A Neglected And Forgotten Resource

You know, I listen to your tales of Britain’s ongoing Euro-woes with a certain sense of wonder. Nothing in my own Antipodean experience compares to the kind of legal and bureaucratic subjugation that seems to have infected the UK from Bruxelles these days. No aspect of life over there seems too small to be the subject of “minute and irresponsible interference” from a group of faceless Eurocrats. When Britain ratified the treaty of Lisbon in 2008, I wonder if most of its citizens realised the extent to which their island nation was relinquishing its sovereignty.

Reading how one Brussels mandarin apparently spent a weekend on the Riviera gleefully dismembering the map of Britain in pursuit of some ill-defined European integration, one gets the strong whiff of a more sinister agenda at work.

The final straw for me came when I read this story proclaiming that British retailers would no longer be allowed by Brussels to sell eggs by the dozen! No, in Europe all food products must be sold by weight. In kilograms, s’il vous plait.

And the incredible thing for me is, Europe doesn’t really want Britain in its little club—except perhaps to eliminate it as a potential source of competition. A fundamentally different outlook on life, different languages, culture and historical development of institutions such as the law, government and church, its modern sense of communalism and above all, a horror of war and a determination to avoid it at any price, appear to set Europe apart from an historically independent Britain. For its part, millenia of antipathy and conflict leaves many Britons with an innate mistrust of all things European; to them, the “garlic breath of duplicity and cowardice” across la Manche represents a force better left to itself.

Now, a few months ago, in response to a similar topic being discussed on a DT JD thread, I posted the following (I’m quoting myself from memory):

Imagine for a moment that, as an alternative to the EU, Britain stood at the head of an organisation much larger than Europe? One that contained one-third of the world’s population, one-quarter of the world’s land area, mineral resources and Gross Domestic Product, all time zones and climate variations; one which, were it ever to become a formal trading bloc, would dwarf Europe and even the USA, and would rival East Asia for economic dominion?

Fantasy? Or a neglected and forgotten resource staring you in the face?

There are always alternatives.

I was referring, of course, to the Commonwealth of Nations, known prior to 1949 as the British Commonwealth of Nations and before that, the British Empire. My comment at the time received such strong and even emotional responses, particularly from British posters, that I thought I would set down my thoughts on the subject in a little more detail.

The British Empire, following three centuries of expansion, reached its zenith in the first decade of the twentieth century. Like the great empires which preceded it throughout history, centrifugal force, the desire of national autonomy and expansionist policies of rival imperial powers at the periphery were the driving forces in its ultimate decline. Some mark the death of Queen Victoria in 1901 as the beginning of the end. I prefer 1910, the year the gross domestic product of the United States surpassed that of Britain, supplanting it as the world’s largest economy. Subsequent twentieth century historical milestones across the world: the fall of Singapore, the independence movement in the subcontinent, the abdication of authority to the UN in the British Palestinian Mandate and, most significantly, the humiliation in the Suez, signalled to the world that Britain was no longer in a position to directly sustain and control a global empire.

In contrast to a centrally ruled empire, the modern Commonwealth of Nations is a free association of 54 member nations, generally former dominions or colonies of the British Empire. The British monarch is recognised as the titular head of the Commonwealth, even by those member nations, such as India, which are republics. The purpose of the Commonwealth is set out in the 1971 Singapore Declaration. Article 6 of this document probably best explains to you the basis of my own interest:

We believe in the liberty of the individual, in equal rights for all citizens regardless of race, colour, creed or political belief, and in their inalienable right to participate by means of free and democratic political processes in framing the society in which they live. We therefore strive to promote in each of our countries those representative institutions and guarantees for personal freedom under the law that are our common heritage.

One can imagine your average Eurocrat recoiling in horror from such ringing words, in the much same way his continental fellowman Count Dracula might at the sight of a garlic-necklaced peasant, wooden stake in one hand and an oversize carpenter’s mallet in the other .

I would argue that the Commonwealth is a far more natural grouping, not merely for Britain but all the English-speaking peoples of the world (I leave Ireland and the USA to one side for the moment) than an amalgam such as the EU, united as it is primarily by geographic happenstance. Given that a nation’s peace and prosperity are contingent on individual liberty and universal acceptance of the rule of law as enshrined in the Singapore Declaration, it is my belief that a non-exclusive Commonwealth free-trade zone should be a policy objective of every Commonwealth government, starting with the United Kingdom and Australia.

Currently however, this is far from the case. In the United Kingdom, the three major parties pay little more than vestigial or pro forma attention to the Commonwealth. The Conservatives might have been expected to emphasise the relationship, and at one time they certainly did; but no longer. Their foreign policy statement vaguely refers to the deepening of alliances beyond Europe and North America, but does not mention the Commonwealth at all; Labour’s foreign policy mentions it only once, burying the relationship among their great international institutions and alliances – the European Union, NATO, the United Nations, the Commonwealth, the G8 and G20. The Liberal Democrats appear to regard the Commonwealth as a positive embarrassment; their policy document, Britain In The World, mentions the Commonwealth not at all, but pays homage to our partners in the United Nations, the European Union, NATO and the WTO. In that order.


The truculant BNP appears to support the idea of the Commonwealth—as long as it’s white:

In place of the EU, a BNP government will aim towards greater national self-sufficiency, and work to restore Britain’s family and trading ties with Australia, Canada and New Zealand, and to trade with the rest of the world as it suits us.

The UKIP alone proclaims, in the Foreign Affairs section of its Policy Statement:

UKIP would set up a Commonwealth Free Trade Area (CFTA). Given the extraordinary economic power of the Commonwealth, such a bloc would be a global economic sensation. It could also interlock with other trade blocs to enhance global trade and prosperity. UKIP would retain friendly and profitable trade relationships with EU countries after withdrawal. UKIP would sign a UK-EU Free Trade deal, similar to the free trade deals the EU has with over 50 other non-EU countries but as its largest trading partner.

It was when I read these words that I agreed to join our own RealityReturns’ UKIP foreign supporters group on the DT blog.

In Australia, the Commonwealth policies of the major political parties tell the same dismal story. To canvass them all here would become tedious, but you can read for yourselves the manifest disinterest of the Labor, Liberal, National and Greens parties via the preceding links.

A shared language, a system of parliamentary democracy and Common Law give the Commonwealth several advantages over groups like the United Nations (which was memorably dismissed by Yes Minister’s Sir Humphrey Appleby as “merely the accepted forum for the expression of international hatred”). The Commonwealth can, and does, exert real moral pressure on misbehaving member states whose governments fail to uphold its declared principles. Suspension or even expulsion from Commonwealth membership carries with it a humiliation which few defaulting despots have proved willing to bear without remorse. The international sporting boycott of South Africa, conceived and organised from within the Commonwealth nations, was a greater—and more painful—condemnation of that country’s policy of institutional apartheid, than any sanctions of nations.

The importance of cultural and sporting bonds can never be underestimated. Given that virtually every sport invented in Britain is followed with a quasi-religious fervour throughout the Commonwealth, communication at the personal, business and government levels always starts with a certain amount of common ground and connection with ordinary people. Throw a group of boys from Pakistan, Australia, Zimbabwe and Jamaica together in a park, and within five minutes—guaranteed—they will have organised a cricket match along Test lines.

I’ve even heard it expressed by some Americans that they would be interested in participating in a Commonwealth economic grouping, were it ever to occur. Expat Briton David Hawkins (aka Captain Sherlock) made this point in the thread I mentioned earlier. While a lot of knotty points would need to be ironed out (the fundamental dichotomy between Britain’s 1701 Act of Settlement and the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution springs to mind) the participation of the United States would make the Commonwealth a force that would dwarf even China. Given the fundamentally anti-British attitude of the current U.S. administration, it seems a pretty distant prospect at best.

Some Britons would like to see a Commonwealth free-trade zone for what I believe to be the wrong reasons. Merrie-olde-England romanticists hankering for a return to Rule Brittania should realise that the UK would not be the leader of any such economic grouping; though it has the largest GDP of any Commonwealth nation, Canada, India and Australia are not far behind, and Britain’s status, even granted it relinquished EU membership, is likely to be one of primus inter pares. In the longer term, it seems certain that India, with over half the entire population of the Commonwealth, will eventually become the dominant force.

In a world largely motivated by personal selfishness, envy, collectivism and state control of the individual, The Commonwealth of Nations stands as a beacon of light and liberty, a force for good and, should it ever choose to embrace its economic potential, a vehicle for prosperity for much of the world where it is so desperately needed. The United Kingdom gave birth to the Commonwealth; in the modern age, it should not lightly abandon its family—particularly not at the behest of a European monolith that has anything but Britain’s best interests at heart.

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375 Responses to A Neglected And Forgotten Resource

  1. crownarmourer says:

    They put the feelers out for this back in the 1930’s then later in the 1940’s any effort to create a block was scuppered everytime by national self interest from Canada, Australia or New Zealand, newly independent nations wanted real independence not window dressing. However time has moved on and some countries would love the chance to have more access to main movers markets. However could be good as it would freeze China out of Africa.

    That’s true crown; but back then those sort of agreements tended to have exclusivity covenants attached to them; these days in any case the predominance of transnational corporations makes that irrelevant and in fact impossible. That’s why I was careful to specify a non-exclusive free-trade zone. The UKIP policy (see above) does the same.

    No-one’s suggesting that Australia leave APEC, or Canada leave NAFTA, and so on. But a LOT of Britons are having second thoughts about the EU. This just might be their way out – Oz

  2. scud1 says:

    Hey Oz…Great post.

    This whole Europe thing for us is becoming more and more difficult to understand. We simply don’t know what the hell is going on anymore.
    As I’m sure you are aware we’ve just had the first budget delivered from our ‘coalition, progressive government’ (socialist then) that’s talking ‘times of austerity’ (a phrase that positively makes me cringe)…taxes are to be hiked, public sector jobs are to be axed…all because the previous socialist lot spent all our money and then had to start borrowing / printing it.
    But no mention…not a squeak about the £45m per day (some estimates are a great deal higher) handed over to the EU, not a whisper about the £7b doshed out in foreign aid (ring fenced apparently) and certainly no murmur of repealing the ‘climate change bill’ which effectively ties this country to certain economic ruin. Oh yeah. And we’re also fighting a rather expensive, pointless war in Afghanistan.
    Interesting isn’t it that the industrial revolution started here and now we appear to be the champions most hell bent on ending it…question is, to be replaced by what?
    There is no doubt that the UK has been infiltrated by traitors who seek to undermine democracy, free speech, to promote the insanity of multiculturalism, political correctness, ‘elf n safety’ the compensation culture, the banking crisis…oh yes the banking crisis which saw HMRC splurging £111b of our money ‘preventing’ our banks from going under. Remember how this all started in the UK? It was Robert Peston…a traitor, prominent self confessed member of Common Purpose and the BBCs business correspondent who triggered the run on Northern Rock. Has he been banged up for illegal insider trading and spreading malicious false information? No, he’s still business correspondent for the beeb and is on our screens virtually every day.
    It is suspected that most of this rot (like banning eggs from being sold by number) actually originates within our own shores. It’s kind of difficult to believe but then you only have to look at legal cases bought to our attention by the likes of Christopher Booker. Market traders hauled through the courts for selling bananas by the pound, fisherman fined astronomic sums for catching the wrong fish, millions being handed over to foreigners for the use of our own landfill sites…It’s so completely barking bonkers that one can only conclude that it is being carried out not through supposed ‘appeasement’ of our ‘European masters’ but by wilful intent to ruin ourselves from within so as to enable a ‘fresh start’ whatever the bloody hell that might be.
    Great ideas about the Common Wealth and splendidly written Oz…trouble is, while this fraudulent lefty shite continues to permeate our society like a cancer it’s just not going to happen.
    My personal hope is that these f***tards will eventually trip up big time and when they do there will be utter hell to pay…particularly interested in the latest revelations about Dr David Kelly…should think Blair’s sphincter’s fibrillating like a humming bird right now.

    Hey. I’ve written a slightly too long ‘short’ story about Panorama’s ‘What’s up with the weather’…Ok if I post it? Sure – Oz

  3. Pointman says:

    Hiya Billy. Prefer Chuck’s version but WTH. I’ve been thinking about the whole ‘intuition’ thing for a long time. It’s just too complex to get into a post. We’re looking at a monologue thing to do it justice.

    What’re you doing up at this time of night? Try something different http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSufpYarCj0

    Have you heard the Ry Cooder album “A meeting by the River”?


  4. Pointman says:

    Scud, you still there?


  5. ScouseBilly says:

    I was distracted by a whizzed out old hippy:

  6. scud1 says:

    The making of Panorama’s ‘What’s up with the weather’.

    The Panorama production team twiddle pencils and finger tap the meeting room table as Claire and John who are seated at the front behind an overhead projector prepare their preliminary storyboard.
    There is a general crackle of excitement in the air at the opportunity to use the famous; and in the eyes of the BBC, still serious brand of ‘Panorama’ to discredit the ever growing threat of public and scientific scepticism towards the mantra of man made global warming.

    ‘Alright John…what you got for us?’

    ‘Morning Mike…everyone.’

    John Grating slowly stands and removes his intellectual looking spectacles.

    ‘Well….Depressingly, I think we are all rather uncomfortably aware; despite our best efforts for some ten, fifteen years now that it appears there are still…incredibly… people out there that don’t believe a word we say on the issue.’

    ‘Unbelievable. Un…bloody believable.’

    ‘Exactly Mike, exactly. Now basically it’s the view of the corporation and err… our new progressive government that we begin a fresh campaign to re-educate this selfish and uninformed minority of deniers.
    As all you bright young things are now aware, it’s been decided that a half hour slot under our most respected documentary banner will be our most effective tool to start the ball rolling again.’

    A brief, self congratulatory cheer erupts around the meeting table as John Grating stoops and puts a slightly unwelcome arm over Claire’s shoulder.

    ‘I’m not sure if all of you here have had the pleasure of being introduced to our new and rather wonderful research assistant yet, but let me tell you, if you haven’t you soon will be. She’s a star in the making so at this point I’d like to hand over the reigns to Claire for a rundown of her own and I think excellent ideas on content, tactics and style. Please feel free to question at any time…Claire?’

    Claire Stipling looked nervous but pretty in her snug fitting cream coloured suit as she stood to face the audience. It was her first presentation at her new employers, indeed the first since she’d graduated in ‘low carbon economics and related social studies’ from Kingston University.

    ‘Well, thank you John for your most flattering introduction.’

    She tugged at the hem of her tightly buttoned jacket then proceeded to position the first of several transparencies onto the plate of the projector.

    I err…I believe that the question we must ask ourselves is why?’ Why do some ordinary people and even a tiny minority of scientists persist with denial and flat out refuse to accept the evidence that stares them in the face, not just from their television screens but every time they open their front doors?
    Since I started here at the BBC. My job has been to try to understand this warped thinking and to offer up some possible remedies of which I’d like to share with you this morning with a recommendation that they be used in this very important airing of Panorama in a months time.’

    Claire switches on the projector. A large image of a list of numbered points is displayed onto a screen at the opposite end of the meeting room.
    Claire having completely disposed of her initial nerves, strides confidently towards it and extends a telescopic pointer.

    ‘Number one and probably the biggest change of tact for the corporation is a change of emphasis.’

    Claire taps the word ‘Fun’ with her pointer.

    ‘Fun instead of gloom. Make the people feel involved in a common purpose towards a happier more cohesive community rather than lecture and hector about the wrongs of their current ways…’

    John Grating begins to nod off to the gentle whirring sound of the projector’s cooling fan as Claire launches into her second point of reminding viewers in ‘easy to understand language’ of the science…

    Ten days later Tom Heap or ‘Dung’ or ‘Dungers’ as he’s known to his friends is buzzing with excitement at the beginning of the first days shoot. Everything is in place for a whirlwind trip around the UK and then to the States with little expense spared.
    Tom jumps up and down and rubs his hands together as Jerry Marshall the director and Bob Warbouys the cameraman board a small boat for a trip up and around E.Ons Robin Rigg array of offshore wind turbines.

    Bob reaches for the two way radio.

    ‘Charlie one. Charlie one…Over.’
    ‘This is Charlie one…Over.’
    ‘Just leaving now. Should be on site in ten minutes…Over.’
    ‘Roger that beeb one. See you there. Over and out.’

    ‘Jezza. You noticed something?’
    ‘What’s that Tom?’
    ‘The winds not blowing.’
    ‘Already taken care of Tom.’

    Tom scratches his head and furrows his brow.

    ‘Err…what. So the wind from the helicopter will be enough will it?’
    ‘For what Dungers?’
    ‘To get the turbines spinning.’
    ‘Oh don’t be daft Tom. E,On know we’re here…made sure they’ll have them all whirling away like Catherine wheels.’
    ‘Oh yeah. Yeah course. Got anymore coffee in that flask of yours? I’m fucking freezing.’

    Two hours later and the three men are back ashore with Jerry, confident that Bob had recorded enough workable material to be chopped about in the editing suite.
    Tom and Jerry sit comfortably in the back seats of the Range Rover as they replay the footage over a hooked in laptop.
    ‘He he. I love that bit Tom, fucking love it. We’re told we must pay because the climate is sick…but do we believe it? Fuck me Bob how many months worth of ‘orrible weather archives we got back at HQ?’
    ‘Loads. Where we off to now blokes?’
    ‘Back to the hotel. Lets have a nice leisurely lunch, bit of a kip then we’ll sort out Tom’s Noddy car for tomorrow.’

    The following morning Tom, Jerry and Bob are all feeling somewhat worse for wear having run up a hotel bar bill of a shade under £200.

    ‘Fuckin’ ‘ell can you actually be done for drink driving in one of these things? ‘Cause I think I’m still over the limit.’
    ‘Ha haar. No plods going to stop you in this Dungers…the last thing you’ll be doing is breaking any speed limit. Go on, get in it. See how it suits.’

    Tom squeezes into the tiny G-Wiz. His head wedges against the roof and arse responds in kind against the thin, firm seat as he winds down the window.

    ‘Let me have a look at the script again Jezza.’
    ‘What for?’
    ‘Just want to check something.’

    Jerry hands over the day’s script and Tom places it on the G-Wiz’s steering wheel.

    ‘Yeah, yeah. Says here that I have to say that it’s mine.’
    ‘Well it is yours…for a day. Hired out in your name isn’t it?’
    ‘Yeah but aren’t people going to think I’m telling fibs…what’s the range on this thing?’
    ‘Dunno…about twenty miles…downhill.’

    Jerry and Bob begin to laugh loudly.

    ‘Well that’s what I mean. How the bloody hell am I supposed to have driven the length and breadth of the country in this? We’d have had to start filming this time last year!’
    ‘Come on Tom…You’re giving the money pit too much brain credit. Look, it was either this or a bike and a bike didn’t really fit in.’
    ‘Yeah but he might of fitted better on a bike.’
    ‘Shut up Bob.’
    ‘Sorry Tom.’

    Tom levers himself out of the tiny car.

    ‘What’s happened to the road crew?’
    ‘Ahh…they’ll be here in a minute. Expect they were getting plastered last night like us.’
    ‘Everything set with these spotty boy racers then?’
    ‘Yep. Everything’s sorted Dungers. Spoke to Alice this morning. Said she’s rounded up a dozen or so village idiots who’ll be perfect. Come on lets get some breakfast, I’m bloody Hank Marvin.’

    Two hours later Tom is lurking behind the crest of a hill, squashed into the microscopic confines of the G-Wiz armed with a two way radio and out of sight from Bob’s camera.
    ‘Alright Tom. Three, two, one…action…err, over.’
    ‘Roger Jezzer…over.’

    Eventually the G-Wiz trundles into shot. It’s perfect. Subdued filtered light, not another car to be seen. Just nature in all its vast glory totally un-offended by the presence of the insignificant electric car.

    ‘Any good?’
    ‘Superb Dungers, superb.’
    ‘How much further to the rallying point?’
    ‘Rallying point! Ha haar. You’re good Tom, really good.
    Sat nav says its only ten minutes. The road crew are already there.’
    ‘Good. Hey Jez. Keep me in your mirrors would you? I’m terrified the batteries going to give out.’

    Tom pulls up at their destination behind the Range Rover.
    Half wits lounge about over the hoods of various, laughably pimped up but otherwise ordinary cars. They ignore him and the G-Wiz.
    Tom takes his script and approaches the road crew who are busy assembling a large four piece screen…Claire Stipling’s enormously well received idea of nicking ‘Top Gears’ internationally renowned ‘cool wall’ and cleverly re-naming it ‘the wall of certainty’ as part of the new approach of BBC fun and larks with everything global warming.

    ‘They don’t look very happy do they Jezzer.’
    ‘No. Think they’ve twigged that they won’t be meeting Clarkson.’
    ‘You didn’t tell them that they would did you?’
    ‘No I didn’t. Alice did.’
    ‘Oh for fucks sake Jezz.’
    ‘Well…You didn’t think they’d turn up for a bit part in Panorama for twenty quid did you? Spect most of ‘em haven’t even heard of it…look at ‘em. Pubescent little shits.’
    ‘Jeesus. Alright. How we going to get this shot of them racing around making loads of soot and noise then?’
    ‘Ah. Thought of that Dungers. Got a couple of cases of Fosters and four bottles of White Lightning cider for the ladies.’
    ‘If they perform?’
    ‘Course if they bloody perform…If not the road crew can have it. Hair of the dog and all that.’


    ‘Don’t worry Tom…nothing we can’t edit out. Lets get the cards ready for the wall of certainty.’

    Bob the cameraman is satisfied that he has what he needs. Engines are cut as
    Tom gathers his microphone and beckons the youths over for their chance of fame. He asks them one question and one question only…

    ‘How certain are you, that mankind is responsible for warming the climate? Certain…Likely…Unlikely or no way?’

    Later, back at the hotel the three men paw over the days footage downloaded onto Bob’s corporation owned Apple ibook.

    ‘You know what Tom. I reckon it’s perfect, just bloody perfect. You just couldn’t demonstrate it any clearer…only idiots don’t believe in AGW.’
    ‘Yeah. Yeah, it’s looking good Jezza…genius thinking I gotta say. Where we off to tomorrow again?’
    ‘Workington. It’s just down the road. You’re going to stumble around for a bit where the bridge used to be…the one that got washed away in the floods killing a cop. Good opportunity to attach a little tragedy. An actual on yer doorstep death. Then start heading south to the Yorkshire Dales…have a pint or two in the highest pub in Britain…that’s just a tie in to discredit fool ideas about the cold winter. Oh fuck! I just thought of something.’
    ‘You’re supposed to turn up at the pub in that poxy wheeled shoe box thing.’
    ‘Oh bollocks to that Jezz.’
    ‘No, we’ve got to Dungers…says very specifically in the script. All about a little demo that alternatives really work.’
    ‘Oh fucking hell. How far is it then?’
    ‘Err…hmm that’s a point. Google it would you Bob.’

    ‘A hundred and thirty two divided by forty…err, times eight for each re-charge, plus travel time in-between at say forty miles an hour…oh bloody hell…Just under thirty hours.’
    ‘What!..I’m not doing that Jezz.’
    ‘No. Course not.’
    ‘Hey…couldn’t we push it into the back of the roadies van? I’m sure there’s enough space.’

    The following day, after a brief visit to Workington and a not quite so brief visit to the Tan Hill Inn…Britain’s highest pub. Tom, Jerry and Bob are hammering it back down the M6 in the Range Rover, the G-Wiz remaining in the pub car park to be picked up by some hapless junior of the beeb after Jerry had had Alice negotiate a deal to purchase it.

    ‘Right. Couple more stunts here then we’re off to the good old US of A.’

    Tom is thumbing through the script again.

    ‘Who’s Bob Ward and Bjorn Lomborg Jezza?’
    ‘Oh for Gawd’s sake. Don’t know much about this do you Dungers.’
    ‘Not really, no.’
    ‘Bob Ward’s a psychotic, slap headed eco fruitcake and Bjorn’s our stooge of a sceptic.’
    ‘Stooge of a sceptic?’
    ‘Yeah…He’s painted as such but he isn’t really.’
    ‘Yeah…perfect stitch up I’d say. Could be amusing too. I’ve heard that Ward hates Lomborg not so much because they don’t agree that we’re screwing up the planet… ‘cause they do. But because Bjorn doesn’t buy into the agenda.’
    ‘Yeah, well don’t worry Tom, you’re only asking them questions that they can’t argue about…Ha haar.’
    ‘Ok Jezza. And Bob Watson?’
    ‘Bob Watson’s everyone’s favourite cuddly scientist. The credentialed man we call him. Anyone who’s on the fence and listens to what he has to say…what, with his kind of… brain the size of a planet, I’m an anorak type thing ‘ll take it as gospel. Really though, he’s just crusty old comrade.’
    ‘Cool. And who’s the Rowe’s?’
    ‘First assignment next week, Yer typical average arsed family who know bugger all about it. Friends of friends of friends of Alice apparently. You go in there with a C02 meter and start measuring their breath, the car exhaust, the heating even the pet poodle…yeah, a right guilt trip and gives us the chance to introduce the travelling cool wall.’
    ‘Yeah. I’m getting it. What you up to at the weekend Jezza?’
    ‘Flying off to Spain. Fucking stag do…at my bleeding age! Jeez.’

    Next week, after Tom, Bob and Jerry have patronised the ‘Rowe family’ into an early grave in Thamesmead, south east London they’re back filming outside The Royal Institution for that all important ‘gravitas’ to the ‘cause’.
    Tom waits with Jerry and Bob until two consecutive parking spaces are occupied by G-Wiz’s.
    ‘Friggin’ ‘ell. Now Dung, now!’
    Tom strides sneeringly down Albermarle St W1 and gives a cursory, approving glance towards the supposed ‘eco-vehicles’ (really just toys of rich, ‘socialist’ London tosspots eager to display their greenness whenever the Porsche Cayene can stay in the Chelsea garage) and enters the ever so slightly grand but most certainly authoritative looking entrance to the RI.

    Claire Stipling’s ‘science bit’ had proved a bit of a head scratcher to Mike. Sure, Justin Rowlett’s kitchen (the ethical man) had been ok and with just two plastic bottles and a couple of light bulbs had managed to convert at least three, stooge audience sceptics…but he needed more. Much more.

