Here’s a post where you can discuss the current JD thread in a bit more detail.
I never really knew much about the Bilderberg group. They seem to be compromised of pretty much everyone who actually runs the world, and knows how it all really works. Looking at the list of participants, it would appear they own or control pretty much all the real (i.e., not virtual) money in the world today. All 725.578 gargantuzillion dollars of it, plus a few cents.
I guess that’s why they’re at the top of most conspiracy theorists’ hit lists (along with the Freemasons, Opus Dei, Bullingdon, etc). The world’s greatest conspiracy theorist seems to think so, anyway. And a few months ago I borrowed his front page picture to joke that our own God Emperor was secretly enthroned at a Bilderberg ritual ceremony (or something like that).
Whichever way you look at it, though, the Bilderberg Group must surely represent the world’s true cognoscenti; that is, the ones who know what’s really going on. When people that powerful want a scientific opinion, they don’t read IPCC pap and the kind of WWF opinion pieces on which they’re largely based. They pay the world’s best to give it to them straight.
And they’re afraid of the prospect of global cooling.
So: what does this portend?
Be Responsible - Be Free! 
The good captain has one thing that other conspiracy theorists lack and that is he has Quebecois Lesbian assassins. No good conspiracy should be without them.
On a more serious note if the Bilderberger’s are merely a talking shop to discuss the issuses of the day or looming on the horizon why the press blackout, why the massive security and why if it is a private meeting why do the host countries pay for security to keep the plebs away. Anyone whom attends tends to keep very quiet and never divulges what was said or discussed not even Sir Norman Tebbit, Sir Dennis Healy also attended and when quizzed by an interviewer politly tol him to “fuck off”.
What is so earth shattering that it must be kept totally secret if it is merely a talking shop.
Hi, Crownarmourer. The fear I think is of litigation. If they released tentative plans for doing this that or the other, many people would base their companies’ planning on those plans. Just the remark that one of the points of discussion is global cooling is enough to bring a smile to a boilermaker’s face, for example.
Besides which they don’t people actually knowing that this is really a marathon session of global megastake poker, where whoever wins gets to invade Dogblovia, ravish its women, including hostage Quebec lesbians, burn its houses, and steal its horses.
To my mind, there is also very little evidence to support the contention that major operational decisions are taken as a result of these soirees, anymore than anything dramatic comes out of Davos or the G20.
If anyone can draw a substantive line of causality on a timeline of such decision-taking as a result of these meetings, I am all eyes.
I hope parasitic insect vectors are on the agendum.
Walt they asked Denis Healy over 20 years after he attended and he would still not talk about what was said. It has been rumoured that the 1973 arab israeli war and oil embargo was a Bilderberger inspired plan as to why they wanted to push the world into a bad recession who knows.
Which one of them is Gandalf, and which one Saruman?
I think this has been misinterpreted. I don’t think they’re worried about “global cooling” in terms of devastation and famine. No…it’s much worse than that. Even slight, gradual but consistent global cooling is a deadly threat to GLOBAL WARMING. These boys and girls have a lot of eggs in the AGW basket. The advantages of being able to “sell” the AGW fraud on a global scale are invaluable to these folks. Control CO2 and you control energy. Control energy and you control entire economies. Control of energy and economies and you essentially control the population almost as effectively as if you controlled food and water. Global redistribution of wealth, absolute control over the world’s economies, gateway to a one-world global government.
If they have to endure another decade where the temps don’t get warmer even all the manipulation and fraud that money can buy will prove insufficient to successfully market AGW. Once eager politicians are now becoming gun shy of the AGW scam.
Aside from us, the free citizens and taxpayers of the world, the biggest losers if AGW goes belly up are folks just like the Bilderberg group. I don’t think they’re worried about an impending ice age, they’re scared to death their intricately fabricated scam they’ve invested 2 decades into developing may crumble before they have an opportunity to cash in.
I put my greetings on the previous thread by mistake:
Good evening all, good evening Oz, good evening Lemon Meringue Pie Bear. Do you like lemon meringue pie, Bear? I make a wonderful lemon meringue pie. I add extra lemon juice so mine is really lemony, and I don’t stint on the meringue, either. I do exercise, but even so, it’s a wonder I’m not 300 lbs.
I suggested on James’s blog that some troll or other should have a pie. Between the eyes, though: a different thing altogether!
Uncie Dave,
You mean the guys in charge don’t care about my family?
Hello, Amanda my dear. Lemon meringue pie is just great after a hearty meal of big-eyed fuzzy baby seals, but lemon chess pie is a Southern black specialty that takes me back to the blind pigs of the now-vanished old blues corridor the other side of John R and Warren where you could catch Mitch Ryder and a guy called Bob Seger woodshedding for the crowd or Chicago Slim. http://www.blindpigrecords.com
We all await your reprise of your song done up for the digital screen, too. There was nothing wrong with your shape last time you appeared.
It is surpassing ominous that world leaders would choose to exclude us aggressively from their discussions when it is our fortunes which rise or fall on the rise or fall of their little pinkies. On the other hand, were I in their shoes, I would dearly treasure some place where everyone could get together, loosen their ties, and really talk without a camera or microphone up my arse. I totally sympathize with Russell Brand in punching out that papa ratsy.
Also, Dr. Dave is spot on. I cannot go into details right now, but my current project driving me buggo is a combined cycle gas turbine peaking plant in support of wind farm generation LOL Serves me right. I’ve piles of utility documents in front of me I cannot show around and I am almost exploding to do so:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZX5JdbvprAQ Not as gross as “Scanners,” I promise.
Given what I am to be paid on this, believe me, it is easy to stay schtumm. History can speak for itself on this without me, but believe me, AGW is entirely …well…
You don’t know how right you are, Dr. Dave.
Dr. Dave says:
September 27, 2010 at 10:34 am
Yes.
When the world was young, Global Cooling and the coming New Ice Age were the catastrophe topics of the day…. Carl Sagan’s nuclear winter also….. There is much more mileage in Co2 as the Demon, and the further, deliberate, confusion between Co2 and Carbon… Coal you know.. filthy Black stuff from days of the Industrial Revolution. Clever lot. But why would you bother after the first billion or so?
Marcus
crownarmourer says:
September 27, 2010 at 9:26 am
It had lots to do with stopping runaway world inflation which Carter did nothing to stop. The only job they were trust him with at Build A Burger would be deep-frying the potatoes. This was before futures trading in petroleum products; that did not happen until 1984. Now all that supports our currencies is loans to derivatives and futures traders who are popping their rivets to keep commodities at their present inflated rates.
Why? Because the present evil, mean, exploitative energy industry globally who built this civilization are the only people left you can rely on to pay down their debts on time and on schedule, now that all the gutter runners and burger flippers have been shown the door by CFTC and the SEC.
Walt, darling, is there anywhere worthwhile you haven’t been? I wonder.
Elementary my dear mlpinaus. They want the second billion.
Would that be thousand million or a million million?
Amanda, I’d love to see Vienna (the New Vienna Circle), Newcastle (Vosper Thornycroft LOL), the Babcock works at Renfrew and the Clyde estuary (again), the RR works in Ansty, Coventry, Prague, Budapest, Lilles, Avignon, Corsica, and Amy Belle in Glasgow at whatever bar she’s playing now.
Lemon Chess Pie Is More Gooder Too Bear says:
September 27, 2010 at 11:17 am
How….Middle class of me. You must be right. (The modern billion, one thousand , small approachable, ordinary ones). The time to watch out for will be when immortalty becomes possible….
Marcus
No Gandalf then?
The time to watch out is when these berserkers go broke….again. Then, it’s Springtime for Hitler again:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCUfkMkVbwo Such a lovely song…
Lemon Chess Pie Is More Gooder Too Bear says:
September 27, 2010 at 11:27
Yes, as well. Loved the movie… My son is reading up on the stars, like Hitler and Stalin, FDR and so on for his next book. Often asks How could people fall for this? Answer? They were in despare…..
Marcus
Typo…….despair
A comment thread on another site many months ago led me to the sad conclusion that electricity prices will never go down in my lifetime. Consider the situation of a large commercial electric utility. They may fuss about carbon taxes but in reality they really don’t care. If broad carbon taxes are imposed they will simply pass the expense on to the consumer. This will cause unnecessary “energy conservation” (with attendant decreases in standard of living). Folks will use less electricity and pay more for everything that depends on electricity (virtually everything). The utilities will simply raise their base prices to assure they’re not making any less than they did before yet they will be producing less electricity or serving more consumers with the same amount of production. Either way, they win, we lose.
If CO2 cannot legitimately be vilified as the destroyer of a habitable climate what possible reason is there for grossly inefficient wind turbines? Why would Walt be working on his current project? One of the ideas for those at the top of the food chain is to charge all of us more for less. They become no less wealthy but the market has been artificially manipulated to produce as much or greater wealth from less resource. Sucks for us but is a pretty sweet deal for large scale energy producers (be it oil, gas, electricity, etc.). The trick is to get all these big guys on the same page.
An analogy once offered to me is the Dutch dominated diamond trade. Diamonds are nearly as rare as most of us believe. These diamond cartels restrict the numbers of diamonds available for sale each year and thereby keep the price artificially high. Diamonds are expensive to mine and process. It’s much more cost-effective to maintain a surplus and simply control the supply side of the market. The best interests of the suppliers are to play along with the artificial scarcity and allow prices to remain high. Their marketing is second to none as well.
AGW is a multi-billion dollar international business. They can’t have some inconvenient facts and the truth threaten this. The big robber barons have plotted this scam for decades. Huge banking, investment and manufacturing concerns are counting on the potential windfall. Politicians are salivating over the influence, power and control that could be achieved (not to mention the tax monies). This trickles down to the NGOs and the tens of thousands of “scientists”, universities and government agencies that depend of this money for their livelihood.
If you were at the top of the influence and money pyramid wouldn’t YOU be concerned that this elaborate scam could be derailed and destroyed by a few years of inconvenient cooling?
Lemon Chess Pie Is More Gooder Too Bear says:
September 27, 2010 at 11:24 am
Vienna is my favourite city in Europe. The Stadtpark is beautiful in the summer and delicious in the Winter. There’s even a cafe Mozart.
Pointman
Walt: Yes! Me too! But I’d add Italy to the list as sadly I have not been there. Hard to believe, but true. Amy Belle, I bet she is. You like the ladies, don’t you?
Pointman likes Vienna. I bet their cakes are delicious.
Sacher Torte and good Coffee. Life doesn’t get any better …
Pointman
Hi, Amanda. Amy Belle is sort of special as she has a ripping good voice, ’tis a fair Highland damsel, and had a shot at the big time then thought the better of it. Good on ‘er, I say.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RkWs6P2IwE&feature=related Here’s her with the Peroxide Rooster in 2004.
And here’s her site. Probably hates being “managed.” Me too! LOL
http://www.myspace.com/amybellemusic
Pointman, I just want to catch the VSO doing up Mahler proper with Barenboim of somesuch, then walk the streets Koestler and Wiesenthal did. There also is a New Vienna Circle, the shrine of logical positivists of the Russell-Whitehead-Einstein variety, not for the socialist totalitarians of the Mach-Wittgenstein sort. Good bunch.
Oh! I’d also like to catch the Isaac Newton Society in the Big Smoke as well. They continue the work of Russell and Whitehead very ably. You can walk right in and watch them duking it out at the blackboard.
of should be or. Digitarditis.
Dr. Dave, I can’t talk about it, and I am going mad. Look up “paradox of renewables” on Gargle. It’s worse than you described and envisioned.
Amanda and Walt try the French alps such as Chamonix and Mont Blanc and also try Annecy beautiful places and the topless sunbathing on Lac du Annecy makes the trip worthwhile well for Walt not Amanda, Paris is great for a weekend trip.
For the USA I love the Rockies which the word awesome was invented.
Crown, I wish you wouldn’t say all this. I can’t go anywhere: dog is too dependent, husband is, too. And I’m hardly going to prance off to Chamonix on my own!
Walt, she’s got a nice smile, too, and the pearls and black outfit you approve of. Though personally I save belly-exposure for belly dancing.
Amanda one thing I am going to do when I get a chance is travel and if rich enough do a food tour of the USA and visit a lot of those mom and pop dives and take in a lot of scenery on the way and take my time. The dog goes back to it’s owner the step son.
The missus and I want to go see the Bavarian alps.
Bavaria is in the USA?
That is some continental drift.
Amanda pity about not being able to travel much I love to but I hate being on a set schedule being dictated to by other people it makes the trip suck as you feel under stress to conform.
Other places to visit would be south west Wales amazing and full of castles, the city of York and the city of Durham and definitely the lake district.
Well, freedom ain’t free, Amanda. Sometime I’ll post pix of all the little “field office” flats and apartments near jobsites I’ve occupied (about 30-40 of them pictured). Try on living out of 3-5 suitcases and the occasional truckload of paperwork for 30 years sometime. That’s the life of both entertainment high-rollers and construction worksite permatemps for you.
I miss Peter Morris-Johnson of Babcock plc, their former export manager. He’s probably retired by now for several years. Spitting image of David Niven, and as charming. He took me to this exclusive wine cellar restaurant under a bridge in London, ordered up the most expensive wine, sniffed it after the wine guy did his routine with the gold cup on a chain, then took in a mouthful tilted back his head, and made gargling sounds with it. Did up lunch at Glencoe Golf Club with Celi Green and a director named Malcolm when I met up with them again in Glasgow. I was a compleat rookie. It was great.
They built the US mod of National Grid based on what copious data I supplied. Never made a dime, though it built a rep for me, but what an adventure for a youngster.
Locusts sorry I jumped continents on that one my idea of fun would actually be to take an Antarctic cruise and shoot a few penguins.
Oktoberfest is still on auf Munchen, Crownarmourer. Lufthansa probably has special deals. Don’t you have some extra vacation time you need to use or lose?
Flamethrowers for the tapdancing ones.
I’ll tell you what they should be doing with carbon offsets: building gas turbine peakers LOL Better yet, Lord Soames should be drafted as British energy minister and head of industry. And flamethrower Hoon while you’re at it, Mr. Cameron. Do something Prime Ministerly like arranging a car accident or something.
He’s committed to destroying the West just like Vince Cable.
You know that, Sir. Pull the effing trigger, please.
Don’t think of it as ruining two men’s careers. Think of it as jumping from ten feet up on to two foot-long cockroaches.
Actually, I think the Build A Burgers are having drunken tricycle races, and jousting with tossable dwarves. Maybe some papparazzi polo on Vespas with wet mops, too.
Walt if you misinterpret dwarf tossing wrong you end up with a two year suspended sentence.
New World Order? Here’s the only New Order I care about:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HR9GLbiAq14&feature=related The group playing Regret in Glasgow. Nice band. Somewhere I heard one of the band members was Lily Allen’s dad or something.
Full day on the morrow. Over and out, wing leader.
Just in case it gets bumped from DT, here’s what I posted an hour ago in response to the rather odd contributor (almost certainly a Denial Of Service bot), “heliumlady”:
I tried an experiment today: I took James’ paragraph above that begins, “Our fuel bills have risen inexorably…” And ran it through Alta Vista Babel Fish, from English to Portuguese, then from Portuguese to French, then back from French into English. Here’s the result:
Our accounts of fuel raised inexorably; our field, our opinions and our values of the real estate values were devastated by agricultural explorations of wind timorous; our vacation was made more expensive; our cost of living was led above by green taxes; our freedoms were reduced in all the number of manners pettily d’ irritation of which standard of blisters we are allowed so that to use us as we it has our expenditure. And with qu’ end? If the synthetic total heating really arrived and really a problem that we possibly could have continued to tolerate all these constraints in our freedom and attacks in our income. But s’ it pours to have been a myth ……
Heliumlady is thus explained.
Yep, Carolino
From
http://www.sovereignindependent.com/?p=8454
“Global Cooling Impacts Being Felt Now
Today Californians just had the coldest summer in decades. Last year in the northern hemisphere, Britain suffered one of the worst winters in 100 years. While in the U.S. the National Weather Service (NWS) reported that the bitterly cold winter broke numerous temperature and snow extent records with the 4th coldest February on record. New York and much of the U.S. Northeast was pumelled by record snow falls that deposited about 60cm (2 feet) of snow in NYC alone. While in New Zealand tens of thousands of lambs have perished in bitter winter snows.”
So cold, but only where the people are. Or the adults, at least. I’ve always said, Global warming is a bit like Sesame Street’s Mr Snuffleupagus.
It seems extra cold in both hemispheres with early snow in the UK and India. Late snow in Tasmania and NZ. Tell me about it NI; tonight’s forecast is for snow down to 300 metres; imagine that in late March in UK (six months from now you won’t have to) – Oz
From
Click to access Draft%20outcome%20document.pdf
We reaffirm the need for a strong United Nations to meet the challenges of the changing global environment.
(k) Supporting the Five Rome Principles for Sustainable Global Food Security contained in the Declaration of the Rome World Summit on Food Security;
We are deeply concerned, however, that the number of people living in extreme poverty and hunger surpasses 1 billion and that inequalities between and within countries remains a significant challenge.
From
Click to access WegmanReport.pdf
Networks, Relations and Structure
“A social network is a mathematical structure made of nodes, which are generally taken to represent individuals or organizations. A network graph illustrates how the nodes are connected. Social network analysis (also called network theory) has emerged as a key technique and a topic of study in modern sociology, anthropology, social psychology and organizational theory. Research has demonstrated that social networks, operating on many levels, from families up to the level of nations, play a critical role in determining the way problems are solved, organizations are run, and the degree to which individuals succeed in achieving their goals. The shape of the social network helps determine a network’s usefulness to its individuals. Smaller, tighter networks can be less useful to their members than networks with lots of loose connections (weak ties) to individuals outside the main network. More “open” networks, with many weak ties and social connections, are more likely to introduce new ideas and opportunities to their members than closed networks with many redundant ties. In other words, a group of friends who only do things with each other already share the same knowledge and opportunities. Yet a group of individuals with connections to other social worlds is likely to have access to a wider range of information. It is better for individual success to have connections to a variety of networks rather than many connections within a single network. Similarly, individuals can exercise influence or act as brokers within their social networks by bridging two networks that are not directly linked (called filling social holes).”
Looking at the big picture it has seemed obvious for a long time that the poorest folk of the world are in a band around the equator.
IF I was an elite and knew that the world was cooling, how would I go about getting hold of the only part of the planet that will be habitable when the glaciers bury Europe and the USA again?
Perhaps by starving the folks that are there into extinction, or at least making their lives as miserable as possible, they will be forced out of the equatorial band.
My, (I naively thought!) how it must irk those elites who plan on taking over the warm parts, to have tools like Bono (and Oxfam!) interfering with their plans.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1314543/Bonos-ONE-foundation-giving-tiny-percentage-funds-charity.html
What can you buy in this day and age with the 9.6 million quid he has raised?
