The Time To Let Up?

G’day everyone, and thanks for keeping LibertyGibbert humming away while I’ve been out on the road.

I note the rather triumphalist tone in James Delingpole’s latest post in the UK Daily Telegraph; I’m not so sure I agree with it. James appears to have seized upon his perennial eyewear rival and emotional basket case Georges Monbiot’s latest hissy fit, funk, black dog, or whatever it was, in despairing of any agreement between governments at the upcoming Mexico conference this year, and compared it to the surrender of the Wehrmacht in 1945. I can understand James’s glee, but would like today to sound a note of caution.

This damned thing won’t die. And the thing is bigger than its current incarnation of CAGW. The science debate is over: no-one who counts believes it any more (if they ever did), even its loudest champions—in fact, evidence points to our planet being on the brink of potentially catastrophic heliogenic cooling, comparable to the Little Ice Age.

Even if the talks at Cancún fail as expected, we cannot afford to wallow in self-congratulation, dust off our hands and walk into the sunset. No, what we have to do is make an example of those who have tried so long, and almost succeeded, in pulling off this whole scam. Those behind it need to have a very, very bright light shone upon them, their associations and their sources of funding. We need to do this so that next time the zombie raises itself to life, it will be different. Next time, the world will not have forgotten so soon.

It’s happening already; the Monbiots of this world and the shadowy organisations that travel with them are repositioning the debate as we speak: Anthropogenic Ocean Acidification is the most likely candidate for a new host body, but they have learned from all this as well. They’re not stupid, and will doubtless have fallback positions in future.

Their goal is not scientific discovery; in fact, to make their case appear plausible, the entire scientific method needed to be re-defined. Their aim is collectivism, with an enlightened elite who know what’s best for us guiding us with an iron fist, encased in a benevolent-looking velvet glove. And all the while being justly compensated for their services, of course.

It is far too soon to declare the debate over. As notre bon ami Amerloque continually exhorts us, Now is not the time to let up!

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189 Responses to The Time To Let Up?

  1. manonthemoor says:

    Very well said Oz, welcome back

    Amerloque has the right of it ‘NOW IS NOT THE TIME TO LET UP’

    Too many people will have both their pride and their pockets hurting before the AGW scam is killed off.

    Without doubt we and the bloggers on the internet are WINNING and the science is ‘toast’

    The politicians and the money suits will take yet more time to realise their AGW cause is lost.

    Hopefully Huhne will have his ministry combined with the treasury as a starting point to killing off pointless carbon capture experiments, followed by a bad conference in China (Early October).

    Germany, Scandinavia and France have all woken up to the problems of renewables plus the Tea Party in USA is helping the AGW scam there.

    Slowly the bricks are being pulled out of the dam and this is being weakened a little bit more each day, but the dam has to collapse carrying away all the carbon trading and politicians with it. The lies, the greed and the political objectives need to be totally discredited once and for all.

    So far the opposition in favour of AGW have been unable to counter the ‘internet effect’ and this may be our weakest point, but short of shutting the internet down hopefully it is too late for an effective counter attack.

    The manipulation of the DT and DISCUS has back fired, thanks largely to the Ozboy efforts, and since JD holiday, the JD/DT seems to have taken on a new life with many new posters who have managed to work with DISCUS although many good posts are too easily lost. All credit to RR, Crown, Amanda, mack Fen and even msher plus others as well, who have stuck with it and maintained the high JD/DT profile against AGW.

    I suspect yet another six months as a minimum of concerted effort against AGW will be required, before the dam breaks, failure at Cancun, Obama hit bad at the mid term elections and possibly the collapse of the publishing of IPCC -AR5 will all have to happen before we can relax.
    Meanwhile the weather in the UK, Continent and USA this winter may come to our aid and further weaken the AGW case which is based on stupid, thick simulators.

    WE WILL WIN
    WE MUST WIN
    THE TRUTH WILL OUT

    manonthemoor

  2. Walt O'Bruin says:

    The biggest elephant in the room is the massive middle-class investment exposure in environmentally responsible pension portfolios, which in turn are the money trees from which fruit are plucked for growing wind farms, if you can tolerate the ecobioenviropigfart syntax of using green terminology in reference to this colossal fraudathon which makes the South Sea Bubble look like a church bazaar’s card table shell game.

    No one knows quite what to do about that aspect of the greentard movement, so it looks like the standard strategy of doing the “deer in the headlamps of the oncoming lorry” freeze is the international order of the day.

    What IS odd is how the upstate NY conglomeration of wind farm projects (of which there are around 30 in the 100-500 MWe range, PLUS an offshore Lake Ontario project PLUS an offshore Far Rockaway/Long Island project of around 300 MWe each nameplate rating) have NOT gone forward to plan. They are like underground carbon sequestration: everyone seems to have a project underway, and not one of them are truly “online” yet, but at best are in trials, experimental mode, or just plain sitting there, equipment covered in plastic in the rain and shortly snow while the tekkies and politicians try to sort out what to do.

    If you like, I can post NYISO’s wind farm operators’ manual to give you an idea of the gauntlet of perfectly fair steel maces and flails the wind farm jockeys are going to have to negotiate once they come online. The New York Independent Systems Operator is really going to call their bluffs on the nameplate ratings and aggregation and the entire megillah of issues I pointed out were deal-killers for wind farms. Please recall it was NYISO which killed off the megaracketeering ploy the JCSP attempted in forcing through with Obama help a national 20% wind programme regardless of the engineering realities.

    As these wind farms are paid for out of these pension funds, though 30% of their budgets were de facto construction grants from the Feds, then were are looking at a 2012-2015 foldup of the entire wind wheeze. What is saving the developers right now is there is not enough transmission wire strung to accommodate the power generation potential, as wind facilities are by necessity located out where there were not poles and towers and wire prior to their coming into existence.

  3. Walt O'Bruin says:

    Well, what the heck, here the doc’s are for anyone who wants to see just how silly non-load following, non-dispatchable power generators like solar and wind are from a practical standpoint, and how grown adults with responsibility for running an electric grid are having their time wasted and public monies exhausted during a Depression to build pink candy floss castles in the sky:

    This doc describes the potential impact of non-load following power sources, in this case wind, on grid stability:

    http://www.nyiso.com/public/webdocs/services/planning/special_studies/wind_integration_report.pdf

    This much blunter report describes how power sources which cannot predict reliably when and how much power will be available undermine dispatchable load-following generators’ finances (gas turbine, reciprocating and coal plants) terminally if not grossly compensated for the additional staff , fuel and maintenance budgets they will have to commit just to keep the renewables in-phase, in-voltage, and their gennies coils energized, if they are induction units, never mind providing aggregation “backup” power.

    http://www.nyiso.com/public/webdocs/committees/bic_mswg/meeting_materials/2005-10-20/younger_Generation_Issues_mswg_05_10_20.pdf

    Finally, here is the core document for data tracking and reporting for wind plant operators which at least imposes penalties for wind farms not delivering power when they say they will, which to me means wind farms will need telepathic turban’d (cooldn’t resist the double entendre, sorry) operating staff to predict when the wind will blow (and in practice will mean wind operators will simply be buying gas turbine generated power hand over fist for resale to meet their contractual commitments and to be able to say “What a good boy am I” to their investors, even though GT’s are providing the power at a significant expense if not loss to the wind farm operation overall).

    http://www.nyiso.com/public/webdocs/documents/guides/Wind_Plant_Operator_Data_Guide_2010.pdf

    Denmark and Germany have already sorted this bit out, and I look to the UK to sort it out next once Huhne is booted out and the books at Ofgem can be looked at by SFO. Canada is hip to this too. Not a lot of new wind going in there either since Harper killed mandatory national carbon anything, even though and except for British Columbia, which has opted like California for economic suicide and has its own mandatory programme of carbon taxes.

  4. Walt O'Bruin says:

    About the time the investment firms and insurance companies sort out the damages to their pension clients’ finances are being done by these “opportunities in alternative energy for saving the planet,” that is when all this horse patootie is going to be shoveled into the dumpster of history along with mesmerism, eugenics, and animal magnetism where it belongs.

  5. Walt O'Bruin says:

    which are being done. D’Oh!

  6. Walt O'Bruin says:

    First time I have taken a look at Moonbat. His mouth is so big he could do the three pool ball trick on the cover of “Exile on Main Street.”

  7. Walt O'Bruin says:

    With any luck at all, a month or two from now we’ll be watching a Moonbat video with him doing the Mark Saunders bit on his Facebook page. No fear.

    Personally, I think the Met should have used either grenades or a flamethrower or both instead of shooters, if they were going to make a movie of it.

  8. Amanda says:

    Walt O’Bear:

    ‘fraudathon’: I like it. Well, not the fraud, your phrase of course.

  9. Amanda says:

    Walt, you change your name as often (if not oftener) than I change my Disqus avatar. Today it’s Sunrise In The Serengeti. Tomorrow it may be a plate of pasta. By the way, may I ask where you were born?

  10. Hi, Amanda. I shot forth into the oby-gyn’s hockey goalie mitt in Port Huron, Michigan, USA.

  11. I was born in the same hospital where my grandfather and namesake and his dying wife were turned away from in 1929 because they were Roman Catholic “sh*thouse micks,” even though Granddad had the cash in hand.

  12. The reason why I never bore the Crown any resentment is the least British do is confront their problems head on, even if it means dead bodies everywhere lOl. Eventually something gets done. We cutesify our issues or pretend they don’t exist or ignore them if the social problems don’t translate into movie rights and song performance residuals.

    Also, it was always in the back of my mind that somehow we could convince the Crown to bombard Port Huron from the Canadian side, preferably Wellington or Lanc night raids. There’s still time to do so! The CF-18 is really a pretty hot aerial weapons platform.

    My dad’s older brother worked on the Blue Water Bridge connecting Canada and the USA there shlepping hot rivets to the riveters in a tin can with no net below him. It was and is a 150-200 foot drop to the water at the apex of the bridge’s arch. I think he was 13 or 14 at the time.

    G’day, O Great Oracle Bear Of Many Names. Answer me if you will, why does Disqus swallow half my comments at DT? I’m most polite there and don’t include any untoward links – Oz

  13. Nerves, mostly. Doing too much at once. Again LOL

  14. Locusts says:

    Nice picture of a windmill here:
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/picturegalleries/8018761/Britain-from-the-Air-an-exhibition-of-aerial-photographs-in-Bath.html?image=16

    It is located in an area created in response to fuel scarcity, peak wood.

  15. Walt O'Bruin says:

    Nice one, Locusts.

    I bring up the bridge bit, as if you spend any time at all in the States, you’ll notice most of the cast steel and iron bridges large and small were built during the Depression, but for the superhighway related ones.

    That’s what Presidents lined up for out of work people to do then. Not bailing out banks and telling the people to get bent, essentially. When people add up 2 plus 2 this next election, such desiderata may very well be part of the big picture, methinks.

    Surprised folks haven’t gone a mite berserk already. Any leftie sez Yanks are warlike monsters out to destroy the world needs to consider with what passivity we view our general present calamity. Wonder if mailing the head of a politician or two to the White House postage collect with a little note saying “Hi! We need jobs, please!” might do the trick. I don’t think that sort of response to the situation is on anyone’s list of to-do thingies any time soon here.

  16. Locusts says:

    Oz, maybe your link to this site is seen as a recurring comment, or spam?

    Nah, the Cap’n’s been doing it for ages. In fact, the deleted comment that sparked my question to Walt wasn’t linked here anyway. And since then, it’s been re-instated. Go figure – Oz

  17. Amerloque says:

    Hello !

    Excellent post, Oz ! (grin)

    Powerful corrective forces such as scorn and ostracism should never be ruled out. (grin)

    Here are ten phrases that are designed to be inspirational. One can mix ‘n’ match.

    “dangerously ill-informed zealots of greeniac thermageddon psychobabble”

    “intellectually-challenged counter-factual engineering-free warmistas”

    “paranoid fringe lunatic ecofascist thermomaniacs”

    “fruitcake leafy-twiggy environut cultists”

    “verminous muckspreading climategate extortionists”

    “powergrabbing reasoning-free greentard cretins”

    “malevolent controlfreak envirowacko
    Orwellian doomsters”

    “discredited data-fudging ponzi-promoting climate criminals”

    “glassy-eyed Church of Climatology looneytune crooks”

    and

    “greenmailing scumbag econazi charlatans”

    Three quotes for today. (grin)

    “Where the state begins, individual liberty ceases, and vice versa.”

    — Mikhail Bakunin

    “It does not take a majority to prevail… but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men.”

    — Samuel Adams

    “If you start to take Vienna – take Vienna.”

    — Napoleon Bonaparte

    Best,
    L’Amerloque

    Now is not the time to let up !

    Amerloque 20100923 09h22 Paris time (CET)

  18. Pointman says:

    Once again Ozboy, a good thought provoking topic. Two thoughts occur. The first is that holding them to account, while a satisfying idea, will never happen. The politicians are already distancing themselves from it and the only casualties will be the high profile advocates like Gore. What we can do though, is remind them of what they said and how they voted at the height of the mania. We’re in a unique position to do this now. Hitherto, we’d have had to go through newspaper morgues to find out that information. Now we can simply search the internet and post the results.

    The second thought is that even populist manias need to be managed politically. Monbiot, to give him his due, recognised this and outlined the correct mitigation strategy in the immediate wake of Climategate but was ignored by the alarmist camp. Fire Pachauri, Jones et al, a few Mea Culpas and back to business as usual. While I don’t think this strategy would have saved them in the end, I think it was a lot better than the reply they actually did ie ignore it all, stay quiet, it’ll all blow over. He knew what the blogosphere could do and they thought it was irrelevant. They still think so. Essentially, they still haven’t changed strategy at all which, as I said months ago, is good for us. They’ll ramp up the Alarmism ahead of Cancun and insist the ‘science’ is sound, even in the face of a public relations disaster in its credibility.

    They’re still trying to defend the Hockey Stick and the ‘methods’ used are laughable

    http://wattsupwiththat.com/2010/09/23/rcs-response-to-mcshane-and-wyner-the-teams-steaming-pile-of-snip/#more-25226

    Pointman

  19. rastech says:

    I might well be wrong, but I think the eco-fascists, Al Gore, and their puppetmasters/cronies are in a tizz, because something far bigger is about to break.

    AGW was/is just a useful propaganda tool in their armoury.

    The real problem is, when Society wakes up to the fact that things have got to the point, that everything is stacked against them. It’s like walking into a Casino, and the house deals from the bottom of every deck, all dice are loaded, the roulette wheel is rigged, and the ‘entertainment’ is getting you to pay £100 for a glass of champagne that’s only coloured water.

    This is what the Political Criminals have done to the World we inhabit. We are nothing but Cash Cows to their income stream.

    Now when that sinks in, it ends Civilisations. People walk from Cities, leaving the ‘elites’ dead behind them, which is why there are so many abandoned Cities around the World, stretching back 1,000’s of years.