    Dungers enters the Victorian labs of the venerable RI wearing a pair of white gloves and goes on to describe John Tindall’s amazing work of the 1880’s (Apparently with the great mans very own contraptions) that C02 wasn’t a very good conductor of heat…well, at least not quite as good as air.

    ‘Right Jezz. Where’s our people?’
    ‘Main auditorium…Better get there quick too, Bob says Bob and Bjorn are ‘avin’ a right old ding dong.’
    ‘Fuckin’ excellent…let’s go!’

    ‘Ooof’…‘Yer f*****g Swedish c***.’
    ‘F**k you.’

    ‘Boys…BOYS! Remember whose paying you!’

    Bob Ward and Bjorn Lomborg scramble to their feet. They look sheepish as Bob Watson chuckles from the stalls.

    ‘Jeeesus, Ready for the wall of certainty kids?’
    ‘Ready Jeremy.’

    The full scale version of the ‘wall of certainty’ is wheeled out.


    Then follows a series of questions, delivered in young Tom’s perfect, supercilious manner.
    ‘Is Co2 a greenhouse gas?’ ‘Is man producing C02?’ ‘Do you have a nose on your face?’
    Bjorn the ‘sceptic’ dutifully places his ‘Panorama’ cards on the wall of certainty precisely where the BBC Pravda requires…‘Certain.’

    Four days later the three men are making themselves comfortable on British Airways first class. Flight 009 over to Birmingham Alabama.

    ‘Who’s this bloke Christy then Jezz?’
    ‘An arse’ole.’
    ‘An arse’ole with a moustache.’
    ‘Yeah. A true deniers denier. I think Mike wants us to wheel him out because he was quite prominent on C4’s swindle….think he’s got a personal dislike for the man.’
    ‘Ha haar. Yeah. And the questions you’re goin’ to ask ‘im ‘ll make him look a proper tit.’
    ‘Won’t he suspect?’
    ‘Nah…Alice has already done the dirty on ‘im. We’re using one of our sub companies and with that stupid little cool wall thing he’s going to think it’s nothing more than a programme for infants.’
    ‘Nice. Champagne? Jezz…Bob?’
    ‘Don’t mind if I do’.

    Happy with the results of shamelessly stitching up John Christy like a processed cadaver on the autopsy table the boys catch an internal to Penn state to meet the ugliest Mann in the world in an attempt to re-introduce as fact the thoroughly discredited and fraudulent ‘hockey stick’.

    Somewhere in the woods…

    ‘Do you think you’ve ever overstated the case for Mann made global warming?’
    ‘That’s a wrap…Thank you Michael.’
    ‘Hey…no problem. Say, would you guys like to see my wiener?’
    ‘Err…No thanks Mike. Gotta go, gotta go.’

    Two days later back at Pravda HQ’s editing suite No3 Mike and John are ecstatic with the results.
    ‘Fantastic chaps. Fan bloody tastic. Yeah, with this tinkly winkly light hearted background music, sceptic wingnuts properly kippered, the emails reduced to ‘just a few words of unfounded conjecture’ and the message of catastrophe unless you cough up and do as we say…yeah, it’s just all there in one neat little half hour package. Fan fucking tastic stuff.’
    ‘Cheers Mike.’
    ‘No problem Tom…you’ll find a nice little envelope on your desk.’
    ‘Yeah. All we need now is Viney giving the general fee paying idiots a nice ‘balanced’ intro…He he he.’


    Well chaps, hope I haven’t bored the socks off you. I didn’t think that this one would be that long, but going through it on the BBC’s iplayer http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00swp0k/Panorama_Whats_Up_With_the_Weather/ (Just in case you want to raise your BP levels)
    I began to realise that there was far more crap in this half hour of shameless propaganda than I first realised…a story ten times this length wouldn’t cover it.
    Couple of screw ups from Bob Watson though and I’m amazed the BBC failed to spot…He really isn’t quite as clever as they’d like us to believe.
    Tom (dung) Heap: ‘How certain are you that greenhouse gasses warm the planet?’
    Bob Watson: ‘…blah blah blah, clearly leads to warming of the Earth’s planet.’
    Tom Heap: ‘And how sure are you that we’re emitting more carbon dioxide, one of the principal greenhouse gases?’
    Bob Watson: ‘…blah blah blah, there’s no doubt that we humans are changing the atmospheric composition of carbon dioxide.’

    Huh? What did our kindly thpeach impeded thientific advisor to the government thdudy again?

    Good weekend to all…off to Lord’s again tomorrow for the final ODI. Not normally much of a fan of ‘pyjama’ cricket but this series has been a bit of a cracker. Reckon you Aussies have us worked out and will bring it back to 3-2, which’ll make the misses bloody unbearable therefore I might have to get really rather drunk.

    Oh yeah, Scuds weight loss tips:
    1 Contract gastroenteritis (some dodgy curry house prawns should do the trick)
    2 Win a contract to fit a large area of wooden floor preferably up 5 flights of stairs.
    3 Make sure it’s bloody hot.

  7. Pointman says:

    Jeez Scud – it’s good, fuckin’ good. NoIdea and I are kicking around some co-writing over on Rastech’s but we need you for the dialogue at least. Register there and we’ll have some fun.


  8. Edward. says:

    Let me remind you scud1, you are a fucking hero!
    Off to Lords again, do they take amex behind the bar? – too much dosh to carry around…….. even for one round!

    pointy (sorry) I will get back to you, been a bit busy recently and also family stuff -gawd don’t seem to be many weddings, christenings these days, always seems to be the other. Have tried to register with rastech again, oh and didn’t get in……. but it sounds too bloody technical (obviously -sigh) for me anyway (simple northerner and flat cap).

    Good post Ozboy (I despise the EU with a passion), will comment tomorrow, got to get my head down for some zzzzs, not thinking straight at the moment (did I ever?).


  9. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Hi Oz,

    Great article and I understand where you are coming from, BUT……..

    As a kid I remember Empire Day, I remember the huge maps on the classroom wall, predominately pink (as in your map) and I remember being proud as, every morning the flag was raised in the school quadrangle we intoned – “I honour my God, I serve my Queen, I salute the flag” and so we did.

    I remember in the early days of TV in the ’50s/60’s how stations signed off at 10 or 11 pm with “God Save the Queen” and how adults, rellies and neighbours (we didn’t have TV then), stood to attention in their own living rooms in respect. I remember going to the pictures (cinema for you Poms) and when “the Queen” was played the whole audience stood as one to sing along.

    It was a matter of pride, respect and loyalty and we drank it in with our mothers’ milk.
    Today we are dying of thirst.

    Prompted by your thoughts, and realising how ignorant I am about the modern Commonwealth, I had a Wiki-look at exactly what we are talking about. It’s pretty scary.

    Recently at the last CHOGM meeting (pre-Dopenhagen I think) addressed by HM, she urged all members to “take the lead in action on Climate Change”. WHAT?!!!
    Pissed me off no end. Then there are issues such as Mugabe and Zimbabwe. He was sitting in that audience, his botoxed face a macabre mask, and turned up again at the dinner table hosted by the Royals in Copenhagen, KRudd by Princess Mary’s side. Who, of any integrity, would sup with the Devil?

    Wiki tells me that even when member states are suspended, variously Fiji, Pakistan, South Africa, they remain members , never expelled. Looking at the list of countries, so many of them are economic and social basket-cases whose populations deeply resent what they see as colonial exploitation of themselves and their forebears in building the wealth of the Empire, and consider the billions they receive in “foreign aid” to be their never-enough “entitlements”.

    A number of countries have applied to join and been unsuccessful, among them Sudan and Yemen. How long before political/economic expediency admits such countries and, in my opinion, whose main-game is to extend the Caliphate?

    Hundreds of NGO’s, while not members, are part of the Commonwealth Family. Suits them fine as they leach billions in taxpayer funds and use it to promote their left-wing social and political agendas. Check out the Wiki-list, it had me choking on my cornflakes.

    I fear that much as our mates the Brits got sucked into the EU web like juicy little bugs to be devoured by the voracious EU spider sucking their economic and social life-blood dry, the idealism of your concept might end up biting us on the proverbial arse.

    You know what they say Oz, be careful what you wish for……..


    All very good points Swanny; though I thought I had drawn a pretty clear distinction between Empire and Commonwealth. I’m old enough (just) to remember singing GSTQ at the flicks too.

    You’re right, I should have dealt with the problems in the current Commonwealth structure; the previous thread was growing so long and loading so slowly that I cut a few corners getting this one out. Maybe another thread – Oz

  10. Amanda says:


    I adore Peter Tosh’s ‘Johnny B. Goode’. Love the righteous groove, love the back-up singers, love the orgasmic guitar towards the end.

  11. Pointman says:

    @Swan, Ed,


  12. ScouseBilly says:

    and uses more herbs than Jamie the pukka/phukka Oliver 😉

  13. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Hey Scud,

    A man of deep insight and literary talent. What’ll he think of next? No Idea…LOL

  14. Pointman says:

    A rose by any other name would smell as silly but anyway, call me Al http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULjCSK0oOlI&feature=related


  15. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    I do appreciate what you mean.

    For me, the Empire was the foundation stone, the Commonwealth growing from that. The kind of sentiment it imbued in me as a child is not what I see in the C’wealth today. The idea of Democracy is a numbers game, and any which way you look at it, there’s no way I can see our Aussie numbers as ever being enough to serve our best interests, our economic contribution notwithstanding.

    For example, in the EU, the UK has no power of veto over anything, as 35% of the entire EU population is required for such, and consequently can only grab their ankles when push comes to shove, particularly with a Franco/German bloc vote, UK just can’t protect themselves.

    I just can’t get past a real firm conviction of mine which the EU epitomises,
    “If you lay down with dogs, you get up with fleas”.

    Yikes, pass the DDT…LOL

  16. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    For Amanda,

    Shades of you in the Smokeys……ain’t that so Mr A? .. LOL

  17. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Bugger, I don’t know how to stop it doin’ that!!!

  18. Amanda says:

    Pointman, it’s a fun enjoyable and a great song… I love C. Chase in it.


    Blackswan: You cheeky bugger, you. I hardly wear anything in the mountains so there ain’t too much to fall off. Ye-hah!

  19. Amanda says:

    Sorry, that should have been ‘fun, enjoyable song and a great video’, something like that.

  20. Amanda says:

    Relevant for the Internet crowd… the lovely Kate… a strange delight… incognito…

  21. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    For Crown & Amanda

    Yes I am cheeky bugger.
    Did someone say they like Col Elliot? He co-wrote this with Adam Harvey, another good ‘ole boy from Oz……………..

  22. Amanda says:

    Blackswan, when I click on it, the following message comes up:

    This video contains content from Sony Music Entertainment, who [should be ‘which’ in my opinion] has blocked it in your country on copyright grounds’.

  23. Amanda says:

    P. S. I found another version anyway.

  24. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    In honour of memoryvault being back in our midst…….

  25. crownarmourer says:

    Amanda Blackswan because I’m evil I shall inflict this on the world…


  26. crownarmourer says:

    Blackswan to stop it filling in space immediately below the URL write some text.

  27. crownarmourer says:

    This is what passes for culture back home…


  28. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Thanks Crown………….

    PS Are you ripping your hair out yet with a liddle bit o’ country?

  29. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Was that your Da in the red cap CA?

    So that’s where “head-kicker” came from but the hoons take it literally…..LOL

  30. crownarmourer says:

    Nah not me fatha he doesn’t turn up much these days although my granddad used to when he was still alive he said we had all gotten soft and it was rougher in his day. I used to attend a few matches myself it last for about 6 hours in the background you can see my old watering holes.

  31. crownarmourer says:

    It is one of the few mob football games left that has been unmodified the high street in the background was a roman road and roman era settlement has been found. The romans would land at Yarm on the Tees and then march north to the Wall about 25 miles away via Sedgefield. Not much has happened since then but people used to go there to take the waters and the healthy air, Switzerland of the North apparently except without the mountains and chocolate and stuff.

  32. crownarmourer says:

    I’m glad they don’t play it Memphis or somebody would put a cap in somebodies ass.

  33. crownarmourer says:

    Edward this may be the tip of the iceberg who knows how many women have been silenced, it is funny that Tipper Gore led a personal crusade against bad lyrics in songs in the 1980’s only to find out hubby may be not whom she believed he was allegedly (to cover my ass). Well this may cost him some big bucks, Tennessee is a no fault divorce state so she will get at least half of his money which may be a tactical move on her part knowing this was coming (forgive the pun), he may have to settle out of court to get this dropped costing him even more, then gosh knows who else is out there.
    Well karma has finally caught up with him and he could be facing a few years in jail for this. I see this holier than thou hypocrisy all the time here in the south.

    What’s next? Group therapy sessions with Tiger Woods? Or perhaps that should be grope therapy – Oz 😆

  34. crownarmourer says:

    Ozboy this being the USA Al Gore will have an addiction problem, and yes you are form tonight or morning for you.

  35. NoIdea says:

    Hiya Scud.
    Another awesome story, somewhat scary in its realism I feel.
    Hiya TUB
    Thank you for the link to a great tune.

    If the goal of all of these various groups (EU,WHO,UN,NAFTA etc) is to consolidate, as it would appear to be, why would any consolidation be a good thing?
    The script for Three World Wars was penned by Albert Pike in 1871 it has been adhered to faithfully so far.
    The Third World War is shaping up exactly as planned all those years ago; it has always been about the consolidation of power.
    Will WW3 be any different from the previous World Wars in the end results?

  36. Pointman says:

    They’ve been sitting on that Al Gore story for years. He was simply too big a target and well lawyered up. He’s vulnerable now. People who behave like that are serial offenders. More scandals will emerge I hope.


  37. Pointman says:

    Line of Descent

    Chapter 8

    Conways was a gentleman’s club. It had been established over two hundred years ago, in the heyday of the gentleman’s club, when they had sprung into existence all over London like a multitude of spring shoots. Through the years each had evolved, taking on their own personality and flavour. Some were exclusively patronised by the soldiers of empire. Others by writers or members of the judiciary. Each in their own way contributed to the aggregation and establishment of the professional classes needed to run an empire. Most of them had perished, shrivelled and died under the twin pressures of the loss of empire and a society that had changed, that no longer saw the value or relevance of such institutions.

    Conways had not. From the beginning, its membership had been drawn exclusively from the upper echelons of the civil service. Its founders had been from that strata of the aristocracy that had felt the need to serve. They were rich and privileged men who had dedicated their lives to their country and its interests. All else was secondary. Conways was where they met, to relax and discuss matters of state, away from the gaze of what they termed the transients, their political masters. Politicians came and went but these men abided.

    Sir Horace Vinton had been a member of it for over thirty years. He, like his forebears before, had risen high to the first rank of administrators to command power. He exercised it ruthlessly in the interests of his country. The resemblance between him and the club’s founders was exact. He came from that same section of society, was that same sort of person, the working aristocrat who was rich enough not to need the salary that went with the position. That went straight to a charity for retired soldiers.
    His black Daimler saloon pulled up outside the club at one o’clock exactly. He took his lunch there every Monday and Friday. The chauffeur got out and opened the door for him. His security man, who had been riding in the front passenger seat, also got out, quickening his stride to get ahead of him to hold open the door of the club and more importantly, to check the lobby. It was empty except for old Watling, the rotund and respectful servant who had acted as receptionist cum doorman at the club for nearly as long as Vinton had been a member. He stood behind the desk at reception. The chauffeur drove away to park in the usual place. He would return promptly in an hour and a quarter to pick them up.

    Sir Horace passed through the doorway and walked up the four marble steps into the lobby. Watling had been sorting the members mail when he had seen Sir Horace’s car pull up. By the time Sir Horace had crossed the lobby, Watling had emerged from behind the desk and was waiting to help him out of his overcoat. Sir Horace let him take it with a distracted thank you. Underneath he wore an immaculately tailored suit.

    While Watling carefully stored the coat, Sir Horace straightened the lapels of his jacket and marched away from him with a parting nod. He walked down the picture lined corridor leading off the lobby, heading towards the members’ Dining room. Behind him in the lobby, his bodyguard sat down in one of the chairs that lined one side of it and Watling relaxed. He reached down under the desk and silently produced a newspaper. The bodyguard stood up and walked over to the desk for it. It had been read that morning by a member and had therefore been removed from the library and replaced with a new, freshly ironed one. The bodyguard took it from him with a brief smile of thanks. He had once explained to Watling that he could not carry one about with him when he was on duty. He needed to keep both hands free, he had explained. He resumed his seat and crossing his legs, commenced reading the newspaper. Watling went back to sorting the members mail into the pigeon holes set into the wall behind the desk.

    Inside the dining room, Sir Horace sat at his table and scowled at the menu of the day. It had been hand written that morning. Nothing on it particularly appealed to him. Nearly all the tables in the room were occupied. Around him, a gentle buzz of conversation from the distinguished elderly diners carried on unnoticed. The menu was not the source of his bad mood. Closing it with a snap, he handed it to the waiting servant and ordered the roast beef. He thought about the Northern Ireland section. They were bloody hopeless. It was the most vital section of the security apparatus under his control and it was becoming more and more accident prone. He’d have to take action, he thought, put a good man in to shake them up.

    His mind cast about for a suitable candidate as he waited for his lunch to arrive. He needed someone who wasn’t going to make a pig’s ear out of it. No more cockups. Someone reliable. He considered several, there was no shortage of them. The real problem lay in plugging the hole that would be left behind when he transferred the right man. Musical bloody chairs with the top ranks of the service.

    All because of those clowns, he thought. He blamed himself. I should have taken action sooner, right after that MacColgan fiasco, he thought, grinding his teeth at the memory. It was simple enough. Just kill the man. They had official sanction, it was straight forward. The only complication was that he was on foreign soil. But no, they had to complicate it. Make it look like an accident for the papers. Embarrass the Provisionals in public with how incompetent they were. He remembered the tedious explanation of how the bomb had gone off before it should have. Something about using a primitive detonator to make it look authentic. Bloody authentic, he thought, the stupid bastards had killed some woman and her brats.

    His mouth twisted into an ugly line as he bridled at the memory of the roasting he had received from Walters in the aftermath. The bloody cheek. It was Walters’ idea after all. Go for the head, he had said, let’s hit the brains behind the gunmen. He had insisted over Vinton’s objections that they go on the offensive and it had all gone wrong. All that was really bothering Walters was the prospect of any comeback if his part in it ever became public. He had even hinted at destroying the written order for the execution that Vinton had insisted on before undertaking the task. He was glad he had done so, as if Vinton was going to kill someone on a nod and a wink from a mercurial jackass like Walters. Politicians, reflected Vinton bitterly, he had served under many, but none as venial or shallow as that bastard Walters.

    Bingham had been in charge of that operation and he had disappeared eight months ago, shortly after it had happened. They had written him off, deciding the Provisionals had killed him in revenge for MacColgan. Served him right, thought Vinton, he’d broken a cardinal rule of operations by being on the scene. His officers were under strict orders to always operate through locally recruited talent, never to participate in operations personally. No bloody Lawrence of Arabias going amongst the natives in mufti. Bingham had ignored that standing order. But now his former superior Thackery had gone missing.

    Were the disappearances connected? Was it still retaliation for MacColgan or a change of policy, going for the intelligence officers in the province? If so, they would have to tighten up personal security for all men in the Section. He knew what that meant, a virtual shutdown of all the vital intelligence coming from that area. They could not do without that. There were other sources, but this one was theirs, the only one that they could rely on not to be partisan. There were two terrorist groupings there, he reminded himself, and the locals could not be trusted too far in that direction. His lunch arrived, interrupting his thoughts. He put the problem aside and concentrated on the meal.

    Back in the lobby, Watling turned as he heard the whoosh of air caused by the heavy spring loaded entrance door being pushed open. All his regulars had arrived for lunch and no guests were expected, as far as he knew. It must be a messenger, he thought, turning. The man who came through the door was dressed in a dark blue suit. He walked up the steps and into the lobby. Definitely not a messenger, thought Watling. There was something funny about the way he walked. Briskly yet not in a hurry. His arms, that was it. His arms hung straight down by his sides, not moving as he walked. It gave him a strange quick robotic walk as he crossed the lobby.

    As he came abreast of the bodyguard, his right arm swung up away from his body and in the direction of the bodyguard’s face. At the end of it was a gun with a long black silencer attached. He shot the bodyguard at point blank range, without breaking step. Watling heard the crack of the shot and the hollow thud as the back of the bodyguard’s head hit the wall behind the chair he was seated in. He immediately slumped down in the chair. The newspaper dropped from his lifeless hands onto his lap and slid down his legs to an untidy heap at his feet. The man walked on past Watling, his arm returning to his side. He had not once looked at him. Watling stood rooted to the spot, aghast at what he had just seen.

    The man walked down the long corridor leading into the dining room, his pace quickening, his footsteps echoing the length of the corridor. He stopped abruptly at the threshold of the dining room and looked into it at the diners, his face blank and expressionless as his eyes sought out his quarry. Heads turned in his direction and conversations trailed off as people started to notice him standing there. His eyes settled on Sir Horace. He walked into the room, neatly threading his way through the tables with the nimbleness of a dancer towards Sir Horace.

    Sir Horace, perhaps alerted by a sixth sense or the growing lull in the conversations about him, looked up, a fork full of food suspended half way to his mouth. Their eyes met and locked, and Sir Horace was lost. There was an inevitability about the man. A sense of overpowering purpose, a hideous paralysing menace that bored down that stare, bored deep down into the primitive animal hinterlands of Sir Horace’s mind and transfixed him in the face of the mortal menace he knew to be bearing down on him. He felt the coldness of the metal as the man pressed the gun against his forehead and pulled the trigger. There was a blinding white flash and an instant of the most exquisite pain.

    For a moment the man stood there stock still, arm outstretched in the shocked suspended silence. He turned round and without looking at any of the diners in the room, walked briskly towards the door. They heard his footsteps echo down the corridor as they slowly rose from their seats.

    He passed Watling on his way out, still standing behind the desk but frozen in terror with the telephone receiver pressed to his ear. The security camera mounted high on the wall in the lobby later confirmed the man had been in the building for less than thirty seconds.


  38. Edward. says:

    Pointman says:
    July 3, 2010 at 9:30 pm

    No doubt.


  39. Edward. says:

    Has the DT got it?
    A good article……..YET!……..If still advocating green guff.
    Wonder what the Emperor of the (verbal) flatulence of greenery and armchair ecofascist Geoffrey Lean has to say? Bet he nearly fell out of his bath chair!
    Ta to fenbeagle.


  40. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Let me run this by you.

    For some reason, as I dozed through yet another rerun of Midsomer Murders (is there anyone left alive in that town?), for some inexplicable reason, you and your dozen eggs popped into my mind.

    We have been buying eggs by Weight for quite a long time now. And by the dozen.

    Years ago we always bought a dozen Small, Medium or Large, by the dozen. Then along with all our other metric weights, our eggs became labeled by individual weights, ie; 50 grams each or 60gms or 70 gms etc, also by the dozen. We did that for years. And the price of eggs has always increased, bit by bit.

    Then without me ever noticing it, or you I reckon, for quite a long time now, our dozen egg carton has been labeled 600gms, 700gms 800 etc. And I, like every other duped consumer, has out of habit automatically reached for the carton of 600 or 700 hundred grams, thinking (in our now-habitual metric mindset) that I was buying my usual purchase of 60 or 70 gram eggs. Doh!

    When we buy a 600 gram carton we are buying 12x50gm eggs, not the 60 I thought.
    And the prices have only gone up. I currently have two dozen 700gram free-range eggs in my fridge. One carton, in very fine print, says each egg weighs 59 grams and the other, with lots of nutritional information “per serve” gives no details of each egg weight.

    And my point is????

    This is a concealment of inflation presided over by the Aust/NZ Food Authority. As all pensions and wage rises are pegged to the Consumer Price Index (CPI) and that carton of eggs is part of the “standard basket of goods”, no wonder peoples incomes just don’t stretch so far anymore.

    Could the EU Directive be just another Agricultural Subsidy to growers, while getting the consumer to pay instead of Govt? As well as concealing the inflation rate?

    On a thread some while back some wag (probably Scud), told us about the mad practice of paying farmers NOT to raise pigs. There is no pig for the consumer to buy so they can’t fiddle on price, description etc – it’s a straight-up taxpayer pay-out. By reclassifying what and how people buy product, the consumer gets to pay the indirect agricultural subsidies, shifting those costs from one ledger to the other, reducing the Govt subsidy bill, concealing true inflation and implementing a true “user pays” system while telling constituents that they have Govt spending “under control”.

    Meanwhile, wondering why my scrambled eggs don’t go so far anymore, I crack another into the pot for good measure.

    Just a thought……….

    …and Cascade Premium Lager went from being sold in 375 mL stubbies to 330 mL—but no price cut. Changed back after enough people screamed blue bloody murder.

    Selling food by weight, and drink by volume, does have merit when you look at it that way. But the bastards will always try to put one over you while you’re looking the other way.

    With reference to EU, the issue there wasn’t cheating customers but one of sovereignty. How long d’you reckon it’ll be before the English language itself gets banned in England?

    As some of you have noted, a lot of this Euro-madness has its origins in Britain anyway. Britain has its quislings, to be sure, and from where I’m standing it looks as though some of the worst ones are running the country.

    And to clarify: I’m NOT suggesting any kind of Commonwealth political or even economic union, merely a free-trade zone in addition to existing groupings such as APEC and NAFTA. This would provide a handy way out of the EU for Britain, without actually imposing any other obligations on the rest of the Commonwealth – basically the same as UKIP policy – Oz

  41. Locusts says:

    Just wanted to drop in and say hi! Hope everyone is well.

    I bought a book the other week, which looks at the chinese perspective of Copenhagen, and in particular about the fraud of carbon trading and global warming. I read Chinese at a rather glacial pace, and bought a rather addictive computer game the same day. So after I’m bored of my legions killing persian bowman, i’ll give you all an update. On the book that is, not the game.

    About the Commonwealth idea, I think that there is some merit in the anglo-saxon alliance + friends. Gambians are great and more than welcome, but Nigerians, I’m afraid to say, are among the most unpleasant people i’ve ever met, not sure I’d want them in. I’m in two minds about India.

