Faster And Faster…


You lot are posting faster than I can write new threads!

When the comments on any particular thread get to 400 or so, the page start slowing down in loading, so here’s yet another brief “spill post” (as I call them), to enable you to continue the debate from the previous thread a bit more easily.

Next full post shortly (I promise—really!)


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403 Responses to Faster And Faster…

  1. If anyone else wishes to post there will be 6 hour time lag in approvals as bed beckons soon unless you are already approved. However please add your comments. I’m curious as to what everyone thinks.

  2. Amerloque says:

    (reposted here fom previous thread)

    Hi memoryvault !
    on July 30, 2010 at 9:26 am


    /// So many big words to say “nyah nyah – I’m right and you’re wrong”, like some four year old in a kindie playground. … Oh to be so young again, and, well, just so RIGHT about everything that the possibility that one might soon be responsible for the deaths of two billion plus souls is so impossible as to be a delusion. ///

    Later, on July 30, 2010 at 10:55 am

    /// idiot

    It’s one thing to be a completely ignorant idiot; it’s quite another to go around, as you do, proudly waving it about above your head like a banner for all the world to see.
    There is so much childish foolishness in your post it would take a week to address it all, and even then you wouldn’t, couldn’t even remotely conceive what I was writing about.
    You simply don’t have the life experiences to cope. ///

    Amerloque is inevitably reminded of the words of the Immortal Bob Dylan in 1964. This fellow you’re writing to is a living example, 2010 vintage. (wide grin)

    Here we go !

    “My Back Pages

    Crimson flames tied through my ears
    Rollin’ high and mighty traps
    Pounced with fire on flaming roads
    Using ideas as my maps.
    “We’ll meet on edges soon,” said I
    Proud ‘neath heated brow …

    Ahh, but I was so much older then
    I’m younger than that now !

    Half-wracked prejudice leaped forth
    “Rip down all hate,” I screamed.
    Lies that life is black and white
    Spoke from my skull. I dreamed
    Romantic facts of musketeers
    Foundationed deep, somehow …

    Ahh, but I was so much older then
    I’m younger than that now !

    Girls’ faces formed the forward path
    From phony jealousy
    To memorizing politics
    Of ancient history
    Flung down by corpse evangelists
    Unthought of, though, somehow …

    Ahh, but I was so much older then
    I’m younger than that now !

    A self-ordained professor’s tongue
    Too serious to fool
    Spouted out that “liberty”
    Is just “equality” in school.
    “Equality !” – I spoke that word
    As if a wedding vow …

    Ahh, but I was so much older then
    I’m younger than that now !

    In a soldier’s stance, I aimed my hand
    At the mongrel dogs who teach,
    Fearing not I’d become my enemy
    In the instant that I preach.
    My existence led by confusion bodes
    Mutiny from stern to bow …

    Ahh, but I was so much older then
    I’m younger than that now !

    My guard stood hard when abstract threats
    Too noble to neglect
    Deceived me into thinking
    I had something to protect.
    “Good” and “”bad – I defined these terms
    Quite clear, no doubt, somehow …

    Ahh, but I was so much older then –
    I’m younger than that now !”

    (Sigh, then grin)

    (As Amerloque I invoke the Fair Use Provision(s) of the Copyright Act. All copyrights remain with the copyright holders.)


    Amerloque 20100730 09h00 Paris time (CET)

  3. Amerloque says:

    Hi Ozboy !

    /// You lot are posting faster than I can write new threads! ///

    The ransom of success !

    Amerloque 20100730 09h40 Paris time (CET)

  4. orkneylad says:

    Oz – can you blame us?…..we like it here……smells like freedom!


  5. Thanks to everyone posting so far and ozboy this a subject you may wish to deal with yourself at some point I just like to pose questions that make people think. Keep on posting and I shall get to them.

  6. manonthemoor says:

    Good morning

    Just a thought for the day

    Joining up some dots………………….

    ……………………………………….. Has the Guardian upstaged the DT?

    Following the observations by Old Toad (Buffo 75 as well?) on the previous thread and the comment by Oz. — I believe the Guardian has.

    The open debate with the George (freewales) blog and Andrew North in open comment, we have a major watershed, dare I say tipping point. It seems that the moderation policy is now tuned to open debate as well.

    With George as honest broker now rather than antagonist he and the Guardian will be able to steal the thunder of the JD blog.

    The DT have handed this opportunity to George and the Guardian by their stupid adoption of DISQUS and their ham handed moderation policy and unless the DT wake up very soon, the game will be lost and the JD initiative with it.

    This now explains in part why George joined the DT blog debate in conjunction with his UEA séance the other week, to position himself on that middle ground.

    I could be wrong, but such an unforeseen consequence of the DT actions could be the only thing that may change the DT to a sensible interactive solution.

    Over the next few weeks, the full implications may become clear.

    Man on the Moor

  7. Edward. says:

    manonthemoor says:
    July 30, 2010 at 6:16 pm

    You know Motm, I have harboured the same thoughts, if the CIF could just get off it’s high AGW horse and engage with realists, then the site is infinitely preferable to disgust.
    The DT are/have missed a trick and are losing input because of a stupid change, which they are exacerbating each hour that they persist with the disgust format.


  8. manonthemoor says:

    Edward. says:
    July 30, 2010 at 6:31 pm

    Morning Ed

    Interesting thoughts between us now, interesting times.

    Not good news though for JD

    You mentioned a granite folly on another post, the Staffordshire way perhaps?


  9. manonthemoor says:

    Just been to the JD blog

    Going so slow thought there was another new thread, only about 10 posts in ten hours.

    Is the writing on the wall?

    ps Ed just missed you in chat room

  10. orkneylad says:

    Mystery in the Gulf: The case of the disappearing oil

    This one is worthy of a Perry Mason novel. Call it The Case of the Missing Oil.
    ABC News questions the missing lubricant’s location:

    For 86 days, oil spewed into the Gulf of Mexico from BP’s damaged well, dumping some 200 million gallons of crude into sensitive ecosystems. BP and the federal government have amassed an army to clean the oil up, but there’s one problem — they’re having trouble finding it.

    At its peak last month, the oil slick was the size of Kansas, but it has been rapidly shrinking, now down to the size of New Hampshire.

    Why before long, it will be down to the size of Barack Obama’s ego.

    Today, ABC News surveyed a marsh area and found none, and even on a flight out to the rig site Sunday with the Coast Guard, there was no oil to be seen.

    “That oil is somewhere. It didn’t just disappear,” said Plaquemines Parish President Billy Nungesser.

    Salvador Cepriano is one of the men searching for crude. Cepriano, a shrimper, has been laying out boom with his boat, but he’s found that there’s no oil to catch.

    “I think it is underneath the water. It’s in between the bottom and the top of the water,” Cepriano said.

    First it was ClimateGate, then Al Gore’s hotel room escapade with an unwilling masseuse, and now they can’t find any oil to back up their claim that this is the worst disaster in the history of mankind.

    It’s almost enough to make you feel sorry for the environmentalists. (No angry emails, please. Note that we said “almost”.)

  11. manonthemoor says:

    July 30, 2010 at 7:25 pm

    Just been reading the DT take on the same thing:-

    Seems the cap n trade may die in the water as well.

    Feel sorry for the one pelican subjected to endless repeat views on our BBC

  12. manonthemoor says:

    The people that helped the DT with DISQUS seem to have infiltrated an ISP now

    All in the name of stamping out abuse (read free speech)

  13. manonthemoor says:

    Acid comments from Jeff Randall on DT

    Huhne C.

    Big head. Not as clever as he thinks. Spends far too much time playing with the girls. Needs to focus more. Supposed to be specialising in energy conservation, but succeeds only in producing hot air. Eager for us to know that he’s fabulously wealthy. Went to same prep school as Clegg.

    more here :=

  14. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Orkneylad & Manonthemoor

    “Mystery in the Gulf: The case of the disappearing oil”

    I read your respective links with interest.

    If my house was burgled and I lodged an insurance claim for expensive antiques, Ming vases and Chippendale furniture, and an investigation revealed I had never owned such items, I would be prosecuted for criminal fraud and thrown in prison.

    Is THIS why the security cordon was thrown around the coast and workers threatened with penalties on non-disclosure contracts?

    The only thing I know about oil is what’s on the dip-stick in my car engine, but even I could see the visual difference between the Exxon Alaskan disaster, the thick heavy coal-black sludge that heavily coated every nook and cranny of that rocky coast, and the bright red-brown gel-like substance that Bricko Bummer hunted around a beach for, and picked up in a little ball. It splashed and washed over the booms and seemed to have little cohesion.

    Could we possibly have a US Administration that is claiming compensation for damage that hasn’t/didn’t/couldn’t result from the very nature of the substance in the spill.

    For political/financial gain? Say it isn’t so.

  15. orkneylad says:

    Is THIS why the security cordon was thrown around the coast and workers threatened with penalties on non-disclosure contracts?

    Oh yes…….who ever heard of a ‘security cordon’ & controlled media access on previous spills?
    They’re shining shit & calling it ‘catastrophe’.

  16. manonthemoor says:

    20 billion dollars will help buy some seats at the mid term elections OR

    Perhaps I am just confused

  17. Blackswan Tasmania says:


    And all who know it’s a crock stand to make a buck from keeping quiet.

  18. macksflophouse says:

    MOTM, some 70 or more comments have been taken down from Bookers blog overnight and the the ranting and abuse from RR’s mate bje has been left. There is a sickness in the DT building. I think voodoo is the only way to cure it 🙂

  19. CriticalThinker says:

    I see WUWT has reached 50 Million unique hits…

    Anthony talks about the effort involved in keeping the site running and the impact it has had on his business and family life. He also has a lot to say about the the unruly behaviour, strong rhetoric, personal attacks etc. coming from both sides of the AGW argument.

    American Thinker have an interesting piece on how the MSM keeps in lock-step with their AGW comrades. The bit about not allowing sceptical view points because it would be ‘FALSE balance’ is rise-able.

  20. Pointman says:

    Hello CriticalThinker,

    Welcome to Ozboy’s Bar & Grill. Anthony’s a hero of mine and I only wish there was more I could do for him than just post and increase his moderation chores.


  21. manonthemoor says:

    Welcome CriticalThinker,

    Thank you for your contribution
    I noticed that you addressed your post to Oz, and I hope Oz finds time to read and absorb the WUWT post by Antony Watts.

    Today Oz WUWT is the big brother, but your blog goes from success to success, please do not let it take over your life, and consider a plan B for the future, using the help of others.


    I wrote a note of support and congratulations on WUWT; I can certainly relate to the sentiments he’s described – Oz

  22. Amerloque says:

    Currently having some fun chez Monbiot. (grin)

  23. Pointman says:


    Enjoy yourself there! It’s only a matter of time until they ban you like the rest of us …


  24. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    G’day Critical Thinker,
    Thanks for those links, each interesting and pertinent.

    WUWT is a bastion for credibilty and deserves his success and how about the press?

    The News Hour – 212 AGW stories and only 3 mention sceptics views. And this from a publicly funded news service. They have no shame, no integrity.

  25. Blackswan Tasmania says:


    I agree that Oz should make time to read Watts’ comments – the more successful he becomes, the more imposition on his family and business life.

    Oz, don’t let us take more of your time than we should.

  26. Pointman says:


    If and when the workload starts getting a bit too much, feel free to handoff bits for us to do.


  27. Locusts says:

    BJ the caveman grows some…

    He woke with a start. It was dawn, the air fresh and crisp. He was cold. With some effort, he pulled his legs in under his calves, stretched out his arms in front of him, hanging his head between his knees. There were clouds in the sky. Not many, just some, here and there, with pinkish undersides, reflecting the glow from the morning sun. Birds were chirping in the woods behind him, and the stream gurgling at his feet. It was all background noise, however, his legs dead from tracking the deer yesterday, and body weak from lack of sustenance, he just sat there, squatting and prone; letting one ache after another flow from one end of his body to the other, and back again.

    The fluttering of wings from somewhere behind him. He looked round, slowly and awkwardly, his neck stiff with sleep. A pheasant. It had landed not too far away, its blue head just visible amongst the grass. Hungry. There was that empty feeling again, his stomach had tightened since last night, there was no pain, just a wave of tiredness and weakness. He washed his face, rose to his feet and set off again towards the forest.


    He heard a growl in the distance, it must have been a wolf growl. Stopping in his tracks, he crouched behind a tree, the fingers of one hand splayed on the floor. Some distance away, in front of him, was a wolf. A great strong thing in the prime of its life. The wolf was alert, its hackles raised. Someway behind its hind legs cowering by a tree were a few wolf cubs. More sounds ahead. Twigs cracking and leaves crunching. Bear, he thought. Cautiously peeping from behind the tree, with his heart in his mouth, he saw it there; dead ahead and slowly pacing towards the wolf. The wolf crouched low and let out a warning growl. He looked at the cubs again. They were inching further away from the bear, in to the grass, away from their protector and closer, just slightly closer, to him. He put his flint in his mouth, and gripped the stone gently between his teeth. The wolf was still growling, and two of the cubs, hesitantly backing away in fear, wanting to be away from the threat, but not too far away from their mother were now just a stones throw away. His heart pounding in his chest, his hand trembling, and the colour draining from his face, he readied himself as best he could.

    He didn’t see it, his vision blurred by stress, but he heard it. The wolf had attacked. He splurted out unsteadily from behind the tree and grabbed the two wolf cubs nearest him by the scruff of their necks. Those two cubs yipped and yapped in alarm and their cries of distress must have distracted the mother at a critical moment. There was what may have been a thud, but he was not sure and didn’t dare look; and without him even realizing it, he found himself galloping in the direction of the stream. He was aware of little else apart from the wind howling in his ears, the tears streaming from his eyes, the blood pounding in his head and the furry masses that writhed in his hands and scratched at his arms and legs.

  28. CriticalThinker says:

    Hi All

    Quite often I take up the invitation to donate towards the running of blogs. I get so much more value from the better blogs out there compared to the banal offerings from the MSM that my conscience won’t allow me to do otherwise. I appreciate that donation is a private matter, but I would be interested to read other opinions on it. If external funding becomes necessary then where should it come from? Any thoughts?

  29. Pointman says:

    The Bar & Grill is my local now. I’d be happy to contribute to its upkeep.


  30. Edward. says:


    Faster and faster indeed!
    Doth the climate change, cyclical in nature it has ever been thus.

    The last desperate strategies are being played, “warmest ever year” cries the Delirium Tremen’s Louise Gray, that little trooper of the alarmist MSM propaganda mind ****.
    On the Beeb teletext this morning we have “warmest ever day in Moscow!” to pursue the meme and carry the banner of; “AGW is happening!”
    In Britain the weather is benign, not hot, not cool, just about July average 21-22 deg’C, August may be hot, Joe Bastardi says it will be for a week maybe, the ingredients are there, a constant run of anti cyclonic highs drifting across the country since spring.
    All it needs for really hot temps in Britain in August, is for a large anti-cyclone and a drift of winds from the East, dry winds, cloudless skies and very hot temps will ensue. Acuweather think it will occur, if it does the headlines I could write now; “Britain bakes in hottest year ever!” – the tabloids will scream.
    If it does so what, we have had hot weather before and will do so again, it will play into the alarmist camp’s hands though but will the public take any notice?

    The alarmists have cried wolf once too often, it was they who claimed that “we probably would never see snow again in Britain” – what a load of tosh! Recently we have had two very cold winters, luckily not much snow but lots of freezing nights, this year could be even colder, the signs are not good, we are in a downturn in world temperatures hence the strident cries of the warmists, “hottest year ever”.
    But wait a minute, in the USA they have had cool temperatures, on the mainlands of South America it has been very cold in Peru, Argentina and Bolivia, in Argentina the coldest for 40 years and in Aussieland it has been unseasonably cool too, the Antarctic sea ice goes from strength to strength, the Arctic melt is on course to be less than the last three years ie more ice at the pole.
    So what gives?
    Ah but you see it is the SSTs that count say the warmists, yes the El nino has been very warm, warmest since nearly 1998, this has raised world average temps to ‘levels not seen before’ hmmm, levels not ‘seen before’ – a weasel phrase and only according to NOAA and the Met office figures but so what?
    Warmest year ever, well not yet……the year has five months to run, La nina is now the dominant phase in the Pacific, we shall see.
    This is why the alarmists are shouting the odds now, they know the portents for warmest ever are going, going gone, all the signs are there, the PDO, the AMO and other signs like volcanic aerosols in the troposphere which will decrease the Sun’s power and of course most important of all, the Sun is quiescent and has been for many months, winter in the Northern Hemisphere is coming and it ain’t looking pretty.
    There are some who can still recall 1947 – a savage winter, heaven help us in Britain if we have a winter like that one, then memories of ‘warmest ever year’ will be scoffed at – as the cries of lunatics.

  31. Pointman says:

    Hi Ed,

    “Today, WWF scientists are working in more than 100 countries around the world …”. I wonder what type of result is produced by a ‘WWF Scientist’?

    They should have stuck to their Director of Communication’s line. “We know who you are, we know where you live” etc etc. If only they allowed comments about that article.


  32. orkneylad says:

    Ed – Nice posts……..posterity will laugh it’s arse off.


  33. Edward. says:

    I’ve said this before about the gulf oil spill, the spill is nothing (except to inshore fishing currently and sea birds but it will soon dissipate) and never was to a large warm sea area, the Gulf of Mexico is a vast area of water and currents.

  34. Edward. says:

    Pointman says:
    July 31, 2010 at 12:56 am

    Hi Pointy,
    WWF is not a byword for scientific rigour, still less………….. empiricism. These adenoidal eejits are dangerous, I wish they were a joke but they do have clout, that is the shame of it.

    Thank you OL!


  35. Pointman says:

    Goodish news from foreign shores. A blog in English from Northern Germany.


  36. manonthemoor says:

    July 31, 2010 at 12:44 am

    I saw 1947, it was a belter, snow drifts 6 to 8 feet high across roads, today impassable without snow machines not possible with toy plows.

    These people in there offices have never seen real weather, just simulated computer nonsense totally divorced from the real world.

    Time now to get started on making that sledge and snow shoes.

  37. Dave, Edinburgh says:

    Environmentalist Promotes warmist/Sceptic “Love In” Let’s kiss and make up, It’s “Hug a Warmist” week.

    “Jonathan Foley, director of the Institute on the Environment at the University of Minnesota, said leaders on climate change need to concentrate on changing behavior in ways that appeal to people — and also happen to reduce carbon emissions.

    “Climate scientists — stop talking about climate science. We lost. It’s over. Forget it,”

    “Environmentalists and climate deniers should stop fighting and take action they agree on, even if they approach the issue from different sides”

    Now why am I not convinced?

    Also of interest, it would seem that the long knives are out for Prof Judith Curry who has “jumped ship”.

    Prof. Curry says “They do not know with certainty how much of the warming that occurred in 20th century can be attributed to human activity. And the projections for warming for this century are not exact”
    “Alarmists lament that Prof Curry has jumped to the sceptic camp”. see article by one William M. Connolley. (He seems most upset)

  38. orkneylad says:

    Dave – Greens eating their own……love it.

  39. Edward. says:


    Good to read your posts, if anything upsets Connolley then it must be good, why Connolley is involved (Wiki bias, I know he has written some papers -all rot of the highest order) is any body’s guess, he is University educated and should have a sceptical eye, he is a stats man not a climatologist but if he ‘came over’ (got real) it would be mud in the eyes of the likes of his partners in crime at CRU and Penn’ State, not forgetting the eejit at GISS.

    Judith Curry, well I’m not really fussed, she does not count.

    As to the opening part of your post, I’d rather have tea with Himmler, Heydrich and Hitler and the lads of the RHSA.


  40. From my posting on the JD blog…We can all argue until we are blue in the face on the merits of this or that method of power generation, whether AGW is real or not.
    The elephant in the room is how do we get our politicians to listen to us for a change and do what the people want not what they in their total arrogance think is best for them politically and financially. They presume to know better than the rest of us on how we should behave according to their whim.
    I thought serfdom was long gone but I was mistaken.
    So if they refuse to listen to us and it matters little whom you vote for what can we do?
    They are hell bent on this agenda and they are not listening.

  41. fenbeagle says:

    That was an interesting link to that German blog. good news, (perhaps), for a change.

  42. Pointman says:

    fenbeagle July 31, 2010 at 3:31 am

    Hi Fen. He also runs a list of ‘climate’ scandals. Good ammo!


  43. Locusts says:

    Flint Eastwood, Part 3

    Close to the stream was an rocky outcrop. It was of head height, with sheer sides. He roughly threw the wolf cubs up on to it, and climbed up. The cubs landed roughly, frightened they rushed to the edges of the rock and abruptly halted. Too scared to jump down, yet too scared to move towards the middle, within arms reach of their captor.

    He examined the two cubs for a moment, his hand reached out, and hesitated. Then he grabbed the larger, more boisterous of the two and held it belly down against the rock, his foot steadying its back, his left hand around its neck. The smaller cub growled and snarled, trying to bite his fingers, but was not a nuisance, for it was unconfident and kept backing away out of fear. His flint clenched in his right hand, he raised his arm and swiftly stabbed down at the cub’s skull. The cub was still young, its bones still soft and growing; the thrust of the jab cut right through the skull and hit the rock underneath. The body slumped at the force of the blow, blood and a whitish liquid oozed out from within, flowing over his hand and pooling on the flat surface of the rock. The other cub whimpered and ran to the edge again, but to no avail. It was trapped, too scared to jump to freedom. Giddy with success, he fell down to his knees, one hand on the now dead cub and the other leaning against the rock. After a moment, his vision cleared and he looked up again, examining the flow of blood over his grimy hand. Exhausted he slowly raised his left hand to his mouth, and sucked that mixture of off dirt, sweat and wolf blood off. It was good, cloying and rich. He was so thirsty he could barely swallow it. He lifted the dead cub up, holding the punctured skull against his mouth, and let that warm life giving juice flow in. Then, he pulled it away for a moment, kissed the wet fur, and drank again..

    Putting the cub back down he strode to the stream, crouched down and washed himself, absent-mindedly watching red droplets fall from his mouth and beard, and from the scratches on his arms and legs in to the waters below, the blood of wolf and man, mixing, slowly swirling and then dissipating in a small eddy. He pushed two fingers into the water and swirled them around, and spat a red dart in to the middle of the pink halo that he had created in the water. He smiled and leant backwards; then with his face to the sky, he laughed with a mixture of relief and joy.

  44. manonthemoor says:

    Just watching the UK tv news tonight and the argument about the replacement Nuclear submarine fleet for 20billion pounds.

    If we could have inflatable lorries, buildings and tanks in WWII then surely some enterprising company can design four lookalike nuclear subs for 200K pounds.

    An Eco Sustainable AGW design == Carbon Neutral of course

    Located on the south coast for a change and capable of being propelled the other side of the Isle of Wight, then pull out the plug and submerged for around six months, before re-floating using compressed air cylinders.

    Job Done — Hopefully Fenbeagle can offer some plans for this exciting project.

  45. bjedwards says:

    ScouseBilly, wrote for all to see

    “By “denialists” do you mean “deniers”? They didn’t teach you English properly either.”

    I know you live by your fantasies but you should keep them to yourself.


    Wednesday, 17 March, 2010
    The 5 characteristics of scientific denialism.

    Reading this thread reminds me of the early days of 9/11 Denial when “Truthers” were so full of themselves denying every bit of scientific evidence around them inconvenient to their political goals. The screeching at we rational people was just as silly, arrogant, contradictory, and irrational.

    In the meantime, playing stump the band or post the normal? – Oz is fun. No one here has yet been able to articulate a coherent, rational reason, based on the sceince, of WHY they should choose to be against the overwhelming scientific evidence demonstrating that anthropogenic global warming is real and the associated risks of doing nothing.

    As with 9/11 Deniers and Holocaust Deniers, you climate science deniers only get the derision you ask for. You are subject of psychological studies but that’s all you end up achieving. See:

    “Unskilled and Unaware of It: How Difficulties in Recognizing One’s Own Incompetence Lead to Inflated Self-Assessments”

    Psychology, 2009, 1, 30-46. Published Online December 2009, (

    “People tend to hold overly favorable views of their abilities in many social and intellectual domains. The authors suggest that this overestimation occurs, in part, because people who are unskilled in these domains suffer a dual burden: Not only do these people reach erroneous conclusions and make unfortunate choices, but their incompetence robs them of the metacognitive ability to realize it. Across 4 studies, the authors found that participants scoring in the bottom quartile on tests of humor, grammar, and logic grossly overestimated their test performance and ability. Although their test scores put them in the 12th percentile, they estimated themselves to be in the 62nd.”

    You’ll continue for years and decades in the same state of denial, ignoring the ever-changing science, to grasp desperately to your political “goals”, and like 9/11 “Truthers”, never realize how you don’t know what you don’t know, and how extraordinarily gullible you are.

  46. Locusts says:


    Single, divorced, marital strife? Some kind of frustration at the very least. Ever thought about taking up a hobby, kayaking is most pleasant at this time of year, or so I’ve heard.

  47. Locusts says:

    “People tend to hold overly favorable views of their abilities in many social and intellectual domains. “

    Not in my case, quite the opposite in fact. Bye 吹笛。

  48. scud1 says:

    ‘Bjedwards goes shopping’

    The previous night, Bjedwards had begrudgingly conceded to himself that purchase of replacement cloths could be put off no longer.

    It’s almost the afternoon of the following day as Bj finally responds to the crippling pressure contained by his bladder. Throwing back the sheets, he hurriedly makes his way to the door, opens it by a hair and listens for the signs of other human activity from the communal bathroom.
    As was so often the case, the sound of splashing water and whistling reverberates down the corridor.


