have jobs to have any spending money at all (I had a paper route and Big Sis baby-sitted for the grownup factory girls to the point where she almost absent-mindedly tucked in Little Brother for the night before thinking twice, then giving him a stealthy but hard smack). Nicey-wicey can be pretty mean; give me basic folk any day. Even if they are a bit feral or most often, intensely put upon and therefore edgy and hypersensitive, at least you know where they are coming from.

    I was sitting in Tar Trucks with my laptop watching an old Alvin Lee video of him performing at the Fillmore East and the guy at the table next to me asked what the slimey stuff was on his face. I said, “Sweat,” and he gave me a dirty look. Today is weirder than any other time in history. No one at the G8/G20 meetings said anything about “We all have to WORK harder to get the job done.” There was no mention of work.

  187. msher says:

    I am listening to financial news at the market closing today. The anchors are talking about Exxon and Apple. Exxon has been going down (I think I can guess why) and is at a 52-week low. Apple is poised to take over as the largest market cap company in the U.S.

    Does this make sense to anyone in terms of actual economics?

    What is the relevance to AGW? Well, have the greenies brought oil artificially down? (The anchors said demand is back up to pre-recession levels.) And I bet greenies all use Apple products as a symbol of being anti-corporate. (OK, I might be getting carried away here. I like Apple products myself. But there is sort of a “hope and change” quality to Apple. “Cost doesn’t matter because we are cool and we will change the world so it’s for all us cool people.”)

    Another interesting thing. Tesla Motors, which is recipient of a $4oo million-plus Department of Energy loan for its electric car, is doing an IPO and just increased the size. The analysts mentioned that the Tesla car will face competition from the GM VOLT. But not to worry. In addition to the $400 million plus loan Tesla got from the Department of Energy, there is apparently going to be a $7,500 tax credit to subsidize individuals’ purchases of the $57,000 sedan. Is it just me who thinks the Obama Administration and Democratic Congress are out to bankrupt the U.S.? But I have to admit I am not hearing much protest from the Republicans.


    The Supreme Court also got into the act on computer software for weather-based risk in commodities trading. Shades of captainsherlock! The Court ruled against two inventors who were seeking to patent a method for hedging weather-based risk in commodities trading. However, from the following description, I would say that the court basically left the issue open for case by case decision as to what patents might be valid for weather-based risk, and that some patents will be held valid.

    “The justices unanimously agreed with an appeals court that the method was too abstract to be patented, but the high court used a different analysis to reach that conclusion, disagreeing with the lower court’s legal test.

    The Supreme Court found itself deeply divided on the broader question in the case: whether business methods could be patented at all.

    The court’s majority said business methods were not categorically excluded from patent protection.

    Justice Anthony Kennedy, writing for the majority, declined to adopt ‘ categorical rules that might have wide-ranging and unforeseen impacts,’ and chose instead to decide the case narrowly.

    ‘With ever more people trying to innovate and thus seeking patent protections for their inventions, the patent law faces a great challenge in striking the balance between protecting inventors and not granting monopolies over procedures that others would discover by independent, creative application of general principles,’ Kennedy wrote. ‘Nothing in this opinion should be read to take a position on where that balance ought to be struck.'”


    If James is back on the case, here is a story he might pursue. It was mentioned a while ago that former Freddy Mae CEO, and Obama and Barney Frank pal, Franklin Raines, got a patent a few years ago for a residential cap and trade system. (Franks’ long term live-in lover was a high ranking exec. at Freddy Mae, which might explain why Congress refused Bush requests to regulate Freddy Mae. I don’t think the boyfriend is implicated in the patent scandal.) Raines denies he holds the patent personally, saying that Fannie Mae owns it. Fannie Mae controls most of the mortgages in the U.S. Which ownership is more frightening?

    What will the Supreme Court as constituted after the newest appointment (Kagen) do with a residential cap and trade patent?



  188. msher says:

    Sorry. In my previous post, I wasn’t consistent in naming the government agency I meant to: Fannie Mae. I see that “Freddy” snuck in a few times. I didn’t catch it.

  189. Amanda says:


    There’s nothing than I enjoy more than unbridled irony, darling (well, not much); however, your post struck me as being yet more of the earnest strike-up-the-band-for-James-the-god-emperor, the theme song being one we’ve heard before from the Delingpole clan. We know that you think James can do no wrong (as his own blob blurb happily proclaims), so forgive me if what would be irony and indeed parody coming from anyone else sounded instead like straightforward philadelphic outpourings to me.

    As for technical savvy, I’ve got plenty enough thanks, and certainly more than James. My point was that a commentary system should not be intuitive and should not require one to lavish time picking the lock if one is just a casual user — and I am now just a casual user. I do not have my computer permanently open to the Daily Telenaff. The system is not user-friendly enough and it ought to be. Unlike James, I am not paid to post and if it’s a nuisance to do so I’ll go elsewhere. Such as I’ve done.

    P. S. to everyone: ‘The Daily Terrible’ was beneath my usual standards but my brain has now been refreshed by a sojourn in the mountains, to say nothing of a fried chicken sandwich with sweet potato chips (yum). Anyway I don’t think the DT is terrible. I’m fond of the old girl, really. I just dislike the things we’ve all been grousing about.

  190. Amanda says:

    Ahem. That should be ‘blog blurb’ or ‘blurg’ for short.

  191. Amanda says:

    Correction #2: should be intuitive: take the ‘not’ out.

    Fire the proofreader!

  192. Amanda says:


    Many thanks for that menu of Tasmanian delights, complete with links that I shall follow up on. I’m the whisky drinker (the everything-drinker, actually), so that will be my future corner of delight; and Tasmania had better watch out because its honey supply is about to be seriously depleted.

    Waitrose FYI is in my opinion the best supermarket in Britain. Alas, we do not have it in the U. S. A.

  193. Amanda says:

    Oh, Brownbess: Did I misread or did you miswrite? Guess what my answer is.

  194. Amanda says:


    How dare you suggest that my equipment is possessed by Bill Gates or by anything wearing spectacles and a toupee! I’ll have you know that I’ve seen the ghost in my machine: he must be an angel cause he’s dressed all in white, though the rhinestones are slightly puzzling.

  195. crownarmourer says:

    amanda then to placate your angel you need to feed it deep fried peanut butter and jelly banana sandwiches.

  196. Ozboy says:

    G’day all

    Well GE—sorry, JD—is at least back to commenting at DT. That’s a start.

    We’ll see how his enthusiasm for doing so continues when he sees his words bumped from the front page after one silly outburst from The BNP Wants To Issue Passports To Middle Aged Potheads Like Me Along With A One Way Ticket To Some Eco Outpost Like Antarctica Or Somewhere That Doesn’t Have The Internet

    Just a reminder: entries in the Express Your Disqust LibertyGibbert Writing Competition close on Friday. I’ve got the prize for the prose/poetry section sitting here (I’m putting Ian Plimer’s retirement forward, and mine back) and will set up an online poll for you to judge the best story.

  197. crownarmourer says:

    Well ozboy here’s my writing effort I’m a real minimalist.

    chapter 1.
    The Universe began.
    chapter 2.
    Lots of stuff happened except AGW.
    chapter 3.
    The Universe ended.

  198. crownarmourer says:

    I expect the smartarse of the year award for that one.

    Not even close crowny, not even close – Oz 😆

  199. Edward. says:

    Ozboy, et al,

    Looks like a fight in Britain Dr. R. North is threatening litigation.
    I think it is a lot of hot air (Amazongate) on Moonbats part, to me it is a cul de sac and the IPCC were just wrong (and so were the Times – the pussies) but the argument goes on, Richard is not amused anymore, can’t say I blame him though.
    Seems also to get Izal all annoyed (scrolling on Cif), can’t be a bad thing.

    @ crownarmourer says:
    June 29, 2010 at 8:38 am

    Thought you had that award in your pocket every year – LOL!
    Thank you for, all of your entertaining and informed comment (grovel).

    I could go into a diatribe about how the police service is being and has been completely pussified and how it is full of different organisations; the black police officers association, Gay and transgendered association, pagan religious association of police officers – you get the picture.
    Then there is ACPO the association of chief police officers and it goes on:-

    Plus if you ring for emergency service 999, you may have to wait, however if your call involves a hate crime, “well sir that’s different!”
    “Please choose from the menu…..press 1 for transgender “blah blah!!
    More concerned about calling someone a darkie, than a bod’ getting his head kicked in on the street or having his house burgled………WTF is going on???!**!
    End rant.


  200. Amanda says:

    Crownarmourer: Where does the jelly come in? I thought it was just fried bread, peanut butter, and banana. I have to try that before I die. Which is what will happen when I eat it, of course.

  201. Search the Web on Snap.com says:


    Where does the jelly come in? I thought it was just fried bread, peanut butter, and banana. I’ll have to try it before I die. Which is what will happen once I’ve eaten it.

  202. Amanda says:

    Um, no, that comment was by me, Amanda. I have no idea what that other thing is.

  203. Amanda says:

    Paranoia alert! The Internet has hijacked my identity! And it’s doing that annoying thing that people like one’s brother used to do: repeating whatever you say! Is this a cosmic signal that I ought to stay away from the Internet?

    Just kidding.

  204. Amanda says:


    I would just like to thank you one more time for tolerating my presence — nay, making me feel welcome — on your website. I have sweet donny osmond to say about AGW these days, and have not struck many blows for libertarianism, either. (Though it ought to be clear that I am anti-wind turbine.) But I do so enjoy your blog. It’s like the Telenaff in the old days, only without the trolls….

    Aw shucks ma’am, t’aint nothin’…

    Actually my baby sister and brother-in-law from Texas are in Oz and staying with us next week. I’m sort of an honorary Texan and have Texas paraphernalia all over the walls here – Oz

  205. msher says:


    I am confused. (A fairly frequent occurence.) Did James post as DT Editor? If not, then as what? And if not, who/what is DT Editor?

  206. crownarmourer says:

    Amanda it is either your about to turn into a being of pure energy or ozboys blog has attracted some attention.

  207. crownarmourer says:

    msher the dt editor I talked to? Oh I was hoping nobody was going to read that far back because I was er bad.

  208. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Hi Walt,

    Earlier, you ask “the Oz economy is in pretty good shape, right?”

    Perhaps not. In the ’90s, several terms of Labor largess left us with a major deficit. It took the Howard Liberal Govt 11 years to pay out the deficit and give us a $35 billion surplus (our population 22 million). Enter KRudd who took 2 years to turn that into a $350 million deficit and the Treasurer, despite dodging questions with promises of disclosing exactly WHO is being so generous in the May budget, refused to do so. We have no idea to whom we are so indebted. In other words, who owns the joint?

    Our economy, although affected by the global downturn, has never been in serious strife due to the Mining Industry. This country is a giant quarry – coal, iron ore, oil, natural gas, uranium, silica sands et al. No value-adding by actually processing these materials as our biggest smelters and foundries have closed down. We just exported the pollution and buy back iron and steel for the little manufacturing that’s left.

    KRudd’s debt mostly went on Hundreds (in some cases Thousands) of dollars in payouts to the citizenry, all borrowed and which their kids will be paying off. That’s why they call it a slush-fund, buying votes. There have been all kinds of Green Projects that have just slurped up the cash and continue to do so.

    As for your tax system…..Sorry Walt, it gave me a headache. If I had a clue about tax we wouldn’t have had the same tax accountant for nearly 30 years (he’s retired now but still does our stuff – sort of like the quaint old notion of the family doctor LOL). In most States the biggest employers get taxed on their temerity to employee people, thus it’s Payroll Tax. Outsourcing employment has been a boon for many, but being able to deduct the amount of tax those employees pay from your own liability is truly “out there”.

    Employment Agencies and Contract employees have allowed Govt to conceal the true size of its workforce. Bit like Unemployment Figures really. Instead of multiplying the number of dole payments to give us the numbers, they have a phone poll of a few hundred people and if you have had ONE HOUR’S paid work in the last week, you’re NOT unemployed even if you’re in receipt of the full dole. Extrapolate the figures over the workforce numbers and bingo! – low unemployment figures that bear no relationship to reality.

    Mrs KRudd has a number of employment agencies and even tho she had to sell her Oz operations when he got to be PM, she still has her UK interests and she’s currently worth about $56 million. Poor Kev will never catch up at this rate.

    Our inflation rate is measured by the Consumer Price Index (CPI) and our Govt pensions and benefits as well as minimum wage rates are indexed to that notional rate. It’s fantasmagorical and bears little relationship to what folks actually pay for anything but it keeps Govts looking good to keep inflation “low”.

    Sheesh, it’s too early in the day for this…I need an aspirin LOL


  209. msher says:


    I have no idea what I read. Not only am I in the midst of my normal state of confusion, I am really, really unusually confused. According to the news, the U.S. Government late this afternoon announced that the North Korean attack on a South Korean navy ship, which killed 46 South Korean soldiers, was NOT an act of terrorism. Well, I sort of agree with that, but it WAS an act of war. My heightened state of confusion stems from a complete inability to fathom why the U.S. Government made this helpful announcement.

    And OK, who is “DT editor?”

    You know, my way of doing things – taking material at face value and dealing with it at face value – really simplifies things. I never had to worry about who the poster really was.

  210. crownarmourer says:

    msher it is the real dt editor, just testing the handheld software. he is the actual editor or one of the editors that is he knows brownbess by the look of things.

  211. msher says:


    “handheld software?” He edits from his PDA?

    Ozboy said James made a comment. I went back through the pages and I missed it. Do you know where it is?

  212. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    msher says:
    June 28, 2010 at 10:34 pm

    “But by our crude, uncultured, boorish standards of public discourse, that is how that piece is perceived. I want the spokesperson for the position I hold to sound better than that”.

    Hi Msher

    We colonials too, are often considered “uncultured boors” (thanks in part to Barry Humphries’ personna as our “cultural attache) and your statement says exactly what I mean. I get what you meant about the PhDs, especially Cloudman (wonder where he went), but I found so many links to such qualified opinion from posters that I didn’t really “get” why they’d have to be DT posters to make the blog relevant.

    Your comment to Oz…
    “Thank you for your forbearance in letting me post what I post earlier and allowing it to stay on the thread”.

    Oz is a Libertarian. I can’t speak for him, but I reckoned he’d be upset if you felt you couldn’t speak your mind and as for leaving it there…….. no question.
    Most Aussies (with old-school integrity) will respect a constructive critic and their backbone in being honest, and usually “cop it sweet”. For me, JD’s spiteful retort to those posters he considered critics was crass and over-the-top. If I thought Ozboy was also paddling that leaky canoe, I’d go prune my roses. He’s not thankfully, ‘cos I don’t have any roses LOL.

  213. Blackswan Tasmania says:


    James Delingpole
    Today 12:22 PM
    Recommended by
    7 people
    Wow! WOW! This is the first time since the changeover I’ve been able to comment on my blog! (And some of you thought I’d become too grand….). Anyway, just in case anyone else has the problem, it had to do with going to Preferences in Firefox and enabling all the cookies….
    Normal service will now be resumed. I’ve been dying to comment for ages, not least to register my nausea at the way certain contributors of a quacking variety have been trying to lord it over the comments section as if they were important or interesting.

  214. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Hi Amanda,

    Glad you liked the glimpse of Tassie and if you ever do get to try our produce, enjoy.
    Throw in a plethora of cool climate wines, huge lobsters, crabs, scallops, oysters, abalone, Atlantic salmon, all the berry-fruits, beef, truffles and cheeses and happy days……….

    When we came back here 4 years ago, we resolved to make our “autumn years” one giant pub-crawl (so to speak) trying every eating-house and cellar-door till we ran out of money/enthusiasm whichever came first. LOL

  215. Amanda says:


    Mr A wants to know: ‘How can I move there and be gainfully employed?’ You’re filling his head with dreams of Tasmania. He’ll do any kind of work at any vineyard. Especially wine-taster!

  216. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Edward. says:
    June 29, 2010 at 9:14 am

    G’day Ed,

    Thanks for those links to Dr North’s response to Monbiot. Fantastic!
    More power to the good Doctor. We await the outcome with avid interest.

  217. Amanda says:

    G’day Blackswan:

    Mr A wants to know: ‘How can I move there and be gainfully employed?’ You’re filling his head with dreams of Tasmania. He’ll do any kind of work at any vineyard. Especially wine-taster!

    Tell him he isn’t the only Texan thinking of moving here 🙂

    If you’re even half-serious, check out this site – Oz

  218. Search the Web on Snap.com says:

    Connection problems… repeats… sorry.

  219. Blackswan Tasmania says:


    Tell Mr A that we are always short of seasonal vine pruners and grape pickers, but the last time we were on the east coast, large tracts of vines have been planted designed for automated pruning and picking. Drat automation. I bet they’ve even done away with those big tubs for grape squishing by bare-legged young women.

  220. msher says:

    Black Swan

    Thanks. I still can’t find James’ comment on his blog. It’s probably there somewhere, but I’ve gone through twice, don’t see it and that’s as much as I’m willing to do. (Is it just me who isn’t finding any order in where comments are put?) What you reproduced isn’t exactly the tone I was hoping he would come back with!

    Personally, I urge those close to James to consider occasionally saying to James: “No, don’t write that, that doesn’t become you, that is counter productive, not in this forum, you can sound smarter.”

    I still want him to continue succeeding.

    Re science PhD’s: not necessary, but I think a compliment that they would bother posting on a non-scientist’s blog.

  221. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Hi Msher,

    If you choose the “oldest first” option on the disgust box that defaults to “newest” usually, JD’s comment, along with his photo avatar is on page 3.

    I only saw it because I was doing a quick lurk before Bed last night. Now I’ll go back and read his blog – oops, I think my toenails need trimming. Maybe later. LOL

  222. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Have you got your tongue out of your cheek yet re your JD reply?
    If the “grand” bit wasn’t so, I’d have expected a drop-in here for a G’day or two.

    Good link for Amanda and Mr A. So many more people here now fleeing the rat-race than when we turned up as “refugees” nearly 30 years ago.

    No response yet on my letter posted last week. Sad but still hopeful.

  223. crownarmourer says:

    msher if your still looking for James D look for the really dorky avatar I mean the one that looks like him.

  224. crownarmourer says:

    msher select oldest first in the drop down box page 3 listed as James Delingpole, ozboy has a comment directly underneath.

  225. crownarmourer says:

    blackswan I must be getting old you had already posted how to get there.

  226. Blackswan Tasmania says:
    June 29, 2010 at 10:34 am

    It gave me massive headaches too, and still does, but stuff like calculating the relative tax impact of direct hire versus contingent brokered labour is the easy part of spreadsheeting.

    How you deduct your contingent workforce’s taxes and actually get them back, leaving the government with a “net nothing” revenue-neutral tax inflow from the rented labout as an employment contractor’s client firm is when you are invoiced, and you pay your monthly bill for 100 grand of workhours from the Fuzzy Bunny Rabbit Bullwhip and Legirons Expendable Single Parent Rent-A-Chattel Agency, that entire 100 grand is deductible in full as an operating expense from your calculated returns according to your national tax code. When the client firm of the labour pimp files their taxes and get their refund, that gross deductibility is reflected in the size of their refund immensely.

    This is why renting of employees as a commodity at a markup was illegal for so many, many years, and still ought to be, unless, as prevailed in the days before the 1980’s, separate returns for the rented-out workforce were submitted by the employment contractor to the inland revenue folks which contained separate, direct payment with a signed affadavit which indicated the client firm did not declare the true labourers’ tax payment component of their contract as deductible (in other words, both the labour pimp and their client had to provide independent assurances that the taxes paid by the subcontract labour involved were not counted into the deductible operating expenses; it’s why you had to and have to still sign what are known as “yellow dog” or non-compete/non-circumvent contracts with the labour pimp as a subcontract worker as, if the client knows by law what you are really getting paid as chattel, they will hire you direct. That is known as short-circuiting an employment contract).

    It’s really a mind-numbing bore, but there theoretically is some interest as to why the Western world is going broke, and the mechanics of it are fairly simple, so I thought I would bring it up. The problem is, as you pointed out in describing the fortune made by an Australian lady in employment contracting, the exploitation of one group of people is so often the key to economic progress for another exploited group LOL! It’s called “playing the smelly peasants off against each other.”

    This is also another instance in which the absurd and bizarre transformation of social relations by ruthless backroom digital clickety-clicks has resulted in the rendering of political classifications to a state of near-complete meaninglessness. At one time, direct versus marked-up and rented labour issues used to be a liberal concern, now it is a libertarian one. Vide the attached articles from 1992, which publication now Der Sturmer and therefore mandatory reading for the Greentards, but it is a good article on this subject:


    Here is another older work on the subject. It’s not PC to mention this sort of exploitation anymore, as surprise! employment contracting has opened so many doors to prosperity for so many subsidized-degree’d “oppressed minorities:”


    Here’s how you, too, can put together your own galley of oarspersons as drumbeater which document also outlines the very tax benefits to the client firm I identified:


    Here’s a nice article from “Workforce Management” Magazine on contingent labour, a copy of which was on the desk of one of the Les Grossman-type managers who thought he would take a swing at Vacation Bible Churchboy, which was my nickname on one contract amongst those with a bent toward the ironic. It’s what I look like. People expect to see me toting a bible until they look into my eyes Bwahahahaha! :


    Again, I apologize for being a bore, but this does relate directly to AGW in that AGW is but another wheeze, as well you know, for otherwise unemployables to chisel hard cash out of people who are genuinely doing useful work in exchange for providing zero-value-added “management skills.” There is no limit to the ingenuity of the workshy, especially when they feel their degree, gender and ethnicity entitles them to the very best of the very best, and they aren’t shy about ruining other people’s lives to get it.

    And yes, my politics are conservative. There is nothing more conservative than focusing on getting paid. The problem is, governments haven’t focused on collecting what they ought for thirty years, not from the labour pimps and their clients who have scarpered down the pike with 25-40% of the contingent workforces’ earnings in the form of indirectly pocketed tax receipts. AGW based policies add yet another dimension to the pilfering of the workforce and consumer and industry at large in exchange for zero-value-added “management and administration.”

    I’ve designed software systems for some of those labour pimps (mostly construction) and seen the industry up close over a number of years. I can tell you that I never walked away from a meeting with that crowd without feeling the need to take a shower – Oz

  227. I still don’t get why the Left feels they “own” labour issues, either. Someone needs to explain that to me in detail. I have dozens of card-carrying welder and boilermaker buddies from locals all across America and Canada, and most of them are stern conservatives who routinely tell their leadership to go eff themselves and vote for the Republicans or Conservatives. Now that I think of it, I really don’t know ANY labour union member who isn’t to the Right of Genghiz Khan.

    Now I’m confused. :>p

  228. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Hi all,

    Just watching a doco on Disasters over lunch, and well I’ll be………
    Is there no end to this crap?
    After looking at the devastation of Katrina, we are treated to…….

    What would happen if such a storm hit New York City? With the seas STILL rising due to AGW, if you didn’t drown in the floods you’d be killed by shards of glass from all those skyscraper windows. If you sought refuge in a high-rise, you’d get “sucked-out” of all those broken windows by the wind.

    I’m going back to taking lunch with a good book – at least that won’t give me indigestion like bloody AGW propaganda.
    Those bastards have such a bloody nerve………….

