…But Some Are More Equal Than Others

Another brief post while I find some time to work on my next long one.

For the average punter, not possessing a science degree can sometimes make the scientific AGW debate seem a bit esoteric: geeks firing gobbledegook-bombs at each other. What I find does hit home, however, is the flagrant hypocrisy surrounding some of AGW’s loudest champions.

We’ve all grown accustomed to reading about how Mr. Al Gore proclaims we must all reduce our electricity consumption, but himself consumes twenty times the national average for a family home in his Tennessee mansion alone (one of a half-dozen or so he owns); how he excuses this behaviour by asserting he buys carbon offsets to cover it all, but is found by an investigative journalist to have purchased these credits from… himself? How he spruiks the impending disaster of a twenty-foot rise in sea level, but spends millions on a luxury waterfront apartment in San Francisco? How he made a career out of flaunting family values, but… well, one could go on mining that vein ad nauseam.

The behaviour of the delegates to last year’s Copenhagen Global Warming summit was another case in point. The city’s relatively small airport tarmac quickly became overrun by the proliferation of private jets, which had to be shunted to nearby Stockholm for the duration of the conference. Blocked in by embarrassingly unfortunate blizzards, many well-heeled summiteers were forced to return home by (gasp) commercial flights. Chauffeured limousine hire was booked solid within a hundred kilometres radius of the Danish capital; meanwhile, the free, low-emission bus service laid on for the conference ran empty, day in and day out.

And now it’s happening again; Edward in the last thread linked to this story concerning Massachusetts senator and former Presidential candidate John Kerry’s luxury $7 million yacht, replete with 10,000 litre diesel fuel tank. No doubt the good senator has purchased carbon credits to offset it. It would be idle to speculate who he purchased them from.

I’m sure you could (and will) give many other examples. And true, it doesn’t speak to the veracity of Global Warming science itself. But to the average person in the street who is the ultimate benefactor of these mountebanks and their lifestyles, the whole thing smells strongly of classical religious hypocrisy, with which we are also all too familiar.

If they don’t follow their own sermons themselves, why should we believe a word of it?

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394 Responses to …But Some Are More Equal Than Others

  1. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Can I beg indulgence by reposting this from previous thread responding to Suffolkboy’s link…….it’s all I have to say really.

    The proposal for us to be allocated a ration of carbon credits to be traded, is as odious to me as having a scanning chip inserted into our necks or having a barcode tattooed onto our foreheads, a modern version of an earlier moral giant who decided to tattoo a ledger entry serial number onto peoples’ forearms.

    What world do these people live in?

    I saw a TV rerun of the BBC’s Cranbrook recently wherein the local village gentry were aghast at the prospect of the railroad coming to their district. One old biddy said that will mean that “the lower classes will be moving about”.

    I am rapidly forming the view that is EXACTLY what these moral cripples, the wealthy elite, want to do.

    We, the great unwashed masses, have become far too “uppity” for their liking and we don’t know our place at all. Time Jack was shoved back in his box and the lid clamped down. We have no useful function other than to work (for the Banksters to repay our debts) and to pay Taxes, with a little brainwashed consumerism for a little extra gravy.

    The days of Jack thinking he is as good as his master are over. Jack (and Jill) have proven their stupidity for allowing this Giant AGW Squid to grow tentacles in the first place.

    According to the Elites we deserve everything they have in mind for us.

    Moral cripples every one of them.

    Exhale, squeeze gently…………

  2. NoIdea says:

    Izen July 28, 2010 at 7:32 am
    from the previous thread “beware of imploding watermelons”

    While you invitation to go naked fire-walking is peculiar, it does not address the thermodynamics of the issue in question.
    And it is more than a little arrogent to impute such ignorance of physics to those you disagree with that they would be unable to see this and would be unable to grasp the consequences of the behavior you suggest.”

    If I am indeed a “strawman”, why does my challenge scare you and not me?
    I would also suggest that your appraisal of me as “a little arrogent”(sic) sounds like a description of cupid.
    May I suggest a better analysis of my feelings towards watermelons would be utterly contemptuous incredulity?
    If I am impudent with my imputative and arrogant attitude, then perhaps you are beginning to comprehend some of the nuances of my missives to you, congratulations.

    Why does my real world experiment suggestion of roasting melons seem peculiar?
    I think you will find it addresses many more of the salient and relevant issues than Dr Roy’s (“I will model roughly after the Earth suspended in the cold of outer space.”) mythical chilly cabinet of no power requirements, and his strange conviction that the earth is a flat plate powered by electricity.
    This experiment is flawed in its conception, no wonder it confuses the simple minded melons. He seems to be suggesting that Vacuums can be heat sinks by using “cooled chamber walls”
    Just to point out some more bleeding obvious gaffs by this so called realist scientist “the vacuum chamber “wall” (outer space) is close to absolute zero in temperature.” Well not according to NASA. Did you follow the link I gave you on space fluff? Also there are NO FREAKING WALLS!!
    “As mentioned above, in the case of the cold depths of outer space surrounding the Earth’s solar-heated surface, ANY infrared absorber that gets between the Earth’s surface and space will cause the surface to warm.”
    Oh yes like clouds do on a sunny day, the pillock then tries to demonstrate AGW with clouds at night, hmm what is missing? THE SUN STUPID!
    I note his attempt to back pedal slightly with “is due to the cooling effects of weather transporting heat from the surface to the upper atmosphere through convective air currents.”

    For someone who is supposed to be a geek who specializes in global temperature monitoring work with satellites, he seems to have some strange ideas about reality.

    This is your main shout you and him both.
    So what is so wrong about my suggestion that I demonstrate my conviction that I can use my water cooled atmosphere of clothing to show empirically that insulation works both ways?

    His ghastly understanding of blankets is another demonstration of his pathetic mind set.
    I am going to have to remove coats from the experiment I fear, the concept of blankets seem overly confusing to you and Dr Roy, how will you cope with coats?
    For the record where this vile wannabe melon tries to elevate his green status with this putrid exhalation of wasted breath
    “Note that the above example involving 2 plates, one hotter than the other, is apparently where the greenhouse effect deniers (sorry, I couldn’t help myself) would claim the “physically impossible” has occurred: The presence of a colder object has caused a warmer object to become even hotter.”
    OK looks like we have to start even further back.
    I have NEVER “denied” that I will get warmer if I wear a coat (unless it is a very cold coat!)…sorry I forget coats are too complicated for your feeble mind to conceptualize.
    I have NEVER “denied” that I will get warmer using a blanket (unless it is a very cold blanket or there are already duvets involved!).
    I have NEVER “denied” that the climate changes.
    I have NEVER “denied” that our atmosphere is providing the mechanisms of heat transfer and insulation that combined with the solar input keep us all warmer or colder.
    I most certainly DO DENY that CO2, manmade or otherwise will ever compete with the atmospheric blanket effect of the rest of the atmosphere especially the dihydrogen monoxide (H2O) content.
    Here is an experiment even you can try izen, you do not even need a friend to assist you (Now it dawns on me why you where so upset with my previous experiment, I had assumed you had at least one friend…)
    When you next lay go down in your sleeping area (I am assuming you DO sleep, but may not have a bed) I want you to try adding layers of “atmospheric” blankets (or rags if you have no blankets), you will notice (IF they are not very cold blankets) that for the first blanket you will notice a big difference (IF the air temperature is colder than you!) in how much warmer you feel. (If you only have duvets these will also suffice) Notice how when you add another blanket it doesn’t double the effect of the first blanket? Add another and another; you will notice that after a few blankets the extra ones do not do much (except start to feel heavy). Now let us introduce the “sheet of CO2”, you can add it on the top of the atmospheric stack of blankets and duvets if you like (you did spend so long trying to convince me that CO2 has antigravity properties, I feel I should let you put the sheet of CO2 only at the top, but it really doesn’t matter at all.) How much warmer does the extra sheet of CO2 make you feel? Now you can move the sheet of CO2 to the bottom of the stack, apart from the initial chill you will feel from cold sheet (what no warming!) the moment it approaches thermal equilibrium it will feel warm again to you, but no warmer than the stack of atmospheric duvets and blankets with or without that 1 sheet of CO2.
    Now let’s add a local sun say a 3 bar electric fire as a nice source of radiated heat, I want you to place the fire at a distance so that you can feel the warmth of the fire at about the same level of warmth we can feel from the sun on a summers day. Now as blankets, duvets, rags and sheets get between you and the heat source, what happens?

    As for you calling for back up from Walt …
    “Perhaps if Walt was around he might have something to say about furnaces and insulation….”
    Yes I am sure Walt would, I am also sure that everything he tells us will make sense. I am utterly convinced that everything Walt says about furnaces and insulation always has made sense and obeyed the laws of thermodynamics. All of them, all of the time.

    The science of doom indeed, they start by designing a strange oven, it looks remarkably similar to the flat earth mysterious vacuum of heat sink crap that Dr Roy was spewing.
    “and we will place it in the vastness of space and assume that the ambient temperature is 0.0K”
    You do have to love scientists that make assumptions based in fantasy to back up their twisted little theories. Is that A.OK?
    Why do these “great minds” all start their “thought experiments” with picturing the earth as something that it isn’t, in circumstances it cannot possibly be?
    I did notice with interest some facts have been exposed, as opposed to being ignored for a change.
    “the spectral intensity of the higher temperature radiation exceeds the value of the lower temperature radiation at every wavelength.” (In other words, IT IS THE SUN that decides.)

    “A quick summary of some basics here – each gas in the atmosphere has properties of absorption and emission of electromagnetic radiation – and each gas is different. These are properties which have been thoroughly studied in the lab, and in the atmosphere. When a photon interacts with a gas molecule it will be absorbed only if the amount of energy in the photon is a specific amount – the right quantum of energy to change the state of that molecule – to make it vibrate or rotate, or a combination of these.”

    PLEASE NOTE! They state EACH gas in the atmosphere, not just CO2!

    “The only other important point to make is that if a gas can absorb at that wavelength, it can also emit at that wavelength – and conversely if a gas can’t absorb at a particular wavelength, it can’t emit at that wavelength.”

    This seems to suggest that CO2 cannot emit at a wavelength that could be absorbed by anything other than CO2, makes you wonder what the fuss is about, if it is only 0.04% of the atmosphere that is affected and it cannot affect any other gasses only the rest of the 0.04%… surely not?

    Why do they ignore ULR and concentrate only on the one side and DLR?

    Why can I find myself in agreement with only half of what they say?

    “Why does the atmosphere radiate? Because it is heated up via convection from the surface, solar radiation and surface radiation. The atmosphere radiates according to its temperature, in accordance with Planck’s law and at wavelengths where gas molecules are able to radiate.”

    All that is fine, everything with a temperature above absolute zero radiates, not just the atmosphere, and MOST certainly not just small selected parts of it (CO2)
    They so nearly get it right in places.

    “There isn’t any serious theory that the atmosphere doesn’t emit radiation. If the atmosphere is above absolute zero and contains gases that can absorb and emit longwave radiation (like water vapor and CO2) then it must radiate.”

    Do you have any more useful links like that wonderful one to Clifford?
    A quote from the man.

    “And no one man’s belief is in any case a private matter which concerns himself alone. Our lives are guided by that general conception of the course of things which has been created by society for social purposes. Our words, our phrases, our forms and processes and modes of thought, are common property, fashioned and perfected from age to age; an heirloom which every succeeding generation inherits as a precious deposit and a sacred trust to be handed on to the next one, not unchanged but enlarged and purified, with some clear marks of its proper handiwork. Into this, for good or ill, is woven every belief of every man who has speech of his fellows. An awful privilege, and an awful responsibility, that we should help to create the world in which posterity will live.”

    I take great delight in being an ignorant fool. I am that ignorant I have no issue with pointing at the obviously ridiculous and flawed and calling at the top of my voice
    “The Emperor has no clothes!”

    No doubt those that get consumed by the flames will accuse anyone who does not share their burns of witchcraft.
    When a simple grasp of basic thermodynamics is perceived of as having ALSO succumbed to the ‘groupthink’ of denial, I fear for us all.
    Oh the flames they burnt me not…! My soggy coats protected me…!

    I will be back
    Sometime after
    To the sounds
    Of burning laughter

    Please not that was an ode not a spell…

    I really do expect to persuade the perverted/insane of their error, but then I have facts and the laws of physics to rely on. But then I am not trying to massage my sense of propriety, I am at the least making the effort to encourage practical experimentation in reality, not in some impossible thought experiment in the lab of mythical devices.
    Can you try these experiments and still believe in whatever the “current” theory of AGW is supposed to state?


  3. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    NoIdea says:
    July 28, 2010 at 9:45 pm

    Great Job……a definitive rebuttal.

    Now if only the oxygen thief would disappear up his own fundamental orifice, we’d be free of his cankerous presence.

  4. manonthemoor says:

    Thank you Oz

    The suits in all their various,and nefarious forms definitely have plan to be above us, and claim it seems a divine right.

    Unfortunately our politicians (mainly ignoring their electorate), and the MSM (based upon warped reasoning) claim to know what is best for us.

    The power of the internet, OUR POWER, allows is to see the same scams/objectives being pursued across the globe, the UK, The USA, Australia and New Zealand in particular.

    This cannot be by accident, and could be regarded in other contexts as global terrorism, a concerted effort to destroy OUR world, to satisfy an illogical ideal.

    We must therefore continue to fight for our rights, and hopefully as the Wikileaks champion has declared THE TRUTH WILL OUT. (Accepting Amandas reservations)
    ps who will try to shut Wikileaks down now? — post your bets please.

    Finally any visitors who come new to this thread, please peruse the previous threads, there is a wealth of humour and posts not to be missed.

  5. orkneylad says:

    “The illusion of freedom will continue as long as it’s profitable to continue the illusion. At the point where the illusion becomes too expensive to maintain, they will just take down the scenery, they will pull back the curtains, they will move the tables and chairs out of the way and you will see the brick wall at the back of the theater.”
    — FZ

  6. scud1 says:

    Nice post Oz.

    Wouldn’t bother with the first 20 odd minutes of this atypical BBC shite…go to 23 minutes in and listen suitably aghast…

    John Hofmeister, former President of Shell talks to the UK’s state funded, communist propaganda machine…


    NI…You’re good my friend…really good!

  7. amandastarspangled says:

    G’day All.

    Memoryvault: Watched the comedy clip you linked to. Funny, though if I were Billy I’d tone down the Steve Tyler rasping shout a bit. Also, I hope he has done well in his career and can now afford a normal t-shirt. What on earth was he wearing?

  8. amandastarspangled says:

    Blackswan: Do you have a link for the Facebook page? I couldn’t find it. Do I have to sign up/sign in to see it?

  9. manonthemoor says:

    Just had to copy this from the JD blog

    just now
    I’m with you James.

    Behind the AGW huge con is Smart Metering (SM). NuLabour managed to introduce state surveillance on every aspect of our lives outside of the home – the final frontier. Smart meters are a sort of blind CCTV – enabling the state to cross the last threshold and spy inside our individual living spaces – in great detail… monitoring which appliances we are using and when, our sleeping habits, which rooms we are in, when we are not at home etc. Smart meters will enable government control over household appliances – through something the SM industry ominously names “embedded energy management intelligence” – giving the state the power to shut each appliance down or restrict its use in individual households.

    This Orwellian nightmare is being forced into our houses on the back of fraudulent AGW ‘science’ and in anticipation of the severe power shortages we will face once our current nuclear and fossil power generators have been decommissioned and become more dependent upon wind.

    As green activist Chris Goodall gleefully twists it in the Guardian – “suppliers can use smart meters to introduce emergency restrictions on electricity consumption at times of unexpected shortage. If the wind suddenly drops or a nuclear power station fails the smart meter can temporarily ration a household to one or two kilowatts, enough for lights and the TV but not for the vacuum cleaner”. ‘Unexpected shortages’, of course, are not something normally associated with a robust network of nuclear power generators able to meet the needs of the UK… and the REAL shortages will not be at all ‘unexpected’ – they will come – along with targeted smart meter rationing – week in week out, regardless of season or temperature, from the crazed wind power fantasies this mad government is pursuing.

  10. Edward. says:

    Excellent post Oz.

    NoIdea, enjoy your stuff very much, keep ’em coming.


  11. Amanda says:

    Manonthemoor: Thanks for sharing that excellent post. I just had a ‘smart meter’ installed at my house in Texas — not too smart at the moment as the new meter had yet to go into action when I left — and I never considered that it might be used for rationing and thus even social-control purposes. I wonder whether there will be smart meters installed in Al Gore’s several houses, or will he be exempt?

  12. suffolkboy says:

    New Production of Man of La Mancha in pipeline.

    Synopsis of plot

    Cristofa de Hoona, young but rapidly aging and an utter failure in his varied careers as diplomat, author and government minister for the energy and the environment, has been thrown into a dungeon in Westminster to await trial for offences against both the warring sects Hysterices and Rationales, scapegoated by the former and ridiculed by the latter. He is hauled before a joint inquisition, headed jointly by the Duke of Ox and the God Emperor, and a panel of his critics and fellow prisoners (fraudsters and moneylenders) who propose, before pelting him with watermelons, to confiscate his pet projects, one of which is the uncompleted manuscript of an opera called “Il Banco di Dogger (Propositiones incredbiles para producione energissime verde)” Cristofa, seeking to save it, proposes to offer a novel defense in the form of entertainment. The “court” accedes and before their eyes, donning makeup and costume, Cristofa and his faithful Chameleon transform themselves into Don Quixote and Sancho Panza. They proceed to play out the story, planting windmills in the sea, over the next ten years with the participation of the prisoners and the rest of the population as maintenance slaves, Turners of Her Majesty’s Windmills and other characters. However, five years into Act I the stage lights fail and the entertainment is abandoned.

    Casting and additional screenplay: Dirlada

    HT: http://natchezfestivalofmusic.art.officelive.com/MeettheArtists.aspx

  13. manonthemoor says:

    July 29, 2010 at 2:10 am

    You posts are much appreciated here.

    Just to let you know we have lively chat sessions and more at another welcome place feel free to visit and join as well as any other visitors here.


    Any probs signing let us know here


  14. Locusts says:

    Be wary of leaders espousing change

    But as the animals outside gazed at the scene, it seemed to them that some strange thing was happening. What was it that had altered in the faces of the pigs? Clover’s old dim eyes flitted from one face to another. Some of them had five chins, some had four, some had three. But what was it that seemed to be melting and changing?

    …the source of the trouble appeared to be that Napoleon and Mr. Pilkington had each played an ace of spades simultaneously.
    Twelve voices were shouting in anger, and they were all alike. No question, now, what had happened to the faces of the pigs. The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.

  15. orkneylad says:

    Locusts – right on!……lookie here the LibCons are morphing at warp speed as we write:
    5 minutes ago
    Recommended by
    1 person
    Sorry to go off topic, but ATTENTION ALL Delingpolers – STEER CLEAR OF HANNAN’S BLOG.

    “British Government opts in to controversial European Investigation Order” – @hagar

    “”If May announced this YESTERDAY, why didn’t the Telegraph publish it? Is the second Turkey blog by Dan Hannan a distraction?”

    The government did produce a suspiciously high number of controversies yesterday, ones which were all given more media time than the EIO. First, Cameron condemned the EU’s policies toward Turkey and hinted that Turkey should join the EU. Hannan pumped out pro-Turkish sentiments here to distract those of us in the blogosphere, perhaps. Cameron also referred to Gaza as a “prison camp,” thus distracting those of us with a pro-Israeli attitude. Then Vince Cable openly challenged the government’s planned immigration cap, infuriating those of us who had hoped to see at least somewhat of a restriction on mass immigration. Perhaps the government planned all these announcements on one day so as to keep our attention away from the fact that they are signing over to the EU control over the fundamental liberties of British subjects.” @bersher

    Latest quotes from posters on DH’s smoke screen thread about Turkey to cover for Cameron’s latest acquiescence to the Brussels steamroller.

  16. Pointman says:

    The rehabilitation of Prof. ‘HideTheDecline’ Jones begins courtesy of the New Scientist. Who else?



  17. orkneylad someone had to say it.

  18. Amanda says:

    Hey guys, care for a little gossip?

    A couple of months ago somebody posted on Andrew M. Brown’s blog (the Daily Telenaff, of course): ‘Damian — ever considered giving Amanda her own blog? She has interesting things to say about this and that’ (I paraphrase slightly.) Anyway, I’d been thinking along similar lines myself, so I took the bull by the horns and e-mailed Damian T. I pointed to my own posts over the previous months as evidence that I had what it takes. Anyway, he asked me (with what seriousness of purpose, I don’t know) to send a dummy blog article. Which I did. He said it was way too long (though in point of fact it was no longer than several posts that Warner and Delingpole, for example, sometimes do). So I cut it in half and sent again. He hesitated and claimed pressing business. I rattled his cage again about a month later and he said ‘send me another blog about something in the news’. He asked for it to be ‘witty’. I wasn’t sure about ‘witty’: I knew I could do insightful consistently but could make no claims to be the Mark Steyn of the Telegraph blogs. One has to start as one means to go on. Anyway I wanted to be quick because that’s the nature of blogs — you can’t sit around for weeks umming and ahhing — so I found a topic and sent my effort. It obviously went up like a bunch of wet squibs because I never heard from him again.

    Anyway, I think it’s rather good, and as it still belongs to me, I reproduce it here. Blackswan should recognize the raw egg example.

    Foxconn Technology’s ‘Suicide Incentives’

    Is it an ‘incentive’ to commit suicide at work if your employer makes posthumous pay-outs to your family? This is how the news of 13 actual and attempted suicides, in one year, at a Chinese live-and-work compound was reported in the Western media. The idea that one can be ‘incentivised’ to chuck it all in, eternally and for non-existential reasons, is nothing less than bizarre. Can you imagine workers at a Vauxhall car factory jumping off buildings for the sake of a juicy suicide pension-extension? Now, if you think for a moment about living among 400,000 other workers, on one of two ‘campuses’, as they are called, for what amounts to prisoners’ wages, in a Communist regime that cares little for the rights of the individual, it’s hard to believe that life is a bowl of cherries and ambrosia. Never mind ‘fat farms’: if you want to dull your appetite for life, move to a ‘campus’ in China. In those conditions, with no meaningful freedoms and nothing more on the horizon, it would hardly take a $15,000 pay-out to ‘incentivise’ suicide. If these people need ‘incentives’, their dismal lives provide plenty already.

    People around the world differ in a million ways but most of them are life-clingers, with a simple, instinctual will to live. Survivors of POW camps and other atrocious imprisonments have told tales of grasping at anything that seems good or that allows hopefulness: an illicit raw egg brought by a prison guard, a cross drawn in the gravel by a secret Christian, a glance of solidarity from another prisoner. One victim of a Nazi camp even drew comfort from the sight of a cigarette butt, as a sign of life. So the idea that paltry pay-offs can overcome fundamental drives or put them where they don’t exist is absurd.

    If 13 people were desperate enough to take the money and jump, just think how many of their 400,000 colleagues feel nearly as wretched, but hang on to life and limb anyway – and would willingly lose $15,000 if they had it, to keep struggling in the hope that things might get better one day. Foxconn itself accepts this. The company has now ceased the suicide stipend and has more than doubled everyone’s wages. That is a real incentive – one that makes life easier, not death. The fact is that, whether they decide to live or not, people in oppressive regimes are always closer to the brink than we imagine, their lives an endless stream of broken hopes and unspoken agonies. This news story is not just about a baker’s dozen of Chinese who took a short-cut to getting out, it is more fundamentally a window into the lives of the whole 400,000, and countless more millions just like them — a reminder of what it costs in human happiness to live in a workers’ prison camp.