    If these Crooks aren’t brought to account, if The Rule of Law is not demonstrated to be acting fully and competently, then we lose The Rule of Law.

    Without which, it is literally ‘Game Over’.

    Unfortunately, it appears that ‘the game’ is so rigged, that kickstarting The Rule of Law into life and action, might be an impossibility.

    To be honest, it’s been getting me down recently, that these psychopathic criminals (for that is indeed what they are), don’t even have enough of a survival instinct to recognise how essential it is to see the very real risks, and even turn themselves in to cop a plea, to help defuse things. Consequences, are indeed lost on them.

    So somehow, if Civilisation itself is to survive, then matters have to be taken out of their hands, The Rule of Law imposed on them, and returned to its position of Guarantor of Rights and Liberties. Once the violence starts (and it will), it will be remarkably hard to stop it, and scores will indeed be settled.

    It will be a bloodbath, and these fools will not survive (think execution of the Russian Czar and his family, the French ‘Terror’, heck, even Rwanda, on the grand scale).

    Our best hope now might be, to be the voice of Reason and Common Sense, on the sidelines.

    I really hope we can do more, but tbh, I really can’t see it.

    We stand to lose so much too.

    Still, the fact that the Dark Ages were a pretty good time for ordinary people, until Rome and the Vikings showed up, is at least some comfort.

  20. rastech says:

    The cat’s out of the bag for the Political Criminals too Pointy.

  21. rastech says:

    Pointy the massive problem they have, is their ‘agit-prop playbook’ has been carefully crafted to conceal their reality and their true intent.

    If they stray from their playbook, everyone can quickly see exactly what they are (and that they aren’t nice people, becomes glaringly and instantly obvious to everybody).

    They are well and truly up the creek without a paddle, and the more they keep provoking the Hornets Nest . . . . . . .

  22. Pointman says:

    Hi Ras.

    I share some of the concerns you’ve outlined but I’m a bit more optimistic. Political change is glacial and while its future direction is uncertain, we can learn a lot from looking back, even in the short term. I, like you, was posting against AGW for a number of years with not much impact but in the space of the last year, we’ve made terrific progress. The ‘science’ is toast, the reputations of the IPCC, Pachuari, Jones are in tatters and the politicians are in full retreat on the whole issue. For every alarmist report by ‘scientists’ in the run up to Cancun, I’ll simply be posting “Was this research done by the Climategate scientists?”. End of story.

    Their strategy in dealing with the blogosphere has always been to marginalise and ignore us. Climategate proved that it was essentially a losing strategy and it will continue to be. Personally, I never allow them to make me feel marginalised because that’s the only way they can win. We outed Climategate, not the MSM. We are the power in the infowar campaigns now.

    I fear violence will erupt in the wake of Cancun’s failure. While the realists riding the climate bandwagon are jumping off, the true believers don’t know yet their glory days are behind them. For a lot of them, it was their life, their raison d’etre. For the most zealous, I think their reaction will be a wave of real terrorism. Now is the time for the security services to start monitoring them before they tip over.

    Pointman

  23. suffolkboy says:

    Code Green on http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jamesdelingpole/100054970/climate-change-even-porritt-knows-the-games-up/ . DDT airlift needed urgently. Civilisation re-organisation can be delayed.

  24. Locusts says:

    To think that I’ve played my own little little part in destroying a cause that I once held dear…

  25. G’day, O Great Oracle Bear Of Many Names. Answer me if you will, why does Disqus swallow half my comments at DT? I’m most polite there and don’t include any untoward links – Oz

    The Delirium Tremens is not a ship with but one captain, it in itself is an arena not unlike the Coliseum in “Gladiator,” except there are 20 to 50 sides contending for position each and every day LOL

    This being the case, I rather suspect in your case you are rightfully perceived as a ringleader and therefore a threat to the Empire of the Damned, by certain factions withinthat outpost of the Fourth Estate. You should know also that IT types invariably are what they would term “anti-gearhead.” They despise those who are mechanically inclined, not only because I-Turds usually aren’t, but because the mantra of the IT types is the digital universe is a better world because one need not contend with physical reality, rather you can render it a useful extinct myth while making of fantasy the new reality. IT types seem so intent on herding all into its corral of pink sky castles for the practical reason that to do so is the means and end for getting paid weekly. If you consider but for one moment, the true persuasive power and inertia which IT fantasies lent to AGW illusion was its capacity to render reality an undesirable universe to inhabit. All arguments in favour of AGW were IT-driven casuistry of the type which makes arguments about the number of angels one can fit on the head of a pin look positively lucid.

    Why go out into the smelly and dangerous and profoundly uncooperative physical world to take actual measurements when the dancing coloured glass screen beckons with its siren call?

    Shane Richmond is probably your nemesis at the DT, Oz. I would have said five years ago it was a female editor with a penchant for macrame, Rosa Luxembourg, and the Bader Meinhof Gang except that even then male and female emotional gender universes have been traded completely and totally: that too is the power of the Net in action, and on the dark side it is too, Skywalker. Mark Saunders threw a bitchy hissy fit with a weapon because he was EMBARASSED and guilty at having been caught out at having a bit on the side as a divorce lawyer. Um, guys didn’t used to do that, Oz. They’d laugh, share a dirty joke with the other guys at getting caught, live with the divorce, and get ten or twenty women bothering them everyday thereafter because “Oh, I can change him!” seems to be the most powerful delusion which drives women to pursue men, or used to be, anyway.

    IMHO

    They left me alone because to harass the technical types gets people to read the harassee’s posts. Again, bitch logic, but again, IMHO, perpetrated by guys. Roles are entirely reversed now with the New Age Sensitive Man.

    The DT is for the long drop if they lose Hilary Alexander and the Ambrose Pritchard-Evans type of workers, IMHO. They will transform into the bag of hammers C+ journalism major hideway the BBC Online and the NYT have become. Delingpole is wise to be both freelancer and to maintain several second incomes. They don’t let actual journalists “do” journalism which draws people in and humanizes the universe for the masses as was once their charter. The DT just softens the reader up to the point the advertising messages stick to one’s brain like ear-worms (addictive jingles and slogans) to permanently invade one’s personal tranquility.

  26. I haven’t posted to the DT since the changeover from WordPress to Dickless. My life is better for it. No more Iggyjack, no more Growc*nt, no more Fabio’s Extrusions (I’m Too Sexy for My Shirt is an ear-worm the author of which I would cheerfully feed to giant lobsters), no more technical arguments with people who couldn’t change a tyre on their own vehicle to save their lives, no more accidentally kicking people I actually respect however grudgingly in the cojones –I think I have offended more celebs and do-ers at the DT than I ever have at any workplace I have ever been rented out to–no more Jebedee/johnthebearcub/Kelowna, BC, socialist sociopath, etc. etc.

    Stephen Hough and Richard Dorment and a film column which was once run by an actual industry “player” were great magnets for me, but their appearances are too few and far between. Writers of news once also had the wisdom to realise that what draws youth into needed occupations is coverage of those fields: now there is a dearth of proper builders, engineers, operating technicians for infrastructure, yet the MSM has instead ensured we have a non-stop stream of doctors, lawyers, politicians, dodgy vocoder’d anti-musicians, state-approved celebuskanks and other intermittently employable quasi-sociopaths. The DT has decided it wants pole position in the Dumbdown Sweepstakes of which quality can reach the level of journalistic incompetence evinced by the “National Enquirer” and the “Daily Mawl” first.

  27. What’s going on is like the derivatives crash of 2006-2008: someone left the keys out for the liquor cabinet in the IT sections of the world’s banks and trading bourses, except now it is in the realm of what was once science.

    I’ve not read a thing about the impact substance abuse has had on the technical professions of a non-playing sort, i.e., theoretical science, but it would be fun to urine test the entire lot of the IPCC and other greentard fraudsters, as well as the execs of the investment brokers who work with them hand in hand. I think one would come up with a 30% bust rate as a minimum. At least in the States, upper level banking execs are exempt from the very testing their tellers are subject to, and it is no difference in the new alchemical myth-generating trades.

  28. Difference should be different. :>p

  29. One also should not be in charge of a multi-billion pound operation if one needs prescription goofy pills to face the day, also. The same rules that apply to British and Canadian pilots or DHS operational players ought to apply in business. We really wouldn’t be in the mess which we are now fiscally, were this the case.

    Prescription stuff is as buzzifying and stoopid-rendering and lethal than illegal stuff, and it is everywhere. Something like 1,100 Americans a year die of overdoses from prescription drugs (not all of it psychometric, but you get my point). It is beyond silly to think you can manage and maintain wealth in a nation where 30% or more of the working population are stoned out of their minds 24/7.

    Prescription drugs are why so many people now look and act absolutely crazy and twisted and berserk and zombified. It is because they are.

  30. Excuse me, that’s per week, not per year.

  31. Pointman says:

    “Issa calls for “relook” at climate science”

    “It could be happening faster or slower,” he added, “but it’s very clear that those people played fast and loose with both the truth and our money.”

    http://thehill.com/blogs/e2-wire/677-e2-wire/120455-issa-calls-for-qcareful-relookq-of-climate-science

    A political toe in the new waters, even in California. The Mike Castle of Delaware lesson has been picked up …

    Pointman

  32. In my experience, leftards invented being ripped on drugs 24/7, yet not a word on this state of affairs from them, ever. A doped populace is politically useful, apparently.

  33. Pointman,

    Issa’s shortest distance between two points is to urine test the “scientists” like the future ex-cons they are. After all, what is the inevitable outcome of all this is the fraudsters will have to repay every dime and pence they extorted with their lies.

  34. Pointman says:

    Hi Walt,

    “the fraudsters will have to repay every dime and pence they extorted ” – in a perfect world, that might happen but not in this one. After four ‘investigations’ of Climategate found the criminals to be lilly white, I’m not expecting any money back. We’ll just have to be content with winning in the end. That’s as good as it’ll get.

    We could do a bit of scouting and screaming at them.

    Pointman

  35. Pointman, my fondest dream is of some wind farm the investment firm handling the national policemen’s pension fund bought into going bankrupt and losing the client pension funds thereby. SWAT teams would be showing up locked and loaded thereafter at greentards’ homes just to collect on jaywalking tickets LOL

  36. Pointman, I know of many Federal contracts which ten years later were found to be padded and otherwise skewed, and believe me, the Feds do collect if they feel they have been had. With interest.

    The folks at Defense Contract Management Agency keep a list of who’s been naughty and nice, and the other and non-defence related agencies do as well. All DCMA does is stomp on crooked contractors’ pee-pees. They have the size 200 steel clown shoes to do it, too.

  37. Amerloque says:
    September 23, 2010 at 5:19 pm

    Love the names, Amerloquacious. I’ll be back in a mo with a few to add to the list, plus…a painting LOL

  38. Pointman says:

    Walt, don’t get me wrong, there’s nothing I’d rather see than those criminals behind bars and for crimes against humanity rather than fraud but I don’t see either happening.

    The reputation of the scientists and the science is in ruins. The former are now condemned to academic oblivion and the latter to death by funding starvation.

    The next lot of criminals are the politicians. They’ll suffer at the ballot box and for as long as we dig up and post the dirt on them. Every time a ‘reformed’ Alarmist runs, I’m going to be reminding people of their previous position by posting.

    The third and last bunch of criminals are the MSM. I stopped watching TV news or listening to the wireless news some time ago. I notice most young people do the same and it’s not apathy – they simply get their news and views from the net because the MSM is predicable and therefore irrelevant to them. One explained it to me beautifully. Given any story I could make up, he could tell me the way it would be slanted for any particular MSM outlet. I tried him out, he was spot on every time.

    It’s harder to see at this point in time but the heyday of the MSM is behind it. It has refused to adapt to the new world and having abandoned any commitment to digging out the truth, is now seen as simply another organ of the establishment. Indeed, in some areas, it’s trying to ignore reality completely – witness the London Times retreating behind a pay wall. The writing is on the wall.

    Pointman

  39. Amerloque says:

    Hello Evanescently-Pseudonymed Ursus !
    On September 24, 2010 at 12:29 am

    Darrell Issa represents a goodly part of SoCal. You know, the one with the great surfing beaches. (grin)

    He is the second richest member of Congress. (wider grin)

    Might the AGW ship be holed chez les riches ? (widest grin)

    Best,
    L’Amerloque

  40. Pointman says:

    Well, well. A little investigation into Mr. Issa’s Damascene conversion to a skeptic stance reveals a more immediate motivation beyond simple political survival.

    http://voices.washingtonpost.com/postpartisan/2010/09/the_gops_post-election_hit_lis.html

    Pointman

  41. Grittinks, komrades. Esteemed Colleague Pointinsky, iss very goot you haf discovered Komrade Issa’s agendum. TBH, unusual for me LOL I zink all zee points on der list are worthy of scrupulous interrogation and fingernail manicures mit white-hot pliers.

    Hope he does for zee lot of zem.

    But wait! There’s more! St. Bearabus needs to be more frequently promulgated:

    http://www.transactionsmagazine.com/BearabusDiedForOurSins.jpg PLUS

    EcoEnviroBiotard Toad sez: “I toad you so so it must be true.”

    Briddup, stand up, stand up for the Right! Briddup, stand up, come and join the fight!

  42. Pointman says:

    Nice work Walt. I see the connection though, drugs and rainbows.

    Pointman

  43. Pointman says:

    “UN climate chief resignation call”

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-11395194

    We are living in interesting times indeed. The BBC orchestrating, sorry reporting on, calls for Pachauri’s head. Too late Luvvies, too late …

    Pointman

  44. Dr. Dave says:

    I thought of Wally Bear’s defense of the labor unions when I saw this…

    http://www.breitbart.tv/bailed-out-union-auto-workers-busted-boozing-smoking-weed/

    Ahh…sweet Detroit. It’s not just a city, it’s a way of life.

  45. Dr. Dave says:
    September 24, 2010 at 4:30 am

    A) at least when I worked at the now-closed Gibraltar Ford plant, Michigan Casting Center, the leakers and drips got their stash from their super’s and the white collars, who at that time were there for eight hours a day first shift except for meeting their clientele in the parking lot to service the dopers on third shift;

    B) line workers have to take piss tests and get breathalyzed randomly by security. White collar are still exempt;

    C) as in the military, civilian managers are responsible for worker morale, performance, quality control, design and production quotas. This is fair as this is what they are trained to do, and they typically make three to five times what their line workers do. Unlike in other industries, Detroit auto industry line managers don’t get fired. Why? 1. relatives and or their clergyman got them the job in the first place–it’s why Dearborn and Hamtramck are almost all Arab now, you do business there the same way 2. blow jobs, brown envelopes and other management-style fixes 3. political fixes. Dem-friendly managers got the plant the bailout, not the line workers.

    LB (Little Brother) and Bis Sis both worked for GM as managers for as long as it took for them to get positions at EDS when it was run by H. Ross Perot, who interviewed them personally. When EDS sold out to GM, both moved with H. Ross out of the melee of corruption. I don’t like how it is, either, but the core problem is not the auto industry, nor the unions, it’s the people who think they can lead being in denial when everything they touch turns to crap, including their businesses, their personal lives, their marriages and their political systems.