    Bj bangs his door shut again.
    Going knock kneed with desperation his eyes settle on the corner sink. No time for the usual construction of hard backed Marxist reading material to access the unusually high basin, Bj levers himself up on tip toe and just manages to clear the rim.


    Feeling more comfortable now but decidedly annoyed that his bi weekly shower had, for the immediate been denied Bjedwards begins to rummage around the floor bound detritus for his green canvas duffle bag.
    Ten minutes later, the thread bare sack is triumphantly yanked from beneath a pile of heavy components that perhaps one day were to become an Ikea shelving unit.


    Even though he’d been dreading the inevitable, procrastinating as much as he could bj now felt a strange sense of invigoration. Today was to be different, today was not yet another to be sat in front of the computer screen, bashing its crusty keyboard putting the world to rights. Today was a day where he would be out with a purpose, a mission…a real outdoors adventure!
    Excitedly, bj skips around in the buff from one corner of the room to the other, bending down every few seconds to retrieve various items of clothing which are then tossed onto the bed.


    BJ puts his hands on his hips and surveys the results of his initial efforts. He had no idea that he possessed so many garments.


    Second task was to sort…which to keep…which to take to Oxfam. BJ opens the end of his duffle bag.

    ‘Yes, yes, no, yes. No definitely not, absolutely not, yes, yes…God no…Oooh shit no.’

    Two minutes later and the voluminous sack is full to bursting, mostly with odd, holed socks and Y fronts that had been repeatedly exposed to excessive concentrations of bleach.
    Bj pulls the draw strings of the bag tight and quickly dresses from the pile of adjacent togs that had survived his brutal yet strangely liberating cull.

    Meanwhile, Jason Whitely, part time Oxfam shop keeper of Kentish town is busy applying the latest posters from high office to the inside of his windows.
    He didn’t agree with the message…in fact it enraged him that a charity largely funded by the good will of the people should have become so blatantly politicised and was seriously considering alternatives as a result.
    “You may think that climate change is a long way away…And you’d be right…about 5000 miles away.” Informed the poster, together with some small print about how Bangladesh was about to disappear underwater.

    ‘Wha’ a fuckin’ load of old cock.’ Mumbled Jason as the last wodge of ‘blu tac’ adhered paper to glass.

    Jason’s 60 odd years of age did nothing but enhance his gnarled, true East end boy appearance.
    Schooled in 1960’s Bethnal Green, worked the market stalls, made connections, criminal underworld, armed robbery. Wormwood Scrubs. Found Christianity, reformed…respected pillar of society.
    The small brass bell above the door rings and in struts young Bjedwards with his sausage shaped duffel bag slung over his shoulder.

    ‘Mornin’ guvnor’ Says Jason as he returns behind the sales counter.
    Bj gives him a cursory glance and sniffs.

    ‘Mornin’ guvnor.’
    ‘Oh…yeah, I suppose.’

    Bjedwards hoists his heavy, cutting load off his shoulder and lets it drop to the floor.

    ‘What yer got in there then guv?’ Asks Jason good naturedly.
    ‘None of your business.’
    ‘Oh…nuffin for us then…apologies guv. What yer fink of them posters then…saw ya givin’ ‘em a good old butchers.’
    ‘Climate change is the biggest threat that we face. It’s about time that Oxfam is at last beginning to wake up to the fact that there is actually a scientific consensus…again, not that it’s any business of yours knowing what I think.’
    ‘Oh…sorry guv…just wondering.’

    Jason folds his massively thick forearms over the counter top and returns, completely unruffled by Bj’s overt rudeness, to an article in ‘The Field’ magazine concerning the art pigeon decoys. Bj narrows his eyes toward the top of Jason’s lowered head.

    ‘Well seeing as you asked me…I’m going to ask you.’
    ‘What’s that guv?’

    Jason looks up, vaguely perplexed.

    ‘The posters…what do YOU think of them?’

    Jason lowers his head again.

    ‘Load of old Jackson’s mate.’
    ‘Jackson Pollocks.’
    ‘I presume that whatever it is you’re attempting to articulate is essentially derogatory?’
    ‘Certainly is mate.’
    ‘So you’re a denier.’
    ‘A what guv?’
    ‘A denier, a denialista. Denier denier denier!’

    ‘Pants on fire?’ Says Jason with total disinterest.

    ‘Oh, that’s a ‘clever’ retort…now let me see, how should I respond to something so mind numbingly puerile.’

    ‘Fuck off out of my shop?’

    ‘Ooh…An improvement on the first, yet still so vacuous. And pray tell me…DENIER…how, since you put it so eloquently, am I supposed to fornicate myself out of your pathetic little premises when there are, to the best of my knowledge no females present?’

    ‘I’ll show yer if you like.’

    ‘Oh please do, I’m so curious as to the depth of your wit and intellect I can hardly wait…Ah, I know! You have a second hand inflatable doll somewhere about your general displays of worthless tat…is that it?’

    Two hours later at St Thomas’s emergency operating room N06, Surgeon General Sir Peter Riley is satisfied with the anaesthetists work.
    OR 6 is the only theatre equipped with a 360 degree viewing gallery and it is jammed full to the rafters.

    ‘I mean in all my 30 odd years in the profession John, I don’t think that I have ever, ever witnessed anything quite like this.’

    ‘No, neither have I sir. I mean I’ve seen some odd things in my time…vacuum cleaner hoses, root vegetables, that kind of thing…but a duffel bag full of foul smelling washing!…my God, whatever next?’

    ‘Oh well…each to their own…Scalpel!’

  49. Locusts says:

    So many stories dedicated to you 吹笛, you could at least say thank you.

  50. Locusts I don’t think google translate does the above justice but I think I get the idea.

  51. Pointman says:

    Scud, our resident greenie pet has brought forth your finest work. A magnum opus. Author! Author!


  52. Amerloque says:

    “Man, proud man,
    Dressed in a little brief authority,
    Most ignorant of what he’s most assured,
    His glassy visage like an angry ape,
    Plays such fantastic tricks before high heaven
    As makes the angels weep”

    — William Shakespeare

  53. manonthemoor says:

    July 31, 2010 at 4:07 am

    Thank you, thank you, thank you.

    I live in hope that bje can match such skill in his reply.

    Then it will be my pleasure to buy you both a drink at the Oz virtual bar.

  54. Locusts says:

    No you are right, it seems that Google Translate is a little wanting in that department.

  55. Amerloque says:

    —>>> Hi Scud !

    Thank you for a wonderful real-life application of bje’s coffeetable psychobable ! (wide, wide grin) Bravo !


    Amerloque 20100730 20h20 Paris time (CET)

  56. Locusts says:

    Scud, I am gobsmacked. I’ve given my vocabulary a thorough enema, but still can not find the right word to describe the perfectness of your latest work!

  57. CriticalThinker says:

    More dots connected – the Biased BBC blog names ‘journalist’ Peter Thomson as secretary of the Society of Environmental Journalists (SEJ).

  58. Edward. says:

    Scud1 the master, we are all of us, forever in your shadow.

    BJE will you listen to yourself, simmer down girlie, chill have a benzodiazepine derivative tablet, buy a dictionary too.

    Yes we choose to anti AGW because it is a crock of shit, simple – look it up…..faeces.

    You are unable to articulate your beliefs because they are apostate, anti science and anti logic……….don’t tell me I know……..models predict!

  59. izen says:

    @-orkneylad says:
    July 30, 2010 at 5:45 pm
    “izen – I know I know, you prefer abstraction to empiricism……”

    I prefer empiricism and remain suspicious of abstraction. (its the Platonic dualism risk…)
    But Quantum mech is by FAR the more empirical field.
    Both experimentally and epistemological.
    The measured data and technical application of quantum physics is greater in amount and detail. It no accident that by far the biggest, scientific research ‘tool’ is concerned with quantum events. The LHC at Cern which is at present increasing its power to interesting levels –

    But rather more directly, the semiconductor technology we are using to communicate is squarely grounded in quantum mech.

    At the epistemological level, as Schroedinger’s original paper makes clear, quantum physics is all, and ONLY about what you can measure. Hypothetical abstractions like half living/dead cats are nonsensical, it what you can MEASURE that counts.

    “…I prefer to explore these so-called ‘new age’ theories that don’t break Maxwell’s Equations, or require other ‘universal laws’ to break down at sub-atomic level………call me old-fashioned, I prefer the open road to your cul-de-sac. [-grin] Does that make me new-fashioned? I have ‘NoIdea’”

    I hope Noidea is flattered that we use his rather neat name… its recognition that he has chosen something that is a very basic human trait!

    I take you point, in one sense quantum mech has little capacity for a ‘Quantum change’ in its understanding of the natural world. It has proved so exquisitely accurate, and its application so widespread that a major paradigm shift away from its established principles is no more possible that abandoning Newton gravity and mechanics with its field of application.

    But then…. The Higgs boson, it existence and the energy levels it functions at may reveal something new.
    There may come a time when the 500GeV level, and above with its ‘new’ quantum models are as familiar a context to those in the future as the near-c context that requires the post Newtonian GR/SR complexification of ‘standard’ mechanical engineering today.
    It ‘could’ be true… I tempted to say I have…….Nnnnn…

  60. orkneylad says:

    @izen –
    I think you are overselling the quantum aspect.
    Most ‘chip’ technologies are based upon “semiclassical” models, and quantum mechanics is only responsible for a few parameters in these applications. For example, in semiconductors, once you have the effective masses and mobilities of electrons and holes, you calculate transistors with them as if these were classical fluids.
    In laser applications, you only need to know the 3 (in fact 2) coefficients of stimulated emission, absorption and spontaneous emission in order to describe the medium, and then you use classical optics to consider the laser.
    Of course, you could also say that structural stability of building materials are quantum applications because ultimately that’s what’s describes their properties under stress, but once you have the elastic parameters of steel, you do a classical calculation, and I don’t see much difference with lasers or semiconductors in most of the applications.

    All thoroughly fascinating. 🙂

    OL, Izen: it certainly is fascinating, though a bit outside my ken. I’ve read of progress in nano-technology, with hopes of developing a monatomic quantum switch. Now THAT would be a game changer! – Oz

  61. CriticalThinker says:

    For Izen…
    Izen cried, “Dem warm memes!”
    Izen cried, “Dem warm memes!”
    Izen cried, “Dem warm memes!”
    “Oh, hear the word of the Goracle.”

    The UV warms the stratosphere,
    The IR warms the troposphere,
    The visible warms the lithosphere,
    The lithosphere warms the troposphere,
    The troposphere warms lithosphere,
    The lithosphere warms the troposphere,
    The troposphere melts the ice-cap,
    The melt water floods the lithosphere,
    Oh, hear the word of the Goracle!

    Dem memes, dem memes gonna go aroun’
    Dem memes, dem memes gonna go aroun’
    Dem memes, dem memes gonna go aroun’
    Oh, hear the word of the Goracle.

    Because I am not a number…

  62. CriticalThinker says:

    My link disappeared!

  63. CriticalThinker says:

    I guess Youtube is ‘verboten’?

  64. fenbeagle says:

    Manonthemoor The project you spoke of, is of course already underway. Being undertaken by a firm of Lincolnshire pork sausage producers, out on the Fens.
    Having already made some progress, in their efforts to produce Methane, and transport it effortlessly and without pipes, to the required power station. This would of course have been the first true ‘wind farm’ on the Fens, and involved sealing off a large pig ‘factory’, with just one outlet pipe from the roof….
    ”Oi was inspired in this, by watching a sausage machine”
    explains Factory owner Grayham Swillbucket.
    An order was placed with latex manufacturers Durex.
    ”This was an unusual order”
    explained a spokesman for the company
    ”But we rose manfully to the occasion. Our largest product before this, was the ‘King Size’ but at 525 feet, this certainly exceeds that!”
    ”The Germans may have their Zeppelin”
    says Graham Swillbucket
    ”But compared to this, they come off the wurst!”

    An early prototype test, however, revealed a flaw in the plan. That of navigating it to the site. It was hoped to solve this, by importing Vietnamese pot belly pigs.
    ”They are highly intelligent” explains mr Swillbucket and so we intend to train them to pilot the Sausalines, from baskets slung below.
    No success has been achieved thus far, however, but mr Swillbucket is still confident…
    ”Oi will have this working, just as soon as my pigs can fly” explains Grayham.

    It was some relief then, perhaps, when they recieved the Royal Navy contract for dummy submarines.
    ”I’m truly elated” said mr Swillbucket ”Up to know, the problem has been achieving enough lift, but now the problem is to sink them below sea level”
    Mr Swillbucket plans to achieve this, by tethering them loosely to a large whale
    ”We call this the ‘Free Willy”
    Explains mr Swillbucket.

  65. manonthemoor says:

    July 31, 2010 at 6:20 am

    Welcome to the verbal madhouse very good

  66. CriticalThinker says:

    I really hope this doesn’t happen…
    Next Dalton predicted –

  67. bjedwards says:

    You all are doing a fab job of illustrating my points for me, once again showing why one can never underestimate the intelligence of climate science deniers. And you all demonstrated that:

    “No one here has yet been able to articulate a coherent, rational reason, based on the science, of WHY they should choose to be against the overwhelming scientific evidence demonstrating that anthropogenic global warming is real and the associated risks of doing nothing.”

    It must be nice to live your lives unburdened by reality.

  68. NoIdea says:


    Quote “ScouseBilly, wrote for all to see”

    Well except for the blind, and those that cannot read, anyone without access to a computer, everyone that has never heard of this page etc etcetera.

    Copy paste copy paste
    Time to waste
    Denial denier
    Your pants are on fire
    And you are a liar

    If you truly had read this thread as you claim, you would have noticed an excellent post by izen, while I do not always agree with his point of view, describing it as silly, arrogant, contradictory and irrational is just a tadge rich coming from you.

    In your guise as savior of the universe from the evil forces of denialismists, if I say that I deny that aliens did 9/11 you will insist they did?

    If I deny that it is getting colder, you will insist that I am an extraordinarily gullible fool and of course it is getting colder?


  69. orkneylad says:

    BJ –

    Temperature changes (from ice cores) match changes in solar activity. Changing solar activity explains the dip after 1940 and the more recent rise. Surprisingly obvious that the Sun is driving climate change and CO2 is less or largely irrelevant. The graphs produced from ice core research seem to show if anything, that C02 increases lag behind temperature rises by 800 years, not the other way round. Probably C02 is being released by warming of the oceans.

    How simple do you want it?
    You come late to the party & all the best food has been scored already……..nothing but cold porridge from now on.

  70. bjedwards says:

    NoIdea, you indeed have no idea.

    No one can save deniers from themselves. You have no clue that climate science deniers are denying the overwhelming empirical evidence, the very science. You are clueless that it has nothing to do with who says what.

    Get a grip on science and reality, man

  71. bjedwards says:

    orkenylad, not paying attention, wrote for all to see:

    “How simple do you want it?”

    Is it far too difficult for you to address the issue on the table? It must be since you keep evading it.

    One more time, laddy. Pay attention this time, Read slowly and carefully:

    “No one here has yet been able to articulate a coherent, rational reason, based on the science, of WHY they should choose to be against the overwhelming scientific evidence demonstrating that anthropogenic global warming is real and the associated risks of doing nothing.”

  72. manonthemoor says:

    July 31, 2010 at 7:35 am

    AGW is a scientific, political and financial scam.

    There is nothing to add

  73. Pointman says:

    Hey you guys! Don’t upset the gimp. You know he’s helpless without his script. We want to keep him around. Every Bar has to have a pet. He’s our greenie pet.


  74. orkneylad says:

    BJ – Ok let’s ‘get a grip’ as you say………what field of science do you have formal qualifications in?
    [My qualifications are in Electro-Mechanics].

    If you have no formal science background, why do you ‘believe’ the orthodoxy without question?
    What ‘one thing’ was it that convinced you to be a ‘believer’ in the CO2 hypothesis?
    Are you frightened because your world-view is crumbling, or because the slant of your ‘online real estate’ is starting to look like a rather foolish position?

    Do you need help with your delusion?
    I suggest a diet of Ficino & figs for the next three months.

  75. NoIdea says:


    I deny that you cannot save me! I deny that I do not have no clue that climate science deniers are denying the overwhelming empirical evidence, the very science.
    I am well aware that it has nothing to do with who says what. (Especially you!)
    Nature will decide according to the laws of physics, no matter how strong you think your grip on reality is, the science will put paid to your pathetic ramblings and witterings.
    Do you actually have any original thoughts? Or are you too busy gobbing off about how great you are because you believe some scientists that you agree with (Cue copy, paste)

    As for your repeated mantra…
    “No one here has yet been able to articulate a coherent, rational reason, based on the science, of WHY they should choose to be against the overwhelming scientific evidence demonstrating that anthropogenic global warming is real and the associated risks of doing nothing.”
    You really are a supercilious twaddle monkey are you not?
    Go away and read a lot, get up to date with the “current research” then come back to Ozs and start at the beginning, IF you can even understand one tenth of the information contained you will have raised your intelligence quota dramatically.

    Your anaclitic tendencies have been noted, will you ever find a cure?


  76. orkneylad says:

    BJ – Wow did you even read my posts above. LMFAO

    Read s l o w l y [I know reading’s hard, especially if you’ve never used dead-tree tech before].

    Temperature changes (from ice cores) match changes in solar activity.
    [still with me? re-read if you need to]

    C02 increases lag behind temperature rises by 800 years.
    [warming induces CO2 release, not the other way around]

    Man’s CO2 contribution = apprx 0.3% of atmosheric Co2
    [btw that’s a SMALL figure… understand numerical percentages?]

    Doubling CO2 = 0.7C increase [latest research, Lindzen/Choi 2010]

    How long to double CO2? hundreds of years.

    Keep taking the figs.

  77. Green Sand says:

    Good Morning all

    BJedwards, whereabouts do you reside?

  78. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    FORMER U.S. Vice President Al Gore will not face criminal charges over allegations he groped an Oregon massage therapist nearly four years ago.

    Who was in charge of this “investigation”? Lord Oxcube? Will we see the latest Porsche parked in the DA’s driveway?

  79. Edward. says:

    Richard Black works for the Beeb, Jeez what a cretin!

    Have a gander at this bollocks:

    And talking of fuckwittedness:

    Are these our opponents? Bring on some opposition……….ah but this is all they’ve got!

    Moonbat/Huhne/AlbertGore/Hansen…….Black/BobWard/Jonesy………they’re all divs – BJE you’re in good company, the company of fools and jackals.

    Div: Actually originates from prison slang in the UK. A job often given to the lowest inmates was to put cardboard dividers into boxes. Someone given this job was a ‘divider’ or a ‘div’. Now used as an insult to those who display stupidity – perfect!

  80. Edward. says:

    Blackswan Tasmania says:
    July 31, 2010 at 9:16 am

    Mornin’ Swanny!

    How’s the flu? Better I hope!

    OK, but Tipper knows there is some shit out there Swanny and shit sticks like…well shit.


  81. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Farmers cast doubt on Coalition’s climate plan

    “Mr Hunt told the Herald the Coalition’s ”direct action” climate strategy – designed to achieve the same 5 per cent reduction in Australia’s emissions by 2020 as is promised by Labor – would be legislated by the start of next year.”

    This surely proves that Australians have ZERO choice when it comes to AGW schemes.
    ALL Parties are in on the act, and we’ll pay whoever we vote for.

  82. Pointman says:

    Green Sand July 31, 2010 at 9:05 am

    Up his own fundament seems to be the prevailing view …


  83. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    G’day Ed,

    The ‘flu? No, can’t shake it but kind of you to ask.

  84. Edward. says:


    I post this because it has always interested me because even in the eighties I thought we were being sold a sh*t load of a crock full.
    As the posters say, eerie parallels with AGW.


  85. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Support for ETS dwarfs backing for assembly

    “A SOLID majority of voters supports an emissions trading scheme but only a minority backs the citizens’ assembly that the government plans to establish to help build a community consensus for the scheme.”

    As far as Oz media is concerned, AGW is a “done deal”, Inquiries have cleared all Climategate questions, the world is in peril, and the Govt is gonna fix it.

    Phew!! I’m so relieved.

  86. Edward. says:


    Sad to hear that mate, gotta get some anti biotics maybe?

    I asked because sometimes I have bad chest infections which take a long time to shift, I recently had an op’ on my abdomen (hernia), I also had a slight cold which went on to my chest, it was fun, so much so, that I had to stop reading Scud1’s posts!


  87. Edward. says:

    “A SOLID majority of voters supports an emissions trading scheme”

    Can’t really believe that.


  88. Edward. says:


    OL is there something you should be telling us?
    On DT blogs there is someone calling itself Orkney Gal!
    Or are you related?
    It is a good post anyway.



  89. Edward. says:

    Mornin here but it’s way too late too, time to sign off.

  90. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    “Kingscliff Beach on the NSW north coast is a shadow of its former self. Over the past six weeks, the access road through Faulks Park joined the pandanus trees and crumbled into the ocean in a dramatic erosion collapse ………. attention is turning from the plight of private residences in coastal erosion zones to the fate of public infrastructure, such as roads, in the face of rising sea levels and severe storms. Coastal councils are now calling for a centralised ”future fund” to deal with infrastructure loss through climate change-induced coastal erosion.”

    None of the articles published on this, and none of the local “officials”, are ever going to tell you that a lot of damage has been done to many coastal tidal flows because of the massive breakwaters that have been built over recent decades using a gazillion tons of rock and concrete, marinas built for luxury yachts at luxury resorts (often foreign-owned), and other measures that have warped/changed/interfered-with (don’t know the right terminology) the dynamics of natural tidal surges.

    Now they want taxpayer cash for a “future fund” to “fix” their problems, and AGW is a really convenient excuse.

  91. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Balance sheets need a splash of green ink

    [businesses are ”absolutely” capable of reporting on their environmental impacts.
    ”Not only are they capable, nobody understands the company’s impacts on the environment more than the company itself.”
    It has to be compulsory, enforced by the accounting standards and backed up by law.]

    That’s just what we need. An economist from the Deutsche Bank who “in 1990 bought a defunct cattle ranch at Tarzali on the Atherton Tablelands in Queensland. Sukhdev and his partners turned it into a profitable ecotourism venture called The Canopy.”

    Nobody knows how profitable eco-tourism is if it’s not this character who is profiting most handsomely from this little venture……. Check it out

    A German flag appears on the top-right of this web-page, and a pop-up advertisment is for the Sun Herald, the Sunday edition of the SMH, none other than the publication (above) which is giving this character and his ventures such exposure.

    Vested interests? Nevah!!!

  92. Blackswan Tasmania says:


    A hernia? Is that what your mention of “stitches” meant the other day? I didn’t like to ask at the time, could have been anything.

    I’ll tell you how I know you’ll be fine.

    In the 1920s when my mother was little, they lived in the country. Granny ( a WWI widow raising her kids alone), had a little fox terrier dog that had been after the neighbour’s chickens. Doggy got shot for his endeavours and limped home to Granny with a hole in his belly, and “bits” hanging out.

    He must have had great faith in Granny’s ministrations and let her “fix” him. She poked the sticky-out bits back in with her finger and sewed him up with a needle and cotton thread.

    She nursed him back to health and he lived to a ripe old age.

    Moral of the story is; a dog’s implicit faith in his owner, an Australian countrywoman’s stoicism and ingenuity, and a modern bloke’s expectation of full recovery when his sticky-out bits are fixed….LOL

    Best wishes for your good health ED.

  93. memoryvault says:


    Yes, there are very specific parallels between the “ozone hole” myth, and AGW.

    “The Green Hoax Effect”, published in January 1990, was ultimately a collection of articles written in my newsletter “The Inside News” between 1986 and 1988. The book itself was divided into three parts: “The Green-Hoax Effect”, “The Great Unleaded Petrol Myth”, and the “The Ozone Hole Scam”.

    In brief, there ARE no “holes” in the ozone layer, simply because there IS no ozone “layer”. The only place an ozone “layer” exists is as an imaginary construct to allow the calculation of overall ozone levels in the atmosphere, and compare those levels, one place to another. As such, the ozone “layer” is as “real” as the “two dimensional plane extending in all directions to infinity”, that allows for our geometry axioms (definition of a point, line, parallel lines etc).

    Ozone concentration is measured in “Dobson Units” on a “Dobson Spectrophotometer”, or an updated version of same. A Dobson Unit is the amount of ozone in a column of air from ground level all the way out to the edge of the atmosphere. For the purpose of calculation it is then ASSUMED that all those molecules of ozone are then compressed into a “layer” at sea level. By comparing this ASSUMED thickness in different places, one can say there is “more” or “less” ozone in the atmosphere at a certain place, from sea level to the outer edge of the atmosphere.

    This ASSUMED “layer” – created entirely as a mathematical construct, is the only “real” layer of ozone there is.

    Ozone is an allotrope of oxygen – O3. Basically, oxygen as we know it is O2 – two atoms of O get together and form a fairly stable relationship. However, if a little energy is applied the two O atoms get all excited, split up, and then reform as a threesome – O3 (like some marriages). But O3 is pretty unstable, and very quickly loses the additional energy required to maintain that state, and disintegrates back to the more stable O2 again (also like some marriages).

    The energy to allow O2 to become O3 can come from many sources. However, the most common source is good old sunlight. And since we have O2 rising up from the surface of the planet, up through the atmosphere, and sunlight reaching us from outer space, it stands to reason that the place where MOST O3 is formed is where these two meet – at the edge of the atmosphere. This is where people erroneously think the mythical “ozone layer” exists.