  19. Amanda says:

    Crown, I know the song ‘Knees Up, Mother Brown’, but I don’t get it.

  20. Amanda says:

    By the way, for those bird-lovers among you, my avatar is a Florida scrub jay that I used to feed with walnuts and bread out of my hand. Very rare birds, very specific and endangered habitat, and they’re amazingly intelligent (like all corvids). In the mornings they ‘knocked’ on my door to announce their presence so I would bring them food.

  21. Amanda says:

    I see that I lost a bit of formatting in copying and pasting.

    The sentence should read: ‘one that makes life easier, not death’ (last paragraph).

  22. Locusts says:

    Nice article, though I think it goes a bit against the grain these days.
    I’m sure many people would kill themselves if they could provide their nearest and dearest with $15,000. It is not a trivial sum to many people.

    Life is difficult for them, I remember one rather informal job interview I had, the job role would have involved lots of factory visits. The perks of the factory visits, they told me… well…, If you are a beautiful young Chinese girl, ill educated, with poor job prospects, and you get a job in such a factory, you may end up wishing that you were just that tiny bit less attractive. I asked about etiquette, and found that refusing their hospitality would be even ruder than refusing cigarettes and lashings of rice wine. I didn’t take the job. Am I a man or a mouse?

  23. bjedwards says:

    You don’t have to listen to them at all, Ozboy. Just as we ignore the rantings of “Lord” Monckton, Anthony Watts, and other political charlatans, including Al Gore.

    All you have to do is pay attention to the entire body of scientific research. That takes care of the fact that anthropogenic global warming is real and why the vast majority of climate scientists accept that research.

    After all, science is science and politics doesn’t care what’s right or wrong. That’s why we have so many AGW deniers polluting the atmosphere, no pun intended.

    Wouldn’t you agree?

    BJ – don’t think I’ve seen you here before, so welcome to LibertyGibbert. Contrary voices are most welcome here at LG, as they stimulate debate. Drop by anytime – Oz

  24. manonthemoor says:

    July 29, 2010 at 4:44 am

    Pleas tell us how you reached the conclusion in your first para?

  25. Locusts says:

    What you missed out Amanda, is how often Chinese factory owners refuse to pay their workers. They will hold pay for months on end, while they invest it on the stock market for their own personal gain, or spend it on holidays, cars, mistresses, or whatever.

    Not so long ago, my boss, small fry in a very small company, with in a very short space of time was boasting about how she had spent many thousands of pounds, (several x 10,000 pounds was her phrase), so may have been close to 30 thousand pounds, but at the same time refused to pay some of her part time employees. Those employees slept outside of the office for a couple of days before she finally coughed up the dough. The amount she would have needed to give them was likely to number in the hundreds of pounds at most.

  26. ScouseBilly says:

    Amanda, you are right about “dead peasants” but way ahead of the MSM curve.
    Captain Sherlock talks about it on his radio show, which is on now I think.

  27. Locusts says:

    Welcome bje

    Awfully kind of you to offer to take over from Izen, he was getting a bit tired. There’s over five thousand posts for you to get through, before you’ll be up to speed, a lot I know! Coffee and a couple of Wagon Wheels might be good to have on hand!

  28. amanda as for the song “Knees up mother Brown” I think know what does but no doubt it’s all about hanky panky a lot of songs including “Old MacDonlad had a farm” are.

  29. Let me try again in English that makes sense…amanda as for the song “Knees up mother Brown” I think no one does but no doubt it’s all about hanky panky a lot of songs including “Old MacDonlad had a farm” are.

  30. Locusts says:


    Lets get started on the matter of faith. Faith is a fantastic thing, it allows me to believe that maybe there is life after death, it always me to believe in a loving God. Faith allows me to believe that my forebears were monkeys, and their forebears were were lizards and fish. Faith allows me to believe that my grandfather fought the Germans, and that his father fought them too, it allows me to believe that we once had a king with many wives, who in his spare time composed Greensleeves.

    Faith also allows me to believe that the moon is not made of cheese, that there are things brighter and hotter than the sun on a very hot day. It allows me to believe that the South-East of England is tipping in to the sea, and that the planet is getting hotter and hotter and hotter, even when I’m feeling colder and colder and colder.

    I am ill at the moment, one of the things about being ill, is how easily my senses betray me, and I believe my senses more than anybody elses senses, as they are mine, and mine alone. In order to believe in all of those things that I mentioned above, except for one I am informed, I have to rely on the senses of others. Should I trust what they tell me, should they trust what they tell themselves, and should they trust their own senses?

    Science is a fantastic thing, it allows the slow but sure accumulation of knowledge. I am not a scientist, so must have faith in what he says, as an accurate relayer of the the facts. Unfortunately, he is to me what a priest in medieval England was to a commoner, reading scriptures in Latin, then translating them so that my forebears could have some inkling as to what was contained in the Bible.

    So should I always trust all scientists at all times, if they decide by consensus to lie to me, will I be any the wiser? Probably not. It would be terrible if they had become corrupted by other, outside interests, would it not?

    “People of the same trade seldom meet together, even for merriment and diversion, but the conversation ends in a conspiracy against the public, or in some contrivance to raise prices.” Adam Smith

  31. orkneylad says:

    motm – Repeat a lie often enough……..they think we’re so stupid they haven’t even waited for 2010 to end before selling us the ‘hotest year’ moonshine……beggars belief……we proles matter so little.

    THE WIRE – Other 100 Greatest Quotes

  32. Caridnor says:

    Oh dear folks, you’ve been done for, this is bje’s comment at the DT re this site
    “I took care of that in short order.”
    Condescending idiot – so yes I suppose a reasonable replacement for it Izen’t science.

  33. manonthemoor says:

    July 29, 2010 at 5:23 am

    Welcome we await bje with relish to discuss his afliction

  34. Caridnor says:

    Hi MM,
    He’s busy at Bookers being rude to Doris Seagull, the moderators are doing nothing about it – its all posted on Mack’s site. RR posted a friendly reply earlier to one of my comments – and it was removed! He hasn’t posted since as far as I can see. I really don’t know how he has managed to keep going for so long.

  35. ScouseBilly says:

    MOTM, “his”?

  36. Locusts says:


    First post? If so, welcome!

  37. Caridnor says:

    Hi Locusts,
    No, but it’s not often I have anything to say – but I enjoy being here with all you good folk.

  38. orkneylad says:

    Caridnor – I broke my own self-imposed JD exile to post a link to the anti-windmill org site: http://www.countryguardian.net/ at about 4pm……removed immediately……recorded at macks….insane…….

    “makes me sick how for we done fell” {the Bunk}

  39. Caridnor says:

    Hi Orkneylad,
    Yes I did see this, and bookmarked it, thanks. I did add a little to the windmill debate there, buts it’s long gone from the front page, don’t know why I bothered really.

  40. Edward. says:

    bjedwards says:
    July 29, 2010 at 4:44 am

    “All you have to do is pay attention to the entire body of scientific research. That takes care of the fact that anthropogenic global warming is real and why the vast majority of climate scientists accept that research.”

    ****, another loony oozes from the slime beneath the pond water surface, bottom feeder be damned!
    Where is the body of scientific research that takes care of the fact that AGW is real?
    Answer, there is no such thing, there is no science, no tried trusted and sealed incontrovertible truth in the expostulation of AGW.
    No Proof, No Idea, thank you and now get lost.
    Sell your snake oil elsewhere, we are free thinkers here, we have no truck with readers of the AGW script, if you genuinely have something to say, then say it, if you are one of moanbots trolls then kindly take your leave.

    We do listen to forthright views, even if it is not what we believe, the fencing in the repartee is the thing.
    But making an opening line like the above seems to prove that you are merely a foot soldier or lackey, we are desirous of a colloquium type discussion with equals.


  41. Locusts says:

    The Telegraph blogs are good for nothing but quips and centrist rabble rousing comments.

    Caridnor, no worries, a ringside seat can be more enjoyable than being in the ring itself! Popcorn, anyone?

    OrkneyLad, loved your quote earlier, source?

  42. Locusts says:


    I’ve got my popcorn, and am all ready to listen to the piper’s tune…

  43. orkneylad says:

    …..while the majority are becoming this:

    ….and we no longer have people like this holding a mirror up to it:

    [the interview at the end is worth catching]

    …I become daily more like this:

    …and failing a Sulla, desperate for one of these:

  44. orkneylad says:

    Locusts – the Bunk or FZ? 🙂

  45. manonthemoor says:

    Has anyone else noticed the phantom comments on current JD

    read new comment(s) — move along nothing to see here

    Either pre mods OR a blogger comment wall for some

    Wonder who is on the list?

  46. bjedwards says:

    Locusts wrote,

    “So should I always trust all scientists at all times, if they decide by consensus to lie to me, will I be any the wiser?”

    If you understood the scientific method you might understand why it could not happen, why scientists cannot “decide by consensus to lie.”

    But yours is a claim that conspiracy believers hold onto in their fantasies. I would suggest not making the same mistake.

  47. memoryvault says:

    Morning all,

    I think bjedwards owes us a Plan B.

    What say you all?

  48. bjedwards says:

    Edward wrote, in a rage:

    “Answer, there is no such thing, there is no science, no tried trusted and sealed incontrovertible truth in the expostulation of AGW.”

    I understand your denialism perfectly well. There really is no help for you.

    It is also why there is no help for Lord-in-fantasy-only Monckton nor our Republican Party who invited him to speak on “climate science” in Congress, a subject about which he knows absolutely nothing, but who was touted as a “climate scientist.”. And why there is no hope for those who actually believe Monckton.

    Fortunately, reason will win and you will have to look for something else to do. Perhaps embrace Creationism if you do not already.

  49. manonthemoor says:

    July 29, 2010 at 7:19 am

    The current scientific method is take the money and lie

    They have been found out

  50. bjedwards says:

    Locusts wrote for all to see:

    “There’s over five thousand posts for you to get through, before you’ll be up to speed, a lot I know!”

    Been there, done that – years ago. There’s nothing new, just like with the 9/11 “Truth” Movement, which also imploded.

    But there are thousands of peer-reviewed papers demonstrating the reality of anthropogenic global warming from the last few decades that you pretend don’t exist for you all to refute.

    And, as always, I note with interest that you haven’t even begun. It must be nice to live a life unburdened by reality.

    Climate science deniers: “Minds on vacation, mouths working overtime.”

  51. manonthemoor says:

    July 29, 2010 at 7:25 am

    Plan B it is sir

  52. bjedwards says:

    And who is “they”, manothemoor? Cat got your tongue?

  53. memoryvault says:

    And like our previous resident idiot, he/she/izen-in-drag? should be ignored until it is forthcoming.

  54. manonthemoor says:

    July 29, 2010 at 7:34 am

    PLAN B is all

  55. Caridnor says:

    Hi MOTM,
    Just ask Bje a simple question and see if he can give a straight answer – without descending to his( ?) usual condescending patronising insults. It’s yet to happen at the Booker blog…….

  56. orkneylad says:

    bje – start your de-programming here:

    You are free to do what ‘they’ tell you.

  57. manonthemoor says:

    July 29, 2010 at 7:38 am

    Bored already time for bed MV will deal

  58. memoryvault says:

    G’night MOTM,

    I’ll be around all day so let the little twerp bring it on.

  59. bjedwards what’s the BJ stand for?

  60. memoryvault says:


    Maybe he/she/izen-in-drag hangs around public toilets a lot.

  61. Edward. says:


    You bring nought to the table, why should I or my co-realists dicker with you?
    It is you who have been deceived not us, you have been bedazzled by post normal scientific chicanery and models, not us, we believe in empiricism and pure science, which does require proofs.

    Where is the proof of AGW?
    In the temperature data?…………….err…..no.

    “The trick is to hide the decline”……………….. .

    Not only are climate scientists wrong, they also are fast and loose with the facts.
    Even to the extent of fudging, ‘fixing’ and outright lying about the temperature record, which is as we all know bent (see above) UHI/Data manipulation/removal of stations/selective data sets etc etc.
    Satellite observations of the most recent 30years give no credence, still less show evidence of marked warming.

    Oh yeah I know……models predict…….. .

    Put up or shut up.


  62. Memoryvault…..Well liberal minded people no doubt enjoy a little cottaging from time to time.

  63. I have noticed a ramping up of the AGW counter offensive prepping the ground for Mexico, the hot summer which incidentally I knew was going to happen after a bitterly cold winter, Northern hemisphere only is allowing them to yelp about the hottest year ever. The reason I knew what was going to happen because it happened over 30 years ago as well. The next few years it’s going to be cooler because of the PDO and Icelandic volcanic eruption and a few others in Siberia and Alaska all of these pushed out a lot of SO2 and ash.

  64. memoryvault says:


    I suspect you are right about Mexico – it’s all very much like the lead-up to Dopenhagen. However, I wouldn’t be at all surprised if Mexico falls flat on its face. I can only use OZ as an example, but I think a similar situation exists elsewhere:

    Our pollies, press, and bureaucrats made right royal twits of themselves at Dopeyvagen. I think all up we had a total contingent – including reporters etc – of around 400 or more.

    And absolutely nothing came of it, except a lot of egg on a lot of faces. The reality is, publicity-wise, our pollies can’t really afford to look like such idiots again, so soon. The public simply won’t stand for it.

    And if our pollies can’t justify any but a handful of their own going this time, it will be even harder to justify sending 120+ bureaucrats courtesy of the public purse – like last time.

    And with only a handful of pollies, and even less paper-pushers, I doubt the media will send the 200+ strong army they fielded last time.

    So I think the whole thing has the potential for a major flop. I also have no doubt the pollies see that, which will make them even more reluctant to so eagerly jump on the bandwagon this time.

    Maybe I’m wrong, but I live in hope.

  65. memoryvault says:

    And now for some light-hearted relief – good to see one of our old-timers out and active again.

  66. Pointman says:

    Hi MV, I think you’re right. Mexico will be a lot less hyped up.


  67. memoryvault says:

    Hi Pointman

    Yeah, the UN had an “after Nopenhopen” shindig earlier this year that was supposed be the beginning of “getting back into credibility mode” for these twaddle meetings in general and the IPCC in particular. The media here pushed it like crazy for about a week, but no one was interested. By the time the actual event occurred, it hardly cracked a mention in the MSM.

    At the time there was talk about an “interim meeting” (between Flotentoten and Mexico) about now (July) sponsored by the UN/IPCC. That caused so little interest that either it was canned, or simply didn’t get reported at all.

  68. Pointman says:

    They had a meeting in Bonn attended by functionaries from all sides supposedly to sort out things before Mexico. Nothing at all was decided and the event hardly registered in the MSM.


  69. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    This is from the Sydney Morning Herald……..

    There is no “by-line”, it’s attributed to no-one. It’s lifted straight out of the London DT, also attributed to no-one.

    World is ‘unequivocally’ getting hotter, says study


    “Climate change sceptics have questioned global warming in the wake of the “climategate” scandal. It was claimed that emails stolen from the University of East Anglia show scientists were willing to manipulate the land surface temperatures to show global warming. The scientists were cleared in an independent inquiry.”

    I think Crown and MV are right. This is the crap that is going to be shovelled in our direction incessantly until Mexico.

    What truly ruffles my feathers is, how can these people call themselves “journalists”? How can ANY newspaper publisher claim any integrity when they publish this unattributable rubbish and it flashes around the world?

    Moral cripples, the lot of them.

  70. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Ooops! I missed an “Action Now” button on the previous article and came up with this…………

    MOST Australians want a more ambitious emissions trading scheme than the one abandoned by the Rudd government, whether or not the US and China take similar steps, according to the most detailed study of public attitudes yet undertaken.


    Wow!! Chubby/Cubby/Bubby/Wubby has actually put his name to this twaddle, but there is no Comment facility to challenge him.


  71. Pointman says:

    Does he give a source for the survey?


  72. memoryvault says:

    Hi Blackswan

    Thanks for the link. I’ll stand corrected on this, but I think the “study” referred to in the article is the one they tried to foist on us back late January, early February, by the same people, claiming much the same thing.

    All that appears to have changed (and I’m only working from memory here) is the addition of the tedious “hottest year on record” line, and the “skeptics now have to accept the truth” crap.

    Given that it comes to us from the same folk who gave Brits the “end off snow in the UK”, the “BBQ summer” and the “mildest winter” predictions, one wonders why it isn’t relegated to the comics page of the newspapers.

  73. Pointman says:

    Swan, MV when I actually look at the people conducting these ‘surveys’, I invariably find a pressure group either doing it or paying for it to be done. Getting your hands on the questions actually being asked usually reveals how loaded the survey is.


  74. memoryvault says:


    A “source”? Good grief man, next you’ll be wanting “empirical evidence”.

  75. Pointman says:

    Jeez MV, let’s not drag the royal family into this. It’s bad enough already …


  76. memoryvault says:

    Why not? Wasn’t it HM’s beagles that were surveyed?

  77. Pointman says:

    Not HMS Beagle? You want to drag Evolution into it as well.


  78. memoryvault says:

    Actually, given the number of people who seem to actually believe all the AGW crap, I’ve given up on evolution.

    Monkey’s aren’t that stupid.

    Devolved, maybe.

  79. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    This is well worth a read……………….

    Decline and Fall of the USA
    NIALL FERGUSON July 29, 2010


    Are we truly watching a turn of the wheel?

  80. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Read it and weep…………………………..

    All-electric Boxster convertibles on test as Porsche races into the future.


    Is NOTHING sacred?

  81. Pointman says:

    As you say Swan, an interesting read. Ferguson’s area of interest always seems to be on money to the exclusion of any other historical factors. I think that’s the tail wagging the doggie of history.


  82. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Morning all,

    MV, Pointy, looks like we IBMs are left to hold the fort.

    Thanks to Caridnor, we find that the new oxygen thief thinks “I took care of that in short order.”

    Well, well. Straight through the front door………….kerpow!!!!!

  83. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    I actually clicked on the new oxygen thief’s link………….

    Wow, what a prolific thinker! The last entry was two and a half years ago…LOL


  84. Ozboy says:

    Something to chew on…

    I’m not sure if you’re all familiar with Professor Niall Ferguson or his The Ascent of Money; Ferguson is touring Australia at the moment and last night delivered the annual John Bonython lecture to the Centre for Independent Studies, a condensed version of which can be read here; if you’re American, it makes for pretty dismal reading—if you subscribe to his theories.

    Update: oops, I didn’t read swanny’s link above: he’s beaten me to it…

  85. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Already munching Oz…lol

    Blackswan Tasmania says:
    July 29, 2010 at 10:09 am

    This is well worth a read……………….

    Decline and Fall of the USA

  86. Dave, Edinburgh says:


    Sadly OZboy’s may be on the “hit” list.

    While engaging a troll for entertainment, Don’t expect it to offer any reasoned or valid argument, this is not what the Campaign Against Climate Change trolls are about, No, these “Useful Idiots” are recruited only to disrupt by any means possible any site that they are given by their handlers,

    The High Priests of Post Normal science have filled their trolls empty heads with garbage, the AGW trolls infest the media blogs for the sole purpose to disrupt any debate that does not suit their Gaia worshiping, carbon hating ideology.

    They “think”? that by parroting nonsense from Moonbat or real climate they will sow seeds of doubt that may sway some like minded loonys to join their “cause”.

    Who are the Campaign Against Climate Change?

    George Monbiot, honorary president of the Campaign against Climate Change

    Vice Presidents:
    Michael Meacher MP (Labour, Oldham West and Royton)

    Minister of State for the Environment May 1997 – June 2003

    Norman Baker MP (Liberal Democrats, Lewes)

    Lib-Dem Environment Spokesperson
    Caroline Lucas MP (Green Party, Brighton Pavilion)

    Tim Helweg-Larsen
    Director, Public Interest Research Centre; Research Director, Zero Carbon Britain

    Jean Lambert MEP
    Green Party, London

    Mark Lynas
    Author of “High Tide: News from a Warming World” and climate change journalist.

    George Marshall
    ex of Rising Tide and currently co-director of COIN (Climate Outreach and Information Network)

    Plus various other sickos from the Climate Change Coalition.

    This is the nonsense used to recruit the gullible to the CACC.
    “Are you fed up with sceptics and pseudo-scientists dominating blogs and news articles with their denialist propaganda? Well, fight back! We are trying to create an online army of online volunteers to try and tip the balance back in the favour of scientific fact, not scientific fiction”

    “You will receive one e-mail alert per day containing links to various climate change news articles. We need you to politely explain in the comments section why global warming is actually happening and why it’s not a big conspiracy. You can contribute to as little or as many articles as you like, just dive in.
    Theres any number of angles you might want to take but pointing out that the vast majority of climate scientists are sure that man made climate change is happening is not a bad one. Or how the fossil fuel companies are funding “think-tanks” whose job it is is to try and undermine the science of climate change. Or ..(I could go on forever). You’ve probably got lots to say already (so much truth to tell…) but you can also use the links on our Links page to back up your argument, or any of the further information on our Sceptics page.
    One last suggestion from us – you can also consider going onto the offensive and explain that the real uncertainty about man-made climate change is not whether its happening but how fast its happening and that in fact there is increasing evidence that the mainstream science of the IPCC is actually underestimating the scale and imminence of the threat. See our Climate Emergency page and the links at the bottom”

    What they are incapable of understanding is that “Argument from Authority” is meaningless. It’s a cheat shortcut. It’s unscientific. Post Normal science is nothing more than a government committee in drag.

    These Omnipresent Pseudonyms, who have considered, studied and know ALL of the oceanic, astronomic, atmospheric factors that affect our climate, never worry that their belief in the AGW theory is so strong yet they cannot name a single observation that supports it. Such devotion, Such faith.

    The data compiled by the Fiddle Orchestra section of Post Normal science shows nothing particularly dramatic over the last few decades, only fluctuations well within the range of normal variability, and absolutely NOTHING that correlates with human emission of CO2.

    Surely no honest scientist can fail to be disgusted by the words of Mike Hulme, founding director of the Tyndall Centre, Professor of Climate Change at the University of East Anglia. “dangerous climate change will NOT emerge from a normal scientific process of truth-seeking…scientists – and politicians – must trade truth for influence”. ie. fiddle the data then lie like a beggar.

    The day of reckoning is coming for those trying to defend this “disreputable and vile “Man-Made” concept which brazenly casts aside the need for any factual basis and declares in the most unambiguous terms that whatever values it chooses to promote constitutes a truth unimpeachable by reality and a set of values that none dare challenge”.

    If honest greens don’t regain control now, they and what they thought they stood for will get dragged down by the gathering worldwide wave of revulsion against everything seen as green, corrupt science, state handouts to environmental scams, funded by incompetent politicians using public money to build windfarms for their own financial gain and to be seen as the great leaders who defeated nature and saved the planet.

    Just wait till the power cuts, price hikes in the name of Carbon tax, loss of employment, (meaning that many decent hard working individuals will not be able to provide for their families) and restrictions of freedom begin to dawn on the public.

    Greenp*sh made a threat that they are many etc. but they will learn that their God is not on the side of the big battalions, but on the side of those who shoot best. (Voltaire)

    See you at the Alamo.