    I am to the point that I would almost be willing to vote for the first politician who had the integrity to say “I personally screwed this up because I am a complete arsehole. I am now going to fix it, with your permission and support.”

    Michigan people invented blameological do-nothingism as the present state religion. Everyone’s real fix is to move to Traverse City or Grand Rapids, which basically means to me that in 5 or ten years those towns will be like Detroit is now LOL

    Back in its heyday, the auto industry was just like the union and non-union mechanical construction industry’s family owned sector is now: owned and operated by first generation immigrants, family-centric minorities or military veterans of distinction (since 1992 or so, a bad-discharge ex-con drug/alcohol screwup “veteran” gets hiring priority over full honourable discharged vets if they do their 12-step meetings, and in fact lots of auto workers get hired through the contacts they make at AA and NA–I would wage you know that personally if you have worked in any auto related plant, it is an ancient standing auto industry joke).

    Both the Nixonites and the Carterites backed the pukification of the auto workplace, and management formulated and/or implemented these policies.

    I wish life were a cartoon with clear-cut and plain divisions. The reality is always a bit trickier. No progress with the workforce is going to be made until there is leadership from the degree’d white collar crowd, which includes taking responsibility for their f**kups, which includes not staying on top of the workers. If the managers were out on the floor watching what the workers were doing, and if the managers weren’t druggies or dealers themselves, there wouldn’t be a drug problem in the first place. Full stop.

  46. The truth of the matter is what happened to Michigan happened because the people, all of them, deserved it. Richly. It should be called the Hooray for Me, To Hell With You state. If you have even the slightest shred of genuine ability to work with others and are a nice person in Michigan, you are dead meat unless you fight like a rat every waking day.

  47. I’ll tell you this for free, too: the Republicans as they stand now have no industrial rejuvenation plan, either. They have no plan to impose countervailing tariffs to preserve American industry, they have no infrastructure employment programme to see the workforce through this Depression, this when we have 70% of our standards-regulated bridges classified as in desperate need of repair, many having been in that condition for the past 35 years (which is funny, too, in that an equal percentage of those bridges were made during the Depression as work-relief projects which were also necessary).

    The Right is as much behind globalization and moving jobs overseas as the Left, maybe more so, as many are in industry.

    They have no plan. If there is one, I would like to see it. The present Republicans chased out the Buckleys and the Deweys and the Eisenhowers and anyone else who could eat a sandwich and walk from a scholarly and strategic planning standpoint thirty years ago. “Free market” is now code for “don’t know what to do, and don’t care to know.”

    We shall be very lucky if we do not have a triumphant totalitarian take the stage from either (or both) sides of the fence to lead us off the cliff into oblivion.

  48. For this reason, it is still too early to say that Kablamma is doomed to lose his majority in November. He will still be in the drivers’ seat in Congress if the unemployed don’t show up to vote, which is the usual drill. Contrary to popular preconceptions, the stats don’t support the notion that the unemployed automatically vote against those who made them unemployed. Usually they are a no show.

  49. izen says:

    I finally got around to reading the Monbiot article, having been primed by comments here to expect a wholesale recantation of his espousal of AGW theory.
    Perhaps it is an example of the differing confirmation bias we bring to it that I did not find a Paulian conversion in the article.

    It read to me like a belated realisation that the global systems of governance just do not exist that can enact or enforce the policies that would be required to ameliorate CO2 emissions. That concerted trans-national action is only likely to be significant AFTER any significant impacts from global warming have happened.

    Its an opinion I have held for some time, that adaption is the only response that individual national governments are capable of. There will be no significant or effect global reduction in emissions because the global collective authority does not exist.
    The Earth is still dominated by individual nation states with their own self-interest with the inevitable result that a Tragedy of the Commons will ensue because the collective ability to manage the resource (the atmosphere as a CO2 sink) is conspicuously absent.
    That concerted trans-national action is only likely to be significant AFTER any significant impacts from global warming have happened.

    However the lack of a global political ability to respond to a global threat does not refute the existence of that threat. Historical and topical example abound.

    The call made to bring the scientists to book for fraud and corruption just look silly. How far back are you going to go?
    I know I’ve asked this before (with little response) but when do any of you think the ‘post-normal’ science and inaccurate physics began?
    Presumably Fourier and Tyndall in Victorian times were still practising kosher science, how about Poullit and Arrhenius?
    Was Callender the first of the fakes, or the last of the honest theoreticians?

    Note that Monbiot’s piece talks about the failure of the last 18 years. That makes no sense for a science that is over a century old, but does make sense if you realise he is talking about the POLITICAL efforts to get global agreements. It is that he has realised is a fictive and impossible goal because the collective ability either as a global coercive force, or a communal global belief in a significant course of action do not exist.

    The claim we are about to enter a period of cooling looks especially foolish in a year which has equaled the previous warmest global temperatures in the instrumental record.
    And 1998 was a year with the strongest El Nino seen and high solar activity. This equaly warm year is during a strong low in solar activity and a La Nina event.
    If anyone REALLY thinks the next decade is going to be as cool as the 80s there are climate futures markets who will be only to happy to offer amazing returns on such a bet – and take your money.

    You could of course doubt all the instrumental data, ground/sea measurements and satellite. Then you have to hold that the biologists observing the change in plant and animal behavior are in collusion, along with the glacier monitoring researchers, of course there are all those old photos of glaciers to compare with the present, but its amazing what you can do with photoshop…

    I don’t dispute there are shadowy political movements that believe in global collectivism as an end in itself, and regard AGW theory as a convinient scientific hook to hang their activism on.
    I suspect a case can be made for equally obscure groups who have an economic or ideological interest in perpetuating the status quo and respond to evidence that it is not viable with distortion denial and exaggeration. Again historical examples are obvious. But such conspiracy theories are ultimately an ouroboros.

    Remove or discredit all those connected with the ‘climategate’ emails, and all their data and findings. Remove all the instrumental data gathered since the 1950s and you are STILL left with a coherent body of scientific work that makes the implications of a 30% increase and rising level of atmospheric CO2 a significant risk to climate stability because of the magnitude of geophysical change it represents.

    The politics will continue to be dominated by national self-interest and the short-termism of multinational markets. But the environment in which that political froth will operate will be determined by the geophysics of the climate.
    Nature gets the single, final and only vote on what the climate will do, and on that front the evidence is unequivocal. How society, global and local, responds will be down to the political achievable, but it will be in response to the material reality.

    The tail does not wag the dog, at least not for long!

    Morning Izen,

    Lots of meat in your post, which deserves at least some brief responses:

    I did briefly note the gist of the Monbiot article at the top. A recantation of AGW science it certainly was not.

    The number of scientists actively engaged in fraud is probably quite low, but as Climategate reveals, includes some of AGW’s most high-profile proponents. High-level lawsuits against some of them have been set in motion in the USA: a country that takes the crime of fraud rather more seriously than does yours. The likelihood of more American lawsuits will increase after the November congressional elections, when even Democrat members will wish to distance themselves from the current administration and its policies. Don’t expect any Congressional inquiry to be headed by a proprietor of a wind farm, as happened recently in Britain. Hardly “silly”.

    As to the weather markets you cite, ask yourself: why do the likes of Al Gore and his supporters not avail themselves of such easy money as you describe? Why does he sink it into waterfront property instead? You may have your answer to this question, but I guarantee, mine is a lot simpler, and fits the facts.

    No arguments regarding nations and their self-interest. You regard it as a confounding factor, whereas I regard it as a compounding factor.

    You’re right that it’s too early to conclusively point to the effects of an impending solar minimum, but articles of this kind are increasingly finding their way into the peer-reviewed literature. We don’t play silly Google wars here at LibertyGibbert (thank God) but you can chase these down as easily as I can. Expect to see more and more emerging.

    Even after all the “adjustments”, “homogenizations”, unexplained loss of raw data and algorithms, and entreaties to take on faith unsupported computer models, these folks still can’t get the earth’s climate to rise since 1998. They call this a “travesty”. I call it a theory falsified.

    Oz

  50. Dr. Dave says:

    Walt,

    They say, “don’t poke the bear”. Well, perhaps I did. I just didn’t expect such a response. I was born in Detroit (1957) but my family wisely moved to the SW corner of the state when I was an infant. I watched the creeping effects of labor unions as I grew up. We had the corporate headquarters and the major manufacturing facilities of Whirlpool in my home town. Whirlpool was unionized early on but for many years it remained the only major union shop in the area. As the unions encroached further businesses shut down. Some went out of business, others just pulled up stakes and relocated to friendlier pastures.

    One prominent manufacturer in the area was a family owned business that manufactured industrial vacuum pumps and other pumping equipment. They employed several hundred people and were famous for their generous wages, excellent benefits and fierce employee loyalty. Then the unions came calling. The “old man” set up a meeting with all of his employees. He explained that he had made his fortune and had always treated them well. He said if they voted for a union he would sell the business. The union was defeated…for a while. Eventually they came back again and eventually the employees voted for a union. True to his word, the owner shut down. He didn’t just sell the business…he sold it in pieces and parts.

    Eventually the union decided to play “truth or dare” with Whirlpool. Whirlpool retained their corporate headquarters but shut down ALL the manufacturing and moved it to other states. Who were the big losers? Aside from the union leadership the biggest losers were the town and the people who had lost their jobs. The damn union simply got too greedy.

    My Dad was the chief audio engineer for a local company that made the best “consumer grade” audio equipment built in the USA (prior to Japan taking over the market). Sure enough, the union “organized” this shop, too. I remember my Dad telling me about a guy who had worked for many years. He rode into work with his wife and so arrived about 20 minutes early. He would take his thermos of coffee and sit down and read the paper in the break room until everyone else showed for work. On his way to the breakroom he would flip the switches on the solder pots so they could heat up and everybody could start working as soon as they showed up. The union got wind of this and pitched a fit. The guy said he didn’t mind doing it. He had to turn on the lights anyway to get to the breakroom.

    How did this turn out? Well the company was not about to pay this guy 2 hours of overtime each week because he came in early (to his own benefit). It was finally settled. The guy was simply not allowed in the building until starting time. Problem solved. Except this poor guy had to stand outside in Michigan winters for 20 minutes before the shop opened. The shop went out of business about 3 years later.

    So I don’t buy the “management is just as guilty” argument. Over the last 50 years the industrial might of the USA has been brought to its knees PRIMARILY by labor unions. I’ve never worked in a union shop (well…not as a member). I’ve worked for organizations that were pure meritocracies. You screwed up, you were fired. You did well, you’re promoted. A decade or so I practiced at a hospital that had unionized nurses. It was the worst medical care I ever witnessed. Even after being caught red handed stealing narcotics and falsifying records these nurses were nearly impossible to fire. This wasn’t “management’s fault”…it was the damn unions.

  51. NoIdea says:

    Izen

    The global collective authority does not exist.
    And this in my opinion was the primary reason that they decided to choose “pollution” or global warming as it became to be known, only by having a threat so dangerous that it threatens all nations could they hope to impose their global collective authority. It was CO2 or a made up alien threat (remember Ronald Reagan’s alien speech?)

    Quote “I know I’ve asked this before (with little response) but when do any of you think the ‘post-normal’ science and inaccurate physics began?”

    I repeat my “little response”

    In answer to your question “If you believe the ‘game’ is rigged, when did it start, with Fourier, Tyndall or Callendar?” Fourier was a scientist not a melon, it seems Callender was mistaken or wrong, but the rigging started to be noticeable IMO in 1989 with the losing of thousands of weather station volunteers, the Manual no2 and the adjustments to all records ever upwards.

    I have had a look at the links you kindly provided for Fourier and Callender, from them I learnt a few interesting things.

    So, what did Fourier contribute to the foundations of the science of global warming?
    In my opinion, nothing, Fourier was a scientist, and a realist.

    If we ask what did Fourier contribute to math’s and science?
    Then the answer is a great deal.

    When I looked at what Fourier is supposed to have said I found…

    “.. . we conclude that, from the Greek school at Alexandria, till the present time, the temperature of the surface has not diminished, on this account, the three hundredth part of a degree. Here again we find that stability which the great phenomena of the universe every where present.”

    Here we find Fourier in realist fashion stating that he had found no COOLING since the time of the ancient Greeks, and that stability was found.

    I found the fifth statement by Fourier that the author of the page found “slightly cryptic” to actually be a remarkable accurate description of the Urban Heat Island Effect.

    “The establishment and progress of human society, and the action of natural powers, may, in extensive regions, produce remarkable changes in the state of the surface, the distribution of the waters, and the great movements of the air. Such effects, in the course of some centuries, must produce variation in the mean temperature for such places; for the analytical expressions contain coefficients which are related to the state of the surface, and have a great influence on the temperature.”

    Fourier also noted…
    “… but the application of these laws to very complicated effects, requires a long course of accurate observations.”
    Accurate observations have of course been prevented from being taken (in the USA) since the introduction of the Manual in 1989 and the change over to electronic gauges and the always be rounding up instructions found within.
    In conclusion Fourier was no melon, he was a scientist and mathematician that today’s jokers could learn a lot from.

    Callender, it appears, is most famous for being wrong.
    “And partly it is because he did not anticipate the temperature declines experienced in the 1950s and 1960s. Thus, at the end of his life, he was wrong about the most central of his conclusions: that he had actually detected the human fingerprint on Earth’s climate.”
    Callender was also aware of the UHIE, however, in his day the effect was described as a little higher near the centre of large towns, these days the effect is large and noticeable, often as much as 2C warmer in London than surrounding areas.
    “It is well known that temperatures, especially the night minimum, are a little higher near the centre of a large town than they are in the surrounding country districts; if, therefore, a large number of buildings have accumulated in the vicinity of a station during the period under consideration, the departures at that station would be influenced thereby and a rising trend would be expected.”

    It seems that Callender was not a “Carbon alarmist.” His paper concludes:
    “. . . the combustion of fossil fuel, whether it be peat from the surface or oil from 10,000 feet below, is likely to prove beneficial to mankind in several ways, besides the provision of heat and power. For instance the above mentioned small increases of mean temperature would be important at the northern margin of cultivation, and the growth of favourably situated plants is directly proportional to the carbon dioxide pressure (Brown and Escombe, 1905). In any case the return of the deadly glaciers should be delayed indefinitely.
    As regards the reserves of fuel these would be sufficient to give at least ten times as much carbon dioxide as there is in the air at present.”
    If Callender was wrong in thinking that the warming trend of his day was due to human emissions and he did not predict the cooling trend of the post-war years, and was at a loss to specifically account for it, then why would we believe his prediction that the increase in CO2 will fend off “the return of the deadly glaciers”?

    Quote “The claim we are about to enter a period of cooling looks especially foolish in a year which has equaled the previous warmest global temperatures in the instrumental record.”
    The claim that we are equaling the warmest global temperatures in the instrumental record would merely seem to confirm that the instrumental records are broken or bogus in a year which has actually felt (and been, according to the satellite map of land surface temperature anomalies http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/IOTD/view.php?id=43235) much colder than normal for much of humanity.