Well it seems that after a few deductions for running costs you will only have £118,000 left, (and at £25 each, you can only get 4,720 plague ridden blankets.)
In Bono’s defence…
“Another spokesman in New York today dismissed the notion of lavish salaries being paid to its 120 members of staff and said the organisation was highly efficient in its raising of awareness.
ONE said it took no money from the public and that most of its funding came from the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation.”
Nothing to see here, move along…
From the same page…
“Bono was playing Brussels last night with U2 as the world’s leaders – so many of whom he speaks to directly – were meeting at the UN assembly in New York to assess the progress, or lack of, in reaching the Millennium goals they set.”
Bono, Bill Gates, the UN, and all the others (we know who they are!), “our betters”, the CREAM will always rise to the top.
The band, Primary Slave has a 2nd album out in about 6 weeks, I enclose the lyrics to a song called CREAM written in about 2001 by Mark Giltrow (RIP)
CREAM (Corrupt, Religious, Elite, Amoral, Motherfuckers)
Take a look on CNN
And you will find a man
Who’s not afraid of lying
To His country
Talking up a war
Against the West
The way he speaks about a
World of black and white
And good and evil
Is the evil axis evil access?
Evil take the test
It seems to live the dream
We have to take a side
And put aside our dreams
Live with fear
Subject with fear
Crusade with all the rest
Mr. Spokesman
Do you run the fucking place completely?
On your own?
The answers in the brief
Catch the sound bite
Spin the rest
Chorus
Mr. Spokesman,
Do you have the final say?
In what is going on
Going on
And will you champion transparency
In government that proves you wrong
Proves you wrong
And make a case for war
With spurious intelligence
Against all law
Mr. Spokesman
Do you run the fucking place completely?
He regrets disaster
The ones you died to find
We forget the answers
The one inside
Switch it back to CNN
And you will find a man
Who’s not afraid to die for
King and country
President or oil
Or all, at best
It was a war on the proliferation
Of world terror
This has now been fudged into
An ideal of democratic zest
In justifying war by selling
Us a fight for freedom
Even though in recent times
We sold the regime
Weapons to oppress
Mr. Spokesman
Have you stretched integrity?
As far as it will go
The answers in the brief
Catch the sound bite
Spin the rest
Repeat chorus
Has the song dated?
Or, is it still just as relevant now?
NoIdea
This story has gone from NoIdea to here to JD and now to WUWT
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2010/09/26/bilderberg-group-discusses-global-cooling-at-2010-meeting/
Rich and powerful people stay rich and powerful because the see the world with a certain brutal clarity. If they do not see the world with clarity, they will not remain rich or powerful for long, especially in the high-end predatory circles they live in. Not for them the common delusions of justice, inalienable rights, a one true God, democratic ideals and all the rest of the baggage. For them, that stuff is right up there with alien abductions, crop circles and all the other conspiracy mind fodder.
The way they keep their clarity is by paying for good information. By this I don’t mean obtaining privileged information – they are usually the people who have the privileged information. What they quite legitimately pay for, is high quality bullshit-free briefings of the way things are in the real world and especially the trends that are or will emerge. Knowing what’s coming at you, you simply rearrange your assets accordingly and you’ll get richer automatically.
As for grand conspiracy theories, forget about it. While they are prepared to cooperate momentarily when there’s an alignment of interests, it’s always purely tactical. Being yoked into a team is not their style. After all, they made their money by doing exactly that to others. Basically, their egos tend to be a big as their bank balances.
Pointman
DrDave:”but the market has been artificially manipulated”
Artificially restrict supply, to artificially stimulate demand, so you can artificially inflate the price . . . . .
Which is NOT how ‘The Market’ works.
But we have suffered from it, for decades.
The triumph of Marketing over product.
Which never ends well either (people find out, don’t like being taken for suckers, and then they stop buying your shit).
saved post
richardscourtney
just now
MakNox
My post in reply to your comment seems to have failed to appear. It was in response to your having written:
“there seems to be a spectacular ignorance about the mechanism of Global climate change and it is changing whether man made or not .Some areas of the world are getting hotter some colder,weather gets more extreme.If you really think man’s plundering of the earth’s resources has made no impact then keep dreaming on the deck of this ship of fools.The point is that no-one knows exactly how the climate is going to change but IT IS changing and as usual those with capital make money out of any situation-no conspiracy there, just plain greed.”
So, I now repeat my response.
As you say, “Some areas of the world are getting hotter some colder” and this has always been true, as it always will be true.
And, yes, global climate “is changing whether man made or not”. This is not news. Climate has always changed everywhere and always will: this has been known since the Bronze Age when it was pointed out to Pharaoh by Joseph (the one with the Technicolour Dreamcoat). Joseph told Pharaoh to prepare for the bad times when in the good times, and all sensible governments have adopted that policy throughout the thousands of years since then.
That tried and tested policy is sensible because people merely complain at taxes in the good times, but they will revolt if they are short of food in the bad times.
But in 1990 several governments decided to abandon that policy and, instead, to try to stabilize the climate of the entire Earth by controlling it. The UK started that policy and intends to continue it. Many governments of many countries are doing the same.
This attempt at global climate control arises from the hypothesis of anthropogenic (that is, man-made) global warming (AGW).
But there is no evidence – none, zilch, not any – that AGW has had any discernible effect on global temperature and/or climate.
Human activities do affect local climates (e.g. it is warmer in each city than its surrounding countryside, but there is no evidence – none, zilch, not any – that Man’s use of natural resources has had any affect on global climate.
And there is no evidence – none, zilch, not any – that weather has become – or will become “more extreme”.
However, you are right when you say;
“there seems to be a spectacular ignorance about the mechanism of Global climate change”.
Indeed, this ignorance is universal.
Our best understandings of climate behaviours are built into the climate models. But it is an established fact that the models do not represent the climate system which exists in reality.
All global climate models and energy balance models are known to provide indications which are based on the assumed degree of aerosol cooling input to each model as a ‘fiddle factor’ to obtain agreement between past average global temperature and the model’s indications of average global temperature.
A decade ago I published a peer-reviewed paper that showed the UK’s Hadley Centre general circulation model (GCM) could not model climate and only obtained agreement between past average global temperature and the model’s indications of average global temperature by forcing the agreement with an input of assumed aerosol cooling. And my paper demonstrated that the assumption of aerosol effects being responsible for the model’s failure was incorrect.
(ref. Courtney RS An assessment of validation experiments conducted on computer models of global climate using the general circulation model of the UK’s Hadley Centre Energy & Environment, Volume 10, Number 5, pp. 491-502, September 1999).
More recently, in 2007, Kiehle published a paper that assessed 9 GCMs and two energy balance models.
(ref. Kiehl JT,Twentieth century climate model response and climate sensitivity. GEOPHYSICAL RESEARCH LETTERS, VOL. 34, L22710, doi:10.1029/2007GL031383, 2007).
Kiehl found the same as my paper except that each model he assessed used a different aerosol ‘fix’ from every other model.
He says in his paper:
”One curious aspect of this result is that it is also well known [Houghton et al., 2001] that the same models that agree in simulating the anomaly in surface air temperature differ significantly in their predicted climate sensitivity. The cited range in climate sensitivity from a wide collection of models is usually 1.5 to 4.5 deg C for a doubling of CO2, where most global climate models used for climate change studies vary by at least a factor of two in equilibrium sensitivity.
The question is: if climate models differ by a factor of 2 to 3 in their climate sensitivity, how can they all simulate the global temperature record with a reasonable degree of accuracy. Kerr [2007] and S. E. Schwartz et al. (Quantifying climate change–too rosy a picture?, available at http://www.nature.com/reports/climatechange, 2007) recently pointed out the importance of understanding the answer to this question. Indeed, Kerr [2007] referred to the present work and the current paper provides the ‘‘widely circulated analysis’’ referred to by Kerr [2007]. This report investigates the most probable explanation for such an agreement. It uses published results from a wide variety of model simulations to understand this apparent paradox between model climate responses for the 20th century, but diverse climate model sensitivity.”
And Kiehl’s paper says:
”These results explain to a large degree why models with such diverse climate sensitivities can all simulate the global anomaly in surface temperature. The magnitude of applied anthropogenic total forcing compensates for the model sensitivity.”
And the “magnitude of applied anthropogenic total forcing” is fixed in each model by the input value of aerosol forcing.
I cannot post Kiehl’s Figure 2 here. Please note that it is for 9 GCMs and 2 energy balance models, and its title is:
”Figure 2. Total anthropogenic forcing (Wm2) versus aerosol forcing (Wm2) from nine fully coupled climate models and two energy balance models used to simulate the 20th century.”
The dots on the graph are all over the place.
The underlying problem is that the modellers assume that additional energy content in the atmosphere will result in an increase of temperature, but that assumption is very, very unlikely to be true.
Radiation physics tells us that additional greenhouse gases will increase the energy content of the atmosphere. But energy content is not necessarily sensible heat.
An adequate climate physics (n.b. not radiation physics) would tell us how that increased energy content will be distributed among all the climate modes of the Earth. Additional atmospheric greenhouse gases may heat the atmosphere, they may have an undetectable effect on heat content, or they may cause the atmosphere to cool.
The latter could happen, for example, if the extra energy went into a more vigorous hydrological cycle with resulting increase to low cloudiness. Low clouds reflect incoming solar energy (as every sunbather has noticed when a cloud passed in front of the Sun) and have a negative feedback on surface temperature.
Alternatively, there could be an oscillation in cloudiness (in a feedback cycle) between atmospheric energy and hydrology: as the energy content cycles up and down with cloudiness, then the cloudiness cycles up and down with energy with their cycles not quite 180 degrees out of phase (this is analogous to the observed phase relationship of insolation and atmospheric temperature). The net result of such an oscillation process could be no detectable change in sensible heat, but a marginally observable change in cloud dynamics.
However, nobody understands cloud dynamics so the reality of climate response to increased GHGs cannot be known.
So, the models are known to be wrong, and it is known why they are wrong: i.e.
1. they each emulate a different climate system and are each differently adjusted by use of ‘fiddle factors’ to get them to match past climate change,,
2. but there is only one climate system of the Earth so at most only one of them can be right, and
3. there is no reason to suppose any one of them is right, but
4. there is good reason to suppose that they are all wrong because they cannot emulate cloud processes which are not understood.
In other words, as you say,
“there seems to be a spectacular ignorance about the mechanism of Global climate change”.
That ignorance is universal. Climate realists proclaim that the ignorance of the mechanisms of global climate change is universal, but scare-mongers claim they have a magical knowledge of the mechanisms.
Richard
I find it appalling that Richard’s post at the DT are being deleted just because some troll is hitting the ‘Report’ button. They’re there not to debate but to close the debate down and informed posts like Richard’s scare the Bejazus out of them.
Pointman
“50 People who matter 2010”
http://www.newstatesman.com/2010/09/global-influence-world-2
A new entry at 32, Stephen McIntyre.
http://www.newstatesman.com/global-issues/2010/09/climate-mcintyre-keeper
Pointman
Hello guys
Just hopped by to see you had Richard’s post safe and sound. I had all his posts filed so I have it back on the JD blog now. Many thanks to locusts for also making a back-up.
Good to see your post too pointy. You are missed as one of our most revered troll trashers and knights of delingpole….lol..Perhaps you”ll drop in again soon???
realityreturns says:
September 27, 2010 at 11:34 pm
Never say never …
Pointman
Pointman: “Never say never …”
*grins*
The ‘pre-quake trembler’ that’s hit the Grauniad, has sort of encouraged me to revisit its sister paper (and the DT is now well and truly nothing but a sister paper imho).
RR, feel free to store backups on founding-sons if you wish (same for any others of you that need some ‘belt and braces’ extra storage).
Rastech,
At least the Grauniad’s sister still tends to shave her armpits, showers every now and then and only wears dungarees when pregnant.
Hello, realityreturns and pointman. I just came back from the utility website into which this backup unit is going to feed in support of intermittent power sources, and as is very typical of this heroic independent systems operator (if you recall my posts and Department of Justice filing from February 2010 or so) which participated in shutting down the JCSP project (which was 20% wind nationwide by 2020 as its objective), they publicly post their proceedings from problem solving sessions and workshops for the sake of the enlightenment of their electrical retail consumers. As this data is public domain, I will be very pleased to post their empirically-determined evaluations of the exact impact wind and solar have on one of the largest electrical utility grids in the world.
Again, I hold this august group of engineers’ opinions in higher esteem than any scientists, as registered professional engineers go to jail for lying or doing anything which even vaguely approaches public endangerment or wasting of public resources: scientists can do whatever they want without fear of justice or retribution. We already have seen that in the case of the State of Virginia versus Michael Mann: the judge told Attorney General Cuccinnelli that the State of Virginia had every right to demand to review expenditure records relating to Federal and state grants to scientific researchers, then refused to turn over the requested documents to the Attorney General LOL Scientists think about things, engineers have to make things work according to plan, physical and regulatory law, and budget constraints.
Here is the New York State Independent System Operator’s public opinion on what they observe happens when intermittent power sources are introduced into the NY grid:
From the document “NYISO 2010 Reliability Needs Assessment”
QUOTE:
Wind Impact
The NYISO conducted a study (links to all four documents are below and attached) of the reliability impacts of up to 8 GW of installed nameplate wind for selected years through 2018. The primary finding of the study is that wind generation can be reliably integrated to supply renewable energy with significant reductions in “greenhouse” gases such as CO2 and other emissions such as NOx and SO2. However, because of their intermittent and variable nature, wind plants provide more of a challenge to power system operation than conventional power plants. This study concluded that the NYISO’s systems and procedures (which includes the security constrained economic dispatch and the practices that have been adopted to accommodate wind resources) will allow for the integration of up to 8 GW of installed wind plants without any adverse BPTF reliability impacts. However, local transmission security issues may need to be addressed. This conclusion is predicated on the assumption that a sufficient thermal resource base is maintained to support the wind. As wind resources increase as an overall percentage of the resource mix, the installed reserve margin will increase due to the variability and the lower overall availability of these resources, all else being equal. (Capacity factors for determining a wind unit’s capacity value over the last three years have ranged from14.1% to 22.9% in the summer months and from 24.2% to 30.4% in winter months.)
The intermittent nature of wind generation results in an increase in overall system variability as measured by the net load (load minus wind). In response to these increased operational challenges the NYISO has implemented changes to its operational practices such as being the first ISO to incorporate intermittent
resources into security constrained economic dispatch (SCED) and to implement a centralized forecasting process for wind resources. The study concluded that at
higher levels of installed wind generation the system will experience higher
magnitude ramping events and will require additional regulation resources to respond to increased variability during the five minute dispatch cycle. The analysis determined that the average regulation requirement will need to increases by approximately 9% for every 1,000 MW increase in wind generation between 4250 MW and 8000 MW. In order to accomplish this increased regulation requirement, non-wind resources will be required.
http://www.nyiso.com/public/committees/documents.jsp?com=bic_miwg&directory=2010-06-18
This conclusion is predicated on the assumption that a sufficient resource base is maintained to back up the wind. This could be economically challenging because the addition of wind resources results in a decline in spot market prices. A reduction in prices is generally a positive development for buyers. However, falling prices can result in what has been described as the “paradox of renewables” — as the penetration of wind generation increases spot prices decline and as does the demand for the fuels displaced by wind, which in turn can lead to a decline in fuel prices and further lower spot prices. This cycle can affect the economic viability of future renewable projects and the economic viability of the resources needed to back up the wind plants.
The intermittent nature of wind generation manifests itself as an increase in overall system variability as measured by the net load. In response to these increased operational challenges the NYISO has implemented changes to its operational practices such as being the first ISO to incorporate intermittent resources into security constrained economic dispatch (SCED) and to implement a centralized forecasting process for wind resources. The study concluded that at
higher levels of installed wind generation the system will experience higher magnitude ramping events and will require regulation requirement increases. The analysis determined that the average regulation requirement increases approximately 9% for every 1,000 MW increase between the 4,250 MW and 8,000 MW wind penetration level. Also, the increases in the magnitude of ramping events will require additional capacity to be available to respond to the changes in the wind generation.
END OF QUOTE
What the above tells me is that for the full 3,300 MWe to wind to come on-line in New York state, the need for new peaking power availability is going to increase not so much to meet retail customer demand as for the wind and renewables sector to meet its contractual obligations, even on a day-ahead basis as indicated above. Further, the above indicates that there is little or no incentive for new peaking plants to be built, as the economics to do so are degenerating at exactly the same rate as new renewables-based intermittent power is installed.
To meet the needs of the scheduled number of principally wind farms coming on line, the actual number of peaking plants needed for the NY grid will have to increase by 36% ADDED TO the existing baseload generators. In point of fact and despite the crowing of the wind community, wind is not displacing ANY thermal power source; in order to function wind has to contract for rapid output range shifting and highly-controllable gas turbine genset operators to track the wind’s variability. Wind and solar are not dispatchable, they run when Nature feels like it. That makes them useless as power generation sources unless you are storing the power, as the electric power output of generation plants has to exactly match the number of KWhrs needed to run their loads exactly or as close as possible.
It gets worse: coal plants and other thermal providers are being shut down with no thought given to actually providing replacement power possessed of the same performance curve. Plants are being pulled down to satisfy greentard demands in the hope that by the time it becomes an issue, some new technology will have solved the above power output control problem.
There are (5) documents reflecting empirical studies results relating to wind impact on this major grid listed at the link above. If I may impose, RR, please run that link to wind studies at the Telegraph with JD. It really needs to be done. I cannot for a variety of reasons, not least of which are vulnerabilities to genuine legal exposure to IMHO frivolous lawsuits.
The Germans, Danes, Norwegians, and UK wind enterprises have not solved this problem either. It is insoluble, and the greentards know it and smile: their sole goal is the destruction of Western civilization.
I must add also to mlapinaus’s posting that it was not despair so much as the urge to revenge which drove both the Huns and the Soviets to mass murder, just as greentardism is a manifestation of one class which views itself as being cheated out of its leadership role feeling it is their moral duty to murder slowly through extinguishing the economy altogether the productive class of engineers, entrepreneurs and other working people so that their socialist programme can go forward without interference.
rastech says:
September 28, 2010 at 12:19 am
Hi Ras, what’s this “‘pre-quake trembler’ that’s hit the Grauniad”?
Pointman
Should be of wind not to wind.
mlpinaus says:
September 27, 2010 at 11:45 am
Despair of normal political solutions. We’re heading into a Winter of discontent in Europe and there’s not much the Pols can do about it since the coffers are empty. With a coalition government in the UK, we’re in a worse situation. It will fold if the situation deteriorates beyond a certain point and despite a potential re-launch of the Labour party under the new Wunderkind, I don’t see any of them securing an overall majority. Add in some PR and that’s a fertile situation for a rise in extremist parties and they won’t be green …
Pointman
Hi All !