    Doesn’t bother me; I’ve always said contrary voices are welcome here at LibertyGibbert: a courtesy their own fora tend not to extend. Maybe it’ll give them pause for thought – Oz

  87. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Dave, Edinburgh says:
    July 29, 2010 at 11:54 am

    G’day Dave,

    A masterly posting Sir! You’ve laid the entire cynical use (misuse) of the “useful idiots” for anyone with a single active brain cell to see. That the idiots can’t/won’t see it, says a lot more about them than us.

    My preferred option is to utterly ignore any feeble attempts to disrupt the bonhomie of Oz’s Bar & Grill, but Ozboy, being the congenial host, unfailingly courteous, a Libertarian, and generally all-round good bloke is bound to offer a warm welcome to all.

    As a blow-in off the street, so to speak, I feel no such constraints and have decided NONE of the idiots is worth a nano-second of my time, so it’ll be scroll, ignore, scroll, ignore from me. Still, I should pay more attention to myself – Never Say Never…lol

    Great work Dave.

  88. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Just read your note to Dave.

    “Maybe it’ll give them pause for thought”.

    Oz, maaate, there IS no Santa Claus, no tooth fairy and no rational discourse with an IRrational fool……lol

    I do admire your fortitude.

  89. Blackswan got some government footage there is a Santa Claus….

  90. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    I stand corrected. Now I’ll be on the naughty list.

  91. memoryvault says:

    Hi Dave, E

    Like Ozboy, I welcome the ignorant little buggers with open arms.

    But for entirely different reasons.
    For me it’s an acceptable form of bloodsport.

  92. Amanda says:

    Blackswan 9:44: You forgot ‘Pubby’. That probably explains it.

  93. Amanda says:

    Guys: I also see talk of ‘Dopenhagen’. More like ‘Popenhagen’: this is a religion, remember?

  94. Don’t ever let Damian T hear you say that on the DT blogs he’ll have the inquisition after you.

  95. Amanda says:

    Crown, dearheart, how come your gawd-help-us blog is holding my comment up for moderation? It’s ME, for crissakes! Nobody holds me up for moderation (except U. S. border control, but that’s another story). The DT practically writes love letters to me (though not Damian, who blamed the final snafu on Will Heaven — just mildly plausible, considering how pro-Delingpole I’ve been and how anti-James Heaven has been). I shoulda thought I’d have a highway to your haven!

  96. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    You asked me earlier about Facebook.

    Without the Cygnet’s help I’m clueless. I think you have to sign up to have access and you become a “friend”. Someone else here might be more useful.
    I thought Ch*mmy might create a page for herself, just as Blackswan has done.

  97. Amanda says:

    Crown, didn’t see your comment before mine. Well coincidence or what? Speak of the devil!

  98. Amanda says:

    Blackswan: OK, that’s great. But what if Ch*mmy (why the asterisk? Dunno, seems a good idea; paranoia on the Internet ain’t too unjustified) creates a site and still can’t find Blackswan? I don’t know anything about Facebook except that Walt and Crown call it Arsebook.

  99. Amanda your approved had family around hogging my computer.

  100. Amanda says:

    Hey Blackswan, a while back you mentioned a song. I’ve scored a few, laboriously, by means of a computer program, but I can’t play the piano as yet, so the only song I’ve recorded with video is a capella. Sang it for the friend I wrote it for before leaving Houston: the room is essentially a ground-level wine cellar (not that you’d know). At the risk of turning Oz’s into Amanda’s talent hour (another gawd-help-us), here it is:

  101. Amanda says:

    Oh sorry, forgot to put the text in afterwards to suppress the picture box…

    Awww that’s OK Amanda – in the case of your videos we’ll make an exception – Oz

  102. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    I read your application piece to be a DT blogger.

    I suspect they were looking for a little light-hearted frippery from a new girl-blogger.

    Direct criticism of a foreign Govt, exposure of work-camps, death and destruction of human lives is perhaps not what they had in mind, for a witty little puff-piece of writing from the US of A.

    Girl cadets are sent off to cover fashions at the race-track, yummy mummy lipsticks, or healthy lunch box snacks.

    Doyens such as Janet Daly or Melanie Phillips have “paid their dues” and have acquired their “gravitas” over a long period of time.

    I certainly do admire your “have a go” attitude. Follow it up and see what happens.

  103. Amanda says:

    Another P. S. My hair is straight because I made it that way. With some coercion. It hates to be straight on its own….

  104. Amanda says:

    Blackswan, thank you, dear. And I’m sure you are right. However, they already have Bryony Gordon. I am not Bryony Gordon. I rest my case, your Honour.

    I don’t know *what* Damian wanted, and I don’t think he knew, either. I don’t have any credentials: I’m an arty sort, I write songs, I’m a so-far-not-successful writer. It doesn’t make for a good blog blurb. Besides that, I’m a Delingpole anti-AGWer and I don’t think that helped all that much. Also these are not good times now for the blogs — witness the format changes and the general disgruntlement — so apart from anything else, I think my timing was not very good.

    And anyway, there’s no pleasing some people. When he said my first attempt was too long (though not really, in my judgement), I sent him a much revised, truncated idea, and this is it. I’m not saying it’s the best thing I ever wrote — it isn’t — something about the rhythm more than the content — but you tell me whether it mentions death and peasants and the dire world:

    ‘Don’t Mess With Texas’. Is that a military slogan, like ‘Don’t Tread On Me’ (the warning on a U. S. colonial flag, with an image of a snake for slow learners)? No, it has nothing to do with revolution, though it does have a cool kind of swagger. Which is exactly why the Texas Department of Transportation chose it – for their anti-litter campaign. The campaign’s been a great success, but aren’t those words a touch boastful for the twenty-first century? We’re well past the time of Indian-fighting, the era of missionaries in the hot summer sun, frying for God, and cowboys slapping leather in saloons. True, the last Texan president wanted Osama bin Laden to be captured ‘dead or alive’ – which certainly doesn’t let the old Lone Star spirit down. But what about all the non-presidents, huddling in their air-conditioned offices, driving up to Whataburger for one-with-jalapeños-hold-the-mayo, and hollering at the screen during Sunday night football? Aren’t they all just like people in Rhode Island and Kansas?
    Not identical, no. They often look just like other Americans, their drawl isn’t over-the-top, and most of the time they blend in with the rest. But scratch that surface, and they really are harder underneath. More feisty, prouder, more freedom-loving. More willing to defend themselves. As their rootin’ tootin’ pistol-shootin’ governor, Rick Perry, has just reminded us. Out jogging with his daughter’s puppy, he decided it was high noon when they were threatened by a coyote. The coyote went down quickly – a .380 Ruger with a laser guide saw to that – and the governor thinks it wasn’t in very much pain. But as the press reported with some relish, the message to all coyotes is clear: ‘Don’t mess with my dog’. I say it sends another message as well. Don’t mess with Texas, it’s still going strong.

  105. Amanda I assume you have WHS or wavy hair syndrome as well or CHS curly hair syndrome.

  106. Amanda says:

    Oz, you are such a gentleman!

  107. Amanda says:

    Crown, I have every bloody syndrome, especially F. H. (frizzy hair). It’s the worst, worst, worst hair you can have. Won’t accept any shape or style but its own. In humid weather I look like brown candy floss. Grrr.

  108. Locusts says:

    Niall Ferguson’s Ascent of Money is a good read, I’ll lend my copy to the first person that sends me a decent sized steak.

    bje, I respect your belief in the infallibility of science, but not in the infallibility of scientists. Do you believe in a scientific consensus? What are your opinions on old Lovelock, who couldn’t get a research grant no matter how hard he tried, and ended up doing all of his science in a shed at home. You also did not make any attempt to acknowledge how much science, how many facts and figures that the average man takes for granted as a matter of faith in the establishment. If you refuse to believe that I myself really have no way of verifying the composition of the moon other than via my own senses. That every time I talk about the moon, I’m just spouting something I once read in a book or saw on the TV because I have never been there, and never ever seen a moon-stone, how can I engage you in honest debate. I will say it again 99% of the stuff in my head, I believe as a matter of faith.

    You have added no new facts, no new arguments, all you have said, is, I BELIEVE, and all I have said is, I doubt.

    One of the differences between Christianity and Islam, please correct me if I am wrong, is that Islam does not allow its followers to doubt its message, Christianity does. I will take that proud Christian heritage and say I doubt some of the proclamations of men and women, and the motivations behind them. For remember, a scientist is first a man, and second a scientist, not the other way round.

  109. amanda maybe you should done a Melissa Whitworth she has pic of her on the internet although I suspect that’s not Damian’s thing maybe you will have to get your husband to pose or something.
    However your way too classy for that I suspect.

  110. Amanda says:

    Oh, by the way, I’d like to say that I recorded the song past 11 pm., and was tired, and even when not tired I don’t always hit the notes squarely except when I’m really concentrating (my songs are often, like this one, breath-intensive, meaning that you really have to breathe in the right places or you get out of puff). Interesting for me: as a songwriter I write melodies that I find challenging as a singer (given my limited vocal training and a range that I wish were a bit wider).

  111. Amanda says:

    Crown: never heard of M. Whitworth but if you think I’m classier than her, I’m sure not going to protest.

  112. Amanda says:

    Locusts: Niall Ferguson’s all right about some things. Not sure I’d trust him completely, though. Bill Kristol, Victor Davis Hanson, Robert Kagan, David Pryce-Jones, Andy McCarthy — bunch of Americans I would trust with my life, and all the earthly facts. But not necessarily Niall. Just sayin’.

  113. She decided to do some artistic pics before she got pregnant. A bit narcissistic her pieces are pure fluff.

  114. Well since you all claim to be celts down under you’ll understand this one..

    If you ever get a chance go see them well worth it for a bit of culture.

  115. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Ch*mmy is because that’s the way YOU wrote it a while back……..


    The song. Thank you so much, you have a lovely voice. It seemed too sad for such a positive up-beat person. BTW, I take back the “have-a-go” attitude – far too inadequate for such a talented person.

    Also, your hair “won’t accept any shape or style but its own”. Don’t argue with Mother Nature. What other kind would a lady like you have?…lol

    Your Texas piece was good. Maybe if you paddle your kayak out to the middle of The Pond, you’ll find the inspiration for some “middle ground” the DT will think suitable for their UK readership.


  116. Amanda your song was very good I can imagine how much better with background music. I’m not sure of our collective musical talents here to form your backing band I may be able to play the spoons.

  117. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    You have the patience and finesse to be in the Diplomatic Corps.

    About the steak, can’t help unless you’re in Oz sometime.

  118. Blackswan Tasmania says:


    Thanks for the Celtic “refresher” – the lady’s a dead-ringer for our new PM..LOL

  119. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    “I may be able to play the spoons.”

    I used to be able to play a gum-leaf. Now it’d just tickle my lips..lol

    Didn’t think I was serious did you?

  120. Pretty good looking women the fiddle player is cutest of course I admire them for their talent.

    Not normally into blonds generally like brunettes or red heads but in her case I would make an exception well I would but the missus would not be very happy with me and sharp objects have been mentioned.

  121. ScouseBilly says:

    From the Times Educational Supplement:

    Brilliant expose of the green “Baptists and Bottleggers”:


  122. Blackswan the old guy was pretty good.

  123. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    ScouseBilly says:
    July 29, 2010 at 2:27 pm

    Certainly brilliant AND comprehensive. Left no green mossy stone left unturned.

  124. Blackswan Tasmania says:


    As kids, we used to do that sort of thing with a cigarette paper and a comb.

  125. blackswan I wondered why that jogged a few memory cells we did the same.

  126. Amanda says:

    Blackswan: You are very kind and say all the right things. Something about sweet-talking the birds from the trees comes to mind…. Anyway, yes it is sad — first song I ever wrote (7 years ago). Had to be written — sort of forced itself on me. The friend understands.

    As for the blogs — well it was a fun idea, but I never held my breath. It was bound to be a ‘no’ — always the easiest response. I asked Damian whether he had a gap that perhaps I could fill, as I was willing to be flexible. He gave me no hints. For all I know, being a blogger would have turned out to be a right pain in the ***!

  127. Amanda says:

    Crown, if I ever write a song about the Cookie Monster I shall recruit you: your instrument will be spoons and a trash can with Oscar the Grouch popping out now and then.

  128. memoryvault says:

    Excellent article on the overall fraud of AGW, and its hijacking by big money and govt interests – from the Times Education section.

    Plenty of ammo here against the cultists, on just about every front that counts.


  129. Here’s a song to rally the troops… http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIsv1YOFNys
    The lefties are the bug menace.

  130. Blackswan Tasmania says:


    ScouseBilly says: July 29, 2010 at 2:27 pm has exactly the same link.

    It’s certainly a goody.

  131. memoryvault says:

    Sorry –

    I read all the posts but don’t always follow all the links. Must have missed that one.

  132. fenbeagle says:

    Locusts says:
    July 29, 2010 at 5:19 am

    Very nice post that Locusts, thank you

  133. fenbeagle says:

    Locusts says:
    July 29, 2010 at 1:41 pm

    ….Again, another nice post!

  134. fenbeagle says:

    bjedwards says:
    July 29, 2010 at 7:19 am

    hi bj.
    The scientific method is good. As you say.

  135. Edward. says:

    ScouseBilly says:
    July 29, 2010 at 2:27 pm

    Great link ScouseBilly/MV,

    People who fit photovoltaic cells have been sold a lie, simple fact no ifs no buts. It is the liars we are after, the politicians are the problem Chris Huhne is a di**head – he’s gotta go and go now.


  136. suffolkboy says:

    Whatever happened to “Spitting Image”? JD (July 28th, 2010) says the sceptics need a figurehead, which might be true. But satire, however crude, may have its place in persisting pricking at the bubble persona of politicians and their issues.

    Doris [Booker, July 29th, 8:29BST] has located a potential cause of the hairless gooseberries in Ormskirk , Lancashire. Tasty. But Lancashire is fighting back:

  137. Locusts says:


    When you sent these articles in to Damian, did you remember to include a picture of you struggling in to a wetsuit?

    I’ve only read the Ascent of Money by Ferguson, then seen some of his TV programs, I liked them on the whole, but did think he is rather optimistic about the future.

  138. Edward. says:


    I notice a link to ‘sustainable living’ in the piece, didn’t Mr. Micawber explain how, what sustainable living is all about?
    Quite apart from all the great questions of AGW, since when is it a mickey mouse councils remit to advise people on any of this bollocks.
    Street lighting, Policing and refuse disposal, that was the limit, now the empire builders are social engineers, dietitians and saving the planet, no wonder bills have risen so fast and by so much.
    But they cry, when the reaper comes round, “it is libraries and services that will be cut!” – what about the idiots such as ‘global warming officers’ or ‘five a day’ advisers or ‘healthy living managers’, AGW is just another department in Today’s ‘concerned’ councils – how did it ever come to this?
    Concerned in everything about you and me but not about how to save the rate-payer money.

    Socialism in all its forms, is a malaise and a disease, no wonder they do not want AGW to be disemboweled.


  139. suffolkboy says:

    Looks like the Omsk Defra laboratories are at risk of flooding. But fear not. Lancashire city council are on the case…..

    Quote begins:
    How will it impact Lancaster district?

    Climate models suggest that without committed action to reduce greenhouse gas emissions the weather in Europe by 2040 will be akin to that of the UK heat wave of summer 2003.

    The UK Climate Impacts Programme predicts that by 2020 winter temperatures will increase by as much as 1.2°C and summer temperatures by 1.5°C. By 2050 the North West of England will have an average of 18% less annual rainfall (with a maximum reduction of 36%) and an average temperature increase of 2ºC (with a maximum increase of 3.1ºC).

    Although these changes sound small, any warming of the Earth affects the temperature of the seas. This could lead to the irreversible melting of the Greenland ice sheet – resulting in severe flooding. This in turn is likely to lead to the extinction of between 20-50% of the species on our planet and up to 3 million more cases of malnutrition. (That’s twice the population of Lancashire; let them eat black pudding — Ed.)
    Quote ends.

    Source: http://www.lancaster.gov.uk/community-and-living/sustainable-living/climate-change/

  140. Edward. says:

    God have mercy upon their souls, Launch the lifeboats!


  141. suffolkboy says:

    It’s not just the councils. It’s quangos like NHS Trust boards. On the whole, the attendees are not at all well-informed about climate change — it’s just what they read in the papers –and, usually, not particularly passionate about it. They are, however, extremely passionate about hitting targets. The procedures seems to be that each quango is told to establish local targets linked to green theory. Then each manager has to explain each month how they have met each target, including the green targets. In practice, this, like most project management with targets, consists of each manager attempting to spin their own numbers to make it appear that targets have been met, and attempting to push the responsibility for achieving next moth’s target (or blame for missing this month’s) on to another manager in the team. It is a complete waste of time and money. This reward-for-hitting-targets goes, I suspect, all the way up the middle and senior management and up to central government. I suspect that many of these people get pay bonuses for hitting targets.

    I have only just starting seeing these councils publications. I fear the worst. The Lancashire example is probably typical. The current fashion in Suffolk (and probably elsewhere) is for “transition towns” and planning permission for token windmills just on the outskirts of towns.

  142. Edward. says:

    Like moanbots little helpers, they are just reading from the script, no individual thinking will be tolerated, so like the USSR and now EUSSR.


  143. Edward. says:


    The whole of it is so sinister but is such a waste of man power and time and most of all money, this country is struggling…….don’t they get it..or is it just that they don’t need to think like the rest of the human race, who are just trying to make ends meet.
    Irony is they want to save the planet but have no concern for the people who live in their own nation.


  144. Pointman says:

    ScouseBilly July 29, 2010 at 2:27 pm

    That’s a truly excellent article. At the risk of being boring, I say again, never mind the ‘science’, follow the money.


  145. Pointman says:

    Dave, Edinburgh July 29, 2010 at 11:54 am

    Ozboy’s site has grown dramatically in the last few months. This growth has been fuelled by an exodus of posters from the DT blog because of its change over to Disqus, which renders any intelligent running debate impossible but over and above this was the introduction of heavy-handed censorship. I never liked the cult of personality aspect of the DT blog but was prepared to work with whatever came to hand in what is essentially a political struggle. Interestingly, Ozboy’s blog has grown to have a flavour all of its own while the DT has deteriorated into a fractious and quite tiresome chatroom. Basically, it’s neither informative nor fun to read. This blog is both and more.

    Being put on a hitlist by the econazis is a acknowledgement of progress made, an accolade. We’re getting big enough to worry them. Congrats Ozboy and all you posters!


  146. suffolkboy says:

    @ScouseBilly July 29, 2010 at 2:27 pm
    From my limited reading of the TES over the last few years, it does not normally baulk at providing a platform for discussion over contentious issues, albeit those which are primarily of concern to teachers and school managers, so I was not surprised at the publication of this article. Its audience, at least in schools, certainly do not have the time,inclination, and usually not the knowledge either, to engage in debate, and are required to conform to, via the QCA and GTC, whatever agenda the government of the day sets, whether this be climate change, the history of the slave trade or human rights movements.

  147. orkneylad says:

    Pointman –

    “You tell me what you know, and I’ll confirm. I’ll keep you in the right direction if I can, but that’s all. Just… follow the money.”
    Deep Throat: All the President’s Men (1976)

    “You follow drugs, you get drug addicts and drug dealers. But you start to follow the money, and you don’t know where the f*ck it’s gonna take you.”
    Det. Lester Freamon: The Wire

    “Follow the dirt and it leads to money. Follow the money and it leads to power. This maxim has rarely let me down.”
    Simon Jenkins

  148. Pointman says:

    “Massive 40% decline in ocean’s phytoplankton puts entire marine food chain under threat”


    Yes, the alarmists have got their foot on the gas pedal again. The infowar message is ‘the sea is dying’. Time to look into “researchers from Dalhousie University in Canada ” who produced the junk.


  149. manonthemoor says:

    July 29, 2010 at 8:16 pm

    This ‘fact’ was featured on R4 Today program this morning.

    With no backup, this is global, warming, you must worry about this now, things are getting worse!

    Will this propaganda ever end?

    We the bloggers and comments are winning and at this time are unstoppable.

    We do not rely on funding just common sense, and commit our time and expertise to making the AGW scam visible courtesy of Oz.

    Mexico and the USA mid term elections will be our ‘tipping point’ — I fixed the simulator/model …….LOL

  150. Pointman says:

    Dalhousie University – Environment, Sustainability and Society page.

    “History, theatre, management, community design, sociology, the sciences – anything that you have a passion for can be paired with ESS. Explore program options with the faculties of:”

    Basically what they’re saying is the ESS modules are easy bolt-ons to any of the above. A no brainer for the lazy or less academically gifted. The video on the page has a selection of the lecturers trotting out the usual bollocks, ice cap disappearing etc etc. The words ‘social’ and ‘change’ occur frequently in their spiels. I wouldn’t trust the impartiality of any research coming out of this institution. It’s all about indoctrinating young minds. Post Normal Science meets political re-education.


  151. Pointman says:

    Meet the director of ESS


    Notice the sources of the funding.


  152. Pointman says:

    Meet Daniel Boyce, the lead author.


    He’s interested in “understanding the effects of external forcing ” – An as yet unproven concept but it’s existance is assumed and he goes from there.
    “I apply meta-analytic and statistical modelling techniques” – ie modelling of non-linear complex systems yet again …


  153. Old Toad says:

    Pointman. You describe the DT blog (presumably JD’s) as ‘a fractious and quite tiresome chatroom , it’s neither informative nor fun to read’
    Any blog is only as good as the comments it engenders, and one or two of them seemed to think that James’s two attacks on Huhne and his windfarms showed a commendable fighting spirit.
    I have repeatedly said that Ozboy’s site is excellent and worth joining, but we have to recognise that ‘DT Blogs’, with its manifold faults, is still the front line in the fight against climate alarmism and it is thence that new recruits to our cause are garnered.
    Yesterday ‘oldmanmow’ , when inviting Old Goat from France over here, described Ozboy’s as an ‘extra adjunct to the JD site’. I hope it will remain so !

  154. manonthemoor says:

    July 29, 2010 at 8:43 pm

    How come a university dedicated to architects (see employment and funding associates etc. is researching the sea and plankton.

    Do they know something we do not, like the channel or the north sea are going to drain away, due to global warming ‘evaporation’. Clearly this would provide much needed opportunities for sand castles and hence architects.

  155. Pointman says:

    Old Toad July 29, 2010 at 8:56 pm.

    OldToad I totally agree with your observations. The point I was making is that the new DT blog has lost the ability to persuade an open mind. I know from talking to people, this used to happen in the old format and while not a Damascene event was more of a clincher in deprogramming people away from the AGW church. The DT blog is now just two armed camps screaming at each other. That’s a win for the trolls.


  156. manonthemoor says:

    Old Toad says:
    July 29, 2010 at 8:56 pm

    The difficulty with the DT /JD site is that despite some good comments they are so quickly buried, thus denying any meaningful discussion.

    The ongoing popularity of Oz’s efforts is a demonstration of what can be achieved and is as you infer supporting rather than challenging JD’s efforts.

    The sheer hit count for Oz is a demonstration of this effect in relation to the numbers achieved by the DISQUS monster.

    But will DT change — We are not holding our breath!

  157. orkneylad says:

    A quick media-collage for you on ‘the illusion of freedom’:

  158. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Hello Everyone,

    Looking at that Lancaster site and Suffolkboy’s subsequent post, I think that if we are truly the realists we know ourselves to be, a little realism might be just too hard to contemplate.