    From NASA “In late January 2010, NASA’s Goddard Institute for Space Studies announced that the 2009 average global temperature was among the hottest observed since 1880. Looking at these maps, though, you can imagine how surprising that conclusion might have been to many residents of Mexico, the United States, central Canada, Sweden, or northern Russia. Each of those places experienced strong, sometimes deadly cold-temperature anomalies, and in some cases, record-breaking snow this past winter.”

    So yes, while you can point at all the doom mongers hollering hottest ever!
    The vast majority of humanity will shiver through another long cold winter.

    Quote “Nature gets the single, final and only vote on what the climate will do, and on that front the evidence is unequivocal.”

    I agree with this statement 100%, and despite your gloomy predictions that we are all cooking, I fear my chilling observations will come to pass.

    Perhaps you should try going outside occasionally and observing the climate in the flesh, you will soon notice that the temperatures never actually reach those predicted by the Met office, or those reported as measured.

    How cold will it have to get for you to accept that there is no warming?

    How did your investigations into the falling sea levels go?

    NoIdea

  52. Pointman says:

    Walt, Dave. When any organisation fails, it is always the fault of the leadership. They’re making the big decisions or not in the case of organized labor which may be out of control. That’s it.

    Pointman

  53. Pointman says:

    Folks,

    Ozboy’s Bar & Grill is heading for its 10,000th comment. I’d like to thank Ozboy for giving his time and acumen to us all. This bar has been a thoughtful eye in the storm over the last few months. Over and above that, it’s been a blast …

    Pointman

  54. Pointman says:

    Like I said Izen, nobody’s even interested in offering. Enjoy the silence …

    Pointman

  55. I see at the DT that the carbon and renewables quangos are getting the axe. All of them Bwahahahahaha!

    Cameron rules OK. Interesting also that the film training folks are being retained in full on a privatized basis, yet the Film Board (an advisory body) is getting the axe. It’s not really a bonfire of the quangos. It is triage.

    The Canadians started this type “pencil it out or die” routine with quangos back during Chretien’s and Martin’s regime. Those service areas are now better served today than they were previously, primarily because the bodies which survived have to cost-justify themselves in terms of ROI against the original investment by the State vis a vis the benefit yielded to the constituency.

  56. Pointman says:

    My friend, the judeo celtic bear does his thing, as only he can do but the Sun still goes down in Wallawoora. In the morn, I will go forth among new men and new minds.

    Pointman

  57. Dr. Dave says:

    There is a certain beauty to AGW theory that many often overlook. That is, it’s a THEORY, not a physical law or a reality of nature. This makes the skeptics’ job dirt simple. We don’t need to prove that any warming (real, imagined or faked) is NOT happening because of mankind’s influence. It is incumbent upon those who promote this theory to prove that it is – with real, direct empiric evidence (not the assertions of a bunch of biologists).

    I read Izen’s missive and simply shook my head. If we had practiced sensible aviation mitigation in 1920 we wouldn’t have crowded airports today. Instead we are forced to “adapt” to this bane of modern technology.

    AGW has been thoroughly discredited in terms of something that is happening right now that can be measured. Our satellite records show just minor variations and no startling trend. The surface temperature record is nearly nonexistent because the data have been manipulated to the point of being meaningless. The ARGO system, though short in duration, reveals, if anything, cooling oceans. There is no substance to the myth.

    BUT…we should never forget that AGW is a multinational business worth literally hundreds of billions of dollars per year. It won’t die without a fight. Tens of thousands depend on this fraud for their livelihood. Look at the extensive investments that have been made in education (i.e. propaganda), banking, commodities trading, politics, etc. No one will willingly forfeit all this without a fight. The climate scientists who perpetuate this fraud are essentially being paid by governments who want to perpetuate this fraud. They are “the little guys”. The big criminals are much farther up the food chain.

  58. Pointman says:

    Sleep eludes me or is it the loose thread that nags? There is a fourth bunch of criminals, who are of course in the majority and untouchable and for whom there will be no retribution and therefore no learning. That’s what burns.

    Pointman

  59. Walt O'Bruin says:

    Pointman says:
    September 24, 2010 at 9:34 am

    Oh, yeah. You just had an election, right? Sorry. Forgot.

    Dr. Dave, the funniest bit is that everyone’s pension funds are tied up in this scam, so even if everyone on the planet said NO MORE AGW BS, and therefore no more uneconomic state-subsidized renewables, everyone would still be out of not only luck, but their pensions.

    D’Oh!

    And Walt, you’ve just penned LibertyGibbert’s nine thousandth comment.

    Many thanks to all the community here for your contributions.

    I’ll have to think up a prize for whoever hits the 10,000th – Oz

  60. Walt O'Bruin says:

    Gee, Pointman, it’s worse than that. Your speaker agreement basically gives the greens and reds a free hand in future greentard policy formulation, am I right?

    What also is up with Obama going to Indonesia but not Oz, for pete’s sake?

    Hey, JFK went to Ireland—BB can visit Java if he wants, I suppose.

    Also, I suspect the administration doesn’t want to be associated with failure and democratic chaos.

    Neither does YOUR government – Oz 😉

  61. Dr. Dave says:

    Altered Walter,

    The funniest bit is that if you and I were to meet up in a (real) bar sometime we would end up being dear friends. [for my Australian friends, derisive name calling is considered an art form for those from Michigan]

    However, Walt, you DO make a VERY good point regarding pension funds. Many of these invested in “green futures”. Of course these investments were made by know-nothings with freshly minted MBAs. Recently I took the time to explore “pensions” within my social sphere. My cousins and Uncle who worked for the Big 3 all their careers all have lavish pensions. Most of my family and friends are in the same boat I’m in…planning for my OWN retirement. We don’t have pension plans…we have retirement plans and investments. MOST American workers don’t have pension plans. Do I care if some pension plans go belly up? Nope! Like most everybody else I have had to save and invest for the future. BTW…I’ve never invested a nickel in “green technology”.

    Cheers, buddy bear.

  62. Locusts says:

    Guardian comment of the day:

    crydda
    21 September 2010 6:17PM

    I wish we could have a human culling plan – the other creatures who inhabit this planet would be a far better off without us.

  63. NoIdea says:

    Holy confused melons Batman!

    I have noticed that many “concerned greens” are calling on a Human cull to save the planet.

    I have also noticed a push by the charity Oxfam to save people from climate change.
    http://www.oxfam.org.uk/get_involved/campaign/climate_change/?ito=3958&pscid=disp_CC4_ScM_Ytub_300_B

    So do they want to save us to kill us, or kill us to save us?

    Can we start a melon war, Oxfam V Greenpeace perhaps?

    NoIdea

  64. Locusts says:

    NoIdea

    The overpopulation claims worry me. Is it an issue? What is the ideal human population for the planet? If it is an issue, why are there not financial incentives for prospective parents to target it? Even in England, high immigration levels lead to high head counts come census time. Or is it just a way to make us all feel slightly guilty about being alive? I remember a Body Shop T shirt that went: “The Earth doesn’t owe you a living.”

    The population of the Roman Empire at it’s peak was about 50 million souls. I’m fairly sure that anyone who lived in Rome at it’s height would have felt like there were many many people in the world; whereas anyone who lives in the Scottish hinterland today may feel that the world is suffering from severe depopulation.

    I prefer nature over industrialized ugliness, but then, who does not?

    There was a book by Asimov where the Earth had 8 billion people, an unimaginable number of people in the 1950s, but we aren’t far off that now, called “Caves of Steel”. Everyone lived inside, like the proverbial sardines in a tin, enclosed metropolises, roofed over like shopping malls, and they were afraid of the outside world. It reminds me of some Chinese people’s reaction to the wild countryside- “There are no steps in this mountain… surely you did not mean climb this one?”

    Less people would be nice, I expect, but Whom to cull? Where? And How?

    At the moment abortion is effectively a cull of future peoples, but we replace those future bodies with immigration. I’m not sure I believe that this is a conspiracy to kill the white middle class. It is more likely just a complete lack of “joined-up” thinking by the policy makers.

    A caveat, if I am to live in a world with less people, I still expect widespread wireless internet coverage, and want just as many people on the websites I frequent, and the places I visit, unless they are wilderness, in which case, I only want me and friends; but I also want a well maintained road to enable my access.

    As always, I, like every other well meaning person, just want less of the people I don’t know, or don’t like.

  65. Walt O'Bruin says:

    I don’t have any problems with the greentards’ genocidal proposals. I have always known the American Left were spiritual heirs to the jerks and Dads culled using the weapons our Mums made in the defence plants during WW II. Them first, I say.

    Though on consideration, as so many of them forfend from reproducing to any noticeable extent, they are already marching themselves off to the pit of eternal extinction.

    Works for me LOL More fun for zombie drowned polar bears than eating baby seal brains.

    Wow, 9,000 posts. At 100 words per post on average, that’s almost a million words.

    Dr. Dave, what I have found to be hilarious about pension funds in general is that what with the constraints imposed on funds extraction once they kick in, and what with the “special” rates for various services imposed by the State, one is not especially better off if reliant on pension payouts than if one simply saved nothing and instead just did the MedicAid/MediCare/Section 8 housing/food stamps/SSI/SSDI routine. The only money of your own you really CAN get your hands on for that trip to Europe or the classes in figurative painting or producing your own films, etc., is that which you have squirreled away, and if you are not careful with that spending, you endanger your cash spending capabilities as both pension funds and the State back charge you based on means testing.

    I have a portable 401k to which I meagerly contribute for those reasons through my union (I’m a freelancer of 31 years, it is a bit of a cognitive dissonance to imagine me being part of anyone’s groupthink routine, but no one pays anyone because they do good work. You get paid because of the threat of what happens if they don’t pay you the agreed-upon rate for the work contracted when you deliver the goods). There is no point in stopping working. Unless I become complete incontinent and gaga in the workplace or my home office I plan to go at it until my head explodes as in “Scanners.”

    I think if you mingled a bit with the UAW crowd, you’d find out they are lots more upset about their own often misperceived lack of productivity than their managers and Rush are, and far more critical, as they are in a position to do something about through , um, shall we say, direct action LOL Most I have worked with or met are to the right of both of us. Even after PATCO, the AFL-CIO voted as a bloc for Reagan. You have probably not a lot of experience with how brutally if appropriately unions police their leakers and drips, either.

    Speaking in terms of my trade, I also cannot imagine doing a working and winning estimate for a power plant construction job without job classifications with correlating workhours assigned from costbooks developed empirically by the unions. Non-union shops at totally reliant on the intellectual resources relating to cost data developed over decades by organized shops, at least in my racket.

    I concur with you respecting overall political policies set by union management, as do most union rank and file LOL The workaround has been the ESOP within a union context like United Airlines and the 10,000 other US businesses that maintain workforce ownership of the business through the mechanism of the ESOP. I do feel that, unless having made a quantifiable contribution to the success of the firm based on merit such as meeting sales quotas or production efficiency improvements, that manager should be paid a dime more than line workers. I think also managers should have elective positions voted for by the workforce itself. This also takes place in many ESOP’s. You can’t get rid of a sh*t manager except through murder because there are no workhour cost or cycle-time productivity standards which link their pay to the bottom line. On an estimate to the Fed’s to DCMA standards, management are listed as “non-productive labour.”

    As far as Michigan goes, what impacted my prospects negatively there was that I was born and raised there. You could not get anywhere in either management or on the line unless you were from out of state. In the past 30 years, I have found most HR departments consciously or otherwise discriminate on this basis wherever you go. Without an inside fix, one was screwed. Bis Sis and LB got the inside track in large part due to, of all things, church connections, which I had thought went out with the 1950’s, but there you go. It’s still the Twenties here, but for the Feds having a big gun to everyone’s heads. All one has to do is scrape away the veneer of the faux Family Guys to find the lynch mob and the Silver Shirts underneath.

    I don’t like Michigan, Dr. Dave. I’m not going back either unless it is at the head of a Marine Division. My life started in earnest the day I left for good.

  66. Walt O'Bruin says:

    Should be our Dads. Digitarditis. :>p

  67. Walt O'Bruin says:

    I also still don’t “get” why it costs 4,000 bucks a month for a nursing home. You could do the Ritz Carlton for that with meals.

  68. Walt O'Bruin says:

    BTW, one of the magic tricks to dodging a lot of the more annoying aspects of being over sixty is to remember to drink enough fluids other than of the alcoholic variety. When you dehydrate, it is hard to think straight at any age, and you turn into a prune, again at any age. Simple stuff, but really important.

    It is also wrong to drop Vitamin A and iron from the diet as most doctors recommend now to seniors of both genders. Makes a HUGE difference, especially the non-beta kerotene variety.

  69. Walt O'Bruin says:

    Good news on the national US wind farm Gestapo’s attempt to jam their birdshredders on the masses!

    EDITORIAL: TIME RUNNING OUT FOR BIG WIND
    Thursday, September 23, 2010
    The wind lobby is ramping up its efforts to convince policymakers of the need to impose a federal renewable energy mandate that would guarantee a government-induced market share for wind energy companies.

    http://www.DownstreamToday.com/News/article.aspx?a_id=24117

  70. Walt O'Bruin says:

    This is what I wish would happen to the entire IPCC and the wind farmtards:

  71. But wait, there’s more!

    Scottish Carbon Capture and Storage has teamed up with University of Edinburgh’s chemistry department to come up with chemical uses for carbon dioxide.

    http://www.carboncapturejournal.com/displaynews.php?NewsID=618&PHPSESSID=dcfrensltuiv7d9lo6281pesd4

    Where’s my lawyer? LOL

    That’s Sir Humphrey Davies and Boyle territory, innit? I fink they’ll get the job doon, aye.

    The only bit is, it will shoot the biomass out of carbon credit trading. Every cracking tower is a hydrocarbon processing unit deriving economic benefit from complex carbon and hydrogen reactions. Think about it. Unless they sort out a nanomolecular labeling system which sez this co2 came from our peachy keen transformative inbooperator device while this identical molecule came from your standard petchem refinery, they’ll have to trash the entire scheme.

  72. More to the point, if greentards manufacture commercial products identical to conventionally produced commodities yet receive governmental subsidies to support this recycling activity, any petchem major can launch a simple anti-competitive state intervention complaint under RICO or the SEC rules governing same, thus slapping down thereby the whole deck of cards of the greentard financial agendum, wind farms, renewables, solar toys and all.

    …which may very well be why in full knowledge of this more work has not been done to examine these very opportunities. Elementary, my dear Watson.