Today (Monday20100927):
“Aliens have deactivated British and US nuclear missiles, say US military pilots
Aliens have landed, infiltrated British nuclear missile sites and deactivated the weapons, according to US military pilots.
By Andy Bloxham
Published: 9:28AM BST 27 Sep 2010
The beings have repeated their efforts in the US and have been active since 1948, the men said, and accused the respective governments of trying to keep the information secret.
The unlikely claims were compiled by six former US airmen and another member of the military who interviewed or researched the evidence of 120 ex-military personnel.
The information they have collected suggests that aliens could have landed on Earth as recently as seven years ago.
The men’s aim is to press the two governments to recognise the long-standing extra-terrestrial visits as fact.
They are to be presented on Monday 27 September at a meeting in Washington.
One of the men, Capt Robert Salas, said: “The US Air Force is lying about the national security implications of unidentified aerial objects at nuclear bases and we can prove it.” …/…”
http://tinyurl.com/27kvafc
Weeellllll …
Yesrterday (Sunday 20100926):
“UN ‘to appoint space ambassador to greet alien visitors’
A space ambassador could be appointed by the United Nations to act as the first point of contact for aliens trying to communicate with Earth.
By Heidi Blake
Published: 11:30AM BST 26 Sep 201
Mazlan Othman, a Malaysian astrophysicist, is set to be tasked with co-ordinating humanity’s response if and when extraterrestrials make contact.
Aliens who landed on earth and asked: “Take me to your leader” would be directed to Mrs Othman.
She will set out the details of her proposed new role at a Royal Society conference in Buckinghamshire next week.
The 58-year-old is expected to tell delegates that the proposal has been prompted by the recent discovery of hundreds of planets orbiting other starts, which is thought to make the discovery of extraterrestrial life more probable than ever before.
Mrs Othman is currently head of the UN’s little known Office for Outer Space Affairs (Unoosa). …/…”
http://tinyurl.com/2u3cwuk
Remember Harry Bates ? “I am the Master.” ? (grin)
Remember the saying by Ian Fleming in his first James Bond book, “Casino Royale” ?
“Once is happenstance
Twice is coincidence
The third time is enemy action.”
‘Now, back to our regular schedule !) (grin)
Best,
L’Amerloque
20100927 17h30 Paris time (CET)
That sounds like a right doss of a job.
Yup, I was wondering when aliens would make an appearance. All we need now is the apple crumble brutaliser aka the sh**p worrier.
Pointman
Here’s my lunchtime good news brainsplat:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/businesslatestnews/8027896/Millionaire-Segway-owner-dies-in-freak-accident.html Oh, the humanity and all the people!
I fink the aliens versus US Air Force story just proves US Air Farce officer veterans have access to better med’s through the VA than we snuffies do.
Hi L. !
Yeah, sounds like another boondoggle to screw the taxpayers.
and
Hi P. !
Yeah, “aliens” can usefully replace “global warming” as a means of control. There can be far, far more creativity involved than with “acidic oceans” or the “water supply” !
Best,
A.
Pointman says:
September 28, 2010 at 2:08 am
And the ‘science’ has already been done by Heinlein, Asimov, Brin, Gibson et al.
Pointman
You’re having a conversation with someone you’d assumed was sane and then …
Pointman
Pointman,
That video was awful! Everyone knows we NEED Pixies. How else are we to make Pixie Dust? That’s right, Pixie Dust…the stuff that fuels electric cars. As it is we’re already overtaxing our resources of unicorn farts.
You know, in Chinese, watermelon is 西瓜 , which could also be translated as Western Idiot.
Dr. Dave says:
September 28, 2010 at 2:52 am
Dave, I don’t know how to break this to you so you might as well have it straight. Unicorns went extinct just before the Polar bears and it was the same culprit, evil humans.
Pointman
“The Big Debate: on the eve of Cancun, can we cut carbon in time?”
http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/newenergyfuture/the-big-debate-on-the-eve-of-cancun-can-we-cut-carbon-in-time-2090771.html
This journo actually believes something was agreed at Copenhagen. With that grasp of real politics, the article is a jaw dropper. And they call us ‘denialists’ …
Pointman
Pointman:>Hi Ras, what’s this “‘pre-quake trembler’ that’s hit the Grauniad”?<
While not privy personally, 'zummat's oop' as they say over there (points vaguely in any direction). The ratio of mean and nasties being all mean and nasty (the Poodle Shampooer, Moonbat, etc), has got the 'patent trembler indicator' (TM) limbo'ing wildly.
Heck even Warren 'Breakfast' Buffet is doing Jack Nicholson impressions like 'Why? Can't we all just, get along?'
I expect things to start going a bit wild within a few weeks.
If I am wrong, it will just be me being par for the course. *grins*
rastech says:
September 28, 2010 at 3:21 am
Your antennae may be correct. I hear they’re all scrambling to pick up the refugees from the Times. Repositioning or taking a slightly different stance, or doing the Texas Turkey Trot or whatever.
There’s even a conspiracy theory that Mr. Delingpole may be moving newspapers but that’s too fantastic even for the Granuid …
Pointman
and anyway, if he moved – think of all those people they’d have to unban before he could take his devoted subjects over with him. The IT problem would be insurmountable …
Pointman
From Pointmans link to the independent I noticed…
“a staggering $10.5 trillion low carbon investment will be needed globally to allow climate stabilisation. This will provide huge opportunities for new green industries – much of it is necessary in a world facing growing pressure on resources. But each year of delay adds another $500 billion,”
This works out as $1750 each, for all 6 billion of us.
IF we hurry…
If we do not rush in to saving the planet from CO2 it will cost us even more, how convenient.
NoIdea
Did Lewis Carol know about Bilderberg? Was he against AGW? Is the Walrus supposed to be Al Gore? I have NoIdea
The Walrus and The Carpenter
Lewis Carroll
The sun was shining on the sea,
Shining with all his might:
He did his very best to make
The billows smooth and bright–
And this was odd, because it was
The middle of the night.
The moon was shining sulkily,
Because she thought the sun
Had got no business to be there
After the day was done–
“It’s very rude of him,” she said,
“To come and spoil the fun!”
The sea was wet as wet could be,
The sands were dry as dry.
You could not see a cloud, because
No cloud was in the sky:
No birds were flying overhead–
There were no birds to fly.
The Walrus and the Carpenter
Were walking close at hand;
They wept like anything to see
Such quantities of sand:
“If this were only cleared away,”
They said, “it would be grand!”
“If seven maids with seven mops
Swept it for half a year.
Do you suppose,” the Walrus said,
“That they could get it clear?”
“I doubt it,” said the Carpenter,
And shed a bitter tear.
“O Oysters, come and walk with us!”
The Walrus did beseech.
“A pleasant walk, a pleasant talk,
Along the briny beach:
We cannot do with more than four,
To give a hand to each.”
The eldest Oyster looked at him,
But never a word he said:
The eldest Oyster winked his eye,
And shook his heavy head–
Meaning to say he did not choose
To leave the oyster-bed.
But four young Oysters hurried up,
All eager for the treat:
Their coats were brushed, their faces washed,
Their shoes were clean and neat–
And this was odd, because, you know,
They hadn’t any feet.
Four other Oysters followed them,
And yet another four;
And thick and fast they came at last,
And more, and more, and more–
All hopping through the frothy waves,
And scrambling to the shore.
The Walrus and the Carpenter
Walked on a mile or so,
And then they rested on a rock
Conveniently low:
And all the little Oysters stood
And waited in a row.
“The time has come,” the Walrus said,
“To talk of many things:
Of shoes–and ships–and sealing-wax–
Of cabbages–and kings–
And why the sea is boiling hot–
And whether pigs have wings.”
“But wait a bit,” the Oysters cried,
“Before we have our chat;
For some of us are out of breath,
And all of us are fat!”
“No hurry!” said the Carpenter.
They thanked him much for that.
“A loaf of bread,” the Walrus said,
“Is what we chiefly need:
Pepper and vinegar besides
Are very good indeed–
Now if you’re ready, Oysters dear,
We can begin to feed.”
“But not on us!” the Oysters cried,
Turning a little blue.
“After such kindness, that would be
A dismal thing to do!”
“The night is fine,” the Walrus said.
“Do you admire the view?
“It was so kind of you to come!
And you are very nice!”
The Carpenter said nothing but
“Cut us another slice:
I wish you were not quite so deaf–
I’ve had to ask you twice!”
“It seems a shame,” the Walrus said,
“To play them such a trick,
After we’ve brought them out so far,
And made them trot so quick!”
The Carpenter said nothing but
“The butter’s spread too thick!”
“I weep for you,” the Walrus said:
“I deeply sympathize.”
With sobs and tears he sorted out
Those of the largest size,
Holding his pocket-handkerchief
Before his streaming eyes.
“O Oysters,” said the Carpenter,
“You’ve had a pleasant run!
Shall we be trotting home again?’
But answer came there none–
And this was scarcely odd, because
They’d eaten every one.
He he P. The Inde’ link has racked up a total of 4 comments….our own Ras’ and L!
In for chat later bud?
Sure S.
Pointman
Walt: I’m intrigued, as usual.
Crown: Other places to visit would be south west Wales amazing and full of castles, the city of York and the city of Durham and definitely the lake district.
Check to all of that: I’ve been all those places except Durham, where the cathedral on the river is really worth visiting.
By the way, gang, I hope you have noted me new avatar. It’s a G&T, of course.
Britain’s offshore windpower costs twice as much as coal and gas generated electricity
Off shore wind farms cost twice as much to produce electricity as gas and coal powered stations and will need subsidies for at least 20 years, a major report warns.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/energy/windpower/8028328/Britains-offshore-windpower-costs-twice-as-much-as-coal-and-gas-generated-electricity.html
Nice avatar Amanda, very woody.
Locusts, it get worse. There is no way to get peaker developers to step up to the plate, as there is now no economic incentive whatever for them to do so. We used to have 119 peakers to stabilise and load match baseload output to match demand, but 40+ are shutting down in the next 5 years, from what I see. Ergo, the grid will be unable to load-match wind and other renewables to the customers’ requirements.
If I were Governor Patterson channeling Thomas Dewey, I would slap eminent domain onto the present RGGI’s and carbon trades in place and held by the wind farms and assign all those revenues to building new peaker plants and using the balance to build up a fuel slush fund for them. There IS no wind option, it is a wind-plus-thermal-peaker-plant option. Ergo, the wind farms should pay the full ticket.
Otherwise, we do not have a grid. We may as well all take torches to our houses and businesses.
Death to communists.
European wind farms and UK wind farms–England is not part of Europe, nor Eire–must do the same to save the grid for the EU.
Locusts, don’t worry, you’re okay. Walt’s kidding and anyway, it’s a long way from Boston to Beijing …
Pointman
The core issue is no one has yet done a systems sim which shows exactly how much peaker capacity is needed to stabilize this grid against all operational contingencies against the addition of X generation capacity of intermittent power source output.
Not even and especially the windtards.
Too good to be lost in the Disqus twaddle at the DT.
Pointman
**********************
richardscourtney
just now aphilips:
No, I m not “overstating [my] case”.
I have merely stated demonstrable facts supported by my provision of clear references including a direct quotation from two modelers who are strong proponents of AGW.
Your assertions which you attribute to the IPCC are twaddle.
The fact is, as I explained, that none of the models emulates the climate of the Earth.
You may not like that fact, but it is true for the reasons I explained.
And the fact that the models include SOME physical principles is not relevant. The climate system is complex. Indeed, the climate system is more complex than the human brain (the climate system has more interacting components – e.g. biological organisms – than the human brain has interacting components – e.g. neurones), and nobody claims to be able to construct a reliable predictive model of the human brain.
Certainly nobody would claim such a model of the brain could work if they were unable to model how blood circulates around the brain.
Similary, climate models really are rubbish predictors of climate behaviour because nobody knows cloud behaviour and clouds directly modulate climate.
Please note that the ability of a computer model to appear to represent existing reality is no guide to the model’s predictive ability. This seems to confuse you because you assert that it is acceptable to use of ‘fiddle factors’ to obtain an apparent match of modelled indication of past mean global temperature and measured mean global temperature. But mere appearance really does NOT indicate that a model has predictive skill.
For example, the computer model called ‘F1 Racing’ is commercially available. It is based on physical principles (if it were not then the racing cars would not behave realistically), and ‘F1 Racing’ is a much more accurate representation of motor racing than any GCM is of global climate. But the ability of a person to win a race as demonstrated by ‘F1 Racing’ is not an indication that the person could or would win the Monte Carlo Grande Prix if put in a real racing car.
Similarly, an appearance of reality provided by a GCM cannot be taken as an indication of the GCM’s predictive ability in the absence of the GCM having any demonstrated forecasting skill.
Furthermore the climate models are based on assumptions that may not be correct. The basic assumption used in the models is that change to climate is driven by change to radiative forcing. And it is very important to recognise that this assumption has not been demonstrated to be correct. Indeed, it is quite possible that there is no force or process causing climate to vary. I explain this as follows.
The climate system is seeking an equilibrium that it never achieves. The Earth obtains radiant energy from the Sun and radiates that energy back to space. The energy input to the system (from the Sun) may be constant (although some doubt that), but the rotation of the Earth and its orbit around the Sun ensure that the energy input/output is never in perfect equilbrium.
The climate system is an intermediary in the process of returning (most of) the energy to space (some energy is radiated from the Earth’s surface back to space). And the Northern and Southern hemispheres have different coverage by oceans. Therefore, as the year progresses the modulation of the energy input/output of the system varies. Indeed, mean global temperature rises by 3.8 deg.C from June to January each year and falls by the same amount from Jenuary to June each year (which is 4 times the total rise in mean global temperature over the past century).
Hence, the system is always seeking equilibrium but never achieves it.
Such a varying system could be expected to exhibit oscillatory behaviour. And, importantly, the length of the oscillations could be harmonic effects which, therefore, have periodicity of several years. Of course, such harmonic oscillation would be a process that – at least in principle – is capable of evaluation.
However, there may be no process because the climate is a chaotic system. Therefore, the observed oscillations (ENSO, NAO, etc.) could be observation of the system seeking its chaotic attractor(s) in response to its seeking equilibrium in a changing situation.
Very importantly, as I have repeatedly pointed out here, there is an apparent ~900 year oscillation that caused the Roman Warm Period (RWP), then the Dark Age Cool Period (DACP), then the Medieval Warm Period (MWP), then the Little Ice Age (LIA), and the present warm period (PWP). All the observed rise of global temperature in the twentieth century could be recovery from the LIA that is similar to the recovery from the DACP to the MWP.
And the ~900 year oscillation could be the chaotic climate system seeking its attractor(s). If so, then all global climate models and ‘attribution studies’ utilized by IPCC and CCSP are based on the false premise that there is a force or process causing climate to change when no such force or process exists.
But the assumption that climate change is driven by radiative forcing may be correct. If so, then it is still extremely improbable that – within the foreseeable future – the climate models could be developed to a state whereby they could provide reliable predictions. This is because the climate system is so extremely complex.
so, it is pure hubris to assume that the climate models are sufficient emulations for them to be used as reliable predictors of future climate when they have no demonstrated forecasting skill.
Richard
Amanda, my laptop hasn’t the resolution. What’s a G & T? Sorry.
Pointy, those Asian kids are like the roundeyed ones I went to school with LOL I especially like the one giving the Milano peace sign.
Gin and tonic ? :>)
Ozboy, you should approach a newspaper and ask them if you can’t build an online version of it around this blog.
For money, or course.
It’s amazing what you can do with a few bags f fertiliser and ammonium. H/T Scud.
Pointman
Since everyone wants a good conspiracy theory then the weird weather we have had is down to H.A.A.R.P in Alaska.
Or more likely not just the Earth balancing the heat budget as evenly as it can. My prediction a cold winter but not as bad as last years in the northern Hemisphere. Southern hemisphere to get some heatwaves stalled in Say South America and Australia.
Having committed myself it will now to spite me be the opposite.
In case it disappears from the JD blog…..
richardscourtney
40 minutes ago
Recommended by
16 people
aphilips:
No, I m not “overstating [my] case”.
I have merely stated demonstrable facts supported by my provision of clear references including a direct quotation from two modelers who are strong proponents of AGW.
Your assertions which you attribute to the IPCC are twaddle.
The fact is, as I explained, that none of the models emulates the climate of the Earth.
You may not like that fact, but it is true for the reasons I explained.
And the fact that the models include SOME physical principles is not relevant. The climate system is complex. Indeed, the climate system is more complex than the human brain (the climate system has more interacting components – e.g. biological organisms – than the human brain has interacting components – e.g. neurones), and nobody claims to be able to construct a reliable predictive model of the human brain.
Certainly nobody would claim such a model of the brain could work if they were unable to model how blood circulates around the brain.
Similary, climate models really are rubbish predictors of climate behaviour because nobody knows cloud behaviour and clouds directly modulate climate.
Please note that the ability of a computer model to appear to represent existing reality is no guide to the model’s predictive ability. This seems to confuse you because you assert that it is acceptable to use of ‘fiddle factors’ to obtain an apparent match of modelled indication of past mean global temperature and measured mean global temperature. But mere appearance really does NOT indicate that a model has predictive skill.
For example, the computer model called ‘F1 Racing’ is commercially available. It is based on physical principles (if it were not then the racing cars would not behave realistically), and ‘F1 Racing’ is a much more accurate representation of motor racing than any GCM is of global climate. But the ability of a person to win a race as demonstrated by ‘F1 Racing’ is not an indication that the person could or would win the Monte Carlo Grande Prix if put in a real racing car.
Similarly, an appearance of reality provided by a GCM cannot be taken as an indication of the GCM’s predictive ability in the absence of the GCM having any demonstrated forecasting skill.
Furthermore the climate models are based on assumptions that may not be correct. The basic assumption used in the models is that change to climate is driven by change to radiative forcing. And it is very important to recognise that this assumption has not been demonstrated to be correct. Indeed, it is quite possible that there is no force or process causing climate to vary. I explain this as follows.
The climate system is seeking an equilibrium that it never achieves. The Earth obtains radiant energy from the Sun and radiates that energy back to space. The energy input to the system (from the Sun) may be constant (although some doubt that), but the rotation of the Earth and its orbit around the Sun ensure that the energy input/output is never in perfect equilbrium.