    I think we do need to wake up. We may feel guilty and apologetic about Empire, but I doubt rising nations feel the same way about their expanding national influence. I’ve met a number of people who I’m fairly sure would relish the idea of razing London to the ground. We either need to change their minds or get our acts together. History is not kind to the weak.

  42. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    G’day Locusts,

    You’re probably right. My only dealings with Nigerians was some years ago when my son, aged about 10 or 11 played soccer at school with two young Nigerian boys (who were taken to and from school each day in “Diplomatic Corps” cars), and he wanted to invite them home for his birthday party.

    He said he really liked them because they were “fun kids” and fantastic footballers. They declined his invitation saying they weren’t allowed to visit white peoples’ houses.

    “Why? Aren’t we as good as them?” young Swan asked. Another of those questions kids throw at you from left-field.

    With a population of only 22 million people, I’m not sure our best interests would be served.

    It would be great to hear your conclusions on the Chinese book. Keep in touch.


  43. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Edward. says:
    July 3, 2010 at 10:51 pm

    Hi Ed,

    Great link on the EU response. It’s truly beyond mad how “they” keep pushing this AGW Fraud in the face of just plain economics. Who benefits? Certainly not us.

    Now it’s 1 o’clock and I’d better go roost for the night.

    I’ll read Chapter 8 over morning coffee – Thanks Pointman.
    Night all……

  44. fenbeagle says:

    For what its worth, and for all the problems, it stands more chance of working than the idea of a united, and democratic Europe.

  45. Pointman says:

    Deutschland vier – Argentine null. They’ve passed the test with flying colours. Them v Holland in the final


  46. Edward. says:


    Till tomorrow mate but I’ll leave my thoughts.

    Swanny I never can get my head around the stupidity of it all, don’t these idiots (politicians) have costings made, or is all about ‘the AGW goals’, is it a mental illness?
    Oz is quite right about the EU, where much of this madness arises, this is what truly worries me, the whole claque of politicians in Britain (the elite) all are fully signed up to the EU disaster (and it will be a disaster, it just hasn’t occurred yet – the Euro will go down, something for which I pray fervently).
    They are so consumed with this lunacy (it is a central, even a foundation of the EU socialist construct) that all reason (if they had any) seems to have departed from them (and their political parties), in their unseemly haste to abase themselves before the Bruxelles altar.
    As I have said, in the end it is the poor bloody taxpayers who foot the bloody bill, as in public services, the man at the top makes a mistake, spends millions or billions in the process, gets a knighthood/or with MPs to the lords and a directorship and a golden handshake and guess who pays for his profligancy or stupidity?

    Blimey mate I know it is the same in Aus’, it is all done in ‘our’ name and for the ‘public good’, however AGW scam is the apotheosis of a great political ponzi scheme.

    It is a godsend for the PR/ego/pocket of the politicians; it shows they ‘care’ the can be seen to be doing ‘something’ and the ‘whole world and the scientific communtity is agreed’ (or so they say – hahahaha!!) but the scam is blatant bollocks, the poor bloody emperor is wearing no blumin’ clothes!
    Tell me mate, how far can you trust a politician?……. as about as far as you can chuck him!!

    Time for a cuppa and second half!

    @pointy, bet its Holland v Spain but if it is Germany……….. the Dutch will win, there is serious history with those two!!!


  47. Pointman says:

    Ed, BIG history – It would be a helluva final …


  48. crownarmourer says:

    Afternoon all to anybody still awake.

  49. Pointman says:

    hiya crown


  50. Pointman says:

    How long you’ll live

    “The veteran soldier would be bemused by 21st-Century hypochondria. In defiance of common sense and medical economics, the generation with the best life expectancy in history is obsessed with longevity. ”


    You just gotta love this guy.


  51. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    G’day Pointman

    Thanks for Chapter 8…….dontcha just love it when the white hats “do in” the black hats?

    Speaking of longevity, I’m always amazed and confused by the amount of Govt advertising we have for health checks. Is it the same in your neck of the woods?

    We have taxpayer funded ads for breast cancer checks, prostate cancer checks, heart disease checks, lung disease checks, skin cancer checks, organ donors, depression and mental health checks……. hurry up, go to your doctor and get “everything” checked.

    Only problem is, in major cities our hospitals can’t cope, doctors have “closed their books” as they can’t cope, waiting lists for “elective” surgery is mounting to years. Getting us to live to a ripe old age is problematic as there aren’t enough aged-care facilities, home help for the infirm, and subsidised pharmaceutical benefits are sending us broke.

    An ad telling us smokers to “go to your doctor” for nicotine addiction has an addict saying “the doctor’s on my side”. I asked the GP last time I was there, ” What’s this magic potion that’ll stop me smoking?”

    The answer? “Wouldn’t touch it with a barge pole. Distaste for cigarettes was an unintended side-effect of psychotropic anti-depressants”.

    We’re focusing on AGW and Big Oil, but Big Pharma is just as aggressive with even more potential to seriously damage people, and taxpayer funds are used to shove it down our throats.

    Does “Going to hell in a hand-basket” come to mind? Just as well I live on a deep dark river. A long walk off a very short pier is looking better and better……..oops, no good – the tide’s out! LOL

  52. Edward. says:

    Good day to you and all Tassies,
    Here is something you may have missed, SAVE THE TAZIE!!
    Fing is, oi alus loiked t’ cartoon too!

    I am going to now go, “up the steps to bedfordshire.”


  53. Pointman says:

    hiya guys. Been reading.


  54. Pointman says:

    The Times and Sunday Times have erected a paywall about themselves. I’ve been thinking about this and believe it’s a good thing. I hope it’s a success and the rest of the MSM online follow their example.


  55. crownarmourer says:

    pointman I hope Murdoch keeps to his paywall idea and it goes as well as I expect and he loses a substantial amount of money by it.

  56. Amanda says:

    4th of July — on the 3rd!

    I know this is Baptist country, but I was still taken aback when I learned today that Murphy, North Carolina (at the very least; I don’t know whether this applies to neighbouring towns) is celebrating the 4th of July — Independence Day, the day that gave us the formal instantiation of the United States of America, the like of which has never been since before or since — because Sunday is the Sabbath. I confess that I am not a Christian — not, moreover, a believer of any kind; but I am respectful of the great and peaceful religion that is Christianity as we know it (so please don’t tell me about the Inquisition and the dissolution of the monasteries and the Salem witch trials, because I know about all that). But I still feel that, however genuinely pious these people are, THIS is the time to render unto Caesar; and surely God would not be offended by a seemly praise of a decent and free earthly regime? I do not think so, but then again I’m not a churchgoer, merely a Westerner raised (somewhat vaguely) in the Protestant tradition. Nonetheless, I know that my parents did not invent the morality with which I was raised. And equally nonetheless, I see nothing wrong with celebrating the deep moral victory of American Independence on the very day that it happened. And so I shall be celebrating, as a naturalized American, with my native American husband, tomorrow, like the rest of the country.

  57. Amanda says:

    oops: never been seen before or since, I meant to say.

  58. Amanda says:

    Okay, we can see now from Willscott Mountain the fireworks of Andrews: so Andrews, the next town (in the most beautiful valley) is ‘observing’ the Sabbath also. At the expense of our nation’s most important day.

  59. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    G’day Oz,
    Just caught up with your response………..

    This “free trade” concept is beyond me. Isn’t the WTO currently dictating what we will and won’t import? The more treaties we sign the fewer options we seem to have.
    For example, apples from China, dismissing our fire-blight-free status, while our orchards are being bull-dozed?
    Orange Concentrate from Brazil while our orchards are being bull-dozed.
    Pork from Asia as our pigs are subject to ever-more horrendous conditions on the pretext of making them more commercially competitive.

    I just don’t geddit. We keep signing up to ever-more trade agreements that are progressively destroying our agriculture commercially and rendering local produce domestically unaffordable. Our lamb exports to the USA shot our domestic prices through the roof.
    The best of everything goes O/S, leaving the inferior “left-overs” for the domestic market. Seen a leg o’ mutton in the supermarket lately? No, everything is tagged “lamb” and we buy old sheep at lamb prices. Why would anyone save the best for the locals when export fetches huge prices elsewhere.

    Trade agreements get me cranky. Maybe that’s why I’m reeeal wary of hitching up with any more of them. Another bunch of bureaucrats telling us what we can buy and how much we’ll pay. Free market forces? I can’t see it. Just like those poor buggers in Africa labouring over cash crops for export, but struggling to feed their families.

    Free markets are about prices between traders, not consumers in the marketplace. Meanwhile food-miles increase, nutritional levels drop, and the consumer is left with a like-it-or-lump-it option. Maybe one day we’ll see a few more scenes like those Cairo housewives rioting as grain prices shot up because of bio-fuels.

    Still, what do swans know about international commerce? I think I’m better off just eating that old river-weed, it’s free……..LOL

    Free trade means an absence of tariffs, quotas or any other regulatory barriers to trade. You’re right, it’s all too easy for the bad guys to muddy the waters. And yes, the best food is the stuff you grow/brew/shoot yourself – Oz

  60. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Hi Amanda,
    Having a similar upbringing to you, I don’t geddit with the Sabbath thingy either.

    Happy Independence Day to you and Mr A, (it’s the 4th here).

    Recently there was a kerfuffle in downtown Sydney when the attendees of a major synagogue petitioned the city council to have traffic lights at a nearby intersection converted to “automatic” instead of “press- button-for-pedestrians” because they didn’t believe in doing any “work” on their sabbath. Amazing. What happens if you live in a high-rise – surely the long walk upstairs constitutes more work than pressing an elevator button.

    I’ve read where parts of orthodox NYC are no-go zones on the sabbath when you are likely to have your car pelted with rocks. I’ve always found that driving was far less energy-expending than ‘shanks pony.

    PS – the intersection light system was changed at a cost of $30,000.


  61. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    G’day Ed,
    or maybe goodnight – is that the same as “the blanket show”?

    Tassie Devils are grizzly little buggers (no offense Oz). Saw a documentary recently whereby their contagious facial tumours were linked to toxins exuded by genetically modified eucalyptus/hardwood plantations, contaminating the local water supplies. Won’t see that resolved any time soon, too much money involved.

  62. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Yes, I know what you mean, I just don’t like it.

    Settling down in your new “centre of operations” yet? Has baby Oz relented on the 3 hourly regime? When our newly-hatched cygnet suddenly decided to sleep all night after yelling non-stop for 6 months, we were still up all night in a state of panic checking on her. Now, 25 years later, it’s a little less so – but only a little….LOL

    G’day to Mrs Oz


  63. Ozboy says:

    G’day Swanny, Amanda and anyone else around.

    Swanny – just moving the books in today; I’m unpacking the new computer on Tuesday. Ozbub is getting up to around 4-hour sleeps at night now, so at least Mrs Oz and I aren’t stumbling around during the daytime like zombies.

    When I have a bit more time in a few months, I’ll put some more effort into this Commonwealth business… clearly I didn’t go into enough detail to explain myself properly; particularly in relation to how to deal with rogue states like Zimbabwe and Nigeria, and the practical implications of free-trade zones.

    But enough about that for now: I’m working on a new AGW thread; give me maybe 48 hours.

    Cheers, Oz

  64. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    BTW…re “the stuff you grow/brew/shoot yourself”…….

    When our lad was about 12 or 14, he decided he was “fascinated” by guns and nagged to be taken “shooting”. The proviso offered him was that anything he “bagged” was to be skinned, gutted and “dressed” for the pot. He lost interest.

    Same boy, at about 4, asked what his dinner “lamb” was actually made of.
    “Lamb” (the days when we could afford it LOL)
    “Yeth, that’th the name, but what ith it really?”
    “Baby sheep, lamb”.
    The colour drained from his face and a tiny voice asked if he could just eat his veggies.

    We thought we had a true vegetarian on our hands as he wouldn’t eat meat for six months. He got over it though and ten years later thought it would be “fun to go out and shoot stuff”.

    Teaching him to drive he referred to himself as a learner-driver one day. I persuaded him that in fact he was the trainee pilot of a guided missile. Gave him pause-for-thought and now he’s a good driver (fingers-ever-crossed).

    This parenting gig is the hardest job I ever had. Lots of fun though. The longed-for peace and quiet in an empty nest is sometimes deafening.

  65. crownarmourer says:

    amanda that is common practice to have the fireworks a day or two before the 4th don’t ask me why, if it was not for the heat I would try and go down to riverside park on the Mississippi and watch the fireworks, but it is a nightmare to get out of downtown afterwards.

  66. crownarmourer says:

    Was over on Damien T’s blog on the DT he has a serious Troll infestation LOL. Fabian_Delusions has been haunting Sir Norman Tebbits along with Duckham, fabian actually reads and posts on duckhams personal blog well somebody had to I suppose one day.

  67. crownarmourer says:

    ozboy as reguards Nigeria a free trade zone showed make there scamming a lot easier.

  68. Edward. says:

    Morning all,

    Apropos of nothing,
    How about this for nutty whacko ‘blue sky’ thinking:

    I do worry about the mental state of some of the warmists, here is another one:

    And get a load of this:

    PM Brown called realists, flatearthers, some would have us as ‘Holocaust’ deniers, the list is long and vitriolic and vile slanderous bollocks but what do we expect from people like Mann (did you see his mewling face, incanting, “we’re being attacked by nasty meanies called realists!”- on the beeb AGW apology the other day?), the list makers (of the ad hominen assaults on realists) are a sandwich (or three) short of a picnic IMHO, witness the above and tell me it ain’t true.


  69. Edward. says:


    I trust you are well!

    Scabrous Delusions is a Grauniad reading, lesbian (probably one legged) working for Haringey council in the social services department, she has nothing better to do, then to while her time away expounding bollocks of the highest order on the DT blog-site, she is a ‘campaigner’ for ‘truth’ and a fighter for ‘equality’ and workers rights (only if they vote Nu Labour of course!), and above all rights for immigrants.
    Who she deems, are far more deserving of state largess over the needful people of her own social class (who pay the taxes and council tax upon which her livelihood depends, not for her – the siren protestations of people who were born in the area but who cannot receive housing because they are given to Somali migrants just off the banana boat).

    You see crown, Scabrous Delusions is a Socialist and obviously superior (redolent of the National Socialist movement in Germany in the 1930s – I often think that, there are many similarities in rhetoric and tone of their respectful messages) to the rest of us proles.

    From the champagne Socialists of Hampstead Heath, the arrogance has permeated down through the ‘bohemian’ grapevine, down to Haringey and beyond, Tower Hamlets, Brent, all names to ‘conjure’ with, all bastions of PC, multiculturalism and Eco lunacy, through the over-bearing Socialist sense of ENTITLEMENT.

    Don’t it give you a cosy warm feeling inside to have these people educated and succoured by the state, hating us, our beliefs, British culture, history and traditions and on now (add insult to injury!) the state payroll!



  70. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Edward. says:
    July 4, 2010 at 4:47 pm

    G’day Ed,

    Interesting three links there……I keep getting the impression these mad pronouncements are just competing with each other to see which is going to get more ridiculous………

    Item 1 – wants to “scrub the atmosphere” of Co2, even after we have achieve Zero emissions. Wonder what they’ll do when all plant life goes into decline. Ooops.

    Item 2 – Looks like since Gore has revealed himself to be just another “dirty old man”, young Leonardo is going to take up the baton. As someone who has made a handsome living pretending to be somebody else, mouthing dialogue written by somebody else, he has all the credibility needed for the job. His target-market being the young and impressionable and of course the grannies, all bereft when the fresh-faced likable boy sank beneath the icy waves along with the Titanic. Let’s hope his latest venture goes the same way.

    And Item 3 – What a doozie! Young Veli, the quintessential geeky guy who, when he isn’t creating insane climate graphs heralding the loss of all that ice, is busily looking for the lost city of Atlantis. Good luck with that Veli.

    Hey Ed, don’t you think it’s getting really insulting for these fools to keep churning this nonsense out and think we’ll be stupid enough to believe it?

    All they really want to do is make sure there are more of them than there are of us. That’s democracy for you. Saw a vox pop on the TV news where this middle-aged woman said she would vote for our new PM because she was a redhead. Bet she loves that hunky Leo too. Stupid cows couldn’t have the vote!

  71. crownarmourer says:

    Ed pretty much got it in a nutshell, these people annoy me as they have no idea how wealth is created only how to misspend it. I remember being a white single male in the 80’s and 90’s knowing full well that social housing would NEVER be available to me. However if you stepped off a plane from Pakistan with your wife and 7 kids you would be immediately housed never having paid one day in taxes. Grrh.
    Any it galvanized me to get on in life and emigrate, however that kind of crap needs to stop in the UK, stop trying to feed and clothe the world and only encourage those immigrants that add value to the UK economy.

  72. crownarmourer says:

    Good evening Blackswan, every time someone claims to have found Atlantis for some reason the story goes nowhere like the tim ei was claimed to have found off Cuba.

  73. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    PS that should be “SHouldn’t have the vote”.

    Hi Crown,

    All that is happening out here too, in spades. Only trouble is, there’s not enough housing even for them so they’ve got ’em put up in hotels and motels.

    Heard a radio caller the other day saying he went to Brisbane recently on business and stayed in his usual $180 a night 4star hotel and found the place stuffed full of illegals, their kids rushing about the halls and playing with the elevator buttons.

    When he complained to Management they just shrugged and said they had a Govt contract. He checked out.

  74. NoIdea says:

    @ Blackswan Tasmania on July 4, 2010 at 10:05 am

    Big pharma is broken and corrupt. The game for them is to never design cures, just treatments. They are not that good at doing even this though. A glance in any direction in western medicine and all you can see is sleaze.
    The kickbacks that doctors receive are not a myth, they get paid to prescribe.
    A quick look at the standard memes shouts their intent, to diagnose through prescription, and then treat, not cure the condition.
    The following are a small collection from just one perspective on one drug/medicine.
    Remember this is all about just one treatment not cure.

    “used in the expensive Treatment Protocol
    is frequently used to treat various types
    has limited usefulness in the treatment
    it is prescribed on a speculative basis as an auxiliary treatment
    and is prescribed off-label (that is, without formal regulatory agreement) for these conditions
    It may be effective
    is widely believed to
    but is not believed to act
    there is no prohibition against a physician prescribing
    It may be effective in reducing
    continue to prescribe it for a variety of off-label purposes”

    Cui bono?
    Is it the patients who are subjected to these “off label” field trials?
    Those who suffer from the most common side effects in adult patients, which include dizziness, drowsiness, peripheral edema (swelling of extremities) and increased risk of suicidal thoughts and behaviors.
    Or those who find “Abrupt or over rapid withdrawal may provoke a withdrawal syndrome”
    Maybe it is those that, after paying $430 million in fines to settle civil and criminal charges regarding the illegal marketing in 2004 decided to carry on, even though the latest fine was $800 million, will that slow them down or stop them when profits are in the billions?


  75. crownarmourer says:

    Blackswan well at least in the USA they do not provide housing or we would have the whole population of Mexico here. It makes my blood boil, governments not willing to do anything about the problem like immediate deportation. Our leaders seem to want these people let there own governments do something about there problems not us. I think it is deliberate as we don’t vote the way they want and they always pick the countries which can provide no value to us. My father in law an economist did a study back in the 80’s or 90’s about illegal immigrants here in the USA where he proved the illegals are nothing but a net drain on resources they also sent money back home and was not spent in the local economy.
    I think rope and a long drop merits some of our leaders.

  76. crownarmourer says:

    We are also importing talent from abroad to artificially keep wages low my own CEO has a lifestyle has a lifestyle my our queen would envy, when the big upheaval happens and it will these buggers will regret what they have done. There is a storm on the horizon and all this greed will mean war death and destruction and yes they will pay.

  77. Edward. says:

    Blackswan Tasmania says:
    July 4, 2010 at 5:48 pm

    All good points sir, it simply amazes me, Di Caprio is ‘an actor’ he as you say, reads screen plays, Gielgud and Olivier were Actors.

    The metropolitan councils lie through their teeth about social housing for immigrants, we know and they know they are lying but lying for a living now is a fine art in Britain, probity? they couldn’t even spell it.
    Nu Labour tried to address the question about this, came out with some dodgy stats and once more closed the debate hinting that to question anything about social housing for immigrants was being racist.
    I have worked with Indians, Pakistanis and Africans, they are the worst racial bigots in the world!
    I challenge anyone who says hand on heart: “I have never entertained a racist thought.” they are lying……… blinded to reality.
    Racism is innate in humanity it is a defence mechanism and is part of the DNA of human beings, it is deep rooted and comes from the lizard like part, the archipallium and the limbic system the basic (lower) mammalian brain.
    This area of the brain is one which deals with self preservation, fear and hatred, racism is our primeval instinct.
    It is naive in the extreme to bluster and deny our primary senses, yes it can be hidden and controlled but when it erupts, (like it has in Kyrgyzstan recently and in China:
    it is a terrible and most destructive human trait, the veneer of civilisation is indeed a thin one.
    So what do we get?
    A layer of apparatchik Social engineers who deny publicly their own racist tendencies, who whereupon by issuing social housing to ‘immigrants with 7 kids’ cannot see the irony, that in doing so they are being racist to their own kind……good isn’t it!
    So redolent of the hypocrisy of Socialism in that, it is OK to victimise the white working class (any white race), it so wrong, that it leaves me somewhat agape with its farcical and paradoxical, irrationality.
    But that is socialism in a nutshell.


  78. Pointman says:

    ‘Climategate’, ‘Amazongate’ – when will the truth be told?


    Chris Booker still putting the boot into IPCC & WWF


  79. theendisnighnot says:

    Poimtman yes thanks be that Booker keeps up his fight for me he is so more convincing than certain others! Dontya think he looks alot like Michael Hessaltine though and have you ever seen them in the same place? I think we should be told …. mind you what do i know i think JD & Moonbat are remarkably similar or is that coz i think eveyone that went to public school looks/sounds and says the same things!

  80. theendisnighnot says:

    Ed whilst i agree with alot you say including “I challenge anyone who says hand on heart: “I have never entertained a racist thought.” they are lying……… blinded to reality” I cannot agree with what seems to be your conclusion i.e. as human beings we are somehow different in our hopes desires and approach to life just because of the pigmentation of our skin! If i’m honest i probably felt almost the same before leaving the UK 2 years ago but now i have a whole different outlook on life and the peoples of the world i’ve come across who on the whole are like you(albeit i don’t know you), me and everyone else. I think it was Bob Marley who said “the colour of your skin is as important as the colour of your eyes” Now i totallly agree about letting people into the UK who hate us and want to destroy our way of life but frankly i don’t think that is restricted to asians in general we should have had for years an immigration system the same as the aussies you get in if you can add anything to the nation and you don’t get benefits till you’ve paid some tax. If i misinterperted your message apologies

  81. Pointman says:

    theendisnighnot July 4, 2010 at 9:52 pm

    Yes, I’ve always thought he looked like Heseltine.


  82. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    theendisnighnot says:
    July 4, 2010 at 10:15 pm

    “an immigration system the same as the aussies you get in if you can add anything to the nation and you don’t get benefits till you’ve paid some tax”


    Sorry to shout friend, but I nearly fell off my chair…LOL

    I’ve seen some posts over recent months that echo similar thoughts and I can’t imagine where THAT little pearler comes from. I can only assume it’s some sort of impression fostered abroad to deter would-be mass immigration.

    It’s not true.

    One of my siblings works in the Welfare Industry and I could regale the entire planet with details of the largess extended to SOME newcomers on behalf of Australian taxpayers, but for a change, I’ll refrain from allowing my bloodpressure to blow my brains out of my ears and repeat….

    It’s not true.

  83. Pointman says:

    Swan. Cool karma from your neck of the woods …

    Fun rocknroll


  84. theendisnighnot says:

    Blackswan…. apologies just the impression we’ve always had in the UK re immigrating to Oz with points systems etc thought you couldn’t get benefits till you’d contributed OBVIOUSLY NOT…. just shows urban myths and all that sorry wasn’t trying to be disingenuous i stand corrected !

  85. Edward. says:


    Wotcha pal!

    I know you are irreligious but you should know this one:
    Matthew 7:12:

    12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

    And for gods sake! ……………..get your retaliation in first! (grin).


    @pointy did you get my email???

    Dunno if it was received, it did go though………I fink……….doh.


  86. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    No apology necessary mate, it’s just that a whole lot of characters have worked out our “system” and play it like a golden fiddle.
    They tell all their mates back home and it’s on for young and old alike.
    And bleeding us dry.

    Off to bed, G’night all.

  87. Pointman says:

    Edward. July 4, 2010 at 11:37 pm

    No Ed, nothing received yet. Go again.


  88. Edward. says:

    sent again, though short and not very sweet (grins).


  89. Pointman says:

    OT but brilliant. At least one Journo at the Guardian has grown a sense of Humour. The best of all the worst bits. The Photographer’s foot excuse is pure Argentina. I didn’t foul him, he got in the way Ref …



  90. Amanda says:

    To Crownarmourer:

    Happy 4th of July. Have you tried a funnel cake yet? They’re acceptably yummy in a basic, non-gourmet way (Mandy’s muffins wouldn’t bother to make ’em), but if you haven’t had a funnel cake of the 4th of July, you’re not a real American. Anyway they are probably less caloric than a fried you-know-what.

  91. Pointman says:

    How rock n Roll left Tasmania for Oz and then the world. The rest is history …


  92. Edward. says:


    Finally got into your thing, not many around at mo’, am off to gym.
    ‘S a bit posh for the likes of me!!!!


  93. Edward. says:

    Oh yeah, HAPPY Independence day to the US of A!

    We let you win!

    God bless uncle Sam.


  94. Pointman says:

    God bless America on it’s birthday.


  95. fenbeagle says:

    The ‘golden rule’ that you quote is not religious. It is the bases for law and civilization. The earliest recorded version, I believe comes from the Egyptian middle kingdom. Which would put it older than the Old testament, and certainly, much older than new testament Christian scriptures.
    Sadly, many people today, do not live by it at all. That it is considered to be ‘religious’…with all that that implies, does not help the situation. Please live by it, suggest it to others, joke about it even…..But do not claim it as being exclusively Christian….it is not.

  96. Amanda says:

    Hey Pointman, lovely song, thanks for sharing.

    Ed: We let you win! And everybody won in the end.