  229. msher says:

    Black Swan

    At least that kind of movie is real escapism. “Towering Inferno” movies don’t work any more has a fun romp at the cinema. (Actually, as someone who lived and worked in New York on high floors, I never liked “Towering Inferno” movies.)

  230. Well, what the hell, as long as I am going to bore everyone to death, let me do for you what I did for 35 of 50 state directors for labor departments nationwide in the USA in thumbnail form via fax and phone over three years. One actually responded, the nice executive director of the State of Vermont’s Department of Labour, and introduced and had implemented a Governor’s Executive Order to provide special reg’s to avoid employee leasing violations of the tax code in 1996. It is just too much work for even 10 people to try to make even a beentsy difference to such ameliorate the effects of such widespead and “perfectly respectable” corruption, corruption as in rot.

    Let’s assume the USA has 160 million workers. Let’s assume on the very low side their average income is $25,000 for the past 30 years. Let’s also assume that 30% of them are contingent workers, and that they each pay 25% total taxes to Federal, state and local tax authorities. If the taxes paid by these contingent workers is returned in full as a tax refund to clients of the employment contractors, the governments of the USA are missing out on:

    $160,000,000 times 25,000 bucks times 30% times 25% times 30 years in equals $9,000,000,000,000. This does not include the markup on that rented out labour which is just funny money with no zero-added-value provided by the labour pimp except turning in an invoice to the client and foodling with the timecards. This markup can be anywhere from 20% to 100% of the base rate of worker pay plus bennies, if any of the latter are provided.

    What difference would a net additional positive tax flow of 300 billion per year into governmental tax coffers have made to the USA’s fortunes over the past thirty years? If thirty percent of that total amount were the Fed’s that would about equal our present actual national debt on the several Federal levels on which it exists.

    If 14 million people default on housing loans, we get the 2006-2007 crisis. If 43,000 employment contractors across America do the dirty as outlined above for 30 years, we get what?

  231. theendisnighnot says:

    probably more relevant to previous thread but got sent this by a mate in OZ….


    Suppose that every day, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten comes to $100.

    If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this;

    The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.
    The fifth would pay $1
    The sixth would pay $3
    The seventh would pay $7
    The eighth would pay $12
    The ninth would pay $18
    The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59

    So, that’s what they decided to do..

    The ten men drank in the bar every day and seemed quite happy with
    the arrangement, until one day, the owner threw them a curve ball.

    “Since you are all such good customers,” he said, “I’m going to
    reduce the cost of your daily beer by $20”. Drinks for the ten men
    would now cost just $80.

    The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes.

    So the first four men were unaffected.

    They would still drink for free. But what about the other six men – the paying customers?

    How could they divide the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his fair share?

    They realised that $20 divided by six is $3.33.
    But if they subtracted that from everybody’s share, then the fifth man and the
    sixth man would each end up being paid to drink his beer.

    So, the bar owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each
    man’s bill by a higher percentage the poorer he was, to follow the
    principle of the tax system they had been using, and he proceeded to
    work out the amounts he suggested that each should now pay.

    And so the fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% saving).

    The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33% saving).

    The seventh now paid $5 instead of $7 (28% saving).

    The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 (25% saving).

    The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 (22% saving).

    The tenth now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% saving).

    Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four
    continued to drink for free. But, once outside the bar, the men began
    to compare their savings.

    “I only got a dollar out of the $20 saving,” declared the sixth man.

    He pointed to the tenth man,”but he got $10!”

    “Yeah, that’s right,” exclaimed the fifth man. “I only saved a dollar
    too. It’s unfair that he got ten times more benefit than me!”

    “That’s true!” shouted the seventh man. “Why should he get $10 back,
    when I got only $2? The wealthy get all the breaks!”

    “Wait a minute,” yelled the first four men in unison, “we didn’t get
    anything at all. This new tax system exploits the poor!”

    The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.

    The next night the tenth man didn’t show up for drinks, so the nine
    sat down and had their beers without him. But when it came time to
    pay the bill, they discovered something important. They didn’t have
    enough money between all of them for even half of the bill!

    And that, boys and girls, journalists and government ministers, is
    how our tax system works.

    The people who already pay the highest taxes will naturally get the
    most benefit from a tax reduction..

    Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may
    not show up anymore.

    In fact, they might start drinking overseas, where the atmosphere is
    somewhat friendlier.

    David R. Kamerschen, Ph.D.
    Professor of Economics.

    For those who understand, no explanation is needed.
    For those who do not understand, no explanation is possible.

  232. msher says:

    Black Swan

    I hate typo’s even though I hold the world’s record for making them. Let me correct an obvious one in my last post. It should have read:

    At least that kind of movie is real escapism. “Towering Inferno” movies don’t work any more as a fun romp at the cinema. (Actually, as someone who lived and worked in New York on high floors, I never liked “Towering Inferno” movies.)

  233. I stopped and didn’t cover the other fifteen states after touching base with the State of Florida’s Department of Labour and consequently found out what a labour relations management consulting firm does. One consultant came to my doorstep in Barre, Vermont, and asked me what I was doing, and I invited him in for a coffee. We had a laugh or two, and then he outlined what could happen to me in court to include being extradited to Florida for various criminal offenses straight out of the 1930’s which are still on the books.

    We parted friends, and I gave him a copy of Dashiell Hammett’s “The Red Harvest,” which he was familiar with and got the joke. That’s when my freelancing career started LOL! I tried exactly once applying at Manpower and the girl put me through the computer then said, “You’re kidding, right?” Blackballing still exists.

  234. theendisnighnot says:
    June 29, 2010 at 1:44 pm

    The results are even worse when the taxes the littleAND big guy and gal pay never reach their intended recipient (some IT consultants who are typically rented out through agencies net for themselves $100,000 per year; 50/hour is actually a bit on the light side, with 125/hour being the norm for next to the metal coders for RISC architecture related controller system software design work for electric utility grids).

  235. crownarmourer says:

    Walt reminds of what happened back home one day, my father worked for a large American conglomerate (the company had been founded by the people who had owned Kunta Kinte) they treated the staff well, parties for the kids at Christmas and regular good pay raises. Well some stupid bugger in HR hired two blackballed union commie activists who got the workforce riled up and demanded a union for no good reason. Well a strike was quickly forthcoming and they got there union. Soon after the good pay raises dried up and so did all the good will parties and free turkey at Christmas. Which is why I have no love for unions these union men had previously drove a couple of profitable companies into the ground one of the reasons I’m a conservative these days.

  236. crownarmourer says:

    Walt my own father is a conservative because he has run his own businesses and realizes that hard work to be successful should be rewarded because the only person who owns the business is also responsible for the risk in the UK, unless you are big enough to be a limited liability company.

  237. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    G’day Walt,

    Thanks and you’re right – it’s all part of the deal. Restore a peasant class. These folks is gettin’ just too uppity or theys own good.

    Speaking of “inflation”, ever noticed how the cardboard cylinder in your toilet roll is getting bigger? Noticed how the paper is getting “textured”? Looks fat and oh-so-soft but there’s a whole lot less paper on there.

    What about the 1 kilo bag of “anything”, that you usually grab in a hurry and are paying more for, is actually now 750 grams. That’s a 25% reduction but not included in “inflation”. Or the can of “anything” that used to be 440gms but now 400gms or a pack of biscuits that used to be 250gms now 200 with smaller flatter biscuits (cookies for you guys in the US).

    THAT’s inflation, but never acknowledged in our Consumer Price Index to which wages and pensions are fixed, and bloody theft by the food industry who must have spent squillions on retooling their production lines. Smaller product, have to buy more often.

    You’re right Walt, there’s a whole lot more than AGW we should be yelling about.

  238. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    The main reason for my indignation was that it a “Documentary”, not billed as some sort of fictional “what-if” entertainment and screened on ABC TV, our version of the BeeB.

    BTW – re the Inferno movie. Every single time I hop on our vehicular ferry for the overnight 200 km journey to the mainland, I’m reminded of the Poseidon Adventure. For that reason, and justified by the “fore-warned is fore-armed” principle, I’m always particular about just where my cabin is. And I’m always reassured by the sight of LOTS of heavily-laden trucks driving into the hold LOL.

  239. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Hi Crown,

    We had a bloke (another Rhodes Scholar) who had only EVER been a union organiser and spokesman, became a Labour Party head-kicker and got to be Prime Minister for a couple of terms in the 80s/90s. We’re still paying the bugger his gold-card pension.

  240. crownarmourer says:

    Blackswan I thought the traditional Oz way was to encourage them go swimming in strong currents at sea. You guys may need to enshrine that in law.

  241. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Hi Crown,

    They’re too smart these days. What we think are bullet-proof vests under their suits are actually self-inflating flotation devices.

  242. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    PS and they don’t let anyone near them with an umbrella in the rain – that’s why they’re inclined to wear wide-brimmed Akubra hats for photo-ops.

  243. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Amanda my very dear,

    You are the winner-takes-all blogger of the year LOL

    I’m glad you didn’t suggest a Tassie red – hahahahahaha

  244. Edward. says:

    Atlantic salmon in Tassie?
    Pacific surely, not big on fish migration myself.


  245. Edward. says:

    Come to think of it, I know nothing of piscatorial matters!


  246. crownarmourer says:

    Edward you taking the pisc?

  247. Edward. says:


    Reading through your post on Aus’ mining, you stated that there is little or no processing of said materials anymore.
    Wow a first world economy not processing it’s own raw materials, I suppose the green lobby are orgasmic over that fact, less CO2 in the atmosphere blah blah.
    So dig it up export it to China and receive it back in steel whatever, seems a trifle illogical, still the greenies are happy – but why? Surely there is more CO2 generated if ores go to China etc…….What happened to economies of scale? Short journey from mine to smelter and longer to market…..hmmm, I guess it’s better the other way around.
    At least you have vast mineral resources, in the UK we have long since exhausted ours, mind you on and off we’ve been mining them since before the Romans came!

    Which brings me to my other point, industries and jobs are migrating to the East, whilst all we do is consume, make FA, sell ‘services’ – whores if you like, when Labour came to power in the UK, industry accounted for 20% of economy, now it is 12.5+/- and going down, what is the answer?
    Then I look to Japan, OK it is running a ‘rather’ large deficit but it is still one of the major world economies, a great exporter and (key word) innovator (with no natural resource other than its people) , that is the only way to go (maybe for Britain) and hope when the Indians/Chinee (what we used to call ’em) become lazy and middle class we can export nifty gadgetry to them……………… or will we have slipped into a backward, still Eastward looking………… Islamic state?
    Can’t wait to find out!
    Meanwhile in Aussieshire, when you’ve dug out the middle, you can flood it and have a new inland sea (grin)!!
    We’re all going to hell in a handcart, unless you live in a corner of the world called Tassie….shush!


  248. Edward. says:

    Edward you taking the pisc?

    Morning crown!


  249. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    G’day Ed,

    Not only are we swimming in Atlantic salmon LOL, but in the 19th century rainbow and brown trout were introduced and with 20th century hydro-power creating many lakes in our highlands, fly-fishers come here from round the world. They reckon it’s the best.
    I Gargled for info and came up with….

    Brown Trout are “commonly caught from 500gms to 3kg, but can exceed 6kg in some waters. The largest Brown was 29 pounds, taken from the Huon River, Tasmania”.

    Coincidentally, when I lived in the Huon Valley, a friend and neighbour regularly appeared at the back door with HUGE trout from the river, as his freezers were stuffed full. Tasmanians make great neighbours.

    As for Atlantic salmon/ocean trout (I can’t tell the difference), it’s farmed here in sheltered estuaries and exported all over. Sometimes, when sea lions have a go at the big underwater nets, a few get out and run up the rivers. Word flashes round among the locals and there suddenly appear a lot of blokes on the banks and bridges.

    The Law says that ALL recovered escaped fish must be returned, dead or alive, to the fish farmers. I don’t know how that’s working for them………….LOL.

    My neighbour comes round here with crayfish (lobster) ‘cos he’s got too many. I do a mean thermidor, washed down with a local Tassie semillon sauvignon blanc. In fact, I’ve got a license to put down my own cray pot in the bay, which costs me the princely sum of five dollars a year. And oysters are so prolific down on the Tasman Peninsula that we have an annual “oyster eradication day” as they’re considered a pest. Eight bucks a dozen to the tourists 😉

    But there we go swanny, banging on about our supposedly secret island again – Oz

  250. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Ed, we’re are pretty resigned to being regarded as a quarry to Asia. Some of our remote regions are pock-marked with the biggest open-cut mines you can imagine (and not-so-remote in the case of coal).

    It’s a really weird thing to drive for a couple of days “outback”, wander about (always within sight of your vehicle), stumble on a rock and see the fossilized imprint of a sea-shell. I’m no geologist but it sure put the hairs up on my neck. Every few decades major monsoon rain from the north “trickles down” through the river system and an inland sea forms at Lake Eyre, bursting with fish and water-birds.

    I’m still waiting for some smart cookie to tell me how, when the lake has been an arid salt-pan for many generations of birds, how do they know when the lake fills up? Pelicans for instance, hundreds of miles from the coast.

    No Australian with half a brain should ever claim to be bored in this amazing country.

  251. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Sorry Oz,
    Just can’t help myself. Besides, folks on this blog will always find out more about the planet, nature and its bounty than they’ll find elsewhere with AGW freaks telling them they’ll all starve to death or die of thirst if they don’t cough up their bloody carbon taxes.
    “Chewy on their boots” as they say in the classics.. LOL

  252. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    PS – to clarify my last comment for our more refined friends to the north……..

    Ever stepped on a big gob of well-chewed gum on a sun-warmed pavement?

    That’s chewy on yer boot! LOL

  253. Blackswan Tasmania says:
    June 29, 2010 at 5:21 pm

    Stop it! You’re killing me LOL! What’s a vacation? Someone tell me….

    Do they have jobs for grumpy nuisances down your way? I had a shot right after I got out of the service at a job in Oz and like a fool turned it away.

  254. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    11 seconds ago

    “@Scousebilly – Funnily enough I did wonder myself whether these programme-makers were Common Purpose.
    @everyone May I suggest that we don’t do the side-thread thing. We just post chronologically as we did in the old days. That way we don’t have to keep scrolling up and down to see what we’ve missed. Y’all up for that? ”

    No Comment.

  255. brownbess says:

    Crownarmourer @ 10.57am

    Who knows me? The editor of the Daily Telegraph? How?

  256. crownarmourer says:
    June 29, 2010 at 2:10 pm

    The unions don’t even care about the numbers, they care about who kisses whose arse, more than anything else. I’ve my ticket solely for the medical group bennies as a freelancer, but otherwise pffft. Worse, unless they are doing the craftsman routine on an intergenerational basis (and they are still there, mind you, but they are much put-upon, you get to be too good at your job and they push you off the scaffolding), they do not care to pass on what they know.

    Crafts guilds si, unskilled labour unions, nyet. It’s just we permatemp rent-a-whores pay our taxes, but if we work through an agency, they don’t go to the state or city or the Fed’s, they go to the client when they get their tax refund. It’s such a damned crock.

    It used to be the union generated work hour cost estimating handbooks were worth their weight in platinum, and now they are P.O.S.’s which no one could cost a job by, too. Wish I had a nickel for every union job I bid as an outside rent-a-whore because th econtractor who hired me actually cared about giving the customer a fair and competitive price for the job.

    I remember the Xmas parties the Detroit Edison used to give for its power plant employees which my Dad took us to as a kid. They used to load us up with toys, candies, a good feed, and a movie right in the plant (Glenn Ford’s “Cowboy” was the one I remember seeing, sitting on the floor of the power plant employee gymnasium’s basketball court. Am I that old?). The St. Clair plant also had a bowling alley and an employee restaurant that was the size of a large commercial restaurant (They fed 400 workers three times per day, full meals done up there). How did we get to the point the entire US workforce is treated no better than throwaway oafs, unless they join an effing cult or turn into government turdeaters?

    I am conservative, too, but that doesn’t mean I wouldn’t enjoy watching Warren Boofter spend a month picking oranges up a ladder and sleeping in migrant worker quarters on the orchard premises. It would probably do his ticker and general health a world of good. Ever done that before? Apple picking is another lost summer job option to youth, too, these days. The most amazing Mexican meals I ever had I got when working for a New Mexico Hispanic “commune.” Can’t do that anymore as a gringo kid. Michigan apple picking uses tree shakers and nets as they pick them too green anymore, they are like bitter-tasting rocks unless they are someone’s backyard grown. You want good apples and peaches and plums and pears, check out Bromont in the Eastern Townships of Quebec; the local bootleg peach brandy wasn’t half bad either (sigh). Best served with a raven-haired fille de roye on the side LOL!

  257. brownbess says:

    Scousebilly @ 2.18am (really?)

    I remember that Castlemorton Common rave happening. Bit of a mess. That’s pretty much my back yard these days. I also have fond memories of the mid to late 80s rave scene. But wouldn’t dream of re-visiting those experiences. It would take a month to recover. But it does seem that getting arrested by heavy-handed police is keeping up a proud tradition.

  258. Blackswan Tasmania says:
    June 29, 2010 at 6:15 pm

    It’s all wall-to-wall Duckless Wonder and the Troll Brigade now. NFI and NFW.

  259. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Hey Walt,

    Just caught your question at 6.11pm..
    “Do they have jobs for grumpy nuisances down your way?”

    No idea. (there’s that lexicon again).

    Five years ago, with the cygnets fledged and flown the nest, my swan-mate and I asked ourselves “What’s next?” Our beloved Tassie was the only answer.

    Sooooo, we decided to cinch in our belts (let ’em out a few notches since), opted for a low income and a happier life in the last semester of our years. We looked for a house on the ‘net for a while and when we had a short-list, came down for a vacation to check them out. We’d had enough of the National Capital, high income was no compensation for its toxic vibes. Found this so-so house in a location that dreams are made of, and here we are, living on bugger-all and loving it.

    I guess such things depend on what one wants out of life. Oz is a freelance and heads north as and when required, your line of work would be limited with the Greens vowing to shut down every coal-fired power plant in the country, let alone refurb old ones. Beats me.

    Still, a vacation needs to be a little more than a long weekend in Montreal.. LOL
    Take a break Walt, it’s good to remember life isn’t all about work. Still, living in your cosmopolitan environment with easy access to the centre of the universe (NYC), you’d find it reeeeeally quiet around here.

    Oz keeps telling me to quit blabbing about the place but I can’t help but want to share the good things in life with friends.


    Well you can tell Walt… just no-one else 😉

    Fact is Walt, there are PLENTY of genuine jobs down here for qualified and experienced men (oops—persons) in your line of work; I could point you in the right direction if you’re ever even semi-serious – Oz

  260. Edward. says:

    Hello Swanny,
    Wow the size of the trout! – are they good eating?

    Anyway, the lake that is a desert sometimes, yes no doubt! It is one of natures wonders (thank you for the link), my old geography master was a crusty old soul but he left in me a love of all little known geographical trivia, and Eyre was one, we actually studied Aus in some detail but my geological knowledge is sketchy, I do know Australian rocks are very old ‘shield rocks’ but the geology is vast and complicated, British geology is complicated but on a much smaller scale easier to map/hunt for evidence etc but all geology is interlinked by antiquity and tectonics.

    It used to fascinate me, dry river/lake beds…….When I used to go camping/walking, I always would mooch around looking for the flood level markers, near a stream, checking where the flood level evidence was, saved waking up in a wet tent, even if it seems dry as a bone, flash flood and it gets hairy!!
    We have chalk streams in England which periodically dry up, when they ‘spring’ back to life, they still teem with fish!
    Our avian friends are another mystery, how do they navigate round great chunks of the Northern and Southern Hemispheres?
    Indeed how is it that as soon as Eyre fills, they are there (birds), some technology they have, we don’t know it – do they communicate on some level, surely they must do?
    When one muses on the many mysteries of our planet, it makes the claims of scientists to ‘know’ (absolutely anything) seem like boyish or babyish hauteur, we know sweet FA and sometimes it is good to recognise that fact.
    There I go again!


  261. Old Toad says:

    Brownbess (6.36pm) 2 points (1) We have to assume that it is not just Damian at the DT who can check each nom-de-plume but also anyone who calls himself/herself an editor (i.e. almost everyone !)
    (2) Thus we never know who can use the ‘Editorial Avatar’, any more than we ever be sure who is in charge. now that Will Lewis has gone.
    El Commandante rightly complains that there is no ‘editorial policy’ at the Daily Telegraph, but to paraphrase Gilbert and Sullivan, ‘when everyone’s an editor, then no-ones’s anybody !’.

  262. Old Toad says:

    No wonder James occasionally (often) blows his top ! (See above)

  263. Old Toad says:

    A bit of good news you may not have picked up on . In to-day’s DT, Louise Gray interviews ‘Climate Change Minister’ Greg Barker. ‘He is committed to cutting carbon emissions but, unlike his predecessors in office, he doesn’t dismiss climate-change sceptics as “flat-earthers” – there are TOO MANY OF THEM ON THE BACK BENCHES, for him to do that.’ More power to their collective elbow !
    She uses the now-infamous pcture of ‘call me Dave’ with those huskies. Pity she didn’t use the one where they flick their shit all over him .(must be worth a fortune if any-one has a copy).

  264. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Great news Toad,

    Your back benchers must be an unruly lot. Ours are so well-schooled they’re just used as background noddies or for asking Dorothy Dixers at Question Time. Apart from that, they don’t think, don’t speak and generally don’t serve much purpose except to warm the seats in The Big House.

    Seeing as they have just risen for the long winter break, you’ll find them all over Europe and the Bahamas on “fact-finding” missions courtesy of our long-suffering taxpayers.

  265. brownbess says:

    It would be nice if the aforementioned backbenchers made themselves known.

  266. theendisnighnot says:

    just been watching NatGeo over here they’ve just had a bizzare advert re the Maldives apparently it’s going to be the “1st carbon neutral country in the world” funny thought it was sinking!!!… anyway excuse my ignorance but how does a country become carbon neutral? Does everybody stop breathing? In fairness looks like a top place to me and me and mrs endisnighnot might just give it a bash mind you the amount me and her smoke could jepordise their ambitions somewhat! Happy days eh… despite our debacle at the world cup we’re still happy and from now on i will be mostly supporting Argentina mainly coz Marrodona is barking and great fun bet he doesn’t believe in AGW!!!

  267. msher says:

    Old Toad and brownbess

    I promise that this will be my last post on tone (at least until something else happens). I love James’ newest article about “Eigg.” I can do something with that, like send it to the backers of the previous, failed California Proposition 16 (a failed voter iniative to make municipalities get voter approval before going into the uitilities business). But do I want to do that if the next article or a James’ comment in the middle of this thread is cringe-inducing? Maybe I’ll take the chance, maybe I won’t. But I have had that reaction a number of times. If I have had that reaction, so have others. How does James help himself or the skeptic cause by making people hesitate to use his work?

    OK, end of sermon.

  268. Amanda says:

    Msher at 11:52:

    You may have said it in various ways 100 times, but that’s your best statement of the situation yet.

  269. Amanda says:

    Ozboy and Blackswan:

    Well the interest in Tas IS quasi-serious, actually. It can’t come to anything now, since we’re moving to Florida in a few weeks (where the new job is). The Gulf coast — hope it isn’t ruined by then. Anyway I appreciate the links and my Favorites file is quickly getting longer.