    It also stands to reason that, if there is a lack of oxygen or sunlight, there will be less ozone. And guess what folks, for some months of the year there is NO sunlight at the southern polar regions (southern hemisphere winter), and a similar effect in the north polar regions during the northern hemisphere winter. It is no accident that the horror stories about the dreaded “ozone hole over Antarctica”, always appear in September, at the end of the southern hemisphere winter.

    Back in the 1950’s there was a very bright man called Professor Gordon Dobson. Professor Dobson fully understood the ENTIRELY CYCLICAL NATURE of ozone depletion over the poles during their respective winters, due to the lack of sunlight.

    Professor Dobson also believed there were high level air currents which he called “slipstream currents”. He wanted to prove the existence of these currents, but it is very hard to “tag” some air and see where it goes.

    So he devised an experiment: by rights, there should have been little or no ozone over Antarctica during winter (no sunlight). However, the good doctor postulated that there would be, because it would be brought in by his theorised “slipstream currents”.

    All he needed was a way of measuring ozone concentrations. So he invented the Dobson Spectrophotometer and the Dobson Unit. Then he spent the winter of 1957 at Antarctica measuring the flux of ozone concentration in the atmosphere. From its varying densities he was able to prove both the existence of his slipstream air currents, and produce the first maps of their directions. 1957 was the “International Geophysical Year”, and for his efforts Dobson was named “International Geophysical Man of the Year” (sorry ladies and women libbers, that was the name of the award).

    In 1962 he co-wrote a book about it all called “Exploring The Atmosphere” which was one of my science textbooks at high school. Incidentally, you will learn very little of the above from googling “Professor Dobson” or “Dobson Unit”. The “official” story of Dobson now available on the net is so far divorced from the reality as to render the current version little more than fairy tale.

    When DuPont Chemicals invented chloroflourocarbons (CFC’s), the company was still very much controlled by the DuPont Family. They realised the implications of cheap refrigeration for the world and allowed CFC’s to be produced under licence by other companies at a peppercorn fee.

    By the early 1980’s Dupont Chemicals was controlled by the Canadian/American Bronfmann Family, which made its fortune during the prohibition by bootlegging. The family patriach, Edgar Bronfmann did not like the fact that the company was “losing” money from the sale of CFC’s. Bronfmann had Dupont’s research department pretty much “invent” the entire CFC “holes in the ozone layer” myth, complete with bought and paid for peer-reviewed papers (sound familiar?).

    Bronfmann then spent a fair bit of money financing greenie groups, mobilising them to “protest” against the “terrible” CFC’s that were “destroying” the ozone layer (also sound familiar?). In 1987 Bronfmann personally financed a greenie groupie event in Montreal, out of which came the infamous “Montreal Protocol”, calling for the banning of CFC’s. The rest is history.

    Oh, did I mention that, at the same time all this was going on, Bronfmann had his labs developing “politically acceptable” alternatives to CFC’s?

    The banning of the original CFC’s, produced cheaply all over the world, to be replaced by DuPont’s “new, ozone friendly” alternatives, handed Bronfmann a virtual monopoly on the world refrigerant market, estimated in 1988 to be sixteen billion dollars a year.

    His total outlay financing greenie groups to make it happen, including picking up the entire tab for the Montreal Meeting, was around US $250 million total.

    Not a bad return on investment, eh?

  94. izen says:

    @- bjedwards
    “One more time, laddy. Pay attention this time, Read slowly and carefully:
    “No one here has yet been able to articulate a coherent, rational reason, based on the science, of WHY they should choose to be against the overwhelming scientific evidence demonstrating that anthropogenic global warming is real and the associated risks of doing nothing.”

    If you have been reading the posts attentively (though why anyone would bother is obscure!) here you may realise that as the resident ‘greenie’ you and I are ostensibly on the same side.

    Perhaps a parallel situation, with which I have some familiarity, will illustrate why your approach has very little traction.

    On the discussion blogs, groups and forums about evolution -v- creationism you could make EXACTLY the same accusation. That no one on the creationist ‘side’ had articulated a scientific reason for rejecting the scientific evidence. When I first started participating in such discussions I may have been naive enough to make the same argument – with just as little effect.

    Now it can be emotionally satisfying to feel you have won the argument because no one can respond to your point, but I think then you just have two sides talking past each other rather than TO each other.

    People who hold creationist views, or at least anti-evolutionist views may not be well informed about the “overwhelming scientific evidence demonstrating that Darwinian evolution is real”, but what they DO know is that-
    1) The science is never a definitive final answer, always a ‘work in progress’.
    2) Unlike their own beliefs, the science does not provide a simple unified easy to grasp narrative that explains the knowledge they do have.
    3) The science is (both in their perception and realty) being used to advocate ethical, ideological and political concepts which they profoundly disagree with.

    All of these factors are in play with anti-AGW views of course.
    And all are factors in why people may not automatically surrender to the “overwhelming scientific evidence demonstrating…” well whatever you think it demonstrates.

    BY all means correct scientific error when it arises.
    But don’t expect that showing people they have made a particular mistake about an aspect of the science will ‘convert’ them. You have failed to address their issues with the narrative uncertainty and complexity of the science, and done nothing to deal with the deeper challenge it makes to their beliefs about the (mis)use of the science to advocate policy and a world-view with which they profoundly disagree.

    In creation/ID/evolution discussions making a flat statement that the science is in, and that they should accept it because its the SCIENCE will just get you the equally polarized response that the WORD of the Bible/Torah/Koran is equally definitive and you are wrong…
    The discussion divides in two absolutetist camps that generally degenerates into belligerence.

    We all have our version of ‘Morton’s demon’ that is an unconscious gatekeeper for our beliefs. I’m here to challenge my own as much (if not more) than to challenge the demons of those here. (please google Morton’s demon if the reference is obscure!)

    If you are here to try and overcome the gatekeeper of concepts of the other posters here you may want to reconsider your strategy. What has persuaded you to change your views in the past MAY work for others, but expecting people to abandon deeply held views because of the “overwhelming scientific evidence demonstrating ‘something’ is real” fails to engage with the fact that not everybody accepts the absolute authority of science, or is willing to jettison core ethical concepts on the word of a social endeavor which is apparently being used to oppose their most deeply held beliefs about society, politics and ethics.

    My own deeply held belief is that we are all constrained by the reality of what NATURE does. Therefore it behoves us to find out to the best of human ability what the material universe IS doing because that is the constraint within which any other belief, action or response must exist.

    As in evolution/creation discourse much of the conflict arises because one side rejects the science because of the support it appears or is used to give to beliefs/ideologies they strongly oppose.
    The other rejects the beliefs/ideologies of their opponents because they appear to conflict with the science.

    If both could separate the issues and discuss JUST the beliefs/politics, or JUST the science there would be much less disagreement. But because BOTH sides consider the two are inextricably linked this rarely happens.

    It is as futile to try and use science to counter another persons’ deep beliefs, as it is to use deep beliefs to argue against the science.

    Think a little more deeply about what views you are trying to change, and what views your approach is actually engaging with. Unless you sole aim is to score points on your personal ‘I’m right-they are wrong’ measure you might find a better way of achieving your ends.

  95. memoryvault says:

    Oh you gotta love it.

    The Resident Idiot is mentoring the Toilet Mouth on how to lecture us “denialists” on the “science” of AGW.

    Fenbeagle there has GOT to be a cartoon in there somewhere.

  96. izen says:

    @- memoryvault –
    “…Bronfmann had Dupont’s research department pretty much “invent” the entire CFC “holes in the ozone layer” myth, complete with bought and paid for peer-reviewed papers (sound familiar?).”

    Are you claiming the measured reduction in ozone using the Dobson Spectrophotometer is fraudulent or that the role of CFC’s in shifting the dynamic balance of the equation –

    3(O2) <> 2(O3)

    Towards the right is fraudulent ?

    Or both?!

  97. Blackswan Tasmania says:


    Brilliant, understandable (even to a lay-person like me), and eminently logical to anyone with more than one active brain cell.

    Sincere thanks and congratulations,

    “Bullseye!! – Give the man a kewpie doll”. In the circus of AGW Myth & Legend.

    And Shut Up oxygen thief!!!

  98. Amanda says:

    Blackswan: I’ve become your Friend on Facebook. It feels a bit strange, like getting your ears pierced or realizing that you actually rather like Richard Nixon (not that I’m suggesting a similarity with that prez.). I left commments. What a surprise.

  99. memoryvault says:


    CFC molecules are roughly five times denser than air (assuming 80% N, 20%O). That’s about the same density relationship as a housebrick to water.

    Housebricks don’t float on water, idiot, and CFC’s don’t magically “float up” to the outer reaches of the stratosphere.

    The only place where they ever did was – are you ready for for it fellow readers – in a COMPUTER MODEL constructed by Messrs Rowland and Molina of the University of California, in 1974.

    Oh, I forgot – I’m replying to the idiot, to whom computer models are sacrosanct – more believable than even mere observable facts.

    Sorry – I was forgetting myself.

  100. Memory Vault well I learn something new everyday now what about the lead in petrol story?

  101. Locusts says:

    Good job on the pep talk! This Bj is going to need some serious training, otherwise, before long, nobody will even bother reading his posts!

  102. memoryvault says:


    Sorry, only one story a day otherwise it becomes a chore instead of fun.

    Maybe tomorrow pm my time with Ozboy’s permission?

    Sure – Oz

  103. memoryvault says:


    You READ blow-jobs posts ?????????

  104. memoryvault says:



    The reality is, if one could build giant vacuum cleaner and “suck up” all the ozone out at the edge of the stratosphere, just as much would be forming in the cleaner’s wake as sunlight hit more oxygen and energised it. It’s simply a zone of “effect” where two things meet each other, much like the surf where the ocean meets the land.

    The ONLY two ways the process could ever be stopped, is if the sun stops shining, in which case we’ve got about a week, or oxygen ceases to be formed at the earth’s surface, in which case we’ve got about three minutes.

    Either way I don’t think we’d be worrying too much about a theorised increase in skin cancers over the following couple of decades.

  105. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Looking forward to your next “installment”.

  106. Locusts says:


    Well I would do if they didn’t send me so cross-eyed.

  107. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Glad we “hooked up” on Facebook. Oz suggested a while back that we establish a page for exchanging photos etc, especially since we all live in different parts of the world.
    Crownarmourer also has a page with photos of his “backyard” too. Good stuff.

  108. Locusts says:


    Your post on ozone, very very interesting.

  109. Blackswan been trying to remember how to upload more pictures to my facebook account got some great pictures of the Rockies and the Great plains, facebook is not user friendly.

  110. Blackswan more holiday snaps out west on facebook.

  111. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Found your “stuff”, great pics. Now I know why Walt calls it Arsebook, it’s a mongrel to figure out if this whole process is new.

    Never mind, I’ll keep giving it a go.

  112. Blackswan I could spend months out there with a good camera taking pics I’m a geologist by training and always looking for some feature to photograph it’s awesome the missus granny knew Teddy Roosevelt as a personal friend and he did a lot to preserve the west from being destroyed with the national park system. a decent guy apparently.
    If I could I’d move to Denver where you can still eat a good steak and a lot of good dining from many different cultures.
    Also the secret bunker is located under Denver International so could be good to be close by. Let the rich enter and concrete the entrances when whatever they are scared of happens. If I’m going to die I’m taking them with me.

  113. Locusts says:

    Flint Eastwood, Part 4

    He walked away from the stream, and glanced up at the rock, he could just make out the living wolf cub lying by its dead sibling. It was wimpering slightly. He scouted around for mosses, twigs, bark and other material that could act as tinder and kindling. It did not take long, and he soon had enough material to not only start a fire, but to keep one going for a few hours. An eagle circling ahead made him start back to the rock, to secure his new found wealth. On his return he found the live cub licking at the pool of blood that had formed in a depression in the rock. He threw the dead cub down to the ground below and again grasped the other by the scruff of its neck, then gingerly jumped back down. The live cub resisted and squirmed, but without its earlier vigour, overwhelmed by the trials of the day.

    He was good at making fires, not as good as the old one, who although he moved slowly and could not see very far, always seemed to be able to make a fire. He had even seen the old one make a fire in the rain! It was not raining today, and the midday sun was strong; he built the fire with little effort. After a short while smoke turned to sparks and sparks turned to flames. The live wolf cub was not too far behind him, bewildered and tired and did not attempt to run away. Instead, it lay snuggled next to its dead sibling, part trying to guard it, and part for reassurance.

    The flames licked skywards, hungrily devouring the kindling. He reached behind him and grabbed the dead wolf cub. the other jumped to its feet, snarled and bit at his fingers. He swatted it away, and the cub retreated to what it felt to be a safe distance, and lay there watching.

    Expertly, his flint attacked the cubs body. He smashed its paws and sliced open the fur along the bellly. Derobed, he skewered the naked cub on the stick that he had just whittled clean. Then patiently held the cub over the fire. Every now and then, he glanced behind him, and each time, the living cub had inched closer, attracted by the fur of its sibling, and the smell of cooking meat.

  114. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Found some new pics for my album. I’ll see if I can send them to you. I’ll give it a go.

  115. fenbeagle says:

    hi Memory Vault
    I would rather illustrate your Ozone Layer piece, it would be much more worthwhile. I have been told several times, that we have to have wind turbines…. ‘Because of the hole in the Ozone layer’.
    …….The humour in the BJ ‘effect’ needs no additional effort.

  116. That would be good, your pictures are better than mine. Photography is not a hobby of mine but I think I get it about getting that special picture that says beauty.

  117. blackswan we had some pretty awesome sun sets back home but never thought once to capture it on film or the dawn either.

  118. suffolkboy says:

    [Repeated here, after accidental posting to obsolete previous thread. Sorry.]
    Can I put in a word of caution? There seem to be some mathematical or scientific issues being touched on by regulars, usually in a quick-off-the-mark response to a transient troll or three. I am concerned that to my eyes these may contain either slips, over-simplifications, mis-simplifications, or fundamental errors of understanding. While this is hardly in itself going to overthrow climate scepticism or confuse either camp, it give trolls considerable material to continue trolling. In essence, if we accidentally post here “2+2=5, hence AGW is bunk” the trolls will post “BWHAHAH these sceptics are so stoopid they can’t do basic arithmetic, or spell Doomsday, hence AGW is totally vindicated” and then proceed to cut and paste the embarrassing error from here to the wider world. (At a higher level, this tends to be what the two camps are doing to each other anyway, but wrapped in complexities and red herrings.)

    The areas of particularly thin ice to my mind are the no-such-thing-as-an-ozone-layer, and the Stefan’s Law dispute (which is a red herring), both of which could lead to vast quantities of postings which divert us from the real issue of how to keep the lights on after 2015, but I expect there are others.

    Having said that, I have met teenagers who seriously tell me that there is an irreplaceable layer of 100% pure ozone about 10cm thick high up in the atmosphere which was put there at the time the Earth was created and which we are destroying at the poles and next year all the Australians will die of skin cancer. This is the sort of misunderstanding that I have to put right.

    Thanks for the CFC info regarding shenanigans. In my “How Science Works” lessons I probably ought to refer to “How Science *Really* works” and get authenticated examples of how salesmen have for centuries deliberately seek to deride their competitors products by spreading conjecture of risk of harm; similarly patent expiry wars.

    To straighten out Stefan’s Law misunderstanding I shall have to get my old text books out and pour myself something stronger than my first morning cup of tea.

    In meantime: shhhh! Trolls are everywhere. Time for my breakfast, and then a private study period on Stefan, CFCs, and the buoyancy of bricks made out of CFCs.

  119. suffolkboy while the science arguments are good being a geologist understanding deep time tells me it’s Hookum. The real battle is politics and money and control follow the money and see who benefits and who funds what and why. Get political it is the only way we can win.

  120. Blackswan Tasmania says:


    You suspected there might be “photographic/filmic abracadabra” going on in my album.

    Basic digital camera, very basic average photographer, you see what I see. Great isn’t it?

  121. izen says:

    @-memoryvault says:
    July 31, 2010 at 2:17 pm
    CFC molecules are roughly five times denser than air (assuming 80% N, 20%O). That’s about the same density relationship as a housebrick to water.
    Housebricks don’t float on water, idiot, and CFC’s don’t magically “float up” to the outer reaches of the stratosphere.”

    So you think that like CO2 they all sink to rest on the ground?
    You might want to revise the difference between a liquid (like water) and a gas (like the atmosphere). Hint, stratification of mixing ratios.

    Quote-“The only place where they ever did was – are you ready for for it fellow readers – in a COMPUTER MODEL constructed by Messrs Rowland and Molina of the University of California, in 1974.”

    There are actually three methods apart from more recent satellite data that have been used to detect just how much CFCs are present at various altitudes in the atmosphere;

    1) Balloons –

    2) rockets –…77D

    3) Aircraft, this is my favourite, they use an ex-US spy plane!

    By the way, if you think my post to bjedwards was solely for his edification I think the term ‘idiot’ certainly applies to one of us.

    The Izen Conjecture again? – Oz

  122. fenbeagle says:

    Thanks for posting those MGW’s, all in one place, Crown Armourer

  123. Blackswan you photo shopped it all admit it you don’t live somewhere so nice.

  124. orkneylad says:

    Edward. 9:49 am:

    lol Nowt to do wi’ me mate!…….are we attracting a fan-base?
    I see terribleturk was giving Chivers & damocles a bashing….good job.

  125. Edward. says:

    orkneylad says:
    July 31, 2010 at 6:02 pm

    I had to rub my eyes OL – LOL!


  126. memoryvault says:


    Go for it. “Greenhoax” was only ever a “layman’s guide”, and in fact, was more about who was making the money rather than about the science. Any corrections and/or updates greatly appreciated (remember, the original articles were written nearly a quarter of a century ago – we’ve learned a bit since then).

    Having said that, Greenhoax included an appendix with all the actual maths and physics involved in areas touched on in the book, and came with the offer of an AUD $1,000.00 prize to anybody showing the maths or physics were flawed.

    That was great for sales. Every left-wing trendie high school teacher and university lecturer in OZ added it to their required reading textbook list with the specific aim of discrediting the book.

    In 1998, when I got out of “freedom fighting” completely, the prize remained unclaimed.

  127. Blackswan Tasmania says:


    As an Aussie descendant of Welsh/English immigrants, I must say, most of us are riddled with skin cancer in varying degrees. We have been variously “scalpeled”, cauterized, “frozen” into a montage of scar tissue that has become an art form…lol

    What do they say about “Mad dogs and Englishmen” and the midday sun?

    That’s why OZ cricketers plaster their lips and noses in zinc cream. There’s no doubt about it, we do suffer for living in a country with little or no smog, fog or pollution. Even here in Tasmania you can suffer severe sunburn just by virtue of the clarity of the atmosphere.

    If you can get your kids into a sunhat or into sunblock cream by telling them about ozone holes, trust me, you do it. But then, we told ’em about the tooth fairy and Santa Claus too…lol.

  128. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Yeah, I’m a photo-shop genius. Did you see the “amanda” pic in my new batch?

  129. memoryvault says:


    “There are actually three methods apart from more recent satellite data that have been used to detect just how much CFCs are present at various altitudes in the atmosphere;”

    Thank you at least for confirming that ozone occurs at ALL levels in the atmosphere, not in some magical, mystical layer. It’s probably the first and only useful thing you’ve ever done anywhere as a poster.

    “By the way, if you think my post to bjedwards was solely for his edification I think the term ‘idiot’ certainly applies to one of us.”

    idiot, if you really think anybody here (including blow-job, I suspect) actually bothered reading that post, you really ARE an idiot.

  130. Blackswan as an expat Brit living at roughly the same latitude you do me it’s 35 degrees north, I tried to be a tough to do the the mad dog thing Englishman thing and collapsing in the mid day sun tends to modify your behavior some what.
    Heck I’m so pale skinned I got sunburn at 56 degrees north hardly the Med.

  131. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Hey Crown,

    If I could photo-shop, I’d take my bloody garden shed out of the foreground on my pics..LOL

  132. izen says:

    @- memoryvault –
    The narrative you present for the ‘myth’ of the ozone hole and the culpability of CFCs is that it is all the fraudulent campaign of one powerful institution directed by one man.
    Edgar Bronfman of Du-Pont.
    Its a classic ‘conspiracy theory’ where incredible powers and abilities are ascribed to individuals or groups. Covert plans to manipulate the unsuspecting masses succeed with no opposition or opposing forces and the law of unintended consequences never intrudes….

    Look at the actual history and problems intrude.
    The detection of CFCs was made possible by James Lovelock’s development of the electron capture detector in 1971 and his own efforts to raise funding for a survay in remote locations that established that CFCs had spread globally – including to the Antarctic.
    The Messrs Rowland and Molina of the University of California, in 1974 and the similar work by Richard Stolarski and Ralph Cicerone establsihed the likely spread of CFCs and from the known chemsitry its likely effect on ozone levels.
    Other scientific research into this continued throughout the 1970s and the concerns about the chemical persistance and effects of CFCs grew.

    Edgar Bronfman did not have ANY influence on Du Pont until early in 1980 The Du pont takeover of Conoco involved Bronfman because he was also invovled in trying to acquire the company.

    By the time Bronfman was a power in Du Pont the campaign to control CFCs was already in existence. An alternative history of Bronfman and the Du Pont involvement might portray them as resisting the science by sponsored papers and disseminating doubt (exxon-Micheals?) to delay any governmental controls on CFCs until they had a profitable alternative.

    I have little expectation that any facts that contradict the conspiracy theory will convince you. But the simple narrative of one powerful company/man dominating the gradual development of the technology tp detect the chemicals and the science that slowly understood their role in atmospheric chemistry is not really credible if you have a view of history that acknowledges the multi-factorial and often contradictory forces that shape events.

    And others might benefit from knowing that however seductive your version of events may be, it promise of a simple explanation and reassuring conclusion is not backed up the facts.

  133. Blackswan Amanda is going to hurt you so badly ouch. Funny but your a dead man.

  134. izen says:

    @- memoryvault –
    “idiot, if you really think anybody here (including blow-job, I suspect) actually bothered reading that post, you really ARE an idiot.”

    I certainly don’t think that everyone here will have read it, but it is a rational assumption that the poster that commented on its presence, content and intent did.

    Or did you manage to make that post without reading it at all….?

  135. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Could you drive past that sign without stopping for a picture? Poor old Ned was entirely incidental, accidental.

    Between Mr A smacking me in the chops and Ch*mmy biting my ankles, I’m in deep doo doo…LOL

  136. orkneylad says:

    Ed – I’m liking her already……
    Orkneygal [from the Guardian]
    22 Jun 2010, 7:49AM

    “When Galileo Galilee was tried, his views were in the minority.
    But the “scientists” of his time were dependent upon money from the church.
    So, Galileo was condemned as blasphemous.
    In science, being in the minority does not make you wrong.
    And being dependent upon a benefactor for funding does not make you impartial.”

  137. Edward. says:


    Must be something in the Orcadian water, makes you real, enables you to sniff out BS!


  138. Blackswan Tasmania says:


    That’s a great quote from what sounds like our kinda gal.

  139. manonthemoor says:

    Good morning – Today’s Thoughts


    Electricity is everywhere but how many realise just how important.

    Electricity is the lifeblood of our modern world coursing down copper wires to every corner of our existence, until it STOPS.

    Electricity provides us with instant energy to power our homes, our shops, our offices and our factories, until it STOPS.

    Examples here (as usual)

    In the Home:-
    Fridge, Freezer, Cooker, Microwave, Kettle , Percolator, Mixer, Washing machine, Iron, Central Heating, Fan, Fan Heater, Electric Shower, A multitude of lights, TV, Video, Game console, Cordless Telephone, Gardening toys, Sound system and finally PC and monitor.
    But of course not forgetting all those plug in chargers for all or home ‘toys’

    In the Shops
    Lights, Freezer Display cabinets, Point of Sale tills, Labelling machines, Bar code readers plus Stock control, Wages and Sales based computers.

    In the Office
    More pc’s/monitors often networked, Lights, Heating ventilating systems, Lifts, Fax machines, Copy machines, Printers, Coffee machines, Access Door locks

    In the Factory
    Machines of all types, Kilns, Furnaces, Mechanical Handling, Cranes, Robots, Numerical Control, Just in Time Control. This list is too long because electricity is the workhorse of the modern factory.

    In the Street
    Lighting, Cash dispensers, Traffic lights, Speed Cameras, Surveillance Cameras, Tram systems and more.

    Additional critical uses
    Water, Sewage, Farming, Medical and Hospital services and so on.

    Sometimes I wish I could arrange power cuts, for all our politicians, for all our renewable energy fanatics and for the whole UN and IPCC fanatics, because stupid selfish and blind fanatics they are , in the face of reason.
    Just to demonstrate what an 80% reduction in available electricity would mean to the country — THEY JUST HAVE NO IDEA – NO TECHNICAL ABILITY

    Question time now

    Q1 Who wants smart meters?
    Q2 Is there a fiendish plot sell new white goods with smart meter controls?
    Q3 Reduced power usage who pays the infrastructure and profits?
    Q4 Will the power cuts and failures be in 2015 or 2014?
    Q5 Have Hospitals etc retained their generators?
    Q6 Is the government plan B to park a Warship generator adjacent to the Houses of Parliament with a line to HRH?

    Just what are these alternative energy freaks on?
    Have they any understanding of the chaos they will cause?
    The law of electrical power, —- Not enough in = Never enough out!!!