    I’ve thought about it long and hard, conducted some seriously serious soul-searching, and have reached the conclusion that the mitten-shaped state called Michigan can reach out and jerk me off, Dr. Dave. I am sick of being intimidated by eerie monsters lurching at me out of the void of oblivion which is my Michigan past. It is a sh*t place to invest and try to live a life, it is a great place to get killed just stopping someone to ask for directions, and the nice kids I knew there who also grew up wondering what they did to deserve being born there are either dead or well out of there without looking back. Why academic performance is so high there is that people are afraid to go out of the house at night, and with good reason. I vote for “Red Dawn” as filmed in the ruins of Detroit recently to happen for real. If this happens, I will have the beef broccoli takeaway ready for the Red Chinese when they arrive.

  73. Dr. Dave says:

    Never Falter Walter Bear,

    I really think it’s impolite to our gracious Aussie hosts for a couple of Yanks to bitch and moan about a failed American city. I left Michigan over 30 years ago and I only return to visit family. Detroit is a sucking chest wound for that state. Once you get outside the greater Detroit area the State of Michigan is beautiful. Most of the state is farm country. On the bright side, the considerable political clout once wielded by Detroit has been diminished. Michigan will have a Republican Governor next year and most of its 16 House seats will be filled by Republicans. As soon as the opportunity presents, Senators Debbie “I feel global warming when I fly” Stabinow and Carl Levin will be retired. Alas, Dingell will continue to serve in the House even after he’s dead (which may be now for all I know). Michigan will heal and Detroit will morph into Cleveland and become irrelevant. What scares me is seeing what has happened to Detroit being replicated in other countries around the world.

    I’ve actually been around UAW folks a lot more than you presume. You’re right, in pure political terms most of them lean right. The trouble is that enlightened self-interest kicks in and they vote left (in league with their union). Union and socialist government group-think produces a very dangerous paradigm. Take retirement age as one example. We never had an “age of retirement” until FDR. He yanked this number from his nether regions in 1935. In 1935 (which is important to note, was before WWII) the average life expectancy in the US was 61 years (all races, both genders). FDR’s Social Security was designed to be available to all workers upon their retirement AFTER the age of 65 so “retirement age” became, by default, 65. Today the average life expectancy is nearly 80. In fact, if you live to be 75 the chances are very good that you’ll live to be at least 85. Yet most police officers, fire fighters, military officers, factory workers, plumbers, electricians, airline pilots and most physicians and lawyers retire by the age of 65. In truth, not many folks continue to work beyond the age of 70 (except politicians). Is this because they are incapable or is it because we’ve established a paradigm that says they’ve worked and contributed to society long enough? In 1935 those of age 65 and greater were considered “old”. In 2010 those of age 70 are considered “still young” but are expected to be retired. Then we have our “30 years” union pals and their negotiated pensions. We’ve established a paradigm where perfectly fit, well trained workers are retiring in their early 30s with a full pension.

    I ran into an old girlfriend of mine at my mother’s memorial service. We swapped stories about our families and friends. I asked about her brother who was 2 years older than me. Turns out he has been retired from GM since he was 52. He put in his “30” on the line and now draws 90% of his last working year salary…until he dies. Of course, this will be supplemented by Social Security once he turns 67. Why should he work?

    Recently there were riots in Paris over raising the age of retirement from 60 to 62. This is union entitlement mentality. Why don’t politicians retire at age 65? Why don’t ranchers and farmers retire at age 65? Why don’t AGW scientists hang up their guns at age 65? Because there’s still “work to be done”? Why, then, should everybody else? We in the West are creating a societal paradigm whereby we live off of Mom & Dad for 18 years, we spend a few years in school or apprenticeship, then do useful, productive work for about 30 years, then retire and expect to be taken care of until we die. Odd, because for most of human history our forefathers worked until they died.

    Hey no problem Dave and Walt, it’s a fascinating perspective from two people who’ve actually lived there. Do go on.

    There’s been a lot written and said about Detroit’s degradation in the wake of the GFC, and from what you’re saying it sounds like the labour unions deserve a large share of the blame for the demise of the auto industry. Re the retirement age, I said the same thing last month back here; why we have a retirement age at 65 when people can lead productive working lives (and pass on invaluable experience) much longer than that is beyond me – Oz

  74. Dr. Dave says:

    Excuse me…should be “retiring in their early 50s.

  75. Dr. Dave says:

    OzBoy,

    Ol’ Walt “the Vault” Bear and I look at business differently. I understand his perspective. I work in the health care business. When I create budgets I count every last dime. Every administrator’s or executive’s salary and benefits are part of the total. In fact, we budget everything from paperclips to toner cartridges, phones, utilities, travel…damn near everything. Every year there’s always something that blows the budget out of the water – drugs going generic or contract pricing on drugs going away, recruiting costs, cost of gasoline jumping up 40% (we travel a lot), license fee doubling, etc. The ONE area where we rarely deviate is labor. We know how many people we need and what everybody earns. Walt depends on unions to provide him with vital labor statistics and I’m sure this is crucial for his job.

    A dear friend of mine (coincidentally named Walt) is an electrician and a member of their union. He told me stories about working at the Cook nuclear plant. They would be wiring away and suddenly come to a pipe of joint that was not clearly part of the official blueprints. Instead of bending a piece of conduit and working around it, all work had to stop. These guys had to sit around doing nothing (but getting paid) while a new set of blueprints were created to incorporate any change that was necessary. They were contracted to perform this one, specific job so they couldn’t be utilized in any other capacity (this is classic “union”). I don’t mean to besmirch union members per se, but rather unions as an organization. There are guys who work manufacturing lines that know the machines they operate as well as anyone, but if one of them malfunctions the whole line has to stop. The operator is not allowed to affect a repair…even a quick, obvious 10 minute repair. Everyone has to sit idle while a member of a different union (or different job description) shows up and makes the repair.

    A friend of mine once owned a small manufacturing business. He employed about 40 people (including himself) and they made a product for a specific niche market. He wasn’t about to expand his market significantly because there was only so much worldwide demand for what they made. They made very high quality stuff and everyone who worked there had several different roles. They all did their own repair when possible. Everybody cleaned up their own work stations. Everyone helped with new stock and materials. Everyone participated in shipping when necessary. They ran a successful small business.

    A union representative visited the shop and met with my friend. According to his calculations all the employees needed more pay and he should have at least 60 employees for their level of productivity. From an employee’s perspective this sounds great. Increase the workforce by 50% (equals less work per person) and get paid more for doing less. My friend didn’t wait around for the employees to vote. He sold his business and got out while it was still profitable. The shop eventually went union under the new management and went out of business less than three years later. It became too expensive to produce their product even for a niche market they essentially “owned”. Somebody else could make something that would work for a lot less money.

    What can a labor union offer the worker? They can “collectively bargain” (i.e. extort) higher wages, more generous benefits, better working conditions and job protection. That’s about it. What does a union offer management (in essence, the “company”)? A work force that will strike if they don’t get what they want. There are no promises of greater productivity or greater efficiency. Unions only add a non-free market cost to the price of doing business. What happens when you hit that upper limit? At some point it’s ridiculous to pay manual labor $50/hr to tighten bolts, to give them 4-5 week of paid vacation, to offer extensive medical, dental and vision benefits and promise them a life-long pension if they stay on the job they can almost not be fired from for 30 years. At this point you can no longer compete. This is what happened to Detroit.

  76. Pointman says:

    You’re born somewhere and you grow up there. At some point, you stay or leave. I left. If you go back, it’s for one of two reasons – comfort or revenge. I went back for the latter but found out the place I went back to no longer existed as did the person who left it. That’s a trip.

    Pointman

  77. Dr. Dave says:

    Pointman,

    You make a good point, man. I graduated from high school in 1975. In my graduating class I only had about a half dozen good friends. Most of my friends at the time were a year or two older and a few were a year or two younger. Of these six only one stills lives in the old home town. Me…I’ll never go back. For one thing I find the climate obnoxious but more importantly I would feel like a political prisoner in Michigan.

    This is what I learned:

    Too true, guys. You either stay, or you go. Going back is pointless, ‘cos it’s changed, and you’ve changed. In my experience, it really only works for people who never grew up, have no desire to, and view their past through rose-coloured glasses – Oz

  78. Dr. Dave says:

    Well…as long as we’re waxing nostalgic, let me offer this:

    Damn, that’s good. See ya at the juke box – Oz

  79. Dr. Dave says:

    OzBoy,

    If you liked that you might appreciate this. What I find stunning is that this song is 40 years old (and I still have the original version on vinyl):

  80. Amanda says:

    Pointman: ‘You’re born somwhere and you grow up there’.

    Nice that you had the luxury (though perhaps not, since you speak of revenge). I was born somewhere — London — then my parents moved to Sussex, to the village opposite Jack and Jill, the Victorian windmills on a hill. Then (for reasons of economic duress) they moved us abroad — first to Qatar, then after a brief return, to Canada. I never could really love Canada, and I missed England and our family there terribly. (No one asked me what I would have preferred.) Went back to the village in Sussex after 3o years and was taking pictures of everything. Amusing to the locals: but then I suppose they don’t know what it feels like to be an exile.

    A human life, I think, should be well rooted in some spot of a native land, where it may get the love of tender kinship for the face of the earth, for the labours men go forth to, for the sounds and accents that haunt it, for whatever will give that early home a familiar unmistakable difference amidst the future widening of knowledge. The best introduction to astronomy is to think of the nightly heavens as a little lot of stars belonging to one’s own homestead. —George Eliot

  81. Amanda says:

    Yes, Dave, but you do know don’t you that the best work of the Dead was always the live performances, the experimentations? They themselves said so. And it’s borne out by the record. Literally.

  82. Amanda says:

    Oz: do give a prize for the 10,000th comment! We’re always going on about prizes on Delingpole’s. (Actually I think it was me that started it.) But of course we’ve never had anyway. But it could be fun!

    I’ll try to think up something appropriate, Amanda. Suggestions that won’t bankrupt me are welcome – Oz

  83. Amanda says:

    That should have been ‘never had any’. Brain must be on autopilot. Goodnight.

  84. Dr. Dave says:

    OzBoy,

    I like Amanda’s idea. I would make it a small jar of Vegemite shipped anywhere in the world. God…I hope I don’t win.

  85. Dr. Dave says:

    Amanda, my dear, I have been a devoted Deadhead since I was 13 years old. That gives me 40 years of leeway. I’m well aware of the prowess the Dead have displayed in live performances. I fear too little acclaim has been given to their truly stellar studio offerings. I f you listen to these carefully you will find that the Dead were one of the “tightest” bands ever to exist. Drummer Micky Hart has remastered Workingman’s Dead and American Beauty into 5.1 digital DVD audio. The result is jaw dropping. These were some of my favorite songs when I was growing up (and then growing old). To hear them in true 5.1 surround sound is like hearing them for the first time. Check it out and get back to me.

  86. Ozboy for prizes I suggest toenail clippings or removed nasal hair with a proviso no cloning.

    Well perhaps you’re on to something there Crown.

    OK then folks, who’s the donor and which body parts? Remember the Bar and Grill is a family establishment – Oz

  87. Amerloque says:

    Hello Everyone !

    World governance took a significant step forward yesterday (Friday 20100924), unfortunately:

    “Europe agrees to create marine protected areas

    (AFP) – 13 hours ago

    OSLO — European countries agreed Friday to create six protected marine areas in the northeast Atlantic in a bid to step up the protection of the region’s environment.

    The decision was taken at a meeting in the southwestern Norwegian city of Bergen of the OSPAR Commission, a body through which 15 regional countries, along with the European Union, work to protect the environment of the northeast Atlantic.

    They defined six zones or marine protected areas (MPAs) over a total area of 185,000 square kilometres (71,400 square miles) where human activity should be limited.

    These zones comprise “a range of vulnerable deep-sea habitats and species”, the OSPAR Commission said in a statement, adding that it wanted to create “a precedent” worldwide.

    “This moment is historic, it is a world first,” French Ecology and Marine Affairs Minister Jean-Louis Borloo said in a statement.

    “We are going to show that we are finally capable of protecting oceans in their entirety and not be closed in by our legal limits,” he said in a statement.

    However the environmental group Oceana criticised European governments for pushing back the creation of the MPAs to 2012, when they were obligated to do so this year under international law, and for still only having a third of the protected areas needed.

    Oceana said the six new areas will take the total MPAs to 165, but that will make up “less than three percent of the marine surface area of the northeast Atlantic OSPAR region, and significantly less than the 10 percent minimum required by the UN Convention on Biological Diversity”. …/…”

    http://tinyurl.com/3y7wvrs

    “not be closed in by our legal limits” ?!

    Whatever happened to “international waters” ?

    Best,
    L’Amerloque

    G’day, mon ami. You of all people know that Europe never agrees, it decrees.

    À demain – Oz

  88. fenbeagle says:

    Locusts
    I think population is only a problem if there is a shortage of space. Which there clearly isn’t, as space seems to be something we have lots of. But this particular planet, if viewed as a space ‘ship’, must have an upper limit on how many people it can accommodate? The instructions should really have come with the manufacturers handbook. Along with useful advise about passengers destructive behaviour, and the plans and instructions for the heating and air conditioning etc. Its probably in the glove compartment, if we knew where the glove compartment was? When the ice all melts from Greenland we will probably find it there, along with the service record book (not filled in) spare keys, and a packet of polo’s.
    I think myself that people aren’t a problem in themselves. (Although a growing people shortage would be.) But the problem is a lack of ‘boldly going’ at the moment. Since the discovery of the America’s, (and some other places.) Which solved the problem last time…..although it turned out, the problem could also be solved by improvements in technology, farming etc. We now seemed to have stalled, and almost completely run out of ‘boldy go’.
    Worse than that, many people in the ‘Western world’ seem to want to restrict industry, and turn away from technology. Favouring, instead, a return to older technology (Windmills, for instance) Cutting back on energy usage, and production.
    If this new western ‘wisdom’ prevents us from making progress ‘off planet’ And the population continues to increase, then I suppose it would follow that the upper limit for spaceship Earth passenger numbers becomes an issue too.
    I guess it should be limited to ticket holders only (do you have a ticket?)
    I have an artists licence and a dog collar.

  89. Pointman says:

    We’re on rock three and we’re concentrated on less than 5% of its surface. There’s lots more rocks (and moons) in our solar system. It’s part of a spiral galaxy called the Milky Way. That has about 200 billion stars. If we get tired of the Milky Way, we can try moving to another galaxy. There’s a bit of a scarcity on that front, there’s only about a 100 billion of them. “Length it had and breath, and there was depth beyond comprehension”.

    There’s lots of room in the neighbourhood.

    Pointman

  90. NoIdea says:

    From
    http://www.bilderbergmeetings.org/meeting_2010.html

    “The 58th Bilderberg Meeting will be held in Sitges, Spain 3 – 6 June 2010. The Conference will deal mainly with Financial Reform, Security, Cyber Technology, Energy, Pakistan, Afghanistan, World Food Problem, Global Cooling, Social Networking, Medical Science, EU-US relations.”

    Yes, Global Cooling, not warming or change or disruption.

    Social Networking, do they mean us?