    Cheers, Amanda

  97. Pointman says:

    Amanda July 5, 2010 at 4:42 am

    Did you mean American Anthem?


  98. Amanda says:

    Pointman: Yes that’s the one.

    I like the Star-Spangled Banner, especially when it’s sung/played ‘straight up’.

  99. crownarmourer says:

    Amanda funnel cakes are fair food around here as well as pronto pups and turkey legs. However I won’t be having any today as I just pigged out on a late breakfast, sausage patties, potato cakes, scrambled eggs and english muffins all with a side of homemade chipotle salsa.
    Won’t be seeing any fireworks tonight as we are babysitting the bairn mr beanie baby.
    My daughter is in town so she will be off watching the fireworks with my stepson and his fiancee.

  100. crownarmourer says:

    amanda the national anthem is based on an english drinking song and is deliberately hard to test how drunk you were.

  101. crownarmourer says:

    fenbeagle I live by the rule “do unto others before they do unto you”. Get my revenge in preemptively so to speak.

  102. Pointman says:

    Amanda July 5, 2010 at 5:02 am

    The words say it all. America isn’t a country, it’s an idea.


  103. crownarmourer says:

    pointman then it will be ok if I think about paying the idea taxes then.

  104. fenbeagle says:

    You live by the warriors code then? Not the battle winning warriors code though, because, as every shield bearing soldier knew, that requires full co- operation with your own ‘side’ at least.

  105. Pointman says:

    Easy fen.


  106. Amanda says:

    Ozboy, I left a message for you over on your ‘About’ page (I don’t know what ‘alerts’ you get and when/if you would see it otherwise).

  107. Amanda says:

    Sorry, that was meant to be bold for the name only.

  108. Amanda says:

    Pointman: It’s an idea that it needs a country in order to work. Lofty yet real. (I sound like the Dao De Jing (Tao Te Ching): ‘straight yet bent’, ‘squiffy yet clear-eyed’ etc.

  109. Amanda says:

    Crown, your food-temperance plan for this evening sounds a good idea. Otherwise we’ll have trouble fitting you into the chat-room.

  110. Amanda says:

    Correction: ‘it’s an idea that needs….’

    What’s wrong with my eyes/brain?

  111. Pointman says:

    Amanda July 5, 2010 at 6:03 am

    Amanda, which chat-room is that?


  112. Edward. says:

    fenbeagle says:
    July 5, 2010 at 4:11 am
    It was ,meant as a very pianissimo and gentle jibe at theendisnighnot who commented in a recent thread about (and I paraphrase), ‘God botherers’.
    It is not for me to involve myself in theological and philosophical argument on religious belief, it causes too much bad feeling.
    I quoted the verse merely for the fact (and it is a fact), ‘do unto others as thy would be done to unto thyself’ is a good way to lead one’s life, if that is being religious and to your eyes it is, then so be it, whether it arises in the Bible or elsewhere is rather immaterial, do you not think?
    I am all for the quiet life, ‘God bothering’ is not my thing, evangelicals appal me, fundamentalism appals me, I do have beliefs and they are strong, more people could do with having a system, it is better than no system, empty vessels are ripe for indoctrination of valueless dogmas, socialism being one and vacuous, vacant existences lead to trouble and strife.

    If I have offended then, mea culpa.


  113. Edward. says:

    Amanda says:
    July 5, 2010 at 4:42 am

    Hello Amanda,

    It is true!!
    Hush!………….. don’t tell everyone but if had been me living in the States…..er colonies, at that time then I would have joined in with the Boston tea party.


  114. Pointman says:

    ED, Ras’s is open.


  115. Pointman says:

    I always quite liked Daft Punk but the videos their fans make are something else. Too clever by half.


  116. Amanda says:

    Pointman: I meant this blog.

  117. Pointman says:

    Thank God. I was dreading another handbag fight!


  118. fenbeagle says:

    No offence. As you say, the golden rule is not religious. Either to my eyes, or in fact. I agree with your post completely. As you say, it is simply a statement of common sense. My apology for reacting to your jest. Life would be a lot easier at the moment, if this particular sensibility was more fashionable, for its own sake. I am not, myself, religious.

  119. Pointman says:

    Fen, Ed, peace. This guy Hew you just got to like. Where’s a Scud when you need one?


  120. rastech says:

    Ugh, just tried out my shiny new cheap secondhand Baader Hyperion 21mm Eyepiece (a lovely bit of kit), and the clouds rolled in instantly, and I got eaten alive with midges.

    I’m pretty sure I got a glimpse of the Ring Nebula in a gap in the clouds though, so *thumbs up* to the 21mm! 🙂

    Summer and astronomy are a bit hard going. /sigh

  121. Pointman says:

    @Ras. I usually lay down in my yard in a sleeping bag waiting for the Perseids in Aug. It’s been overcast for so many years.


  122. Amanda says:

    Rastech, love the thought of star-gazing. Are you very advanced?; sounds as though you know what you’re looking for. I think about getting a telescope now and then, and then something comes up. (The toll-lights on the freeway right by my house come on, as well.) Maybe when I move to Florida.

  123. crownarmourer says:

    I love astronomy myself saw two comets in the 90’s, seen mercury at sunset which is usually hard to see, but when I was a child on holiday in Cornwall I remember seeing a meteor shower since there was little light pollution it was awesome. Seen an occultation between two stars which caused a stir in the 70’s.

  124. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Morning All,

    I ran your C’wealth trading bloc idea past a friend who dropped in for a cuppa and invited her to read this blog, your idea and my response etc. She spluttered over her tea and said I’d made myself sound like her granny who always referred to England as “home”, although she’d never been there, and stood to attention whenever the Queen came on the telly.

    Sheesh, I DID sound like a raging devotee of all things British, hankering for the Empire.

    Not so, not so. As a schoolkid, in 1954, we were all trundled off to see HM on her 1st visit, squished into the teeming crowds lining city streets, and THAT’s when my disillusionment began. It was pouring with rain and, from my perspective, all I saw was a forest of trouser-legs all under a canopy of black umbrellas. I saw the wheels of a black car swish by in the rain, then we were all bundled on a train and taken home again. My impression then, “is THAT all there is?”, remains with me still.

    In the years since, as I’ve driven thousands of miles over this country and learned more of our history, my affection and respect remains with British PEOPLE, not the Establishment or the Firm.

    Hundreds of miles from anywhere, you pass a derelict, sagging pioneer cottage and wonder WHO trekked into a wilderness to make their home here. Never ceases to give me pause-to-ponder on the courage and stoicism of my forebears, NOT for the System that sent/brought them here.

    It’s Systems everywhere that have me gnashing my teeth. It’s the Use and Abuse of People that stokes my fires and the AGW Fraud is probably the least of them.

    Meanwhile, I’ll put the kettle on…………….


  125. Amanda says:

    Hi gang,

    Here’s my 4th of July musical tribute: ‘Disco Inferno’ by The Trammps. It’s a freewheeling, joyful celebration of life and it’s so, so American — and dig the costumes, the shoes, the hair, the lead singer who’s all heart and soul and good fun. Funky. Fun. And everlastingly hip.

  126. Pointman says:


    I’ve always hated the monarchy, it’s the basis of the class/snob system but it’s a political conversation you will have with your kids when they’re older. One of my kids got to see the Queen visiting something locally and they were moved there en mass with a lot of other primary school children. Before she appeared, a man appeared and handed out plastic Union Jack flags. She appeared and they waved the flags enthusiastically. When she’d gone, the same man reappeared and collected up every flag. He’s hated the monarchy ever since. That’s my boy.


  127. crownarmourer says:

    One for our side…

    Lest we forget.

  128. Amanda says:


    I don’t understand half of what you’re talking about but it all sounds very exciting. Of course, light pollution is a *serious* problem. It’s even a factor out here in the Smokies.

  129. crownarmourer says:

    pointman should you ever get into an argument with the queen please use the famous last words “you and whose army”.
    Sorry I far prefer a constitutional monarchy to a lot of presidential systems around the world, even the US presidency looks like it has finally fallen in disrepute. Hopefully we may be able to salvage it.

  130. Pointman says:

    crownarmourer July 5, 2010 at 10:36 am

    Address that post at Fen.


  131. rastech says:

    I’m a bit of an astro newb Amanda. Love it though.

    Due to my eye problems I tend to avoid the bright stuff like the moon (I got arc eye from it even with a moon filter, though my addition of polarising filters since seems to have tamed it), and go for Deep Space widefield stuff – like the Perseids.

    My favourite though is the Orion Great Nebula, I can look at that for hours, it’s like a magical spiders web just hanging there in space. I bought a cheap Synta 120mm short tube refractor (it’s about the biggest I can carry on my motorbike when touring) labelled as a Skywatcher ST120 on an AZ3 mount. Hoping to take it to Hungary if I can make it back there before the end of Summer.

    For a cheap achromat refractor, it performs much better than I expected, and when viewing is excellent, I can get 200+ x magnification ok with it. The Orion Great Nebula at 150 x magnification is stunning. 🙂

    All the eyepieces I have slowly picked up cheap secondhand apart from one (which was cheap new). I’ve got two sets, one for home based around 8mm, 13mm, and 21mm Baader Hyperions, with tuning rings which give me a range of magnification from 28.5 x to 139.5 x and if 2 x Barlow’d from 28.5 x to 279 x. For touring I have a few cheap lightweight eyepieces with ok views and good eye relief, as the Baader’s are about the size of a hand grenade each and heavy – excellent value optics even new, but secondhand, even better. Too nice to be carting around all over the place.

    The last couple of months I’ve been researching the usefulness of different filters, to help me tame the light gathering power of bigger telescopes, and that’s panned out really well.

    Next step will be to get a half decent GOTO mount secondhand (I think with the financial climate there’s going to be huge amounts of such things coming onto the market, so hopefully I’ll be poised to pounce, and the last couple of weeks great value secondhand astro stuff seems to have become really difficult to sell). Then I can start looking for different telescopes cheap, learn my way around the sky better, and maybe venture into astrophotography (which can be horribly expensive if you just jump right in).

    I navigated my way back from Hungary last year with a dead satnav and no maps, just using the sun and the time of day, so I thought it was time to get a bit better at night navigation too. 😛

  132. Pointman says:


    If you “prefer a constitutional monarchy to a lot of presidential systems” what the Hell are you doing there? If you’ve deep problems with the States, why stay?

    And we whinge about foreigners in our country …


  133. Pointman says:

    There’s an alternative version of American Anthem which I didn’t post. It’s the one where we get some reminders of the blood sacrifice they did for the second time in the 20th Century


  134. crownarmourer says:

    pointman ok sorry it’s this habit of everyone just quoting all over the place hard to keep track of whom saying what.

  135. crownarmourer says:

    pointman I ended up here for reasons of the heart not economics, in case you may not have noticed I rather like the USA system imperfect that it is, I rather feel things have gotten broken and it needs repairing which is why I like the tea party movement.
    As reguards our POTUS I am one of those whom believe he is not eligible to be our President I have seen no evidence so far that would change my mind on that.

  136. rastech says:

    Well to be honest, a Presidential system is a ‘Monarchy’ – just a time limited one.

    The time is limited so Presidents spend far too much of it looting and pillaging to get as much as they can before they leave Office.

    Monarchs have already done the looting and pillaging (or their forbears have) so work out to be the far better deal . . . . . . . .

    (I think I better run away ducking and diving now . . . *grins*)

  137. Pointman says:

    You can vote for a president to get him into office. You can vote to get him out of it. With a King or Queen you get neither. I go with Democracy, imperfect though it is.


  138. rastech says:

    I go for the three fundamental forms of Govenment all balanced against each other, so the crazy political criminals can all be kept out of the faces of ordinary people.

    All with a rock solid Constitution, so if people even return a dead parrot as a representative, it can’t do any damage.

    Plus an Independent Judiciary, and adherence to the Rule of Law, of course.

    Any of the three forms of Government, unrestrained, ends up with tyranny (and I don’t like tyranny, it makes baby kittens cry and baby polar bears sneeze).

  139. rastech says:

    Strewth just seen the time – have a good one all. /waves

  140. crownarmourer says:

    pointman well this voting nonsense gave us Kennedy, Johnson, Carter, Clinton and now Obama, if we could only restrict it to Republicans I would be happier.

  141. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    rastech says:
    July 5, 2010 at 11:40 am

    “All with a rock solid Constitution, so if people even return a dead parrot as a representative, it can’t do any damage”.

    We have entire Parliaments, State & Federal, chock full of “dead parrots” only prodded to squawk on command of their Party Masters, and who/which have looted this country and brought it to it’s financial/social knees.

    KRudd and his tight gang-of-four (including Gizzard) have rammed through policies that entirely undermine parts of our Constitution and a politically appointed Judiciary serves Them not us. Natural Justice has become a notion, not a fact.

    As for the Firm, there are laws that prohibit discrimination on the basis of gender, so how can succession or inheritance be based solely on whether offspring is male or female? That’s against the law of the land isn’t it? And what’s all this grace’n’favour schtik? Prime, publicly owned real estate occupied by the rellies who figure WHO owes them a living? Don’t get me started.

  142. Amanda says:

    Do y’all think this is terribly boring/naff? I recorded it on the spur of the moment in the chalet. It’s a tiny teensy piece of manuscript, which is wonderfully original and insightful and original and entertaining (if you like that sort of thing; I’m starting to sound like Delingpole for heaven’s sake), but I don’t have the usual — academic — credentials, so it’s not published. This is the least of it, but as I said, I did it on the spur of the moment, having noticed the Webcam thing on my laptop. Thought perhaps that if the usual publishing route ain’t working, maybe I should try a blog[?] I thought maybe a ‘talkie’ like this might liven a blog up a bit. The book by the way is a ‘cultural exploration of British and American English’. So if you think I’m saying things you already know, keep in mind that my ‘audience’ (huh! I should be so lucky) is varied. That plus the fact it’s a dummy run and I’ve never used the Webcam before.

  143. crownarmourer says:

    Amanda not bad the sound was slightly out of sync which is not your fault, we used sideburns in the North of England.

  144. crownarmourer says:

    At least you didn’t tell us about Thomas Crapper’s greatest invention the flush toilet.

  145. Ozboy says:

    @Amanda – well that’s a bit of history I never knew (nice to put a voice to the face to the name btw). I once heard Paul McCartney reminisce about how John Lennon wore “sideboards” when they first met as teenagers, so I guess both were in use in the north of England at the time.

  146. crownarmourer says:

    Liverpool is not the North it’s the Midlands or more accurately part of Ireland.

  147. crownarmourer says:
    July 5, 2010 at 12:02 pm

    If the Creator had not meant for their to be political dissent and differences, He would not have given us bazookas.

    Amanda says:
    July 5, 2010 at 12:57 pm

    George Romero of “Night of the Living Dead” fame said all of us have 20 bad movies in us, so you may as well make them and get them out of your system now LOL!

    Erm, you’re selling a book project, right? There’s lots of internet resources for the creative, but at this site with the current players ( or play-ah’s, as Les Grossman would say) format, standard industrial procedures, and packaging our goodies for presentation to some one who would like to buy them theoretically, is the issue at present. I think also intellectual property rights issues are going to bite you very hard if you do not address them after you put 1,600 hours or more into making your lovely product.

    I was poking around for Oz placements for my script, and I took a look at http://www.australianshortfilms.com My thinking was to split production between my Syracuse production team and an Oz firm so that the Oz firm not only has superb entry opportunities for the final product in the States (the shop I am working with has the Mouse, Universal, Warner Bros, you name it, on their client list going back 30 years and work with them NOW). Then it is a matter of buying a loan guarantee for production contingent on a letter of intent from a distribution firm to buy our drek which in turn is contingent on our successful completion. If I sell an option on the film script on the weight of the demo, we can cover the loan guarantee. See how that works? :>p No wonder psychiatrists make a fortune in Hollywood. Only the crazy people there are sane.

    There are similar arrangements possible for books, too, Amanda. Go to http://www.aar-online.org and when you have a handle on your manuscript, or even now, send off a letter of enquiry to which one of the 400 agents listed here handle your type of product and what their submission guidelines are.

  148. Why didn’t I complete the second sentence of the second paragraph?

    Here goes. “…we would likewise avail ourselves of highly talented and skilled and motivated Oz workers in the animation field at a price which is, allowing for the currency differential, about a third off what the rates are here, plus we are looking at a different set of standards –I think higher– of ethical dealings, as not only is Oz Oz, but dealing internationally commercial attaches are very good at kicking butt for free with a level of effectiveness you cannot buy, even from Les Grossman’s evil friends. And this works both ways.”

  149. Further to the subject of this blogspace, a functional Commonwealth Preference system could be sorted out WITHOUT government intervention in the form of a commercially-backed discount programme working with Chambers of Commerce who would like to play. Commonwealths are about common wealth, sharing turfs for mutual profit and gain, not mincing prancing in uniforms and flags. It’s to make money that partnerships are made or broken.

    Maybe a biz club called Commonwealth Inc. which operated like the old World Trade Centre Inc., with deals listings like on my site which links to the Israel Ministry of Industry and Trade B2B site, which is a madhouse deal a minute globally, would do the trick. It’s like “Racing Times” for international trade: gentlemen, place your bets, that sort of thing, except it’s for foreign trade.

    Effing governments don’t lead, anyway, they follow, when it comes to business.

  150. izen says:

    Edward. says:
    July 4, 2010 at 11:37 pm
    “Matthew 7:12:
    12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets. ”

    As Fenbeagle has pointed out this is a universal social principle that has emerged in all societies because ‘tit-for-tat is the most efficient strategy for social stability.

    I always liked George Bernard Shaw’s modification –
    Don’t do unto others as you would have them do unto you – their tastes may differ.

  151. crownarmourer says:

    Walt the golden does not apply when Cthulhu rises and drives us all insane or in my case no difference and destroys us all.

  152. fenbeagle says:

    Yes ‘tastes’ differ too, as Shaw points out. Not necessarily an easy principle to apply, then. But some times more obvious than others, even so?

  153. ScouseBilly says:

    crownarmourer says: July 5, 2010 at 1:40 pm

    Liverpool is North West England but also happens to be capital of North Wales.

    Then again perhaps it’s as much an idea as a place 😉

  154. Walt O'Brien says:

    Amanda says:
    July 5, 2010 at 12:57 pm

    One thing people do not pick up on when they first decide to stand in front of a camera the first time is that actors and announcers talk twice as fast or more than the standard conversational pace. Otherwise, people drop off to sleep or start throwing things, which latter I think is why they invented webcams LOL! Re-do it talking twice as fast. Helps if you do the total word count then use a stopwatch or egg timer. Pro’s learn how to use visual metronomes which are blinking lights and all other sorts of toys like teleprompters. Um, it’s an art so don’t feel bad if you do not pick it up the first time out. Makes one appreciate how hard announcers and actors work at things, though, dunnit?

    And yes, it was so horrible and naff I think I will shoot myself…again! BANG.

    Ah. I feel better already. (Just kidding :>)

  155. Walt O'Brien says:

    Crownie, I want Cthulhu for Prezident. At least you know where Octopusface is coming from. Do you think there will eve be a stock market tomorrow (today), or are they closed then, too?

  156. Caridnor says:

    Just a reminder folks, you need to vote on http://yourfreedom.hmg.gov.uk to repeal the Climate Change 2008 act- there are relatively few votes so far and they are spread over several iterations of the same idea.
    If the voting gets high enough on one of these I suspect the moderators will close the other entries and concentrate the voting in one place. This is what seems to have happened with the abolition of IR35.
    Where is RR with his list when you need him? Can someone post this on the DT who can sign on, at James’ site and C. Booker etc.??

  157. manonthemoor says:

    Good morning/day/evening all as appropriate

    Logged on to the other meaningful site (Thanks rastech and pointman)

    It has taken me two and a half days just to catch up on just ozboy’s site and having seen what has gone on over at the DT I may not even bother to look too hard let alone comment.

    With regard to comments about JD/Oz blogs I see no reason why they should not both continue and a process of natural selection will apply. I recognise the concerns of both msher and RealityReturns in particular but things are moving on and the DT seems unlikely to change anytime soon, I suspect there is a conflict of policy and advertising revenue which my be resolved by ‘follow the money’ or ‘the boss says’.

    Clearly Oz has provided an excellent welcome mat and long may it continue, already I am happier in Ozland than the DT since we understand the rules. Talking of rules the quality of the discussion is excellent and more than meets a happy and friendly criteria.

    The word contributions by Walt, Pointman, Scud1 and NoIdea are excellent and add a whole new dimension to the blog, talking of dimensions how brave is Amanda? Well done Amanda I encourage you and others to keep trying out your ideas since one day such skills can be used to the benefit of the anti AGW campaign.

    Lunch now more later.

  158. manonthemoor says:

    With regard to rastech’s site, I think even from a cursory point of view it has great potential to act as the technical and archive side of things as well as the social side.
    I encourage ALL to join the rastech site as well, since I expect things there, that may not be published elsewhere!!!

    By the way ‘I dont know’ and ‘Banana’ did not work for me I had to obey the set questions, I was caught out by the password requirements of combined upper/lower case letters plus numbers however.

    I noted also a comment by Oz about things being rather quiet at present, as it is summer, long days, holidays and gardening in the UK, I am not surprised, and the time taken just to keep up is quite significant.

    We all deserve a break sometimes and we can gather our ideas and inspirations for another attack on the AGW front.




  159. Pointman says:

    Amanda July 5, 2010 at 12:57 pm

    Brilliant. More please on whatever subject takes your fancy. Reminds me of AJP Taylor’s history lectures on the BBC.

    and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnkZ4o7C-DE&feature=related

    if you want to know more about him.


  160. rastech says:

    Aye MOTM, those are answers to two of the range of set questions. The others should be easy to sort.

    As for ‘the technical and archive side of things as well as the social side’, the whole thing was set up to be complementary to the facilities with Oz, etc. Useful info you want to keep easily available, you can park it there in a personal notepad, or build it up with a useful forum subject (which can be stickied to keep it to the top).

    It’s easy to PM each other, have a chat, use the media facilities, etc.

    Oz could also do his own forum as well, like have have done for Karl Denninger’s Tickers (I got Karl’s ok for that by the way, and he was well chuffed), so he can add links to his current blog, with a taster cut and paste from it, and also if he wishes broaden the discussion there, to help prevent posting limits being hit here where the blog gets a bit slow due to the numbers of postings. This could relieve any untimely pressure to create a new blog if he is busy at that time, for example.

    If you want that facility Oz, just holler, and I’ll get it set up, and you can moderate it yourself.

  161. rastech says:

    By the way, speaking of Karl, have a look at this Ticker he’s done – he’s caught the Market Manipulation that’s been going on. It’s an eye opening video at the link:


  162. fenbeagle says:

    July 5, 2010 at 7:57 am

    Your Trebuchet video was fun. I have a friend who makes historically accurate weapons for the film industry. Who then make less accurate copies to use in the actual films. Correctly weighted and balanced broadswords, for instance. hand beaten and folded from traditionaly produced steel etc.
    He made a Trebuchet to order, and a proper stone ball for ammunition……Which embedded itself so deeply into a field, on test firing, that it had to be abandoned!
    taking some large arbulest Crossbows through Customs…..(But without the wind back mechanisms), a French Customs man tried to make the point that they could be drawn back and fired. And so after a long attempt to prove his point, the red faced official had to concede that no, actually, you cannot!

  163. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Amanda says:
    July 5, 2010 at 12:57 pm

    What an unexpected pleasure to have you chatting to us directly.
    What are your plans? An actual blog in general on various topics or a blog presenting your language book specifically?
    Was it you who told us a while back that you’re a singer? If so, try out your web-cam on that too. That would really liven the blog up.

    Good wishes on all your innovative ideas.

  164. Pointman says:

    fenbeagle says:
    July 5, 2010 at 11:22 pm

    Trebuchets, catapults can be made out of anything http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXHdAXcWab4 !


  165. Edward. says:


    Hey lady, very brave, bravo!

    We have always used the term ‘sideburns’ in the part of England where I was born, it was a popular look in the seventies but is now not so much seen on gentlemen these days, designer stubble is popular now because of lack of rasoirs or indolence.


  166. Pointman says:

    @Ed, @Amanda – The kids call them “mungos” these days. I kid you not. Can you guess why before clicking the link?


  167. Edward. says:

    Easy peasy!


  168. Pointman says:

    I’m over at ras’


  169. izen says:

    for the extreme end of sideburns/boards the orthodox jews of certain sects take some beating. I gather that one interpretation of the Torah is “Do not trim the corners of your beard” – ?!
    The result is a single ringlet at leat a foot long growing from just in front of the ear with a large-brimmed black hat. I don’t know if there is more to the rule but the rest of the beard often looks as if it has been trimmed, but with a flint knife and no mirror.

    The women are also under injunction to cover their heads and show no hair to any but their husband. (What IS the problem religions have with hair?!) They usually solve this by wearing a well coiffured wig. Better than the islamic hajib, but it does seem like cheating, following the letter if not the spirit of the law…

  170. Walt O'Brien says:

    Relative to my earlier post at July 5, 2010 at 4:05 pm, I think the Commonwealth is just a forgotten resource no one knows still exists. I do not even think it is spoken of in British schools LOL! Also, people are too lazy anymore do what is needed to be done, and will inevitably let things go until they have no choice to be rigorous (and violent and desperate and and pointlessly “political,” as in the 1960’s, which weren’t political at all, they were just days of bullying bombast shouting down Right Reason, as is today). I don’t know if that applies to Oz, and I seriously doubt that it does, based on my cursory review of Oz personal achievement by individuals, but one need only compare advertising regimes for the USA and the UK versus the Orient. Going through sample TV ad’s by studios online, Vietnamese and Japanese TV ad’s are paced light-years per second faster than USA or UK ad’s, it’s as if we in the West were being put upon to be zombies. It is quite the same story with classical music, too, of all things: my favourite Russian and Modernist Austrian stuff is conducted at literally less than half the pace of their Asian interpretations.

    At the same time the West’s economies are tanking, inky-binky, no-resources, surrounded-by-enemies, UN-harassed, started-from-one-rope-tied-cardboard-suitcase-and one-motheaten-suit Israel has seen nonstop no less than 4.5% GDP growth per fiscal quarter since 2003 or so, while still fully subsidizing with a special personal tax on all Israelis easily the most lazy (and most hated by other Arab nations for this very reason) parasitic non-state on the planet, the Frankensteinian Authority. You don’t see their crowd shots anymore on the news because PA people are FAT. They are the fattest Mosleys anywhere. All on Israel’s ticket.

