Beware Of Imploding Watermelons

Just a brief post today, as the last one’s getting a bit long. I should have a full post up mid-weekish.

I was looking at Watts Up With That this morning when I came across this hilarious story of a radical green group hacking the European Climate Exchange website and ridiculing the logic of cap-and-trade. A bit of light relief, if nothing else.

Very busy today, but I’ll look in on you all later.


For those of you interested in our native Australian wildlife, Memoryvault sent me the following image:


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394 Responses to Beware Of Imploding Watermelons

  1. Amanda says:

    Oh god, it’s that Frog again. The truth is that I have to exercise and I’ve been out of that habit for at least two weeks, and I’m avoiding my obligations with a glass of wine. Which is why I’m also here. However, unless I want to develop the ‘snowman’ figure of my elder lady relatives, jumping and pumping with those weights I must go. Being in a hotel room is no excuse (I even found my trainers — drat).

    Anyway, real point: I LOVE your blog, Ozboy. I love the people on it, and the threads like cosy chairs you put out for us.

    The pleasure’s all mine, my dear; grab a drink, pull up a chair by the fire and enjoy – Oz

  2. izen says:

    Ah, I wondered where everyone went…
    haven’t left in a huff…?
    or is a minute and a huff……!
    (Marxist, tendency Groucho…-grin-)

    “These are just a few examples of the mounting criticism directed at the very foundation of the AGW theory — a theory driven not by science, but rather by a cabal of powerful elitists who seek to dominate and control the planet’s economy through a system of confiscatory taxation and Orwellian people controls.

    Critisim countered and refuted decades ago when those ‘very foundations’ were being constructed.
    Are the ‘cabal of powerful elitits seven foot tall lizards….

    Quote-“The “science” underlying greenhouse warming alarmism increasingly is being exposed as pure fantasy — a house of cards built on manipulated climate models supporting pre-ordained conclusions based on cherry-picked land-based temperature data that has been homogenized, interpolated and adjusted to produce, without fail, a politically correct increase in planetary warming.”

    Along with a politically correct rise in sea level, migration of ecologies, earlier growing seasons, less frost days, negative glacial mass balance…
    Science is a jigsaw, not a house of cards. With so many interlinked elements knocking out the odd few does little to change the overall picture.

    Quote -“But as Gerlich and Tscheuschner observe, the science of climate change is fraught with uncertainties and unknowns that make a mockery of the predictive powers of laboratory computer models:
    “The real world is muddy and messy and full of things that we do not yet understand. It is much easier for a scientist to sit in an air-conditioned building and run computer models, than to put on winter clothes and measure what is really happening outside in the swamps and the clouds. That is why the climate model experts end up believing in their own models.” ”

    As you(?) corrected, it was Dyson that is the source of this quote.
    No doubt the irony is unintended. Dyson as a theoretical physicist will have much experience of sitting in climate controled buildings, and rather little of swamps and clouds.
    While there may be a small number of climate modelers that are similarly insulated, the majority of climate scientists HAVE engaged in field work. Who do you think goes and measures ice thickness on the Antarctic icecap, or drought impacts in the amazon?

    Quote-“Chew on that, Izal.”

    Mmmmh… raspberry!

  3. amanda what’s exercise I have heard of it but have no clear idea what it is.
    Also people who exercise get injuries all the time which can’t be good for a person.

  4. Edward. says:



    The ABC understands Ms Gillard will outline plans to set up a committee of scientists to advise the Government on climate change.

    The committee will be paired with a citizens’ assembly, consisting of 100-200 volunteers who will gauge feeling of the community on its attitude towards putting a price on carbon, and feed it back to the Government.


    How come Abbot didn’t nail her to the floor?

    Confused? Aussie politics yes I am! Seeesh?**!?!

    Glizard is madderer (than Mad Jock MacMad!) than KRudd and that’s saying summat.
    BTW wot happened to Kev? Is he “spending some time in rehab?”


  5. Edward. says:

    “Ah, I wondered where everyone went…”

    One of these days girlie, we won’t be here…………..figuratively speaking, you’ll have done all our heads in!


  6. Edward. says:

    To ScouseBilly,

    Had a lot of love for Alex, watched in pot black, used to love him cos you’d see fireworks.
    Great win in 82, watched it frame by frame, cheered when he won!
    He was mad as a hatter, endearingly so and more sinned against than sinner, bless you Alex for some great memories.


  7. ScouseBilly says:

    Izal, you bore the crap out of me. You seem to think people get off on the vicissitudes of debating this junk, oops, immature science. Actually, I don’t but for those stuck in the tedium of that futile passtime I posted a rather good piece by I_was_ferret. These reknowned scientists are worth hearing. You seem to have a childish obsession with telling us how they are wrong – yes, you the toilet troll – no PhD, no Noble prize. Most people I know are more concerned with the political agenda in play as you would be, if you had an ounce of insight. Sorry to disappoint but I’m not your next playmate in your irritating and distractive obsession with debating non problems.

  8. ScouseBilly says:

    Ed, as Steve Davis said, he was the one true genius snooker produced.
    It’s funny I watched Top Gear earlier tonight where they paid tribute to Ayrton Senna. He didn’t have the stats of a Schumacher but all the F1 drivers, Schimacher included, agreed he was the best. Why? Because he was on the limit all of the time.
    Alex was the same 🙂 (God I used to hate Steve Davis lol).

  9. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Edward. says:
    July 26, 2010 at 9:19 am

    G’day Ed,

    You must have missed my earlier posts on the dire state of Aus politics….


    A month ago Gillard challenged KRudd for his job on the grounds that he was “on the nose”. The Party agreed and ousted him to the backbench. He then took off overseas looking for a UN job which it looks likely he’ll get as Climate Change Ambassador or somesuch.

    Last week Gillard announced her Climate Policy with a Citizens Assembly. 150 “randomly” selected citizens who will be brow-beaten by a brace of AGW “scientists” into agreeing to a Carbon Tax, upon which Gillard will claim a popular mandate to impose an ETS. They are currently looking at establishing a Carbon Price of $70 a tonne.

    Anyone know of any CX anywhere that’s paying 70 bucks a tonne?

  10. Amanda says:

    Oz: you are a darling.

    Crown: I made an ass of myself for about 15 minutes and was thoroughly puffed (one loses it quickly), but fortunately the dinner gong sounded. As it is, I’ve tried to sneak indifferent supermarket bread, sweetened coconut (there are no other sweets in our room, unless I want to lick the jam sampler), and even cereal(!), but Chris has been on my case and confiscated everything. He won’t even get the hotel popcorn bag because he knows I’ll scoff some. Life isn’t fair, it really isn’t. (On the other hand, I don’t want to end up like a snowman.)

  11. Pointman says:

    Evening all, have some Lady Day


  12. Amanda says:

    Crown: I made an ass of myself for about 15 minutes and was thoroughly puffed (one loses it quickly), but fortunately the dinner gong sounded.

    Crown, have I just invented exercise pron? LOL

  13. Amanda says:

    Ed and Blackswan:

    Oh yeah, and 100-200 people (let’s say 150) is REALLY representative! Note that the pronouncement mentioned ‘the community’ — ‘the’ community? What community? No one could mention the nation because then, of course, 100 or so bought or bribed or bullied citizens would be risible for any sort of mandate.

  14. Pointman says:

    Hi Amanda, hope Florida is as interesting as the lone star state.


  15. Amanda says:

    Pointman: re your first link — haven’t got to the second yet — she has a lovely voice, doesn’t she? My mum always thought Sunday gloomy as a teenager, school being the next day (and it was a bad school).

    On a similar theme, I rather like this:

  16. Amanda says:

    Pointman: re second link: Didn’t know that one. Know ‘Judy Blue Eyes’, of course (who doesn’t?)

    Texas is a strange place. It’s more interesting, in my admittedly limited experience, it’s more interesting as an idea than as an actual place. And I mean no disrespect: in some important ways, America as a country is the same: more important for what it protects and represents than what it is in any particular manifestation. I wish I had seen more of it: I only saw San Antonio because I had fled Houston in advance (just in advance) of a hurricane, and it was too bloody hot to see the sights (over 100 degrees Fahrenheit). But I did get a sense of life outside Houston, if only briefly (a place called Cat Springs, 1 1/2 hours away in the country). And of course the long ride on the interstate east to Louisiana….

    Anyway, cut things short: I love Florida and prefer it. Especially coastal Florida. Nature, plants, birds, fish, sunsets, refreshing thunderstorms, the ease of living (everyone lives on the lanai and no pool is ever far away); the sea. The sense that the world is your oyster: shopping, fun, culture. It’s free, it’s happy, it’s one of the best places on earth. End of advert!

    This Neil Young song sort of makes me think of Florida, the romantic South, the water and dripping Spanish moss on the trees:


  17. Amanda says:

    Oh, and don’t forget the horses in the post-and-rail paddocks, especially in and around Ocala.

  18. Amanda says:

    In Cat Springs there’s a ranch with Paso Fino horses on it. I saw them prancing: very beautiful. Never heard of ’em? Not surprising: they’re not common, especially outside of Latin America.

  19. Amanda says:

    And now you’ve got me going… I love seeing the dolphins. And occasionally a manatee. What’s more exotic than a manatee? I was in my 20s before I even knew they existed.

  20. Blackswan Tasmania says:


    Perusing the paper I see this headline………

    “Voters reject climate citizens assembly”.

    You think “about bloody time” and you go on to read the article which is all about the assembly being just a “delaying tactic” and demanding an Emissions Trading Scheme.

    So far, I’ve found no journo decrying this move on any grounds other than it’s another Labor broken promise.

    The Comments section is full of Realists refuting this stuff, but the journos persist.

    I’ve pretty much given up on anything changing here any time soon.

  21. Pointman says:

    They think Manatees are the origin of the Mermaid tale. They’re interesting creatures. When you watch them and think they were here before us you tend to think they’ll still be here after us.

    I once watched Dolphins offshore in Puerto Villarta. To see them looping out of and into the sea in the moonlight was beautiful. It suggested a complete joy of life. They’re interesting creatures too.

    One of America’s lost treasures


  22. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    I had to Gargle to find out what a “manatee” is.

    We call them “dugongs”. I never thought of them as “romantic”. Eye of the beholder I guess.

  23. Pointman says:

    Hi Swan, I liked your pictures. I have a brother who wakes up to that sort of view every day. It’s never the same picture for him either.


  24. Blackswan Tasmania says:


    Dolphins and sea lions are different. They certainly do exhibit an innate exuberance and curiosity about the world.

    I’ve never seen a dugong in the wild, but as our aborigines are allowed to kill them in respect of their time-honoured traditions, I get the impression that they’re pretty slow sort of creatures.

  25. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Hi Pointman,

    Re the view. What amazes me about living here is that locals seem to be oblivious to it.
    We never take it for granted and always appreciate this place as “balm for the soul”, but many born and bred locals don’t think it’s such a “big deal”.

  26. Amanda yes exercise pron.
    Well the missus tried her hand at making Cornish pasties not bad for a first attempt. Hadn’t eaten one in 17 years, wherever Cornish miners went pasties would follow my mutha used to make em because some of my family came from Cornwall so it was a family tradition.
    Now I wonder if it is possible to make a soup pastie.

  27. Amanda says:

    Blackswan, you are correct: I think of them as ‘sea potatoes’. But they ARE unusual, and gentle. Dugongs are a different species from dugongs. Dugong is an unromantic name: sounds like a droopy elderly breast. Manatees are special in large part because not only are they large mammals, but they are very local and somewhat rare (getting rarer for various reasons, including boating fatalities).

    Pointman: Agree with you about the magic of dolphins. It’s the sea….

  28. Pointman says:

    Swan, your impression is correct. They’re slow or almost leisurly. The life aquatic.


  29. Amanda says:

    My mistake: I meant to type ‘manatees are a separate species from dugongs’

  30. Blackswan dugongs are cousins of the manatees over in the gulf or Atlantic you can recognize them by the propeller marks on their bodies. We had one swim up the Mississippi to Memfrica last year. I’m just glad the alligators don’t get such ideas.

  31. Pointman says:

    I have an Australian friend who told me a story about Dolphins. When he was a kid and mad about surfing, he and his pals found themselves offshore waiting for a big wave. A dolphin came and swam around them rapidly and then headed for shore like a bullet. They couldn’t work out if this meant something or not. The dolphin repeated the same thing. They were scratching their heads when one of them noticed a shark’s fin heading towards them. They headed for shore.


  32. Amanda says:

    Crown: I think it’s wonderful that your American-Vietnamese wife is willing to make Cornish pasties for you — obviously true love. As it happens my maiden name is
    Cornish but grandad has done the genealogy and we’re all Londoners except for some carpenters from Suffolk… so the Cornish connection remains unproved but there’s no denying the name….

  33. Amanda says:

    Crown at 11:37: Glad you think so. So I can keep eating then…. Mr A just this second, holding up the evidence: ‘You had this entire bag!’

  34. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Hey everybody,

    Check this out, and then tell me the MSM has a shred of credibility.

    A poll in the Sydney DT reveals………..

    “If the Federal Election was held today, which party would receive your first preference?

    * Labor 15.27% (1569 votes)
    * Liberal 70.67% (7261 votes)
    * National 2.91% (299 votes)
    * Green 5.03% (517 votes)
    * Independent/Other 2.43% (250 votes)
    * None of them 3.68% (378 votes) Total votes: 10274//

    Are you guys paying attention?

    Of over 10,000 votes, 70% Liberal, 15% Labor with Greens 5%.

    Every single Poll that’s being published, Morgan, Nielsen, Party polls, whatever, have got Labor way out in front with the Greens holding the balance of power in the Senate and winning their first Lower House seats and Abbot’s Liberals lagging behind.

    Every single newspaper poll I click into (and you can’t click twice, I’ve tried it) yields similar results as this. Even allowing for Party hacks to create a bias, 10,000 votes should be considered more representative of public opinion than a Morgan poll………

    or even a Climate Change Citizens Assembly of 150 hapless souls.

    Our shrieks of “How can they get away with this?” disappear into a void, without even a reassuring echo.

  35. Amanda says:

    I’m just glad the alligators don’t get such ideas.

    Yeah, Mr A said today ‘Don’t let [the darling of our lives] too near the water. Alligators have been known to eat dogs’.

  36. Amanda says:

    Blackswan: ‘Are you guys paying attention?’

    Maybe in the morning. At present I’m too full of a) curried chicken, b) wine both red and white, c) Nish Nosh sour cream & onion crispy baked snacks. However I’m sure it’s an eye-opener, and when I can open my eyes sufficiently, I’ll look. I never did claim to be a poster who was always on-topic! Or ever!

  37. Amanda says:

    Pointman re shark and dolphin: great story.

  38. amanda Yes they have been known to leap out of the water and grab the odd pooch.

  39. Blackswan a lot of polling is biased as they preselect areas that are in favour of one party or another. It’s getting harder for them to find such areas for the Dems and the POTUS here now.

  40. Pointman says:

    Swan, it’s infowar. The science is toast but since most people don’t understand it anyway, the alarmist just keep their foot on the gas pedal. Stoke up the hysteria and create a consensus. This is not about rational thought, it’s about propoganda. The people of reason try to use it to reverse things but all ‘reason has fled’. You can debate the ‘science’ with Izen but that’s not where the battle has to be faught.


  41. Amanda says:

    Crown, my friend: Your blog needs a new thread. The socks thing — someone put a sock in it.

  42. Pointman says:

    faught = fought. Doh!

  43. amanda a common Cornish name was Rogers or Atkins there are others.

  44. Amanda says:

    Crown: that’s wonderful, dear, though god knows when it’ll ever come in handy…

    Mr A is watching Abbot & Costello on TV. The level of humour (which he is thoroughly enjoying) can be summed up by this exchange:
    ‘Did you take a shower?’
    ‘Why, is there one missing?’

    I keep hearing laughter, punctuated by snorts and ‘this is so stupid’, punctuated by laughter. Draw your own conclusions.

  45. Amanda says:

    Unless, Crown, you’re trying to suggest that Roy Rogers and Dr Atkins of diet fame are related to me….

  46. amanda just for you…

    Really lame blog but I aim for true mediocrity and totally boring it’s a goal in life but an achievable one, aim low.

  47. Pointman says:

    In the big downwhen, the Irish used to go raiding for metals as there were scant few to be found near the surface in Ireland. Their ports of call on such acquisitive expeditions were what became to be Cornwall and northern France. Eventually the penny dropped and they stopped raiding them and just settled there, hence the Cornish and Breton languages.


  48. amanda lol no just two of my distant ancestors names pretty common in that part of the world.

  49. Amanda says:

    Crown, I found my way to your lameness even before you advertised it to me… I’m your first poster, as always.

    Hey everybody: Crown has another really lame blog post y’all should see. We’ve moved up the food chain from socks….

  50. Amanda says:

    Pointman: will check your link in the A.M. Fascinated by the dark, murky, mysterious history of the west, the time of tin mining and fogous and such when the Romans descended…

  51. Pointman the languages of Cornwall and Brittany are related to Welsh not Irish, however Irish pirates did raid and settle parts of the Western UK not sure about Brittany though. They love British people as long lost cousins, warmest welcome in France. The are descended from the Britons fleeing the Saxons.

  52. Amanda says:

    G’night all.

  53. By the way insults are free on my blog it’s lame real lame.

  54. Pointman says:

    Crown, tell it to my woman, an Irish speaker who gets on quite well in Breton. It’s like Chaucerian English as far as she’s concerned. I’ll have to let her loose on what’s left of the tin miners though.


  55. Pointman says:

    Night Amanda, don’t dream of Aggies and longnecks though …


  56. Pointman a lot of Irish were brought into to work the Tin mines in the 19th century in Cornwall as a lot of the old miners had gone abroad to look for gold or up north to work the lead mines. Can’t say as much for Brittany as I don’t know the full history as to settlement.

  57. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Amanda says:
    July 26, 2010 at 11:41 am

    “Yeah, Mr A said today ‘Don’t let [the darling of our lives] too near the water. Alligators have been known to eat dogs’.”

    “Alligators can grow to be 800 pounds (360 kg) and 13 feet (4.0 m) long but can grow to 14.5 feet (4.4 m) ”

    “Australian saltwater crocodiles are the largest reptile in the world in terms of mass (can be over 1000kg). The males can reach a length of up to 6 or 7 metres (2.5 to 3m for females), though such a size is rare.”

    The Ranger pulled up his truck beside a waterhole and as he sat in his truck making mapping notes, one of his dogs jumped off the back to grab a quick drink. A very big croc grabbed a quick snack and the dog was gone before the Ranger could react.

    Now these dogs were not your average domesticated “soft” sort who like to sleep in their “mother’s” bed.

    The Ranger had three pig-hunting dogs. Feral pigs are not your squishy, pink, bloated sort you find in a sty. They have reverted to the European wild kind, huge, lean, hairy, black with massive curving tusks….. and smart. To be successful, such dogs have to be clever, alert, with senses honed to work in the wild.

    But the croc still snatched the Ranger’s best “lead” dog.

    On my trip, we were out fishing one day and returned to the boat ramp to find a 10 ft croc chasing the Ranger’s remaining dog round and round an upturned dinghy on the beach beside the ramp. The dog was near exhaustion but smart enough to know the croc would get him if he took off for the trees. A few shots into the sand from the “elephant” gun persuaded the croc to take a swim, and the poor old dog collapsed (literally) and had to carried back to the house and revived.

    Don’t take chances with your “Buddy”.

  58. Blackswan we has some nasty looking minnows in our streams back home.

  59. Things to like about the UK very little dangerous wildlife lots of feral youf though.

  60. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Crown, didn’t I read about a bloke getting bitten by a sea-snake off the Cornish coast?

    BTW we don’t have rabies here, so something that’s supposed to be nice and friendly doesn’t suddenly turn berserk on you.

    Maybe that’s the thing with all things Aussie. You generally know where you stand with us. If we’re friendly, we are. If we’re dangerous, you won’t see us coming.

  61. Blackswan well in the UK they do have panthers now and apparently lions in the Scottish highlands thanks to people divesting themselves of dangerous pets back in the late 70’s.
    As for dangerous we ask you to walk through the bar door first we will be right behind you. Actually that was part three of my fathers advice on fighting.
    1) If you can walk away from a fight walk away.
    2) If you can’t walk away talk your way out of a fight.
    3) If none of the above work then let them walk out of the bar first then jump on them and smash their heads into the ground no mercy.
    Wise man but a hot head in his youth.

  62. Pointman says:

    Swan, the most difficult type to spot. An assassin with the manner of a rabbit. God help us all.


  63. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    I’m clueless about bar-fights – never got into one. Probably talked my way out of a few…LOL

  64. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Do we have to be on the lookout for rabbits with rabies?

  65. Blackswan as for dangerous well I can’t say we have the same type of dangerous just lots of really hard buggers that are unrefined and would beat people into a pulp for trying to chat up their beer.

  66. pointman rabies is a bugger for the most part the UK is rabies free as is a lot of North American thanks to strict control measures.

    As for violence and bars as much as you would try to avoid trouble it would sometimes find you back home and for no reason, won a few fights lost a few but I do have a punch that can break bones my dad taught me how to punch properly by putting my mass behind it and I’m a broadly built chappie.
    I’m by nature not a violent person but I do have an Irish temper and if someone takes a swing at me I will swing back hard.
    I’m just a big softie really at heart and really hate violence and go out of my way to avoid it at all times. I dislike firearms for that reason and if it was possible take away a lot of weaponry from a lot of psycho’s and criminals, I have no problem with people guns for self defense, hunting or sport.

  67. Pointman says:

    The older I got, the fewer fights I got involved in. It was probably the onset of wisdom. Having said that, I’ve no problems with people enjoying themselves.


  68. Blackswan Tasmania says:


    In case you’re interested………………..

    Local Tassie-made flies if you’re interested in ever trying a few.

    Know nothing about fishing myself, but I understand the passion of a devotee.

  69. Pointman says:

    Swanny, I’m beginning to think that Wallawoora already exists in Tassie and you’re encouraging me in that belief.


  70. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Only friends are invited…lol

  71. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Looking at that website, I noticed a “wet” called a Woolly Bugger…lol Only in Oz I guess.
    I knew an old guy once whose daughter-in-law was a hairdresser and she used to save all the good hair clippings for his fly-tying hobby. Very clever bloke.