    By the way Swanny, Mr A is mad for boutique beers so I shall make sure he sees your link on that one, too.

  270. Amanda says:


    re: your last comment: you are too kind. I suggested grand cru Burgundy because it’s so expensive!

  271. Amanda says:

    P. S. to Ozboy and Blackswan:

    My unfinished idea is that it’s Florida now but possibly Tasmania later….
    Never say never they say, and I don’t.

  272. theendisnighnot says:

    Msher i’m sure your protestations on behalf of JD are appreciated (well at least by JD) frankly as i said on an earlier thread/post i don’t care he’s a self absorbed public school twat who when the heat was on turned on his own supporters how typical of that sort of person! Myself and i know its no loss to you or the GE I feel better staying here where i can have a chat with my mates no Ducky no Grotbag etc…. just reasonable rationale life experiencing people who treat prima donnas like moonbat & your heroe with the contempt they so richly deserve. Ammanda’s sussed whats going on here your earlier attempt to portray Ozboy as some sort of turncoat was pathetic in the extreme. I wonder even if the DT format hadn’t changed if most people would have left anyway i mean we had eejits accusing people who had a different view of being inter alia paedophiles, islamists etc where do people like that get off on accusing people who they don’t know and never will of the most vilest crimes? All encouraged by your GE. I’m happy here it’s a good place (thanks Oz) no phd fuck it i don’t care i’ll listen to Walt. Ozboy ,Crown , Ammanda , Noidea and the rest anyday of the week rather than the pathetic posturing and purile insults that continue to go on at the DT. No offence meant

  273. theendisnighnot says:

    and i should say pointman also my heroe!

  274. Old Toad says:

    The Endisnighnot. Glad no offence was meant, I hope none taken, but like it or not, this blog and JD’s do have a symbiotic relationship.’GE’ was brilliantly executed and highly amusing and it would be great if we could just regard it as such. James is being called far worse things than a ‘self-absorbed public-school twat’, on the latest blog and quite a few of your friends here, including Ozboy himself, have paid a visit.
    This blog is indeed comfortable, James’s, at this moment is far less so.

  275. Amanda says:

    Blackswan sez ‘Found this so-so house in a location that dreams are made of, and here we are, living on bugger-all and loving it’.

    Golly, that’s what Mr A wants (I confess to having romantic dreams about the house as well: a country house out of P. G. Wodehouse, for example). Perhaps I shouldn’t tell him anything more about Tasmania. He’s already signed the Florida contract….

  276. brownbess says:

    I’m glad we’re having last words on this blog versus JDs.
    I can’t see how the two could ever be considered mutually exclusive.
    Ultimately, as “Climate Realists” (that is the correct term for “denier” now isn’t it?), we’re all on the same side, and any split makes us weaker.

  277. theendisnighnot says:

    Old Toad…. i think you maybe miss what i was saying as some one who came across JD’s blog maybe 8 months ago i was energised by what he said twas what i thought about this scam just found it becomming so infantile in the end and am grateful for this other place. My memory may be wrong but seem to recall before the hijacking of identities all sorts of pathetic insults were going on just on the basis of disagreeing with someone. Myself i was accussed of being a drunk just because i didn’t agree with the personal insults to people who disagree with me. i Looked last night BNP stole my passport and raped my kids or whatever accussed of smoking too much skunk!!! who are these people the puretantical front of judea???? Just coz i don’t agree with him doesn’t make him an idiot…. maybe he knows more than me i don’t know maybe he doesn’t but ffs he’s entitled to his/her opinion without personal insults that in a nutshell is why i’m here and will remain so … really have you read the latest crap from Mack & Yassox ?????

  278. theendisnighnot says:

    Brownbess with all due respect you miss the point the fact that we can disagree makes us stronger not weaker think about it the warmists agree on everything doesn’t that tell you something? It’s a fucking religion!!!!! all faith no facts…… whereas us shabby lot can disagree on all sorts of shit but but but we still know we’re being conned on this AGW scam

  279. Edward. says:

    theendisnighnot says:
    June 30, 2010 at 12:50 am
    Pointy is a good lad.
    And an enigma, I like it like that.
    You are right about the dumb name calling but others would argue, what’s in a name? -Me? – I do not have time for that although some of the abstruse and elliptical ’round the houses’ facile debate on behalf of some alarmists does merit a bit of chiding/bollocking, ’cause it grates, all of them bloody civil servants working for either the Met Office or Defra/ DE+CC/quangos too many to mention – (sigh).
    I first began to come across this type of jargon, weasel speak, verbose clutter in the 80’s, the main point is never addressed, it eventually degenerates into a mess of words accusations and hot air bandied to and fro.
    This type of badinage in the administration of government, results in a log jam of paperwork, committee meetings, bureaucratic ‘dead batting’ – the upshot being, nothing ever gets done in government departments
    Britain ran an empire with less civil servants than we have today WITH computers and all.
    Of course there are some good uns but they seem to be snowed in covering for their colleagues blogging on JDs site (grin).
    The same tactics are used in the AGW debate, you can see the ‘foot prints’ of BS merchants all over GEs blog, to me it is another manifestation of post normal science.
    In the end we are blinded by Bullshit science and empirical pure science and the debate thereof is stifled or even shut down.
    An example is Izen’s constant referrals to statistical analyses, stats? Another political tool, science is all about proof, kids of today don’t do proof and scientific testing and analysis, it is a case of get a few figures, design the algorithms and stick it in a computer model, bullshit in, bullshit out.
    I would have it as before, a fairly studious though at times light hearted analysis (by all sorts of people) of the latest crap from the IPCC/CRU/Met office/GISS/BBC etc, all in all much more preferable (and it was having an effect!).


  280. Amanda says:

    Hey gang! Over on James’s Daily Tenenaff blog we’re comparing him with Che Guevara. Come and join the fun.

  281. theendisnighnot says:

    Ed…. totally concurr just can’t get my head around “keyboard warriors” accusing people like Ducky who i don’t agree with a thing he says of being a paedophile ffs he’;s entitled to his opinion …. he’s told by the double act of disrespecting our armed forces amongst other things well i have two nephews out there fighting for Queen and country and can’t think of once he’s actually said any shit about that he just talks of beak oil and military spending well if i’m honest i want my nephews back home i don’t give a flying fuck about Afganistan or any war i just want my brothers kids to be safe and alive. Maybe he has a point maybe he doesn’;t but he surely doesn’t need to be called a paedo by a couple of sad keyboard warriors who are probably the same person

  282. Pointman says:

    theendisnighnot June 30, 2010 at 12:41 am

    I have to agree on your take on JD’s blog these days – it’s just a shouting match with the paginated comments rendering any running debate impossible or impossibly labourious to follow. There just doesn’t seem to be any real content.

    Don’t get me wrong, I like the trolls there to pump up the entertainment factor for the lurkers but without any underlying content, the chances of persuating the neutral parties on the AGW issue are slim.


    theendisnighnot June 30, 2010 at 12:50 am – Ta mate

  283. msher says:


    Sorry, I’m not sure what point you’re making in connection to me. You might have noticed that I am on your side about tone and pointlessness of hurling invective at trolls.

    I said I wouldn’t post again about tone: this isn’t about tone, exactly, or if it is, it’s raising a different question: Most people seem to react so much to the warmist/troll material. Why?

    Troll/warmist material is sometimes repetitive and not worth reading, sometimes clearly abusive, sometimes interesting.

    Let’s take Duckham, for example. The first 10 times he wrote about peak oil my reaction was: OK interesting, I know very little about this, I see his argument, let’s see what the knowledgeable people on this blog have to say and I can learn something about oil supplies. After the first ten times, it’s just: OK, repetitive, scroll past.

    Theepilogue, on the other hand, fits into a different category: he has given me the opportunity to write material and test it against his critique. He isn’t inept and I appreciate the opportunity to test material. If you know your material and have it really thought out, it should withstand critique or onslaught from the opposition. If they expose any chinks – so much the better. That informs you that you need to change your belief or find better arguments.

    That is the process by which legal briefs are written and courts make decisions. People kept asking me why I was trying to convince theepilogue, or other warmists I engaged with. Here’s what wasn’t understood: I have never been trying to convince them; I have sought their assistance in making my own position better.

    I asked izen the other day where exactly recent temperatures are warmer to yield the highest “global temperature” on record. I had to be prepared for an answer I might not like. And indeed, Izen and ozboy gave me maps I don’t like. So I had better figure out how to deal with those maps. (I have, but still am not quite ready to write it.) That’s how putting together a legal case works: you’d better know everything the other side can bring and you’d better know what to do about it.

    Other troll posts are indeed sometimes clearly just plain abuse. In terms of that stuff, maybe I’m weird. But it doesn’t bother me. It is so easy to scroll past. And if it’s the other side, it doesn’t demean us, it only demeans them. I don’t understand why so many people are so upset about troll/warmist posts. It is “our being upset” that they feed off of.

    Re James as “public school twat.” I’m not British, so I don’t know everything conjured up by that label. But I see something a little different. James’ chosen style is bad-boy, angry rebel. There is, of course, an inherent contradiction when 1) you are a Conservative, 1) who sends his kid to a Church of England school, and 3) are proud of your school boy association with the current prime minister. I didn’t understand how someone of such description would chose such a style, but brownbess’ description of James’ music journalism might explain it.


    What has happened to Rastech and his blog? Is it still going? (I have lost the URL, and when I last looked at it a while ago, I didn’t understand how to use it.)

  284. theendisnighnot says:

    I may well be wrong (probably) but as far as i’ concerned this is the place to be not that sycophantic piece of shite at the DT where you need to bow down to some jumped up no mark who is only famuous coz of you guys. I strikes me just like the warmists you stay there your just appealing to authority of your “GE” Get over yourselves ffs lifes brilliant. And don’t forget he’s only famous coz of you guys not by himself without you lot he’d be nought but maybe a Tory MP in a safe seat

  285. ScouseBilly says:

    theendisnighnot says: June 30, 2010 at 1:25 am

    Yep, I’ve had my own run ins with Mack and Yaossx.
    When I first came across JD’s blog I thought, being the Torygraph, I should just accept that I’d be sharing space with right wing islamophobics, even downright racists. However, the common cause (anti-AGW BS) was more important.
    Btw I’m neither left nor right leaning, libertarianism and personal responsibility is my thing.

    I’m not sure that Mack’s current Israeli flag avatar is wise considering the DT is the best hope for getting neutral readers on board but that’s my opinion.
    Hi Ho….

  286. Pointman says:

    With regard to the ‘speculation’ on Ozboy’s motivation in providing this forum, don’t sniff around it – spit it out. Personally, if you feel being or posting here is somehow disloyal to James, then what are you doing here? I’m not a conscript in anyone’s army – I’ll make my own choices, thank you.

    While I concede his utility value, I’ve always know he wasn’t going to grow into something bigger than a blogger. We’ve all seen him perform before the media and he’s a weak public speaker and frankly just not televisual. He was never going to lead the crusade out of the blogosphere. If there’s one thing we lack, it’s a bloody good representative, someone with charisma and political nous. That Virgina AG may be a possible though.


  287. Walt O'Brien says:


    As a matter of fact, I would like to take a poke at the freelance contract job market in Oz or Tassie, in all seriousness. Seems a far more vigorous environment for do’er’s than here in a lot of respects, and I cannot even imagine a referendum on anything ever happening in the States, which is why we are in the jam we are now with the Reds at the helm.

    If you could let me know, I would appreciate it greatly. I’ve made boodles of swag for my employers as well as for myself with my numbers-crunching over the past thirty-odd years and wouldn’t mind doing it for an Oz firm one bit. Please let me know of the main office for sourcing foreign workers of my type, if it still exists; I know there used to be one to address specific labour shortages, just as Canada has one with their Citizenship and Immigration office.

    I would be delighted to be a trainer, also. The tragedy of aging is that there is so little trade between those who know (us old methane emissions) and those who need (the young, strong and happily brainless LOL!). It’s time for this grey monkey to teach the nimbler ones the finer points of stealing bananas, methinks.

  288. theendisnighnot says:

    Msher… good points wel lmade i wasn’t having a go at you just don’t get this defense of the indefensible i.e. JD’s attack on people who had supported him through thick and thin………… but have to say will never understand the attacks on whoever you describe as “trolls” what actually does that acheive?. I was always taught either ignore them or damm them with faint praise (Shakespeare) And anyway why shouldn’t Ozboy have a blog he had one well before all this shite and personally i’m happier here its just so much better than that bollucks at the DT….. anyway keep well and healthy life is brilliant

  289. Amanda says:


    What made you think that Tories are racists? Good grief, I’m as Tory as they come except for class, wealth and fox-hunting, and I am a socially tolerant Lockean liberal and a free-marketer. I judge people by the same standards with which I would be judged. And I am hardly alone in that.

  290. Amanda says:

    Pointman sez and frankly just not televisual


  291. Walt O'Brien says:

    Pointman says:
    June 30, 2010 at 2:25 am

    Greetings. As far as promotion goes, I am wondering if we ought not to start poking around on the Net for like-minded blogs and generate some cross-traffic outside of linkage to the Delirium Tremens.

    I’m with you on the DT front. If the DT is willing to pony up 5 or 10p per word to each of us, well and good, I’ll be there. We generate the ad-clicks, after all, right? Fair’s fair.

    Every artful dodger presumably with a cause is out to freeload free labour without providing compensating benefit. I never liked that aspect of today’s horribly misnomered charities, much less in a commercial operation which exists strictly for profit. BTW, Pointman, I shall be doing some explorations directly on placement on various works commencing the week after next in earnest. Thanks for the go-ahead with the manuscript. I shall keep you apprised, as with Noidea.

  292. ScouseBilly says:

    Amanda says: June 30, 2010 at 2:28 am

    I said Torygraph, Amanda. It’s a common (mis)perception that DT readers are well to do people from the shires that buy into anti-muslim, anti-brown people from the colonies guff. I can happily say that with one or two exceptions everyone I’ve engaged with is pretty rounded and above the propoganda bullshit, even you ;).

  293. msher says:


    Re Duckham and Afghanistan: I don’t know whether you have seen his posts on Islam. We all had some robust discussions about Islam, Islam in the West and Afghanistan last year. (Discussions left behind, probably for the best, when the blog got seriously focused on AGW.) I think he thinks we are terrorists in Afghanistan, as opposed to Taliban who are just….? I don’t remember what Duckham says their noble purpose was.

    Possibly the paedophile reference came from those interactions, and the posters who used the reference were thinking derogatory references that are sometimes made to a certain prophet. I found the references startling and wondered where they came from. This is what I ended up concluding.

  294. theendisnighnot says:

    ScouseBilly….. anyway thought Stevie G was about the only one who performed to be honest……. loved Liverpool back in Shankly’s days now was that a Manager!!!!!!! What do you reckon Shanks would have made of this AGW shite would have been great to hear him opinioning on it…….. take no notice of the Mack/Yassoxx double act and as for his Isralie flag well he/she needs to get in the real world just keyboard warriors the pair/one of them probably never been further than Dover and worship their GE like theres no tommorow different circumstances they’d probably be worshipping the Moonbat. Ok La

  295. Amanda says:

    Just reading up the blog before I go off to The Burger Basket for an outdoor fantastic burger before tonight’s nirvana from Herb’s Pit Bar-B-Que. Never mind the views; it’s the eating I like best.

    Anyway, you lot are talking seriously still (with Msher and endisnighnot leading the way) about James’s blogging. And then there’s my post about Che Guevara. And the fact is (not that any of y’all should care), I’m just not taking James’s blog seriously any more. Hence the character of my occasional posts there (less occasional on this thread as I’ve been having a jolly good laugh). But that’s my point: I’m only really interested in a jolly good laugh now. I used to be more seriously inclined. Part of that’s just AGW fatigue, which would have happened anyway, and part of it is the death-blow delivered by the new format. Now it’s just a chat-room to me. Perhaps I should stay off and do James a favour. Anyway, it’s just not the same and I truly prefer this blog now as a place for chat, ideas, enjoyment.

  296. Pointman says:

    @Amanda June 30, 2010 at 2:30 am

    Did you see how he was dressed on the Andrew Neil show with Monbiot? Eekkk.


  297. Pointman says:

    Walt O’Brien June 30, 2010 at 2:32 am

    I’ve been thinking along similar lines and am putting my thoughts down as a kickoff paper for a discussion by you all.


  298. ScouseBilly says:

    theendisnighnot says: June 30, 2010 at 2:40 am

    Agreed. I feel sorry for Stevie G so much for the usual hype re “our best player”, half-man half-pit bull. Can’t understand why Crouch didn’t feature either.

    Re Shanks, now you’re talking: imagine him one on one with Moonbat. Now he was “televisual”. Having said that the best manager for me was Paisley. The most understated, wonderful reader of the game I’ve ever come across. He didn’t need to set-up his formation and dish out advice. He put together the individuals needed and told them to go and work it out for themselves and didn’t they just….. 🙂

  299. theendisnighnot says:

    Msher…. exactly my point i really care not a jot about what Ducky thinks but still think he has the right to say it my brothers boys are in Afganistan and frankly idiots like them pair on the DT blog do them no favours i have never ever heard Ducky say anything other than he doesn’t beleive in militay spending so how come those pair accuse him of mutilating young girls genatalia? Do you really think every Muslim in the world wants to circumcise their daughters? NO they don’t get out more meet people most of them are like us and most of them aren’t like those pair of morons. As far as i’m concerned Duckham makes “some” points that make a little sense and lots that don’t but whatever he’s entitled to his opinion whithout the shit he gets. As I said earlier my recollection is this abuse was a precurser to what followed on the DT and look what happened?

  300. theendisnighnot says:

    ScouseBilly……know what your saying but just can never forget Shanks I’ve been a Villa fan all my life but that man when i was a kid and being allowed to watch MOTD was just so special i guess coz i’m from Scotland and like Jock Stein (even though i’m a Ger) just special special people my dads folk were from the pits in Lanarkshire may have something to do with it…… anyway please please will you buy James Millner for 20 million quid!!! Amanda I’m relishing this blog also big up to Ozboy for hosting us i say

  301. ScouseBilly says:

    P.S. Looks like Roy Hodgson will be the new Liverpool manager.
    I’m very happy about that but feel sorry for the Fulham fans.

  302. Pointman says:

    Just watched Japan leave the World Cup. A pity. Worth a blast from the distant past.


  303. theendisnighnot says:

    You can have Millner for 30 mill now LOL top manager Hodgson proper bloke what Liverpool need imo all these fancy dan managers just don’t get Liverpool and what it means. Sounds silly i know but to the rest of us Liverpool is Shanks and the Beatles proper town full of proper people…..

  304. ScouseBilly says:

    Milner £20m? 😉

    Man City, maybe but Liverpool need to get DIC in for £500m which is rumoured to be on again. Meanwhile Real’s special agent (Camarero Gordo) has a new assignment – to ruin the new European Champions, Internazionale 😉

    Those were the days: Shanks, Big Jock, Sir Matt, Big Mouth, Fedora sporting Mal, the Doc and Joe Mercer. There must have been something in the water in the 70’s. The tennis players were characters and don’t get me started on snooker, save to say Alex was and still is my hero 🙂

  305. msher says:

    pointman, amanda, theendisnightnot

    I have always been an avowed fighter to defeat the AGW agenda. That has been my first and last purpose and focus. As a result, I see everything through the filter of: what is useful in that fight and what isn’t. I have absolutely no stake in James, except my assessment of him as a widely disseminated and often effective blogger who was one of a few who derailed Copenhagen. James is still widely disseminated and if big news happens again, I hope he will write effectively about it. I have explored my discomfort with this blog, and it boils down – as I thought it would – to something easily avoided: the degree of venom directed back at James. Whatever his shortcomings – and you have seen , I have been vocal about those which I perceive, he is still a widely disseminated voice in this fight I want to win. Don’t we all want to win it? No reason to try to destroy James’ blog if we want it to be useful in the future. Doesn’t everyone want every possible weapon against the AGW agenda to be available and effective?

    As amanda said, ‘nough about James’ blog. I need to go watch the shambles of the stock market and my portfolio. I have tried to figure out whether I am invested in anything “green.” I’ve told the advisers no “green.” But if you buy mutual funds (funds that hold stocks or bonds of many companies), it’s too time consuming to figure out what is in each fund. The best you can do is say: “stay away from funds in the green or alternative energy sectors.” But what does one call GE or Siemans these days?

    Is Exxon, at its 52-week low, a buy? Yesterday they were talking about exposure to chaos in Europe, but if, as they said, demand is back up to pre-recession levels (Hello China, India and Brazil, I think.), does Europe matter to an oil company? Can China get enough from Sudan and Iran, etc. to supply the demand?

    Incidentally, I saw a poll on the news yesterday where only 9% of Americans thought the Gulf oil spill was at the top of America’s problems. Does that show common sense, or is the public insufficiently informed?

  306. theendisnighnot says:

    Msher personally wouldn’t be so fast getting out of “green” funds purely from a selfish point of view theres lots going on ex cap n trade that makes them a good investment its just so funny in countries like where i am (China) its a huge short term opportunity and i will be mostly making a fortune out of these suckers over the next few years LOL

    As for JD’s blog unfortunately for me its old hat now the guys lost the plot am sure he’ll continue with his bitchfight with Moonbat yawn how boring. If i want science its WUWT if i want good chat and rationale people its here. Take care and love life xx

  307. Walt O'Brien says:

    Pointman says:
    June 30, 2010 at 2:51 am

    This is good, Pointman. I very much look forward to seeing it. We’ve a nice product here, and it ought to be “out there” for others.

    The situation is that there is a dearth of content on the market to the extent that literary agents weep over the drought prevailing of proper intellectual properties to market now. All they get is college-level (which once was high school-level) Trotskyite epics about the trials and travails of pick-your-oppressed-minority-group victimology or Tom Clancy Boy’s Own style wankathons for tekkie woman-haters. The non-fiction market is even more idiotologized. First past the post with something flexing intellectually rigorous muscles stands to do quite well, both in terms of influence and of revenues.

  308. theendisnighnot says:

    WaLT Pointman can i do the screenplay……. this time next year we”ll all be millionaires

  309. Pointman says:

    @theendisnighnot June 30, 2010 at 3:47 am

    Do the screenplay? You can star in it mate. Which part do you want to read for?


  310. Pointman says:

    @Walt O’Brien June 30, 2010 at 3:44 am

    Well, if it’s saleable, I have some anti AGW ideas the money could be used for. Brushing the dust of the MS (it was written a long time ago) made me think about starting another work of fiction with a very definate propaganda slant …


  311. theendisnighnot says:

    Pointman…… no need to read for a part you choose i can turn my hand to most anything I have the body of an adonis and the brain the size of a planet and am incredibly modest to boot!

    Not only that, you’ve just posted LibertyGibbert’s two thousandth comment—congratulations :mrgreen:

    Thanks everyone for your support!


  312. theendisnighnot says:

    Wheres NoIdea?

  313. Walt O'Brien says:

    Pointman says:
    June 30, 2010 at 3:56 am

    I think the working model we are looking at is similar to the old Russian Kukrinitsky, which was a satirical group of artists who worked for Stalin while doing the Shostakovich/Pasternak/Aksyonov bit. What formulates the effective structure is the nature of the working relationship between conjoined workers on projects.