    We all live in disparate localities, from Beijing to Memphis to Scotland to Tasmania, but we all share the same Climate Change infrastructure. It is done.

    We don’t like it, we didn’t invent it, we can see it for what it is, but we all live with it – in one form or another.

    Just imagine if the Grant-a-wish-Genie materialised out of a bottle and granted us all our dearest CC wish. The whole CC shebang would vanish in a flash, the CC Hucksters, Shysters, Banksters and Frauds would all be in prison and we could go back to living the essentially ordinary lives of ordinary people going about their day-to-day affairs.

    And then??? The thousands, tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands, no millions of people around the world who are employed in promoting, servicing and maintaining the Climate Change Industry would suddenly find they had no job to go to, no income to pay their mortgages or raise their families.

    Anyone under the age of 50 whose entire education has hinged around CC principles, from their maths problems to language essays and compositions, their science (or what passes for it) lessons, biology & sociology classes, even entire university degrees on “sustainable climate” ideologies would all be vacated and declared a load of mumbo jumbo (which we know it to be), how many of those people would be bereft, many of their qualifications worthless.

    I’m sure you can all spot the overkill or think up a few more examples.

    No more wind turbines or PV panels. All the people employed putting them up could be employed to pull them all down again – but that’s a finite job description.

    Imagine how our respective economies would be awash with cash otherwise spent on CC crap. We could have sparkling new hospitals everywhere, luxury aged care homes, schools and universities with every modern facility we could dream up.

    Oooops! Forgot the Welfare Industry. The teeming thousands suddenly thrown on the scrap-heap of CC would be queuing around the block for their dole cheques and “entitlements”. We would be even more impoverished than CC threatens to render us.

    Anyone up for taking that stopper out of the Genie’s bottle?

    When we envisaged creating a brave new world in the 1960s/70s, with the myopic vision of youth, did we know we were yanking the stopper on Maurice Strong’s genie-in-the-climate-change-bottle? Assuredly not, but we did it anyway.

    We know it’s a Lie, it’s been proven to be a Lie, we can spread the knowledge that it’s a Lie but what Govt, what Economy could ever afford to admit it’s a Lie and they are Liars?

    Where to from here? What would be the consequences? If we want to change our current status quo, we have to acknowledge what those consequences will be and how we can make better choices than we have in the past.

    Anyone up for discussion?

  159. orkneylad says:

    Swan – There’s gonna be a lot of refugees & campfires…..

  160. Pointman says:

    I think we should never understimate our effect on the debate. A repost of something I write in March but it still applies.

    We are engaged in an information war. Any strategy is constrained by what resources are at hand. The resources we have are our own expertises and the freedom of the internet to disseminate information. By using these intelligently and imaginatively, the blogosphere have blown the foundations from beneath the following propositions in the IPCC 2007 report.

    1. The world’s temperature is rising inexorably.
    2. Glaciers are melting at an alarming rate.
    3. The Amazon forest is disappearing.
    4. Sea levels are rising and rising.
    5. Polar bears are heading for extinction!

    These are the high points but there are many others. Demolish the “science”. This was the first phase. What has been achieved tactically?

    1. Pachurai under siege and investigation.
    2. Mann under siege and investigation
    3. Jones under siege and investigation (double dose)
    4. IPCC reputation in tatters.
    5. Met Office reputation in tatters.
    6. US climate Offices (NOAA etc) reputations in tatters.
    7. With possibly one exception, all the rigged investigations are expected to deliver whitewashes. This will be the best result for us since it’s precisely what an increasingly sceptical public is expecting.
    8. EPA under litigation siege in America.
    9. Complete failure at Copenhagen.

    What has it achieved strategically?

    1.The “settled” science is no longer settled. In terms of perceived credibility, it’s toast.

    2.Because of 1, elements of the MSM now feel free to question the whole idea of AGW and are doing so with gusto. We’ve achieved MSM breakthrough in Europe and the States are close behind.

    3.The segments of the MSM who tried to ignore Climategate since November, are being forced to mention it simply because their competitors are now running with the story and it’s playing with the public.

    4. Elements of the body politic (notably in Australia and Canada) are beginning to recognize that an anti-AGW stance will win votes, which is the only thing that matters to a politician.

    Whither now?

    The strategic objective has to be political breakthrough. How is this to be achieved?

    1. Don’t get bogged down debating the “science” with the warmists. They’re moving from Denial to Anger stage, as can be seen from their increasingly hysterical posts in the blogosphere. We’ve won that phase. Let’s move on.

    2. Spread the message into the political arena by emailing your local Congressmen/ Representatives/ MPs/ MEPs/ Councilmen and posting on sites whose focus is on politics. Don’t bother arguing the science. E.g. In the light of the serious reservations now raised about “climate science”, how can we consider spending such vast amounts of money, de-industrializing ourselves, ramping up unemployment etc etc in the face of the worst economic recession in living memory? If you want my vote etc etc. Adapt as suitable for your location but DO IT NOW AND FROM NOW ON!

    3. Keep on blogging. This site, like a number of influential ones, is read by a lot more people than actually contribute to it and good contributions are copied to other blogs.


  161. Edward. says:

    Pointman says:
    July 29, 2010 at 8:52 pm

    Good day to you sir.

    Climatology and the so called science behind it – lost it when it immersed itself in statistics, too much recent quasi scientific method relies upon statistical jiggery pokery, it does not provide answers but more questions. The statistics say that we can say with 75% (think of a number) certainty that…………….. and computer models suggest blah blah blah…………ad infinitum.
    Post normal science is statistical analysis.

    Funnily enough though, the statistics of the real efficiency of wind turbines are never heralded, because they are so bad, so statistics do have some value even if the politicians choose to ignore them.

    The main problem is the credibility given by these nerdy kids to the models, nothing in the real world can be modelled with any satisfying degree of accuracy – that’s where the stats come in.
    Yes models are useful in testing the stresses and strains on a bridge or building where to a certain extent the inputs and outside influences can be measured and quantified.
    It is not so in the earth’s atmosphere because we do not know the processes still less understand them, similarly in oceanographic modelling, the models are quite useless at predicting anything worthwhile, predicting deprivation/specie extinctions in Oceans is a study in its infancy we cannot set any store in what ‘the models tell us’ and a University (Dalhousie/whatever) of such nondescript standing should know where its limits are.
    However publicity is cheap, getting your name in lights involves AGW and anything that is ‘on message’ is food and drink to the loons in the MSM + lots of lovely jubbly government funding, fill yer boots mickey mouse Uni’s!


  162. manonthemoor says:

    Blackswan Tasmania
    July 29, 2010 at 9:11 pm

    I too share your concerns about the impact of the destruction of the AGW ethic and propaganda.

    If AGW is plan A and shall we assume plan B is to do nothing.

    Then I agree that WE all should be discussing the impacts and solutions PLAN C.

    I believe it is wrong to kill plan A without a thought to the implications.

    There has to be a middle way, there must be a middle way, else we are as guilty as the AGW supporters of promoting chaos and anarchy.

  163. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    OL & MOTM

    If homeless refugees and their campfires abound, will that mean the Green Police of the UN’s Agenda 21 will be knocking on the door.

    “You are a retired couple in a 4 bedroom house, this is a waste of limited resources, here is another family who will be taking up residence here. Comply or suffer the consequences”.

    It happened in the 20th century, they just called it something else…..War.

  164. Pointman says:

    orkneylad July 29, 2010 at 9:11 pm

    Brilliant graphics! I just love the @Thank you MSM’.


  165. Edward. says:


    EU referendum on met office edict:

    Run for the hills we’re all doomed.


  166. fenbeagle says:

    Love the posters Orkneylad

  167. manonthemoor says:

    Blackswan Tasmania
    July 29, 2010 at 9:38 pm

    Surely it is not in anyones best interests to have a war.

    Plan C must be that way, but there are so many facets/topics to any plan C

    Perhaps Oz might consider another heading, for plan C, where we can agree a set of topics and objectives, leading then to open discussions about each topic. Even a topic of the week to keep the focus.

    As an alternative the Rastech site might choose to host such a discussion, either way the discussion needs to take place as an alternative to war.

  168. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    orkneylad @ 9.11am

    I agree with Pointman. Super graphics. The MSM one is a classic and should be a banner draped over the Sydney Opera House or the Harbour Bridge. Love it.

  169. memoryvault says:

    Hi Blackswan,

    Bit late for an old codger to be joining in the start of what could prove to be a long and complex discussion, but having been on this particular journey since the mid-eighties I think I can clear up some misconceptions for you.

    There is no need for the grant-a-wish genie because the situation that you describe is exactly what is meant to happen, was designed to happen, is planned to happen. The Maurice Strong Genie was never one of “climate change”, but “population reduction” – with plausible deniability. The whole climate change scenario has just proved to be a convenient band-wagon to ride on – a means to an end.

    With the exception of anyone of note ending up in jail, all the “what-ifs” you describe are exactly what is planned, and will happen now in the next couple of years. Yes, the wheels are going to fall off; yes two entire generations are going to realise their educations were a complete waste of time; yes, tens of thousands will find themselves out of work; yes, the dole queues will stretch for miles; yes, there will probably be power, gas, petrol and food shortages, with subsequent rioting in the streets. Yes, our respective countries are going to go bankrupt.

    All these things, and many far more horrific than you or I want to think about, or possibly even could imagine, will now come to pass, as has always been planned. After nearly three decades of study, I have no doubt whatsoever that the planners and schemer have a very good idea of what “climate” is doing and is about to do.

    I am convinced that, behind the Michael Mann, Phil Jones and crowd “Hockey Team” style of pseudo “post-normal” science, prepared and disseminated for consumption by a gullible, dumbed-down public, REAL research continues, REAL computer models are running, REAL predictions and projections are constantly being prepared, presented and updated to and for the people who count and make the decisions.

    The “Plan” was never about world governments or anything so grandiose. It is simply about killing off a very large proportion of us, leaving the survivors so shell-shocked, and defenseless so as to accept whatever iron-fisted, jack-booted future is offered, with the same psychopaths in control, and with nobody to “blame”. It is as simple as that.

    You and I and all the other well-meaning, ethically-orientated people cannot change this now, and I have my doubts that we ever could, human nature being what it is. There are however, some achievable and desirable targets we can strive for.

    First and foremost, we can go on researching and identifying the players behind all this, and exposing them. That way, when they are hungry and cold, Joe Public, or at least a sizable portion of them, will have someone to identify and blame and shake their fists at, instead of turning inwards, on each other, as is currently planned. In this way, maybe, just maybe, we might be able to start over next time with a clean slate and make our own mistakes, instead of still being led firmly by the nose by those who brought us to this situation in the first place.

    Second, we can go on sticking it up the izens and bjedwards and cultsings and other useful idiots, as hard and as often as we can. I don’t stomp on these miserable, misguided creatures every opportunity I get because I am sadistic by nature.

    What they are and who they will become was amply demonstrated by the Iraq War. Despite literally thousands of blogs, comments to newspapers, and demonstrations, when it became apparent that there were not, and never had been WMD’s to justify the war, the average American reaction was not “we wus conned”, but rather “how did we get the intelligence so wrong”?.

    This time around, this cannot and must not be allowed to happen. We will never convert the izens and bjedwards; what we can do, MUST do, is deny them the comfort blanket in the future, of claiming they did not, could not know they were being conned. Forced to accept, sometime in the future, that not only were they conned, but became willing accomplices, will, in some of them at least, create the most strident foot-soldiers in tracking down and bringing to justice those responsible, and even more importantly, working to ensure we create a better future than the one they helped create. In this I speak from personal experience.

    Third, we can give each other whatever advice, help and moral comfort we can, as things get bad, and then worse, as they surely must now. As ephemeral as this may seem now, as time goes by it may just become the most important thing we can do for each other now, and for those who follow in the future.

  170. Amerloque says:

    Hello bjedwards !
    on July 29, 2010 at 7:27 am

    /// Fortunately, reason will win and you will have to look for something else to do. Perhaps embrace Creationism if you do not already. ///

    Perhaps you should try to broaden your knowledge base ?

    Amerloque, hardly a creationist, suggests:

    “Rocks of Ages: Science and Religion in the Fullness of Life”


    Stephen Jay Gould

    “In his distinctively elegant style, Gould offers a lucid, contemporary principle that allows science and religion to coexist peacefully in a position of respectful noninterference. Science defines the natural world; religion our moral world in recognition of their separate spheres of influence. In exploring this thought-provoking concept, Gould delves into the history of science, sketching affecting portraits of scientists and moral leaders wrestling with matters of faith and reason. Stories of seminal figures such as Galileo, Darwin, and Thomas Henry Huxley make vivid his argument that individuals and cultures must cultivate both a life of the spirit and a life of rational inquiry in order to experience the fullness of being human.

    In Rocks of Ages, Gould’s passionate humanism, ethical discernment, and erudition are fused to create a dazzling gem of contemporary cultural philosophy.”

    “Revered and eminently readable essayist Stephen Jay Gould has once again rendered the complex simple, this time mending the seeming split between the two “Rocks of Ages,” science and religion. He quickly, and rightfully, admits that his thesis is not new, but one broadly accepted by many scientists and theologians. Gould begins by suggesting that Darwin has been misconstrued–that while some religious thinkers have used divinity to prove the impossibility of evolution, Darwin would have never done the reverse.
    Gould eloquently lays out not “a merely diplomatic solution” to rectify the physical and metaphysical, but “a principled position on moral and intellectual grounds,” central to which is the elegant concept of “non-overlapping magisteria.” (Gould defines magisteria as a “four-bit” word meaning domain of authority in teaching.) Essentially, science and religion can’t be unified, but neither should they be in conflict; each has its own discrete magisteria, the natural world belonging exclusively to science and the moral to religion.
    Gould’s argument is both lucid and convincing as he cites past religious and scientific greats (including a particularly touching section on Darwin himself). Regardless of your persuasions, religious or scientific, Gould holds up his end of the conversation with characteristic respect and intelligence. ”

    (The blurbs quoted above are from the amazon.com listing. The book is far better.)


    Amerloque 20100729 13h55 Paris time (CET)

  171. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Thanks, you have encapsulated exactly what I meant.
    I know that CC is simply the Trojan Horse, the vehicle which would carry the rabid Eugenicist’s policies into every facet of our lives.
    The point of my post is to promote discussion of the inevitable consequences of current global policies.
    I think arguing the minutiae of ludicrous “science” hypotheses is simply distracting from the real issues that face us now.
    I think engaging the “useful idiots” is equally futile, although I “get it” about not leaving them any wriggle room in the wash-up.

    I want to see an acknowledgment of the UN and the EU in this and its consequences.
    Just the other day we see Cameron agreeing to “allow” EU Security and Police onto British soil. For what? Chasing soccer hooligans?
    I mentioned the other day that I think the TRG and other elite police/security forces aren’t there to sort out a few yobbos in Macquarie Fields or Redfern. Ultimately they’ll have a much wider brief.

    The UN’s Agenda 21 challenges the principles of private property, the raison d’etre being to police “sustainable use” thereof.

    My previous scenario about multiple occupancy of private property describes a situation an elderly Hungarian friend of mine (RIP) described, as first the Nazis then the Russians overran her country. “It was War”, she said, “Tough – you get over it”.

    Tomorrow, it will be called “sustainability” – same outcome.

    While we are nitpicking about local politicians ( who are just more highly paid useful idiots), our respective countries are signing up to ever-more UN treaties, pacts, policies that simply gouge deeper into society as we knew it.

    I just figure we needed to start some other conversations in directions that shine more light on the cockroaches who scuttle for cover.

  172. dirlada says:

    orkneylad 29th Jult 9.11

    Thanks Orkneylad, I think the MSM one is my fave

  173. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Hi Dirlada,

    Good to see you here. That MSM poster should be our rallying banner don’t you think?

  174. manonthemoor says:

    A bit late today


    An old fashioned word probably consigned to the language of estate agents and solicitors.
    Basically it meant where you live.

    Examples of Dwellings

    Houses in various sizes, Cottages, Flats, Terraces, Hermitages, Caves, Tower blocks, Apartments, Bungalows, Chalets, Mobile homes even Boarding houses and Hotels. Of course this includes ownership, rental and paid for accommodation.

    In extreme cases:- Jails, Cells, Poor houses and Hostels.

    Except in a minority of cases (sleeping rough) we all have a dwelling to rest our heads at the end of the day.

    As Blackswan Tasmania has pointed out, a couple or a single person living in a 4 bedroom house may not be cost effective, energy efficient or politically correct as viewed by Agenda21. I would point out that such people have bought these houses , worked and brought up children, during which time they have paid taxes and council tax for the right to live in their property.

    At the other end of the scale there may be migrants or farm workers living/surviving in unpleasant conditions, due to unscrupulous landlords or employers.

    Unfortunately equality is an ideal which is very difficult to achieve and does not necessarily suit everyone. Would everyone choose the same holiday? Would everyone choose to eat the same food?

    How does this relate to AGW then what are the low energy options

    1/ Ban central heating – make people return to sensible winter and summer clothes.
    2/ Ban air conditioning.
    3/ Ban car purchase/ownership unless off road parking is available (as in Japan)
    4/ Impose the use of 4 poster beds with curtains.
    5/ Consider Japanese ‘Sleeping Tubes’ eg stacked accommodation.
    6/ Provide accommodation in hollowed out windmill bases, with free ear plugs.
    7/ Limit the use of domestic electricity to overnight off peak periods
    8/ Insist that all four bedroom houses and above, use the ground floor as a cattle shed, thereby providing food, milk, manure, methane and heat for the rest of the household.

    Clearly there are lots of innovative ideas left for our politicians, masters and PC police to help us implement.

    We just have to decide which one first.

    ps Good post MV I think we all share the same concerns just express them differently

    Man on the Moor

  175. dirlada says:

    Hi Blackswan
    It should indeed!
    I get the sense that we need to re-rally – bigger, faster stronger! If we don’t the carbon tax bloodsuckers are going to feast off our bones.

  176. Pointman says:

    dirlada July 29, 2010 at 11:51 pm

    Time for a bop! Harder, Better, Faster, Stronger http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2cYWfq–Nw&feature=related


  177. dirlada says:

    hola Pointman
    Good to hear from you – it’s great to see so many familiar names. I like this blog – it feels sort of comfortable.

  178. Pointman says:

    dirlada July 30, 2010 at 12:04 am

    Hola Dirlada. Have you still got those sharp knitting needles? We may need them …


  179. dirlada says:

    Si, los tengo, y estan muy, muy afilados!

  180. Pointman says:

    Muy bueno, señorita.


  181. Amerloque says:

    Hi Edward !
    on July 29, 2010 at 8:20 am

    /// Oh yeah I know……models predict…….. .///

    This “climate modeling” guff has always amused Amerloque no end. (grin)

    As a ponyplayer, a punter on the nags in his youth, Amerloque would today be very, very interested in a predictive “model” that would forecast the winner in the Third next Sunday at, say, Saratoga or Deauville. Howz about the first three in the 150th Melbourne Cup in November ? (grin) What about the June 2011 winners of the Kentucky Derby, the Epsom Derby, or the Prix du Jockey Club ? (grin)

    Hell, Amerloque would even be happy with the Santa Anita Derby in SoCal, January 2011. ( grin)

    “Models” can’t even predict the winner(s) of a relatively simple horserace (using the millions of statistics and results and breeding records dating back a few hundred years) … and yet Amerloque supposed is to believe that some sort of “model” can predict “climate’ ? It has even more “variables” – some not even suspected – than horseracing, which has been followed intensely by millions of turfgoers over many, many years !

    Come off it, warmists ! Edward is absolutely correct !


    Amerloque 20100729 16h00 Paris time (CET)

  182. manonthemoor says:

    July 30, 2010 at 12:21 am

    Have you ever thought of giving us the Spanish view in the same way as Locusts provide a view of China. I have never been to Spain and we hear about bank problems and housing glut. So many thing apart from Sun, Pool and Wine.

    Any thoughts appreciated.

  183. manonthemoor says:

    July 30, 2010 at 12:36 am

    An excellent comparison — Back to the banking casino then!

  184. Lucy Jones on the DT has thrown down the guantlet to Aus on a serious issue… http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/culture/lucyjones/100045434/australians-not-brits-are-the-worst-dressed-nation/
    Defend your honour.

  185. suffolkboy says:

    Now here’s an odd thing. While Googling for “global warming widely accepted specification students edexcel” I stumbled upon. It’s taken from a specimen oral test A2 Unit 3, that is to say, an A-level oral exam in French. Oh the irony! An English exam, being oral French, and the student is discussing the pros and cons of nuclear energy and its use as a means to fight against global warming. Doubtless good preparation for arguing the case with Chris Huhne (who, don’t forget, has a diploma from Alliance Française in teaching French).

    The teacher/examiner then asks a transitional question about Iran and nuclear energy and weaponry.
    This might be considered almost too close to the initial issue, but the discussion is soon steered towards
    the general pros and cons of nuclear energy and its use as a means to fight against global warming.
    Natural links are used thereafter to consider the issues of renewable energy sources, bio-fuels, and
    personal responsibility in matters of ecology. Throughout this conversation, the teacher/examiner
    maintains a mildly challenging stance, always responding to what the candidate says.
    The discussion is brought to a close after 12 minutes 30 seconds.
    Quote ends

  186. dirlada says:

    Sure, I’ll put something together if it would be of interest. For the moment, at 37 degrees, the pool is calling – yes, I know it sounds like a cliche of expat life, but swimming is the only exercise tolerable in this heat. The sound of summer here is the murmur of conversation with the gentle splashing of pool water late into the night.

  187. dirlada says:

    suffolkboy 12.55

    the quote

  188. ScouseBilly says:

    Amerioque, I once wrote a programme to predict the English and Scottish football scores. It worked well and I made a modest return over a couple of years. But the reason I made money, was that I had a reasonably good handle on the true probablities for each game. I then indexed my set of probabilities against the implied probabilities given by the bookmakers odds. By making permutation bets using this index of “best value” matches I did ok. In other words the bookmakers distort the true probabilities by hedging their position with regard to the more popular teams/banker ties etc. I would never suggest “my model” was really good at predicting the results – just exploiting the margins left by other punters. As for climate, even if you knew all the most salient parameters, you just don’t have the accurate measurments over relevant timescales to even make a start. As the VP of audience research at MTV Neworks once told me, “what we do is all smoke and mirrors”.

  189. scud1 says:

    ‘The story of Phil Jones and the CRU files.’

    It’s the morning of November the 18th 2009. A large room shaped like a piece of cheese somewhere in East Anglia reverberates to an almighty kerfuffle.

    ‘What are we going to do? What are we going to do…?’

    ‘Don’t know Bob. Try to relax a little. Well just have to wait till Phil turns up.’

    ‘Relax?…Relax? I can’t bloody relax. We’re screwed I’m telling yer…screwed.’

    Bob Tindall thrusts an index finger at his computer monitor.

    ‘Look! It’s already out there. The bastards are copying and linking all over the shop. Even the fucking Eskimos know…we’re screwed Mike…screwed.’

    ‘Calm down Bob. Phil will know what to do.’

    ‘What can Phil do? His name’s all over it.’

    Ten minutes later the double swing doors open and in walks Dr. Phillip Jones or Jonesy as he’s affectionately known to ‘the crew’.
    Blissfully unaware of what has happened, Jonesy stops, scratches his head and gazes in bemusement at the collective, horrified expression of his subordinates.