  72. Blackswan Tasmania says:


    Saw that report. Is there ANY facet of our existence that isn’t tied to AGW?

    BTW How’s life in Beijing today? Have you been there long?

  73. Use dynamite for fishing it’s quicker all you need is a net.

  74. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    That’s OK unless you have a Labrador retriever who conscientiously brings the dynamite, burning wick intact, back to the “fisherman, as chronicled in “The Loaded Dog” by Henry Lawson, our fabled poet and author.

  75. Pointman says:

    I’ve seen people ‘fish’ with dynamite. They had no conception of the idea of respect. What goes around, comes around.


  76. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Big Bang fishing is by people looking for a feed rather than practicing the “art”. I guess that’s like “sporting shooters” who prowl around at night shooting livestock.

    I was just outback trying to take a photo of a sea eagle with my basic little digital camera. How frustrating. If I was any sort of photographer I’d probably invest in a decent camera. Still, a photo is never the same as the thrill of watching one circling about right above you, suspended on the breeze.

  77. Pointman says:

    Swan, If they’re hungry and eating everythng that comes up, no problem and screw the ‘art’.


  78. dynamite fishing is ok until you bite through a det cap and it blows your head off

  79. mercury det caps can be nasty

  80. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Sure, if you like frogs (sorry Amanda), yabbies (freshwater crayfish), and eels – oops, sorry, you Pommy fellas like eels I believe.

  81. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    “The horror of a year in climate La La Land”

    “A genuine Citizens’ Assembly, all squabbling and seething and obsessing for a whole year about how best to destroy our economy for no reason at all?”

  82. Amerloque says:

    Hello izen
    on July 26, 2010 at 5:38 am (reposted from the previous thread)

    /// Roy Spencer is not noted for his warmist sympathies, indeed he is one of the handfull of peer reviewed published climate scientists who is explicitly ANTI-AGW and still has some credibilty. ( well with some, personally his creationism puts him beyond the pale in my book)///

    Perhaps you should read another book ? This one can be particularly helpful. (grin)

    Amerloque suggests:

    “Rocks of Ages: Science and Religion in the Fullness of Life”


    Stephen Jay Gould

    “In his distinctively elegant style, Gould offers a lucid, contemporary principle that allows science and religion to coexist peacefully in a position of respectful noninterference. Science defines the natural world; religion our moral world in recognition of their separate spheres of influence. In exploring this thought-provoking concept, Gould delves into the history of science, sketching affecting portraits of scientists and moral leaders wrestling with matters of faith and reason. Stories of seminal figures such as Galileo, Darwin, and Thomas Henry Huxley make vivid his argument that individuals and cultures must cultivate both a life of the spirit and a life of rational inquiry in order to experience the fullness of being human.

    In Rocks of Ages, Gould’s passionate humanism, ethical discernment, and erudition are fused to create a dazzling gem of contemporary cultural philosophy.”

    “Revered and eminently readable essayist Stephen Jay Gould has once again rendered the complex simple, this time mending the seeming split between the two “Rocks of Ages,” science and religion. He quickly, and rightfully, admits that his thesis is not new, but one broadly accepted by many scientists and theologians. Gould begins by suggesting that Darwin has been misconstrued–that while some religious thinkers have used divinity to prove the impossibility of evolution, Darwin would have never done the reverse.
    Gould eloquently lays out not “a merely diplomatic solution” to rectify the physical and metaphysical, but “a principled position on moral and intellectual grounds,” central to which is the elegant concept of “non-overlapping magisteria.” (Gould defines magisteria as a “four-bit” word meaning domain of authority in teaching.) Essentially, science and religion can’t be unified, but neither should they be in conflict; each has its own discrete magisteria, the natural world belonging exclusively to science and the moral to religion.
    Gould’s argument is both lucid and convincing as he cites past religious and scientific greats (including a particularly touching section on Darwin himself). Regardless of your persuasions, religious or scientific, Gould holds up his end of the conversation with characteristic respect and intelligence. ”

    (The blurbs quoted above are from the listing.)

    Have a great day !


    Amerloque 20100726 09h45 Paris time (CET)

  83. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    “State government to close part of largest brown coal power station”

    “The most cost-effective way to clean up our environment and achieve this reduction in greenhouse gas over the next four years is to close two of the eight units at Hazelwood Power Station,” Premier John Brumby said.

    This from the state of Victoria, whose capital Melbourne is our second largest city.
    And all this after Hazelwood has won awards for carbon capture.

    Some bright spark seems to have had the smarts to build a power station on top of a coal mine (almost) and these Green idiots want to eventually close down the lot.

    /The business also seeks to utilise its by-products, such as kaolin (china clay) processing for the ceramic industry and its mineral ash for soil conditioning.
    In recent years, the power station and mine have won a series of awards and commendations for its workplace and environmental performance.
    In 2005 the Hazelwood business received an Australian Greenhouse Office Large Business Award for Outstanding Achievement in Greenhouse Gas Abatement.

  84. Amerloque says:

    Hello Amanda !
    On July 26, 2010 at 10:21 am

    /// Ed and Blackswan:
    Oh yeah, and 100-200 people (let’s say 150) is REALLY representative! Note that the pronouncement mentioned ‘the community’ — ‘the’ community? What community? ///

    Wahoo ! Sounds like they need a “community organizer”.

    Perhaps we could send them that jerkoff in Washington, D.C. ?



    Amerloque 20100726 10h00 Paris time (CET)

  85. Edward. says:


    Here’s something that I knew was on the cards, a Euro Stasi not so secret police it is hard to resist the parallels with Orwell’s most frightening book 1984: the thought police are here and we prostrate ourselves at the EU altar of tyrannical oppression and apathetically march to the EU’s tune, make no mistake there will be no dissent.

    Internet censorship will be next, mark my words.

    Cast iron ridiculously expects the electorate (who is more stoopid him or us?) to believe that he is Euro-sceptic, Cameron is part of the ****ing problem.

    Roll on the fall of the Euro, because it is going to take something as awful as that to stop these bastards.


  86. manonthemoor says:

    Good morning from the UK

    Today off topic — Conspiracy 2

    On the day when the BP board put wheels under their CEO I offer a view on the Gulf Oil scene from an American blogger who is to Peak Oil what James D was to AGW. Readers of my Oil topic will appreciate that I see PO/AGW as two sides of the same coin ie. The same result just a different route

    The bog link is here:-

    The blog is published weekly (Monday 14.00 UK time) and was very pro Obama and is now very critical. I have not had time to read the comments on this thread but normally they provide an interesting insight into USA thinking.

    I wonder what the views of Crown and Amanda are about the blog and comments:

    Of course we also have the breaking news of 91,000 leaked Afgan leaked intelligence documents using Wiki Leaks to inform the world.

    Is this the equivalent to the AGW emails which derailed Copenhagen?
    Will this change the public perception of the Afgan war?
    Who had access to such material?
    What was/is their grand plan?

    As with all conspiracy we have to wait for history to decide.

    Man on the Moor

  87. manonthemoor says:


    Post stuck in the works Oz

  88. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Hi Amerloque,

    Our reactions to these pronouncements is – “They’ve GOT to be kidding!!”

    The scary thing is, while friends & relatives & neighbours decry this Bureaucratic nonsense, the MSM doesn’t challenge them. Newspaper websites Comments hold them in contempt too, but the Juggernaut rolls on.

    Democracy, as we were brought up to understand it’s meaning, I fear is nothing but a chimera.

  89. Edward. says:


    Talking of sneaky bastards, this, in the remarkable Jo Nova’s blog, how Cap’n’trade can get in through the ‘rear entrance’, meaning the US public being shafted where it hurts:

    It ain’t about democracy, it never was – Obarmy is a slick boy, trouble is he don’t think much of his country…..does he?……………. no he thinks more of his mates in the (putative) Chicago Carbon Exchange and Goldman Sachs!

    A nice little earner for some, naturally not for Barrack of course but for his backers the sky is the limit………..all they need is the legislation……… .


  90. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    At the time Brown signed the Lisbon Treaty, didn’t I read that the Treaty allows EU Security Forces and EU Police full access onto British soil and the UK Police are bound to comply?

    We wondered at the time how Brits could allow it. Your sovereignty has, to all intents and purposes, dissolved.

    Sobering and sad.

  91. Edward. says:


    There is no altruism, no concern for saving the planet, it is all about the bottom line, kinda makes you a cynic……but that is what AGW is all about.
    We are caught in the middle, cash cows and ‘guinea pigs’ for our political masters.

    Save the planet?
    Don’t make me laugh!


  92. Edward. says:


    Yes I read between the lines and thought “that’s it!”
    We are a province now, not an independent state anymore (it was always going that way anyway).
    We have been lied to for so many years, they (EU politburo) couldn’t have done this to Britain in the Fifties but the dumbing down, the insidious, mendacious, gleeful Socialist re-engineering thereby changing our nation has worked.
    We are not free thinking, seafaring adventures anymore, we have changed and we have been frightened by EU faerie tales; like –
    “there will be 3 million jobs lost if we leave” blah blah, the public have been sold a lot of fresh air.

    I still challenge anybody to come up with one TANGIBLE benefit of our membership of the EU for the lowly man/woman, yes…… easy travel but we already had that anyway.
    Joe Public has never benefited and never will (the chatterati have, the elites do, the political sphere does as does big business – bankers, corporations, utilities)- we have been conned, a Bernie Madoff ponzi in spades.
    The greatest irony is; it (the EU) is a Socialist construct which benefits and enriches the nomenklatura of Europe, the proles are the losers.

    It is too late Swanny, unless the whole shebang collapses via the euro’s demise and that I wish for with every bone and sinew in my body (though it will cost us all dearly).


  93. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Take heart Ed,

    Pay attention to this……. different time, different place, but I do believe this could be our anthem, just needs a slight change in the lyrics….lol

    Feedback welcome.

  94. Locusts says:

    An imaginary taxi ride, in an imaginary city, on an imaginary today.

    A plush black Mercedes, coming from the opposite direction, cut in front of us, and joined the line of traffic to our right, causing the taxi driver to brake suddenly,
    “Fucking wanker” he said
    “If you’d have hit him, legally whose fault would it have been?”
    “His, of course, the arsehole. Even if I’d hit the rear end it still would have been his fault.”
    The Mercedes was still blocking the road, rush hour had just begun.
    “The thing is, he thinks he’s all that, just as he’s got a good car. That guy looks down on people with Xiali’s, VWs, taxis. These fucking rich people think they are all that. They just don’t give a fuck about us normal people now.”
    “Traditionally, Chinese people were renowend for their modesty.”I said.
    “Ha, not anymore. There’s too much distance between us and them now. They think, I’ve got money, you haven’t, so I’m better than you. Like the driver of that car, thinks that car is better, faster, with quicker acceleration than mine, so he just cut me up. It’s probably not even his car.”
    “No of course not, its an army car, that guy’s just the driver. Absolutely no respect whatsoever. A couple of weeks ago, I was stuck behind some sleek car, a Merc, or an Audi or something, it was going really slow. So I overtook it. It must have properly pissed off the driver to be overtaken by my shitty taxi, as he sped up overtook me and pushed me to the side of the road. At the traffic lights, he got out, came over and grabbed my arm, and said ‘Do you know who I am?’ I said, “I don’t care who you are, I’m just driving my car.’ He wanted my details, but luckily the lights changed so I shook his hand off my arm, told him to fuck off, and sped off.”
    “Does that happen a lot?”
    “Now and then. It’s these bloody army guys mostly. They are so fucking corrupt, them and the Party, every fucking one of them has their snout in the trough.”
    “What do you mean.”
    “Take the army for instance, they are so fucking black its unreal.”
    “Mafia? They are the mafia. Anything bad going on, there is bound to be some soldier behind it somewhere.”
    “I didn’t know there was a mafia problem here, I’ve been to some other cities though, where everywhere you go, you can sense the mafia.”
    “Well maybe it’s worse in other places, but it’s still bad here. Look, a while ago, a friend of mine got run over by an army car, they were refusing to do anything about it, so his mate got on the phone to the media. When the media turned up, with cameras and everything, the army guys refused to let them shoot, bundled my mate in to their car and sent him to an army hospital. They wanted to cover the story up, couldn’t have it exposed. The Government officials are just as bad, they don’t give a fuck about anyone, all they care about is lining their own pockets.” He said.
    “You mean all of them, surely there must be some good ones?” I said.
    “Maybe one! I think the President is a good man, and some of the other top guys, but the ones furthur down the ladder have no scruples whatsoever. They’re only happy if they’ve got some scam on the go. It’s just too bloody corrupt.” He said.
    “Well, in any country, if the elite are too remote from the people for too long, change happens, sometimes rather more change than the elite would be willing to accept.” I said.
    “Ha ha. That’d be the day. There’s probably some good officials, 10% maybe? No that’s still a few percentage points too high! They just need to start caring about the ordinary man and woman.”
    “Right, we’re here, just pull up over there.” I said.
    He looked around and he said, “Why are you getting out in this shithole, there’s nothing for foreigners to do here?”
    “I live over there.” I said pointing some where vaguely behind us.
    “So why didn’t you get me to stop there then, why here?”
    “Because, that, my friend,” I said, pointing at a dilapadated building, “is a shop.”

  95. Blackswan Tasmania says:


    You’re kindly giving us a lift in your taxi again, the least we can do is “chip in” for the fare.

    Thanks mate.

  96. manonthemoor says:

    Excellent locusts

    Give me more more more

    At least the taxi driver seemed human lol

  97. manonthemoor says:

    Hi Ed

    I could get used to a continental holiday , all expenses paid, but must be warm and sunny.

    Plenty of friends when they round us all up

  98. Edward. says:


    A story of our times, it could have been in Bruxelles, home to the Kleptocracy of the Peoples Republic of Europe, thank God, they do not have a ‘red army’ just an army of corrupt apparatchiks but on many levels the ‘same difference’ methinks.


    Ta Swanny, one of my all time fav’s alus will love that song and the lyrics are apt, no all is not lost, there are many like minded souls in Europe too, it is troubling that we cannot co-ordinate our mutual loathing/action, of the EU hydra and (a part of the same problem) AGW.


  99. Edward. says:


    Back to the gulag it will be!


  100. macksflophouse says:

    An update on exploding bloody DT blogs !!
    Me to Kate

    “I have email Kate directly and here is the result
    “Dear Mack,

    You were blocked from commenting on Telegraph blogs after you ignored two warnings from moderators about posting comments that directly attacked other people.

    We welcome robust debate and discussion of ideas, indeed discussion among readers is one of the most important elements of these blogs. However, ad hominem attacks and threats are unpleasant and do not enhance debate so they will be deleted if they are reported to our moderation team.

    We moderate by responding to complaints from readers via the “report” buttons next to reader comments and blog posts. A moderator reviews each report on its own merits and deletes the content if necessary. If rude comments have remained on the site it is likely to be because no one has reported them. If you see anything that you think is inappropriate, please alert us by clicking on the “report” buttons and someone will review it.

    There is more information about how we moderate here:

    Moderators are trained to work to guidelines and these are reviewed by senior editorial staff on a regular basis. Our policy is not to enter into discussion about each and every decision by the moderators. We have found such discussions are seldom constructive and in some cases can be legally problematic. If you have more general questions about our moderation guidelines, however, you are welcome to email me.

    Kind regards,


    On 26 July 2010 09:25, Mack wrote:

    Dear Kate, The number of folks who comment on the DT blogs who support the restoration of my ability to comment on the blogs now stands at 73. Is there any reason why I continue to be banned ?I logged in to the Christopher Booker blog last evening and my comments are still there but I am unable to log into the James Delingpole or Lord Tebbit blogs. I would be interested in hearing why I was banned while some rude comments were left untouched.



    Kate Day
    Communities Editor,

  101. macksflophouse says:

    I have sent the dear Kate another email
    “Dear Kate , As I have observed there were comments made which were far worse on the ad hominem front than I ever posted and I most times was responding in kind to attacks on me. Your Twitter correspondent “the bruhaha” seemed to get great satisfaction from my ban, I do hope that your friends are not influencing how moderation of the DT blogs is carried out. Once again I will draw your attention to the 73 people whom you are prepared to ignore.


  102. macksflophouse says:

    Sorry to bother you all but I though you might like an update.I got into the Booker blog last evening and it was all nice and polite but my stuff was removed this AM. Follow the saga at

  103. AlfredofAlbion says:

    My, Mack, you have been busy today!

    These emails are extremely interesting, did you post these emails on your blog, the Official Daily Telegraph Dissent Blog, by any chance? I would say, that a good policy in the future would be to link to your blog regarding any new correspondence between Ms. Day and your good self. All this Dissent spread over so many blogs may confuse lurkers as to the exact form and function of each site. Please feel free to e-mail me if you feel it necessary to e-wail.

    Alfred of Albion.

  104. So they respond to reported comments never seems to work when I do it, but today is going to be report anyone I disagree with day and I suggest we all do the same and flood them we do that for a week to teach em a lesson.

  105. Pointman says:

    Recruiting here for a blog war is something you should clear with Ozboy first.


  106. Nope just using there own tools against them I have refrained from reporting lots of people on purely free speech grounds no matter how offensive, now we find that they act on the reporting of any little pr*ck. In case you may not have noticed they only act on certain subjects such as Islam and homosexuality, hardly fair or balanced moderation.
    I’m just going to take zero tolerance policy towards peoples comments whom offend me for a few days if that makes extra work for them too bad. It was just a suggestion and if people wish to do so it’s up to them.

  107. Oh that’s a pity disqus is broken and is allowing me to report people more than once.

  108. Well I have just posted a new blog on the moderation question this and posed as questions to avoid any unpleasantness on a legal front.

  109. manonthemoor says:


    I know I have been on about this guy, but he has today done a marvellous piece about the American financial situation go read savour and panic.

    then compare it with the feeble JD efforts

  110. Edward. says:

    manonthemoor says:
    July 27, 2010 at 2:27 am

    Good post Motm and err no JD can’t write like that but we are talking a comparison of chalk and cheese IMHO.

    Worrying, the financial situation here is similarly dire, the readjustment will be painful to say the least.
    Every Western government is praying for the ‘upturn’ and wishing another consumer lead recovery, if truth be told it is not going to happen.
    People are going to have to change their ways, the days of have now, pay later are vanishing over the horizon, the good times are over for the western economies.
    We are going to have to produce more (difficult when China is around) and save more and buy a lot less to stay afloat and even then, the economies of the west will probably shrink – I think UK needs growth of 2.5/3% to stay just above water……it ain’t going to happen.
    If the West’s engine room (USA) stagnates and spirals into a downward cycle, it does not bode well for the European economies and our future, long or near term.
    October is the time for the cuts to be announced (here in the UK) and traditionally a time for stock market jitters/cataclysms……….it’s gonna be rocky and a bad winter ain’t going to help either.
    Pull the troops out of Afghanistan now, we’re going to need them here in Britain if it goes tits up, plus we can’t afford the losses both in terms of blood and lucre.

    What do our politicians think? …..”well we need more wind turbines!” says Chris Huhne……. .


    Blimey anybody got any good news???


  111. MOTM nice summary of the bits and pieces I have seen over the last year, basically things are going to get tough.

  112. Edward if the USA stalls or contracts even China will suffer badly.

  113. manonthemoor says:

    July 27, 2010 at 3:10 am

    and Crown

    Pleased you took the time to look, a thing to weep over rather than enjoy.

    The comments sometimes offer a window on USA for us in the UK, Kunstler has his followers just as JD did, humour as well sometimes.

    Ed you took the wind out of my sail’s tomorrow topic is wind just for Geoff Huhne.

  114. manonthemoor says:

    ps The Long Emergency by Kunstler is well worth reading and is down loadable as a .pdf


    man on the moor

  115. Amanda says:


    Re: Crown’s new thread (more like a speck of lint at present, since last I checked, no one had replied): The substance is entirely what one would expect, but the spelling is earth-shattering: ‘their’ instead of ‘there’ in the correct place! This must be a first. Pointman, take note. He was fooling us the whole time.

  116. manonthemoor says:

    Hi Amanda

    Interested if you have any views on the guy as posted by me below.

    How much does he and the comments, represent the state of America in these times?

    July 27, 2010 at 2:27

  117. Amanda says:

    re ‘have now, pay later’: foreign to my whole way of thinking (and budgeting). We run a cash economy in my household. Couldn’t start off that way: on the first house we did have a mortgage (cheap, with a high income at the time); but the house I’m selling right now was bought outright. We don’t have credit cards, only debit. If we can’t pay for something right now, we don’t buy it. Makes life real simple. And if most other people had functioned that way, borrowing only what they could truly afford to re-pay, or not borrowing at all, the USA wouldn’t have had the property-markets/economic mess we got into. At least not anything like to the same degree.

  118. Locusts says:

    Another good article by Tebbit:

    You’ll spot my rather emotional post below. Something rather strange happened to me as I read that article. For the first time, I realized quite what a good writer Tebbit is, he is incredible at masking his emotions with balanced prose and seemingly innocuous sentences. But if you let your eyes unfocus, and think ‘why did he write that sentence?’ to every sentence in his piece, you will see that Old Norm is absolutely furious.

  119. Amanda says:

    Thanks for asking my opinion! I shall have a butcher’s when I have done at least SOME of the work I’m supposed to be doing today. One can’t be doing the high life 24/7, can one? Cheers, and chat later….

  120. Edward. says:

    Amanda says:
    July 27, 2010 at 3:47 am

    Hello Amanda,

    It is a simple way and the best ways are the simplest.

    Lady it is the only way to be.

    From someone who had it about right and as usual eloquence, nicety and an economy of words.

    Neither a borrower nor a lender be,
    For loan oft loses both itself and friend,
    And borrowing dulls the edge of husbandry.

    The Bard.


  121. Edward. says:

    Locusts says:
    July 27, 2010 at 3:49 am

    Read it earlier myself locusts, Tebbit keeps his emotions in check, always had time for Norman.
    In this latest post he is right, so right.


  122. Locusts says:


    That Bard is a genius.