    Guess what I am doing is asking “How do we structure the books?” No sense in beating around the bush on a key, if not THE key, item in question. We know we can do the work. It’s how we distribute revenues without it turning into a sequel to “The Treasure of Sierra Madre.” (I get to design the badges :>).

  314. Pointman says:

    You could have a go at Krupmeyer. Might have to beef up the old bod a bit but the Adonis thing is working against you for that particular part. In my mind’s eye, he’s not the handsomest of men. Think of the XL version of ‘Hoss’ Cartwright but with brains. Your handle works a bit in your favour though …


  315. theendisnighnot says:

    Pointman/Walt go to go now i know i know but its 2.05 in the morning i’ll catch you in the morrow

  316. Walt O'Brien says:

    Off topic, but what are the secrets the Russians are supposed to have stolen from the USA using their cunning and nefarious intelligence services this time, please? Probably the secret to making bad music videos which make bizarre amounts of money for no earthly reason (hint: it’s called “neo-Trotskyite state subsidies” paid to the present incarnation of the American nickelodeon business under the guise of export trade development, worker re-training and industrial technology upgrades research grants). Why USA movie CGI has taken off in the States owes entirely to entertainment muscling their way to the head of the line for software R & D grants LOL!

    Wish people would just be honest and say America has always officially hated Russia because they are an Orthodox country and we still have the Book of Revelations on the radar screen. It is not much trickier than that. All national enmities are based on religious differences going back to Day One, Cthulhu’s birthday.

  317. Amanda says:


    I never understood the dip-down thing on the left jacket lapel? What’s it for? It makes it look as if his tailor couldn’t cut straight.

  318. Amanda says:

    Correction: My first sentence above shouldn’t have a question mark. I don’t talk in a sing-song, and anyway it’s a statement not a question.

  319. Amanda says:

    My first sentence above shouldn’t have a question mark. I don’t talk in a sing-song, and anyway it’s a statement not a question.

  320. Amanda says:

    Sorry, WordPress ‘detected’ a ‘duplicate’ comment but I didn’t see a single one.

  321. amandastarspangled says:


    Ah—we have a face to put to the name – Oz 😀

  322. Pointman says:

    @Amanda June 30, 2010 at 4:39 am
    ‘Correction: My first sentence above shouldn’t have a question mark. I don’t talk in a sing-song, and anyway it’s a statement not a question.’

    You probably have a laten talent for speaking Spanish. In Spanish, a question is usually framed the same way as a statement except the inflection rises towards the end of the question. ie

    A statement – My first sentence above shouldn’t have a question mark.
    A question – ¿My first sentence above shouldn’t have a question mark?

    The upside down question mark gives the speaker warning to take a breath, start low and prepare to finish high!


    ps. I’ve no idea why tailors do that either.

  323. crownarmourer says:

    Ah—we have a face to put to the name – Oz

    But is it The Amanda or just an Amanda.

    My super powers tell me it’s our Mandy – but testing with another e-mail – Oz

  324. crownarmourer says:


    That one got held up for moderation… don’t know why – Oz

  325. crownarmourer says:

    ozboy not an issue was trying to see why my piccy is blocked.

  326. crownarmourer says:

    Walt I think the concentrating on the Russians is displacement activity as the CIA/FBI are probably banned from trying to catch terrorists.

  327. Pointman says:

    @Walt/Crown – If the FBI were all over them for ten years without being spotted then it either speaks volumes for the FBI’s improvement from stepping on peoples’ heels style of surveillance or how inept a bunch the spies were.

    Interesting too that their target was policy making rather than military.


  328. crownarmourer says:

    msher….were thinking derogatory references that are sometimes made to a certain prophet.
    Well not derogatory if they are based on fact Aisha was 6 or 7 when he married her and 9 when he consummated the marriage he was about 50. So by todays standards he is a very bad man and this still goes on in Saudi today.

  329. crownarmourer says:

    pointman I hope there intention wasn’t to blackmail politicians because everyone knows the Dems are up to stuff anyhow so that provides little leverage.

  330. Pointman says:

    Crown. Anyone who’s been rubbing shoulders with these people in the last decade finally have an explanation of why their careers in government and Washington have somehow failed to advance. There are always casulties. Ho hum …


  331. Pointman says:

    ‘Climategate’ jibes fly over El Niño impact on warming

    But de Freitas says there are “Climategate-style shenanigans” going on, and that Foster’s paper is an “attempt to discredit work that challenges alarmism”.


    The CRU Team getting back to business as usual.


  332. Amanda says:

    Ozboy you are correct, but does it show if I use my usual one?

  333. Amanda says:

    I think I just want bumpfing right. Bumpf-bumpf. There, that should do it.

  334. Amanda says:

    just wasn’t not ‘want’. Obviously time for a G&T. I tell ya, it’s a hard life goofing off in the mountains!

  335. Amanda says:

    Well, now that you’ve seen it, I think I’ll take it down now. It gets a bit repetitive, doesn’t it? Reminds me of an apartment in New York I rented once. The owner name (a woman) was a Ms Green. The whole place was a mirror to her: apart from regular mirrors and mirrored switch plates everywhere, she had photos of herself at various ages on the wall, and her living room was not coincidentally… dark green. The vanity was overwhelming. I’d hate to be looking at myself every time I turned around.

  336. Amanda says:

    On the other hand, I can never get enough of this darling angel.

  337. crownarmourer says:

    Amanda sounds like the landlady was a narcissist. Or maybe she was trying to reassure herself she existed maybe if she didn’t she would cease to exist.

  338. Walt O'Brien says:

    theendisnighnot says:
    June 30, 2010 at 4:03 am

    Noidea will be back on station shortly, methinks. He has a real life and actually takes vacations, not like us galley oarsmen chained to the Ship of Fools :>(

    Crownarmourer, IMHO, the Russians are attempting to sort out how to avoid what has happened to us Yanks, who since Carter have gone from being a significant world class blockbuster to just another bankrupt cloud of methane in a tin can. I also think the Russians’ researches are less intrusive and destructive than Arsebook and Microturds and many, many other private concerns who routinely run rings around the law and operate their own bullying fiefdoms with a greater degree of individual bullyism than ever the Stasi could bring to bear. If you don’t believe that statement, I challenge you to get a mistake on your credit report corrected. At least (5) American Christian religious denominations track your every move if you have a degree and a credit rating that I know of and they are perfectly open about it. Sears knows more about you than the Stasi ever knew about individual East Germans. Russians are confused. So am I LOL!

    It is also displacement of antagonism the investigative services wish to vent on the present regime. If it were 1972, I would think this is happening because the CID, DIA, A4, USMC C/I, the FBI and NSA and every other working agency are attempting to sort out if in fact the present US regime is on the Red’s payroll LOL! Nothing that is happening today points to anything else. Why the hell would Obama’s hirelings effectively shut down the entire industrial infrastructure of the United States of America as they have since elected? As an example, NO ONE in their right mind would think of financing a power plant of any kind on a major scale until after January 2011 (which could be pushed back to January 2012) until all this carbon crap is sorted out. America’s power plant construction industry is shut down by the EPA. Period. Full stop. Domestic oil exploration, offshore and otherwise, and natural gas exploration, offshore and otherwise, is shut down. Period. Full stop. American industrial exports are shut down through not imposing associated countervailing tariffs against WTO regulation offenders dumping onto the US market. Wait unitl you see the change in medical insurance rates in 2011. Wait until you see your tax bill in 2011.

    The Russians are conducting the research they are conducting on such a fine-tuned drilldown level with such a large deployment of resources and talent because they cannot believe we Americans are allowing the current Federal regime and their champagen Communist lackeys to throw away our heritage and power and educational system and de facto sovereignty with such blithe abandon.

    As I see it, there may be a “Red Dawn” scenario coming into play, but with Russia and Red China saving the US citizen from the present USA regime. I wouldn’t mind fighting alongside Speznast or Black Sea Marines against Communists to preserve my homeland. I’ll bring the vodka, the salt, the bread and the 13 roses. White ones.

    I also seriously think the Russians are also baffled as to how our economy can function at all now, and the answer is, it probably won’t for much longer, as Wave Two looks about to hit the beaches and the sons of beaches. If it is a scenario like what prevailed when I was a C/I snuffie, our services will sit down over beers and vodka with theirs and trade notes, then approach our respective governments and tell them what needs to be done. Usually arrest roundups like this are covers for intelligence trade conferencing, and has been since Day One when Rahab got together with the Izzies about preserving and renewing her licence to trick under the new management in town.

    Now if only I could figure out how to throw a sharpened entrenching tool…

  339. Edward. says:

    Pointman says:
    June 30, 2010 at 7:14 am
    Good evening/mornin’/afternoon, pointy,

    The understatement is an admission in itself, methinks even a partial admission is a victory.
    “They say El Niño only explains 15 to 30 per cent of recent warming.”

    ‘Recent warming’ is still background, there is still no evidence of MM runaway world temperatures and they know it damn well, all the alarmist espousal of MM CO2 e bringing about cataclysm is not proven, Gaia is not playing ball.

    SSTs have been mainly ignored by alarmists, Hansen this year spouting the ”warmest year on record” nicely misses the fact that it is an El nino event mainly responsible (again remember 1998?) and scandalously ignored the fact that the majority of the Northern hemisphere had a bitterly cold winter – or did James H not notice?…..Nah it don’t fit the narrative! LOL.
    Here is another bit of evidence to the contrary, in WUWT:-

    The ice in the South is racing ahead…………. so warm year Hansen? FFS!
    Now with La nina in the ascendancy we’ll see how the world T record dips, will it be mentioned by Hansen? I rather doubt it.


  340. Edward. says:


    Pertinent to what I was ratting on about, there is this in Chiefios musings:
    Don’t want to be a harbinger of doom but we are on the cusp of a quite severe downturn and AGW will forever be on the scrapheap of world wide scares, it is cold we now have to be aware of!
    Time for a kip,


  341. rastech says:


    Been away basically redesigning the heating and insulation of the local pub landlords house rebuild for him. He almost got badly scammed with a heatpump purchase, which would have left him and his missus cold and miserable half way up the Preselli Mountains.

    Hopefully catch you all some time tomorrow.

  342. rastech says:

    Before I go Ed, did you see that piece I found about the Lion’s Mane jellyfish that’s around the coast, because the seawater is so cold after the winter, they have moved south?

    So much for hottest this that or the other this year – just hot air being generated by pratts!

  343. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Rastech, Ed….

    I listen to Sydney radio streaming on the Net, and today is the COLDEST June day for 61 YEARS. It hit 4 degs Celsius downtown, with the western suburbs at Minus 4-5.

    These temps are TEN degrees Celsius BELOW average.

    Here in Tas it’s just bloody cold and what is usually just a “cold-snap” blowing in for a few days, has set-in for weeks.

    These temps are all over southern Oz and so out-of-the-ordinary that it seems the weather is everyone’s only topic of conversation.

    Usual comment: “Global warming be buggered”. Looks like the solar cycle will knock this AGW crap on the head with no help from us at all .. LOL

  344. Pointman says:

    Night Ed, that Chiefos site looks interesting. I’ll have a read.


  345. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Looks like you and Mr A will have to make your Tas idea just a holiday. Our animal quarantine laws (ie. we have no rabies) mean your liddle doggy darlin’ would have to spend months in a quarantine kennel/cage/canine penitentiary for many months.

    We only have three of them, Sydney, Melbourne & Perth so your visiting privileges to the Big House, er Kennel, would be seriously restricted.

    Bit worried about you two going to the Gulf Coast and all those toxic gas plumes drifting off the escaping oil. Folks have already complained of serious illness from those gases. Tell Mr A to put a danger-money hazards clause in his contract and you guys just wear breathing apparatus.


  346. Amanda says:

    ‘your liddle doggy darlin’ would have to spend months in a quarantine kennel/cage/canine penitentiary for many months’.

    Are you kidding? They don’t even do that in G. B. any more. Mr A says
    ‘Fuggedaboutit. I’d rather live in Elizabeth, New Jersey’. To give you an idea, Elizabeth is the home of smokestacks, the New Jersey Turnpike, and Ikea (though I do dig the meatballs and lingonberry sauce).

    Otherwise, Mr A has been telling me just tonight that he’d like to pack his bags and go.

  347. Amanda says:

    P. S. to Blackswan,

    If we need any kind of breathing apparatus, we won’t be staying long on the Gulf Coast. What a shame. I love the sunsets there, and the pelicans cruising over the water like bombers….

  348. Blackswan Tasmania says:


    Sorry to say, it’s all true. This country is unique in many ways, no foot’n’mouth, no mad cow, no rabies on and on it goes. When your plane comes in to land, some bugger will walk down the aisle and spray you all with some unknown disinfectant – or they used to, haven’t been out of the country for 20 years. We have strict animal/plant quarantine for Tassie alone. When we say clean/green environment (pardon the profanity), it’s really true.

    But it won’t be for long. Under UN/WTO directives, our rules are slowly being broken down to allow contaminated imports that have been banned for so long.

    You know the WTO Amanda, “Do as you are told or we’ll destroy you” policies.

    Still, holidays are good – but don’t bring any honey with you, it’s banned LOL
    We don’t have the bacterium/virus? that’s destroying bees elsewhere. So it’s not all bad.


  349. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    I always say our pelicans (big black & white ones) are like B52s.
    When my IT savvy cygnet comes over (she’s got ‘flu) to show me how to work Oz’s Facebook thingy, I’ll post some photos of “my” river, its sunsets and hopefully some of its inhabitants.

  350. Walt O'Brien says:

    Walt O’Brien says:
    June 30, 2010 at 9:18 am

    Thought the irony might get a rise out of someone, but in any event, like the “Mossad hit” of some months ago, the Russian routine is just another “up the flagpole and see if it catches the wind” marketing p*ssology experiment to quantify the gullibility of the masses and to crank up the fear factor to sell more papers, ads, and bandwidth.

    Never heard what happened to the captured Israeli spies who looked and sounded less Jewish than Jehovah’s Sicknesses and conducted their “attack” like Baptist teenagers taking their SATs.

    Wonder if these “Russians” used spy whistles and decoder rings they got out of a cereal box.

    rastech says:
    June 30, 2010 at 9:52 am

    Sounds like an interesting project. Funny how heat pumps don’t seem to work so well when you don’t have a temperature differential to exploit LOL! There are lots of clients you cannot tell anything to anymore though, especially if you have P. Eng. type credentials, as then you become “The Man” so everything you say makes you a shill for the utilities and the Big Oil people, thanks to the press convincing them that the lastest and the greatest New Idea in En-Jer-Nee can be installed anywhere regardless of prevailing conditions. We had a city council person who wanted to mounted wind towers on the downtown skyscrapers where the communications towers were mounted; it took six months of infighting to disabuse the fellow of the notion. This being NY, I don’t think that convinced him either; someone probably came up to him and said, “Drop it or we kill you,” so he shrugged and said, “Okay.” Budda bing budda boom.

  351. Walt O'Brien says:

    “mounted” should be “mount.” Aaaagh! I’m becoming more retarded because of the intergalactic force of InterNet retardo death rays!!!

  352. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    G’day Walt,

    Rooftop wind turbines are a done-deal for Hobart with our Green dominated Govt & Bureaucracy.

    This link from 12 months ago……………..

    …………………has since seen the contraptions “modified” and is now all a-go-go.

    Dontcha luv ’em? All this in our historic waterfront precinct.

  353. crownarmourer says:

    Blackswan we are experiencing some weird weather here in the USA, colder than normal in the Western half of the country is colder than normal and the Eastern half is suffering from a heat wave which has now moved across the Atlantic to the UK. Odd but probably within normal variation. A bitterly cold winter is usually followed by a hot summer.

  354. crownarmourer says:

    Been busy on the DT blogs accusing Damien T of heresy and being way too liberal and posting on the Twilight blog. Did you know if click on your avatar it gives you a score card on your use.

  355. msher says:

    Black Swan

    I don’t know whether you liked my white and black swan ballerinas, but in case you did: I didn’t have the video of the ballerina who I consider the best ever black swan. I since found it. (Same dancer as the white swan I posted. I don’t know whether you know the ballet Swan Lake. The same dancer dances the good, pure white swan and the evil, seductive black swan.)

    Most people have no interest in ballet, and you probably don’t yourself. But I post this in honor of your black swans. (Incidentally the ballet has a part called the 4 cygnets, where four ballerinas dance arm in arm for an extended period, keeping precisely in step and not tripping each other. As they are dancing pretty fast, with a lot of leg movement, that’s a pretty good feat.)

  356. crownarmourer says:

    msher Rahm Emanuel was a ballet dancer.

  357. Walt O'Brien says:


    That’s 10 megawatts/month. They are dreaming. On the upside, it means some happy genset contractor has an order now for about 100 KWe of natural gas fired onsite recip or mini gas turbine genset to cover actual deliverable load requirements, plus THAT thermal sourced power generation will get carbon offsets, too for full nameplate capacity LOL!

    All sorts of fiddles and grafts, ANYTHING BUT WORK to cover the national debts no one is really serious about paying down, if they can altogether avoid it. I don’t know why they bothered at all with the G8/G20. No one is going to pay off their debts is they can foist it onto anyone else. It is as plain as my large proboscis in the middle of my mug. We’re nicey-wicey greentards so we don’t have to pay our bills, the evil oil companies and those sweaty smelly people with manual jobs have to, nyah nyah nyah.

    Crownmeister, Cthulhu must hate me, when I click on my avatar, I get bupkis. Am I saying the wrong prayers or what?

  358. crownarmourer says:

    msher if a ballerina dies on stage performing swan lake in the UK does the monarchy get first dibs?

  359. msher says:


    I always want to say that’s hard to believe, but it isn’t. He sort of looks like many ballet dancers. I haven’t had opportunity to see him move, so I don’t know whether he moves like one.

    I don’t really like ballet as a man’s medium – except to the extent the man is a fabulous partner for an exquisite ballerina. (I.e., he is background, on stage only to partner the ballerina). The exception is Rudoph Nureyev whom I thought had presence and balance and drama which made him mesmerizing.

    I do realize no one else cares about ballet. I find that in real life too (except in New York, where I no longer live), so don’t mind me if I find any excuse to write about it.

  360. Walt O'Brien says:


    Nice footage, astounding woman. I am partial to Maria Tallchief, who still teaches baby ballerina prancy dandelions in NYC. She is one of the very few native born female American classical dancers, she and Anne Reinking, who have ever been competitive on an international basis. Gorgeous woman, epically strong and fluidly graceful.

  361. Walt O'Brien says:

    crownarmourer says:
    June 30, 2010 at 3:44 pm

    Who’s the character in Viz who does the double entendres? You’re just in the States to flee all the pun and double entendre ASBO’s you’ve accumulated, I can tell.

  362. crownarmourer says:

    msher I pilloried ballet as an art form to my wife unfortunately she learned that as a child, I now stand corrected or else.
    Not my cup of tea but do enjoy listening to a good orchestra and was always fond of the last night of the proms one of the few times my country gets nationalistic and the audience usually includes many commonwealth countries waving their respective flags to Rule Brittania, Land of Hope and Glory or Jerusalem.

  363. msher says:


    Re whether the queen has dibs: There are parts of the ballet where the ballerina is a swan and parts where she is human. I guess it depends on which part of the ballet the ballerina dies during.

    But let me throw a monkey wrench into your speculation on this subject. The ballet is Russian, but from heavily German origins. The two male characters are named Siegfried and von Rothbart. So I think the place is Germany or eastern Europe. So even if performed in the UK, the swans on stage are in Germany or eastern Europe and don’t belong to the crown, or at least not the British crown. Siegfried has a mother, the queen. I think the swans belong to her.

  364. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Hi Msher,
    Very kind of you to take the trouble. Yes I did see your previous links – most impressive. I wouldn’t have thought “evil, seductive” would apply to a black swan but, come to think of it, I have a few relatives for whom it’s a perfect fit LOL

    Many years ago I worked with a young woman who had been a professional ballet dancer. She had to find an alternate occupation as she was rendered so crippled by “the dance”. A group of us used to sit around the office lunch table where she’d regale us with tales of the torture and pain she and her colleagues suffered.

    Ever after, although never seeing a “live” performance (not my thing), whenever I’ve seen it on movies I couldn’t rid myself of my workmate’s tribulations and always felt sorry for the ballerinas, thinking “the dance” a perfect analogy for all that’s bright and beautiful but hides a world of misery underneath.

    Not for the blokes though, except for sheer athleticism. What sort of sadistic SOB first thought of requiring young women to carry their whole weight on their toe points?

    However it is a beautiful spectacle and thanks very much for sharing with us. When my young Cygnet visits later, I know she’ll enjoy it too.


  365. crownarmourer says:

    Walt the character was Finbar Saunders and his double entendres, and yes the creators of Viz were from my part of the world and we have an evil black sense of humour. Oh the evil jokes that did the rounds after every disaster but oddly enough my compatriots always gave generously to help people in distress more so than a lot of people in the World per head.
    It’s nice to come from an area that knows how to deal with adversity you laugh about it and deal with it because life is never fair but people can help each other when bad stuff happens.

  366. crownarmourer says:

    msher did you know all sturgeon are also considered property of the crown and have to offered to her majesty before anyone else can eat them.
    Although I have never seen sturgeon lake danced on stage as yet.

  367. Walt O'Brien says:

    crownarmourer says:
    June 30, 2010 at 4:19 pm

    Sid the Sexist and Top Tips are my faves as well as Big Vern, which last should be made into a film character not animated but instead using that awfully decent tough guy fellow from Lock Stock and Two Smoking Barrels as Big Vern as he is a Doppelganger for him.

    I’ve a copy from 1997 of the Full Tickle Flash game I play every once in a while to blow off steam. Don’t know why a 16-bit game runs on a 64-bit system but hey, go figure.

    Black Swan, I’ve dated working classical dancers in training for city ballet performances and they are a hoot. They break wind on demand like football players and get charlie horses at the most inconvenient times LOL! They are also the only women I have ever dated whom I could carry in my arms who never said no to all-you-can-eat buffets. You don’t want to see their toes, but on the other hand, they are really big on extended foot massages, which suits me fine, thanks.

    One dancey pookie who stayed over knocked a glass off the sink with her elbow and caught it before it hit the floor. They are pro athletes, just like a football or rugby players, except in time to music, doing everything backwards reliant on a male oaf to break their otherwise inevitable falls to earth LOL!

    My all-time favourite was the episode of Billy The Fish where Billy unknowingly (rubber masks) slept with Shakin’ Stevens the night before the grand final. Do you know that Prince William, as a Navy Pilot, used it as his call sign (William Wales = Billy The Fish geddit?)

    The Tasmanian government website for prospective migrants you asked about (I showed it above to Amanda) is here – Oz

  368. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Hi Walt,

    I reckon if you ever worked in Oz, we’d have to bundle you onto the plane home in a straight-jacket. I’d bet you London to a brick that our bureaucrats and politicians could outdo yours for obfuscation and stupidity. And there’s no recourse.

    With all these “green initiatives” there’s nary a dissenting voice and the juggernaut rolls on.