The climate system is an intermediary in the process of returning (most of) the energy to space (some energy is radiated from the Earth’s surface back to space). And the Northern and Southern hemispheres have different coverage by oceans. Therefore, as the year progresses the modulation of the energy input/output of the system varies. Indeed, mean global temperature rises by 3.8 deg.C from June to January each year and falls by the same amount from Jenuary to June each year (which is 4 times the total rise in mean global temperature over the past century).
Hence, the system is always seeking equilibrium but never achieves it.
Such a varying system could be expected to exhibit oscillatory behaviour. And, importantly, the length of the oscillations could be harmonic effects which, therefore, have periodicity of several years. Of course, such harmonic oscillation would be a process that – at least in principle – is capable of evaluation.
However, there may be no process because the climate is a chaotic system. Therefore, the observed oscillations (ENSO, NAO, etc.) could be observation of the system seeking its chaotic attractor(s) in response to its seeking equilibrium in a changing situation.
Very importantly, as I have repeatedly pointed out here, there is an apparent ~900 year oscillation that caused the Roman Warm Period (RWP), then the Dark Age Cool Period (DACP), then the Medieval Warm Period (MWP), then the Little Ice Age (LIA), and the present warm period (PWP). All the observed rise of global temperature in the twentieth century could be recovery from the LIA that is similar to the recovery from the DACP to the MWP.
And the ~900 year oscillation could be the chaotic climate system seeking its attractor(s). If so, then all global climate models and ‘attribution studies’ utilized by IPCC and CCSP are based on the false premise that there is a force or process causing climate to change when no such force or process exists.
But the assumption that climate change is driven by radiative forcing may be correct. If so, then it is still extremely improbable that – within the foreseeable future – the climate models could be developed to a state whereby they could provide reliable predictions. This is because the climate system is so extremely complex.
so, it is pure hubris to assume that the climate models are sufficient emulations for them to be used as reliable predictors of future climate when they have no demonstrated forecasting skill.
Richard
“Since everyone wants a good conspiracy theory then the weird weather we have had is down to H.A.A.R.P in Alaska.
Or more likely not just the Earth balancing the heat budget as evenly as it can. My prediction a cold winter but not as bad as last years in the northern Hemisphere. Southern hemisphere to get some heatwaves stalled in Say South America and Australia.
Having committed myself it will now to spite me be the opposite.
s/b
“Since everyone wants a good conspiracy theory, then the weird weather we have had is down to H.A.A.R.P in Alaska, or more likely not just the Earth balancing the heat budget as evenly as it can (fragment – suggest revising). My prediction, a cold winter (sic) but not as bad as last year’s in the northern Hemisphere. Southern hemisphere to get some heatwaves stalled in Say South America and Australia (sic but FUBAR).
Having committed myself, it will now to spite me, be the opposite.”
Pointman
@-Pointman says: September 28, 2010 at 5:58 am
“Too good to be lost in the Disqus twaddle at the DT.
…
richardscourtney
just now aphilips:”
Too good ?!
It starts of wrong, and then goes downhill…
Quote-“….And the fact that the models include SOME physical principles is not relevant. The climate system is complex. Indeed, the climate system is more complex than the human brain (the climate system has more interacting components – e.g. biological organisms – than the human brain has interacting components – e.g. neurones), and nobody claims to be able to construct a reliable predictive model of the human brain.”
Nonsense.
To claim that each biological organism is a SEPARATE active component of the climate system and imply that they cannot be agglomerated into a total quantifiable factor is either mistaken of intentional misdirection.
Does it make ANY sense to claim that each and every Panda in the world has to be seperately consider for its climate impact, or is the totality of the contribution to the carbon cycle from all pandas something quantifible that can then be ignored as to small to be significant at the climate level ?
If Courtney/Phillips is going to invoke each biological organism, I invoke every dentritic connection AND the local neural signaling chemicals that have a physically local effect by diffusion. That bumps up the number of interactional systems in the brain to something several orders of magnitude greater than the climate system.
Anyone who can make the claim that the climate system is more complex than the brain (of higher mammals at least) has a deficient understanding of both.
However much hand-waving, and invoking chaos and complexity someone does, the climate is reducible to thermodynamics. The key parameters are energy and temperature. Brains are not reducible in the same way to quantifiable energy states, The behaviour of a brain can be analysied in terms of its energy use and temperature, but that – unlike the climate – is not the ‘output’ that is of interest.
Brains states, what we think, are not reducible in the same way to quantifiable energy states.
I havent even started in the differences in the memory in each system. Climate states may depend on past states, but the interactional complexity of climate temporal contingency is qualitatively different and inherently simpler, than a system that has processes that encode into memory past states and past responses.
But it get worse….
Quote-“…For example, the computer model called ‘F1 Racing’ is commercially available. It is based on physical principles (if it were not then the racing cars would not behave realistically), and ‘F1 Racing’ is a much more accurate representation of motor racing than any GCM is of global climate. But the ability of a person to win a race as demonstrated by ‘F1 Racing’ is not an indication that the person could or would win the Monte Carlo Grande Prix if put in a real racing car.”
Gross misunderstanding of how modeling is used.
If the F1 racing game is a good simulation of the real F1, then putting the real accelerations, braking and steering data from a real F1 race into the game would produce the same track positions and lap time.
There is a false comparison being made between the real driver and the slob on the sofa playing on his XBox. But it is if the data input to the game and the real car data are the same that results in testing the accuracy of the computer simulation.
Either the writer doesn’t understand how to test computer simulations, or is indulging in intentional obfuscation.
Quote-“Furthermore the climate models are based on assumptions that may not be correct. The basic assumption used in the models is that change to climate is driven by change to radiative forcing. And it is very important to recognise that this assumption has not been demonstrated to be correct. Indeed, it is quite possible that there is no force or process causing climate to vary. I explain this as follows.”
Wrong.
It has been demonstrated to be correct and NOT just an assumption.
Two obvious examples (there are others), The pattern of ice-ages and interstadial periods matches the orbital/axial changes, the changes in solar forcing is what triggers the last ~million years of ice-age cycles.
The climate cools for a couple of years after major volcanic eruptions, just as the SOx emissions persist in the atmosphere. Unless you are going to claim each cooling after a big eruption is a coincidence the influence on radiative forcing is the only explanation of such OBSERVED events.
This also contradicts their earlier point that simulations omit cloud effects (wrong), if cloud effects are important in varying climate then the only mechanism is a change in radiative forcing.
The second part gets worse… I may return to it later if I can re-summon the will to live….
-sigh-
G’day Izen,
Is that you over at the Tele?
Then you really are flying too close to the sun.
Oz
izen says:
September 28, 2010 at 7:42 am
Jealous Izen? A heavyweight appears and the trolls cluster but he’s Teflon and authorative. Too late matey, he’s already a power in the land. You couldn’t crack him at the DT, don’t bother with the damage limitation here. We’ve all been watching as has the blogosphere. Sic transic gloria mundi …
Pointman
Or should I call you Icarus?
Pointman
Hi All,
In an effort to identify “the enemy” namely the big players in the Climate scam I stumbled across the following item pointing to Europe as the source of all evils, however I am still none the wiser as to where to place my crosshairs on the individuals or corporations responsible, to this end I posted the following item on the DT in the hope that Captain Sherlock may offer some clues, unfortunately the good Cptn, has disappeared from the thread and my post has vanished to about page 16, so I re-post here and hope that Walt, Pointman and others may help identify the top players in the AGW scam, as the sum of all parts is clearly greater than Huhne, Cameron, Clegg, Brown, Blair, Miliband, Hansen, Jones et al.
Some have suggested a “tea party” type rally in London, a start, possibly, although doomed to failure if one isn’t fully aware of who or what one is going up against.
So here is the post, all comments will be greatly appreciated, and may save me from the “midnight knock” and an appearance on telly wearing orange overalls.
sherlockcaptain,
If you have not yet seen this report by The Hoover Institution, Stanford University, please give it the once over and perhaps you can shed light on the mysterious combinations of letters and numbers and lyrical code words, names like “dgxii, dgxi fp5 fp6 fp7 life enrich”
What do they mean? and who are the individuals controlling the EU?
“The EU Connection in Climate Research”
by John Rosenthal
Millions of euros come with an agenda,
“no single individual, no matter how wealthy, has the resources that it takes to politicize weather and corrupt the entire global scientific enterprise. Indeed, in the grand scheme of things, one of the named suspects is not even particularly wealthy. Despite the prominent role he has played as a spokesperson for climate alarmism, it is far more likely that the former vice president is a passenger on the global warming bandwagon, not a driver.”
“If no individual has the money it takes, states — especially if they pool their resources — most certainly do. The real culprit in the corruption of the scientific process and the promotion of climate alarmism is named again and again in the East Anglia e-mails and documents. But the culprit is named with many different names, mysterious combinations of letters and numbers and lyrical code words, names like “dgxii, dgxi fp5 fp6 fp7 life enrich.” What do they mean? In the final analysis, it is but one and the same multinational organization that lurks behind all these designations: the European Union”
http://www.hoover.org/publications/policy-review/article/43291
Best to all, Dave,E.
Pointman yes yet agin youse finds me spellin to sux and me grammar arful, but we’se use a difrunt kind wheres r comes fram.
Or I maybe I should reread it before I post it because it never fails that I have missed out a few words but to my dying days I believe commas are for sissy’s. Careful, matey – Oz 😉
Also I have no real idea what Haarp does or does not do but if the conspiracy is good enough for Jesse Ventura it is good enough for me.
Pointman I stand by my weather prediction but as the leaves are falling early here looks like I may have to eat crow before long. We have had a 20F drop in less than a day.
In January 2007, the U.S. Climate Action Partnership (USCAP), a consortium of high-profile corporations (BP, Lehman Brothers, DuPont, GE, et al.) and environmentalist groups such as World Resources Institute (WRI), Environmental Defense (ED), and the Natural Resources Defense Council (NRDC), issued a press release.
The implied intention of USCAP is to transform pollution into a commodity. This has nothing to do with protecting the environment. The true intention is twofold: ensure that the poorest nations of the Earth never develop, and lay the foundation of the next speculative financial bubble. In February, at a Global Legislators Organization for a Better Environment (GLOBE) event, World Bank President Paul Wolfowitz praised carbon trading, claiming that it could generate as much as $200 billion, much of which would go to African nations.
Africa could sell its pollution rights and get more money than it currently does in development assistance; but of course, this would mean that Africa would not be allowed to develop.
GLOBE was created in 1989 by, primarily, Al Gore and a number of British Parliamentarians, for the express purpose of preventing the world’s poorest from raising themselves out of their condition.
“Sustainable development” is the equivalent of mass murder.
The environmentalist movement is anything but the grassroots movement it pretends to be. The biggest and most influential groups receive tens of millions of dollars in funding every year, and the boards of trustees and directors reflect this.
Who is running the WRI, the NRDC, and ED?
Bankers, hedge-fund managers, big oil – the list goes on… But it goes even deeper than this, for the biggest student movements, such as Focus the Nation, Step It Up, and the Stop Global Warming Now movement, are financed, organized, and deployed by hard-core Synarchist Felix Rohatyn.
These unwitting young people, organized by New Age fascist freak-show Bill McKibben and his Middlebury College cronies, are designated to be the Jacobin shock troops which tear apart the social order with their lunatic demands of “pandas, not people!”
Now, with the ongoing collapse of the U.S. sub-prime mortgage sector and the overall bankruptcy of the world economy, these networks are rushing to set up a new source for speculation; but more importantly, they are attempting to force these CO2 emissions agreements down the throats of governments as a way of finishing off the nation-state system.
Hedge funds such as Al Gore’s Generation Investment Management are vultures, scavenging for the last bits of meat left on the carcass of the world economy before it all goes down.
Throughout history, there have been those who, with an eye to specific political objectives, have used terror or the threat thereof against target populations. These threats, real or imagined, have characteristically been outsiders or specters lurking on the periphery, ready to pounce, like the bogeyman in the shadows of a young child’s bedroom.
However, today, for the first time in history, humanity is confronted with an aspect more terrifying than any external threat, for as the anti-human Club of Rome wrote in its 1991 publication, The First Global Revolution,
“in searching for a new enemy to unite us, we came up with the idea that pollution, the threat of global warming, water shortages, famine and the like would fit the bill.
But in designating them as the enemy, we fall into the trap of mistaking symptoms for causes. All these dangers are caused by human intervention and it is only through changed attitudes and behavior that they can be overcome.
The real enemy, then, is humanity itself.”
A Turning Point in History
On Aug. 15, 1971, the Bretton Woods System, established by President Franklin Delano Roosevelt, was destroyed by the Anglo-Dutch empire-linked advisors of Richard Nixon, most notably Henry Kissinger and George Shultz.
It was a deliberate act by the would-be “post-industrial” wreckers of the nation-state system. It was in this context, with a civilization shattered by the 1960s counterculture and the string of political assassinations, wars, and crises which accompanied it, that human abortions such as Kissinger, Shultz, and Felix Rohatyn (to name but a few) could step in and usurp control of the world economy.
However, these madmen had a problem: by taking down the Bretton Woods System and by getting the United States involved in the folly of the Vietnam War, the physical economy was beginning to collapse from a lack of capital investment.
Now, with physical economic output falling, and debt service increasing, the financiers had two options:
either go with increased investments in the physical economy machinery-infrastructure, power production, etc.,
or go with the economic policy of Nazi Finance Minister Hjalmar Schacht, known today as fiscal austerity.
Naturally, having never really joined the human race, these fellows decided to send us all on a one-way trip back to the jungle.
Their plan was not to invest in the population or the physical economy, but rather to embark on a path which, as Lyndon LaRouche recognized in the 1960s, would lead inevitably to fascism, and by a similar route as occurred in Germany in the late 1920s and early 1930s – where the “nature-loving” and “purity-based” ecology-freak counterculture, swarmed en masse into the Hitler Youth and the Nazi Party, and ultimately, on behalf of international financiers, carried out the Schachtian economics that ground up human beings for the state.
The essence of the matter is this: If technological progress is halted, it becomes impossible to sustain a population at the same standard of living. Thus, if the financiers demand that debts come before people, and at the same time the revenue pool from which those payments are made is shrinking, then the people will inevitably be gouged, through wage reductions, price inflation, increasing taxation, and so on.
Kissinger, Shultz, and Rohatyn, not to mention “Fat Albert” Gore, have no scruples about mass-murder or larceny; for them it is simply business. The difficulty was the Constitutional tradition of the United States.
Patriotism, in the tradition of Abraham Lincoln and Franklin Roosevelt, has always been an aspiration for the entire human race; to replace such a conception with the overtly racist imperialism now rampant in this nation could only be the work of clever criminality, the source of which is found in the rotted heart of the British Empire.
Cecil Rhodes and the Cult of Eugenics
The British East India Company, modeled on the older Levant Company of Venice, had been raping India since the early 1700s; but it wasn’t until 1763 that this Venetian faction was able to seize control over the Empire as a whole.
It was the rapacious looting policies of this faction that forced the American colonies to declare their independence.
British imperialist Cecil Rhodes, founder of the British Roundtable,
set out to establish institutions which would ensure that his white supremacist policies would outlive him.
After the American Revolution, the British launched a renewed drive against India, completely conquering the Subcontinent by the first years of the new century. It was in this period that the opium trade, for which India was the linchpin, became the dominant pursuit of the Empire.
After Lincoln’s victory over the Confederacy in the American Civil War, and even more so after the 1876 Centennial Celebration, it became clear that the United States could not be conquered militarily. The British responded by launching the pseudo-science of eugenics, and also the Round Table movements of Cecil Rhodes and Lord Alfred Milner.
In the 1880s and 1890s, this elite movement created:
the Eugenics Society, founded by Sir Arthur Balfour of the Venetian-origin Cecil family
John Ruskin’s Pre-Raphaelite Brotherhood, opposing the entire European Renaissance
the Round Table of Cecil Rhodes, Alfred Milner, Balfour, and their friends, strategists from the African and Asian empire, seeking world power for the Anglo-Saxon master race.
These men shared a bored contempt for the existence of mankind, like the satanic Zeus of Aeschylus’ Prometheus Bound. Their idea was to convince the United States to join them in their quest for Anglo-Saxon world government.
The Round Table of Cecil Rhodes was centered on the imperial networks of South Africa, which later spawned raw materials monoliths such as,
Rio Tinto Zinc
Anglo American
Lonrho
DeBeers
It was this inhuman cabal which ran the Boer War, conducted genocide against the black population, and later set up the horrendous Apartheid regime.
One of the wealthiest, most influential, and evil men of his day, Rhodes was a virulent racist, or as he and his friends termed it, a race patriot, who wrote in a document called Confession of Faith:
“I contend that we are the finest race in the world and that the more of the world we inhabit the better it is for the human race. Just fancy those parts that are at present inhabited by the most despicable specimens of human beings; what an alteration there would be if they were brought under Anglo-Saxon influence, look again at the extra employment a new country added to our dominions gives. I contend that every acre added to our territory means in the future birth to some more of the English race who otherwise would not be brought into existence.
Added to this the absorption of the greater portion of the world under our rule simply means the end of all wars; at this moment had we not lost America I believe we could have stopped the Russian-Turkish war by merely refusing money and supplies. Having these ideas what scheme could we think of to forward this object?
“Why should we not form a secret society with but one object: the furtherance of the British Empire and the bringing of the whole uncivilized world under British rule, for the recovery of the United States, and for the making of the Anglo-Saxon race but one Empire?
“Africa is still lying ready for us, it is our duty to take it. It is our duty to seize every opportunity of acquiring more territory and we should keep this one idea steadily before our eyes: that more territory simply means more of the Anglo-Saxon race, more of the best, the most human, most honorable race the world possesses”
Over the course of his life, Rhodes commissioned seven wills to be written, all expressing this same purpose.
His fortune was to be used for setting up the Rhodes Trust and Rhodes Scholarship as a means of recruiting American and Commonwealth Anglophiles into the imperial faction:
“Let us form the same kind of society, a Church for the extension of the British Empire.
A society which should have its members in every part of the British Empire working with one object and one idea we should have its members placed at our universities and our schools and should watch the English youth passing through their hands just one perhaps in every thousand would have the mind and feelings for such an object, he should be tried in every way, he should be tested whether he is endurant, possessed of eloquence, disregardful of the petty details of life, and if found to be such, then elected and bound by oath to serve for the rest of his life in his Country.
He should then be supported if without means by the Society and sent to that part of the Empire where it was felt he was needed.”
In his will, Rhodes authorized provisions for:
“…the extension of British rule throughout the world. The colonization by British subjects of all lands where the means of livelihood are attainable by energy, labour, and enterprise and especially the occupation by British settlers of:
the entire Continent of Africa
the Holy Land
the Valley of the Euphrates
the islands of Cyprus and Candia
the whole of South America
the islands of the Pacific not heretofore possessed by Great Britain
the whole of the Malay Archipelago
the seaboard of China and Japan
the ultimate recovery of the United States of America as an integral part of the British Empire”
It was this same British network of families (including the Huxley clan, the Cadburys, the Darwins, and the Wedgewoods) and banking interests, with offshoots in North America and the rest of Europe, which spawned the early 20th-century eugenics movement.
This set ran the zoos, and said men were base animals, and they directed British colonial strategy and official science. Eugenics claimed that the English upper class ruled because they were genetically superior.
The English masters humored themselves with this doctrine enforced on their beaten-down subjects, in India, which the English reduced to starvation and political impotence by closing native industries; and in South Africa under white rule.
These were the very same families who funded Hitler, and exerted their influence over the German banking system to have him appointed Chancellor in 1933. In 1917, while World War I was still raging, Lord Lothian, one of Lord Milner’s most important protégés, suddenly departed from his previously fanatical anti-German rhetoric. As soon as Germany is crushed, he said, let us rearm and remilitarize it under the most reactionary leaders, and point Germany towards war with Russia and France.
This was done 16 years later, in 1933.
At the same time, the Anglo-Saxon eugenics doctrine was imported into Germany, to help shape Nazi rule.
The cabal called for the sterilization or euthanizing of unfit members of society, to spare the expense of their lives, much like today’s privatized HMO system functions; and these policies have always been a doctrine of racial aggression.
In 1932, the Third International Eugenics Conference was held in New York City, chaired by the rabid bigot Fairfield Osborn, whose like-minded nephew would later create the Conservation Foundation.
Osborn was president of the American Museum of Natural History and a close colleague of the notoriously racist Julian Huxley, and the co-host of the conference, the Harriman family.
America’s would-be oligarchs, like the Harriman family, were unabashed in their
support for eugenics in the early 20th century. Here is N.Y. World coverage of Averell
Harriman’s mother Mary, lending her support in 1915 to the Eugenics Society’s
campaign for sterilizing “defectives.”
On Aug. 23, 1932, the New York Times published a speech delivered by Osborn at the conference.
“Eugenics,” Osborn declared, “aids and encourages the survival and multiplication of the fittest; indirectly, it would check and discourage the multiplication of the unfitted. As to the latter, in the United States alone, it is widely recognized that there are millions of people who are acting as dragnets or sheet anchors on the progress of the ship of state.”
Osborn, in language all too familiar among today’s environmentalists, continued with his analysis of the 10 million Americans unemployed at the time:
“While some highly competent people are unemployed, the mass of unemployment is among the less competent, who are first selected for suspension, while the few highly competent people are retained because they are still indispensable. In nature, these less-fitted individuals would gradually disappear, but in civilization, we are keeping them in the community in the hopes that in brighter days, they may all find employment. This is only another instance of humane civilization going directly against the order of nature and encouraging the survival of the un-fittest.”
It was not accidental that a number of leading Nazi race scientists in attendance were honored, and the presidency of the International Federation of Eugenics Organizations was conferred upon Nazi Dr. Ernst Rudin.
The policies of the eugenicists were derived explicitly from those of the Confederate slave holders, whose descendants, such as Teddy Roosevelt, continued to be virulent racists and proudly traitorous Anglophiles. In fact, it was Gifford Pinchot, a eugenicist himself, who first coined the term “conservation,” deriving it from a term used by the British in their colonial management of India!
The eugenicists sought not only to “scientifically prove” the superiority of the Anglo-Saxon race, and thus its right and responsibility to rule the Earth, but also the incapacity of the “lesser races” to utilize technology or govern themselves.
The British were in full agreement with Hitler on most issues, including the threat posed by Asian development. When Hitler met with Lord Lothian on Jan. 29, 1935, Lothian had recently completed a term as Undersecretary of State for India, directing the repression of India’s nationalist leaders, Gandhi and Nehru, just after Lothian’s close collaborator Lord Halifax had been Viceroy.
Hitler knew he was speaking to a member of the inner circle of the Empire when he suggested to Lothian that,
“Germany, England, France, Italy, America and Scandinavia… should arrive at some agreement whereby they would prevent their nationals from assisting in the industrializing of countries such as China, and India. It is suicidal to promote the establishment in the agricultural countries of Asia of manufacturing industries.”
(Transcription in Sir James R.M. Butler, Lord Lothian, Macmillan and Co., London, 1960, pp. 332)
Hitler also would have recognized that the British were actively engaged in exactly those policies he had outlined.
Lord Lothian himself had expressed this viewpoint long before, writing in 1918 about the problem of getting the United States to give up its support for the advancement of colonial-sector peoples, and to adopt the British approach of crushing them with free trade.
Lothian wrote,
“The real problem is going to arise from the treatment which must be accorded to politically backward peoples….
”[T]here is a fundamentally different concept in regard to this question between Great Britain … and the United States …. as to the necessity of civilized control over politically backward peoples…. The inhabitants of Africa and parts of Asia have proved unable to govern themselves … because they were quite unable to withstand the demoralizing influences [i.e. their reprehensible desire to possess modern industry – ed.] to which they were subjected in some civilized countries, so that the intervention of an European power is necessary in order to protect them from those influences…. The American view … is quite different….
The extent of this work after the war, sometimes known as the white man’s burden, will be so vast that it will never be accomplished at all unless it is shared…. Yet America not only has no conception of this aspect of the problem but has been led to believe that the assumption of this kind of responsibility is iniquitous imperialism. They take an attitude towards the problem of world government exactly analogous to the one they [earlier] took … toward the problem of the [first] world war….
“If they are slow in learning we shall be condemned to a period … of strained relations between the various parts of the English-speaking world. [We must] get into the heads of Canadians and Americans that a share in the burden of world government is just as great and glorious a responsibility as participation in the war.”
(Lothian to Lionel Curtis, Oct. 15, 1918, in Butler, Lord Lothian, pp. 68-70)
Lothian, secretary of the Rhodes Trust, and his collaborator Lord Halifax, would both serve as ambassadors to the United States over the course of World War II, tasked with “handling America” and guiding it into its destined imperial role.
to read on: http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sociopolitica/esp_sociopol_depopu45.htm
crownarmourer says:
September 28, 2010 at 8:15 am
Well if you don’t know what HAARP does or doesn’t do, why bother posting about it? Patently, where you come from, commas are for sissies, as are apparently full stops, question marks and indeed, any attempts at proper sentence construction. We all start somewhere, even if it’s proud but thick “thumb up your ass” county Ignorantia but it’s not an incurable condition. It’s called ignorance and that is easily curable. It’s quite distinct from stupidity, which is of course, untreatable.
Pointman
Pointman if you had a significant other and I am making the assumption that you are not gay (I could be wrong but erring on the side of caution here) and they said “does my arse/ass look big in this”. I assume you would reply truthfully with a “yes it does”.
Your tact and pedantic nature know no bounds.
Pointman says:
September 28, 2010 at 1:24 am
“Despair of normal political solutions. We’re heading into a Winter of discontent in Europe and there’s not much the Pols can do about it since the coffers are empty”.
Australia has an unfortunate coalition of Fabians and the Greens at the present. Nobody seems to read the Greens manifesto at all. When my son tasked a Green with ” Do you want to shut down Olympic Dam?” the Green did not even know it was a huge mining operation…. Australia managed the recent GFC well because we were busy digging holes in the ground for the Chinese. There are no Nuclear power stations in Aus, just coal and gas and a bit of hydro. And the f*cking wind farms. The greens want to stop the coal. Now.
I had hoped that a severe northern winter this year would give them all pause for thought, but Red Julia is so keen on power that she is setting up for a carbon tax.
I despair at the doctrinaire stupidity of it all …..
Marcus
You’re right Crown, I’m not gay though I’ve nothing against that sort of stuff, as long as they don’t pinch my derriere. It would be a waste of my talents as a raconteur and gentleman, never mind the real fun I’ve shared with women.
I’m sure, if your ass was actually too big, the latter attribute would oblige me to prevaricate. Well, reasonably sure. Why this dialogue has moved from sissies to homosexuality eludes me though. Perhaps it’s a northern thing …
Pointman
mlpinaus says:
September 28, 2010 at 9:30 am
Hi Marcus,
They’re fanatics and have the same weakness as all fanatics – they don’t know how to stop. They simply cannot. You have to stop them.
Pointman
Scouse Billy says:
September 28, 2010 at 8:20 am
Scouse Billy,
Thank you for that most thought provoking insight, clearly individual efforts to “Rage against this Machine” would be futile,
while passive submission is unacceptable, how to derail this Juggernaut from a position of relative poverty compared to the unlimited funds of the “enemy” is the question.
Dave,E.
Pointman good music this commercial says it all really….
Hi gang,
I popped into JD’s blog and found that the troll called Fabian Solutions, from whom he have heard far too much (and yet oh so little), accusing Crownarmourer thus (in bold, the obnoxious twerp):
‘You are a homophobe, and homophobic hate speech such as in your post is illegal under the Coroners and Justice Act 2009’.
This was in response to Crown who had simply asked: ‘If you criticize Lord Handlescrote does that make you homophobic[?]’
Well, I’d had enough. So I wrote — and I record it here because soon enough it will probably be censored out of existence:
To Fabian Solutions:
Now look here. We’ve put up with your dross, your bad manners and your attempts at bullying long enough.
Crownarmourer is in no way a threat to anybody decent and law-abiding, and that includes gays — so take your Coroners Act and shove it. I’m willing to bet that said Act would not withstand Supreme Court scrutiny in any country, such as the United States, where free speech is actually respected — I’m sure it would be ruled unconstitutional here. No one should try to pry into any mind to see what may or may not be there: that is tyranny.
But then, you and your kind care nothing for freedom. You are essentially a slave preaching slavery to mankind.
Take your mental thralldom, your pathetic second-hand diatribes and your unreflective, ignorant attitude somewhere else. We’re not interested. Report Reply
Edit
Saving 15% or more on someone else’s ass wouldn’t be very high on my bucket list but each to their own I suppose. Personally, short, squat and dowdily-dressed women don’t ring any of my bells …
The music says it all http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-WY1qn-k9qE&a=GxdCwVVULXdoMgoVZr_K9d8CXXSb1xvF&list=ML&playnext=30
Pointman
I think the solution to making our collective feelings felt to the Build A Burgers ignoring us smelly peons resides in further technological development extending the interaction between man and computer.
When I was a small child, there was a toy called Rock-Em Sock-Em Robots by Mattel. It consisted of two small plastic robots in the ring which you manipulated with two handles on each side of the ring, with a button, I think, for delivering the punches. When you connected with a good belt, the opponent’s head came off.
Digitally this could be extended to computer modules in the form of screens with a pneumatically-propelled boxing glove and compressor on either side of the monitor with a camera on the top, then making gifts of these to all the illustrious attendees of this shindig.
A simpler method of obtaining the same effect without creating opportunities for cheating is Boxing by Mail. This consists of wooden parcels with spring-loaded boxing gloves which propel themselves forward with sufficient pugilistic punchitude when the recipient of this Happy Birthday Surprise opens the lid.
Haarp….
))
Locusts: Thanks, but I don’t understand you: ‘very woody’. Qu’est-ce que c’est?
Scouse Billy says:
September 28, 2010 at 8:20 am
Thank you. As Dave E says ‘ what to do’…. I have always lived by the maxim “to live well, you must live unseen”……. Perhaps not..
Marcus
Amanda
You certainly showed her!
Locusts: I hope so — I was fed up!
Amanda thanks for the nice defense, I think Fabe babe is a p*ss take nobody could be that stupid, to help drive up the number of comments by being so over the top annoying.
Walt they still made Rock em Sock em robots in my day a classic but my generation came in on the dawn of computer games and the dusk of old fashioned toys. However you still used to cheat at monopoly or scrabble on a rainy day.
Pointman she was really 5’10” Abe Lincoln was really 7’6″.
Walt: Yes, gin and tonic. I won’t say ‘you haven’t lived’ — that would only apply really to Barolo of a great vintage (e.g. Giacomo Conterno 1988) or a nice Pinot Noir — but really, do have one some time soon. (They’re lovely in hot weather; when it’s chilly I’m more inclined to whisky.) Mine — in my avatar picccie — has a lemon-peel curl in it. Don’t use sugar-free tonic: you need the real deal or don’t bother. Cheers, luv!
Dave,
Thank you. I try to disseminate as much of this as possible to as wider an audience as possible. Not so long ago it was pretty much only Sherlock posting this kind of stuff on a mainstream platform. He was derided by many, I recall. Yesterday I noted that even msher was singing his praises ref. Maurice Strong. A lot of my stuff comes from LaRouche or the late Christopher Story. Sherlock’s right to bang on about Crown Agents but they are just a part of the picture. Of course this lot have been at it for centuries – feudalism did not end in the middle ages…
The Windsor Blood:
Elizabeth Alexandra Mary Windsor, or Queen Elizabeth II, is, like all the royal families of Europe, is the bloodline of that pivotal figure in the takeover of Britain, William III, Prince of Orange, the man who signed into existence the Bank of England. She is also blood related to earlier Black Nobility invaders of the British Isles, like William the Conqueror. She is an ancestor of Robert the Bruce, Kenneth MacAlpin, and the Kings of Scotland, and is related to the Irish Kings going back to the ancient coronation ceremonies at Tara. The Queen Mother, formerly Lady Elizabeth (El-lizard-birth) Bowes-Lyon, comes from a seriously Brotherhood-reptilian bloodline, a Scottish aristocratic family which connects with the Bruces, Stuarts, MacAlpin, and down through the Kings of Ireland.
Her father was Claude George Bowes-Lyon, the 14th Earl of Strathmore, and her mother was Nina Celia Cavendish-Bentinck. The wealth and power of many of these lines owes much, sometimes all, to William of Orange and those who controlled him. It was William who made a Bentinck the first Earl of Portland in recognition of services rendered and the second Bentinck/Duke of Portland married into the Cavendish fortune to become the Cavendish-Bentinks, the line of the Queen Mother’s mother. This makes the Windsors blood relatives of the Cavendish family, the Dukes of Devonshire of Chatsworth House. The title Earl of Strathmore was given originally to the Queen Mother’s ancestor, Patrick Lyon, in recognition of his support for William of Orange.
In short, the ancestors of the Windsors were fundamental in putting the Black Nobility’s William of Orange on the British throne after which the Bank of England and the power of the City of London was firmly established. Queen Elizabeth, through her Hanoverian ancestors, and others, carries the bloodline of the Black Nobility in Germany and all these strands, be they Irish, Scottish, German, Danish, Swedish, whatever, go back via the Black Nobility Venetians through to the Phoenicians, the Egyptians, to Sumer, and the reptilians.
The bloodlines are incredible and Prince Charles can trace three thousand lines of decent alone from Edward III (1312-1377), the monarch who formed the Brotherhood grouping the Order of the Garter. Nineteen presidents of the United States have also been related to Edward III and therefore the line of Prince Charles. The Windsors even have a blood connection to that Brotherhood stooge, Mohammed, the official founder of Islam.
William of Orange, William III, died in 1702. He and his wife, Mary, left no heirs and so Mary’s sister, Anne, became queen. Anne was the last of the Stuart monarchs because although she had 17 children by her husband, George of Denmark, she survived them all.
In 1714 the scene was set for the takeover of the British Crown by the German Black Nobility family, the Hanovers. They were closely connected with the House of Hesse which would become the launch pad for the House of Rothschild. The first Hanoverian king was George I. He couldn’t even speak English and refused to learn. He began life as minor German nobility, a great grandson of the infamous James I, and ended it as King of Great Britain.
This guy kept his wife, Sophia, in jail for 32 years for her alleged adultery with the Swede, Philip von Konigsmark, who was never seen again and was rumoured to be under the floorboards of George’s Hanover Palace. George II became king in 1727 and died in 1760 while sitting on the toilet suffering from acute constipation. Yes he died of the shits – or rather the lack of them – and there can’t be many monarchs you can say have literally died on the throne. His grandson became George III, whose reign spanned the American War of Independence and a massive expansion of British power. George IV and William IV followed before we come to Queen Victoria, who reigned as Queen of Britain and Queen-Empress of the Empire from 1837 to 1901.
By this time the British Empire controlled 40 per cent of the Earth’s land mass and more than a fifth of the population. It was the biggest empire the world had ever seen. Victoria married Prince Albert of the German Black Nobility House of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha and had nine children who married into the other royal families (family) of Europe. Victoria has an image of being very straight-laced, but like the Rothschilds, Winston Churchill, and other apparent pillars of the establishment, she was a frequent user of cocaine and heroin.
Drug parties were held at the royal summer residence at Balmoral in Scotland. The first son of Victoria and Albert became Edward VII, a Grand Master of English Freemasonry, who reigned until 1910. It was now, during the First World War, that the name of the royal house was changed from the German Saxe-Coburg-Gotha to the House of Windsor. The German name, Battenberg, was also changed at the same time, 1917, to the anglicised, Mountbatten. The only reason for this sudden switch was public relations. The Germans and the British were slaughtering each other in the trenches of northern France at the time.
In 1936 came Edward VIII who abdicated to marry an American divorcee, Wallis Simpson, and he was replaced by George VI, the father of Queen Elizabeth, and husband to Elizabeth Bowes-Lyon, the present Queen Mother. George died in 1952 and his eldest daughter was crowned Queen Elizabeth II at Westminster Abbey in 1953. By then she had married a fellow member of the Black Nobility, Prince Philip of Greece and Denmark, Baron Greenwich, Earl of Merioneth, Duke of Edinburgh.
He was born in Corfu, the son of Prince Andrew of Greece and Princess Alice of Battenberg, the great granddaughter of Queen Victoria. Philip, a Battenberg, took the anglicized version of Mountbatten and, after his marriage to Elizabeth, the British Royal house became the House of Windsor-Mountbatten. Or rather it was Saxe-Coburg-Gotha-Battenberg. This arranged marriage was orchestrated by Lord Louis ‘Dickie’ Mountbatten, Prince Philip’s uncle.
Philip is extremely well represented by Black Nobility (reptilian) genes, one reason why he has found it so irritating to have to walk behind his wife according to royal protocol. The Queen is the great granddaughter of Queen Victoria and Philip is also related to Victoria through his mother. One thing to remember is that the royal ‘families’ of Europe are not families at all, they are one family, offshoots of the same bloodline operating to the same Agenda.
Some will do this more enthusiastically than others, of course, but basically that’s how it works. An example of this is the way Prince Philip’s clan became the royal family of Greece. After British Intelligence had organized a coup against the ‘Greek’ King, Otto I (a German!), and removed him from the Greek throne in 1862, they selected Prince William, the nephew of the Danish king, to become King of Greece.
I know all this sounds ludicrous, but to the Black Nobility this is like a multinational company filling its executive vacancies. Prince William of the Danes became King George I of Greece. (No, you didn’t misread that.) William, sorry George, er, er, yes George, married a granddaughter of the Russian Tsar Nicholas I and Prince Philip is related to seven Tsars. He has massive bloodline connections into Germany and also Norway, Denmark, Sweden, and to most of the royal lines of Europe.
One of his ancestors is Christian, Count of Oldenberg, who died in 1167, and, as I mentioned earlier, one of the two people who founded the European dynasties of the Black Nobility. Philip was in line for the Greek throne when, while he was still a child, another coup removed the Greek monarchy and the family headed for France where he began his education at a private school in Paris. In the years 1931 and 1932 Philip’s four older sisters married into the German-Austrian aristocracy.
Margarita married a grandson of Queen Victoria, the Czech-Austrian prince, Gottfried von Hohenlohe-Langenburg
Cecilia married a great grandson of Queen Victoria, Georg Donatus, Grand Duke of Hess-by-Rhine
Sophie’s partner was Prince Christoph of Hesse
Theodora married Berthold, the Margrave of Baden
Berthold’s father was Max von Baden, the German Chancellor during World War I. Max von Baden founded a school near Lake Constantine in Germany via his personal secretary, Kurt Hahn, who was trained at Oxford, the Brotherhood’s premier training ground for new recruits. Hahn was head of the intelligence desk at the Berlin Foreign Ministry during the war and was Max von Baden’s advisor at the Rothschild-controlled Versailles Peace Conference. It was to their fascist school in Schloss Salem that Prince Philip was sent to be ‘educated’.
At the time it was under the control of the Nazi Party and Hitler Youth, with Nazi race science’ on the curriculum. It had quite an impact on Philip as we shall see. Kurt Hahn had left before Philip arrived, but he was not finished with the ‘education’ business. Hahn, a fascist to his core, went to Scotland and started the Gordonstoun Academy, the school where Prince Charles was sent to be indoctrinated.
Hahn the fascist also became an advisor to the British Foreign Office. After four years at Hahn’s German Nazi school, Philip was sent to Gordonstoun on November 16th 1937 as the approach to the Second World War gathered pace. The British public school system, and its equivalent in the United States and elsewhere, is a vital part of the Brotherhood network. It is the recruiting and training ground designed to turn out either psychopaths or mentally and emotionally broken people who have learned to do exactly as they are told. You have only got to talk with some of those who have experienced it to know what a mind control operation it is.
There are support groups to counsel people who have been mentally and emotionally scarred for life by what happened to them. It is legalized child abuse. In Britain, the children of the aristocracy and wealthy families (and others who know no better) are taken from home at the age of six and dumped at their first boarding or ‘prep’ school. ‘Prep’ means preparation to be indoctrinated. Already they are feeling unloved and frightened as their parents drive away, leaving them in a strange place among strange people. I repeat these kids are just six. Can you imagine the effect of that on a little child?
From the formal, loveless life of prep school they go on to a public school. Eton and Harrow are the most famous and Prince William, the heir to the throne behind his father, Prince Charles, was sent to Eton. At these prep and public schools, the children either conform to the rules, regulations and thought control or they incur the wrath of the black gowns, the men in black. The ‘fagging’ system in which younger boys become slaves to the older ones has encouraged the desire to dominate and control others and introduced youngsters to the ‘joys’ of inflicting pain and torture on others.
A friend of mine who was determined not to be broken by the endless beatings he received from both teachers and older boys, was forced to lie in ice-cold baths in an attempt to break his spirit. It is from these schools, and the Oxford and Cambridge Universities, that the often deeply imbalanced people emerge who enter the positions of financial, political, military and royal power.
The psychopaths among them give the orders and those of broken spirit do as they are told without question, just as they have been trained to do. The lack of female company encourages homosexual activity and many of these people find it very difficult to relate to women. I’m not condemning homosexuality, by the way, everyone to their own as long as they don’t force it on anyone else. I’m just explaining what happens, that’s all. There are some strange goings on at such schools which are designed to affect the minds of the children involved. Sexual abuse is definitely part of that.
Tony Blair, the Brotherhood chosen one who became British Prime Minister on May 1st 1997, attended the public school called Fettes College in Edinburgh, Scotland, where one of his close friends was the school chaplain, the Very Reverend Ronald Selby Wright, a senior figure in the Church of Scotland. Selby Wright was later revealed to be a persistent paedophile abusing boys at Fettes and elsewhere.
Blair, who is close to the Windsors, went on to Oxford University and became a barrister at the ancient Inns of Court at Temple Bar in London. The public school system is horrific and schools such as Gordonstoun and Schloss Salem, which Philip attended, are at the extreme end even of that.
Prince Philip’s family were supporters of the Nazi Party and by 1935 Prince Christoph, the husband of his sister Sophie, was a colonel in the SS on Himmler’s personal staff and head of the Forschungsamt, an Elite intelligence operation controlled by Hermann Goering. The Forschungsamt gathered intelligence on Jews and others the Nazis wished to destroy, worked with the Gestapo, and also spied on members of the Nazi Party itself. It was they who carried out the famous Night of the Long Knives when Hitler removed his key opponents. Christoph and Sophie named their eldest child, Karl Adolf, after Adolf Hitler and Prince Philip would be involved in his education.
Christoph’s brother, Philip of Hesse, was related to the King of Italy and he was the official liaison between the fascists of Italy and Germany. At the same time, the British King, Edward VIII, was also a Nazi supporter and Philip maintained communications with him after his forced abdication in 1936. The official reason for this was Edward’s relationship with the American divorcee, Wallis Simpson.
After just 325 days Edward went into exile to the Rothschild mansion in Austria and later settled in Paris. Edward’s Paris home was bought by Mohamed Al Fayed in the 1990s and Diana and Dodi Fayed visited the house on the day they died. One of Edward’s biggest supporters was the fascist paedophile and Satanist Lord Louis Mountbatten, uncle of Prince Philip and Philip’s route into the British Royal Family. Mountbatten was a great grandson of Queen Victoria and Prince Albert and was born at Windsor Castle in 1900.
While Mountbatten (Battenberg) was apparently fighting on the British side during the war, he was maintaining communications with his, and the Windsors’, German clan via his sister Louise, the Crown Princess of Sweden and wife of King Gustav. Louise was Prince Philip’s aunt. At the end of the war, in June 1945, the British king, George VI, the father of Queen Elizabeth and husband of the Queen Mother, sent the former MIS officer, Anthony Blunt, to the Kronberg Castle of Philip’s sister Sophie, and her Nazi husband Prince Christoph of Hesse, to recover correspondence between the British Royal family and their Nazi relatives.
Blunt was the ‘Surveyor of the Queen’s Pictures’ and a world expert in the paintings of Poussin, the initiate who painted pictures called The Shepherds Of Arcadia which very much related to the mysteries of Rennes-le-Chateau. Blunt was exposed as a member of a ‘KGB’ unit inside British Intelligence along with Burgess, Maclean and Philby. The fifth man, who was never named, was Lord Victor Rothschild (see And The Truth Shall Set You Free). In fact it was a Brotherhood unit and not, ultimately, answerable to the KGB. When Blunt was finally collared in the 1980s, Queen Elizabeth apparently demanded that he was not questioned on his clandestine mission to Kronberg Castle.
Lord Mountbatten, this arch manipulator for the Black Nobility, held key positions at vital moments in history. He was Supreme Commander in south east Asia during the Second World War (where Prince Philip also served); he was the last Viceroy of India and the Governor-general during the British withdrawal; and he was First Sea Lord, the pinnacle of the British Navy, at the time of the British invasion of Suez in 1958.
Mountbatten was killed by an IRA bomb in Ireland in 1979, but as these terrorist groups subcontract ‘hits’ between each other the true origin of the assassination cannot be stated with certainty.
True, Crown, and normally I say nothing or just take a humourous poke — but tonight I thought, scr*w it. That dame is gettin’ on me nerves!
Amanda for the ultimate G&T I recommend 1 slice of lemon one small bottle of tonic and about 3/4 of a pint of gin in a pint glass mix and enjoy. That’s my record for a G&T.
By the way, I see that I have made several typos in my last few posts (‘he’ instead of ‘we’, a conjunctive relative pronoun that shouldn’t be there, an extra letter, etc.). Please correct as you all see fit.
Crown: You’re a wonder!
Walt:
I love the sound of these Rock ‘Em Sock ‘Ems. What fun! We can imagine that one is Bje on JD’s blog and the other is Fatuous Secretions (aka the troll I tried to land a punch on tonight). Maybe they have them on EBay.
Billy,
You do know the Windsors are all from Sligo originally?
Pointman
Scousebilly slight correction on this line methinks when you use it next….
She is an ancestor of Robert the Bruce ?
The Pointman Files or crocheting for beginners.
Pointman:
never mind the real fun I’ve shared with women.
Oo-er. In the book we’ll never see, The Pointman Files….
Crown: giggle.
What happened to my G&T? Why is my rabbit showing?
Amanda says:
September 28, 2010 at 10:54 am
Schatzie, not a book rather a graphic novel. Times have changed …
Pointman
My name must be Alice: ‘And the ones that mother gives you/ don’t do anything at all’
Oh gosh, a graphic novel… even racier!
Crown, oops decendant.
This site may be of interest re. globalisation and covert politics:
http://www.isgp.eu/
Crown, it’s a wonder you are still standing up after one a’ those LOL
Scousebilly, maybe it’s because I have worked with so many dingdongs like the ones you itemize but in the American inherited wealth community, but my impression is that whoever loses is the one who has to lead. I also do not think people slow down and think “But what if our leaders don’t know what is going on or what to do anymore than we do ?”
I wish someone somewhere had control over anything to the extent they present themselves as having. The fact is, they don’t, not without a backing consensus of the followers. All Hitler’s bodyguards had to do was say, “Adolf, could you kindly do us all a favour and have a nice, hot steaming cup of STFU,” give him a squirt with an MP38, then go have lunch.
When you refer to Black Nobility, are you referring to this fellow, the REAL king of rock n’ roll? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTnoSsaeOn0 Looked at my watch and it was quarter to twelve,,,,
Amanda says:
September 28, 2010 at 10:59 am
“Oh gosh, a graphic novel… even racier!” – not quite what you’re thinking Liebling but I might arrange something in that direction. Of course, being a representational painter, I will need a few models. My criteria are quite strict and I’m not talking about whips and chains. Curvaciousness and sexuality would of course be essential. Beyond that, a certain patience is required – we’re talking painting after all.
Pointman
to the painter, Mr Pointman:
One of the best songs ever written — songs, music, I’m not that fussy — is it up there with Mozart or the best Grateful Dead? — who cares? My feeling is: one of the best. Unforgettable. So is this:
Oh sorry, Oz. Forgot again. Mea culpa.
Amanda, Nintendo has some sort of Wii game where you can actually box the stuffings out of someone 5,000 miles away (virtually) without landing a blow.
A word about sports and exercise injuries in general: where you REALLY mess your back or muscles up badly is when you make a move expecting to connect with something (like running, boxing, dancing, whatever) and there is nothing there to connect with. If you shadow box, always be half way retracting your blow as you are trying to connect. Watch a real boxer practice shadow boxing, and you will see what I mean.
So if you get the game, be advised.
http://www.2ksports.com/news/donkingboxing/291
G’day folks,
Just been amusing myself over at DT. The world really isn’t short of self-righteous twits who want to get back at the world and push everyone else around, is it? Freud would have a field day with some of them.
Gold’s Gym used to run an ad in the Village Voice to recruit new female members in their boxing programme which went something like “Where else can you punch the stuffings out of a Wall Street stockbroker?” Women do pretty good at punchitudinous fisticuffs, Amanda. Try it on sometime.
Oz, you’re so right, love. But: it’s endless fascinating, isn’t it?
Hey, Walt, sure thing: I’ve got the muscles. I’ve even paddled in an Indian war canoe before now!
All art is difficult and you’ll never learn it in art skool. It’s like ignorance and stupidity, can’t be taught and even then it’s painful. Having done it, the best you can expect is that a successful effort destroys you for the ordinary things, to rework Hemingway.
Pointman
Walt, I should recommend that game to my ‘uncle’ (well technically he is: married to my aunt who is 2 years older than I am): he likes fencing because when you get a jab in you really bruise the other person. I think he’s a twerp but he thinks he’s just fine, and funny as well. Ain’t it always the way?
Ozboy says:
September 28, 2010 at 11:26 am
Well, the Net IS empowering to the extent no one can see you unless you let them. I can’t take the DT anymore, personally. Trouble is, I went off on uproarious tangents too, then wondered how the hell I got there.
Thing is, the DT isn’t about ideas anymore. It’s all personalities, seems like, these days. One more Iggyjack or jackthegurningyak posting and I was ready to go into Donald Duck mode.
The big guys did see my stuff, though, so I got done what I wanted to. It’s still sort of working, indirectly: my CPanel hit and IP address annunciator tells me I got 58 downloads of my coal/biomass plant biz plan, all by heavy hitters (the students have disappeared, for some reason; I think the search engines are getting hip to college kids using the Net for readymade homework and are indexing things accordingly).
Amazing thing, the Net. I fink, though, it is like any other tool: how it is useful or not is a direct reflection of the users’ intent and level of goodwill. Effing Mulemolester haas his very own socialist Maoist website which is a spewing volcano of malice and ill will up in Kelowna, and I’ll wager his neighbors think about burning him out every other day LOL
Pointman: These days art skool is the LAST place where you’ll ‘learn’ art. I believe in draughtsmanship and of course practice and study, but that’s the antithesis of finger-painting and making ill-drawn political ‘statements’… and I say this as someone whose mother went late in life to art school and got a first in art, though there is not much diff. in talent between her and me….
I don’t suppose you could/would wish to show us a painting or two, Pointman? We’ve seen Fenbeagle’s work (or some of it). Personal, I know, and perhaps you’d rather not… but I’d be interested.
Fen’s up later this week BTW – Oz
That’s 58 this month, excuse me.
Yeah, Pointman, I second Amanda.
And anyway, the point I was going to make: artistry in a certain way can’t be taught because you either have the eye and the yearning to capture beauty that goes with it or else you don’t. Beyond a certain age, no one can teach anyone to be a certain kind of soul; one can make a citizen but an artist is something else altogether.
Oz: oh goody, Fen is so much fun.
This would involve me walking around Schloss Punktmann, taking pictures of things hanging on the wall, making a selection and loading dodgy JPEGs of oils and sketches up onto some site somewhere. Anybody got any ideas about the latter? Don’t do sites. Help me out on this one if I email you Walt?
Pointman
Bear: I understood rather little of what you were saying about the Internet but found it very interesting all the same. You are some sort of Yogi, I’m convinced of it. You have all the knowledge Captain Sherlock claims to have only more reason, better judgement, and a better sense of humour. He is amusing; you are fab.
Go for it, Pointman!
Pointman, it happened again. I buy stacks of gift debit cards for online purchases, as I got burned really bad once by a dicey vendor who topped out the card then disappeared LOL (yes, it had to do with Montreal), and I used two different cards for totally different priced lists of items and I came up with a remaining balance of $10.12 of both within 2 usages of each quite by synchronicity.
Probably a side effect of HAARP warping crystal evanescent folds in the Musiphere from you picking an Alanis song, my favourite Hungarian enchantress and Canuck git-arrh plinkety-plunkin’ snowfox.
Pointman says:
September 28, 2010 at 11:46 am
Sure thing, Pointman. If I have space I can make it so you can just download your JPEG’s from my site, no problem.
If you really want a site I can do that up, also, but I recommend my ISP Register4less.com They are inexpensive and I have used them since 2002 or so. Never a glitch or a crash. Doug and Nancy are pretty cool folks, too. They call you right back if you use their toll-free with serious questions.
Check out http://www.ssturbine.com for my masterpiece in Web development.
Thanks, Amanda. The only Yogi’s I know coached baseball or stole picnic baskets in Jellystone Park.
No charge, Pointy. I need myInterNet embroidery, as I am working under stress right now LOL The Net’s a good pressure relief valve, too.
Digital Boxing Bear says:
September 28, 2010 at 11:55 am
Strangely enough Yogi bear, I love Hungarian music. Not the happiest going but it has real content. As the Sun goes down in Wllawoora, it echoes nicely across the Lethe. I don’t know what it means but it’s beautiful. If I email you a few JPEGs, can you repost the links?
Pointman
Digitial Boxing Bear:
May I ask: why are you a different Bear at almost every post? I change my DT avatar a lot but your change your name even more! Would you prefer that I not refer to you as W***?
Check out the noisy WMV’s at the test cell page. That footage was a pain to edit, but it worked out okay.
Pointman, you are hopelessly romantic. No wonder you’re a painter! You oughter be ‘Paintman’.
Bear: Yeah, they were two special sort of Yogis but I think you make a third. :^)
I change the name so I don’t turn into a search-engined monstrosity, Amanda. You don’t want to know how my experiment in African “foreign aid” turned out LOL
Walt’s okay, though.
If you like Alanis’s arrangements and songs, you’ll love Erwin Schulhoff, a Czech composer from the Weimar era. I’m big on Smetana and of Schonberg’s early work, not the experimental stuff. Yought to try on Klezmer some time, too.
You’re a sweet person, Amanda. Thanks!
I think the Net is a better mirror than it is a communications device, though LOL
Pointman: Have just listened to the piece you linked to. Beautiful voice: not a melody in the way I normally think of it — more an emotion or point of view expressed through notes — and, I think, incredibly hard to sing well. The human voice is an instrument in its own right, as this piece reminds one.
Digitial Bear: ‘better mirror’: how so?
Walt, I *am* a sweet person. So are you.
Klezmer: heard of that. Something to do with giggling? Will look into your recommendations, though the dog is snoring and I’m beginning to think I ought to brush her teeth and put her to bed….
For me it is a mirror as I use it to sort out who I am through how I connect with others and what feedback they give me.
I also use it as a troubleshooting tool for sorting out what my past was about and how what I did then impacts my future.
It also de-trivializes the human experience. You can do this sort of thing as in what this song is about:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAKxsWSZuys Another song to keep one’s sanity by.
Walt, your gizmo looks suspiciously like the Turbo Encabulator; you’re not having a lend of us are you?
And why is Tasmania always the last place in the “developed” world to hear about the latest fads? Like, say, Global Warming?
Ozboy,
No wonder Monty and Errol Flynn were such tough characters. What a challenging environment LOL It’s supposed to be summer there isn’t it, or spring?
Spring. Think late March in the Northern Hemisphere.
Brrrr – Oz
They ARE turbo encabulators, except they work as designed, some of the time.
Those are what peaking plants’ prime mover consists of. Stick ’em into their mount North of the power turbine which is linked to the gearbox and genset, and Bob’s yer uncle.
BeAR: (That was deliberate): Barbra’s all right but she’s so full of herself — I suspect the Miami Vice guy found that out.
Mirror: like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPbH1g5iicw
A.
You’re so right. It’s part of the time she grew up in, and coping with mega-success when it was a complete novelty. Don’t forget chanteuses especially what they called “belters” back in the day made squat until 1968 or so. Her early TV work she may as well have done for food, until she got a proper lawyer. TV and touring weren’t money trees for eons. She also is scared to death on stage all the time, being bombastic is how some over-compensate. She always gets sick before a performance still.
And yeah, she’s a liberal arsehole. LOL Tey are all full of lots more than just themselves.
Night folks.
Pointman
Don Johnson missed his calling, as a comedian. There was a film called Primal Instinct or something with him as the lead, lampooning Basic Instinct with Michael Douglas and was it Daryl Hannah? I laughed until I cried, it was so funny.
Thanks for sharing the Velvet Underground tune. White Light/White Heat and Sweet Jane are two of my faves, but I never heard this one before. Never even heard of Nico LOL I know who John Cage was, though. Try on Karlheinz Stockhausen sometime.
Ciao, Pointy.
@-OZ
“G’day Izen,
Is that you over at the Tele?
Then you really are flying too close to the sun.”
No, I haven’t been back since stating my reasons for leaving. Fair enough – Oz
If it was me I would be posting as izen, I don’t have any other user-names. I’m afraid that I am an exclusive feature of the libberty gibbert blog! -grin- especiaslly since the OU science forums were ‘upgraded in their software to a more ‘user-friendly’ ‘chat-room’ form.
Not sure what all this ‘Icarus’ stuff is about, the courtney/phillip stuff is hardly stellar, and I like to think I’m more Dedaelius than his son…
The argument from courtney is grammaticaly well written, rhetoricaly well constructed and scientifically well wrong. Look at some of the claims –
Climate is more complex than the brain;
Modeling is like computer games;
Radiative forcing may have no role in climate change;
there is a 900 year cycle of warm peaks;
Tosh, all of them, the 900 year cycle falls apart at the date of the last supposed peak, 900 years ago there was a warmer period in the Northern hemisphere, but the warm peak had already passed in the Southern hemisphere.
This is the problem with many of the claims that climate changes quasi-periodically, often what is identified are the see-saw changes where the North and South hemispheres exchange roles with one warming while the other cools, as with the infamous D-O events beloved of Singer and Avery of their ‘unstoppable global warming every 1500 years. The ice-core and diatom records show that the GLOBAL avaerage changes little, but the distribution of high-low temperatures flips from hemisphere to hemisphere.
This sort of well-written but unscientific guff is an unpleasently familiar feature from Creationist/ID vs Evolution forums. And this example shows the same charateristics. Internal contradiction as a factor is both invoked as a refutation of one point, and a denial it is even a significant factor in the next paragraph.
Pitiful stuff.
“Creationist/ID vs Evolution forums” – Oh God, shades of the late but not lamented BJE …
Pointman
@-Pointman
You may not like the comparison, but the evolution deniers and the AGW theory rejectionists have many of the same anti-science charateristics.
Icarus, thinly disguised ad homs are not helping your case. The good Doctor thrashed you last night. It was amusing to watch …
Pointman
Interesting new blog over at the DT. It’s about Steve McIntyre making the list of the most influential 50 people …
Pointman
@-Pointman says: September 28, 2010 at 9:04 pm
“Icarus, thinly disguised ad homs are not helping your case. The good Doctor thrashed you last night. It was amusing to watch …”
I can assure you I haven’t been posting anywhere as ‘Icarus’ – and phillip/courtney clearly does not have the scientific knowledge to ‘thrash me….
-grin-
I am almost tempted to have a look at the DT site to see this supposed fight.
almost, but not quite.
Icarus, Icarus, I wouldn’t waste a moment thinking about your honesty.
Pointman
Ah, the good Dr. Courtney is doing a lap of honour to a rapturous mob. Well done Sir!
Pointman
@-Pointman
My honesty isn’t in question, your judgement of whether another poster is me is, consider, do they have the same pretentious pompositity and encyclopedic scientific knowledge?
Or the style of grammatical infelicity with rebarbative prolixity and occasional succinctness?
If you read more closely I am sure your error will become apparent to you.
“do they have the same pretentious pompositity and encyclopedic scientific knowledge?”. Strange that you should ask Icarus but it’s yes to the former and yes to the lack of the latter. You’re not very good at this fibbing business, are you? Interestingly apposite number …
Pointman
Izen,
That was the thing that convinced me that Pointman was right. If it wasn’t you it was your white wingless guinea pig brother, for whoever it was shared an awful lot of characteristics with you.
@-Locusts says: September 28, 2010 at 9:34 pm
“Izen, That was the thing that convinced me that Pointman was right. If it wasn’t you it was your white wingless guinea pig brother, for whoever it was shared an awful lot of characteristics with you.”
Now I’m intrugued, I may even go and have a look….
Izarus
You do that! 😉
Daedalus would have been a more apt name, more chance of success!
“A Capper for Christie?”
“An anti-regulatory earthquake is stirring in New Jersey that could potentially free other states and regions from economically unsound energy restrictions and renewable mandates that have further burdened America’s already beleaguered consumers with higher costs.”
http://spectator.org/archives/2010/09/28/a-capper-for-christie
The Republicans are really whipping the horses on the anti AGW bandwagon. Sounds like another cap in the head for the Alarmists.
Pointman
Don’t forget, Pointman, it gets better. There are still more than a dozen major lawsuits on a megascale against AGW-inspired transparently predatory and non-justifiable economic pounces to be heard in verious venues across the land. Msher1 has the list of them. It will become pleasingly messy shortly.
The Cuccinnelli versus Unmanned fraud case is on appeal as well, and no doubt will end up being heard in a district Federal venue one step up from its original go-round shortly.
This has dire consequences for Bulkabooger banditos. So much of future genuinely conspiratorial pounces on private assets of we unwashed peasantry rely on the great carbon lie.
Locusts says:
September 28, 2010 at 9:47 pm
Locusts, before the cock crows, Icarus will deny you three times…
Pointman
Pointman,
Oh shit, does that mean he’s going to try to kiss me afterwards as well?
Only if you want to make up …
Pointman
Why there is not a major migration away from environmentally responsible pension-supporting investment funds going on now amazes me. When these collapse, the Boomers’ long-anticipated retirement homes will be washing machine boxes by the railroad tracks in abandoned urban areas instead of the seaside condos they had saved a lifetime for.
Cheer up, though. There is always a workaround for everything:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6nOXG3xVgI&feature=related Our next President?
While we are chatting about how Bulkabooger is planning out how to make money off the New Weimar Republic (i.e., the Western world), I thought this was pertinent:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/8029948/First-World-War-officially-ends.html
I think the Bank for International Settlements administrated this. Wonder what they are up to: http://www.bis.org/ Some music, maestro:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRHfynUGXBQ&feature=related Don’t worry, it can’t happen here….
Just looking it over, there seems to be a tiny sliver of greentardedness to BIS’s corporate culture, but there is a hard core of rationality and a spine of steel to this lot. I think there is hope…
Love their programme of hardening credit restrictions. All this rubbish of madhouse financing of speculative pink castles in the sky by greentard corn silo rats would disappear if E-Z credit were not available on anything except a matching funds lender-lendee relationship. I feel fairly sure BIS would love to shove derivatives trading and carbon offsets up every traders’ arse sideways.
I like this version better, for some reason:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2TQ3kjEp5Ik&feature=related She still hot and taut as a piano wire….
Hi Walt, not a bad version of the song. With a song like that, it’s hard to go wrong really.
Pointman
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2010/09/28/communicating-about-climate-science-part-i/
Ben Santer’s effort to save something from the wreckage. All undermined 1:52 mins into the piece by the magic phrase –
“… to establish some human culpability …”
Do the science and then see what it tells you.
Pointman
isen haven’t been around for a while….. things to do people to see and all that… am somewhat confused (not unusual i know) but isn’t “richardscourtney a scientist? are you?? just had a memory you were perhaps a social worker from sarf london!
btw the way the letter that ryhmes with bed on my pc has been infected by a lovley bottle of red hence i can’t spell your name correctly no offence intended chap!
theendisnighnot
Never fear, “z” is the pygmy of the alphabet!
Locusts… indeed how goes it in your part of the middle kingdom? Shanghai gets more bis(see)rre by the day are they doing this census thingy in BJ or is it just Shanghai it’s scaring the shit out of the girls who used to frequent Tongren Lu moved on during the expo!!!!!
thendisnighnot
The census, bastard thing! It’s turned my life upside down! Been up and down China trying to get visas sorted out!
It’s a national census, and they are having lots of problems getting people to comply. I’ve seen lots of banners, and flashing adverts telling people how wonderful it is to participate in the census. Reminds me of the old one child policy slogans that you can find in the small villages:
Having one child brings security in old age!
Yeah, I bet.
Walt,
Banking with Hitler:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8730885410534535770#docid=-18374135100600627
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8730885410534535770#
If small print were bigger it would be easier to read, and understand:
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/finance/ianmcowie/100007795/household-solar-power-a-shock-in-the-small-print/
Locusts
You mean, have the clauses, concerns, risks, and hidden costs in Large type at the top of advertising. And the dubious claims, unlikely promises, exaggerations, and less than honest data at the bottom in very small type?
….How will anyone ever be able to afford to pay the printing bill?
How will anyone ever be able to afford to pay the printing bill?
Simple, keep the current ratio of large print to small print the same! That way it’ll be survival of the honest!
Well I went and had a look at the JD/DT blog and I see the fun continues and the diksuks software is just as bad, no links at the top or ways of seeing more than a few posts at a time…
Slightly to my surprise the old login worked;
Here is my post from the DT –
———————–
Alerted to the gross calumny that I was posting under another name here after leaving and vowing never to return when the present ‘disqucion’ software started, I will first state that I am not Icarus, he/she is FAR more polite, and easily coopted by RC’s agenda than I.
This will be the last time I post here, but before I go…
Others have already posted the first section of the the all too easy task of Fisking’ RC’s twaddle from libertygibbert, but here’s a taster for the next episode…
The claim that because the Earth is never in thermodynamic equilibrium makes it impossible to ascribe a trend in temperature to thermodynamic changes in radiative forcings is nonsense.
A car or steam turbine is also never in thermodynamic equilibrium, that poses no obstacle to designing and analysing its function on thermodynamic terms.
To claim otherwise is either the result of ignorance, or deliberate dishonesty.
———–
RC then replied –
Quote-“Izen: Your post is plain silly. ”
…In fact, I said;
“Of course, such harmonic oscillation would be a process that – at least in principle – is capable of evaluation”
My argument must be very solid if the best you can do to assert that I wrote “twaddle” is to refute the opposite of what I said.”
Looks like a reasonable reply, a concession that – -at least in principle – the thermodynamic process is capable of evaluation. Which WOULD make my claim the opposite of what he said … but the NEXT paragraph after the one he quotes is-
Quote-“However, there may be no process because the climate is a chaotic system. Therefore, the observed oscillations (ENSO, NAO, etc.) could be observation of the system seeking its chaotic attractor(s) in response to its seeking equilibrium in a changing situation.”
which contradicts the previous paragraph. As so often with this sort of pseudo-scientific polemic RC writes stuff that is internally contradictory as well as wrong.
First chaotic systems also obey the 2LoT.
Secondly RC is ‘cherry-picking’ his own quotes, by having ambiguous and contradictory statements like these two he makes it impossible to pin him down as being wrong, because he never explicitly commits to a definitive statement.
Its all – “at least in principle capable of evaluation/however there may be no process…
Rarely does he make a substantive claim about AGW, just a lot of ambiguous and contradictory hand-waving to sow doubt and confusion.
Its an old technique in Creationist circles, now known as the Gish Gallop from its primary practitioner.
Of course to those with a preset view that AGW is wrong it is easy to read as confirmation of their bias. To those of us with experience of this pattern of (unconscious or intentional) obfuscation it is obvious that it is bereft of any scientific legitimacy.
Later in his statement he DOES make a testable claim about climate without prevarication. I will try and show how that falls apart next…
Pointman says:
September 28, 2010 at 11:52 pm
Joan Jett along with Chrissie Hynd and Gwen Stefani are amongst the half-dozen women on the planet who should have exclusive permits for wearing leather jeans. They earned the right. I fink Joan and Chrissie have gone vegan, and Gwen always has been, so go figure LOL Hypocrisy being the better part of valour and all that…
Nicer to look at than Roy, certainly. Joan Jett has a special place in my heart, as urban legend has it that during IRAQ II she was so eager to play for the troops the plane the band was on came in while control of the Baghdad airport was still being contended for somewhat vigorously.
ScouseBilly:
We did with Nazi Germany what we are doing with Red China now. We do not know if Chairman Mousey Dung’s empire treats its own people any better than did Dolfykins the Queen of the Pink Swastika. I do know a Sephardic Jewish family of Argentinian origins who now live in Virginia whose forebears had hostages held by the Reich to put pressure on this family to import aircraft engine tapered roller bearings into Argentina then ship them to the Luftwaffe. If you read “Operation Action” by a fellow named Cohen–he actually bought Jews from Eichmann with donated American Jewish money–most European branches of US banks had offices with Jews on staff. Outright greed was 40% of the deal. US official and public admiration of Hitler’s way of governing was 30% of it. You have to understand that until Dec 8, 1941, relations between Germany and the USA were de facto “normal,” I am ashamed to say, just as they are now with Communist China and the darlings in Communist Viet Nam.
The best part of the story is that when WW II commenced for us Yanks, all bank deals were off, and you can bet the US banks did not have the cojones to go to the BIS after the war to get their money back LOL The worst part is, I have no doubt the Nazis had no intention of keeping their hostage deals. History proves it.
Izen of the melted waxen wings:
The best I can say is I do admire your new nomenclature for the Delirium Tremens’ blog engine. How did that get by Ozboy, I wonder? :>)
@- thendisnighnot says: September 29, 2010 at 12:37 am
“isen haven’t been around for a while….. things to do people to see and all that… am somewhat confused (not unusual i know) but isn’t “richardscourtney a scientist? are you?? just had a memory you were perhaps a social worker from sarf london!”
I see on the JD/DT blog that just how much of a scientist richardcourtney might be is something he is being rather evasive about.
I am quite upfront about my intention NOT to claim any expertise, authority or educational status. Always seems rather pointless and counter-productive in the interweb….
However I will reveal that I am not directly engaged in climate science, or a sarf london social worker!
-grin–
Quote-“btw the way the letter that ryhmes with bed on my pc has been infected by a lovley bottle of red hence i can’t spell your name correctly no offence intended chap!”
None taken, but doesn’t that pose problems if you need to write chinese names, so many seem to start or contain Zzzzzzzzzzzz…..
This is another of the Immortal Half-Dozen:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ub1dh_KlGzg&feature=related Never uses an auto-tuning vocoder, either. Meeska Mooska Mouseketeer, take a look at Christine’s rear!
And here it is again in studio grade resolution. Mucho better:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ag2G3nF31Q&feature=related She’s on tour now, I fink.
Never fear, “z” is the pygmy of the alphabet!
Yez it’z much worze for me, and cauzing me much ztrezz. I’m not now in pozzezzion, of the key next to ‘D’. A key pozzezzionlezz. I try without zuccezz to exprezz the zenzelezznezz of my pozzezzionlezznezzez.
Come on Fen, get with it:
Yez it’z much worze for me, and cauzing me much ztrezz. I’m not now in pozzezzion, of the key next to ‘D’. A key pozzezzionlezz. I try without zuccezz to exprezz the zenzelezznezz of my pozzezzionlezznezzez.
Yep, it be well bad round my way. I be having no end of grief. That key right next to “D” have died a death, and now it be right gurt hard to get me wordz out proper.
…well, nearly there. 😉
Izen
Quote “I invoke every dentritic connection AND the local neural signaling chemicals that have a physically local effect by diffusion. That bumps up the number of interactional systems in the brain to something several orders of magnitude greater than the climate system.”
How many angels dancing on that pinhead?
Quote “Later in his statement he DOES make a testable claim about climate without prevarication. I will try and show how that falls apart next…”
For one moment, I thought you where talking about one of my climate claims, or prediction if you will.
From my reply to your post on September the 8th at 6:20 pm
Looking at the prediction from the http://www.gardenaction.co.uk/main/weather1-result.asp site for the first frost I got “YOUR FIRST AUTUMN FROST WILL BE IN mid November” Well I am predicting late October.
I understand you did not plan on showing how wrong I am. (and I am wrong!) For, we have already had the first frost of winter, a month EARLIER than I predicted and this does not fit in with your ever lengthening summer theory, does it?
NoIdea
I think we’re all Bilderberger’d out for the next year or so, wouldn’t you agree?
And speaking of Fenbeagle, the latest episode in his historical epic is out now!
NoIdea says:
September 29, 2010 at 6:04 am
Superb double entendre, NI.
@-NoIdea says: September 29, 2010 at 6:04 am
“How many angels dancing on that pinhead?”
Given a pinhead of avergae size of a little under 2mm you might just about squeeze 7 or 8 on there…
http://williamcalvin.com/bk9/index.htm
Quote-“I understand you did not plan on showing how wrong I am. (and I am wrong!) For, we have already had the first frost of winter, a month EARLIER than I predicted and this does not fit in with your ever lengthening summer theory, does it?”
I think you are setting up your own goal-posts to make scoring easier…
Climate is lots of weather over wide locales and long time. Your own personal first frost day this year locally is not the sole criterion of weather the prediction stands or thaws…
Re:- tide gauge data, Liverpool seems to have had two sites, operated over different times, was the data you originally gave from one or both with a correction made for the move?
This site is a good source of the background data –
http://www.psmsl.org/products/trends/
Check out the link to the table of long term trends under the diagram. The geophysical signals link under training and info is also relevant.
Pangaea.de is also worth a look, but its a more specialised database of all sorts of geophysical data. However they supply free software tools to download, convert, graph and manipulate the data yourself.
As I said before, if you have a LOT of noisy data, all with its own local variations that can only be partially compensated for, it is STILL possible to derive a clear quantity for the common trend that is embedded in that data.
Like your first frost day, the local date may vary, but collect enough over sufficient time and space and the trend is readilty evident. This is not some devious mathemagik. Its how you can detect a biased dice. The individual throws have a range of six, but averaged over time if it doesn’t converge on 3.5 then you know the dice is loaded.
‘The data is out there…’ as Fox used to (nearly) say.
In fact there is an awful lot of data that you need to doubt the ‘truth’ of to maintain doubt of the observed warming, sea level rise, ice melt etc.
Whoever-you-are-this-moment-Bear:
Hadn’t heard of Nico? I thought you’d heard of everything!
Don Johnson was rated a good actor by the actor who was almost my stepfather once. He (my stepfather — almost) was almost embarrassed by being an actor: silly way for a grown man to earn a living. (He was, however, also a singer-songwriter and a painter and this and that.) He did say that being an actor (lead) meant that you got to kiss beautiful women, and there weren’t many jobs that required that, never mind permitted it!
Pointman: I trust you are getting a mini gallery ready for us to stroll through? One of these days?
For its day, “Miami Vice” was cutting edge. It opened the door to another level of realism in TV drama. It also raised the bar on studio music standards for dramatic productions both technically and from the standpoint of content. He had a good run with that, and I think he works now in other areas more interesting than simply acting.
He was also too clean-cut, too focused, too manly and you could understand what he said. Star quality is unwanted now. They want people to act who look like someone you would bump into at Mickey Dee’s or a rehab clinic. Guys like Tony Franciosa, Barry Sullivan, and many other male leads in that market placement got frozen out by this fixation with the common touch in style and demeanor. The first casualty to fall in the big switch to hiring the janitor as the lead was Gig Young, one of the best actors TV ever had on one of the most cutting edge TV shows ever made for its day, “Mr. Broadway.”
“Miami Vice” got me to stop owning a TV up to this day, too. I got fed up when they ran that episode with two little girls getting machine-gunned at their birthday party. That says nothing about the quality of the TV series, but everything about me.
I thought you looked like a New Jersey girl :>) It was his loss not to have you as a daughter.
When you do get to Italy go to Florence and see the art in the churches. I have not been there yet, but my friends from Hammonton, NJ, have been there and swear by it.
Walt, what it says about you is that you have standards, taste, decency, refinement. So yes, it says everything about you.
Don was/is also much better-looking than a lot of actors they make a fuss of now. Can someone explain to me why I should know the name ‘Brad Pitt’? He’s not even handsome!
I think my almost-stepfather pretty much agreed with you about the loss. Mind you, he’s been too busy feeling bad about his other losses (love life), and I gather he’s not a good money-manager, despite being talented. I liked him at the time, but c’est la vie.
What does a New Jersey girl look like? My family is from London (Chingford/Walthamstow/Leyton).
Art — Florence — churches! Studied them in university: my most enjoyable course. My teacher was also a beautiful woman — Walt, I’m sure you would have loved her — lovely lilting Italian accent, well spoken, knew her stuff, knew the rhythm and proportion of the buildings, the language they spoke, their clever ‘inside jokes’: and it was Renaissance architecture of Italy we discussed, above all in Florence. She even had the same initial as me, and the same (non-Italian) surname.
Izen
Thank you for the link to the William Calvin site.
I was immediately drawn to the cartoon of the chap with the ladder attempting to build a big shed on top of his smaller shed.
Sheds and ladders, doesn’t that sounds like a fun game?
Quote “I think you are setting up your own goal-posts to make scoring easier…”
If having faith in my understanding of reality and declaring a prediction in full view is setting my own goal posts, how did I miss?
I missed of course because, how was it a wise man once put it? Oh yes “Nature gets the single, final and only vote on what the climate will do, and on that front the evidence is unequivocal.”
Wise indeed – on that point I think we’re all agreed – Oz
I had included links to both the data sets I had looked at for your convenience.
The primary one I examined was…
http://www.psmsl.org/data/longrecords/lpool.annual.mhw.fig1.grl
Quote “In fact there is an awful lot of data that you need to doubt the ‘truth’ of to maintain doubt of the observed warming, sea level rise, ice melt etc.”
I agree, frost days 6 weeks earlier than predicted in the UK, a massive late cold snap in the Southern hemisphere and Snow a month early in India, the truth is out there.
Will you notice the chill winds, or will you be comfortably numb, wrapped in a toasty cocoon of CO2?
NoIdea
Hi, Amanda. If Brad Pitt taped back his ears, had lots of symmetrical depressions honed into his face, shaved his head, donned a monocle and wore a top hat, he would look like Mr. Peanut.
NJ girls look nice, like you. NJ is what I would have guessed, if I had not known otherwise.
I think Brad would have fun with the role, too. Imagine a film called “The Battle of the Logos,” along the lines of Swift’s “Battle of the Books,” only stoopider. MUCH stoopider.
Plus….think of all the product endorsement revenue!!!!
With all those product endorsements, Brad could get Les Grossman on board as producer.
It would need to have an R rating, too.
Something along these lines:
Courtesy of http://www.kazunderworld.com
Walt: I wish that Levi Johnston weren’t so obviously good-looking and ‘hunky’. He’s lacking in everything else. And I say that as a Republican.
He’s 20 years old but is now (he says) running for mayor of Wasilla. Despite having an unpopularity rating right up {down} with John Edwards’s.
But that’s not his only trouble. He needs about 400 years to grow up.
P. S. Also, he should ditch the beard until or unless he can grow a proper one. Especially if he wants to be a politician anyway.
But it seems to me he doesn’t *really* want to be a politician, let alone a public servant for heaven’s sake. No, he’s had his 15 minutes of fame and then some, and now it’s a question of how not to squander it and how not to let it slip away. He’s had a taste of fame and celebrity and likes it (the little vulgarite). He wants money. He wants a cushy life. He can’t go back now to his otherwise likely path of working up to supermarket manager somewhere in Alaska, while playing fast and loose with the ladies on the side. This running-for-mayor thing is completely self-serving. The only wonder is that he can’t see how obvious that is.
Amanda, it is the age of the everythingtard with an arrogant disposition over-riding any common sense and commn decency. Hopefully with time this disease of the masses shall abate.
It’s like with e-mails when you first used them: you find out quickly that they act like a megaphone to your slightest inclination. The entire Net is like that.
Walt: At the risk of sounding elitist — and without a leg to stand on — never mind New Jersey, my father-in-law thinks I’m an ‘Essex girl’ — it has a meaning: Does the ‘disease of the masses’ ever abate?
About e-mails. Oh gosh yes, and how embarrassing. I have certainly sent one or two e-mails that I’d rather not have sent. Not because there was any substantive or meaningful fallout. But because on the whole they were inconsidered and fatuous and I’d had a bit too much to drink and the Internet was much too accessible. Actually that rather sounds like me on the blogs at times, now that I think of it! Well, all good fun.
Perhaps I meant ‘unconsidered’. Something like that.
Oh, I ought to add, the definition of ‘Essex girl’ I see on the Net is far too harsh. I didn’t understand it as implying lack of intelligence — nor does my father-in-law (who knew the term before I did, having become an expert on Essex dialects in the 1960s). Something about white shoes and a certain look in the eye. It started off that way, anyhow. Why do people have to go to extremes?
Well, New Jersey IS the place a young man would sensibly go to were he of a mind to find the proper woman of valour were he also of an equally assured worth as a person, with proper manners and a sense of duty to la famiglia. In that sense it is Essex for the USA.
Five Towns is the same but for glatt kosher women of valour. You have to be brave to marry.
I think “Miami Vice” is also part of why Don Johnson ditched acting, and for the same reasons I ditched my TV LOL
Walt, as usual you manage to be intriguing even though some of the things you refer to are slightly mysterious (to me).
Amanda, Italian culture is very well maintained and unchanged in places like Hammonton, NJ.
Five Towns is a community of Jews also quite unlike any other in the world. Here’s their local newspaper:
http://www.5tjt.com/ Also the best deal in the States for dental work and for bespoke suits and tailoring for men. Their ladies’ clothing and millinery shops are also beyond compare. Much of the American’s top-end designer tailoring and one-off clothing production has been done there since the 1890’s.
I said that Richard Courtney does make one unambiguous claim about the climate in his post that I would deal with, so belatedly, here it is –
Quote-“Very importantly, as I have repeatedly pointed out here, there is an apparent ~900 year oscillation that caused the Roman Warm Period (RWP), then the Dark Age Cool Period (DACP), then the Medieval Warm Period (MWP), then the Little Ice Age (LIA), and the present warm period (PWP). All the observed rise of global temperature in the twentieth century could be recovery from the LIA that is similar to the recovery from the DACP to the MWP.”
Just because you ‘repeatedly point out’ does not mean its true.
I have not seen any actual evidence that Courtney cites to support this claim. Perhaps others that have read more of his waffle can link me to where he does make an attempt to validate this assertion.
But as I have stated before it falls at the first test of whether there is a 900 year cycle. If we have just passed the present peak and the MWP was the last peak then there should be a GLOBAL warming (as in 1998) around 1100AD.
You can find good evidence for such in Northern Hemisphere proxy records, but the much sparser Southern Hemisphere records indicate that it warmed, but its peak was over by the 1100s, any warming was over a couple of centuries earlier. The MWP looks like one of a pattern of see-saw climate changes where the global average temp does not alter much, but the hemisphere averages do diverge.
This link gives a nice overview of the data, its like a tile-matching ‘ma-jong’ game to try and find two data sources with a peak at the same date – hint the best bet is to try somewhere at the same latitude… but even that does not always work!
http://pages.science-skeptical.de/MWP/MedievalWarmPeriod.html
But lets not stop there…
The next peak back is what Courtney calls the ‘Roman warm period’. Of course the further back you go the sparser the evidence and more uncertain it becomes, but while data uncertainty is invoked by Courtney over more recent trends, he seems extremely confident in the credence he puts in – well whatever proxy evidence he is using to identify a RWP.
Trouble is, there is not in the literature much support for this RWP. Even N hemisphere records dont show anything like the MWP, a peak should be at around 200AD. Recently there has been another reconstruction of ~2000 years of N hemisphere climate, this link compares it with Loehle, the darling of the WUWT crowd for exaggerating the MWP, and Moberg and Mann.
http://rankexploits.com/musings/2010/comparing-proxy-reconstructions/
Note that NONE of them show any significant Roman Warm Period.
Quote- “And the ~900 year oscillation could be the chaotic climate system seeking its attractor(s).”
Or the 900 year oscillation could be a figment of Richard Courtney’s imagination, invented as a counter-argument to claims that the present warming is not part of any Natural variation.
By the way, I think i am mildly insulted by being mistaken for Icarus on the DT blog, I didn’t see anything there that seemed very similar to my level of condescension, pomposity and verbal logorhea. Makes me wonder about Pointman’s judgment…
-grin-
I thought maybe you were just having a bad day? – Oz 😉
@-Noidea
I’m glad we can all agree Nature gets the single, final and only vote on what the climate will do, and on that front the evidence is unequivocal.”, but it does beg the question –
How do you tell what that vote is when the evidence is in dispute ?
There is clearly a contradiction between the claim I made that the evidence is unequivocal, and the dispute over the accuracy or reliability of that evidence.
Or in this case your contention that one piece of evidence – the first frost day – is a strong enough piece of evidence to refute the conclusion derived from any/all other data.
This may seem like a digression, but I’m going to discuss Targ and Puthoff, two researchers at Stanford in the 70s-80s who investigated (with backing from the CIA) psychic phenomina like remote viewing and precognition.
Thakfully the fad for this nonsense seems to have died (beware zombies!) but while it was in its heyday it declared all sorts of astounding results apparently overturning the foundations of scientific knowledge.
However there were enough skeptics (James Randi, Martin Gardiner) of their claims – back when skeptics was an honourable title – to subject them to close examination.
In both cases what was found was that Targ and Puthoff ‘cherry-picked’ the data they used to validate their claims.
In one experiment a random source was used to alter the direction of a moving light in a row. The subject had to predict which way the light would move nest. The whole setup was a neat bit of electronics that prevented any direct influence or later tampering with the hard-copy record of an experimental run.
But the ‘amazing’ examples of ‘above chance’ prediction turned out to be selected portions of MUCH longer runs which in their totality showed no ability to predict above chance.
I hope the relevance is evident.
You have to take the TOTALITY of the evidence, small selected segments can give misleading results.
The same applies to the various independent sources of evidence for the recent temperature rise.
Discard the land weather station instrumental record but the SST, glacier mass-balance, plant and animal behavior/range changes, SLR, borehole temperatures and first frost, frost free days data ALL still have a role as jigsaw pieces in the total picture.
Claiming that ALL the pieces are fake just takes you into conspiracy la-la land.
The Bilderbergers cannot make salmon spawn earlier….
Its not a house of cards, which collapses when one element is removed, its an interlocking collection of independent lines of evidence that are unequivocal in the overall picture of global warming.
Whatever aberrant variations you may be able to find in small pieces of the evidence.
Izen
I take a bit of time off and what do I find when I finally get back? There you are, still standing with your toes in the surf, doing a King Canute, commanding the tide not come in.
Izen, get used to it, climate is cyclical. We had a period of warm, no different from previous periods of warm, now we are going into a period of cold, just like all the other times.
There are only two differences this time around, izen.
The first is that a group of powerful people with a specific agenda decided that enough of the population had been dumbed down enough to sell them on the fairy tale of Man Made Global Warming to explain a perfectly natural period of cyclical warming.
In this endeavour they were aided and abetted by various self-interest groups, such as certain scientists who saw the opportunity of fame and fortune they otherwise had buckley’s chance of achieving; many large, powerful corporations and wealthy individuals, who recognised yet another chance to increase their power and wealth; and assorted politicians, who perceived extra votes and electorally acceptable additional taxes. They also had the assistance of a completely bought and paid for, and subsequently controlled media, including the taxpayer-funded outlets, such as the ABC here in OZ, and the BBC in the UK.
The second difference, izen, is that these powerful people had a small army of otherwise-intelligent, educated people such as yourself, who for whatever reason, consciously or unconsciously, supported their agenda, and thereby managed to muddy the waters sufficiently enough, and for long enough for us to reach the point where we are at today. The point of no return.
Izen, today is the first day I’ve managed to get my right hand to cooperate enough to type a post albeit slowly, but I’ve been able to drive a mouse for two weeks now, and I’ve been doing a lot of reading.
Did you know izen last week children in Scotland were building snowmen? That’s children in the northern hemisphere with enough snow to play in, in the first month of the northern hemisphere Autumn.
Now, I know what you want to say, izen; that this is just an example a bit of freak weather and it’s happened in the past, and of itself it doesn’t prove anything. And I’ll be the first to agree with you. I’m sure if I went looking I could find previous examples of similar occurrences.
But did you notice izen, that down here in OZ, in the same week, in what is the end of our first month of Spring, at Mt Hotham, and in the Dandenongs, and elsewhere, children were still building snowmen?
Again, izen, of itself and by itself just a bit of a freak of nature, which has surely happened in the past, and will again the future.
But both at the same time izen? Winter arriving freakishly in the northern hemisphere, while it lingers freakishly late in the southern hemisphere? I haven’t been able to find a similar occurrence in modern times, izen, and I looked.
And I’m not just relying a few snowmen. In case you hadn’t noticed, cattle are still dying in unprecedented numbers due to cold in South America, while they are now doing exactly the same thing, for the same reason, in Mongolia, and elsewhere, in the northern hemisphere.
In other words, izen, it’s getting COLD. GLOBALLY. And unlike the other times this has happened in the past, due to the efforts of the aforementioned people with an agenda, and the efforts of the wealthy and the powerful and the politicians and the scientists with their own aims and desires, and, above all, with the assistance of people just like you in Greenpeace and the WWF and elsewhere, this time there is no excess energy generation, no food, no funds, nor political will, to alleviate the situation.
So a lot of people a going to die izen. Millions, perhaps billions are going to die. That is, after all, what the original agenda was all about right from the beginning. Not world government, not profits, not taxes, not fame and fortune – they are just examples of callow people jumping onto a perceived bandwagon.
No, the agenda was, and remains, a mass culling of the herd. And that’s what is now going to happen for there is not a power on earth that can stop it.
But then, you always knew that, didn’t you izen. At some level you and the people like you knew, and actually agree with the agenda. That’s why you’ve never been prepared, or able to offer a Plan B.
You’re more than happy with Plan A – mass genocide.
@-MV
It would be funny if it wasn’t so puerile.
You accuse me of alarmism and a disconnect from reality and then say this –
Quote-“In other words, izen, it’s getting COLD. GLOBALLY. And unlike the other times this has happened in the past, due to the efforts of the aforementioned people with an agenda, and the efforts of the wealthy and the powerful and the politicians and the scientists with their own aims and desires, and, above all, with the assistance of people just like you in Greenpeace and the WWF and elsewhere, this time there is no excess energy generation, no food, no funds, nor political will, to alleviate the situation.”
Have a look at the latest satellite data from those well known ‘warmists’ (snark) –
http://www.drroyspencer.com/latest-global-temperatures/
What do you think the percentage probability is that the global average temperature for the NEXT decade will be lower, or higher than the last decade ?
@-MV
The Canute metaphor is rather unfortunate.
Despite waves of variation there has been a rising tide of temperature for around a century.
You would appear to be the one trying to keep their head above the hot water declaring that the tide has turned…
How many decades do you predict it will take for the globe to cool down to the sort of temperature we survived, or even prospered in, during the 60s?
Izen
In answer to you first post, I must confess to being at a loss to understand the connection between children in the northern hemisphere and the southern hemisphere being able to build snowmen at the same time of the year due to unprecedented COLD, and cattle dying in the northern and southern hemispheres at the same time from unprecedented COLD; and a computer-constructed temperature analogy of a measurement of something else entirely.
But as always, I’ll stick with OBSERVABLE FACTS and leave the computer-generated “information” to people like you who need your data in a more malleable form.
What do I think is the percentage probability of the next decade being colder than the last one? 100% izen, but in a world without your type it wouldn’t matter if I was wrong, because we would have excess energy, food and capital to tackle the problems associated with either outcome – warm or cold. It is you and your mass-murdering ilk that have sentenced a large chunk of humanity to a slow a painful death whatever happens now.
In answer to your second post:
Less than one decade izen; within five years it will be as cold or colder than the 60’s. And yes, back then we survived, even prospered izen.
Why?
Because back then the western world had an excess of power-generating capacity, which you and yours have destroyed this time around by preventing the construction of REAL power stations, in favour of windmills and other greenie wet dreams.
Because parts of the western world had the capacity to grow excess food, which due to the efforts of people like you is now turned into biofuels.
Because back then the western world had capital to invest to address the problems, and the political will to do what had to be done. These too have now been destroyed by your genocidal comrades-in-arms at Goldman-Sachs and elsewhere on Wall Street.
So sit back and enjoy the ride, izen: who knows, on a clear day you may even be able to hear the screams of dying from where you are.
I do hope so. I would hate to think you were denied the juiciest, most entertaining fruits of your labours.
G’day everyone,
New post here. It’s still AGW so could you move this debate over there.
Cheers
Ozboy