    Unable to contain the adrenaline coursing through his veins, Bob Tindall grasps some papers from his desk and rushes over to the now clearly worried Dr.

    ‘Our emails Jonesy…our emails!’

    Bob Tindall thrusts his recently printed copies towards Phil Jones’s chest.

    ‘Err…What about them Bob?’

    ‘Look where I found these.’

    Phil looks at Bob with open mouthed concern and slowly removes his spectacles. Taking the clutch of papers from Bob’s quivering right hand, he turns them and begins to read the first, following the lines of text with one stem of his glasses and mumbling the words aloud… ‘Just sent loads of station data to Scott. Make sure he documents everything better this time! And don’t leave stuff lying around on ftp sites – you never know who is trawling them. The two MMs have been after the CRU station data for years.’

    Jonesy lets the papers flop by his side and smiles ruefully.

    ‘Oh never mind this Bob. Nothing to worry about.’
    ‘No…look where I found them Phil…look where I found them.’

    Jonesy raises his arm again and re-reads the title that he’d subconsciously missed… ‘The Airvent…the AIRVENT!…That’s a bloody denier site. How the freakin’ FUCK did they get hold of THIS?’

    The normally mild mannered professor raises the pages skyward and scans his dumbstruck audience through narrowing, accusing eyes.




    ‘We reckon it had to be Larry.’

    ‘Larry?…who the bastard is Larry?’

    ‘You know. That part time computer programmer bloke we had in. Left about six weeks ago.’

    ‘Oh fuck…HIM! Knew we hadn’t done enough background. Shit, shit….shitting shit.’

    Closing his eyes and sighing deeply, Jonesy clasps his forehead and whispers …‘How many?’

    ‘Err…more than a thousand. Plus the code.’

    ‘The code?’

    ‘Afraid so Jonesy…what are we going to do?’

    ‘Fucked if I know.’

    Ten minutes later the good Dr. is at his desk staring worriedly at his telephone, mulling over his lines to Gordon.
    At last satisfied he shakily picks up the receiver.

    ‘Oh hello. Is that you Sarah?’
    ‘Aye…who’s calling?’
    ‘Its Phil…Phil Jones.’
    ‘Och Jonesy. How ya doin’? Haven’t seen you in ages.’
    ‘Err…ok I guess Sarah. Is your other half in? Got a bit of a crisis on our hands.’
    ‘Aye he is Phil…Crisis? He he. Is the world going ta be burnt to a wee crisp before the week is oot?’
    ‘Ahh…you’re a bonny lass. No, just a bit of an internal issue that’s all.’
    ‘Och. Glad to hear it…but be warned. He got oot the wrong side o the bed this morning. Flung his sporran oot the window before he’d even got oot his pyjamas.’
    ‘Oh Jesus.’
    ‘Aye…but don’t worry aboot it Phil, sure he’ll be fine with ye. Hang on a wee while, I’ll see if I can find ‘im.’
    ‘Thanks Sarah.’

    Phil twiddles at the chord of his telephone and finger taps his desk nervously.

    ‘Hello Gordon…its Phil, Phil Jones at the CRU.’
    ‘I noo. The misses tawld me.’
    ‘Err…yes. Err Gordon, bit of a things happened.’
    ‘Doon’t tell me we’ve only forty days…I’ve already written fifty into ma speech. Ho ho ho hhoo.’
    ‘Err yeah, very good Gordon. Umm…no, it’s not that.’
    ‘No…err…umm, we’ve had a bit of a security issue.’

    The next day, various top ranking Labour party ministers, Jonesy and the PM are seated around the magnificent mahogany meeting table of N010. Gordon sits with his back hunched towards the grand fire place, his heavy head supported between both hands as he mulls and mutters over a thick pile of papers.
    Phil sits directly opposite, grinding his buttocks with tension…the full horror of the implications of the correspondence having finally sunk in.
    The Prime Minister raises his head and interlocks his chubby fingers.

    ‘Och. Phil ma boots…ma cup a runneth over eh Jonesy? Should o taken a career in pawlatics sted of pissin’ aroond with the weather.’

    Slightly muted laughter strikes up around the table.

    ‘Aye. A right bonny Sassie…should have ye as home secretary.’
    ‘Err…yes err, thanks for the offer Gordon but, but what about the press and the blogosphere?’
    ‘Och the press! We are the press Jonesy…and what the fawks a blogosphere? I thought ye concerned yeeself with artmosphere…Haw haw hoch hoch.’

    Jonesy relaxes at the surprisingly light-hearted mood.
    Having not slept a wink at the thought of his impending dawn execution he removes his glasses from his tired eyes and gives them a quick rub with the end of his tie. He chuckles quietly and takes a gulp of water.

    ‘Err…so…err, have we got a plan then Gordon?’
    ‘A plan Jonesy?’
    ‘Aye…err sorry…yes, a plan.’

    ‘Och, luke. Ye worries too much. We’ll just have te go through the motions that’s all…talking of which, I’ve a full size caber that needs tossin. I’ll leave yee with ma not so trusted secretary ta make the world a wee bit nippier Ed here.’

    The prime minister half levers himself out of his chair and stares at Jonesy momentarily.

    ‘Ach…not to worry Phil ma laddy. We’ll be putting ye on gardening leave for a wee while…go on hawliday or summat. Lukes like ye needs a good break anyways.’

    With this the Prime Minister gets up and walks out.
    30 seconds later there comes the drone of bagpipes rumbling around the spacious interior of N0 10.
    Ed Milliband’s eyes dart left and right at the sound, his curiously asymmetrical mouth twitching as if trying to suppress a laugh. Quickly, Ed composes himself and fixes his gaze upon Jonesy.

    ‘Plan Phil.’

    ‘Yes Ed?’

    ‘Is as follows…’

    Jonesy cranes forward and cocks his head to one side.
    He’d always found it difficult to fully comprehend the secretary for energy and climate change speech impediment. It sounded to Phil as if he were permanently plastered whilst chewing on a lump of coal. ‘Is as follows’ sounded to Jonesy like ‘Eeth ath wallowths’.

    ‘Sorry…what was that Ed?’

    Ed Milliband disengages his gaze and silences his subject with a gently raised right hand then crosses his arms and stares intently at the papers in front of him.

    ‘Thdandard pwotheedure.’


    ‘Thdandard pwotheedure…line of enquirieths. We think thwee thood work sthtarting with a parthliamentary one, then a thienth one, lapped up with a thought of arthical one.’


    Later that afternoon Jonesy is back at his desk. The CRU is a scene of near total, panic stricken chaos. Staff are running, paper is scattered left right and centre, the gentle hum of shredding machines almost completely drowned out by the constant ring of telephones.

    ‘What did they say Jonesy…what did they say?’

    Bob Tindall wipes his brow, his chest noticeably heaving as if he’d just completed a half marathon.

    ‘Relax Bob…please! You’re going to do yourself some serious damage.’

    Jonesy leans back in his chair and puts his hands behind his head and smiles.

    ‘What you doing out there anyway? Sounds like the Russians have just arrived at Hitler’s bunker.’
    ‘Look Bob, there’s nothing to worry about. In fact I can’t believe that I lost any sleep over it.’
    ‘Bob. You’re not thinking laterally.’
    ‘Laterally? No, I’m not. I’m thinking we’re fucking fucked.’
    ‘Yes, well…you always did have this…oh God we’re all doomed…thing about you. Reason why we hired you in the first place. Now…tell me whose been paying our bills and funding our jollies for all these years.’
    ‘The government.’
    ‘Very good Bob though I’d make that plural. And what have these governments instructed us to provide in return?’
    ‘Err…Proof of AGW.’
    ‘And how do we do that Bob?’
    ‘Err…well, by any means necessary.’
    ‘And the purpose is?’

    Bob Tindall’s shoulders visibly sag as his expression begins to change from one of abject terror to a man that’s just realised his own stupidity.

    ‘Oh shit…of course! Oh Jesus. You know sometimes Jonesy I just forget what we’re really all about.’

    Bob’s brow then immediately furrows again.

    ‘Yeah but what about the press…they’re gonna be over us like a rash.’

    ‘You think? With just a couple of weeks till Copenhagen? Nah Bob…With CP pulling the strings they‘ll never allow it. Besides, who did you have in mind? They’ve all been onside for over a couple of decades now…specially our friends at the beeb…none of ‘em are going to be speeding out of the traps to look like dicks.
    Ed reckons maybe just a token…you know, really low key, late night stuff to placate till their official investigations clear us of any wrong doing.’

    ‘What about the net and all those denier sites though?’
    ‘Oh sod ‘em. They’ve been smeared as crackpots long ago…plenty of counter to that.’

    ‘Ah God. I feel like a proper prat now Jonesy. Umm, shall I tell them to stop shredding?’
    ‘Nah…shred away. What we don’t have we can’t give…right?’
    ‘Ok cool. What’s your immediate plans then?’
    ‘Ha ha…you’ll like this Bobby my boy. I’m leaving…temporarily. Been promised a nice fat envelope on top of full pay. Got to stick around here till January sometime for the first ‘inquiry’, then I thought a few months cruising the Caribbean with the misses.’

    ‘You lucky bastard.’

    And so it came to be.
    Jonesy had but one awkward moment with a parliament select committee but he was well prepared and pulled his ‘haunted man’ act off with aplomb from which he promptly buggered off to Mauritius having found a much sweeter looking break than any cruise around the Caribbean.
    Two other ‘in depth investigations’ occurred in his absence from which he was not only cleared but recommended (secretly) to be awarded the Nobel peace prize at or around the time of the London Olympics 2012.
    Jonesy is now happily back at his post, making stuff up and passing it off as science exactly as he had done before as the rest of the nation look forward with excitement to the lights going out.
    And everything was unhappy ever after.


    Apologies for the shite Scottish accent…err…and everything else.

  190. Pointman says:

    ScouseBilly July 30, 2010 at 1:06 am

    Billy, I’ve owned stock for a long time in two PLCs that cater to the gambling community. I love people with a ‘system’ …


  191. bjedwards says:

    For the majority of you still clutching to Al Gore’s 25-year old premise that climate sceince is “All politics, all the time”, a dose of reality about the actual science of climate change:

    “Phaeton’s Reins: The human hand in climate change”
    Dr. Kerry Emanuel


    Kerry Emanuel is a professor of meteorology at MIT and the author of Divine Wind: The History and Science of Hurricanes. In 2006 Time magazine recognized him as one of the world’s 100 most influential people.

  192. Pointman says:

    scud1 July 30, 2010 at 1:11 am

    Jeez Scud, that’s a blinder!


  193. Pointman says:

    Hey BJ,


  194. manonthemoor says:

    July 30, 2010 at 1:11 am

    You leave me speechless which as you may have observed does not happen often.

    Well done

    More more more please

  195. manonthemoor says:

    July 30, 2010 at 1:16 am

    ‘Page not found’ seems to sum up the true content of your link.

    I wait to be convinced you have any up to date links to demonstrate anything other than the AGW scam.

    How about the plankton in the sea or earth quakes on the moon?

    Even a view of Plan B would be good!

    Have you selected your cave and provisions yet?

  196. manonthemoor says:

    Just ‘hooked’from JD site

    just now
    “Students will be assessed on their ability to discuss how the idea of global warming went from a single scientist’s idea to a widely accepted theory”.

    How will you they be assessed on their ability to discuss?”‘

    As our education system has degenerated into a qualifications industry, it has become cynical and dishonest.
    AGW lies are not the only ‘turds floating in the water tank’, as I bet you are aware.
    However, to answer the above specific query, a decent Teacher will tell the truth.

    1) Explain exactly what the question is doing;

    “This question is designed to nurture an illogical and unthinking acceptance of the myth of AGW as created by those who, often for financial reasons, claim to believe in it.”

    2) Then explain what the ‘examiner’ expects and why;

    “By maintaining an artificial discourse between those who

    A) already know the TRUTH of AGW (the scientist & his idea).
    B) are as yet ignorant of the truth and only need to educated in the new ‘post-normal’ science

    ….the examiner is creating a dishonest ‘choice’ or ‘debate’.

    3) Explain how to achieve high marks.

    “Regardless of the truth, these are the phrases and key words that will score you marks.
    You are not being asked to think.
    You are not being asked to reason.
    Instead, you are being rewarded for repeating the ‘Official Version’.
    It’s a shame but there it is.
    Your job is not to change the World (yet) but to operate successfully within it. So we’ll give them their standard answer.
    Why not ?”

    Loads more to add ‘suffolkboy’, but how’s that for starters ?

  197. Pointman says:

    manonthemoor July 30, 2010 at 1:40 am

    Wouldn’t bother MOTM. He’s a post and run merchant.


  198. manonthemoor says:

    July 30, 2010 at 1:48 am

    The silence is Golden after he has run from the room through the exit door.

    Did not even get his coat off

  199. Locusts says:

    If bje were a caveman….

    The sun was beginning to set, and had taken on an amber hue. A mild wind was blowing, disturbing his shoulder length hair. He was lithe with finely toned muscles attuned to a life of running. He glanced to his left and perched himself on the rock there. Tired. He thought. Food, need Food. He sat for a while, slightly angling his head every now and then, as if he were enjoying the breeze.

    Lying down, his feet dangling over the edge of the rock, he watched the rock’s shadow slowly lengthen and weaken. No good. Must go home. But he was lost, having lost track of his direction when tracking a deer several hours ago. The deer had got away, and he was too tired to attempt to follow the meandering track they had created back home.

    A hare hopped nearby, only a few feet away from his head, and nibbled on the grass. He could just see it out of the corner of his eye. His left hand searched silently for some kind of pebble or stone; but there was nothing, just bare rock. He sighed. The hare raised up on to its hind legs, ears to attention, sniffed the air, and then hopped away.

    He slid off the rock and grabbed a nearby daisy and bit off the head, and spat it out again. Squatted down, he looked around again. Hungry. The thought would not go away. There was no pain yet, but the warning signs were there.

    He looked towards the nearest tree. It was still there by the thick roots, his flint, which he had thrown at the tree in a fit of anger before. How long? The sun had been higher then, maybe a palm’s width higher. He walked over and picked it up. His flint. It’s familiar contours pressed reassuringly into his hand.

    The wind, blowing stronger now, was robbing the ground of its warmth. He suppressed a shiver, and gripped the flint more tightly in his hand. There it was again. The hare. Halfway between himself and a slender birch. Its back to him, but its ears cocked. After slowly preparing himself, he lunged at it. Again, it hopped away and out of sight.

    He brushed the debris from his hands and walked downhill. There was a stream not too far away, a small one by the sound of it. He found it after not too long, it was an arms width across; the water, fresh and inviting, bounced from pebble to pebble before finding the main current and flowing downstream. He drank heavily and threw water over his face. Then he squeezed it out of his dripping beard and sat down.

  200. Pointman says:

    manonthemoor July 30, 2010 at 1:55 am

    “Did not even get his coat off”

    Given his name, be thankful he didn’t have your strides off …


  201. bjedwards says:


    I never expected climate science deniers like you to be able to find the link all by yourself.

    But since you’ve admitted you never read it, we can safely add you as a firm Al Gorist.

    Don’t let the door of reality slam you on the backside:

    Click to access Kerry%20Emanuel_%20Phaeton%27s%20Reins.pdf

  202. ScouseBilly says:

    Pointy. lol. Systems only “work” when you understand the fundamental properties of the market/field in which they perform. Steve Davis’ system “worked”, Alex Higgins’ rarely but I know which one I preferred to see in action. If anyone knows where to get a free data set of all last season’s matches, I could recreate my system 😉

  203. manonthemoor says:

    July 30, 2010 at 2:15 am

    That document was written four years ago, almost the MWP.

    I asked for a recent link since Copenhagen fiasco

    The world is different now perhaps you have not noticed

  204. fenbeagle says:

    Scud1……. Were did you get that tape!?

  205. scud1 says:

    Hi Crown.

    Your link is bloody hilarious… “The global population of microscopic plants that float in ocean water and support most marine life has declined by 1 per cent every year since 1899.” Err, so it’s actually gone into a negative then.
    All suitably documented by ‘Boris Worm’ and his colleagues.
    NS is a total joke…

  206. fenbeagle says:


    ….Tricky things Hares. You have to wear them down.

  207. scud1 says:

    Hello Fen

    I don’t think I got a chance to congratulate you on your stories and absolutely brilliant illustrations…really excellent stuff and thank you for sharing.
    Ahh…the tapes! I’m still negotiating.

    Pointman and MOTM…In for chat this evening?

  208. ScouseBilly says:

    Scud, in fairness 1% decline every year will never even reach zero let alone become negative.

  209. Pointman says:

    I see we’ve had another visit from the post and run merchant. Given your initials BJ and your big mouth, schooldays must have been Hell – even in Utah. It probably explains you lack of interpersonal skills. We’ll be your friends though BJ. We need a pet Greenie.


  210. Amanda says:

    Locusts: No, didn’t send him any pictures of me, wet dry or in between. However, you’ve given me an idea….

    By the way, I disagree rather strongly with Old Toad’s cheerleading assertion that Ozboy’s is an adjunct site to JD’s Telegraph blog (as opposed to JD’s personal blog). (You’d think that one blog would be enough for any person — would be for me!)

    This site may have started that way, as a kind of satellite, but I think it’s outgrown that phase. In my view, LibertyGibbert is a fully functioning, autonomous and successful blog in its own right.

    I’m sure I’m not the only one that scarcely visits the DT blogs these days but frequently turns up here (no kidding!). Old Toad will protest that he’s not talking about floozies like me, but rather about those knowledgeable and committed to killing the AGW beast (that is my presumption, anyway). To which I would respond that I certainly AM knowledgeable and committed (as Delingpole himself I’m sure would agree), just much more on the political side of the issue than the scientific side of the issue — as is Msher, by the way. And the whole point of Delingpole’s articles since before Christmas is that we can discuss science all we like (and I have learned from the discussions), but the driving factor in this is political-economic rather than phenomenal: the root cause of AGW panic/promotion is a profoundly anti-modern and anti-Western worldview. I understand that at least as well as anybody, and I hang out here on Ozboy’s site not James’s. And forgetting about myself, all the people on this site with engineering or science know-how tend to talk among themselves without reference to what’s happening or not happening on James’s blog. In fact most of the references to DT lately have simply been of the head-shaking, too-bad-it-went-belly-up variety. Old Toad doesn’t want to know this, but basically, we’ve moved on.

  211. Amanda says:

    Are you going to feed the pet greenie, Pointman? I bet you will.

  212. Locusts says:


    It wasn’t intentional, but my caveman seems to be a bit Generation X. So I decided to dedicate him to 吹笛bjedwards. I’ll give him a shout about having to knacker the buggers out. He could do with some advice.

  213. scud1 says:

    Hi Billy.

    Yeah, I agree that you can’t have negative amounts of microscopic plants but wouldn’t a reduction by 1% for each year of 112 years = 0?
    Dunno…maths never really was my bag.

  214. Amanda says:

    Locusts: About the Chinese: interesting comments, and you clearly know a lot more about their culture/politics than I do. What I am fairly certain of — nothing really contradicts it — is that the individual is absolutely inferior in Chinese society to ‘the man in charge’ or the ruling power, whoever or whatever that is. No real sense of the dignity of freedom, or that certain human needs should be sovereign and offered political protection. In other words, their consitution (I refer to no particular document or documents) is nothing like ours. One feels that life is too plentiful over there to be anything but cheap. A chronic problem militating against human happiness: Russia is another place with that fundamental problem of low ideals and high misery.

  215. bjedwards says:

    Manothemoor, planting his foot firmly in his mouth, wrote:

    “That document was written four years ago, almost the MWP.”

    Yet you cannot refute it. That is the nature of your denialism. That is why none of you can actually explain why you would be against the overwhelming research demonstrating that AGW is real.

    Like I wrote, you all follow Al Gore’s dictum, that climate sceince is “all politics, all the time.” You can’t deal with the science.

  216. bjedwards says:

    Pointman, flummoxed by climate science he doesn’t like, added his name to the list of deniers, heading straight for the dust bin of history.

    Is it any wonder you you deniers get the derision you ask for?

  217. Locusts says:

    Don’t even get me started on Russians!

  218. scud1 says:

    Will (will8ace?) posted this link over at JD’s…


    Check the comments…boy, do these blokes like flinging mud!

  219. Locusts says:


    Even if the science were completely true, geopolitics will more than likely render all such efforts not just worthless, but terribly counterproductive.

    A different scenario to AGW:
    Nukes today are more powerful than they were all those years ago. 4 of them is all it will take, and the British Isles will be bye bye. Australia, maybe a few more, big country, but an irritatingly huge amount of it is desert.
    All of these countries that now have nuclear technology, but have never had an opportunity to play with it. So frustrating.

  220. ScouseBilly says:

    Scud, you are taking 1% off a 100 leaving 99 then you take 1% off 99 (i.e. -.99) to give 98.01 and so forth – it’s just a form of (negative) compound interest.

  221. ScouseBilly says:

    Blow job, less of the insults – how about your plan B?

  222. Pointman says:

    Looks like the Bar & Grill has got itself a pet Greenie. Shall we gimp him up? BJ the Gimp. We can rattle his chain when we want a laugh.


  223. scud1 I thought people would like that one, the New scientist used to be very good but like a lot of journals and science magazines it seems to have been infiltrated by post normal science freaks, for a while there the NS seemed to be flip flopping on the issue now it’s everything causes global warming. Your toast got burnt blame Global warming.

  224. amanda as for the DT I still use it but don’t visit James D’s as much because it is hard to discuss things now or argue. I have noticed Damian T upping the ante on his own blogs and taking a few risks the blogging numbers must have been falling badly.

  225. Pointman says:

    Asymptotic curve.


  226. ScouseBilly says:

    Scud, that link of Will’s is hilarious:

    “The greenpeace wanker both sounds and looks like he fagged for Dave at Eton.” lmao

  227. pointman you seem to know a lot about chains and gimp masks, hobby of yours?

  228. Pointman says:

    I’m very broadminded Crown. Aren’t you?


  229. suffolkboy says:

    @dirlada at July 30, 2010 at 1:02 am
    I forgot to paste the URL:

    Click to access french-org.pdf

    (Page 30 of the PDF, page number 24 displayed)

  230. scud1 says:


    Gotcha…Thanks for that. Still a crap article though.

  231. pointman nah I’m a prude I keep my socks on, as the wise man said the difference between kinkiness and perversion is using a feather as opposed to the whole chicken.

  232. Pointman says:

    Chicken? I moved up to Ostriches ages ago. You need to get out and around a bit more.


  233. Old Toad says:

    Pointman, MOTM et al. I hope you saw the 2 videos that Guido Fawkes posted on his blog, one of Cameron addressing Greenpeace and the other of Huhne addressing a rally some time ago. Those 2 are absolute dynamite. After 3 almighty gaffes (see the Garland cartoon in to-day’s DT) you begin to realise what a total prat we have for a PM. Various apologists are admiring his ‘honesty’ , what else can they say ? If you go home and call your wife a ‘fucking old cow’ there could be those who’ll agree, but God, you’ll pay for it before long.
    ‘Conservativehome’s’ acknowledgement of the JD blog is a healthy sign. Some Tories might just check it out. If 107.31 Conservative MP’s are indeed climate sceptics, one of them MUST surely open his/her mouth , eventually.
    This particular Emperor is losing his ‘clothes’ very rapidly.