  123. Locusts says:

    Am I being dense, or has OrkneyLad had his blog deleted:

  124. macksflophouse says:

    Acting on good advice I have updiddlydidoed the link to the gory details of the DT is now

    Orkers and I watched as his DT blog assassinated by the inquisition 🙂

  125. macksflophouse says:

    @crown I move to my new digs at the weekend and have one little part of a stone shed earmarked as Le Brewery, using wine yeast a chap can make his own 15-18% neckoil .Use coke 2 lt bottles if you have no kegs. I go now to bless your site

  126. Paid a visit to yours missed a lot of comments. You are now on my approved list.

  127. orkneylad says:

    Self immolation…..nothing to see there, move along…..I decided today that I would remove my presence from the DT, as I see it there is simply no point in injecting anymore time and effort into that resource……I’d rather jump than be pushed & the DT is already dead as a conduit IMHO.


    Needless to say my ‘anderson shelter’ will remain [in the sig] should it be needed down the line.


  128. Edward. says:

    Locusts says:
    July 27, 2010 at 3:57 am

    Agreed Locusts (grin)!


  129. Edward. says:

    Locusts, I should have said; sheer poetry.


  130. Old Toad says:

    In the proud tradition of Will Heaven and Tom Chivers the latest DT blogger to have a ‘punt’ at JD is no less an august personage than the Daily Telegraph’s Group Foreign Editor, Adrian Michaels, who says ‘Where are my angry climate colleagues in their hour of Victory ?’ Although, as we all know, a mention of the DT’s favourite blogger is a sure way of increasing your ‘comment’ rate, he may now be regretting it. Long dormant ‘climate realists’ are emerging like angry hornets to pour scorn on his post.
    The favourite weapon in the ‘realists’ armoury is a short presentation by an Australian Professor named Bob Carter, someone I’d never heard of before, but he’s awfully convincing !

  131. Well beats Damian’s usually boring blogs. Also are the moderators on a tea break then.

  132. manonthemoor says:

    Old Toad
    July 27, 2010 at 7:22 am

    Do we think James is on holiday or gardening leave?

    Does anyone know?

  133. Edward. says:


    Solar magnetic fireworks soon?
    I love stuff like this.

    “Coronal mass ejections temporarily compress the Earth’s magnetic field, “stretching it out on the midnight side, opposite the sun,” Odenwald says, generating currents in the ground powerful enough to melt copper windings in transformers. At the solar maximum, he adds, there might be 10 coronal mass ejections in a week.”

    In our part of the galaxy, the sun rules the roost.


  134. MOTM why you thinking about stealing the candlesticks?

  135. Old Toad says:

    Crown. I’m sure an august personage like the Group Foreign Editor is allowed to do his own ‘moderating’, but in this case he’d have no ‘comments’ left. LOL !
    MOTM. James is on holiday. As the kids aren’t allowed near the telly, he’s probably banned from the computer. He might sneak out and post at the dead of night !

  136. manonthemoor says:

    July 27, 2010 at 7:36 am

    Ed I believe every word of it just like AGW

    Will the tin foil hats work or is tht only for Katla?

  137. Old toad he does not seem to be making any friends at the moment.

  138. MOTM a tin foil hat and electrical current everywhere could be dangerous.

  139. manonthemoor says:

    July 27, 2010 at 7:55 am

    Crown the hats ensure our brains are just nice and crisp and crackly.

    Such a shame because the lights may be out anyway courtesy our friend Huhne who has this dastardly plan to shut down our electricity using the precautionary principle so beloved by our government.

  140. Ozboy says:

    G’day all,

    New short story entered here from our own ManOnTheMoor.


  141. MOTM I suggest giant hamster wheels for AGW supporters the supply of electricity would be constant.

  142. Old Toad says:

    Crown. If he was the sort of person who wanted to please people he would probably be in the cabinet with his old mate ‘Dave’. As an earlier Lord Acton said ‘Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men… There is no worse heresy than that the office sanctifies the holder of it.’
    James is infuriated by the great and the good, like the noble Lords who have so corrupted ‘science’. Probably in his search for the ‘truth’ he has not endeared himself to a lot of people, but in the Kate/Mack dispute he’s between a rock and a hard place, and either way he’s the loser.

  143. OLDTOAD I believe he did try to get him back, James D is not our problem it’s the censorship it seems to be heavily biased on certain themes. I wish we could get back to serious debate on the science and politics of it all if that’s possible between two polarized camps. Although Damocles just pointed out censorship on the other side of things.

  144. macksflophouse says:

    The problem at the DT is a young girl with no cop on and too many mates on twitter telling her how to run the blogs.Simples.Jd is not a problem nor are any of the other bloggers.Well OK then,maybe one or two.

  145. orkneylad says:

    Ed – the Sun is an electro-magnetic monster……forget the fusion model it isn’t supported by the evidence:

    The Electric Sun Hypothesis

    No doubt someone will try to explain away why the sun’s surface is ~6000deg whilst the corona can be in the millions of degrees……..if the Sun is essentially a ‘fusion’ reactor, shouldn’t the outer corona be -at least- a touch cooler than the photosphere?

    Plasma Physics’ Answers to the New Cosmological Questions by Dr. Donald E. Scott 1 of 7

  146. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    MOTM @ 2.27am

    Thanks MOTM. That link was one of the best summaries of our global economic collapse I read. Thanks.

  147. orkneylad says:

    Melanie Phillips at the Speccy……ah she gets better by the day.

    “a Grand Narrative that has now spectacularly collapsed before our eyes, even though certain politicians are as ever well behind the curve and are currently stranded alongside the professionally compromised activists who will never admit their epic error — Stott observes that an explanation for the phenomenon can be provided by the psychological theory of Maslow’s ‘hierarchy of needs”

    The pathological hierarchy of humbug:

  148. Pointman says:

    Amanda July 27, 2010 at 3:39 am

    The age of miracles is upon us. Some things are unbelievable, like Heskey’s retirement


  149. ScouseBilly says:

    Old Toad, I found the freewales post:

    Currently on comments page 14 (based on “newest first”) at

    1 week ago

    Taken from the Guardian

    As you may be aware, a conservative blogger called Richard North is currently threatening to sue the Guardian, as a result of an article I wrote criticising his claims that the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change had “grossly exaggerated the effects of global warming on the Amazon rainforest”.

    Until this point I hadn’t paid him much attention, but following his complaint I’ve been reading his blog more regularly. Earlier in the week I came across this. It might give us some insight into the motivation behind his campaign against the European Union and, perhaps, against the IPCC and its chairman, Rajendra Pachauri.

    Under the heading “Liar, liar!”, North ponders whether lying “is an in-built part of human nature”. He then goes on to say the following:

    “What would be really interesting in this respect would be an examination of cultural attitudes to lying – why, for instance, Indians such as Rajendra Pachauri are practiced liars and why others find it difficult to accept that they are being lied to, even in the face of incontrovertible evidence.”

  150. Amanda says:


    I believe you about miracles, even though Heskey is a name that rings no bells with me. (Yes, ignorant about a lot of things.)

    Anyway Pointy you asked for ‘more’, so here is a vid I recorded this afternoon on one of my favourite subjects, the junction of history, culture and language. Call it the second instalment. One mea culpa: I should have said ‘order’ instead of ‘family’ to be accurate. I can’t edit, so a booboo like that just has to slide….


  151. Amanda says:

    Gosh, where are y’all? Can’t read because hubby’s watching TV news (which I have one eye on, too). Don’t feel like retiring to the bedroom (in the hotel). So you guys are a large part of my entertainment right now.

    P. S. Since I’m not appearing on Fox News, I did my vid having just showered, hence my hair is wet (not greasy!).

  152. Im here amanda just catching up on the DT stuff.

  153. I have been recommending catapults as a means of transport for the elderly at the upcoming popes visit on Damian T’s blog. I’m a practical solution kind of guy.

  154. Pointman says:

    Amanda July 27, 2010 at 9:54 am

    Hi Amanda, a really enjoyable monologue on the noble ladybird or ladybug. We share an interest in words and how they evolved. Here’s an interesting piece on the forces driving changes


    ps Didn’t spot any booboos!

  155. Amanda says:

    Crown, catapults sound really good, dear, but I suggest that a few Trojan Horses might be more economical, although they might bugger up the traffic flow in London.

    Chris doesn’t believe that your catapults are really meant to be ‘a means of transport’: he said: you throw ’em in the air and they get there but they’re dead on arrival. After all they’re elderly and break easily. He assumed that you meant this to function in much the same way as elderly Eskimos being sent adrift on ice floes…. I told him he was mistaken. Of course.

  156. Pointman says:

    There are worse things that can be fired out of catapults

    The ferocity of the insulting reminds me of Mack.


  157. amanda thankyou for pointing out the serious flaw in my plan maybe some cushions scattered about.

  158. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Last night ABC TV broadcast a program called Q&A, a “panel” of pollies, one journo (Spectator), Labor aparatchik etc etc.

    It’s a very interesting watch if you want to see how truly screwed Australian politics has become.

    At one point, the bull-dyke Climate Minister (right-hand man to PM) was asked if the new Citizens Assembly will be given both sides of the AGW argument and include sceptic opinion.

    She repeatedly said “credible scientific opinion” would be sought. It was put to her that without both points of view, the exercise would have no credibility and be pointless. Again, “credible scientific opinion”.

    Milne, the one-time Tasmanian schoolteacher/Green Senator is adamant. 100% shut-down of coal power stations.

    We are screwed.

  159. Amanda says:

    Pointman: I thank you for the link. However, I should like to say here and for the record that I would never be caught dead saying ‘like, you know’, which I consider an inarticulate person’s poor attempt to grab at communication. I never have to say ‘like’; I always speak precisely and to the point. To say ‘he was just, like…’ is to say ‘I cannot speak effectively in English, I’m a poor waif orphan of the mother tongue, I lack the tools with which to express myself’. Some of the most undesirable changes in our language have come from America, and I say this as a sworn American married to a native one. I particularly don’t like ‘lay’ for all circumstances (e.g. ‘if I lay down I fall asleep’) nor ‘practise’ for ‘practice’ (no noun-verb distinction in that case); nor ‘anymore’ or ‘everytime’ or ‘everyday’ (pointless running together of words with no sense of how we actually speak those words, i.e. as two); and the list goes on. Needless to say I’m a right language bore but try to keep that aspect to myself as much as possible.

    Glad you discerned no booboos, though. Hope it is not too obvious just how many fries and burgers and dairy-rich desserts I’ve had since the last recording. Self-denial is so hard….

  160. Amanda says:

    Actually I think it’s the other way around: ‘practice’ all the time, whether noun or verb. I believe there’s a reason for that, but too boring to relate. And anyway, it’s late….

  161. amanda the running together of words is a German influence so much of a hurry to conquer the world they didn’t have time for spaces.
    As for Like that’s Merseyside thing and a Teeside thing as well and work is waark.

  162. Amanda says:

    Crown, I just think of the fact that my father can understand Shakespearean English (though just a working-class boy from Walthamstow in what was Essex and now is London), but students now, especially Americans, need every bloody word explained to them…

    I don’t like the fact that the presumption of justice is always with the changers — any change, good bad or indifferent, is considered natural and thus right, but the desire to preserve is considered unnatural, unhelpful, and wrong. And I dispute that most strongly.

  163. Blackswan so I assume they do not want electricity.

  164. Amanda says:


    Thanks for that anecdote about the dog and the croc, which is truly horrifying — and I don’t care whether the dog was ‘hard’ or ‘soft’. Dogs are dogs. Man’s best friend. What the hell do you call a croc? The razor teeth and the lifeless eyes at the water hole. Save ’em for the nature documentary.

  165. Amanda says:

    Pointman: And thanks for saying my vid was enjoyable. My presentation is off-the- cuff but I assure you that the thinking behind it is not….

  166. amanda I agree with you about the left wing tendency to promote any change as good which invariably leads to poverty misery and illiteracy which I suppose is the goal. Can’t keep em down if they can think.
    They have destroyed marriage, the family and any sense of self responsibility, however I have noticed that creeps up the ladder and has started to destroy them as well billionaires children trying to be porn stars about sums it up.

  167. Amanda says:

    Crown, I just couldn’t have said it better myself. Don’t ever let them tell you you’re wrong, because you are so completely and unerringly right. Bouquets, booze, cheers and money your way!

  168. amanda I assume they started with the black community first and thoroughly trashed about 70% of that with welfare single motherhood and drugs oh how they must have laughed. Now it’s a white persons problem as well and infecting every where in the West. Education is dumbing down fast.

  169. As for Shakespeare was not quite so bad for us as we sang the olde time hymns at school and our version of English is Aulde anyhow.

  170. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Hi Amanda,

    I, too, enjoyed your latest installment in language observations.

    As for dogs, they really are different. What they do have in common is an innate desire to please their masters/owners and a working dog seems to have a different sense of himself than a regular house-pet.

    I would never presume to distract a working dog of any sort. A blind acquaintance once told me the biggest problem was to deal with well-meaning passers-by or visitors from wanting to pet her dog. I guess “sniffer” dogs have the same difficulty.

    Especially dogs whose capacity for being “mean bastards” has been exaggerated as in guard dogs or “pig” dogs. Nasty buggers.

    Bit like people really – arms length until you suss them out, unless you’re happy to lose your arm…lol

  171. Edward. says:

    Morning all,

    Sorry to ‘get’ serious but this (below) is something I find worrying and absolutely real, I have to be careful here because I do not want nor desire to tread on anybodies toes.

    The inability of the alarmists to listen to any rationale to me is the frightening thing, there are of course cynics on the warmists side, Romm would be one, Connolley another (they no more believe in AGW than people here), they stoke the fire; “wind ’em up and watch ’em tick! – is their fun.

    The most worrying bunch are the reasonably well educated middle class veg eating zealots of greenpeace et al, eco fascists with a terrorist’s approach to CAGW and unbelievers thereof.
    Romm and Connolley take great care to provide the ammunition and ‘materiel’ to these loonies.
    It is credulous in the extreme to think politicians are religious about anything unless it is an unhealthy narcissism, though they worship power and ‘believing in green’ is become a pathway to achieving status and power, so they ramp up the quasi religiosity of AGW and make it semi-religious – for it suits their purposes very well.

    It is easy because the people (or some) have been primed by the media/lack of good education/upstanding role models, many live in a vacuum of consumerism and rapacious greed but yearning for something more tangible and real……………(to them anyway), empty vessels awaiting the call……………


  172. manonthemoor says:

    Good morning world readers from the UK

    Today we deal with a slightly embarrassing subject WIND
    This day also coincides with a big presentation to parliament today by the biggest wind bag of all Chris Huhne.


    Oops, Sorry — pardon me, I’ll repeat that again.
    Too much baked beans, cabbage, cucumber, and red kidney beans.

    There are two main types of wind suck and blow, plus things that use wind.

    A/ Winds that blow
    Natures Wind 1:- North Wind, South Wind, East Wind, West Wind and All those, in between.
    Natures Wind 2:- Draught, Breeze, Gust, Blow, Gale, Tornado

    Electric Wind:- Cooling Fan, Cooling tower, Air conditioning Fan, Blower, Hair drier (Not pink hair like mine)
    Earth Wind:- Mistral, Solar Wind

    Flying Wind, Hovercraft, Jet Engines and Turbulence

    Human Wind:- Cough, Sneeze, Hiccough, Belch, Raspberry and Beans (Pardon Me)

    B/ Winds that Suck
    Electric Suck:- Laptop Cooling Fan, Dental Saliva/bit vac, Leaf Vac Collector. Dyson Cleaner, Car Radiator Fan, PC Processor Fan, or

    Flying Suck:- Jet Engine, Turboprop engine and helicopter blades.

    C/ Things that use Wind
    Flying Wind:-Sails, Wings, Birds, Gliders Hang Gliders, and Kites

    D/ Literary Wind:- A sigh, An Ill wind, Fresh Air, Foul Air, Stale Air, Country Air, Breath of air, Frosty Air and Miasma.

    But wait there is another pointless or useless form of wind Windmills these are unusual in that they sometimes are used to do useful work, example areas are as follows:-
    True Windmills used for grinding corn etc the province of a miller.
    Wind pumps used in remote locations to provide well water etc, for people animals and crops.
    Wind generators used by small sea craft to provide valuable electrical power for navigation, radar and communications.

    We do however have to illusionary uses of wind power.
    Micro-generation (Micro thinking)
    The attachment of wind generators to domestic houses based upon the false promise of profit and independence.

    The catches are as follows:-
    The output never matches the sales pitch
    Batteries are expensive heavy and have a limited life
    Despite insane subsidies the in-feed to the grid is almost zero and considerable power is wasted in the expensive control electronics
    Thus the Return on Investment is typically over 100 years
    FOLLOW THE MONEY Joe public in taxes pays for an illusion Joe public at home is scammed.

    NOW Wind Turbines
    Or upside down eggbeaters as famously described!

    The catches are as follows
    Expensive, UN reliable, Unsightly, Non UK manufacture, More energy to make than recover, Bird Killers, Noise Pollution, Grid connect infrastructure (Worse off shore), Insane Government Subsidy and finally the wrong kind of wind. –Too light – Too strong thus causing a need for backup capacity to meet normal demand profile. –In Summary as if the point need be made further, USELESS

    Joe public to pay for large subsidies to have their electricity bills increased, a lose lose state of affairs.
    Joe public loses valuable land and scenery to and abuse of wildlife and noise pollution based on evil installation grants they ultimately pay for.

    See := for full details
    Now question time:-

    Who benefits from the installation of windmills?
    Will windmills EVER contribute more than 5% capacity?
    What is the lifecycle of a windmill?
    Where are windmills made?
    How much energy does it take to make a useless windmill?
    Which is worse the windmills or the infrastructure and controllers?

    Why is no one seriously asking these questions and listening to the answer.

    Do we have politicians and an education system so dumbed down that no one dare point out the King Has No Clothes.

    Germany and Scandinavia cannot make it work is the country run by lemmings?





    Man on the Moor

  173. Blackswan Tasmania says:


    A brilliant summary of the stark reality facing modern politics/economy, the fall-out to be borne entirely by we, the hapless citizens of the West.

  174. Old Toad says:

    ScouseBilly, Crown et al. Life’s a bit frenetic, keeping pace with all the comments and replies on Adrian Michaels, Lord Tebbit, Mack, Ozboy and James’s ‘Huhne’ blog. It’s easy to miss important posts. Glad we’ve now identified ‘freewales’, I’m sure the narcissist in him really wanted this.
    Those ‘hackers’ who got into the Carbon Exchange Website have done us all a favour.
    The uneasy alliance between the green eco-fascists and the men in red braces can now be seen to be as fragile as that between Tories (the 74% in the HofC who don’t believe in AGW) and the Libdims. In both cases the wheels are coming off their waggons quicker than they anticipated !

  175. NoIdea says:


    I have never been happy with Dr Roy Spencers grasp of physics. I had started pointing out some of the major flaws in his reasoning. It got very long and quite quickly dull, so I scrapped it.
    I repeat my assertion that Doctor Roy cannot boil an egg. Please do go read some of my previous mentions of him.

    If I stand, dressed in heavy greatcoats, beside you dressed in your birthday suit, next to a roaring fire, who will move away first? Me (Mr. two-coats to you) or you the naked hippy stood next to me?
    Who will get closer to the fire before the heat becomes too hot?
    According to melon think it will of course be the Hippy or Moon unit.

    Well I hereby challenge EVERYONE who wants to believe that an extra coat will cause runaway heating effect to come and play with me IN the bonfire, I with my faith in the laws of physics and reality will be wearing the heaviest and possibly water soaked clothes, just to make sure I am appropriately represented as the Earth with an atmosphere.
    YOU true believers Izen, Doctor Roy, Roddy Campbell etc must of course be stark bullock naked. (Moons)
    Then let us wait for physics to make its judgment.
    IF I am wrong I am prepared to DIE for my sins in a catastrophic runaway feedback of cold things heating hot things.
    IF I am right perhaps I will learn how close a NAKED whining watermelon with no grasp of physics or reality can get to a large fire before they get it.
    There is a chance that the naked hippy melons will just march into the fire in their zealotry.
    IF they come back out I will be very impressed with their power of faith.
    Do melons explode if you put them in a fire?


  176. Amerloque says:

    Hello Edward !
    on July 26, 2010 at 7:29 pm

    /// … I still challenge anybody to come up with one TANGIBLE benefit of our membership of the EU for the lowly man/woman, yes…… easy travel but we already had that anyway. …///

    Amerloque has been throwing down this very same gauntlet here in France for many years, now.

    In return he has received no genuine answers, but rather touchy-feely, politically-correct, sophomoric platitudes, such as ‘no need for a passport at the border’ and ‘electric sockets have been standardized throughout Europe’.

    Well does he remember the wonderful France of the ’60s and 70s, before the ‘Union Europeenne’ bee ess began taking over.

    /// … Joe Public has never benefited and never will (the chatterati have, the elites do, the political sphere does as does big business – bankers, corporations, utilities)- The greatest irony is; it (the EU) is a Socialist construct which benefits and enriches the nomenklatura of Europe, the proles are the losers.
    It is too late Swanny, unless the whole shebang collapses via the euro’s demise and that I wish for with every bone and sinew in my body (though it will cost us all dearly).

    Roll on the fall of the Euro, because it is going to take something as awful as that to stop these bastards. ///

    Over the past forty years here in France as a foreign resident, Amerloque has witnessed the destruction of French society thanks to EU, designed and managed by ignorant, inexperienced, corrupt, unelected bureaucrats who couldn’t give a whit about the needs of the people.

    The euro is an attempt to foist political union of the member states onto brainwashed populations. There are certainly more important issues: for example, massive and constant immigration of populations which can not or refuses to integrate into French society and adopts its uses and customs. Enoch Powell and his famous phrase come to mind.

    The sooner the EUSSR explodes, the better it will be for everyone, i.e., the peoples of Europe (and not their self-serving rulers, all of whom are beholden to World Governance).

    The UK will survive as an independent entity as long as it has the pound ! One cannot put too high a price on liberty.

    Over here, millions upon millions of illegal and legal immigrants (about 1/5th of the French population of 63 million or so is immigrant, e.g. …), contributing very little or nothing to the local economies, are sending billions upon billions of euros in regular remittances back to their “home” countries instead of spending the money here.

    “Modern” immigration is as unlike “classical” immigration as chalk to cheese. At the beginning of the 20th century, immigrant Scots, Poles and Italians didn’t send 1/2 or more of their pay back to the “old country”, as immigrants do today. There were no entitlements back then, either ! The richer EU countries are now being bled to support the poorer ones, as well as the Third World.