    Maybe we deserve to starve and see our civilization fold. If it does, it is entirely because it has been cajoled and bullied into committing suicide en masse. Hunt Day should be devoted to hunting newsies, IMHO. Ta-ra and tallyho!

    There’s no reason the Commonwealth ought to be idle as a massive trade bloc except human laziness. It is a New York Stock Exchange with no one showing up since 1949. The only reason its members want to do us harm is they themselves do not see why we let it die. I do not either. It is despicable that it has. Doing what us Yanks and the Russians and Red China and the Arabs want you to do won’t buy you 15 seconds of mercy when the chips are down. How well you already know that.

  171. Walt O'Brien says:

    The other bit which relates to the idle Commonwealth money spinning machine is that the only way the AGW Bizarro World debt creation machine is going to be stopped is to take down the finances of Western and Mosley religious institutions, as their pension funds and political spending on non-elected social control mechanisms are entirely what has created the myth of AGW as a scheme which looks to foist yet another generation’s debt onto the next one with no provision made for honest debt service, not even inflationary debt burying LOL! A new Martin Luther has to take down the present one, and a new Mohammed, and a new Reformation, and a new Charles II.

    It is entirely a religious conflict, and nothing less. It is idle vanity to think otherwise. To approach it otherwise is to go after the symptoms. Any Russian will tell you the only reason communism lasted 75 years and more is church subsidization paid for out of little old grandmas’ poverty-level employment providing floor-scrubbing and toilet-cleaning 10% and 20% of their gross earnings. There are many within the various denominations who feel the very same way, yet blow off that positive energy through clanging swords with other denominations when they all share the same problem.

    Everyone thinks things have changed since the Inquisition and Cromwell and Cotton Mather in Boston. They have not. It is worse, and they’ve far larger budgets, and data processing has handed them powers the likes of which they have never had, and they are using them.

    It is silly to think this is the age of triumph for secularism. Secular rationality on one hand is marginalised at the same time “we know what’s right for you” mirror-image theocrats in the go-hating business emulate the very institutions they seek to destroy LOL!

    You want to clobber AGW, you go after the pension funds obsessive compulsive and totally correct Captainsherlock identified in exhaustive detail. I would do so based on pointing out the bad economics in detail with effing wall sized flow charts.

    BTW, I don’t know that the movie link at rastech’s site is of any use at all except to provide one more source of noise scaring the kitties out of the kitchen. Anyone knows these things go in cycles. It is idle folly to think the end of the world is nigh: I can guarantee it will not end until every last credit card has been paid down. If the credit card companies cannot get you to pay because you are dead, they will sell your body for medical experiments. We all know it is bad, or worse than the 1980’s, in any event. What’s needed is ideas, not buggers making a fortune, like Cafe Mocha Moore, out of other people’s misery selling tickets to monster movies not much more sophisticated than “Plan 9 from Outer Space.”

  172. Walt O'Brien says:

    izen says:
    July 6, 2010 at 2:57 am

    Having a large circle of Orthodox Jewish friends in Five Towns, Queens, it is a matter of some hilarity amongst them the extent to which each uniform of the various sects still reflects the nuances and particularities of the individuals inside their clothing. The object of letting the beards grow is to commemorate and mourn the fall of the Second Temple, and when the third is built, there are going to be lots of happy and put-upon barbers worldwide LOL! I can also assure izen that flint blades are not used to shave and trim. LOTS of time and expense goes into trimming and curling pie-yoze (phonetically spelled), exactly once a month. It also makes for instant democracy, just add ideas and stir. Jews invented hatred of class divisions. I am trying to think of one pro-democracy social revolutionary who if non-Jewish didn’t use the Jews as their point of reference. I cannot think of one. Even rabid Lutheran anti-Semites like Marx was more than grudgingly praiseful and enthusiastic about truckloads of Jewish concepts as related to social reform; that Jews bought into his line of crap earned them the betrayal they got in profusion from both the socialisms.

    Even militaries have a hard time getting their troops to refrain from adding little nuances and “I am me” statements to their kit. Priests and nuns do the same bit, too.

    The hair bit for women in Orthodox communities also saves epochs of time in the course of the day freeing up time to work. I know lots of non-Jewish women who wear wigs for the same reason, they demand to look their best all the time yet don’t want to spend a lot of time and money on it. What’s cheaper, $700-1,000 a year on wigs or $3-4,000 on parlours, shampoos, dyes, conditioners, hair dryers, etc, etc.? Don’t get my business mentor’s wife going on the subject LOL!

    Wish I owned stock in a wig company, come to that. It’s one of those enterprises which rarely tank owing to demand going in the opposite direction of the economy.

    If you’re lazy, just say it, Izen, don’t diss those who aren’t. Jews don’t get over. They work for what they have, same as you. If they don’t blow it on booze, divorce, dope and other baloney that’s their lookout. Come to that, plenty of them do, too, and shame on them when they do.

  173. Walt O'Brien says:

    I’ll say this much: it isn’t the Orthodox Jewish community that buys into AGW. It’s blasphemy of the highest order to them. Check out Genesis 13:16. The Creator forfending from drowning humanity again and instead letting us sort it out is one of the cornerstones of Jewish theology which “Xmas Tree” Jews get ulcers over. There’s not a dime of Orthodox Jewish money in AGW related pension funds, and no Orthodox Jewish managers of AGW pension funds, either. That is where captainsherlock is entirely full of dogsh*t. If he knew any Orthodox Jews, he would know. They spotted AGW as BS eons before BP bankrolled the first renewable energy division (which they have since closed) of a major energy firm in 1994.

    Professor Arnie (Aryeh) Gottfried is Canada’s first internationally certified ecologist (it is a licenced profession, believe it or not, you aren’t one just because you say you are one, with core mandatory academic requirements), winner of many scientific awards and kudos, and a Lubavitcher. We worked together on a few projects back in 2002-5. I’ll dig up his Website for your amusement and edification.

    AGW is not a Jewish idea. AGW ransacking of humanity is not a Jewish idea. It is alcohol and drug fueled, book-burning oogah-boogah insanity of which Torquemada and Martin Luther and Buddha and Mao and Mohammed and Cthulhu would sincerely approve. Baron de Rothschild has nothing to do with it except to stare at someone yammering about it at a cocktail party holding his flute of mineral water, bobbing his head courteously and saying, “That’s nice.”

    Instead, Jews plant trees. They are nuts about it. They even have an annual religious holiday festival which goes back many centuries where trees are ceremoniously planted with dancing and songs. No doubt a vestige of some pre-Jewish fertility ritual, having been to one of these celebrations LOL! Lotsa fun. Too much, sometimes.

  174. Walt O'Brien says:


    This is as radical as Orthodox Judaism gets on the subject of AGW. Some conspiracy. Ask Arnie sometime if he wants to take over the world. His eyes will light up and he will say, “Yes ! Yes! I dream every night of having to control six billion people as my slaves!”

    His day job is running with his brothers one of Ontario’s leading small bespoke landscaping companies. He does his own spadework. Hands like banjos. It he were tall enough, he could lift me up off the floor with one hand by grabbing me by the top of my head and squeezing to get a handhold. He has a library with facsimiles of Capability Brown’s notebooks he uses as models, along with the French masters and other works on the subject.

    Just so you know.

  175. Walt O'Brien says:

    Oh, I neglected to mention, he also has 11 kids all by the same wife. Thirty years together, so far. Happy as a clam.

  176. scud1 says:

    Morning /afternoon / evening everyone.

    Most excellent posts as usual.

    I read somewhere yesterday that Dr Richard North is expecting ‘something extraordinary’ from the Muir Russell ‘inquiry’ on Wednesday. Intriguing, particularly as there appears to be something of a flurry of arse covering going on…Like Fred Pierce’s article in the Guard’ yesterday.
    One comment on which I thought was bloody brilliant…

    5 Jul 2010, 2:17AM
    JBowers: “In order to know for a fact what was going through Briffa’s mind, I guess you used astral projection, remote viewing, telepathy… or a horoscope?”

    “Quite the contrary, I read it in one of the liberated emails. Here is Briffa:

    “I know there is pressure to present a nice tidy story as regards ‘apparent unprecedented warming in a thousand years or more in the proxy data’ but in reality the situation is not quite so simple. We don’t have a lot of proxies that come right up to date and those that do (at least a significant number of tree proxies ) some unexpected changes in response that do not match the recent warming. I do not think it wise that this issue be ignored in the chapter.
    For the record, I do believe that the proxy data do show unusually warm conditions in recent decades. I am not sure that this unusual warming is so clear in the summer responsive data. I believe that the recent warmth was probably matched about 1000 years ago.”

    I guess this is the moment when you start lashing out at non-cultists for being ignorant.”

    He he…that shut him up.

    Yeah, anyway wonder what it’ll be…probably just being sarcastic and we can expect another bulk delivery of whitewash.
    Pointman my man. Tried again to get into Rastech’s blog but for some reason or other I can’t. Doesn’t seem to like any of my passwords.

    That human catapult thing…blimin’ ‘eck! Think I might buy a ticket for my Mums birthday…

  177. scud1 says:

    Hi Walt.

    It’s gone very quiet this side of the pond re: the Gulf of Mexico…what’s the latest from the MSM state side?
    Hey…are you still off the ciggies? My consumption seems to be getting worse as time goes by.

  178. Pointman says:

    Scud – the password HAS to have upper and lowercase letters AND numbers. Go again.


  179. scud1 says:

    Gotcha my friend.

  180. Edward. says:


    The man!
    I’ve had no end of trouble getting into ras’s tardis, it is a case of persisting and frustrationa and aarrrrrgghhhh, I did it in the end…….had to……..otherwise pointy was gonna shoot me(grin).
    Did you have a er…..what was the cricket like?
    Your take on the Beeb propaganda shite was so good;
    “Laugh!!…. I nearly shat” as Derek would say Clive:>)))


  181. manonthemoor says:

    Pointman says:
    July 6, 2010 at 5:33 am

    I have added a few thoughts over at ras’s

  182. Edward. says:

    I have read them.


  183. Walt O'Brien says:

    scud1 says:
    July 6, 2010 at 5:32 am

    Hello, scudmeister. As it stands, the MMS is reconfiguring after having canned a zillion of their staff LOL! Their new site can be reached by going to http://www.mms.gov

    There are two stories, the MSM and what I get from the energy trade journals. Between the lines of the latter, it reads like this: no one can believe their dumb luck in finding in one place enough fuel to tell everyone to take a step backwards and go Kennedy themselves, but the key is to sort out how to settle up with BP amicably while doing the needed dirty on the Deepwater Horizon boneheads. Truth to tell, BP has been pressing to disengage from its USA division (the old Amoco, which was and is now a disaster owing to untenable expectations of dividend return put against cost of operations here in the USA). The bottom line: BP USA will be divested and probably end up a quasi-state-owned operation until it can stand on its feet, the engineering particulars for doing it right (as they are doing in Oz now and Viet Nam with Conoco Philips) putting in relief wells first, THEN drilling the main wellhead), and then everyone get out of the way because it will be rock-and-roll time in the Gulf and elsewhere. All this while trying to keep the spot price of oil and natural gas high enough to maintain cost justification for renewables, of which most will be slashed to bits unless the local political regimes as opposed to national can step in.

    The sane solution for the latter is to do a non-intuitive thingie, which is to just cut off the derivatives traders, move all procurement wholesale of crude by Presidental decree to prompt call, same as cash, with no future action at all like it was prior to 1983, let oil hit 17 to 20 a barrel again wholesale but tack on a 100% excise tax on that wholesale to keep it at around 30-40 bucks, and then we have two things: a revenue stream to pay down the National Debt if committed to that exclusively, a growth in the petroleum market domestically instead of it shrinking (who can handle 2 buck a gallon at the pump, please? A buck and a quarter a gallon and everyone will be bopping to the car tunes again), and the renewables that need a jumpstart but will pay down will still be preserved. Kennedy the Middle East. Kennedy Chavez. 17 a barrel or bust!

    Yes, I AM still smoke free, and Scud1, I have to tell you, I get more nicotine buzzy-wuzzies out of these electronic bar stewards than I remember off marijuanahootchie formaldehyde, except I am not buzzed, just focused and ticking over like a Ford 427 C.I. hemi on the dragstrip line. Nicotine and caffeine created the novel, the symphony, science, figurative art and democracy out of the ability they impart to one to focus and contemplate, IMHO.

    And electronic ciggies taste so good. Mmmmm. No spitting, no hacking, no mess, no stink, and for under a hundred bucks I have enough nictoine kit to last until Xmas. (There is NO excise or luxury tax on this stuff).




    And in the UK and the Ewe, you can even get pipes for e-smoking. Oooo.


    I use E-Luma brand, but there are dozens. Just make sure you get the right charger and a few extra batteries and atomizers, and Bob’s you uncle. Eight weeks now, and not a glimmer of a desire to go back, and I have been smoking since 1964.

    My skin is plumpy pink not corpse-like anymore. I have LOTs of reserve energy. My teeth are whitening up. My gums don’t feel fishy or ache anymore. I can skip a meal without screaming inside. Most importantly, my eyes feel much ,much better. Smoking can make you go blind, and I think most of my retina problems not related to welding flash relate to the ciggies. No more chest pains, back to doing pushups and REALLY long walks.

    Not to be a nut about it, and I shoot anti-smoking nazis just for target practice (mentally), but these buggers really work for me. Yummy and non-toxic. Nicotine is not the culprit, it is everything else. I wish I could get the tobacco Samuel Johnson could get. I would be smoking that.

  184. Walt O'Brien says:

    Agggh! I posted too many links again and am thus awaiting moderation. Duh.

    Sorry, Scud1. This always happens when I reply to your posts LOL!

  185. Walt O'Brien says:

    scud1 says:
    July 6, 2010 at 5:32 am


    Hello, scudmeister. As it stands, the MMS is reconfiguring after having canned a zillion of their staff LOL!

    There are two stories, the MSM and what I get from the energy trade journals. Between the lines of the latter, it reads like this: no one can believe their dumb luck in finding in one place enough fuel to tell everyone to take a step backwards and go Kennedy themselves, but the key is to sort out how to settle up with BP amicably while doing the needed dirty on the Deepwater Horizon boneheads. Truth to tell, BP has been pressing to disengage from its USA division (the old Amoco, which was and is now a disaster owing to untenable expectations of dividend return put against cost of operations here in the USA). The bottom line: BP USA will be divested and probably end up a quasi-state-owned operation until it can stand on its feet, the engineering particulars for doing it right (as they are doing in Oz now and Viet Nam with Conoco Philips) putting in relief wells first, THEN drilling the main wellhead), and then everyone get out of the way because it will be rock-and-roll time in the Gulf and elsewhere. All this while trying to keep the spot price of oil and natural gas high enough to maintain cost justification for renewables, of which most will be slashed to bits unless the local political regimes as opposed to national can step in.

    The sane solution for the latter is to do a non-intuitive thingie, which is to just cut off the derivatives traders, move all procurement wholesale of crude by Presidental decree to prompt call, same as cash, with no future action at all like it was prior to 1983, let oil hit 17 to 20 a barrel again wholesale but tack on a 100% excise tax on that wholesale to keep it at around 30-40 bucks, and then we have two things: a revenue stream to pay down the National Debt if committed to that exclusively, a growth in the petroleum market domestically instead of it shrinking (who can handle 2 buck a gallon at the pump, please? A buck and a quarter a gallon and everyone will be bopping to the car tunes again), and the renewables that need a jumpstart but will pay down will still be preserved. Kennedy the Middle East. Kennedy Chavez. 17 a barrel or bust!

    Yes, I AM still smoke free, and Scud1, I have to tell you, I get more nicotine buzzy-wuzzies out of these electronic bar stewards than I remember off marijuanahootchie formaldehyde, except I am not buzzed, just focused and ticking over like a Ford 427 C.I. hemi on the dragstrip line. Nicotine and caffeine created the novel, the symphony, science, figurative art and democracy out of the ability they impart to one to focus and contemplate, IMHO.

    And electronic ciggies taste so good. Mmmmm. No spitting, no hacking, no mess, no stink, and for under a hundred bucks I have enough nictoine kit to last until Xmas. (There is NO excise or luxury tax on this stuff).

    And in the UK and the Ewe, you can even get pipes for e-smoking. Oooo.


    I use E-Luma brand, but there are dozens. Just make sure you get the right charger and a few extra batteries and atomizers, and Bob’s you uncle. Eight weeks now, and not a glimmer of a desire to go back, and I have been smoking since 1964.

    My skin is plumpy pink not corpse-like anymore. I have LOTs of reserve energy. My teeth are whitening up. My gums don’t feel fishy or ache anymore. I can skip a meal without screaming inside. Most importantly, my eyes feel much ,much better. Smoking can make you go blind, and I think most of my retina problems not related to welding flash relate to the ciggies. No more chest pains, back to doing pushups and REALLY long walks.

    Not to be a nut about it, and I shoot anti-smoking nazis just for target practice (mentally), but these buggers really work for me. Yummy and non-toxic. Nicotine is not the culprit, it is everything else. I wish I could get the tobacco Samuel Johnson could get. I would be smoking that.

  186. Walt O'Brien says:

    YOu have probably figured out there is much more to the Gulf bit than meets the eye, but I don’t think any of it is ominous. It has to do with sorting out how best to craft relationships with foreign concerns wanting to do business here in the States, issues that have never been correctly sorted out. This is a venue for doing just that, and that is what most of the holdup is about.

    That info is for adults only. I am sick of hearing about alien submarines out to insert probes in orifices of gulf shrimp and Bayou Cajun fiddle players like Buckwheat Zydeco, king of all what am in de bayoux (c’set vrai, mon ami!):

  187. Pointman says:

    Hi Walt,

    Stop posting about the demon weed. It’s just your subconscious at work …


  188. scud1 says:

    Ha Haar…Oz’s blog is smasharoony (kill ‘im! The little jug eared, spoilt twat)

    “Laughed? I nearly shat. I have not laughed so much since Grandma died or aunty Mable caught her left tit in the mangle”…Oh God. Got to get the full set again. D&C are and always will be the best…Yeah, still can’t log onto rastech’s. I’ll have the misses working on it full time tomorrow night (the web site that is).
    Cricket was predictable. Our blokes didn’t really seem overly keen on a victory…kind of boring and slightly uncomfortable, sitting in the top ranks of the Edrich stand getting sun burnt and sweaty.

    Hi Walt…Yes, where the hell is all this oil going? The BBC would be the first with ruined beaches etc but we just don’t see them.
    Hmm…thinking I may take up this E ciggie malarkey.

    Night everyone.

  189. izen says:

    A couple of points about the Warner blog essay.
    First, while the change in public opinion (and media reporting) may alter policy responses it wil have exactly no effect on the scientific FACT of global warming and the best scientific THEORY of its cause. Nature gets the one and only say on that score. I would say more on how best to determine what nature does say, if anyone wants to pursue it. But as basic background try –


    The Ethics of Belief (1877)
    William Kingdon Clifford

    Second, Mike Hulme is an unreliable witness, he has clearly been infected with the crass sociology meme that science is a social construct. His pronouncements as a result are a farrago of nonsense which is prone to confirmation bias. By both sides.
    Warner is guilty of this I suspect in constructing a case for doubt on AGW theory from Hulme’s remarks on models. It betrays a lack on understanding of the epistemological status of such modeling. To be fair such a mistake is also sometimes made by the modelers. Climate models are NEVER going to provide the kind of certainty that politicians and the public might want, of have been led to expect from some commentators, and from other types of computer modeling.

    Computer modeling of engineering is commonplace, and people expect that before a complex engineering project is built, (plane, bridge etc) it has been comprehensively modeled to ensure that it will work in a predictable manner.

    Climate modeling is part of a different tradition in modeling complex systems. To co-opt the terminology, like ecosystems and metabolic/genetic systems it not only has known unknowns, it has unknown unknowns and is never more than a way of making a better Baysian ‘A Prior’. Computer models indicate where to look in the real system for key indicators, and help to establish clearly defined limits of doubt and uncertainty (grin) but they are not capable of eliminating those inherent uncertainties. Partly because some are inherent in the system, the ENSO ‘cycle’ is almost certainly an entrained chaotic process, and some uncertainties are external to the model like actual carbon use in the future, and volcanic/solar variations.

    This makes them epistemologically unsuitable as EITHER falsification or validation criteria for any theory, they can be an effective way of exploring the limits and uncertainties that derive from a theory and indicate useful paths of investigation. But both ‘sides’ are making a category error in seeing them as useful as a means of judging the basic legitimacy of a theory rather than just enhancing its specificity.

    An example from another field. A computer model of the human metabolism that predicts weight gain with increased calorie intake may be judged a good model if it accurately simulates the process described in the theory that makes this prediction. The strength of the model is judged greater if it matches real world data of actual weight gain. But that ONLY validates the model as a good representation of the theory. It has at best a rather indirect influence on making the THEORY more credible. If the theory is an accurate description of all the factors involved and a good explanation of how they work to produce an end result, then making a good model of the theory can indicate which real world factors are going to be a good test of the theory, but it isn’t a test of the theory itself.

    Computer models are a way of finding out how to look for the unknown unknowns, or at least putting constraints on how much influence they can have on the actual measurable data.
    Only nature gets a say in refuting (or confirming) theories.

  190. Pointman says:


    I never thought of you as a finger in the dyke type but it takes all kinds.


  191. Edward. says:


    Bless you, good night sir!!


  192. izen says:

    @ Walt –

    Thank you for that extensive description of your experience and views of the orthodox jewish community. Most of the background information I was familiar with. Of the 3 places I work in one has mezuzahs on all the doors….
    Their traditions of communal cooperation and individual loyalty and responsibility is admirable. Their insularity less so.

    Like most religious dogmatics, the degree of antagonism is inversely proportional to the degree and distance of their doctrinal differences. They may dislike the ‘liberal’ jewish synagogues and deny they are ‘true’ jews, but their real hatred is (like catholics and Presbyterians) reserved for schismatics from within their own ranks.

    I still find the religious preoccupation with rules on hair peculiar, anybody have an insight into why its considered so important?

  193. izen says:

    Pointman says:
    July 6, 2010 at 9:29 am
    I never thought of you as a finger in the dyke type but it takes all kinds.

    Its the pacifist way of dealing with the cap’ns assassins….
    Or a way of dealing with the rising sea levels.

  194. Ozboy says:

    @Walt, izen

    You may find this local story of some interest. We’ve never had anything quite like it down here before.

  195. Walt O'Brien says:

    Pointman says:
    July 6, 2010 at 7:10 am

    Actually, I think it is my cerebral functioning sorting itself out in response to the massive shock of not getting any of what poisons it was used to, in the form of proper memories of the pre-1972 days, which oddly are re-surfacing, including olfactory and tactile memories, fabric textures, etc. Sort of like having a stroke in reverse LOL! Nice, though. Anyone else miss their beatup British racing green VW beetle with the eight-track player? Don’t think this process will get rid of the “floaters” in my line of sight, though. Hopefully they will dissolve. This DOES seem to have stopped the degeneration process, or at least the stars and flashes when I stand up fast which are associated with wet AMD.

    My July 2009- July 2010 market survey experiment which is my Website has a years’ worth of Cpanel statistics now, and the verdict as to how engineering academia and the industrial sector are going to address the forthcoming wave of carbon shakedowns is to simply make megatonnes of steel for export, with the Russian Federation at the top, India second, UK third, in terms of gross number of downloads by file and random sampling of IP addresses to see who it was who downloaded.

    The USA downloads are almost exclusively college students “doing their engineering homework” LOL! You can get partial college credit on a term paper as a student, apparently, for simply referencing Websites.

    I am not surprised, as where else is there 2400 degree C heat all day long to fuel CO2+ H20 to CO and H2 and hence to CH4 + H20 processes? Dates back to Bessemer’s day, but it works. A bit funny, as the whole idea of the AGW BS was and is to smash industry. Instead the best way to make Paunch Awry types go away is to set up a new steel mill or chemical plant. Ripping, wot? Love the smell of a crucible pour. Smells like victory.

    Again, I still say the AGW investment monsters are going to push ahead regardless. All those pension funds are kaput unless they can pull off another delegation to the next generation offload of debt Ponzi trick. Lots of “respectable gentlemen” are going to be lying their scientific arses off to save their pensions and those of their universities, churches, hospitals, and governments. Follow the money.

    It’s like saying the Shroud of Turin was just a shred of fabric acid-burned by the acetic acid (vinegar) they pickled Jesus when the year happened to be 1492 and you were in Ferdinand’s and Isabella’s Spain. Things really haven’t gotten too stooopid yet, though. It’s going to take a bankrupt social safety net in a few Western countries to bring Torquemada back, in which case we’ve done an ace job of putting bull’s-eyes on our backs, which is par for the course for me. Been doing that since bellbottom days LOL! Not always by choice, mind you….

    Does Oz still have compulsory military service? I don’t see a lot of really fat young Oz men and women on the various news websites for Australia.

  196. Pointman says:

    Walt O’Brien July 6, 2010 at 10:26 am

    Re the smokes, I once gave up. It was a nasty experience. I’ve never done it again.

    A master class in ambiguity, I could teach it …


  197. Pointman says:

    izen July 6, 2010 at 9:54 am

    A climate alarmist with a sense of humour. Unusual. I’m thinking along whole new lines …


  198. crownarmourer says:

    POTUS executive order no media allowed within 65 miles of the gulf.

  199. Pointman says:


    The young Turkettes have latched onto your idea. They’re snapping at your heels. Whatever you’re going to do, do it quick.


  200. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    G’day Oz,
    Well, after I picked my jaw up from the floor, I now see why attendees of the Sydney synagogue demanded an automatic traffic light. The pushing of a finger is “work”.

    I have a live-and-let-live attitude to religion. Whatever-gets-you-through-the-day is fine by me, PROVIDING it doesn’t impact on me or mine.

    I paid a premium to live where I live, beyond the value of the house itself. If a bunch of religious nutters came along the riverbank planting six metre poles strung with wire, my rage would be murderous, no PC “submissions to council” would be entered into. The fact that such an enclave exists on Bondi Beach is a revelation. The world has indeed gone stark raving bloody mad.