  234. suffolkboy says:

    My neighbours chez Booker are having a bit of a domestic. The walls round my place are a bit thin so I had to leave home and come here for a coffee and flapjack.

  235. CriticalThinker says:

    Hi Oz
    Thanks for the welcome on your last blog, nice place you’ve got here.
    Feels oddly familiar.

  236. Ozboy says:

    Yet another marvellous illustration by Fenbeagle here: “Chris The Huhne”

    Note I’ve had to spread Fen’s Random Sketchings onto several pages due to file size considerations; you can still leave Fen comments on the page link above.

  237. fenbeagle says:

    Thanks Oz
    That works
    ….And there came a man, mightier than the God King Emperor, and his image was

  238. Old Toad says:

    Re my post above. You have to click on the ‘comments’ to Guido’s Blog to see these 2 videos, but they are incredible. Cameron REALLY is that gullible where the greens are concerned. Huhne is seen at a Climate Change rally in Dec 2007 backing Obama and decrying Labour. What a twat, no wonder they work so well together !

  239. tony_opmoc says:

    I was invited to post here early this morning by Scouse_Billy.

    God knows why he invited me.

    I would just like to say, that everyone needs to remember what it was like when you were 3 years old, and you were having lots of fun, with your first girlfriend…

    Whilst there are times in life where you have to work really hard to actually achieve anything, sometimes you just have to switch off to all the pressures of this mad world…

    And do something even more outrageous…

    Even when you are a really old sod like me

    Providing you are not causng anyone else any harm…

    Of course your first priority is to be nice to people.. but sometimes it is perfectly O.K. to say No.. when someone tries to bum a fag off you and you don’t feel like giving him one – as happenned this afternoon…

    He came out with how he had been in hospital for the last 30 years…

    I said well that is probably because of your smoking…

    He said no I have been in a mental hospital for the last 30 years..

    I said good on yer mate – but I’m still not going to give you a cigarette…

    He had one off someone else in less than 5 minutes.

    I thought – I really like this town (it was really posh)

    They do free cigarettes here

    All you have to do is ask

    Anyway what I was going to say…

    Is behave like the Child you were when you were Three years old

    And have a Good Time

    Love & Peace,


  240. Pointman says:

    Old Toad July 30, 2010 at 4:12 am

    Toad, gowon, admit it, you’re his Dad aren’t you?


  241. tony_opmoc says:

    “scud1 says:
    July 30, 2010 at 1:11 am ”

    That was fucking hilarious..well the first few paragraphs were.. I will read the rest later.

    I actually got slagged off by some tosser last week on the Independent or the Telegraph…

    He more or less said

    You are using too many words..

    I referred him to the bloke who slagged off Mozart for using too many notes.


  242. dirlada says:

    Who is this bjedwards thingy?

  243. suffolkboy says:

    @MOM July 30, 2010 at 1:47 am
    regarding “displaynameagain” on the Delingpole blog.
    The missing link is the Hodder (school textbook publisher) site:
    where it appears on Page 1 Lesson 1 Line 3 (first page of Word file).

  244. suffolkboy says:

    @suffolkboy July 30, 2010 at 5:26 am
    or even:
    (if this fools the gremlin that just mangled my hard-fought-for URL by turning the single quote round).

  245. bjedwards says:

    Dirlada childishly wrote for all to see:

    “Who is this bjedwards thingy?”

    I am happy to report that I am one of many who outs denialists of all sorts Ahh – a BELIEVER: excellent – Oz, from climate science deniers, Creationists, 9/11 “Truthers”, round-earth deniers to moon-landing deniers and Holocaust Deniers.

    Denial is denial is denial. The methodology, tactics, and political motivation are the same for all denial movements; only the subject matters differ.

  246. ScouseBilly says:

    With initials like BJ it seems you’ll swallow anything…

  247. ScouseBilly says:

    Hi Tony, good to see you. I’m just taking a half-time break from watching Liverpool on an Irish subscription channel via Poland on sopcast 😉

  248. NoIdea says:

    Here I am, foot in mouth, childishly writing for all to see, the cat has my tongue…

    Back wards bed wetter’s bed wards bad words bjedwards?

    I wish to thank BJ Edwards, the Author/Editor of these Cut and Paste contribution to our corporate training courses we are running here in Australia within our company of flummoxed fools and structures of realism.

    Come back izen please, this dull fool witters on about “like I wrote” while cut and pasting so badly it appears that it is spouting the bullshit it pretends that it has read.
    For some strange reason this blow hard “blow job” seems to think “the majority of you still clutching to Al Gore’s”…. I could not read any further, the thought of clutching anything remotely Al Gore sounds disgusting. (I glanced back and I saw Al Gore’s dictum! The horror!)

    So I am to be consigned to the deniers dust bin of history for being a denier of what?
    And to be honest BJE we asked for some entertaining derision, not trivial cut n pester.
    Can you do better BJE?


  249. tony_opmoc says:

    Well, I am a convert. I actually used to believe in all this official government shit. I had a hint that everything was not as it should be when I got stoned out of my brains for 6 months in 1985…

    But it was only a temporary thing. In 1985 it seemed like all the news was made up, and the entire world was completely fucking mad.

    But the psychiatrist said to me – no its you that are fucking mad, so I thought it couldn’t possibly be true that the entire world was fucking mad, and that it must be me. So cos they wouldn’t let me back into work, until I took his anti-psychotic pills, and gave up the cannabis, I took his anti-psychotic pills and gave up the cannabis – and went back to work feeling extremely depressed.

    I now realise 25 years later, that I was correct in 1985. The entire world was not only fucking mad then, it is 10 times worse now…

    I mean FFS

    Most people believe in complete fucking nonsense

    They even believe that the Americans landed on the Moon – which of course I did too – cos I saw it live on TV…

    But if you check out Dave’s site – you will realise that even that was bollocks



  250. bjedwards we are not in denial we are in touch with reality as the science has taken a lot of us to. Science is that thing real scientists do using real data that has not been manipulated or cherry picked then fed into a computer that no matter how good you tweak the program will get next years weather totally wrong because you just can’t know all the little things that feed back into the real system. For years these models even ignored the oceans contribution to the climate.
    The next 30 years are going to be generally cooler than we have seen for a while I could tell you why but you wouldn’t understand as it involves knowing about regular climate cycles in the Earths weather.

  251. orkneylad says:

    Captain BJ…….fighting for justice against the forces of denial…….do you have to wear a cape & exo-pants for that kinda deal?


  252. Edward. says:

    bjedwards says:
    July 30, 2010 at 5:40 am

    You come across as a frightened little man/whatever, open your mind and see the light and it is solar, primordial and magnificent in its majestic luminosity.
    The Ancients saw it, the great stones of Stonehenge were placed to celebrate not the summer solstice but the rebirth and the winter solstice, a time of renewal and the start of a new year.
    The Mayans and Ancient Eygptians knew it too, they had their Sun Gods and realised the Sun was all, if it was not in the sky and failed the harvest then they would starve thus it was revered and sacrifice made to it in reverential homage.
    The Ancients knew something that we have forgotten in our arrogance, we do not influence climate, the solar cycles do, if it were not for the sun, the earth would be a barren rock.
    This is the trouble with alarmists, you do not see the bigger picture, man’s pathetic input of a trace gas is not driving climate temperatures to believe that is to believe in faeries at the bottom of the garden, once again all the guff pumped out about CO2 warming the planet is hot air.
    One of the great pillars of AGW is the feedback factor…….it doesn’t exist BJE – so all of the AGW idea falls flat on its face straight away.
    We have experienced some gentle background warming since the little ice age and very welcome it has been for our species but it is entirely natural, there is no and never has been any signs of runaway global warming, there is no science at all in MM CO2e being responsible for the recent mild natural warming.
    We are however on the cusp of a considerable downturn in temperatures, SST temps will fall off a cliff face in the La Nina cooling as the PDO enters a cooling phase, get ready for the end of AGW and prepare to eat humble pie s**t.


  253. Old Toad says:

    Pointman. Some people in the blogosphere would be surprised that he had one !

  254. bjedwards says:

    Well, they said over at the comments sections of a particularly offensive climate science denier (Christopher “Bullocks” Booker) that the real kooky deniers were here.

    They were right about that.

  255. tony_opmoc says:

    And so I am having a few problems with my main PC in getting a new 8GB card to work (hint – buy Sandisk – cos they give a lifetime guarantee – and if it fucks up – which mine did – they will give you a replacement – if you are intelligent enough to follow the entire procedure – most people will give up at the first hurdle – but if someone promises something to me -especially if it is a large corporate company – I will go as far as really embarrassing the CEO in public – to get my lifetime guarantee)

    I am not blaming Sandisk – for the fact that my PC is probably virus ridden – except – even all the anti Aids stuff says it doesn’t even have HIV…

    So I manage to get my almost pure Laptop back from my dayghter who had borrowed it for a couple of days…

    Before I had even logged on to it – it says

    Tony – you have 427 messages waiting for you…

    WTF has my Daughter Been Doing on My Laptop?

    No wonder it won’t play my High Definition Videos – Which I took With My Own High Definition Camera – Cleanly Any More


  256. orkneylad says:

    LMFAO bj you are one serious fruitloop!
    Has manmade pollution in the form of carbon dioxide (CO2) and other gases caused a runaway Greenhouse Effect and Global Warming?

    1. The idea that man-made pollution is responsible for global warming is not supported by historical fact. The period known as the Holocene Maximum is a good example– so-named because it was the hottest period in human history. The interesting thing is this period occurred approximately 7500 to 4000 years B.P. (before present)– long before humans invented industrial pollution.

    2. CO2 in our atmosphere has been increasing steadily for the last 18,000 years– long before humans invented smokestacks. Unless you count campfires and intestinal gas, man played no role in the pre-industrial increases.

    As illustrated in the Ice Core data from the Soviet Station Vostok, CO2 concentrations in earth’s atmosphere move with temperature. Both temperatures and CO2 have been on the increase for 18,000 years. Interestingly, CO2 lags an average of about 800 years behind the temperature changes– confirming that CO2 is not a primary driver of the temperature changes.

    3. Total human contributions to greenhouse gases account for only about 0.28% of the “greenhouse effect”. Anthropogenic (man-made) carbon dioxide (CO2) comprises about 0.117% of this total, and man-made sources of other gases ( methane, nitrous oxide (NOX), other misc. gases) contributes another 0.163%.

    Approximately 99.72% of the “greenhouse effect” is due to natural causes — mostly water vapor and traces of other gases, which we can do nothing at all about. Eliminating human activity altogether would have little impact on climate change.
    Incidentally, earth’s temperature and CO2 levels today have reached levels similar to a previous interglacial cycle of 120,000 – 140,000 years ago. From beginning to end this cycle lasted about 20,000 years. This is known as the Eemian Interglacial Period and the earth returned to a full-fledged ice age immediately afterward.

    4. If global warming is caused by CO2 in the atmosphere then does CO2 also cause increased sun activity too?
    [Variations in sun activity are generally proportional to both variations in atmospheric CO2 and atmospheric temperature].

    Put another way, rising Earth temperatures and increasing CO2 are “effects” and our own Sun the “cause”.
    The case for a “greenhouse problem” is made by environmentalists, news anchormen , and special interests who make inaccurate and misleading statements about global warming and climate change. Even though people may be sceptical of such rhetoric initially, after awhile people start believing it must be true because we hear it so often.

    “It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
    Giordano Bruno

  257. Edward. says:

    scud1 says:
    July 30, 2010 at 1:11 am

    Fabulous my friend, let it rip scud1!


    Thank you sir, a good post.
    It has even more “variables” – some not even suspected – than horseracing, which has been followed intensely by millions of turfgoers over many, many years !
    What can I say but exactly.

    Locusts says:
    July 30, 2010 at 1:58 am

    You are a gent of considerable wit sir, long may it continue, you must maintain this excellent standard, albeit a hard act to follow.

    @Old Toad,

    Cast iron is a child man, he is like the DT cartoon (thurs) every time he opens his big gob – I cringe inside, how can anybody be so out of kilter/touch, he’s a dumbo and that’s the nicest possible way I can put it. A boy playing politics but still (just) preferable to the Socialists, though it is a close call.
    Junior partner he most definitely is, who steers the ship though?

    Amanda says:
    July 30, 2010 at 2:46 am

    You have encapsulated my feelings about this site, I do think now that we have moved on. The posters are just very good we are building up a reservoir of different expertise it is all to the good, wish we could talk to some South Americans or Africans too.


  258. Edward. says:

    Nicely OL.

    Well said.


  259. izen says:

    @- Noidea –
    …”I have NEVER “denied” that our atmosphere is providing the mechanisms of heat transfer and insulation that combined with the solar input keep us all warmer or colder.
    I most certainly DO DENY that CO2, manmade or otherwise will ever compete with the atmospheric blanket effect of the rest of the atmosphere especially the dihydrogen monoxide (H2O) content.”

    I am heartened to see from the first statement that you are at least that far in contact with material reality.
    Unfortunately your second statement clearly contradicts the first !

    Of course our atmosphere and ALL its components provides the insulation and heat transfer that keeps the surface that little bit warmer than it would be without them…
    And each component of the atmosphere has its effect according to its physical properties….

    Co2 does not ‘compete’ with dihydrogen monoxide, it has an effect commensurate with its relative abundance and absorptive properties.
    Oxygen and Nitrogen are of course much more abundant than H2O but I notice that you did not make any comparison with THEIR influence, perhaps this indicates that you do have at least an inkling of why H2O and CO2 are key components of the process.

    Anyway, you follow this with a wonderful bit of purple prose in which I think I am depicted as a friendless hebophrenic and suggest two ‘experiments – of which more later – but then….

    Quote-“Why do these “great minds” all start their “thought experiments” with picturing the earth as something that it isn’t, in circumstances it cannot possibly be?
    I did notice with interest some facts have been exposed, as opposed to being ignored for a change.
    “the spectral intensity of the higher temperature radiation exceeds the value of the lower temperature radiation at every wavelength.” (In other words, IT IS THE SUN that decides.)”

    Its called reductionism and is a common technique in physics. Natural processes are analysed in their most basic, simple forms without any of the numerous extra factors that can obscure the underlying events. It works with relatively simple systems in physics, although it is usually impossible or inappropriate in biology…
    As to your second observation on the relative intensity of the sun and the earth emissions, you should have read a little further. At the Earth surface the emissions from the sun are diminished by the inverse square law to the point where the peak of the terrestrial surface emissions in the low IR (given it surface temp) far exceeds the solar flux in the same wavelengths – by about a thousand times.

    This point is crucial, the energy received from the sun is in a DIFFERENT part of the EM spectrum from the energy emitted from the earth(ocean) surface it warms.

    Quote-“PLEASE NOTE! They state EACH gas in the atmosphere, not just CO2!….
    This seems to suggest that CO2 cannot emit at a wavelength that could be absorbed by anything other than CO2, makes you wonder what the fuss is about, if it is only 0.04% of the atmosphere that is affected and it cannot affect any other gasses only the rest of the 0.04%… surely not?

    Don’t call me Shirley Knot….
    Yes each gas in the atmosphere has an effect, but oxygen and nitrogen are extremely poor absorbers of the IR energy emitted from the surface… they have to be warmed either by direct contact, or by conduction from other atmospheric components that DO absorb the surface emissions.
    The main two as you implicitly recognised earlier are H2O and CO2.
    H2O is dominant and is responsible for up to 90% of the absorption and warming of the surrounding atmosphere, but its level varies with ambient temperature and CO2 is responsible for 10%-20% of the absorption of surface emitted IR.
    This is not some theoretical or modeled assumption, it is the directly MEASURED result. I gave a link to Dave Edingburgh earlier that was about this very measurement, and I think it is covered, with graphs from that paper and others at the ‘science or doom’ site.

    In cold, dry air (and there is a lot of that at altitude) the CO2 may only be 0.04% of the atmosphere, but it is responsible for about 20% of the warming of the total atmosphere because of its absorption properties. Thousands of time more effective at absorbing surface emitted IR than oxygen or nitrogen, the IR energy it absorbs is then converted to thermal energy of the total atmosphere by molecular collisions.

    You propose two ‘experiment’.
    One involves the effect of adding more coats/blankets/bedding rags on the warming that can be derived from them.
    Yes the effect is NOT linear. It is logarithmic. It needs a doubling to get the same increase each time.
    So if one blanket gives you 1 degree of warming, it will take two blankets to give you another 1 degree and then four to give you another… and so on.
    This is why you get warming from increasing H2O or CO2 in the atmosphere, but you can’t get runaway warming…

    The second involves something complicated with fires, coats and sunlight to try and balance out perceived heat… it sounds complicated and full of confounding factors… but one aspect it fails to take into account is that the atmosphere is transparent to the spectra of energy coming in from the sun (well very nearly) but is substantially opaque to the spectra of energy emitted from the surface.

    Do any of these wonderful coats you wear have this property of transparency to sunlight, but block thermal radiation ?

    The sun beats down and heats the ground.
    Its spectra matching SB’s law.
    The earth emits its heat around
    matching SB without a flaw.

    The air absorbs the surface glow
    the water leads but there’s CO2
    Each warms the air by thermal flow
    measurement shows that its all true.

    Strange rituals using coats and fire
    Don’t make this wrong, you just perspire.

  260. Edward. says:

    bjedwards says:
    July 30, 2010 at 6:41 am
    For fuckwittedness we need only read your liquid excreta, or to drift over to the comment is free at the grauniad or indeed the love in at Realclimate, for the real imbeciles.
    Crying ‘Consensus!’ – is the redoubt of the scoundrel, dissimulators and con merchants.

  261. tony_opmoc says:


    I was telling the truth. The last time I posted on Craig’s website was a few weeks ago when I took my laptop up North…

    We had just bought her 86 year old Dad out of a Scoue Hospital – he was only there for about 12 hours…

    They fitted him a new ticker – Pacemaker…

    He came back home – as if nothing much had happenned…

    And so my wife got a phone call from him yesterday….

    They normally only phone at weekends when it is free…

    Now, they haven’t been to see us for nearly 10 years – when I took them both up Box Hill in the heat of the day…

    I kept saying there was a good pub at the top to keep them going…they made it to the ice cream van…

    So we thought they would never come back…

    But this New Ticker…

    They are coming to see us again….

    We both looked at each other and said

    “Oh Fuck”


  262. orkneylad says:

    Chicken Licken 1976:
    Idiot bird thinks sky falling down, gathers fowls, heads for palace, eaten by sly fox, cubs live happy ever after.

    Chicken Licken 2010:
    Clever birdy thinks sky falling down, gathers fowls, heads for palace, beats up sly fox & lives happy ever after.

    From zero to hero in one easy PC step…….can anyone see what’s wrong with this picture?

  263. orkneylad says:

    The sun beats down and heats the ground.
    Its spectra matching SB’s law.
    The earth emits its heat around
    matching SB without a flaw.

    Utter horseshit!

    Here’s the problem with the Stephan-Boltzmann constant: Satellite measurements indicate that the sun’s energy approaching the earth is 1366 watts per square meter. The amount reflected away is said to be 26%. The amount absorbed into the atmosphere is said to be 16%. (See NASA chart). That’s 1366 minus 26% minus 16% = 792 W/m2. That’s how much radiation would fall on a black asphalt surface at the equator at noon. The Stephan-Boltzmann constant indicates that in a dark basement, a concrete wall at 59°F (the global average temperature) would emit 390 W/m2. That’s 49% as much radiation emitted from a dark, cold basement as falls on a black surface at the equator. It isn’t happening.

    Night vision equipment shows that there is very little infrared radiation given off by normal temperature matter.

    The Stephan-Boltzmann Constant shows 459 watts per square meter being given off at room temperature of 27°C. That’s almost five 100 watt bulbs from half of a table top. Night vision equipment shows it isn’t happening.

    The Stephan-Boltzmann constant is this:

    5.67051 x 10-8 x K4

    This result is the number of watts per square meter of infrared radiation supposedly given off by matter at a temperature represented by K (degrees Kelvin, which is 273 + °C).

    For exactness, this calculation must include the emissivity, which means percent radiation which is blocked due to such things as reflection. But for nonmetalic surfaces, the emissivity is around 90-95%, which means it can be ignored for the rough estimates of nonmetals.

    At a normal temperature of 27°C (80°F), the calculated result without emissivity is 459 W/m2.

    At the assumed average temperature of the earth (15°C, 59°F), it’s 390 W/m2.

    At the freezing temperature of water (0°C, 32°F), it’s 315 W/m2.

    On a hot day of 37°C (98°F), it’s 524 W/m2.

    Normal temperature matter is not giving off that much infrared radiation.

    If freezing water were emitting and absorbing the heat of three 100 watt light bulbs per square meter, the heat would interfere with the freezing process. In some environments, water would freeze at 40°F, and elsewhere, it would freeze at 25°F depending upon how much environmental radiation there was at that location. The stability of the freezing temperature of water shows that there is not a significant amount of radiation being emitted and absorbed at that temperature.

  264. izen says:

    @-memoryvault –

    It comes as no surprise to find you are a devotee of some paranoid conspiracy involving a shadowy global cabal that plans to eliminate 90% of the population for its own (obscure) nefarious ends…
    Perhaps you don’t think this cabal is a centuries old organisation made up of disguised seven foot lizards, but like the Oregon survivalists holed up in their fortified compounds you show the same drooling relish for the coming societal apocalypse you predict.

    Despite the clear message from history that single unified conspiracies are NEVER the answer, reality has too many conflicting and contradictory forces, and any single goal always has unintended and unpredictable consequences, the simple minded, or perhaps just those that prefer simple, but false explanations put their faith in this sort of victim mentality where everything that is wrong is part of some grand conspiracy perpetrated on the many of US by the shadowy few of THEM.

    It is difficult to avoid the suspicion that the very disaster you fulminate against actually reveals some deeper wish for it to come true…. and that if only someone would give you the secret code of how to join the elect cabal of plotters you fantasize about, you would join them in an instant.

  265. Old Toad says:

    Sorry folks, much as you may enjoy Ozboy’s or dare I say it, JD’s blog, tonight the blogosphere belongs to the Guardian. Those of you who know Dr Richard North at the ‘EUreferendum’ blog will be aware of his row with George Monbiot (alias ‘freewales’, alias the Great Moonbat) over the possible loss of some of the Amazon rainforest. Whether to prevent litigation or whether in a desire to foster open debate, the Guardian have allowed Richard fully to refute George’s claims, in an article entitled ‘Why Amazongate Matters’.
    The usual respondents then pile in, some even asking questions which are then answered in full by Richard, replying as ‘spacedout’.
    If this is how on-line debates will be carried out in future, then this is the day that the blogosphere truly came of age.
    So who’s winning ? Dr Richard North, by a mile. Don’t take my word for it, get over there !

    Agree completely Old Toad: a victory for sunlight over smoke! – Oz

  266. tony_opmoc says:

    Even more bizzare…

    My wife has just gone into a panic….

    Because she has been snooping round our daughter’s bedroom…

    She has got this automated computer message from a complete fucking moron of an administrator in a letter…

    On initial reading it says – you can’t come back to University – because you haven’t got sufficient marks for one of your modules…unless you go to Appeal the decision…

    Now, I do not go snooping round my daughter’s bedroom..

    If my mum had gone snooping round my bedroom she would have found a load of porn mags – that would at least have convinced her that I was not gay and not cut out to be a Catholic Priest..

    But the details of my daughter’s results – were absolutely brilliant, except for the Introduction to the Course in Which She Got ZERO Marks.