    Here in France one can actually feel the living standard declining day by day, with rampant unemployment, soaring crime, and terminal incompetence making up the top three issues. Of course, the educational system has been dumbed down to produce a population of malleable, childlike cretins. (sigh)

    According to the British press this morning (July 27), the world-governance dunce Cameron is preparing to urge the EU to allow the entrance of Turkey.

    This jerkoff is allegedly a “Conservative” ?!? What has the UK electorate wrought ?


    Amerloque 20100727 10h45 Paris time (CET)
    Stand strong, Arizona !

  177. scud1 says:

    Evening / afternoon / morning everybody.

    Been away for a few days…lounging about, drinking copious quantities of booze and eating trouser busting amounts of pasta in amongst the hills of Tuscany. All very lovely, but I couldn’t bloody wait to get back to see what you blokes had been up to… and I’m not disappointed, over a 1000 excellent comments in 6 days…that’s productive that is.

    Bit out of date but if you haven’t seen this…

    It’s worth a look because of one major screw up by the author (concerning conservatism) and the comments section. Readers of ‘Nature’ roundly turning on the farce that is ‘AGW’.

  178. Edward. says:


    Great stuff, there is no argument (rational one) whatsoever for the installation of even one wind turbine.
    Fairly near to where I live is a large grit-stone folly, it can be observed for miles around in all directions, that was the intention.
    Wind turbines – similarly so, the stone folly is more useful.

    Wind turbines will stand out as testament to the folly of brain dead, maniacal eco-zealotry of ‘green’ politicians, alas they will not ‘pay’ for their mental aberrations but we know well, those who will in the end pick up the tab.

    Children of the future will not look upon these broken monuments, not as great designs which helped to ‘save the world’ but as the start of a suicidal rush over the economic cliff by the west. All of this, in a futile attempt to combat a nebulous and non existent threat and will regard them as follies to politician’s hubris-tic claim to be protectors and guardians of the environment.


  179. criticalThinker says:

    An interesting take on what powers the Sun by Prof. O. Manuel –

    a) Why is the Sun’s emission of neutrinos only about 1/3 the amount expected from fusion reactions ?
    b) Why is the ratio of Oxygen atoms to Carbon atoms only 2 at the Sun’s surface, when laboratory and theoretical calculations predict a much higher value ?
    c) If fusion powers the Sun, why does it discard 50 trillion tons of Hydrogen each year as “solar wind” trash, with traces of other elements carefully sorted by atomic weight ?
    d) How do deep solar magnetic fields sort elements by weight, control Earth’s climate, and produce the solar wind, solar flares and gigantic solar eruptions ?
    e) How are we to understand the universe when, as Nobel Laureate William A. Fowler noted in 1988, “. . . we do not even understand how our own star really works.”

    Read the rest here…

    Click to access The_Suns_Origin.pdf

  180. Amerloque says:

    Hi motm !
    on July 27, 2010 at 5:52 pm

    In res wind

    Many thanks for a wonderful choice of word! Excellently done !

    On a lighter note … many, many years ago, as a birthday gift to a friend who was “heavily into crossword puzzles”, his wife and I spent hours and hours devising a viciously difficult puzzle, in which all the answers are names of winds. Hours and hours of library research enabled us to produce a suitable one, which took him days to solve.

    It turned out that there are hundreds, if not thousands, of names for winds throughout the world. Fascinating.

    Of course, with the internet, it’s a bit easier today than ‘way back then ! (grin)

    Names of winds

    More names of winds

    The Wiki entry on winds offers yet more names …

    Now, back to your regular programs … (grin)

    Amerloque 20100727 11h15 Paris time (CET)

  181. orkneylad says:

    Ed – Be careful with this Roddy Campbell chap…..he shows little understanding of the science & I feel he is just as ‘agenda led’ as the religio-environmentalists…..he’s a hedge-fund bigwig & whilst that’s not necessarily a ‘bad’ thing, one should perhaps be sceptical of the line he’s currently pushing.

    “There never was a Garden of Eden – life in bygone days was nasty, brutish and short. Children died, painfully. Colonialists exterminated indigenous populations whether by violence or disease. Children were sent up chimneys. There were no poets, no thinkers, no freedom. It was awful, as far from Eden, and always was, as you could get.”

    The ‘Garden of Eden’ is a biblical metaphor for the world before man’s ‘creation’. The Bible is littered with metaphor, is he so naive that he assumes this is taken literally by all judaeo-christians? That is a very missguided opinion.

    As for nasty, brutish, bygone days, he seems to project this across the full expanse of history as if -prior to the late 20th century- we lived in a perpetual dark-age from ancient times to the present…….Quite apart from the complete ignorance of this statement, one cannot project today’s mores on the past in any meaningful fashion. Humanity a thousand years from now will call our present age a barbarous one.

    “There were no poets, no thinkers, no freedom.”
    What about the father of poetry, Homer? Greek Philosophy?
    The song of Solomon, the Psalms, the Chinese ‘book of songs’?
    It’s quite extraordinary, this statement of his….& does he believe we are more ‘free’ now?

    “When men stop believing in God, it isn’t that they then believe in nothing: they believe in everything.”
    — Umberto Eco

    [I’m agnostic btw]


  182. scud1 says:


    Turkey first…then Syria, Iraq then Iran. Better get those C02 free concrete plants up to speed. We’re going to need lots of it.

  183. manonthemoor says:

    July 27, 2010 at 6:57 pm

    Hi Amerloque

    Pleased you picked up on ‘cast iron Dave’ and his jolly to Turkey.

    By what right does he as Prime Minister of the UK to ‘invite and support’ the application of Turkey into the EU, made even more stupid since the UK is not a full total member of the EU, also without the support of the electorate.

    The excuse used is that major trade opportunities are available to the UK with Turkey,
    yes this may be so but in return we may be importing oil and immigrants. I wonder which we need most?

    This situation is only surpassed by our chancellor of the exchequer and his team, fawning over Tata in India at present, following the shut down of Ravenscar.

    Total madness — We could not make it up!

  184. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Your reports from the heart of Europe (from our antipodean perspective), are a revelation. We occasionally hear reports such as attempts to restrict religious head-ware in schools, usually resulting in disallowing ALL religious tokens such as crucifixes etc which the French aren’t happy about. Sometimes you have a little “unrest” in the “‘burbs” or they clean out the illegals’ camps around Calais, but it’s not often reported here.

    I venture to say, that unless I’d been reading the London DT this last 12 months or so, I’d probably think the EU was still the Common Market that it started out to be.

    I posted a Comment in a Sydney paper some months ago about the UK losing her self-determination and sovereignty with the Lisbon Treaty, and was howled down in Replies as ignorant and having no idea what I was talking about. I have taken a view about casting pearls before ignorant swine.

    Everything you describe about life in modern France has come to pass in Australia. I’m sure that the usual impression created by our tourist industry is of big bronzed blokes and bikini-clad babes, with kangaroos and koalas in every backyard, along with a BBQ and jolly pool parties. In our dreams for most, and a reality for few, and we don’t keep native animals for pets.

    Recent surveys have disclosed that Aussie-made produce and grocery items are cheaper in London than they are here in our own supermarkets. We pay more for groceries than anywhere else and it’s rising every week.

    The social engineering, unsustainable legal and illegal immigration, AGW Fraud and crime levels are a fact everywhere in the West. NZ has just implemented their Carbon Tax Policies from July 1st and already prices for everything have sky-rocketed.

    And still the Juggernaut rolls on.

    I have developed a circle-the-wagons mentality. Nobody wants to hear the truth. Politicians refuse to even acknowledge correspondence, let alone deign to reply to any questions. They are only interested in Party donation funds and bums-on-seats for their photo-ops. It’s my intention to protect me and mine, as best I can.

    I have come to the reluctant conclusion that to be a truth-seeking sceptic and to see the reality of the modern world, is the difference between being screwed when you’re conscious and being screwed when you’re comatose. Everyone but we sceptics seem to be walking about with their Eyes Wide Shut.

    They’re all going to wake up one day to find themselves saddled with “unintended consequences”, namely a massive pregnancy that will devour them from the inside out. Gee, how did that happen? Sheesh, maybe someone will even make a new religion out of the phenomenon.

  185. Amerloque says:

    Hello All !

    In the online edition of the Los Angeles Times this morning (July 27)

    /// Wind farm ‘mega-project’ underway in Mojave Desert

    The Alta Wind Energy Center — with plans for thousands of acres of turbines to generate electricity for 600,000 Southern California homes — officially breaks ground Tuesday. …/… ///

    Sheer insanity. (sigh)

    Amerloque 20100727 12h19 Paris time (CET)

  186. Pointman says:

    scud1 July 27, 2010 at 7:08 pm

    Welcome back Scud. I’d given up bothering to read Nature some time due to the complete dumbing down of what was a ‘must read’ periodical. The comments are very good.


  187. Pointman says:

    Amanda July 27, 2010 at 1:15 pm

    Don’t get me started on effect and affect. I think I’ll give up on that one.


  188. Dave,Edinburgh says:

    Having read the article by Dr Spencer “How Cooler Objects Make Warmer Objects Even Hotter”, link supplied by Izen,

    Surprise Surprise, I do not agree with Dr Spencer, Why not? Clearly Dr Spencer is “taking the wee wee” as he more or less admits in his answer to AverageIQ.

    Average IQ says:
    “How Cooler Objects Make Warmer Objects Even Hotter”???
    “Shouldn’t that be: – “How HEATED Objects Make Cooler Objects Warmer” ?
    “The title confuses cause and effect”.

    Reply, Roy W. Spencer, Ph. D. says:

    “Yes, that would have been more specific, less ambiguous, and so more accurate. But it would have been less fun”.

    also in his thought experiment he covers his tracks well, eg in The Second Law of Thermodynamics he states “Yes, thermal conduction involves energy flow in only one direction. But radiation flow involves energy flow in both directions.
    Of course, in the context of the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics, both radiation and conduction processes are the same in the sense at the NET flow of energy [ie heat] is always “downhill”, from warmer temperatures to cooler temperatures”.

    No more needs to be said, the rest simply states the bleedin obvious, “if one puts a blanket on the bed, one is warmer than if one is laying there in the noddy” So by this twisted logic it seems as if the blanket is doing the warming,but it’s not, it’s the body, and by extention to the atmosphere it seems as if the “blanket” is causing the Earth to warm up, again it’s not, it’s the Sun that is doing the warming. YES, electromagnetic energy travels in both directions, but there is NO NET transfer of energy/heat from the cooler body to the warmer body.

    Pointman says:
    July 26, 2010 at 11:51 am. Pointman gets it spot on, “The science is toast but since most people don’t understand it anyway, the alarmist just keep their foot on the gas pedal. Stoke up the hysteria and create a consensus”

    Clearly the debate on the science is over, further examination is pointless, anyone who doubts the truth in Pointman’s observations should read and understand the importance of the words of Mike Hulme, founding director of the Tyndall Centre, Professor of Climate Change at the University of East Anglia.
    “dangerous climate change will NOT emerge from a normal scientific process of truth-seeking…scientists – and politicians – must trade truth for influence”.
    ie. fiddle the data then lie like a beggar.

    And this:

    “We will continue to create and tell new stories about climate change and mobilise these stories in support of our projects”
    Surely, that says it all.

    Anyway enough for now, Daughter 11, is off school on holls and wants to go over 100 again, so it’s a nice day, little or no wind and we’re off to a straight out of Edinburgh known as the “Lang Whang” (A 70) much to the underbreath mutterings of Mrs Dave when informed of this proposed adventure 😦

    “Let’s make some noise and frighten bunny rabbits” says daughter, “going fast on bikes is not suitable behaviour for young ladies” says mum,
    “I’ll suffer for this later” says I. (I think she wants me to keep the ladder and sell the bike);-(

  189. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    “The News is We Will Regret Messing with Mother Nature”

    “The best thing about improvements in healthcare is that all the climate-change deniers are now going to live long enough to see how wrong they were.”

    From the NYT as reported in the Sydney Morning Herald. Comments vary from rabid alarmists to realists, but there is rarely a report published with an opposing point of view.

  190. manonthemoor says:

    Why am I not surprised at this?

    The problems will be even more acute with all electric cars.

    Batteries, Charging points, Cost of Charging, Time to Charge and Accident Insurance.

    The utter madness of fools — Just like windmills and sun panels

  191. Pointman says:

    The new journalism

    “On these fronts, the conservatives serve as the stick-it-to-the-man brigades, while liberals are (sic) like gatekeepers.
    Nowhere is this more true than in the temples of journalism, where the high priests are barricading the doors with pews and candelabras to fend off the barbarians.”,0,7547044.column

    An interesting piece on the true political landscape of journalism today. I wish journalists went back to the two golden rules that served them well for so long; never believe a word the ‘establishment’ is telling you and when someone ‘hands’ you a story, ask yourself what axe they’re grinding before using it. Cynical perhaps but the basis of honest journalism.


  192. manonthemoor says:

    Posted by suffolkboy on Booker

    As far as I can read the situation, before we invented the IPCC we believed, substantially correctly, that the dominant factors that set the broad parameters of the Earth’s climate were: the power output of the sun, the distance of the Earth from the Sun, the fact that we were living at 1000 millibars at the bottom of a sea of nitrogen and oxygen. This had the effect that H20 was predominantly liquid in the oceans, with some ice at the poles and a little water vapour in the atmosphere and traces of carbon dioxide, some of which is in the air and most is in the ocean: ideal conditions for life. The oceans constituted the main source of long-term temperature stability, and the jet streams, caused by the Earth’s rotation and the temperature difference between the equator and the poles, stirred things up chaotically but within bounds of time and range.

    On top of this were temporarily stable features such as ocean streams which influenced the picture locally for milillenia but did not dominate the big or long-term picture. Similarly, even less stable but signficant factors year on year are the Pacific winds and the detailed configuration of the jet streams. Finally, the day to day weather is set by variable meterological factors like instantaneous temperature, humidity, local wind, and nearby surface water temperature. It was all in the school text-books.

    Then the IPCC came along, and invented or marshalled public opinion, government funding, scientific publication editorial policy and school text-books to erect a view of climate dynamics which seems bizarrely fixated on the concentration and infra-red absorptivity of one of the trace gases in the atmosphere and the hypothetical ability of humans to influence this concentration by trading in indulgences and so, by some magic involving free-market trading, influence the long-term climate.

    We let the IPCC fool around for a bit, and then audited them, revealing a massive fraud and an amazingly tenacious adherence to a new religion, resulting in whole governments making gross blunders, but the real physical world stubbornly goes on in the same old way.

    Now get real! Which is the more volatile? Public opinion or surface fluids? We’re not going to change the planet in a zillion years; but we can change public opinion and re-align it on reality in less than ten, especially when the lights start going out

  193. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Well folks, we are now described as “conspiracy nutters and right-wing blog monkeys”.

    “The climate change consensus collapsed, eventually, in part because of the so-called Climategate emails which, according to flying wedge of conservative columnists, conspiracy nutters and right-wing blog monkeys, proved there was a vast, evil network of corrupt scientists and bureaucrats milking the ”myth” of climate change to secure funding and power.”

    As one blog monkey to the rest of the troop, goodnight – bedtime.

  194. Pointman says:

    Swan, It’s nice to know us ‘blog monkeys’ had an effect.


  195. orkneylad says:

    Dave,Edinburgh – makes perfect sense to me……’s kinda like this:

    I’ll take ‘conspiracy blog monkey’ over ‘green kirk zombie’ any day of the week.

  196. Pointman says:

    On the journalism front, this guy operates on the two golden rules.

    ‘Silly season for melting ice’


    ps Calder’s blog is always worth leaving a post on too.

  197. manonthemoor says:

    A view of sun panels from the Kunstler blog I quoted earlier

    //Actually, if you saw photovoltaic roof panels on a lot of homes it would be yet another sign of the depravity of our society.

    Photovoltaics are not a viable energy source, all they are are a “rich man’s toy”, and the government gives massive subsidies to wealthy but scientifically illiterate eco-freaks to install one of these environmental monstrosities on their home, and in some states utility ratepayers are forced to provide massive subsidies to the owners of these abominations.

    Photovoltaics may play a role in our energy future. (it will require a). a great deal more reduction in the cost of panels b). development of a low-cost storage technique for large quantities of electricity to offset the intermittency of this energy source) The role it plays today, however, is that it allows half-wit politicians to engage in a massive waste of capital for a form of “green energy” that is essentially useless at the present time.

    In other words, rooftop photovoltaic panels are another massive misallocation of resources just like suburbia is.

    Your name suggests you are a critic of suburbia, I suggest then that you wake up and smell the stench of rooftop panels rather than drink the kool-aid.

    (I should make it clear that it is photovoltaics in particular that I am blasting, rooftop panels for the solar heating of water are much more defensible.)///

    Seems this guy has got the message even in sunny USA, goes with German and UK experience. Who believes politicians and greens any more about AGW renewables?

  198. Edward. says:


    Good day to you sir!

    When one investigates the energy (580C+ thats a lot of heat energy!) required to produce the polysilicon needed for photovoltaic cells, they then need to be imported from China, there is no net benefit to the globe, only to the manufacturers and installers……….and then…………………….. feed in tariffs is a joke.

    Solar panels will be subsidised by the poorest and people unable to erect solar panels either through geography or unsuitable domiciles, ie flats.
    Another farce of epic proportions.

    Proud to be a Blog monkey.
    Right wing Conservative till I die.


    A good post my friend, I have spent many happy sojourns/sejours in Paris, it was a beautiful place, the buildings are the same but it has a different feel now, beautiful in the early morn’ yet but only fleetingly so, the nights when I would take the metro to the ‘burbs for cheap food and wine are out of reach, the peripherique is an alien place even to the French.
    The homogenization of Europe continues apace, going to France once was exotic, it was so different and I loved it for that simple fact.
    All of the big European country’s suffer from similar problems, it is not just France but I’m willing to bet, that France becomes the first Islamic (Republic) country in Western Europe, UK not far after, the malaise runs deep, wonder what Charles Martel would think?


    Hiya, Oh artistic one!

    OL, yes you are quite correct in pointing out a few salient facts, I have imbibed your post, got to get back about the sun post yet (grin).
    The reason I posted the link is that Jeff Id at Tav is no fool, any posts of his are worth reading IMHO, it is the meme of religion and how the politicians play up to it that more concerns me.
    AGW is a religious/political football now, science long ago flew out of the window (if there was any in the first place… no there wasn’t) – this is why ‘they’ have returned to the doomsday scenario, predicting perdition and Armageddon for all, they sense that we know (realists/empirical scientists/pragmatic politicians) the games is up, thus it (AGW religion) becomes ever more desperate.
    When will the end game commence or are we already in it, I think we are.


  199. suffolkboy says:

    Oh, hear you all are. Just dropping by. Sorry I’m late; is there any food left? Got delayed by bonkersgate. Have not seen any reports of Huhne’s statement yet. Must dash and get some food, then start preparing next year’s school physics lesson plans.

    suffolkboy, a very warm welcome to LibertyGibbert; feel free to drop by anytime. Another science teacher is just what I need around here! – Oz

  200. manonthemoor says:

    July 28, 2010 at 1:30 am

    Welcome suffolkboy, may you find warmth, comfort and sustenance here after your travels, we try to welcome our guests and encourage them to join the party and have fun.

    So much to read, so many topics, budding authors and even an artist, so many new skills which have flourished here in the land of Oz

    If you have knowledge of physics we are prepared to learn new things, but encourage you to join some of our other activities

    Come back soon when you are fed and rested.

  201. Edward. says:

    “The government should reverse green technology spending cuts and ensure investment is paid for through bonds and loans in a green investment bank.”

    I don’t think Huhne has a real grasp of what is going on in the world, like many who now govern us, he is so out of touch with reality he must be on another planet (and I thought the Nu Lavs were bad), what can we do to rid ourselves of these morons?
    What will it take for them to see things as they really are, or is this an impossible importunity?

    Confused Blog monkey.


  202. Pointman says:

    SuffolkBoy, Welcome to Oz’s.


  203. manonthemoor says:

    Surprise, Surprise another frustrated DISCUS poster

    I repost here :-

    scott_east_anglia says:
    July 27, 2010

    Well, it’s been four hours plus since I posted the text below onto the JD site, and it still hasn’t appeared. It still might, though. Perhaps the idea is to make us give up and go away, so the warmists can ‘win’.

    “We have known since at least the 1950s that the only sources that can provide energy in sufficient quantities to support the western life style are fossil fuels and nuclear fission. So far nothing has changed, although it may, one day.

    The so-called alternative/renewable sources do not contain enough energy that we can extract to matter. That is not to say that individuals cannot make use of renewable resources on a domestic basis, depending upon circumstances. For example, HM has installed a turbine in a waterfall. In the great scheme of national power generation, however, renewable sources of energy are irrelevant, and given that we are now strapped for cash (another political cock-up) they should be dropped.

    This total reliance on energy in large quantities is the West’s Achilles heel.

    The anti-west political groups (primarily on the left) spotted this, and invented an anti-energy Zeitgeist centred on a dishonest exaggeration of the greenhouse effect of carbon dioxide. Nuclear fission was demonised to avoid weakening the global warming stick. The tactic suited the disparate agendas of a large number of different down-with-everything groups, and instead of being at each others’ throats they pulled together in an unprecedented fashion with the assistance of the MSM and especially the BBC. The result was a societal instability. Opposition was largely neutralised. The global warming movement rode high, and became accustomed to treading opposition underfoot. That hubris has now come back to haunt them.

    In reality a neat, plausible and wrong fag-packet calculation that someone made in the 1980s spawned a political nightmare that has been running ever since. Without the cojones to admit that it was wrong, they created an enormous pseudo science juggernaut to keep the funds flowing, while hoping that something would turn up. It hasn’t.

    Their tactic is unraveling fast, since writing alarmist computer programs has failed to cause Armageddon, and better scientific hypotheses have appeared that actually fit the facts on the ground and in the air. In addition, people are wising up and increasingly realise that they have been conned by a political movement intent on extending its power and on helping itself to our money, using a specious pretext.

    Unfortunately, however, this fallacious preoccupation with CO2-based ‘green’ issues has led our politicians to land us in an energy hole. The kindest interpretation of their gross dereliction of duty is that they were so blinded by the prospect of greater power to kick people around, and of carbon taxes flooding into the exchequer, that they ignored reality – hardly unusual for socialists. Huge sums of money have been squandered on an illusion – windy in every sense of the word – and the extent of our politicians’ culpability for their negligence remains to be seen. This negligence also extended to the loss of the nation’s skills to build nuclear power stations.