    Just us old Farts in the ‘burbs who chat amongst ourselves about how we’ll all be rooned.

  369. msher says:

    Black Swan

    Ballet dancing is like the most intense of athletics – but they have to smile and make it look effortless and dainty. Yes, they dance in pain (and anerexoic), but they really, really want it. I used to see many, many of the corps ballerinas around Lincoln Center, going to or leaving practice, and you could see and hear that they loved dancing.

    Pilates got started as an exercise for dancers with strained backs.

    The reason I posted video of Swan Lake is that the only reason I know what cygnets are is from the 4 cygnets in the ballet. For your cygnet, here is my last video: the 4 cygnets.

  370. Walt O'Brien says:

    Ozboy, there are 235 current openings for construction estimators in Oz, about a third of which are for mechanical contractors. You call them ‘quantity surveyors.’


  371. Walt O'Brien says:

    crownarmourer says:
    June 30, 2010 at 4:24 pm

    I suppose it is a good thing playtpus are not Crown property.

    Interesting bit about the tutu is that prior to Greek independence, the tutu was adopted as a statement of solidarity with the forces fighting the Ottoman empire there in the days of Lord Byron. So if you see those silly savages in the Greek Forces doing their bit at the national memorial in Athens in their tutus, if you taunt them by telling them they look like ballerinas, they will come back at you to say, “No, ballerinas dress like us.” Show biz as political statement is nothing new.

    Which reminds me: Happy Pride Day LOL! :>P Imagine a hairy Greek guy doing the black swan in ‘Swan Lake.’ Better yet, don’t.

  372. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    G’day Crown,

    Following your suggestion I popped over to the DT for a squizz just in time to see reference to JD’s death threat email. I back-tracked and found it. Must be very sobering for James, with a young family to consider, to realise how vulnerable he could be when it comes to seriously twisted nutters floating in the blogosphere.

    Reality Returns, despite being JD’s most ardent adherent, seems to have finally had enough after a first and final warning from moderators. RR has been the mainstay on those blogs and if, as they threaten, they’ll delete ALL his posts the archives will deflate to about 20 comments a blog LOL. It’ll be interesting to see the upshot.

    Never mind, his defection will only enhance Libertygibbert.

  373. crownarmourer says:

    Ozboy and Walt funny how Viz traveled the World and gained devoted followers I was a big fan from the early days, I’m also known as Syd aka the sexist not because I’m one but my friends thought it was funny which was better than Hamster (don’t ask but the Richard Gere scenario was involved and I did not own a Hamster) so Syd it was.

  374. Ozboy says:

    @Blackswan on June 30, 2010 at 4:59 pm re RealityReturns:

    If they do it, I suggest a formal protest from all of us is in order. Contrary to some opinion here, I don’t want to see the end of the DT JD blog, but snuffing out one of its brightest stars is a big step towards it. We should all agree on a text, then all of us post it over there, and on JD’s own blog in the event they burn it before he gets to see it. Thoughts anyone and does anyone want to write the text?

  375. msher says:


    If we do such posts, we have to post and then report the posts, so the moderators will be sure to see them. Also, would it make sense to put all the posts on Damian thompson’s blog?

    I didn’t exactly follow rr’s problem. But it appears that the word “troll” triggered getting moderated. Is that easy enough to get around by simply posting the word as “tr*ll?” The other problem that I thought I saw is that if you quote what a troll wrote, the moderators might censor you! But, James posted what was almost a death threat. (Note, Giles was very careful after talking about James’ death to say “whenever that might be.” He either realized, or someone told him, the need to include those words so the police could NOT construe the e-mail as a death threat. ) But my question is why didn’t that get deleted. Did the moderators look at it and see that James had posted it? Or did it not have any words that trigger the filters? (“Death” doesn’t? That word, if any, should trigger a look by moderators. How about weapons – “machetes?”)

  376. crownarmourer says:

    Blackswan that email was disturbing on so many levels the guy is mentally ill, as you may have read my own wife has witnessed things she would rather have not coming from Vietnam, war is not pleasant. She left before things things really hotted up during the Diem coup. She has witnessed the death of young boy shot while trying to escape a US military compound we think was the embassy a companion of hers, not by US troops but from outside the compound as she says they were horrified and concerned. The US troops treated them well from what she can remember. She was raised in the imperial city in Hue a palace although she did not realize this fact until after exhaustive research on my part pinned it down from her descriptions of close by mountains a river and the sea. she described the unique architecture and the predominate colors of red purple and gold, the dragons, the urns and everything else.
    She had servants running after her at all times, she is not royalty as they had all left by then but we can only guess who her family is, she remembers servants crying and being driven south to Saigon.

  377. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Oz, Msher,

    Giving it some thought after a quick scroll through RR’s posts, I am of the opinion that the point of the Moderators threat to delete ALL posts, is to get rid of his looooong lists of AGW sceptic scientists, which he repeats often through the course of a thread, and his links to and looooong quotes from highly credentialed deniers.

    They aren’t getting their knickers in a knot over “troll”, although RR seems to think one of them reported him. They are just looking for an excuse to cauterize him .

    If they take him out on such a flimsy pretext, it’ll be to get rid of the mountain of information he single-handedly offers to the universe.

    I suggest Msher to write any representative protest as she’s the one cool-headed enough to put our point without going troppo.

    Also, whether they dump him or not, I still think we should defend him en masse.

  378. crownarmourer says:

    msher it was newsjunkie that complained apparently so if you see his comments hit report. enough of us do and that will quash him or her or it.
    ozboy if I write anything it will say eff you fascists so msher is your best bet for a legally vetted missive.
    Well night night see you all tomorrow.

  379. msher says:


    I went back and looked at rr’s complaint. His jibes at the trolls appear to have been moderated. That is in keeping with what the new policy Damian Thompson articulated as being. (Abuse will be moderated out.) BUT do we know why equivalent jibes back from trolls aren’t censored? Is it merely that the skeptics aren’t reporting? Here is a comment from a troll, spungomcgoo, Yesterday 06:11 PM (p 3 if the filter is set to “newest”).

    “I think this article might be the most retarded thing I’ve ever seen a “grown-up” newspaper put its banner on top of…..

    You’re an idiot, James. Good work on the selective and misleading quoting, though. Top-quality serious journalism there. “

    Could everyone perhaps report this comment, and ask why it hasn’t been moderated as abusive? I’ve made it clear that i don’t mind ALL the abuse being moderated out, but it should be even-handed. Is it just a matter of what gets reported?

    Msher – done. Let me clarify: bumping RR from the blog for highly subjective terms and conditions, leaving access to the blog down to the caprice of some rather questionable moderators, is bad enough. Retrospectively censoring everything RealityReturns has EVER WRITTEN, effectively re-writing the history of the AGW debate, is UNFORGIVEABLE (no apologies for shouting). If they do THAT, then ignore our protests, then to hell with the lot of them


  380. Blackswan Tasmania says:


    I believe you’re right about “newsjunkie”. I reckon it sounds a lot like Culty who seems to have vanished in recent times.

    The four greatest troll protagonists in the old format were RR, Pointy, TUB & Mack with many “frank” rejoinders coming from others. Without those controversial threads, JD’s blogs would have been just another dime-a-dozen opinion piece. I think James has made an effort to lift his game lately and I’d certainly like to see the thing continue, only better. I’m in.

  381. msher says:

    crownarmourer, black swan

    I think before anyone writes anything, we should be sure we have a clear grip on what the moderators have been doing, why it isn’t in keeping with what they want their own policy to be and what the easy fix is. Then we should write it, report it to the moderators, AND put it on Thompson’s blog also, so he can make use of it. Remember, he approves wholeheartedly of “ABUSE” being moderated. (And since I have seen what he has been subjected to, I certainly understand his viewpoint.) So how do we characterize what is going wrong in a way that the DT might be sympathetic? “F*ck you, we don’t like this, we’re gone” will only be a symbolic gesture. They don’t care, they’ve already made the calculation that they are willing to lose those who object.

    I think I have already put on this blog/thread an awful lot about James’ blog. Someone else should compose the post.

    Msher, I disagree (and agree with the others): I think you’d be best qualified in this instance to speak for all of us. But it’s entirely up to you – Oz

  382. msher says:


    I would feel very presumptous speaking for the others on this blog on this subject, as my views are at odds with many. I don’t even always agree with reality returns in his approach to the trolls. Another thing, is – assuming you agree with the approach I just outlined, I don’t know the actual contents of what we would say. I don’t think we have yet developed it.

    How about us all developing a consensus on the following:

    1) What exactly the moderators have been doing (I’m personally not sure),

    2) Why that is not serving their own stated policy (I haven’t yet bothered to read it as stated, and then we’d have to go back and re-read what Thompson had to say when he announced it), and

    3) An easy way they could fix or adjust.

    I think Old Toad and brownbess might make good contributions.

    If we developed all that, the appropriate post(s) would be easy to write by me, or by any one of us (assuming everyone agreed to this approach).

  383. Edward. says:

    msher says,
    ‘ “I think this article might be the most retarded thing I’ve ever seen a “grown-up” newspaper put its banner on top of…..

    You’re an idiot, James. Good work on the selective and misleading quoting, though. Top-quality serious journalism there. “

    Could everyone perhaps report this comment, and ask why it hasn’t been moderated as abusive? I’ve made it clear that i don’t mind ALL the abuse being moderated out, but it should be even-handed. Is it just a matter of what gets ‘

    Good point msher!

    Therein lies the difference, alarmists are not rounded individuals but spotty oikes who are fresh out of Teesside Arts college of FE (or equivalent) and who take the word of smarmy bastards like Moonbat as if it was from Mammon himself.
    They try to insult RR etc, it is water off a ducks back to him, realists don’t complain because the outrage and froth is as nothing when compared with real life, there is a difference.
    When the Delirium Tremens ‘MODS’ become involved it is barking up the wrong tree, RR is a decent lad, bit over the top sometimes but not derranged like some, look at Warners blog and see some of the Islamo-fascist’s comments on there.
    You are correct Oz, RR is in need of support, I like RR and he is informative and he really does read a hell of a lot of papers etc around the subject (AGW), he is the stalwart of the GE blog, I do support him (in spirit, tho’ couldn’t keep up with him sometimes on old format blog, don’t bother now too much farting around) .


  384. Walt O'Brien says:

    My military piggy’s nose smelled trouble about the time we started getting coordinated multiple attacks online at the DT according to a near-perfect timetable. I am never going to blog at the Delirium Tremens again. I’ve never seen right on left threats of violence not since the mid-60’s has it been on the radar screen, it is solely the preserve of left on right anymore, and JD is getting a great education now respecting what the price is to be not insane. Wretched stuff but the majority voted for it, we allowed the left to expropriate our educaitonal system and in essence the entire moral agenda of the West, and this is but one more instance of what that has led to. The left will tolerate anything except contradiction.

    Poking a sleeping bear in the arse is okay if you have a bear disintegrator on hand, but when it is a drowning polar bear and you are throwing it an anchor, well then, here come the luvvies and the “How dare you ?” crowd.

    One of the reasons I’m running my picture and my real name is to deal with this type issue. I love threats and stalkers, especially if they are well-funded and work in cadres LOL! Come to papa, my little pets…

    BTW, Crownarmourer, Richard Gere is from Syracuse, and went to SU’s drama school. Eerie synchronicity here.

    Here’s what I’ve been poking at on the side on my own time, and what the UK and Oz utility community should be looking at, as this represents not only meeting the carbon emissions but ALL of them cost-effectively and with a net and gross improvement in efficiency:


    This isn’t on any greentard’s radar screen, as they’ve not the technical expertise and this also leaves the door open for any form of thermal combustion involving gaseous or liquid fuel, so they will probably try to kill this off too. Brilliant stuff, though.

  385. Edward. says:

    msher says:
    June 30, 2010 at 6:43 pm
    Once again I concur, if it be done, best be done right!

    I’ve never read the rools……never cared a whit………always tried to keep posts as moderate as I could (Wimp I know) but I never went in for Trolling etc,
    I don’t know what the problem is, I nearly posted on this ‘attack’ on RR last night but thought it inappropriate and when I thought about it, realised I didn’t have the full picture, which we to my mind don’t anyway, do we just steam in and put a collective ‘foot’ in it……?


  386. Edward. says:

    Walt O’Brien says:
    June 30, 2010 at 6:48 pm
    Great post Walt.

  387. msher says:


    Sorry, I just noticed the material you put onto my post at 5:50 pm. You have already started to develop the content I talked about. It’s really late here in California, and I have to go to bed for an early, busy hard day tomorrow. I might not have a chance to get back to this for a while.

  388. Walt O'Brien says:

    Hi, Ed. Well, my little neighborhood has seen off MS-13, just popped a 17-person heroin ring with Federal assistance the week before last, survived Juneteenth (just kidding, it was bluesalicious to the max), and hammer-threw the boom-boom SUV crack dealer crowd out of town with real hammers before the snow thawed out, so I do hope whomever is trading in nasties pays us the courtesy of a visit for a taste of NY hospitality. Kind of “Up The Lazy River” Apocalypse Now style, except it will be lefties looking for this Col. Kurtz. The horror, the horror.

    New York, the Be Nice or Die state. Soivice with a smile. Never a dissatisfied customer.

  389. Pointman says:

    Morning All,

    I’ve been visiting the DT blog to catch up on the RR controversy. It seems to me that if you want to post at a blog, you must abide by their terms. If you find their terms unacceptable or they are amended to being unacceptable, as in this case, you really shouldn’t be posting there. That’s a decision for RR but I get the feeling that in the end, they won’t be able housetrain him. I, like Walt and a few others here, saw the writing on the wall and struck camp.

    As for writing some sort of protest letter, I fail to see what leverage we have nor why we should have, on someone else’s blog. I’ve said before that I thought the content side of the blog was gone, which left only the chatty or troll baiting side, which looks to be going the way of the Polar Bears. Patently, the trolls are much better at playing the ‘report’ button game.

    At the end of the day, it’s up to James to fight for his own particular flavour of blog, not us.


  390. Walt O'Brien says:

    Hi, Pointy. What’s a nice guy like you doing in a blog like this? LOL! I couldn’t take it anymore either, really. My view now is that let the green extrusions go ahead and play their madness out to the end then try to talk their way out of the consequences to themselves both as a group and more importantly, socially and politically.

    The greenies cannot back down now. The churches and the educational system and the governmental system and the unions all have their pension funds tied up in investing in the AGW fraud, up to their eyeballs. That’s what captainsherlock was yammering on about in such profuse detail. I do not see a conspiracy so much as a “gee, that sounds like a good idea” plague striking all at once from an investment standpoint, as AGW financial fraud is the very last card left to play to re-finance the mountain of debt floating about in the West. When this folds, everyone will HAVE to pay everything down while eating mountains of steaming organic putrefied biomass and hoping their next door neighbor doesn’t remember all their advocacy of green options for power generation. AGW is what the greentards chose as the fiscal backstop for the West’s economy, and there is no Plan B crafted for if things don’t work out quite as planned.

    Maybe it’s me, but I do think a Confederate flag is a bit of bull-teaser by anyone’s lights, however. I am trying to imagine the condition RR’s personal auto would be in if he had one on his bumper sticker and parked downtown here in Syracuse. To do so would make one local auto body repair shop owner a really happy guy!

  391. Edward. says:

    “Soivice with a smile. Never a dissatisfied customer.”
    Always Sir!

    Nice one Walt!


  392. ScouseBilly says:

    Pointman, I agree. For what it’s worth I did press the report button on some of newsjunkies posts and lo and behold they were “edited by moderator”. Incidently, I haven’t seen any posts from Mack or Yaossx – have they been banned? I wonder.
    Perhaps the old adage of ignoring the trolls is still the best policy but it does seem that the new format alerts a possie of “trolls”. Whatever, the JD blog isn’t what it was and thank goodness (Oz) that we have this place.

  393. Walt O'Brien says:

    The big mistake JD made was doing what th egreentards did: exclude engineering input providers from the argument. Again, I don’t think even David Cameron has registered P. Eng’s on his advisory staff that have had anything to do with real-world power generation desiderata and problem-solving. Both sides are in the stranglehold of ivory tower academics who to my mind had no right whatever to enter into any form of conversation respecting what is and shall ever be exclusively an engineering problem.

    Scientists don’t craft machinery for public use in industrial circumstances, not ever. They go to jail the moment they try to connect a standards compliance-free gizmo to the grid. There is no such thing as reliability science, it is called reliability engineering. Full stop.

    It is also JD’s blog. Toby Harnden’s taken his knocks to be a journalist for a quality, and it is time for JD to pay his dues also, if he wants that British equivalent of the Pulitzer one day. Con Coughlin is CEO of a top-drawer security and C/I firm, so I’ve no concerns for JD’s safety, really, not even if Al Qa-Bloomo were on his case. Hell, half the DT readership are former British forces LOL!

  394. Walt O'Brien says:

    Ed, I’m just sorry dueling is illegal. I think every power plant operating engineer and electric utility owner on the planet would be calling Greenpeace staff out for a morning get-together over brekkies and rapiers if it weren’t.

  395. Pointman says:

    Hi Walt.

    To my mind, the biggest factor in the demise of the AGW scam will be the recession. The creditability of the science has been severely dented which will provide the politicians the wait-and-see excuse they needed to put a lot of green spending on hold – just another part of the austerity regime. eg ETS has been pushed back three years here in Oz.

    Given our looming power generation gap in the UK, when the lights start going out, reality will return!


  396. Walt O'Brien says:

    BTW, at the same time our economies are tanking as a result of indecision on the AGW non-issue, the Saudis and other OPEC members enjoy an 8% growth rate in their collective GDP for the first fiscal QUARTER of this year. They do not give a f**k about AGW. Their noxious refinery night-time flares light up the sky from Riyadh to Tripoli. This includes Duckyland.

  397. Pointman says:

    ScouseBilly June 30, 2010 at 7:35 pm

    From the ashes of Troy, Rome was born courtesy of Romulus and Remus!


  398. ScouseBilly says:

    Scrap that Mack and Yaossx are posting there…

  399. Edward. says:

    “AGW is what the greentards chose as the fiscal backstop for the West’s economy, and there is no Plan B crafted for if things don’t work out quite as planned.”
    So true!

    This is why panic is beginning to set in, there is a helluva lot riding on Obarmy’s Cap’n’ trade Malarky, God I hope he doesn’t push that bollocks through.
    The reb flag is a bit daft, they did have IMHO the better generals though, but as Boney said, “God is on the side of the big battalions” or was it Voltaire?

    @ Pointman says:
    June 30, 2010 at 7:16 pm
    thinking on what you said Pointy, I think you’re correct, it’s not our fight in many ways, as to leverage, well JD is not concerned is he?
    If he is then let him (JD) strike out.

    Here’s something for you Swanny,
    As my post said last night, cold is in the air for us all!


  400. Walt O'Brien says:

    Pointman, Greenies will be lynched en masse without the kind intervention of Happy Mr. Policeman when reality returns. Bwahahahahaha!

    A little music, maestro:

  401. Pointman says:


    There’s a storm coming …


  402. Ozboy says:

    G’day everyone,

    Look, I don’t mean to make of RR a cause célèbre (I’ve not spoken to him about this), and pointy’s point @June 30, 2010 at 7:16 pm above is well taken. You’re right pointy, how their blog goes from here is up to them; it’s the re-writing of history that burns Ozboy and has him hopping mad.

    Well, how this blog goes is up to me and you all know where I stand on that. I’m off to bed soon but please keep tossing this issue about here; IMHO there’s an important principle at stake.

  403. Walt O'Brien says:

    Speaking of which, it’s a workday and it’s almost 6 a.m. LOL! Time for quickie schnoozie, then back at it. Later.

  404. Edward. says:

    “Walt O’Brien says:
    June 30, 2010 at 7:42 pm
    Indeed and the Saudis use the brass to fund new mosque building all over Western Europe, Wahhabism is the most extreme form of Islam and guess where all the Universities are, which teach this extremism? Yep you’ve guessed it, they train imams in Medina and send ’em to British mosques, the British government allows it.
    Kind of ironic, we are funding our own demise.


  405. Ozboy says:

    Update: I just popped over to DT and asked RR to stop by and lend his thoughts

  406. Edward. says:

    Pointman says:
    June 30, 2010 at 7:52 pm
    Mornin’ pointy,

    Indeed there is, can’t say I much look forward to it though, snow is great when you are a kid.
    Last year was cold in Britain, we didn’t have much snow, if we have a winter like 62/63 or God forbid 47, then we will be in big, deep white shit.

    To me Joe Bastardi is a sage, forget the Met office ladies (sorry Amanda and msher) this guy is the real deal and I am worried on a number of counts;
    1. In Britain we don’t do snow, witness the debacle last year, snow (and it wasn’t deep lay on pavements and side roads for weeks), major snow would bring the country to the brink in days.

    2. Our power generation is decrepit and getting worse, on very cold evenings guess what? Yes no fucking wind, ergo no fucking power from all our majestic new chocolate teapots. With a big surge(in demand), we could have a major outage as we just cannot cope, people will die and no I’m not fucking kidding.

    3. Power in Britain is now very expensive, especially for some older residents, people who now cannot afford to pay the new tariffs – which is all locked into vast bills for the new green guff technology etc, last year it was a case for some of eat or heat, that is wrong, wrong, wrong, do we live in a ‘civilised’ country if people die because of not being able to afford heating bills because of the madness of ‘greening’ our economy?

    4. New green energy like ‘feed in tariffs’ is subsidised by poorer residents and people who live in domiciles not able to utilise grants, solar power, insulation subsidies, how is that equitable???

    British and the EU politicians are oblivious to all of this – living in their cocooned world, it is another reason why this madness needs to be fought, mother nature will win the argument eventually but how much lucre and pain is it gonna take?

    End rant.


  407. realityreturns says:

    Hi Oz

    I am here…..good to see you all.

  408. Ozboy says:

    RR – scroll up to 5:08pm (3.5 hrs ago) onwards – thx, Oz

  409. theendisnighnot says:

    I’m with Pointman on RR he was one of the major reasons i started reading the JD blog and his contribution in terms of lists of non-consensus scientists really opened my eyes in the early days as dis his overall knowledge. I suspect this was the case for many “lurkers” My point is surely the GE himself ought to show some appreciation of RR’s huge contribution to his blog and do something about it. All this guff about IT problems etc etc is just that guff. In some ways i admire his, Macks, Yassox’s etc etc resiliance myself i prefer it here. It’s the place to be and its groovy!

  410. Edward. says:

    Willkommen RR,

    Wie geht es Ihnen? was ist los?
    Crikey can’t keep this up (schoolboy German), how are yer?
    Tell us what is going on? AT Delerium Tremens aka DT JD blog………..

    Sorry tell Ozboy I’ve got to dash, see ya around RR!
    Don’t let the bastards grind you down!


  411. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Ed, 6.51pm says

    “when I thought about it, realised I didn’t have the full picture, which we to my mind don’t anyway, do we just steam in and put a collective ‘foot’ in it……?”

    Quite so Ed. Being the sort of chook that’s prone to sticking my long neck out, wings aflap, feathers ruffled, I decided to take your more pragmatic approach on board, and decided to actually look at the thread as a whole.