    So I can relax and go back to sleep

    Man on the Moor

  140. Pointman says:

    Blackswan Tasmania July 31, 2010 at 6:16 pm

    Skin cancers were a rarity in the British Isles until after WW 2. All the soldiers who’d served in sunny climes; N. Africa,Burma etc etc started developing them when they came home. The incidence also shot up after the easy availability of holidays in Spain in the 60s as well. Basically, us lot up here are evolved not to need protection from strong exposure to the Sun’s rays because we don’t get any …

    The corollary is bad news for Racists down under. The ghost of Darwin says your descendants’ skins are going to get darker and darker …


  141. suffolkboy says:

    @BJ passim
    @OL July 31, 2010 at 7:28 am
    Re: ice cores, 800 years.

    Just a quick point, not an exposition.

    The 800y/BBC/MetOffice years. My understanding and fallible memory at the moment is:

    (A) the Antarctic ice core data showed rather nicely and visually a correlation between CO2 proxies and temperature proxies over the last million[?] years, both graphs having similar ups and downs
    (B) the graphs show the wiggles in the CO2 *lagging* behind the wiggles in the temperature by about a thousand years; even if we assume a direct causal link, it cannot realistically be in the manner of “CO2 causes temperature”, at least not without some creative modelling;
    (C) this data was passed to the BBC and the Met Office (not necessarily in any particular order).
    (D) around November[?] 2009 the BBC put out at least a website (possibly a programme or insert in a programme) in which this correlation (but not the thousand years) was shown clearly, but on a scale of a million years. On this scale, the two graphs appear to be on top of each other; you cannot even see the thousand years difference, let alone which way it goes.
    AFAIR, the BBC’s line was to assume that “correlation implies causality” and let the viewers to believe a definite direction of causality, namely that CO2 causes temperature rises.

    However, the website very links to what appears to be the actual data (as an Excel spreadsheet, conveniently) so you can “zoom” in on the wiggles. As you do, so you can see the gap appearing: it is definitely CO2 lagging temperature by conceivably 800y, although to get a more accurate figure you would require proper numerical analysis rather than eyeballing, especially as 800y is around the resolution of the ice-core set-up.

    (E) After various complaints, the BBC said that they got the graphics from the Met Office rather than inhouse: at this point the paper trail becomes confused. In particular, it is not clear wheter the graphics design sub-contractor accidentally or deliberately transposed the graphs, or if they were transposed at all. Any further investigation at the BBC was obfuscated or completely Blacked out and at the Met Office everybody blamed Julia somebody and the matter became obscure. But the link to the BAS spreadsheet remained.

    (F) By this stage, the whole issue of CO2 proxies (but not temperature proxies) had long been under scrutiny; the issue was that the hitherto unknown or poorly understood phenomenon of clathrate creation (pretty arrangements of CO2 and H2O under high pressure) was re-visited; the problem was that clathrate production screwed up the figures because when you pull the ice-core out, the clathrates release the CO2 suddenly, before you get time to measure it, so you tend to under-estimate the CO2 concentrations in past millennia; I don’t know the outcome and ceased to follow the whole 800y/BBC/MetOffice/clathrate sideshow, let alone the bigger picture of whether or not the BBC and MetOffice are in cahoots or under government pressure to promulgate AGW material.

    My working hypothesis and imagery, flawed or otherwise, from all this is that when the sea warms up a bit, more CO2 escapes, and when the sea cools down, the CO2 re-dissolves, possibly like a big bottle of fizzy drink. If I had to teach this sort of stuff in school next year, I would use something like this image. Would I be grossly misleading the kiddies?

    PS: @CA July 31, 2010 at 5:54 pm
    Yes I agree, politics is the way to fix this and it does reek of hookum. I came late to this party: about a month before Copenhagen. What I keep finding is left-over bits of scientific pie-crusts and wine-spills and people vomitting over the floor and blood on the walls. My background is science, but now begin to enjoy reading the politics and money issues, as they are under-represented in the scientific papers. I’m just getting used to the cyberbloodbath rather than the international conference halls.

  142. orkneylad says:

    Suffolkboy – I think you’d be doing the kids a great service……my ma [geophysicist] would be proud of ya!

  143. Pointman says:

    suffolkboy July 31, 2010 at 8:03 pm

    The ‘science’ is beyond redemption. Just as no amount of tinkering would increase the credibility of Lysenkoism or Eugenics, ‘climate science’ is thoroughly flawed. It’s toast.

    Engineering a shift in public opinion to move the politicians is the only way forward.


  144. suffolkboy says:

    @Blackswan Tasmania July 31, 2010 at 6:16 pm[…] tooth fairies and ozone holes[…].

    Point taken! Education is a process of decreasing deception. Eventually we discover that tooth fairies, storks and gooseberry bushes and Santa Claus (and the other cultural equivalents), lightning folklore and hairy palms don’t exist except as a possible way of keeping the kiddies out of the bear-infested woods and arguably maternity clinics and off the motorways. The Ozone ogre that will do nasties to your skin sounds a good a way as any of keeping Antipodean kiddies hats on sounds like a good idea. But it’s when the teachers actually believe in the tooth fairies that it starts getting embarrassing.

  145. Edward. says:

    Reading from the script.

    All from an article on (what I call global warming TV) or the beeb:

    We’ve heard about Moanbot’s ‘ring’ well it seems journo’s have the same type of ‘piece’ of global propaganda.
    This is the battle, the MSM have given up/are part of the damn problem and at it’s heart is the most biased pro AGW eco tards, replete with trendy socialist mouthpieces…err objective reporters…….the virus pathogen, spreading slime, aka the BBC.

    Sorry world AGW and all it entails, it is mostly our fault, how did it come to this, from proud world leaders with a profound sense of duty and fealty with honour to a twisted vipers nest of navel gazing, self loathing (of British culture and tradition), socialist scumbags, who whilst I sit here writing are continuing to pull my country apart.

    Where once we exported goods to the world, now we export alarmism, misguided eco loons and idiot politicians aka ‘call me Dave’ (boy man playing politics), we have allowed the EU politburo to dominate, usurp our lives using the socialist concepts of; PC and Islamo-fascist loving multiculturalist perfidy to change our society, to which the BBC is a willing and pro-active participant, the organ of a socialist, anti British propaganda machine.
    AGW is only part of the problem, the illness is protracted and I fear terminal because if one looks to our political class, all our so deep in the malaise – their rheumy eyes have become blind to the reality, or is it?………………. that old axiom which reflects our elite; “I’m alright jack!” and the devil take the hindmost of you.

    Cynic or realist?

  146. Blackswan Tasmania says:


    “But it’s when the teachers actually believe in the tooth fairies that it starts getting embarrassing.”

    In Australia the teachers think they ARE the tooth fairies.

    You would be amazed at how many ex-schoolteachers are politicians in Oz. We’ve had state and federal MPs, state Premiers and even our current Ambassador to Italy is an ex-teacher, mostly all women.

    Our current Green Senator Christine Milne was a little mousy country teacher who campaigned against a pulp mill in her bailiwick who went on to be a state politician, and when I had dealings with her 20 years ago on education issues, she proved to be less than useless.

    Now she’s a federal senator, the national MSM bailing her up for doorstop interviews outside the Parliament building, everyone hanging on every word as she demands ALL coal-fired power stations close, ALL coal mining be stopped, ALL uranium mining be stopped. And so it goes. She’s a guest on all the ABC TV panel shows and everyone knows who she is.

    Not bad for a portly little middle-aged mousy woman from a little backwoods town nobody heard of.

    She IS the tooth fairy. Just pop your carbon taxes under that glass of water by your bed, and you’ll wake up in a brave new world free of that nasty Co2 “pollution”.
    You’ll have a gap-toothed smile, and you won’t be able to afford to see a dentist, but hey! you won’t be sizzling to death as the planet overheats.

    Stupid cow!

    Ermmm… I was a high school science and mathematics teacher once!!! – Oz

  147. manonthemoor says:

    July 31, 2010 at 8:28 pm

    Hi Ed
    I cannot in any way challenge your view of the propaganda machine that infests the BBC, the MSM, our schools (thanks suffolkboy) and our universities all driven by politics and money.

    Our actions here are a demonstration that all is not lost, a counter to this AGW nonsense, for which so far the politicians and money have no answer.

    The internet at present allows our views to be expressed and the power of this site demonstrates an alternative view, unsuppressed by the system, whilst unleashing such a talent of discussion together with unexpected literary and graphical skills.

    The MSM is Toast and like AGW the models are flawed.

    The interactive worldwide access to the internet is a game changer for the human race a successor to the industrial revolution and the technology revolution.

    Where will this lead us? Will the internet be allowed to survive as now?

    I have NoIdea

    ps almost F1 time lol

  148. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Shucks Oz,
    (sh**pish grin),

    I didn’t know that, but if it was in Tasmania, I KNOW you’ve met your share of tooth fairies.

    They seem to run them out on a template, and can’t cope with anyone who has an IQ larger than their Shoe size.

  149. scud1 says:

    July 31, 2010 at 8:28 pm

    Excellent post Ed.

  150. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Edward. says:
    July 31, 2010 at 8:28 pm

    You’ve popped it all into a nutshell Ed. Well said.

  151. Locusts says:

    My history teacher was a closet communist, he made us spend an entire term studying the glorious struggles of the Jarrow march and the General Strike.

  152. manonthemoor says:

    Is HRH looking for middle ground

    How does this stack up with consumerism?

    Anticipate some interesting comments

    Time to watch or comment!

  153. Pointman says:

    Things are a bit slow here today. Where’s the Gimp? Come out, come out wherever you are …


  154. manonthemoor says:

    July 31, 2010 at 11:01 pm

    In the Q for HRH garden party?

  155. suffolkboy says:

    Pointman July 31, 2010 at 11:01 pm

    I think the Gimp has been set some hard homework.

    Also a rather strait-laced female Chinese acquaintance of mine blushed and dodged the issue of translating 吹笛 into vernacular English for my benefit.

  156. suffolkboy says:

    Speak of the devil: she was over at Booker cutting and pasting URLs as I typed the last post.

    HRH is getting some stick at , but so far it’s all ad hom about in-breeding, and stuff on over-population.

    I wonder what sort of deal Asda did with HRH to get this initiative under way? Perhaps they are now allowed to put the Prince of Wales crest on their own-brand sustainable tofu?

  157. Locusts says:


    Hahahhah! I feel for her, you bastard!

  158. Amerloque says:

    Hi memoryvault !
    on July 31, 2010 at 1:34 pm

    /// Yes, there are very specific parallels between the “ozone hole” myth, and AGW.///

    ///When DuPont Chemicals invented chloroflourocarbons (CFC’s), the company was still very much controlled by the DuPont Family. They realised the implications of cheap refrigeration for the world and allowed CFC’s to be produced under licence by other companies at a peppercorn fee.///

    Certainly the Bronfman family is quite influential and its holdings are manifold and mysterious. (grin)

    The family has been popping up over the years in a variety of contexts. It is a matter of historical record that the Du Pont de Nemours company was one of the early supporters of Adolf Hitler and his National Socialist Party (Nazi), along with General Motors. The latter, through its subsidiary Opel, was an enthusiastic producer of trucks, armored cars, and tanks in Nazi Germany during the 1930s. The Ford Motor Company was involved with the Nazis in a similar fashion.

    /// Even after the United States entered the war, the priority at both mother companies was to preserve their highly productive and profitable German subsidiaries. The same Americans who had run Opel during the war advised the targeted bombing of the Opel factory, for which General Motors was amply compensated by U.S. taxpayers. Although Cologne was flattened, Ford Werke was never hit. German-made Ford and GM vehicles met American-made Ford and GM vehicles in battle, and the companies earned handsomely on both sides. ///
    (From “Working for the Enemy – Ford, General Motors and Forced Labor in Germany During the Second World War”
    by Reinhold Billstein, Karola Fings, Anita Kugler and Nicholas Levis, at )

    The Bronfman family business was, basically, booze, a company called Seagram, which was purchased during the late 1920s by Samuel B., the patriarch at the time.

    Great time to buy, eh ? How did the Bronfmans make such a pile of money in the 20s/30s ? Easy !

    /// In 1903, the family bought a hotel business, and Samuel, noting that much of the profit was in alcoholic beverages, set up shop as a distributor, founding the Distillers Corporation in Montreal in 1924, specializing in cheap whiskey, and concurrently taking advantage of the U.S. prohibition on alcoholic beverages. The Bronfmans found great success bootlegging to the northern cities of the U.S. such as Boston and Chicago during the Prohibition era, while operating from the perimeters of Montreal, Quebec where alcohol production was still legal.[citation needed] ///
    (at Wiki )

    Fast forward. Samuel B’s son, a fellow named Edgar Bronfman, Sr – the now-retired family patriarch – was a substantial donor to Zionist/Jewish causes. At the time of his election as head of the World Jewish Congress in 1980 or so, it was said that “without Edgar’s father, Samuel, the State of Israel would never have been founded.” It was previously rumored that he (Sam) gave quite a bit to the terrorist Stern Gang (but as of today, that remains only a rumor, as far as Amerloque is aware). Another rumor – in the financial world this time – was that he –publicly- became a big DuPont shareholder (at about the same time as the beginning of his WJC tenure, hey hey !) in order to keep an eye on what was going on, since by that time he had become internationally famous and could exert enormous pressure within the firm to dig around in the company archives for dirt about the period 1933-1945. Until his large shareholding, his nominees had apparently been blocked in their intercompany search for, er, compromising material. (grin)

    /// Together with his deputy Israel Singer, Bronfman has led the World Jewish Congress in becoming the pre-eminent international Jewish organization. Through the campaigns to free Soviet Jewry, the exposure of the Nazi past of Austrian president Kurt Waldheim, and the campaign to compensate victims of the Holocaust and their heirs, notably in the case of the Swiss banks, Bronfman became well-known internationally during the 1980s and 1990s.///

    Fast forward, again In recent years the son of Senior, Edgar Bronfman, Jr., was heavily involved with selling off the family jewel – Seagram – and subsequently purchasing/founding a firm called Vivendi Universal. He was also the one who sold off the Bronfman interest in DuPont de Nemours:

    /// The first step in this diversification was the widely criticized sale of Seagram’s stake in DuPont. In 1981, Edgar Bronfman, Sr., had sold Seagram’s stake in Conoco to DuPont, in exchange for almost 25% of the chemical giant. This stake in DuPont, by 1995, represented about 70% of Seagram’s total earnings.
    Nevertheless, Bronfman, Jr., acting as Seagram’s CEO, approached DuPont about buying back its shares, a deal that DuPont wasted no time in closing. ///

    Junior thinks he is an artist, which explains his interest in and involvement with Universal, and, today, Warner Music. In the financial world – which some people really –do- live in and function in, n’est-ce pas ? (grin) – he is considered to be a kind of whacko off-the-wall unreconstructed “hippie” with very little financial nous, which his track record amply proves.

    So, you might ask, “why is Amerloque so apparently interested in the Bronfmans ?” “Is it because he a closet antisemite, or hates Israel, or something on that order ?”

    Naw. (grin)

    Over here in France, the biggest financial story in the last decade of the 20th century was the rise and fall of the Golden Boy Jean-Marie Messier.

    This fellow was a technocrat from the very, very best schools who began his career in government and rapidly switched to the cut and thrust of finance. A banker, he then moved to multinationals and diversified into the media sector. He was responsible for the 2000 merger with Canal+ (biggest French pay-TV purveyor) and Seagram (owners of Universal Studios) to form Vivendi Universal.

    To cut a very long and highly detailed story short, Messier pulled an flamboyant Icarus and was dethroned in disgrace after he dropped a pile of money (>10 billion USD) in 2002 or 2003. There are still, today, numerous lawsuits involving the man, who is now an independent consultant in NY City. Since the inception of the “affaire Messier”, the French press has treated it as top priority. Hardly a day went by between 2000 and 2004 that Messier was off the font page or out of the TV news. The headlines and backgrounders were unrelenting, not to say overwhelming. Nowadays, whenever a lawsuit re Vivendi is heard in the French courts, the press reports faithfully.
    (Wiki French: Jean-Marie Messier
    Wiki English: Jean-Marie Messier

    Members of the Bronfman family did not appreciate Edgar’s sale of the family milk cow, to say the least, and apparently took a position in Vivendi when the shares were “down”, after Messier. Under the aegis of another CEO (from Messier’s old school), the shares are now “up” (a euphemism).

    Your recitation of the Bronfman/CFC connection is unsurprising to Amerloque, given the family’s past activities. Wiki has an entry entitled “Bronfman family” which takes the reader to many members. One has only to connect a few dots.

    The saga of the Bronfmans is hardly a “conspiracy theory” or some kind of psychotic invention by people wearing tinfoil helmets. (grin) It is real. It is verifiable. Undoubtedly a practised forensic economist (Hi Capn’ !) could really go to town on this, with detailed chapter and verse. (grin)

    Arrogant, patronizing “thinkers” who ridicule those who –do- understand the world and the shadowy interfaces among business, commerce and politics should realize that their objections are, to put it bluntly, unfounded and, worse, puerile. They should probably get out of the house/classroom a bit more and measure themselves against the real world, instead of subscribing to the teletubby touchy-feely “oh, another conspiracy theory nutter” groupthink. Cutting and vaingloriously pasting from the psychobabble playbook is no substitute for gaining experience from real life.

    Conspiracy, anyone ? Here’s a great “conspiracy theory”. (grin) Hidden for years. Only now being told in some detail. (wider grin)

    Nazi Gold: The Untold Story

    Thanks again for the info on CFCs.

    Amerloque 20200731 15h00 Paris time (CET)

  159. Amerloque says:

    Hi Pointman !

    Ameloque posted a long comment re: Bronfman a half-hour or so ago … forgetting that after five URLs such comments are held for moderation. (sigh)


    Amerloque 20100731 16h10 Paris time (CET)

  160. Pointman says:

    MOTM – The last time HRH invited me, I didn’t get on with the other garden party guests. I was a bit to direct. I thought I was just livening things up.

    Never been invited back. Stuck up bastards …


  161. bjedwards says:

    Izen wrote:

    “If you are here to try and overcome the gatekeeper of concepts of the other posters here you may want to reconsider your strategy.”

    If that were the point, then you would be correct, but my point is different. There is no possibility to convert denialists by reason, evidence, science or anything that is rational. It has never worked and the evidence of decades of attempts to do so with Holocaust Deniers, Creationists, round-earth deniers, and the whole lot demonstrates that repeatedly.

    Science is never settled but science is established in peer-reviewed journals over time. Climate science denialists [i]cannot[/i] address fundamental facts of the science, it’s evidence, and its direction. As you see here, they cannot possibly assent to the reality that the peer-reviewed research in climate science demonstrates the scientific reality of AGW. To do so would be to admit what we all know – their claims are nothing more than a political house of cards built on quicksand.

    Even a simple, easy-to-understand presentation like this will have them launch into pure denialism:

    “Is Global Warming True.”

    There is no point in attempting rational discussion with denialists. I let them show the world for what they really are.

  162. manonthemoor says:

    August 1, 2010 at 12:29 am

    Is pier review achieved laying on the sand waiting for the tide to come in then.

    Or perhaps the increase in sea level?

  163. Pointman says:

    The Gimp returns with another broken link, I presume. You guys in the Bar are feeding him too much. Pretty soon he won’t be able to get into his leathers.


  164. NoIdea says:

    BJ you freak, give me back the 9 minutes 42 of my life that I lost watching that execrable propaganda.
    The narrators repulsive slithering lying lips and the disgusting smacking sounds abounding between every sentence, sounds as if he is attempting to articulate the punctuation!
    (slurp slurp) A friend of yours?

  165. manonthemoor says:

    Pier Review

    Over to you fenbeagle

  166. manonthemoor says:

    Just thinking lot of piers around the Uk are scrapped, dilapidated, catching fire, now no more than a tourist attraction of past times. An irrelevance in our modern plans.

    Does that remind me of other peers?

  167. Amerloque says:

    Hi motm !

    er … “Gynt” ? (green)


  168. NoIdea says:

    B “Jimmy Jones” Edwards

    Killing in the name of! (Eugenics, sustainability, precautionary principle, population control)

    Some of those that work forces (UN, EPA, FEMA, WHO, EURO, CFR)

    Are the same who burn crosses (KKK, NAZIS, SS, CREAM)

    And now you do what they told ya (Listen to the lies, copy paste, repeat)


  169. Amerloque says:

    Hi NoIdea !
    on August 1, 2010 at 1:36 am

    /// Killing in the name of! (Eugenics, sustainability, precautionary principle, population control) ///

    (grin) What’s always good for a laugh is to say to a greeny “You’re no better than George Bush ! By invading Iraq, he was only applying (your) precautionary principle to geopolitics.” Usually, they simply mutter about “right wingers”.

    The fact that the PP used to be called “pre-emptive strike” bothers them no end.

    One can then move on to “warmist eco-fanatics are this season’s version of MAD”.

    (wide grin)


  170. fenbeagle says:

    manonthemoor says:
    August 1, 2010 at 1:08 am
    Just thinking lot of piers around the Uk are scrapped, dilapidated, catching fire, now no more than a tourist attraction of past times. An irrelevance in our modern plans.

    …If your talking about Morgan, I agree, but I quit like Corbyn myself. I’m still trying to figure out how he does it? You don’t think he just says the opposite to everything the Met says, do you?

  171. Edward. says:

    Pointman says:
    August 1, 2010 at 12:23 am

    Should have done a Freddie and ‘watered’ the flower beds.
    – err I know it was at No10 but same diff’.


  172. bjedwards says:

    I love how you sickies illustrate my points for me. You demonstrate just how mentally deranged climate science deniers are.

    Just like your whiny 9/11 “Truther” brothers:

  173. Pointman says:

    The Gimp seems to be stuck on ‘truthers’, whatever they are, and creationism. I think the fat is accumulating between his ears. We’ve really got to start slimming him down. Who volunteers to take him walkies?


  174. Pointman says:

    No volunteers? Shit. All you have to do is tie his leash to your back bumper and drive around the Bar & Grill a few times. For God’s sake. I’m not asking the Earth.


  175. Pointman says:

    Here. I’ll even provide the music to drive with


  176. Edward. says:

    “What we’ve got here is failure to communicate.
    Some men you just can’t reach…”

    “So, you get what we had here last week,
    which is the way he wants it!
    Well, he gets it!
    N’ I don’t like it any more than you men.”


  177. Pointman says:


    First the mission then the men.


  178. manonthemoor says:

    Post by TUB on JD just now


    Despite Controversies, Climate Remains an Issue

    Admittedly, it’s been a rough stretch for the cap-and-trade crowd.

    The revelation last October that many of the scientists involved in climate-change research had tweaked the data to improve their case was not surprising. The climate-change industry has over the last two decades been rewarded with huge government grants and massive media sympathy. And since some scientists, like anybody else, can be fallible human beings, it wasn’t a surprise that some had papered over flaws in their arguments. Needless to say, it was therefore a relief when the Copenhagen Conference on Climate Change last December failed to produce a meaningful agreement based on that data.

    Nevertheless, the fact that many scientists involved in climate change fudged their statistics, and that the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change’s Fourth Report in 2007 contained unfounded claims, such as the likely disappearance of the Himalayan glaciers in 2035, does not mean that climate change is entirely a myth.

    There is a certain amount of well-attested evidence for climate change, and the suggested mechanism by which excess carbon dioxide might produce global warming is a plausible one. Further work needs to be – and should be – done.

    Nevertheless, one can discount the more apocalyptic predictions about future climate and say that, while there may well be some warming in global climate, it is very unlikely to exceed 2 degrees Celsius by 2100. That would imply a rise in ocean levels of no more than a foot or two and only moderate agricultural disruption.

    That has important policy implications. And here’s why. Schemes whereby the environmentalists get to rearrange the world economy to suit their own preferences – leading to trillions of dollars a year in lost or wasted output – can be rejected immediately.

    The modest improvement in carbon emissions from some of the more-ambitious and complex carbon-capture-and-storage schemes completely fails to balance their enormous cost.

    On close inspection, that’s what’s wrong with “cap and trade,” under which the government would announce a yearly cap on carbon emissions and then issue permits to power companies and others producing emissions. The government is not capable of assessing the cost and benefit of different possible levels for the emissions cap. Thus, its ability to issue permits merely produces a huge rent-seeking industry by which it can give favors to campaign contributors.

    Last year’s House of Representatives “cap-and-trade” bill was an appalling example of this. It gave out so many favors to those with political “pull” that it ended by producing only an infinitesimal reduction in carbon emissions, and at an enormous cost.

    The “cap-and-trade” concept, invented by BP PLC (NYSE ADR: BP) and Enron Corp. in the 1990s as a way to profit through setting up emissions permit trading operations (and through politically favored but uneconomic “biofuels” operations) may not be entirely dead, even in the United States. Sen. Reid could revive it during the “lame duck” session of Congress after the upcoming mid-term elections, when many legislators will have nothing to lose. However, the balance of probability must be against it, unless the Democrats do unexpectedly well in November………………………….

    The Likely Path of Climate Reform

    No matter which party does better in November, Congress will next year wish to start trimming the deficit, and tax increases are likely to be part of that push. A tax increase that does not fall directly on most consumers – and that can be sold as a “green” initiative – will be very attractive.

    Even at a low rate of $15 per metric ton of carbon, such a tax would yield around $100 billion per year, while William D. Nordhaus’ “optimal” carbon tax of $60 per metric ton would yield close to $400 billion per annum. If imposed without exemptions – and without offsetting wasteful expenditures on boondoggles – a carbon tax could go a long way to reducing the U.S. budget deficit.