    Had we built more nuclear power stations we would now have plenty of clean power for all, with no need to try and institute disguised energy rationing that is now becoming increasingly hard to cover up. As it is, we will now need more fossil fuel energy from somewhere to fill the gap while we wait for the new nuclear power stations to become operational. Let us hope there is not going to be a shortage of nuclear fuel as everyone else jumps on the bandwagon. Luckily, we no longer need to worry about carbon dioxide production. That scam is now a busted flush. Pity the trade unions shut down our coal mines – we have enough coal reserves to last for centuries.

    And, of course, the politicos also could not resist the extra excuse to help themselves to more of our money for doctrinaire reasons. The big give-away was their going after private motor vehicles, whose global carbon dioxide emissions are negligible even in the exaggerated IPCC global warming context. Hitting the motorist shows that the AGW agenda is not based on climate change. It is just another grubby money grab as a distraction from their abject failure to run a rational energy policy, and people know it.

  204. Edward. says:


    Good to see ya.
    Read some of your stuff, all good comment, welcome to Aussie land, or Tassiestan – an island near Antarctica (according to MV).


  205. Pointman says:

    Ed, its full name is Free Tassiestan!


  206. Edward. says:

    manonthemoor says:
    July 28, 2010 at 1:56 am

    Wow what a great post!
    Thank you, scott_east_anglia please feel free to post your thoughts here anytime, I’m sure Ozboy would welcome you.
    When a lie/myth is started what follows are bigger and bigger whoppas.
    I am convinced the idea was to shut the coal industry in the UK, AGW a convenient excuse, Chernobyl gave them another, North Sea gas was plentiful ………and so it went and now we are reaping the harvest of slack government policy, brown outs/ sequenced blackouts and even days without power will soon be the norm.


  207. Edward. says:

    Yes pointy, my mistake! LOL!


  208. Well here’s an interesting article about a speech by John Kerry….
    Upping the stakes on what amounts to telling porkies.

  209. orkneylad says:

    Delingpole ‘guest posts’ Roddy Campbell [senior hedge fund manager, RAB Capital plc].
    Air Vent ‘guest posts’ Roddy Campbell.

    Both posts full of utter shite.

    I ask myself, what’s going on?

    [btw, yo can go to RAB Capital’s website but if you want to access any info beyond the holding-page they have a disclaimer to decline/accept…….fishy? Just for the record, I declined to enter so do not not what pies they’ve got fingers in].

  210. orkneylad says:

    re John Kerry:

    ‘The esteemed Senator John Kerry, the tax-dodging senior senator from Massachusetts, was mobbed by reporters who insisted on asking impertinent questions about his new $7,000,000 luxury yacht and why he hasn’t paid the Commonwealth of Massachusetts the pound of flesh he’s so quick to demand of the little people.

    Looking like a cornered rat, he finally turned to his driver and spoke the immortal words he first uttered in Vietnam, “Can you get me out of here, please?”

    The only thing missing was a flesh wound on the ass. And when we say “ass”, we are, of course, referring to the senior senator himself.’

    Can I swear in here Oz? 😉

    ‘Course ya can mate – just not in the Lounge Bar. Stag Bar’s fine, and the Snake Pit if ya really want to drink there; only crown has a better-decorated version than mine – Oz

  211. Locusts says:

    For those people who keep pestering me for a more detailed view of the sights and sounds of Beijing!

    Today, the sun hung like a bright bronze penny in the sky. Through the smog it wasn’t painful to look at in the slightest, and I stared at it for nearly a minute, marvelling at its perfect roundness. I turned right and walked through a gap in a hedge in to what here passes for a park, though I’d consider it more of a downmarket ornamental garden. A paved path snaked here and there along the length of the garden, populated with a mixture of deciduous and coniferous trees, the ground a barethread carpet of drought resistant but decidedly ugly Chinese grasses; with silver barked trees scattered here and there. Less graceful than their slender English counterparts, but graceful enough against a backdrop of high rises, bendy buses, lorries, cars and smog. The coniferous trees were a little hunchbacked, with branches that twisted at confusing angles and hedgehog like bundles of spikey leaves sprouting at various points along their length.

    I wandered along the path, a grizzled Scottie snuffled in the mud to my left, and an effeminate Poodle pranced not to far behind. There were several benches strategically placed under the generous canopy of a large tree. On one of the benches, was an oldish man in scrappy traditional clothes, listening with ill disguised affected interest to the witterings of the much younger girl that sat beside him. On a more secluded bench sat a girl, with a boy perched beside her, his head on her shoulder, and his fingers gently dancing up and down her thigh. She had the expression of someone who was waiting for a bus to arrive on her face. Old women sat in twos, clutching heart shaped bamboo fans in their hands, which they occasionally flapped at their faces in a rather resigned manner. Their conversation, slow and unanimated, was as likely to be about the expected arrival of Godot as anything else.

    Out of the park and further along the road were a bundle of shops all selling longevity clothes for those who have just snuffed it. Upon seeing me walking past, a girl came out of a massage parlour which was illuminated by a garish pink light, as though she were about to invite me in for a foot rub, but almost as soon as she got up, an anxious look crossed over her face, as she must have suddenly realized that she couldn’t speak English, and just as swiftly returned to her stool. Sat on the low wall set against the pavement, in front of the coffin sellers, were many very elderly men and women, with the more energetic ones gently walking up and down the street in a slow yet determined manner.

    A woman, in her early thirties maybe, glided past on an electric bike on her way back home; and behind her, going at a slower pace and wobbling slightly, was a teenage boy riding a heavy iron postman’s bicycle, with a fresh faced girl holding on to his T-shirt sitting behind him, her feet gently swaying and occasionally knocking together as the bike glided across the slightly uneven road. The monotonous song of the crickets hiding in the bushes almost completely drowned out by the rumbling traffic; and the sun, more ochre now and part smothered by rush hour smog, was fading from view.

  212. Edward. says:

    orkneylad says:
    July 28, 2010 at 2:43 am

    Utter shite is about right on further recce.


  213. Locusts says:

    Eek! that should be threadbare not barethread, looks like my mouse has betrayed me!

  214. manonthemoor says:

    July 28, 2010 at 2:53 am

    Locusts You paint a marvelous rich tapestry of life in the locality of Beijing and its peoples, thank you. Long may you continues to describe such pictures for us.

    Thank you

  215. Edward. says:


    The barethread of your narrative is not threadbare but rich in colourful images.


  216. Locusts says:


    I think you wanted to say:
    glad you and Ed enjoyed it!

  217. fenbeagle says:

    Locusts, and Scott co. Motm.
    …..Were else can you get these posts?
    Thank you

    I’ve been giving some thoughts to petrol free cars myself. Hopefully Oz might post the resulting sketches for me.

  218. manonthemoor says:

    July 28, 2010 at 4:37 am

    Fen — We feel honoured that you are able to put our wild ideas into such masterful sketches, I had a vision of your sketches as I wrote my short story in the ‘Random Scribblings’ above. Let me know if you require any clues! LOL

    What ever tablets you are on they must be damn good.

    Please do not stop taking them

    rgds motm

  219. manonthemoor says:

    July 28, 2010 at 4:27 am

    I am tempted to ask why you hang your dirty washing here;

    Do they not have washerterias in Beijing?


  220. Amanda says:

    On the subject of Megrahi (which I know some of you are particularly interested in), permit me to refer you to the always excellent David Pryce-Jones:

    I posted this also on the Tebbit DT thread which Locusts had drawn our attention to.

  221. Locusts says:


    I think I understand what you mean. Parts of every city here, large parts in fact, are what i imagine Victorian England to be like. It’s just a fact of life. I have absolutely no idea how i’ll explain away these places to my children if I raise them here.

  222. ScouseBilly says:

    Amanda, thank you – interesting link. I had no idea of the U.S. (London) Embassy’s involvment but I do agree an appeal might have uncovered unpalatable truths regarding CIA involvement.

  223. Edward. says:

    Amanda says:
    July 28, 2010 at 5:27 am

    Good link, hmm it would seem that nothing is what it seems.
    Lies, lies heaped upon more lies, dunno what to think.
    It’s all gotten a bit niffy, Megrahi can smile though.


  224. Edward. says:

    Another harbinger of gloomy portents.

    It is going pear shaped again and coming to an economy near you.

    Australia with its massive resources is relatively OK, people (China) will still need ore won’t they?????


  225. Amanda says:

    Hi Scousebilly, Ed:

    Yep. I don’t know the truth — I’m just a member of the public, I just hear what they tell us. But any way you slice it, it comes up stinky.

  226. criticalThinker says:


    AvergaeIQ is yours truly.

    I was going to add a snarky reply to Dr Spencer’s post but like you I realised his own reply said it all, and besides I’d only risk getting taken down.

    G’day CriticalThinker; I know you’ve posted a few times already but a warm welcome to LibertyGibbert – Oz

  227. manonthemoor says:

    July 28, 2010 at 6:01 am

    Just read your AEP link.

    We are truly watching history unfold.

    I remain amazed at the parallel between the financial crisis and AGW , both based upon dodgy simulators, and to the benefit of the suits and very much against the interests of Joe Public, particularly where it hurts and in his pocket.

    In the end if one does not get us the other one will!

    As AEP says time to get a bottle and some good music ………..LOL

  228. Edward. says:


    Yes my friend that seems to be the size of it, gold, platinum and silver look good bets.


  229. manonthemoor says:

    July 28, 2010 at 6:40 am

    Ed could always book a round the world trip and get off at China.

    Whats the health care like for pensioners.

    Perhaps we could club together and buy an island somewhere, warm seas, white sand, not too hot and friendly natives. Beats the booze route I feel.

  230. Ed….Australia with its massive resources is relatively OK, people (China) will still need ore won’t they?????

    Not for a while got massive stockpiles at the moment, bought everything while it was cheap.

    The reasons will be slightly different, but general opinion is that the Australian economy is heading towards the same brick wall as yours in UK/US – and this time there won’t be any money left for “bailouts” or “stimulus packages”. One last time: tinned food lasts for years, and is cheaper in bulk – Oz

  231. Edward. says:

    The award for total f**kwittery goes to Bob Ward and Rupert Murdoch (isn’t he an Aussie?), this time its big oil again paying us blog monkey sites to pour scorn on that estimable institution whose reputation is as chaste and spotless as virgin snow namely the CRU?
    Errrr what?

    I call it the last throw of a desperate loony, with;

    “the realists in a strong position they have 1 run to score, 11 wickets in hand and 1000 overs to be bowled, game over!”


  232. suffolkboy says:

    What depresses me is that I was supposed to teach AGW (I now do maths only) as part of physics. So what do we find in the syllabus?
    Mark scheme:
    Dodgy diagrams showing “wavelengths” bouncing back of the infraredosphere:
    Extract from UK General Certificate of Education Syllabus:

    • Large scale deforestation in tropical areas, for timber and to
    provide land for agriculture, has:
    − increased the release of carbon dioxide into the atmosphere
    (because of burning and the activities of microorganisms)
    − reduced the rate at which carbon dioxide is removed from the
    atmosphere and ‘locked-up’ for many years as wood.
    • Loss of forest leads to reduction in biodiversity. Some of the
    organisms that are lost may have been of future use.
    • Increases in the numbers of cattle and rice fields have increased
    the amount of methane released into the atmosphere.
    • Carbon dioxide and methane in the atmosphere absorb most of
    the energy radiated by the Earth. Some of this energy is reradiated
    back to the Earth and so keeps the Earth warmer than it
    would otherwise be. Increasing levels of these gases may be
    causing global warming by increasing the ‘greenhouse effect’. An
    increase in the Earth’s temperature of only a few degrees Celsius:
    − may cause quite big changes in the Earth’s climate
    − may cause a rise in sea level.
    • Improving the quality of life without compromising future
    generations is known as sustainable development. Planning is
    needed at local, regional and global levels to manage sustainability.

  233. Scud1 says:

    He he…Nice one Ed!

  234. izen says:

    @ Noidea –
    “If I stand, dressed in heavy greatcoats, beside you dressed in your birthday suit, next to a roaring fire, who will move away first? Me (Mr. two-coats to you) or you the naked hippy stood next to me?
    Who will get closer to the fire before the heat becomes too hot?
    According to melon think it will of course be the Hippy or Moon unit.”

    While you invitation to go naked fire-walking is peculiar, it does not address the thermodynamics of the issue in question.
    And it is more than a little arrogent to impute such ignorance of physics to those you disagree with that they would be unable to see this and would be unable to grasp the consequences of the behavior you suggest.

    Amazingly I now see that there are at least three posters here (critical thinker and dave edingburgh) who also subscribe to this nonsense and seem to think that something basic in the 2LoT prevents the greenhouse effect.

    The temptation to remain silent, or even lead you on and encourage the promulgation of this false meme is strong… The resulting loss of credibility of the anti-AGW crowd who bought into it would almost be worth it!

    There are some ‘argument’ in controversial areas of science which instantly label the proponent an ignorant fool. In evolution, the ‘argument’ “If we evolved from apes why are there still apes?” is recognised even by most creationists as a bad argument that implicitly assumes such a wrong picture of what evolution is that it damages those that use it.

    I don’t think that it is an accident that some of the few anti-AGW people with a modicum of scientific insight have actively argued AGAINST this ‘No GHG effect’ meme. Spencer and Peilke are the two best known perhaps. It will be interesting to see what Lindzen might have to say on the subject.
    Watts, from WUWT probably doesn’t have the scientific chops to be certain, I bet he sits on the fence, neither refuting or promoting the ‘2LoT stops GHG effect’ meme, just allowing the more fundamentalist of the anti-AGW crowd that post there to express their enthusiasm for it.

    Perhaps if Walt was around he might have something to say about furnaces and insulation….

    It will be interesting to watch this particular meme spread, I can clearly see why it gets adopted by the anti-AGw’s, lots of confirmation bias with a splash of Dunning-Kruger makes it very attractive. But it will also be a clear flag by anyone using it that they have surrendered their critical thinking to pseudo-scientific propaganda.

    No doubt those that get consumed by the ‘2LoT’ meme will accuse anyone who does not share it of having ALSO succumbed to the ‘groupthink’ of basic thermodynamics.
    Oh the irony, it burns….! -grin-

    I don’t really expect to persuade the converted/infected of their error, but It satisfies my own sense of propriety to at least make some effort to encourage better insight into how reality works, so one more link…. (sigh)

    We’ve been joined recently by some more science-grounded folk here at LibertyGibbert; I’ll try to give you all a related thread in a week or thereabouts, so you can all thrash away unimpeded – Oz

  235. memoryvault says:

    SO glad to see you back, izen, you little worm. I was afraid you’d pulled your usual stunt of laying down a gauntlet and then disappearing until you thought the coast was clear. Then coming back and pretending what had been said in the past had “all been dealt with”.

    So I’ve been lurking here since yesterday morning, izen, hitting the refresh button every five minutes or so. I’ve addressed your claims two days ago about “having replied to my call for a Plan B”. It is below. I have been sitting patiently, waiting for you to show your ugly little head again, ready to post.

    Below, once again, is the challenge, izen. Read it carefully, and this time RESPOND to it, or suffer the fate detailed for you at the end, in which I’m sure I will have the cooperation of all the other posters here.


    Written at 39,000 feet, somewhere over the middle of OZ:

    Izen – 4,418 words but no Plan B.

    Izen, I would not have thought it possible but you continue to amaze me. I pasted all of your posts up to the time of my departure, and did a word count. 4036 words. Then I added in your post from the new thread for a grand total of 4,418 words.

    And you know what, izen?

    No Plan B.

    I’ve read through it all three times now izen. There’s no Plan B. What there is, is lots and lots of ridiculous statements like “AGW proven beyond doubt” restated in a hundred different guises, but no Plan B.

    Let us restate the issue izen, so that newbies can understand what this is all about. There is a school of thought that climate goes in regular cycles of warming and cooling. That is the school of thought adhered to by most people here. It is what we refer to as the “skeptic” point of view. And most of us believe that, having had a couple of decades of warming, we are now entering a couple of decades of cooling.

    Then there is a school of thought that the warming of the last two decades is/has been “unprecedented”, and heralds the beginning of an ongoing and catastrophic perpetual rise in global temperatures. That is the “warmist” point of view to which you hold, along with the other cultists.

    For the purpose of this exercise it does not matter which of these points of view is correct, and which isn’t. What IS germane, is that as a result of the efforts of people like you, the following situations exist:

    1 For the better part of twenty years virtually all “western” investment in energy production has been directed towards solar, wind, and other, to date, largely ineffectual means. The end result is that IF we go into a cooling period, there is no excess energy to provide for heating and other needs to keep people alive and stop them freezing to death – amongst other things.
    2 For the last ten years increasing amounts of what used to be the surplus food-producing capacity of the planet has been redirected towards producing bio-fuels. The end result is that IF we go into a cooling cycle, with subsequent northern hemisphere crop failures, there is no longer any excess capacity to feed millions of starving people.
    3 Over the past fifteen years the main Wall Street financial houses, led by Goldman Sachs, have been playing Derivative Monopoly with the world’s financial assets. The end result of this was the so-called “global financial crisis”, which has left most of the western sovereign nations more or less bankrupt. This means, should climate indeed be cyclical in nature, then when the people start dying from cold and hunger, there will be no capital available to finance the kinds of projects that will be needed to address this situation.

    Now izen, the simple task that was set you, was to give us a Plan B solution to the three above issues. You people, the “warmists” are responsible for the policies that led to the political decisions that led us to this point, so what is your Plan B to address the minor issue of a couple of billion people freezing and starving to death over the next decade or so, in the event that you are wrong?

    Now izen, I’m not asking for “refutations” of the issues themselves: not asking for endless quotes from “peer-reviewed” papers proving beyond doubt that deadly CO2 is going to bring about the end of life as we know it; not asking for multitudes of links to endless articles at warmist websites proving once and for all that this, that or the other radiative forces account for the left-handed glockenspiel effect as espoused by Professor Diddlumquick at the CRU; not asking for obscure references to extinct South American tribesmen proving beyond question that cold is good and warm is bad, nor any of the other multitudiness things you have bored us all with for six months.

    No izen, all we want is your Plan B. Let me make it even simpler for you, izen, I will start and end the paragraphs, and all you have to do is fill in the middle. Here we go:

    1 Should the climate indeed turn out to be cyclical, and we do head into a couple of decades of cooling, we could immediately address the current chronic lack of energy generation capacity by (insert Izen/warmist Plan B here). In this way we could raise (say) Great Britain’s electrical energy output by 30% in the ten months available to us, and avoid an ongoing disaster.
    2 Should the climate indeed turn out to be cyclical, and we do head into a couple of decades of cooling, we could immediately address the current large-scale misappropriation of food production to biofuels in less than one growing season, by (insert Izen/warmist Plan B here) and thereby avoid an ongoing disaster.
    3 Should the climate indeed turn out to be cyclical, and we do head into a couple of decades of cooling, we could immediately address the financial bankruptcy of most of the western world’s nations by (insert Izen/warmist Plan B here), thereby making money immediately available to invest in the energy, building and food production necessary to stop a couple of billion people starving and freezing to death over the next decade or so.

    There you go izen. That’s all you have to do. That’s all you’ve been asked to do for six months. A couple of weeks ago you asked for MY Plan B if we skeptics were wrong, and the planet was warming. I gave it to you: energy, energy and more energy. Build power stations: coal, oil, gas, wood if necessary, anything that will generate REAL electricity, rather than the playtoy, pretend kind generated by current technology wind and solar.

    Energy for air conditioning, for refrigeration, for transport – energy, in fact, for much the same reasons we will need energy if, indeed the planet is cooling.

    That’s all you have to do, izen. It’s all you have had to do for six months. Instead we’ve been subjected to literally hundreds of posts and thousands of words, all, in essence, telling us why we’re wrong.

    You said you would post all (or at least most) of your previous correspondence, “proving” how you had previously addressed my request (echoed by others) for a Plan B just in case you were wrong.

    And you posted. God you posted. A total of 4,418 words, on hundreds of different things.

    But you know what izen?

    STILL no Plan B.

    Now put up, or shut up. Put up, or suffer the most ignoble of all fates for someone like you – to in future simply be completely and utterly ignored here – persona non gratis.

    Memory Vault

  236. orkneylad says:

    izen – re: Lindzen

    Monday, May 3, 2010
    Dr. Lindzen’s Newest Paper: 0.7°C temperature change from doubled CO2

    Drs. Lindzen’s & Choi’s new paper has been submitted to the Journal of Geophysical Research. The paper updates and responds to criticisms of their 2009 paper, but arrives at essentially the same conclusions. They find on the basis of empirical satellite observations that the climate sensitivity to a doubling of CO2 levels is a mean of 0.7°C, implying CO2 has negative (not positive as assumed by IPCC models) feedbacks on water vapor, and that all of the IPCC models exaggerate climate sensitivity. This is in close agreement with other peer reviewed papers which have examined empirical satellite and balloon data.

    Click to access Lindzen_Choi_ERBE_JGR_v4.pdf

  237. izen says:

    @ –
    manonthemoor says:
    I repost here :-
    scott_east_anglia says:
    July 27, 2010
    “….In reality a neat, plausible and wrong fag-packet calculation that someone made in the 1980s spawned a political nightmare that has been running ever since. Without the cojones to admit that it was wrong, they created an enormous pseudo science juggernaut to keep the funds flowing, while hoping that something would turn up. It hasn’t.”
    manonthemoor says:
    July 27, 2010 at 10:56 pm
    Posted by suffolkboy on Booker
    “…As far as I can read the situation, before we invented the IPCC we believed, substantially correctly, that the dominant factors that set the broad parameters of the Earth’s climate were: the power output of the sun, the distance of the Earth from the Sun, the fact that we were living at 1000 millibars at the bottom of a sea of nitrogen and oxygen. ….
    Then the IPCC came along, and invented or marshalled public opinion, government funding, scientific publication editorial policy and school text-books to erect a view of climate dynamics which seems bizarrely fixated on the concentration and infra-red absorptivity of one of the trace gases in the atmosphere and the hypothetical ability of humans to influence this concentration by trading in indulgences and so, by some magic involving free-market trading, influence the long-term climate. ”

    Both of these post make a fundamental error in the history of the science.
    The energy absorption within the atmosphere and the thermodynamic implications of that were realised arounf the same time Darwin published ‘The Origin of Species’.
    The GHG effect and the role of CO2 in that were well established by the end of Victorias reign, and the possibility that an increase in CO2 from industrial sources had been proposed before her death.
    It was rejected for over thirty years because;
    1) The measurements of the absorption spectra of CO2 were wrong
    2) The calculation of the effect of a continuous volume of an absorber was difficult without mechanical/electrical aids.
    3) The ocean was assumed to be able to absorb any extra atmospheric CO2 maintaining a very stable level at all timescales.