    Holy paradigm shift Batman! (smacks fist into palm)

    I’m alerting JD to this one (you get the hat tip NI) – Oz 😉

    NoIdea

  91. Amerloque says:

    Hi Ozboy !
    On September 25, 2010 at 7:59 pm

    /// I’m alerting JD to this one (you get the hat tip NI) – Oz ///

    I would have no fear on that score, if I might make so bold (Hi NoIdea !)(grin): my feeling is that JD and other DT columnists are watching this blog very carefully … it’s the perfect “feeder” blog ! (grin) As you pointed out more politely elsewhere: “symbiosis”. (grin)

    /// You of all people know that Europe never agrees, it decrees.///

    (grin)

    The business about “not be closed in by our legal limits” is worrying indeed !

    (frown)

    Best,
    L’Amerloque

  92. Pointman says:

    “The Sun joins the climate club”

    http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20727793.100-the-sun-joins-the-climate-club.html

    More repositioning and by the New Scientist of all people. Never mind your Napalm in the morning, smell the church of climatology burning …

    Pointman

  93. Amerloque says:

    Hi Pointman !

    “THE idea that changes in the sun’s activity can influence the climate is making a comeback, after years of scientific vilification, thanks to major advances in our understanding of the atmosphere. …/…”

    Ya just gotta love the two-facedness of it. (grin)

    Those responsible for the “vilification” appear to have been scaremongering neo-pastoralist airheaded climate crooks , not “scientists” !

    Best,
    L’Amerloque

  94. Amerloque says:

    Hello NoIdea !
    September 25, 2010 at 7:59 pm

    ///”Social Networking”

    Social Networking, do they mean us?///

    Yes. It’s a euphemism.

    What they mean is “freedom of speech”. Of course, they could mean “unfettered internet” or “freedom of association” or “individual “responsible internet use (aka “censorship”) or “individual freedom”.

    Somehow I doubt whether they mean “Facebook” or “Twitter”. (sigh)

    Best,
    L’Amerloque

  95. Amerloque says:

    That should’ve been:

    “unfettered internet” or “freedom of association” or “responsible internet use” (aka “censorship”) or “individual freedom”.

    Sorry.

  96. Pointman says:

    Amerloque says:
    September 25, 2010 at 9:47 pm

    It was always obvious, even to a chimp in a hurry but not to the high priests of Climatology apparently. I notice the piece isn’t a complete recantation, rather a sideways step in the right direction. Like the Pols, the journals can’t do a 180 too quickly, rather a sedate decorum must be observed …

    Pointman

  97. Pointman says:

    Just for a change, we’ll steal something from the GE’s blog.

    O/T but funny extract from Blair’s new book:

    ‘I had regularly started jogging out of Downing Street.
    On each run I happened to jog past a hooker standing on the same
    street corner, day after day.

    With some apprehension I would brace myself as
    I approached her for what was most certainly to follow.

    “Fifty quid!” she would shout from the kerb.

    “No way, 50p!” I fired back..

    This ritual between myself and the hooker continued for days.

    I’d run by and she’d yell, “Fifty quid!”

    And I’d yell back “50p!”

    One day however Cherie decided that she wanted to accompany me on my jog.

    As we jogged nearer the problematic street corner, I realised the “pro” would
    bark her £50 offer and Cherie would wonder what I’d really
    been doing on all my past outings.

    I realised I’d need to have a damn good explanation for my
    illustrious lawyer wife.

    As we jogged into the turn that would take them past the
    corner, I became even more apprehensive than usual.

    Sure enough, there was the hooker.

    I tried to avoid the prostitute’s eyes as she watched the pair of us jog past.

    Then, from the pavement, the hooker yelled,

    “See what you get for 50p?”

    H/T ScouseBilly.

    Pointman

  98. Old Toad says:

    Ozboy. Before I add to my carbon footprint by jetting off to the Balkans (thanks for your good wishes by the way), I’m pleased you feel that the best blog ripostes should be preserved or at least repeated. Some ‘lurkers’ suddenly burst into song with really good material and they deserve recognition before everything is engulfed in troll-shit once again.
    Re Monbiot, he does always come back from his ‘black-dog’ lapses but he certainly loses a chunk of credibility each time.
    The current Graun posts lack credibility or enthusiasm, and a number of George’s old stalwarts seem to have lost interest, with ‘denialists’ getting the most ‘recommends’.
    The Moonbat has started too many fights lately which he was never going to win. North and Montford are not to be trifled with.

  99. Pointman says:

    If I’d a dime for every time I’d been asked if I was a scientist because only a scientist could decide if climate alarmism was just that or not, I’d be a millionaire. My standard reply is always; You have to be a scientist to spot a scam then?

    Scamming is an inventive past time but scamming a scammer is high art. Enjoy

    http://www.scamorama.com/tossov_kjohnson.html

    Pointman

  100. Old Toad says:

    BTW. What a shame the mods removed Monbiot’s little cameo appearance, when he flitted in using his ‘freewales’ alter ego, to tell James either to stick his head up his a.se or to tell him to take it out. I’m sure it was at that juncture that James knew his point had struck home !

  101. Pointman says:

    Old Toad says:
    September 25, 2010 at 11:40 pm

    Ah, one of those precious moments when you realise he was worth all that time and effort. That’s my boy.

    Pointman

  102. manonthemoor says:

    I note that JD has picked up on the NI/ Bilderberg comment and I repeat part of my comment from the top of this blog:-

    //So far the opposition in favour of AGW have been unable to counter the ‘internet effect’ and this may be our weakest point, but short of shutting the internet down hopefully it is too late for an effective counter attack.//

    The internet has the power of communication and instant reaction to events which traditional methods cannot match. We are free thinkers with reasoning and technical support, we are demolishing the credibility of renewable energy and at the same time emphasizing the need for nuclear and particularly thorium developments.

    Carbon capture is a farce, electric cars are a farce, can we afford to wait for the lights to go out before taking action. Even now our government should be negotiating an extension to the use of existing nuclear plant as I believe Germany has already done.

    Just like Trident there seems no real reason why the life of coal generation cannot be extended as well. All credit to Walt who has repeatedly identified alternative uses for CO2.

    The problem is not just bad science nor is it technical, the problem remains political and financial — loss of face for both.

    As pointman identified a 180 degree turn will not happen just a slow turn by the MSM, politicians and money suits pretending it was their intention all along.

  103. Amerloque says:

    “…And I say to my people’s masters: Beware
    Beware of the thing that is coming, beware of the risen people
    Who shall take what ye would not give.
    Did ye think to conquer the people, or that Law is stronger than life,
    And than men’s desire to be free?
    We will try it out with you ye that have harried and held,
    Ye that have bullied and bribed.
    Tyrants… hypocrites… liars!…”

    – – – Pádraic H. Pearse, in “The Rebel”

  104. Walt O'Bruin says:

    Thanks, MOTM. The reason the “scientific” and AGW crowd have been successfully discouraging explorations of and forming of joint partnerships with the industrial community which solved for the sole purpose of economic gain the issues associated with monetizing carbon dioxide is simple, from a purely human standpoint. The moment everyone agrees in earnest that we can make money from CO2 on a competitively commercial basis some wisearse like me is going to stand up and say, “So fine. Then someone please tell me why government and taxpayer subsidies are needed for any of this alternative energy/carbon dioxide recycling development.” The answer, inevitably, will be “We don’t.” That being the case, it follows that ergo there is no need or use or utility to the AGW Trotskyite-presumed restructuring of societal control mechanisms upon which they are moving to seize control any other way than constitutionally and by elective and constituent-reviewed procedure.

    The real argument at core, as I see it, is not about AGW, societal manipulation, union versus non-union, or best available technologies for making power. It is about how we structure our industrial economies optimally for the most good for the maximum number of disparate self-interested and independent constituent bodies and groups.

    Predictably, and regardless of how often the probem recurs to be solved yet again, there is at present no Institute for Optimising Industrial Organization, at least in the States. We have bits and pieces, but there is nothing like Quebec’s QERI which exists for the sole purpose of full cycle costing and impact of industrial activity within the province, to include what happens to a city when its main plant moves to Borneo, what impact will de-industrialization have on a formerly industrial community, how to plan for such transitions, what governmental organizational scheme is best suited for adaptability to change while preserving optimum individual autonomy and freedoms, and how can the aspirations of the workforce be compelled to match the responsibilities of management to the shareholder and the markets the industrial enterprise serves.

    For all of the above there IS no political solution, and the closest politics ever comes to addressing these issues is in the nuts and bolts of infrastructure-serving entities like American style county governments. The main element of all of the above is tried-and-true standards traceable engineering practice combined with constituent-driven (public-hearing-driven) urban planning and infrastructure contracting. As the classic case in point, Mayor Cavanaugh of Detroit in 1966 knew Detroit was going to go broke totally by 1980. Wayne State’s Constantinos Doxiadis, one of the founding fathers of modern WORKING urban planning and co-author along with Buckminster Fuller and Dr. Bruno Leon, AIA, of the University of Detroit, of practical applications of central-place theory and applied geodesics, laid it all out in black and white on an ad hoc committee basis paid for by the Ford Foundation. They had a model for breaking the city down into boroughs like NYC with independent bodies like UK town councils with independent planning authority, independent industrial development commissions, the whole nine yards, in preparation for the minimum 25% Big Three ownership firms of Honda, Toyota, Mazda and Mitsubishi making their move on the US market (WW II trivia: the US Army of Occupation in Japan put US Army officers with engineering degrees in charge of Japanese industry to aid in its rebuilding. After the war, that ownership position never ended, it was simply “civilianized.” The transfer of American automotive industries to service development objectives in the defeated countries were Step One in the de-industrialization of the West, ostensibly to buy peace, but also to enrich the Army elite of our nation. Toyota being a power here in the automotive industry was a done deal by 1950, from a planning standpoint, and on the drawing boards here in America, by OUR design).

    Had this ad hoc QERI had any voice, riot or no riot, there would still be a Detroit.

    Was and is this “state planning” after the Stalin model? No. It was a strategy to adapt to changing market conditions which in no way undermined individual sovereignty. Dr. Bruno was a decorated OSS operative with more horrible stories to tell than Samuel Beckett, who did the same sort of deeds for the SOE.

    So instead we now have only the Reds here in AGW at the helm of presenting any form of design at all for moving forward (or in their case, backward into medievalism. At the same time, it is farcical and dishonest to even suggest that industrial organization along 1930’s lines were opposed when WW II seemed inevitable by around 1936 for us in the States by the Republicans and the other elements of the Right. The most avid promoter of union structure was a self-admitted quasi-fascist and anti-semite named James Forrestal of the Industrial War Board: he needed the predictability of workhour allocation by defined task, the predictable cycle times for production, and the concomitant cost controls which are now the cornerstone of today’s military production juggernaut which we inevitably will need again. That the unions do not deliver according to the same paradigm is entirely a function of intermittently enforced and overly self-interested leadership on all fronts today, including the leadership of the unions themselves; the important thing to note is that the Canadian unions still keep to the model, as they have the QERI’s, the industrial planning organizations to make their economy work.

    AGW is therefore not about AGW at all: it is a quasi-mystical fascist, national socialist movement (definition: the private sector owns the means of production but the State is the prime customer) looking to fill a void of our own making in that as members of the conservative and anti-collectivist right, we have not delivered the goods in the form of a practical vision which addresses and lists the options from which the constituency may choose in crafting the world they desire. The right ergo has surrendered leadership to national socialism of most basic, precisely defined and gut-level form.

    Any machinist or welder in 1935 could have sorted this out, if they had a high school diploma of the quality that was available to all then. College educated on a masters and PhD level cannot sort this out now, unless they are Chinese or Indian immigrants. No one anymore with any US county economic development organization even cycle costs from the first shovel in to the time of the plant shutdown the impact a new factory has on a community. They are too busy sorting out their kickbacks and where to get the best nose candy.

  105. Walt O'Bruin says:

    What I am saying is, what happens AFTER we drive the last stake into the last AGW vampire’s heart? It’s too late for countervailing tariffs and immigration controls, unless in the case of the latter, the military draft for ALL, including women, is re-introduced?

  106. Walt O'Bruin says:

    Instead of plotting to murder bankers I humbly submit the IRA consider forming a QERI type think tank on their own nickel and renting their expertise out in setting industrial problems right, if they think they have the answers. People in boxes don’t pay taxes, and they don’t make industrial enterprise loans.

    Half the problem is people being too comfortable with the Big Fix In. I’d like to see today’s 12 to 14 year olds shlepping hot rivets through bridge girders to riveters 150 feet up from the water. I cannot even imagine it, except in India or China. Time to get real.

  107. Walt O'Bruin says:

    The really BIG thing I see happening is hundreds of pension funds going broke when the free money tap is turned off when alternative energy projects either have to demonstrate their economic viability without benefit of government subsidies or fold.

  108. Ozboy says:

    G’day folks,

    Just received an e-mail from JD, assuring us his Bilderberg thread is coming soon.

    What I’ll do is, create a new thread to parallel it, so more detailed debate can go on here simultaneously while the trolls throw their insults around at the DT. I’ll hold off publishing it till James does his, to avoid pre-empting him.

    Should be fun!

  109. Hi, OzBoy,

    Here’s a short piece of what the US government’s own Bilderberg’s thinking is, apparently ( from http://www.coalblog.org ) These beggars want to do to us what Churchill recommended we do to the jerries after WW II. Pity he couldn’t follow through!

    QUOTE

    “De-develop” the United States?
    Posted in September 18, 2010 ¬ 1:06 pm.Jason Hayes

    Interesting quotes being attributed to John P. Holdren, White House Science & Technology Director. Apparently Holdren wrote the following in his 1973 book, “Human Ecology: Problems and Solutions” (co-authored with environmental activists Paul and Anne Ehrlich).

    “Resources must be diverted from frivolous and wasteful uses in overdeveloped countries to filling the genuine needs of underdeveloped countries. This effort must be largely political, especially with regard to our overexploitation of world resources, but the campaign should be strongly supplemented by legal and boycott action against polluters and others whose activities damage the environment. The need for de-development presents our economists with a major challenge. They must design a stable, low-consumption economy in which there is a much more equitable distribution of wealth than in the present one. Redistribution of wealth both within and among nations is absolutely essential, if a decent life is to be provided for every human being.”

    While Holdren now claims this is a “stale topic,” it is still reasonable — especially at the tail end of a worldwide depression and while the energy industry awaits final decisions on cap & trade legislation, the imposition of state and national renewable portfolio standards, EPA-driven GHG and coal ash regulations, Clean Water Act-related mine permitting issue in the CAPP region, implementation of the Transport Rule (to replace CAIR), implementation of MACT rules on industrial and power generation boilers, moratoriums on off-shore oil drilling (while US-based loan guarantees are being signed for drilling in other countries), along with a host of other related issues — to question how much influence this allegedly “stale” mindset still has on current energy policy.

    More on Holdren’s stated positions, interviews, and writings at JoNova.

    Update: Holdren also co-authored another book, title Ecoscience with Paul and Anne Ehrlich. This book has some profoundly disturbing policy suggestions on how to deal with perceived environmental and energy issues.