    “AGW is not a Jewish idea. AGW ransacking of humanity is not a Jewish idea…….. Baron de Rothschild has nothing to do with it except to stare at someone yammering about it at a cocktail party holding his flute of mineral water, bobbing his head courteously and saying, “That’s nice.” Instead, Jews plant trees. They are nuts about it……….”

    Mayer Amschel Rothschild – “Give me control of a nation’s money and I care not who makes its laws”.
    And thus have Govts and their citizenry been rendered irrelevant, except as a source of revenue.

    As for trees, try this….

    And there was I thinking it was a Green initiative, about controlling erosion, stabilising topsoils, riverbanks and enhancing air quality.
    Shucks, silly old me, I had no idea I was participating in a religious observance.

    When I was young my boss was a Hungarian Jew, a refugee from the turmoil of the 1950s. Smartest bloke I ever worked for – taught me a lot about the world, not just my job. I was on my way to the deli for a lunchtime sandwich one day, and he asked me to pick him up a ham and cheese sandwich. He laughed at my embarrassed hesitation in saying
    “Are you sure you want HAM and cheese?”
    “Not eating pork is sensible advice for desert-dwelling people with no refrigeration, but I’m sure the deli has a fridge. LOL, just don’t tell my wife!”

    On another occasion, he overheard me grumbling about how much a pair of shoes just cost me.
    “The value of anything is what someone is willing to pay for it. If you paid so much for them, then THAT is the value of the shoes”.
    I’ve rarely paid retail for anything since..LOL.

    One day we were discussing a classical concert he had attended and, as an aside, he asked if I knew why Jews were the greatest violinists in the world. No idea.
    “Who can carry a piano when running from town to town?”

    I certainly admired and respected that man. He was full of fun and great insight.

    Walt, do you really want me to trawl the ‘net to find all the quotes and instances of the Banking Moguls involvement in this AGW Fraud? Right now, I’m a bit busy clipping my toenails to bother.

  201. crownarmourer says:

    Well I see everyone has gone to bed, as for a massive Jewish conspiracy I doubt it, as for the Rothschilds using power and money to advance their own power and interests quite likely nothing to do with Judaism just basic human greed.
    Also for the shaven headed women maybe that is something that came from Eygpt a common practice when they were there after all we say amen after a prayer very close to Amon the sun God.
    If you are religious no doubt you will take offense but if you are are student of history maybe you will go Hmmm.

  202. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Hi Crown,

    Interesting topic isn’t it? Maybe the shave thing had something to do with lice. It appears Julius Caesar had a slave pluck every hair from his body as he had a dread of being infested with the lice and fleas that plagued the men in his encampments.

    Must have been a bugger having nasties biting you under your cuirass armour plate. Maybe that’s why they preferred a short gladius to a long sword. Most inconvenient to be having a bit of a scratch and find yourself tripping over your entrails.. lol

  203. crownarmourer says:

    Hi Blackswan not long for bed for me got work in the morning, as for lice that is why the Egyptians did it. If you take a good look at Judaic law as to hygiene and health it generally makes sense considering the climate they lived in.
    Walt’s worries are more in the stupidity that led to the death camps I don’t blame him, like I said suspect the rich buggers not the general hoi peloi, most muslims are not out to kill us all just a small minority of loonies, most jews likewise except for a small minority of loonies. Well off to bed off for me.

  204. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    G’night Crown

  205. Pointman says:

    I suppose it’s the downside of democracy that allows someone to compile and publish a blacklist of climate skeptics.



    And my place isn’t on it??? Damn!

    Oz 👿

  206. Walt O'Brien says:

    I know a bit about blacklists and exclusion along those lines, which is sort of why I tend to bounce back to the Jewish issue as it is a paradigm for any ethnic minorities’ dilemma, and this time it is the AGW skeptic crowd getting the honorary Jew treatment. It doesn’t take much for the lists to be abused.

    We’re effing with a lot of people’s pensions, dudes and dudesses. I don’t mind the heat, I’ve been there before, really always been there even on a good day LOL! Just so you know. People with no more credit and no more money get somewhat slightly berserko of a sudden in direct proportion to how cushy and sublime their moneyed life was. It could be this all over again in the twinkling of an eye….

    BTW, I did for Jesus personally. I have his head in my fridge and use it for American style football practice.

  207. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Hi Pointman,

    When does a “list” become a “blacklist”? I couldn’t make it out. Must have been compiled by some civil servant on the “attached list” (where they haven’t got a real job, but you can’t sack the buggers). Hence,

    “Make yourself useful Fotheringay, make me a list of these recalcitrant nuisances”.

    As Oz says, if it doesn’t include Libertygibbert, it’s not relevant…LOL

  208. rastech says:

    “Computer modeling of engineering is commonplace, and people expect that before a complex engineering project is built, (plane, bridge etc) it has been comprehensively modeled to ensure that it will work in a predictable manner.”

    Oh like the Boeing Dreamliner then? And the Airbus A380 then? So that’s alright then.

    As for lists Pointman, don’t worry, the corrupted criminal little fascists are on many lists themselves. 😀

    Life is full of suck today, taking a few days off I think.

  209. rastech says:

    Walt:”People with no more credit and no more money get somewhat slightly berserko of a sudden in direct proportion to how cushy and sublime their moneyed life was. It could be this all over again in the twinkling of an eye….”

    This is very true Walt, and there’s people that seek to exploit the mob that is created in those circumstances.

    That’s how France got lumbered with their insane Constitutional principles after the French Revolution, for example.

    Something does seem to have changed in the last week or two. A common comment during the Great Depression, was “Money just seemed to suddenly disappear”.

    I think it’s happening right now, have spotted a couple of examples in places I wouldn’t have expected yet (related to astronomy gear and the sort of stuff people with large disposable income used to snap up at every opportunity – it isn’t moving any more, and many are starting to sell off their stuff), and I’m going to relax a bit and see what else I can dig up.

    A change is as good as a rest, and all that.

  210. Walt O'Brien says:

    Here’s the bugger who is doing up the lists:


    What’s an electrical engineering and computer science department doing making lists on a mechanical engineering and climatological issue, I wonder?

    I’m closest physically to the fellow. Ya want I should pay him a visit ta make sure he does something about the cold he is going to catch, Big Ozboy? He don’t look too healthy. A squirt of Vitamin Sten might do him a world of good.

  211. rastech says:

    I think you can see the panic starting to enter certain people’s lives, such as the change in fabian_solutions tone and her strange ‘victimhood’ reaction to the budget and conviction it is targetting women with job losses?

    I think that individual is a Local Government employee, thta is used to a large wage for trolling the internet all day, instead of doing any actual real work.

    Most of the fascist trolls are in the same boat, and similarly threatened via quango employment or whatever.

    Chickens are airborne, and I think its sinking in with them.

  212. Walt O'Brien says:


    Enjoy, but as I said, kinda keep an eye on the weather. It can be “Resident Evil” in an instant but with real, live people who are as wacky as were the zombies. Seen mobs in Panama and um, elsewhere. Not pretty.

    I’ve also seen amazing acts which re-confirm one’s faith in human nature’s better side, too. It’s fairly certain things will get interesting in a wee bit now, though. Please let us all live long enough to prove me wrong totally.

  213. Walt O'Brien says:

    Yeah, it’s a done deal, rastech, that the dole monkeys are for the long drop. I like the Coalition already. You’ve some idea of the taunts people toss at the working, if you have ever done volunteer work with the “downtrodden” who often have a higher standard of living than many of the working fools. The skeezer dweezers have no choice now but to seek out their own bananas like the rest of us.

    Out of my entire clan of maybe 30-35 families on my Dad’s side, there was exactly one female serial divorce artist and system sponger. She had four husbands, and in between made the most of every offering the social services had to offer. She lives like a queen now. Only day she worked was when Michigan put its foot down for exactly one Republican term and set up a trial workfare programme. She worked for Ford’s production line for about three months before finding another husband LOL! They’ll bury her with a TV remote, a package of condoms and a six pack of beer.

  214. Pointman says:

    rastech says:
    July 6, 2010 at 7:21 pm

    I think this recession is going to be a double dipper unfortunately.


  215. Walt O'Brien says:

    It’ll be by sectors, like all the other crashes. This is a good time to be busting into rackets that do well during downturns, like anything to do with media, but especially literary and proper cinematic work.

    In Detroit, when it was booming, 3/4 of the firms I worked for were purchased and re-launched in 1932-38. I must have worked at 25 or so such firms over the course of ten years while the work was still there.

    Oddly, a lot of those firms still exist and thrive LOL! Practice makes perfect, I guess. Giffels Engineering is one, Smith, Hynchman and Grylls another, JD Wharton export brokers, Nicholson Terminal and Dock (which also has an illustrious secret rumrunning history–American firm, Canadian owned LOL! A kid named Edgar Bronfman stopped by to visit Nick’s when I was weighmaster for the summer to look around his granddad Samuel’s landing point and talk with one oldtimer who was still there. Looking for his ancestor’s ghost like a lot of kids do, and adults.

    Still a great piece of writing there, Pointman. Have you a word and chapter count handy for your novel?

  216. Pointman says:

    Walt O’Brien says:
    July 6, 2010 at 7:24 pm

    Probably not worth the trip, Walt. Send up a couple of your New Jersey Bada Bing boys.


  217. Pointman says:

    @Walt. 80k words 27 chapters – enough Perils of Pauline material until Christmas.


  218. Walt O'Brien says:

    If you’re ever in Detroit, stop by the three rumrunners’ restaurants I used to frequent as a youngster selling machine tools: Sibley Gardens in Riverview, Pier 500 in Wyandotte, and there was also a bar that Arnold Rothstein of the Purple Gang used to frequent when in town, Sonny Gandy’s, now called Montim’s, or was when I was there, off Oak Street in Wyandotte.

    Uptown Detroit there was a “Gardens” something or other out of my price league on Gratiot not too far from the Ambassador Bridge. It’s still there, too.

    May as well get into the mood. Wish I had a 1939 Lincoln Zephyr, black, with the flathead straight twelve. I already have the black pinstripe, no white fedora, though. No Thompson with the Blish action, either LOL!

  219. Pointman says:

    Walt O’Brien says:
    July 6, 2010 at 7:52 pm

    “selling machine tools”? Would that be wiseguy speak for something else …


  220. Walt O'Brien says:

    Pointman, there is a very quick and easy way to protect your work for submitting to an agent, takes three minutes of your time. File a digital copy with the Writers Guild of America East. They have no problem with foreign submissions, and the only people jackass enough to try to rip you off are Yanks anyway, so you are covered with these guys. They are the original Bada Bing Boys.

    Call the thing a “treatment” which is industry jargon for a novel of a film script. Register the thing for 22 bucks, they will give you your registration number via e-mail, and Bob’s your uncle. Please let me look at it AFTER you have done that, I will format it for professional submission (agents are bitches about formats, they read 10-20 scripts and novels a week, and more), and we can take a poke at the American market with it through first getting you an agent who is licenced and bonded, and with a track record and references, etc. You’ll note also there are WGA affiliated agents, too, but I was thinking a cross-pond bunch like the Peters Fraser and Dunlop Group who handle both film properties and novels. I know I recommended against them as they are the DT’s personal pets (Sir Max Hastings is agented by them) but I don’t think you will be listing your property as “Pointman’s” LOL.

    If you like. No pressure. Just a hell of a thing to waste, IMHO. 20-40 G’s is the market advance, especially if you have the thing “in the can,” so to speak. An equal amount applies as the WGA standard minimum if they place the film rights as an option, but it is conditional on you joining the WGA East AFTER you get paid the advance.

  221. Walt O'Brien says:

    Here’s Peters Fraser and Dunlop


    and WGA East:


    You knows where I be, dude. Don’t kick me points, man, your agent gets those. Seriously, it is not ethical to “multi-tier,” in any event. The rude term is making a “conga line.” My end of it is about a half hour of keyboard action and a phone call, if that. You can spot me a marker, though. don’t know if I will ever call it.

    We need to do a trial run, anyway, with something that can be placed, so when we get the AGW property done, you know the rest.

  222. NoIdea says:

    Hello, Izen.

    Thank you for that link. I am only a tiny way in and I can see why you like this fellow.
    I am now going to paraphrase him a tadge.

    What shall we say of him? Surely this, that he was verily guilty of the death of those men. It is admitted that he did sincerely believe in the soundness of his AGW theory; but the sincerity of his conviction can in no wise help him, because he had no right to believe on such evidence as was before him. He had acquired his belief not by honestly earning it in patient investigation, but by stifling his doubts. And although in the end he may have felt so sure about it that he could not think otherwise, yet inasmuch as he had knowingly and willingly worked himself into that frame of mind, he must be held responsible for it.

    I could not have put it better myself. –grin-

    Why is it that those who declare loudest that the science is settled always seem to have the biggest problems with the part that they declare rock solid?
    And I quote from a self professed expert on the DT
    “The greenhouse effect (GE) is rock-solid science”
    They also say this
    “I seem to recall t, the temperature being part of an exponential term Now then, if you point a frequency probe at Earth to monitor its outgoing radiation, which is mainly in the infrared, ie heat waves, you can calculate what the temperature of Earth should be. But you find it’s 33°C higher”
    (Surely with a probe you should measure not calculate?)

    Also this which reveals their sources

    “In other respects, my answer to your question would be in the affirmative, not forgetting that point that we’d be 33°C cooler EITHER without an atmosphere, OR with an atmosphere that consisted entirely of nitrogen and oxygen – neither of which are greenhouse gases.”

    They then revel in their ignorance with their lame guess that demonstrates they have NO understanding of the basic established scientific facts with this statement.

    “conduction, convection and radiation. I would guess that the chief mechanism with a moving gas would be conduction – but stand to be corrected on that.”

    Much as I would enjoy debating and correcting this true “believer” I found their comments buried in the depths of the bowels of the diqust mess, and it would appear they have quit the GE domain now, the last thing I could find from this poster was…
    “Reported. There are few terms of abuse more insulting on a blog than “troll”. .”
    The rest of these messages where they said they are leaving have been moderated out of existence.
    Which I guess demonstrates exactly why a forum with no freedom cannot be used for anything except chatter.

    Perhaps you could peruse my replies to David (June 24, 2010 at 1:04 am on https://libertygibbert.wordpress.com/2010/06/18/stop-the-presses-you-heard-it-here-first/ )where I attempt to discuss some of the basic science issues involved and point out where I may be going wrong?

  223. Walt O'Brien says:

    Pointman says:
    July 6, 2010 at 7:59 pm

    No. Seriously. I sold DIN standard Swiss Alina B-6 and B-32 automatic micro-burr helical flute grinders that made tungsten carbide rotary burrs for dental applicaitons from blanks, and also Estarta centreless grinders which were based on the old Cincinnati Milacron centreless units for throughfeed manufacture of things like steering gear and suspension kingpins, axles, etc. Also I repped Stavely-Asquith, of which I was quite proud as Mum ran one during WW II making Norden bombsight parts for Mueller Brass as a union line worker with the old CIO. SHE was the gangster LOL! She used to go to the plant with a .32 belly gun in her lunch box as men were not as gracious as they are today, and as she left on foot for work at 6 am and got back to the rooming house at anywhere from 8 to 12 pm (hey, there was a war on).

  224. Pointman says:


    Thanks for the info. I’ll email.


  225. manonthemoor says:

    Quiet here — anyone around ?

  226. Edward. says:

    Good day/night/whatever to all,

    Just seen this little gem,

    Crutzen says more research is needed to reduce uncertainty in climate modelling.

    “The climate system is very complex because of human interactions, and also a lack of scientific information, and maybe a lack of validity of some of the assumptions made in the models,” he says.

    Yeah right!
    Climate models = tea leaf reading.

    Climate message is ‘getting through’ it is just that these twits will not listen to the message, that is what happens when the world of academia (or parts of it) become cut off from the real world.
    Crutzen mentions a dodgy figure, 0.7 degree warming, well that is open to conjecture for a start, do you, or do I believe the temperature record?

    Anyway, is this so called warming anything to do with us?……….Er can’t answer that one either, they ‘just think it is’, so more hot air and I wonder how much the ‘carbon footprint’ of these twits has personally gone up……..lots I suspect, still as they think it is not them who should be worried, it is us……..you see it is all our fault for wanting to live, eat, breathe and keep the wolves from the door.

    The battle for hearts and minds goes on, as the world’s climate slides into a cooling period (can’t say I’m too ‘over the moon’ about that in some respects, it is a double edged sword), then mother nature will do the talking for us, however BS like the above must still be highlighted.


  227. Pointman says:

    Hi Ed.

    There seems to be an air of rapproachment coming from warmist circles. “Gee, its not wrong – it just needs adjusting. And right after that, we’ll be back on plan”


  228. Edward. says:

    Meanwhile in Britain the madness is alive and kicking, kicking is what it needs, there is a collective lemming-esque quality to all of this bonkers ‘thinking’.

    Dr. North sums it up quite nicely, “We are in sorry hands – the hands of morons.”:


    Desperate stuff, to achieve what exactly?
    Answers? There came none.


  229. Edward. says:

    Hello pointy,

    This ‘air’ has the stench of stale sweat, the type you feel when you have been economical with the truth and realise that, you are not going to get away with it for much longer.
    The carrion fowl are circling, corvid like we will consume them!


  230. Edward. says:


    Are you aware of this?

    Wow, it will be a room to be in, can we ask scud1 to attend?


  231. Pointman says:

    Edward. July 7, 2010 at 1:47 am

    Yes, I knew about it Ed but I’m going away for a long weekend this Friday. I tried a bit of ‘weaseling’ to get out of it but no joy. I’d have liked to have seen Steve up close, if only to shake his hand.


  232. Edward. says:


    “I’d have liked to have seen Steve up close, if only to shake his hand.”

    Indeed sir!


  233. Edward. says:


    Richard Black (the deluded) has been at it again as well, what a bonehead!
    Good article here:

    I have commented on his site at the beeb.


  234. Pointman says:

    Ed, I posted a video link about an anti-agw conference some time ago. It’s hilarious. Did you catch it?


  235. Pointman says:

    Ed, found it. Sammy Wilson. It’s a blinder.



  236. Dave,Edinburgh says:


    Sammy Wilson, as you correctly say “a blinder”, thanks for the link.

    Did you see his views on BBQ Summer.?


  237. Pointman says:

    Ed, nope. Just added it to my growing Sammy Wilson favourites folder.


  238. Pointman says:

    Sorry Dave. misrerad the name. He’s brilliant.


  239. Pointman says:

    Dave,Edinburgh July 7, 2010 at 3:47 am

    Sammy in fine form on BBC NI’s Hearts and Minds.

    If only we had him as our political ‘face’ man.


  240. crownarmourer says:

    Here is an oddity for everyone it’s called let everyone know where we are located…
    Anyone taking bets on how long they survive.

  241. Walt O'Brien says:


    Watch them turn it into a mosque. Then it is “theirs” forever. That is their usual strategy.

    In downtown Montreal, they set up a mosque adjoining to the “Zone de Yank” district where Dave Letterman and lots of other celebs go to dine, drink and buy their bespoke clothing on weekends.

    There’s still hope if the youth of the world do this sort of thing to smart cars.


  242. Pointman says:

    Walt, Crown. The Dutch have just beaten Uruguay for a place in this weekend’s World Cup final. The mozzie item won’t be on the front pages tomorrow …


  243. scud1 says:

    Behind the scenes of the Sir Muir Russell inquiry.

    Dr. Phil Jones and Sir Muir Russell are standing at the opposite ends of a large room shaped like a slice of cheese somewhere in East Anglia.

    Probe, probe…Russell, Russell Russell…

    ‘Oi, Phil, what’s this?’


    ‘Bin it?’


    Snicker, smirk…

  244. Pointman says:

    Scud, you bugger. Wait one while I find a good explosion for you.


  245. Pointman says:

    @Scud. It’s amazing what a good set of reflexes can save you from.


  246. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Morning All,

    It seems China is shutting down or hamstringing a lot of production because……

    “We’d rather sacrifice GDP to ensure we achieve the energy saving and emissions reduction target,”

    But hey, it’s OK because they can all start up again in 2011.

    Is that how Carbon Trading works? Cut emissions this year and we’ll make a killing on Credits, crank ’em up again next year to play the cycle all over again.

    Wonder if they’ll keep stockpiling iron ore and bauxite during their downturn and is there such a thing as a “surplus to needs” clause in their Australian mining contracts. Will this on-again/off-again policy affect Oz mining?

    Described as a “nationwide destocking frenzy”, we can only wonder.

  247. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    If anyone can work this out, maybe you can explain it to me……..


    PS. (I was looking or the little sticks attached to his wrists, you know, like the Muppets).

    He was STILL not refuting CC or wind(non)power.

  248. scud1 says:

    Bloody hell Pointman…get the ‘pause’ just right and there’s this mound of asphalt and dirt that just starts to appear…great driving though.

    I’m wondering why NATO forces still swear by the BMG .50 of around 1915 origin when there are variants such as the GAU21 FN (go the Dutch)…

  249. Pointman says:

    scud1 July 7, 2010 at 8:19 am

    Didja see him looking around to the camera and there’s another chopper to the right of his line of fire? Someone was letting him “have a go” because that other chopper crew surely “had a go” when they’d all landed wherever.


  250. Pointman says:

    ie High velocity bullets literally “bounce” of water.


  251. scud1 says:

    Ah, Pointman.
    600 rounds of .50 BMG in 30 secs’ from a single tube weapon…that’s impressive!!!

    I’m not so slightly ashamed to say that I called ‘Duckham’ a ‘twat’ and then a ‘tit’ last night on the DT…He he…still waiting for that warning letter…

  252. Pointman says:

    It’s not a warning letter, more a battle ribbon.


  253. Pointman says:

    Jeez, things have come to a pretty pass when you can’t even call Duckham a ‘twat’. You could try ye olde phrase “F**k a Duckham”. Tell the mods in California it’s just an English ethnic phrase – you’d be untouchable.


  254. Amanda says:

    Hi guys. Just got back to Houston. The drive is enough to make you bleery, never mind the beer afterwards.

    Thanks very much for your various comments. Crown: I knew someone was going to tell me I had something wrong: there’s always someone that does things differently. So in the manuscript there’s a lot of ‘most people’ and ‘generally’ and ‘often’ etc. to cover my backside and take care of those annoying exceptions to the rule. But if you listen to any song/read most publications etc. from England, the word you encounter is ‘sideboards’. I thought some bright light was going to tell me that they didn’t serve ‘bangers and mash’ from sideboards! Not posh enough!

    Anyway, as I think I said, that’s not one of the more interesting points of my book but it was one of the easiest to discuss without preparation, and I did this spontaneously at the suggestion of an American friend. Consequently, Walt, I was not terribly concerned about being succinct/weather-girl-like. I do appreciate your advice about publishing and trust me, I know a regrettable amount about agents. It has done me no good.

    Ozboy: Thank you!

    Pointman: Thank you!

    Blackswan: Thank you also!

    I applaud you all for not throwing eggs.

  255. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Hi Amanda,

    Glad you & Mr A (and pup) got home safely.

    How could we throw eggs? They’re too expensive! LOL

    No, we wouldn’t do that. BTW was it you who is a singer? You’re always entertaining anyway.

  256. Walt O'Brien says:

    Dutch are a good bunch, it’s just they’ve been let down so many times by those they trusted. Hope they walk away with the World Cup.

    Hi, Amanda! Welcome back. Sorry if I seemed a tad “advisory.” You’re entirely correct in that if you wish to move something, anything, these days onto the market, the cheapest and fastest way is YouTube. Works a charm.

    scud1 says:
    July 7, 2010 at 8:53 am

    They stick with that calibre and load as it is reliable beyond all reason and expectations. I cannot believe they can maintain that rate of fire with no cooling except ambient yet not fry the barrel. Some metallurgist got mantelpieces full of awards for solving that particular problem. Titanium nitride is usually the default coating for high-abrasion high-heat rejection zero-expansion environments. You see the stuff on industrial drill bits, it’s the gold looking coating.

  257. Pointman says:

    @Walt. As far as the Jerries are concerned, the ‘needle’ match is always against Holland and the feeling is heartily reciprocated from that quarter too. If Germany beat Spain tomorrow, then it’s Holland v Germany in the final. That would be a helluva final for any soccer fan.

    @Amanda. Okay, you’ve had your beer, when’s the next monologue getting posted?


  258. crownarmourer says:

    Amanda you have to remember that there is a language line that runs through the UK I think it is generally runs through the danelaw boundary although I could be wrong. I know it was a long drive so rest up from resting up.

  259. crownarmourer says:

    If anyone is into 6 foot tall natural blondes with amazing figures fly KLM where you can watch a movie in Dutch and almost but not quite understand it especially if your from the North of England.

  260. Walt O'Brien says:

    Pointman says:
    July 7, 2010 at 10:40 am

    Yeah, it would be the Scheldt Estuary 1945 Part Two minus the Canadians LOL! Talk about an emotionally charged event.

    Pointman and Ozboy, as far as setting up a true Commonwealth Preference Exchange online, here is the paradigm, and as the Izzies were a Mandate at one time, I fink I can approach these machers and forge a deal with them as our first online trading board pals. You do one of these buy/sell sites (use the existing ones their governments put out like this example below) and consolidate them all onto one site, and Bingo! Instant CPE. Um, wonder how we bill for site access LOL? Sort of like an online trading floor. I also don’t think the DubaiDoobies and the UAE folks and the rest will mind playing next to the Izzies or the evil West either. In reality, apart form the press, they do it anyway. All the diabetics in the Arab world would be doomed without Teva Chemicals insulin, as an example.


    If you’re fishing with dynamite you have two choices, either throw the stick in the water or put out the fuse.

  261. Walt O'Brien says:

    BTW, the CPE would go a long way toward doing something REAL to bust up the logjam of debt globally through increased trade, and specifically for the UK. I would hazard a bet that the UK Ministry of Trade would front an IT person to set up a small biz just to marshal together that CPE thingie on a free-market-basis. You could do it either on an annual fees basis for CPE access to buyers and sellers, or on a percentage-of-each-deal basis, and let Customs do the collections for us.

  262. Walt O'Brien says:

    Here’s a similar exchange called Alibaba, but it is too nutsy and random. The site is not managed properly, and a lot of people get burned. I think to actually trade, bona fides should be presented and reviewed and vetted.

  263. crownarmourer says:

    Walt probably told this before my friend relayed the tale of two lead miners going dynamite fishing as told to him by his granddad, well two fishermen of an unusual nature decided to go fishing the quick way well his granddad found one of them running up the path he was walking down begging urgently for help for his fellow fisherman. They hurried to the scene, where it was found that sometimes biting the fulminated mercury detonation cap can sometimes blow someones head clean off. Grenades must be better methinks.

  264. crownarmourer says:

    Walt alibaba.com is a chinese site and those guys are all over the place.

  265. Walt O'Brien says:

    crownarmourer says:
    July 7, 2010 at 4:01 pm

    Just don’t use frags, use concussion grenades, especially if you are in an inflatable or a canoe LOL!

    Alibaba is fine if you are capable of meeting the seller and the buyer and have pistolas to everyone’s heads, IMHO. Otherwise, you can lose lots more than one’s shirt.

  266. crownarmourer says:

    Walt ah a picture of my Favourite Polar bear, we generally block these sites as they are full of gosh knows what nasty virus malware surprises. On another note my own company is investing further into the far East oh how that is going to bite them, things may get nasty yet again unless the big finance houses and the Fed can game the system to buy all those stocks that are tanking been following the trends they make no sense as I remember the early 80’s stock markets however they can only keep it so long to convince the suckers to buy into the market some more and keep things artificially high.
    Things should have been allowed to crash and only then we could have recovered quickly.
    Well lets see if they go to the old standby a big war which we can’t afford anymore.

  267. ScouseBilly says:

    Walt, re Alibaba, it was set-up to cut out agents. I used to buy bulk through HK and Singaporean agents on behalf of blue chip clients. Now those companies go direct to Chinese factories though you are right, often as not they get burned. They aren’t used to proofing assuming their technical specs will be fully understood by the Chinese – literally “Chinese” whispers lol.

  268. fenbeagle says:

    hi Ozboy
    Is it possible to get a message to ‘RealityReturns?’
    RR I think, mentions at one point, that he ‘knows’ East Midlands MEP Roger Helmer.
    And I know that RR has no great love of wind farms. Can I conclude from this, that RR is in opposition to wind farms in the East Midlands? Is it possible to discuss this with him privately in some way, if so?
    ….No problem if not.

    G’day fen – I spoke to RR over at DT; hopefully he’ll pop over shortly. If you still wish to correspond privately, I can exchange your e-mails or (much better) get you both on board at rastech’s place – Oz

  269. Old Toad says:

    Over here we’re waiting with ‘bated breath’ for the Muir Russell Report very soon (well I am ). Everyone expects another whitewash, but I’m not sure he CAN do another ‘Ron Oxburgh’.
    Whatever the outcome however, we must not ignore a key player, George Monbiot. He has taken a lot of knocks lately particularly from North over ‘Amazongate’, but never underestimate a wounded Moonbat. He desperately needs a scalp to rescue some semblance of credibility, and the one he really wants is not McIntyre or Delingpole, but Prof Jones of CRU East Anglia.
    Fred Pearce has prepared the groundwork. Just read his “5 Key LEAKED Emails from UEA’s CRU” on his Guardian blog. OK he’s got a book to sell but these ‘revelations’ will ensure that next Wednesday the now ‘impartial’ Moonbat will be able to let Steve McIntyre perform the coup-de-grace.

  270. manonthemoor says:

    Hi All
    Excellent blog by Gerald her as highlighted by RR on the JD blog.


    It seems even the computer models now have gone viral and refuse to obey their masters, how long before our thick biased politicians decide to recognise us the public before we go viral on them?

  271. Hi Guys

    Yes Gerald wrote a very good article and I thought it well worth visiting.

    If you need to get in touch privately, fen, then you, and others of course, can email me on realityreturns@gmail.com

    I know Roger Helmer MEP as he is a long standing sceptic of AGW also he is a Conservative and I have visited his website. It was quite active around the time of Dopenhagen. He pulls no punches on AGW and, like me, has his own views no matter the party line.

    Giles Chichester MEP is, can I say a ‘quiet and measured agnostic’ of AGW (perhaps a little like Norman Tebit). He does what he can but he is not as outspoken as Roger. Before Dopenhagen, Giles sent an email round all Conservative councillors and supporters in his constituency making it clear that he thought that eminent sceptical scientists MUST be invited to the Climate Conference at Copenhagen. He also does not accept low energy mercury vapour light bulbs as ‘all greeness and light.’

  272. Just another thank you for your support when I was under threat. You will be pleased to know that newsjunkie has been banned from the DT although he could get back in as another incognito troll I suppose.

    The best bit was when JD posted that newsjunkie was a troll. Newsjunkie was shortly and unceremoniously expunged with James posting a famous Queen song which you may recall…..”Another Troll Bites the Dust.” Dum dum dum and another torll bites the dust….lol

  273. Locusts says:

    I’d imagine getting stuff sourced in china is more trouble than it is worth. Not only do Chinese companies not understand the technical requirements, but they have no conception of quality if it gets in the way of a quick buck. If you need anything done in China, I’d guess it would be best to have someone who you completely trust overlooking operations. Even then, there may be problems, as those on the take will do their best to shut that guy out.

    Having said that, corruption is being tackled slightly better than before, if you can prove that the factory owners are on the take, there is a better chance of getting them executed than previously.

  274. Amerloque says:

    “Manmade global warming”, aka AGW, is a quasi-religious cult based on junk science, selective cognition and magical thinking. It is a scientific, intellectual, political, financial and moral scam. The climate has been changing for millions upon millions of years.

  275. Edward. says:


    Same old shit.

    Who is surprised? It is the old boys network, they all have a fucking finger in the pie.

    A dismayed Ed.

  276. STUART YOUNG says:

    seems the verdicts in…… and guess what Jones has been promoted!! Uneffingbelievable!!!!!! As Littlejohn is fond of saying “you couldn’t make it up” Just can’t get my head round it but as Amerlogue says “NOW IS NOT THE TIME TO LET UP”

  277. Amerloque says:

    Hi All !

    Back in the autumn of 2006, in an article about Chinese investment in Europe, the International Herald Tribune spoke about a venerable farmers’ cooperative named Le Cabanon in the south of France, an organization which has become Chinese:

    /// Yi Liu has spent five long years trying to persuade Europeans that Chinese tomatoes can match the quality of produce ripened in the Provencal sun – and at a lower price.


    The cost of tomato concentrate made in China and imported into Europe is about €550 a ton after processing, shipping and taxes, whereas the concentrate produced in France costs more than €650 a ton. The difference is mainly the cost of labor and regulations in France. Because of their access to less expensive raw materials, Chinese owners abroad can often operate at a lower cost than locals. ///

    One wonders how many other Chinese food raw materials are being imported into France – and Europe ! With the recent news about Piraeus
    (‘China’s new Silk Road into Europe’, DT, at http://tinyurl.com/239w2ft) one might indeed ask what is going on in the EUSSR …

    20100607 at 14h45 Paris time (CET)

  278. Edward. says:

    “Fabulous news! I’ve just danced a little jig around the office. Congratulations to Phil Jones and the CRU team. Now PLEASE can we get back to the science and to work out how to get out of the proverbial creek.”
    Just one comment at the grauniad, groan aaarrrgggggggggggggHHHHHHHHHHHH!!

    This is the puerile type of twat we are dealing with, childlike playgroud stuff…yah boo sucks stuff, god I feel sick to my stomach.


  279. Amerloque says:

    AGW, aka “manmade global warming”, is a scientific, intellectual, political, financial and moral scam. The climate has been changing for millions upon millions of years.

    The IPCC is the biggest perpetrator of scientific fraud that the world has ever seen.

    Individuals and organizations involved in this fraud should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

    Civil suits should be filed to recover grant money and subsidies given to individuals and organizations participating in the fraud.

    Now is not the time to let up !

  280. Edward. says:

    Uneffingbelievable is about right Stuart Young.


  281. Amerloque says:

    “Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world.”

    — Margaret Mead

    Now is not the time to let up !

  282. theendisnighnot says:

    Ed bet the “twat” who did a little jig round his office is in a taxpayer funded office probably a LGBT outreach worker these losers don’;t give up easy but why would they? they have so much invested in this shite just need to redouble our efforts although personally expected nothing more than another whitewash they’re all in on it but the truth will out!!!!

  283. Amerloque says:

    The greeniac catastrophists are pulling out all the stops to win.

    Last evening in France (Tuesday 06 July) a major primetime “documentary” program (2009) was aired: “Carbon: Public Enemy Number 1″ (Carbone: ennemi public n° 1”).

    Conclusion ? “Un changement radical des comportements s’impose.”

    It was the usual junk science predictive drivel pontificated by the usual gang of useless criminals and useful idiots.

    20100707 at 14h55 Paris time (CET)

  284. Pointman says:

    Edward. July 7, 2010 at 10:38 pm

    Ed, the posters on the DM are giving the story a helluva pasting. Er, em. Well, yeah that still works, I think …


  285. Edward. says:

    theendisnighnot says:
    July 7, 2010 at 11:00 pm

    Wotcha theendisnighnot,

    Yes I would put money on it!



    Hi, do you have a link to the programme?
    I’d like to watch it, my French is just good enough.


    Gotta go lads, catch you later, sorry!

  286. Edward. says:


    Will have a butchers later.


  287. Pointman says:

    Amerloque July 7, 2010 at 10:57 pm

    Never a truer word …


  288. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Re the Muir charade…………

    “When he announced the details of his investigation in February, Sir Muir said the review would examine allegations stemming from the hacked emails about whether the data which was used to draw conclusions about climate change was handled properly“.

    Then he says……..

    “It has examined the ‘scientific rigour, honesty and due processes’ at the world-renowned research unit but did not look at the scientific findings“.

    How can he examine “whether the data was handled properly” if he didn’t “look at the scientific findings”?

    Surely his first statement in February outlined the parameters under which his Inquiry would be conducted, and his second is an open acknowledgment that he FAILED to address his brief.

    Liars, Hucksters & Frauds with no Morality, Respect or Honour.

  289. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Amerloque 10.48pm says;

    “Because of their access to less expensive raw materials, Chinese owners abroad can often operate at a lower cost than locals”.

    Hi Amerloque,
    Wow, is this a bugbear of mine?!!!

    I have been buying canned diced tomatoes “Made in Italy” as Oz brands are almost twice the price, figuring that product and quality control were probably the best of foreign brands.

    It seems the Chinese, in countering resistance to “Made in China”, have been exporting tomatoes in bulk into Italy where it is canned and falsely labeled as Italian.

    It also appears “less expensive raw material” for the Chinese includes raw sewage as fertilizer. We have been warned against any vegetable product with high water content from China should be considered as “high risk”.

    Anyone who thinks we aren’t treated like little white lab rats whose health and safety are irrelevant to Govts anywhere is kidding themselves. The ONLY imperative is our MONEY.

  290. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Late night TV interview with our new PM, Jooolya Gizzard…..

    She said, “Australians are obviously worried about the need to reduce their Carbon Footprint. We will put a price on Carbon through the Carbon Pollution Reduction Scheme in 2012”.

    Still doesn’t geddit!!

  291. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Reports that the NZ Greenpeace “activist” charged in Tokyo over the whaling fracas in the Southern Ocean has been given a 2 year suspended sentence and sent home.

    Greenpeace pirates in all their guises operate everywhere with impunity.

  292. Amanda says:

    Mornin’, Blackswan.

    I’m sure that swan eggs are very expensive so I suggest Canada geese eggs when needed. They’re ten-a-penny and make a good splat. Plus you’d be helping to cool the environment because that’s just fewer geese to bung up the atmosphere!

    Pat Benetar (e.g.) is a singer. I have some vocal training but really I’m a songwriter who sings my own songs. I’m probably the best singer for them in so far as I’m their best interpreter, just as Lou Reed is the best interpreter of his own: however I’m more singerish, so I sound like Bryan Ferry singing Bob Dylan rather than Bob Dylan, if you get me.

  293. Amanda says:


    Thanks for your enthusiasm and the flattering comment about A. J. P. Taylor (I see your point from the links), though I suppose you could also have mentioned David Dimbleby if Dimbleby didn’t preside over Question Time. Anyway I’m prettier in pink than David is, for what that’s worth. (Not much.) (Pink is David’s signature TV-program colour now, in case you didn’t know.) Don’t know what I’ll do next in terms of exposing myself to Crown’s deflating realism, the next two weeks being a pig’s porridge of tasks and headaches associated with moving out of state. I won’t be able to resist checking in here, though.

  294. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Hi Amanda,

    I’d never throw a swan egg, gee, it might turn out to be a little relative.

    As a songwriter, what is your instrument, piano or maybe guitar? I envy anyone who plays an instrument at all, to sing must be icing on the cake. Bryan Ferry? Never!

    I reckon you should practice your webcam presentation with a song or two.

  295. Amanda says:

    ‘Greenpeace pirates’

    If the shoe fits….

  296. Amerloque says:

    Hi Edward !

    Hi, do you have a link to the programme?
    I’d like to watch it, my French is just good enough.

    The blurb is at:


    The TV version online is reserved to reporters …

    Visionner en ligne
    (Réservé aux journalistes)
    Chaque semaine, nous proposons aux journalistes les vidéos intégrales des programmes présentés dans LE MAG. Vous devez disposer du lecteur Windows Media Player.
    Pour visionner les vidéos en plein écran sur PC, faites un double-clic sur la séquence.

    Hope this helps !

    Amerloque 20100707 16h02 Paris time (CET)

  297. Pointman says:

    Swan, Ozboy – Do you have ‘wheelie’ bins in Oz?


  298. Walt O'Brien says:

    ScouseBilly says:
    July 7, 2010 at 7:00 pm

    The new takeover generation doesn’t care about stability, consistent returns, keeping stalwart and loyal employees, nor creating business institutions which serve as cornerstones for building liveable civilizations. They want the money NOW and then they are gone, like smelly “No Country For Old Men” Hispanic dope dealers working out of rusted pickup trucks. Like the Chinese, they don’t “get” standards traceability to ensure proper quality control is preserved, and thus also continued customer satisfaction and loyalty. IMHO, that portion of the population deserves to be splashed with the bucket of hogswill the new economy offers.

    Thus, Alibooboo is perfect for them. It is named properly, except there aren’t 40 thieves, there are 3-5 million of them, based on their traffic. A solid pre-procurement analysis by an export/import trade management house like DJ Whalen works first time, every time. They will still be there when the smash and grab “entrepreneurs” are doing serious time for smuggling or for having poisoned 200,000 people with Chinese tomatoes covered in human dung sold as bespoke French and Italian canned product.


    Glad you still like Jane Fonda’s and all of 1968’s favourite “little friend.” A Drowned zombie polar bear is a terrible thing to waste. I also think the main reason the authorities don’t throw the book at RedWar and the other Communist Porpoise agitprop grant dole monkeys is governments don’t want to make martyrs of worthless moochers out to blackmail the majors for “research grants” LOL! It would be fun to do an expose of who exactly are the donors to roadside IED-tactic RedWar blackmail artists. I’ll bet Warren Smorgasbord and Deepwater Horizon have donated to them LOL! (I still don’t hold BP liable for squat except for hiring on “life is a box of chocolates” types as subcontractors; this kerfuffle is so obviously a PR scam to divert public attention away from Incurious St. George’s inability to sort out the economy, for which I do not think he could do anything anyway, ought to have left the bar stewards to die with the banks).


  299. Walt O'Brien says:

    Sigh. Someone from France has done an “epic” Margaret Bourke-White style 150-dollar coffee table book on the ghostly ruins of the Pompeii of Detroit. It’s reviewed over at the Delirium Tremens, your and my favourite closet leftie palace of work-hating dole-scrounging despair.

    Those “magnificent” three-storey Victorian gingerbreads in ruins? 90% of them aren’t Victorian at all, they are faux-Vickies bought as kit houses from 1910 to 1935 or so from the Sears and Monkey Ward’s catalogues for from 700 to 1500 bucks each, shipped in by rail as a kit, and you hired a local carpenter at an equal rate to put the thing together, or you did it yourself from the included plans, which was always a mistake unless you were a carpenter (there are even classic Laurel and Hardy AND a Three Stooges shorts mocking the travails of assemblers of such monstrosities). They were meant to be taken down in 20-40 years maximum. Standard procedure to control spinal meningitis and TB in the days before any meaningful treatment (sanatoriums were just bespoke places to die in style) was a controlled burn of said houses to train the local fire department volunteers and as a social event. The only reason those buildings lasted as long as they did was the LAST Depression. They were not meant to, anymore than the San Fernando and Silicon Valley storey and a half bespoke ranch houses are meant to.

    There is a lot of BS making the leftist lie rounds about Detroit. First, most of the dogturds who bought a job at the auto plants through their relatives who were and are either deep South based whites or blacks still have their money-makin’ base there but out in the suburbs. While I worked shift, sometimes 12 hours six days a week at Michigan Casting Centre in Gibraltar, at the auto plants while at college—sounds terrible, but it was just like retail work with a little lifting, the only thing that hurt were my feet from standing on concrete, no one sleeps when they are 19 through 25 except during classes and lectures from parents, I couldn’t raise the bribe money to get a permanent slot, anymore than Dad could at Mueller Brass after he got blacklisted (the American Legion was taking his extra pennies as a “fine” just to enable him to keep working anywhere at all and to keep his name off the “Red Challenges” lists).

    Instead, Destroyed, Michigan, is simply part of the eternal “evict the long-term workforce so Biffy and Muffy can burn your house down and raise bespoke condo’s in their place” game the well-to-do church and other not-for-profit pension fund-financed grinning mobile corpses like to play to keep us smelly sweaty N-words in our place, just like affirmative action is. Capitalism didn’t kill Detroit: not-for-profits did, just like DC, where city centre is still home to thousands of NGO HQ’s none of which pays a penny’s tax and its rotting slums are home to the people who maintain the place, even though they have to take public transport to their janitors’ and hotel workers’ jobs because they can’t afford a car and there is no place to park it anyway.

    “Smash capitalism, but first let it top out our NGO tax-exempt pension funds.” Right.

  300. izen says:

    @ noidea –

    Glad to hear you are enjoying the Clifford.
    I was encouraged to read him by a poster trying to counter my claim that rational theology was an oxymoron.
    Of course I would claim that there is a greater match between the climate ‘skeptic’ and the merchant who favours opinions and doubts about the dangers to his ship to justify avoiding the cost of repairs…

    On the science front, I have been thinking a fair bit about lucid explanations of the processes involved, some of the difficulties you identify with the Skeptical-science descriptions on the other thread are down to assumption by the writer of a certain familiarity with scientific conventions and the basics of thermodynamics that are unwarrented…

    I know that the site ‘Realclimate’ is regarded with as much, if not more disdain by ‘skeptics’ as WUWT is regarded by ‘warmists’, but they have a new thread trying to give the simplest possible explanation of the Green house effect, and if nothing else it may be a good source of where you still see problems.
    I suspect it STILL makes to many implicit assumptions of familiarity with scientific concepts that are NOT universaly held.


  301. Walt O'Brien says:

    Then in Detroit is just like now: the only buildings built to last were production facilities, government buildings and the odd product of bespoke donations like churches, Carnegie libraries and enterprises like concert halls. The genuinely priceless old manses are still being used and are occupied LOL! Check out the Detroit waterfront sometime, especially toward Grosse Pointe, which, as far north as Mt. Clemens, has NEVER seen smash-and-grab “rob the rubes” real estate development.

  302. manonthemoor says:

    July 8, 2010 at 12:06 am

    Been searching for a new name for simulatosas per Gerald Warners current blog on the DT site

    Pigs Porridge sounds just right

  303. Walt O'Brien says:

    You’re wrong again, izen, because you do not know about what you speak because you have never had any experience in industrial repair. Industry is held back from upgrading and staying competitive by GLBT suburban communists with no hands-on experience in running a plant or building one chaining industrial projects to trees and whipping them for grant and community development (read, uneconomic free solar panels and natural gas powered uneconomic schoolbuses, etc. which power plant projects HAVE to pay for as part of their environmental compliance due diligence just to get their construction permits) shakedowns so they can get their building permits.

    Shit-breathed freeloading communist dole monkeys don’t build factories and power plants, the industrial sector does. Shit-breathed freeloading communist dole monkeys invent new regulatory frameworks so they can preserve their do-nothing income sitting behind a desk telling working people what to do then handing them the bill.

    Up your goddam arse, izen, you sweat free leech. You want to complain about plants not getting upgraded, you get your effing construction ticket and rebuild them yourself. I am sure you will be asset to every work crew which has the displeasure of having you on their team.

    Run along and troll the Delirium Tremens with the other rehab Prozac socialists whose arseholes Cameron and the other sellout “see I’m a Tory vote for me” commies is now reaming with his tongue.

  304. Amerloque says:

    —>> rastech says:
    July 5, 2010 at 10:49 am

    /// I’m a bit of an astro newb Amanda. Love it though. ///

    I’ve traveled to many countries over the years. I splurged some years ago for a Questar and have never regretted it. If you can, go for one, perhaps a used one. You’ll love it !

  305. manonthemoor says:

    Hi ALL

    Damian just posted on the JD blog how well things were going now???

    I made a civil reply, saying that the bloggers could deal with trolls and requested he consider going to a full page system and remove the reply option. Then watch the numbers return to the best blog on the internet.

    My comment was pulled almost immediately


    Just what are they playing at other posts have stuck

    NoIdea saw it happen as well

  306. manonthemoor says:

    Just posted this on DT see how long it lasts!!

    My polite request to tidy the system up and make this the best blog on the internet got bounced immediately by damian

    So much for free speech

  307. izen says:

    Walt O’Brien says:
    July 8, 2010 at 1:33 am
    “You’re wrong again, izen, …”

    Well it does happen occasionally, but WHAT am I wrong about this time?

    Quote-“Up your goddam arse, izen, you sweat free leech. You want to complain about plants not getting upgraded, you get your effing construction ticket and rebuild them yourself. I am sure you will be asset to every work crew which has the displeasure of having you on their team.”

    As always Walt I enjoy the imaginative fecundity and inventive invective which you deploy in your use of language. But I am unaware that I have posted anything that could be construed as a complaint about “plants not getting upgraded”.

    Perhaps you have mistaken the subject of the exchange I had with noidea on the G K Clifford essay on the ethics of belief which he creatively re-wrote to direct against AGW. It might have been wise to check out the link to understand the context –


    It could have avoided you post appearing to be a version of the video posted earlier of the rapid-fire gun on the helicopter.
    Full of sound and fury… but targeted at nothing.

  308. NoIdea says:

    At approximately 20 hundred hours I watched a polite request from MOTM for a return to linear blogs disappear from the DT.
    Within a minute or 2 it was gone. There is no removed by moderators or edited or any clue that this event happened.

    We where able to monitor and record this occurrence Utilizing our lightning fast ultra communication system as supplied by Rastech (thanks Ras)

    As I was able to confirm to MOTM that he was not going insane unless we shared a very particular insanity, he was able to address his concerns with a post at Ozboys wonderful site.

    Within 5 minutes of the post at Ozboys the original had been reinstated.

    We will all perhaps remember netjunky who has also been erased from history as far as the DT is concerned. Although I found his knowledge on the science to be sadly lacking he did provide us with plenty of gems. My personal favorite perhaps… “conduction, convection and radiation. I would guess that the chief mechanism with a moving gas would be conduction – but stand to be corrected on that.” (I suspect I could convince him otherwise with a simple experiment that he could try at his leisure with a candle and his eyeball) Especially combined with his assertion “The greenhouse effect (GE) is rock-solid science” How are we going to keep poking fun at supercilious fools if their existence is erased?

  309. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Pointman 12.27am

    Good morning Pointy,

    Do we have wheelie bins? Sure, we have weally big ones, weally small ones, with all different coloured lids for different “stuff”.

    I reckon whoever came up with that idea (apart from being a squillionaire) was a great believer in equality for women. No more “it’s too heavy” excuses….LOL

    In rural Oz, where a driveway to a house could be hundreds of yards long, a canny bloke invented a sort of towing hitch for the rear bumper of the car. A bar hooks into the wheelie bin handle and you can drive your bin to the roadway. Neat eh?

    Do you think the Chinese economy hinges on pumping out those bins for every household on the planet?

  310. Walt O'Brien says:

    izen says:
    July 8, 2010 at 6:12 am

    Balls, izen, you fabian-solutions clone. Don’t you dare incremental-horseshit me. This is but one of many little rat droppings you leave at these sites to spread the infection of doubt respecting anti-AGW’s “presumed” lack of moral authority on this issue, and specifically the industrial maintenance community, of all things.

    What it comes down to is backseat drivers who thrive on blackjacking workforces for their government paycheck and lacking such do-nothing tools like Prohibition, blacklists, and the ability to issue jaywalking tickets, now seize on AGW as a tool for robbing the workforce and the people who create those jobs while providing in exchange for that parasitism multi-media and real-world expressions of the fine art of doing nothing. The Syracuse power plant project was killed by demands in the SEQR permitting process for not only nearly a 10% budget commitment to rat-dropped eco-bio-enviro-flying saucer com-Huhne-ity projects that offer not one penny of return, but also by General Motors and an Indian firm which bought the neighboring property’s plant, a 140-year-old china dinnerware plant, just to shut it down, being able to leave or sell the site without having to complete bringing the sites up to “shovel-ready” cleanup status, thanks to infinitely corrupt environmental toadsqueezings passing for public assficials, which cleanup costs for the poor fools who buy the place to come to over 5 million dollars (I know, as I costed it). This, with the money ready to go, the vendor quotes in a row, all emissions compliances ready to be filed for, and three contractor bids on a budget basis, for a 100 MWe plant (ultimately). Both sites are so effing polluted we cannot get insurance for the sites, yet the Department for Environmental Conservation has not handed GM nor the India piggies a dime in fines nor charged them with cleaning it up. And all these officials are leafy-twiggy environuts.

    How do we get the variance on the permits? Simples. You know the rest. If we did that “due diligence,” they would have something to blackmail us with for the next forty-fifty years.