  179. bjedwards says:

    Education for you science deniers:

    “The Discovery of Global Warming”
    July 2009

    “A hypertext history of how scientists came to (partly) understand what people are doing to cause climate change. ”

  180. NoIdea says:


    I think rather than clearly contradicting my second statement you will find it is actually complimentary and part of the same reality.
    Kelly seems to agree…

    “To make matters worse, water vapor and clouds are far and away the most important greenhouse substances in the atmosphere, and clouds also affect climate not only by sending infrared radiation back to earth and warming it up but by reflecting sunlight back into space, thus cooling the planet.”

    Quote “Of course our atmosphere and ALL its components provides the insulation and heat transfer that keeps the surface that little bit warmer than it would be without them…
    And each component of the atmosphere has its effect according to its physical properties….”
    I agree with all that statement apart from the ‘blanket’ assumption you make that it keeps the entire surface warmer. It was you who explained to me that the equator would be much hotter than it actually is (I had guessed this all on my own!) without the atmospheric COOLING effect! –grin-

    Quote “Co2 does not ‘compete’ with dihydrogen monoxide, it has an effect commensurate with its relative abundance and absorptive properties.”

    A relative abundance of less than 0.04% and the absorptive properties that only allow it to ‘interface’ with a small bandwidth of a low flux energy, or ‘cold heat’…

    Thank you very much for recognizing the purple nature of my prose it is by far my favorite colour. I am somewhat impressed that you reached hebephrenic from my meager description; I was actually aiming for hebetude…

    When Midgley invented lead in petrol and CFCs Did he realise the furor his creations would cause?
    I remember when we had to “save the planet” from Ozone depletion. (Phew, we just did that!)
    Now we are at risk from Ozone as (just another) greenhouse gas (source Kerry Emanuel: Phaeton’s Reins)
    We also find that Ozone has a molar mass of 47.998 g•mol−1
    With a density of 2.144 g/L (0 °C), gas
    But Shirley, “The highest levels of ozone in the atmosphere are in the stratosphere, in a region also known as the ozone layer between about 10 km and 50 km above the surface (or between about 6 and 31 miles). Here it filters out photons with shorter wavelengths (less than 320 nm) of ultraviolet light, also called UV rays, (270 to 400 nm) from the Sun that would be harmful to most forms of life in large doses. These same wavelengths are also among those responsible for the production of vitamin D in humans. Ozone in the stratosphere is mostly produced from ultraviolet rays reacting with oxygen:”

    This point is crucial; the energy received from the sun is in all in DIFFERENT parts of the EM spectrum.
    Over to you Shirley Knut…This seems to me as though the Sun is affecting oxygen in clear violation of the invisible sky principles but in clear obeisance with the izen conjecture, and if it is the Sun that is getting absorbed by O2 “up there” then it seems that any surface emissions are diminished by the inverse square law to the point where the peak of the terrestrial surface emissions in the low IR (given it’s surface temp) are far far exceeded by the solar flux in the same wavelengths – by about a thousand times. (I admit it, a guess! I have Nnn…)

    I am very sorry, yes I do seem to have confused you with my tales of blankets, you have coats muddled in as well oh dear…I had explained that I accepted coats as being overly complicated and full of confounding factors (Sleeves, buttons, Etc.) for you.
    No, I possess no see through coats; some of the visors on my crash helmets seem to provide some protection against thermal radiation. Sun glasses block out a chosen range of EMF frequencies, without testing or research I can not tell you the thermal transfer or blocking rates.

    The sun beats down and heats the ground.

    (But misses all the air on its way down!)

    Its spectra matching SB’s law.

    (Boltzman’s not broken, if NASA you ignore!)

    The earth emits its heat around

    (And in and down, in oceans flow abound!)

    Matching SB without a flaw.

    (Except of course the really big ones that you ignore!)

    The air absorbs the surface glow

    (Dodging every sun beam, it seems, except rainbows!)

    the water leads but there’s CO2

    (A tinsy tiny smidgen yes its true!)

    Each warms the air by thermal flow

    (Everything warms everything net flow is the goal!)

    measurement shows that its all true.

    (And I still say that the sky is blue!)

    Strange rituals using coats and fire

    (Much safer than naked, or call me a liar!)

    Don’t make this wrong, you just perspire.

    (Unless it is winter, then they keep you cozy and alive it transpires!)

    Will you forgive me for butchering your “ode”?
    Does BJE have the mental capacity for doing anything creative?


  181. Pointman says:

    The Gimp has no mind. All he can do is paste stuff from a playbook. Come on BJ, be a man, not a number. Up and at us you plonker. Show me what you’ve got freak …


  182. bjedwards says:

    Here’s some education and realityfor the very sad Orkneyladdy who can’t stand any scientific data contrary to his political fairytales:

    “How do we know that recent CO2 increases are due to human activities?”

  183. bjedwards says:

    Poor Pointman, angry as ever that I’ve got the science that flummoxes you, and you can’t even explain why you won’t accept it. But, as wee see, none of you can explain your opposition to the overwhelming peer-reviewed science demonstrating that AGW is real.

    Stop whining, Pointman, and step up to the plate or get out of the kitchen.

  184. NoIdea says:


    Bjedwards wrote for all to see…(Well those that noticed)
    “Education for you science deniers:”

    Well that is no freaking use is it you melanocratic plagiarist?
    What is the use of trying to educate a science denier?
    I have never denied science you slow dull witted copy and paste buffoon.
    Do you believe everything you see on the internet?
    Do you think that television is real?
    Are you just another run of the mill hack attempting to build a “name” by being a wanker?
    Do you believe politicians when they promise things?
    By spamming boring links to bland biased websites do you really believe that you will ever educate anyone, let alone a science denier?
    When you “wee see” do you get wet?
    Or do you wear a transparent coat like the one izen fancies?


  185. bjedwards says:


    Why do you have no idea why you are against the overwhelming peer-reviewed science demonstrating that anthropogenic global warming is real? What possible scientific reason could you so object to climate science like a spoiled child?

    Speak up so we can hear you.

  186. NoIdea says:


    Please do try and keep up, is it that you cannot read long posts and that I will have to try and explain everything to you so can see it in small words only?
    Your last link is from 22 December 2004… Have you tried reading anything a little more current?
    To be honest “BJ” I do not care if your science is pee reviewed or wee reviewed, if it is bullshed and breaks the LAWS OF PHYSICS then it is useless.

    Do try looking up this page and you will see that I have spoken, you mind numbingly puerile paramecium, or are you that stupid and slow that you cannot understand any of the concepts I address?
    I suggest you clean out your primitive oral groove, settle down in your pool of stagnant wee and attempt to get up to date.

    Read up so you can “hear” me, can you do that?


  187. Locusts says:


    Good to see you are taking such an interest in us. Please could you explain to us how CO2 has a bigger effect on climate change than the sun?

  188. Locusts says:

    And another question. One of the primary dreams for the future is to establish a settlement on Mars. When 95% of its atmosphere is composed of Carbon Dioxide, what is the point?

  189. Locusts says:


    And another thing. We need to talk about solutions to this problem. Now the main problem with global warming is the effect of such a huge population industrializing and consuming goods at such a rapid rate. All of the different processes arising from this lead to the emission of many harmful gases. So we have a choice, do we:
    A) Kill some people, and rely on a mixture of fossil fuels and renewables.
    B) Kill more people and make everybody else rely on renewables.
    C) Kill almost everyone, so we can reset the Malthusian time bomb but with higher tech, and nice flights for everyone on Virgin Galatic.

    Do not laugh. People are already dying because of this farce. Just because you can afford to eat doesn’t mean others can. That you actively support this, and are laughing at us means that through complicity you are in part responsible for these peoples deaths. Don’t worry. So am I, but I woke up.

    And to quote some angry music:

    Little people in little houses
    Like maggots small blind and worthless
    The massacred innocent blood stains us all

    Who’s responsible – you fucking are
    Who’s responsible – you fucking are

    Choose BJ, who should die now in order to save the planet from the Carbon Dioxide we all breathe? Who should die BJ, just so you don’t have to challenge your preconceptions?

  190. orkneylad says:

    BJ – I can stand any scientific data you like, keep ’em coming fruitloop!……your pathetic attempts to join battle are water off a duck’s back.

    I happily accept [and have done so on many occasions, even stated on my blog on this subject] that the recent rise in CO2 may well be partly caused by human activity. Carbon 14 levels do appear to show that. Prior to atmospheric testing of nuclear weapons, decreases in the relative amount of carbon-14 showed that fossil fuel carbon was being added to the atmosphere. (Studies of tree rings have shown that the proportion of carbon-14 in the atmosphere dropped by about 2% between 1850 and 1954. After this time, atmospheric nuclear bomb tests distoyed this method by releasing large amounts of carbon-14.)However there appears to be no reason to panic as natural systems like the carbon sink have taken care of rising CO2 in the past. In the Devonian C02 was ten times what it is now and the earth didn’t suffer runaway heating.
    Former NASA physicist Ferenc Miskolczi’s new [2010] peer-reviewed paper places a well-deserved death knell on the crumbling greenhouse gas theory of man-made global warming, stating:

    “The data negate increase in CO2 in the atmosphere as a hypothetical cause for the apparently observed global warming. A hypothesis of significant positive feedback by water vapor effect on atmospheric infrared absorption is also negated by the observed measurements. Apparently major revision of the physics underlying the greenhouse effect is needed.”

    Miskolczi’s analysis of 61 years of data shows that there has been no change in the infrared “heat-trapping” ability of IR-active “greenhouse gases” over the period, in stark contrast to claims of the “greenhouse effect” that “heat-trapping” should increase in direct relation to the concentration of “greenhouse gases” in the atmosphere. Since the concentration of CO2 has steadily risen over the 61 year period, while the imaginary “heat-trapping” has not, the theory of anthropogenic global warming is empirically falsified.

    The Paper is here, from ‘Energy & Environment · Vol. 21, No. 4, 2010’:

    So, in the immortal words of BJ [Ben Jonson that is] “I fart at thee!”

  191. Dr. Dave says:

    I’m from the US and just stopped by this site to look around. This site is a blast! It’s sort of a cross between WUWT and Here all this time I figured most Aussies were a bunch of ozone holers and carbonophobes. Apparently I was wrong. I’ll have to check in more often.

  192. CriticalThinker says:

    “Our Climate” iPhone app makes it to No.1 paid-for weather app in just 40 Hrs!

    The TRUTH is out there!

    Game’s up AGW comrades, now get off our lawn you scum sucking shower of shite!

    Read it and weep…

  193. suffolkboy says:

    There is a poster called “geographer” on Lean at the moment in hand-to-hand combat with “coldfinger”. Geographer is prolific, but I cannot even begin to understand his version of the science. It is mostly the usual “arm-waving” explanations including the concept of “trapping IR radiation”. (Perhaps he is a sixth-former who chose geography at A-level because he failed maths and physics?) I don’t think he is being deliberately destructive of the blog, but he just doesn’t seem to have grasp of even the basics. I fear that if I blunder in or he comes here there is a risk of a waste of time.

  194. Locusts says:

    Dr. Dave

    Welcome, and please do!

  195. Pointman says:

    Ah ha!

    Just got back. The Gimp is in danger of growing a pair. Got to you, didn’t I?

    Well come on BJ. Prove global warming is real. Never mind the ad hom. Prove it.


  196. bjedwards says:

    NoIdea, living up to his name, made us all laugh by writing:

    “To be honest “BJ” I do not care if your science is pee reviewed or wee reviewed, if it is bullshed and breaks the LAWS OF PHYSICS then it is useless.”

    So NoIdea wants us to believe the the vast majority of peer-reviewed science papers and their authors break the laws of physics.

    Isn’t that just amazing, NoIdea? Who would have thunk?


  197. CriticalThinker says:

    Ah, the AGW comrade’s pal-review process – by their emails ye shall know them.

  198. bjedwards says:

    Orkneylad, in his best denialist mode wrote,

    “So, in the immortal words of BJ [Ben Jonson that is] “I fart at thee!””

    Farting is all that you science deniers have done since I came here to let you expose yourselves. And, boy, what a den of deniers I happened onto!

    Just like 9/11 “Truthers” before you, you don’t yet understand that picking papers from the tiny minority of those who have objections does not invalidate the overwhelming peer-reviewed climate science that demonstrates AGW is real.

    You can pretend all you want, but science does not work the way you are trying to make it work. It is both foolish and stupid to DENY the science, so please tell us WHY you insist on telling us the earth is flat?


  199. Pointman says:

    For all our viewers out there, I feel I must explain something at this point. It’s a bit academic but what the Hell, if you weren’t intelligent you wouldn’t be tracking this blog. It’s for grownups after all. Formal logic tells us that it’s not possible to disprove a negative. This is a rather dense statement which is best understood by a simple story.

    A man appears before you and tells you he has a halo over his head. You look. No halo is apparent and you tell him so. But it’s there he insists but only he can see it. You answer that you’ve looked and there is certainly no halo there.

    Well then he says, prove it isn’t there …

    Bring on your proof Gimp, because I’m not about to attempt to disprove a negative. The ball’s in your court BJ. Prove it.


  200. bjedwards says:

    Pointman, cornered, evaded the question in TRUE denialist fashion by writing:

    “Well come on BJ. Prove global warming is real. Never mind the ad hom. Prove it. “.

    Sorry, Pointman, your evasion does not work. As you well know, the burden of proof is on the shoulders of those who make claims against the overwhelming peer-reviewed science, whatever the subject may be.

    That be YOU, not me.

    You know this, of course, and you know that you are cornered by your bizarre stance that you have no ability to articulate or justify. You can’t hide from the truth or reality. Your sorry denialist game is up. Science long ago passed you by, all of you, leaving you in the dust whining incoherently. You’ve outed yourselves.

    So it should be of no surprise that you get the derision you have earned.

  201. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Good morning all,

    Catching up on what I missed overnight, and thought I’d choke, spluttering coffee all over the place…………….

    Quote from HRH?

    “There are, in fact, endless possibilities to consider – such as recycling bath water onto the garden in the summer, or turning old curtain material into what could perhaps become a series of fashionable bags – things I am doing myself.”

    “Things I”m doing myself”??
    Making old curtains into fashionable bags?
    Carting buckets of bathwater out to the garden?

    Sheesh!! That’s what you get paddling in the shallow end of the gene pool. Perhaps Mummy should lock him and his Eugenicist Da (he who wants to be reincarnated as a killer virus) away in the attic.

  202. bjedwards says:

    Too bad Pointman never took a course in logic, formal or informal.

    It’s the nature of the beast.

  203. Pointman says:

    Come on Gimp. Prove AGW is happening or slide back to the Guardian. You’ve got the floor and we’re all watching you right now. Prove it.


  204. Pointman says:

    BTW, no more peanuts from the bar. MV’s been putting things into them for your ‘benefit’ he assures me but I think there’s a connection to your weight problem.


  205. Pointman says:

    Oh dearie,

    “took a course in logic” – a slip. Got you now haven’t I?


  206. Pointman says:

    Where is that Ruari of yesteryear? He got off lightly I think. His predecessor certainly didn’t …


  207. suffolkboy says:

    bj and pm: Keep the noise down you two, I’m trying to get some sleep. Is it my turn to clear up the blood in the morning? Must keep the place spruced up in case HRH turns up unannounced.

  208. Locusts says:


    你快点好不好。 人家都要睡觉的!

  209. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    BJ, BJ, BJ……..

    You link to a site called 911 Booger (isn’t that something you blow out of your nose into a tissue and put in the trash?), and it’s last entry was two and a half years ago.

    You come from an era that has been taught WHAT to think. It is no accident. Your education authority-figures waved bits of paper around at you and if you duly ticked-the-boxes as indicated, you got a good mark and a pat on the head and became teacher’s pet. You’re always striving for approval. Comply and you’re good, challenge your authority figures and you will sit in the naughty-corner, by yourself.

    At Libertygibbert you will find people who were educated in HOW to think…. for themselves. As very young children we were given the basic tenets of maths and science and encouraged to always challenge, always question, always go find the answer.

    You have been taught that carbon dioxide is a pollutant. We KNOW that it is a building-block of the very life on this planet, that without it Life could not exist.

    You are so preoccupied with “peer-reviewed science”. You are so impressed by “group think”. This will come as a shock, but it is possible that really bad, lazy, compromised people with no integrity come in clusters. That does not make them right.

    Think for yourself. When you have been taught WHAT to think, don’t disrespect those who have learned HOW to think for themselves.

  210. orkneylad says:

    BJ says: you don’t yet understand that picking papers from the tiny minority of those who have objections does not invalidate the overwhelming peer-reviewed climate science that demonstrates AGW is real.

    There are many hundreds of peer-review papers that maintain a sceptical stance on this issue… you deny this? [oh I forgot, you don’t actually ‘engage’ in Q&A do you!]
    Lack of an answer on this point firmly places YOU in denial of the scientific reality…….you have blown your position apart already so I won’t hold my breath.
    From: Kevin Trenberth (US National Center for Atmospheric Research). To: Michael Mann. Oct 12, 2009
    “The fact is that we can’t account for the lack of warming at the moment and it is a travesty that we can’t”

    [Prof Trenberth appears to accept a key argument of global warming sceptics – that there is no evidence temperatures have increased over the past 10 years. ]
    From Phil Jones To: Michael Mann (Pennsylvania State University). July 8, 2004
    “I can’t see either of these papers being in the next IPCC report. Kevin and I will keep them out somehow — even if we have to redefine what the peer-review literature is!”

    [The IPCC is the UN body charged with monitoring climate change. The scientists did not want it to consider studies that challenge the view that global warming is genuine and man-made. ]
    From: Phil Jones. To: Many. Nov 16, 1999
    “I’ve just completed Mike’s Nature [the science journal] trick of adding in the real temps to each series for the last 20 years (ie, from 1981 onwards) and from 1961 for Keith’s to hide the decline.”

    [Critics cite this as evidence that data was manipulated to mask the fact that global temperatures are falling. Prof Jones claims the meaning of “trick” has been misinterpreted]

    You clearly display all the symptoms of a mental dissorder……I hope you’re recieving help in the new, shiny U.S health system…….some gems follow from your -seemingly- dormant blog [you been ‘inside a padded room’ since 2008?]

    BJ is so stupid, he thought Taco Bell was a Mexican phone company.

    BJ is so stupid, he went out the door and got lost! (Someone, show him the door)

    BJ is so stupid, that he tripped on a cordless phone

    As I recall, BJ is so stupid, he believes a 100 ton airliner can DE-MATERIALIZE or pop into other dimensions.

    BJ is so stupid, he believes that Arabs can sneak onto airliners and get killed and NOT show up on the OFFICIAL CORONER’S report.

    BJ is Sooooo stupid he believes that steel melts in kerosene fires –proof that BJ has never heated up a can of spam on a camp fire stove.

    BJ is so stupid he can do no better than label people. BJ is a ‘labeler’! That’s what people WHO CANNOT THINK do. They label. BJ is an idiot!

    Nighty night fruitloop.


  211. Pointman says:

    Swanny, what I’ve always found particulary offensive about the ‘CO2 is your enemy’ bollocks is – it’s basically racist. I’m a carbon based life form and it’s not fair for silicone based life forms like the Gimp to diss me. Where are his so called ‘liberal’ principles?


  212. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    I just think their unmitigated arrogance is astounding, and so repetitive.

  213. CriticalThinker says:

    Time for me to hit the sack.

    If that slimebiot thing comes back I suggest you confuse it with logic until its circuits burnout. Failing that just pop it on Oz’s Grill for a while.

  214. Pointman says:


    They’re a type. Find a link and post it here. That’s what passes for thinking with true believers. Ask a kid who’s got some personality and a brain and they can sit down and type something themselves and have the sand to defend it, right or wrong. That I respect, win, lose or draw.

    Cut and paste bandits may get the steam of my piss but only if I’m in a Christmassy mood and that don’t happen often.


    ps Has anyone taken the Gimp out for some exercise?

  215. NoIdea says:

    Bedwettards, In its most anal tone guffawed and brayed hysterically…
    “NoIdea, living up to his name, made us all laugh by writing:”

    So “BlobJob” have you taken up spouting the bleeding obvious full time now or is it still just a hobby?

    Despite your deciding what I do and do not deny (lets face it you have not actually read much have you?) I find myself in agreement with the vast majority of peer-reviewed science papers and their authors.
    It is only when it gets down to the nitty-gritty “facts” of the mythical morphing global warming theories that I find myself in disagreement.
    Because you are too lazy and stupid to go back and read the many thousands of up to date scientific research papers you cannot even state what the “current” AGW theory is, can you?
    If anyone asks a question that you cannot understand you screech “denier” and try and big yourself up.
    Ask yourself WHY you are asking about flat earths? and wonder, who looks like they are suffering from some rabid delusions of grandeur?
    Bjedwards asked any question ever, has never had an answer, in denial of his denial he has found it impossible to articulate or justify anything ever. How pathetic is that?
    Where is my derision I have earned?
    If these lame little burps are all you can manage I will feel thoroughly let down, for are you not the GOD of ridicule and wit?
    Or are you just a jumped up little thing with nothing to offer?
    Will your constant refusal to even attempt to state one thought of your own go un-noted?
    It does not look that way, your bravado aside you are full of guff, you have no substance, you are an empty vacuous louse.
    What witty devastating come back will you fire back this time?


  216. Pointman says:

    P’s dime in the Juke Box


  217. Amanda says:

    Blackswan: Saw your latest pics and your earlier comment about my angel being an ankle-biter. Actually you’d be lucky if she bothered with your ankles. Boxers like to leap:

    P. S. Of course this was a highly trained schutzhund. My little girl is a cream puff. However I’m certain she would defend me if need be!

  218. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Changing topic, but we need to talk about something very different………

    This is a national emergency and we need the advice of our northern hemisphere mates.

    I just discovered there are EIGHT squirrel breeding farms in Sydney and the buggers sell in pet shops for $1,200.oo !!

    That bloke in the UK who drowned one and was fined 1500 pounds, could have just shipped him out here and made a cool grand on the side.

    Squirrels are completely unknown here, so if they “get out there” like rabbits, rats, mice, pigeons, sparrows, pigs, horses, camels, buffalo, cane toads, European carp, foxes, cats and dogs and become completely FERAL…… what’s the upshot?

    What do they actually DO that makes them pesky?

  219. Amanda says:

    Forgot to add: don’t miss the still at the end of the clip. Boxers are magnificent dogs and can be quite acrobatic. Everyone that has a Boxer admires everyone else’s Boxer. It’s like a club and the only membership due is love.

  220. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Hi Amanda,

    Glad you liked the pics. Can’t say I liked the video link…. naaaasty. You’re right, my ankles are safe…lol

  221. Amanda says:

    Blackswan: Britain’s red squirrel is a fussier eater than the N. American grey squirrel (though in fact there are several different species, including a cute coastal one I saw in California, and a very large black one, seen in Hosuton). The red squirrels especially like acorns of certain pines, which explains why they are northern squirrels primarily. Anyway, as I understand it, in lean years, the reds retreat from their peripheral feeding areas to their ‘core’ areas. The greys, who are less particular and therefore more opportunistic, move into the formerly red-dominated areas. Once the greys move in, they own the territory and the reds can’t come back. Hence a smaller area for reds in which to find food and breed… hence a decline in numbers and a restriction of geographic range.

  222. Amanda says:

    Blackswan: Well, I think you misunderstand the context. This is a police dog, and he’s being trained (note the enormous guard sleeve the chap is wearing). Trust me, Boxers are NOT nasty dogs. They are, however, guard dogs (‘schutz’ in German means ‘protection’). If you were a cop or soldier on a dangerous mission, would you want this dog with you or a chihauhau? Exactly. I am hardly Mrs Rough-and-Tough but I am completely comfortable with my dog and with Boxers in general.

  223. Pointman says:

    Hiya Amanda,

    I’ve seen that sort of training go wrong and it wasn’t very pretty you know. The guy stuck out his padded forearm but the boxer, being a dog with his own personality, as all dogs have, decided to attack a weak spot instead. Amongst the gathered crowd of supposed admirers was a peasant type, that would be me, who knew the only way to unlock the boxer’s jaws from the pertinent piece of anatomy.

    Not one of my fondest memories …


  224. Amanda says:

    I stand by my comment. Boxers are wonderful dogs, bred specifically for good temperament as well as strength. They are somewhat strong-willed but by the time they get to this level of Schutzhund training, they are very obedient as well, having mastered all the more ordinary requirements of a well-behaved dog. That does not mean that nothing can ever go wrong. But given how long recognizable Boxers, in their hundreds of thousands around the world, have been working dogs in good standing and beloved pets in decent households, it would be unfair to tar the lot on account of one….

  225. Amanda says:

    And that by the way is the category that Boxers are routinely placed in: working dogs. My dog works hardest at being lovely to everyone she meets and winning hearts!

  226. Amanda says:

    Not to drone on, but I do think it valuable to add that a strong will — a personality, as Pointman says — is a sign of intelligence. All Boxer owners know how intelligent — bright and sparky and quick — they are. Yet many people think that the way to judge intelligence is by how quickly a dog learns to be a slave, i.e. to perform commands. I don’t think slavishness is a sign of intelligence: rather the contrary. An intelligent dog, like a cheeky child, will of course try to have its own way while remaining in your good graces. As a Boxer owner — or with any intelligent and wilful dog — the challenge and fun is to use those positive qualitiest to help the dog be a biddable pet and a pleasant companion. My dog is beautifully trained because I used her playfulness to make training fun, rather than trying to ‘break’ her. I respected her and lo and behold, she respects me. There is no other way to treat a dog that isn’t actually psychotic.

  227. Pointman says:

    Amanda, I’m beginning to suspect you’ve got a dog and (closes eyes in best David Blain) she’s a boxer … ?