    As the three main erroneous assumptions/measurements were corrected the idea that fossil fuel was making a geologicaly significant contribution to the environment became mainstream. By the late 1950s at least it was not a matter of any controversy among scientists, the argument was over the magnitude of the effect and other possible influences.

    AGW is not some quickly cobbled-together adjunct on ‘normal’ science that was invented for political reasons during the reign of Mrs Thatcher.
    It has a rather more extensive history, and is considerably more deeply embedded in the science of the last century than that.

    Dismissing AGW as something concocted on a fag packet in a moment of political need, or the invention of the IPCC is not a convincing argument of anything but the posters ignorance.

    A postscript;
    In rereading some of the early posts I made at the DT blog when looking for the replies to memoryvault I realised I have been getting soft.
    I was MUCH more pretentious, pompous, condescending and insulting then….
    Now I appreciate that as a guest of Ozboy rather than a visitor to the DT it behoves one to be polite, but I have tried here to get back some of the ‘edge’… hope it is not TOO much, or let me know if you would like more….-grin-
    One last thing, the avatar picture should work with red/green 3D glasses, but I think it is probably shrunk to small and the colours may need ‘tuning’, if anybody has those type of 3D glasses and can give some feedback of what you can see (if anything!) it would be welcome.

    Izen, I’ve given everyone else free reign to be themselves here (within certain limits that don’t really involve you); that invitation includes you as well. This IS a Libertarian site, after all – Oz 😉

  238. izen says:

    orkneylad says:
    July 28, 2010 at 8:04 am
    izen – re: Lindzen
    Monday, May 3, 2010
    Dr. Lindzen’s Newest Paper: 0.7°C temperature change from doubled CO2

    So he as a (semi)credible scientists does hold that there is back – radiation from CO2.

    Enough to warm the globe by 20% of a ice-age transition just from human fossil fuel burning even if there are no positive feedbacks and any possible feedbacks from the effect are negative.

    So be warned those that think the 2LoT rubbish is credible.
    Lindzen will laugh at you.

  239. Izen please answer MV what is your plan B?

    Mine is fairly simple and involves eating pets and then my neighbours when the lights go out.

  240. orkneylad says:

    izen – ‘semicredible scientist’… have no shame.

    Plan B?

  241. memoryvault says:

    Hi Crown (and anybody else about).

    I’m afraid eating the pets is what it might come to. That only leaves the question of how to stay warm. Do cultists generate much heat when burned?

  242. izen says:

    @- memoryvault

    As should be apparent to anyone with even rudimentary cognitive abilities I don’t accept your basic premise, so the apparent requirement you think I have to answer questions based on egregiously wrong assumptions is a personal delusion of your own making.

    I advocate nuclear power, and have since first posting on this subject extolled the example of France.
    I would oppose any use of agriculture for biofuels that reduced food production.
    I regard the financial creativity that prompted the recent ‘crisis’ as part of an inevitable cycle of such economic systems. There were no warmists, greens or hippies in the 1930s crash….

    I regard your arguments about the climate as obviously wrong, your accusation that it is warmists and only warmists that oppose nuclear power and advocate biofuels as demonstrably false and your ascribing culpability for the financial consequences of debts repackaged as assets to ‘greens’ as clearly delusional.

    By all means keep asking for my ‘plan B’ – perhaps in your mind, and even in some reading here, it might count as a valid and powerful counter to the points I have already made.
    But each time you do, from my own perspective it merely confirms and strengthens my assessment of you as someone too far gone in polarized dogmatism to take seriously as a contributor and that fails to provides anything worthwhile or substantive to discuss.

  243. ScouseBilly says:

    MV, well said.

  244. Ozboy says:


    Yet another wonderful contribution from our resident Picasso, Fenbeagle:

    Simple renewable energy ideas for your car

  245. ScouseBilly says:

    Amanda, re. Locherbie, this is worth watching:

  246. Memoryvault you could render down the fat from a warmist although hard work as they a scrawny buggers because of all the lentils, but you could a least make tallow from them for a fairly basic candle or lamp. Never tried to burn one yet but I’m sure it’s possible.

    As I pay more attention than most people there’s plenty of grub in the countryside, crawdads, squirrels, rabbits, possum (emergencies only), deer, wild onions and kudzu which is edible apparently. Catfish aplenty as well, turtle, geese even crappie (a badly named fish). If things get real bad then it’s a hunting rifle for me and lots of ammo.

  247. memoryvault says:


    It is the absolute pinnacle of moral bankruptcy to, on the one hand, claim you and your fellow cultists are “right”, and it is “good” that governments continue to follow this path of folly, and at the same time try and distance yourself from the consequences of your “rightness”.

    You have no Plan B, because there IS no Plan B. It is too late. I can assemble for you the engineers who can build you a power station – steam, gas or nuclear – in probably less than twelve months. But it’s of no bloody use whatsoever without a generator at the end of it. And with most of the world’s capacity in these things now re-engineered to produce windmills, there is a three to five year waiting list for anything more substantial. Even longer for a steam or gas turbine.

    You “oppose any use of agriculture for biofuels that reduced food production?” You think, currently, there is any OTHER kind, izen? You think it’s possible to grow ANYTHING in the quantities required for mass biofuel production, that DOESN’T take finite resources – land, water, fertiliser – away from food production? What planet are you living on, izen? It certainly isn’t the same one I share with six plus billion other souls.

    You are not aware, izen, of Goldman Sachs being at the root of the entire Derivatives Monopoly Market that has bankrupted the western world’s economies. You didn’t see the articles where they got fined for their “irregularities?

    Or perhaps you missed all the articles about Greenpeace and the WWF being totally in bed with Goldman Sachs? About how a representative of Goldman Sachs sits on all their regional boards? Or how Greenpeace and Goldman Sachs got caught out trying to stitch up millions of acres of the Amazon to use as a “carbon credit” on the markets?

    Or maybe you just didn’t bother reading about how Goldman Sachs, the IPCC, the World Bank, and Greenpeace and the WWF are simply a “revolving door” to each other, constantly exchanging funds and folks? Not to mention peer-reviewed (or not) articles supporting and promoting the AGW folly?

    I cannot speak for others here izen, but as far as I am concerned, you are from now, until you offer the cultists’ solution to the disaster you have been and will be responsible for – that is, a Plan B, then you are and remain a non-person.

    Until I see a Plan B addressing the utter catastrophe you and your ilk are now responsible for izen, you are, to me, invisible.

    You are a non-person, personna non gratis.

  248. izen says:

    crownarmourer says:
    July 28, 2010 at 8:51 am
    “Memoryvault you could render down the fat from a warmist although hard work as they a scrawny buggers because of all the lentils, but you could a least make tallow from them for a fairly basic candle or lamp. Never tried to burn one yet but I’m sure it’s possible”

    Better of feeding us ~2000 calories of lentils and rice and using the ~100W heat output as a means of warming your house.
    Actually the human energy output goes up if the ambient temperature falls, and is higher if naked so you get a built in thermostat!
    Not sure how you would feel about 20 naked greens chained in your basement, but it would work as an undefloor heating system…

    As long as your housed was very well insulated….(don’t tell that to the 2LoT crowd tho!)

  249. izen says:

    @- memoryvault –
    “You are a non-person, personna non gratis.”

    My disappointment is unmeasurable.

  250. ScouseBilly says:

    If your disappointment is unmeasurable, how do you know it’s real?

    Oh, yeah. I forgot….

  251. Amanda says:

    G’day All

    About this ‘Wikileaks’ classified military-documents publication:

    Where are the calls for the leaker and the publisher (if not the same person) to be PROSECUTED? All this talk about the extent to which it endangers American servicemen’s lives, what it says about Pakistan (as if we didn’t know they were snakes in the grass), yadda yadda yadda — but why isn’t this hacker character being led away in handcuffs? This makes Watergate look almost like amateur-time, inconsequential. Where is the outrage? Where is the action? Yo, Republicans: Get busy!

  252. Dave,Edinburgh says:

    IZEN, I admire your resilience, you keep getting knocked down but just bounce back for another go.

    First, it must be clearly understood that the greenhouse effect does not CAUSE warming, it simply slows down cooling. Which in turn keeps temperatures at a level comfortable for humanity to exist.

    If there was no greenhouse effect the temperature of the Earth would be about minus 18C, (Stefan-Boltzmann law) , the greenhouse effect provides (but does not cause) a warming of about 33C thus keeping the temperature around 15C, plus or minus as nature dictates.

    OK, so the atmosphere probably has some effect, no argument there.

    The Climate system has “built in” limiting factors that prevent “runaway” warming caused by theoretical positive feedbacks, doubling of CO2 or any other hypothetical nonsense. See: “Atmospheric Equilibrium” by Dr. Ferenc Miskolczi, (former NASA Langley Research Centre senior research scientist).

    If there were no limiting factors, the oceans would have boiled to steam long ago.

    The Stefan-Boltzmann’s equations used by Post Normal science to explain the so-called Greenhouse effect, have been proven useless by a paper by Hertzberg, Sissons, Schreuder et al.

    Click to access Greenhouse_Effect_on_the_Moon.pdf

    “The guesswork of using the Stefan-Boltzmann equations underpinning the man-made global warming theory was debunked some 40 years ago by NASA’s APOLLO scientists. If NASA had made it known that Stefan-Boltzmann’s numbers were an irrelevant red-herring then the taxpayers of the world would have been spared the $50 billion wasted on global warming research, because it would have removed the only credible scientific basis to support the theory that human emissions of carbon dioxide changed Earth’s climate”.

    Post Normal science is the perfect vehicle for government and mainstream media to make claims that will sell their propaganda. “Terms like “studies show” or “in a scientific study…” give the false impression that there is a valid scientific basis to claims made in the advertisement, when in fact the wording is “sufficiently legal” to prevent accusations of false advertising, but there is in fact no actual justification to a scientific standard.” (Dr N Kalmanovich)

    This is essentially the so called “scientific basis” behind the Man-Made Climate Change theory, based on two wrong assumptions, first, that the increase in atmospheric concentration of CO2 is primarily sourced from CO2 emissions from fossil fuel consumption, and secondly that this increase in CO2 concentration has caused 0.6C of warming in the past hundred years, and will cause “catastrophic” warming if it is not stopped.

    We constantly hear scary nonsense that atmospheric CO2 concentration has increased by ~39% caused by human burning of fossil fuels since the begining of the industrial age.

    What they DON’T tell you is what the 39% increase means in reality.

    CO2 concentration in 1750 equalled ~280 parts per million of the atmosphere, 280 over one million = 0.0280, less than 3/100ths of 1%
    (source IPCC AR4), see:

    Today it stands at 389.74ppmv, ~390 parts per million of the atmosphere, 390 over one million = 0.0390, less than 4/100ths of 1%

    So there you have it, “unequivocal” evidence that the total atmospheric CO2 increase over the last 260 years is the bedwetter’s nightmare increase of One-One-hundredth of 1%, a small proportion of which may well have been anthropogenic, although most of it was natural, as the known contribution from insects alone is at least ten times that of humans, not to mention other natural contributions from volcanic eruptions, rotting vegetation, CO2 outgas from warming oceans etc. (I know the scaremongers say humans are responsible for all of it, but that is clearly nonsense)

    Wikipedia states: “Over 95% of total CO2 emissions are natural” (so only 5% can be Man-Made if that is the case)

    280ppm to 390ppm is an increase on 280ppm of 39.28%
    So if you live in a room sized 3m x 5m x 5m the amount of space in your room occupied by CO2 in 1750 was 0.021m^3 = a sphere with a diameter of 342mm. Today, the sphere would have a diameter of 382mm – a volume increase of 39.28%.
    The %age of CO2 in your room today would be:
    (Volume of 2010 Sphere)/(Volume of room) x 100 = Pi x 382^3/6/1^9/(3 x 5 x 5) x 100 = 0.0390%
    Yes – CO2 has increased by 39.28% [of less than One One hundredth of 1%] As Anzen stated on his DT post, be dazzled by this number if you must – but a thousand % of bugger all is still not a lot more than bugger all.

    The data compiled by Post Normal science shows nothing particularly dramatic over the last few decades, only fluctuations well within the range of normal variability, and absolutely nothing that correlates with human emission of CO2.

    While global SS temperatures this year Jan-June were indeed a few 10ths of a FAHRENHEIT degree warmer, (an amount hardly measureable on the Celsius scale), Since June they have continued to be below last year’s levels eg temperatures at 24th July= 0.31 F COOLER than the same day last year.

    So it looks like the hottest on record nonsense is due for a kick in the conkers as well.

    Never mind trying to promote cooler bodies heating warmer bodies nonsense, just provide ONE piece of evidence that the minute human additions to atmospheric CO2 concentrations are anything other than trivial, then perhaps we might make some progress, rather than keep arguing in a circle.

    Cheers Dave.

  253. Search the Web on says:

    ScouseBilly: I didn’t see in the video anything substantive about why the U. S. administration and/or the UK government would wish to frame Megrahi, if that indeed were really possible. I am much more willing to accept, in the face of Gaddafi’s track record of state-sponsored terrorism, that this was an attack by the hostile non-West on the West. Anything else strikes me as much too convoluted and the burden of proof is much greater for any other assertion. However, there is such dishonesty surrounding the whole affair that we the people will never now find out exactly what did happen and why.

  254. ScouseBilly says:

    Amanda, don’t you think it’s good to get the truth, for once?

  255. Amanda says:

    ScouseBilly: I have just written a paragraph to you about the link and the evidence, and voila, the darn thing has disappeared. Don’t know how. So I’ll just say ‘call me skeptical’. Burden of proof is greater on the more convoluted explanation: does anyone have, other than airy-fairy accusations of sinister intent, an actual motive or important evidence of some sort of US/UK collusion in the actual massacre? I find it much less a stretch to accept that Gaddafi, a tyrant with a long history of sponsoring terrorism, is behind the attack, whoever was actually sent to push the button.

    I should remember to type in Word and not online to avoid this annoying loss…

  256. Amanda says:

    Oh, and the other point, ScouseBilly, since you ask the question, is that there has been so much dishonesty and shell-gaming in the whole Lockerbie affair that we, the people, never will know the exact truth at this point. The Kennedy assassination, despite Woody Allen’s character’s obsessions*, was finally got to the bottom of. I think this may be different.

    *in Annie Hall

  257. ScouseBilly says:

    Amanda, I prefer the Iran/PFLP/Syria angle as much more likely. It was 5 months after the USS Vincennes shot down the Iranian Airbus.

    Still, if you have a spare 2.5 hours, this is much more specific especially regarding the intelligence before the event:

  258. ScouseBilly says:

    Amanda, without a re-trial, no longer possible due to his release, you are probably right.
    Although there is always the possibility of a “deathbed confession” as Tam Dalyell put it.

  259. Edward. says:

    suffolkboy says:
    July 28, 2010 at 7:27 am

    Fascinating stuff suffolkboy, where is your expertise needed – you skills seem to be redundant, perusing these papers.

    Looks (on brief appraisal -I shall read it properly tomorrow) like our old geography papers and/or general studies stuff, where is the chem/biol/physics??

    I do not blame the students, it is not the teachers- well people like your good self anyway (some are in cahoots) – it is ultimately the responsibility of Education Authorities under the aegis of Education secretariat and it’s boss (as was, he was the last of the socialist dupes) – Ballsy – swivel eyed nutter Ballsy, socialist re-engineer par excellence. I do feel strongly for the teachers sometimes, you are not allowed to impart your wisdom and that is the shame of it.

    We are abandoning/betraying a generation of children and filling their heads with bollocks ambiguous, opaque ideas and constructs which are;
    1. Unnecessary padding.
    2. Deny children the real skills that they will need.
    3. Lead them into incorrect reasoning and dissonant conclusions.
    4. Politicising a generation which are under-prepared, by what is basically propaganda and at best, at best! – dodgy science and at worst, outright lies.

    An awful tale which could be construed as abuse of power and shameful manipulation of young minds for political purposes, just like they used to in the USSR (probably restarted by comrade Putin – the Nashi) and still do in China.
    We are most definitely not a free country anybody who thinks we are is deluded, or a socialist/marxist/EU apparatchik – same difference.

    In conversation with some of my younger relations, I have been cut off in mid sentence for saying that, “IMO – I doubt AGW” (mind you I don’t/am not allowed to enunciate my true feelings of complete rejection of the splurge of AGW) it is a depressing reaction.
    Galileo had the same problems.(grin)


  260. Amanda says:

    To those that might have looked at my Ladybird vid: as a talking head I certainly could use some improvement. Looked at the vid again (having uploaded it rather quickly), and made these notes:

    1. Next time, dry your hair.
    2. Do something about that lighting: it looks like a fun-house mirror.
    3. Don’t keep dropping your punchlines: ‘the important idea is … uh (look up to ceiling — ah yes, there’s the word)…’. Don’t breathe before saying the key word; breathe after saying it.
    4. Rehearse and swot up a bit to make things flow better. [I don’t rehearse (that’s obvious) nor script myself (ditto).]
    5. There’s a difference between ‘animated’ and looking like an electric-shock therapy victim. What were all those squints and winks about? Was I trying to show my audience how supple my face is? [Don’t bother to make me a puppet on Spitting Image — I’ll just turn up as myself.]

    So that’s my assessment. And I haven’t even touched the content!

  261. izen says:

    @ memoryvault –
    “…Or perhaps you missed all the articles about Greenpeace and the WWF being totally in bed with Goldman Sachs? About how a representative of Goldman Sachs sits on all their regional boards? …
    Or maybe you just didn’t bother reading about how Goldman Sachs, the IPCC, the World Bank, and Greenpeace and the WWF are simply a “revolving door” to each other, constantly exchanging funds and folks? ”

    So ‘representatives’ from GS sit on the regional (US?) boards of Greenpeace and the WWF.
    But no reps from those organisations sit on the GS board….

    The GS board from before the recent crash had four directors that did sit on other boards. The twelve companies they were directly involved in were –
    General motors
    Bank One
    KB Home
    Unitedhealth group
    Texas Instruments

    Their fellow directors on these company boards also happen to be on the boards of many of the energy, resource and other banking companies in the US as well as the majority of the US healthcare and food industry.

    Do you really think it credible that when faced with a conflict of interests between a ‘representative’ of GS on the Greenpeace or WWF board, and the interests of a GS director on one of these major companies or the other companies of the fellow board members that GS acted against say 3M or General Motors and favoured the interests of WWF ?

    If so, you level of disconnection from economic realities is even more profound than I had estimated.

  262. Edward. says:

    whoops Oz done it again, sorry, I do apologise.
    I only wanted to strike the word Bollocks and to leave the rest.
    Never mind the sentiment is honest, if a bit vehement.


    Cheerfully stitched up updated – Oz

  263. izen says:

    @ Amanda –
    “About this ‘Wikileaks’ classified military-documents publication:
    Where are the calls for the leaker and the publisher (if not the same person) to be PROSECUTED?”

    The whole point of wikileaks is to ensure that the source cannot be traced.

    Unless you really buy into the ‘endangering our troops’ stuff is wikileaks not a paradigm of Libertarian action?
    The right of the individual to reveal what big government or business does NOT want the individual to know.
    Or do you consider this is an example of where the freedom of the individual must be sacrificed for the collective good?

  264. Amanda says:

    Um, Izen, the documents are classified. They are classified because they are militarily and strategically sensitive. This matters because American soldiers are fighting in the national interest, by definition, whether or not one agrees with the war there or not. I would not endanger American soldiers in the field who, whatever their personal views, are putting their lives on the line for their country’s benefit.

    It is illegal to compromise national security, however understood, by making public classified documents. I believe the law should be upheld. I also think it’s immoral — a crime — treason comes to mind — to sabotage knowingly national security. Whatever the Left thinks.

  265. Amanda says:

    I’ll say again: Libertarianism is NOT antinomianism. It does NOT justify breaking any and every law that you happen to disagree with, or that happens to be inconvenient, or that requires one as a citizen to take another path of action. Libertarianism is not leftism nor is it anarchism, and I suggest you remember that.

  266. memoryvault says:


    And an inability to read what is clearly written shows a disconnection between those two brains you claim to have, even more profound than even I imagined.

    At what point, idiot, did I say a member of the Board of Goldman Sachs sits on the boards of Greenpeace and/or WWF. Here, idiot, I will cut and paste the sentences from my own post:

    “Or perhaps you missed all the articles about Greenpeace and the WWF being totally in bed with Goldman Sachs? About how a REPRESENTATIVE of Goldman Sachs sits on all their regional boards?”

    See the word I’ve changed to capital letters, idiot (capital letters are the BIG ones, idiot)? The word is R-E-P-R-E-S-E-N-T-A-T-I-V-E.

    You are nothing if not consistent, idiot. Not being able to address the issue at all, you simply try and change it to something more amenable to your warped, twisted, un-informed, mass-murdering little mind.

    So, for the last time, F#$%K off idiot.

  267. I see the gay muslim moderator on the DT has woken up. Managed to get away with saying the organization NOW (national organization of Women) or known as nasty old women was staffed by Lesbians.

  268. Well untill now. Bastard the player for the other team is.

  269. ScouseBilly says:

    Sorry, everyone. I did a youtube search of “Izal toilet”.
    Wish I hadn’t.

  270. memoryvault says:


    Your clip is amateurish, long-winded, poorly presented, idiotic and utterly irrelevant to any of the issues being discussed here.

    It therefore suits izen perfectly – thanks.

  271. Pointman says:

    Amanda, beat yourself up as much as you want but at least you’re going to bat. The world is knee deep with people whose excuse always starts with ‘If only I had’. You wanted to talk about the word ‘ladybird’, you did and let the devil take the hindmost.

    No producer, director, screenwriter, editor or actress. You did your thing off the cuff and had the courage to stick it straight up on youtube. Well done to you. No critism from me or anyone else here – We don’t have enough courage for ‘performance art’ but if anyone of the regulars here wants to have a go, I’ll be impressed big time.