    Shit on enviropiggies. All of them. 130 mill for a town in desperate need of dispatchable power (most of which would go to “backing up” (code for : 24/7 operation) the 30-odd wind turbine projects near Lake Ontario which won’t pay out for 40 years even if they actually turned, gone. I don’t want to hear from envirosquats about ethics and industry, it’s like listening to a prostitute curse a virgin.

  311. Walt O'Brien says:

    NoIdea says:
    July 8, 2010 at 7:08 am

    Nice work, No idea. Delirium Tremens outsourced to California for the mod work to dodge litigation, no doubt.

  312. Walt O'Brien says:

    God, Ozboy, that IS a demented looking bear, even for a drowned one. I was cleaning my paintbrush and it went off. I didn’t know it was loaded LOL!

  313. Walt O'Brien says:

    I went to the Commonwealth site, and there is not one article or department devoted to the development of free trade with anyone, no traders’ meet-sweet site, no nothing.

    Would you like TransActions Magazine to be the Commonwealth Preference Trading Exchange, just as a marketing experiment? Each Commonwealth country has a variously huge or small B2B export/import trading site their respective governments run. It would be cool to have them all in one place. I think all I would have to do is ask for permission to link them to my site LOL!

  314. Blackswan Tasmania says:


    I really do like your earlier nautical analogy……….

    “there is a greater match between the climate ‘skeptic’ and the merchant who favours opinions and doubts about the dangers to his ship to justify avoiding the cost of repairs…”

    If you were Captain of the good ship SS “Man Made Global Warming”, we could have your vessel in dry-dock permanently, scraping imaginary barnacles and plugging non-existent leaks till we emptied your coffers in slip-fees and phony repair costs and destroyed your ability to earn your living.

    Who’s that sad old man begging alms at the end of the wharf? Why, it’s izen……..

    Meanwhile, we who have made our billions out of “repairing” the ship-of-fools will go buy a tropical island and retire in luxury, never ceasing to marvel at your stupidity.

  315. crownarmourer says:

    MOTM that wasn’t Damian T that was an imposter, Damian’s new avatar looks a demented ferret on lsd with a mop for his hair.

  316. Pointman says:

    Evening all.

    A bit quiet around here. Let’s wake up the neighbourhood http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5FyfQDO5g0&a=y_J5PLSv4m0&playnext_from=ML&playnext=6

    Anyone around?


  317. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Yes Pointy,

    Having my breakfast. Why did you ask about wheelie bins? Did you see my answer?

  318. Pointman says:

    Morning Swan. nip over to Ras’s and you’ll see what it was all about.


  319. Ozboy says:

    G’day all,

    I’m out all day today but I’ll check in approx 5pm my time (7 hrs). My new AGW thread will be out within 24 hours (bubs permitting)



  320. memoryvault says:

    Morning all,

    Okay, I’m game – where do I find Rastech’s blog?

    izen – have you ever heard the expression “flogging a dead horse”?

  321. scud1 says:

    Lovely…Excellent Black Swan!

    Indeed the .50 is a venerable round…now capable of ‘multitasking’…Ball, tracer, SLAP (standard light armour piercing)…HE (high explosive) and even APFSDS (armour piercing, fin stabilised, discarding sabot)
    Generally though, I was referring to the gun that fires it.
    That old Humvee mounted BMG / field weapon, link fed jamb a second relic of WW1…Don’t know why it’s still standard issue when there are far more capable designs out there such as the shown GAU21….aye, tis true. 600 rounds continuous @ 1200 rpm is no problem…like you say fella, ‘What the hell is that barrel made of?’

    Also…nice slap down of our friend Izen. I’m sure that we think almost exactly alike on this one.
    I don’t dislike Izen…he / she’s not the usual snide, smirky, lefty twit but someone who appears to genuinely believe that mankind is screwing up the planet…unfortunately, without a clue as to what that advocacy might actually mean…

  322. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Nary a mention of the Muir Charade in Aussie papers today……..

    PM Joolya is sticking with Internet “filter” policy………


    This rubbish from one of our AGW architects……..

    “NGOs, think tanks and universities also missed the mark, spending most of their effort arguing over nuances rather than explaining fundamentals”.


    Now we have “nuanced” science. Bastards should be locked up for Fraud.

  323. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    G’day memoryvault

    Rastech’s place…….


  324. scud1 says:

    Hey Pointman…

    Sorry buddy. Been out drinking with the blokes. Also I’m off as of tomorrow…be back Sunday.
    Thanks very much for doing the leg work on Rastech’s blog…all info stored and I’ll see you guys there.


  325. crownarmourer says:

    Hi everyone well I wonder how the AGW crowd are going to explain the unusually high temperatures in the Eastern half of the USA and the unusually cold temperatures in the Western half. Does anybody have any jet stream maps?

  326. memoryvault says:

    Morning Blackswan, Scud,

    Did you catch these little pearls of AGW wisdom on Auntie Blackswan?
    Seems GW’s going to kill off all the crocs now:


    Yesterday we were told GW was going to spell doom for little Nemo the Clownfish:


    As has been stated before, you just couldn’t make this stuff up. And yet these are paid researchers producing “peer reviewed”studies. Reported as “fact” by our “independent”, taxpayer-funded, Australian Broadcasting Commission. The world really has gone insane.

    Except, of course, for the likes of izen, who thrive on this kind of tripe. To him it probably all seems quite rational.

  327. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Hi Memoryvault,

    That croc story is such a crock LOL

    Those buggers are living dinosaurs, who is kidding who?

    As for clown fish having their “sense of smell” wrecked, that’ll turn up on a kiddy cartoon show and kids will be begged to bake cookies to raise funds to “save Nemo”.

    Just watch.

  328. Amanda says:


    Are you gettin’ a daily downpour like we’re gettin’, together with tremendous heat that sticks to your face in water droplets even when it’s not rainin’? In other words, it’s business as usual in Texas in Joo-lie (except for those years when we have drought, of course — that’s business as usual in another way).

    How does AGW explain bein’ more or less the same????

  329. Amanda says:


    I’m glad you like ‘pig’s porridge’, which is sloppier and messier than ‘dog’s breakfast’ — and I ought to know, since I dole the latter out every morning! Of course my dog prefers French fries, omelettes, and the jalapeno burger from Burger Basket with toasted bun and Tabasco sauce, but what sort of mother would I be if let her have that every day?

  330. izen says:

    Blackswan Tasmania says:
    July 8, 2010 at 8:11 am
    “If you were Captain of the good ship SS “Man Made Global Warming”, we could have your vessel in dry-dock permanently, scraping imaginary barnacles and plugging non-existent leaks till we emptied your coffers in slip-fees and phony repair costs and destroyed your ability to earn your living.”

    One of two things might happen. (to torture the analogy further…)

    All the other similar ships that were not subjected to this process would continue sailing without sinking. And I might just wonder if I was being scammed…

    Or all the other similar ships start sinking (just as theory suggests) and other owners decide it might be wise to apply similar precautions to those I am following, or find cheaper alternatives.

    This is often the missing aspect of this issue, the science gets attacked because it is seen to justify the advocacy of unpalatable policies.
    But alternative policies IF the science is legitimate to those rejected are very rarely mentioned.

    Ignore for a moment the issue of the accuracy/uncertainty of the AGW theory. Suppose that global warming IS happening for ‘natural’ reasons (or cooling if you prefer!)
    Apart from loudly proclaiming your ideological objections to the supposed Shit-breathed freeloading communist dole monkeys who are supposedly exploiting the event for their own ends, what POSITIVE options for responding to this natural variability would you propose?

    Or do you make the assumption that modern technological society is so robust that it can adapt without any overt planning to any such change – as long as the Shit-breathed freeloading communist dole monkeys are eradicated!

  331. izen says:

    memoryvault says:
    July 8, 2010 at 9:39 am
    “izen – have you ever heard the expression “flogging a dead horse”?”

    Lot of money in pet food….

  332. izen says:

    NoIdea says:
    July 8, 2010 at 7:08 am
    “At approximately 20 hundred hours I watched a polite request from MOTM for a return to linear blogs disappear from the DT.
    Within a minute or 2 it was gone. There is no removed by moderators or edited or any clue that this event happened….
    Within 5 minutes of the post at Ozboys the original had been reinstated.”

    Correlation does not establish causation.

    But you mention another issue of science and take issue with a poster…

    Quote-“…My personal favorite perhaps… “conduction, convection and radiation. I would guess that the chief mechanism with a moving gas would be conduction – but stand to be corrected on that.” (I suspect I could convince him otherwise with a simple experiment that he could try at his leisure with a candle and his eyeball)”

    I suspect that you have been taught that air is a good insulator and convection is the major factor in the movement of heat, so the danger from the candle is above the flame.
    It is certainly true that convection moves large quantities of thermal energy through the air much faster than conduction. But this is partly because the density of air is low so the thermal capacity is small. Therefore to move a significant quantity of energy requires a significant volume of air to move.

    That does not automatically imply that the CONDUCTION of energy in air is poor. The stream of rising hot gas HAS to have been warmed by conduction, although in the case of the candle there is a significant contribution from the combustion gasses of the candle wax.
    However air rising from a warmed surface, like thermals used by hang-gliders or above a heated towel rail must ALL have been warmed by conduction from air molecules contacting that warmer surface.

    Fan heaters and air-conditioning/cooling units would not work if conduction did not rapidly alter the temperature of air in contact with a surface at a different temperature. Convection may dominate the speed of movement, but that convection is driven by thermal energy transfered by conduction.

    Quote-“”How are we going to keep poking fun at supercilious fools if their existence is erased?””

    I have it on good authority (FZ) that stupidity is the most common element in the universe.

  333. crownarmourer says:

    Hi amanda it’s a little bit warmer than normal here by 5 degrees but still within range, I bet you can’t wait to move.

  334. izen says:

    scud1 says:
    July 8, 2010 at 9:47 am
    “I don’t dislike Izen…he / she’s not the usual snide, smirky, lefty twit but someone who appears to genuinely believe that mankind is screwing up the planet…unfortunately, without a clue as to what that advocacy might actually mean…”

    Why thank you that compliment, which is unfortunately wrong on a couple of points.
    I don’t “genuinely believe” I hold an opinion based on honestly earning it in patient investigation.
    I don’t hold that “mankind is screwing up the planet…” the planet has and will survive similar and larger climate changes than the one we are seeing now or from the potential effect of the doubling of atmospheric CO2.

    Mankind may be ‘screwing up’ a sustainable agricultural ecology and environment to which present society is optimised. We may be doing this at a rate that makes it difficult for societies to adjust – depending on the technological and cultural flexibility of those societies.

    I have some clue as to what that advocacy might actually mean…
    But it is always dependent and constrained by what nature actually does, the rest just degenerates in to a simplistic binary, left-right ideological argument that treats the political positions as contradictory polar opposites engaged in a zero-sum conflict. Not commensal parts of a emergent system.

  335. izen says:

    memoryvault says:
    July 8, 2010 at 10:02 am
    “Seems GW’s going to kill off all the crocs now:
    Yesterday we were told GW was going to spell doom for little Nemo the Clownfish:
    … The world really has gone insane.
    Except, of course, for the likes of izen, who thrive on this kind of tripe. To him it probably all seems quite rational.”

    If you are objecting to the explicit link to AGW in these stories by the media you have a point. They would not make the popular press without that hook.
    Usually such biological research is of interest to a minority, both papers raise some questions before it is legitimate to waive them around as having significant implications in the event global warming being significant and rapid.

    For the crocs; Is temperature a significant de6terminate of range? Despite these metabolic limits on dive times, does the range of croc species extend across a large range of temperatures, or would possible temperature changes move the crocs to new environments that matched their present prefered temperatures?

    For Nemo; is this a varied response with significant heritability?
    If so then the change will simply select a different population allele. They’ll adapt.

    However in a continent that has seen more mega-fauna extinctions than most from variations in the climate over the Pleistocene (or amphibians in the last few decades) complacency is a foolish option.

  336. Pointman says:

    izen July 8, 2010 at 11:04 am

    “As theory suggests”?

    Oh stop it, you fool. Theory tells us it’s impossible for a man to fly but everyone knows superman does.


  337. Blackswan Tasmania says:


    If you have addressed a response to me, please refrain from using expressions I don’t use and would prefer not be attributed to me…….

    ie – “Shit-breathed freeloading communist dole monkeys”.

    Nobody I know here is disputing any change in climate, either for cooling or warming.
    You ask…
    “what POSITIVE options for responding to this natural variability would you propose?”


    Bingo!! Give the man a Prize!

    What possible use is falsely labelling Co2 a “pollutant” and levying hefty Carbon Taxes going to do to “positively” respond to this “natural variability” in climate?

    What possible use is falsely promoting useless wind-energy while shutting down coal-fired/gas-fired plants and a cooling period in this “natural variability” freezes low income people in their homes?

    To quote our friend Memoryvault, if YOU are wrong “What is your plan B?”

  338. Hi Guys

    Oh dear, I see you have the toilet troll to annoy you. Trolls will be trolls wherever they are I suppose. As the Welsh say “tidy, Izen tit”

    I suggest you ask noidea to pose him a couple of questions, it’ll keep him entertained and off your backs for days….lol

  339. MOTM

    I am not quite sure why your comment disappeared. However, that was not Damian posting (DamiEn) using an e as if Damian cannot spell his own name is a troll.

    I have also had posts disappear for no apparent reason. They were not marked as removed, just disappeared. Strange, it is!

  340. crownarmourer says:

    izen the frogs may be dying off because biologists are traipsing the globe from one habitat to another across continents using the same gear without sterilizing it bringing one infection which may be benign in one place to other habitats where it thrives. They may be killing what they love by accident, just a thought.

  341. izen says:

    Pointman says:
    July 8, 2010 at 11:57 am
    “Oh stop it, you fool. Theory tells us it’s impossible for a man to fly but everyone knows superman does.”

    The contradictions between science theory and superman have been examined in detail in Larry Niven’s ‘Man of steel, woman of kleenex’.
    It pays particular attention to the problems Lois Lane might encounter in consumating any relationship with ‘Clark Kent’.

  342. manonthemoor says:

    July 8, 2010 at 2:13 pm
    and crown

    Yes I had come to the conclusion that Damian was a spoof.

    We seem to have some cuckoo’s on the nest

    I am very intrigued about their purpose and objective




  343. NoIdea says:

    Hiya Izen,
    I note that you mention one of my favorite phrases to throw at watermelons.
    “Correlation does not establish causation.”
    The point you mentioned from me with regards to that phrase does not appear to raise any correlations or causation, rather it is a statement of facts (from my perspective of course)
    At this time, I saw this happen. I then observed that happen, followed by this.

    I have included some of your points and my response in parenthesis.
    I suspect that you have been taught (nope, I really did not learn much at school, I did learn not to put my eye (I actually learnt using my hand!) over a candle pretty damn sharp through early home experiments though) that air is a good insulator and convection is the major factor in the movement of heat, so the danger from the candle is above the flame. (Not all, but most)
    It is certainly true that convection moves large quantities of thermal energy through the air much faster than conduction. But this is partly because the density of air is low so the thermal capacity is small.(YES!) Therefore to move a significant quantity of energy requires a significant volume of air to move. (Yes air, not CO2!)
    That does not automatically imply (automatic implicities are always nasty) that the CONDUCTION of energy in air is poor.(But it is, think about string vests as an excellent insulator and lousy conductor, they work by using pockets of air) The stream of rising hot gas HAS to have been warmed by conduction, although in the case of the candle there is a significant contribution from the combustion gasses of the candle wax.
    However air rising from a warmed surface, like thermals used by hang-gliders or above a heated towel rail must ALL (YES! ALL not just the CO2) have been warmed by conduction from air molecules contacting that warmer surface. (This is in direct contradiction of the Warmalist directive about Oxygen and Nitrogen “If the atmosphere was simply a dry mix of its major constituents, Oxygen and Nitrogen, the Earth would freeze over completely.”)
    Fan heaters and air-conditioning/cooling units would not work if conduction did not rapidly alter the temperature of air (YES AIR!! Not just CO2) in contact with a surface at a different temperature. Convection may dominate the speed of movement, but that convection is driven by thermal energy transfered by conduction.(Agreed)
    How do fan heaters work? Do they heat up the.04% of the air that is CO2 that then transfers it to the air? Or is it rather that Air is not as anti physics as Watermelons would have us believe? How much of the fan heater heat transfer is achieved by radiative transfer? I believe compared to conduction and convection, almost none. I believe that if you could turn on the heater without the fan (And without the COOLING effect that the moving air provides!) then we could observe the radiant heat transfer to the rest of the heater. The conduction of heat through any good conductors would possibly cause the unit to melt at a critical power input point before the radiant heat transfer became overly apparent. If I ever find one of those odd 3 pointed anti tamper screwdrivers I will perform this experiment as I have an old fan heater right here. I imagine I will have to bypass the thermal cutouts built in to prevent this from happening.
    I have been looking at the realclimate site and it has issues. I like the flux against wavelength graph. It demonstrates that solar input is the massive part of everything.
    The flux density of the wavelengths from the sun (yellow curved line) dealt with in regards to CO2 are several orders of magnitude higher than the same from terra (the light blue curve the earth) Ergo IF CO2 can behave how they say it can it would block or absorb more sunlight in that spectrum of IR than it would from the Earth. A cooling effect…
    (ii) The planetary energy balance
    The planetary energy balance says that our planet loses heat at the same rate as it receives energy from the sun (otherwise it would heat or cool over time). This is because energy cannot just be created or destroyed (unless it involves nuclear reactions or takes place on quantum physics scales).
    Reality states that there is no planetary balance it heats up and cools down every day and night, as it gets affected by the sun or lack of. It also changes on a yearly basis, I wonder what causes that? THE SUN!! There are also much longer periods of change as I am sure even we have agreed on. So for them to vomit out this putrid stinking pile of puke so that others may lap it up and regurgitate it fills me with horror. Whoever wrote this tripe also seems to have a problem with long established science facts. “This is because energy cannot just be created or destroyed (unless it involves nuclear reactions or takes place on quantum physics scales).” This was fine until they crucified reality with the big fat unless. Do I really need to go through the rest of this garbage with a fine tooth comb?
    PS thank you for repeating the link to Clifford. I will share another of his wonderful statements.
    And no one man’s belief is in any case a private matter which concerns himself alone. Our lives are guided by that general conception of the course of things which has been created by society for social purposes. Our words, our phrases, our forms and processes and modes of thought, are common property, fashioned and perfected from age to age; an heirloom which every succeeding generation inherits as a precious deposit and a sacred trust to be handed on to the next one, not unchanged but enlarged and purified, with some clear marks of its proper handiwork. Into this, for good or ill, is woven every belief of every man who has speech of his fellows. An awful privilege, and an awful responsibility, that we should help to create the world in which posterity will live.
    Lovely how he mentions creating the world of posterity, not obliterating free thought with mumbo jumbo half truths taught as reality.
    Let me finish with…
    No man holding a strong belief on one side of a question, or even wishing to hold a belief on one side, can investigate it with such fairness and completeness as if he were really in doubt and unbiased.
    Unfortunately this has to be true, I have only managed to try and maintain some kind of balance by examining primarily the opposing viewpoint. However when I do get steered to sites that are purported to be sharing a viewpoint I hold, I often find exactly the same bunch of half truths and badly conceived concepts then demonstrated by poor research as I find on the Watermelon sites. It would appear that not one of the many reports I have seen written on CO2 enrichment of plant growth (either Pro or anti AGW) have been done by any one with a basic understanding of Liebig’s Law of the Minimum. I find this somewhat terrifying as an oaf, that even with my limited education I can spot the obvious flaws in things being done by professionals, experts and scientists who are all being paid to eliminate exactly the errors they build in.
    I would ask that you try applying the same levels of critical thinking when looking at the Warmalist data and science that you so evidently apply when looking at the other side of the coin. I have and it scares me. Will it scare you to the same degree if you look with eyes that see?

  344. memoryvault says:


    You of all people have unmitigated gall coming on here asking for a “Plan B” if we are wrong (and AGW is occurring).

    For a start you never ever got around to telling us your “Plan B” if you happen to be wrong – apart from some waffle about “sustainable agriculture” (under ten feet of snow??). And has been pointed out to you many, many times – unlike the unlikely, improbable, never-happened-in-the past-even-though-it-was-warmer doomsday scenarios painted by your ilk, the tragic effects effects of global cooling are both real and have been experienced within recorded history.

    But since you ask, Plan B for global warming is exactly the same as the only solution to global cooling: energy, energy and more energy.

    Energy for the obvious things – cooling, air-conditioning, refrigeration and so on.
    Energy for the not-so-obvious things – desalination plants to provide potable water for drinking and agriculture, to power fertiliser manufacture etc.
    Energy for the more oblique things – for instance so that the “oceanic” continents – OZ and South America, and to a lesser extent South Africa, can generate excess product to feed, clothe and sustain those in the more afflicted areas in Europe and northern Asia.

    And energy, izen, REAL energy, for the foreseeable future and in the timeframe involved, means coal, oil, gas and nuclear, in that order.

    But you and your fellow traveller mass-murderers have ensured that, warming or cooling, we go into this without power (“renewable” energy non-alternatives like wind and solar), without food to tide us over until sanity prevails and we can build REAL power stations (biofuel consuming 35% plus of excess cropping capacity), and thanks to your partners in genocide – Goldman Sachs and Co – no capital – the western world is bankrupt – just in case you haven’t noticed.

    Izen, come what may, warming or cooling, history will record you and your fellow control-freak, do-gooder megalomaniac psychopaths as the greatest, most evil genocidal maniacs ever in the annuls of Mankind.

    Crawl off into your hole and contemplate that.

  345. manonthemoor says:

    Hi All

    Ref memoryvault
    July 8, 2010 at 7:58 pm

    Someone posted a piece about the liquefaction of coal and work experiments done in the Uk about 15 years ago.

    Apparently this was dropped due to technical problems, does anyone have links or expertise??

    COAL is a UK resource perhaps 50% of the Uk is on top of COAL.

    Normal mining only extracted possibly 40% of actual seams worked, of course open cast is different.

    Health and safety and common sense dictates that conventional mining is a no no.

    WE in the Uk are sitting on 300 years worth of coal, what a secure energy resource.

    As work in the North Sea is showing prospecting remains worthwhile.


  346. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    No Idea &

    Where’s a “Recommend” button when I need one……. Great work.

  347. Amerloque says:

    Mack –

    in res current troll attack on DT …

    perhaps you should break the messages into several parts, say, 25 names per list ?

    Amerloque 20100708 17h54 Paris time (CET)

  348. Pointman says:

    Amerloque July 9, 2010 at 1:58 am

    Amerloque, I’m having doubts that those postings are actuall being made by Mack or RR.


  349. crownarmourer says:

    I see the moderators have contrary to agreement begun to annihilate James D’s comments section even when harmless.

  350. fenbeagle says:

    hi Pointman
    All of Mack and RRs posts have been removed from the entire site.

  351. Pointman says:

    Crown, I know. Pop over to Ras’s.


  352. Pointman says:

    fenbeagle July 9, 2010 at 2:13 am

    Hi Fen.

    I think something very suspicious is happening over at the DT.


  353. Edward. says:

    Completely off topic and apropos of nothing once more, I came across this in the DT, it is the reaction of the fawning drooling appeasement monkeys which makes me a tad irate.

    Reading the DT today, the ******g bleedin’ hearts illiberal press both here and in the States is beyond the pale.
    Western critics have traditionally been wary of attacking Hirsi Ali (just possibly because she is black) but that reticence is wearing off as she has positioned herself on the classical liberal Right. A scathing review of Nomad in the New York Times accused her of “feeding religious bigotry” and suggested she enjoyed antagonising people. The Guardian described her as “almost narcissistically provocative”

    Appease these hyenas and so shall ye reap, reporters on the grauniad will be first to the cranes.

    Here the warmingista’s look after their own, good grief:


    And for a larf here, if the ‘cultural attache’ was the answer to diplomacy, then Huhne is the coalitions answer to a man with his ‘finger on the pulse’………. or is it somewhere else?
    Mr Huhne said: “What this event gets across is that electric and low carbon vehicles have really come of age. They are no longer just souped-up milk floats.


    Britain needs Huhne like a man needs a hole in the head!


  354. Edward. says:

    JD just posted on DT:
    Guys, guys. Please can you not all abandon this blog until we’ve established whether or not this moderation is cock up or conspiracy. As I understand it from one of the senior editors, the deletes were a) deletes of the fake Damien Thompson character. b) a delete of some comments calling someone else a “faggot” or c) the result of the spam filters kicking in either as a result of posting too quickly or including lots of weblinks in a column.
    Please, if you have proof that you are being unfairly and deliberately censored then contact me. Otherwise I urge you not to try reading the worst into a situation which may be entirely accidental.
    Telegraph blogs do not want to lose traffic through excessive moderation. Why would they? It would be suicidal. So please give them the benefit of the doubt and KEEP POSTING.
    I enjoy your rants and banter.


  355. Pointman says:

    Edward. July 9, 2010 at 2:51 am

    Do you have time for chat Ed?


  356. Locusts says:

    Can someone point out to Kate Day that the censorship is not working like she says it is. Posts are getting deleted before they even appear, and that the moderators are trigger happy with the delete button. I would, but I need to keep low, in case she remembers that she banned me.

  357. crownarmourer says:

    pointman can’t chat while at work.

  358. crownarmourer says:

    Well wait till they find the 75 reported comments in the review bin from Damians blog, they want to delete things that should keep them busy.

  359. Ozboy says:

    Just checked out DT… virtually everyone is talking, not about JD’s thread topic, but about censorship masquerading as “moderation”.

    Most unhealthy.

  360. Pointman says:

    Oz, pop into Ras’ for a chat. It’s been a bloody interesting day.


  361. Ozboy says:

    OK everyone – new post here

  362. Edward. says:


    Here’s something for you.
    Barack Obama is dumb. How dumb? Alfred E. Newman dumb, says columnist David Limbaugh, who labeled him “President Alfred E. Obama” because of his blithe disregard of the basics of fiscal responsibility. Alfred E. Newman is the Mad magazine mascot, whose answer to every problem is his signature statement: “What, me worry?”



  363. crownarmourer says:

    Pointman ever thought about inviting James D over to Ras’ place and drop by a chat once in a while

Comments are closed.