    Msher’s right. I couldn’t see one offensive troll comment from RR, only;
    “Now behave while I explain, there’s a good troll”, so perhaps any crude material has already been deleted, leaving his lists, links and quotes, the loss of which was my major concern.


    Early in the thread is a character called Chunkylimey whose avatar is depicting two big green balls emerging from British flag underpants (?) so I suspect we are dealing with the Jolly Green Giant. The degree of personal abuse this creature directed at RR is appalling including;

    “Someone using a flag from a defeated racist treasonous gang of douchebags really doesn’t have an opinion worth listening to Now behave while I explain, there’s a good troll. Clearly a sack of crap that was just intelligent enough to realize the swastika was just a little “too obvious”……………

    “Not really worth trusting the opinion of someone who uses a racist flag of treason as their icon. “realityturns” when would a delusional revisionist racist like you ever understand reality? Yeah it’s an Ad Hominem attack; however your flag says enough about your pathetic life”……………..

    “I’d probably prefer you to have the Swastika because that would be more honest about what your flag says (not your fault that people aren’t ignorant of history and don’t know what you proudly declaring your racism and genocidal side with your flag).”…………………..

    “I mean if the state of Mississippi only has the balls to wave a crappy flag rather than being honest enough to admit how treasonous they are that’s their problem. Cowardice has always been the way of the South though”……………

    “Perfectly summed up by someone using a Confederate flag as their icon. The symbol of pro-slavery, racism”…………….

    Why is that kind of personal abuse to anyone being tolerated? RR says he has tried to report them and been ignored.

    While I’ve only occasionally lurked and made a couple of comments when I had something to say, it’s been hardly worth the bother.

    I agree with Walt and Pointy in that JD had better step up and sort this out, but I also agree with Ozboy. How can you censure one person, RR, and let the likes of the Jolly Green Giant have open slather? Moderation must be even-handed and apply to all.

    Maybe wait & see how this plays out is the most prudent option……


  412. yaosxx says:

    Hi All,

    This is only the second time I’ve posted here mainly because I still believe in the fight over at JD’s. If you wish to include my name in any complaint regarding the treatment of RR – feel free.

    Thanks yaosxx. You’re not the only person staying at DT for largely the same reasons, which I do respect.

    Clearly there’s a range of opinion here and we need to see it discussed further before we make any plans. Do stop by again – Oz

  413. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    G’day RR & Yaosxx,

    Good to see you guys here on the “home page”.

    Been lurking and you guys have sure been hanging in there.

    I’ll be paying closer attention. I just can’t stand that Jolly Green Giant – you know that guy with the big green balls avatar.

    What do you blokes think about the threat to take down ALL the RR posts, including lists and links?

  414. realityreturns says:

    HI Guys

    As far as I know, I did not break any rules. I even went to the trouble on a number of occasions to make things very oblique…like “I would have said s*d off but the moderator wouldn’t like it.” The newsjunkie may be a plant. It’s ploy is like a more vindictive and disagreable troll than damoclese, which takes some doing.

    The problem is that this newsjunkie troll is a Judy8 type with the same persecution complex. It claims that it is an AGW agnostic but posts as a downright watermelon.

    However, the trolls seem to have command of the blog now…Oddly the very same has happened on Damian Thompson’s own blog. The old guard seem to have been ousted by trolls and moderators working in unison!

    I can assure you that I have not used the ‘F’ word or any really abusive words as most of you know I don’t even when angry with trolls. The immoderators seem to be trying to wipe out the old guard. I cannot see any reason in the rules as to why they would want to wipe my posts on sceptical scientists unless they are trolls themselves.

    Pointy is right of course, it is the DT’s blog and however unfair, they will displace us one way or another, I feel. To write a protest may help but I think the outcome is a foregone conclusion. None of my work analysing the science or scientist will be lost except from the JD blog as I have it all backed up.

    What may help I think is that if each one of you individually, who feels strongly about the way I am being treated, makes their own post on the JD blog and/or recommends the posts I have made about AGW and the troll take-over; also just hopping on the DT blog and reporting junkie and other offensive trolls would be much appreciated.

    Many thanks for your kind words. I’ll keep in touch.


  415. Ozboy says:

    Thanks for that RR. I’m off to bed – will stop by during the night

  416. yaosxx says:

    Blackswann – I really do think the threat to remove all of RR’s posts was a threat too far – a serious complaint has to be made to these delusions of grandeur by the Mods. I do hope JD too will make his protestations felt against this threat to someone who has contributed a large library of posts on his blogs. All because some “cry baby” troll got upset at being called a troll!! JD has called lots of people trolls – what are the mods going to do about it – delete his blogs??? He even had a blog about trolls so we had to discuss the subject – are they going to delete that as well??? Madness.

  417. realityreturns says:

    One last point, the loss of my posts will lose much of the thread and yet more of the history of ‘our’ JD blog will be lost as it was when the system was changed over. I see nothing that we can do to prevent that but each making a protest post of their own as I suggested will at least let the DT know how we feel.

    many thanks, sincerely


  418. realityreturns says:

    Hi yaosxx and thanks

    I like your point about the cry baby troll. It seems any troll crying for teacher is pandered to now.



  419. yaosxx says:

    RR – I e mailed that post of mine above to JD – he’s come straight back and said he’s had a word with the powers to be and is awaiting a reply…

  420. realityreturns says:

    Thanks yaosxx

    I appreciate that very much.



  421. rastech says:

    Pointman says:
    June 30, 2010 at 7:40 pm

    Yep, we’ll be lucky to get out of this one, within 20 years.

    A lot of the political BS, is going to be dying a painful death in the process.

  422. rastech says:

    RR:” The old guard seem to have been ousted by trolls and moderators working in unison!”

    Don’t rule out the posibility that the trolls ARE the moderators! /tinfoil

    With what was said with relish on their part before DISQUST was unrolled, I got the distinct impression that they had accomplished the complete ‘takeover’ and DISQUST was their means of doing it.

    Don’t understimate them, they are extremely co-ordinated, have had decades of practice exercising their spite on newsgroups, and they are extremely well funded . . . . .

  423. Pointman says:

    realityreturns June 30, 2010 at 9:04 pm

    My commiserations but all the work done has been saved by MOTM. We’re kicking around ideas as to who it can be released without violating any copyright squabble with the DT.

    For you bro’ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TD7WCfa6a7I


  424. Edward. says:

    Blackswan Tasmania says:
    June 30, 2010 at 8:35 pm

    Some of the ad hom is way off base, it is filth, what the hell are we dealing with here?
    The ‘guy’ is a nutter, deranged, surely some idiot at the DT should be censoring that rubbish?
    Chunky limey = Fuckwitshitforbrains they are mutually interchangeable.

    Is it Disqust or is the DT responsible, I don’t know, I would be interested to know but ain’t going to find out myself, I have left JDs blog in the main, I still go and to Warner’s and Norman’s but the whole thing is just to hard and hard to have a real conservation.
    I have said above, the fact is that the JD blog is like having a klan blog on the Human Rights and Equalities Commission site, the editorial stance from the owners is now ULTRA pro AGW, it is pro ‘Call me Dave’ (who is as green and as stupid as KRudd).

    I think this has a lot, if not everything to do with the current problems: Totalitarianism suffers no dissent.

    What a sad thing to say about ‘my’ paper, alas I fear I’m near the truth.
    A victory for stupid blind obeisance and AGW advocacy over rationale.


  425. Amanda says:

    Come to papa, my little pets…

    Walt, you really are amazing.

  426. Amanda says:

    Pointman at 7:16 and also at 7:40:

    I agree really, without wishing to comment on RR, who should not be done down in favour of antis who have no more entitlement than he has.

  427. Old Toad says:

    Confirming what yaosxx says above, JD is indeed waiting for a reply from the ‘immoderators’. He is very appreciative of RR’s input over a long period and appalled that the use of ‘troll’ should be considered abusive.
    As el commandante has said, the DT does not have an editorial policy. The continued employment of Gray and Lean would indicate that they back the Cleggeron/Huhne line on AGW and power generation. Ed West said on another blog yesterday (Richard Spencer’s)”I agree entirely with James Delingpole” but that does not apply to all the others at the DT.
    However JD would see no mileage in throwing his toys out of the pram (OK, some would say ‘that’s what he does’) as the words ‘nose’, ‘spite’ and ‘face’ come to mind.

  428. realityreturns says:

    Many thanks for all the support guys. Feel free to comment on me, Amanda, good or bad. My hopes for UKIP were dashed, I know (despite nearly a million votes), so you may consider my political judgement poor and I agree.



  429. Caridnor says:

    off current topic, but I don’t want to get mixed up with Trolls…
    @ the DT, Rastech says (around mid day) re power generation –
    “With MHD it is simple enough to increase flow rates, and it has the advantage of no moving parts.
    Far cheaper to construct, far cheaper to maintain, far longer service life that’s just about maintenance free.
    eta: all reservoir outflows should be retrofitted with MHD generators.
    Plus all above ground pumped and gravity fed mains water lines should be fitted with them as sections get to the replacement stage.”
    Can you explain further…. the references to MHD that I have found state that the fluid has to be at very high temperature????

  430. crownarmourer says:

    Since they have outsourced some of their operations is it likely that the moderators are also not in house anymore? If disqus is in California then that would explain some of the hard line approaches they take to AGW, homosexuality and tolerance for Islam. Very few trolls have there posts pulled even if they are offensive and you report them.

  431. Edward. says:

    Your dry, pearls of wisdom belie your youthful visage, are you a child prodigy perchance?
    I think the immods are off campus, they must be or they are from Cif.


  432. crownarmourer says:

    Well best I not write something to Damien T I have been hounding him for the last few weeks without mercy, do not be fooled by his supposed religiosity the man is a liberal at heart, heck he approves of male prostitution and serious drug use as a lifestyle choice.
    He is not what he seems. However even he has not got much control over the moderators either it seems just what is in the blogs that are posted.

  433. crownarmourer says:

    Edward it seems they may be, I wonder if old toad and brown bess know?

  434. Edward. says:

    A good question crown.


  435. Pointman says:


    There’s an extremely good post over at the DT by DaveEdinburgh. I thouroughly recommend.


  436. Edward. says:

    Er yes pointy old stick but where at the DT?


  437. Pointman says:

    Sorry Ed – in JD blog. Still some signal in all that noise.


  438. Pointman says:

    @Ed. Saddest of all, the post has been there a half hour and not one comment on it.


  439. Edward. says:

    Found it pointy!
    Ta for tip!

    Wow! an excoriating post and very like Bastardi’s reasoning, he constantly refers to how puny the CO2 increase is relative to the mass of the dynamic atmosphere.
    Will an alarmist come back on this post?
    I have to salute Dave Edinburgh……..got to be a, nom de plume – ne c’est pas?


  440. Pointman says:

    @Ed. “nom de plume ” D’accord mais qui?

    He knows what he’s talking about. Know anyone in the debate from or living in Edinburgh?


  441. brownbess says:

    I’ve just been sent the naughty email by the moderators. I feel angry and humiliated and indignant all at once. I’m being accused of bullying! WTF! I’ve replied and asked them to tell me what exactly was it was that caused offence.

    And on the moderation front – I don’t know who does it. But I’ll find out.
    Also Damian is a lovely chap.

  442. Edward. says:


    It is an excellent post, I’ ve just read it again.

    I have been racking my one brain cell, it is a familiar style and it could be Richard North (it kind of) is his style because of the subliminal contempt.


  443. Pointman says:

    Is the climate around global warming changing?

    “What was striking about it was that the BBC, which has tended to be gung-ho in its presentation of the dangers of global warming, actually presented those who are sceptical of the orthodoxy in a reasonably fair way. In doing so, it accepted that there is a genuine debate – and not some Big Oil-funded attempt to pervert the course of environmental justice, as some earlier BBC programmes have suggested. ”


    An interesting take on the BBC Panorama programme.


  444. Edward. says:

    Yes a fair article, this idea of debate and softly softly approach smacks of a sinister reappraisal of the alarmist ‘way forward’ and it allows the whole of the ecofascist agenda in via the back door, because it assumes (wrongly of course) that the message that we are all doomed is doctrinal orthodoxy and we need to get on with the remedy/s (whatever they are?) whilst we talk.
    That is not what I am about, the whole runaway train wants shunting into the sidings and then we can discuss a non existent expostulation and thus allowing mother earth to do the talking for the realist camp.
    Whilst Britain goes headlong down the road of green guff technological looney tunes all civilised ‘debate’ is off the menu.


  445. Pointman says:

    brownbess July 1, 2010 at 2:24 am

    You, RR et al have fought a good reargard action but at some point the numbers stack up against you and you’re in danger of being overwhelmed. Time to start thinking about a tactical withdrawl, I’m afraid.

    It’s a battle lost but not the war. Listen to the words, they’re good and move out http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gHiR1xeOSs&feature=related


  446. Amanda says:

    Forgive me if this titbit has already been aired, though I suspect not:

    Take One for the Team

    ‘Of all the terrible details in [reporter] Byron York’s column on the 73-page police complaint by the masseuse assaulted by Al Gore, the most interesting, politically, was this:

    Finally she got away. Later, she talked to friends, liberals like herself, who advised against telling police. One asked her “to just suck it up; otherwise, the world’s going to be destroyed from global warming.”


  447. Pointman says:

    Edward. July 1, 2010 at 2:36 am

    It’s certainly a change of approach but I think it’s stage 3 stuff (bargaining) or maybe I’m being optimistic. Popular belief in AGW is on the wane. The tried to pump up the alarmist bit after climategate but it had the opposite effect. It’s like the history we were taught – they’ve lost the mob and we know what happen after that …


  448. Amanda says:

    Reported in The New York Post:

    The masseuse alleged, “He grabbed my right hand hard, shoved it down under the sheet to his pubic-hair area . . . and said to me, ‘There!’ in a very sharp, loud, angry-sounding tone.”

    ME: This is already sounding more hard-core than Pachauri’s gawd-help-us romance.

    She added, “He had a dramatic display of violent temper as well as an extremely dictatorial commanding attitude besides his Mr. Smiley Global Warming concern persona.”

    ME: And this is unusual for warmists?

  449. crownarmourer says:

    brownbess sorry I think Damien is a bigot when it comes to other Christian denominations so I’m not amused with him. All this my God id better than your God nonsense is childish. Anyhow he is currently on my Norty list but I’m careful not to push things too far with him but I can rib him as much as I can get away with.

  450. crownarmourer says:

    amanda any surprises as to why he is now getting divorced just as this news comes out, I’m sure there are a lot of women currently in the shadows awaiting their turn.

  451. Pointman says:

    Amanda July 1, 2010 at 2:47 am

    You’ve piqued my interest. What was it of Al’s that her liberal ‘friends’ wanted her to “suck up”?


    ps. Sorry, couldn’t resist. I almost said why can’t she bend over and take it up the butt from the Liberals like all the rest of us.

  452. Amanda says:

    I dunno, Crown: the real reason is why his wife waited so long to do the necessary. Perhaps she was on the edge of chuckking him and this just made her reach the tipping point. So to speak.

  453. Amanda says:

    I mean the real question. My brain is getting flabby, I think. Lots of mistakes, too many fries.

    In a few days we’ll be heading back to Houston, and the theme will be (sing to the tune of BTO’s Let It Ride):

    Goodbye, French fry…
    Bye, bye, bye
    I wanna cry…

  454. Amanda says:

    And some might add: too much alcohol!

  455. rastech says:

    Caridnor if you suspend two copper wires into the water of a flowing river, electricity is generated. I think it was Benjamin Franklyn that discovered this.

    In essence, this is an MHD generator.

    They can indeed function well with high temperature gas or liquids as well, but high temperatures are far from essential.

    To have a ‘proper’ MHD generator, all you need is alternating bands of metal inside a tube, and the flow of material over their surface generates electricity.

    This does work the other way around as well, and you can feed current into the bands, and get propulsion . . . . . . . .

    I don’t know if you remember the film ‘Hunt for Red October’ and the ‘Caterpillar’ propulsion system fitted to the Russian sub in that?

    Well that isn’t a fiction . . . . . . . . . . . .

    There’s also a way you can make that system work with aircraft propulsion as well as with ship propulsion, but I haven’t patented it yet.

  456. Amanda says:


    Well no need to be shy. This lady wasn’t, when discussing the Clinton-Lewinsky case:

    Time magazine’s Nina Burleigh said, “I would be happy to give him” — Bill Clinton — “[oral sex] just to thank him for keeping abortion legal. I think American women should be lining up with their presidential kneepads on to show their gratitude for keeping the theocracy off our backs.”

    Charming, just charming. At least the church only asks you to light a candle. What a slave that woman is. Unfit to be a member of a free society.

  457. Amanda says:

    Oh, and too much Internet!

  458. crownarmourer says:

    Well if people are getting told off for bullying then it must be duckham or one of the old trolls back to their old tricks, so much for light moderating. I’m surprised I haven’t got one yet time to resort to sarcasm I think.

  459. fenbeagle says:

    Caridnor if you suspend two copper wires into the water of a flowing river, electricity is generated. I think it was Benjamin Franklyn that discovered this.

    Off subject, (sorry), but doesn’t this support the ‘Baghdad Battery’ And theories about electricity being a very old discovery. Given the length of time that civilisations have been using copper?

  460. Caridnor says:

    Rastech, thanks for that – it sort of fits in with something I’ve long suspected. So, how do we get an MHD generator on every welsh stream…….. and clean up in the process?
    I liked your bit about the heat pump – someone in the village here has applied for pp to install one (the fan will be close to the boundary). I think he’s going to be seriously disappointed …………………………

  461. Walt O'Brien says:

    Amanda says:
    June 30, 2010 at 11:49 pm

    It’s really just the 1960’s all over again, different day, same batwits, similar money sources.

    Amanda, you do realize even though it’s not mentioned AT ALL in the press, that the entire Middle Eastern energy provider community kicks into the till for their little counter-West organizations, which are exclusively Marxist of the nativist variety, don’t you? It’s the old Leonard Peltier Indian rights extremist game except with Arabs, the yahoos we are fighting the Afghan and Iraq and right here. They trace back to the original Middle East Marxist movement Al-Bani (no relation to the state capital of New York LOL! or rather “Yes, they are related,” today’s leftists are fellow travelers with them).

    The punchline of the entire AGW routine is to defenestrate our energy independence drive based on rational engineering criteria and sound, self-financing design standards to ensure eternal dependence on Middle Eastern energy supplies while screwing US over and ruining OUR economy while we build theirs at the present record pace (plus they want us to kill all the Jews, which doesn’t exactly work for me, I have to deal with a Noahide one every morning when I shave though I would back their play anyway, and all that other Marxist/fascist crap).

    So we don’t have any choice, and as they are not only physical cowards, they are intellectual ones down to the last idiot, that person being working class woman-bullying ex-Vice Presidential traitor who is superfat from eating so much leftwing bomb-throwers’ biomass, they are good fun to taunt, plus they may just take my advice and come visit my little friends and me, too.

    Just because they go to mosques doesn’t mean they can’t be Communists. The entire Marxist agitprop machine exists to this day because the useful idiots who “lead” the Christian and Moslem and Hindu faiths, as well as a third of the Jewish community, bankroll the hard left through investment in risibly misnomered “environmentally responsible” portfolios.

    I don’t have any choice now any more than I did in the 1960’s and 1970’s except to put a brave face on. It’s not a joke to say I was safer in the Marine Corps then than staying in my home town associating with my former friends. (People have such short memories). If the new/old Left get around to doing the Bosnia thingie and their terr teams wander about doing the religious affiliation trouser test, I am dead anyway. Bring it on.

  462. Pointman says:

    Amanda July 1, 2010 at 3:11 am

    ‘no need to be shy’ – I’ll remember that in future.

    Seriously though, I’ve been following that story about Gore for the last few years and the poor kid – talk about minimal reporting. You can hear the crash of the media ranks closing. I think there’s something in it but it’s too long after the event.

    The good news is, people who do that sort of crap are not one-off offenders (ask any cop or woman) and that’s why I raised it in Ozboy’s last blog. All it needs are a few frightened and isolated women to see they aren’t weren’t the only ones and to come forward. He’d be a bloody good scalp.


  463. Edward. says:

    Too much information Dahling (grin)!
    I think we should spare a thought for Tipper, she knew what a pompous twat he was but she stayed loyal……..though is that loyalty; misguided, misplaced or …… birdbrained?

    @Pointman 02.54
    Oh I do hope you are correct pointman, another cold winter and the public’s mind will be closed I do think….particularly in Germany, where Angela’s man is in trouble.
    What a shame, many Germans are fed up of her shenanigans, here’s hoping LOL!


  464. Walt O'Brien says:

    Caridnor says:
    July 1, 2010 at 3:32 am

    If you want a working MHD system, check out Plasco Energy Group’s municipal waste incineration plasma gas-based generation arrays. They’ve a unit up in Ottawa for the City municipal refuse disposal system, a major one in Spain, plus three or four others under construction.


    As with any other high-temperature system, the holdback is always cooling and metallurgy. Also, the consequences of the magnetic bottle containing the plasma cutting out are not worth thinking about LOL! MoD’s forerunner to the Defence Establishment Research Agency had a vigorous MHD research programme underway throughout WW II, and shut down op’s in 1948 owing to the reasons given above.

    You might also wish to search-engine “Professor Herman Branover magnetohydrodynamics” who chairs a number of universities’ research institutes on this topic (Ben-Gurion University of the Negev, Latvia’s main mechanical engineering uni, a Russian research institute, plus he has worked for DARPA since the mid-Eighties on this subject, too).

    Fusion power development is held up owing to shortfalls in knowledge of material sciences and cooling technology, too.

    Not to be terminally sarcastic, but it seems a good time for a larf: if we had a lemon 20 miles in diameter and stuck a 300 foot diameter, 10-mile long copper wire and a similarly-large zinc wire into it, we could probably power NYC for a year LOL! Baking soda and vinegar or Mentos and diet Pepsi might also be able to do a better job of turning a generator shaft than wind turbines have done so far, too.

  465. rastech says:

    Caridnor:”So, how do we get an MHD generator on every welsh stream…….. and clean up in the process?”

    Well the problem is the expense and sheer pain in the butt of all the water extraction rubbish – even if you aren’t exactly doing any extraction.

    To get waterflow increasing nicely, if you have a bit of a head of water, start out with say a very decent length of 12″ pipe, and then join it to an 8″ pipe, and you can have the MHD elements in both anyway. If you have a decent run of piping and a decent head of water, you can get good output from a water turbine on the end as well.

    To the person in the village going for the dedicated heatpump, congratulate them on all the wonderful excess heat they are going to have available during hot weather. 😛

    You CAN make use of that of course, just liek you can with all the incredible heat in the roofspace during decent weather.

    The only thing is, you have to blow that heat underground into big heat storage containment built under the foundations of the house (say about a 12 ft depth of sand covering 20 ft x 20ft) and well insulated, so the high grade heat is still available to tap when you need it in cold weather.

    If you have that, you can feed the warm air directly into the house with powered venting.

    I’d have a powered heat exchanger in the attic as well to scavage heat from exhaust air and transfer it to fresh incoming air.

    All cheap enough if you build it into the design from the word go, and cheap enough to run, as a few 4 watt computer fans will move all the air that needs moving (a bit like those Eberspacher central heating units on boats and in lorries, without all the expense).