  228. Amanda says:

    Pointman: LOL!

  229. memoryvault says:


    That’s amazing.

    How do you do that?

  230. Edward. says:


    I find squirrels quite a laugh but they are really a nuisance for foresters especially a certain type.

    Swanny what type of Squirrel? – if it is grey they are originally native to North America, in Britain our natural squirrel is the Red, a cute little fella but out done by his cousin from the States.
    They do not hibernate (like the reds) eat and scavenge more and do more damage to trees, they are more competitive than our native red and have overrun our island to the demise of the red squirrel.
    They eat bark and allowing diseases to kill trees particularly sycamore and beech.
    They are climbing rodents essentially and have few natural predators being good climbers, if given half a chance they will colonise Aus/Tassiestan no problem.

    Best keeping the buggers out, the are known to eat small birds (chicks) and maybe if allowed will rival then outdo the Koala, that would not be on.


  231. Pointman says:

    Dogs are great. Never mind Dolphins & Whales, dogs are great. They have days and you know how they feel. You have days and they …


  232. Pointman says:

    MV, Don’t you know? I must be epilectic. Is that the right word?


  233. Amanda says:

    Pointman: Exactly.

    About squirrels: I imagine they’re all the same in that they’ll chew through anything. Stout plastic tub with gripping lid for bird food? Forget it, the squirrel will chew a neat hole in it and get all the feed.

    I used to have a grey squirrel visit me when I lived in an apartment in Toronto. It would leap in through an open roof-top window, causing me to scream with automatic, atavistic horror, causing no one to knock on my door asking whether I were being murdered (interesting that — the screams were short-lived but loud enough to give me a headache!). The screams were effective, like a burglar alarm: one time the squirrel bounced on to the carpet and in the next bound was out the window again. Another time, while I was elsewhere, it helped itself to a pristine box of brandy chocolates I’d left lying on the floor. Moral of the story: never leave brandy chocolates on the floor.

  234. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Thanks for that Ed, Amanda……..

    This is what I mean –

    Doesn’t say where they come from.

  235. Pointman says:

    Right. Okay Amanda. Let’s cut to the quick on this one. I can’t stand waiting for ten posts while someone, usually moi, finally runs out of patience and asks the burning question that everyone is puzzling about.

    Why were the “brandy chocolates on the floor”. If this was a wet suits/lubricant thing forget about it.


  236. Pointman says:


    Sounds like you’re advocating us all getting into the Squirrel trade. Doesn’t matter what colour they are, they’re all God’s creatures. Shame on you, you antipodean Simon “squirrel” Legree.

    Pointman of Wallawoora

  237. Edward. says:

    Have a look on Chatbox.


  238. Amanda says:

    Hi Pointman. It was many years ago so I don’t really recall. Tiny place; maybe the sofa was occupied? Seems a goofy place to put a box of chocolates but obviously I was pressed for space. My brother gave them to me, I remember. Remarkable: usually all he gave me was a pain in the neck!

    Anyway I’ve always been fond of chocolate liqueurs and was most dischuffed to see that I now had to throw out the rest of the box (the squirrel took only one, the bastard — I hope he had a hangover).

  239. Amanda says:

    By the way, I did own the wetsuit by then so god only knows where I hung it. On a branch outside the window, probably.

  240. Blackswan Tasmania says:


    Yeah, shame on me. Some bureaucratic fool has let yet another foreign species on our shores. Like all that have gone before it, WHEN it gets loose and goes feral, that’s a bit more of the country trashed.

    That will result in another Govt dept employing more idiots to decide how to get rid of them.

    But they’re so fluffy, so sweeeet…………

  241. Amanda says:

    Blackswan: It will get loose and it will go native: that’s what squirrels do. They’re crafty, ruthless, resourceful, beady-eyed buggers: rather like humans, in fact.

  242. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    That’s what I figured.

  243. Pointman says:

    Swanny, Amanda,

    You’ve no idea of what you’re going up against, Squirrels never give up, no matter the colour of their butt.


  244. memoryvault says:


    Isn’t that prophylactic?

  245. Pointman says:

    If you wanna go after doze Squirrelz, you gotta go Chicago style.


  246. Pointman says:

    memoryvault August 1, 2010 at 10:52 am

    “prophylactic”. Nah, nah, nah. That’s where you stab people when they’ve been stung by a Squirrel.


  247. Amanda says:

    Pointman: That doesn’t surprise me A BIT (though I did chuckle at it). The squirrel that was so intent on getting in through my window — god knows why, he only got that one chocolate out of it — used to chatter outside and peer in at me when the window was shut — right in the eye — as if to say ‘you know I’m going to come in. The window’s shut right now, but eventually you’ll want to open it. And when you do, I shall be there. Ha ha ha ha ha!’

    I kid you not.

  248. Pointman says:

    Amanda August 1, 2010 at 10:42 am

    “It will get loose and it will go native: that’s what squirrels do”

    Every knows. Come with me Marsupials if you want to live


  249. Amanda says:

    Pointy: I like him better as The Governator.

  250. memoryvault says:


    Squirrels sting?

    I thought they chewed your nuts off.

  251. Pointman says:

    That’s Amanda’s dog.


  252. Pointman says:

    Squirrels chew nuts. It’s nuts ordinare for them. They’re brutally simple cratures. The question is; would you let one of them marry your daughter?


  253. memoryvault says:

    No, Amanda’s dog only attacks padded arms.
    I saw it on a peer-viewed video clip, so it must be true.

  254. memoryvault says:

    And I was watching from a pier, so even blow job would agree with me

  255. Amanda says:

    Actually the dog in the video is a girl: hence the nipples. Silly me. Shame that Blackswan thinks Ch*mmy’s a terror, now. If you could only meet her… she’d probably be putty in your hands…

  256. memoryvault says:

    After pondering the question for some time I asked Mrs MV if we would let our daughter marry a squirrel.

    Mrs MV said we don’t have a daughter.

  257. Pointman says:

    Okay MV,

    I can see where you’re going with this one. There are problems though mate. First we’d have to borrow Amanda’s boxer from her, find a venue and get some sort of co-operation from BJ (or at least an agreed headstart).

    Seriously mate, if you can crack those two, then I’ll start making book. My money’s on the dog but I’ve got to give the punters a chance.


  258. memoryvault says:


    ” . . . she’d probably be putty in your hands . . . . . ”

    Blackswan is an Aussie.

    We have that effect on females.

  259. memoryvault says:

    Will Amanda be wearing her wetsuit?

  260. Amanda says:

    Guys (all you macho, macho men): get a load of this [fresh-water] fish in Texas. A minnow it ain’t.

  261. memoryvault says:

    If so, she might need the headstart, given your proclivities in that direction.

  262. amanda why do they call them boxers I have yet to see any of them win the heavy weight championship belt yet?
    As for squirrels they can be eaten so if you fancy a snack? Oddly enough one them tasted of brandy liqueurs.

  263. Amanda says:

    MV: You may have that effect on my girl, since she’s a ‘female’. I on the other hand am a woman. Different thing entirely.

  264. memoryvault says:


    Those fish look like they were stung by a squirrel.

  265. Pointman says:


    Agreed. Squirrels’ paw marks all over it. Who’re they trying to kid?


  266. memoryvault says:


    Ah yes.

    But Blackswan is a TASSIE Aussie.

    Females of ALL species are helpless before them.

    Got something to do with living on an island off Antarctica.

  267. Amanda says:

    Crown: LOL. Was it a Saganaki squirrel?

    As for the name, a lot of people think it’s the English word boxer, not surprisingly since Boxers do ‘box’: they like to get up to chest level (to kiss, like as not), and they bat each other with their front paws, as if boxing, in play. (My girl puts an arm over an object we’re playing with — an old pair of tights, for instance — because if it were a wild animal that’s how she would grapple with it (not including her jaws, of course).) But the word derives from Boxl, in German, and no one knows what that derives from. The original dogs were really fearsome-looking creatures who really were bred to bring down wild boars etc. (don’t tell Blackswan!) and grip hold with their jaws (hence the short face, so they could clamp hold and yet breathe), and not let go till the hunter arrived.* These were the Brabanter Bullenbeiser and related breeds, all ultimately derived from the very ancient mastiffs.

    The Germans in the old days bred them for fearlessness; but for a long time now they have been bred for goodness of temper, companionableness, and so on. My dog starts very easily, and if she doesn’t recognize what a flapping piece of plastic is, she might at first back off. But then she investigates. She is not stupidly fearless but she IS brave. She is also very sensitive, very much a mummy’s and daddy’s girl. My vet said he had never seen any dog so upset by being sterilized as she was. (I made it up to her by kicking out her dad and letting her sleep with me that night.)

    *Boxers don’t enjoy retrieving because it’s not in their genes. If I throw a ball or something to Chummy — yes I dropped the asterisk — she will stand over it and pwaw it but not bring it back to me. In other words, she’s stopping it from ‘getting away’ — that’s her ancestral job!

  268. Amanda says:

    oh geez, sorry, I wrote a book. Shut up now about the dog, Amanda….

  269. memoryvault says:


    And did you notice they didn’t have any nuts?

    Chewed em right off, I tell ya.
    Vicious little devils.

  270. Amanda says:

    MW: Well I didn’t say that Blackswan had no charms. I’ve noticed that already.

  271. amanda take no notice of mv this is Australias hidden secret about it’s men.

  272. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    I’ve been sprung.

  273. memoryvault says:

    Hi Blackswan

    Crown has exposed our skeleton in the closet.
    You think maybe we could blame the Kiwis for that little aberration?

  274. Amanda says:

    Quite right, Crown. They probably wear wedge-heels and diamante Y-fronts. The loudest he-men always do.

    By the way I ‘friended’ you. Do I need to confess or something? I mean we were friends already, but now it’s on Arsebook.

  275. Pointman says:

    memoryvault August 1, 2010 at 12:03 pm

    You can’t bullshit a good dog. We’re good at the BS thing but they’re not. I like them and they like me. We get on. It’s easy. I just don’t have their ability to wait.


  276. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    It does appear a lot of Aussie blokes like to throw on a frock. Check out the odd “footy show” – someone will have their lippy on and a pair of stilettos.

  277. Amanda says:

    So now we get to the truth….

    Are they hunky? Or are they funky? Now we find out!

  278. memoryvault says:


    Not to mention Alexander Downer in fishnets at a drag show.

    No wonder nobody takes us seriously.

  279. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    And this is what REALLY goes on in Sydney;

    Help, get me outta there!!

  280. amanda at least they all like disco music and can dance you have to give them that.
    This is a scene from true grit.


  281. memoryvault says:

    Yeah – they’re a queer lot in Sydney

  282. amanda you should like this one.


  283. suffolkboy says:

    Can’t stop. Am off to the supermarket to get my Sunday lunch. We’re not allowed beef in Suffolk any more because the county is a “transition” zone (twinned with Darebin, VIC, ). It’s the cows farting at thee, y’know. We are allowed boxers, however, as a defence against squirrels looking for nuts.

  284. Amerloque says:

    Hi Blackswan Tasmania !

    On August 1, 2010 at 9:14 am

    /// Squirrels are completely unknown here, so if they “get out there” like rabbits, rats, mice, pigeons, sparrows, pigs, horses, camels, buffalo, cane toads, European carp, foxes, cats and dogs and become completely FERAL…… what’s the upshot?
    What do they actually DO that makes them pesky?///

    In res squirrels

    As a child in SoCal in the 1950s, Amerloque Learned all about Davy Crockett and Daniel Boone.


    Squirrel Stew


    1 squirrel, quartered
    1 cup diced onion
    2 large tomatoes (from your garden) or 1 can of tomatoes
    Assorted fresh ,or canned veggies
    Sprinkle seasoned salt, pepper, and cayenne pepper (optional) liberally on the meat. Pour some cooking oil into a large pot (dutch oven). Sauté the meat with the onions until well browned. Drain the excess oil, add about 2 cups water, and bring to a boil. Cut up the tomatoes and add. If you use canned tomatoes add them now. Turn down the heat, and let slow cook for at least an hour. Important: older squirrels may require cooking longer than an hour. Check periodically for tenderness. If you don’t you will have a hard time chewing the meat. After the meat is tender, add the veggies, carrots, potatoes, banana pepper, what ever you like. Cook until the veggies are done. An option you can use is, cook up your favorite pasta and serve over the pasta. (eliminate the potatoes). That’s it, nice and simple. ///

    More squirrel recipes here:

    You wanna stay away from woodchucks, though:

    /// Squirrels are almost never found to have rabies. And squirrels have not been known to cause rabies in humans within the United States. Bites from a squirrel are not normally considered a risk for rabies. Most small rodents and lagomorphs rarely develop rabies; however, woodchucks accounted for 86 percent of rabies cases among rodents reported to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) from 1985 through 1994.///

    If you play your cards right, you’ll be invited onto talkshows, just like a thermogeddonist ! (grin)


    Amerloque 20100801 09h00 Paris time (CET)

  285. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Crown @3.49pm

    Your link about our PM Jooolya Gizzard – good news indeed that people are starting to wake up. The final sentence in that piece says…….

    “Labor cabinet minister Craig Emerson said the government still had three weeks to appeal to voters before polling day but conceded the election would be close.”

    Now, as we know, the PM is a spinster currently shacked up with her hairdresser who drives her taxpayer funded Camry, speeding and running red lights.

    Dare I point out, the said Craig Emerson the Labor Cabinet colleague, is the same bloke with whom she had an open 2 year affair, even though he was married with three kids.

    They even put a question in a poll the other day, “Would you be happier to vote Labor if the PM and her partner got married?”

    Anyone for Sunday afternoon tea? Nice slice of tart going cheap here in Oz.

    Swanny, and all: even our own Australian Labor Party have seen the future, and are putting their money, if not where their mouths are, then where their heart of hearts are. Check out this – Oz

  286. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    suffolkboy says:
    August 1, 2010 at 4:23 pm


    Have a great lunch. Your link was interesting in that it seems squirrels “were once a staple of the national diet and made into soups, pies and casseroles.”

    Once upon a time, it was unthinkable for kangaroo or emu to be commercially sold and eaten in OZ. Today it’s becoming quite acceptable in gourmet “bush tucker” restaurants, and “sold” as being healthy low-fat game, along with crocodile, camel and water buffalo.

    People usually get “snippy” about what they will and won’t eat, unless they are hungry and can’t afford to feed themselves or their children. Maybe the introduction of squirrel against all logic and experience of feral animals, is to lay down an easy food source for “when the lights go out”.

  287. Blackswan your country your politics but will it make difference who is in charge as to AGW, labour seems hell bent on destroying your minerals industry and turning the lights out. Will the opposition do anything different?

  288. Oh guys don’t introduce American tucker it’s hardy and will destroy local wildlife, like MacDonalds it’s insidious.

  289. Edward. says:


    Something is wrong in Europe and has been for some time.
    The economic strait-jacket the Northern Europeans have forced the Greeks to wear is coming apart at the seams, this is not been reported upon in Blighty, obviously our masters and betters do not wish the British public to witness the ongoing violence and state implosion happening in Greece – it’s off message.
    It should be reported because some eejits in Britain are oblivious to the state of anarchy in Greece and the poor buggers might even be contemplating a holiday there (God knows why!).
    For the life on me I cannot understand why the Spanish haven’t kicked off yet, their economy is busted and they have massive unemployment, not all is hunky dory in the la la land of the Eurozone – something will have to give.
    Once again the beeb is complicit in closing down reportage in Greece to placate their masters in the politburo of Bruxelles, Dr. North thinks it might even manifest itself on the streets of Britain, the oil tanker drivers are unhappy in Blighty and they have shown before that they can bring the country to a standstill in a matter of days.

    EU referendum:
    One wonders whether our bubble-dwellers in the British establishment – and their happy little claqueurs – really think it could not happen here. And, when it does, therefore, not only will they be shocked, they will be mortified to find that the “extremists” have the support of the population, and they don’t.
    And here:


  290. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Amerloque, mate….

    Ya doin’ ma head in!

    I had to Google to find out what a woodchuck is. Then I thought “what’s a gopher?”, then a “prairie dog”, then a “groundhog”. Wait a minute, doesn’t a groundhog look like a woodchuck?. Then that prairie dog sure looks like a gopher.

    I think I’ll gopher a beer.

    The squirrel recipe looks good. I have one for a galah, a very common Australian parrot.

    You take a galah (or two) and put them into a cast iron pot over your campfire. A few carrots and onions for extra flavour, and be sure to put a big smooth river stone in the bottom of the pan.
    Simmer gently until the stone becomes soft and tender, then your galah is ready.

    Bon appetit.

  291. Locusts says:

    Wow, good article Ed!

    Calling any Greek readers, contribute comments and observations please!

  292. NoIdea says:


    Looking at various links I have found some interesting items. While I am sure bje will not even read this post as it is far too long for his somewhat limited attention span, I hope that it may catch the attention of izen or any other hyper intelligent AI constructs.


    (Thanks to Orkneylad)
    “CO2 does not affect the Earth’s climate through the greenhouse effect”
    “The law of radiative exchange equilibrium. The Ed=Su A relationship holds because the contribution of a layer to the downward emittance is equal to the absorbed surface upward radiation in the same layer. This law turns out to be valid for any cloud layer in the atmosphere and even holds true in the Martian atmosphere.”
    Have you looked at that paper?
    Can you find fault with it?


    Click to access Kerry%20Emanuel_%20Phaeton%27s%20Reins.pdf

    I found that Kerry did an outstanding job explaining why computer models are useless for dealing with climate change.
    (Thanks to izen)
    “Important uncertainties enter the picture, then, with water (especially clouds) and airborne particulates. But the uncertainties actually go much deeper: indeed, to understand long-term climate change, it is essential to appreciate that detailed forecasts cannot, even in principle, be made beyond a few weeks. That is because the climate system, at least on short time scales, is chaotic.
    The essential property of chaotic systems is that small differences tend to magnify rapidly. Think of two autumn leaves that have fallen next to each other in a turbulent brook. Imagine following them as they move downstream on their way to the sea: at first, they stay close to each other, but the eddies in the stream gradually separate them. At some point, one of the leaves may get temporarily trapped in a whirlpool behind a rock while the other continues downstream. It is not hard to imagine that one of the
    leaves arrives at the mouth of the river days or weeks ahead of the other. It is also not hard to imagine that a mad scientist, having equipped our brook with all kinds of fancy instruments for measuring the flow of water and devised a computer program for predicting where the leaves would go, would find it almost impossible to predict where the leaf would be even an hour after it started its journey.
    Let’s go back to the two leaves just after they have fallen in the
    (Kerry Emanuel: Phaeton’s Reins 08/23/2007 05:16 PM Page 10 of 22)
    brook, and say that at this point they are ten inches apart.
    Suppose that after 30 minutes they are ten feet apart, and this distance increases with time. Now suppose that it were possible to rewind to the beginning but this time start the leaves only five inches apart. It would not be surprising if it took longer—say an hour—before they are once again 10 feet apart. Keep rewinding the experiment, each time decreasing the initial distance between the leaves. You might suppose that the time it takes to get 10 feet apart keeps increasing indefinitely. But for many physical systems (probably including brooks), this turns out not to be the case. As you keep decreasing the initial separation, the increases in the amount of time it takes for the leaves to be separated by 10 feet get successively smaller, so much so that there is a definite limit: no matter how close the leaves are when they hit the water, it will not take longer than, say, six hours for them to be ten feet apart.
    The same principle applies if, instead of having two leaves, we have a single leaf and a computer model of the leaf and the stream that carries it. Even if the computer model is perfect and we start off with a perfect representation of the state of the brook, any error—even an infinitesimal one—in the timing or position of the leaf when it begins its journey will lead to the forecast being off by at least ten feet after six hours, and greater distances at longer times. Prediction beyond a certain time is impossible.”

    Strangely, Kerry then goes on to try and prove that AGW is real using computer models…

    My favorite bit wasn’t found on the net, I found it in a very interesting BOOK by Ian Plimer called Heaven and Earth. Regarding the 2007 IPCC report (page 19)
    “In the 2007 report, the health effects of global warming were expertly dealt with by two lead authors, one of whom was a hygienist and another a specialist in coprolites (fossil faeces).”

    Well, is it any wonder you are confused if you believe a peer reviewed toothbrush and an old pooper snooper!
    Can you explain why I should listen to a failed dentist or an ancient shit sniffer?
    Why do you give such credence to such incredulous sources?
    IF you read some real scientists will you change your minds?


  293. Edward. says:

    Aussie rools.

    “LABOR’S election campaign is set to enter a new aggressive and negative phase designed to exert maximum pressure on Tony Abbott by highlighting his ”extremist” past rhetoric.”

    Joolya getting down and dirty…….now there’s an image to conjure with …..err or not!


  294. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Edward. says:
    August 1, 2010 at 7:17 pm

    Thanks Ed. Your link took me off to about four others. The more you drill down into this quagmire the more you see how truly rancid it is.

  295. manonthemoor says:

    Return on Investment

    Something for nothing
    Money for Old Rope
    I am all right Jack

    In these days of low interest rates, money is chasing the best return on investment and the search is on for the best deal (free meal).

    Whilst bankers, investment managers and financial advisors continue to skim off charges and commission, is Joe Public getting a good deal?

    Ethical investments have been one opportunity pushed by the money investment groups, on things like renewable and carbon credits, but if only one major group follows the current progress and information on Climategate then they could run for cover.

    Carbon credits could be the bellwether, the toll of doom for AGW, why because the ongoing failure to set a carbon price and hike the value, alongside various associated scams is bad news for the AGW scam and the associated money.

    The BBC staff are threatening to go on strike over pensions (will we miss them), and it is reported that they have large sums invested in Carbon Credits, in the same way ‘The Everyone and His Dog Union’ is threatening strikes either
    because of lack of return from Labour party funds invested, lack of return for effort expended or lack of return on pensions.

    From pensioners to professors this lack of return cannot be hidden forever, if the AGW bandwagon continues to stall, due to the disclosures surrounding Climategate and the obvious whitewashes surrounding the reviews.

    How much longer can these bad investments be hidden I have NoIdea

    Man on the Moor.

  296. Amerloque says:

    Hi Blackswan Tasmania !
    on August 1, 2010 at 7:13 pm

    In res galah

    Are older galahs tougher than the younger ones ? (smile)

    In res woodchuck

    Actually we Amerloques growing up in the 1950s were introduced to woodchucks at a very early age, via enunciation exercises in English class …

    We were taught to say quickly, five times:

    “How much wood would a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood ?

    A woodchuck would chuck all the wood he COULD chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood !”

    Now, back to your regular programs (grin)


  297. Edward. says:

    I must qualify a statement above, I do not want to tar all Greeks with the same brush, in fact my heart goes out to the many Greeks, who on past holidays have been so kind to me personally, I have had some great times there, though I have always preferred Spain, France and Italy, Greece has always been a troubled country caught as it is between the Turks and the West.

    It is sad to witness what is happening but me and many others in Northern Europe forecast this with an alarming prescience years ago and now it is coming to pass.

    It is the quiet ones, the hardworkers who will suffer the most and the innocent will be caught in the blood letting, there are many old scores to settle, the Balkans is the land of the vendetta but then all of Southern Europe is too.


  298. NoIdea says:

    Hiya Amerloque

    The woodchuck tongue twister reminds me of a simple but tricky one.
    Red leather, yellow leather… repeat until failure or boredom cut in.
    Red lorry, yellow lorry.
    Which is the trickiest?


  299. Amerloque says:

    Hi Edward !

    In res Greece

    Were you in Greece during the time of the Colonels’ dictatorship, when each person, including tourists, had to eat potatoes once per day ?

    A policeman in civvies was in every restaurant to ensure compliance.

    Since then, Amerloque has not been a big fan of fried potatoes. (grin)


  300. Edward. says:


    Whilst the Americans dither cap’n’trade is not completely buried just yet, there is still a chance for these dodgy investments to bear fruit, the whole of the Chicago Carbon Exchange is dependent on cap’n’trade, so is Obarmy, it is still a case of wait and see.

    I sincerely hope the whole caboodle ‘goes west’, the only thing to come out of Dopenhagen was a further commitment to carbon credits trading, to which the Beeb must have breathed a huge sigh of relief but that Kyoto protocol needs the renourishment of a new deal and it is looking increasingly unlikely (praise the lord!).

    It is all wheels within wheels Motm.


    Yes mate, I don’t know who is in the worse pooh, Aus or UK (UK I think – Australia is a young nation and has vast resources – not to be sniffed at in these uncertain times) but surely both nations do not deserve this (claque of loonytune politicians)… they?


  301. Amerloque says:

    Hi NoIdea !
    August 1, 2010 at 7:49 pm

    In res leather lorries (grin)

    /// Which is the trickiest? ///

    Weeeelll … dunno. (wide grin)

    Amerloque speaks American English with a native-born California accent. That means very, very little “traditional American regional accent”, since after WW2 thousands of people from all over the USA came to SoCal and setteled down.

    Amerloque remembers when his elementary school teacher(s) in a class of 25 or 30 would say “Raise your hand if you were born in California !” and Amerloque would be the only one to raise his hand (!), while everyone else raised their hands when teach said … “another state”. S/he never said “another country” since it was superfluous. …

    Regional accents were discouraged.

    Amerloque uses a “hard” letter r, and not the British one.

    Same for “leather”, in which the final letter r is “hard”, and not the British “leathe-uh”.

    Just tried them out: they are both equally boring ! (wide grin)


  302. Dave,Edinburgh says:

    BJedwards, August 1, 2010 at 7:27 am

    The burden of proof lies not with those who recognise the scam, it is on the shoulders of those with their snouts in the trough, the ones who advocate wasting trillions on an unproven hypothesis, money that would be better spent on the NHS, Education and a host of other worthy causes, rather than throw it away on some “greeny” fantasy.