    The Reason she go zero marks was because she wasn’t there for the Introduction.

    After a Month – she asked if She could Switch Courses – and Did…

    Although Missing The Introduction – she caught up so quickly that she was on for a 2/1 with the rest of her exams and course work – which is actually incredibly good…

    But like anything – these computers and administrative morons who never actually completed the course RULE…

    So she still has a problem – or maybe she has already sorted it…

    But I have a problem, because my wife now feels very guilty for snooping…and I have to find a way – to resolve any and all issues that need resolving without upsetting either my wife or my daughter…

    You see this World is Extremely Strange and The Idiots and Lunatics are in Control of The Asylum…

    On the other hand, I would not be that surprised if My Daughter Tells Them To Fuck Off, and Goes and Gets Herself a Proper Job instead that will save us all a fucking Fortune.



  267. bjedwards says:

    One thing we can count on from denialists of all stripes is the outright, blatant, rejection of evidence completely inconvenient to their political goals.

    The methodology and tactics of deniers are the same across the board. One tactic, exhibited by Orkeneylad above, is to cherry pick and claim to be right by assertion. Realityreturns does it routinely on the Telegraph blogs. They desperately want to get into a so-called “debate” rather than to acknowledge the actual factual matters of the case. Of course, all deniers HAVE to avoid the actual sum total of all the scientific research and conclusions that actually demonstrates that AGW is real. They HAVE to dream up conspiracies, “motives”, misrepresent science, data, and evidence to avoid AT ALL COSTS the actual science.

    So, Orkeneylad, bloviate onwards.

  268. bjedwards says:


    What are you smoking, lad?

  269. bjedwards bloviate boy you seem to have the pink oboe on your mind.


  270. orkneylad says:

    bj – ROFL

    So instead of ‘refuting’ the statement with that pesky thing called ‘evidence’ you just invent a pretend psychology for me…..LMFAO
    You clearly are a monumental fucktard…..you’re going to be so much fun having around!


  271. bjedwards bloviate also we have heard that phrase before.
    From past dwellers of the JD blog.

  272. ScouseBilly says:

    Hey, Fellatio, you’re a hoot.

    By “denialists” do you mean “deniers”?
    They didn’t teach you English properly either.
    Or is this post-normal English.

  273. Old Toad says:

    Bjedwards, first time I’ve read one of your posts. You make even the ‘duck’ look relevant and sane. Now for a bit of light relaxation visit your home blog at the Guardian and see what Dr North has to say to your mate ‘cannaman’. You’ve lost mate !

  274. NoIdea says:


    Welcome back! Can I say how delightful it is to see your excellent rebuttal?
    After the dross that BJ has been subjecting us to, your attempts to share your vision of reality are much appreciated, many thanks.
    I will dedicate some time to a more considered reply in the near future.

    What, NO links?


  275. tony_opmoc says:

    Sometimes when I get a little annoyed, I just have to take all my clothes off and tap my feet and say what I really mean


  276. Old Toad you really do get some loonies on CIF very good article, however in the past the Amazon and the Congo have experienced episodes of expansion and contraction this has little to do with AGW.

  277. Pointman says:

    Old Toad says:
    July 30, 2010 at 7:18 am

    What’s the link?


  278. tony_opmoc says:

    His song is really good, though I have never heard of him before

    David Berkely from Atlanta in Georgia

    He sounds a really interesting bloke

    But he is Playing Live on The Radio…

    Well I think it is live…


    But although the sound on his vocals are great…

    The sound on his acoustic guitar is way too loud…

    No his guitar isn’t loud…

    But the electronic settings are far too high

    The guitar sounds incredibly distorted…

    It might have been O.K. – if he was playing an Electric Guitar

    But I have a bit of a Passion for People who can play accoustic well

    Can someone please turn the level down.

    AND tHE mUSIC up

    Thank You


  279. Pointman says:



  280. tony_opmoc says:

    I guess this could be the Guy

    But I am listening to his words on the Radio

    How many David Berkely’s Are There?


  281. izen says:

    @-orkneylad says:
    July 30, 2010 at 7:15 am
    “Utter horseshit!
    Here’s the problem with the Stephan-Boltzmann constant:”

    Ah… its always fun when someone overturns the fundamental basis of modern physics with nothing more than plain horse-sense!

    Quote-“the sun’s energy approaching the earth is 1366 watts per square meter. The amount reflected away is said to be 26%. The amount absorbed into the atmosphere is said to be 16%. (See NASA chart). That’s 1366 minus 26% minus 16% = 792 W/m2. That’s how much radiation would fall on a black asphalt surface at the equator at noon. ”

    You have to allow for the fact the Earth is a sphere (not flat!) to calculate the average over the whole surface from that, but its about right for the equator…
    Actually for black asphalt you can omit the 26% reflected, black asphalt albedo is close to zero.

    Quote-“The Stephan-Boltzmann constant indicates that in a dark basement, a concrete wall at 59°F (the global average temperature) would emit 390 W/m2. That’s 49% as much radiation emitted from a dark, cold basement as falls on a black surface at the equator. It isn’t happening.”

    You are mixing up surface emissions which are in local thermal equalibrium with an energy flux that is an ADDITION to the ambient exchange. In fact from the sun this is obvious because it is in a different spectra with little overlap with the ambient emissions.

    Quote-“Night vision equipment shows that there is very little infrared radiation given off by normal temperature matter.”

    What wavelength is the night vision equipment you are considering sensitive too, and what is the wavelength of the thermal emission from ‘normal temperature matter?

    Quote – “At a normal temperature of 27°C (80°F), the calculated result without emissivity is 459 W/m2.
    At the assumed average temperature of the earth (15°C, 59°F), it’s 390 W/m2.
    At the freezing temperature of water (0°C, 32°F), it’s 315 W/m2.
    On a hot day of 37°C (98°F), it’s 524 W/m2.
    Normal temperature matter is not giving off that much infrared radiation.”

    So most of twentieth century physics is wrong, quantum mechanics must be discarded and all those calculations of the surface temperatures of other planets and stars will have to be abandoned… You are going to need extraordinarily good evidence for such an extraordinary claim!

    Quote-“If freezing water were emitting and absorbing the heat of three 100 watt light bulbs per square meter, the heat would interfere with the freezing process. …. The stability of the freezing temperature of water shows that there is not a significant amount of radiation being emitted and absorbed at that temperature.”

    Well thats certainly an extraordinary claim!
    Can you perhaps see that the “heat of three 100W light bulbs” is not a good comparison with the spectra and thermal energy from the surface of ice? What temperature are the tungsten filaments at? Suppose you use 300W of LED light – with no heat! -grin-…

    You are also missing the key implication of the 2LoT. If the ice is in thermal equilibrium with it surroundings the exchange of flux may be 315Wm2, but the net flow of energy is zero.

    If you really think that this basic physics of surface emissivity is bunk, perhaps you may want to tell this lot where they have gone wrong –

    Exterior Surface Temperature of Different Wall
    Comparison of Numerical Simulation and Experiment
    H. M. Kunsel, Th. Schmidt and A. Holm
    Fraunhoffer-Insitute of Building Physics.

    Click to access pub1_33.pdf

  282. tony_opmoc says:

    I assume there are some intelligent people here.

    Why The Fuck Are You Arguing With These Cretins who Believe in Global Warming?

    You must have the Patience of a Saint


  283. tony_opmoc says:

    Just Agree With The Global Warmers

    And Tell Them They Are Completely Correct

    We Have Got Grapevines Growing In Our Garden

    Well actually its next doors Garden – But The Grapes Are Overhanging Ours…

    They are Green / White Grapes

    Personally, I Prefer a Full Bodied Red Wine…

    But even so, this Global Warming we have expereinced for the last 30 years or so, has really improved the quality of life in Southern England…

    But don’t assume, that it is going to continue…

    I would love it if it does…

    But all the Real Hard Core Basic Science and History I have read recently – including real events – like the Gulf of Mexico Oil Spill – which has probably fucked up The Gulf Stream – and The Iceland Volcano – which is just a subtle hint – that the big one is about to blow like it did in 1783…

    And what the Sun is Doing Now – and Has Done in The Past…

    It is Extremely Possible That This Good Life Of Nice Warm Temperatures Is Going To End Very Soon

    And It Will Be Really COLD


    Once it Nearly Killed Me


  284. memoryvault says:

    Hi all,

    I see the resident idiot and the cock-sucker have both been here during the night.

    Try googling ‘bjedwards’ – it’s quite enlightening. A professional anti-denialist – who’d a thunk?

    You name it, if you don’t agree with the “groupthink”, “consensus viewpoint, then you’re a “denialist” and subjected to cock-sucker’s extremely limited wrath. And this from someone who claims belief in “the scientific method”.

    The fascinating thing about all the posts – regardless of subject matter – is that they’re virtually interchangeable. Here is one of his posts on another site, on a subject completely foreign to AGW, attacking somebody called “Andrew”:
    Andrew wrote, “Here an idea..how about enuff with the insults and provide some explanations? all anyone wants is credible explanations for these inexplicable events.”

    Here’s a clue:

    1. There is nothing that hasn’t already been explained hundreds of times.

    2. You XXX deniers do not LIKE the answers.

    3. That is why you nutters get the derision you earned.

    As long as their are XXX denier crackpots there will be honest, intelligent people like me reminding you to put up or shut up.
    Read familiar? All froth and no substance whatsoever. All I’ve done is replaced the actual subject being “denied”, with XXX. If I substituted AGW for XXX it could be one of its posts here.

    As for the resident idiot, what can one say? Another 2,000 + words and STILL no Plan B. Sigh.

    Oh, silly me, I forgot.

    The resident idiot already “addressed” that.

    He/she/it has told us in no uncertain terms that he/she/it is so infallibly right that there is absolutely no need for he/she/it – or anybody else for that matter, to even address the possibility. Or to quote the resident idiot itself:
    “As should be apparent to anyone with even rudimentary cognitive abilities I don’t accept your basic premise, so the apparent requirement you think I have to answer questions based on egregiously wrong assumptions is a personal delusion of your own making.”
    So many big words to say “nyah nyah – I’m right and you’re wrong”, like some four year old in a kindie playground. Ignoring, of course, the fact that previously the resident idiot has claimed to have addressed those very same issues. Such consistency.

    Oh to be so young again, and, well, just so RIGHT about everything that the possibility that one might soon be responsible for the deaths of two billion plus souls is so impossible as to be a delusion.

    Well, I have an advantage over the resident idiot.

    Before I go to bed each night I only have to try and blot out the faces of a million or so souls I helped kill. A couple of bottles of a good red usually does the trick.

    Not sure I could cope with a couple of billion.

    I’m looking forward to the resident idiot explaining how it’s done, somewhere down the track.

  285. izen says:

    There has been previous mention of the ridiculous Martin Hertzberg, Hans Schreuder, Alan Siddons, article about how the moon does not show correspondence with the Stefan-Bolztman law because the surface stores heat and releases it when the sun goes down so the surface does not drop to the 3k cosmic background… but cools during the local ‘night’.

    The irony (it burns!) is that the measurement DO confirm SB. The rate of cooling can be calculated from the thermal capacity, conductivity and emissivity of the surface ACCORDING to the SB law on the amount of energy lost by a surface if none is coming in.

    More detail here –

  286. orkneylad says:

    You have to allow for the fact the Earth is a sphere (not flat!) to calculate the average over the whole surface from that, but its about right for the equator…
    Actually for black asphalt you can omit the 26% reflected, black asphalt albedo is close to zero.

    Precisely, which proves SB usage is inadequate for accurate climate modelling…….maybe the reason NASA disguarded the use of SB from their moonshot calculations. There’s a lot of information on this topic out there.

    So most of twentieth century physics is wrong, quantum mechanics must be discarded and all those calculations of the surface temperatures of other planets and stars will have to be abandoned… You are going to need extraordinarily good evidence for such an extraordinary claim!

    “There is not one concept that I’m convinced will stand the test of time”.
    Albert Einstein.

    I’m interested in Lorentz’s ‘Steady State General Relativity Model’ & the ‘Electric Universe’ of Donald Scott……I recommend reading up on the Electric Sun Theory of Ralph Jurgens…..how sure are YOU about the nature of reality? What will humanity have to say about our collective state of understanding a thousand years hence? “A mind is like a parachute. It doesn’t work if it is not open.” {FZ}

    Can you perhaps see that the “heat of three 100W light bulbs” is not a good comparison with the spectra and thermal energy from the surface of ice? What temperature are the tungsten filaments at? Suppose you use 300W of LED light – with no heat! -grin-…

    Ok hands up, that bit it wasn’t perfect. -cheeky grin-

    If you really think that this basic physics of surface emissivity is bunk, perhaps you may want to tell this lot where they have gone wrong –

    You think it’ll make a difference? Ok will do.

  287. ScouseBilly says:

    Tony_Opmoc, if you’ve got Sky Arts, Jimmy Rosenberg docu on now and repeated at 4.20am which I will record. It’s called The father, the son and the talent – absolutely unbelievable Sinti (gypsy) guitarist but a flawed genius – the best usually are IMO 😉

  288. orkneylad says:

    MV – that was great.

    Springtime for AGW

  289. memoryvault says:


    Quote: Why The Fuck Are You Arguing With These Cretins who Believe in Global Warming?

    Probably the most intelligent post in the last week.


  290. izen says:

    @- memoryvault –
    “…Well, I have an advantage over the resident idiot.

    Before I go to bed each night I only have to try and blot out the faces of a million or so souls I helped kill. A couple of bottles of a good red usually does the trick.”

    Oh VERY dramatic!

    Unless your Pol Pot in hiding you have a vastly over-inflated sense of your own culpability.
    Probably a psychological justification for the alcohol…..

  291. Amanda says:

    Ed: You and me both, mate.

    Blackswan: Yes I know I put the asterisk in the name. Did you think I was accusing you of something? I was just saying, in effect, ‘why am I doing this?’

    Evening all.

  292. ScouseBilly says:

    Before it gets pulled at the DT:

    MOD/Warmist extortion of Barclays, Thomsons and Lord Black


    There is only one explanation for the Barclay Twins, The Thomson Family and Conrad Black’s former chain of newspapers (DT and CanWest) continuing to promote the AGW scam and that is family members are being extorted by agents to toe the line put out by the MOD/Met Office trading arm.

    Remember they put Black behind bars when his investigative journalists started digging into a trail which was about to lead to the Reuters Mafia run by Samantha Cameron’s cronies.

    “The Earth is hotter than ever, global warming is real, researchers warn Scientists hope findings will debunk some growing skepticism about climate change Paul WaldieFrom Thursday’s Globe and Mail Thursday, Jul. 29, 2010 02:27PM EDT .. More than 300 scientists from around the world, including several Canadians, hope to blunt some growing skepticism about climate change with a new report that says global warming is a fact and the Earth is hotter than ever. “The conclusion is unmistakable – yes, the planet is warming,” said Derek Arndt, a co-editor of the report, called State of the Climate, which was published by the U.S. National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, or NOAA. “The facts speak for themselves, and speak simultaneously,” said Mr. Arndt, who runs the Climate Monitoring Branch at NOAA. “And, they all point toward the same conclusion – the globe is warming.” The report – co-edited by researchers in the United States, Canada, Britain and Australia – pulled together data from 10 climate indicators measured by 160 research groups in 48 countries. The scientists compared the figures decade by decade as far back as possible, more than 100 years in some cases. They concluded 2000 to 2009 was the warmest decade ever, and the Earth has been growing warmer for 50 years. Each of the past three decades – 1980s, 1990s and 2000s – was the hottest on record, the researchers said”

    “The Woodbridge Company Limited is a Canadian private holding company and the principal and controlling shareholder (53 percent) of Thomson Reuters. Thomson Reuters was formed in 2008 when The Thomson Corporation acquired Reuters. Woodbridge is the primary investment vehicle for members of the family of the late Roy Thomson, the first Lord Thomson of Fleet. Woodbridge also owns the largest (40 percent) interest in CTVglobemedia, a Canadian multimedia company with ownership of CTV and The Globe and Mail. CTV owns and operates 27 conventional stations, with interests in 35 specialty channels, including TSN. CTVglobemedia also owns the CHUM Radio Division, which operates 35 radio stations throughout Canada. David Thomson and his brother, Peter Thomson, became chairmen of Woodbridge upon the death of their father, Kenneth Thomson in 2006. Woodbridge is based in Toronto, Ontario, Canada. Geoff Beattie is President of the company.”


  293. tony_opmoc says:

    The first objective is to maintain peace and harmony, and to try and avoid any emotional outbursts and raised blood pressure and anger…

    And also to convince my wife, “when she has gone to bed”, that I have completely maintained her confidence when our daughter gets home and I chat to her about her night out – which of course she hears every single word of the conversation without us realising because “she is asleep in bed…”

    If I convince my wife I am a completely brilliant diplomat and can keep my mouth shut when she asks me to keep my mouth shut….

    Then I may get a completely brilliant blow job on my birthday…

    I can only take it occasionaly – because the orgasm is just so incredibly powerful…

    She likes it with chocolate

    I just do not understand why they don’t do ice magic anymore.


  294. memoryvault says:


    Idiot, you have no idea where you’re treading.

    Along with a small group of other Australian Army officers, I helped train the men who went back to Cambodia and trained the men who became the Khmer Rouge.

    Without me, and men like me, there would have been no Pol Pot.

    And you know what, idiot? Like you I was SO right that I was doing the right thing at the time.

    That is why, idiot, I am always going to be here to remind you of your culpability, when the dying starts in earnest.

  295. Pointman says:

    Hi MV.

    After Izen’s post, I felt the storm approaching. He’s invigorated by the appearance of our second troll the Gimp BJ. We’re up against the gang of two and they’re busy sharing three braincells. The bastard three body problem strikes again.

    Give ’em Hell.

    Pointman of W. Allawora

  296. Pointman says:

    ScouseBilly July 30, 2010 at 9:47 am

    Billy, I’m disappointed in you. How could you post the Apple Crumble Brutaliser’s stuff here? Next you’ll be mentioning sh**p. Zounds!


  297. Pointman says:

    Amanda July 30, 2010 at 9:45 am

    What’s with this asterisk in your name, Am**da?


  298. memoryvault says:


    THREE braincells?

    Surely you exaggerate?

  299. tony_opmoc says:

    My Wife and Kids Are Lovely

    I Don’t Judge Them on how they are To Each Other That Much

    I Judge Them On The Way They Are With Their Friends

    You see – we have always had a completely Open House

    When the kids were younger -we invited all our friends back – and still do

    But now it is their time and their turn

    And if you can’t have a Brilliant Time when You are Young – and have The Freedom to Bring Your Friends Home – such that you can introduce them to your Mum and Dad – then what is Life All About?

    Hey we all have problems – we have all been there and done that….

    Our Kids Look at Us Both…

    And They Get Confused

    Who Exactly Are The Kids Here?

    You see – Our Parties – The Adults Parties

    Us Grown Ups

    Us 18-70 Year Olds

    They think

    Fuckin Ell

    You see they can’t compete

    And it really pisses my daughter off – when she is having a party and totally and completely fucks up the music and the BBQ

    And I sort out both

    And leave them to it

    You see – us old farts have experience

    And we like the same music


  300. memoryvault says:


    After careful consideration, I think I’ve found a physical location for Wallawora.

    It’s a valley with a rockpool and a waterfall in the eastern corner of Charlie Moylan National Park here in QLD, where the rainforest is really thick and lush, and the BellBirds sing their unique song.

  301. Amanda says:

    MV: You see that Pointman’s romantic, too, do you? Not much of a secret round here :^)

  302. Amanda says:

    Actually Pointman it’s *m**d*

    Also, I had a whole Snickers bar this afternoon. That’s 280 calories. How’s that diet going, *m**d*?

    P. S. It was good, though :^)

  303. tony_opmoc says:

    Its only a matter of having a good attitude to life and having a Mum and Dad who give you Great Genes…

    Such that when you are Really Old…

    Your Long Blonde Hair and Your Perfect Skin…

    And You Are Still In Love With Your Heart of Gold That You Spent Years Searching For as Programmed By Neil Young

    And Her Longe Blonde Hair and Her Perfect Skin – Cos She has Been Covering It With All This Cream That Makes You Look 18 When You Are 70 Bollocks…


    We went to a posh town today – cos they gave me an incredibly cheap quote – less than half the price…

    She was just so happy

    She sparkled…

    I couldn’t believe that this most Beautiful Girl with her long blonde hair and her eyes so blue…was my Best Friend and My Wife

    What do you mean we can’t keep it up?

    We have been together for longer than anyone we know – except her Mum and Dad – who have done about 55 years – and They are Still Going Strong



  304. izen says:

    @ -memoryvault –
    “Along with a small group of other Australian Army officers, I helped train the men who went back to Cambodia and trained the men who became the Khmer Rouge.
    Without me, and men like me, there would have been no Pol Pot.”

    In that case you are claiming far more ‘guilt’ than is justified.
    Without the influence of French Marxist ideology and a thousand years of feudal oppression there would have been no Pol Pot. Not to mention the French colonialism, the Vietnam war and Sino-Soviet proxy politicking…
    The military tactics of revolutionary Guerrilla groups do not require training from western military sources to be effective, or despotic.

    The atrocities and ideology of the Khmer Rouge are no more the fault of any minor military advice delivered second hand than the anti-intellectualism and rejection of modern society by the Taliban is the fault of US involvement with the Afghanistan resistance to Russian occupation.
    Such agrarian utopianism that when imposed becomes a despotic oppression with catastrophic consequences is a recurring historical trope.

    Just drink the wine because its good, and you like the effect.
    Stop the overblown sense of wickedness when in reality you were as small and interchangeable cog in a MUCH larger process.

  305. memoryvault says:

    Hi Amanda

    Actually I think most if not all the guys here are.
    In fact, if it were possible to put us all in a room together, I think you’d find we were all close to twin brothers under the skin.

    Take Tony_opmac for instance. Substitute “son” for “daughter”, and he could be describing the MV household.

    The “drop-in” centre for all the kids, the fixing the music and the BBQ, the wife snooping and then feeling guilty, even the inability to handle the intensity of bj’s –

    though it’s sure as hell fun trying.

  306. Amanda says:

    Only read if you’re interested in exercise/muscles:

    Also, I learned on YouTube yesterday that the way to do dumbbell flys is NOT to keep a bend in the arms but to stretch the arms right out (without locking the elbows — got to protect the joints). Bent knees to protect the lower back and keep it flat (one is lying down), and tight abs the whole time. Tried it yesterday with a pathetically small weight because that’s all I could bring with me to the hotel. Anyway it works — I can feel it the next day because of the technique — that SQUEEZE at the top when you bring your weights together.

    Sorry if this is terribly boring but I like exercising with weights (free weights especially), but wasn’t getting the results I wanted… You won’t catch me with flabby biceps and triceps, I tell ya…

  307. Amanda says:

    MV, I reckon you’re right.

  308. Pointman says:

    memoryvault July 30, 2010 at 10:17 am

    It’s got a waterfall in the east? I think you’re on to something. It’s got to have a spate river running through it then. It comes in from the east and then doglegs north. In the Winter it rearranges all the rocks with a ferocity so it’s always a new game every year. You can always wade in it. A few herbs grow along the bank and you can grab a handfull as you fish through.

    Pointman of Wallawoora

  309. memoryvault….Pointman

    After careful consideration, I think I’ve found a physical location for Wallawora.