  272. Pointman says:

    Izen, you do take some stick around here and I must confess when you drift off the science and I can understand what you’re talking about, I would be one of the people dishing it out yet you hang around. Admirable.


  273. izen says:

    @ – Dave edingburgh –
    “….So it looks like the hottest on record nonsense is due for a kick in the conkers as well.”

    It will may be close, compare this year with the record in 1998 and you will see that things got a lot colder in the second half of 1998 as well. As the anomaly averages for the first 6 months are –
    1998 – 0.642 – – second 6 months 0.393
    2010 – 0.565 – – the second 6 months will have to average less than 0.47

    On past records I’d guess second warmest.
    All anomaly values in degC from the UAH record (Spencer and Christie)

    Quote-“just provide ONE piece of evidence that the minute human additions to atmospheric CO2 concentrations are anything other than trivial, then perhaps we might make some progress, rather than keep arguing in a circle.”

    Measurements of the radiative surface forcing of climate, Evans & Puckrin, 18th Conference on Climate Variability and Change, (2006)

  274. pointman….Well it won’t be me posting on account of me being so handsome an all and my silvery tongue.


  275. izen says:

    @- memoryvault –
    “…..See the word I’ve changed to capital letters, idiot (capital letters are the BIG ones, idiot)? The word is R-E-P-R-E-S-E-N-T-A-T-I-V-E.”

    Yes, I know, but the point I was making was that directors of Goldman-Sachs, that is a D-I-R-E-C-T-O-R might have a little more influence than a mere R-E-P-R-E-S-E-N-T-A-T-I-V-E.
    It is also likely that those with the most money will have more influence with GS than those with little.
    How do you think the daily profits of Kruger and the WWF compare ? who’s interest might GS favour if a conflict between them arose ?

    I seem to be catching your habit of asking rhetorical questions -sorry.
    Though I suggest mine have more cogent answers….

    Quote-“So, for the last time….”

    Well I live in hope….

    “….F#$%K off idiot.”

    Unfortunately I am really bad at taking orders from people for whom I have very little respect.

  276. scud1 says:

    Scud: ‘Oi…Izen. How does yer Dad’s little lean to greenhouse actually work then?’


    To answer that question one must first understand that the obviously cognitively challenged author of this pathetically fundamental quandary may know little or nothing concerning the sixth law of lean to thermodynamics and logarithmic, tangential atmospheric couplings. However, I shall attempt an explanation in layman’s terms but shall first bring to your attention the following link to a peer reviewed paper (2007) by professors Teediom and Kuntz…www.whydoesmydadsleantogetssofuckin’ot?..98/
    Which categorically dismisses / debunks (grin) any other explanation other than the following logic as to why ‘my father’s lean to greenhouse actually works’…(hypothetically speaking, since it is also fact that my father abides on the 3rd floor of a rudimentary apartment block and so by definition has no requirement for the item in question…sigh!)

    We must first consider that our ‘imaginary greenhouse’ is very probably constructed largely from a translucent material. Most ubiquitous of which (in ascending order) are glass (Si02), acrylic (poly(methyl 2-methylpropenoate) or in some cases polycarbonate (4-[2-(4-hydroxyphenyl)propan-2-yl]phenol.) …(primarily incorporated where impacts from falling objects such as conkers may prove problematic to the integrity of the structure.)
    The observed purpose of these materials…as documented by Teediom and Kuntz is to allow the relative ease of transference of energy (in its entire spectral form) radiated from the sun to the interior of our hypothetical ‘lean to’ greenhouse.

    It is at this point that I draw the conclusion that you are attempting to make a somewhat crude analogy between Si02 and C02…well, in terms of effect they are indeed, essentially identical and perhaps this (as said) pathetically fundamental quandary may help you and your fellow contributors to finally wake from your collective slumbers and realise that you are wrong and I’m correct (plan B is a total irrelevance.)

    Therefore to continue, we shall henceforth substitute a solid compound (Si02) with a gaseous compound (C02) but assume this gas to be solid (for those that lack the intelligence to comprehend that natural physical state at room temperature has little bearing on effect.)
    So…energy…from the sun (nobody disputes that this is our source…not even us ‘warmists’…wide grin) strikes our ‘solid’, translucent plate of C02 and passes relatively unhindered into the interior of our hypothetical greenhouse (or…as I suspect you are implying…Earth’s atmosphere).
    Referring to Buttzwipe et al (www. the light / heat energy (the same thing, for all those here that bunked physics classes…grin) is then ‘partially contained’ (ref p6 1:02 of the above peer reviewed paper) by means of a quantum, calcification in the 40 watt infra red range which increases logarithmically to the thickness of our ‘solid’ C02 ‘atmosphere’ (substitute for our plain old pane of glass…remember?)
    So that, my dear friends, is it. That is how my father would grow his cucumber in the dead of winter (if he possessed a lean to greenhouse that is…grin) and is precisely what is occurring to the planet as a whole due to humans adding to the ‘glass’ by the combustion of fossil fuels and if we continue to do so, cucumbers will very soon be cultivated in January without need for any artificial assistance whatsoever.’

    Scud: ‘Blimey, and there I was thinking that all a greenhouse did was prevent the circulation of air.’

    Izen: ‘Pfff.’

  277. Blackswan Tasmania says:


    Most heroic effort.

    At one stage we were asked by the oxygen-thief what was OUR plan B in the event AGW come to pass.

    Personally, I’d chuck out the winter woollies, plant a new vegie garden, slap on plenty of sunscreen and break out the G&T (or was it Singapore Slings they swilled in the tropics?).

    As reality prevails, I’ll order a BIG load of firewood, (glad I kept the wood-heater when we had the heat-pump installed, besides, it’s always nice to burn a big “Saturday night log” – nothing like it), and as the pantry is stuffed full, I’ll start storing cartons of cans under the beds…LOL

    As we have now been described as “blog monkeys”, the oxygen thief has added that we are “infected” as sceptics.

    Infected blog monkeys……..nice, eh?

  278. memoryvault says:


    I tips me hat to ye – a hilarious take on our resident idiot.

    And it made more sense than he usually does.

  279. memoryvault says:

    Hi Blackswan,

    Actually, you know, Infected Blog Monkeys is quite fitting – IBM’s.

    Pointy – we’ve been talking about a name for ourselves in our little crusade – I like IBM’s.

    Has an explosive ring to it.

  280. memoryvault says:


    You could probably even go swimming on February 26 – that’s officially “summer” isn’t it?

  281. Blackswan Tasmania says:


    As this swan is half-dead with ‘flu, I nearly bloody choked to death at your take on the oxygen-thief.

    I tried a couple of your links, my favourite being………….

    but my Internet crashed and I couldn’t get through for some reason.

    Glad you’re back from Tuscany – the more the merrier.

  282. Well it took em a while but they made one change on the DT blogs and that is put the next page at the bottom.

  283. Blackswan Tasmania says:


    As long as they were the through-the-front-door “smart” variety, IBMs is a goody.

    People go swimming here – they just wear wet-suits.

  284. izen says:

    Amanda says:
    July 28, 2010 at 10:29 am
    “I’ll say again: Libertarianism is NOT antinomianism. It does NOT justify breaking any and every law that you happen to disagree with”

    I was not claiming that Libertarianism is a ‘Faith’ that justifies transgressing any legal code.
    But I do find you ‘faith’ in the validity of government laws whatever their justification at odds with the libertarian ideal of the primacy of the individual.

    Will you be so acquiescent with laws involving AGW responses (clean air acts etc…) or as keen for the leakers/hackers of private emails from scientific organsiations to be prosecuted?

    One of the major expose’s that wikileaks has carried out has been of the Australian attempts to censor the web and prevent access to sites on a secret blacklist.
    Ironically one site that was blocked was a site discussing the very issue of what could, should or would be blocked by such an arbitary and secret system….

    Obviously there is some strategic and tactical information during a military conflict that could ‘aid the enemy’.
    But there is also much kept secret about military actions which may be well known to the enemy – they are on the receiving end – but is classified because of its likely effect on public opinion on the ‘home front’.

    If people have forgotten what happened to the Russians when they tried to exclude the talibans predecessors in Afghanistan then there is no chance they will remember the events of 1839.

  285. memoryvault says:


    Yeah – that’s the kind I meant.

    Wetsuits? How many do you have to wear?

  286. Blackswan Tasmania says:


    “only crown has a better-decorated version than mine – Oz”

    Watcha mean? After all the trouble we went to decorating the joint with whaling memorabilia, flensing blades, tripots, scrimshaw and the like, and balls and chains and other convict relics?

    Nah, there’s nothing like the Libertygibbert Bar & Grill, slabs of King Island beef and rounds of cheese (ever tried wasabi cheese? yummm).

    Steady there Amanda……

    Well I was only referring to my Snake Pit – which, due to crown’s blog, I haven’t bothered opening anyway.

    Swanny, this is LibertyGibbert’s FIVE THOUSANDTH comment! Many thanks to all for your wonderful contributions. You’ve made LibertyGibbert everything it’s become – Oz

  287. Blackswan Tasmania says:


    Cut it out.

    I lived in Brisbane for two years, and almost froze to death in the little town of Warwick up on the Downs. Went diving in the Fairy Pools at Noosa and we wore wetsuits.

    Behave yourself.

  288. Blackswan my place is more of a smoking lounge at a gentleman’s club a place for an afternoon brandy and a cigar.
    Oz’s is where the real partying is done in style.

  289. Amanda says:

    Izen: but is classified because of its likely effect on public opinion on the ‘home front’.

    Oh, I see, and I’m going to trust some guy who’s been a government-files hacker sleep-in-the-park backpacker pain-in-the-ass since the age of 18 to make that judgement for me? What is he, do you think, a misunderstood philosopher-king? The purest democrat since Abe Lincoln walked the earth? Don’t make me laugh.

    Am I going to trust the good motives of this guy, or the weasel appeaser Democrats backing him? The hell I will! Let the people’s Congress launch an investigation if they see fit. Let the party in opposition — in this case the Republicans — demand the need-to-know-information. But I’ll be bug-eyed if I’ll let an irresponsible muckraking Leftist defy our Constitution in his perversion of the name of justice!

  290. Yes Blackswan my place is where people take it outside and like gentlemen beat the crud out of each other when they have been behaving badly at ozboys. I need to add that blog.

  291. Blackswan Tasmania says:


    5,000??? Congrats Oz. Your instincts for a viable alternative have certainly been vindicated.

  292. Amanda says:

    Crown: gentleman’s club? What does that make me then, the bunny-eared waitress? LOL

  293. Amanda says:

    Blackswan: They certainly have. I love it here. I even get to put me dukes up once in a blue moon. (Yes, Crown, I said ‘blue moon’, not ‘once in a blue movie’. Look it’s boring when you live in a hotel. I know you’ll be forgiving!)

  294. Amanda says:

    I think I have proved that frogs can get quite stroppy when provoked.

    Pointman: Thank you, my friend.

  295. Amanda says:

    Crown: I’m into the brandy part and I love it when people smoke cigars. Well, men, really. When was the last time you saw a woman smoking a cigar?

    From my song, ‘The Dress’:

    Now when you came to me
    looking flash across the bar
    with your sweet male aroma
    of money and cigar…

  296. memoryvault says:


    I live on Bribie Island south of Noosa in QLD, and I don’t swimming here either – too cold for me!!

    I’m currently working out of Port Hedland way up the top of Western Australia – might actually be tolerable there for swimming in a couple of months.

    Sorry Swanny, but I can’t handle “cold” at all. Sometimes I wish the cultists were right.

  297. amanda and everyone as promised the take it outside blog is ready…

    Good lyrics amanda.

  298. Amanda says:

    Swanny: I have a wetsuit myself. It’s so tiny, I couldn’t fit into it now (had it around age 20). (It was always a struggle to get in and out, and made me sweat when not outdoors.) Pink and blue neoprene with black accents. Yes, it’s fashionable. I have fashionable neoprene multi-coloured gloves to go with it. Used it for whitewater kayaking in Canada. Preferred flatwater kayaking in summer with just a poncho to keep the rain off — water was so warm you didn’t mind getting wet, anyway. Love kayaking, you feel like a duck. Now I’m on the Gulf coast I may get back to it….
    P. S. Won’t get rid of my wetsuit. It’s a memento.
    P. P. S. Most Brits call kayaks ‘canoes’, just as they call moose ‘elks’: it’s what they know, why get finicky with finer points? Even though, to me, calling a kayak a canoe is like calling a rowboat a coracle….

  299. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    I was going to ask how “gentlemens club” fits with our charming and gracious friend Amanda, when she shows she is more than capable of speaking up for herself.

    At least you take the “biffo” outside.

  300. I can’t spell tonight so if you find something keep it to yourself.
    Embarrass me later.

    amanda bunny suits are out, copyrighted by Hugh Heffner, I’m going to have to go for frog suits although how they can be made sexy escapes me. What cute name could be used frog or toad girl just doesn’t have that certain rung.

  301. Amanda says:

    Why thank you, Crown, and I shall be taking up space in your lounge real soon. You ought to charge for the brandy…

  302. or ring even told you my spelling was bad

  303. Amanda says:

    Crown: Froggy? Frogella? Frogerroger? I dunno.

  304. Amanda says:

    ‘that certain rung’ laugh snort.

    Goes to show how on-the-ball I am — didn’t even notice till you mentioned it!

  305. Amanda says:

    Blackswan: I like compliments. How did you guess?

  306. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Don’t go kayaking in Florida, at least not in the Everglades – don’t forget our earlier chats about big scary lizards.

    Speaking of dogs, if you and Mr A are in a hotel, where’s your four-legged friend?

    Kayaking and canoeing are very popular here, there are many on the river and sheltered bays here in Hobart while in the South-west Wilderness areas, (seeing as there are no roads into much of the place) only the young and fit get to see it with their kayaks.

    Oh to be young and fit again.

  307. Amanda says:

    Blackswan: Ya had to mention that kayaking and canoeing are good where you are, didn’t you?

    The dog is with us: it’s a dog-friendly hotel chain, which is why we’re here. Nice big apartment with kitchen and living room and dining area, bathroom and large separate bedroom (almost a waste of space). Actually at the moment she is on the sofa and just fluffed audibly. Not that you need to know!

  308. Amanda says:

    Yes, I remembered what we said about the big scary lizards, even if our gators are ankle-biters compared with your crocs. Think it should be all right in the Intracoastal Waterway, though.

  309. Blackswan Tasmania says:


    Thanks for your earlier “stroll in the park”. Do we really “pester” you. Your colourful verbal paintbrush is always interesting and so far out of the everyday experiences of the rest of us, that they are always interesting.

    I visited Asia in the early ’80s and it wasn’t really my “comfort-zone”. Are you so settled there that you would consider raising a family in Beijing? It just sounds so different.

    Always good to hear from you.

  310. amanda…. Frogerroger may give people the wrong idea but I shall let the guys vote on this one.
    Any votes for?

  311. Blackswan Tasmania says:


    I Gargled to find out what an “Intracoastal Waterway” was – most impressive.

    If it’s anything like the canal system on our Queensland Gold Coast, it’ll be full of bull-sharks….LOL A Navy diver in Sydney Harbour recently lost a hand and a foot to a cruising bull-shark – make sure you stay in the boat!!!

    Seems I’m destined to spoil your fun.

    It’s nice that ALL the members of your family are made welcome in that hotel. Never tried one when we had dogs. Usually put them in boarding kennels and always regretted it.

  312. Blackswan your just trying to make sure no one visits your beautiful country so you can it a secret. Have you pointed out the dangers of toilet seats yet?

  313. Amanda says:

    Blackswan: Yes, you do seem to bring danger with you wherever you go. Are you a terrifically hunky Indiana Jones/Crocodile Dundee sort? Gosh I hope so. World could use more of ’em. Anyway I think you Tassie/Aussie guys are hunky almost by definition. Did you ever drive miles to have a latte in a cafe with a Wi-fi connection or else you’d have a conniption? No, didn’t think so.

    Ch*mmy is our child, really. We treat her as one would a toddler (except that she’s more capable and behaves beautifully when left alone). But she is mostly in our company and she has never spent a night apart from us, one or the other or both. People comment on how calm she is: well, she’s very secure, we know where she is at all times. To board her would be to send her to prison, as far as she’s concerned. I thought we would kennel her for vacations (before we got her) and also I had a rule about no dogs on the bed. Well you know what happened to both those ideas. Mind you, it’s a sacrifice: looking for rental homes has been hampered because most people in Florida won’t rent nice ones to people with dogs. They say ‘Boxer — digs’, even though she does nothing of the kind. Or ‘Boxer — destroys furniture’, even though she has never destroyed anything (she’s never that lonely or bored!) and anyway the furniture will be ours. Hard to get round the irrational dislike of dogs. I’m just glad this hotel chain (Marriott Residence Inn) allows them.

  314. Blackswan Tasmania says:


    Well, sort of…..

    Did you see the redback spider eating a snake on the Blackswan Facebook site?

    Back in the days when we had outdoor “dunnies” it was a common problem, immortalised in……….

    We’re much more civilized today, indoor plumbing and all…….

  315. Amanda says:

    In fact, Swanny, if I were going to create a romantic action hero, I can’t think of any name better than Blackswan Tasmania. The comic-makers could go wild!

    The spider eating the snake… I’m reasonably fond of spiders overall, and appreciate snakes most at a distance — but that sounds a bit much all the same.

  316. Amanda says:

    No, no one has bopped me on the head with cosmic mallet yet.

  317. Pointman says:

    Amanda July 28, 2010 at 12:41 pm

    Dear God woman, the image of you squeezing into a wetsuit has torpoedoed any idea I had of retiring to my bed. Have you no consideration?


  318. Amanda says:

    Pointman: Yes, well, ahem, I did buy it a long time ago and… that was before I learned to bake properly. Did I mention that I’m on a diet? It’s not working out too well at the moment. With eating I have almost no discipline whatsoever. It’s exercise or Fat Farm here we come.

    P. S. Where are you going to retire to then — the grass outside? Where in the world are you, anyway? You probably mentioned some time but I’ve lost track. Are you an Aussie like the others except Crownarmourer? And Walt, who’s gone walkies?

  319. Blackswan Tasmania says:


    You really have the wrong end of the stick. I’m more chunky than hunky and the only thing I have in common with Indiana Jones is his hat…lol

    As for Mick Dundee, I think he was apprentice to The Ranger, who adopted that lifestyle when Mick was wearing three-cornered pants (diapers to

    He was a WWII vet who fought the Japanese in New Guinea and Borneo and came home the sort of man for whom domesticity was never going to be a comfortable fit.

    Interesting man, interesting life – certainly not the sort I’ve led.

    As for well-behaved doggy family members, says a lot about their “pack-leaders”. Abandoning dogs (or kids) to feel isolated, bored and lonely can only lead to a lot of destructive behaviour. Good luck finding an enlightened landlord.

  320. Amanda says:

    Crown, that link (peanut butter jelly) is totally ridiculous. I love it. The American capacity for silliness is part of what makes them fully human. Needless to say, as Brits by birth we can participate without hesitation!

  321. Amanda says:

    Blackswan: Mention of the Japanese makes me go serious. Worked with a chap in Chicago whose father was imprisoned (and tortured) by them for a handful of years… A famous island where war was waged, I can’t remember which one. He survived by eating anything that moved and also one brave Japanese guard came one day and put a raw egg in his mouth, when he was dying. Anyway he lived, broken of course, but an old guy still alive when last I heard.

    I’m glad you’re you and not the Ranger. So much pain that you’ve avoided.

    As for ‘chunky not hunky’: maybe so, but women have different frames of reference, and I’m tempted to say ‘I’ll be the judge of that’!

  322. Amanda says:

    Crown: I love dogs!

  323. Amanda says:

    Crown: I love Boxers especially.

    I note the pizza slice at the end. Perfect! If we say ‘pizza’ to Ch*mmy, she goes on a vigil by the window until the pizza guy comes… and then waits to get her share (it’s a family event).

  324. amanda pointman is evasive but you have to read lines of descent to find out where whenever I get the chance.
    Everyone else liked it so maybe he should take up writing a budding author in the making.
    He’s not from my planet though otherwise he would have three nurgles.

  325. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    I took Oz’s earlier advice and created a Facebook site for Blackswan Tasmania. I put a few pics up there that might be of interest, including the spider, along with views from my “ciggie spot” in back of my house.

    I’ll see if I can get some old photos scanned of my trip with the Ranger.

    Maybe Ch*mmy or Frog could establish a page and become a Facebook “friend”.
    So far Crown, Pointy & Oz have dropped by. Crown has pictures of his “backyard” on his site too and I bet you’d like his big bristly moustache.

    Give it a go.

  326. Amanda says:

    Crown: did you mean to show The King because your links show the same clip.

    It’s half past midnight. The cosmic mallet has just bopped me. G’night.

  327. Dave, Edinburgh says:


    “Climate models predict that the release of greenhouse gases into the atmosphere has altered the radiative energy balance at the earth’s surface by several percent by increasing the greenhouse radiation from the atmosphere”
    “This experimental data should effectively end the argument by skeptics that no experimental evidence exists for the connection between greenhouse gas increases in the atmosphere and global warming”.

    NO IT DOESN’T.The opening three words are enough, “Climate Models predict”.

    Sorry, but a Jan. 2006 presentation at a Conference where anthropogenic warming is required to be shown as driving force behind global warming, does NOT constitute “evidence”, but only demonstrates that if a model/experiment is required to show warming it should come as no surprise if it shows warming.
    Surely the more recent paper by Hertzberg, Sissons, Schreuder et al re. “The Greenhouse Effect on the Moon” is more relevant to the workings of GHGs in relaitionship to the hypothesis of anthropogenic warming?

    Perhaps my mistake was in not using the word “empirical” when I asked for “evidence”.

    Still at least we are away from the Earth heating Sun nonsense.:-)
    Cheers, Dave.

  328. Blackswan I have a little idea what your dad must have gone through but nowhere as much my best friends dad fought in Burma they learned quickly it wasn’t worth it to take prisoners, he used to tell us tales and we were 4 years old. However it would change a man to fight an enemy like that. The aussies aquitted themselves well in that theatre from what I have read.
    amanda we had a man back home was a POW of the Japs it broke him as well, my Granny because of that had undying hatred hatred of the Japs, no problems with the ones born after the war just that particular generation evil bastards for the most part and many guards may have been Korean conscripts.