    It is YOU who are “cornered by your bizarre stance that you have no ability to articulate or justify. You can’t hide from the truth or reality.”

    Why do you try to defend a broken hypothesis “Man-Made Global Warming is happening”, While every day fresh evidence proves that it isn’t. YES, there has been warming, (and cooling), since the Earth came out from the LIA, if not we would still be stuck in the LIA, but that warming has stopped, as the Earth’s climate moves into the cooling phase of a natural ~60 year oscillation.

    You remind me of a previous propagandists who was certain that only his version of events could be the truth, ‘Baghdad Bob’, who stated: “Everything is just fine, there will never be American troops in Baghdad” just as the World’s TV cameras panned to an M1 Abrams trundling round the corner, didn’t we just love him.

    That BJ, was empirical evidence, and the fact that today, you lot can’t produce any, speaks volumes. “Computers Predict”, “Moonbat says”, “Huhne thinks”, all mean diddly. Where are the “catastrophic” events that by now should be evident according to warmist scaremongering? There is NOTHING happening that can’t be easily explained as natural events that the Earth has experienced many times before.

    The Guardian rants about the Russian “heatwave” but fails to mention what caused a previous similar heatwave 130 years ago, or the previous European heatwave of 1540, when the river Rhine dried up and the river Seine was used as a thoroughfare, was that down to Man-Made Global Warming as well? A heatwave CAN’T be “unprecedented” if it’s happened before. Perhaps the clamour amongst warmists to equate any event with Climate Change should be recognised as a new medical condition, the ‘Baghdad Bob’ Syndrome.
    D E.

  303. manonthemoor says:

    August 1, 2010 at 7:54 pm

    Interesting link Ed but unfortunately 3months old now.

    GS did bad on Greece and also the disappearing Gulf Oil may show big O has been playing politics to boost cap’n’trade. Could be mother earth has her own agenda.

    The potential double dip in USA plus the loss of employment and oil revenues in the Gulf will all play a part against cap’n’trade game I suspect.

  304. manonthemoor says:

    August 1, 2010 at 9:08 pm

    Dave you said it all —– Thank you

    Anything related to the hypothesis of climate or weather more than 6 months old is out of date, the world has mover on. The truth is reality AGW is toast.

    Now we need to manage the political an financial rundown as the idiots run for cover.

    Will IPCC5 ever happen?
    Will IPCC5 have any credibility?
    Will Mexico change anything?

    Wait and see time but WE ARE WINNING and the likes of bje and Izen are losing

  305. Pointman says:

    “A dark ideology is driving those who deny climate change”

    “Elsewhere, more than 2,000 Russians – many drunk – drowned trying to cool off in lakes and rivers …”

    The Guardian stoking up the climate of fear. 2,000 drowned? A nice round number with no way to check it. Infowar.


  306. manonthemoor says:

    August 1, 2010 at 9:29 pm

    Is this the Guardianists reaction to the Monbiot v Watts ‘illusion’ the other day

    Only time will tell … Interesting to watch though

  307. Amerloque says:

    Hello all !

    Here’s an excerpt from the “European Journal of Public Health”:

    “Responding to denialism

    Denialists are driven by a range of
    motivations. For some it is greed, lured
    by the corporate largesse of the oil
    and tobacco industries. For others it is
    ideology or faith, causing them to reject
    anything incompatible with their fundamental
    beliefs. Finally there is eccentricity
    and idiosyncrasy, sometimes
    encouraged by the celebrity status conferred
    on the maverick by the media.
    Whatever the motivation, it is important
    to recognize denialism when confronted
    with it. The normal academic
    response to an opposing argument is to
    engage with it, testing the strengths and
    weaknesses of the differing views, in
    the expectations that the truth will
    emerge through a process of debate.
    However, this requires that both parties
    obey certain ground rules, such as a
    willingness to look at the evidence as
    a whole, to reject deliberate distortions
    and to accept principles of logic.
    A meaningful
    discourse is impossible when
    one party rejects these rules. Yet it
    would be wrong to prevent the denialists
    having a voice. Instead, we argue, it is
    necessary to shift the debate from the
    subject under consideration, instead
    exposing to public scrutiny the tactics
    they employ and identifying them
    publicly for what they are. …”

    Full document at:

    Amerloque 20100801 13h58

  308. orkneylad says:

    IPCC “Consensus” on Solar Influence was Only One Solar Physicist who Agreed with Her Own Paper [June 24th 2010]

    On the basis of this “consensus of one” solar physicist, the IPCC proclaimed solar influences upon the climate to be minimal. Objection to this was raised by the Norwegian government as shown in the AR4 second draft comments below (and essentially dismissed by the IPCC): “I would encourage the IPCC to [re-]consider having only one solar physicist on the lead author team of such an important chapter. In particular since the conclusion of this section about solar forcing hangs on one single paper in which J. Lean is a coauthor. I find that this paper, which certainly can be correct, is given too much weight”…: continues “As I wrote elsewhere (article on pmode ACRIM), Judith Lean, along with Claus Frohlich, are responsible for the scandalous rewriting of graphs of solar activity. Satellites showed that the TSI (measured in watts) between 1986 and 96 increased by about one third. Judith Lean and Claus Frohlich (authors of the single study noted above) “manipulated” the data. People who were in charge of the satellites and created the original graphs (the world’s best astrophysics: Doug Hoyt, Richard C. Willson), protested in vain against such manipulation. Wilson: “Fröhlich has made changes that are wrong .

    …Since the appropriate questions were not asked, the IPCC knows little about the sun. While the rest of the IPCC AR4 is rich in graphics, there is not a single graph of cosmic radiation, solar cycle lengths, or geomagnetism – which is very strange because they are important indicators of solar activity. The IPCC reports should be a comprehensive, complete summary of current scientific knowledge. It’s due to the fact that these indicators say what alarmists don’t want to hear. These indicators of rising solar activity 1970-1990s show global warming (in whole or in substantial part) can be explained naturally and is not the fault of humans. The IPCC deliberately hid these graphs from readers under the principle of hide the decline.”

    The graphs the IPCC didn’t want you to see:

  309. Amerloque says:

    Of interest. Older ref, but excellent !

    Weather chronicler relates of medieval disasters
    Heatwave nowadays ‘bearable’

    Publish Date: Oct 07, 2003
    Excerpts from the Windmill

    /// DE BILT, the Netherlands – While the 2003 heatwave might rate a distinct entry in the record books, it hardly is the most severe summer to ever strike the Netherlands. Modern Dutch man, with his continued quest to ‘seek the sun’, is quite capable of dealing with the solar onslaught. In fact, most people considered the Summer of 2003 to be quite pleasant.
    Heatwaves in earlier days, not unlike other harsh weather phenomenons, were more intrusive, and often disastrous. These days, many cars and office buildings have air conditioning, beverages are stored in fridges and ice cream makers are a growth industry. Consider the situation in earlier times when 35 degree temperatures or higher resulted in spoiled food and milk, and danger of fire everywhere.
    That concludes historical geographer and retired science teacher Jan Buisman, who has dedicated much of his life to recording, investigating and analysing extreme weather conditions. Exact information on the weather in the Netherlands has been recorded since 1706.


    Duizend jaar weer, wind en water in the Lage Landen (One Thousand Years Weather, Wind and Water in the Low Countries) is a multi-volume standard work by Buisman, who has reached the year 1720 at the end of the just-published part IV. Another three volumes will complete the work.
    According to Buisman’s recent findings, the year 1540 was one with an even more severe summer than was 2003. All over Europe, the heatwave lasted, off and on, for seven months, with parched fields and dried up rivers, such as the Rhine. People in Paris, France could walk on the river bed of the Seine without getting their feet wet.

    …/… ///

    Amerloque 20100801 14h00

  310. Locusts says:


    I bet their feet got smelly though.

  311. CriticalThinker says:

    Amerloque says:
    August 1, 2010 at 10:00 pm

    Re “Denialism: what is it and how should scientists respond?”

    I think this must be part of the series commissioned by the EUSSR apparatchiks called – “How to fool more of the people, more of the time”.

    The working title of this particular piece was – “How to deal with those foolish enough to try thinking for themselves.”

    (The EU really is full of it.)

  312. bjedwards says:

    So orkneylad admits he is a 9/11 Denier also. Do you think I am surprised?

    Back to the subject at hand. As our climate science deniers here back into the corner, not one of them has been able to explain WHY they should be against the overwhelming peer-reviewed science demonstrating that AGW is real.

    This, of course, is the crux of the issue. ALL deniers must actively deny and evade the fundamental basis of the subject at hand. You deniers here know full well that the science of climate change completely affirms anthropogenic climate change. There is no way around it. All you end up doing is cutting and pasting claims from our climate science deniers and the minority of actual skeptical scientists in one orgy after another of confirmation bias in hope that you can attract equally gullible and nutty people to your “cause.”

    You’ll never admit that you are wrong and that your political goals are completely transparent. You throw ethics out the window as you trample on scientists and their reputations so you can yell incoherently on street corners.

    Do you think you deserve anyone’s respect? Think again. You are why scientists in all fields are fighting back, exposing your hideous denial of all things real.

  313. Hi, Guys and guyettes. Am happy to have had time off, and am setting up shop in Boston (that’s Bwah-stun, to those who have never been there) , as have signed off on a letter of intent to do the animated film once funding is positioned, which is why I am here.

    Cap-and-trade has been dead since the budget filed by the Prez indicated that carbon trading by the EPA–like NOx SOx and VM trading—are to yield a revenue-neutral end-of-year tally by Congressional order. This also means no carbon tax, even on a state level, as to do so now will technically be un-Constitutional. Go to the site and pull down the budget for yourself. This policy goes out to 2022. I believe the budget has already been approved by both Houses (or not?).

    PLEASE get your revisions in and Ozboy has the budget, too, when the script is fully optioned (60-90 days, baruch Hashem). Noidea is the only guy who has taken on the job. He gets your cut if you guys don’t kick in by 7 August.

    Boston is completely different from the rest of the country, as Mass. Governor Patrick’s state is flush with a massive industrial growth rate and GDP growth for the state around 6%, four times the rest of the country’s average. Needless to say, this is a Republican state and Boston is a Republican city. You can always tell Irish but you can’t tell them much. The Governor will not even sign the bill to approve gambling casinos here. Take that crap to NJ, is the thinking.

    I think as goes the States on this, so goes everyone else. I know the Feds are probably going to cut off UEA’s budget, based on their investigations, too.

    Any word on Attorney General Cucinelli’s review of Michael Unmanned’s degree review in Virginia?

    Death to ecotards LOL!

  314. bjedwards says:

    “Skepticism in one direction is denial.”
    Published Saturday July 31st, 2010

    “A letter published July 30 did a grave disservice to your readers by making false and defamatory statements about me and other climate scientists. It repeats false allegations (based on illegally hacked emails) of supposed scientific misconduct (e.g. the supposed destruction of data) that have now been rejected as false by three separate investigations in the U.K.

    “A similar investigation by my university has exonerated me of any of the wrongdoing alleged by climate change deniers. Unfortunately, these exonerations cannot stop individuals from repeating the false allegations.

    “The writer parrots the false claim that I have advised colleagues “to isolate and ignore scientific journals that publish the views of the global-warming skeptics.” This claim is based on a thorough misrepresentation of a single example: a deeply flawed paper in 2003 published by the journal “Climate Research” by Willie Soon & Sallie Baliunas claiming that recent warming is not unusual.

    “I did in fact have concerns about the paper and the process that led to its publication. The journal’s editor-in-chief Hans Von Storch found that the paper “was flawed” and “shouldn’t have been published” and half the editorial board quit in protest of its publication.

    “Climate change deniers object to the term, using instead “skeptic” to describe those who deny the overwhelming evidence of human-caused climate change. “Skepticism” is a good thing in science. But when it is applied in only one direction it is not “skepticism” at all, but indeed, denial.

    “It is ironic that scientists (including myself) are accused of dishonesty. It is those who spread false information about science and scientists – whether knowingly, or parroting the disinformation of others – who do the greatest harm to the public discourse on vital issues such as climate change.”


    Professor, Dept. of Meteorology, Penn State University Director, Penn State Earth System Science Center

  315. manonthemoor says:

    August 2, 2010 at 12:33 am


    Who stands to make loads of moolha out of AGW

    Simple really

  316. Locusts says:

    As our climate science deniers here back into the corner, not one of them has been able to explain WHY they should be against the overwhelming peer-reviewed science demonstrating that AGW is real.

    Thank you for proving that you have not carefully read our posts.

  317. CriticalThinker says:


    AGW is a smoke-screen, nothing more than science-fiction designed to distract us from the ongoing destruction of democracy, freedom and liberty. Everyone here knows that, so by all means continue wasting your time defending the non-science.

    AGW = FEAR and CONTROL – a power play designed to advance the socialist agenda.

  318. manonthemoor says:

    Happy (if somewhat crazed) Boston Bear RGDS
    August 2, 2010 at 12:34 am

    Welcome back sir glad you enjoyed you holiday

    Sorry lots to catch up on


  319. orkneylad says:

    So orkneylad admits he is a 9/11 Denier also.
    Please quote me in a copy/paste where I’ve written ANY personal opinion of my own on the 9/11 matter……[oh well you can’t because I haven’t]…….You are so stupid I can hardly believe it… taking candy from a baby! LMFAO

    For the record, I don’t know enough of the 9/11 background & evidence -on either side of the issue- to make any kind of judgement…….which is why I haven’t [and is also why your comment could be construed as libelous].

    Your remind me of those old stereo-8 cartridges; obsolete, crap quality & playing an endless loop of Osmond tunes…….I really do feel sorry for you.

    You started on the figs yet? You really do need to flush your system before the filth consumes you completely.

  320. Old Toad says:

    MOTM. Edward et al. I go away for a couple of days (to Wales to see if it is ‘free’ or not) and find another blog almost full, and that JD has moved on to crowing that he was right after all, about the oil spill.
    However back to the earlier topic, has the Guardian upstaged the Telegraph over Richard North’s right of reply blog.
    I rather think that this was more of a gesture to inhibit possible legal action than a change in editorial policy. Whatever, it gave the usual ‘attack dogs’ ‘Cannaman’ Dorlomin’, ‘ArRebours’ et al , at the Guardian a chance to attempt to rip apart that Great Bear, ‘spacedout’ (Richard North).
    The great bulk of the favourable ‘recommends’ went to Dr North and his supporters, which is heartening news to us ‘realists’, but I doubt if it will usher in a new regime of overall tolerance.
    George Monbiot (‘freewales’) does like to be seen as the ‘honest broker’, but I doubt that he will tolerate us hijacking his blog for much longer. After all we haven’t heard a dicky bird from him since North’s blog appeared, unless, of course, he’s got a pseudonym.

  321. Old Toad says:

    Much as I support Her Majesty the Queen, I worry more and more about her eldest son. Many people are horrified at the article James has written about him in the ‘Spectator’, but when I saw the whole page article that HRH THE PRINCE OF WALES has written in yesterday’s Telegraph, I began to despair. This man is so out of touch, the old question about which planet he’s on, needs to be asked. His article is entitled ‘Time is running out and fast.But giving up is simply not an option’. So what is his ‘practical answer ? He says -‘There are in fact endless possibilities to consider – such as recycling bath water on to the garden in the summer, or turning old curtain material into what could perhaps become a series fashionable bags – Things I am doing myself !’

  322. orkneylad says:

    brad edwards is all about cherry picking …and “fighting fascists” apparently
    Posted by Lombeer | June 4, 2010, 6:39 pm

    There are some lovely jems scattered all over the net…..our resident Dodo appears to be unwelcome everywhere. LMAO

  323. orkneylad says:

    Great article here guys n’ gals:

    Closing out dissent by Bob Carter
    August 1, 2010

    The phenomena of disinvitation and the brotherhood of silence


  324. Amerloque says:

    /// Time to Turn Up the Heat on the Warmists

    …/… The Climateers, however, can change as quickly as what they claim to care about. For example, robbed of settled-science sleight-of-hand, MIT climate scientist Kerry Emanuel now states, “We do not have the luxury of waiting for scientific certainty [before acting]. . . .”

    Ah, that’s the ticket. Before we had to do something because of certainty; now we have to do something because of uncertainty.


    … We have been had. And one question remains: Will justice be done?

    Let us be clear on the gravity of the Climateers’ crime: They have used billions of our tax money to fund fraudulent science. And why?

    For the purposes of promoting policies that would steal billions more.

    And what happens now? Do they just get to say “Oops” and slink away?


    First, we need to adopt an aggressive stance. We should cast from office any politician who facilitated the climate-change fraud. Next, we need to press for criminal investigations into and charges against Climateers whenever possible. And, when such a remedy isn’t, we should resort to civil-court action when feasible.

    Lastly … the Climateers should be treated as pariahs and not allowed a moment’s rest. Some may say this is out of bounds, but scorn and ostracism are powerful corrective forces. Besides, if the law cannot hold these elites to account, the peasants with pitchforks must step into the breach.///

  325. Amerloque says:

    Hi (qualifier) Bear !

    Good to see you back !


  326. Edward. says:

    “It is ironic that scientists (including myself) are accused of dishonesty. It is those who spread false information about science and scientists – whether knowingly, or parroting the disinformation of others – who do the greatest harm to the public discourse on vital issues such as climate change.”


    Now surely that is a 10/10 in the hypocrisy stakes, is it not?
    I have been so tempted to highlight this piece of idiocy but have avoided it till now and now that our resident eejit has quoted from the Penn State Oracle, I find that I cannot resist.

    Now that is really funny, another comedian is born, he should really take a reality check the man is so up himself, the sanctimonious, pompous, baby faced, arse wipe.

    He has been part of a crew of lying manipulators who have taken millions in government funding, YES MILLIONS EVEN BILLIONS!!

    How they have tried and tried, to come up with even the tiniest shred to evidence to prove and validate their nebulously vague idea, that man made CO2 is causing runaway warming………………… a completely fatuous concept.

    Boy though, you have to give it to these guys, they have tried their damndest and come up with a whole lot of nada, nowt, nothing, rien but that doesn’t stop these appalling idiots from going on the offensive, post normal science teaches it.

    When the game is up and there is no proof, attack the opposition with fury, accuse them of dirty tricks (the same ones you have used all along) and vilify the realists in the press (which is on your side- lets face it the establishment has too much to lose here). So bluster, lie, prevaricate, look into the camera with those innocent eyes and say I am the victim……..all say ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh and I say ARRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHH!

    Which is what you get when a post normal idea is set in stone by the ‘consensus’ in the hope that the climatologists will be able to prove AGW!

    Well it didn’t happen, the hypothesis was all just that HYPE and no substance, smoke and mirrors, advocates are deserting the ship like rats and all you can do is rearrange the deckchairs Mann.

    So the focus was changed to cataclysmic weather events and so the new focus became by some miracle, CLIMATE CHANGE, fuck me though that isn’t working, the public somehow smells the dead rat, it was supposed to be soooooo eeeeeeeeasy but you over egged the whole shebang.

    CC was supposed to be about massive super hurricanes…..errr no……it was supposed to be about err droughts, heat waves, floods and all of a sudden you were contradicting yourselves, droughts and floods?? Such fuckwittedness, Mann and Jones were at the vanguard in the engine room of the IPCC, masters of all you surveyed.

    Hubristic outrageous claims were ‘the rage’, the Himalayas were melting! The Amazon was drying out! The Arctic was becoming a warm sea! Greenland was melting so was the Antarctic, the world was going to hell in a handcart, alack!!!!

    Can’t you see? It is classic, when the game is up, what does anybody (in politics) do? – They start to slam the opposition, IN Michael Mann people have come to recognise a liar, charlatan and snake oil salesman.
    History will record that you Mann, were a sham and found out in your own lifetime, there can be no reconciliation and no ersatz whitewash inquiry can resurrect your battered reputation, it exhibits what a pathetic excuse of a man you are by turning on your so called accusers and miserably once again crying wolf.

    Remember Mickey, people thought crop circles were created by aliens, it can be that you can fool some of the people some of the time, however ‘the trick is’ to hide the design.
    Not good enough, not clever enough, just a thicko climatologist well out of his depth.

    bje get a life.


  327. Edward. says:


    Yes sir that link was well out of date, I used it to highlight how deep this thing runs, I know you are up to speed but some others may not be, Obama is up to his neck in all of this, as is the BBC and many others, it is as you say a case of follow the money!

    CAGW = global monetary scam.
    Conspiracy? yes of course it is and it is big, very big.

    @Welcome Bostonian Bear, hope you had a good R+R and are not too crazed.


  328. orkneylad says:

    “A rare invention to destroy the crowd
    Of fools at home instead of fools abroad.
    Fear not, my friends, this terrible machine,
    They’re only wounded who have shares therein.”


    “Subscribers here by thousands float,
    And jostle one another down,
    Each paddling in his leaky boat,
    And here they fish for gold and drown.

    Now buried in the depths below,
    Now mounted up to heaven again,
    They reel and stagger to and fro,
    At their wit’s end, like drunken men.

    Meantime, secure on Garraway cliffs,
    A savage race, by shipwrecks fed,
    Lie waiting for the foundered skiffs,
    And strip the bodies of the dead.”

  329. bjedwards says:

    Denialism on display:

    “FOLLOW THE MONEY. Who stands to make loads of moolha out of AGW.”
    (9/11 “Truthers” favorite strawman, too.)

    “Thank you for proving that you have not carefully read our posts.”
    Thank you for illustrating that cutting and pasting other deniers is your game.

    “AGW = FEAR and CONTROL – a power play designed to advance the socialist agenda.”
    Yup, it’s always a deep, dark conspiracy theory concocted by thousands of independent, widely-dispersed climate scientists, in cohorts with the “vast worldwide conspiracy” by _____________ (fill in the blank with your favorite imaginary group.)

    “Please quote me in a copy/paste where I’ve written ANY personal opinion of my own on the 9/11 matter……”
    Read your post above, or feel free to deny you wrote it.

    “our resident Dodo [sic] appears to be unwelcome everywhere. “
    Don’t forget to mention that all manner of deniers are the only ones to hate me. At least you admit you are in their good company.

    Our resident science deniers once again demonstrate why they need to evade tell us WHY they should be against the overwhelming peer-reviewed science demonstrating that AGW is real.

    Completely trapped in their own falling house of cards, filled with imaginary conspiracy theories for which they can provide no plausible hypothesis, and completely unable to articulate any rational scientific reason why they should choose to be climate science deniers.

    You’re so easy to flush out.

  330. Hello, MOTM! It is good to be here again, too. My brain is somewhat slightly refreshed and I am ready to rip on this project. I am practicing by Les Grossman lines as in “Tropic Thunder:” Who here’s the key grip? and all that. Pls send out the revisions you might have noted and Bob’s your uncle.

    Hello, Edward. We’ve won. The greentards just do not know it yet. Wind farms base their financing on pre-sells on the carbon credits. A lot of projects have been killed already. They are having a Zus Bielski “Defiance” on the receiving end, not the dishing-out side LOL! Such is the fate all ecofascists deserve.

    Why they jusat don’t get it is beyond me: no one is going to finance a whirligig if it ain’t going to make money back for everyone concerned. Go figure.

  331. BJE:

    I have some winged carbon dioxide molecules to sell you, if you like. 5 bucks a dozen. I will even let you count them out.

  332. orkneylad says:

    BJ – Please quote me in a copy/paste where I’ve written ANY personal opinion of my own on the 9/11 matter.

    Your inability to do so is the ‘gaping hole of denial’ you’ve dug for yourself.

  333. bjedwards says:

    Edward, going off the deep end, wrote for all to see:

    “He has been part of a crew of lying manipulators who have taken millions in government funding, YES MILLIONS EVEN BILLIONS!!”

    What did he do with the money? What, you don’t know???

    Yes, of course, another fab strawman, from Edward, one classic denier who’s really lost it. The fact that scientists from every field apply (and have for decades) for government funding on the basis of justifying the purpose, use, and expectations before they even get any funding completely escapes Edward’s empty brain.

    Perhaps Edward would like to check out the funding of all the climate scientists who disagree with AGW? Did they apply for government grants? Did they get them? Did they take them? Were they rejected? Did they continue to receive grants even after their papers disagreed with the consensus? How about Richard Lindzen, for example?

    And then, what about funding from non-government sources? How about your favorite anti-climate scientists like Pat Michaels? Where does he get his funding, Edward? Or the fake-Lord, Bubba Monckton?

    The completely bamboozled Edward cannot think past his nose. The stupid it burns.

  334. manonthemoor says:

    August 2, 2010 at 1:58 am

    Excellent link —- Bob Carter explains chapter and verse how the AGW fanatics close ranks, manipulate and cheat in their attempt to control of hearts and minds.

    Since climategate and the internet blogs, that mould has been broken, or at least severely dented as Joe Public recognises the scam being perpetuated. Every Day more evidence and scientific papers demonstrate the gross deceit being perpetrated, by politicians, suits and sections of science.

    The stakes are high and every day more pressure may be applied to propagate the AGW lie, despite this pressure they continue to lose the argument because the logic of AGW is flawed and unsupported by evidence except by a crazy stupid simulator.

  335. CriticalThinker says:

    orkneylad says:
    August 2, 2010 at 1:58 am

    Sadly, an all too familiar story.

    The MO is straight from the AGW comrades’ propaganda tool-kit.
    The old “FALSE balance” argument is applied to block dissenting voices, in this case Prof Bob Carter.