  466. Old Toad says:

    Pointman “Time to start thinking about a tactical withdrawal”, Words Obama must keep repeating to himself, in his case, easier said than done. When you use them, I’m not sure whether you mean more folks should leave the JD blog alone or whether James should stop blogging. You’ve made it clear that you yourself are disenchanted and probably find it strange that RR, Yaosxx, Crown and others are hanging on in there.
    The immoderators assault on RR and brownbess tends to indicate a determined assault on the blog by an insider who is aware of their identities, and would like to see it closed down.
    Any of us could feel despondent and feel as you do, myself included, but then from nowhere, we get Dave Edinburgh spouting such sound common sense that you feel constrained to send everybody over there.
    I repeat that these 2 blogs are in a symbiotic relationship and the loss of either would be a pity, but not the end of the World. The fight against the mythology surrounding AGW would have to go on elsewhere.

  467. Walt O'Brien says:

    crownarmourer says:
    July 1, 2010 at 3:13 am

    We’re just being cynically played to be trapped by InterNet addiction into being the DT’s galley-slave ad-click monkeys, as from each ad-click they get, the Delirium Tremens gets 10p.

    Here’s a better way for them to get their clicks:


    JD could also give his daughters boxes of sweeties to distribute at church school to their little friends to bribe them into clicking into and out of his blog each and every day for an hour or so, or better yet, just to read a book while clicking on the page-refresh button when at the JD blog, a thousand times a day each. It’s one way to strengthen one’s grip if one plays piano. Pity you couldn’t use two mice at the same time.

  468. Pointman says:

    Caridnor – Welcome to Ozboy’s bar and grill. If you’re feeling a tad overwhelmed by the regulars’ industrial expertise, cheers mate – I need the company.

    Seriously though, welcome. Bring to the feast whatever you’ve got – it’s seriously eclectic around here and I do mean eclectic.


  469. rastech says:

    fenbeagle:”Off subject, (sorry), but doesn’t this support the ‘Baghdad Battery’ And theories about electricity being a very old discovery. Given the length of time that civilisations have been using copper?”

    Well there’s nowt new under the Sun, as they say . . . . . . . . . .

  470. Walt O'Brien says:

    The net effect of all this brouhaha since November of last year has been to bring a lot of really interesting people together at one time who might otherwise never have met for a digital get-together. I don’t see that as a total loss. It’s rather nice.

    Sort of an online pub which operates on a BYOB basis LOL! Pity the issue’s so serious and regardless of what we do, the greentards are going to go forward with whatever they choose in any event. They’re somewhat slightly over-committed to back out now, and with our money and everyone else’s, no less.

  471. Amanda says:


    What’s too much information dahling? That I eat french fries or that I drink?

  472. Amanda says:

    Walt at 4:08: Quite so to all of what you said.

  473. Walt O'Brien says:

    Amanda says:
    July 1, 2010 at 4:09 am

    It is a situation not unlike that about which the police detective told Jake (Jack Nicholson) at the end of his best, and Roman Polanski’s, film:

    “Don’t worry about it, Jake. It’s only Chinatown.”

  474. Amanda says:

    Ed: I agree, who wants to know that Al Gore has pubic hair? Probably the masseuse’s next duty was to shave him but they never got around to that. LOL Oh, it’s too much…

  475. Amanda says:

    Pointman: You were saying? About eclectic?

  476. rastech says:

    Old Toad says:
    July 1, 2010 at 3:58 am

    Well I must admit, I’ve kind of decided to spread myself around the DT blogs, and do some serious piss taking.

    I was over the moon finding this Panda to savage the retards with, for instance:

    and if they aren’t careful, I’ll unleash the kittens . . .

  477. Amanda says:

    Walt, oh dear yes. And it’s only money. And it’s only life (to say nothing of the sanctity of one’s nostrils).

  478. Caridnor says:

    Thanks, Rastech, Pointman Walt : yes just a bit overwhelmed , but I’m working on it.
    Totally agree with Walt’s comments re online pub :).

  479. Amanda says:


    I have bugger-all industrial expertise myself, but welcome, anyway.

  480. Walt O'Brien says:

    Also, sometimes you do a better job of winning when you lose. I’ll drink to that, and order up another plate of fried spuds, too.

    Though I shouldn’t. It will be eight weeks since no conventional ciggies and I just stepped on the scale. Two pounds up. A kilo in 8 weeks.

    That means in a year, at the rate, I will have added 12 pounds, and in a decade 120 lbs. Aaargh!

  481. Caridnor says:

    Thanks Amanda, you bring a certain lightness of touch to the blog……..
    or in view of recent discussion perhaps I shouldn’t say that?? 🙂

  482. Edward. says:

    Not you silly, I never criticise anybody where food and drink is concerned, it is extremely rude and it is bad form.
    No the other stuff, about him, that eejit silly….er and I think you are being a tad coy, my dear (big grin!!) a prerogative which you are allowed.


  483. Walt O'Brien says:

    Amanda says:
    July 1, 2010 at 4:14 am

    He shampoos it, coats it with mousse, then combs and blow-dries a part into it.

  484. Walt O'Brien says:

    Or maybe Tipper did. Or the butler. Or Pachauri. Or the Vienna Boys’ Choir.

    Which is why she is leaving.

  485. aurelian says:

    @Walt O’Brien July 1, at 4:20 am
    Maybe the weight gain will taper off logarithmically, like the effect of increasing CO3 levels.
    aurelian 30JUL10@1929BST

  486. Amanda says:


    I wonder whether, in avoiding the ‘green’ investments as she’d been doing, Msher had given thought to the points you raise about leftist-Muslim love-in bankrolling.

    As for Jewish liberals, you would *think* — would you not? — that one day they would have said to themselves: ‘They want the Jews dead. That means US. Perhaps our live-and-let-live attitude needs a slight adjustment’.

    At least as a Semper Fi guy you know how to work a gun.

  487. Amanda says:

    Walt, oh good Lord.

    The scary thing is that one can actually imagine it! However squeamishly.

    I do think you’re wrong about the assistance he got, though. He had it done at the pet groomer’s, and they strapped him in just like they do with dogs, at his request.

  488. Amanda says:

    Caridnor: a certain lightness of touch to the blog

    I like that, thank you. Would you contribute to my references if I decide to be gainfully employed? On second thought, better not — the boss will think: ‘read: she’s an airhead’.

  489. Amanda says:

    Guys, I’m just going to give you carte blanche now to correct my sentences as you see fit: grammar, spelling, the whole enchilada. My words show up in chunks after I’ve typed them so it’s hard to catch mistakes. Msher, who hates typos with a passion, would be drinking the (poisoned) Kool-Aid by now. Fortunately I’m not too bothered.

  490. Pointman says:

    Old Toad July 1, 2010 at 3:58 am

    “I’m not sure whether you mean more folks should leave the JD blog alone or whether James should stop blogging.”

    Stick with the blog if you want but what’s the point of a substantial post if it is shouldered barged off page 1 in an hour. If you want to do some facebook/chatroom, it’s as good as any. JD blogging or not is his choice. Given his hits profile compared to other journos on the DT, I’d be more bullish with management. It’s a simple conversation. “Earth to planet DT. Call off the dogs on my posters or I’ll move the fucking lot to my own blog. Take it or leave it. If I don’t hear from you by 4pm this afternoon, talk to the hand.”

    Patently, that conversation hasn’t happened or the hope of it succeeding at the DT is so minimal it will never happen. Put brutally, you guys are on your own there. There is no relief column and your Captain is absent.

    “You’ve made it clear that you yourself are disenchanted and probably find it strange that RR, Yaosxx, Crown and others are hanging on in there.”

    No. I’m not disenchanted, I’ve seen this movie before. I miss the club as much as anyone, believe me, but I know when you’ve got to move on. You guys hanging on in there I don’t find strange and I have no problem with it. I wouldn’t have expected otherwise from you. A good loyal heart is a rare commodity. We’re all free men and I know and like you all too well to have the impertince to stand in judgement on your decisions.

    Like Bogey said, we’ll always have Paris.


  491. Pointman says:

    In the name of God, in the time it took me to peck out a longish post, youse guys went from an extremely technical discussion of MHD’s (or whatever the Hell they were) to the exact coiffure of Al Gore’s pubic hair. Have a care or the Dame of Delingpole street will be nagging us agaon about decorum.


  492. Amanda says:

    the exact coiffure of Al Gore’s pubic hair

    But Pointman, if *we* don’t discuss it, who will? It’s freedom of speech in action. Consider it another blow for liberty.

    Wrong choice of word, perhaps.

  493. Pointman says:

    Amanda July 1, 2010 at 5:15 am

    Well it’s certainly below the belt I suppose … To hark back to the old days, didn’t we get into Lesbians trimming their bushes. I think I preferred that canard.


  494. Pointman says:

    Walt O’Brien July 1, 2010 at 4:26 am

    The rumour is it was the 49’s special team wot did it.


  495. crownarmourer says:

    Pointman yes I’ sure Lesbians enjoy gardening as well as the next person.

  496. crownarmourer says:

    Pointman yes I’m sure Lesbians enjoy gardening as well as the next person.

  497. Amanda says:

    Pointman: Nope, wasn’t me. That sounds more like Crown and Captain Sherlock’s line of inquiry….


    Ed: I got back on the computer (honest) specially to say that of course you would never be so rude, what do you mean by coy I’m a convent girl practically, and yes I realized my mistake afterwards, hence my second comment to you. And yes, I was very silly. Hope that clears things up.

  498. Amanda says:

    Sorry, didn’t mean to make the whole thing bold, just your name. As I said before: correct at will.

  499. Amanda says:

    Crown LOL!

    Actually a survey of British women done not so long ago reported that they preferring gardening to IT. And I’m not referring to Information Technology.

  500. Old Toad says:

    Pointman “Earth to planet DT – Call off the dogs on my posters or I’ll move the fucking lot to my own blog”. Always a temptation, but, rather as they now have in Detroit, I think that instead of a team of bloodhounds, James is up against a pack of feral beasts with no particular controller. El commandante has said that there is no editorial policy at the DT. I sense that there is no editorial control either.
    While James continues to garner 10 times as many responses as the next biggest blog, he will probably stick it out, even if a lot of it is just banter.
    You guys are sadly missed (even if he doesn’t put it that way) but with two books to get out by late July, he doesn’t need the hassle of ‘moving house’ right at this moment.

  501. Pointman says:

    Amanda July 1, 2010 at 5:47 am

    “they preferring gardening to IT” – I’d believe it. In the old days I used to knock about with a lot of women who had no problem with getting down and dirty. My taste has improved since then though or maybe the field has shrunk or maybe – Eh, well, never mind …


  502. crownarmourer says:

    Well it seems we have broken disqus on the DT blogs again, probably removing all our comments.
    Amanda and yes and a lot of women these days like to be fiddling around in other peoples bushes as well as their own.
    Gardening is a wonderful pastime I wonder if they will let me watch them at work.

  503. crownarmourer says:

    I think I have invented Garden pron.

  504. Amanda says:

    Old Toad:

    As our good friend Al Gore described it: ‘no controlling authority’. And he ought to know.

  505. msher says:

    This iis beautiful and is worthy of being quoted in full. Liberal hypocrisy, the gift that keeps on giving.

    “It turns out that San Francisco’s eco-conscious Mayor Gavin Newsom and his wife, Jennifer Siebel Newsom, own a piece of the deepwater rig at the center of the gulf oil disaster.

    According to the mayor’s most recently filed economic disclosure statement, last year the couple invested between $10,000 and $100,000 in Transocean Inc. – the company whose ruptured deepwater rig, which is leased to BP, is spewing millions of gallons of oil, endangering wildlife and beaches all along the Gulf Coast.

    Just last month, Newsom told the San Diego area East County Magazine that “the environmental catastrophe devastating the Gulf of Mexico is a tragic reminder of why we must take a stand against the oil companies and oppose all offshore drilling off California’s precious coast.”

    The Jennifer Lynn Siebel Trust also listed a half dozen other $10,000-to-$100,000 energy-related investments, including stock held last year in three companies involved in oil and gas exploration: Dorchester Minerals, Resolute Energy and Schlumberger Ltd.

    The portfolio also includes stock in Petroleo Brasileiro, Brazil’s largely state-owned oil company that has been looking to the United States to help finance exploration of a huge offshore oil discovery near Rio de Janeiro.

    In all, the couple’s 2009 trust portfolio listed 43 investments that, in addition to energy, included some of the biggest players in finance, pharmaceuticals, telecommunications and health care. The trust produced more than $100,000 in income last year for the couple, according to the report.

    The economic disclosure filing shows that the Transocean bond investment was made two months after Siebel turned 35 and had control of the trust. And it was eight months before the explosion on the company’s Deepwater Horizon rig killed 11 workers and resulted in the nation’s worst-ever oil spill.

    On Tuesday, Newsom campaign spokesman Dan Newman said “the mayor had no role administering his wife’s trust,” but stopped short of saying who did.

    Newman said the mayor’s “courage taking on Big Oil shows that (the trust) has no bearing on his consistent support for clean energy” and “solutions that would drive the value of dirty energy investments into the bottom of the ocean.”

    Presumably, those would be some of the very investments they own.”


  506. Walt O'Brien says:

    A fellow named Colonel “Jabo” Jabotinsky who was one of the founders of the State of Israel attempted to bring the Jews of Europe up to speed in the 1930’s based on the concept of understanding “They want the Jews dead. That means US. Perhaps our live-and-let-live attitude needs a slight adjustment.” He died in 1938 (or was it 1940?) of a heart attack trying to raise funds in the USA for self-defence for the European Jews. Then as now, liberal, live-and-let-die Jews said, “Well, Mr. Hitler is Fuhrer of Germany, but we can’t just leave.”

    No one will fight back until it is too late. We are dealing with the same morons who are open about their intentions (BTW, it is the Jews they want to take out first, everyone else is next) and always have been, yet no on ewants to listen.

    Crownarmourer, a remarkable invention indeed. You should get it patented and can it. Erm, maybe I need to revise the wording there somewhat… Just keep them away from the large carrots and cucumbers and zucchini.

    I am not surprised at it “breaking down” again. They won’t spring for a proper security nor industrial-grade IT person, thus saving 3% over the industrial option yet losing 100% of their blogspace providing capabilities. This is presuming the “breakdown” wasn’t intentional (and possibly, again).

    Maybe it shouldn’t be called the DT. It should be called GM or British Leyland LOL!

    Doubleplus ungood at the DT Ministry of Truth. Time to edit history again, apparently, except Big Brother isn’t watching us, we are watching Big Brother. Big Brother is now an entertainment medium. :>P

    The DT is getting squidgy twee for the same reason the greentards are: the broker they get and the faster they move down the social scale, the more behavioural rules they set for others and the more “fill out the forms or we kill you” they become. It’s called displacement in the face of imminent failure and ruin, and was really the cause of and is the main cause of anti-Jewish sentiment as well as practically every other form of ethnic strife. Kinda like the guy we had in the barracks overseas who had insomnia (and really bad nerves, for good reasons, as had we all) and he got up and clicked on the lights, screaming “If I can’t sleep, nobody sleeps!”

    You don’t want to know what happened next LOL!

  507. Pointman says:

    Old Toad July 1, 2010 at 5:48 am

    Like I said, my friend, you’ve a good loyal heart and that’s always been a rare and much abused thing. Post here, there or in both, nobody here would think the less of you or is asking for some exclusive alligiance. Certainly not me nor I think Ozboy. I know you’re trying to build bridges but I went early and with regret. I see things early and didn’t want to hang around for the death rattle. Cowardly and selfish on my part, I know. Wagons westward.

    I wrote to a friend after the Disqus change that I felt like a villager coming home after a weekend away to find the village bull-dozed. It was like looking at Hiroshima or Nagasaki – just some rectangular foundations where houses of friends had been.

    James has a young family and the DT I suspect, is the main source of income. I don’t expect him or more importantly them, to take a financial bullet for AGW. There’s always another day and if the DT can’t look after their ‘draws’, it’ll rebound on them in the end.

    The Irish got it right though it took a few hundred years to come true – Tiocfaidh ár lá
    Our day will come. It’s just a battle but it’s not the last battle.


  508. msher says:


    “. Msher, who hates typos with a passion, would be drinking the (poisoned) Kool-Aid by now.”

    I hate typos with a passion because I have always made so many of them and metarphorically speaking, I am always searching for the poisoned Kool-Aid!

  509. Pointman says:

    crownarmourer July 1, 2010 at 6:00 am

    ‘I think I have invented Garden pron.’

    To pre-empt Msher here – are we talking a flower garden here or is it predominantly vegeatable based? Are there any sh**p grazing in it? Is Cap’n allowed in it if there are apple trees?


  510. Pointman says:

    BTW Ozboy, if that Cap’n fucker appears over here, ban him straight away. Turn a blink eye to libertarianism, remember the apple crumble as they say in San Antonio.


  511. crownarmourer says:

    Pointman then the Irish buggered it up and joined the EU, first strongbow now Brussels force of habit I suppose.

  512. Pointman says:

    msher July 1, 2010 at 6:32 am

    How’s the wording of the protest letter to the DT going?


  513. crownarmourer says:

    pointman it can be any garden you want, sheep are optional they are good for keeping the lawn mowed.

    Walt as for the Jewish Liberals well evolution always weeds out the dumb ones eventually there will be no such thing as a Jewish Liberal maybe lots of Jewish “you and whose army mutha F*******” types left.

  514. crownarmourer says:

    pointman….How’s the wording of the protest letter to the DT going?

    Hmm lets see “Stop the moderating we know where you live, where your families live and where you work, have a nice day your friends….fabian_solution, newsjunkie, duckham”

    Well maybe not

  515. Pointman says:

    crownarmourer July 1, 2010 at 6:46 am

    Just having a bit of cruel fun. I like to remind putative self-appointed ‘leaders’ of their legging it when the bouncing helmed dropped in their laps …


  516. msher says:


    This has been my first break in a day devoted to real world deadlines. Haven’t had a chance to even think about it (or pubic hair, a subject a certain Anita Hill should be consulted about), and am going back to the real world deadlines in another couple of moments.

    But your question is somewhat confusing: I hope I left it that I don’t think I’m the person to write any such protest, ESPECIALLY if the posters here haven’t reached a consensus that there should be a protest and what the protest should consist of. I’m in a very small minority in being fine with (reasonable and even-handed) censorship of what I consider abusive posts. I don’t presume to speak for you and the others who vehemently resent any moderation. And in any event, I read your subsequent posts as thinking such a protest is pointless.

  517. Pointman says:

    crownarmourer says: July 1, 2010 at 6:36 am

    “Pointman then the Irish buggered it up and joined the EU, first strongbow now Brussels force of habit I suppose.”

    If you want to understand the Irish, study the battle of Coalharbour in the civil war (1861-1865). The details are hazy but Grant ran thirteen or fourteen charges against the stone wall and they all had their asses shot off in full view of the watching army. In the end he gathered his commanders and asked for one more go. Nobody was up for it but in the end the ‘fighting’ Irish volunteered. They got the closest to the wall before they too got eviserated.

    The men behind the wall, three musketeers deep, belonged to the 2nd Georgia or Alabama, one or the other if memory serves. The only thing you needed to be to get into that regiment was Irish. Watching that charge, Lee made that a remark about it being good that war was a terrible thing for you could fall in love with it.

    Grant never conceded that Coalharbour was a mistake but he never repeated that manoeuver for the rest of the war. When the Yanks shot the heart out of Pickett’s charge at Gettysburg, they chanted ‘Coalharbour, Coalharbour’ at the retreating Rebs.


  518. Pointman says:

    msher says: July 1, 2010 at 6:57 am

    Yeah, yeah.


  519. realityreturns says:

    Hi Guys

    I went out this evening (civic duties) so I have not been around. Is it really true that Brown Bess has had one the DT’s stinky emails too? That is incredible, Brown Bess is no bully in any way. I can, I know, be impolite in the face of troll ridicule and venom but not BB. Framed…..stitched -up…….

    There is something afoot against the old regulars and it’s not 12 inches.

  520. Pointman says:

    Afraid so RR. Lucky MOTM is on holiday or he’d have got ‘served’ too. They’re rounding up the rearguard I’m afraid.


  521. crownarmourer says:

    Pointman I never ever said they are not a brave people, however charging straight into combat directly at the enemy is a celtic thing to do, whether it is the romans or knights, or the new model army it generally leads to annihilation. The Irish have had very few brilliant commanders like U’Neil to lead them who were smart enough to know that guerilla tactics work better than charging straight at the enemy.

  522. Walt O'Brien says:

    Pointman, crownarmourer and msher:

    At least we’ve a fair view of the extent to which the greentards are mobilized. Amazing.

    I think, again, this is one of those problems which solves itself. History is pretty good at minding its own children (the “you and what army” types are the only European Jews who survived the Holocaust, which sort of explains current and hopefully all future IDF strategic planning nicely as well as where the Jewish state came from in the first place—you might like the videos at http://www.latma.co.il especially the Faux News talking heads), and I rather suspect that when everyone is watching the windmills falling to rust or being diamond-sawed down for scrap by the homeless just to make rent, there will be bazillions of really angry people with large clubs or reasonable facsimiles thereof looking for any slouchers in John Lennon glasses wearing a greentard T-shirt, sandals and a beard.

    Here are cartoons made by the few very talented Jewish animators who made it out of Hitler’s Germany, and who were cherry-picked for exit visas (which were paid for by bribes to the office Eichmann ran) by Mr. Fleischer, as well as from the Reich “protectorates” of Poland and Czechoslovakia. He had thousands to choose from, he had enough for 100 or 200 (George Pal was one of them).

    I see us as escapees from the madness as well. Let the Duckies and Grotcrotches and the rest of the “new enlightened children” of the Greentard Fatherland enjoy their nasty dreams while we live out our real lives in honesty and integrity.

  523. Pointman says:

    crownarmourer July 1, 2010 at 7:37 am

    It’s nothing to do with bravery (everybody knew who everybody was on either side of the stone wall), it’s about a certain type of maniac contradiction. They were oppressed for 500 years by the a foreign power and never hated them but yet still cared about the English language to the point where they’ve won more Nobel prizes in English literature than the English. Go figure.


  524. Walt O'Brien says:

    And if that’s too twee for you, here’s “Hard-Drinkin’ Lincoln,” which goes a long way toward explaining where the Holocaust came from in the first place LOL! Too funny.


  525. ScouseBilly says:

    Walt, how true. You are no doubt aware the EU is a NSDAP construct:


  526. Edward. says:

    realityreturns says:
    July 1, 2010 at 7:23 am
    It’s all a crock RR, brown bess is a civilised poster, so are you, I don’t get it but then I was completely turned off by the format, the Post by Dave Edinburgh was a blinder but soon enough (too bloody soon) it was relegated, not many will see it now, cos like I said it is just too much like hard work.
    There is no continuity of posts, where a comment can be viewed and remarked on or slaughtered as necessary, I miss it, you’ve remained loyal and I salute you…….. but I think you are being pushed out and it is deliberate and wholly one sided.

    Good to see you here! – Although I suspect it isn’t quite rumbustious enough for thee.
    Ozboy is a patient lad, God knows what he thinks of some of it…………?

    God!! oh my God! – here though is something to cheer us all up!!