  329. memoryvault says:

    Hi Amanda,

    This clip is about as close as you’ll ever get to what it’s really like down here in OZ. And yes, the things and places mentioned are real, including the sign. It really does read like that.

    Pity it’s a Scotsman telling the story. But then, half of us are descendants of (mostly unwilling) Irish and Scots immigrants.

    Like Pointman, I am still playing with the mental image of you in a wetsuit. Just don’t tell Mrs MV.

  330. Pointman says:

    Amanda saysJuly 28, 2010 at 2:03 pm

    Madam. I believe you stoop to conquer. Despite your new-found prowess at baking and all its resulting calamities on the dieting front, the image of you wiggling into something skin tight has a certain appeal. When this gets too much for me I simply transpose my imaginary idea of Crown or Luton doing the same.

    As everyone knows, I live in Wallawoora. Timezones come and go but as my mate Ecclesiastes says, Wallys abide. Sleeping on grass has a good side. It smells of things.


  331. Blackswan Tasmania says:


    In my book (pun intended), Pointy is a very successful author – just published in “limited edition” so far.

    Hope Walt (where you been Walt?) helps in finding that Agent – I’d be happy to pay to find out what happened to Krupmeyer.

  332. Blackswan I heard you guys liked his style so he must be good didn’t have the spare time to read it. Walt must be busy or sick hope he’s OK.

  333. Luton looks like Tim Geithner. Everyone has a body double out there.

  334. Memoryvault as a good comedian once joked yes lets punish our criminals by sending them to a place with great beaches, sun and good eats, shush don’t tell anyone.

  335. Blackswan Tasmania says:


    Oz has astutely combined the chapters of Line of Descent into Rare Scribblings.
    Do yourself a favour and make the time – pay attention and I’m sure you’ll learn a thing or two.

  336. Blackswan…will do it’s finding the quiet time.

  337. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    That would be good all round.

  338. Blackswan I wish I could write had some great ideas for scifi stories original stuff but not that great a writer unfortunately I always feel that the characters would be two dimensional and good scifi is always about the relationships never the tech.

  339. Which is why I love Robert Anson Heinlein the plot was good and the people were real.

  340. izen says:

    @-scud –
    “……To answer that question one must first understand that the obviously cognitively challenged author of this pathetically fundamental quandary may know little or nothing concerning the sixth law of lean to thermodynamics and logarithmic,……
    ……Scud: ‘Blimey, and there I was thinking that all a greenhouse did was prevent the circulation of air.’
    Izen: ‘Pfff.’ ”

    VERY good.
    So close and yet………

    Of course I do know that one involves a blocking of convection for its effect, the other the blocking of radiation. Its why I usually put ‘quote’ marks around ‘greenhouse’ when I use the term for the atmospheric effect, or hadn’t you noticed… ?

    I shall of course use you post as a template for my future contributions…..

  341. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    You DO realise you’re talking to someone never saw an episode of Dr Who.

    The only scifi I ever sat through was Avatar.

    Just never “got it”.

  342. izen says:

    @-Dave, Edinburgh says:
    July 28, 2010 at 2:24 pm
    “…NO IT DOESN’T.The opening three words are enough, “Climate Models predict”.
    Perhaps my mistake was in not using the word “empirical” when I asked for “evidence”.

    Perhaps you should have read more than the opening three words.

    This IS empirical evidence from instrumental data taken in the field and then compared with computer models.
    It finds the computer models underestimate the actual, empirical measured effect. –

    “With measurements at high spectral resolution, this increase can be quantitatively attributed to each of several anthropogenic gases. Radiance spectra of the greenhouse radiation from the atmosphere have been measured at ground level from several Canadian sites using FTIR spectroscopy at high resolution. The forcing radiative fluxes from CFC11, CFC12, CCl4, HNO3, O3, N2O, CH4, CO and CO2 have been quantitatively determined over a range of seasons. …. In comparison, an ensemble summary of our measurements indicates that an energy flux imbalance of 3.5 W/m2 has been created by anthropogenic emissions of greenhouse gases since 1850.”

  343. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    This gem from Andrew Bolt, detailing many examples of Green Waste………

    “think of Victoria’s desalination plant, sold as the green alternative to a dam, yet costing taxpayers not the first-advertised $3.1 billion but since-admitted $5.7 billion – four times the price of a dam for just a third of the water”.

    “Even accepting the Government’s own rubbery figures (and its warming alarmism), this means Gillard will spend $400 on each tonne of CO2 saved.
    Does this make any sense at all, when we can remove that same tonne of CO2 by planting trees for a mere $10? Or remove countless tonnes for just $40 a pop by switching to nuclear?”

    A true “Bolt from the blue”, delivered with unerring accuracy from Andrew’s crossbow. Well done.

  344. Blackswan… good scifi is like a soap it’s about the people even the alien ones.

  345. Ozboy says:

    G’day all,

    Memoryvault sent a nice picture which I’ve added at the top of the page.

  346. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Anyone dragged that swamp for stray bicycles lately?

    Terrific pic, thanks MV. Looks like “freshwater” crocs, is that’s what’s in the Pilbara?

  347. Try this one for similar if your bored…

  348. Edward. says:

    Thank you, perfect job may have to run my posts by you first- so you can correctly HTML format for me (grins).

    Swanny, If sometime (can’t for the life of me think why) you fancy some comedy sci fi, dip into Albert Gore’s AIT, rip roaring stuff.

    Mornin’ and Behave yourself!

    I’ve still got me stitches in, so don’t do any more of those silly posts!

    Izal – Like talking to a recalcitrant child, Goldman Sachs heavily involved in Green magic or hocus pocus, ask anybody at the Chicago Carbon Exchange, they (GSs) stand to make billions if Obarmy’s cap’n’trade laws are passed – looking a bit sick at the moment but never underestimate Obarmy.

    Climate models predict………..that’s where the whole edifice crumbles into the sand whence it came, even post normals can’t resurrect AGW can they but that doesn’t stop em trying.

    “Eureka!!! – What’s needed is a new super computer in Met office/Exeter!”
    But………..”hell Wassup?”
    -“it uses more juice than a small town!”…………..can’t the Hadley Centre see the irony here?
    Climate will never be modelled, too many local factors and besides regressed climate models cannot reproduce/simulate recent weather. It is all smoke and mirrors to gull a credulous populace.


    If this leak costs one life, that person should be accountable.

    I hate the Afghan adventure but our lads and many other allies are there, this is my problem…….I must support our troops (dear God and I do) but wish they were coming home, this is an unwinnable war, we should (Britain) have kept our eye on Pakistan.
    The early Afghan conflict was easily won by the allies, the mistake was made when ‘they’ (Bush and Bliar) took their eyes off the ball and went for more regime change in Iraq, the Talib came back and the insurgency began in earnest.
    If they had understood, Afghanistan is just a plain between the Hindu Kush and Iran and it never has had a stable governance of any form and that even one of the greatest generals who ever lived had a bit of trouble here when he marched his Macedonians here, we should have got in (as we did so successfully) and retreated with reputations enhanced but prevaricating idiot politicians once again muddied and then poisoned the water of the Afghan plains.


  349. ozboy… hopr you choose wisely…

    And what, pray, is wrong with Heavenly Hiranii Tiger Lily Ozboy???

  350. memoryvault says:


    Thanks for the link to the Telegraph article. Good read, especially this bit at the end:

    John Sauven, of Greenpeace, said the plan was “worthless” without details on funding. “If we keep kicking our heels instead of building a clean energy economy, we’ll miss our climate change targets and lose the economic advantage that would result from being a world leader in green technology,” he said.

    Down here in OZ we always get a Greenpeace spokesperson trotting out the same “become a world leader in green technology” line every time something comes up regarding AGW. I’ve read the same thing emanating from Greenpeace spokespersons in the USA, Canada and New Zealand. I’ve got a sneaky feeling other readers could add other countries to the list.

    One has to wonder how many “world leaders” Greenpeace thinks there can be in any one particular field.

  351. suffolkboy says:

    Is “since records began the new one in four?

    I notice that many articles in the MSN media contain reports like “According to Irwin Schmuck at the National Institute for Pollen and Invasive Molecular Species, this is the *****est month ending in ‘ber’ since records began. Over now to our Sky reporter, Linda Stoat in the street outside the IPIMS for an update…. etc”. It is always “since records began”. Now I’ve been here before. In a different setting over the last ten years, I keep meeting bulletins like “One in four [insert victim class of choice] has been the vicitim of [insert fashionable inter-personal crime] at some time in their lives.” Crucially, it is always “one in four”, and the precise parameters in square brackets are adjusted in such a way, notably vagueness, that, if it came to a courtroom battle requiring expert witnesses to substantiate the claim, there would be sufficient leeway in meaning to create ample fodder for lawyers to create an argument and hence income. It is as though some psychologist, asked by a pressure group for advice on sound-bites, says “If you say 1 in N, it sounds likely if N is less than 10; otherwise people ignore it. Research has shown that N=4 achieves the optimum result in filling your coffers for your victimhood charity, while not appearing to be totally paranoid or fraudulent when interviewed on a chat show or courtroom.”

    I suspect that “since records began” is now has a similar role to “one in four” as a soundbite that makes people believe that the associated scenario is real, imminent, and likely to affect them.

    So what is happening in the AGW sound-bites to correspond. I have much less data here, but the principle seems to be that what the interview would, if there were time, continue thus:
    “This is the hottest/coldest/windiest/wettest day that our system has printed out since we started running simulations on our new government-funded supercomputer which computes to within one tenth of one degree what the midday temperature in Irkutz would be (and add one degree for luck) if we could be bothered to get out of our offices and find where Irkutz is and install a thermometer there; our predictions are of course validated against historical data collected in nearby Darwin, homogenized, obviously, for UHI effects, gridding anomalies, hemispheric differences, lack of any thermometers during the MWP, and the distortions caused by asymmetrical funding of research.”
    Reporter: “And when did records begin?”
    “Interviewee: last Tuesday”.
    “Reporter: Thank you Irwin, there we have it, the NIPIMS confirms that we have just begun the hottest December since records began. Now back to the studio.”

    Oo, goody, can I put html fragments in this blog or do I risk splatting the whole caboodle with strikeout bold 72pt Comic Sans if I fumble the syntax?

  352. suffolkboy says:

    I have tried putting “one in four” in Google, and then replace “four” with “five” and so on. There seems to be a mathematical decay law on hits, reaching zero at or before “seventeen”. There might be an anomaly at “eleven” caused by football teams.

  353. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Try this on for size folks, and tell me what you think.

    One of the Reptile Rudd’s great innovations, a plank in 2007 election campaign, was a National Broadband Network (NBN) estimated to cost around $4billion, then 7 then blew out after the election to $40 billion.

    They decided to roll out the new fibre-optic NBN in Tasmania with a population of approx 500,000 people, and so they began. However, after many hitches, glitches and “unforeseen difficulties”, only 15% of residents had indicated their interest in subscribing to the new facility.

    Hardly surprising when you consider that ZERO information has been made available as to exactly what this you-beaut, squillion times faster broadband would actually COST the average household.

    On this evening’s TV NEWS, the Communications Minister said that the current copper wire infrastructure of our telephone network will be entirely replaced by fibre optics FOR FREE, and those wishing to sign on to the NBN can then more easily do so.

    So there you go Memoryvault, you and all our other friends and neighbours on the Mainland (or the North Island), will be footing the bill for fibre optics, not to the Node (street junction boxes), but right into every house.

    Gee thanks, fellas.

    Don’t jinx me Swanny: my future plans for LibertyGibbert call for a lot more bandwidth than what I have available at present – Oz 😮

  354. memoryvault says:


    You are absolutely right of course, and “since records began” seems to be the latest and greatest of the psycho-trigger statements.

    As to “one in four (whatever)” in its various themes I reckon for the period early 1980’s to recent, I could list at least ten countries I have read about that had “the fourth largest army in the world”.

    As you point out, vague enough to be inarguable (we all know the ‘big three’, but who comes next?), but sufficiently big enough to be frightening (who would feel threatened by the seventeenth largest army in the world?)

    It’s an interesting concept. I’ll keep a closer eye out for “since records began” and “one in four” or its variants.

  355. Edward. says:


    In Spain, the capital of EU green lunacy it has been reckoned that for every ‘green’ job created, there are more than two lost in the real jobs market.
    We keep hearing these fantastic promises of a ‘green job’ revolution, where are these ‘green’ jobs gonna come from?
    China fashions the wind turbines, photovoltaic cells, France will (in Britain) provide the know how to build nuclear plant (if Huhne) allows it.
    It would take something out of Mao’s cultural revolution ie get people back on the land, to plant enough green wind turbines to ‘provide’ for our energy needs.

    Or is back to the land and cultivation ‘in the time honoured tradition’ ie backbreaking toil, what Huhne and the greenies envisage, it sure is green………back to the plough shares lads and hand sowing, reaping, threshing – very labour intensive and at the same time we can re-open the re-education centres!

    Why that’s it indeed, why didn’t I see it before?

    I think Pol Pot tried it as well.

    New coalition model land army for Britain in the C21.


  356. Edward. says:

    memoryvault says:
    July 28, 2010 at 6:41 pm

    Since records……….. errr……..since we started fixing mending the temp records, says the CRU, one in four agreed.


  357. manonthemoor says:

    Good morning from the UK

    Today’s topic is SCAMS

    Such a small word for a problem that affects so many of us.

    I see a scam as a scheme to obtain money goods or services by manipulation of facts, even fraud, by using the illusion of potential benefit which can never be realised.

    Historical scams such as the South Sea Bubble or the Dutch Tulips are examples but Canal and Railways in their day caused many investors to ‘lose their shirts’.

    These days we have so many new scams:-
    Internet Scams, Investment Scams, Carbon Trading Scams, Banking scams, EU scams, Expenses scams, Bonus scams, Cowboy Builder scams, Tarmac Drive scams, the list just goes on.

    Of course the topical scams are the Financial scams and the AGW scams.

    The players in the AGW scams are as follows

    Political Greens, Monied Greens, Environmental Greens, Ideological Greens and the Stupid Greens.

    I use the term greens opportunists would be a much better word since all these people are looking to their own benefit and expect ‘Joe Public’ to suffer but not in my own back yard.

    Watching on television last night my blood boiled as Chris Huhne and Tim Yeo spouted their ideology to an innocent public with the connivance of the MSM.
    “Carbon reductions of 80% are possible by reducing electricity demand” is perhaps a mis-quote but typical. Just what are these people on as they sit in their plush offices, ride in government cars and live on government expenses..

    In my book 80% reduction impacts could well mean the following:-

    No leisure flying and package holidays.
    No food air miles, thus only food in season.
    No personal cars except for Doctors etc. and of course the chosen ones.
    Electricity controlled by the state by smart meters
    Collapse of the supermarket and food distribution system
    Control and rationing of the water system
    No commuting by car.
    Collapse of Industry with increase in welfare state and control.
    Etc etc.

    Question time.

    Are these things the public really wants to happen?
    Why are the public so blind to this?
    Are schools and universities applying propaganda?
    Will 100% electricity cuts or 100% insulation ever solve these problems?
    Who will decide on the ‘chosen few’?
    Will this madness ever end?

    Finally in an interview with John Hopmeister ex Royal Dutch Shell, just the other day, he stated that in times gone by ALL major oil companies had made investments in alternative energy, attracted by government subsidies etc. Now and in the recent past less than 50% of companies were even interested since even with subsidies alternative energy was never going to be cost effective.

    The oil companies are thus looking at the technical developments for tar sands and similar resources as the only means of meeting future energy commitments, alternative energy is yesterday’s utopia!

    SCAM, SCAM, SCAM will these things never end, will the great unwashed public one day say ENOUGH IS ENOUGH.

    Man on the Moor (ranting again, now I’ll enjoy the overnight posts)

  358. Edward. says:


    This latest piece in Raedwald, an estimable blog sums up the UK windmill drive very succinctly, a rather understated satirical dig.


  359. Blackswan Tasmania says:


    Not jinxing you mate. There are many applications for high-speed broadband which are currently pretty restrictive due to limited capacity (as I understand it), but instead of the costs attached for providing that promised service alone, your costs (and everyone else’s) are going to be so much higher because fibre optics are going into EVERY household to replace the Telstra copper network – who is going to pay for that and out of whose Budget is it coming?

    Conrot oops, Conroy (Communications Minister) said that to install it in every household will make future connection easier. Sure, but someone is going to pay for it. WHO?

  360. Edward. says:



    It is all part of the do as I say, not as I do, the French invented a fine dispatching machine for these types in the eighteenth century – evidently the disease persists the attitude is still around, the cull needs to be recommenced.

    I do wonder how Huhne kept a straight face in the commons yesterday, a remarkable self control…………………….or does he really believe this guff, in which case he requires medical help urgently.


  361. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Now according to ABC TV News, each household is going to have to pay to have fibre optics whether they have broadband or not.

    If two TV channels give conflicting information, what chance have WE got?

    We have a copper network, bought and paid for, we own it, we pay a “rental” fee on every phone bill for its upkeep and maintenance. Now Labor says “we’re ripping it out” and you’ll pay for it whether you like it or not. Liberals say they’ll knock out the NBN altogether.

    These bastards couldn’t run a bloody chook raffle.

  362. Edward. says:


    See how the other half live, these people’s arrogance defies belief, so do their flawed values and integrity, if that is a word which should be used in a sentence describing the execrable.


  363. suffolkboy says:

    In a surprise announcement at Prime Minister’s Question Time, the UK Coalition Leader announced a reshuffle which sees former Energy and Enviroment Minister Chris Huhne moved to the Minister for the Arts as the lead in North Sea Opera’s latest production of Man from La Mancha.

    Chris Huhne fanzine:

    North Sea Aerodymanic Opera 2010-2011 season (plot synopsis):

    HT: Edward.

  364. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    MOTM @ 6.54pm

    Your list of Scams touches about all that digusts me about AGW and its proponents.

    It’s a long list.

  365. suffolkboy says:

    @MOTM, July 28, 2010 at 6:54 pm

    The latest scam on the horizon is Personal Carbon Credits[1]. The idea seems to be to get private individuals to trade in Carbon Credits. Since these currently are almost worthless unless a huge amount of revenue from taxation is raised to back them up, the smart money is getting the gullible to by them, or to give them away to children (presumably in a South Sea presentation box as part of a commemorative nostalgia limited edition of 1000000000000.) That way, suckers currently holding them can at least turn them into some quantity of real cash before they vaporise into totally worthless subatomic particles.
    Perhaps The Captain is already on to this one?


  366. izen says:

    @ -suffolkboy says:
    July 28, 2010 at 6:18 pm
    “Is “since records began the new one in four?”

    Its part of the dumbing down in the media.
    Giving a specific year would require people to subtract the date from the present date, a mathematical exercise to onerous in the view of the media to impose on its audience.
    “Since records began” generally refers to the time when instrumental records of the parameter in question were record with enough consistancy to be of scientific utility. For global temperatures its around the 1880s as at that point there was an empire on which the sun never set with the OCD trait to measure everything in enough detail that it has established a credible baseline for the beging of instrumental records.

    The “One in Four” cliche’ is also the media’s admission that it is unwilling to tax its audience with such complexities as percentages and the (probably accurate) assesment that the majority of its audience are unwilling or unable to engage with any fraction more mathematicaly challenging than one fourth.

    The simplification of the factual content of news in favour of its emotional content is a means of heightening ratings and audience involvement which then increases the advertising worth of the surrounding space/time.

  367. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    suffolkboy says:
    July 28, 2010 at 8:13 pm

    The proposal for us to be allocated a ration of carbon credits to be traded, is as odious to me as having a scanning chip inserted into our necks or having a barcode tattooed onto our foreheads, a modern version of an earlier moral giant who decided to tattoo a ledger entry serial number onto peoples’ forearms.

    What world do these people live in?

    I saw a TV rerun of the BBC’s Cranbrook recently wherein the local village gentry were aghast at the prospect of the railroad coming to their district. One old biddy said that will mean that “the lower classes will be moving about”.

    I am rapidly forming the view that is EXACTLY what these moral cripples, the wealthy elite, want to do.

    We, the great unwashed masses, have become far too “uppity” for their liking and we don’t know our place at all. Time Jack was shoved back in his box and the lid clamped down. We have no useful function other than to work (for the Banksters to repay our debts) and to pay Taxes, with a little brainwashed consumerism for a little extra gravy.

    The days of Jack thinking he is as good as his master are over. Jack (and Jill) have proven their stupidity for allowing this Giant AGW Squid to grow tentacles in the first place.

    According to the Elites we deserve everything they have in mind for us.

    Moral cripples every one of them.

    Exhale, squeeze gently…………

  368. manonthemoor says:

    Just to say it has taken me a full two hours of concentrated and much enjoyable reading to catch up on the overnight (here in the UK ) posts.

    The life of Ozland continues to grow and become ever more diverse, a credit to EVERYONE thank you, you have already made my day.

    Life on Oz has become a life in itself, so many characters (just too many to mention), worthy of a film or a book alone.

    ps those with inquiries about Walt he is on holiday I believe, BUT it will take him another week at least to catch up……… lol

    Note to Oz looking forward the 5000th post, hope it comes soon, what a credit to you and the support you have provided.

  369. Blackswan Tasmania says:


    I was pretty surprised around midday to get this note from Oz on a comment…..

    “Swanny, this is LibertyGibbert’s FIVE THOUSANDTH comment! Many thanks to all for your wonderful contributions. You’ve made LibertyGibbert everything it’s become – Oz”

    The Oz Bar & Grill is certainly a comfy spot to kick your boots off.
    Always good to see you MOTM….

  370. Pingback: …But Some Are More Equal Than Others | Be Responsible – Be Free!

  371. manonthemoor says:

    Blackswan Tasmania
    July 28, 2010 at 9:20 pm

    Thanks for the update Swan

    Time to go for TEN thousand now then ………

  372. Ozboy says:

    G’day all.

    MOTM et al, many thanks for your kind comments. I’m time-slicing right now as I’m sure you can understand, but I’ve put up a new thread here which should speed up page loads.

  373. CastIronWithRustSpots says:

    I found a couple of references to Florida in the comments, but none to the effect that the picture of “Crocodiles” is in fact a picture of “Alligators”. The picture was taken in the Shark Valley section of the Everglades National Park, just on the right, as you pass the entrance booth.

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