    LINKS:
    Cap & Trade, Environment, Government resources, Marketplace Information, Policy, Power Generation, USA, Utilities de-develop, energy, Environment, Holdren, low-consumption, overexploitation, redistribution

    END QUOTE

  110. Walt O’Bruin these bridges the Indians build would they be the kind that fall down.

  111. Pointman says:

    Ozboy says:
    September 26, 2010 at 8:35 am

    You’re the man and about fuck*** time we did it.

    Pointman

  112. Pointman says:

    crownarmourer says:
    September 26, 2010 at 9:09 am

    In your own way, you’re unique or is this a wasted post …

    Pointman

  113. Pointman I forgot the Ozboy blog is your own personal blog just for you and whom you deem worthy, you sure your not a Democrat in the Obama White House.

  114. Pointman since you do read the news…. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newsvideo/8015913/India-Commonwealth-Games-footbridge-collapse-in-Delhi.html
    Walt made a point about Indian or Chinese engineers well this what they can do.

    It isn’t big news in the States, but the unfolding Commonwealth Games disaster has been in the headlines down here for weeks. Turns out India only got the Games in the first place by offering large backhanders to the poorer voting nations. And to compound matters, the Commonwealth Games Federation only has five full-time employees checking on milestone completion (compare with over 400 at the IOC). Walt can tell you where that kind of project management regime will get you.

    And please folks, I’m expecting LibertyGibbert will get really busy in a day or so (a la Low Carbon Plot), so I need all my regulars to be on their best behaviour, OK? We do want to be taken seriously – Oz

  115. crownarmourer says:
    September 26, 2010 at 9:09 am

    Well, the Blue Water Bridge in Michigan almost did during construction, a couple of times, when fully loaded with workcrews. That was 1929-1930. The final product didn’t however, and a second was built alongside it.

    I don’t want the States to be like India, but they are upwardly driven, while we are here with our tail between our legs doing everything in every else’s best interests but our own. That’s the point of the post. India is not waiting for the government to do something for them. For all the economic disaster the States are now, in effect nothing has been done to alleviate it, and the electorate just click the remote and go back to watching cartoons.

    On the other hand, I’m up for a lemon meringue pie fight anytime anyone else is.

  116. Lemon meringue bear….. my favourite line.

    Funny, according to this IMDB Trivia, Dr Strangelove when first filmed actually ended in a pie fight, but had to be cut due to the close parallels with JFK’s assassination, with which post-production coincided – Oz

  117. Except Gerry Ford from Grand Rapids ended the Viet Nam conflict, and if he hadn’t, I wouldn’t be here. You’ve no idea the big push Nixon had in mind after Operation Linebacker II.

  118. I’d also meant IREQ, not QERI before LOL This is the approach to energy research we need, not strictly academic hogwash.

  119. Lemon Meringue Pie Bear what was Nixon’s big push against the North Vietnamese or against the hippy’s?

  120. Crown, you’re not far off. We were this close to getting a formalized DHS 25 years earlier, and one entirely politicized, but I digress.

    There was to have been a combined offensive on the North which would have consisted half of amphibious ferrying of troops to the North to …you guessed it…Hanoi and Haiphong and half overland with the DMZ being the start point.

  121. Lemon Meringue Pie Bear well from your point of view glad it never happened but what a novel concept taking the fight to the enemy, so they would be too busy defending the home turf to concentrate on any offensives. Would have worked but with heavy casualty’s, until the Chinese went into to defend there fellow communists and then WWIII.

  122. I also neglected to mention that Mr. Nixon’s visit to China was to arrange also with Red China an invasion from their side of the fence simultaneously. They wanted the Meking oil too.

    Red China tried on the Vietnamese for size after we pulled out, and they had even worse luck than we did LOL

    Conoco-Philips is now lead contractor for Viet Nam’s oil and natural gas extraction activities.

  123. Amanda says:

    Pointman: It’s not just that you don’t have to be a scientist to spot a scam — it’s that scientists often can’t because they’re already sold on the premise that the scam is built upon.

  124. Amanda says:

    Oz: re the prize. How about some little thing that represents Tasmania? If I were in Canada I’d send some maple syrup candy (in the form of a maple leaf or an Indian or some such). If you do a prize I’ll make another contribution to the Donate button.

  125. Amanda says:

    Crown: The removed nasal hair only qualifies if it’s plaited and secured with a ribbon, suitable for inclusion in a memento locket.

    If you’re going to do it, do it right, I say!

  126. Amanda I apologize where are my manners of course you are correct as always.

  127. Lemon meringue Pie Bear good point the missus always said the real reason for the whole Vietnam was about natural resources. She said they have lots of stuff everyone has always wanted. The oil clinches it.

  128. Locusts says:

    Fenbeagle

    In that book I mentioned, the population of the Earth were too scared to go explore the universe. There is a novel by Arthur C. Clarke on a similar theme called the City and the Stars. I don’t think we have lost our wanderlust, though I bet it is pretty hard to find it at an all night backpacker party in Goa, there are just less places to go than before, no Terra Incognita, the entire physical world is parceled in to different coloured shapes on the map. But the human world is still there. I’ve been out drinking with some English students recently, all came from fairly mundane jobs, and took the plunge to come over to China. The look of awe and wonder on their faces, and listening to them describe the thought processes that made them decide to choose such a difficult language, although the physical challenges today are not the same as those before, the mental ones are still there, if a little watered down with western beer and foreign friends.

    I doubt that we would have such a romantic view of the colonization of the Americas if we went over there with modern technology. It was failures like Roanoke that illustrate the difficulty of those times. If I were to colonize a new area, I’d rather be on the Jamestown ship than the Roanoke one.

    Pointman is right, it’s a big Milky Way out there, and I bet, that owing to this period of enforced captivity, once we do have the chance to spill out on to it, we’ll be all the more eager to do so.

    However, benefits for unemployment etc, I think, have to go, or at least be restructured. I remember not being able to sign on for a brief stint after university, it would have taken me far too long to figure out the system. After the investment of that amount of effort, I would have probably have decided to have a lie down for a few months just to recharge the batteries. It was easier (for me) to leave England; but probably not for others. What is foreign and exciting to those back home (China), is mundane and second nature to me.

    Overpopulation, nobody can make their minds up. We are either fighting our need to procreate, or the inverted “death” population pyramid caused by baby boomers having few babies. The West seems to think that overpopulation is the lesser evil of the two, as immigration has normalized our inverted death pyramids.

  129. Locusts says:

    Ozboy, prize idea,

    Four skinned zipper fish?

    I’m rather busy at the moment, so the odds are against me that I’ll make the winning post…

  130. Locusts says:

    And just to prove that the lust for adventure and challenges has not gone, here is a story of a woman who challenged herself to not wear make-up for an entire week.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1314410/Beyond-pale–sheer-hell-spending-week-wearing-make-up.html

  131. Pointman says:

    crownarmourer says:
    September 26, 2010 at 10:23 am

    Amazingly, you’re right or as you’d write, your right …

    Pointman

  132. Funny, according to this IMDB Trivia, Dr Strangelove when first filmed actually ended in a pie fight, but had to be cut due to the close parallels with JFK’s assassination, with which post-production coincided – Oz

    No biggie, I put up with the occurrence of 3-4 eerie coincidences and/or premonitions and/or deja vu events a day. We’ve experienced the Weird World of Walt on this blogspace on the WWW at least 20-30 times since you started this blogspace. NI can pretty much rattle off the inventory of events. I don’t keep track anymore.

    It’s been that way for decades. I don’t know what to do about it. Worse, I don’t know what it means. Maybe I should make a funny outfit, invent a liturgy and canon, then start a religion. You’d think I would have sorted out how to win the lottery 20 times in a row by now.

    The only time it got to be a nuisance was getting canned from a contract because my super would call me at exactly the same time I would call her, the line would be busy, another button would light up then we would pick up. After 8 or 9 times, I was off the project. She thought I was messing with her. How? She was 2,500 miles away.

    Parnelli Nelson my Orthodox biz mentor teases me about it, as there is a formal term for it in Judaism which means “seeing from afar.” It’s fairly routine amongst yeshiva students.

    Big Sis is the real megillah, one grey eye, one green. Most ruthless biz person I have ever met. She could make Darth Vader burst into tears. She could make Hairy Pothead break his other wand over his knee in frustration. Raised a couple of really good kids, though, from what I understand.

  133. crownarmourer says:
    September 26, 2010 at 2:39 pm

    Has been for the last 500 years. Captain Kangaroo could have sorted everything out over milk and cookies at the kitchen table. Why ask why. The Creator would quit if he could find another job.

    Which reminds me, I re-posted Saint Bearabus not out of religious militancy, but because I seem to be the only person who sees that the while churches are amongst the major investors in green pension portfolios, the entire AGW routine is based entirely on Judeo-Christian blasphemy, to wit, not believing in the promise of the rainbow, to include the carbon trading fraud. It’s as stoopid as the Archbishop of Canterbury bankrolling Al Queda, which he may possibly be doing, too, knowing this day and age.

  134. Amerloque says:

    Hello Locusts !
    On September 26, 2010 at 4:35 pm

    First of all, thank you for writing your excellent vignettes of China ! They are a real pleasure to read and I look forward to more of them !

    /// Overpopulation, nobody can make their minds up. We are either fighting our need to procreate, or the inverted “death” population pyramid caused by baby boomers having few babies. The West seems to think that overpopulation is the lesser evil of the two, as immigration has normalized our inverted death pyramids. ///

    Anyway … years ago (>35, right about the time of the “Club of Rome”), Amerloque had a sequence of discussions with one of the at-that-time over-eighty-year-old movers and shakers, who was more particularly involved with international whaling issues. He was one of the more intellectually honest ones. (He was a very nice fellow, an accomplished polyglot who was fluent many languages: I never forget the time we went to a Chinese restaurant here and he ordered in Chinese … the following evening we went to an Indian restaurant and he ordered in Hindi … you get the idea …), The question of baby boomers and children and overpopulation came up, since Erlich’s “Population Bomb” had been published several years previously; it was quickly considered a “must-read” for anyone involved in politics at the time, as a thorough grounding for the full admittance of the reader into the sacred halls inhabited by a rapidly-growing legion of “environmental activists”. (grin)

    What seemed ironic was that Erlich looked at the “population problem” primarily as an issue of dwindling resources, rather than situating it within a broader, clearly reasoned sociopolitical context. This was astonishing to Amerloque, as Erlich and the CoR honcho both tally-ho about social engineering, apparently hadn’t carried their reasoning, cherrypicked as it was, to one of its possible conclusions. They were hidebound by socialist doctrine(s), by leftist received-wisdom positions that when questioned could not expand or evolve to fit new circumstances. (An example would be reliance on Karl Marx as the fount of communist wisdom. He posited that communism would spring forth, in all its “magnificent glory”, in an industrial society … yet the first large-scale, “successful communist revolution” came about in the agrarian society that was Czarist Russia …).

    At the time it seemed crystal-clear to Amerloque that two things would happen:

    a) baby boomers would be having fewer children simply because the traditional attributes of “children” were changing. One or two hundred years ago, kids were important to their parents because their parents expected the children to care for them when they, the parents, were too old to work. Remember “Honor thy father and thy mother” ? Retirement plans, a “new” concept introduced as the ideas inherent to capitalism advanced beyond the simple survival of the fittest” mode due partially to huge advances in productivity, came along. The parent could stop working and his/her needs could/would be met by “retirement money”. So why have kids if one has provided for retirement ? The corollary is that putting an end to or severely curtailing the retirement phase of an individual’s life would undoubtedly cause the birthrate to climb precipitously. However, the latter idea was counterintuitive. It conflicted with the idea(s) of social justice, as practiced by the left. It didn’t happen back then, and from what Amerloque sees and hears, it won’t be happening any time soon, at least voluntarily.

    b) one could stop families in the Third World from having innumerable kids and, perhaps even put a stop at the same time to the massive immigration that was looming on the horizon even then. How ? By financing extensive retirement systems in the Third World. Perhaps linking them to birth control. Perhaps financing could be handled by the West, and imposing birth control by the local government. Perhaps basing birth controls on educational attainment. There are all kinds of possibilities. Amerloque is not naïve: it won’t be happening any time soon – hell, from what Amerloque hears and sees, such a solution is not even on the table – at least publicly.

    The paragraphs above are designed to clearly demonstrate just how nefarious the population culls implicit in AGW propositions advanced by catastrophist self-selected earth warrior con artists are. They do not pretend to be exhaustive, or even easily feasible, or, perhaps, even desirable. Yet they seem to be publicly absent from leftist discourse (corrections welcome !). (grin)

    Best,
    L’Amerloque

  135. The most annoying thing about any religion is religionists don’t care what you think and feel, all they care about is that you think and feel as they do so hopefully they can get 10 or 15% of your gross income. Plus no one likes anyone else telling you what to think when they do not confront the problems you do, either specifically or in the general, and more pointedly, as they say in New York, they don’t pay your bills. Or otherwise put,

    I got all kinds of problems
    and you can’t help me out
    so take your cosmic voodoo
    and ram it up your snout

    As Frank Zappa said.

    Anyway, that’s it for Sunday school.

    If you are doing something on the carbon fraud, and more importantly, JD, I wish someone would actually sit down with a real honest to Pete NASD-registered emissions trader and bounce the article/blog idea off them. You get sick of arguments over pixie dust-level handling of issues when the Real Deal is what is actually wrong, and no one wants to talk with anyone about the Real Deal, especially if they are journalists.

    Evan Ard at http://www.evomarkets.com will talk your ear off on the subject, and he’s been a trader since Methuselah was a private. Corinne Boone at http://www.co2e.com will do the same. http://www.co2e.com has a London office and one in Oz. They de facto handled the first carbon trades for BP with Lord Browne’s pence in 1996 or so.

  136. rastech says:

    NoIdea:>“The 58th Bilderberg Meeting will be held in Sitges, Spain 3 – 6 June 2010. The Conference will deal mainly with Financial Reform, Security, Cyber Technology, Energy, Pakistan, Afghanistan, World Food Problem, Global Cooling, Social Networking, Medical Science, EU-US relations.”<

    Imentioned this at the time.

    Even 'more' interesting, than the Global Cooling, was indeed the 'Social Networking' and 'Medical Science' given a couple of the attendees.

    There's a 'Common Purpose' type link with attempted Social Engineering there, as far as I can tell.

    I'll see if I can dig up the particularly interesting attendee(s) again.

  137. These firms have whole communications departments set up for no other reason but to get a word in edgeways, and THEY don’t like fraudsters either. 99 times out of 100, THEY are the ones who bust the fraudsters in the first place.