    This is Bob in action, demolishing the AGW scam – with facts –

  336. Amerloque says:

    Poor fella.

    “Don’t forget to mention that all manner of deniers are the only ones to hate me.”

    Not hate.


  337. bjedwards says:

    Orkneylad wrote, forgetting he was on a bing last night:

    “BJ – Please quote me in a copy/paste where I’ve written ANY personal opinion of my own on the 9/11 matter.”


    “BJ is so stupid, he believes that Arabs can sneak onto airliners and get killed and NOT show up on the OFFICIAL CORONER’S report.”

    Denial is denial is denial.

    Now, explain WHY you should be against the overwhelming peer-reviewed science demonstrating that AGW is real.

    Cat still got your tongue?

  338. bjedwards says:

    manothemoor, puffed up with denial, wrote:

    “Excellent link —- Bob Carter explains chapter and verse how the AGW fanatics close ranks, manipulate and cheat in their attempt to control of hearts and minds.”

    The vast scientific conspiracy is hiding under your bed, ready to eat you at a moment’s notice.

    The stupid it burns.

  339. Amerloque says:

    “In a serious struggle there is no worse cruelty than to be magnanimous at an inopportune time.”

    Leon Trotsky

  340. CriticalThinker says:


    Oh my – “overwhelming” and it’s in italics excuse me while I go crap myself.

  341. manonthemoor says:

    August 2, 2010 at 3:02 am

    Have you read the Bob Carter link, how can you doubt the sincerity, the detail and the frustration demonstrated by Bob in the face of these bigoted extremists, who seek continue to maintain this AGW scam in the face of common sense.

  342. orkneylad says:

    BJ – LMFAO

    Here’s what I wrote:
    [orkneylad 8:10 am]
    “some gems follow from your -seemingly- dormant blog”

    I’m quoting comments on YOUR OWN blog…….did I state my own position at any time?


    You are beyond contempt.

  343. NoIdea says:

    Bjedwards showed everyone that was looking, that it really is on a different planet, also confirming its inability to comprehend anything with more than a few sentences. Attempting (badly) to put words in to the mouths over others (a favorite tack!) and even using italics to highlight its own raving bleating.
    BJ, Well you just love to repeatedly expose yourself in the strangest and most obvious ways don’t you, or is your repeated denial that anyone has engaged in the subject at hand just a sign that there is something seriously wrong with you?
    All you end up doing is cutting and pasting claims from your climate science charlatans!
    Yes I copy pasted this from you, after you had yet again demonstrated your plagiaristic tendencies.
    I will repeat the ode where I first accused you of being a copy paste wanker.

    Copy paste copy paste
    Time to waste
    Denial denier
    Your pants are on fire
    And you are a liar

    Is this short enough for you?


  344. Amerloque says:

    Hi manonthemoor !

    “Freedom of the press is guaranteed only to those who own one.”

    — Abbott Joseph Liebling


  345. Amerloque says:

    /// Madrid cuts subsidies for solar power plants

    By Victor Mallet in Madrid
    Published: August 1 2010 18:23 | Last updated: August 1 2010 18:23

    Spain will cut the subsidised electricity prices paid to new photovoltaic solar power plants by up to 45 per cent, the industry ministry has announced, in a move designed to increase efficiency and cut government spending at a time of austerity.

    With the help of generous state subsidies and electricity prices as much as 10 times the rate paid for conventionally generated power, Spain has become one of Europe’s leading producers and consumers of alternative energy, but the policy has contributed to an €18bn ($23bn, £15bn) accumulated deficit that hangs over the electricity sector. …/… ///

    Financial Times (registration required)

  346. Amanda says:

    Blackswan: I’ve uploaded a short vid for your entertainment — only I’m not in it, talking, singing, or otherwise making a spectacle of myself. I’ve left the floor to someone else, and she performs!

    P. S. My voice is slightly wobbly here and there, mainly because I managed to back into hard objects a couple of times: I never said ‘oof’ but I could have done! Also you will note the colouring at the end, and how awful it makes everything look — but that’s fluorescent light for you. (Just a reminder: it’s a hotel.)

  347. Amanda says:

    Well actually I DO talk, through the whole thing in fact — but I never mention ladybirds once!

  348. Edward. says:

    Bostonian Bear says:
    August 2, 2010 at 2:37 am

    Love it!


  349. Edward. says:


    Interesting piece on increasing wind power generation in the Pacifice North West, USA.

    “It does not seem wise to force Oregonians to purchase an energy source that has so many associated costs. At best, wind power simply replaces a clean reliable and affordable energy source of power: hydroelectricity. At worst, it invites increased price volatility and the prospect of more greenhouse gas emitting facilities.”


  350. Edward. says:

    The Hockey Schtick: The 97% “Consensus” is only 76 Self-Selected Climatologists

    What about pier review in the IPCC?…… an even smaller percentage, there was Jonesy and Mickey Mann and Jimbo and Pachauri…..who probably consulted the greatest ever climatologist, big Alberto Goracle…..and here’s the Rub!….man what he doesn’t know about GW…………………………………………………….. is probably worth knowing.


  351. manonthemoor says:

    Interesting article about wind turbine noise

    Can I add my four penneth to this — Low frequency resonance.

    I suspect that random rotating machines may generate very low frequency resonances, transmitted through the ground, I remember reports that the Russians did experiments with this as a war weapon perhaps 40 odd years ago.

    I have no proof of this problem but perhaps we have others here who can comment.

  352. Edward. says:

    This is priceless, Kellie Tranter, numb from the neck up and obviously on a proscribed substance but who, just who does it/she remind you of????

    Read this, it is delicious:


  353. Locusts says:


    When it comes to BJe, you are wasting your breath:

  354. CriticalThinker says:


    The off-shore machines sit on piles driven into the sea-bed by hydraulic hammers.
    I read somewhere that impulses from the turbine blades were causing the piles to subside. What a pity.

  355. manonthemoor says:

    August 2, 2010 at 5:23 am

    My only experience was two pneumatic drills, roadworks for 3 days, around 30 metres from my house, sleep was impossible not because of the noise but the vibrations. I had to move out to my friends to escape. Totally debilitating.

  356. CriticalThinker says:


    It’s a bit like the Turing Test for artificial intelligence, sooner or later you get a response that reveals the lack of real intellect at work – except with the BJe thing it’s apparent from the start.

  357. manonthemoor says:

    August 2, 2010 at 5:23 am

    Brings a whole new perspective to ’tilting at windmills’ ……..LOL

  358. fenbeagle says:

    Man on the Moor

    ….’The evidence on low frequency noise is sufficiently strong to warrant immediate concern’ …..(Low frequency and its effects by Dr Geoff Leventhrall)…(Wind Turbines not investigated in the report)

    ‘There is clear evidence that wind turbines generate low frequency sound (infrasound) and acoustic signals’
    (microseismic and infrasound monitering of low frequency noise and vibrations from windfarms 2005) Styles et al.

    Industrial Wind Turbines, Infrasound and Vibro_Acoustic Disease (VAD)
    mAY 31 2007…School of health Sciences Portugal/Dept. of Env. Sciences and Engineering Lisbon Portugal
    ….Excesive exposure to infrasound and low frequency noise…..Can cause Vibro acoustic disease (VAD)
    ……..Over the past three years, several families have contacted this team complaining of noise caused by the proximity to Industrial wind turbines…..windmill produced acoustic environments…IFLN rich environments that are known to be conductive to VAD.
    ….The level of IFLN inside the windmill surrounded home are LARGER than those obtained in the home contaminated by the port grain terminal.
    ….These results irrefutably demonstrate that wind turbines in the proximity of residential areas produce acoustical environments that can lead to the development of VAD in nearby home dwellers.

  359. fenbeagle says:

    Wind Turbine Acoustic Noise (a white paper)
    Renewable Energy research Laboritory Dept. of Mechanical and Industrial Engineering University of Massachusetts…..

    June 2002 (Amended January 2006)
    ‘Sound from Wind Turbines’
    Low Frequency

    Low Frequency….Sound with frequencies in the range of 20 to 100 Hz is mostly associated with downwind rotors. It is caused when the turbine blade encounters localized flow deficiencies due to the flow around the tower.

  360. fenbeagle says:

    Noise-Con 2008 Kamperman and James

    ‘Simple guidelines for siting wind turbines to prevent health risks’

    …..The assumptions about wall and window attenuation being 15dBA or more may not be sufficiently protective considering the relatively high amplitude of the wind turbines low frequency immission spectra.

  361. fenbeagle says:

    Noise radiation from wind turbines installed near homes ‘effects on health’
    Barbara J Frey BA MA and Peter J Hadden BSc FRICS

    February 2007

    ….Summary of the measurement of low frequency noise….it may be appropriate to re visit the issue of aerodynamic modulation and a means by which it should be assessed.
    ….The sounds being emitted by the blades being low frequency….constitute a permanent risk to the people exposed to them

  362. CriticalThinker says:

    “Dead birds: oil bad, wind good?”

    “With the increased capacity over the last seven years, we now estimate that 100,000 – 300,000 birds are killed by wind turbines each year”

  363. fenbeagle says:

    Wind Turbine Noise sleep and Health
    Dr Chris Hanning
    Emeritus Consultant in Sleep Medicine University Hospitals of Leicester
    How is Wind Turbine noise harmful?
    Sleep Disturbance……Wind Turbine Syndrome
    Low Frequency Noise
    Vibro acoustic Disease

    only beaten by…..A railway shunting yard

    Industry admits turbines audible 10-15dB BELOW background

  364. manonthemoor says:

    fenbeagle says:
    August 2, 2010 at 6:56 am

    Thanks Fen seems like I hit a tender windmill spot.

    Had visions of vibrating and tilting windmills all across he land with Huhne shaking in his boots.

    Over to you

  365. fenbeagle says:

    I have something on my board at the moment (but it isn’t Huhne)

  366. manonthemoor says:

    Just too many targets Fen

    Look forward to your excellent ideas and skill

    Thank you rgds

  367. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    G’day All,

    Doing a catch-up, found your video. A very nicely behaved dog, looks to be only young.
    Still in the hotel? Shame there’s no luck on the reasonable landlord front.
    All the best to you and Mr A in finding the right place.

  368. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Boston Bear,
    Good to see you back.
    Have you actually moved to Bahston or just visiting?
    I must have missed a whole bunch of your posts a while back as I’m not really sure what all the rest is about.


  369. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Orkneylad @ 1.58am

    “Closing out dissent by Bob Carter
    August 1, 2010

    The phenomena of disinvitation and the brotherhood of silence”.

    Thanks OL – I hope you don’t mind me re-posting your stuff.
    It was SO spot-on, epitomising EXACTLY how stitched-up this country is when it comes to CAGW.

    NO dissenting opinion will be tolerated anywhere.

    ALL parties have accepted AGW, they just differ on how it should be dealt with. They ALL involve taxpayer funding.

    Prof Bob Carter should be made Australian of the Year and given a medal.

  370. Amanda says:

    Thanks for all that, Blackswan.

    Got a place to rent already: not our first choice, since most landlords in Florida won’t rent to dog-owners. (High demand, so they can be choosy.) Boxers in particular are on a ‘do not rent to’ list — for digging. Well for heaven’s sake. I think my dog dug once in the garden as a puppy. This place that turned us down doesn’t even have a garden! As for furnishings, we’re providing all our own so I don’t see the worry there, either. What do they think she’s going to do: bring the ceiling plaster down???

  371. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    I’m sure that from your perspective landlords are being a pain in the neck.
    However, here in Oz we’ve had a spate of news stories about tenants trashing rental properties, their kids and/or dogs and cats being a major problem.

    It’s a real good incentive to have your own house, and please yourself.

  372. Amanda says:

    Blackswan: well, there are tenants and there are tenants. We want a year of flexibility in case we can relocate to a more desirable situation a bit south. We’ve owed two homes over the past decade, in sought-after neighbourhoods as the saying is — the last one paid for outright — and our credit ratings are stellar. In fact we’re ideal tenants. We’re thoroughly trustworthy homeowners in a gap year. I imagine we’re not alone in that.

  373. Amanda says:

    Always a typo. I meant ‘owned’ of course, not ‘owed’. And while I’m at it, I’ll add that we are gardeners with flair, and the estate agent who showed us the house we’ll be renting looked at the back yard of grass and said, ‘if you want to make this into a garden, go ahead’.

  374. An article brought to you by the same magazine that says the sun can not affect climate…

  375. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Hi Crown,

    These fools are truly staggering. The temerity of maintaining their phony theories while at the same time contradicting themselves, and all done with a straight face (so to speak).

    Good story Crown.

  376. Blackswan the Newscientist for a long would only print pro AGW stories since the UEA climategate story broke they have been about 60% pro 40% anti in there output, I think they positioning themselves not to look bad when it finally unravels. Otherwise your entire credibility as a science magazine could be ruined for a long time.

  377. Amerloque says:

    Hello Everyone !

    The warmofascists are gearing up for Cancun … the Los Angeles Times reports this morning (August 2):

    George Shultz challenges California to lead

    Voters should defeat Proposition 23 and fight global warming, the former secretary of State says.

    George Skelton
    Capitol Journal
    August 2, 2010

    Reporting from Sacramento

    Former U.S. secretary of State George P. Shultz believes it’s crucial to fight global warming to protect national security.

    Global warming is created by burning fossil fuel, he says, and payments for foreign oil sometimes wind up financing terrorism.

    And Shultz, who’s also a former Treasury secretary, thinks the nation suffers an “economic vulnerability” because of its oil addiction.


    Moreover, continues the man who set up the Environmental Protection Agency four decades ago, “There’s a climate problem connected with the burning of fossil fuels…. The basic facts are pretty clear.”


    He’s now with the Hoover Institution at Stanford University.

    And he’s co-chairman of the campaign against Proposition 23 on the November ballot.

    Prop. 23, largely bankrolled by two Texas oil companies ( Valero and Tesoro) that operate refineries in California, would significantly hamper this state’s efforts to reduce greenhouse gas emissions.

    The goal is to pare back emissions to the 1990 level by 2020 — a cut of about 30% from what would be emitted if the state did nothing.

    Prop. 23 would suspend AB 32 — the 2006 anti-global warming act championed by Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger — until the unemployment rate in California fell to at least 5.5% for a full year.

    Unemployment now exceeds 12%.

    The act probably would be suspended for “many years,” says the nonpartisan legislative analyst.

    Prop. 23 advocates contend that with the economy struggling to recover, it’s no time to experiment with feel-good global warming fights. It would drive up energy costs, spur a business migration out of state and kill jobs, they argue.

    “No other state in the union imposes these kinds of regulatory framework,” says Jon Coupal, president of the Howard Jarvis Taxpayers Assn., referring generally to the state’s extensive thicket of business regulations. “They are, quite frankly, deterring business development in California and driving out a significant portion.”


    But California can’t combat global warming by itself — can’t even make a dent. It’s a worldwide issue, a point the Prop. 23 backers repeatedly make.

    “For California to go it alone is suicide,” says Assemblyman Dan Logue (R- Marysville), the ballot measure’s original sponsor. “The economy of California will never recover.”

    AB 32 “will have virtually no impact on global warming,” asserts Jack Stewart, president of the California Manufacturers and Technology Assn. “Why do you want to jeopardize California’s economy for virtually no impact?”


    (Shultz continues)

    “People are saying, well, [AB 32] is a job killer. Undoubtedly there will be changes. That’s the idea — to shift away from things that emphasize their dependence on oil….

    “Sooner or later, somehow or other, there’s going to be a price put on carbon. So everybody running companies … take a deep breath … better start adjusting to it.

    “We’re going to make energy created by the burning of fossil fuels more expensive. That’s the idea. So people will use less of it. …/… ///

  378. Amerloque says:

    California Jobs Initiative

    Vote YES on California Proposition 23

    The fight for our jobs is on!

    We must pass Prop. 23 or economists say AB 23 will:

    Cost California up to 1.1 million jobs

    Cost the average family $3,857 a year in greatly increased expenses for housing, transportation, food and energy

    Cost $49,691 per small business

    Result in a total loss of output of $182.649 billion

    Devastate budgets of California social services agencies through massive losses in tax revenue

    Put government in charge of previously individual decisions

    Proposition 23 website at:

  379. Amerloque says:

    Typo !

    That should be:

    “We must pass Prop. 23 or economists say AB 32 will:”

    Sorry !

  380. orkneylad says:

    Crown – Is this a tentative ‘pawn move’ in the NewScientist’s U-turn towards realism?
    Fingers crossed……

  381. NoIdea says:

    BJ is so stupid, it doesn’t spot the obvious.
    BJ is so stupid, it cannot use verse.
    BJ is so stupid, it uses the same, tired, “Cat still got your tongue” crap repeatedly.
    BJ is so stupid, it often starts with “writing for all to see”
    BJ is so stupid, it is overwhelmed by pee-reviewed propaganda showing nothing at all.
    BJ is so stupid it thinks I am paid by big oil
    BJ is so stupid, The stupid it burns.
    The stupid it burns. And nothing it learns.
    BJ is so stupid, it cannot read long posts.
    BJ is so stupid, much worse than most.

    Low frequency sounds have been researched as weaponry for many years, according to the legends. The Russians had a 6 foot whistle that could drill through solid concrete.
    The French connection has been documented at
    Being some one of a skeptical nature and having some experience in the engineering of sounds I have tried generating all of the so called “dangerous” sounds at low volume, so far I have not suffered the dire effects of “brown” noise, the death dealing effects of the French frequencies or any of the other “effects” that are reported at various frequencies.
    However, as we are dealing with sounds of silence, it is not always possible to know if in fact I have even managed to produce the frequencies that I have tried to generate. With no specialized laboratory equipment it is perhaps impossible to investigate the un-hearable.
    From the site linked above…

    They could not pursue the “search” for long time periods. During the very course of tracking the sound down, an accidental direct exposure rendered them all extremely ill for hours. When finally measured, it was found that a low intensity pitch of a fundamental 7 cycles per second was being produced. Furthermore, this infrasonic pitch was not one of great intensity either. It became obvious that the slow vibrating motor was activating an infrasonic resonant mode in the large concrete duct. Operating as the vibrating “tongue” of an immense “organ pipe”, the rattling motor produced nauseating infrasound. Coupled with the rest of the concrete building, a cavernous industrial enclosure, the vibrating air column formed a bizarre infrasonic “amplifier.
    The main resonant frequency of these pipes occurred in the “range of death”, found to lie between three and seven cycles per second. These sounds could not be humanly heard, a distinct advantage for a defense system. The effects were felt however. The symptoms come on rapidly and unexpectedly, though the pipes were operating for a few seconds. Their pressure waves impacted against the entire body in a terrible and inescapable grip. The grip was a pressure which came in on one from all sides simultaneously, an envelope of death.”

    Are the sounds of silence by Simon and Garfunkel a warning?

    The Hawkwind track Sonic attack most definitely and defiantly is…

    From the comments on YouTube we can find another of the legends…
    “The words in this piece were taken from those written by Psychiatrist Dr. Charles Follen McKim Maloney. Maloney was commisioned by the British government to write them as a warning to the general public when scientists looking into the feasability of sonic attack became convinced that the USSR had a deployable sonic weapon and were going to use it in an attack on he UK. To date the only sonic weapon known to man was invented by Maloney, it is based on the mating call of an alpha male baboon!”

    Well, just for the benefit of BJE I deny that low power sonic weapons are real. I do not deny that highly amplified or “loud” sounds can damage people or property regardless of frequency.

    Is there any chance that a giant hollow tower with whirling blades of immense proportion could possibly generate loud noises?

    How will BJE cope with this new denial of reality by me?
    Will it insist that it has a cosmic sonic cannon?
    Or will it just be pleased to see me?


  382. Ozboy says:

    G’day folks,

    New brief post here to continue the debate a bit more easily. Sorry I’m taking so long on the next full post, but as I hope you’ll appreciate I’m juggling a lot of balls right now.


  383. bjedwards says:

    Orkeneylad, science denier admitted for all to see:

    “I’m quoting comments on YOUR OWN blog…….did I state my own position at any time?”

    Yup. Comments by 9/11 Deniers you indeed quoted. Must be a special place in your heart for fellow deniers who go after me, eh, Orkey?

    You soiled your diaper once again, laddy, and once again you FAILED to tell us why you are against the overwhelming peer-reviewed science demonstrating that AGW is real.

    Of course you all have to run away. You don’t have an explanation.


  384. bjedwards says:

    NoIdea, chasing more red herrings, wrote for all to see:

    “How will BJE cope with this new denial of reality by me?”

    I’ll just repeat the question you refuse to answer: WHY are you against the overwhelming peer-reviewed sceince demonstrating anthropogenic global warming is real?

    Now, we all get to watch you dissemble again.

    Gosh, what a loon you are.

  385. NoIdea says:

    Bjedwards in his familiar lame lack of style wrote for none to see:

    “Now, we all get to watch you dissemble again.”

    Oh deary deary me, you are a sad one in such denial. You cannot read long posts I now accept this fact. Despite the many thousands of words I have written here you cannot see them. I had best keep this short or it will escape your attention span…again.
    Quote “WHY are you against the overwhelming peer-reviewed sceince demonstrating anthropogenic global warming is real?”
    The pee-reviewed sceince [sic] is not that overwhelming, I am sorry that you find it so.
    Golly gosh what a repeater you are.
    IF you manage to work out why this thread has gone quiet, I will of course continue to watch you make yourself look very silly.
    I am glad you think me a loon, it confirms my sanity.
    Whoops have I gone past your threshold for being able to read?
    Will you ever come up with anything interesting to say?
    IF I deny you are a very small penis what does that make you?


  386. bjedwards says:

    NoIdea, truly on drugs, wrote:

    “The pee [sic]-reviewed sceince [sic] is not that overwhelming, I am sorry that you find it so.”

    And therein is why you are a denier, a shameful denier. There is no way around the FACT that the overwhelming peer-reviewed science affirms anthropogenic global warming is real. None. Zero. Nada.

    Pretending that it is not overwhelming and accepted as such by the vast majority of climate scientists marks all deniers like you as dishonest at best.

    And you have absolutely no scientific reason to be against that overwhelming science yet here you are making a fool of yourself.

    Why? What could you possibly gain by opposing the science, NoIdea?

  387. NoIdea says:


    Most people in the modern world have lifestyles that prevent them from acquiring the levels of vitamin D that evolution intended us to have. The sun’s ultraviolet-B rays absorbed through the skin are the body’s main source of this nutrient. I suggest you get out more and start taking your medications. Please stop it with these sad cries for help, no one can hear you.
    Go read my posts and stop watching television.

    I am more than happy to engage you in any scientific debate to the best of my abilities.
    You on the other hand do nothing but whine about deniers with no clue as to what it is that you are accusing folks of denying. Pathetic, do you think no one else notices?


  388. bjedwards says:

    NoIdea, you demonstrate that you are completely unable to articulate why you are against the overwhelming peer reviewed science affirming that AGW is real.

    “The truth about global warming”

    Monday, August 2, 2010

    “IN A DEPRESSING case of irony by juxtaposition, the death of climate change legislation in the Senate has been followed by the appearance of two government reports in the past week that underscore the overwhelming scientific case for global warming — and go out of the way to repudiate skeptics.

    “First came a report on global climate from the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, which confirmed that the 2000s were by far the warmest decade in the instrumental record — as were, in their turns, the 1980s and the 1990s. Unlike year-to-year fluctuations, these 10-year shifts are statistically significant. Further, the report notes that it derived its conclusions from an array of data sources — not just the land-surface readings that doubters challenge — from ocean heat uptake to melting land ice to sea level rise.

    “If the land surface records were systematically flawed and the globe had not really warmed, then it would be almost impossible to explain the concurrent changes in this wide range of indicators produced by many independent groups,” the report said. “The warming of the climate system is unequivocal.” The gases most likely responsible for that warming, such as carbon dioxide, continue to accumulate.

    “Second was a strongly worded response from the Environmental Protection Agency to petitions that it revoke its finding that “climate change is real, is occurring due to emissions of greenhouse gases from human activities and threatens human health and environment.” As with much climate-change skepticism, the petitions were based “on selectively edited, out-of-context data and a manufactured controversy,” EPA Administrator Lisa P. Jackson said. Among other things, the agency reviewed every document from the “Climategate” e-mail hack at a respected British climate research unit. The EPA found what four other independent studies did: that the e-mails contained some “candid” language but nothing that seriously discredits the scientific consensus on global warming.

    “Perhaps it is still too much to hope that Virginia Attorney General Ken Cuccinelli II will call off his misguided investigation of climate scientist Michael Mann, which seems to be based on the e-mail affair. Many climate-change skeptics will simply dismiss these reports as more evidence of a sprawling conspiracy instead of what they really are: yet more affirmation of the risks humanity runs if it continues to pump carbon into the atmosphere. ”

  389. NoIdea says:

    Bjedwards, you demonstrate that you are completely unable to move on to the next thread. Why you are against the concept that we have moved on?

    Pathetic cut and paster, pastes for none to see…MOVE ALONG NOW, NEXT THREAD IS CURRENT!

    You can keep pasting your government reports and believe all that the Politian’s tell you, I understand that you are a victim.

    A quote from Lord Bertrand Russell
    ““Scientific societies are as yet in their infancy. . . It is to be expected that advances in physiology and psychology will give governments much more control over individual mentality than they now have even in totalitarian countries. Diet, injections, and injunctions will combine, from a very early age, to produce the sort of character and the sort of beliefs that the authorities consider desirable, and any serious criticism of the powers that be will become psychologically impossible.” – The Impact of Science on Society, 1953”

    Are you stuck with a psychologically impossible viewpoint of reality?


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