    It’s a valley with a rockpool and a waterfall in the eastern corner of Charlie Moylan National Park here in QLD, where the rainforest is really thick and lush, and the BellBirds sing their unique song.

    Are trying to kill pointman as Blackswan reminds us you have some rather large aquatic reptiles that like to hide out in quiet pools. Not to mention the spiders and snakes.

  310. Amanda says:

    MV: the regulars, I mean. Otherwise I think we are suffering from a deeply non-romantic case of Too Much Information.

  311. Pointman says:

    Amanda July 30, 2010 at 10:31 am

    Once I forget the Ostriches, I fall back on chocolate and sex. Yet again, as in your adventures in the dark side of German, there’s nothing I can teach you …


  312. Amanda says:

    Crown: Did you see in the Telegraph yesterday the news about the 10-foot alligator in the St Petersburg area (to wit: in my neighbourhood) that has been eating dogs and terrorizing pets and people? The relevant U. S. wildlife authority has taken the unusual step of authorizing a gator hunter to shoot… the headline was: Wanted, Dead or Alive. Trouble is, they can’t find him. Lots of water in Florida, lots of ducts and channels and drainage pipes. Mind you, he IS ten feet long, and sooner or later that’s going to prove inconvenient.

  313. Amanda says:

    Pointman: I wouldn’t be too sure about that. I just fall back on chocolate!

  314. memoryvault says:


    It’s one thing to be a completely ignorant idiot; it’s quite another to go around, as you do, proudly waving it about above your head like a banner for all the world to see.

    There is so much childish foolishness in your post it would take a week to address it all, and even then you wouldn’t, couldn’t even remotely conceive what I was writing about.

    You simply don’t have the life experiences to cope.

    So, instead of that, why don’t you get – let’s make it fair – say a hundred or so of your post-normal science, latte-sipping, left-wing, university educated, armchair-sitting world problem solvers, and I’ll round up, say three of my old army-discipline and small-weapons trained friends, and we’ll all go camping in the forests down Pemberton way.

    Your lot can have anything readily available to a 1970’s Cambodian peasant, and I’ll see if I can round up a couple of SLR’s, a converted bren, and a bag-full of grenades.

    We’ll count (surviving) heads in the morning to decide the winner of the argument.

  315. Amanda says:

    Gosh, MV, I trust I’m not the idiot to whom you refer, hehehe.

  316. ScouseBilly says:

    MV lol.

    Pointman, what on earth was your apple crumble issue all about?

  317. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Morning MV,

    Something I forgot to include in our conversation last night……..

    I remember Peter Spencer, the farmer whose land was declared a Carbon Sink by the Labor Govt, preventing him clearing regrowth scrub on his private property.

    This was done without compensation, against our Constitution, and in accordance with the UN’s Agenda 21 which determines “sustainable land use”.

    He lost the lot, for one reason or another, but sheer desperation at the Govt’s bastardry sent him on that extended hunger strike that could well have killed him. These SOBs are capable of stealing a lot more than a man’s farm.

    A precedent has been set for “the sustainable use of private property” in this country, all based on Green principles. There is no legal redress available in Australia as Spencer discovered at the Govt’s brace of Legal Eagles (at what cost to the taxpayer?) as they obfuscated for years through over 200 deferred dates for a hearing in the High Court.

    Legislation now exists which allows Govt to compulsorily acquire private property and then on-sell it private developers at a huge profit for Govt (or less, if they’re Labor mates, in which case the taxpayer wears the difference).

    I don’t think we can afford to underestimate the future implications of these matters. The landscape has already changed. Whether those changes are irrevocable remains to be seen, but we must acknowledge them.

  318. Pointman says:

    izen July 30, 2010 at 10:34 am

    Give 20 men a rifle each and you’ve armed them. So what? They’re civilians with a tool they don’t know how to use.

    Teach them how look after it, use it to get more from the enemy, to set an ‘X’ ambush and you’ve done something else.

    You only ever lived in a world of committee wars where all victories or losses are bloodless. Not everyone operated in such comfy confines, especially when they were young. You’ve got that 20-20 hindsight vision. You’re a lucky safe man who’s never given his fealty to a cause. A soldier. Rejoice in your good fortune Fuckwit before you criticise us.


  319. Blackswan Tasmania says:


    Oxygen thieves double as maggots. You know, those bloated parasitic grubs that feed on open wounds.

  320. tony_opmoc says:

    You probably don’t understand what it is like when your 15 year old daughter isn’t back when you get home from the jam night…

    You go into a bit of a panic

    You ask her older brother – do you know where she is?

    And he doesn’t know

    So you phone up all her friends

    And they tell us The Truth

    They said – we all just having a lovely time in the park…

    It was our end of summer celebration thing…

    We were all walking home together…

    And The Police Turned Up With This Big Van

    We all ran for it – except Katy…

    She had done nothing wrong and just kept on walking

    And this Big Policeman Grabbed Hold Of Her – Threw Her To The Ground and Put His Knee In Her Back – and Cuffed Her From Behind

    He Then Picked Her Up Her – And Threw Her Into The Back Of The Meat Wagon

    She Refused To Give Her Real Name and Address …

    So They Took Her with The Other Kids They Had Captured…

    And Took Her DNA For Tony Blair’s Database – and To Keep Their Statistics Up – Cos They Won’t Dare Go – where they is any Trouble…

    So I phoned The Cop Shop Up at around 11:30 pm – after they had had her for 2 hours…

    I said you have got My Daughter

    Can I have her Back Please?

    They said – We haven’t Got Anyone of That Name Here…

    I gave them the place and time of where they had arrested her…

    They said – We haven’t Got Anyone of That Name Here…

    I said Yes You Have – Her Friends Told ME

    So I finally signed everything they put in front of me without even reading it

    And got My Daughter Back at about 3:30 am

    So THREE Years Later – She went By Herself – when she was 18 years old…

    Right to The Front of The G20 Protests

    With NO FEAR Whatsoever

    She looked like a Press Photographer – except she is rather small – but she had a Professional Looking Camera

    And Took Some Of The Best Photos I Have Seen at The London G20 Protests

    She Captured The Riot Police – On The Front Line – and The Peaceful Protestors…

    She published them in her little way – and her photos were better than the Pro’s

    So the next day – she went back with her mates

    And The Police gave Her Full Access To Take Photos of Obama and His Crew Going Into The Seat of Hell

    So She Forgave The Police and Is Now Good Mates With Them


  321. Amanda says:

    Yeah, I wondered about that, too. Apple crumble — mm, wouldn’t want it messed up. But would be much more put out if the clementine tart or bakewell tart I’d really laboured over had been eighty-sixed by something.

  322. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Caught up with your earlier comments. I’d never accuse you of anything. That’s the trouble with keyboard conversations – we miss a tone of voice or a chuckle.
    BTW, I’m with you and then some – a thoroughly obnoxious Too Much Information has turned up on the doorstep.

  323. Pointman says:

    ScouseBilly July 30, 2010 at 11:02 am

    Billy, I’m stil traumatized about it. As we both know, councilling is an intensely private thing. Sufficent to say, the Cap’n’s activities on the sh**p worrying front pale by comparison.

    Your brother in Christ.

    Pointman of the brutalised apple crunble.

    Burn in Hell younger brother of Mycroft.

  324. Pointman says:

    Amanda July 30, 2010 at 11:10 am

    Let’s leave Clemmy out of this …


  325. Amanda says:

    Well that’s just fine, Blackswan, I wouldn’t accuse you of anything, either. Just making sure. And glad we agree about — that other thing.

  326. Amanda says:

    Pointman: chuckle — you’re so romantic, you name your car… as we were saying.

  327. Amanda says:

    Blackswan: Drugs?

  328. Pointman says:

    Yes – agreed about the other thing. All a bit disturbing really …


  329. Amanda says:

    By the way, Mr A wasn’t interested in my stunning new weight-training news, either. I said to him: shall I tell you what I learned on YouTube about exercise? And he said: well I haven’t seen you all day so I would talk to you about wine gums if you wanted — not really interested — but tell me all about it. So (I’m afraid to say) I did.

  330. Blackswan Tasmania says:



  331. Amanda says:

    Pointman: How did he find us? Internet roulette?

    One time — Crown may remember — we were having our usual fun Night Shift on Delingpole’s blog, as we did before the format ruined everything — and some guy came on — obviously high on something — acting like my long-lost heart-throb and pasting my posts all over the place. Next day, Crown said something about meths muddling the mind, and even though I have no idea what meths are, I’ve no doubt he was right.

  332. ScouseBilly says:

    Amanda, have you ever been to Bakewell?
    They have the Original Bakewell Pudding Shop there.
    An old school friend is a dentist there – I should imagine the local weightwatchers franchise is also lucrative 😉
    We have a couple of amiable northern fat lad TV chefs here called the Hairy Bikers.
    They went to Bakewell and tasted the Original Bakewell Pudding then worked out how to make it. I will try and get their recipe for you.

    Pointy, I’m sorry, I didn’t know that.
    I find some of Hawkins/CS stuff intriguing and as Tony says, it’s the world that’s fucking mad.

    btw I posted a link the other day to the Maltese Double Cross, a 2h 30min film on PanAm 103 – well worth watching if you have the time:


    The quality could be a lot better – think I’ll see if there’s a torrent available – but some very interesting witness testimony.

  333. tony_opmoc says:

    So, I thought I can’t compete with that.

    She is now 19

    I am now 56

    And I tried to learn to play guitar when I was 13

    And I gave it up because my fingers hurt

    And I tried to learn to play guitar when I was 50

    And I gave it up because my fingers hurt

    But around Easter time – when My Guitar Was Not Returned From University as Promised at Christmas

    I Thought Fuck It

    It Can’t Be That Hard

    So I bought Myself a New Guitar

    My Mate Said To Me

    What Are You Going To Do With It – Hang It On The Wall?

    I Said NO

    This Time I am Going To Play It Every Single Day – Even When I Don’t Want To

    Just For 10 Minutes Every Day

    My Fingers Don’t Hurt Anymore

    And so I Borrow My Daughters Accoustic Guitar…

    And I hadn’t tried to play an Accoustic Guitar Since The AGe of 13

    I just picked it up –

    And tuned it

    And Played it

    So Now I can Play My Daughter’s Guitar Better Than Her…

    Now That is Some Competetion

    And Her New Boyfriend Plays Guitar Like an Angel


  334. amanda meth is country specialty around these parts some pictures of it’s effects….

  335. Amanda says:

    Blackswan: one other reason why Old Toad’s wrong about JD’s blog. No Night Shift there any more. No kicking back after a good day (well, some of us have to work — even me, at times) of troll-containing, truth-dispensing, and anti-AGW-community-building. But here we can relax and don’t even have to consider some big-money banner waving above us.

  336. Pointman says:

    It’s just a Karma thing, Amanda. We covered our tracks, went to the other side of the world to a little place called Wallawoora but the bastard still found us. Here we were doing an antopedian version of Salem’s Lot and the bugger still found us.

    You’re to blame.


  337. Amanda says:

    It’s like spam, isn’t it, guys? Hmm.

  338. Amanda says:

    Pointman: ME??? I never told anyone the coordinates!

  339. Pointman says:

    Amanda July 30, 2010 at 11:41 am

    “I never told anyone the coordinates!” – Yeah, yeah, yeah.

    We’re dealing with sad people here. Your description of getting into wetsuits was bad enought but adding in your struggles after a few chocolate bars blew the whole thing viral. In God’s name woman, what were you thinking of? You know what they’re like …


  340. Amanda says:

    Crown, your meth before-and-afters would be/should be enough to put anyone off. Personally, I don’t like a too-strong antihistamine, never mind any other pill or powder (I take it you don’t drink meths?).

  341. tony_opmoc says:

    And So All Us Over 50’s are Going To See


    ANd I thought who the fuck are The Damned?


    Its FREE


    All Our Mates Are Going


  342. Amanda says:

    Yes, you’re right Pointman. The idea of fat chocolate-swelled women getting into wetsuits bought a long time ago must be mind-destroying for some people. Hello, Foreign Office? Yes, I am a deadly weapon waiting to be deployed against the enemy. What’s that? You’re in bed with the enemy? Sorry, my mistake.

  343. Amanda says:

    Crown: saw the Spam link. Reminds of Mr A’s imaginary request by Ch*mmy:

    ‘I’d like an apple omelette please. Hold the apple’.

  344. Amanda says:

    ScouseBilly: ‘then worked out how to make it’. Yeah, I bet they did: I bit they worked out after that!

    Little FYI: the original bakewell, I understand, uses jam. But it’s just as good if not better with fresh fruit, like cherries, cooked a bit in maple syrup. I found that out myself this summer.

  345. Amanda says:

    bet not bit. They bit first. Then worked out!

  346. Pointman says:

    Amanda, perhaps you’re a WMS – Weapon of Mass Stalking. We all have our Karma. Perhaps this is yours. People say one should accept ones fate. Perhaps not. I haven’t and perhaps you shouldn’t. It’s their problem. You’re a pistolero.


  347. amanda I’m not sure of the chemistry behind meth, but an awful lot of them usually blow themselves up at some point the stuff can be unstable at some point in the process.

  348. Pointman says:

    Crown, a bit behind the curve but what the Hell.


  349. Amanda says:

    That’s interesting, Pointman. How do you find these things?

  350. Amanda says:

    G’night all.

  351. copyright issues wrong country again.

  352. tony_opmoc says:

    So she is a bit of a stunner, a little shy (I really like that in a girl) – and incredibly polite…

    She sees me dancing in the garden with my leak proof headphones- and I see her making a cup of tea – I danced away…but then came back…

    She asked me what I was listening to…

    I of course took my headphones off to talk to her…

    I said I am listening to


    Its By David Bowie

    I really like it – it is an old song…

    I am listening to it on the Radio

    And then her Boyfriend Sneaked Up Behind Her

    I said he’s O.K.

    He does things like that.

    My Son has a Great Choice in Girls.


  353. Pointman says:

    tony_opmoc July 30, 2010 at 12:31 pm

    I’m a dad. I’ve been reading your posts. They’re not getting any better. I don’t like you. Thanks Billy. With judgement like that, don’t bother registering, nothing’s going to happen.


  354. ScouseBilly says:

    I don’t think I’m the one doing the judging.

  355. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Compo? Says it all really.

  356. ScouseBilly says:

    Tony, this is Oz’s libertarian blog. It’s a safe refuge for anyone who has been moderated or banned elsewhere – hence my invite after your contretemps with CM and you have a good heart. Don’t mind Pointy, he’s free to say what he wants too.
    It’s late so I will say good night.

  357. tony_opmoc says:

    You see, I fucked about before I met my heart of gold…

    I came to the conclusion that All The Girls I Fell In Love With were completely mad…

    They behaved in the most extraordinary ways when Rest of this post moderated by Oz

    …yeah, yeah: let’s see how much filth I can fit onto one post. It’s been tried too often before to be an effective tactic.

    75% of the World Wide Web is supposed to be porn; you don’t need LibertyGibbert for that.

    Go elsewhere – Oz

  358. Pointman says:

    tony_opmoc July 30, 2010 at 12:31 pm

    As a follow on Kiddo, get any more explicit and I’ll grass you up with pleasure and I’m sure Ozboy will be happy to supply your IP address, despite his Libertarian principles. You’ve been warned freak, though I think we should turn you in right now. That gets you off our blog.

    Personally I’d do you right now. I’d like to do that. People like you have a history. People like us have a history of turning a blind eye. I’m not people like ‘us”. I’d like to stop you right now. This very night, I’m looking for your real name & address and I’ll find it. You’re fucked and I’ll see to it. John Law does it or I will.


  359. Pointman says:

    And I’m a lot more fucking immediate than John Law.


  360. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    ScouseBilly says:
    July 30, 2010 at 12:50 pm

    “I don’t think I’m the one doing the judging”.

    We all make value judgments every day of our lives. It’s what sorts the wheat from the chaff. Don’t impose your judgments on other people who are free to make their own choices. I suggest you give your friend your email address and let him vent on you, who doesn’t have appear to have any moral compass whatsoever.

  361. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    All the way.

  362. Blackswan Tasmania says:



  363. Pointman says:

    Sun’s going down here in Wallawoora. I’m off to bed. Ford’s in his flivver. You meet the ocasional pervert but most people are the real deal.

    “You wanna piece of me? The goat knows best”


  364. Well tonight’s little soiree has gotten me thinking about censorship, free speech and other matters so thanks guys for providing me with something to blog about. I make clear my own opinion clear (I hope) and forgive the bad punctuation and everything. However what are your views on the matter.
    Please stop by and let me know what you thought about things.

  365. izen says:

    @ orkneylad –
    “…I’m interested in Lorentz’s ‘Steady State General Relativity Model’ & the ‘Electric Universe’ of Donald Scott……I recommend reading up on the Electric Sun Theory of Ralph Jurgens…..how sure are YOU about the nature of reality?”

    Thats mainly the physics version of New Age Woo I’m afraid.
    The SB law is derived directly from the Planck formula, which in turn is the basis for quantum mech…
    Quantum physics is the best tested theory we have, whatever modifications in the future its not going to overturn the basic experimental results. Like GR/SR on Newtonian gravitation you may get a modified underlying theory, but the basic results will remain in the context already tested, and USED in so much of the technical equipment we use daily.

    So yes, there may be many things we can doubt about the nature of reality, but personally quantum physics is very near the bottom of any list.

    There is always something … odd about people calling into question aspects of science that underly the very technology they are using to communicate their doubts…

  366. ozboy just to make it clear I agree with you 100%, but freedom of speech is one of those things that interest me so it provided me with something to use to ask interesting questions what do others think? On my own blog I would have done the same.
    So posted you a reply. I’m just curious as to general opinion considering our censorship for far lesser offenses on the DT blogs so where are the boundaries in general not just here it’s a big question everywhere.

  367. izen says:

    @ – Noidea –

    By the way, thanks for posting the quote from G K Clifford – he is good isn’t he! – the ‘no man is an island’ in discourse bit expresses rather better than my waffle about ‘propriety’ I made for why I post about the BEST science knowledge we have.

  368. Edward. says:


    I’ve got it!, yes your motif gives it away.
    A photo somewhere of Citizen, you dropped the Cit, you should have kept the full title however; Citizen of Mars and Space Cadet extraordinaire!
    Why don’t you “phone home” luv?


  369. Ozboy says:

    G’day all,

    Why don’t you take this over to my new brief post. I’ll give you a full post shortly.



  370. Amerloque says:

    Hi memoryvault !
    on July 30, 2010 at 9:26 am


    /// So many big words to say “nyah nyah – I’m right and you’re wrong”, like some four year old in a kindie playground. … Oh to be so young again, and, well, just so RIGHT about everything that the possibility that one might soon be responsible for the deaths of two billion plus souls is so impossible as to be a delusion. ///

    Later, on July 30, 2010 at 10:55 am

    /// idiot

    It’s one thing to be a completely ignorant idiot; it’s quite another to go around, as you do, proudly waving it about above your head like a banner for all the world to see.
    There is so much childish foolishness in your post it would take a week to address it all, and even then you wouldn’t, couldn’t even remotely conceive what I was writing about.
    You simply don’t have the life experiences to cope. ///

    Amerloque is inevitably reminded of the words of the Immortal Bob Dylan in 1964. This fellow you’re writing to is a living example, 2010 vintage. (wide grin)

    Here we go !

    “My Back Pages

    Crimson flames tied through my ears
    Rollin’ high and mighty traps
    Pounced with fire on flaming roads
    Using ideas as my maps.
    “We’ll meet on edges soon,” said I
    Proud ‘neath heated brow …

    Ahh, but I was so much older then
    I’m younger than that now !

    Half-wracked prejudice leaped forth
    “Rip down all hate,” I screamed.
    Lies that life is black and white
    Spoke from my skull. I dreamed
    Romantic facts of musketeers
    Foundationed deep, somehow …

    Ahh, but I was so much older then
    I’m younger than that now !

    Girls’ faces formed the forward path
    From phony jealousy
    To memorizing politics
    Of ancient history
    Flung down by corpse evangelists
    Unthought of, though, somehow …

    Ahh, but I was so much older then
    I’m younger than that now !

    A self-ordained professor’s tongue
    Too serious to fool
    Spouted out that “liberty”
    Is just “equality” in school.
    “Equality !” – I spoke that word
    As if a wedding vow …

    Ahh, but I was so much older then
    I’m younger than that now !

    In a soldier’s stance, I aimed my hand
    At the mongrel dogs who teach,
    Fearing not I’d become my enemy
    In the instant that I preach.
    My existence led by confusion bodes
    Mutiny from stern to bow …

    Ahh, but I was so much older then
    I’m younger than that now !

    My guard stood hard when abstract threats
    Too noble to neglect
    Deceived me into thinking
    I had something to protect.
    “Good” and “”bad – I defined these terms
    Quite clear, no doubt, somehow …

    Ahh, but I was so much older then –
    I’m younger than that now !”

    (Sigh, then grin)

    (As Amerloque I invoke the Fair Use Provision(s) of the Copyright Act. All copyrights remain with the copyright holders.)


    Amerloque 20100730 09h00 Paris time (CET)

  371. orkneylad says:

    izen – I know I know, you prefer abstraction to empiricism………I prefer to explore these so-called ‘new age’ theories that don’t break Maxwell’s Equations, or require other ‘universal laws’ to break down at sub-atomic level………call me old-fashioned, I prefer the open road to your cul-de-sac. [-grin] Does that make me new-fashioned? I have ‘NoIdea’.

  372. suffolkboy says:

    Can I put in a word of caution? There seem to be some mathematical or scientific issues being touched on by regulars, usually in a quick-off-the-mark response to a transient troll or three. I am concerned that to my eyes these may contain either slips, over-simplifications, mis-simplifications, or fundamental errors of understanding. While this is hardly in itself going to overthrow climate scepticism or confuse either camp, it give trolls considerable material to continue trolling. In essence, if we accidentally post here “2+2=5, hence AGW is bunk” the trolls will post “BWHAHAH these sceptics are so stoopid they can’t do basic arithmetic, or spell Doomsday, hence AGW is totally vindicated” and then proceed to cut and paste the embarrassing error from here to the wider world. (At a higher level, this tends to be what the two camps are doing to each other anyway, but wrapped in complexities and red herrings.)

    The areas of particularly thin ice to my mind are the no-such-thing-as-an-ozone-layer, and the Stefan’s Law dispute (which is a red herring), both of which could lead to vast quantities of postings which divert us from the real issue of how to keep the lights on after 2015, but I expect there are others.

    Having said that, I have met teenagers who seriously tell me that there is an irreplaceable layer of 100% pure ozone about 10cm thick high up in the atmosphere which was put there at the time the Earth was created and which we are destroying at the poles and next year all the Australians will die of skin cancer. This is the sort of misunderstanding that I have to put right.

    Thanks for the CFC info regarding shenanigans. In my “How Science Works” lessons I probably ought to refer to “How Science *Really* works” and get authenticated examples of how salesmen have for centuries deliberately seek to deride their competitors products by spreading conjecture of risk of harm; similarly patent expiry wars.

    To straighten out Stefan’s Law misunderstanding I shall have to get my old text books out and pour myself something stronger than my first morning cup of tea.

    In meantime: shhhh! Trolls are everywhere. Time for my breakfast, and then a private study period on Stefan, CFCs, and the buoyancy of bricks made out of CFCs.

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