  138. rastech says:

    Here we go: “GBR Oldham, John National Clinical Lead for Quality and Productivity ”

    http://www.dh.gov.uk/en/Healthcare/Qualityandproductivity/DH_112316
    “John is a GP and also an expert member of the National Quality Board. He has led national programmes before in the UK and overseas, most notably the national primary care collaborative in the late 90s which led to major improvements in GP waiting times and cardiac care in primary care. John will lead work to shape and run national clinical work programmes and at first will concentrate on long term conditions, urgent care and integration of care between health and social care.”

    http://www.nationalcareforum.org.uk/aboutus.asp

    Interesting names and job descriptions on some of these links, for example:

    http://www.nhsconfed.org/Networks/FoundationTrust/News/Pages/ReportonFTN'sQualityConference.aspx

    “Neil Hathaway (Head of Estates & Facilities Management) and Neil Cross (Sustainable Development & Energy Manager) from Birmingham and Solihull Mental Health Trust presented on ‘CSR and accounting for sustainability’. Working together to deliver on the sustainability agenda across the trust, with a local population of 1.2m, 4000 staff and 103 sites, the challenges were and still are considerable. They have achieved some good success however and their efforts were recognised last year when they received an HSJ Good Corporate Citizen Award on behalf of the trust.”

    Where did the Nazis disappear at the end of WW2? Mental Health and Family Planning . . . .

  139. Locusts says:

    Amerloque,

    There is a theory that the one child policy in China was implemented under the guidance of the UN and America, the carrot being massive Western investment upon implementation. I haven’t seen anything that is definite proof of this, yet it would be interesting if it were true though, wouldn’t it?

  140. rastech says:

    His attendance was picked and queried up here too:

    http://thetruthserumblog.blogspot.com/2010/06/who-is-john-oldham-and-why-did-he-go-to.html

    Watch out for this ‘Care Pathway’ they mention.

    That did my mother in. No food, no drink, until dead.

    I asked the nurse why I got a mental picture of bands playing, Swastika’s flying, and German Shephard dogs barking at the queue, after she described the ‘Care Pathway’ to me.

    She just went red and didn’t say a word. 😦

  141. rastech says:

    Not too sure about that ‘truth serum’ blog by the way, I certainly wouldn’t go so far as to ‘heartily recommend’ it.

    But very interesting that they picked up on that particular attendee.

  142. rastech says:

    Locusts:”In that book I mentioned, the population of the Earth were too scared to go explore the universe.”

    I did a sort of informal study of that in the 70’s. Surveyed a lot of people my age group, to see how many would jump at the chance of not just going into space, but contributing over a period of years to develop the means to emigrate to space and live there permanently.

    The results were that encouraging (it was most of them), that I approached Michael Manley when he was PM of Jamaica, with a view to establishing development and launch facilities. There would have been a lot of jobs and industry for Jamaica.

    He almost went for it.

  143. Locusts says:

    Ras,

    I’ve got this image of a primary school child doing a straw poll of his friends, then approaching the Prime Minister whilst on a school visit with the results. Tell me it is not so!

  144. rastech says:

    “I’ve got this image of a primary school child doing a straw poll of his friends, then approaching the Prime Minister whilst on a school visit with the results. Tell me it is not so!”

    No I did all the financial projections, believe it or not.

    The income opportunities alone, are staggering, for all the shareholders. This is worth a listen (NASA had designs for what were called ‘Santa Claus Machines’ in the 1960’s).

    Have a listen to this . . . .

    http://www.slideshare.net/sheep000/santa-claus-machine

  145. Ms. Reisman from Indigo/Chapters Books & Music is there because anyone I know who likes books hates their stores for their transparently manipulative presentation of and advance of specific titles, and she can’t sort out why their firm hasn’t the market share, and also I believe she needs help and advice from experienced brain-destroyers on how to eliminate the indie and used bookstores.

    There is a used indie shop on Stanley Street off Maissoneuve in downtown Montreal called Odyssey Books not half a block from Indigo’s second or third largest outlet. The owner Bernard told me the location is superb because he gets people daily coming into his small operation who couldn’t find anything at Indigo.

    http://odysseybooks.qc.ca/

    Maybe they should practice this game at Build A Burger:

    http://www.positech.co.uk/democracy2/index.html

  146. The Stanley Street Pub is right across the street after you buy your books. They make some pretty good sandwiches there. A block over, you can go to Churchill’s on Crescent for something pricier. I usually go to the cafeteria at the Musee des Beaux Artes two blocks off Maisonneuve and make an afternoon of it.

    I really think they could come out with better ideas at Build A Burger if they did it my way, and if they were really in the market for new ideas, which they aren’t. The (literal) beggars already know what they are going to do to whom before the meeting, as it is. Bank on it, if you will forgive the double entendre.

  147. Amerloque says:

    Yet again, my usual call to action (“Now is not the time to let up !”) post has been zapped, on JD’s new thread on Bilderberg. At least ten times …

    While looking on the web for info about Disqus, I ran across this:

    “… As a final note I’ll add that it’s true: I am getting what I paid for. Disqus is free, and I’m thankful to the Disqus team for providing me with this service (and providing free support as well). It’s just painful for me to see it going downhill like this because the premise is good and the product can be great if the developers spent more time focusing on simplicity and usability rather than feature set.

    Anyone else feel the same way or do you love all the features that Disqus offers?”

    Can this be true ?

    Disqus is free ?!?!

    Is the DT committing seppuku by adopting free software and not ensuring a results-oriented support team ?

    No wonder the DT blogs are all screwed up.

  148. Locusts says:

    Amerloque

    Disqus is not free for large scale deployments, but must be rather cheap. But yes, a casual search reveals more frustration than happiness.

  149. Locusts says:

    Ras,

    Fascinating stuff. I’m also mightily relieved that the Prime Minister’s most valued advisors were not dressed in short shorts.

  150. Amerloque says:

    Hi Locusts !
    on September 26, 2010 at 10:44 pm

    /// I haven’t seen anything that is definite proof of this, yet it would be interesting if it were true though, wouldn’t it? ///

    Yes, quite interesting. (smile) It’s one of those things that we’ll never, ever find out unless the powers-that-be want us to know, is it ? (re-smile)

    It probably wouldn’t be a very good idea if we start discussing it here, since spooks from all over the world have been focusing on this site since your eyeopening Carbon War excerpts.

    Since then, have you had any Waltlike events on your provider ?

    We had a telephone fella come over to “check the landline”. The only problem is that … we don’t have a permanent landline through that company. (sigh)

    The same thing happened over ten years ago when Mme Amerloque was invited to run for political office. All kinds of $hit started happening.

    Mme Amerloque declined the invitation. Smart lady. (grin)

    Best,
    L’Amerloque

  151. As respects Dickless at the DT, the editors have taken the position that they do not want to feed into encouraging the readership to think of current events as products of multiple events taking place over several says, weeks or months. They don’t like contemplation, it doesn’t sell newspapers. Disgust is a perfect fit to suit their marketing aims. I am surprised no one has ever examined how the media exacerbate dementia through defeating our inherent tendency to link cause and effect over time as human beings to arrive at solutions to problems. Disgust makes linear, additive, cumulative and most importantly, fruitful thought and discourse an impossibility.

    That’s the idea. You’re supposed to hit the bar when the red light comes one to get your banana for the day, and only then.

    That presentation on the Santa Claus machine is fascinating in its coverage of plasma and its potential uses. UK MoD did some astonishing work during and immediately after WW II on magnetohydrodynamics in hopes of rendering practical in applications other than welding and vacuum metal deposition (the latter is how single-crystal gas turbine blades for aircraft app’s are “grown”) for plasma, to no avail at the time, owing to metallurgical and cooling problems.

    The best done so far is Plasco’s municipal refuse plasma disintegrator power plant array, which uses the waste heat from discombobulating garbage and super-toxic chemical molecules to heat a boiler for running a steam turbogenerator. They also make chemicals from this glunk using plasma, too. Here’s their site:

    http://www.plascoenergygroup.com/

    The toys Professor Herman Branover did up for DARPA and NASA back in the Eighties you may get to read about in, oh, fifty years, which goes a long way toward explaining why we are wrestling with 1917-era political issues in 2010 when we should be winging our way to work wearing rocket belts and teleporting to the nearest inhabitable galaxy, and all that other probably already operational stuff.

    Always sort of disliked sci-fi myself. In sci-fi no one ever retires to the throne room with the sports page, no fights over pay and who works what shift, no chaos and contention growing out of mixed gender crews, no aliens saying “Damn, you’re ugly,” and vice versa, no one jumping out of the ship without their spacesuit because they are bored to death, no practical jokes.

  152. Locusts says:

    Amerloque,

    I think I’m safe. Everything I write passes through an ISP first, it is all out in the open. I’ve had far more problems with my paranoia than with anything concrete, which of course is the essence of thoughtcrime.

    I’ll do my best to keep pushing the boundaries in my own mind as to what constitutes thoughtcrime, then deal with the consequences if they come. I’ve got a sneaking suspicion that I may still be paddling in the shallow end however! 🙂

  153. Amerloque says:

    Hello Bruin-who-kicked-the-stuffings-outta-the-Longhorns-yesterday !
    on September 27, 2010 at 1:11 am

    Two separate flies on the wall, at different times, have stated that Davos is a winnowing (“présélection”) for Bilderberg. Both have been right on other things in the past.

    Best,
    L’Amerloque

  154. Recht oder links, mein Herr Amerloque? It’s 1936 already, has been for the last decade.

    We are the ones up for Selektion at the moment. The methodology is what is being sorted out at this forthcoming shindig.

    I personally am a little annoyed at the marginalization of the North American bedbug problem. Look up Dr. Russell Wilder and Dr. Ricketts. It would be grotesque if typhus did for the Buildaburgers and for them as well what they wish to do to our brains.

    Personally I am inclined toward Australian rules football and rugby. What makes for the injuries in US football is the very body armour they wear, which, I suppose, is what makes it an American game LOL

  155. Looks like it is a sort of League of Nations in reverse, IMHO.

  156. Locusts, there are no shallow ends, only variable limits to the degree of tolerance of the regime in power.

  157. Locusts says:

    Walt,

    Of course. Best not to scare oneself though, might stop one from doing the right thing.

  158. Amerloque says:

    Hi Papa Grizzly !
    on September 27, 2010 at 1:48 am

    /// … magnetohydrodynamics in hopes of rendering practical in applications other than welding and vacuum metal deposition (the latter is how single-crystal gas turbine blades for aircraft app’s are “grown”) for plasma, to no avail at the time, owing to metallurgical and cooling problems.///

    Didn’t some of this lead to the de Havilland Comet crashes, which really opened the floodgates to funding researchers in metal fatigue ?

    Best,
    L’Amerloque

  159. Hi, Amerloque. I think the Comet had problems with its window mounts, not fatigue. I rather refer you to the excellent 1950’s film naming the star and the plane but I am having not a senior moment, just a Sunday “Why am I not outside today on the waterfront?” moment and am too lazy to go to Imdb.com

    The directionally solidifed AND the monocrystalline turbine blades were developed to prevent the turbine blades from stretching under load and rubbing against their housing seals like Rene 80 and other turbine blade metals tend to do. Instead, when these blades fail they crumble instantaneously and turn to dust instead of bending, striking other blades, forming a metal ball then taking out the entire engine.

    The Russians sorted out this sort of thing well ahead of us, but they developed chromium free molybdenum-intensive steels which also do the “if-I-stretch_I-turn-to-dust” magic trick for the Klimov TB3-117 Mi8 Hind chopper, which is the timber harvester’s constant companion throughout the back woods of both North and South American, if it’s not a Skyhook or other chopper.

    Um, never buy a used Russian aircraft engine, either. They are made to be used once then thrown away to save on maintenance needs altogether. Instead I highly recommend direct purchase from the Klimov family at http://en.klimov.ru/ Sweet people who work with General Electric, SNECMA, Alstom, Siemens, you name it, are what they are. One of their affiliate firms also makes super huge hydroelecctric turbine runners and other huge castings of the sort we used to make for everyone else also.

    Speaking of recycling, that goes on in literature and drama as well, but it is starting to sink in what a stuck record we are. You can make a firm argument that nothing really different has been attempted since before 1918 or so. For instance, I am reading “Sashenka” by Montefiore, and it must be the 20th or 30th admonitory intergenerational saga of the Russian Revolution on the market today. I count the books of Aksyanov, Pasternak, and half a dozen others. The prototype grandaddy of them all I have a hard time finding called “The Brothers Ashkenazi” by Israel Yaakov Singer, Isaac’s novelist brother. It’s the best of the bunch.

    Then there is Akanova, who made Stravinsky’s ballets an economic success, not Nijinksy so much. She made Lady Gaga look tame, and I think she had a better mind than Stravinsky and even Diaghelev.

    Then there is Demimusa or some such from French silent cinema which leatherclad vixen made dozens of vampire versus werewolf fims in the 20’s and kicked off the formation of France’s Hayes Commission because of their libidinous appeal.

    As long as I am doing product endorsements, I have resisted getting a PDA for a decade but I sprang for a Sprint HTC Evo. If I had one of those Bluetooth folding keyboards, I would deep-six my laptop etch-a-sketch forever. Love the thing. Wish it made coffee, but give HTC a week or two and it will probably do that. Shows the difference between Taiwanese and Communist Chinese design and manufacture practices (this little guy is from Formosa, you remember, the REAL China). Nice design, good support, easy to figure out, etc.

    The best thing is, I can use it wif me stumpy knockwurst-sized pinkies on the screen keyboard with ease, whereas I would have to be a Keebler elf to use a Crackberry.

  160. We need to stop robbing ideas from Russia at the same time we chastise them for hiring stupid but physically attractive women as spies. One minute you think, how could they have hired here? To which a Russian would reply, how do you think she go the job? LOL

    Even Tarzan in Blue was robbed from a Russian comic book. Come on, people! We can do better. We’ll be in deep doo doo if they ever get around to sorting out how to get paid royalties for their intellectual properties.

    Build A Burger is a Russian idea Russia gave up in 1991. There IS no single ideal paradigm for structuring a society which satisfies everyone. To think there is such a thing is as brainless as trying to coach a tree on how to grow its fruit. All the creative works of this planet’s civilizations originated or were created at a table in a ten by ten foot room, not by mobs of central planning committee apparatchiks who lack only lether belted tunics, jackboots, an ebony Krokodil cigaret holder, a monocle and a Nagant pistol in a flapped holster on their hips to complete the picture.

  161. Walt O'Bruin says:

    Someone stole my bear head.

  162. Walt O'Bruin says:

    WTF. It’s back. Guess I should clear my cache.

  163. Walt O'Bruin says:

    Klimov is in Zaporozhe, Ukraine principally, BTW. :>p

  164. Ozboy says:

    Morning all,

    JD finally got around to his Bilderberg piece while I was asleep on this side of the world: you can discuss it in more detail here

    Cheers

    Oz

  165. Amanda says:

    Good evening all, good evening Oz, good evening Lemon Meringue Pie Bear. Do you like lemon meringue pie, Bear? I make a wonderful lemon meringue pie. I add extra lemon juice so mine is really lemony, and I don’t stint on the meringue, either. I do exercise, but even so, it’s a wonder I’m not 300 lbs.

    I suggested on James’s blog that some troll or other should have a pie. Between the eyes, though: a different thing altogether!

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