    Wow, were the authors of this rot pissed?
    Or is it back to April the 1st?


  527. Walt O'Brien says:

    If you ask me, I think the DT advertisers are beating up on the DT to get JD to pipe down or they will pull their advertising accounts. I fink especially the clothing and rock and roll and cinema promo and advert folks in particular. Duh. Megaduh.

    “Advertisers don’t do that! It’s unethical.” Right. :>p

    Bono: one world, two chords, no brain. I betcha. Betcha ten pounds of spuds and a gallon of EightAce.

  528. ScouseBilly says:

    The subject of GE/JD’s last piece on the Panorama programme, What’s Up With the Weather was produced by Mike Rudin who has form for conspiracy rebuttal (9/11 and 7/7).

    I posted this at the DT – note continuation of the Germany theme 😉

    Another comment aimed at BBC producer, Mike Rudin:

    “91. At 02:26am on 13 Jul 2008, frenchplasticenemice wrote:
    I’ve read that the Home Secretary has absolute control over the content of broadcast media in Britain though I haven’t managed to locate the relevant part of broadcasting law. The BBC is clearly under duress if you can call it that but this sort of programme making is indefensible. Staff could always refuse to cooperate or resign. I’m assuming they’re not under threat of death (remember Nuremberg BBC).”


  529. Walt O'Brien says:

    No. It’s got to be Sir Mick. I bet all it took was one minute on the blower or a short chat at the club (White’s or the Carlton?).

    You know what the revenge of history is, don’t you? You turn into your parents. In the case of superannuated lefto’s, They turn into the same sort of Establishment pigfarts they so bitterly hated when you were a teenager, back when they knew it all better than anyone else who ever lived, just like yoof today.

  530. Pointman says:

    Walt, Billy,

    Evening lads. it’s been a tad down here tonight. Time for a bit of Franco-Algerian bopping http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7DbFYsi9iSg&a=2kVQulx-jTw&playnext_from=ML

    This kicks the Clash’s version into touch. Fill your shot glass and have a bop!


  531. Pointman says:

    Edward. July 1, 2010 at 7:58 am

    By the time I got back to reread DaveEdinburgh’s post he was on page 3. I left a message to double post here. It’s my nature. I always like to encourage talent. Who knows?


  532. Walt O'Brien says:

    ScouseBilly says:
    July 1, 2010 at 7:55 am

    Thanks, Scousebilly. Great reading. Amazing, but not surprising.

    Germany: the Portal to Hell, open since the Romans first popped in for a look-see.

  533. Pointman says:

    ScouseBilly July 1, 2010 at 7:55 am

    “NSDAP construct” – not many people know what those initials stand for without a google or could use them so artfully. The cream has definitely moved.


  534. ScouseBilly says:

    Pointy – yep, I’m a big fan of Rachid – ah brings back memories of a CD binge-buying fest at the Megastore on the Champs d’E.

    Speaking inspiring music – note how the media seem to be bigging up one of the least PC people on the planet, which I find encouraging, please don’t let the Germans screw that up too:


  535. Pointman says:

    ScouseBilly July 1, 2010 at 8:17 am

    Billy, at last. Someone who appreciates rai music. It would have to be a scouser bugger. Nowt wrong with just enjoying yourself and fuck the Brahamins of taste in London.


  536. ScouseBilly says:

    Walt O’Brien says: July 1, 2010 at 8:13 am

    Yeah, astonishing stuff. Wonder if you saw that each section of Walter Funk’s speech/lecture mapped almost identically on to the chapter headings of the Baaaastricht Treaty.

    Pointman, lol there was me trying to be pc myself thinking NSDAP was less offensive to the casual, anosognosic reader 😉

  537. ScouseBilly says:

    Pointman says: July 1, 2010 at 8:24 am

    Bet you got into Spiral (the TV series), then?

    Slightly funked up live version of a classic:

  538. Pointman says:

    Walt, you sound up mate and I’m glad. There’s work to be done. We both went ‘walk about’ for a bit as they say in Ozboy’s Bar & Grill.


  539. crownarmourer says:

    Walt as for turning into your own parents yep happens alright I am now everything I promised myself not to be but being a parent kind of does that to you.
    It was funny to hear my stepson who three months ago was a rebel because he’s bored who knew it all, spout verbatim exactly what I had said about him about a workshy, lazy, sleeping in all day not getting bathed, not paying a nominal rent, eating my food, not cleaning up after himself.
    Well he moved out and tried to help a friend in need well karma bit him on the rear as he got a lodger who paid no bills ate his food and was shy about looking for work.
    He realized this the moment he became a father himself.
    All you can do is grin and laugh.

  540. izen says:

    Still lurking…

    Obviously I don’t have the same investment, or belief in the value of the GE/JD blog beyond the fact I found it an entertaining place to post…
    But I would endorse the general opinion that the changes, and moderation, are the form and style of the blog away from being a major media source of the ‘denialsphere’s’ latest talking points. It saved doing the rounds of WUWT, climateaudit, bishophill, etc…

    This MAY be an intentional result of DT editorial policy… but I doubt it.
    There is a growing squeamishness in web circles about causing offence, I posted here earlier about a censorship problem a (warmist!) blogger had which resulted in the total removal of a thread when one poster complained to wordpress about a possible libel.
    Business interest who allow public comment are getting increasingly worried about any association they may gain with legally actionable content. I suspect from the media perspective it is preferable to lose any credibility a blog may have gained by its style and participants, than lose corperate credibility if a successful judgment is made against them. Or even the possibility of having to pull an entire discussion makes them favour a ridiculously timid and heavy-handed censoring practice.
    In an increasingly litigious society its a game that both sides can play, but perhaps the moderators suspect one side may reach for the legal option more often than the other.
    In my opinion it is AWAYS a bad option. the super-injunction has to be one of the most egrigious legal instruments EVER allowed.

    But then anything on the ‘net’ is written in water…

    Re the Al Gore stuff…
    Never liked him since Tipper was involved in the ‘parental advisory’ sticker nonsense for LP’s… (ask grandad if you don’t know about that). That sort of puritanism always goes with hidden carnality.
    As the late, great FZ, a target of Tipper, said-
    “There’s a big difference between kneeling down and bending over…”

    As I think Edward noticed, I got bored the other evening and made a few posts on the Moonbat blog about the Leakegate and the ST retraction.
    Doubt I’ll do that again, I’d just got a few responses to my usual pomposity and condescension, went to post and….
    Comments are closed for this thread.
    I didn’t realise that he closes a thread at noon on the day he publishes his next article. So in mid-argument, with unresolved points floating around it all gets frozen.
    The frustration !! worse than the catholic method of birth control…

    I did get to use my (ahem) brilliant avater logo though…-g- s omething I haven’t managed on wordpress, it won’t let me register as izen, says theres another, but I cant find any posts, really dont want to change my ‘name’ after over a decade of use, does anybody know if you can register as -:anyoldname:- and then change your screen name to something that is blocked for registation???

    I am pretty adaptable to any environment if I want to but, if you want to see an izen in its ‘natural’ habit….-

    Probably should break this up before rambling onto other subjects like MHD and cogent, or even contingent engineering responses to climate change from whatever cause…
    Must try and be less prolix…-grin-

    A musical brother recently pointed me to this, I bet someone here already is a fan….

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQ2Q2D3G6Rs_link block to avoid embedding I hope!

  541. crownarmourer says:

    Pointman everyone knows what NSDAP stands for there leader was a nice man loved children, animals, didn’t smoke, and a vegetarian very left leaning politically.

  542. Pointman says:

    ScouseBilly July 1, 2010 at 8:30 am

    ‘Bet you got into Spiral (the TV series), then?’ – No, I’m crap at TV nowadays, never heard of it but I’m going to hunt up the DVDs straight away.


  543. ScouseBilly says:

    Pointy – you can d/l them with eng.sub files at isohunt I think it was.
    I know, only a Scouser…

  544. Old Toad says:

    Ozboy.Just got back from trawling the pubs of Worcester with ‘brownbess’, the Plough is much better than the Farriers, no loud music. We should have gone there to start with.
    He’s quite upset that he should be attacked for bullying, as he certainly never has, in any of his posts. This indicates that something quite sinister is going on at the DT.
    I do think you should now start a new blog. Might I therefore offer an epitaph for this one. – ” e’s not a God-Emperor, e’s just a naughty boy !”

  545. Pointman says:

    izen July 1, 2010 at 8:38 am

    Is that really your space? http://open2.net/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=28

    If so, brave of you to post it. Thank you. I’m not invested in JD but in humans.


  546. Pointman says:

    ScouseBilly July 1, 2010 at 8:49 am

    ‘I know, only a Scouser…’ – why is everyone on this blog so fuckin’ understated. Every time I scratch ’em, there are too many accomplished people. I’m your basic peasant, an edjit. Help!


  547. ScouseBilly says:

    Izen, you make a good point: JD/GE’s used to be a digest of the latest info, even more in the comments than the lead article.

    Perhaps it was becoming the internet equivalent of the original coffee house and I suspect Walt and Old Toad are both right. The people most heavily exposed by the myth are highly placed and well connected.

    But, hey, we’re not and we don’t need a figurehead, televisual or not.

    We have no common purpose other than to inform, discuss and entertain each other.
    It will be interesting to see how Oz’s place develops because the DT are sure giving it momentum.

  548. Pointman says:

    OldToad, BrownBess – Don’t take it personal, it’s just games and the opposition are not hamperd by fairness. Forget reviewing the content or tone of your posts, their strategy is quite simple – no platform for ‘denialists’ and the tactics say at any cost and by any means. Information war. Wanna enlist in the pushback?


  549. ScouseBilly says:

    Pointman says: July 1, 2010 at 9:06 am

    You are far from that. The internet is still very young and it’s time the oldies started to use it to restore some sanity.

    I read this fabulous comment on your linked piece at the NYT:

    PaulaNorth Adams, MAJune 24th, 20101:38 pm I’m a community college English teacher, and I must cope, every day, with essays that are so poorly written that they are painful to read. Many of these essays include sentences that are not only grammatically incorrect, but are incoherent. It took me awhile (five or ten years) to realize that most students don’t write such sentences because they are careless or because they are somehow inherently unable (in other words, too stupid) to do better. They are making these mistakes because they are completely unaware that they are making these mistakes. Their K-12 teachers didn’t have the time or, perhaps, the ability to teach them how to write clear, meaningful, and properly structured sentences. Some middle school, high school, and even college teachers are so hell-bent on building student “self-esteem” (and avoiding parental wrath) that they will not even mark, let alone correct, the egregious spelling and grammatical errors that riddle most student work, and today’s students do not enjoy reading books, so they have no models for good writing. The first time one of my students gets an essay back and sees the circles and corrections, he or she sulks, but the next essay is a little bit better, and the one after that is a bit better, and so on. When teachers point out the errors and explain how to fix them, most students will start gaining the ability, on their own, to recognize and correct their mistakes.

    I am only a lowly community college English teacher, not a mathematician, logician, or philosopher, but I suspect that the “unknown unknowns” that exist beyond my sphere of consciousness are infinite. Encountering “unknown unknowns” is called discovery, and it is one of the things that makes life joyous, wonderful, meaningful, and worth living, but, of course, “unknown unknowns” can be dangerous. I’m not a scientist or evolutionary biologist, but I suspect that encountering “unknown unknowns” and then grappling with them is called evolution and, in some cases, survival. That bank robber “evolved,” if only a little, on the day that he discovered that the lemon juice did not conceal him. Education, which expands our awareness and consciousness, helps us apprehend, or intuit, “unknown unknowns.” This education must include the fostering and development of imagination because imagination is the locus of expanded consciousness. Einstein’s extraordinary imagination was the key to his ability to “think outside the box.” That’s why poetry is so important!

    In addition, if you become too complacent and have few problems to solve, your mind might get flabby, and your ability to see beyond the end of your nose might diminish; thus the need for newspapers and crossword puzzles.

    But please do not correct my grammar and spelling errors; who has time to proofread a comment?! 🙂

  550. Pointman says:

    Time for some music.

    Let’s go with Benny http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4rifhroClGI&NR=1


  551. izen says:

    @ Pointman says:
    Is that really your space?

    Not MINE, its the Open Universtity/BBC forum.
    The Darwin section and some of the other bits (science/tech, philosophy) are just a favourite watering hole.

    It is HEAVILY moderated, any personal remarks get cut, persist and then you are out,
    Makes for greater creativity in the insult construction department.

  552. Ozboy says:

    G’day all

    Have read right through last night’s (my time) debate; sounds like the blog record of RR should be safe, and JD himself is on the case as well. I wouldn’t be surprised if the heat generated over here had something to do with it. I’ll stick my own head in over there later.

    We should still keep some options in reserve if they really go and do something stupid; at least that’s my opinion.

    A further reminder, the Writing Competition closes in two days. Don’t miss out 💡

  553. ScouseBilly says:

    Pointman says: July 1, 2010 at 9:26 am

    To restore balance, admittedly to a debate some 70 years ago, this is a must see documentary – part 4 gives a good flavour of it:

  554. Edward. says:

    Pointman says:
    July 1, 2010 at 8:11 am
    By all means pointy, he is a fine polemicist agin the perceived ‘orthodoxy’.
    He is familiar though, I can’t place it, I am sure he was a JD contributor and had to change names possibly I deem (it could be another blog, there are some damn fine writers and anti warmists out there).

    Had to post this, I can ‘feel’ the girls umbrage she is positively brimming with righteous indignation – “how dare they! How dare they question the world consensus?”

    ‘ Bureau of Meteorology climatologist Agata Imielska said climate-change deniers should not be “cherry-picking information” but should look at all the facts.

    “If you have one day that has been quite cold — even the coldest on record — but then the rest of the days, the remaining 364 days, have all been above average, you’re really skewing information and not looking at the bigger picture,” she said.’

    She wants, no needs to ‘ave a gander at the Antarctic sea ice figures etc, or take a look at last years winter in the Northern hemisphere – ask a farmer from Mongolia how cold it was.
    “That’s weather not climate”(whatever) – I can imagine hearing her say.

    Ho hum,
    Time to retire, bon nuit mes amis!


  555. ScouseBilly says:

    Just posted by BillyB over there:

    The best way to ruin a good blog is to fill it up with irrelevant noise.
    Mission accomplished.

    Now I checked his profile that says he joined 3 weeks 2 days ago.
    When I checked newsjunkies a couple of days ago, he joined 3 weeks 4 days ago.

    Ok thats only 2 dots joined but it might be worth looking at a few other troll profiles.
    I do find the just over 3 weeks ago interesting, deliberate mobilisation?

  556. Pointman says:

    ScouseBilly July 1, 2010 at 9:24 am

    I don’t know if you’ve read Fahrenheit 451 by Ray Bradbury but at one point an elderly Lit. professor is trying to explain under extreme pressure to an ignoramus who really wants to know but who’s never read one, why people prefer to be burned alive with their books than give them up, why Literature is important. He tries a few approaches but finally settles on something simple the man may understand- it’s the number of square inches of reality on a page. I couldn’t top that. That comment falls into the square inches definition.

    There’s things us oldies can do, are you up for it?


  557. ScouseBilly says:

    Pointman says: July 1, 2010 at 9:53 am

    Oh, yes. I’m up for it and you’ve reminded me to acquire a copy of said masterpiece 😉

    Right now I’m too tired really and have to cook for the ladies tomorrow as it’s Thursday (long story – another time) but would like to share thoughts with all here in time. This mottley collective is growing it seems.

    I’ve been considering global/trans-national political alternatives for some time.
    Always look to history: our parties and movements all started in talking shops of one sort or another… Maybe Oz’s place becomes a C21 libertarian coffee house bringing people together who may in turn spawn who knows what.

    FWIW the JD/GE blog has a feel of Colditz about it right now – the few good guys still captive doing all they can to undermine the goons.

  558. Pointman says:

    ScouseBilly July 1, 2010 at 10:15 am

    “I’m up for it” – HUA.


  559. Walt O'Brien says:

    I also fink the DT biz paradigm wizard and resident top senior editorial f*ckwit doesn’t know whether to grab his arse or his ankles, as what all this mess comes down to is this: “Does the DT want the adclicks and the blog readership and associated increased circulation or do they want to keep their direct advertising revenues?” Don’t think they can have both.

    If you are a marketing shrink from the planet MegaBucks, this is also the optimum “real-world” model for evaluating the behaviour of InterNet social interaction. That little prick who owns Arsebook probably has a ringside seat at the DT blogspace as a lurker, and he is probably paying for the privilege of sitting in and trading notes and commentary with the moderators and webmeisters, etc., etc. There’s boodle of the ready in industrial p*ssology as it relates to marketing. IT dogturds have got prizes more lucrative than the Nobel for their work in this area of consumer/business interaction and relational analysis, and rightly so: you crack a paradigmatic nut this huge, and making money online is a flick of the switch.

    Not surprised at the turmoil overall in the Zeitgeist of these days. As the Second Wave hits, my guess is there will be wave upon wave of political crackdowns as the gubmints get more and more stoopid, understaffed and cranky. I think it is quite funny a million and a half gubmit dogturds are to be laid off by the UK Coalition. Bwahahaha! It would be fun having a former bureaucratic brown-nose squeegeeing one’s windshield at an intersection, if you don’t get the electric chair for doing that in the UK these days if’n yer skint. If you feel you may be getting the boot after 20 years of faithless service to one’s water cooler with the Gubmint, yeah, I think you could get to be a bit of a nasty character in not too long a time.

    Even the online Viz has toned down considerably. What gives, I wonder.

  560. ScouseBilly says:

    Ok. I’m turning in. Interesting discussions ahead.

    Muy Buenas Noches

  561. Pointman says:

    Walt O’Brien July 1, 2010 at 10:25 am

    “what gives” – they’ve all been house-trained, like they’re trying to do to the rearguard at the DT. You should conform a bit more. I offer the advice but I won’t be doing it either. WTH. It’s a cultural thing with a lot of Europeans, it used to be called Appeasement but that’s not popular nowadays. There’s probably a new word for it.


  562. Walt O'Brien says:

    The other bit I think is interesting is that I don’t think this type event is typical of a blogspace “police” problem. It’s one thing when it is a bunch of 10 to 14 year old’s dissing each other in joyful abandon online until the moderator Sister Mary Elephant whacks a few of them on the knuckles with her ruler. This here-and-now is between people not necessarily of substance and power but certainly representative of a substantial part of the electorate and possessed of a very highly desirable demographic from a media marketing standpoint.

    This event’s atypical status is probably another source of turmoil to the DT and other press organizations as this could very well happen all across the board relating to other issues to social networking as a whole. It must be a bit frightening, in a way, to find out how little one controls one’s own readership, if you own a newspaper. It’s like being a sermonizing priest showing up for church one day to deliver the sermon only to find there are cliques of pew-warmers paying tithes looking to leave the church altogether over a single issue.

    I still think the consumer burnout factor is going to kick in whenever most people’s economic status tanks across the board vis a vis social networking online. Theoretically, Twitter tweets could turn into splatted robins on the windshield of history and Arsebook pages could look like the Farm Security Bureau photos Margaret Bourke-White took of Okie Dustbowl refugees in the 1930’s. There’s too much serious jing involved for the media folks to allow that to happen. We are a sort of “first fruits” of a possible new trend, methinks. Or not.

  563. Ozboy says:

    Well they’ve got around to me too… a comment I posted on the DT-JD blog a bit over an hour ago is now gone. It came up when I posted it; I didn’t refer to anyone else, in an either positive or negative way – but I included two links. One was a link to a cold-snap story here in Australia. The other was a link to my writing competition, entries for which close on Friday. It can’t be that, surely – David Hawkins has been promoting his Sherlock website there since the dawn of time? Or do they see this place as some sort of threat???

    Beats me. I’m not wasting my time posting there again if they do that.

  564. Pointman says:

    Walt O’Brien July 1, 2010 at 10:43 am

    We’re something new but quintessentially old. We stayed with them as long as they represented us (which meant they thought they owned us in the old paradigm). Let’s do our own thing. Who’s stopping us? You up for it?


  565. Walt O'Brien says:

    Pointman says:
    July 1, 2010 at 10:43 am

    I don’t know if the word Appeasement is appropriate. I think the concept is more along the lines of Europeans (as opposed to English who are NOT Europeans at all, to my mind, they tend to make sense most of the time, even if it is bad or non-sense) not being able to differentiate fashion from the substantive. AGW is fashion, reality’s not LOL! It’s always been that way in Europe, too, for political movements since Ogg and Oof crawled out of their cave somewhere near Avignon after one of them cut off a finger while trying to make a painting of their hand on the wall. It just seems Europe takes serious stuff as a joke but promotes the stupid stuff as from-on-high imparted wisdom behind the beyond from underneath the Pyramids or something.

    Ozboy, who knows? The worst thing we have done is made a relatively insignificant blogspace perpetrated by a relative newcomer to the DT tucked away in a corner of dozens of other immensely more interesting subjects and elevated it to the status of most-read and entered blogspace in the entire DT. you’d think the chatty “celebrity stars” crap would be the most frequented blogspace. Journalists have no business covering the engineering beat if they aren’t one anyway. Now we are stuck with 5 billion warmists none of whom can change the tyre on their Prius without the use of three assistant consultants telling the power generation community what’s what, as if they knew WTF they were talking about and who they were talking to. AGW meister shysters are shades of Savanarola and other masters of manipulating mass hysteria.

  566. memoryvault says:


    I go away for a few short weeks to play with a big train set in the Pilbara, and when I get back the blogosphere’s been turned upside down and inside out. What happened?

    Surely this isn’t can’t just be about DT changing its format and JD (aka GE) exposing himself as the rather egotistical twit he always was (occupational requirement of writers, I’m afraid – together with a large measure of masochism).

    The idea of us having a blog to meet and share was being bandied about long before any of these things happened. It was a great idea back then and it remains a great idea now. Thanks to Ozboy for making it happen.

    Thanks also to Blackswan for tracking me down (via snailmail no less) and telling me about Ozboy’s home away from home.

    It’s good to be back – if finding myself in an entirely new place is coming “back”. Still feels like home.

    A formal and very warm welcome to LibertyGibbert, MV. Good to see you back in one piece. Your insight and expertise will be an invaluable contribution to our little refuge in the Antipodes – Oz

  567. Walt O'Brien says:

    Pointman, it all comes down to what we want to do with it. Had you a scope of work in mind? Also, how do we pay for it?

  568. Amanda says:

    Oh my god, it’s Memoryvault. Goodness. All we need is Clothilde and Rifleman and then it will seem like old times!

  569. Pointman says:

    RR, BB et al,

    Hal’s take on the DT blog http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ukeHdiszZmE


  570. Amanda says:

    Also, I wonder how Oriphus is getting on with his mushrooms….

  571. Amanda says:

    the rather egotistical twit he always was

    Sshhh! Old Toad and Brownbess may be earwigging.

    Let’s admit that we also rather like the chap, as well. If I were James D. (a presumptuous if, I know) I’d be wating to chuck the whole blogging thing in right now (cash/career considerations apart). I can’t claim to ‘channel’ him of course, but if he feels anything like we old regulars do, I’m sure he misses the old days when we fought like billy-o and had our night shifts and generally had lots of fun.

  572. Pointman says: