Get Out Your Scarves And Mitts: Jack Frost’s A-Coming

I thought I’d touch on a science topic briefly, as it has popped up rather a lot recently in the MSM. I’m assuming you’ve all at least heard of the Pacific Decadal Oscillation?


For some time now it’s been known that the Pacific Ocean goes through alternating warming and cooling phases, each lasting several decades—hence the name. From at least 1915 to about the mid 1940s, the ocean was in a warming phase; from then until 1977, in a cooling phase. From 1977 until 1998, the PDO was again in a warming phase, and in that year reverted to a cooling phase, in which it remains today.

Pacific Decadal Oscillation, 1900-present

Warming phases are characterized by warmer water down the North American Pacific west coast, encircling a body of cooler water in the mid-Pacific Ocean. In cooling phases, this pattern is reversed, as shown here:

Current PDO cooling phase, evident since 1998

The current cooling phase is complicated by the concurrent La Niña event, which has the effect of cooling the Pacific Ocean in the equatorial latitudes.

Yes, yes, that’s well and good Ozboy, fascinating science and all, but so bloody what?

I’m glad you asked.

You see, it just so happens that global temperature changes over the 20th Century have paralleled the PDO with uncanny accuracy.

It makes a lot of sense when you think about it. The Pacific Ocean is by far the world’s largest body of water. It covers one-third of our planet’s surface area, and merely the top few metres of it represents a heat sink many thousands of times greater than the earth’s atmosphere as a whole. When the Pacific Ocean gets warmer, so does the atmosphere. And vice versa.

Given the clear correlation between the PDO and global atmospheric temperature trends, and given also that the PDO has been in a cooling phase since 1998 and based on past behaviour probably will continue to do so for some decades, it makes sense to infer that global temperatures, having also peaked in 1998, are likely to mirror this cooling.

The best-known authority on the PDO is Don Easterbrook, Professor Emeritus of the Department of Geology at Western Washington University (call me biased, but it’s so often geologists, whose line of work requires them to take the long view, who are the strongest sceptics of Anthropogenic Global Warming. And why so many warmistas have become suddenly prone to pontificate on geology, something I find profoundly irritating). I urge all of you, when you have a spare moment, to navigate here and read his take on the likely immediate future of our planet’s climate.

To be sure, there are those who dispute the PDO/global temperature relationship. You probably don’t want to know the gory details, but for a textbook example of quibbling, cavilling, nit-picking and nay-saying, check out this thread on Watts Up with That (from which I lifted the excellent illustrations, which were in turn taken from Easterbrook’s paper). There are some statistical issues with the precise “switching point” from warm to cool phases, and some grumblings about temperature shifts in lesser bodies of water. Stand back from these trees however, and observe the forest as a whole, and the significance of the PDO appears pretty compelling.

Right now at my place it’s -1°C (30°F) outside. So I’ll leave you to ponder the cooling Pacific as I throw some more wood on the fire, get a hot cuppa and start knitting that new scarf.

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520 Responses to Get Out Your Scarves And Mitts: Jack Frost’s A-Coming

  1. Edward. says:

    Read it and its a good synopsis and indubitable conclusion, Don Easterbrook is a personal hero of mine (as you know).

    I would make one little obo’, when using diagrammatics and using graphs etc from sources, please stick the link/ source below, so I can look it up, I am lazy like that (grin).

    I do not intend to be clever Oz, it’s not in my nature(haha), after-all I am a guest, you can snip if you like…..(smile).


  2. crownarmourer says:

    Interesting may help explain the weird northern hemisphere weather we are having.

  3. crownarmourer says:

    It seems to have caused a major cooling on the West side of North America because of the double whammy, but the Eastern half is still being influenced by the gulf and gosh only knows what effects the oil spill has had on the weather so it is a heatwave at the moment.

  4. Pointman says:

    Very quiet here. Is everybody out buying Scarves And Mitts? The blokes may need a bit of help on the scarves front. When in doubt, consult an expert


  5. crownarmourer says:

    Yep it’s the time of evening where people are going to get there tea and whatnot, walt has odd hours because of his work.

  6. crownarmourer says:

    The missus just made an amazing Pizza from scratch dough and all, hot Italian sausage, pepperoni and hamburger with small peppers, onions home made sauce, now I’m stuffed.

  7. Walt O'Brien says:

    Hello, Crownarmourer. It’s not only that. It is just too hot to do anything.

    Sun’s been down two hours now, and it is still a mite toasty. I feel like one of those pooches left in the supermarket parking lot in the sunlight in places like Arizona (it is actually cooler in LA than it is here in Syracuse, NY.

    Here is the wave of the future for everyone in the States if all this AGW related curtailment of power generation and industrial activity go through. It’s a bit hard to dig this up if you don’t know the ropes, and we do tend to hide our dirty things under the carpet:

    I’d no idea it had got this bad. Amazing.

  8. Walt O'Brien says:

    Sounds like a helluva pizza, BTW. YUM!

  9. Walt O'Brien says:

    To zombie drowned polar bears, Jane Fonda, Ashley Judd and Susan Sarandon brain pizza is even better.

  10. Walt O'Brien says:

    I love America so much that I would like to bend over the Statue of Liberty and do her like Rin Tin Tin.

  11. Walt O'Brien says:

    I think I’ll leave that task to the Lincoln Memorial granite dude, though.

  12. crownarmourer says:

    Well back from being dragged around the open air mall by my daughter and it is still 87F which is 900C if I remember, I see your living up to avatar Pervy the Polar Bear. The there is something amazingly disturbing about that bear. Which means you got it spot on.

  13. crownarmourer says:

    Pervy isn’t right it looks like Clinton the Polar bear.

  14. Hi Guys

    I thought you may be interested to know that all my comments have been deleted from JD’s blog and, in fact all other DT blogs. I have not apparently been banned or had my account closed and I am able to post but a few minutes or even hours later my post disappears. The same was happening to Mack and even amerloque but most of Mack’s posts have been restored now. Some of my posts were restored yesterday but had gone again by this morning. Please have alook for yourselves. My last comment this morning was:

    “To James Delingpole

    Every one of my comments has gone again.this morning I am not blaming the moderators or the system or you or Kate or Damian but I would like to know why this is happening. Some of my posts reappeared last evening but have now gone again.

    I am hanging is here but if every post I write is to be removed or to disappear in some way, what is the point.

    I will save and repost as this one will probably be gone before you can see it.”


    If anyone has any idea what is going on or can give me James Delingpole’s email (I know yaosxx contacted James), I would be most grateful. Thank you.


  15. crownarmourer says:
    July 9, 2010 at 12:22 pm

    As we say in New Yawk: “Ya think?” In the meantime, you can’t tell me Mrs. Rugmuncher hadn’t worked her way through the Hollywood A, B and C list of starlets at the same time. And she didn’t even let us watch!

    Maybe we could round up all the homeless, give them M-16’s and RPG’s, march on Washington as a group named “The Advisory Committee on The Impact of Global Warming Policy,” otherwise, as they also say in New Yawk, FTS!!!

    To RR, amerloque, and everyone else who done did got et up by those dadburn silly savages in their pink tights and yellow speedos: I have to apologize for all of this. I started it with my posting of “Bipolar Bear” by Xeth Feinberg, the TMI cartoon of the century, easily. That was when the DT said, “That’s done it. We are not amused.”

  16. In fact, it’s time for a re-posting, seeing as Ozboy indicates that polar bears will be invading Tasmania soon.

    Are you ready?!! I’m not.

  17. mlpinaus says:

    Been lurking here for a while. Thank you for the link to Don Easterbrook’s article. It is exactly that sort of precise demolition that this Global Warming scam needs.


  18. crownarmourer says:

    RR sent your request to James D, via email to pass onto Kate Day, if you want to get his email address post on his personal blog not the DT and ask there, if he deems you worthy he will email you, he is a decent guy so he probably will if he has the time. Just don’t bug him too much he is busy like everyone else.

  19. crownarmourer says:

    mlpinaus welcome to our ramblings courtesy of ozboy. Feel free to comment but we are rough and tumble here and we do joke around a lot so don’t take anything personal none us do, we appreciate izen our resident differing point of view all opinions welcome. We do not like trolls just good honest argument.

  20. crownarmourer says:

    Ivan Niforyu the Zombie Drowned Polar Bear and Presidential Naturopathic Proctologist… good one and there is a reason Bubba strayed a lot and probably should in jail for what he’s done, Ms Lewinsky was a crime against humanity what was he thinking.
    However takes all sorts but unlike the present incumbent he was willing to compromise to get things done.

  21. Amerloque says:

    Hi folks !

    Just checked on JD’s most recent blog …

    My posts yesterday are still there … Mack has been selectively unpersoned … rr has had quite a few comments deleted.


    Amerloque 20100709 08h20 Paris time (CET)

  22. Amerloque says:

    Hi folks !

    OK, I jyst posted my “Now is not the time …” call to arms on JD’s “whitewash” blog.

    It was zapped immediately. Invisible.

    Screw the DT.


  23. crownarmourer says:

    amerloque are you in Paris beautiful city but it was plagued by African traders trying to barter goods on the streets and that was in the 70’s, was on a three week school trip through France at the time. Wonderful time gobbing on a bald guy from the first stage of the Eiffel, tower lots of free to the eye boobage in the South a wonderful gift if your 12 at the time. The French alps are really pretty especially Lac Annecy, a trip up to see Mont Blanc was fun on the death defying train up there and to see the glacier.

  24. Amerloque says:

    Hi folks !

    Just ran the term ” disqus problems” through Google.

    Result was “About 1,260,000 results (0.08 seconds)”.

    A quick read of the results is edifying.

    Didn’t the jerk*ffs at the DT do the same thing before adopting this “disqus” garbage.

    It _might_ be a software problem, as some have pointed out …

    The DT won’t be sorting this for a long time, if the comments from Google are any indication. (sigh)


    Amerloque 20100709 08h40 Paris time (CET)

  25. Amerloque says:

    Hi crownarmourer !

    ///amerloque are you in Paris beautiful city but it was plagued by African traders trying to barter goods on the streets and that was in the 70′s, was on a three week school trip through France at the time.///

    This very week the authorities busted all those African people flogging miniature Eiffel towers: they arrested dozens, confiscated ten Mercs and 4x4s, and seized something like 400,000+ euros.

    Paris has changed beyond all recognition for someone who visited in the ’70s. There are huge parts of the city where your life is at stake after dark. Only African dialects are spoken at the Gare du Nord and Gare de l’Est from late afternoon on. There are vast neighborhoods where French is a foreign language. The “white flight” over the past ten years has been dizzying: would put the US equivalent to shame.

    You don’t want to to take the Metro, either, if you can possibly avoid it.

    Nice place to visit if you’re a “tourist”. It’s a whole other kettle of fish if you’re raising kids, or running a business, or windowshopping on a daily basis, though.

    After destroying France, socialism has destroyed Paris. (sigh) If you’re an immigrant from North Africa or Black Africa (or even better for you, an __illegal__ immigrant) Paris is the place for you ! “My” streetsweeper has 21 kids, and receives a child allowance for each of them.

    Amerloque 20100709 08h45 Paris time (CET)

  26. izen says:

    The first 6 months of this year have been warmer than 1998 or any other year since 1850.

    The PDO is the dominant factor in the variations, the rising CO2 is the dominant factor in the trend.

  27. Pointman says:

    izen July 9, 2010 at 5:03 pm

    Still frigging around with the dyke?


  28. Nice to see you are still confusing weather with climate to your convenience, Izal. Keep it up…..there’s a good troll.

  29. crownarmourer says:

    Well going to bed soon hi RR, pointman, amerloque and izen.
    Izen question for you where on the globe are you referring to? North America has had some record breaking hot temps and some record breaking cool temps at the same time. temperature wise the continent is split in two, also the southern hemisphere is suffering a bad winter ask ozboy.

  30. NoIdea says:

    The end of the beginning
    Chapter 11

    June the thirteenth 2030 just before tea time

    All together now!

    There was a hubbub, and a murmuring as the various groups discussed options and plans.
    Snatches of the conversation reached the Pointman and he smiled gently as he realized it would take a while for the team’s full flotilla of enhanced abilities to rise to the surface. The modifications and changes made by the reprogrammed alien devices had unlocked a variety of extra sensual capacities and some extrasensory psionic powers. He helped where he could, making correlations here and showing new paths in history there.
    “I am thinking Zbigniew Brzezinski for the PlatCat” said Manon. No we need PC to go and take out Hoover and JFK remember, replied Edirose. “What about Kissinger and Chaney?” He asked. “We need them all contained and reapplied correctly” Amerl nodded in agreement. “What about if we head back earlier than that,” asked Rastech “surely if we can set the ball in motion at an earlier point, we will need less energy to get it started.” Agreed, replied Theoz with a bow of his noble brow. “How about if we aim for the unholy trinity of Crowley, Hubbard and Parsons… oh no they are still alive, but how? I cannot see through the memory miasma mist, this is indeed worrying.” Rastech accesses the lost data streams for August 15, 1871 and repeated the words of Albert Pike. “The Third World War must be fomented by taking advantage of the differences caused by the “agentur” of the “Illuminati” between the political Zionists and the leaders of Islamic World. The war must be conducted in such a way that Islam (the Moslem Arabic World) and political Zionism (the State of Israel) mutually destroy each other. Meanwhile the other nations, once more divided on this issue will be constrained to fight to the point of complete physical, moral, spiritual and economical exhaustion…We shall unleash the Nihilists and the atheists, and we shall provoke a formidable social cataclysm which in all its horror will show clearly to the nations the effect of absolute atheism, origin of savagery and of the most bloody turmoil. Then everywhere, the citizens, obliged to defend themselves against the world minority of revolutionaries, will exterminate those destroyers of civilization, and the multitude, disillusioned with Christianity, whose deistic spirits will from that moment be without compass or direction, anxious for an ideal, but without knowing where to render its adoration, will receive the true light through the universal manifestation of the pure doctrine of Lucifer, brought finally out in the public view. This manifestation will result from the general reactionary movement which will follow the destruction of Christianity and atheism, both conquered and exterminated at the same time.”
    Yes, we have to take control of that particular focus. Any volunteers?” The group all grimaced at the thoughts of the vile deeds and rites performed by the greatest control freak of his time. “Do not fear, we have a volunteer for this hideous assignment”
    Grinned The Pointman to them metaphysically.
    As the discussions gained in intensity, so the noise levels increased as each member of the team gained understanding and realization dawned.
    “So that means that it is us that will control the HAARP array and the Norwegian spiral photonic dish when we have the chemtrail network in place!” Gasped Scud.
    “Of course it does” snapped Orknead “we have to have control of the chemtrail network in order to interfere with the electromagnetic induction algorithms, unless…” He tapered off and stared into space, “remember, we must take control of all the contemporary communication networks and eliminate the estrogen and the fluoride from the Dihydrogen monoxide cycle” interjected Teinn.
    And so on the chatter and brainstorming continued, with each revelation of understanding another barrier dissolved, another level of understanding was reached.
    “So who is going to take Midgley Then? Argh and Icke of course” queried PlatCat having to shout above the cacophony of din. “Let us give him his full name, David Rex Ickeosaurus. And let us remember not all enemies are friends and not all friends are enemies. Conceptually correct but technically inexact, it has to have a unique address or the message couldn’t be delivered. This is conceptually correct but technically manifested in a different fashion. Think about the protocols” Nudged the Pointman silently.
    The PlatCat immediately did the equations and concluded “Some of the reptoid races are on our side, even though they believe themselves to be opposed, they are necessary for the polarization phase canceling to set in! Superb, what a wonderful irony! But that means…what about the arachnoids and the other aliens?”
    Remember the connection reminded the Pointman gently through his telepathic voice.
    There was a palpable rapport settled over most of the group, with the semi silence came the realization that some voices where continuing to gibber and jabber.

    Mack’s voice boomed across the top of the berry EPIC dome.
    “3 climatologists are on the private gore jet BIGAL1, on their way to the latest whitewash.
    The satellite data technician declared to the other 2 “I have data going back 30 years”
    The meteorologist smirked and replied “My records go back 200 years” “Well” Beamed the Geologist “I have records going back 4.5 billion years”
    Al Gore snarls in a roar “YOU CAN NOT BE SERIAL for I am the god of climate change, and I declare the world started in 4000bc!”
    Surprisingly against an almost solemn aura of silence that arisen he raised his voice and spoke faster.
    “It is consistent with other associated branches of science in physics, chemistry and biology – rejecting it needs significant re-writing of rather basic science at the level of radiation absorption and thermodynamics. Unfortunately, many scientific trials have shown that whereas plants do grow faster and often larger under high CO2, they often have lower protein levels so are less useful as food.
    A guy walks into a police station and reports to the desk sergeant that he has just seen a bus load of climatologists go off a cliff, but not to worry he has dealt with it.
    What do you mean you have dealt with it! The desk sergeant yells back.
    Well I buried them all replied the guy.
    How did you know they where dead? Asks the cop
    Well a few of them tried telling me they weren’t, but you know what lying joshers that lot are. Try this…one sentence along the lines of ‘Emissions of CO2 and other gases from the burning of fuels allow more sunlight to be trapped by our atmosphere and causing the earth to warm up. Done. ARGGHHH Try this ‘Emissions of CO2 and other gases from the burning of fuels allow more sunlight to be blocked by our atmosphere and causing the earth to cool down’ Or perhaps in the real world ‘Emissions of CO2 and other gases from the burning of fuels allow more sunlight to be used by plants when our atmosphere and earth warm up’ An agent hears from a talent scout about a great new act, and schedules an appointment. When they show up, he’s troubled to find a family of four: A father, mother, son, daughter and dog.
    “I’m sorry,” he says. “I don’t do family acts….”
    “Please sir, just… give us a minute,” the father says.
    The agent capitulates, and sits down.
    The father pulls out a kazoo, the mother produces a trumpet, then, all together with the daughter, the dog, and the frailty of human existence, twelve months silence falls across the endless expanse of wonder. Five presidents dine on words, but small ones, radiology and finance forgotten amongst the sudden explosions of light and isinglass isn’t glass at all. Someone shuffles by, carrying a unicycle, wearing a shirt that says “kiss the cook” in Urdu. Ages pass, crystal fissures encroach on the ancient ice sheets of Thought. Red. Red and blue, surely not yellow. Colorless, yet green, these ideas furiously sleeping are awakened by greyscale dolphins to drip drop flip flop chowder buckets full. Nothing comes to a point. Points rise, and then converge. Long numbers divided by zero spray forth marigolds, goldilocks, and foliage unseen in shadowed glades, where treefall and cries of “wolf” go unheard. Across the interzone, in the longfall forests, lumbering beasts are seen for the first time in ten million years, withers to sky. Dropped from skyhooks, astronauts sell ice cream by the sea, in delicate seashell china white cups to undercover lovers. And then, at the penultimate moment, as the Möbius strip returns to the beginning of track Number Nine, the father bows.
    Follow up with relentless and overwhelming numbers of photos of the effects, from Greenland ice moulins to coastal storms to droughts, with comments from locals experiencing these changes.. ‘before’ and ‘after’ are good.
    The agent says, “Wow. That’s one hell of an act. What do you call it?”
    The father replies, “The Aristocrats! Common purpose common porpoise”
    Mack was now frothing gobbets of spittle and drool, his leery eyes rolling from side to side and then up and down looking like jackpots in a fruit machine flying by. His hair stood on end and he bellowed
    “The public will relate to this so much better……and this advice comes from a data junky and trained scientist.
    A Neutron Goes Into A Bar And Asks The Bartender, “how Mack For A Beer?”
    the Bartender Replies, “for You, No Charge.”
    The Pointman sent out a mighty mental missive of immediate import.

    ‘That is the Freudian slip we have been waiting for! Team, drop and cover. Dynamic packet Net masks, Default gateways engage love history expansion plan Alpha!”

    There was a clattering as weapons of mass destruction are discarded and the weapons of mass distraction kicked in. The team started to sing the magical mantra
    “Fire all of your guns at once and lets float into space, because, like a true natures child, you where born, Barnaby Wilde, you can fly so high, you never want to die.”
    The Pointman muttered in his mind: ‘Charles Manson would ask a simple question to his would be follower. The question was designed that he already knew the answer. I do not want to be responsible for someone being hurt by this insanely powerful technique.’ The reply when it came so instantaneously that it seemed to have arrived before the muttering had been completed, fluttered into Pointmans conscious like a butterfly starting hurricanes in Brazil.
    The Hidden Invisible Shadow Lords of Beneficent Bent, comprised of an amalgam of diverse intellects now united seeped the solution silently and surreptitiously stating “remember the Maxwell equations feed in the benzoin beneceptor benzyl univalent organic radicals. Hit the endometric glands and maintain equilibrium, squeeze out the endophyte.”

    The Pointman relayed the message double quick on all modes and frequencies.

    “Sorry, there were no comments found for this user…” was the non reply from Mack the apoplectic and incoherently gibbering, as he bounced and gamboled while he was held in the group’s mighty ethereal hug.
    The Team let rip with one voice “take the world in a love embrace” and squeezed him with their collective consciousness.
    There was a popping tearing sound as what appeared to be roots burst out of Mack’s Danner combat boots, and a sudden hissing as clouds of vile green steam burst from his nostrils like streams of milk from the nose of a kid who has just laughed at the wrong time.
    There was a keen sharp wailing rising over the top of the aural attack, Ms.Her was howling every hair on her head standing on end, suddenly the wail took on a vibrato effect and started to phase in and out of resonance, as the sounds changed so did the outlines of Mack and Ms.Her both blurring and morphing the body shapes expanding and contracting at a frequency of 440 hertz.
    “We need to hit them with some early Primary Slave, switch to Spasm from Data Plague” declared The Pointman subliminally sublime.
    “Four for tee, I’ll be your brother, kick the thirts out of me I love it” As the team hurled this latest refrain with all the power of their choral input the figures of Mack and Ms.Her now raised into the air to the height of phi over the common denominator. They were trapped in time stasis frozen. “Switch to an unknown Slave number, Tell me what I believe. On my mark, go!” This was the moment of truth, as the world’s most incredible riff ever played ripped through the atmosphere, a whiff of urine and faeces exploded from the stationary pair, a terrible stench of fear. The team took two steps back and continued to sing at them.
    “Hey man what did you do today?
    Word, do you get how it must have been?
    Think hard, how are you by the way?
    Yeah man I know what you’re trying to say
    Do you like, want for something more?
    A Fabian dream or a cause
    In my last dream I was born a wave
    But a dream is a dream anyway
    Maybe it is good for me
    Must stop me in some way
    But reality morality don’t
    Don’t mean a thing to me
    To me
    And I always done what I told
    And I only learned what I see
    If what I see is what you’ll see
    Tell me what I believe!”

    As the guitar solo cut through the ether with a violent violet haze it ripped the phenomenal factitious fabaceous facsimiles into a whirling dance of midair twirling.
    The subsonic interrogation revealing the truth as it drove the fungal spores and mitochondria seeping from their pores.

    “Hey man I got carried away
    What was it? How was it anyway?
    Wish I had a will for a better day
    And Mack you know what I’m trying to say
    Do you like or want for something more?
    A Fabian dream or a cause
    And my life’s nightmare
    Been performed away
    But a dream is a dream anyway
    Maybe it’s good for me
    Must stop me in some way
    But reality and morality
    Don’t mean a thing to me
    To me
    And I always done what I told
    And I only learned what I see
    If what I see is what you see
    Tell me what I believe
    Tell me what I believe
    Grade my ability to find for me sanity
    Praise me up society
    So tell me what I believe
    Give me identity in time maybe honesty
    Give me time, time
    Tell me what I believe
    Teach me your history
    Inspire my profanity
    Build me up and flatter me
    And tell me what I believe
    Give me stability
    Tell me your fantasy
    Tell me why my mind, mine, mine mined
    Tell me what I’ve suffered muvafreaker
    And I always done what I told
    And I only learned what I see
    If what I see is what you will see
    Tell me what I believe”

    The apparently lifeless and now purged husks of the whirling duo slumped to the floor in a Uriah heap.

    “Nice work team” thought the Pointman to them. “Now we need to try and get this tangled web revealed in its full complexity, I am arranging the data streams with the new information from Mack and Ms.Her, depending on what I find they may have to be irrevocably erased, comment removed from history. If possible we will of course redeem and rehabilitate the both of them. If that is not possible we may be able to reprogram them. We will do everything we can. We already have this from Mack and Ms.Her: ‘In order to destroy all collective forces save ours we shall emasculate the first stage of collectivism, the universities, by re-educating them in a new direction. Their officials and professors will be appointed with special precaution and dependent upon our government; and they will be inculcated with detailed secret action-programs, in order to perform their profession.’ And strangely from Ms.Her only we got: ‘We shall erase from memory of men all facts of previous centuries which are undesirable to us and leave only those which depict all errors committed by sheeple governments. There will be no such thing as freedom of instruction. All people will be initiated into one faith.’ Both of these views are straight from the other protocols. Now is not the time to let up!”
    With Mack and Ms.Her contained the team got back to work. Now in a palpable silence as the incredible value of the transcendental gifts started to sink in, the thoughts of the group became hive like in an individual and unique way. The intensity of thought fizzling through the ether was making the air around them shimmer and dissipate in tiny sub-atomic transactions.
    I believe it is time, we are ready for the synopsis and prognosis, please stand by for data upload in three seconds thought the Pointman.
    The palpable silence died down to a non palpable murmur.
    Then I will begin stated Pointman.

    To be continued…?

  31. crownarmourer says:

    amerloque same has happened to London as well, I’m sure outside of the big city’s it ok, my brother spent time contacting in France and remembers it fondly in the 80’s where he went to work the worse for wear at a manufacturing facility when his boss spotted him and he thought he was going to get fired. He called my brother into his office and they shared a bottle of whiskey all day. The French are great people when you get to know them outside of Paris.
    I still remember the time in the 80’s on vacation in Brittany and an old guy approached us thanking us for the help we had provided to his countrymen in WW2 he was a free French veteran.

  32. crownarmourer says:

    Well off to bed I’m going to hate myself in the morning, ozboy if you are having problems with the young bairns papoose him, wrapped in blankets gets them to sleep, works for us with grand bairn. A good feed and clean and papoosing and then sleep in 5 minutes.

  33. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Evening All,

    Just doing a quick catch-up after a day out. Walt and Crown commiserating on the heat in the USA, well I’m bloody freeeeezing.

    Just made a coffee with a drop of brandy, Yummm, only thing that’ll warm me up from the inside out.

    Went to lunch with a group of friends and acquaintances and the Major topic of conversation was the COLD weather. None could remember such a long, sustained cold period. Temps rarely getting to double digits at all. I dropped into the mix Ozboy,s scenario on the Pacific driving our climate. It was interesting to sit back quietly (for a change) and watch where the conversation took itself.

    There were some real “green/socialist” folks there, waxing lyrical about wind farms.
    I am such a dag, tossing a little question here and there always adopting the “really interested” facial expression, earnestly “seeking” information.

    “What percentage of our energy usage do you think the windmills are generating?”
    “Don’t know”
    “How much in taxpayer subsidies do they pay for the turbines?”
    “Don’t know – does the Govt pay anything for them?”
    “What’s the life expectancy for a turbine, especially in the salty coastal winds?”
    “Don’t know, but they look prettier than those ugly smoke stacks on power stations.”

    One woman, late 50s, said we had to get rid of that dreadful Carbon MONoxide, so we should bring in the ETS, prattling on with how shocking it was “That stuff can kill you, you know”. It was a joy to watch a friend slice and dice her about the difference between car exhausts and Co2. Her final retort? “It’s all the same thing and we have to get rid of it”.

    It was scary enough to give you indigestion. These fools have the ability to place a valid vote in the ballot box.

    Reassuringly, the general consensus was that the sun and the oceans DO drive our climate and the Greens can “get stuffed”. Not a scientist or “ologist” amongst them, but common sense and life experience aplenty that sent the Greens off in high dudgeon…LOL

    PS The steak was great though!

  34. mlpinaus says:

    “It was scary enough to give you indigestion. These fools have the ability to place a valid vote in the ballot box.” That’s the problem with a democracy. A modestly well informed, considered vote, is cancelled out instantly by that of any swivel eyed nutter. All you can do is to be rational and polite, point them at articles like that of Don Easterbrook’s that stopped me lurking on this site when I read it, and hope that the basic commonsense of the populace will prevail. Tonight is a freezing example of winter weather; a single malt night. Or three.

  35. Pointman says:

    Welcome to Ozboy’s Bar & Grill mlpinaus. Belly up to the bar and slake your thirst. It sweltering in here.


  36. mlpinaus says:

    That is another nice aspect of the now “internet”…. Pointman coming in with a welcome to me, probably from America or the UK. I have been around it (the internet) from when it was Darpanet, a part of DARPA, in the 80’s. It has matured from a network for nerds into a place for human communication. That why “the powers that be ” want to censor it. Not all that keen on the powers that be…..Must go and have that Malt.

  37. manonthemoor says:

    Hi All

    My thought for the Day

    Good morning
    Today we have an exclusive. A scientific peer reviewed presentation about holes
    Holes are very important in our society and have been clearly overlooked in the past, this presentation is thus a means in part to elevate the importance of the hole to the attention of the nation.
    Holes come in many shapes types and sizes examples of which are outlined here:-
    Mathematical Holes :- Round holes, Square holes, Oblong holes and Cylindrical holes
    Natures Holes:- Worm holes, Rabbit holes and of course Toad in the holes.
    Domestic holes:- Plug holes, Pin holes, Button holes, Screw holes and Dowel holes.
    Personal holes:-Ear holes, Nose holes, Arm holes and of course I almost forgot Cake holes.
    Geological holes:- Bore holes, Watering holes, Sink holes and Black holes.
    A significant list but your government wishes to bring to you attention new type of hole rapidly growing in a neighbourhood near you. POT HOLES as featured in a recent TV documentary on the subject.
    To many a pot hole, is a pot hole, is a pot hole. But this ignores the significance of pot holes in relation to global warming. You government has decided to treat this problem seriously and set up a University of Pot holes.
    The growing presence of pot holes demands intensive study of the characteristics of pothole and the impact on our lifestyles which of course affects us all. Examples below:-
    Cars and Transport:- We all know that cars are dangerous and kill people, with a knock on effect to police ambulance and NHS resources, thus the government intends an extension of the pothole program lead to a nationwide 20 mph speed limit. The cost benefit analysis is compelling for not only do we save lives and direct resources, but many indirect resources, for example :-
    All speed limit signs can be abolished as not required
    All expensive electronic motorway signing can be abandoned
    All speed cameras can be abandoned since all vehicles will be electronically speed limited.
    And as a side effect cars will become less efficient, thus yielding higher tax revenue from the sale of fuel etc.
    Unfortunately journeys may take just a little bit longer but this will be totally offset by the increase in food sales and hotel use, which in turn will increase their profits and the VAT revenue.
    As can be seen this is a far reaching project, but ‘Why a University of Potholes’ you may well ask, I will explain:-
    Before implementing this far reaching strategy we need to establish the science beyond doubt and link the pot holes to global warming, and resource will be made available immediately to create a new faculty whose purpose will be to:=
    Count the pot holes
    Establish the population growth patterns
    Establish pot hole criteria eg length, width an depth as well as shape so that the change and growth of potholes can be monitored over time to ensure the necessary targets are being met.
    Ensure cost benefit simulators are designed which correctly ensure that the cost benefit predictions are met.
    Finally this is only the start of an entirely new government initiative with far reaching consequences and I therefore recommend it to the house.

  38. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    mlpinaus says:
    July 9, 2010 at 6:42 pm

    G’day Marcus,

    “Rational & polite” – good advice.
    If you’re in single malt country in a freezing winter, are you too in the southern hemisphere?
    Would a Glenfiddich Special Reserve be to your liking?
    On JD’s blog Amanda says we serve a good cheese platter too, LOL

  39. Pointman says:

    mlpinaus says:
    July 9, 2010 at 7:15 pm

    Ah, the good old days. BBS, screeching modems, CP/M, Z80s and who can ever forget that first horrendous phone bill …

    They’re working hard to get the Internet under control. Legislation being passed everywhere to monitor and censor it. A bit like what happened when the printing press came along.


  40. Amerloque says:

    I would appreciate financing for a comparative study of “pot holes” vs. “holes in the wall”, please. A few million should cover it.

    I would also like financing for the design and maintenance of “pot” holes in the State of California, USA. It is rumoured that marijuana plants require holes with a special shape, to maximize the crop yield. Again, a couple of million should do the job !

    Many thanks !

  41. fenbeagle says:

    regarding Wind Turbines…… I’ve had those conversations too. Did you not get the ‘What would you rather have, a ‘wind farm’ or a nuclear power station?’
    Or ‘they build them in America’
    Or we need them, ’cause there’s a hole in the Ozone layer?

  42. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    manonthemoor says:
    July 9, 2010 at 7:19 pm

    Hi MOTM,

    Great rundown, but in this neck o’ the woods, it’d be TRUE! In recent months we had some local road repairs and widening that took ages with big roadside signs telling us this was a Federal (Labor) Road Project (reminding us to be ever-so-grateful).

    Within a week of its completion potholes started appearing all over and inquiries at the local Council brought the response that “with Global Warming causing this erratic weather, the road didn’t have time to “settle down”. Said with a straight face.

    Result? Road speed reduced to 40 kms per hour and frequent stoppages while they dug it all up and laid it down again. I wonder if that cost came out of the Roads or the Environment Budget and the bloke with the jackhammer was another “green” job.

  43. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Hi fenbeagle,

    It’s too scary, particularly from folks of an age who should still remember what common sense is.

    Amerloque, Hi

    They have a lot of success with hydroponics for your “pot” holes in Oz…lol

  44. Amerloque says:

    A few minutes ago I posted my usual “Now is not the time …” entry on JD’s new subject.

    Refreshed once: it appeared.

    Refreshed twice: it has disappeared.

  45. manonthemoor says:

    July 9, 2010 at 9:22 pm

    What a scam

    Your statement with regard to DISQUS /Google is very powerful

    I have posted to the effect that the DT should ask for their money back as it is not fit for purpose, this might encourage DISQUS to to get involved to improve the situation

    Indirectly it is very BAD publicity for DISQUS and it is being propogated world wide.

    Would you consider buying DISQUS now?

    Keep up the good work


    PS perhaps they will fall down a pothole lol

  46. Hi Guys

    This is the very reasonable reply I have just had from the moderators…very promising:-

    “There seems to be an issue with the spam filter which we are looking into. As soon as we can resolve this issue, normal service will resume.


    The Moderators.”

    All my posts are being restored, at least on JD’s blog. I am still wating for this to happen on Gerald Warner’s blog.

  47. Hi Amerloque

    I saw your superb reminder post appear then disappear on Gerld Warner’s blog. I have reposted it with a slight variation to avert the spam filters.


  48. Amerloque says:

    — >>> manonthemoor
    on July 9, 2010 at 9:32 pm

    Quarter should neither be asked, nor given.

    The demented half-baked counter-factual AGW climate profiteers are attempting to put us all back to the year 1600AD or so, before the Enlightenment. I don’t like that.

    Publicly christening Disqus “the software that supports AGW” might be a start. It could go viral pretty quickly (grin). A few years from now … (wider grin) …

    Another sobriquet could be something on the order of “Disqus – the blogware solution that is killing London’s venerable Daily Telegraph”. That might be a good idea, too.


    Amerloque 20100709 14h05 Paris time (CET)

  49. Amerloque says:

    Hi rr !

    OK, thanks for the confirm !

    Amerloque 20100709 14h08 Paris time (CET)

  50. mlpinaus says:

    “Would a Glenfiddich Special Reserve be to your liking?” …. Yup
    Bowmore, Islay, single malt by choice, Glenfiddich second , Green or Black Label for cooking. Wind farms. ~7% output at nameplate capacity at a 95% confidence level for delivery. Useless for connection to the grid. OK for free-lights in the bush. Even then, you needed a diesel for back up. Flew over the wind farm at Jamestown earlier this year. Half of them not working . A hazard for birds and light aircraft. Back to the Bowmore.

  51. Pointman says:

    NoIdea July 9, 2010 at 5:48 pm

    NoIdea, a very enjoyable read. How you can incorporate what’s happening realtime online is beyond me, you even touched on the Keystone Cops shenanigans going on at the Telegraph yesterday.


    Ps. Congrats, you managed to get ‘Thirts’ into the story. A new word is born.

  52. Pointman says:

    manonthemoor July 9, 2010 at 7:19 pm

    Has this Holes presentation been brought to the attention of the IPCC yet?


    ps. Brilliant

  53. rastech says:

    Dad and myself used to be huge single malt fans, but we have stopped buyin them in the UK now (heck, I’ve stopped buying them abroad until I have tried them to be sure now as well).

    Virtually everything in a whiskey bottle (no matter the price) now seems to have that disgusting drain cleaner produced by that bulk distillery in Scotland in it instead!

    We’ve fallen back on Famous Grouse (still uncorrupted), Benedictine Brandy, Spanish Brandy, Pastis, and some rapidly diminishing supplies of Hungarian Palinka, until we see how things shape up.

    The crooks are hitting people for over £40 a bottle for this rubbish (including Penderyn, who are suppposed to be trying to make a name for themselves!).

    Over on the DT, my comments have been disappearing at a considerable rate too. I’ve pursued it using rapid use of the edit button, plus pasting the entry multiple times as well. Some stuff is starting to get released from the Censor (hopefully the Censor has been released from employment).

    That DISQUS rubbish has got to go, the DT have got to get an in-house system operated and adminstered by themselves.

  54. rastech says:

    “There seems to be an issue with the spam filter which we are looking into. As soon as we can resolve this issue, normal service will resume.”

    The issue is the software that contains the spam filter (along with certain people involved with the offsite moderating, I am convinced).

    It sucks, they suck too.

  55. Pointman says:

    Announcement re the DT blogs – “Elvis has left the building” …


  56. Dave,Edinburgh says:

    Hi All,
    I recently posted an examination of the “unprecedented” increase in CO2 levels since 1890. However, just in case anyone should say I did not go back far enough, I now re-post with CO2 levels 1750 to present, a period of 260 years that should adequately cover “pre-industrial” to present.

    While. almost on a daily basis, fresh evidence is presented by Normal science, it is immediately DENIED by Post Normal science. (if it doesn’t fit with what the GCM’s predict, it must be WRONG, end of debate).

    The data compiled by Post Normal science shows nothing particularly dramatic over the last few decades, only fluctuations well within the range of normal variability, and absolutely nothing that correlates with human emission of CO2.

    “Whatever truth [“Climate Change”] may contain it has surely been damaged [beyond redemption] by its association with this disreputable and vile [“Man-Made”] concept which brazenly casts aside the need for any factual basis and declares in the most unambiguous terms that whatever values it chooses to promote constitutes a truth unimpeachable by reality and a set of values that none dare challenge”.

    The arguments of an unproven hypothesis are worthless in science, only Empirical evidence counts, guided by real data, NOT by the anecdotal clap-trap of scare-mongering, environmental propagandists.

    Does the following sound like proper scientific methodology?
    “The danger of a “normal” reading of science is that it assumes science can first find truth, then speak truth to power, and that truth-based policy will then follow……”self-evidently” dangerous climate change will NOT emerge from a normal scientific process of truth-seeking…scientists – and politicians – must trade truth for influence. What matters about climate change is not whether we can predict the future with some desired level of certainty and accuracy. Climate change is telling the story of an idea and how that idea is changing the way in which our societies think, feel, interpret and act. And therefore climate change is extending itself well beyond simply the description of change in physical properties in our world……”
    “We will continue to create and tell new stories about climate change and mobilise these stories in support of our projects”.

    Who is alleged to have said that?-Mike Hulme, founding director of the Tyndall Centre, Professor of Climate Change at the University of East Anglia. (from a previous post by Catweazle, this is a “must read” as it explains where the whole scam originated, so get a coffee, settle down and read this, including the comments and replies):

    Straight from the horse’s mouth, “dangerous climate change will NOT emerge from a normal scientific process of truth-seeking…scientists – and politicians – must trade truth for influence”. ie. fiddle the data then lie like a beggar.

    So, what evidence do we have to challenge the theory of climate-change catastrophy?
    Let’s deal only with CO2 as that is what is being used for taxation and control purposes, the unhealthy obsession with windmills, the closure of industry, power stations etc., current “cutbacks” on everything except for the funding of “green” initiatives, “alternative” energy scams, in fact the whole alarmist clap-trap that could lead (if not halted) to the introduction of a World enviro-government worse than “Oceania” in George Orwell’s 1984.

    Post Normal science is the perfect vehicle for government and mainstream media to make claims that will sell their propaganda. “Terms like “studies show” or “in a scientific study…” give the false impression that there is a valid scientific basis to claims made in the advertisement, when in fact the wording is “sufficiently legal” to prevent accusations of false advertising, but there is in fact no actual justification to a scientific standard.” (Dr N Kalmanovich)

    This is essentially the so called “scientific basis” behind the Man-Made Climate Change theory, based on two wrong assumptions, first, that the increase in atmospheric concentration of CO2 is primarily sourced from CO2 emissions from fossil fuel consumption, and secondly that this increase in CO2 concentration has caused 0.6C of warming in the past hundred years, and will cause “catastrophic” warming if it is not stopped.

    We hear the constant scaremongering from the AGW brigade that human use of fossil fuels has caused the atmospheric CO2 concentration to increase by some 38% (pre-industrial to present). example source:

    Note, Wiki, in the same article, states “Over 95% of total CO2 emissions are natural” (so only 5% can be Man-Made if that is the case) and “carbon dioxide has gradually accumulated in the atmosphere, and as of 2008, its concentration is 38% above pre-industrial levels”. Something not right wrong there, if only 5% is Man-Made, how come humans must cop for the lot? (and I’m sure I noted elsewhere that humans had caused CO2 concentration to increase by 25%, but possibly that was last month’s hockey stick, so I’ll run with Wiki’s 38% to avoid argument)

    Just stop for a moment, no overcomplicated math, theory or predictions,

    Let’s just look at the CO2 atmospheric concentration levels as a percentage of the atmosphere, bearing in mind that this “unprecedented” 38% increase is included in, but not added to, the total current concentration.

    CO2 concentration in 1750 equalled ~280 parts per million of the atmosphere, 280 over one million = 0.0280, less than 3/100ths of 1%
    (source IPCC AR4), see:

    Today it stands at 389.74ppmv, ~390 parts per million of the atmosphere, 390 over one million = 0.0390, less than 4/100ths of 1%

    So there you have it, “unequivocal” evidence that the total atmospheric CO2 increase over the last 260 years is the bedwetter’s nightmare increase of One-One-hundredth of 1%, a small proportion of which may well have been anthropogenic, although most of it was natural, as the known contribution from insects alone is at least ten times that of humans, not to mention other natural contributions from volcanic eruptions, rotting vegetation, CO2 outgas from warming oceans etc. (I know the scaremongers say humans are responsible for all of it, but that is clearly nonsense)

    So where does the 38% “unprecedented” increase come from?
    Surely, the atmospheric CO2 increase caused by human use of fossil fuels must be (according to warmists) 38% of One-One-hundredth of 1%.
    Get with the beat,Warmists, if it is now ~390 ppmv and you lot wish to say humans are responsible for a 38% portion of the 1/100th of 1% increase of ~110 ppmv over the last 260 years, then 62% of the increase must be natural, what’s the problem? Perhaps warmists fear the atmosphere cannot cope with such “unprecedented” increases? Let’s see,

    Google the mean radius of earth, 6370.9987 km. volume formula 4/3*pi*r^3 = roughly 1014991035148.5156 cubic km

    Do the same for the earth plus the atmosphere (add an extra 100km) = roughly 1064966254007.9085 cubic km

    1064966254007.9085 minus1014991035148.5156 = 49,975,218,859.3929 cubic km
    Seems like there’s room to add 1/100th of 1% atmospheric CO2 increase over 260 years into the mix, and if it keeps increasing at the same “unprecedented” rate for the next 260 years, surely the sky won’t fall from the shear weight of it all.

    and where is all this extra CO2 to be found? Does it form an imaginary layer or “blanket” surrounding the Earth like the glass of a giant “greenhouse”?

    No it doesn’t, If we ignore physics, in a static system all the CO2 in the atmosphere would be at ground level, but switch on the physics blender (reality) and the AGW theory is destroyed as the higher up in the atmosphere we look the less concentration is observed, the pressure would decreases logarithmically as you rise, CO2 therefore CANNOT be confined to a single altitude layer, it would just taper off to smaller and smaller concentrations as you go higher. As warm air rises it expands as pressure lowers, and although it does some “work”, it does not gain heat ( isocaloric process ) therefore as it rises it’s temperature lowers. Any CO2 present being heavier than air, therefore sinks and in a static system would return to ground level.

    But wherever this “unprecedented” 38% of 1/100th of 1% extra CO2 conveniently gathers with it’s molecular mates in the atmosphere, patiently waiting to be heated slightly by a photon of outgoing radiation, it must still follow the laws of physics, begining with the law of entropy change, which completely debunks the “greenhouse effect” for starters.

    PS, I understand that the UK and it’s dominions are responsible for contributing some 2.2% of anthropogenic additions to atmospheric CO2 levels, So is all this nonsense really needed for a UK unilateral reduction, (committed by former minister of overfilled kettles, Ed Miliband, in the Climate Change bill), of 80% of 2.2% of 38% of 1/100th of 1%? especially since the rest of the World seems to have passed on this. Thanks Ed, for passing on this insanity to the current bunch of incompetents.

    The atmosphere is logarithmic, not linear, it is NOT static, it is a chaotic and dynamic system, and there are so many separate disciplines involved in atmospheric “Climate Change” science, thus an overwhelming number of known parameters must be considered, (and like Prof. Easterbrook’s findings, mostly ignored by Post Normal science), not to mention parameters as yet undiscovered, so in a chaotic system such as the earth’s atmosphere any long term prediction of what will happen to future climate is unobtainable by any method currently known to normal science. (although that big round orange thing in the sky might just have something to do with it)

    In Summary, Rumours of impending catastrophe have been greatly extrapolated.

    Do Post Normal scientists need refresher explanations of the logarithmic properties of the CO2 molecule? or data on the 60 year / 900 year oscillations, (NAO,PDO,ENSO etc.) or the 200 year and 11 year Solar oscillations?, or perhaps the reason why the global average temperature is highest every year when the earth is furthest from the sun and why every year summer in the northern hemisphere is warmer than summer in the southern hemisphere? or hows about a full explanation of why their “greenhouse effect” theory violates thermodynamic law?

    If they “know” all about Man-Made Climate Change, they should already know ALL of the above as basic physics.
    (Yes, they DO know, but computer says NO)

    Catweazle, (in reply to CosmicBuddha 06/27/2010 07:23 PM on the Telegraph CB thread) has already provided the scientific equation for the logarithmic properties of the CO2 molecule:
    The equation relating CO2 (or any other greenhouse gas) versus temperature is:

    Delta(T) = K.ln(delta(C))

    Where delta(T) is the change in temperature, K is a constant, ln is the logarithmic function and delta(C) is the change in temperature.

    The implication is that for if particular delta(C) produces a given delta(T), in order to produce the same delta(T) it will be necessary for delta(C) to be doubled.

    A simplified explanation is as follows,
    How it works is you presume that the first 12.5 parts per million has caused a temperature increase of 1.0C. say you add another 25 parts per million to the atmosphere and (for simplicity) say this increases temperature by another 1.0C, adding another 50 ppm will increase temperature by another say 1.0C, add another 100 ppm for another 1.0C, add another 200 ppm for yet another 1.0C of warming, and we have a total of 387.5 ppmv for a warming of around 5.0C which is roughly where we are today. If we then double the present 389 ppmv by adding say another 400 ppmv we get an increase of only another 1.0C, nowhere near the nonsense figures touted by the scaremongers.

    Note that at it’s current CO2 level of ~390 ppmv, in geological terms, the Earth’s atmosphere is CO2 impoverished, eg. Ordovician period, CO2 concentration 4,400 ppmv, temperatures about the same as today, no “runaway” warming problem, this after a fall from 7,000 ppmv (Cambrian), periods that preceded one of Earth’s major ice ages.

    quick ref:

    Note also that US submarines work at CO2 concentration levels reaching 8,000 ppm which as yet has not appeared to have caused any crew member to do anything silly. see:

    Click to access PrimeronGlobalWarming.pdf

    Finally, predicted temperature increase caused by CO2. The current Global CO2 increase is established at ~2 ppmv per year therefore in 100 years from now the Earth’s temperature “may” have risen by 1.2C, but this can only be achieved if we use the same wrong assumption as that used by the IPCC in their models, based on the Arrhenius supposition relating 0.6C of observed warming directly to a 100ppmv increase in atmospheric CO2 concentration.

    But Post Normal science says: “The scientific case for CO2 and NOT solar variation being the most significant factor in recent (+50yr) global warming.”

    Sorry, but WHAT recent +50yr. global warming? their theory does not fit the facts.

    Most of the warming in the 20th Century was before 1940, a time when human contributions to atmospheric CO2 were trivial. Post 1940 heavy industry got going and more “anthropogenic” CO2 was delivered into the atmosphere than ever before, while temperatures COOLED, enough to trigger the scaremongering nonsense of the impending ice age touted in the early 1970’s.

    Temperatures INCREASED [BEFORE 1940] with NO help from CO2, and as CO2 increased [AFTER 1940] temperatures REDUCED.

    While warmists promote the theory that all CO2 increases and any slight warming have happened within the last ten minutes and it’s all your fault, as there were fewer temperature stations sited next to asphalt runways/air con. exhaust vents etc. c1750, “Methinks they doth protest too much.”

    The lack of any recent warming is a clear indication that the warming phase of a natural oscillation has ended. Not one of the models on which the whole AGW theory is based, predicted that there would be 15 years without any statistically-significant “global warming”, the years 1995-2009 inclusive.(confirmed as correct by Phil Jones, UK CRU. in his BBC interview).
    Clear evidence of the end plateau of the ~30 year warming phase, as the Earth’s climate moved into it’s next ~30 year cooling phase of the natural ~60 year oscillation. (and that’s before we even mention Solar cycles and other oscillations)

    To clarify this just look at the oscillation data.

    It is interesting to note that there is an apparent oscillation with a frequency of ~60 years because mean global temperature is estimated to have cooled from ~1880 to ~1910, then warmed to ~1940, then cooled to ~1970, then warmed to 1998, and has cooled since then. It is tempting to speculate that this ocillation is a harmonic effect.

    However, there may be no process because the climate is a chaotic system. Therefore, the observed oscillations (i.e. NAO, PDO, etc. and the 60 year oscillation) could be observation of the system seeking its chaotic attractor(s) in response to its seeking equilibrium in a changing situation.

    Very importantly, there is an apparent ~900 year oscillation that caused the Roman Warm Period (RWP), then the Dark Age Cool Period (DACP), then the Medieval Warm Period (MWP), then the Little Ice Age (LIA), and the present warm period (PWP). All the observed rise of global temperature in the twentieth century could simply be recovery from the LIA that is similar to the recovery from the DACP to the MWP. And the ~900 year oscillation could be the chaotic climate system seeking its attractor(s). If so, all global climate models and attribution studies utilized by the IPCC are based on the false premise that there is a force or process causing climate to change when no such force or process exists.
    also, there are 11year and 200 year Solar oscillations that must be included.

    So why do they try to suggest that there is +50 year warming? The Earth has been warming naturally since the end of the LIA, (~0.5C per century), if not we would still be stuck in the LIA, which next begs the question: What caused the temperature increase that ended the LIA as it could NOT have been caused by heavy industrial (anthropogenic) use of fossil fuels?.

    and just exactly which scientists say the scientific case for CO2 and NOT solar variation is the most significant factor? let me guess, could it be Briffa, Mann, Jones, Hansen, Schneider, Ehrlich et al? (the consensus)

    Honestly, does that not make you just a teensy bit suspicious?

    In 1988 Hansen et al published a paper “Global Climate Changes as Forecast by Goddard Institute for Space Studies Three-Dimensional Model” in the Journal of Geophysical Research, that introduced the “CO2 forcing parameter”.

    This parameter has no actual basis in physics, but is merely based on the Arrhenius supposition that a 100ppmv increase in CO2 was primarily responsible for the 0.6C measured increase in global temperature that had been observed over the past century.

    The assumption ignored the fact that over this time period there was both cooling and warming concurrent with rising CO2 concentration, and considering that this paper was published just 18 years after a 30 year cooling trend (1940-1970) that also had a concurrent increase in CO2 concentration there is no possible justification for Hansen’s assumption. In fact from 1940 till the present ending 2009, (69 years) there has been 41 years of cooling and only 28 years of warming. There has been no +50year recent warming, therefore, with no basis in fact, Hansen’s forcing parameter is entirely a fabrication, and the projections of climate models based on this fabricated parameter are also meaningless fabrications.

    The Earth has been warming since the Little Ice Age at a rate of about 0.5C natural warming per century.(although there is cooling as well as warming, each century (not decade) has ended approx. 0.5C warmer than it’s predecessor)
    The temperature value to determine the CO2 forcing parameter was 0.6 C, with the difference from the 0.5 C per century natural warming value likely due to heat island effect. But even if this difference was directly due to CO2 increases, the difference between the observed temperature and the natural warming since the Little Ice Age is only 0.1C although the full 0.6C was used to fabricate the forcing parameter without deducting the 0.5C per century natural warming since the LIA.

    “Facts no longer matter. We simply decide how we want to see the world and then go out and find experts and evidence to back our beliefs”.
    “At a conference of elected officials I was asked, “What is the one piece of advice you would give us?” I replied, “Stop hiring the consultants that tell you what you want to hear.” They responded with silence, so I added, “But that is not what you wanted to hear.” (Farhad Manjoo)

    So, it’s over to the supporters of AGW to produce some evidence that anthropogenic contributions to the atmosphere are anything other than trivial, at which point I may change my position, but untill then, I leave the last words to the the Late, Great, George Carlin on “Global Warming”:

    Don’t believe we’ve met David. Welcome to LibertyGibbert… drop by anytime – Oz

  57. Here’s the adult version of the spy scandal. To import Russian crude is politically untenable with Americans, in the Fed’s eyes, so they dreamed this entire pack of spy lies up for the sake of selling the public on the idea. Yanks in the Fed’s minds will never be friends with Russia as Russians apparently don’t much like Martin Luther–things like Kursk and Stalingrad may have prejudiced their view somewhat–and laugh at the Book of Revelations, which isn’t key component of the Russian Orthodox faith. We’ve traded the usual librarians and idle watchers for four PR postdated toadstools.

    Also Obama, the man with the 50 dollar bill raining helicopter, is going to dupe the Russian Federation’s takeover of the YUKOS firm with BP’s US holdings, except I think he will pay for them for it. Buy BP stock now while you can.

    BP’s only mistake was to buy Amoco.

    I love the timing of this influx of Russian crude especially.

    Tuesday, July 06, 2010
    Russian oil has taken an unexpected turn to the U.S., where it is making inroads on the West Coast.

  58. “That DISQUS rubbish has got to go, the DT have got to get an in-house system operated and adminstered by themselves.”

    They had that before. All I know is, I know Americans. If the Delirium Tremens was stupid enough to sub out moderating a blog to a Yank firm, either the DT is an American operation in the first place on a sub rosa basis (not likely, but they did have shareholderss, and those could be anyone) or the DT per se does not have editorial control whatever over their own newspaper. I don’t miss Bush as much as I do Lord Black. BTW, I have always despised “defrocking” lords and sirs for malfeasances of whatever nature: it is the Crown saying that the good you did for which you were rewarded never happened, which is not for the Crown to say. As they have subbed it out to a Yank firm, there is nothing you can say that even if they were all British expats (or especially expats), nothing will constrain them from ruining the British operation. The British military saw lots of that rivalry during WW II, Korea and Iraq and Afghanistan. No price too great nor mountain too high to keep us from effing up an ally, has always been the American way. Middle East politics aren’t a Middle Eastern invention LOL! They just learned from us.

    Shane Richmond is already buried alive, though to gather from the volume of his excellent output, that is his preferred mode of existence.

    OT, even though Anna Chapman looked like a pretty Vietnamese potbellied pig with hooters, full marks for her for ditching her ex. Anyone who would complain about his wife not liking American movies needs to be shot. Find me the woman who feels like Anna! We do stoopid magnificently, but the deep meaning movies are enough to justify any act of treason. Hollywood even knows this: Tropic Thunder sent up at less five deep-meaning stinkers everyone hated, if they spoke their minds honestly, and the audiences loved it.

    Maybe if scriptwriters were compelled to watch their own films by act of Congress at least five times over (no blindfolds and earplugs), that would solve the problem.

  59. rastech says:
    July 10, 2010 at 12:01 am

    I wave my private parts in the face of their grandmothers.

  60. manonthemoor says:

    Hi Walt

    Are you convinced it outsourced mods?
    they claim not to RR etc

  61. Amanda says:

    Ivan Niforyu the Zombie Drowned Polar Bear and Presidential Naturopathic Proctologist

    That is so quackers that I think Walt must be Duckham’s twin brother, separated at birth. Which just goes to show what can happen when you make Peak Oil your hobby and buy a tent in Indonesia.

  62. manonthemoor says:

    July 10, 2010 at 7:26 am

    Hi Amanda
    I was wrong about Pig porridge it applies to DISQUS

    Seems to have stuck on your last post for 20 mins lol

  63. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    mlpinaus says:
    July 9, 2010 at 11:13 pm

    G’day Marcus,

    About a month ago we took a trip down the Limestone Coast of South Australia and encountered the hundreds of wind turbines at Millicent and right around the southern coast into Victoria. Same as you describe at Jamestown – many of them not working, and when we drove up alongside them, some were silent (except for the woomp, woomp of the blades) while others sounded like a cement-mixer full of ball-bearings.

    When we got back to Tasmania I contacted the local Energy Authority for info on them here, no such thing available. I contacted our local Federal MP to find out for me such detail as number of units in Oz, percentage of wind power on grid, amount of Govt Subsidy paid per unit, value of Renewable Energy Credits per unit etc etc. No such info available.

    How can Environmental/ETS Legislation possibly be put before a Parliament when none of this info is available for an MP to consider? Bunch of glove-puppets, the lot of them.

    On to more important things……having never tried Bowmore, I Gargled it, and decided that at $150 a bottle, its delights will forever remain a mystery to me…LOL


  64. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Good morning Amanda,

    How is your packing going? Sounds too hot for a move to Florida.

    Speaking of porridge, about to tuck into some (with maple surple of course) to warm my little chidlums up. (Have no idea what a chidlum is, or where I’d find it, but Granny always said that was the only way she could get me to eat the stuff…LOL)

  65. Amanda says:

    Blackswan, your granny sounds great. We always ate to keep the woolly-worms away, and I don’t know what they are, either. Better than heartworm, for sure.

    It’s not only too hot to move to Florida, it’s too bloody hot for stirring outside, though of course we do. I need a G&T, but all me tonic’s flat from a month ago. Bugger. And sorry about the swearing. It’s the heat that does it. How funny: you’re cold, I perspire with the simple exertion of darning my hot-water bottle cover. Be glad you’re there!

  66. Amanda says:

    Hi Manonthemoor.

  67. Amanda says:
    July 10, 2010 at 7:26 am

    Hello, Amanda! It’s Florida in upstate New York at the moment, but the new AC unit is on full blast. Ahhhhh! It’s such a pleasurable experience I know I shall contract a cold. Normally I don’t “do” air conditioning.

    More Daffy Duck than Donald, though Donald in ballistic mode has occurred in the form of my august person, especially after dropping something hot on my quacker.

    Mum tried to warn us kids off watching too many cartoons. Didn’t work. We have turned into them. If such circumstances didn’t influence foreign policy and electoral choices, it wouldn’t be a bad thing.

  68. Amanda says:

    G’day y’all.


    Last night we were treated to a dinner out (grateful client, etc. — not mine, his), and someone put a mammoth margarita glass in front of me. It was piled high with pink candy floss. I ate it.

    End of confession.

  69. Amanda says:

    P. S. And this is after I had been told my dentist and hygienist — that very day — that my teeth and gums are stupendously healthy and surely I must floss regularly. I said yes, which goes to show I’m incredibly truthful, even in advance of knowing!

  70. Amanda says:

    Gogglebear sez: Normally I don’t “do” air conditioning.

    No, fresh air is so much better. An open window, an invigorating breeze.

    If I had wanted to live in a refrigerator, I would have come back as a jar of mayonnaise instead of myself.

  71. Amanda says:

    If such circumstances didn’t influence foreign policy and electoral choices, it wouldn’t be a bad thing.

    Which cartoon is Barry, then? Go on, take a stab at it (so to speak).

  72. A bit thick Duckham holds court as a pro-democracy leftist (there is no such thing nor was there ever) when he has two servants, about which Bwana Mallard is so often wont to brag. Or that women’s lib still holds Virginia Woolf as a feminist icon when she had four live-in servants.

    I suspect Leonard Woolf strangled her then put two rocks in her cardigan and through her in the river, but what is more likely is that Virginia took the train to London for plastic surgery to make her look like Leonard, and while under wraps still, pounded him to death with a Revere heirloom silver teapot, dressed him up as herself after a few hedge-clipper mods, then chucked HIM in the river. After two weeks, with the level of forensic analysis available then, no one could officially tell the difference.

    And that’s how she lived out the rest of her life. LOL! It’d make a funny movie or premise for yet another unwatchable sanctimonious movie, “The Hours,” which needed a laugh track, IMHO, especially when that guy jumped out the window. Jumpers don’t thrash on the way down, they either brace against the impact or swan-dive.

  73. Hello, Amanda.

    Good show on the toofies. Margarooties are an essential food group, I’m told, in Florida, especially if you are moving to Jimmy Buffetville.

    I shall be pleased to do a Barmy Obarmy, if you like. Any ideas for the composition and characters? Something epic, please.

  74. through should be threw. Digital retardoitis strikes again! Yaargh!

  75. Gahan Wilson, BTW, was my idol in editorial cartooning as a teenager and all through the 1960’s and 1970’s. Most people flipped through their Playboy’s to see his latest cartoon before going to the pictures of the girls (Yeah. Right. ).

    His work for the “National Lampoon” before it went Hollywood was his best work, though. Most of it is still counterculture, more so than anything is now.

  76. Sylvester and Tweetie is the closest I can think of. Think of Tweetie as genuine public affection, respect and a balanced budget LOL!

    There needs to be an ORIGINAL Barry cartoon character, and a thematic plot of sorts.

  77. Pepe Le Pew is the closest fit for Sarkozy. Baby Huey is the best fit for Ca-marooned. Mr. Magoo was the closest fit for Dubya.

  78. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Went cruisin’ over at the DT/JD site to see wassup? and I just don’t geddit.

    The biggest outrage/scam/story of the 21st century HAS to be the 50 Billion Pounds a year X 40 years (almost ONE BILLION A WEEK x 40 YEARS) that headlined the blog for LESS than 24 hours attracting only 221 comments.

    It was ousted by the story on an 80K a year Quango Queen, followed by the current post on a drop-kick Lefty/Green comedian that has attracted over 530 comments.

    What is wrong with this picture?

    Fifty billion quid a year for 40 years is the whole POINT of the AGW Fraud. It is the whole POINT of the Political sell-out to the AGW Fraud. It’s the whole POINT of the “Scientific” sell-out to the AGW Fraud. It’s the whole POINT of the Inquiry Whitewashes.

    For the great “unwashed” masses who don’t understand the science/politics of AGW, they can sure as hell understand that this is a billion quid a WEEK for 40 YEARS that won’t be going into the NHS or Road or Rail infrastructure or the Education of their kids or grandkids.

    This should be banner headlines and I don’t understand why JD gave it the flick after less than 24 hours.

    Most of the comment is about Disqust and irrelevant. What a crock. I just don’t geddit.

    The sort of information available to Brits is not even available in our country. Everything here is done behind closed doors, under the table, and usually transacted in brown paper bags.

    Maybe someone can explain it to me. Ooops (hank again). Make that, what do you guys make of the biggest story being such a non-event?

    Swanny, you’ve just said it all – Oz

  79. Amanda says:

    Walt, dinner’s almost on the table, will have to get back to you on all that.

    But Chris reminded me that the candy floss came with a lit candle in the top of it — which my co-diner promptly put out by pinching at the floss, which I can forgive because he’s only 16 and male as well, and what do you expect? Besides, ever heard of anything sillier?

  80. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Dave,Edinburgh says:
    July 10, 2010 at 1:38 am

    G’day Dave,

    Found your post, took your advice to settle down with a coffee, and read one of the best essays on AGW Fraud I’ve seen. Even a numpty like me could understand it.

    Thanks so much. Hope we see a lot more of your contributions about the place.


  81. Dave,Edinburgh says:

    Thank you Ozboy for the welcome,

    Sorry if my post was a tad long, but as Pointman and RR found the first version
    (posted in the DT before it’s collapse) worth a read, I thought I would post the remix on this thread after your excellent lead article.

    As Blackswan Tasmania correctly observes the Brits just don’t get the point of the AGW fraud, One Billion a Week for 40 years wasted over a CO2 increase of One One Hundredth of 1% over a period of 260 years is beyond belief.

    I’ll stop now as I’m getting wound up again, I’ve just received an e-mail from David Cameron asking for ideas on how the government can save money, you just couldn’t make it up.
    Thanks again for the welcome,

  82. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Amanda says:
    July 10, 2010 at 9:55 am

    The description of your cocktail is amazing. Spun sugar PLUS a candle? What is it with all the crap in Ladies’ drinks? Did they serve one similarly to Mr A?

    I can only assume that with all the sugared glass-rims, fruit salad/little umbrellas/and now candy-floss-with candle, there are several things at work here;

    1) What about Archimedes’ Principle? With all the crap in the glass, you get less grog.
    2) With less grog you buy more of them.
    3) If women are preoccupied with the frippery, maybe they don’t notice they are getting

    Tip for a Martini or a Gibson (made with Tanqueray gin, most aromatic and refreshing). Order a side dish of olives or onions. That old Archimedes chap again…lol

    Bottoms up………

  83. Hi, Blackswan. Number Three works for me LOL! I look forward to Dave Edinburgh’s article, too.

    Sounds like you are having a great time there, which summers are for. Hope the move to Florida goes nicely. It is a lovely state. You might tell Mr. Amanda if he is buying, he can save a many dollars a year on the insurance plus up the resale value of the property if he gets the place weatherized to the new (2006-8) installed and implemented hurricane proofing standards. I did a major writeup for my other job, the contractor cost estimator annual workbook editing project, on just that topic: post-Katrina weatherization of homes for hurricane-proofing insurance compliance standards. I can post a copy here, if you like. There are now punchlists for what you need. The press notwithstanding, Bush’s response to Katrina was profoundly well-taken, timely and in-depth and Gertrude’s Fed response reflects that. The difference between him and Kablama is Bush never blamed his predecessors for all his current problems. He just fixed those predecessors’ problems and moved on like a man of worth and honour.

    BTW, I get attempted hacks by Smith Micro all the time (and blow them up with regularity and great vigour). They are California based. Anyone up for a jaunt over there to see if they are possibly bragging about their new DT account and blog moderating service?

    Pointman, the nitwits plunking the Cialis drugstore crap on my website are doing so through the .htaccess associated with the FrontPage extensions on my page code. I’ve stripped out those extensions, so we shall see what happens. To anyone else who has a Website made with FrontPage or Publisher, I don’t care how many passwords and codes you have, if there is .htaccess in your Website file lists, you need to deep-six that dude pronto.

  84. mlpinaus says:

    Blackswan Tasmania says:
    July 10, 2010 at 7:48 am

    That “wind farm not moving” thing seems to be a rule. Flew over the one on the way to Kangaroo island in February this year. Same result. Can’t remember where I got the 95% cofidence level figure from, but it definately was for the South Australian ones. The pollies love them. They can open them , and point to their priapic presence a sign of their (the pollies) green credentials. We, the punters, just pay for them. And pay.

    rastech says:
    July 9, 2010 at 11:59 pm

    No point in drinking cheap wine or whiskey. I’ll be dead in 20-30 years, so I enjoy the better stuff in retirement, without reservation.

    Pointman says:
    July 9, 2010 at 7:37 pm

    The good old days. Shreeking modems…. No, when the world was young, I worked for the CSIRO’s then VLSI program. This was when the “S” meant Science, not a Voodoo God, meaning “post normal”. DARPAnet was the connection between various US (military?) funded R&D universities and places like Xerox PARC. And little old Adelaide. The computing horsepower in Adelaide was a big DEC 11/780 supermini of the day. Thing I remember about PARC, (apart from Lyn Conway) was the DORADO, a filing cabinet size “desktop”, with the complete mouse/ high definition B/w graphics, icons interface, desktop paradim of today. Essentially, I think this concept then first turned into Apple’s LISA, then the MAC. Christ I’m getting old.



  85. Amanda says:

    Blackswan (beautiful image, that),

    you have the wrong idea. The floss was *served* in a glass, but there weren’t no beverage involved, of any kind. It was just a big glass — now I think about it, I was wrong: it was a martini glass writ large — full of spun candy. I’ve had better sea bass in the rooftop tree-house of Thorins in Tunbridge Wells (Kent, the garden county of England), and better food overall at Ophelia’s On The Bay (Sarasota, Florida: right on the water, of course). But for novelty it’s hard to beat that dessert.

    Don’t worry, Blackswan. There was plenty to drink otherwise :^)

  86. Amanda says:

    He just fixed those predecessors’ problems and moved on like a man of worth and honour.

    You’ll get no argument from *me*, Walt.

  87. Amanda says:

    Welcome and good ev’nong, Dave of Edinburgh (yes, ‘eve’nong’ is deliberate, I’ll explain another time or not bother, whichever seems more appropriate).

  88. Amanda says:

    Blackswan at 9:46: Good post, and thank you.

  89. crownarmourer says:

    I wonder what the time is

    Not sure, but you’ve just posted LibertyGibbert’s 3000th comment! Many thanks to you all for your support – Oz

  90. crownarmourer says:

    hmm late been a long round trip to Nashville and back and yet again we drove the bad weather gods before us.

  91. Edward. says:


    Anthony Watts has on his blog recycled a remarkable polemic by Micheal Crichton, if I may make so bold as to place the link here, it is a perceptive piece and skewers and then roasts postmodern scientific thinking IMHO everybody should revisit Crichton’s essay and if you haven’t seen it, it is a must read.


  92. Edward. says:

    Do I get bronze for being 3002?


  93. GoggleBear says:

    manonthemoor says:
    July 10, 2010 at 7:09 am

    Hi, MOTM. In the absence of any other credible option, yes I am. The mods have no grasp of the nuances and sensitivities nor even of the regional slang being used, so they cannot be Commonwealth. They’ve little interest in doing the job right, or it’s what we call in the permatemp field “a death march,” as in Bataan, where you are punching the clock for a cheque weekly as opposed to working with cool people for a decent rate and solving nifty and hairy problems. Moderating a blog is about 3 notches below holding an enema bag for a vet servicing an elephant to an IT person anywhere, so I am sure it went to a Yank firm. The sorts of mistakes they are making in their moderation bear the unmistakable hallmarks of the disgruntled worker. Either that, or the DT has an illegal immigrant Polish worker doing the job in a back closet in the basement boiler room, and that worker is doing the job on a BYOB basis (bring your own bottle) as no one is monitoring the moderators, just as few government spies monitor counterintelligence workers unless their name is George Smiley. This is why I am spending so much time on my new book project based on the premise that J. Edgar Hoover, Sir Stewart Menzies, De Gaulle, and Sir Winston Churchill and James Jesus Angleton were all working for Stalin. It’s the only way history makes sense. (Um, it’s a HUMOROUS WORK, A SATIRE, DON’T SHOOT ME. Thanks).

    I think the above is true, but for one other option, which, as it is the worst-case option, is probably the real one: the whole idea of the blog sequence was to find out who offered lucid resistance to AGW, and when the DT staff are satisfied they have caught enough of us, giant robots like the ones in “Sky Captain and The World of Tomorrow” are going to stop by all our homes and scrunch us flatter than pancakes.

  94. crownarmourer says:

    It wasn’t me wot did it guv it was the other bloke.

  95. GoggleBear says:

    SmithMicro would be the ideal service provider front. They’ve all the kit and the talent except the ability to understand English, which is why people become IT majors in the first place anymore LOL! IMHO, of course. I could always be wrong.

    mlpinaus says:
    July 10, 2010 at 1:20 pm

    Do you know what an IBM 1401 B3 or C6 were? 16K and 32K (equivalent) of RAM in a one tonne package, and programming consisted of pre-setting switches on the front of the CPU and punchcards at the front of your datafile punchcards that you loaded into a cardreader the size of a small car with exposed rollers and shafts turning at velocities which could really hurt you if you got your tie caught in them.

    Nifty toys as well, but not used for commo at all, for some reason LOL!

  96. GoggleBear says:

    crownarmourer says:
    July 10, 2010 at 5:30 pm

    Hey, buddy. Waddup? I think AGW is all going to sort out like Angelina Jolie’s new flick “Salt.” The wrong person who is actually right about an impending disaster is the one who gets dropped into the pit of starving hamsters, while the real baddie is left to do the rotten deed the wrong person tried to warn everyone about.

    If the level of energy and talent devoted to AGW were committed to solving the global fiscal problem, we could put the Sun’s brother-in-law on a contract to twist his bro’s arm to cool his jets. Bada bing bada boom. Capiche?

  97. GoggleBear says:

    Typical DT headline now (it would not even have been posted except on page 15 ten years ago) Raoul Splurt Shoots Himself Dead Prior to Police Capture.

    Well, it would be kind of hard to do otherwise at that range, with the pistol barrel to one’s noggin. He isn’t going to go for a foot shot, royt? Brilliant journalism, that.

  98. GoggleBear says:

    Wot oy’m sayin’ is, mebbe it ’tis ye aulde buggymucked up Delirium Tremens on loyf support. Mebbe THEY is going to Skintland Palace near the Royal Eye at the moment, cuz they borried too much from certain Tories to stay afloat, and now the darling financiers are calling in their marker….all at once.

  99. Amerloque says:

    —>>> Walt in his stuck polar bear head

    /// Gahan Wilson, BTW, was my idol in editorial cartooning as a teenager and all through the 1960′s and 1970′s. Most people flipped through their Playboy’s to see his latest cartoon before going to the pictures of the girls (Yeah. Right. ). ///

    Jeez, Walt, in SoCal in the ’50s we only bought Playboy “to read the interviews and the articles” !

    (wide grin)

  100. GoggleBear says:

    Best lady movie spy ever: Lotte Lenya as KGB Col. Rosa Kleb in “Dr. No.” Upstaged everyone, and I think she had no more than ten spoken lines in the whole film, and well into her sixties at the time. Subsequent generations getting stupider is no recent phenomenon, is what I’m saying. Now that all the key folks are aging and leaving, there may not be the interest in finding and paying someone competent to moderate the DT’s type blog. If you were twenty-five, would you like to ride herd on a (basically) borderline or full-blown geriatric clutch of congenial grouches?

  101. crownarmourer says:

    Everyone seems to be awake at last over on rastechs chat talking to noidea

  102. GoggleBear says:

    Wotchit, Amerloque, that head is alive bwahahahaha!

    I miss Christopher Lee and Peter Cushing monster films, too.

    What movie does this come from?

    “He was mean and cruel right from the start,
    And now he really has no heart.” Thump-thump, thump-thump.

  103. crownarmourer says:

    Leave it us gen Xers we are total grouches as yet, I was born when the world was still in black and white and Dr Who was a hetero.

  104. crownarmourer says:

    I shall moderate the DT blogs with a fair but biased hand of a true conservative none of this PC and multiculti crap free speech shall reign unless I disagree with it.

  105. GoggleBear says:

    crownarmourer says:
    July 10, 2010 at 6:13 pm

    I was just getting ready to call it quits (again). We had rain, so it’s a bit nicer…of course, AFTER I get the A/C unit put in.

    Night all.

  106. crownarmourer says:

    Gogglebear was it Mary Poppins?

  107. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Edward. says:
    July 10, 2010 at 4:46 pm

    Hi Ed,
    Thanks for the Michael Crichton piece. Says it all really.
    In the seven and a half years since he delivered that lecture how many pairs of deaf ears has it fallen upon?

    When I was in high school I was desperate to become a print journalist, one of the reasons I took Latin classes, a university degree requirement in those days.
    Destiny had other plans for me, but I never forgot the high esteem in which I held those intrepid correspondents who brought to my narrow reality the News of the World that unfolded before me in a broadsheet newspaper.

    Maybe it is the echo of those sentiments which so enrages me when I see what a “pig’s porridge” (thanks Amanda) the modern MSM has made of this AGW Fraud.

    Lazy, unprincipled, unethical creeps who grab their ankles at the first sign of disapproval from the guy with the chequebook. No Honour, No Respect, No Courage.

    If you ever wonder why we in Oz follow the UK/USA scene at all, try the following link and if you like your cricket, you’ll understand the comparisons from a man who understood honour, respect and courage.

    “Labor hasn’t a clue about the damage it has done to Australia,” Loxton says.
    “Up my way, the poor old pensioners are going to bed at 6pm because they can’t afford to turn their lights on at night. What have the Labor Governments, both state and federal, done with all of our money?” he asks rhetorically”.

    I really believe it’s one thing to break the spirit of a nation and its people, but it takes bastardry to a whole new level to break their hearts.

  108. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Goggle Bear @ 5.28pm
    G’day Walt,

    “the whole idea of the blog sequence was to find out who offered lucid resistance to AGW”

    Exactly. A digital “focus group”. NOT to rethink their “product”, merely a way to ascertain their opposition and strategize against it.

  109. crownarmourer says:

    Gogglebear it is possible to fail to kill oneself at point blank range with a shot gun under ones chin. A friend of my brothers was doing way to much bad drugs and was feeling somewhat pissed off because his ex girlfriend had found someone new he decided under the influence of god knows what to do them both in. The new boyfriend tried to stop him and was killed by the idiot then and only then did it sink in through the haze of drugs what he had done, then tried to kill himself, blew off most of his lower jaw instead. Well the gave him a new jaw and patched him up to spend god only knows how much time in the clink. If you are an asshole then make sure you top yourself correctly.

  110. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Hey Goggle Bear,

    “If you were twenty-five, would you like to ride herd on a (basically) borderline or full-blown geriatric clutch of congenial grouches?”

    My gorgeous Cygnet, at almost 25, has returned to her hometown to do just that!! lol

    Aren’t I a lucky swan?

  111. crownarmourer says:

    Blackswan more about profit than evil at the DT, I have worked on way too many IT projects to know that someone has a great idea and management puts in there two penneth worth and effs it up and decides to underfund it and expects a miracle.

  112. Amerloque says:

    Hi All !

    My comments are currently being zapped on GLean’s recent entry on Climategate on the DT.

    Amerloque 20100710 10h34 Paris time (CET)

  113. crownarmourer says:

    Not again amerloque.

  114. crownarmourer says:

    Filter issues or someone is misusing moderator powers.

  115. manonthemoor says:

    July 10, 2010 at 5:28 pm

    Hi Walt thanks for your comments interesting times we live in. I have always suspected a much bigger plan or influence at th DT

    I have a friend who plays with video and Youtube, and I have posted my ‘Holes’ piece above to him to get his interest and to help produce something useful.

    I have some more ideas as well but will see how things go

    Talking old mainframes I worked on 16K and 32K core stores the size of small wardrobes, as well as punch card readers, as well as line printers etc etc.

    Happy Days


  116. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    “Yet Another Costly Green Plan Hits the Wall”

    The List for this Fraud is growing…………

    …..and we can get no information as to where these borrowed Billions have come from, exactly what we owe and where it’s gone. The numbers just don’t add up.

    Maybe a Muir Russell-style Inquiry would help. Yeah, right.

  117. crownarmourer says:

    Blackswan I have no doubt it is all one big scam to milk what is left of the West’s wealth and enrich themselves further.

  118. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Hi Crown,

    IMHO the Beancounters ARE the evil bastards who hold everyone else to their own amoral standards. Demanding miracles and corner-cutting from others while lining their own pockets with the proceeds. No Integrity, No Honour, No Respect.

  119. Blackswan Tasmania says:


    We just cross posted to agree….yet again LOL

  120. NoIdea says:

    Hiya Blackswan.
    I noted from the link you provided…“How she or Swan can still be believed on anything any more is beyond me,” Loxton says – and he has just about seen it all. This seems a touch personal. What did you do to peeve this fellow?

  121. crownarmourer says:

    Blackswan Walt has a better handle on the finance stuff than me but yes it is a way to make them rich at out expense, a tax as it will but will the plebs behave when the power goes out in our new multiculti societies methinks not.

  122. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    G’day NoIdea,

    Yeah, I was a bit miffed ;>p

    He meant Wayne Swan, KRudd’s Treasurer and now Jooolya’s Deputy PM, an original member of the gang-of-four who decided all these policies-on-the-run without going to Cabinet (for those who didn’t know)..LOL

  123. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Good point Crown,

    Think of the Red Shirts in Bangkok for example. It’s not we reticent Anglos who are first at the barricades (unless you’re a Pommie football nutter), unless you count the anti-Vietnam protests. Don’t remember seeing too many ethnic faces in that crowd footage.

    Wonder what will happen when all the “rights & entitlements” wither away.

  124. NoIdea says:

    Hiya Blackswan.

    I am glad you have cleared your good name. Could Wayne change his last name to Kerr to avoid any possible further confusion?

  125. Amerloque says:

    Hi Walt, of the Polar Bear Head

    ///“He was mean and cruel right from the start,
    And now he really has no heart.” Thump-thump, thump-thump///

    “Tales from the Crypt” (grin)

    Now, who was Emiko Yemani ? (wider grin)


  126. Amerloque says:

    Hi Blackswan Tasmania !
    at July 10, 2010 at 9:46 am

    // Went cruisin’ over at the DT/JD site to see wassup? and I just don’t geddit.


    It was ousted by the story on an 80K a year Quango Queen … ///

    Well … the first thought that hit me was that JD was attempting to attract more AGW rejectionists/realists from the western United States to his blog, from an entirely new population, one that is not conversant with current British politics.

    Imagine you live in, say, Buffalocrap, Montana, or some other one-horse town. You are into, er, after-hours entertainment, especially S/M …

    With a hit like “Suzi Leather” returned by bing or one of the search engines, you wouldn’t imagine in a gazillion years that the aforementioned “Suzi Leather” refers to “Dame Susan Catherine “Suzi” Leather, DBE MBE DL MA LLD”, would you ? Eh ?

    Moreover, she’s a “dame”. Out West, down Buffalocrap way, that is shorthand for “Madame”, the lady who runs the biggest House of Ill Repute a few miles outside the State Capital.

    So you click on the link and discover a hardhitting MSM anti-AGW blogger …

    With all that moderator doohdah going on over at the DT, JD probably felt that it was a good time to reach out.

    (Your points are well taken.)


    Amerloque 20100710 11h45 Paris time (CET)

    (signing off for lunch now)

  127. theendisnighnot says:

    Great to see DaveEdinburgh’s earlier post. Posts like that were one of the main reasons I started following JD’s blog and ended up in “OZ’s bar and grill” Dave i hope you don’t mind but have copied it and sent it to loads of friends & relatives as for the non-scientific amongst us it explains so much and in lay mans terms. I would be really interested in say Izen’s response line by line, no cherry picking or smoke and mirrors. Blackswan you’r right about the complete lack of reporting the now 50 billion quid P/A to combat a non-existent problem which even if it were a problem we couldn’t do nought about it in the UK. Unfortunately in the UK just as with the relationship with Euroland for some bizarre reason we always adhere to laws/directives etc whereas other countries notably France just obey the ones that suit them (and fair bloody play to them i say). Fortunately as providence would have it they aint got any money the only country that has China won’t be spending much of it any time soon on this load of old tosh! Also when “joe public” wakes up and finds the welfare checks aren’t being paid etc etc whether they agree/disagree or more likely couldn’t give a flying whatsit they will not be happy. So ultimately I’m personally fairly confident the whole scam will go away albeit not quietly or soon. What i’ll never understand is this perverse longing for catastrophe that infects these clowns. Personally i think life’s great the alternative not so appealing! As I’m 20:28 i’ve seen this ort of nonsense before what does disturb me though is the propaganda that youngsters go through at school my lads 19 and he won’t even listen to skeptical arguments as if he’s been indoctrinated, I guess like socialism he’ll grow out of it once he enters the “real world” but what of those not as fortunate as him? Suppose they end up reading the Guardian! Sorry to go on so long (and haven’t had a beer yet!) just really enjoy it here i also think its great the realists (RR, Mack,Yasoxx etc) keep up the good fight over at the dogs breakfast of a blog at the DT and still pop in here for a chat and a couple of pints. Getting really hot here in Shanghai must be global warming…. oh wait no it’s summertime!!!

  128. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Hi Amerloque,

    That’s a very interesting scenario you’ve come up with :>o

    I’m picturing that lonely cowboy from Buffalocrap, beads of sweat on his upper lip, hands all clammy as he taps a one-handed staccato on his keyboard in time with his rapid breathing, to find “solace” in his lonely hour of need……….

    …..and ends up on a DT blog! hahahahaha

    Oooooooo, I’m a mean and callous swan LOL

    Interestingly, if such a hypothetical “journalist” cynically created such a “hypothetical” headline for the sole purpose of getting his hit-rate/advertising-clicks up, while giving the story of the century for British taxpayers the flick, that would tell me a whole lot more about the “journalist” than it does about the cowboy, and frankly, I’d have more time for the lonely cowboy (Brokeback Mountain notwithstanding) LOL


  129. Edward. says:

    Blackswan Tasmania says:
    July 10, 2010 at 6:18 pm

    Excellent link Blackswan,

    Thank you! Everybody who knows their cricket knows the name of Sam Loxton, it immediately rang a bell with me (not as a politician I hasten to add!), my father watched them (the Invincibles) at Headingley and followed the tour avidly and I got it ball by ball!! (Albeit a little later on).

    Ah the Don! Now there is a name to conjure with and he had a bloody good team that year too and England were no slouches either.

    Loxton is scathing of Aus politicians and he is correct, I guess if I was lucky enough to talk to him we would get on well (cricket aside – grin!).
    As to the seriousness of the link, brother I feel your angst and frustration, together we will overcome these bastards, we must!

    @Dave,Edinburgh says:
    July 10, 2010 at 1:38 am

    Wow, great stuff, it ain’t about the science, it never was Dave and thank you for the essay and links, I’ve read it and will read it again.
    The IPCC make big play of the weasel word ‘consensus’ but it is significant of nothing, there is no direct proof (and there never will be) of CAGW.
    Meanwhile the politicians and media continue to blind the public with obscene, outright lies and BS dogmas, it is sad but then many people (not through their own fault usually) are now ’empty vessels’ their heads ripe for filling with quasi religious and portentous images of imminent cataclysm, through the ages it was ever thus but now with the collapse of the education system and most of our traditional values trampled in the mud -(Marxist teachers, PC, filling children’s heads with AGW BS) the propensity for man to believe in anything is even more likely, alas -witness the mesmeric power of something as vapid as The X factor Heaven Help us!

    “Die AGW Religion … ist das Opium des Volkes”
    Karl Marx (with no apology to the twat!).

    And read this it will make you gag:

    We’re all going to hell in a hand cart, there is no need to make it up because it is happening.


  130. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    theendisnighnot says:
    July 10, 2010 at 8:10 pm

    “they aint got any money the only country that has China won’t be spending much of it any time soon on this load of old tosh!”

    Hello einn,
    The following is a post of mine from the previous thread in case you missed it……

    /It seems China is shutting down or hamstringing a lot of production because……
    “We’d rather sacrifice GDP to ensure we achieve the energy saving and emissions reduction target,”

    But hey, it’s OK because they can all start up again in 2011.
    Is that how Carbon Trading works? Cut emissions this year and we’ll make a killing on Credits, crank ‘em up again next year to play the cycle all over again.
    Wonder if they’ll keep stockpiling iron ore and bauxite during their downturn and is there such a thing as a “surplus to needs” clause in their Australian mining contracts. Will this on-again/off-again policy affect Oz mining?
    Described as a “nationwide destocking frenzy”, we can only wonder./

    My take on it is that they’ll play the “game” to their own advantage and don’t forget they have given sanctuary to one Maurice Strong, the prime architect of the AGW Fraud, safely ensconced behind the walls of his luxury compound, more than happy to advise his generous hosts on how the system reeeeally works.

    After all, it’s his “baby” and the wicked “ungrateful” West sent him packing just for milking the UN of a few million humanitarian dollars, so he’ll be glad to see China take-’em-down. Nice chap old Mo Strong.

  131. NoIdea says:

    I found this very nice blog by orkneylad at
    I have decided to post my reply first on Rastechs at,92.0.html
    And secondly at Ozboys
    But I feel this is essential information for everyone.

    My reply to OL at the Telegraph.
    Many thanks for showing us the IPCC graph from 1990 and the fudge factor (error bars) in the graph used in 2001. I understand that it is probably my bias that leads me to prefer the 1990 graph but it seems to match our (Humanity) history much better. Taking the fact that for as long as we can tell from examining ice cores (Vostok) Temperature has caused CO2 levels to rise after about 800 years. If we examine the historically accurate graph from 1990 and go back exactly 800 years from the year 2000 we arrive at 1200 the peak point of the medieval optimum with 2 centuries of warming to get there. This would lead me to believe that we should see an increase in CO2 levels in the 2 centuries leading up to the year 2000 and as I believe, so it appears to have happened. The medieval optimum does not look to have lasted long, from about 1190 to about 1220 only thirty years and then temperatures drop (with the theory of CO2 levels having an 800 year lag i.e. by 2020 we will start to see CO2 levels drop) over a couple of centuries to the 1400 to 1500 minimum. So this explains why there is such a rush to smash unneeded legislation in place to curb CO2, so that when the levels start dropping naturally in 2020 they will holler and crow only 50 billion a year and we did it! What wondrous melons we are! What wonderful specimens of humanity are we, the masters of the universe and masters of the climate? Our wonderful works now done, let us scarper to the tax havens.
    Or am I just a touch too cynical?

  132. Edward. says:

    Far be it of me to be the harbinger of ill omens, this is the latest from WUWT:

    Dear jumping jack flash, is there any room at the inn?


  133. manonthemoor says:

    Well posted Ed

    As Mack said on DT stock up on everything or in my case go with the flow, what I do not have they cannot pinch.

    If my numbers come up there is no fighting it.

    We live in very interesting times

  134. Dave,Edinburgh says:

    @ Edward: July 10, 2010 at 9:13 pm .

    Thank you for the link to Climate Lessons, make me Gag? You bet it does.

    (Some of the following observations taken from “Turning children into Orwellian eco-spies” Frank Furedi via Spiked, and “Shameful Exploitation of UK Children in Climate Propaganda” Karl J. Hansen,

    Children should be tought valuable life lessons such as when to come in out of the rain, why the early bird catches the worm and why life isnt always fair.

    They should be tought to live by simple sound financial policies (don’t spend more than you earn) and reliable parenting strategies ( adults , not children, are in charge ).

    It is unbelievable, that so called “enlightened” parents allow their children to be brainwashed by Neuro-linguistic programming through the education system and government propaganda, turning children into Mini Eco-Police. Quote from a recent DT article, “The Strange children, from Horsham, in Sussex, are very good at policing their parents”.

    The British government is using NLP (brainwashing) directed at children in order to persuade their parents to accept the hypothetical belief that we dangerously influence the global climate through CO2 and that we can do something about it by saving energy. They intend to persuade children to label their parents as irresponsible and bad, if they don’t adhere to the will of the UK government.

    This is nothing short of Child Abuse.

    It is not the first time in resent history, we have seen governments using children as a means to achieve their political goals.The ruling party in Germany used children, “Hitlerjugend”, to change the minds of their parents. Like today in the UK, they misused the unconditional love of the parents to force an agenda.

    By misusing children in this way, you reverse the normal system in which the parents provide guiding examples, moral support and wisdom for the children, and where the parents view is guided by independent critical diagnosis of the society they live in. In this UK Hitlerjugend style, the guiding role is taken away from the parents and transferred to the government and it’s propaganda departments.

    Neuro-Linguistic Programming is the most powerful propaganda method imaginable, It is inhumane for several reasons. Unless you, as a parent, are extremely well informed, you have no way of promoting your own interest to the child and you will find it difficult to protect your child from the massive, intrusive MSM (mainstream media), TV and Internet.

    This one-sided immoral propaganda through children was in principle banned by the High Court in the UK.
    The judge ruled that it is illegal to provide disputed one-sided information without also providing adequate information about the other side of the debate.

    There is a long and sordid tradition of trying to socialise children by scaring them. The aim of such socialisation-through-fear is twofold: first, to get children to conform to the scaremongers’ values, secondly, to use children to influence their parents’ behaviour.

    In schools, before Man-Made Climate Change was fabricated, religion was central to the teaching of virtually every subject. Students were left in no doubt where the church stood on the smallest details of every topic they were learning about. Today, environmental concerns have replaced religion in the curriculum, to the point where they dominate subjects like geography, science, Personal Health and Social Education and intrude into history and literature too. The growing significance of environmental issues in the school curriculum is directly proportionate to society’s broader illiteracy and loss of purpose. Today, religious studies appear as a sub-branch of the dogma of environmental alarmism.

    In previous times, it was only totalitarian societies that mobilised children to police their parents’ behaviour. It was Orwellian, Big Brother-style states that tried to harness youngsters’ simplistic views of good and evil to reshape the outlook of adults. But who needs Big Brother when former prime minister Tony Blair, can openly assert that “on climate change, it is parents who should listen to their children”. It appears that preying on children’s fears and exploiting their anxiety is now considered to be a form of enlightened education. Yet the future of our children demands that we provide them with existential and moral security. Instead of feeding them on a steady diet of scaremongering, we need to inspire them about our potential to improve the future of our world.

    Politicians and governments have embraced environmental education as a potentially effective instrument for influencing and managing the behaviour of the public. Politicians argue that environmental values “can act as vivid teaching aids in science lessons, civic lessons, geography lessons”, and in absorbing these lessons “children will then begin to educate their parents”.

    The overall scope of this political agenda is truly horrifying. In the space of under a decade, the entire educational system in the UK has been overhauled and poisoned with mandatory re-education about the perils of man-made global warming, despite the fact that the legitimacy of the subject is being discredited on a daily basis and with evidence that the Earth has now entered the cooling phase of a natural ~60year oscillation.

    TV commercials such as Act on CO2 “Bedtime Stories” and Gore’s cartoon being shown in our schools are playing a key role in warping the minds of both children and adults alike to passively accept the drumbeat of climate propaganda while all the real environmental threats go completely ignored.

    What must rate as the SICKEST environmental video I have ever seen has the title “Polar Bear”, children who love polar bears may stumble on to this while searching the web. Just watch this clip and decide, would you be happy if your child watched this disgusting video clip, even by accident?

    Now that the brainwashing program is firmly embedded in education and society, the next phase has begun, the exploitation of children as a tool of behaviouristic enforcement, acting as the eyes and ears of Big Brother, chomping at the bit with zealous indignation to perform their “duty” of “re-educating” their own parents and other adults, threatening to inform on them if they do not properly comply with the dictates of green totalitarianism.

    The “worries of global warming” only exist in the mindset of those who wish to profit from carbon trading and the green bandwagon, or who hold dreams of a “Utopia”, a perfect vision of a Republic wherein the beauties of society reign, a bit like “Oceania” in Orwell’s 1984.

    When John Beddington CMG FRS, the Chief Scientific Adviser to the UK Government, who’s only link to “Climate Science” is Professor of Applied Population Biology, states that Heathrow could become a “giant reservoir”, because of “Man-Made” Climate Change, one wonders if he needs to increase his medication:

    and as the UK government’s “Office of Climate Change” is headed by the ECONOMIST Nicholas Stern, who touts equal or even worse drivel, it is easy to understand the source of the incompetence of Cameron, Clegg, Chris Huhne et al.
    Simply, there is NOT ONE competent “Climate Scientist” currently consulted to give unbiased evidence to those who WANT to believe in Man-Made Warming, not in the interest of society, but to enhance their political careers and for their own financial gains.

    Gag? pass me the bucket.


  135. manonthemoor says:

    July 11, 2010 at 1:11 am

    Fine post Dave much better than I could have described the education shambles

    Can I suggest you post this at Rastechs as a discussion topic

  136. Walt O'Brien says:

    Blackswan Tasmania says:
    July 10, 2010 at 9:23 pm

    Hello, Blackswan. You had asked the question online before concerning how carbon trading works respecting China’s temporary shutdown of sectors of its mineral processing and smelting operations. I had put together Trane’s emissions trading department in East Syracuse and also worked on trades for various projects involving pre-sells to be used to finance the construction budget, so maybe the following is of use to you.

    I do not think, IMHO, they can or want to do a structured and complex procedure for carbon trading which is negotiable in nature in this cirumstance, as what appears to be going on is temporary shutdowns to deal with non-carbon and genuinely toxic emissions. The timeline for a carbon trade is (typically) 10-12 years, or however long it takes operation of the new emissions reduction equipment which the pre-sold or collateralized carbon credits paid for to pay off the costs of emissions reduction equipment. Even if it is a 2-year programme, which is exceedingly rare, usually the procedure is revenue-neutral: the total cost and yield of the carbon trade equals exactly the cost of mitigation, including broker fees and consulting assistance for paperwork shufflers :>).

    This is with an honest trade. The “credits” associated with shutting down Redcar, I allege, is but one of 50,000 “cooked” trades designed by civilian non-engineering political infrastructures like the idiotic carbon tax schemes which are either medieval tokens of state favour in exchange for procuring for the right politician their needed supply of Afghan heroin at no cost or a bludgeon designed by yet another Communist Porpoise leftard bureacrat to shake down a legitimate enterprise engaged in living-wage paying industrial activity which otherwise would chug along normally without “benefit” of state manipulation.

    There is, IMHO, no carbon trade associated with the slowdown in Chinese production. They need breathing room to avoid getting swamped with genuine toxins, and they do not care about revenues from carbon trades, as they really do not yield that much money, and will not even 20 years out even going by the most optimistic projections of the greentards. You have to understand, the numbers routinely kicked about by the power generation industry are huge compared to governmental boondoggles and to a bureaucratic jobsworth dogturd, they become viciously jealous and drool at the sight of all that honest earning of money made without butkissing but rather through competent conduct of a highly technical activity; in practice, the yield of a compliance regime in a retrofit does not exceed 7-8% of first costs for a power plant, it’s normally 2% or so, and maybe 15% at the outside for a newbuild. Again, the carbon trade is revenue neutral. Legally the most a broker can make is 3 points.

    It is the dumbtard imposition of carbon taxes which so far have been slapped down by even the Kablamma non-ministration that are the threat to right reason and business conduct on a profitable basis. To think otherwise is but yielding to yet another conspiracy theory. If you will not very few discourses on carbon trading I have on blog posts and in the MSM have ever involved any NASD-licenced members certified by and from the Environmental Markets Association. Nor have I ever seen a power plant constructor firm interviewed in the MSM, nor a utility president, on the subject. The only time in 10 years I have seen an online article involving a utility professional was a DT interview with the president of Dax, and that was only in reference to the Greentard attempted arson at a British plant which was in the process of switching over to coal plus biomass along the line of what you can pull down at my Website.

    Here is the Environmental Markets Association. I have posted this no less than 25 to 40 times over eight years at the DT every time someone asked what a carbon trade is.


  137. manonthemoor says:

    Hi Walt

    Walt name looks just like Walt again


  138. Walt O'Brien says:

    As an addendum to my earlier posting, I don’t know how MV, Catweazle or other genuine engineering professionals or technicians feel, but if there isn’t P. Eng. after one’s name or they don’t work directly with real projects for real power plants on a paid basis, to me, they need to STFU on this issue of anything related to the actual technology. For an engineer to be lectured on power generation technology by a non-engineer, which I see and hear often, is like a man lecturing a woman on how to have a baby and on the pains of childbirth, except it is ruder. How dare anyone presume to tell my industry how to conduct their business when they may not even have a ruler or tape measure or even a hand tool in their house.

    A doctor would slap those same people’s faces if they were treated as abusively as engineers are. I work for engineers, and I have seen it many, many times in practice, most recently with the now-dead Syracuse project. It’s why engineers don’t post to blogs, they get shouted down by arseholes who think it is little elves under their car hood making the thing work and how come the engineers won’t adopt their precious pixie dust solution which has never been tried? In this instance, Syracuse greentards killed 130 million bucks of emission compliant power generation through sheer spite, corruption, arrogance and greed. I hope they starve screaming in a ditch in the dead of winter.

    The upside is there are not replacement generations of engineers and technicians for the USA and the UK, not even for the renewables POS’s. I feel very good about this. My sympathies go out to those who are not fools and who are decent folk, but there are not enough decent folk nor if there are, they are doing nothing, so they are going to reap what they have sown.

  139. Walt O'Brien says:

    manonthemoor says:
    July 11, 2010 at 1:53 am

    I could not bear the alternative any longer.

  140. Walt O'Brien says:

    Amerloque says:
    July 10, 2010 at 8:01 pm

    Hm. Does she need a dancing bear, or a bear hug, or even a bear rug?

  141. Walt O'Brien says:

    Amerloque says:
    July 10, 2010 at 7:11 pm

    Good shot, Amerloque.

    I’ve no idea who that is. A manga or anime artist perhaps?

  142. manonthemoor says:

    Walt your posts are always an education to read and easy to recognise

    Do not let ‘them’ grind you down

    I left a comment earlier about videos

    But will be away for a couple of hours now (Visitors)


  143. Walt O'Brien says:

    Blackswan Tasmania says:
    July 10, 2010 at 6:30 pm

    Oh, no! No doubt for a greentard blog. Life’s too cruel.

    Crownarmourer, I think what happened is Raoul had the gun to his head, so some comedian copper grins and decides he wants to get home before lunch as a hot meal is waiting, so he tasers dumbtard, causing an involuntary contraction of his index finger LOL! Police and taxpayers one, arseholes nil. That cop should have sold tickets first, and had a marching band do a drumroll and cymbal crash.

  144. Walt O'Brien says:

    manonthemoor says:
    July 11, 2010 at 2:05 am

    Thanks, MOTM. It’s just too hot here, though the A/C finally is an immense help normally you don’t need it here, but my arms are too short to box with G_d, so I thought I would take on the readership.

    Now if I could only see without my spectacles I might hit something LOL!

  145. Walt O'Brien says:

    crownarmourer says:
    July 10, 2010 at 6:17 pm

    Gogglebear was it Mary Poppins?

    The Horror Chamber of Dr. X, with Richard Johnson, Kit Lee, Peter Cushing, and a lot of notable Old Vic types out for a paying lark. I believe the story was redone by the CryptKeeper ,too: many of the old Hammer film themes were re-done by “Tales from the Crypt.”

  146. Amanda says:

    GoggleBear sez: Margarooties are an essential food group, I’m told, in Florida, especially if you are moving to Jimmy Buffetville.

    Yes, sir!

  147. Edward. says:

    Dave,Edinburgh says:
    July 11, 2010 at 1:11 am

    Your insight is revealing and unerringly directed Dave, pester power is used by advertisers, they cynically target youngsters with adverts betwixt children’s morning programmes, in Denmark they have banned them.
    You allude the Hitler Youth, I think we have an example much closer historically borrowed from the eastern bloc, which ideologically is closer to the hearts of the Unionised teaching profession, the dogmas of NLP mirror almost exactly the aims and methods employed by AGITPROP in the DDR, Merkel was a member of FDJ (Free German Youth), Agitation and Propaganda is what NLP is, the Socialists have the whip hand in the brainwashing (I nearly said inculcation but brainwashing is nearer the truth) of today’s British youth.

    Bliar’s throwaway comment you quoted is starkly illuminating: “on climate change, it is parents who should listen to their children”. This is precisely the affect and effect that they seek.

    Who are ‘they’, I find it hard not to believe that the hand of the EU politburo is behind this brainwashing project, they have long wished to dilute the very strong British streak of individualism and idiosyncratic character of our nation.

    AGW is emotive, a frightening prospect for young minds, it makes great play on the heart strings and in the minds of extremely vulnerable brains, it is easy (it is a concept not empirical) and is absolutely and fundamentally wrong. Using powerful images ie; of polar bears on minuscule ice floes (and how many times have we seen them?) provides children with unforgettable angst, and is a seed planted.

    When the doubt is sown, ‘they’ can play on this and introduce any number of mendacity’s and falsehoods, man is basically evil, cannot be trusted and he is destroying the beautiful planet, appalling to little humans.

    However it suits the faceless EU autocracy completely, the Nomenklatura can be well pleased with their work in Britain. Part of this plan is the dumbing down of qualifications, knowledge and analytical thinking, this coupled with indoctrination of Marxist Utopian ideals is the perfect solution, a new EU Jugend is born, parents beware.

    The foundations of all that we hold dear are being systematically worn away, this is what the EU politburo are about, divide and conquer, through agitprop not blitzkrieg is their preferred modus operandi.


  148. Edward. says:


    A little honesty is refreshing:
    Better late than never, I suppose.


  149. Amanda says:


    Just wanted to say thanks for your article on the PDO. I hadn’t heard of it, just the general idea about oceans trapping heat and releasing it slowly over long timespans.
    Appreciate it. Cheers.

  150. manonthemoor says:

    July 11, 2010 at 5:25 am

    Congrats an excellent complement to the Dave piece

    Same applies should be installed at Rastech’s for comment etc


  151. GoggleBear says:

    Here’s Goofrey Fat in action again. Sigh.

    My point is, as much as we do and as hard as we work at this, there actually needs to be these lawsuits that are forthcoming to kick into gear before we get some closure on this new medievalism in high-tech drag. AGW is just the new eugenics hunting down anyone with money who has been fool enough to work to get it for a shakedown based on risible premises and which shakedown is to be conducted by backseat driver pigsweats, just as was the Shoa. Himmler saw the inside of a death camp exactly once, and he turned green and threw up, after which he fully implemented the Wannsee Agreement as per the design recommendations of the Grand Mufti of Yerushalayim, Yassir Arafat’s uncle.

    It would also be interesting to see the full extent of Arab oil interests in all this carbon AGW fraud nonsense. The Grand Mufti under the Mandate not only was coordinator of Middle East German intelligence for the Abwehr but also the bagman for funds provided by the Arabs of the Middle East as well as guardian angel for Al-Bani, the Marxist Islamist revolutionary group of whom a fellow named Anwar Sadat and another fellow named Abdel Gamal Nasser were members. The worst lie of the present Western press is that Al- Queda and other Islamists (Iran, for example) are not presented as they themselves advertise themselves, as Marxist Leninists. These are the same buggers who are dictating Western energy policy on a de facto basis. Apparently, paying one’s bills and keeping one’s finances stable is an international Jewish conspiracy which will not be tolerated by the Arab League LOL! (Well, look at the country of Too Many Doobies, if you don’t believe me. Going broke and staying there must be the product of Islamic religious injunctions presenting that as the optimum state of economic affairs).

    Exactly on topic, Just as the Huns took tonnes of capital from the Arab world during WW II, the AGW mob also receives tonnes of swag from them as well, and the AGW crowd are also Marxist Leninist. I’m wondering to what extent it is possible to audit the funding sources for this risible and anti-Western Marxist fraud. I don’t really care so much about the scientific fraud. I care about the actual treason dimension, not only to the UK through undermining its industrial infrastructure, I want to know if the swine are on the payroll of the very people our generation’s children are fighting as troops in HM and US Forces.

    Otherwise put, what grants does Lord Oxburgh and his crones have active from the Middle East that directly pertain to this issue, and can being in possession of these grants and emoluments constitute political conflict of interest, just as being a British citizen and a member of the German NSDAP constituted treason?

    We need a Liberty Gibbet for these fifth columnists.

  152. GoggleBear says:

    Why isn’t it treason to destroy the cost benefit of the operation of an entire national power generation grid over unproven Hairy Pothead unreproducible poorly modeled anti-science which self-describes itself as “post-normal?” If I derail a locomotive, freight or passenger, in the USA because I say it is causing global warming, it is a automatic death penalty on a Federal level (Clinton implemented that, BTW. A polite smile then a bullet at the base of the neck, is how these true socialists would do it, I expect, had they their way, perhaps wearing a Stalin smock over their Rocky Horror kit). Fair’s fair. Prove the science of AGW beyond the shadow of a doubt, or death by injection for treason, arson and industrial sabotage.

  153. GoggleBear says:

    Silly me. I forgot to add: death to Communists.

  154. GoggleBear says:

    Should be an automatic…, not a automatic. Digitarditis strikes again. Yaaargh!

    In ten years, at this rate, people will be communicating in grunts or hitting the keyboards with their elbows to text or Arsebook each other.

  155. Dave,Edinburgh says:

    Being “new” here, I am not familiar with “Rastech’s” but please feel free to copy & paste as required,
    Cheers, Dave.

  156. mlpinaus says:

    “GoggleBear says:
    July 10, 2010 at 5:39 pm

    Do you know what an IBM 1401 B3 or C6 were?”

    Bit too early for mlp. Spent time writing FORTRAN for a CDC6400 though, in the late 60’s. I am an electrical engineer, with a BsC in Physics added on. Did the CSIRO thing in 1980-4, then went off with 4 others to found Austek Microsystems in 1984. What a flop. One of these founders with me at that time was a system designer on the VAX 11/780 at DEC , one other an hardware engineer with Control Data…


  157. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Morning all,

    I’m reading the DT and accounts of your “heatwave” – 20C overnight in London, Wow, that’s hot….

    …and 40C in NYC, no wonder you’re complaining Walt.

    Could one of our Pommy mates please explain the following….

    “Despite the cooler temperatures in the North, millions of householders in Cumbria, Greater Manchester, Lancashire and Merseyside have been subjected to their first hosepipe pan for 14 years.”

    What is a “hosepipe pan”? Is that a typo meaning you can’t water your garden or wash your car with a hose?

  158. crownarmourer says:

    Blackswan Cumbria is very very wet and is known for it’s lakes full of water so yes a hosepipe ban makes perfect sense. Yet another move to drive up prices and avoid fixing the delivery infrastructure, a lot of water companies are owned by large multi national corporations and they don’t give a damn whether you have clean water or not as long as they make money. You can only go 3 to 7 days without water. See a movie called water wars.

  159. Dave,Edinburgh says:


    Thank you for the link, much appreciated,


  160. crownarmourer says:

    Dave your welcome register and go to the chats sometimes it’s busy sometimes not, at the moment very quiet. The usual sensible rules apply self moderate and play nice with others.

  161. Amerloque says:

    Hi Walt !
    On July 11, 2010 at 2:05 am

    // I’ve no idea who that is. A manga or anime artist perhaps?//

    Emiko Yemani is a character in “Godzilla” (1954) the first daikaijū film to make it big time in the USA. (grin)

    She was the “daughter” of the “paleontologist” Professor Kyohei Yemani.


    Amerloque 20100712 08h40 Paris time (CET)

  162. Amerloque says:

    Hello Edward !
    On July 11, 2010 at 5:25 am

    /// Who are ‘they’, I find it hard not to believe that the hand of the EU politburo is behind this brainwashing project, they have long wished to dilute the very strong British streak of individualism and idiosyncratic character of our nation. ///

    You might easily replace the qualifier “British” with the word “French”: the EU politburo is functioning here, too. The French character of France is being destroyed … while kids are being programmed to fink on their parents, as in the UK.

    Over the past forty years here in France as a foreign resident, Amerloque has witnessed the destruction of French society thanks to the vainglorious European Union, set up and managed by ignorant, inexperienced bureaucrats who have little concept of the needs of the people (and who know very, very little of real Federalism).

    The euro is an attempt to foist political union of the member states onto brainwashed populations held in thrall by their access to a ‘consumer society’ and selected leftist dogma. There are certainly more important issues: for example, massive and constant immigration of populations which can not or will not integrate into French society while adopting its uses and customs.

    The sooner the EUSSR explodes, the better it will be for everyone, i.e., the peoples of Europe (and not their self-serving rulers, beholden to World Governance).

    By the way, the UK is smart not to have adopted the euro, since it retains its sovereignty with the pound sterling.

    There will be ups and downs, sure, but the UK will survive as an independent entity as long as it has the pound !

    One cannot put too high a price on liberty.


    Amerloque 20100712 08h55 Paris time (CET)

  163. Edward. says:


    Conrad Black is innocent, no shit.

    “Who are the real “bank robbers” here, in Jeffrey Cramer’s phrase? A malign combination of regulators, prosecutors and “corporate governance” fetishists with no equity in the company hijacked Black’s life’s work and reduced it to a charred ruin in half a decade. Whatever the ills of the market with its robber barons and buccaneering capitalists, the government “cure” is worse.”

    Or as we say in Britain, “he was fitted up, good and proper.”
    A personal tragedy for Black, who’ll never have redress now, I sensed it was a ‘crock’ immediately……..but then what do I know?


  164. Amerloque says:

    “To destroy a people you must first sever their roots.”

    Alexander Solzhenitsyn

    Amerloque 20100712 09h00 Paris time (CET)

  165. GoggleBear says:

    mlpinaus says:
    July 11, 2010 at 11:37 am

    Sounds like good fun and a life well spent indeed. My familiarity with the aforementioned caveman computers were that they were used to designating which ordnance went onto which aircraft during a Southeast Asian real estate renovation and urban renewal project called Operation Linebacker II. As USMC aviation were doing the Xmas tree flare drops over the targets (just like in the raids on Schweinfurt and Berlin, etc., etc. by Harris’s Wellies and Lancs, where they used Mosquitoes and I think Spitfire IX’s for visual target designation ) as well as ECM and fighter escort and engaging targets of opportunity hopefully before those targets engaged them (if you know who Major Tong was, and not in the David Bowie song either), they were usually loaded up with all sorts of nifty new stuff to be tried out, the ECM Intruders in particular dropping the first laser-guided “smart” bombs. The joke at the time was the “dumb” bombs were reserved for NVA officers’ quarters. I did the foodling and cursing with the programmes for this for my Xmas and Hannukah then. Autocoder was the language then. What was interesting was the Yom Kippur War was going on at the same time, so the better Jewish Marine “scooter” (Phantom II F4D) pilots would be issued leave papers at the flight side and grab a Euro MAC hop and thence to Israel to try their luck with the Russian pilots flying the Arab MiG’s.

  166. GoggleBear says:

    to designating should be for designating :>p

  167. GoggleBear says:

    Just doing the rounds on my IP address lookup log, as long as we are on the subject of war, which this is. I need to find out who Project 5 Research is and a fellow there named Michael Callender, another firm called Cyveillance (doesn’t sound good, does it? Can’t be all that bright if they come up on MY radar in clear LOL!), another called Fraudwatch International Pty Ltd out of Melbourne, and I am sure someone really nice lives somewhere near South Terrace between Heswick Terminal and Rose Park, as well as in Asheville. My most interesting peeker is at IP address in the area code of 60604 near Grant Park off the Loop in Chicago, and I hope I got a Federal IT guy fired through posting this LOL! PS, I promise I will stop calling you silly names, Hussein, if you take a look at balancing the budget AND twist someone’s tail to re-open Henrici’s somewhere in Chi-Town. Life has no meaning without that restaurant. You can put it on the Recovery Act tab LOL!

  168. Amerloque says:

    Hi GoggleBear
    on July 11, 2010 at 5:07 pm

    Hi mlpinaus on
    July 11, 2010 at 11:37 am

    You’re bringing back memories. (grin)

    Amerloque’s initial involvement with computing was in 1965 at a _big_ public university across the bay from San Francisco. (grin)

    One of the required courses was “Computer Programming”.

    The unwashed students would write their Fortran programs in black (only) on paper, then hand them in.

    It would be passed along through the Data Procesing Labyrinth to an “operator” who would “punch cards” as indicated by the program.

    After two weeks, cards and program were returned to the student, who would then check whether the holes in the cards accurately reflected his/her program.

    After a week of “verification”, the students would “run” the program. To do this one would trundle on down to the air-conditioned “computer block” where sneering whitecoated High Priests of Data Processing would deign to accept the miserable student’s pack of cards. (If the Sneering Priest didn’t like your appearance, he would let drop the deck to the floor, thus forcing a two- or three- delay for reshuffling …).

    The student would then return after the week (!) it took to “schedule” and “run” the program on the “IBM”, pick up the results, and hand them in to the Teaching Assistant.

    All this was for a rudimentary “Hello World” + “square root of an assigned integer” dealie.

    The whole rigamarole was then repeated with “Cobol” !

    As you might imagine, with required courses like this, Amerloque switched his original major (astronomy) to something other. (wide grin)

    The younger generation has no idea what it missed ! (wider grin)


    Amerloque 20100712 09h00 Paris time (CET)

  169. mlpinaus says:

    Cyveillance is a spider that, amongst others, monitors chat sites. Fraudwatch seems to be outside, playing with the Nigerians… ? Do they (Nigerian millionaires) still print their stuff in green ink on needle printers? The “millionaire needing funds people” are still alive and well. My wife told me that a patient of hers had sent around A$ 8000 to one such millionaire recently. Takes all kinds.

    M arcus


  170. GoggleBear says:

    This just in from this month’s issue of “Power” Magazine in the States, the flagship nuts and bolts journal for the American power generation industry. The opening plenary session of Electric Power 2010, the annual powwow of all the prezzes and execs for the Yank utilities put forth how the game is going:

    1. If the cap and trade derivatives end of things attached to the American Power Act goes through, the average Yank 500 MWe and up plant will have to have on standby 250 to 500 million in cash to cover margin calls, which they do have already but as their mandated fuel and ops cash reserve. This is how Kablamma plans to ransack the utility industry at arms’ length so he doesn’t take the rap yet gets a projected budget balance mirage thereby. Clever Pres, that. Who cares if this destroys our entire electric power generation infrastructure? Watch each state’s PUC void the cash reserve requirement for fuel and ops support is the American Power Act goes through.

    2. Problems with power prices, hehe, hehe, just the right kind of problems. For the PJM grid (just south of me) prices were at $27/MWhr, half of what is needed to cost justify and sustain renewables but no sweat for coal and hydro to cover but a budget squeezer for natural gas. Nukes aren’t affected as they are strictly baseload and, um, let’s say they have other forms of finance as they are what we call dual-use items. Wind, believe it or not, can survive as an economically “viable” option if the price of electricity wholesale goes down to NEGATIVE 30 dollars per megawatt/hour, owing to the subsidies and tax credits, etc., etc. (and five skillion new gas turbine generator backup units. Buy GE and Pratt & Whitney and Rolls Royce stock NOW LOL!).

    3. If, instead of cap and trade, the EPA regulates carbons, the utes and the consumer get one fourth of the benefits at four times the cost, not including the cost of carbon sequestration, compared to cap and trade.

    4. Most US utilities, owing to the stress of the Obama carbon initiative, can barely make an investment grade rating sufficient to finance their new (plant construction) capital expenditures (capex).

    So…the Federal budget is to be balanced on the backs of the electric utilities and the energy exploration and development industry. What a surprise. What, no ski mask?

    Don’t worry about it, Jake, it’s only Chinatown.

    Nice piece in this issue on the Dax 4.8 gigawatt coal/biomass plant. Also, the nuts have been cracked on preventatively zapping both coal dust explosions for good at a decent price (finally) and mercury emissions from coal cost-effectively.

  171. GoggleBear says:

    is the American Power Act goes through should be “AS the American Power Act goes through.”

    Amerloque, you have to admit, carrying those trays around were good exercise. For me, the bennie and curse were working in airconditioning in 100+ F, 100 % humidity weather. Nice and cool, and terrible colds, as well. Flight tarmac gets insanely hot; everyone’s green utilities had huge salt rings on them all the time.

    Thanks for the headsup on the Cyveillance folks. Ozboy, you should get a suite of CPanel software from the ISP for this blog so you can track these dudes and dudesses.

    Also, if you go to, any of those organizations and publications will be happy to work out a pay-per-click deal for this blog with you. They are onside with us and vice versa, if you like your vices versa. That would cover the expense of this blog not exactly handsomely for you, but 3,000 posts times 5 pence times five ads equals what? Bada bing bada boom. More importantly, it would steer electric utility people and oil people and natural gas people and other players here so we can get some of that there clout mojo into the mix.

  172. GoggleBear says:

    Nigerian fraudsters have nailed at least one American per US city since this stuff started in the mid-90’s, mlpinaus. You would think there would be a diplomatic option open but no dice.

  173. GoggleBear says:

    Blackswan Tasmania says:
    July 11, 2010 at 11:43 am

    It was insanely hot from the 1st through yesterday for us. I tried on fasting a bit for a few days (Sunday through Wednesday) , as long as the heat was up (it’s easy to do a proper fast in ultra hot weather, it’s when it’s cold that fasting beats you senseless as your body is trying to make heat when there is no fat or protein to burn LOL!). What you sweat out is amazing when you do the water-only bit. I’ve got more done on the painting of renderings of scrims and backgrounds for the “epic” script presentation, and when they are done, I will post them. Better by far than “Hope and Fear” and “The Spirit of 1968.”

    If you do a lot of keyboard work, it is a good idea to check your carotid arteries when you get your next checkup, both sides of your neck. The doc puts a stethoscope there and listens for wooshing sounds with your pulse which indicates arterial contraction. That’s what dropped the keyboard dude from Lynyrd Skynyrd I think, and a 46-year-old computer coder pal of mine in 2009. If you get a pain in the neck either side that won’t go away, don’t mess with it, see the doc.

  174. mlpinaus says:

    “Amerloque says:
    July 11, 2010 ”
    Adelaide University was a little more civilized. My honours year was summed up by a foot long deck of punched cards, modelling surface aucoustic wave filters. That I dropped one fine day. Whole process was made bearable by the lust I had for one of the female computer operators at the time. Computer simulation has been good to me, but this is for electrical systems. Simple, mostly first order differential equations. Not the complex, chaotic reality of the weather. And the resulting integrated circuit got to be made and tested. These clowns think that the computer produces the result, not a prediction of that. Its now Sunday night. Off to dinner with the family.


  175. GoggleBear says:

    If a certain Prez were serious about balancing the Budget in a single stroke, he would pull an India and eliminate the derivatives markets altogether as applies to energy, an dinstead mandate that all energy procurement wholesale be conducted on a prompt call, same as cash, basis. That way, you could immediately halve fuel and electric prices, which would allow for a Prez excise tax to be thereby inserted, which both stabilize prices at a higher level than otherwise plus provide the revenue to pay the effing bills.

    PLEASE. Pay the bills, man. Our kids deserve better, even if we don’t have any LOL!

    PS: Carbon sequestration will never work for the simple reason it makes something called calcium carbide, too, when carbonic acid reacts with limestone. You’ll end up with the cities over these carbon sequestrations going up like Sodom and Gomorrah, which, while oddly fitting, hardly does for qualifying as an uplifting experience.

  176. Ozboy says:

    Evening/morning all,

    Ozboy is busy busy busy. Will touch base again in 12 hours.

    @mlpinaus, we haven’t met… welcome to LibertyGibbert, drop by anytime.

    @Amerloque on July 11, 2010 at 5:36 pm: I only caught the tail end of punch cards and Fortran IV (1980 or so) But the memory is very evil 😥

    Remember: hope is our greatest weapon. The good guys will win in the end.

  177. Edward. says:


    On topic!
    Scandalous piece of crap here from National Snow and Ice Data Centre:

    With a robust response here from TAV:

    Jeff demolishes the ‘propaganda’ and I’ll leave it to discerning readers to make up their own minds.


  178. Amerloque says:

    As a matter of interest …

    What summer? Record cold at LAX as July gloom continues

    July 10, 2010 |

    Unusually cold temperatures in Southern California continued, with Los Angeles International Airport setting a record low on Friday.

    LAX got to only 67 degrees, breaking a record set in 1926, according to the National Weather Service.

    Temperatures are expected to stay fairly cool Saturday, with highs around 70 on the coast and in the 80s inland. Conditions will be a bit warmer on Sunday, according to the weather service.

    July has turned out to be cooler than normal.

    Instead of daytime highs approaching the mid-80s, downtown L.A. has experienced temperatures in the mid- to high 70s. From June 1 to July 5, daytime and nighttime temperatures have averaged a relatively cool 69.8 degrees.

    That makes that stretch one of the cooler ones for that time of the year in the last 10 years, just slightly warmer than the same period in 2004 (69.4 degrees) and 2002 (68.9 degrees). The cooler ocean air early in the day has a moderating effect on daily temperature conditions. And low-lying clouds have been tempering the sun’s heat.

    Amerloque 20100711 12h10 Paris time (CET)

  179. Amerloque says:

    It’s happening again !

    Tried twice to post my “Now is not the time … ” comment on JD’s blog.

    Both times, it appeared after the first screen refresh, and did not appear after the second. I changes the second message slightly, to no avail.

    My posts are “sticking” on both CBooker’s and GLean’s latest offerings, at least for the moment.

    I “recommend” that y’all pass by ! (wide, wide grin)

    Amerloque 20100711 13h10 Paris time (CET)

  180. Amerloque says:

    Ah, one of them has appeared.

    Amerloque 20100711 12h21 Paris time (CET)

  181. Ozboy says:
    July 11, 2010 at 6:25 pm

    Apparently the words “card jam” hold meaning for you, as they do for me. Any change in the humidity could trigger one, just as humidity changes cause paper jams with inkjet printers today, though HP units seem to have solved that problem somehow in the past couple of years, which amazes me no end. My seventy-buck bargain store HP is unstoppable…until it runs out of ink LOL!

  182. Amerloque says:
    July 11, 2010 at 9:22 pm

    I still fink Goofrey Fat is an agent for Dr. Evil in disguise and has a picture of Aleister Crowley on the wall behind his desk. He is so mellow you sense that his favourite pastime has to be something displacing or offsetting like smunching small rodents with large mallets or drive-by bus stop patron polo using a large wet mop.

  183. Scud1 says:

    Nice one Walt. I utterly despise the Lean one.
    How’s tricks fella?

  184. Scud1 says:

    Whoo hoo. These are the first words uttered via communist device iPad.
    Wasn’t me…promise (who bought the bloody thing) though got to say my Einzatzgrubben misses said I would be shot at dawn if I ever dared tell anyone…bang!

  185. Edward. says:


  186. Scud1 says:

    Hey Ed my friend.
    Indeed. I only have 9 hours to live.
    Umm… What to do? Ah….wine.

  187. crownarmourer says:

    Looks like the moderators are censoring everything to do homosexuality, I did ask whether this had anything to do with Damian T they censored that bit, so I think they may have outed him or he’s leading a serious double life allegedly. He’s mr strict catholic so that explains everything.

  188. Scud1 says:

    Crown…your contributions to the DT are more than just appreciated…weather the storm fella.

  189. Edward. says:

    Please don’t go yet scud1, there is work to be done, people to rip the p*** out of, BTW have you seen OL’s Gorisms take at JD’s, take a look and laugh mate it is rather good.
    Oh yeah ….enjoy the vino!


  190. Scud1 says:

    Indeed I have Ed…Most excellent.
    Now that it’s published, I expect to see more…well done Orkney!

  191. Scud1 says:

    Usual flat ending to the world cup.

  192. Edward. says:


    Pertaining to your headline posting, Joe Bastardi is in full agreement, the portents are cool.


  193. Scud1 says:

    All that for that…bollocks.

  194. Scud1 says:

    I’m beginning to think, direct action. Starting with Monbiot’s veg’ patch.

  195. Edward. says:


    World cup was flat as yesterdays ale, a fitting finale to a drab affair, Brazil will be better, trouble is the games will be at later times, never mind we may not be there!

    OL’s stuff was great, what a prat Gore is………. nobel peace prize? What a joke!……..Come to think of it if they are shelling ’em out to overtly dodgy film makers……why not award this years’, to Mel Gibson for services rendered to multiracial and religious toleration.


  196. Edward. says:


    Moabot’s veg patch is immoderated, they’ll never let us anywhere near, it is my fault when I wander near his weedy patch of lentils………sometimes I feel the urgent need to utter long sentences laced with appalling profanities.
    Even to the extent of invoking the very devil himself to take back his wayward waif and ***k some sense into him.


  197. crownarmourer says:

    scud1 I’m still blogging but laughing my ass of about the moderators by censoring a comments I made they told me everything I needed to know about a certain blogger, whom I has suspected of being gay as he liked a man who killed himself through drugs and was ok with being a male prostitute, this blogger is supposedly religious and a strict catholic and denigrates other churches constantly. He is a bloody hypocrite.
    Also the blogger has zero personal life listed in wikipedia another sign.
    I wouldn’t normally give a damn but he seriously pissed me off one day.

  198. Ozboy says:

    G’day all. Bit slow overnight, but congratulations to Spain and commiserations to the dutchies. Do you know, that was the first soccer match I’ve watched for four years.

    Re OL’s excellent collection of Gore-isms, Mrs Oz says her theory is Gore is actually a Russian spy and he’s talking in code.

  199. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Morning all,

    Oz & Mrs Oz (good one) lol

    My shtick is Motor Sport…

    Aussie boy Mark Webber wins British F1 Grand Prix……..yay!!

    Quote of the year from Mark as he crossed the Finish Line “Not bad for a No2 driver” after Red Bull took Webber’s modified nose-cone and gave it to their No1. who Mark “sorted” at the first corner.

    Moral of the story? Don’t mess with Aussie country boys!

  200. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    “PRIME Minister Julia Gillard’s refusal to set a carbon price will cost Australian households an extra $2 billion a year in higher electricity prices.”

    Maybe someone can tell me how it’s remotely legal for the Energy Industry to “lock in” carbon-price-justified levies on electricity bills when such a Carbon Tax is not Law, has not been debated or passed by the Parliament, and won’t be discussed by Labor till 2012.

    The price the Utilities have plucked out of thin air is a response to a law that doesn’t exist, for a carbon price that doesn’t exist in this country, for a notional threat to the planet which can’t be substantiated in science.

    Have any of these people heard of a Rule of Law?

  201. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Hey Goggle Bear @ 6.07pm

    “it is a good idea to check your carotid arteries when you get your next checkup”

    Where did that “tip” come from out of the blue?

    How did you know I get weird pains in my neck? Oh well, if I do drop off my perch unexpectedly, I’ll bid you all a fond farewell while I’m still reasonably lucid. LOL

    Maybe you really are “spooky” Goggles, with more than a touch of Pointy’s “intuition”.

  202. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Saw a TV Doco last night on the schism that plunged the Roman Church into the Reformation of the 16th century. Not usually of interest to me and I was thinking of toddling off to bed, when a few key phrases caught my interest.

    Firstly, the centuries-old practice of the Roman Church selling “Indulgences”, and there they were on the screen, brittle bits of old parchment, carefully inscribed and proclaiming that, for a hefty fee, this would save your soul. Another would protect your family, another would “save” all your descendants, another would protect your business, another preserve your fortune, another protect your estates.

    Then along came Martin Luther and it was “on” for young and old.

    Old Henry VIII gets in on the act, and his Protestant reforms weren’t about whether his wife was barren and he could discard her for another (or 2 or 3), it was the HUGE wealth of the Roman Church which beckoned.

    And so the religious wars of the Reformation raged, with Kings and Queens dictating which religion their subjects would follow, peasants and armies massacring each other, heretics burned alive and generations lost to religious wars.

    Half a millennium later and what’s changed? Not much.

    Today we have Governments (and Monarchs) dictating that we must believe in the notion of AGW.
    Govts which, on our behalf and with OUR money, will purchase the “Indulgences” called Carbon Credits, which will save our souls, our families, our descendants, our businesses, our wealth and our property.

    Where’s a latter-day Martin Luther when we need him?

    Well our advocates Booker, North, Watts, Plimer, Carter, Monckton are doing their best, but none are so blind as they who will not see, and the AGW Juggernaut rolls on.

    Wonder what historians will make of this “Reformation” and its aftermath.

    In future I will refer to Carbon Indulgences. That’s what they are, nothing more, nothing less.

    My own strict-Catholic-altar-boy upbringing meant the religious analogy to AGW hit me over the head long before it was picked up by the MSM, in fact as soon as it started being promoted by the warmistas with the same fervour as the most incendiary evangelists. Do you know, you can still pay money to certain religious orders to have masses said (usually for the soul of some departed family member), and those masses carry indulgences, so in a real sense the scam in the Roman Church continues even today.

    The analogy extends not only to indulgences, but to classical religious hypocrisy. We’re all used to the spectacle of televangelists publicly preaching selflessness and austerity, whilst leading private lives of unbridled opulance; publicly proclaiming “family values” and sexual continence, while privately practicing the exact opposite. Saint Al’s CO2-spewing mansions and waterfront apartments are examples that suggest themselves; and now he’s apparently been (ahem) caught with his pants down – Oz

  203. mlpinaus says:

    Yes, Gaia is a Great God. Demanding that we act and feel like shit about the world, live in the compact fluro flickering dark, and mutter Ommmm a lot. At least the lucky menfolk will get 72 virgins each. No, that’s one of the other lots. Discovered that a religious schooling has cured me of all of this distraction. The Science fiction of Scientology has been superceded by the Science corruption of the Warmers…… Weather is bloody cold here right now. Must go and set fire to my hair, or something….


  204. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Hey Marcus,
    If the menfolk get 72 virgins, what about the female martyrs? Do they get the Chippendales? Or maybe it’s only lesbians who get to be martyrs and they’d be happy with the virgins. Speaking of which, isn’t that a bit like a box of Kleenex, one use and……

    Nah, never mind.

  205. Edward. says:

    Mornin/afternoon Oz/Swany,

    Mark Webber…..he won’t have an easier day, he’s a good lad, a honourary pommie, on religion…its all a big joke this thing about the virgins, what really awaits these suicide nutters (in Heaven?) – is the gang bang squad from Evin prison (Tehran), who use homosexual rape as a from of humiliation and torture, ironic eh? An ultra strict Islamic regime, using male on male gang bangers as chief torturers but don’t be caught on the street ‘doing’ it, otherwise it is the crane for you.
    Islam the religion of tolerance?


  206. Edward. says:

    Always thought this was Al’s (Gore) song:

    Great song, great singing, so apt.


  207. mlpinaus says:

    Yes, the “one use” aspect of this had struck me too. More to the point, for you to use for all Eternity……. Hard job to divide infinty by 72. Still get infinity….Got to be a patient man… Don’t want to poke fun, but the point of a Religious school education is that it gives one an innoculation against all forms of the infection, in particular against the fervent “born agains”. Felt myself itching though, when AGW turned up on my radar, just before Dopenhagen. Then Dumb and dumber started on about Australia leading the world wide pack….. little Fu*king Gracie……


  208. Edward. says:

    mlpinaus says:
    July 12, 2010 at 4:47 pm

    I thought the Aussies were pomme bashing, take no prisoners, croc wrestling, shag ’em and leave ’em hard men, you gone green and it to me is an amazing volte face, I liked Thommo, Walters, Waugh bros, Hot rod and Lillee, made beating you all the more satisfying (grin).
    I think the wishy washy BS merchants are everywhere and AGW religious feel has a lot to do with it, it focused the enviro’s, gave them a banner to flock to and the western world has been ‘had’.


  209. mlpinaus says:

    Edward. says:
    July 12, 2010 at 5:04 pm

    Yes, the AGW movement has all the aspects of a new religion. Not like the happy clappy lot, but more sinister, because it couples Gaia worship with the hard nosed money men and it tickles the pollies itch for control at the same time. Can’t really understand how they stand to profit longer term, but paying trillions even in yen is still quite a good collection plate for now….


  210. Edward. says:

    Indeed Marcus.


  211. Scud1 says:

    Morning / afternoon/ evening everyone….

    Oz, yeah, congrats to Mark Webber… Very splendid bloke. Couldn’t mould a better ‘racing driver’… These guys bring out the true jealous lefty in me…what a life!

    Our old friend ‘Tayles’ is back over at the DT with another excellent comment on lefty thinking. Talking of Mark Webber there is a question I’ve always wanted to ask him and that is what is his take on ‘celebrity’ communists / believers in MMGW… Those that have nothing to be jealous about yet use their status to tell everyone else how they must lead a more austere life.
    I’d do it myself but I’m no longer able to log into JD’s blog.

  212. NoIdea says:

    A Blog too late…

    In my lurching through the interweb I found the theory expounded that England is the prime mover behind climate change theory, and I quote…

    “The bottom line is that most of the environmentalism and ideas for environmentalism are being birthed in England.”
    “According to Who Owns the World by Kevin Cahill, the queen is the legal owner of 6,600 million acres of land that equals one sixth of the earth’s non-ocean surface.” And lo and behold, there are the three sixes (666) in one sentence again. You couldn’t make this stuff up!
    If I had only known the AGW scam was being run for Queen and country I could have been a fine watermelon. (Couldn’t I?)
    Is it too late for me to sign up and start bullshizzing for Queen, country and Commonwealth?
    Or do the three sixes signify it is the devils plan?
    Will we dastardly Brits take over the world?
    Makes me wonder, if as they state “The value of her holdings is approximately $33T, more than the estimated value of all of the earth’s natural resources which is estimated to be $25T.”
    Why wouldn’t the Queen just go out and buy the planet? (Ladies generally like shopping!) Instead of becoming “the conquering ruler of the world” she could buy the lot and still have trillions left for a rainy day.

  213. Edward. says:

    Lo! scud1,

    I think I know what Mark’s answer would be…maybe a bit rude too!
    JD blocked me out too, I couldn’t register either, still JD’s loss is another’s gain sir.
    Splendid effort by the lads the other day in Bristol, snatching defeat from the jaws of victory………. or was it……hanging back for bets/sympathy defeat?


  214. Edward. says:

    Morning NoIdea,

    Dunno about buying the world, HM Elizabeth II should concentrate on knocking some common sense into her eldest, he is ‘gone native’, a save the planet (from what? – people like himself?) do gooder and general all round twit.


  215. NoIdea says:

    Morning Ed,

    I saw a royal on the grid the other day at the F1, not being a royal watcher I am not sure which one.
    Am I mad thinking it looked like Chaz?


  216. manonthemoor says:

    July 12, 2010 at 6:17 pm

    Hi Scud the post by yaosxx from Ruth Lee is even more interesting and yaosxx is getting very wound up about deletions.
    Can UK industry ever bear the cost of AGW, will the message ever sink in to our politicians and the EU that this is a criminal act, to kill our industries, impose unreasonable taxes and provide unreasonable subsidies.

    But who pays — Joe Public — for what — almost nothing just like the true impact of Co2

  217. Blackswan Tasmania says:


    Were you actually “on the grid”? Wow, another petrol-head. Mmmm nothing like the smell of high octane fuel in the morning. LOL

    If it WAS Charlie Chuckles, what a hypocrite (in every way)!! Save the planet and all that, while sucking up all that pollution. He’d be better off fulfilling his longing to be a tampon than trying to convince the racing industry to use biofuels, or better still, plug their cars into wind power.

    Still, there was all that free nosh, cameras everywhere to convince us all he’s just “one o’ the boys” at heart (if only he didn’t have all this inconvenient royal thing going on), and how spiffing that a bloody colonial won the race. Must have taken him back to his rugged Timbertop schooldays in the Aussie bush.

    Still, they can’t make a man out of everyone.. LOL

  218. manonthemoor says:

    Blackswan Tasmania
    July 12, 2010 at 8:27 pm

    Another F1 fan here, try to never miss a race, on TV that is.

    Well done Australia, Best F1 for a long time

    Certainly looked like HRH but not much cover

    Mad about the technology and the video cover, only thing missing is the driver medical info.

  219. NoIdea says:

    Hiya, Swan.

    Me on the grid, coo what a lark! No I was watching online unfortunately, in my smoking hot shed of horrors!

    Hey there, MOTM.

    I thought HRH had plenty of cover, a big hat to keep of all the pesky CO2! It was his brim shadow that hid his face and true identity! I thought he was in disguise as a donkey.

    @Watermelons on the DT@
    I was composing this as a reply to a melon, a freemelon in fact. Unfortunately with my slow fat fingers and my slow typing abilities I missed it, and it has gone from page 1.

    So I plop it in here.
    Dear freemelons,
    The science is too difficult for me to understand… a fair admission from someone demonstrating this fact repeatedly. Keep up the good work.

    I also fail to grasp how CO2 can suddenly behave like Maxwell’s little demons and break the basic laws of physics.
    Remove all the odd, new and one side of the equation only BS that is taught as reality now and get back to basics, you find that there is nothing to see here. Move along now, it was all just a hoax.
    The watermelons can keep changing their theories to try and keep up with the destruction of their flawed grasp of the basics, from ye olde reflective CO2 AGW theory, to the all new and improved, original, absorbing and emitting CO2 AGW bollix spouted now.
    You melons can keep assuming what you like about seeming implications in your pretty confident assessments of the climate if you wish. When you grow up, perhaps you may observe some natural cycles in the climate that refute such a serious weight of evidence to support it.
    I predict a downturn in CO2 levels in 2020, not as a result of us spending billions to abate plant breath, rather the natural 800 year lag responding to the global cooling that occurred 790 years ago, just as the atmosphere has responded for several eons before we took over as the prime climate forcing agent from the mighty sun god Ra.
    As dumb as I am, I will stand by my prediction and eat all my veggies if I am wrong.
    Will this downturn in CO2 levels I predict starting in 2020 be grabbed on as the proof that all the billions spent preventing this non existent disaster scenario was money well spent?
    I am willing to damage myself using first hand smoke just to generate secondhand smoke purely to keep folks like you away from me, is it working?
    Is there a direct correlation between smoke particles in the air that you so lovingly describe and a lack of watermelons in the air?
    Will I only get funding for this urgently required study if I can find evidence that proves AGW?


  220. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    manonthemoor says:
    July 12, 2010 at 8:36 pm

    G’day MOTM,

    Have you ever seen or heard of Australian V8 Super Cars? I don’t think you have anything like it in the UK. The races are between our two domestic V8 brands, Ford and GM Holden. Great stuff.

    I saw a Holden “Monaro” on Top Gear once, our “muscle car” export to the USA, badged Chevrolet. I guess Motor Sport is either in your blood or not, but my interest has stemmed from being taught to drive by a race driver when I was young. These days it’s called “advanced” or “defensive” driving and many ex-race-drivers make a lot of money running those courses, but in those days it was just a bloke who knew his onions “passing it on”.

    I reckon I like any sport that I could do “sitting down” LOL

    I believe a lot of the “seat of your pants” TV coverage has its genesis in the Oz industry from way back in the 70s in their coverage of our iconic Panorama Circuit at Bathurst NSW. Our techos were very innovative and didn’t know what they “couldn’t do”. The best view of any race today is right at home, but I do miss the smells and the sounds that reverberate right through your feet. Love it.

  221. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    NoIdea says:
    July 12, 2010 at 9:21 pm

    G’day NoIdea,

    Glad you’re a devotee of motor racing. When I was a kid my Dad had an old Indian Bike as well as a Norton and as a toddler he used to take me for rides perched on the petrol tank. Can you imagine that today? They’d throw him in gaol for child abuse and throw away the key..LOL Probably follows that I took an interest in motor bike racing when Aussies like Wayne Gardiner and Mick Doohan were World Champions.

    Great piece from you on the watermelons. I tossed up whether to put my earlier observations on the Reformation on the DT but decided I couldn’t really be bothered. They probably would have yanked it on the grounds of religious vilification.

  222. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Hi Oz,

    Caught up with your response to my earlier Comment. Fantastic link to the Genesis number.
    I didn’t know they still did the indulgence thing. Unbelievable. The only member of the clergy I still have any time for is the Vicar of Dibley…LOL

    In the 60s a young family friend, a devoted follower of the Roman Church, lost her baby who only lived a few hours. Her priest refused the child a proper funeral as it hadn’t been “cleansed” and baptised. He harangued her for hours about man being born in original sin and she shouldn’t expect him to allow an unbaptised person into his hallowed cemetery. She lost her marbles and it wasn’t the loss of the child that tipped her over the edge. Nuff said.

  223. NoIdea says:

    Hiya Swan,

    I have always been a huge fan of Mick Doohan (and Jeremy Burgess!) Such a shame Mick was such a pure racer and not the showman that Vale is. He deserves more respect than he is given I feel.

    I am glad I did place that Watermelon bit here, as I attempted a reply to freemelons at the DT and it was gone one refresh later LOL
    Mind you, I did mention melons, BS, bollix and AGW all in one post though. (Bollix btw is to bungle; botch; make a mess of) maybe the moderators Thought that when referring to eating veggies, I was being cannibalistic or sexual in some way?
    Do they have seriously perverted minds?
    To always judge others by their own standards in this way?


  224. manonthemoor says:

    Blackswan Tasmania
    July 12, 2010 at 9:28 pm

    My motoring started at 17 with a 1934 Austin 7

    Spent more time off the road than on it. Waited to show canvas on the tyres, always flat battery, traveled to school in it, tried to make me wear my school cap LOL

    Built my own Speedex special by age 20

    Happy days


  225. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Poor old Mick must have broken every bone in his body at one time or another – I always liked his “true grit”. My favourite bit in your piece is……

    “I am willing to damage myself using first hand smoke just to generate secondhand smoke purely to keep folks like you away from me, is it working?”
    Can I use it some time? LOL


    An Austin 7 eh? Ah memories. I lost my virtue in the backseat of one of those…LOL
    PS (I was a contortionist) hahaha

  226. Amanda says:

    Edward. says:
    July 12, 2010 at 6:57 pm
    Lo! scud1,

    I think I know what Mark’s answer would be…maybe a bit rude too!
    JD blocked me out too, I couldn’t register either,

    Hi Scud and Ed.
    It’s none of my business really, but are you sure, Ed, that JD ‘blocked you out’? I don’t know who you are when you post there, but I find it hard to believe that James would block anyone, for a number of reasons. 1) He’s tolerant of all but the most disruptive trolls; 2) the moderators can’t be counted on(!!!) to take care of OTT comments, or indeed comments like bambi among daisies, for that matter; 3) you can always reappear under a different name, surely?; 4) James is too busy to spend time blocking people, which I think he would have to request (and techies at the DT are probably like techies anywhere — wrapped up in their own concerns, backlogged). I just don’t know what you might have done that would cause something other than a system problem to block you. There have been system problems in the past, which posters have even discussed with James openly on the blog, as well as privately through e-mail — and he is not responsible for any of ’em. Nor can he fix them himself.

    You may not be bothered, of course, but if it were me, I’d want to know what was behind the blockage, or at least if I were a regular somewhere and friendly to the author, I might want to know that it wasn’t the author that had blocked me. I’d probably e-mail James at his personal website and ask him outright: ‘Was it something I said?’ If it wasn’t, then perhaps it’s just a technical glitch that can be sorted.

    Cheers, Amanda

  227. Amanda says:

    That should read: the moderators CAN be counted on… to mow down everything in sight.

  228. izen says:

    I’m away for a few days on real-world pursuits and the ‘junk’ science here proliferates!
    I’ll try and get to some of the more egregious nonsense later, but first,
    @- noidea –
    “Taking the fact that for as long as we can tell from examining ice cores (Vostok) Temperature has caused CO2 levels to rise after about 800 years. If we examine the historically accurate graph from 1990 and go back exactly 800 years from the year 2000 …”

    A short warm period 800 years ago doesn’t cause a change in CO2 levels 800 years later. At least there is no credible mechanism for such an event.
    The 800 year delay seen in the ice-cores records a response of the carbon cycle after 800 years of CONTINUOUS warming as the redistribution of solar energy due to the milankovitch cycles caused the break-up of ice-caps in the lower latitudes of the N. hemisphere.

    Quote-” we arrive at 1200 the peak point of the medieval optimum with 2 centuries of warming to get there.”

    As that link to the global map of paleoclimate indicators of a MWP showed, there is NOT a consistent time for any peak. It peaked, and was over in some places before it even started in others. The evidence for it being a synchronous event in the Northern and Southern hemispheres is weak.
    You can play a version of the tile-matching game on this, trying to find two graphs where the MWP peak does match…

    Anther problem with your hypothesis, CO2 from deep ocean sources from a few centuries ago (or even millenia) would still have C14 and natural ratios of C13. The rise in CO2 measured at present is from a source which is reduced in C13 isotope, a clear fingerprint of a biological source, and has NO C14, a clear indication that it is a fossil biological source from which all the C14 has long since decayed.
    The fingerprint of fossil fuel burning is unmistakable as the source of the rise.

  229. Amanda says:

    P. S. When the format was changed to Disqus, I had no success with the Telegraph log-on for some reason so I had to register through Disqus. There are different ways to register/log on and that must be because the system designers know that different computer set-ups will encounter different obstacles. Have you tried all the alternatives? Just a thought.

  230. Amanda says:

    If the menfolk get 72 virgins, what about the female martyrs?

    Blackswan, I would applaud your egalitarianism if the equal spoils in this case were not for people so revolting to my mind. As far as I’m concerned, the best thing that can happen to all the martyrs is to find there’s nothing there….

    As for the ‘one use and they’re…’ question: yes, one time and they’re experienced. Which some people prefer. In fact, it’s only men who don’t know how to be human with women and who use power-politics in all their relations whatsoever, who value virginity in and of itself, and that is (surprise!) because it gives them the power: power in women is something they can’t stand. If I had to live in a society of such men, it would be death for me. (Elvis Costello in New Amsterdam ‘…living a life that is almost like suicide’…. except that it would be ‘almost like homicide’ instead.)

  231. scud1 says:

    Pat Michaels take on the Muir Russell stitch up over at the WSJ…

  232. NoIdea says:

    Hi, Swan.

    Please feel free to use anything that I have contributed if it can be of use in the fight for realism.

    Did you check for your lost virtue under the driver’s seat? I find virtues can roll when dropped; of course it could just be stuck in the crack… of the backseat. You will often find loose change down there as well.
    Sometimes in the gap between seat parts you will find sticky furry little balls of goo, do you think this could be where trolls are spawned?
    Inspired I shall pen an ode to Moderators.

    Moddy trolls, moldy balls

    From the land of the void of lost virtues made from spittle, toffee and mould
    Out creeps summat nasty it is green and furry, sticky, smelly and old
    A baby troll has been summoned to come sing all of its tales of woe
    It may be a young old thing but WTF does it know?
    Sweet F all it is seemingly desperate to show
    But then I am a dummy so what do I know?

    Hello Izen,

    Glad to see you back, I was starting to worry about you. I will wait for some of your replies to the more egregious nonsense before getting too excited. We only have to wait 10 years to see if my theory is correct. If it is not I have already stated I will eat my veggies. If I am vilified, I hope you will not hold it against me too much if I stick my tongue out and my fingers up whilst shouting “Nya nya I was right you are wrong, told you so!”
    Is that too much to ask?


  233. scud1 says:

    Hello Amanda.

    I don’t think that James has banned me, more likely me forgetting passwords and not being bothered to submit for a new one as your good self, Mack, SA, RR, Crown’ et al are doing a cracking job of defending the realm and digging up the dirt…I’m happy to just ‘lurk’ and enjoy.
    Hope everything’s fine and dandy down Texas way.


  234. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Hi Scud,

    Thanks for the WSJ link. One sentence jumped off the page for me……..

    “I think the community should . . . terminate its involvement with this journal at all levels . . . and leave it to wither away into oblivion and disrepute.” Michael Mann.

    Did this bloke moonlight for Disqus?

  235. orkneylad says:

    “From the land of the void of lost virtues”…..
    NoIdea, that’s rather cool indeed. 🙂

  236. Edward. says:


    Thank you for the reply, yer a good lass, I should have made it clear what I was meaning (slap my wrist) , I didn’t mean JD, I was directing my ire at the Delerium Tremens, disgust blocked me out and with advice from scouseBilly managed to get in eventually, though I watch mainly now, Orkney Lad’s post on Gore yesterday made me laugh our loud, so I am there in spirit.
    Are you in the Lone Star state now?
    If you are is it very hot and have you seen the Billy and Dusty yet (ZZ top)??

    A song about me in the eighties (grin).

    Kindest regards,


  237. manonthemoor says:

    Hello Amanda

    Can I suggest you try a You tube video based on my’holes’ post above

    Note the words may be rubbish but the picture will be great LOL

    Thank you — Happy moving

  238. Blackswan Tasmania says:


    Come to think of it, the expression “to lose one’s virtue” is really inane. As you say, it’s not like it got lost like a bus ticket or rolled under the seat like a lost Malteser. Maybe “innocence” is a better word. But then “lost” wouldn’t be right as I’m still naive enough to think the dispensers of Carbon Indulgences will get their comeuppance.

    Getting late, ‘night all.

  239. Edward. says:


    Vapid shite from Newsweek but the cages are being rattled, it is heart warming to see most countries shying away from the bigger ‘amelioration remedies’ all except one place which is full of blinded twats, who call themselves politicians………..that country is Britain!

    As Dave, Edinburgh stated so well, our effin lot are surrounded by the vested interest gang, so it will take much weaning to wrench them away from the AGW teat, we need another bastard of a winter, coming up soon to a place near you!…… the boreal hemisphere of course, it is hard to wish for something like that though, I can rememb er some very hard winters, the summer of 76 was a great summer in Blighty and the winter of 76/77 was very harsh in the North of England, I fear history is about to repeat itself, Que sera sera.


  240. NoIdea says:

    Hiya OL

    Many thanks for the praise. I find keeping cool company to be somewhat inspiring. Observing the ignorance of others gets me ranting though. In my hopping through the ether I often see strange statements, this one from a page I can no longer find.

    “I just discovered this site while reading about Canada’s deplorable lack of action at Copenhagen. I find it odd that we’re still bothering to debate whether climate change is fact or myth when all around us our Earth is being degraded. Why are we arguing? We all live here. Whether or not the science backs what we can percieve with our own senses, we are all subject to the devastating changes that are taking place.”

    I went and checked real time with my own senses on these apparently devastating changes. What I percieve (sic)
    (I do hope I have used that sic thing right, I do not have a clue what it means, I would guess it is a Latin thing for when you quote or paraphrase some one including an original error. I hope some one can set me straight if I am barking!)
    Is a mild slightly overcast summer’s day with a hint of fine rain in the air. The trees are all green and bigger than last year, everywhere I look there are multicolored blooms with bumble bees foraging for pollen. The devastation suggested is not readily apparent.

    From an excellent link provided by izen a while back the incredible words of Clifford.

    The harm which is done by credulity in a man is not confined to the fostering of a credulous character in others, and consequent support of false beliefs. Habitual want of care about what I believe leads to habitual want of care in others about the truth of what is told to me. Men speak the truth to one another when each reveres the truth in his own mind and in the other’s mind; but how shall my friend revere the truth in my mind when I myself am careless about it, when I believe things because I want to believe them, and because they are comforting and pleasant? Will he not learn to cry, “Peace,” to me, when there is no peace? By such a course I shall surround myself with a thick atmosphere of falsehood and fraud, and in that I must live. It may matter little to me, in my cloud-castle of sweet illusions and darling lies; but it matters much to Man that I have made my neighbours ready to deceive. The credulous man is father to the liar and the cheat; he lives in the bosom of this his family, and it is no marvel if he should become even as they are. So closely are our duties knit together, that whoso shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

    To sum up: it is wrong always, everywhere, and for anyone, to believe anything upon insufficient evidence.

    If a man, holding a belief which he was taught in childhood or persuaded of afterwards, keeps down and pushes away any doubts which arise about it in his mind, purposely avoids the reading of books and the company of men that call in question or discuss it, and regards as impious those questions which cannot easily be asked without disturbing it — the life of that man is one long sin against mankind.

    Absolutely breathtaking, ‘the thick atmosphere of falsehood and fraud, It may matter little to me, in my cloud-castle of sweet illusions and darling lies,’ these poetic words of truth ring clear, and could have been written with the climate hoax in mind.

    Will I ever achieve this level of lucidity, beauty and truth with my witterings?


  241. Amanda says:
    July 12, 2010 at 11:07 pm

    How about 72 Virginians, like first, second and third string of the UVa football team LOL! Or more to a woman’s taste, the men’s swim team, hubba, hubba, though they are mostly gay if they are swimmers, IMHO.

    Had a power outage from air conditioner overload on the block, took out the whole neighborhood (it was an older transformer, and what a bang! Thought it was Osama himself).

  242. crownarmourer says:

    Well seems like the Swiss love child rapists, they refuse to deport Roman Polanski, as far as I’m concerned the Swiss are scum.

  243. crownarmourer says:

    Your having a heat wave and we are having a massive downpour of Monsoon proportions, and it’s cooled things down a lot since we get your weather first Walt it’s going to be cooler in a few days, your weather will be second hand when you get to use it.

  244. Blackswan Tasmania says:
    July 12, 2010 at 10:51 am

    39 months in country and I’m still here, of course I’m spooky. I also sell indulgences, in exchange for real live not-so-virgins who like to dance and do dinner and talk about books and life or…nothing at all.

    Don’t fool around with the neck pain. A cardiologist’s nurse will pop a stethoscope on your neck both sides and let you know for sure. If you get tingly under your armpits like little needle jabs, you are almost there.

    This is how good good Catholic kids used to be before Vatican II turned the Church into the Baptist Church with an Oedipus complex: our CO would ORDER the married Catholic snuffies to go on the Taipei or Osan R & R runs, as it was very common for married Catholic males to abstain the entire time they were overseas, get home to their beloveds, and blow out a carotid artery owing to their excellent health and muscle tone and um, ardency. I remember a number of 17 t o19 year old Catholic Marines who to my mind died in combat, obvious virgins, with never a taste of the joys of life to their names.

    Promise me you’ll see the cardio dude, Blackswan. Not worth messing around with.

  245. orkneylad says:

    Just for you big man. 😉

  246. NoIdea says:

    Thank you for that link to an ageless song, still as valid now as it was then.
    There are few of us at Rastechs snug bar if you want to pop in for a chat.

  247. NoIdea says:

    Try this from Brock/Calvert

    I love the second line
    “nobody ever called him Al”

  248. Amanda says:


    The swimmers would be shaven all over which could be a bit weird. Gymnasts might be more the thing. But personally, I prefer men that are egg-heady and have better things to do than press weights. I don’t mind if they wear glasses. I’m more interested in how they fill their suits than in how they fill their Speedos. I like it when they have an individual style and the confidence to hang with it, even if it’s not the fashion right now (e.g. sideburns). I also like (sorry, didn’t mean to go into such detail but might as well round out the point) non-visual desirable maleness: deepish voice, quick humour, savoir faire, money in the bank. (Joke. Sort of!)

  249. Amanda says:

    massive downpour of Monsoon proportions,

    Crown: yeah, that’s what they had in south Texas all of June and into July. Now it’s stopped so I have to run the irrigation. You can’t store it up!

  250. Amanda says:


    My next YouTube vid is likely to show a pool party in a lanai in Florida — I’ll be the one flaked out on a floater bed, with a G&T in the handy holder — subject To Be Decided. Or maybe there won’t be one!

  251. Amanda says:

    Scud and Ed:

    That’s all right, then.

    Thanks for your good wishes; I’m still in Texas but will be driving out with a trailer full of worldly goods early on Saturday. I suppose that means I’ll have to change my avatar on the Telenaff.

  252. izen says:

    @ Edward. says:
    July 11, 2010 at 7:20 pm
    “On topic!
    Scandalous piece of crap here from National Snow and Ice Data Centre:
    With a robust response here from TAV:
    Jeff demolishes the ‘propaganda’ and I’ll leave it to discerning readers to make up their own minds.”

    Discerning readers will always make up their own minds, it is the undiscerning that like to be told what to think – or for their sources to be pre-biased with their prefered dogma.

    A little bit of background.
    The North and South pole are opposites in more than geographical position.
    One is a continent surrounded by ocean, the other an ocean surrounded by continents.
    The sea ice extent in each case is dependent on the LOCAL climate of the land next to that ocean.

    For the South pole the dominant LOCAL climate is determined by the South polar continent. That has a climate largely shaped by the circumpolar winds. This isolates the South polar continent from much of the global climate system and has been strengthened by the LOSS of greenhouse gas over the pole due to CFCs. Cooling, and lower snowfall over the Southern continent has reduced the land based ice, and increased the adjacent sea-based ice.

    For the North pole the ice extent is a result of the wind, currents and temperature which are determined by the surrounding landmasses. The Atlantic index measures the pressure difference between the polar regions and the lower latitudes (around Portigual if memory serves) and this affects the wind which in turn can move significant quantities of ice. Warm winds from the land next to the North polar ocean will also melt more ice, so the climate on the adjacent land is a factor in Arctic ice extent.

    The result is that polar ice extent indicvates quite different things at each pole because of the fundimental difference in geography.
    Arctic sea ice is a significant measure of the climate over a large part of the Northern continental land.
    Antarctic sea ice is a significant measure of a much more local climate, isolated from the global system, that operates over the S polar continent. Both show evidence of human induced climate change because of GHG changes, but for diametrically opposite reasons.

  253. Locusts says:

    good post isen, good to be reminded of the bleeding obvious!

  254. Amanda says:

    By the way, Oz, I don’t know whether WordPress set the font up for you or not, but I really appreciate a nice big font: it’s so much easier to read. I hate looking at websites where the text is scrunched into various tiny boxes and you need a bloomin’ magnifying glass to read it….

    I’d like to take credit Amanda but no, this is bog-standard default what WordPress gave me. It’s easy for me to change and I understand WP changes its default font periodically, but as we’re all happy with this we’ll stay with it – Oz

  255. NoIdea says:


    The land warms the sea, dum de dum
    The sea warms the air, dum de dum
    The air warms the sun, dum de dum
    Is this song really dumb? didely um bum dum


  256. izen says:

    The hypothesis put forward by the thread topic is that a cooling period has already started, or is about to start as indicated by the PDO index.

    The mistake, NOT ozboys, he has inherited from Easterbrook, is to claim that there is a good correlation between the PDO index and global temperatures.
    This not quite the case.
    There is a good correlation between the PDO and the variations over several years/decades with the PDO as shown by the Carter, De Freitas, Micheals paper recently – as long as you remove any trend.
    But there is no predictive power in the PDO for what the level of temperature may be, only its variation.

    For example, the hypothesis claims that we are now, or since 1998 entering a cooling phase just as the PDO entered a cooling phase (as marked on the graphic) in 1946.
    The obvious problem is that global temperatures are significantly higher than in 1946. The peak year before cooling was around 1944, but again it was cooler then than now.

    The conspicuous absence in the graphics used is a global temperature series.
    After the 1944 peak (0.19degC above the 51-80 average) the temperature in the next decade , 45-55 did drop along with the PDO index, but if you take 1998 as the recent peak, the subsequent decade has been warmer than the preceding one. This does NOT duplicate the pattern of temperatures seen at the lat warm-to-cool transition of the PDO.

    Either the transition has been incorrectly identified, and has not yet happened, or the effect seen on global temperatures in the 1940s – a cooler decade after the transition than before, is dominated this time around by the ongoing warming trend.

    1935-1944 was a warmer decade than 1945-1953. That is consistent with a hypothesis that the PDO switch causes cooling.
    But 1989-1998 is a COOLER decade than 1999-2008.
    If the PDO switch has happened the hypothesis it causes cooling is refuted.

    The line about beautiful theories and ugly facts comes to mind….

  257. crownarmourer says:

    amanda hope your move goes well, if it’s Florida maybe a picture of oil covered pelicans.
    The good thing about the rain is it pulls heat from the atmosphere and cools things down a lot.

  258. Amanda says:

    Crown: you cruel man, you.

    Yes, true about the rain, which is why I prefer Florida (one of the reasons). The summer thunderstorms are practically a daily event, they’re great to watch from the lanai, and they’re refreshing. In Houston we seem to go instead from unbearable humidity to monsoons with consequent flooding, right back to unbearable humidity. The refreshment and entertainment factors both seem to be lacking.

    Noidea’s got a song. Here’s my topical song:

    Leaving Texas
    18th of July…
    sun so hot, the clouds so low,
    eagles fill the sky….

    Slight amendment of the ‘Jack Straw’ lyrics (Grateful Dead).

  259. crownarmourer says:

    amanda the environment will recover in less than two years, our move to Georgia is on hold at the moment pending my wifes potential employers getting their act together. We shall see personally if I get the chance it’s Denver for me.

  260. izen says:

    @-Locusts says:
    July 13, 2010 at 3:43 am
    “good post isen, good to be reminded of the bleeding obvious!”

    Well it help avoid doing something bleedin stupid like arguing that the climate implications of shrinking sea ice extent at the N pole are somehow negated by the increasing sea ice extent at the S pole.

    Just think how bleeding idiotic it would be to argue that the loss of ozone by CFCs at the S pole was not causing a colder continent and increasing sea ice because the same thing was not happening at the N pole.

    @-NoIdea says:
    July 13, 2010 at 3:49 am
    “The land warms the sea, dum de dum
    The sea warms the air, dum de dum
    The air warms the sun, dum de dum
    Is this song really dumb? didely um bum dum”

    In order of magnitude…..

    The sun warms the sea
    The sun warms the land
    the sun warms the air

    The land warms the air
    The sea warms the air

    The air warms the sea
    The air warms the land

    Then if you want to count minuscule geothermal effects…
    The land warms the sea

    And of course last and least,
    The air warms the sun

  261. izen says:

    crownarmourer says:
    July 13, 2010 at 4:26 am
    “The good thing about the rain is it pulls heat from the atmosphere and cools things down a lot.”

    Okay, I know this is needlessly pedantic and I do understand that it SEEMS that way…

    Rain is actually an indication of a WARMING of the atmosphere. When water vapour condenses to liquid water and then falls as rain it represents a transfer of stored energy to the atmosphere by the phase change of water.
    That happens at an altitude where temperatures are lower than they are at the surface, so the rain may well be cooler than the surface it falls on and cool it, but it cools by contact with a solid surface or re-evaporation.

    The original condensation of the water vapour is part of the climate system that transfers energy received at the surface from the sun into energy that prevents the greater cooling of the atmosphere at some altitude above the surface.

    (pedantry off…-grin-)

  262. crownarmourer says:

    izen I don’t care all I know is it is three or four degrees cooler afterwards, ever been in sub tropical rain in summer it is quite warm like being in a really big shower that doesn’t stop.

  263. Amanda says:

    Crown, I hope you get Denver then.

  264. crownarmourer says:

    Amanda I hope so too, but we shall see. The freeways there are insane at rush hour.

  265. NoIdea says:

    In order of magnitude….. by izen and NoIdea

    The sun warms the sea (depending on what depth it be!)

    The sun warms the land (with this I agree!)

    The sun warms the air (and now we are getting there!)

    The sea warms the air (I moved this up one!)

    The land warms the air (indeed it does!)

    The air warms the sea (but only if warmer, and then not by much!)

    The air warms the land (at the risk of repeating… please see above!)

    Then if you want to count minuscule geothermal effects…

    The land warms the sea (quite a lot where it’s hot!)

    And of course last and least,
    The air warms the sun (but not by a jot!)

    Do we make a great double team or what?


  266. Edward. says:

    Izal, 13/07 03.o7,

    DoH!!!……………. I give up, there is so much wrong in that post, that I don’t know where to start BUT I can’t let it go without a little refutation.

    Both show evidence of human induced climate change because of GHG changes, but for diametrically opposite reasons.

    Lets take the above (italicized) statement.

    “Both show evidence of human induced climate change”, absolutely not true in anybodies money…….because of GHGs?? …..OK we have rising CO2 – no argument with that but world T is going into reverse, negative correlation or put another way FTFF (***K THE FEEDBACK FACTOR).
    So in one polar region (Antarctic) we have massive advance of sea ice showing considerable cooling, in the North we have melting going down to a snails pace in JULY, yes JULY and the recovery will be greater than the last three years, ergo the recovery trend in the Arctic sea ice is UP…………………. and erm…….. this is still ‘evidence of human induced climate change’…… so?

    The evidence reflects a symmetry of cooling at both poles, the sea ice in the Arctic is second and third year ice, it ain’t going nowhere now, the further recovery of Arctic Sea ice will be greater this winter, mark my words, while in the South the sea ice goes from strength to strength, its influence of polar winds reaching South Island NZ and its icy tentacles stretch as far as Southern Chile and Argentina, South Africa, where they are all suffering unseasonal cold (world cup watchers will know this) and even the Australian land mass is much cooler, so more GHGs equals less heating in the poles.

    Then the kicker in your ‘argument’; you infer (‘human induced) GHGs are causing decrease in (sea ice) the NORTH but increase in the SOUTH………erm what?

    CFCs is a non sequitur, the climate of the world is dynamic and all areas are interlinked by ocean currents and winds, I grow sleepy.

    Gorra gan t’ma bed luv, I grow weary, must be the miasma of blurry, brain deadening BSBBs syndrome.


  267. Ozboy says:

    G’day all,

    Mack just posted this on DT. It’s so funny I had to re-paste it before the thought police over there get to it:

    Brill copied and saved just before the hate squad got to it
    1. Teaching Maths In 1970

    A logger sells a truckload of timber for £100.

    His cost of production is 4/5 of the price.

    What is his profit?

    2. Teaching Maths In 1980

    A logger sells a truckload of timber for £100.

    His cost of production is 80% of the price.

    What is his profit?

    3. Teaching Maths In 1990

    A logger sells a truckload of timber for £100.

    His cost of production is £80.

    How much was his profit?

    4. Teaching Maths In 2000

    A logger sells a truckload of timber for £100.

    His cost of production is £80 and his profit is £20.

    Your assignment: Underline the number 20.

    5. Teaching Maths In 2005

    A logger cuts down a beautiful forest because he is selfish and inconsiderate and cares nothing for the habitat of animals or the preservation of our woodlands.

    Your assignment: Discuss how the birds and squirrels might feel as the logger cut down their homes for just a measly profit of £20.

    6. Teaching Maths In 2009

    A logger is arrested for trying to cut down a tree in case it may be offensive to Muslims or other religious groups not consulted in the Felling License.
    He is also fined £100 for his chainsaw in breach of Health and Safety legislation as it is deemed too dangerous and could cut something.

    He has used the chainsaw for over 20 years without incident however he does not have the correct Certificate of Competence and is therefore considered to be a recidivist and habitual criminal. His DNA is sampled and his details circulated throughout all government agencies.

    He protests and is taken to Court and fined another £100 because he is such an easy target.

    When he is released he returns to find Gypsies have cut down half his wood to build a camp on his land.

    He tries to throw them off but is arrested, prosecuted for harassing an ethnic minority, imprisoned and fined a further £100.

    While he is in jail the Gypsies cut down the rest of his wood and sell it on the black market for £100 cash. They also have a leaving BBQ of squirrel and pheasant and depart leaving behind several tonnes of rubbish and asbestos sheeting. The forester on release is warned that failure to clear the fly tipped rubbish immediately at his own cost is an offence.

    He complains and is arrested for environmental pollution and breach of the peace, and invoiced £12,000 plus VAT for safe disposal costs by a regulated Government contractor.

    Your assignment: How many times is the forester going to have to be arrested and fined before he realises that he is never going to make £20 profit by hard work, give up, sign on to the dole and live off the state for the rest of his life?

    7. Teaching Maths In 2010

    A logger doesn’t sell a lorry load of timber because he can’t get a loan to buy a new lorry because his bank has spent all his and their money on a derivative of securitised debt related to sub- prime mortgages in Alabama and lost the lot with only some government money left to pay a few million pound bonuses to their senior directors and the traders who made the biggest losses.

    The logger struggles to pay the £1,200 road tax on his old lorry, however, as it was built in the 1970s it no longer meets the Emissions Regulations and he is forced to scrap it.

    Some Bulgarian loggers buy the lorry from the scrap merchant and put it back on the road. They undercut everyone on price for haulage and send their cash back home, while claiming unemployment for themselves and their relatives. If questioned they speak no English and it is easier to deport them at the Governments expense.

    Following their holiday back home they return to the UK with different names and fresh girls and start again. The logger protests, is accused of being a bigoted racist and as his name is on the side of his old lorry he is forced to pay £1,500 registration fees as a gang master.

    The Government borrows more money to pay more to the bankers as bonuses are not cheap. The parliamentarians feel they are missing out and claim the difference on expenses and allowances.

    You do the maths.

    8. Teaching Maths 2017

    أ المسجل تبيع حموله شاحنة من الخشب من اجل 100 دولار. صاحب ت3لفة

    الانتاج من

    الثمن. ما هو الربح له؟

  268. mlpinaus says:

    Ozboy says:
    July 13, 2010 at 9:46 am

    Love it. Copied it to several like minded people.


  269. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Hi Oz, Mack, Marcus

    It’s brilliant! And so “close to the bone” that it can only be described as “black humour”.

  270. Pointman says:

    Hiya All,

    After 4 days stuck in academia, reading through the posts has been a cold shower. God it felt good. Reality. Simply too many funny and good ones to know where to begin.


  271. Walt O'Brien says:

    Amanda says:
    July 13, 2010 at 2:35 am

    Good show. Mr. Amanda’s a lucky guy. Insofar as preferring intelligence and stalwart character, I have always taken a woman’s preference for males proud of their economic independence as a sign of her high regard for character, not her greed. If he can’t make a go of it on his own, why ought a woman bother?

    Fine and engaging conversation is a lifetime’s treasure, physical beauty but a vain and temporary sham. The best evidence that men feel this way was a poll taken in 1980 of who was considered the most beautiful woman in Hollywood on that year’s screen. Gena Rowlands won hands down. You remember “Gloria,” that film by John Cassevetes where a former gangsters’ moll takes on her ex-lovers’ mob to protect a little boy’s life? She invented the genre of tough, brave, principled women for an entire generation.

    Bravery is still the most powerful aphrodisiac and worthy-male attractant a woman can deploy in her arsenal of charms. Everything else is a distance second. Also, as they say around here, stoopid just buys you more stoopid, LOL! Who needs it?

    I never got the notion of post-death payoff for good deeds in any religion. Pay me now and prove it’s real or have a nice day LOL! No one does good for the sake of payoff anyhow, you would think religions would be more sophisticated in leadership. It’s the honour of giving and conquering the logic of self-interest that drives the altruistic person. It’s just a shame the communists and other monastically warped-religious fartfaces are the only ones who see this as a proper tool for social transformation.

  272. Walt O'Brien says:

    Mack really knocks it out of the park over the right-field fence with that post.

    The main motivator for me quitting the normal type of smoking (this e-ciggie stuff is smoking with just a bigger kick and no health consequences to it, that’s all LOL!) is I am ill with paying for welfare bums’ benefit which is paid for out of ciggie tax revenue. E-ciggies only cover sales tax on a standard basis. Makes each ciggie taste that much better.

    Tough to say and know, but things will not change until the entire social safety net goes broke down to the last penny. They also do not ask the welfare tramps if they would rather have a job: they want to work,but they understand the dynamic of 20 women with bar stewards keeping one social worker alive an dthemselves if they play the game. Most social workers are ex-welfare skeezers, in my experience. It is next to impossible for a welfare recipient to break free in this country unless they break the Ghordian knot and step out into the scarey “void” of freedom with fear of consequences. I missed a lot of meals as a kid because Dad wouldn’t take assistance, not even from his own church fellow current or former religionists. Even then, most onf welfare lived to a higher standard than the working poor. Even today, per income level, blacks on the dole have a higher living standard than equivalently compensated working poor whites. There are thousands of square miles of working “white trash” trailer parks that look like Bangladesh put against square miles of what look to be luxury high rises complete with security guard and gated playgrounds in the cities for work-free scroungers on the dole in the USA. Guess who also gets college for free, where trailer park working “white trash” and working blacks and working Hispanic have to pay full freight, though the latter can negotiate substantial discounts and college acceptance preference over even SAT score champion whites.

    Asians and Jews actually get docked on their SATs, regardless of income level, and step to the back of the line for college admission. The quota system of the 1940’s is still in place.

  273. Walt O'Brien says:

    Should be “with no fear of consequences.”

  274. Walt O'Brien says:

    All this AGW crappola is going into the dumpster in November here, anyway, IMHO, as the Dems are going to get slaughtered unless the leading GOP members get caught in flagrante disgusto with various and sundry barnyard animals. As proof, one of the the websites which most vigorously supported Obama’s campaign,, now sells T-shirts with Obama food stamps as the logo (quite cleverly done).

    Even Dems are fed up with the Dems. Obama should have left NASA alone, as everyone knows the creation of NASA was Kennedy’s ONLY positive achievement while in office as Prez. Now that NASA is shortly to become Judenrein and Cape Canaveral the site of a major mosque (IMHO soon), people are getting upset.

  275. Walt O'Brien says:

    I feel sufficiently confident of the 180 degree turnaround in favour of sanity prevailing in the USA over carbon and AGW mythology in November that I am transforming my present site to a biz site rather than technology go-to thermal option advocate site. ALL th emain power generation trade journals, even including the renewables state-subsidy scroungers trade groups, are on my page now (they know better than me the money won’t be there for them after November).

  276. Walt O'Brien says:

    The renewables folks not only are going to lose their subsidies, their bankers and investment partners are going to demand a faster paydown, come November. The renewables’ bankers and investors are also the very folks who bankroll the AGW myth, the “socially responsible” portfolio managers for union pension funds for university, church and governmental workers, so they stand to lose everything when the West re-grows a brain.

  277. Amanda says:

    Walt, glad to hear that e-cigs work for you. It’s worth it. A dear friend of mine told me once that ‘quitting God is like giving up smoking’: it’s a big deal, and you can’t bite it off all at once. But (if you’re that way inclined), you get there in the end. I’m sure you will, Walt, after everything else you’ve pulled off. And even when you’ve succeeded (I hope it’s OK to say this), you can still think that you were a cool cat who smoked, because that’s what cats do, and there’s no shame in it. It’s just not good for your health. Health, which is not quite the same as character and virtue…thank god.

  278. Amanda says:


    Re: the interesting conundrum you present: as my political philosophy student-boyfriend put it to me: if one ‘sacrifices’ frankly for the sake of heavenly reward, how is it really a sacrifice? Isn’t it instead astute calculation, an exchange of a lesser good for a higher one, and hardly a sacrifice worth the name? I countered that, if you are late in on a bad flight and I have to wake up at 3 am out of my warm cosy bed to drive downtown through a snowstorm to collect you when the taxi drivers have all gone to bed, that IS a sacrifice, but I’m STILL deserving of my reward, which is to get you home in one piece. So I don’t entirely buy it. But I see his point. Especially where religion and eternal happiness (can you conceive of it?) is concerned.

  279. Amanda says:

    Pointman: Hi.
    Was wondering where you’d got to.

  280. Amanda says:

    re: font — yeah, stay with it, it’s great!

  281. Amanda says:

    Walt, I like John Cassavetes, but I have to admit that I only ‘know’ him from the excellent Columbo TV film he was in, starring with Blythe Danner.

  282. Amanda says:

    Walt sez: when the West re-grows a brain.

    Oh, so you think it’ll happen, do you?

  283. izen says:

    “And of course last and least,
    The air warms the sun (but not by a jot!)”

    Its a very VERY small jot, but the Earth DOES warm the sun!

    And the air warms the land and sea even when it is cooler than the land and sea because it is still ‘warmer’ than a vacuum.

  284. izen says:

    @ Edward –
    “… in the North we have melting going down to a snails pace in JULY, yes JULY and the recovery will be greater than the last three years, ergo the recovery trend in the Arctic sea ice is UP”

    July started with less ice than seen in any previous year in the satellite record.
    I find it hard to see how you charaterise that as a ‘recovery’.

    The amount of ice lost in July will be dependent on local wind patterns as much as ambient temperature. Or are you expecting NEW ice to form in July?!

  285. mlpinaus says:

    Amanda says:
    July 13, 2010 at 2:55 pm
    ” Walt:
    Re: the interesting conundrum you present: as my political philosophy student-boyfriend put it to me: if one ‘sacrifices’ frankly for the sake of heavenly reward, how is it really a sacrifice?”
    Look up “Pascals Wager.” He was a Catholic philosopher, mathematician, physicist, inventor…. one of my heroes in fact. The 80’s computer language was named after him.


  286. Amanda says:
    July 13, 2010 at 3:06 pm

    The West always does. She ain’t backed into no corner as yet. When ye hear bagpipes and the clash of steel, that’s when ye know that we’re for real.

    Been around Noidea too long :>) Dave Matthews and Rush wish they could write his quality of rock lyrics. Seriously, Amanda, it’s not blood sweat and tears time yet. Our credit cards still work, and you’ve not heard a real artillery shell go off nearby yet incoming from someone who doesn’t especially like us LOL!

    Oh, you must get the film “Gloria” somehow. Best scene starts with Gloria asking quietly, “Would you really kill the kid?” and ends with her raising a hand calling “Taxi!” BTW, that is what NYC really looked like in 1979 or so. Mr. Cassavetes taught Martin Scorsese everything he needed to know.

  287. mlpinaus says:
    July 13, 2010 at 4:50 pm

    My favourite Catholic philosopher (please see “Metamorphosis of the Gods”) is a guy named Andre Malraux, and I went through a Teilhard de Chardin phase, too, in 1970-1971, until I sorted out what a communist fraud he was. Almost did the novitiate bit then with the Dun Scotus crowd and abandoning my Anglican/Jewish roots entirely excep they were a bit too “New Age” for me. At present, i still am a maven for a chap named Msgr. Bernard Lonergan, SJ, architect of the present Canadian economy and mentor to Trudeau and Paul Martin, two Canadian PM’s with a knack for macroeconomic strategizing as a result of Msgr. Lonergan’s teachings.

    Blaise Pascal is astounding, and I need to give him a re-read. Sieur de Champlain was a fair mind as well as an explorer and architect of worlds, most notably of the present day Quebec. Dispositionally I am a Cathar. Always have to fight the inner deep blue in myself.

    I actually dealt with Pascal’s Wager and its relevance to AGW some time ago on the DT JD blog. I’m sorely tempted to—but won’t—get into a dedicated theology thread on this blog. It’s antithetical to the spirit of Liberty I’m trying to promote here, but I might change my mind if enough of you were interested – Oz

  288. Amanda says:
    July 13, 2010 at 2:38 pm

    The e-cigs are just another phase of the caterpillar-molting sequence of turning into another caterpillar LOL! Butterflies always seem to end up on someoone’s windshield or mounted under glass, for catepillars it’s even odds at worst. It’s also just that I have so much work to do with other people and those who I am working with now have no tolerance for the stuff, nor for the booze or leafy-twiggy stuff, either, as they’ve their noses ot the grindstone, too.

    Suppose this is a crafts phase. I have to admit that it is compensating for the impact of drying alkyds and polyphenols associated with acrylic paint LOL! My “big pitch” comes up soon.

  289. Old Toad says:

    Ozboy & Amanda were kind enough to invite me over to comment, so here goes. I do worry about Cane Toads, because the thought of your native fauna, both larger and smaller, being wiped out by an introduced creature is alarming.
    Northern Australia has/had the greatest assortment of Frogs and Toads on the planet, and the thought of any one of these beautiful amphibians being lost, distresses me no end.
    On an entirely different note, listening to BBC World Service last night my other obsession (apart from the Moonbat) China, came up.
    Obama is apparently, going to build a high-speed rail network in the USA, but at the same China is going to build one FIFTEEN TIMES bigger !
    Trains will travel all the way to Singapore at over 300 kms an hour, yet where is our ‘investment’ going? Yes, into things like ‘carbon capture’ (joke), wind turbines and solar panels and guess who’s going to make them for us ?
    China is pulling so far ahead that the term ‘third world’ will soon apply to us, and don’t give me that crap about ‘unelected government’, because no-one voted for the ‘Cleggeron’ coalition we’re now burdened with.

    Thanks for dropping by OT. You’ve given me some ideas for a future thread – Oz

  290. Edward. says:


    “All this AGW crappola is going into the dumpster in November here, anyway, IMHO, as the Dems are going to get slaughtered ”

    About bloody time!


    Oz, thanks for the Mack post, truly prophetic, have a look at this:

    New Labour’s mendacious social engineering POLICY to purposefully change the ethnic demographic in Britain is veritably coming to fruition, it is not a joke – Mack was spot on.


  291. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Old Toad says:
    July 13, 2010 at 5:41 pm

    “the thought of any one of these beautiful amphibians being lost, distresses me no end”.

    Hi OT,
    I do appreciate your love of these creatures, but we can’t all share these feelings. In the 70s I visited a National Park on the Cobourg Peninsular northeast of Darwin. I was a guest in the Ranger’s house and there experienced my only close encounters of the froggy kind.

    At night the fleuro strip lighting attracted the most horrendous swarm of insects I’ve ever seen – moths as big as sparrows, huge stick insects, bugs and beetles that clattered about the windows. The smallest gnats got through the mesh screens and swirled in little clouds about the lights.

    Did you know frogs are real smart? They followed this smorgasbord of tasty treats and we could watch frogs of every size and shape dining at their leisure on the window glass. Some smaller frogs actually lived on the walls inside the house munching on the gnats, and as the walls were all painted some Govt issue battleship grey paint, the little frogs all changed their colour to match the paint.

    They became the bane of my existence as a walk up the central hallway usually meant one of these little buggers would plop on the back of your neck or the side of your face. It gave me the horrors. But they weren’t as confronting as the huge green frogs that had made their permanent home in the toilet bowls. It took me years to get out of the habit of checking every toilet I ever used to find any resident wildlife…LOL

    Even worse was the fact that the frogs, in turn, attracted the snakes.

    At the time I lived in the urban jungle of downtown Sydney and never noticed the traffic noise, but my weeks on Cobourg were rendered sleepless by hearing the tortured shrieks of frogs being “got at” by the pythons and various other reptilian predators.

    Now OT, me ol’ pal, if this blog ever goes in the direction of chatting about crocodiles, sharks, buffalo, dingoes or feral pigs I have lots of chat material about those days in the tropical north, but those experiences of your froggy world, made me see them as somewhat less than my favourite of All Creatures Great and Small.

    Still, I’d hate to see those toads take over.

  292. Edward. says:

    Old Toad says:
    July 13, 2010 at 5:41 pm

    The Chinese influence in Indo-China is massive, they virtually run Burma (Myanmar) just one look at the goods pouring into Thailand through Mai Sai is a revelation, there is talk of a massive new damn on the Mekong, involving the Thais and Laos, built with guess what? Yes Chinese money and expertise, also a major new trans-highway linking China with Bangkok, the Chinese built (still building) the Sky Train in the Thai capital and Chinese goods flood the markets of every Thai city/Laos/Vietnamese town, the whole geographical area is their (China’s) fiefdom.
    They want to reach further down into Malaysia and to Singapore, hence the railway, I have to admit they think on a grand scale.
    Yes we in the western world (Europe) are going to be left behind, our battle will be with Islam not China.


  293. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Edward. says:
    July 13, 2010 at 8:05 pm

    “They want to reach further down into Malaysia and to Singapore…..”

    Keep going Ed, a lot further south. To Australia. Their own debt-captive quarry for iron ore, coal etc etc etc. Figures out the other day revealed 30% of all high-end real estate sales went to non-resident Chinese. That doesn’t count the resident ones.

    Over 95% of Oz business is foreign-owned, much of it Asian, but UK & US interests are well represented.

    What the Japanese couldn’t achieve by military force, the Chinese are mopping up nicely, with nary a shot fired.

  294. Locusts says:

    edward and blackswan

    completely agree, they are creating a new empire that will dwarf those that have gone before.

  295. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Hi Locusts,

    Funny how it’s only the infrastructure that truly remains of long lost civilizations.

    All the vanished butchered bulls of the Roman Forum and other sacrificial offerings of the ancients are patronizingly dismissed as the ignorant superstitions of “uncivilized” people.

    But we still stand in wonder at the ingenuity, vision, engineering, industry and wealth that tangible evidence such as the pyramids, Great Wall, Forbidden City, Roman viaducts, temples, bridges and roads reveal about those “ignorant” ancients.

    We can only wonder what historians will make of the folly of AGW and the squandered wealth of the 1st World, as our infrastructure crumbles and decays and we disappear up our own fundamental orifice.

  296. NoIdea says:

    Hello, Izen.

    That particular line was an interesting one, the air warms the sun; While I agree that some of the EMF spectrum that leaves Earth, (from atmosphere or land or sea) will make it out that far (to infinity and beyond!) I am not sure that any of the energy per se will make it to the sun. There is an awful lot of stuff happening near the Sun ;( and not so near!) I am not convinced that much EMF of any kind would actually make it to warm the Sun its self. Think of all the incredible energies involved; think how much energy from the Sun does not reach the Earth due to our comparatively feeble magnetic field (and the atmosphere!), imagine that feeble IR EMF emitted from our atmosphere dispersed and diluted as it struggles across the vast distance to the Sun, those small signals from earth will be swamped by Solar winds or the vast flaming corona that engulfs old Sol, throwing out lots of stuff all the time. The energy density levels close to the sun may deny ingress by such feeble effects as air heat from Earth. Even without considering optical distortion effects or the effects of “local fluff” see

    It seems that the forces of the emissions from the Sun are too great and there is little chance anything will make it back to the Sun from Earth.

    “And the air warms the land and sea even when it is cooler than the land and sea because it is still ‘warmer’ than a vacuum.”

    Ok, I agree that everything with a temperature above absolute zero, must emit/absorb, however, the air does not warm up or cool down the sea and land, as much as they warm up or cool down the air via radiation, conduction and mostly convection.
    Please feel free to correct any elementary errors I have made.

    Will the penny ever drop for you Nemesis?
    Haven’t you heard? The dyke has burst …


  297. orkneylad says:

    Why a Cold Body Cannot Heat A Warm Body by Claes Johnson, Swedish professor of applied mathematics

    Like water, thermal energy always flows downhill, i.e., it spontaneously degrades if given an avenue for transfer and exhausts itself in the process. Recollecting this energy and making it concentrated again demands an outside agency with energy of its own. So if back-radiation does transfer heat to the very body that is radiating this energy, this may be proof of God’s existence. For it would truly be a miracle.

    Recall that backradiation from atmospheric greenhouse CO2 is the scientific corner-stone of IPCC climate alarmism, supported by in particular the Royal Society and the Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences. This corner-stone is unphysical and purely fictional.

    the rest here:

  298. Locusts says:


    I can’t imagine that future Muslim historians would be terribly interested in anything that they uncovered in Britain in their future findings.

    Rome’s classical remains to the untutored are probably incredibly dull. English people can appreciate them no matter what their education, just as they’re better than the duller Roman wall on display in Gloucester city centre. You’re right about butchered, those buildings were looted for their marble to create new buildings, including, if i’m not mistaken, the fancy bit of the Vatican City.

    The Chinese are experts, the Forbidden City is not very old at all, neither are most of China’s buildings, having been destroyed and rebuilt with the arrival of each dynasty, the most recent whitewashing being the Cultural Revolution. The new arrivals obliterate the old, throwing everything down the memory hole, and start with (a) fresh slate/wood/marble/ideology.

    Someone quoted Chairman Mao to me the other day, and I thought, nicely phrased, but highly unlikely to be an original thought. Just repackaged and presented as gospel, yet with barely a nod to the original inspiration.

    We seem to have done something similar in England, where we have a pathological disdain for anything created prior to the ’60s decolonization.

    If we can’t even remember what we have achieved 50 years after the event, it’s doubtful that future inhabitants of England will be able to do a better job. Most likely, they’ll be more interested in denigrating any achievements that we did make. As we do that already, the transition from the now to the future will likely be smoother than most.

    Well… maybe Ironbridge will be preserved, how quaint, a bridge made of iron that you can’t even drive over.

  299. izen says:

    orkneylad says:
    July 14, 2010 at 12:19 am
    “Why a Cold Body Cannot Heat A Warm Body by Claes Johnson, Swedish professor of applied mathematics”

    Complete nonsense.
    If true, it would be impossible to see yourself in a mirror!

  300. Amanda says:


    Fascinating tales of the Mysterious Beyond.

    Better change my avatar again, what?

  301. Amanda says:

    Teilhard de Chardin

    same chap as was implicated in the Piltdown Man hoax? That’s all I know about him.

    I used to live rather near the site of the hoax (‘finds’) in Sussex. Today there’s a pub quite close to the spot, with appropriate name and boggle-eyed fossil-man on the pub sign. It was Charles Dawson wot did it, of course. Anyone interested should get a copy of John Evangelist Walsh’s book on the subject (unfortunately out of print). Beautifully written and absolutely rivetting. The sort of book I would have liked to have written myself.

  302. orkneylad says:

    @izen “If true, it would be impossible to see yourself in a mirror!”

    Explain please?


  303. Amanda says:
    July 14, 2010 at 2:01 am

    Teilhard de Chardin and the Dun Sotus crowd of the time were one of the many, many quasi-stealth Communist pushes to “convert” vices like gluttony, greed, lust, avarice, drunkenness, jealousy, sloth, murder and anger into socialist virtues, and to make of the Catholic Church yet another department of Stalin’s praesidium. Didn’t work until Vatican II, and that is getting the deep six too, in stages, because IT doesn’t work now either. The other fraud de Chardin was associated with was trying, like his fellow travelers, the Nazis, to find a place other than Africa for the origins of humankind. That was a disaster, too, much worse than the Piltdown fraud. I was raised Protestant, but most of my relatives are Catholic; Dad and Mom did such a job of keeping us kids away from Catholic relatives I still do not know half of them yet. I spoke with one overseas, cousin David, on the MARS network during Nam who was at Dad’s house and he snatched the phone out his hand at the other end; if I wanted to play with Catholic kids, I had to sneak around.

    We just heard the local bishop issue the final verdict on closing over 40 parishes and their associated Catholic churches in Syracuse. I can’t say it in the USA, but an Oz blog is okay to do so: they are closing them not only because of the disappearance of parishioners who have moved on up the food chain to more prosperous regions, but mainly because Catholic Family Services is being bankrupted by Protestant dole scroungers who the Catholic Church cannot refuse services to as the Church here takes Federal money. I have no stats in front of me, but the working families in my building joke about it all the time: you can go to the downtown CFS office and fully 80% of its applicants for housing, food, clothing and medical assistance are Protestant.

    The main two reasons the USA has homeless are A) that homeless shelters are really divorce shelters or on the female side, having-kids-for-money schemes gone wrong, and B) there is no Baptist nor fundamentalist Christian family services nor formal communal family support structure as the Lutherans and Mormons have.

    Why a third of homeless are vets is that if you are a vet and you do not buy into liberation leftist Oliver Stone ratsh*t lies about how communist quasi-theology has moral superiority over our values, they won’t help you, period, full stop. The number one priority of the leftist scum who aided and abetted the enemy during Viet Nam was to gain employment positions with the Department of Veterans Affairs and to set its policies. Half are still there, a portion of those ragbags are in prison, and I think the new director has everything under control now.

    I have almost $750,000 US in VA home loan guarantees at my disposal, and I have as yet to use them. The VA medical folks are champions, though. Hawkeye Pierces all, IMHO. They work for peanuts and love (and have huge private practices because real Americans like VA and former military doc’s too).

  304. orkneylad says:
    July 14, 2010 at 2:51 am

    When I read the bit about cool creating warm, I’m sorry, I just lost it. I have worked in applied thermodynamics for 31 years, and if it were even remotely possible for cold to migrate to warm, I would be a happy proprietor of a GD unicorn farm. If a mechanical engineer or air conditioning contractor were lurking here, he would say the sources Passive Aggressive fabian_solutions references were completely out of their effing minds.

    Please, Tooth Fairy and Cthulhu, grant us cold which migrates to heat, and which generates warmth! If I could box that function in a machine, I would be a squillionaire overnight. Every trucker with a load of frozen fish in 100 degrees F would buy at least ten of those boxes.

  305. Izen, fess up. You’re female aren’t you?

  306. Amerloque says:

    Hello Ours Sans Drame ! (grin)
    on July 13, 2010 at 5:14 pm

    We should always remember that André Malraux spent quite a bit of time in the slammer in 1923/24 for illegal traffic in Khmer antiques. (grin)

    /// Dispositionally I am a Cathar. ///

    Ah-hah ! “Perfect” ! (grin)

    Now, when push comes to shove in AGW, will “God know his own “? (wider grin)

    E tu, mon vilatge,
    Sègle après sègle bastit,
    De sang e de carn d’òmes,
    Sègles per sègles noirit.

    Amerloque 20100713 18h45

  307. Liquid oxygen is made using a thingie called the Hilsch tube, which is what they call a centripetal accelerator (technically there is no such thing as centrifugal force, it is just unidirection centripetal acceleration diverted into a curve), which separates cold (lesser-vibrating) molecules of a gas or liquid from hot (higher kinetic energy potential) molecules through tangential introduction of a gas or liquid at velocity into a cylinder forming a contained cyclonic motion, and hot molecules move to the outside as they have a higher relative mass, and cooler moves to the center as it has a lower relative mass, even though it may have a higher density, which is why Hilsch tubes weren’t invented until the 1930’s LOL!

    Gargle Hilsch tube. They are also called venturi chillers. If you need spot -150 degrees C cold using just an air compressor for (usually) critical printed circuit card manufacture, you use a Hilsch tube.

    Other than that, Bryony Gordon is the only unicorm I have any use for (she once wrote a cute thing about when she was a little girl, she wanted to grow up to be a unicorn).

  308. Hilsch tubes were how th eJerries made LOX (nothing to do with bagels and slamon LOL) for their mobile V2 launch systems which made th ebattle for the Bridge at Remagen and at Arnhem such hell, and of course made of London a deathtrap, too.

    Worse thing about V-2’s is you couldn’t hear them coming in, ss they traveled faster than sound. Uncle Sonny remembered them from the battle for the bridge at Remagen.

  309. Amerloque says:

    Hi Old Toad says:
    On July 13, 2010 at 5:41 pm

    /// On an entirely different note, listening to BBC World Service last night my other obsession (apart from the Moonbat) China, came up.///

    You might want to Wiki “Blue Team”. There are quite a few contacts to be made, à la Eric Ambler. (grin)

    Amerloque 20100713 19h35

  310. Amerloque says:
    July 14, 2010 at 3:07 am

    Probably not. He didn’t during the Holocaust, and he didn’t during Viet Nam.

    This is fine. My approach to life is that of Bar Kochba who when he went in to fight the Romans for the last time, cried out “Oh Lord, be ye neither for nor against me!” I’ll fight my own battles, thanks, and buy the first round for the angels when I lose. If there is no afterlife, this is fine, too. So far, I have been paid out here. I’ve not seen it work differently for others either. The problem with life is unfortunately, it does make sense LOL!

  311. Blackswan Tasmania says:
    July 13, 2010 at 8:02 pm


  312. Blackswan Tasmania says:
    July 13, 2010 at 8:02 pm

    No, you must kiss the five-kilo frogs and giant hairy, purple-venom-dripping spiders, they are our friends!

  313. Ever play frogball with a canoe oar?

  314. Amerloque says:

    Hi Bear !
    on July 14, 2010 at 3:18 am

    /// My approach to life is that of Bar Kochba who when he went in to fight the Romans for the last time, cried out “Oh Lord, be ye neither for nor against me!” I’ll fight my own battles, thanks, and buy the first round for the angels when I lose. If there is no afterlife, this is fine, too. ///

    An admirable sentiment ! (grin)

    Btw,I read somewhere that this “speech”, mightily paraphrased, was plagarized by John Milius when he wrote Conan the Barbarian”, for the scene wherein Conan girded for the ultimate battle.

    Amerloque 20100713 19h45

  315. Amanda says:

    Ever play frogball with a canoe oar?

    No, do you have to wear a helmet?

  316. crownarmourer says:

    Walt you should have some heat relief soon we are currently testing your weather first for quality control, the temperature was a nice a 75 this morning after some really amazing monsoonal downpours. We are down by 10F from last week.

  317. orkneylad says:

    Walt says:
    July 14, 2010 at 3:01 am

    “When I read the bit about cool creating warm, I’m sorry, I just lost it. I have worked in applied thermodynamics for 31 years, and if it were even remotely possible for cold to migrate to warm, I would be a happy proprietor of a GD unicorn farm.”

    Well yes, I agree with you….unless I’ve gone completely moon-mad, I read that article as confirming this view. After a couple of re-reads, it still appears to support this……am I confused?

    [I still await izen’s explanation of why this would make viewing oneself in a mirror impossible…….maybe he/she’s remembered Maxwell’s Equations in the meantime & has acquired an inkling as to how the electro-magnetic spectrum-wave operates?]

    Yours bemused,
    OL 🙂

  318. Edward. says:

    It is cheese eating French surrender monkey’s day.
    La quatorze Julliet, la fete Federation, vive la Republique!

    Les hommes de la France, nous célébrons avec honneur votre contribution courageuse et négligeable pour la guerre mais souvenez-vous de Vichy.

    We remember Mers-el-Kebir a sad day but necessary.


  319. Amanda says:

    Bryony Gordon is the only unicorm I have any use for (she once wrote a cute thing about when she was a little girl, she wanted to grow up to be a unicorn).>/i>

    Yeah, but you have to admit Walt, that’s pretty pathetic. I mean really. I was never that wet even as a knee-clasper.

  320. Amanda says:

    Sorry, that last sentence sounds like something out of Crown’s garden pron, involving the water features!

  321. Amanda says:

    Why a third of homeless are vets is that if you are a vet and you do not buy into liberation leftist Oliver Stone ratsh*t lies about how communist quasi-theology has moral superiority over our values, they won’t help you, period, full stop

    Good grief, that’s appalling.

  322. crownarmourer says:

    I’m just glad Bryony Gordon did not go to Freudian Psychiatrist on the whole Unicorn thing gosh on knows what they would have made of that one.

  323. izen says:

    @ orkneylad says:
    July 14, 2010 at 2:51 am
    “Explain please?”


    Okay, the first statement –
    “Like water, thermal energy always flows downhill.”

    Thermal energy flows in any direction it can. The NET effect is that energy distributions equalise because as a statistical inevitability more energy flows from the high energy region to the low than from the low to the high.
    = second law of thermodynamics.
    There is no ‘preferred’ directionality or ‘proscribed’ direction imposed by the unequal energy distribution, the net flow is made up of all possible flows in any direction.

    The mirror is colder than a human, but that does not mean that energy (photons in this case) is prevented from traveling from the mirror (cold) to the eye (hot).

    Take a alternative example, a 100w tungsten light bulb – old tech now…-grin-
    And a toaster with the spiral metal heating elements.
    Obviously the light bulb is hotter than the toaster, its glowing white, the toaster only red.
    Does ANYBODY think the toaster is then incapable of making the bulb hotter if bulb was inside the toaster?!

    I have met up with this piffle before, and the objection has been raised that the toaster may be a 300w unit and is therefore expending more energy than the bulb….
    okay turn the toaster down, lower the voltage until its only consuming 50w – does it suddenly stop heating the bulb as its output drops below 100w?

    Its depressing that sometimes people uncritically accept this poppycock because it appears to confirm a pre-existing dogma.
    But whats even more depressing is that people with some claim to scientific insight contrapt this balderdash into a supposed scientific argument.

  324. izen says:

    @ noidea –
    “Think of all the incredible energies involved; think how much energy from the Sun does not reach the Earth due to our comparatively feeble magnetic field (and the atmosphere!), imagine that feeble IR EMF emitted from our atmosphere dispersed and diluted as it struggles across the vast distance to the Sun, those small signals from earth will be swamped by Solar winds or the vast flaming corona that engulfs old Sol, throwing out lots of stuff all the time. The energy density levels close to the sun may deny ingress by such feeble effects as air heat from Earth.”

    I invoke the FIRST LAW….-grin-

    Energy cannot be created or destroyed.
    (it is generally necessary to add the caveat that it is interchangeable with mass via Einstein’s equation to avoid the pedants…)

    Those few sea blue photons and the rather more numerous IR photons that do make it to the sun can’t just vanish.
    They have to interact with something. As a rule its with electrons and other charged particles, thats the basic interaction that defines our world, photons carry energy and alter the state of charged mass.

    You may be right that the photons will interact with the solar wind, but consider, if it did react significantly with photons it would be opaque and we would see the emissions from the solar wind rather than the surface of the sun.

    What we do define as the surface of the sun is where the sun does become opaque in the spectrum we use to view it.

    The very small amount of energy radiated from the Earth that reaches the vicinity of the sun has to end up somewhere. Much of it MAY warm the outer solar atmosphere that is being continually shed. But if photons can make it OUT from the observed surface, then photons can also make it IN to that surface. There is no preferred or proscribed direction imposed by the local energy gradient. The gradient determines the net flow, not an exclusive vector.

    And that is the SECOND LAW…..

  325. Walt O'Brien says:

    Amanda says:
    July 14, 2010 at 6:15 am

    Check it out sometime. Stop by the VA to have a look around. talk to a veteran sometime below the rank of staff sergeant.

    Crownarmourer, I think if I child said they wanted to be a unicorn when they grew up today, they would be referred to counseling.

    Edward. says:
    July 14, 2010 at 5:58 am

    Let’s do Toulons all over again, just for practice et pour encourager les autres.

  326. Walt O'Brien says:

    Amanda says:
    July 14, 2010 at 3:39 am

    No, just the frogs. Happy Bastille Day ! LOL! (Isn’t that tomorrow?)

  327. Edward. says:

    This from the Air vent, no explanations necessary.

    “Ten reasons why we can’t trust the committees on climategate « the Air Vent”

    10 – No effort was made to examine the true issues and avoid the non-issues.
    9 – Committee members were often insiders with direct benefit from AGW global warming policy.
    8 – Government had too much to loose by a truthful finding.
    7 – No comprehensive effort was made to put ‘hide the decline’ or other emails in context.
    6 – Openness and transparency of the review process was blocked.
    5 – Efforts to question scientists were minimal at best and completely undocumented in most cases.
    4 – The accused UEA was allowed behind the scenes to establish which papers and issues were in question.
    3 – None of the critics who understood the problem were questioned.
    2 – No forensic efforts were made to determine whether emails were in fact deleted.
    1 – They got the wrong answer.

    Think that sums it up nicely.


  328. Walt O'Brien says:

    Ozboy, relative to your prior post, I am still enthralled by the concept of makaing of my site the of the Commonwealth but with membership requiring references and credit reports etc. There is no such bloody thing now. The Commonwealth Secretqariat is a grants and free money dispensary for band-aid issues only. Anyone not talking communist greentard psychobabble when referencing the Commonwealth Secretariat there will be cheerfully shot at the base of the neck in the basement of #2 Dzherzinsky Square, if apprehended.

    I think the individual countries would beat a path to our door if we did that. You want money to run this blogsite, that is Option #1. I’ll ante up if I have a co-worker. As far as I am concerned, today’s Chinese credit rating delisting of the West is the death of AGW for all time, even if there was anything to the “science” which there isn’t.

    Um, why don’t you sell positions in this blogspace to the posters here now, come to that? Izen/Izal can be doorperson and coffee/tea Gunga Din. Or Gunga Dim. Or Gungatard.

  329. I think also I need to get one of Scud1’s Smashy Barsteward Keyboard of Death computer keyboards where you can hit the one foot wide keys with your forehead or large wooden mallets when you are angry. It’s been Monday on a Tuesday all day.

  330. orkneylad says:

    The mirror is colder than a human, but that does not mean that energy (photons in this case) is prevented from traveling from the mirror (cold) to the eye (hot).

    Mirrors work because they are metallic [and good conductors] which means an abundance of mobile electrons. Since there are so many of them they respond VERY quickly to applied electromagnetic fields and they do it in such as way as to counteract the applied field. In other words, they generate their own electromagnetic fields & we see the result as a reflected wave.

    Mirrors only work for certain range of frequency/wavelength. It doens’t work at the ultraviolet region. This has to do with the frequency (plasma frequency) in which free charge in the conductor responds to oscillation (light). Below this frequency, the electron can respond fast enough that it generates its own electro-magnetic wave to damp out any propagation in the metal surface.

    Electro-magentic radiation [in the viewable light spectrum] has nothing to do with ‘heat’ in this instance…….try heating/cooling a mirror and see what happens.

    Its depressing that sometimes people uncritically accept this poppycock because it appears to confirm a pre-existing dogma.
    But whats even more depressing is that people with some claim to scientific insight contrapt this balderdash into a supposed scientific argument.

    Hey, calm the f*ck down…….lol…….I believe NOTHING and posted the link because I thought it was interesting…..I strongly object to being called ‘uncritical’…’ve hurt my feelings & I’m gonna cry. 😉

  331. Amerloque says:
    July 14, 2010 at 3:25 am

    I fink it was Onan the Librarian who said that, too, over in the pron section.

  332. Izen_solutions:

    This strip is especially for you:

    ROTFLMFAO – brilliant! Keep ’em coming – Oz

  333. NoIdea says:

    @Izen 7:21 am –

    I refer you to my reply regarding the first law on a previous thread

    And how the realclimate site deals with it, I repeat a small part of my reply.
    “So for them to vomit out this putrid stinking pile of puke so that others may lap it up and regurgitate it fills me with horror. Whoever wrote this tripe also seems to have a problem with long established science facts.”
    You will find it at 7:40pm July 8, 2010
    Let us get the first law agreed on and defined, before we move on to another favorite the 2nd –grin-
    Does my grasp of the first law resonate just a tadge more with yours and reality than that of realclimate?

    Ps a tune

  334. scud1 says:

    Excellent Walt.

  335. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Morning all,

    And I didn’t even get to the photos the Ranger showed me of a 12ft tree snake wrapped around the toilet cistern inside the house when he groggily stumbled in there in the dark one morning. Sheesh……if that had happened to me, I’d still be cleaning up after myself…LOL

    If you can assure me that your cute avatar will NOT leap off the screen and attach itself to my face, then there’s no need to change.

  336. Old Toad says:

    Evening all. Thanks for your comments on Frogs and China.
    No, stick with that Avatar, Amanda.
    Exciting day on JD’s blog with Mack & RR tearing into the big beast Moonbat (freewales). By this evening he was a little tiddly and was making stupid comments like “Gore backs his work with FACTUAL reports unlike a certain hack called Monckton”.
    Now that Gore is a laughing stock it’s not the best time to quote him.
    I’ve advised George to get some sleep, he’s got a heavy day tomorrow chairing this debate with Fred Pearce and Steve McIntyre.

  337. izen says:

    @ noidea –
    “Let us get the first law agreed on and defined, before we move on to another favorite the 2nd –grin-
    Does my grasp of the first law resonate just a tadge more with yours and reality than that of realclimate?”

    Yes I saw your response originally, but while I think I see the technical assumptions that made you reject the Realclimate exposition I am still not sure what about the 1LoT you are referring to re E=mc2.
    Perhaps you could clarify?

    I think I may have a nice analogy for AGW, it was prompted by some earlier discussion about astronomical observations using a small(ish!) reflector that could be carried out into the countryside for better viewing….

    The problem, as everyone recognised, is ‘light pollution’ in urban areas.
    I suspect we are all familiar with travelling on a clear night and seeing on the horizon the glow from a nearby town. Sometimes its possible to see severral towns and cities around the horizon, often with that sodium yellow hue as ‘domes of light’ dotted around the landscape.

    Within a town or city the ambient light usually prevents us noticing that light above, but in a dark alley on a cloudy/misty night the backwash from the lights may make the sky obviously light. Its that effect that makes for poor viewing within cities. Unless the air is extremely clear the back radiation of the urban lights is comparable to the faint starlight you might be trying to see.

    I hope the parallel is evident.
    Surface light will travel directly to space if the air is perfectly transparent.
    But any scattering of the light results in a related proportion being directed back down to the surface. Ambient light levels at the surface increase, shadows are ‘fiiled in’, and the density of photons no longer follows a simple inverse square law.

  338. Amanda says:

    Blackswan: LOL.
    Glad you like my avatar, since it’s one of mine (watercolour pencils).

    Old Toad: Will do. We anurans have to stick together! Just not on Blackswan’s face!

  339. Amanda says:

    Light pollution is I think a serious problem that is not taken seriously enough. I have had great difficulty at times getting to sleep in rooms that can’t be darkened enough; and my best solution so far for getting fresh air in while keeping lamppost light out is plantation shutters, and that’s not a perfect solution (very hard to get fresh air at night while blocking light, and for at least six months of the year in the deep South, you want your windows open).

    Also, you can’t see the night sky properly (if really at all).

    Also, I wonder about the effect on animal life and even plant life, the effect on their own ability to rest and to keep their internal clocks in order.

    Some years ago when the new Anzac Bridge was opened in Sydney, they started lighting up the western side with floodlights so people in the inner western suburbs could get a clearer look (typical government screaming “its” achievement from the rooftops). Unfortunately the illumination of the massive pylons was so great that the Siding Spring Anglo-Australian observatory in Coonabarabran (500 km away!) complained of light interference when making observations low near the eastern horizon.

    Don’t mean to brag, but my local village is named after an aboriginal word meaning “place of the stars”; the night sky is black, and the “white stars fairly blaze at midnight in the cold and frosty sky” – Oz

  340. Pointman says:

    Yo Scud,

    Have you got any good explosions? I’ve had a shitty day and could seriously do with a bit of cheering up mate.


  341. crownarmourer says:

    Battle flag of the confederacy image.

    Ah for those of you who have not been with us long, it’s an old troll back to delude…called fabiandelusions ……a marxist watermelon out and out!! Now it has a nasty new red rose, the rose of a lost cause that placed this country in the mess it is in today..
    Wecome to reality fabian delusions….

    Red Rose image…

    The fact that you have a racist flag robs you of any credibility whatsoever.
    You make me physically sick.

    Tasmanian Devil image

    And the fact that your image starts out green, then turns red, is covered in thorns, then withers and dies when exposed to too much light, says it all.

  342. crownarmourer says:

    ozboy deserves an award for that last one.

  343. Pointman says:

    It’s probably something about this blog, it’s sort of mellow in a quietly perceptive way, but a certain person thinks they can selectively ignore the reasonable but awkward questions of both a scientifically informed poster and the very direct but simple question of another. The amusing thing is, of course, that you assume nobody notices. This isn’t the DT blog. You’re the only noise here, everyone else is signal and the ratio is not in your favour. Your refusals to engage in certain areas are inadvertently loquacious.


  344. Hi Ox & Guys

    I was looking for a post by Mack that I understand you rescued from the immoderation of JD’s DT blog. Any idea where it may have gone, chaps?

    It’s above – click here – Oz

  345. scud1 says:
    July 14, 2010 at 8:25 am

    So then, fascist_extrusions of the dead rose ( I keep thinking about the Red Rose Tea commercials on the Telly when I was small with the chimps in suits in their own little band doing a Frank Sinatra type gig) is not only female, but izen as well?

    Pointman says:
    July 14, 2010 at 10:50 am

    Doesn’t pay to contradict the commissar or rather, commissarette, or zey vill put a bullet at zee base of yer neck, infidel.


    My experiences have been mostly with itsy bitsy spiders of the over a half pound weight variety (do you have diving spiders that nail fish?), but I do like Amanda’s painting. Looks photographic. My bear is absolutely completely quackers and shall become even more so as its brain decomposes, so it may even crawl out of the screen and onto your computer cube desk. It won’t grow though, so a sound thwack with a newspaper should just leave a small red and white furry blob on your desk to hose off. rather like how the commutards got washed off our desks in the UK. One communist regime down, one to go, especially where I live.

    This is how bad commutards have impacted the finances of the Catholic Church in central New York:

    We do not need a new Thirty Years War to destroy our country. All you need is a desperate minority of the unemployable and jobless who skive off charity to ransack the other church systems’ finances LOL! Sigh. It never ends. BTW, there are plenty of Catholic churches not two or three miles beyond the last bus stop going out to the suburbs. We are talking urban churches here.

    Hello, crownarmourer. It is raining and cooling off here, so everything’s fine. I agree with you about ozboy’s comments.

  346. That was Oz and Guys….getting late here…long night detrolling JD’s blog. Glad to see noidea is keeping Izen busy.

  347. Dave,Edinburgh says:

    Reality Returns

    Hi RR, I noted you looking in for Mack’s post, it’s a good bit up:

    Ozboy says:
    July 13, 2010 at 9:46 am

    it’s a hoot, enjoy, Dave.

  348. No need for Sarajevo-style social engineering where I come from. Just shut everything down and move. Communitarian communist urban renewal at its best.

    I think I’ve been to a Roman Catholic mass exactly twice, but I feel like a member of Opus Dei over this Syracuse “roust-em-out” routine. When does the BS stop? Has anyone else ever heard of 40 parishes locking up and moving on at the same time from one town before, except on Sept 1, 1939 in Poland?

  349. crownarmourer says:

    Whats the inside of a church?

  350. Walt O'Brien says:

    crownarmourer says:
    July 14, 2010 at 3:06 pm

    That’s not the point, crownarmourer. This is an entire community gone forever through economic displacement over time. Who’s to say ….forget it.

  351. crownarmourer says:

    Time marches on unfortunately, you can’t bring back the past, London is the same a different community moves in as another moves on up the ladder, Huegenots, Eastern European Jews now Muslims. However the latter will probably stay there as they are welfare addicts.

  352. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Afternoon All,
    Been out and about today…always good to get home.

    Polar Bear Man,
    G’day Walt, if you want to get cranky about Protestant lay-abouts draining RC coffers dry, you’d be apoplectic over what goes on out here (and probably UK as well).

    In the lead-up to Christmas there are always big campaigns to collect toys and gifts for the “less fortunate” of our communities and they usually collect warehouses full, including “hampers” made up of grocery treats and goodies.

    Saint Vinnies, Salvation Army, Red Cross, Anglicare all have their appeals and the generosity of people is always surprising. A very close relative in Sydney lives opposite several Islamic households (all on Welfare and driving the latest cars) and each year Christian charity trucks, one after the other over Christmas week, pull up at these houses and unload heaps of toys and hampers for these families. My relative, always a generous donor to such institutions, rang several charities to ask why goods were given to people who did not believe in Christmas, who called Christians “infidel dogs” and whose imams preached death for non-Muslims.

    She got the expected sort of answer, “all are equal in the sight of the Lord” and “religious discrimination is illegal” stuff, and was incensed especially when the shiny new bikes and toys delivered were never seen again, but repeatedly delivered year after year. A post-Christmas trip to the local markets sees those same recipient women with market stalls flogging shiny new bikes, toys etc.

    Any discussion of such incidents is silenced with howls of xenophobia, racism and discrimination. My elderly rellie, a lifelong worker for charity, no longer participates and now devotes her time and contributions to Legacy, an organisation devoted to the families of war veterans and servicemen.

    The face of our respective nations has changed irrevocably in recent decades, and we won’t see again a world we used to know……

    Sad isn’t it?

  353. Edward. says:

    Blackswan Tasmania says:
    July 14, 2010 at 5:16 pm

    Being steeped in Christian orthodoxy myself, especially when I was a kid, I have a ‘crises of conscience and faith’ over;
    1. Being nicey nicey to people who would trash forever my country and its peoples and call me a filthy infidel (who is the Jonny come lately?!?).
    2. Paedophilia within the clergy, such a (quite appalling inhumanity) breach of trust.
    3. See above and also politicians who are barefaced liars, BLIAR springs to mind.
    4. Terrorist thugs who use religion as a banner, IRA/INLA spring to mind but it could be any of thousands.

    All of these ‘crises’ will send me to hell, because I f…….. . – Better not say really……… .


  354. NoIdea says:

    izen- @ 9:21 am

    No technical assumptions will be harmed (or used) in making this reply.

    The Universal declaration of reality.

    We hold these truths to be self evident, that All laws are created equal, that they are endowed by their reality with certain unalienable facts, that among these are the laws of physics, thermodynamics and the pursuit of the truth.
    To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.

    The First Law of thermodynamics

    The conservation of energy, this states that energy cannot be created or destroyed but can be transformed.
    The first law states in particular that the flow of heat is a form of energy transfer.
    The classical statement of the First Law of Thermodynamics is induced from empirical evidence.
    In open systems, the flow of matter is another energy transfer mechanism, and extra terms must be included in the expression of the first law.
    The First Law clarifies the nature of energy.
    A temperature difference forces a transfer of entropy.

    The Second Law of Thermodynamics

    States that the entropy of an isolated macroscopic system never decreases, or (equivalently) that Perpetual motion machines are impossible.
    Spontaneous natural processes increase entropy overall.

    Heat can spontaneously flow from a higher-temperature region to a lower-temperature region, but not the other way around.

    For clarification on my position re E=mc2 I refer you to the multiple past posts in which I addressed this matter.
    Regarding light pollution, I detest that repugnant sodium glow, the ghastly orange fog of insomnia. I can see over 100 lampposts from my abode, I can rarely see the stars.

    Quote “Surface light will travel directly to space if the air is perfectly transparent.”
    That big IF maybe the problem you have, the sky is blue, except when it is not. It has NEVER been perfectly transparent, it will NEVER be transparent. Sorry to shout but this seems so readily apparent and bleeding obvious that I thought I had best try draw your attention to these FACTS.
    I have tried to keep my post short, I am sure you will agree there are plenty of interesting discussions to be had regarding just these few FACTS. I draw your particular attention to…
    “Heat can spontaneously flow from a higher-temperature region to a lower-temperature region, but not the other way around.”
    Will this help in our quest to define reality?

  355. manonthemoor says:

    Good morning from the UK to all

    My contribution for the day

    Conflict or Co-operation

    Since the changes made by the Daily Telegraph to its online blogging system ie a 3 day shut down and the introduction of DISQUS there has been much reaction and criticism, particularly from the Anti AGW group who favoured the WordPress method of working.
    With much grateful thanks to Ozboy his site has proved an invaluable option to the current DT offering by providing AGW related discussion and information.
    A little later the Rastech site was also set up as a site for those interested in AGW matters.
    I have to emphasise these sites are as I see it now complimentary and all provide a useful forum for AGW matters, in essence three sites are undoubtedly better than one in discussing AGW problems.
    The current status of these sites I describe as follows:-

    DT/DISQUS site
    A pigs porridge of interaction ,spoilt by the reply and paging system, in which important texts get bounced onto page 2 and obscurity, even those generated by James. Some posters continues to use this site, which has the advantage of a previous wide following, they are very brave and must be applauded in their persistence.

    Ozboy site
    Clearly anyone reading this has found the site, which by and large replaces the original DT site in layout, and moderation. In many ways the Oz site is better since more discussion and interaction takes place than previously. The site has been and continues to be a great success, well done and thanks to Oz. The site is open to both supporters and critics of AGW for sensible sometimes robust discussion. It is thought that we have many visitors as well and I would encourage these to join in, ask questions and make their points as well, since education and understanding are the key to solving the AGW challenge.

    Rastech site
    This is the newest site which is still evolving and has two current facets that I recognise:-
    1/ There is an intention to have topic based articles followed by open discussion
    2/ There is an interactive chat room which may be new to some but has so far provided some lively discussions and ideas.
    All those interested in AGW problems are welcome to join in and contribute.

    Finally Rastech has kindly provided a link through to the Ozboy site so bookmarking Rastech provides easy access to Ozboy which is my current working preference.

    Remember three sites are better than one and all visitors have a voice in the discussions, not to mention some marvellous literary posts.


  356. Old Toad says:

    MOTM. re JD Blog.”Some posters continue to use this site as it has the advantage of a previous wide following”.
    The current one has probably reached 500 by now, helped no doubt by a massive troll infestation, but more so by the arrival of the only known member of the genus ‘Selenecheiroptera’ writing under the pseudonym ‘freewales’.

  357. izen says:

    @ Noidea –
    “I draw your particular attention to…
    “Heat can spontaneously flow from a higher-temperature region to a lower-temperature region, but not the other way around.”

    That is a statement about NET flow, not the individual direction of photons.

  358. Locusts says:

    noidea, you complain about the lights, that is nothing, i’ve got a whorehouse lit up in bright neon lights in view of my window!

  359. Pointman says:


    Does that mean your sound pollution is caused by Hormones?


  360. Locusts says:

    haha, you are missing a drum roll there!

  361. NoIdea says:

    Izen 7:47 pm

    Indeed it is, and I refer you back to the second statement in the first law,
    “The first law states in particular that the flow of heat is a form of energy transfer.”
    Nothing created nothing destroyed, equal and opposite, equilibrium and entropy these are key concepts for me. Any description of AGW that does not violate one or more of the basic laws of nature and physics will convert me.
    I have yet to see one; you have yet to explain one.
    Even famous “skeptics” like Dr Spencer seem to hold on to some of the strange anti-physics views that you have been indoctrinated with. He also believes he can cook his stove with a pan of water if he turns his stove down enough.
    Can you boil an egg izen?


  362. Locusts says:

    The idea is, is to not turn the stove on, but cool the surrounding air. The egg will then cook very quickly owing to the resulting temperature difference.

  363. NoIdea says:


    Back to basics.

    In the beginning there was the sun, but not as we know it. After a while, or perhaps many whiles, it gathered its self together so to speak and become a little closer to the warm or hot, (depending on where you are) big thing we see today. Some of the scraps of stuff that became the sun managed to become the dust we consider planets. End of the first lesson, any question?

    As home work I am going to ask you who said this?

    “The law that entropy always increases, holds, I think, the supreme position among the laws of Nature. If someone points out to you that your pet theory of the universe is in disagreement with Maxwell’s equations — then so much the worse for Maxwell’s equations. If it is found to be contradicted by observation — well, these experimentalists do bungle things sometimes. But if your theory is found to be against the second law of thermodynamics I can give you no hope; there is nothing for it but to collapse in deepest humiliation.” — ,_________ The Nature of the Physical World (1927)

    You have when, where and what was said, you just have to find the whom.

    Do you think if we start from the basics perhaps we can find out which part of reality it is that we disagree on?
    To perhaps move on to any other major causes of dissonance that one of us must surely, sorely, suffer?

    Hiya, Locust.

    How long does it take to boil an egg using both fridge and freezer as air chillers?


  364. Amerloque says:

    A bit of news from last week, from the LA Times …

    /// First U.S. offshore wind energy project faces lawsuit

    Environmental groups plan to file suit in federal court, accusing the Obama administration of violating the Endangered Species Act with its approval of the Cape Wind project in Nantucket Sound.


    The plaintiffs, including Public Employees for Environmental Responsibility, the Alliance to Protect Nantucket Sound, Californians for Renewable Energy Inc. and the Texas group Lower Laguna Madre Foundation, argue that the Interior Department failed to adequately assess the wind turbine project for its potential harm to birds and whales migrating off the Massachusetts coast. …/… ///

    Now, if more of the envirowhacko groups were to turn on each other … (grin) …

    Amerloque 20100714 14h00

  365. Amerloque says:

    Hi Old Toad !

    An excellent article … only quoted the first part here …

    —– Are Chinese language centres in Canada culture clubs or spy outposts?

    Officially, Confucius Institutes are the Chinese equivalent of the Alliance Française or Goethe-Institut — the flourishing power’s catch-up response to European countries’ subsidized overseas language schools. At McMaster, students take courses in Chinese language and culture for credit; the Institute also organizes cultural events.
    To China observers and counter-intelligence agents, the runaway expansion of Confucius Institutes represents a threat, both as an arm of Chinese “soft power” abroad and as a potential vehicle for intelligence gathering.
    onfucius Institutes have spread spectacularly, with hundreds sprouting around the world since the program began in 2004. In an interview with the state-run newspaper People’s Daily in March 2009, worldwide Confucius Institute chief Xu Lin said he expects the 500th centre to open this year. Even the governing Office of Chinese Language Council International, also known as Hanban, seems taken aback by its own success. …/… – – – —

    More at

    Amerloque 20100714 14h00

  366. Amerloque says:

    Hi Edward ! Hi Amanda !

    /// It is cheese eating French surrender monkey’s day.
    La quatorze Julliet, la fete Federation … ///
    /// No, just the frogs. Happy Bastille Day ! LOL! (Isn’t that tomorrow?) ///

    – – – –

    Yeah, it’s today, what we Americans call “Bastille Day” and the French themselves call “Fête Nationale”. The most interesting part is all the dances that take place in public squares all over France. For over ten years now, we have made sure to be in the countryside and not in Paris. The “bals populaires” in Paris have been ruined by mindless and primitive African drumming drowning out the traditional French music.

    You don’t really want to be at any of the other festivities in Paris either, since racially-organized gangs from the suburban projects shake down tourists and locals. With violence.

    Thanks to the EUSSR’s open borders, we also have thousands of Rumanian Gypsies who send their kids off to pickpocket everyone, and plead abject poverty when they’re busted. The gov’t and judges sign them up for a bevy of entitlements. They buy a new motor home and Mercedes, and go back to Rumania. They then return after one year (the legal limit) and start all over again, with new, rented children (since the original ones have paid their keep, and have been DNAd anyway after custody).

    About 100 cars are torched per day (!) in France at the best of times. Lasrt year the July13/14 score was 700+. The authorities are not releasing the figures this year, so as to “avoid creating a kind of public contest”. What they really mean is that there are even more than ever, in spite of the ADD-afflicted Sarkozy’s supposed “régime sécuritaire”, which, of course, is total bee ess.

    Probably the most schizophrenic aspect of the entire holiday is the huge military parade on the Champs-Elysées. (sigh) Since Napoleon, French arms haven’t been doing too well … (Digression: the US Leathernecks saved the French Legion in the 1860s … “From the Halls of Montezuma” …).

    /// We remember Mers-el-Kebir a sad day but necessary ///
    Let’s do Toulons all over again, just for practice et pour encourager les autres.///

    Given the dumbing down of the French educational system, those under 40 years of age would probably have no idea of what you are talking about. For them, the “right” lost the war in 1940, you see, just to screw the Front Populaire, and, led by the glorious “left” with the French Communist Party at the fore, the vast majority of French men and women resisted magnificently. Only the French police and National Railway System took care of the Jews, sending them off to Germany, and every town and village, bar none, had a Resistance cell. DeGaulle and Leclerc liberated France and Paris “with the help of the Americans.”

    It’s the official line. It’s a living example of Orwell’s “He who controls the present, controls the past. He who controls the past, controls the future.”

    Mers and Toulon sometimes rankle with older French people who know what they are/were, as does Vichy, but there is no unanimous feeling that Mers was “wrong”, in my experience. Perhaps I’ve simply associated with the “wrong” people. (wide grin)

    Amerloque 20100714 14h31 Paris time (CET)

  367. Locusts says:

    I’m back from reading the first bit of the Chinese language book 低碳阴谋,Low Carbon Plot, and it’s rather unpleasant reading.

    Unfortunately for the author, and us as well if the Government is of the same opinion, he is incapable of separating Western Governments from their subjects/citizens; but on the other hand finds it easy to do this for countries that he sympathizes with.

    Carbon tax 碳关税 is the new imperalistic method to oppress the developing countries and reset the “chess set”. Led by Selectively Protectionist America, aided and abetted by their client state Senile Europe, the Western Countries want nothing more than to ensure the poverty of the poor peoples of the rest of the world and keep all of the wealth to themselves.

    This is a new war, a silent war that must be won at all costs, he didn’t say class struggle but i hope maybe it will come up soon. In short, the West is bad and China, the noble leader and spokesman of the downtrodden 3rd World, needs to wake up and stop being abused.

    Unanimous votes in the senate for protectionist laws are mentioned, but with no mention that it is highly unlikely that more than one of the senators actually read the documents that they were voting on.

    Environmental degradation is real, but global warming is much more doubtful, seems to be the line, which of course most readers here agree with.

    I’ve still got some way to go; I can only hope that he understands western politics in much greater detail than he has so far shown.

  368. Pointman says:

    Locusts July 14, 2010 at 11:01 pm

    At Copenhagen the Chinese fronted for the developing world with their blessing. No carbon quota deal was ever going to be done there. Have a listen to this recording of the heads of states discussing the nitty gritty in closed session. I wonder who decided to leak it …


  369. Walt O'Brien says:

    Blackswan Tasmania says:
    July 14, 2010 at 5:16 pm

    My favourite film is still GW Pabst’s rendering of Die Dreigroschen Oper by Kurt Weill, libretto by the third Lutheran world-destroyer from Augsburg. Nothing has changed since then, except I cannot imagine another Lotte Lenya nor Kurt Weill surfacing in this civilization.

    Whoever thinks the realm of the Protestant world is a safer bet from a pedo standpoint is out of their minds. Catholics get caught and make restitution as they turn their pedos in, eventually. It never happens with Protestant denominations. From an FBI stats point of view, if you play the numbers, your offspring are most likely to be violated by a Baptist Sunday school teacher. If you are south of the Mason Dixon line, you probably know why.

    Anyway, you’re quite right. Any belief systems based on transmitting positive values are all screwed unless you embrace self-lobotomization, so we may as well burn them all down, except we don’t have to, they are doing it all on their own and will do so with more vigour and regularity with the forthcoming next European and now North American Destroy The World Festival.


    US Marines have always been called upon to perform the impossible in defence of the indefensible for 1/10 of the minimum wage for the benefit of those least likely to reciprocate the favour. Sounds like any other ordained ministry, doesn’t it LOL? I am sure G_d would quit his job if he could find a better one; I expect the humour value of the present position compensates somewhat for the otherwise negative factors.

    It is a pity those lovely vessels Admiral Darlan led were lost, as were the Italian fleets at Taranto which those silly aircraft the Fairey Swordfish did for so ably and efficiently. Had the Allies had them at their disposal, Churchill’s fjord drive to Malmo would have succeeded and WW II would have been over by 1942 or 1943. I still don’t understand why the Allies did not trash Sweden both during and after WW II.

    Many thanks to Orkneylad and Noidea for the exposition on thermodynamics which tells this old boiler construction cost estimator that there was never a hope in Hades AGW would ever gain long term traction, as the players on that side of the fence are too effing stooopid. Again, the US Federal policy on carbon trading is now officially and irrevocably revenue-neutralthrough 2025, as per Mr. Obama’s 2011 Budget. The AFGW crowd are so thick they’ve not even a feeble grasp of what that means.

    As other than a yellow (as in “cowardly”) smiley face maskover of a risible 30’s era make-work scheme, AGW is a compleat drowned polar bear LOL! The upside is all these church and governmental worker union pension funds are going to go broke as well as the other leftist “responsible” investment portfolios, as they are the heaviest investors in AGW. That’s official now, folks. The Budget in full can be pulled down from the Website.

  370. Amanda says:

    Amerloque, hello!

    I can always count on someone here to make my hair stand on end. Your account of France did it, all right. I’d heard of the banlieus (sp?) and the car-torchings, but you’ve put that into a broader picture. And it ain’t pretty.

  371. Walt O'Brien says:

    I also somewhat revise my attitude to the EU in general. The reason it goes berserk every 50 years is there is nowhere to run or hide there. It is too small. At least here, if what you have isn’t working out, you can move down the road a piece and start over. Victims of geography, to my mind, are what Europeans are.

  372. Pointman says:

    Amerloque July 14, 2010 at 10:37 pm

    I was in Lille a few years back on Bastille Day. There was a parade consisting of the army, foreign legion (barracks there), fire brigade, police, ambulances and emergency services. A very jolly affair. I noticed a lot of female civilians wearing medals marching as well.

    Afterwards I went for a glass of wine on the pavement café beside the WW 1 memorial “pour les soldats et L’Lilloise …”. The tables were quickly filled up and I was soon joined by an elderly gentleman and two ladies. I asked the ladies had they served because of the medals they wore. No they hadn’t and were soldiers’ widows. They explained to me the French custom of giving medals to the families of soldiers. They also serve too.


  373. Walt O'Brien says:

    I’ve stories to tell about the annual USMC Xmas “Toys for Tots” campaign which are very funny, but I really do not want an angry someone in dress blues at my door this week LOL! The short version is USMC collected Xmas toys do get delivered to the correct people or someone don’t feel so good, capiche?

    It’s as in my favourite Nigel Greene line from one of the dozens of British WW II desert war films made in the 1940’s, 1950’s and 1960’s: “There is not much to recommend the military man, but one of them is his willingness to die for what he believes in.” And the willingness to punch the stuffings out of goofballs, too!

  374. Walt O'Brien says:

    I don’t understand why annual festivals celebrating peace, love and joy usually turn out t0 be total bloodbaths anymore than once can hope to understand why clergymen don’t all morph into “Resident Evil” types for real after a decade or so of that abusive and abused vocation. But then, they do, right? Stalin and Mohammed and the champions of the Thirty Years War and the Troubles come to mind.

  375. Locusts says:

    pointman, internet’s a bit dodge today, i’ll have to save that clip for another day.

    I read all of the articles at the time. It is really great that China is seeing through this crap, as someone who lives over here and has seen a little bit of the ugly side of nationalism, i’m really not a fan of people stirring up anti-another country resentment, however well founded they think the reason might be.

    China is doing so many things that I wish Britain was doing, with one vital exception. No taxation without representation would be a dangerous phrase if it caught on over here.

  376. orkneylad says:

    Richard Lindzen, climate change, and excellent vehicle for a variety of agendas

  377. theendisnighnot says:

    Hi locusts what part of the Middle Kingdom you living? Shanghai myself…….. anyway good article in the DT by Ed West along the lines of “why do lefties believe stupid things” Whilst he doesn’t directly mention this scam i think the cap well and truelly fits! Personally have no problem with them believing stupid things just wish they wouldn’t inflict them on the rest of us who have brains for other reasons than stopping our ears fighting!

  378. theendisnighnot says:

    OT i know but another 12 Nato troops killed in the last couple of days including 3 Brits shot dead in thier beds by an “Afghan soldier” Can someone please explain to me what th hell we or the US are doing in that godforsaken hell hole which history tends to indicate has never been conquered by foreign nationals?? Please don’t think I’m some bleeding heart liberal nothing could be further from the truth i just don’t get why the best of our young men and woman are being killed and being maimed in increasing numbers really don’t get it!

  379. Locusts says:

    Hey there, be careful of those Shanghai girls, they’ll rinse you dry if you give them half a chance! I’m in the Jing at the at the moment, i’ll have to check out that article. If you can read chinese and you are interested in that book it has just come out so should be at the front of most book stores, has a black and white cover and is written by 勾红洋。 The subtitle is, and i really should have read this before, 中国与欧美的生死之战。 Or the Life and Death War Between China and the West.

  380. Amerloque says:

    Hello Bear !
    on July 15, 2010 at 12:21 am

    /// Die Dreigroschen Oper by Kurt Weil ///

    My wife and I were talking about this just last week. A friend had sent a German DVD of the “musical … why is the title of this piece in French “L’Opéra de quat’sous” and not “trois” ?! There must be a good reason, somewhere … Mackie le Surineur is OK, but “threepenny” ?! Whistler (he of the Portrait of Mom) painted “La Soupe à Trois Sous”. From the photo it looks like watery gruel in a gruesome setting. That can’t be it.

    /// I still don’t understand why the Allies did not trash Sweden both during and after WW II. ///

    Yes, I have asked myself the same question many times. My initial feeling is/was that Swedes are themselves wandering, errant Germans. Perhaps it’s only an accident of geography, a few miles of cold water that prevent the Swedes from being “true” Germans indeed.

    The historical answer seems to be that the Swedes were exporting things to all belligerents in WWII. Ball bearings to Germany, for example, at the beginning of the war. They also apparently exported tools for same, and the Germans built a factory or two in Schweinfurt, which were all subsequently bombed in at least two air raids immortalized by Hollywood (sigh). The usual answer seems to be that a neutral country was needed, one that wasn’t landlocked like Switzerland.

    Another reason of course, might simply be the opacity / difficulty of the Swedish language. Few non-native speakers (the Finns are right up there, though, since those massive population shifts postwar, thanks to Stalin’s Thumb at Petsamo and the “loss” to the Finns of their epic Kalevala). Without speaking the language, how can one understand the people(s) of a given country ? Sure, the Swedes speak German and French and English and Italian and whatever, yet for them those are foreign languages. From what I’ve seen of Bergman films and Nobel committee decisions, there is quite a bit that I certainly don’t understand about Swedes. It’s just not coming through in the soundtracks/subtitles: they seem abrupt and superficial.

    The old saying goes “One counts, swears and prays in one’s native language”. I’ve seen young Swedes pray in an Elmer Gantrylike fashion. We go every year to the Christmas Market at the Swedish Church here in Paris to pick up some rollmops and various Swedish cheeses that rarely export to Paris. (grin) We attend the religious service and then go out into the market. There is the same rhythm to praying as there is in the Bergman films I’ve seen. Mme Amerloque makes a point of wearing the Faroe Islands handknit sweater I gave her forty or so years ago. When the Swedes see that, they speak to her in (what we infer is) Swedish. Only Swedish is spoken at the Marché de Noel, so when the blonde in traditional costume counts, she does so in Swedish. No one has sworn at us in Swedish, yet.

    Perhaps one or more of the readers here can throw some light on the subject ?

    Amerloque 20100714 18h00 Paris time (CET)

  381. Pointman says:

    theendisnighnot July 15, 2010 at 2:11 am

    90% of the world supply of Opium comes from Afghanistan, 70% of that from a place called Helmand province. It’s really a drug war.


  382. Amerloque says:

    Hello Amanda !
    on July 15, 2010 at 12:24 am

    /// I can always count on someone here to make my hair stand on end. Your account of France did it, all right. I’d heard of the banlieus (sp?) and the car-torchings, but you’ve put that into a broader picture. And it ain’t pretty. ///

    Most of what I wrote is about Paris and the Paris region, not all of France ! All big cities have their no-go regions, but Paris has become pretty hopeless if one is a real person. (sigh) Out in the countryside, Bastille Day is fantastique !

    Amerloque 20100714 18h05 Paris time (CET)

  383. Amerloque says:

    Hi Pointman !

    Lille is not Paris. (grin) The moules are excellent !

    /// The tables were quickly filled up and I was soon joined by an elderly gentleman and two ladies. I asked the ladies had they served because of the medals they wore. No they hadn’t and were soldiers’ widows. They explained to me the French custom of giving medals to the families of soldiers. They also serve too. ///

    The keyword is “elderly”. (grin) There is a huge generation gap between the elderly and the current crop of kids. Like everywhere in the world, I suppose. (sigh) The “elderly” generation generally like Americans and appreciate the sacrifices. At least, all but the politicos.

    Amerloque 20100714 18h120 Paris time (CET)

  384. Amanda says:

    Pointman, I hope your crummy day is well and truly over and that this blog cheered you up somewhat. I’ve certainly been enjoying it myself.

  385. Amanda says:


    Oh, sorry, I stand corrected — je comprends parfaitement, aber ich war schlampig.

    Paris is, of course, not France, any more than London is England. Thank god.

  386. theendisnighnot says:

    Pointman….. so the best of our young people are dying so that the worst of our societies can continue to poisen themselves or we can prevent them killing themselves of their own free will! Makes perfect sense!

  387. Edward. says:

    orkneylad says:
    July 14, 2010 at 10:55 pm
    Excellent OL, it will be ‘sewn on barren ground’ however:>)


    Hi Amerloque,

    Seems France is having many problems with ‘foreign legion’ who fight France not for the Patrie. If you don’t teach history, you are finished as a nation, history engenders a pride in National identity.

    I’d be willing to bet that the Israelis still teach history to their children. Additionally history is, ‘the sum total of man’s mistakes’………… if we had read our history properly, we would have stayed well clear of Iraq and Afghanistan in the last 10 years but then Blair and Bush didn’t even know their geography (let alone a basic historical knowledge of the region/s) and that’s another story!

    So history is vital for common sense and identity.


  388. Pointman says:

    theendisnighnot July 15, 2010 at 2:46 am

    As much as any war.


  389. Pointman says:

    Amanda July 15, 2010 at 2:34 am

    Best to steer clear of that word schlampig. It has a variety of meanings!


  390. Amanda says:


    Oh dear. The faux pas build up.

    Thanks very much. I suppose I shouldn’t mention Schwanz either.

  391. crownarmourer says:

    Walt as for Sweden the Norwegians have never forgiven them for allowing German troops to use Swedish territory to invade middle and Northern Norway, if this has had not been allowed the allies may have been able to hold this from the Germans a lot longer. Dividing attention away from the battle of France.

  392. Amerloque says:

    Hi Edward !
    on July 15, 2010 at 2:47 am

    ///Seems France is having many problems with ‘foreign legion’ who fight France not for the Patrie. If you don’t teach history, you are finished as a nation, history engenders a pride in National identity.///

    Oh, yes. I would spend quite a bit of time crossing the eyes and dotting the tees in the history class homework my Franco-American kids had at their French (private, unisex) schools. One of the better tools we used was the US TV series “The Young Indiana Jones”. Mrs Amerloque and I would prepare each session and the kids would see it in both French and English. Long hours of discussion followed. It was fascinating to see the different approaches Mrs A and I used. Americans like me (or, at least of my generation) feel that “we teach kids how to think, for life), while the French like Mrs A believe that education is “the transmission of knowledge” (la transmission du savoir).

    Now, the EUSSR and the bureaucrats have lobotomized the educational system.

    A major change took place a couple of years ago. French and German students are now using a ___common history textbook___, written by a “select committee” from both countries. History has thus been edulcorated, expurgated, bowdlerized and Stalinized for these kids, who spout mindless drivel like “What took you Americans so long to help us in World War II ?”. When one responds “Kasserine Pass, Sicily, Anzio”, one is met with blank stares.

    “Massacre at Nanking, Flying Tigers, Chiang Kai Shek, the Soong Sisters” are equally unknown, as are “Fall of Singapore, Midway, Tarawa, and Guadalcanal”. Their expressions remain moronic. How can they recall what they haven’t been taught ? Only when they realize that those last places are in the “Extreme Orient” do their faces light up as they triumphantly trumpet “Yes. Hiroshima! That’s where those mean killer uneducated Americans dropped the atomic bomb on innocent Japanese !”

    The EUSSRcrats have adopted one of Napoleon’s favorite sayings:

    “Qu’est-ce que l’Histoire, sinon une fable sur laquelle tout le monde est d’accord ?”

    “What is history but a fable agreed upon?”

    Amerloque 20100714 19h30 Paris time (CET)

    (Have a great evening ! Dinner on the table here !)

  393. Edward. says:

    Bon appetit monsieur!


  394. Pointman says:

    Amanda July 15, 2010 at 3:24 am

    You’re displaying a very good knowledge of the seamier side of the German language. LOL.


  395. aurelian says:

    On reading James Delingpole’s latest thread, a guest post which I feel concedes far too much to the AGW camp, I was moved to post a comment. It disappeared as soon as I refreshed the display. After waiting ten minutes or so, I reposted the same comment, with an additional timestamp. It disappeared when I logged out. Here’s what I said …

    I have concluded that AGW is a political fabrication designed to exploit the religious impulse.
    Discussion of the scientific basis is therefore an artfully trailed lure intended solely to distract.
    Consequently, I concede none of the stipulations made in this thread, and I feel not the slightest concern about atmospheric heating.
    aurelian 14JUL10@1910BST (resubmitted 1922BST)

  396. Pointman says:

    aurelian July 15, 2010 at 4:35 am

    Sounds like it’s Damian’s turn to do the ‘moderating’.


  397. aurelian says:

    To my surprise, my second attempt has now suddenly sprung into view on JD’s current thread.
    Perhaps I used a word which caused it to be routed automatically for moderation, but I suspect a software bug.
    My initial attempt has not surfaced yet.
    aurelian 14JUL10@2004BST

  398. Amanda says:

    Aurelian, good for you, mate. I endorse that view and share it (obviously).

    Frankly I don’t know why James needed a guest post, anyway. I’m pretty sure that James’s own views are closer to ours than to Roddy’s, even unto scepticism about whether we need to ‘accept’ that global warming is definitely occurring, or that we’re definitely contributing to it — significantly.

    Now I admit to a certain ignorance: I’m looking at this as a card player not a scientist. I’m looking at the hands being played and making educated player’s (i.e. political) guesses about what it all adds up to. I can’t talk for two minutes about the meaning of greenhouse gases, but I do know a boondoggle when I see one. I can also recognize a watermelon from a long way off. And although I’m appalled at the pollution emanating from China, Mexico, India, and so on, which surely can’t be doing the planet any good, I’m not sure that it contributes to climate change per se. Also I fail to see how undermining the Western democracies and economies (the two go together) works to reduce pollution in the aforementioned countries. So as I said, I’m with you.

  399. Amanda says:

    Actually Pointman, you now know my seamier German vocab in full. However I’m always willing to learn LOL.

  400. aurelian says:

    @amanda July 15, 2010 at 5:30 am
    I completely agree with what you say.
    I may not have a doctorate in iffy statistical methods but I can still smell a rat.
    The AGW rodent has been decomposing since the day it was crafted, and it stinks to high heaven.
    That guest post on JD’s thread concedes far too much. When I go to JD’s blog, I expect to read JD, not his social worker.
    aurelian 14JUL10@2048BST

  401. orkneylad says:

    Aurelian – I agree……latest JD post is an irrelevance…..hey ho, soldier-on as always!

    The Atlantic rips Penn State and Muir-Russell a new one:
    Climategate and the Big Green Lie

    ‘The Penn State inquiry exonerating Michael Mann — the paleoclimatologist who came up with “the hockey stick” — would be difficult to parody. Three of four allegations are dismissed out of hand at the outset: the inquiry announces that, for “lack of credible evidence”, it will not even investigate them. (At this, MIT’s Richard Lindzen tells the committee, “It’s thoroughly amazing. I mean these issues are explicitly stated in the emails. I’m wondering what’s going on?” The report continues: “The Investigatory Committee did not respond to Dr Lindzen’s statement. Instead, [his] attention was directed to the fourth allegation.”) Moving on, the report then says, in effect, that Mann is a distinguished scholar, a successful raiser of research funding, a man admired by his peers — so any allegation of academic impropriety must be false.’

  402. Amanda says:

    The AGW rodent has been decomposing since the day it was crafted, and it stinks to high heaven.


    I expect to read JD, not his social worker.
    Too right.

  403. scud1 says:

    Evening / afternoon / morning everyone

    Agree with you fella. It does give too much and makes JD sound almost apologetic…give ’em enough rope and all that.

    Hey Pointman

    I’m kind of all out of new vids of explosions and guns…exhausted my supply of favourites. Heard that you’ve been busy with academia through Noidea and manonthemoor over at founding sons chat…good to see you back buddy.

    Wonder what the outcome of tonight’s chat…chaired by the bat will be.
    ‘Bufo75’ (Old toad?) reckons ‘Freewales’ is actually GM…Let’s see if he posts anymore crap this evening…I’m beginning to think that Bufo maybe right.

    Incidentally. Georgy Porgie’s gone and made another spectacular balls up by posting yet another tirade against Lord Monckton together with a full endorsement of his new found hero John Abraham. Right, bang on the day that Abraham begins to retract his libellous dung against the Monk…He he he, seems we really do have God on our side!..

    Also. If you can be arsed and / or masochistic enough to look over at the Guard, have a check of the comments. Seems George has precious few followers left and those that remain are being seriously buggered about by the likes of: ‘roger’ ‘Jacksavage’ ‘Tofu eater’ …

  404. Pointman says:

    Amanda July 15, 2010 at 5:32 am

    “I’m always willing to learn LOL.” An awesome responsability for me, pretty woman.


  405. Klezmer Bear says:

    Amanda says:
    July 15, 2010 at 3:24 am

    Pliss. It isss “Schvantz” mit ein Kapital T. LOL!

    Crownarmourer, it would have been a short war if no coal nor steel came into Germany from Malmo. Interestingly, just this past month the entire Jewish community has mobilized there to leave Sweden owing to an unrelenting rash of violent anti-Jewihs incidents (firebombings of synagogues, bodily assaults on anyone who vaguely looks Jewish etc.). All Sweden’s government aircraft had swastikas on their rudders and swastika flags few from the sterns of all their naval and merchant marine vessels as well.

    L’Amerloque: the current lessons history’s fable has taught us Yanks is that there is no percentage for us to be there for Europe next time. The Ewe has had 60 years to form its own self-defence capability. After what Europe has cost us, I do not think it is to be unexpected that the only nations we might consider aiding would be the UK and possibly Finland and Denmark, the three nations who have repaid the States in full for their Lend Lease and/or reconstruction loans through the BIS. Half what Germany got were outright grants, and they still owe on the balance. Same deal with the Honalabble Japanese.

    Thanks for the reference to the Atlantic, the liberal brown-nose Boston toff’s comic book Orkneylad. When the green lie is criticized there, you know it is curtains for the “responsible” AGW greentard communist pension funds LOL! Hope they lose every dime and tuppence. Like we aren’t “responsible.” We working Yanks are Blame-ola’s helicopters dropping 50 dollar bills on the non-working welfare “war widows” and their crack-dealer boyfriends.

    I got the usual Syracommunist compassion speech at the grocery checkout counter today from a teller who was obviously there as a workfare “get a job or lose your $75 buck apartment and child subsidy” trainee. I went into my Sally Struthers falsetto “Won’t you pleae help? Give generously” ear-fingers routine drowning out her leftist monologue, and had all the other tellers and half the line behind me laughing.

    If someone asks you for spare change in Syracuse, tell them to ask Howie Hawkins, our local resident greentard communitarian communist weiner dawg and larfing stock. He has run for mayor three times, and now is going to run for governor of NY. The beggar will either laugh with you or go ballistic.

    All this is going to end up like “Pan’s Labyrinth,” which suits me. I am now looking for someone to practice my Captain Vidal amontillado bottle facial massage technique on, at the moment. If Franco hadn’t won, the Soviet Union’s Western borders would have been Amsterdam, Oslo, the port of Calais and Lisbon. That’s a film that needs the “Tropic Thunder” treatment too. Communists good, everyone else bad: right.

  406. crownarmourer says:

    Walt if Monty hadn’t mad one last mad push Denmark might have fallen to the Russians and not the allies, at least Churchill managed to save Greece from going communist but that was a Faustian bargain with Stalin.
    I also think Patton was bumped off to stop him restarting WW2 this time against the Russians.

  407. Klezmer Bear says:

    I agree on Monty’s move saving a lot of people’s cookies, but Patton was definitely not popular with his troops. Any GI truck driver would have been ecstatic at the chance to run him down then. The Battle of the Bulge was entirely a product of his vanity, and totally unnecessary. All he had to do was wait for both flanks to come flush with his advance behind Bastogne, but Patton could just not wait. Wouldn’t be so bad, but Patton committed the same mistake Model did following the Normandy landing, and fell itno the same encirclement trap LOL! Complete idiot, IMHO.

    BTW, Rommel never wrote a book on tank tactics, Col. de Gaulle did, just as Douhet wrote the definitive work on the proper deployment of strategic bombing versus surgical strikes. His Char B tank regiment was what held up von Manstein for a day at the approach to Dunkirk and did so through breaking the rules and using the radios in real-time and in clear indstead of coding everything. No using the tank radios were what did for Poland, too. The Poles very nearly beat away the blitzkrieg but for standing orders not to use the radios while under fire.

    French who fought back never get the air time they deserve. Look up “Brandon” and Gen. Weygand and L’AERI sometime.

    I’ll never forget hearing George C. Scott deliver that brilliant line in the film of the same name: “Now I want you to remember that no bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country.”

    His other quote apposite: “I’d rather have a German division in front of me than a French division behind me” – Oz

  408. Klezmer Bear says:

    There was no “hot” cold war, as it was strictly about money, and the Russians always thought we would pay up. Truman did the double-whammy on them, the old monkey jar and nut trick. What saved both sides from nuclear annihilation was Soviet expectations to eventually allow them to collect war reparations like everyone else from the Jerries and Japanese, which never happened, as Truman said no.

    Everyone was too exhausted to segue into WW III at that point in time. Everyone needed five years just to replenish to be able to kick off Korea. If we had pushed for war with Russia at that time, the USA would have had a civil war. McCarthy wasn’t until five years later, remember. It was cool to love Uncle Joe in 1945.

  409. Klezmer Bear says:

    The biggest land battle in history was the fight for Manchukuo (Manchuria) between Marshals Kunov and Zhukov against the Japanese, and it is not even in Western history books, just Russian and Red Chinese. 3 million on each side in 1944-45. Insane losses on both sides.

  410. Amanda says:

    Have you read/heard of William F. Buckley Jr’s novel, The Red Hunter? I started it ages ago and put it down and meant to start again but…. No reflection on the book; I’d like to read it. It’s sort of a fictional biography of McCarthy, I gather (I bought the book years ago and I’m not sure whether it’s still in print; I suspect not.)

    I never judge a book by in-printness. It means nothing; in fact it’s often a stamp of superiority if a book doesn’t sell widely or forever! (I like Agatha Christie, well I did as a youngster, but it’s not exactly Trollope or Patrick O’Brian, is it? Yet aside from Shakespeare, she’s the biggest-selling author of all time — or is Rowling, now? And don’t anyone tell me about the Bible: the Bible’s not an author. Nor does it qualify as entertainment.)

  411. Back on topic, if Obama deep-sixed the carbon crapola today, and said “Go ahead, heat your house with coal and small furry animals,” and committed that cash to debt service, and did prompt call emergency orders to kill futures trading in energy products, ALL of them, China would be doing our laundry and building American railroads alongside the Irish again, and the Dopercrats might have a snowball’s chance in Haiti in November.

    Or I should say “arongside.” So solly!

  412. Amanda says:

    Pointman: dinner’s calling but will check your link later.

    Re Pan’s Labyrinth: As long as we are spared from Pan’s People, all will be well!

  413. Patton wasn’t up to Slim’s nor Wingate’s ankles. The King’s African Rifles out of Tanganyika never get the treatment they deserve, either, in history books. They blasted the bejeebers out of the Japs in Burma and Ceylon.

  414. I hear what you are saying, Amanda. Not unless the right people win in Arizona! I believe, though, that states’ rights will prevail in this instance.

  415. Amanda, I know that Bill Buckley Jr. is the last of the genuinely principled and literate and articulate on the Right in the commentator crowd, just as Dick Cavett was the last liberal I ever respected and respect. Never a lie nor public profanity left the lips of either. I am sure it is a great book, and thanks for the reference. I shall get a copy from

    My contention is that J. Edgar Hoover was Stalin’s most successful spy, however. McCarthy’s job was to make sure the real Red underground was never caught, and it wasn’t. Bertholt Brecht was one of Stalin’s top spies, and he knew about Pearl Harbour before it happened when he was counting ships in LA and San Diego harbours for the NKVD from Victor Sorge. Stalin came to power in 1926, Hoover in 1928.

  416. The only thing that is going to kill GOP chances in November are the mega-doofus right-wing nut crowd, who are very good at drowning out the voices of the non-insane. We don’t need another life is a box of chocolates regime in Congress, we need Schumpeters and Deweys and hard-working scholarship as well as pro-American industrialists on the right who don’t offer pat answers to everything.

    The GOP will have it made if they just said, “We are here to kill Communist globalization in favour of preserving pro-democracy American industry,” and lived up to that oath.

  417. Pointman says:

    Walt, what about ‘vinegar’ Joe Stillwell? Surely one of the forgotten heros?


  418. crownarmourer says:

    Walt it was De Gaulles tactics that the allies intended to use in the event of a soviet invasion of the west, basically let them roll through and retreat in hedgehog formations behind the lines then when the enemies line was over extended enough hit the supply columns hard. The Russian tanks were vulnerable because they usually had one tank controlling a hundred or so, my brothers job back in the 70’s would have been to use mortars to knock out the communications on that tank, then run like eff to get away.
    After a few weeks of this they would start turning Germany into a radioactive hell.

  419. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    aurelian says:
    July 15, 2010 at 4:35 am

    Reading your “heads up” on the DT/JD page, I popped over for a squiz.

    Cranky could perhaps describe my response, so as I expect it to be “disappeared” shortly, I’ll beg your indulgence Oz and post it here.

    /James, you offer us a “most excellent and balanced article” from your friend Roddy(?) Campbell. Really?

    “No-one really disagrees …….. that GHGs warm the planet”.
    James, you’ve had a lot to say on a subject upon which “no-one really disagrees”.

    “we can accept that we are very probably warming the planet, largely through the use of fossil fuels”.
    James, you’ve had a lot to say refuting this assertion of Roddy(?)’s.

    “there is little prima facie evidence that we have caused it”.
    James, you’ve had a lot to say about there being ZERO evidence on AGW.

    “the rate of Arctic melt is nothing new in history and that the mechanics of Arctic melt is not understood….. causing the most noise in the sceptic blogosphere”.
    Good for you Roddy(?).

    “Let’s not go there. Let’s just accept that the planet is warming, that we have something to do with it”
    James, you’ve had a lot to say about the fact that we should NOT accept any such thing.

    “That’s really it on the science. It’s ‘in’, and it’s not ‘in’. What next? A reality check, and the reality is that it doesn’t matter, because it isn’t going to change”.
    James, you’ve had a lot to say about the reality mattering a great deal. Now, it DOESN’T matter?

    “It is not reasonable, and the evidence so far supports this, to expect people to voluntarily pay multiples of what they need to for energy. So it requires compulsion”.
    James, you’ve had a lot to say about how unreasonable sky-rocketing energy prices are. So now compulsion is required?

    “There is no peak gas, there is no peak coal. So it will have no material effect on the cost competitiveness of renewables”.
    James, you’ve had a lot to say about “cost competitiveness” being impossible when it comes to “renewables”. Surely a huge oxymoron.

    “Bangladesh is, weirdly, larger than it was then despite sea level rises”.
    James, you’ve had a lot to say about sea levels, namely WHAT rises?

    James, you have a really peculiar definition of what constitutes a “most excellent and balanced article”.

    Perhaps you might suggest to Roddy(?) that straddling a barbed wire fence can only end in having the seat ripped out of his pants.

    Amelioration or appeasement of the Man Made Global Warming Fraud propaganda is not going to change one iota the FACT that this Criminal Cabal of Socialist/Marxist/Fabian Conspirators have embarked on History’s greatest transfer of Global Wealth for their own financial and political gain and should be held accountable under the Law//.

    As for the (?) after “Roddy”, the only Roddys I know are still “mewling and puking in their mothers’ arms”.

    I do hope JD responds to this post of yours Swanny. I agree with the inconsistencies you’ve highlighted; it appears he posted this piece by his mate, either without a) reading it fully, or b) thinking through the implications – Oz

  420. Pointman says:
    July 15, 2010 at 10:02 am

    He also did an impossible job well, and BTW also got food in the form of rice relief to the Indians when reserves were withheld by Mountbatten from the Indian people for fear India might swing over to the Japs.

    Gen. Stilwell’s experience with the Chinese and subsequent experience in Korea tells me that to this day it will be a hard slog for the Red Chinese to get optimum performance on the battlefield out of them. They are brave and clever, and they also have a zero-win record except against their own people. Even Communist Viet Nam took them down after Red China invaded them around 1979 or so.

    Crownarmourer, I think de Gaulle’s strategy is the only way to stop a push by the old Soviets. In Arizona and Texas and also in California, “red” teams of combined armour, air and infantry in textbook Russian formation would move against defender forces in exercises. The “red” team would win every time.

    I suppose Germany would be getting used to be leveled by now. It’s been that way there every 50-75 years since the Thirty Years’ War. Maybe they need to change their minds about their general approach to life and the rest of the world, do you think? Nah! “Vee are Germans, and vee know vot’s best for everyvun else, ja?” Even Merkel is of that opinion.

    If there is any European conflict on any scale at all, I offer you three guesses as to where it will start, and who will start it, and the first two guesses don’t count.

    There was a German writer of detective novels rather similar to Len Deighton’s style from the Sixties called Hans Helmut Kirst who had his detective character quote an old German farmer’s saying, “Two Germans are stupider than one German.” That’s German folklore talking. About themselves.

  421. Blackswan Tasmania:

    Methinks GE fears being dethroned and having to chase another topic for his livelihood, as even Lord Prescott of Blimpovia has indicated he thought Braun overstated AGW’s case immensely.

    Controversialists make money and pay the rent through inventing controversies, IMHO. That I feel is the beginning and end of it.

    As stated earlier, AGW is for the long drop seriously on all fronts. A year out from now, if you are wearing a green T-shirt with a buncha leaves and a dove on it, y’all better be packing heat. People are already even more upset about the impact of AGW dogma on their personal finances than we are.

    BP is as predicted about to be de facto nationalized in full if and when the proposed Congressional offshore US drilling ban applies to them, as the only way they shall make their commitments stateside is through ponying up from their other stateside op’s. In the meantime, those wellheads formerly belonging to BP after the imposition of this ban will go to, IMHO, America’s first state-owned oil company. LOL!

    State capitalism here, at the same time Russia and Red China kinda sorta are letting that type enterprise go, constitutes perfect footmarksmanship only a few months prior to a critical US election. Bravo! Encore!

  422. ERRATA: should have said “BP Amoco.” If you check out the BP cleanup site, they refer only to Deepwater Horizon as culpable parties. Guess who is going to get sued once BP settles up with the Feds?

  423. @ Ozboy:

    “I’d rather have a German division in front of me than a French division behind me” – Oz

    Well, de Tatigny did alright in the southern push. France took 2 million casualties during WW II, 250,000 as combatant Resistance fighters, equal in number to total American losses. A lot of French were left face down in the dunes of Dunkirk to help UK forces get home, too. Viscount Field Marshal Alanbrooke was half French.

    I’ve neither praise nor even grudging admiration for the Jerries. Their Wehrmacht generals stayed in the saddle for the nasty little corporal because he paid them very, very well with other people’s confiscated property. But for their own greed, they could have blown him away like a mosquito on their arm and sidestepped the entire mess at any time during the proceedings.

    Well, re Patton’s quote on the French I won’t argue with you; re the Germans, I can only say I’ve read rather a lot of WWII histories, and your interpretation of the Wehrmacht officer corps’ motivations is a new one to me – Oz

  424. Ike and General Marshall are the two Yank generals I most respect. If postwar affairs were left to the other generals, we would be fighting WW III against the same folks now, again. They started from a concept of what constituted closure for the European conflict, then worked from there, built on Churchill’s and Alanbrooke’s ideas. FDR ought never to have allowed Wild Bill Donovan anywhere near SE Asia. We are still paying for that mistake today.

  425. crownarmourer says:

    Walt the funny thing about the state of troops back in the late 70’s for the USA was laughable bar a few units, my brother trained in the brecons in winter to harden them up. There battalion was up there training with american troops usual stupidity applied fox holes must be so many feet deep, well not funny if the soil is only a foot thick before you hit rock so they had to pile soil up to comply. They were stuck with field rations the American troops had hamburger vans go the mountains to feed them, which was a god send to my brothers battalion because they were excellent scroungers and got a lot of free food. Anyhow then came the blizzard the American troops were pulled off in no time at all. My brothers battalion was up there a week in that mess.
    Which meant in the event of a real war at the time the US troops would find any kind of privation difficult whereas our troops could tough it out longer.
    Things have changed a lot since then but you wonder what would happen in a war where the troops had to deal with real hardship for whatever reason.
    In Iraq it was noticeable that in the field US troops were begging food off British squaddies, not because they lacked rations but that the rations sucked badly, British troops were masters at scrounging and were cooking real food out in the field.
    However when it comes to hardware no one beats the USA. However they are having serious problems with the generation Y major ADHD and soft.

  426. crownarmourer says:

    Walt it also applies to the kids in the UK as well soft flabby and no attention spans, just as well both armies are volunteer to weed them out.

  427. crownarmourer says:

    Walt while I admire IKE for his abilities in WW2, his memory is soured by our little soiree with the french, israelis and the UK at Suez. Which would have clipped the wings of the Arab nationalists and sent a strong message. It would have meant we would have stayed East of Suez stabilizing the region. People forget we faced down the Iraqis over Kuwait back in the 60’s and stopped a war by our presence. Kuwait were our allies.

  428. I agree on all points. We are going to pay a bitter price, worse than Casserine Pass, the first major outing we engage a real adversary instead of party-hardy hillbilly opium clowns who half the time do not even know they are there.

    British are really at core tougher. It’s another one of your ancient, bred in the bone thingies that weird me out and that make you laugh when I point it out. Even the fattie family fairies harden up fast when called upon. It’s not like that here. We have ALWAYS made a fetish out of physical comfort. Self-denial is blasphemy here, always has been. It took three years just to get Yanks off the roads and out of their vehicles in Vietnam.

    Urk. The masculine form of Carrie is Cary. Duh. As in Cary Grant.

  429. You know, of course, that all MIddle Eastern oil coming into the States is subsidized by tax offsets hidden into US distributors’ IRS forms, right? It is called the Oil Import Price Stabilization Act of 1958. It has never been and will never be cost-effective to import Arab oil into the USA. It constitutes a huge subsidy the US taxpayer doesn’t even know they are paying for, which I hope saying so doesn’t get me shot, but there you are.

  430. Used to know the form umber from the IRS off the top of my head, but it is an effort to recall my name half the time now LOL! Sixty is not the new forty, it is the new eighty, if you have to work.

  431. If Kablamma just voided THAT subsidy, bob’s yer uncle on a goodly portion of the budget. It was meant to be temporary. OPEC doesn’t need it, we do, they could do with some positive PR, right? Fat chance.

  432. You want to know what the game-changer is at the moment in MR affairs, I could write you volumes.

    This is really what Hummus, Hizblahblah, the Saudis and Ahminneedofaleftjab are losing sleep over. They should LOL!

    British Gas are also major players in Israel, too, kinda sorta subrosa, but not. Interesting stories there as well.

  433. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Dr Carrie 2.09pm

    “Controversialists make money and pay the rent through inventing controversies, IMHO. That I feel is the beginning and end of it.”

    I can’t agree Doctor. I don’t think GE invented a controversy about AGW. The Fraud itself was responsible for creating a controversy when anyone with a single active braincell saw it for what it really is.

    GE, having his ear to the ground and an eye for the “main chance” ( I should refrain from commenting on other body parts…. but I won’t….LOL), picked it up and the rest is history.

    If his articles had never attracted a syllable in support, there would BE no controversy. It’s the relentless nature of the Truthseeker contributors who created the volcanic eruption of unanswerable questions challenging AGW that gave GE’s blog any weight whatsoever.

    If financial expediency is now causing him to straddle that barbed wire fence, then he can expect the GE family jewels to be seriously at risk. If financial expediency is causing him to become a more “moderating influence” on his rabid sceptic adherents, then I’d have more respect for him if he came out and said so directly, rather than publishing an “appeasement” piece via his mate “Roddy”.

    Do you think he would have given “Guest Space” under his “By-line” to NoIdea’s brilliant essay on AGW way back on this thread?

    Unfortunately, I think those family jewels have just turned out to be “paste” after all, and that barbed wire fence has done him no favours.

  434. crownarmourer says:

    Blackswan then we should ask him directly I have his email address or go to his personal blog and pose your questions there he will reply I can cut and paste your post but it’s up to you? Or we can ask him to visit here and view our concerns? I will do nothing unless you give permission.

  435. Locusts says:


    Thanks for the youtube Copenhagen video, just watched it. It spurred me on to find an article that I read on the Guardian late last year, a fly on the wall account,

    Copenhagen was a disaster. That much is agreed. But the truth about what actually happened is in danger of being lost amid the spin and inevitable mutual recriminations. The truth is this: China wrecked the talks, intentionally humiliated Barack Obama, and insisted on an awful “deal” so western leaders would walk away carrying the blame. How do I know this? Because I was in the room and saw it happen.

    China’s strategy was simple: block the open negotiations for two weeks, and then ensure that the closed-door deal made it look as if the west had failed the world’s poor once again. And sure enough, the aid agencies, civil society movements and environmental groups all took the bait. The failure was “the inevitable result of rich countries refusing adequately and fairly to shoulder their overwhelming responsibility”, said Christian Aid. “Rich countries have bullied developing nations,” fumed Friends of the Earth International…

    the rest is here:

  436. Blackswan Tasmania says:
    July 15, 2010 at 3:33 pm

    Well, it does seem to me the piece of paper James is waving stepping out of the Junkers trimotor resembles the Munich pact LOL! If I had two little girls to provide for, I would gladly administer enemas to elephants and whales and be glad for the work, being careful to step to one side at the moment of dislodgement. We address two moral issues here, methinks.

  437. your interpretation of the Wehrmacht officer corps’ motivations is a new one to me – Oz

    It’s because there intentionally is not a lot of public research done on the finances of the German war machine, the reason being that, like China now, the Third Reich was everyone’s go to place during the 1930’s Depression to make money on quick financial flips factoring (you know what accounts receivable financing is, right?) on military manufacturing accounts, even though to do so violated Versailles, of course. Some of the players, many of which even provided technical and engineering help as well as equipment to the Jerries: Ford, GM, IBM, Burroughs, Lufkin, Standard Oil of New Jersey, JP Morgan, AT & T, IT & T, General Electric. The confiscated properties cash flow is very well documented and is how Holocaust survivor claims are validated, but how the confiscated property made its way to the payroll dept of the Reich and how it was distributed, there is no single document except reports at the George C. Marshall Archives at the Virginia Military Academy and the US Army Military History Institute in Carleton, PA. The original Nuremberg Trial archives have tonnes of material on this as well, but it is still a warm corpse 70 years later.

    This pre-war collusion with US industrial interests (and even during the war) is what deluded the Jerries into thinking they could negotiate an end to the war on their terms with the USA. That Hitler named his personal train car “Amerika” is an open indicator of this delusional state of mind.

    Best short book on the subject and the Allies’ collusion in same: “Trading With the Enemy” by Charles Higham I’ll keep an eye out for it – Oz (there is a book on the Iran-Contra controversy by the same name, different author). Funny side story: Argentina was the repository of just-in-case money, but a lot of generals never made it there, hence the brief postwar economic boom in Peronistaland.

    The German army was very well paid, and the Reichsmark had strength in many quarters, not least of all at home.

  438. The truly stupendous book never yet written is how much cash the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, Yassir Arafat’s uncle, and the Al-Bani movement muled into the Third Reich from the Arab world.

  439. crownarmourer says:

    Walt there is a book which my wife has how IBM helped the NAZI’s enable the holocaust by providing the machines that allowed them to round everyone up efficiently, the Ford corporations overseas operations provided them with the means to make trucks etc and tires. Makes you think. Walt Disney was a member of the American Nazi party.

  440. Wonder how much of that ultimately ended up in socially responsible environmental investment funds. To me, all this AGW stuff is just another round of battle between Dvorah and Barak against the Amalekites on the plains of Megiddo for the land of Canaan.

    Gaels are supposed to be remnants of the tribe of Manasseh, I believe. Bagpipes date back to then and there.

  441. crownarmourer says:
    July 15, 2010 at 5:15 pm

    Yeah, ole Walt was a big player with the Deutsche Amerikanischer Bund based in Milwaukee. He helped pay for Camp Hindenburg where you could send your kid in the 1930’s to learn to fire rifles, march wearing swastika armbands, and learn to write and speak proper German language and learn national socialist ideology.

    The Hollerith machine was the only way the Shoa was possible, as it was the main mechanism making census records instantly and individually accessible at a central point without reliance on manual indeces. When laying out a roundup by region such tools made quick work of an otherwise arduous task. The Einsatzgruppen needed lists from which to work that were readily accessible and easily updated.

    IBM reps from the States were there throughout the war, but IBM wasn’t the only greedy U.S. Janus. Germany bought hard to get stuff like aircraft engine bearings from US firms through their Argentinian reps. I know a Sephardic Argentinian whose grandparent did such transshipment deals. That grandparent also took a few trips to Germany after the war to pay his respects, so to speak. WW II against the Luftwaffe would probably have gone better if Bomber Harris had concentrated night air raids on Ohio LOL!

    How the Jerries did it was they told the Jewish businessman anywhere in the world that they had a relative or two hostage, and that they would be safe if only they did a couple of favours for the greater glory of the Reich. The relative may already have been dead, of course. Admiral Canaris’ top spy, a fellow named Max, was Jewish, as were many of his operatives. All were controlled via this form of blackmail.

  442. I am sure I posted this at JD’s site, but the coal gasification technology championed today called the Fischer Tropsch process was used in 38 coal-to-liquids plants throughout the greater Reich including occupied countries. Auschwitz was located where it was to be near the huge coal reserves in Oswiecim (the Jerries never finished the plant there, though; it would have been their biggest yet). Slave labour was used to clean the vertical coal gasifiers even though these vertical ovens may still have been unimaginably hot. To do so is still one of the worst jobs imaginable in the business, even with protective clothing, of which the slave labour had very little.

    There are lots of little links between the “then” of fascism and the Now of AGW scamsterism. The truth will out on its own, though. Always does. If you listen hard enough, you can hear the bagpipes….

  443. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    crownarmourer says:
    July 15, 2010 at 3:52 pm

    “I will do nothing unless you give permission.”

    Hi Crown,
    Just got back for a catch-up. Thanks for your interest, just a couple of things………

    You absolutely never, ever need my permission to do anything. You have my respect and faith in your judgment to do whatever you choose as being the right thing for you.

    I have no intention of posting questions to the GE anywhere. HE published an article by a friend which he described as “most excellent and balanced”. He then invited Comment to that article via Disqust. I responded.

    Should he wish to respond in that forum, I would be interested to read his comment. At this point in time, no such reply has been forthcoming.

    I have no wish to justify my opinion to him – it just “is”. I seek no justification from him on his course of action – it just “is”. He sought his readers’ opinions via Disqust, he got mine. The software provides a Reply facility, he can use it or not, it’s a matter of indifference to me.

    …but not to me (and, I’m guessing, others here). Swanny has raised an excellent and real point, and if JD doesn’t put it to bed, the trolls will have a field day. I see Damocles at DT trying this on already. If it isn’t defused, it could turn into a real problem – Oz

  444. Blackswan, you see now why I have not been back to post at the DT once since the big changeover. I never will again, either. Big waste of time. We’ll still be here long after JD’s moved on to different topics, or a new posting with another paper or just flogging his book which we may very well have half-written.

    MOTM’s archive ought to go to the insurance underwriters for all these AGW “power” projects and all these environmental investment portfolios, methinks. That’s where it would gut the most pigs.

  445. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Sleepy Bear @ 4.33pm

    “If I had two little girls to provide for, I would gladly administer enemas to elephants and whales and be glad for the work, being careful to step to one side at the moment of dislodgement.”

    It’s exactly this sentiment that has persuaded scientists, politicians, bankers and bureaucrats to suggest/dictate/falsify/enforce the AGW Fraud.

    The GE has previously headlined his campaign with……………..

    “I’d rather my wife made land mines than worked in the wind farm industry”
    “I’d rather stick my hand in a bag of amphetamine-injected rattlesnakes…..”

    Can we assume that his now “most excellent and balanced” frame of mind has his wife on the land-mine assembly line or that he has had massive doses of snake venom antidote?

    It’s true that when you have a family to provide for, you do whatever it takes. That’ll be the Nuremberg defense that the Fraudsters will come up with, “we did as we were told”.

    However, if anyone HAD to give elephants enemas, they’d better be prepared to cop the shower of sh*t coming their way…………or get another job.

  446. Pointman says:

    Locusts July 15, 2010 at 3:58 pm

    Hi Locusts. For “a freelance writer working full-time on climate change” the political analysis is spot on at the start and in the Guardian too! In the end, he can’t take that final step into Realpolitik. China didn’t singlehandedly sink Copenhagen, it merely represented all the developing countries none of whom were prepared to stop industrialising their economies. That’s their only way out of poverty.

    In return for remaining underdeveloped they were basically being offered cash but every one of them judged that it would be a snowy day in Hell if they ever got any and for two reasons. Firstly the developed countries are in recession with austerity regimes hardly starting to bite, there simply isn’t the money there. Secondly a lot of the cash coming their way would simply be transferred from the foreign aid programmes.

    Copenhagen was a victory for the poorest and most vulnerable people on the face of the Earth not China flexing its muscles, as the article concludes.


  447. manonthemoor says:

    Good morning from the UK
    Having got my eyes open this morning I am overrun with questions, having re-read the latest JD post.

    Q1/ Are we witnessing the outcome of ‘dirty work at the crossroads’ over the last few weeks?
    Q2/ Why would GE move aside during a critical ‘Monbiot’ period.?
    Q3/ Why would GE a writer, proclaim another text as better than his own efforts?
    Q4/ Did GE in fact write any of the piece?
    Q5/ Whose opinion does the piece reflect?
    Q6/ Is GE moving to ‘exit stage left’?
    Q7/ Is DT, JD or another driving the change?

    We live in interesting times will the’ Mandleson’ type truth ever be told?
    Is the above all stupid supposition?
    We may never know and I have NoIdea

    Note I prepared this post before reading the overnight Oz posts – It seems others have deected a putrid rodent. The outcome may be nasty.

    ps Blackswan Tasmania
    July 15, 2010 at 5:46 pm
    July 15, 2010 at 3:52 pm

    I have a feeling it may be already out of JD’s hands

  448. MOTM, perhaps the entire idea of the anti-AGW blog was to round up all the dissenters and sceptics after the fashion of the University of Toronto electrical engineering and computer science department listing of scientists who dissent from the warmist view.

    Zey haff places fur peoples like us….including fur bears.

    Was that a pun or a double entendre?

    No idea.

  449. Maybe JD no longer exists, and fabian extrusions is aliasing him now LOL!

  450. Pointman says:

    MOTM, the cynical side of me thinks it was just courting controversy to stoke up the hits. Another troll invasion beaten off by the GE’s loyal worshippers!


  451. NoIdea says:

    Hiya Blackswan.

    Thank you for drawing attention to the watermelon nature of that article.
    The sentence at the beginning
    “No-one really disagrees with the basic physical proposition that CO2 is a greenhouse gas (GHG), and that GHGs warm the planet.”
    Could have been copy pasted straight from many of the copy paste responses of the trolls (newsjunkie)
    Well I am glad to be a “no-one” funny how Roddy doesn’t feel it worth mentioning this basic physical proposition and how it works.
    This No-one also noticed the watermelon obliqueness in another of JDs articles the other day.
    glad I hit refresh and found points I was thinking of raising had already been met, are we all cynical skeptics?


  452. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Hiya No-one,

    As you and I belong to the Greater Family of No-one, generally regarded as Nobodies, Dogsbodies, Foreign Bodies (usually most irritating to clear vision) but closely related to the Great Body of Popular Opinion, we’ll have to keep in close touch……. maybe do an episode of “Who Do You Think You Are?” to do some genealogy research into other branches of the Family….lol

  453. NoIdea says:

    Hiya Swan.

    Wondering if you would care to join us at Rastechs virtual café over @
    A fine place to bump in to old friends and acquaintances.
    Shall I pop the virtual kettle on?

    NoIdea McNo-One

  454. Pointman says:

    UEA’s delayed response to climate emails caused by shock, says professor

    “He also claimed that university researchers were switching from using their university to using Gmail addresses, to avoid being covered by freedom of information requests. ”

    Getting information out of these people is like pulling teeth.


  455. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Pointman @ 7.00pm

    “the cynical side of me thinks it was just courting controversy to stoke up the hits”.

    Hi Pointy,

    If you’re right, it’s a funny way to do it. A quick scan of recent blogs reveals they yielded 166, 151, 208 & 51 with the outright winner being a whopping 631 for “Don’t Mess with Monckton”.

    In checking that out, I saw he’s given Roddy the flick after less than 24 hours with the most disingenuous piece of nonsense ever. “Tongue in cheek” won’t swing it for me. How many tongues can one fit into the average cheek before one comes off looking like a squirrel?

  456. Pointman says:

    Hi Swan, That guest post was truly bizzare. I think he lost a bet or something. It was either let the guy have the spot or kick Bishop Brennan up the arse …


  457. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Pointman says:
    July 15, 2010 at 8:13 pm

    Hi Pointy,

    Thanks for the link. I’m just picking my jaw up from the floor. G-MAIL ACCOUNTS?

    Call me a quaint old-fashioned swan but is it beyond the realm of reason that ANY communication between professionals on PUBLICLY FUNDED research, remains the the property of the Public via FOI, and ANY measure to circumvent accountability MUST be unlawful.

    Isn’t there Someone, Anyone involved in this Putrid Business with just a modicum of Integrity?

    YES!!! The Hero/Heroine, Champion of Sceptics everywhere….the WHISTLEBLOWER. Come back, we need you.

  458. theendisnighnot says:

    Blackswan, NoIdea etc had to check i wasn’t on the Gruniard when I read the “GEs’ latest offering can only assume he’s too busy writing his books or something and has handed over to a double agent! As this crap disintergrates i imagine there will be other soul s out there who will tone down the rhetoric and find reasons to accomodate the likes of Moonbat etc just thought the “GE” might be one of the last but then again look at his background and how he responded to the exodus (freedom of ja people) from his blog …. pathetic……………… the likes of Booker, North etc have far more backboner IMHO

  459. theendisnighnot says:

    i meant backbone not backboner obviously lol

  460. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Pointman says:
    July 15, 2010 at 8:26 pm

    Pointy, I admire your valiant efforts at explaining the unexplainable.

    If your theory was true, why would GE describe the piece as most “excellent and balanced”, ” reasonable and fair”?

  461. Pointman says:

    Swan, I find it interesting that they’ve switched to gmail but for another reason. It puts their email comms not only beyond the reach of FOI requests but also the whistleblower. Does this imply they still haven’t identified the leaker I wonder?


  462. rastech says:

    crownarmourer says:
    July 15, 2010 at 2:33 pm
    “Walt it also applies to the kids in the UK as well soft flabby and no attention spans, just as well both armies are volunteer to weed them out.”

    I take great delight in saying this is not true. 🙂

    I was back in College a few years back, and can confidently state “The kids are alright!”

    It was an absolute honour to be in their company.

    Yes, they have been let down (badly) with their educations (their maths abilities are pretty dire), but no problems with the kids at all.

  463. Edward. says:


    It may have been said however I am going to reiterate; the guy on the JD blog as far as I am concerned does not in anyway represent my views, I am not in any way ‘sure’ that we are warming the planet through man-made CO2 emissions.
    There is an upper limit to the efficacy of CO2 GHG potential, the planet undoubtedly has become warmer since the mini ice age, this is not due to CO2 level rises from mankind’s industrialisation, our input has been minimal. Rises in CO2 since the mini ice age are mainly due to natural processes. It is a matter of conjecture whether the warming of the past 50/60 years is in any way linked to mm CO2e, I would point to the willful manipulation of data sets and the unarguable facts of Temperature weather stations being moved to warmer southern areas particularly in the North American continent (and almost total removal in areas such as Siberia) and we cannot forget the UHI effects, satellite T data measurement is much more stable.
    The feed back factor has been defenestrated, blitzed even, there is no AGW hypothesis which can stand up to scrutiny, only computer models which are nobbled beyond belief, (see Michael Mann).
    Gentlemen/Ladies, we have been sold a pup.
    That the JD post is the way most alarmists now want us to think (it is very BBC-esque approach).
    They have tried another tack just recently, by making placatory noises about, “well there may be something in the realists arguments”, make no mistake they are still the same bastards as before, witness Monbiots recent bilge. The end is the same.
    Monckton is on the trail and he senses blood, Dr. North made moanbot retract, Cuccinelli hopefully is still after Mann, the game is afoot!
    To quote Amerloque, we must remain vigilant and keep the pressure on, mewling posts like Campbell’s hinder rather than help.

    Blackswan is correct, this is a mendacious attempt to de-industrialise the planet, make millions for vested interests on Carbon Trading (what an amazing scam this is!!) and with the end being a form of ‘world’ government. Well the Chinese and Indians are having none of it and who can blame them and neither should any sentient being in the west either.
    Why do any of us listen to our idiot politicians!….Who can’t (or will not) even grasp the basics of this puerile hypothesis (AGW) because if they did and were honest (what a laugh!) we would have put this BS to bed long ago.

    As to JD’s blog post, Roddy Campbell can keep his opinions because he certainly does not speak for me.
    As to the wider implications of the post itself I would say Motm has it about right.


  464. theendisnighnot says:

    Ed…. superb fellah i tried to say something similar earlier but not so erudite unfortunately but agree with every single thing you said…… cheers

  465. Edward. says:

    theendisnighnot says:
    July 15, 2010 at 8:58 pm

    theendisnighnot, how’s tricks in the middle kingdom?
    Thank you for your support, I was amazed at Delingpole’s posting of that rot yesterday, has he gone soft do you think?


  466. manonthemoor says:

    July 15, 2010 a t 8:51 pm

    Hi Ed thanks for your support

    The smell of putrid rodents seems to be getting stronger, s the post was pulled so quickly.

    The replacement post is a nothing for me and has no substance just tittle tattle

    We live in interesting times but not let up and keep up our fight

  467. theendisnighnot says:

    Ed without being personal to him (lol) i don’t think “gone soft” is apt for it to be he’d have had to been “hard” in the first place…. have you seen his picture!!!!! Anyway enough of that “GE” you ask “how are things in the Middle Kingdom” and i say great its like being at the birth of a whole new nation whats going on here is hard to describe don’t believe any of the crap you read in the western media (or the Chinese for that matter!). I call it state controlled capitalism and it works (for me anyway). The UK is more left wing than this place and is the sorrier for it IMHO. As for this AGW bollix they pay lip service over here and whilst they do strive to reduce pollution can see them looking at the West with bemusement. They will do what is right for the Chinese people and government and fair play to them. What other country do you know that has taken 250,000,000 people out of poverty in the last 10 years? Its not Utopia nowhere is (er apart from Utopia i guess) but here (Shanghai )its crime free and if you work hard you can make a shed load of dough. Fantastic place fantastic people you really should try it one day. Regards

  468. Edward. says:

    theendisnighnot says:
    July 15, 2010 at 9:19 pm

    Yes, I really must try to visit a wonderful country, my nephew was in Guongdong area or was it Xiamen, not good on Chinese Geography (grin). He said the people made it for him, keep on truckin’ theendisnighnot, my best to you!


  469. Edward. says:

    manonthemoor says:
    July 15, 2010 at 9:15 pm

    Hello Motm!

    Yes you are right!
    It is a damn crusade, dunno where JD was coming from, wonder what Messers Watts/Monckton/North think?
    Wonder what Marc Morano thinks too, bet he’d be pulling his hair out!


  470. Pointman says:

    Jo Nova’s got her hands on correspondence between Abraham’s Uni and Monckton. They’re defending their Asst. Prof. for the moment but it feels terribly luke warm.


  471. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    I just wandered over to GE’s blog and scrolled quickly through the current one to see how many times he has posted a comment, interacting with his flock. I counted Six when my attention was caught by a rather lengthy comment from Reddit in the Social Media Reactions section on page 4 from “newest”.

    A long disgusting and sexually obscene diatribe. If Disqust thinks that constitutes appropriate reading for the General Public, then they are truly twisted and the DT is nothing but a Rag not worth a nano-second more of my time.

    Then I flicked back to Roddy’s piece to see if GE had answered anything there and lo! and behold!, old Roddy himself is there having a love-fest with Damocles and saying…..

    “Thank you all for your comments, except the ones who just shout scam all the time. Just not interesting.”

    Well folks, seeing as we are all so “Just not interesting”, why are we even bothering with this crap?

    I have nothing more to say about the London Telegraph or the creeps writing for them.

  472. rastech says:

    I must be honest, I don’t see how anything that is an efficient ‘transfer medium’, can be by any definition a ‘greenhouse gas’?

    The whole foundation of a ‘greenhouse gas’ to me implies, in its very essence, that it must be a particularly inefficient shedder of heat (essentially acting as a ‘storage heater’). Otherwise, it is markedly inferior to the very ground itself, which would instead the the receptor of that radiated heat.

    If you think about it, are we really going to start calling the ground a greenhouse ‘solid’ and the Oceans, lakes, and rivers, greenhouse ‘liquids’?

    Given that CO2 is a very efficient ‘shedder’ of heat, to the extent it has been used as a ‘coolant’ in Advanced Gas Cooled Reactors (that gas being CO2), if it was not an efficient ‘shedder’ of acquired heat, then it would have no place being used as a coolant in the first place!

    Therefore, I think it is pretty inescapable that the reality is, CO2 is NOT a ‘greenhouse gas’, because it is physically impossible for it to be one. It cannot contribute to a ‘blanket effect’ because it absolutely sucks at storing energy.

    To me, the pretence that the opposite holds true, is disingenuous at best. To me, it is ‘up there’ with those ridiculous self styled and paper waving ‘Oceanographers’ that denied the existence of Superwaves to the extent of being blue in the face, despite being assured by countless individuals that had been in contact with very real Superwaves over very many years (including the Royal Navy whose encounters with them have been so frequent their slang for them is ‘Speed Bumps’), until a ship full of so called ‘Oceanographers’ had their very own encounter with a Superwave while out on a jolly of an Expedition.

    Just because they ran into one, suddenly they became ‘real’.

    Seriously, what reality do these buffons think they exist in?

  473. Locusts says:


    That is one fruity post!

  474. theendisnighnot says:

    Blackswan……… your quite correct hence the reason alot of us prefer” Ozboys Bar & Grill” could see the way JD/GE’s blog was going when he got into his public school bitchfight with Moonbat said it before will say it again two peas from a pod. Integrity is an alien concept to these types witness our politicians/leaders over the last 30 years not one of them i can think of ever done a proper days work in their life all theorists. Unfortunately the latest offering is like a pinzer movement by the warmists and the realists “appear” to have fallen for it hook line and sinker albeit they may be (hope so) damming it with faint praise.

  475. Blackswan Tasmania says:

    Well folks, off to roost for the night now that my blood pressure’s returned to normal.

    Goodnight all.

  476. Pointman says:

    theendisnighnot July 15, 2010 at 10:51 pm

    theendisnighnot, I agree there are too many elements of two public school journos handbagging each other and it not reflecting favourably on either of them. On the practicle side, we can only work with what we’ve got, I’m afraid …


  477. Amanda says:

    Actually, Walt, Delingpole has a boy (the elder) and a girl.

  478. Amerloque says:

    Following is an email sent by Amerloque to the moderators are the DT, cc to editor and letters.

    “”Hello !

    The text below currently appears in the “social media” part of James Deligpole’s blog.

    Why haven’t you removed it ? It’s been there for two hours !

    How do you expect anyone to take the DT seriously ?


    Amerloque 20100715 15h20 Paris time (CET)

    (garbage text in toto) ”

    I’ve also posted the following on the blog:

    “”Another tactic would be to create multiple posting personae. Use them to copy/paste the bilge into every blog on the DT.

    That’ll wake ’em up. (grin) “”

    Amerloque 20100715 15h54 Paris time (CET)

  479. Edward. says:


    Get a load of this rubbish, read the comments at the bottom, I think they are Mann’s family……..good grief!


  480. theendisnighnot and Pointman:

    Life ’tis but a game to the celestially anointed, my friend. It’s up to us ill-spoken and sweating proles in the trenches to sort out how to deal with the psychic monstrosities the hoi polloi unleash on us, rather like the Creatures from the Id in “The Angry Red Planet LOL.” All we can do is fix bayonets, put one leg on the ladder and wait for the whistle and football kickoff.

    Amanda, thanks for the correction. So really, I take it, JD has two blogs to moderate, one virtual and digital and one even more intense in the flesh at home.

  481. Superwaves are caused by whales breaking wind. I read it in the Carbon Capture Journal LOL! It’s why Stokes Mortar Bear has the gas mask pouch mounted on his chest like a Canadian.

  482. Rastech,

    Is that Zack Starkey there with the Pete-ster?

  483. Thanks, Pointman. Ripping stuff.

  484. Ozboy, ye heard the lads now. This here bar & grille has great ad-click potential. Head over to my page of energy company trade journals at and send them an e-mail to have them post ads at this blog. It’ll do you well for the Guinness jingle plus draw the readers and posters we want and need to tangle and share notes with.

  485. Imagine Rolls Royce Gas Turbine Division advertising here. Ooooo. The Delirium Tremens could nae do so well as ‘at.

  486. The most grating thing about the celestially anointed is that their forebears (ouch) were worse mainchancers and children of the damned than shall ever we be.

  487. My gawd, that’s Keith Moon. I am that aulde, am I not.

  488. crownarmourer says:

    Someone mentioned GMAIL for the profs to avoid FOI requests, I hope they read the fine print anything you use Google for becomes the property of Google. So never use there free online spreadsheets word documents anything. Google is evil corp when it comes to data.

  489. orkneylad says:

    Difference between raw and ‘finished’ USHCN data sheets:

    fat finger or dirty finger?

  490. izen says:

    @ rastech –
    “I must be honest, I don’t see how anything that is an efficient ‘transfer medium’, can be by any definition a ‘greenhouse gas’?

    The whole foundation of a ‘greenhouse gas’ to me implies, in its very essence, that it must be a particularly inefficient shedder of heat (essentially acting as a ‘storage heater’)…..
    Given that CO2 is a very efficient ‘shedder’ of heat, to the extent it has been used as a ‘coolant’ in Advanced Gas Cooled Reactors (that gas being CO2), if it was not an efficient ‘shedder’ of acquired heat, then it would have no place being used as a coolant in the first place!”

    CO2 is both and efficient ‘shedder’ of energy AND a good storage medium. At least compared with other atmospheric gases.
    It is because it is both that it acts as an efficient greenhouse gas.

    First it is an efficient energy storage medium because as a dipolar molecule it has numerous internal modes of vibration and rotation (the ‘flapping wings’ of oxygen!) that can store more energy than is carried by just its velocity and mass.
    Second it can efficiently shed that extra energy because when it collides with another molecule it can transfer not just the kinetic energy from its speed, but also the energy stored in the vibrational motion of the constituent atoms of the molecule.

    The ground looses the heat it gains from incident sunlight in two ways.
    1) by radiating IR photons
    2) by conduction to the atmospheric layer in contact with it.

    Without any greenhouse effect the energy absorbed by the ground from sunlight would be lost to space direct, or warm the layer of air at the surface which would rise with the fall in pressure lowering its temperature.

    CO2 (and water vapour of course) change this process of energy loss because they absorb some of the IR photons emitted by the ground. Most of this absorbed energy is then very efficiently shed into the surrounding atmosphere .
    Therefore the total atmosphere is warmed by an additional process than just conduction from the surface. It is also warmed by conduction from the CO2 (and water vapour) that has absorbed IR photons from the surface.

    The CO2 (and WV) acts as a means of converting IR photons from the hot ground that would otherwise be lost to space, into kinetic (thermal) energy of the atmospheric gases.
    It is its dual ability to store energy (from IR photons) as vibrational modes, and shed that energy as an additional ‘kick’ in velocity when it collides with other molecules that makes it (and WV) a ‘greenhouse’ gas.

  491. NoIdea says:


    The ground looses (sic) the heat it gains from incident sunlight in FOUR ways.
    1) By convection (by far the greatest!)
    2) By conduction to the atmospheric layer in contact with it. (Not just the CO2!)
    3) By radiating IR photons (the smallest of effects, think Thermos flask!)
    4) By Wind (a form of convection?)

    The water vapour acts as means of thermal transfer of heat or if you wish IR photons from the ground that would otherwise be stuck there.
    Waters high specific heat capacity enables it to be an effective cooling agent.
    Ergo NO GHG effect, take all sides into consideration, stop bending and breaking basic laws (see previous posts) and you will get there soon, or adapt your rhetoric somehow to meet the new criteria each failure to grasp the nettle of reality exposes?


  492. izen says:


    After seeing some of the comments here, I went and had a look at the Roddy Campbell essay half expecting a rabid green econazi tract….

    No such thing of course, just a simple exposition of the state of play in the science and the politics.
    Of course I WOULD say that as its not very far from my own position.

    1)EVENTS- There is global warming over the last century. Trace constituents of the atmosphere have a ‘greenhouse’ effect of warming the surface keeping the globe ~30degC warmer than it would be without this process. The level of the trace ‘greenhouse’ gas responsible for ~20% of this effect has risen by about 30% in the last few decades as a result of burning fossil fuels.

    2)ATTRIBUTION- Ascribing the effect of the 1degC warming to different causes is complex and controversial. The best scientific research we have indicates at least 50% of the rise can be attributed to the rise in CO2. Other possible causes fail to be credible for obvious reasons. Solar variability or the liked cosmic ray variability aren’t a factor because there has been no variability over at least half the period to drive any trend.
    The rise in CO2 however has detectable effects on the spectra and energy balance of energy emitted from the Earth and received at the surface. It also has the potential to be an effect over a long timescale.

    3)IMPACTS- These are the least predictable.
    They are dependent on the flexibility and robustness of the social/agricultural infrastructure as well as what changes are/will-be impacting civilisation.

    I find I agree with his analysis that claims there is neither the political will or ability to significantly control CO2 emissions without an economically competitive alternative to fossil fuels. If a nation DOES have the political will nuclear power can give it the ability (cf France) but the rest of the tax-cap-n-trade along with windmills and solar is froth.

    A couple of the more sophisticated Creationist websites include a list of argument NOT to use. These are arguments that are so palpably wrong and easily falsified by all but the dogmatically blinkered that Creationists are enjoined NOT to use them because it instantly labels you an idiot.

    A little parable from the past.
    A long time ago on a forum in a distant galaxy… well ten years in the US; there was a poster who consistently maintained that no object ‘B’ that was cooler than object ‘A’ and lacked any internal source of energy could by any process warm object ‘A’. He derived this claim from the law that energy always goes from the hot to the cold.
    Of course he was repeatedly challenged on this stupidity, most often by sarcastic suggestions he could therefore remove all clothing in cold weather with no change to his level of comfort. He would retort that the effect of clothes was just to stop convection and they didn’t make him warmer, just slowed down the rate he cooled….

    After new posters had refuted his stupidity and found he would still declare it they rapidly discounted ANYTHING he contributed to the discussion, not only on the subject of AGW but on any other subject as well. Even those who clearly agreed with him on a range of issues would gently suggest his assertion was ‘incomplete’ and treat him as a dubious ally.

    The result was he lost all credibility as a poster, his contributions were frequently ignored or disparaged because of his known espousal of something that was obviously nonsense.

    I have a suspicion, probably not a popular view around here, that the GE may have enabled the Roddy Campbell post to avoid becoming identified with the ‘idiot fringe’. Those that don’t just question the political responses to AGW and the scale of the impacts, but deny the best evidence for the attribution and even the unequivocal facts of the events behind AGW theory.
    The essay is a sort of – ‘here are the acceptable grounds for argument on this issue’ – the clear implication that anything else is an argument that should be avoided because it will make you look like a kook and destroy the credibility of your opinions in other areas of the field.

  493. NoIdea says:


    2 coats izen.
    Will you remember?


  494. izen says:

    NoIdea says:
    July 16, 2010 at 4:46 am
    “The ground looses (sic) the heat it gains from incident sunlight in FOUR ways.
    1) By convection (by far the greatest!)
    2) By conduction to the atmospheric layer in contact with it. (Not just the CO2!)
    3) By radiating IR photons (the smallest of effects, think Thermos flask!)
    4) By Wind (a form of convection?)”

    No, 1 and 4 alter the RATE at which thermal energy can be lost from the ground, they are NOT ‘ways’ or processes, the two processes involved are still conduction and radiation.

    I did avoid mentioning evaporation on the ‘KISS’ principle. That removes large amount of absorbed energy from the water surface without changing the temperature. There is also the melting of the ice surface, similarly a energy change with no temperature change.
    Phase change of water along with its greenhouse effect makes water the big engine in moving energy around the globe, and is the reason the equator is below boiling point and the nitrogen does not fall as snow during the polar winter.

    By the way, I would guess the quote you gave earlier was Albert, although if so it is in direct contradiction to his famous quote about “God does not play dice….” as the 2LoT is a fomalisation of probability. Its the second law after all that makes it more likely to throw a 7 with two dice than a 2 or a 12.

  495. orkneylad says:

    Geologists believe that the past is the key to the present and vice versa. It is clear that over the last 500 million years the regulatory carbon cycle has operated to balance the relative CO2 levels between the atmosphere, ocean and deposits of carbonate rocks. Somewhere between 2 and 10% of the CO2 that enters the earth’s atmosphere each year from all sources, comes from human activity. Most comes from biologic activity in the earth’s oceans or from such sources as volcanoes and decaying land plants. When CO2 reaches a certain level, the carbon cycle will remove excess CO2 by depositing limestones and increased plant growth. After all, the CO2 we are releasing into the atmosphere is not new but recycled. Why should not the carbon cycle react to the increasing levels as it has in the past? I really do not see why it would not. It may also be possible that the rise in temperature has triggered the increase in CO2 rather than the other way round. Just think of the early Carboniferous when CO2 levels were much higher than today. Huge amounts of Limestone were deposited to remove the excess CO2 and large deposits of coal removed carbon from the atmosphere. Rather than the greenhouse effect taking over, an Ice Age started in the late Carboniferous! In fact compared to other geologic times, the earth’s current atmosphere is CO2 impoverished. Just think of the methane and CO2 levels in the Precambrian. The earth did not heat up and destroy itself, plant activity was stimulated, extracting CO2 and pumping oxygen into the atmosphere.

    The theory that temperature rises with increasing CO2 doesn’t seem to be correct or indeed vice versa. If it was a simple relationship why would the temperature fall after 1940 when CO2 is rising with increased industrialisation?

    Temperature changes (from ice cores) match changes in solar activity. Changing solar activity explains the dip after 1940 and the more recent rise. Surprisingly obvious that the Sun is driving climate change and CO2 is less or largely irrelevant. The graphs produced from ice core research seem to show if anything, that C02 rises lag behind temperature rises not the other way round. Probably C02 is being released by warming of the oceans.

    However it seems the recent rise in CO2 may well be partly caused by human activity. Carbon 14 levels do appear to show that. Prior to atmospheric testing of nuclear weapons, decreases in the relative amount of carbon-14 showed that fossil fuel carbon was being added to the atmosphere. (Studies of tree rings have shown that the proportion of carbon-14 in the atmosphere dropped by about 2% between 1850 and 1954. After this time, atmospheric nuclear bomb tests distoyed this method by releasing large amounts of carbon-14.)However there appears to be no reason to panic as natural systems like the carbon sink have taken care of rising CO2 in the past. In the Devonian C02 was ten times what it is now and the earth didn’t suffer runaway heating. After the last Ice Age the temperature rose 5 degrees in 2-3 decades which caused problems for low lying coastal regions. The climate did not run away uncontrollably.

    In all the climate in the geological past seems controlled by solar activity (Milancovitch cycles and cosmic ray changes) and if there is a relationship between temperature rise and C02 rise it is certainly not a simple one. In Al Gore’s graph of the recent past he shows a direct relationship but his graph must have been manipulated as I have never seen such a perfect graph anywhere in scientific literature. It is way too perfect.

    I watched the video of Lord Monckton’s interview and don’t disagree with what he is saying. I think he is relying on information given to him rather than having made a scientific study himself. If climate scientists can’t agree which data is correct how can we lay people be sure. In any case man is too selfish to think of long term consequences so the earth will have to take care of itself as it has done for millions of years before us puny humans appeared.”

    MB Williams Msc Geophys

  496. izen says:

    @ Noidea –

    2 coats?
    Thats why I remembered and used the example from the US blog I used to frequent…

  497. orkneylad says:

    sunspots v temp anomaly:


  498. NoIdea says:

    Izen 5:25 am

    Grade F-

    Very poor work, you must try harder.
    Some more clues Sir A—– E——–
    Will you get it?


    Izen 5:34

    I am glad that SOME lessons learnt are sinking in –grin-

  499. Ozboy says:

    Morning all,

    Very busy today, but if you all move here to my new thread the page will load faster.

    Catch you all later


  500. Edward. says:


    Ergo, earth T is inextricably linked to Solar activity, which in turn heats the worlds oceans, the major influence on atmospheric temperature.
    The sun is quiescent, the oceans grow cool, a major volcanic eruption would push the earth into quite drastic cooling, as it is the influence of recent (2/5 yrs) eruptions in eastern Siberia, the Philipines and Alaska lead to SO2. volcanic dust etc (aerosols) is in the upper atmosphere (troposphere) and adds to the cooling effect, we are in for a significant cooling phase.
    Good posts sir.


  501. izen says:

    @orkneylad says:
    July 16, 2010 at 5:28 am

    ” It is clear that over the last 500 million years the regulatory carbon cycle has operated to balance the relative CO2 levels between the atmosphere, ocean and deposits of carbonate rocks. Somewhere between 2 and 10% of the CO2 that enters the earth’s atmosphere each year from all sources, comes from human activity. Most comes from biologic activity in the earth’s oceans or from such sources as volcanoes and decaying land plants. When CO2 reaches a certain level, the carbon cycle will remove excess CO2 by depositing limestones and increased plant growth. After all, the CO2 we are releasing into the atmosphere is not new but recycled. Why should not the carbon cycle react to the increasing levels as it has in the past?…”

    The carbon cycle does and it will respond to the extra CO2 that enters the cycle from burning fossil fuels. About half of the CO2 from fossil fuels IS sequestered by the biological cycle. The 30% rise has triggered a greater sequestration of carbon, if the present rate of sequestration was operating without additional carbon being added by fossil fuel burning the level of CO2 would be dropping significantly.

    It is an issue of timescales and amounts.
    Geology can indicate from past events just HOW rapidly a certain magnitude of extra carbon can be sequestered permanently. The PETM shows that it takes thousands of years for a large addition to the atmosphere to be removed. Biological processes can respond rapidly to small changes and stabilise the atmospheric levels between small variations.
    Geological processes of limestone or coal formation take much longer, but can cope with larger amounts.

    Quote-“… Just think of the early Carboniferous when CO2 levels were much higher than today. Huge amounts of Limestone were deposited to remove the excess CO2 and large deposits of coal removed carbon from the atmosphere. Rather than the greenhouse effect taking over, an Ice Age started in the late Carboniferous! In fact compared to other geologic times, the earth’s current atmosphere is CO2 impoverished. Just think of the methane and CO2 levels in the Precambrian. The earth did not heat up and destroy itself, plant activity was stimulated, extracting CO2 and pumping oxygen into the atmosphere.”

    What timescale did that Carboniferous CO2 fall take?
    The sun was also several percent less bright during the distant past, the position of the continents also plays a role in altering the transfer of energy from the equator to the poles. These are slow geological processes, not something seen in a mere century.

    Quote-” After the last Ice Age the temperature rose 5 degrees in 2-3 decades which caused problems for low lying coastal regions. The climate did not run away uncontrollably.”

    There is no suggestion that there is any runaway, uncontrolled climate risk, the worst case scenario is a return to the Carboniferous 6degC warmer ice-free poles environment.

    I would be interested in your source for the claim that at the end of the last ice-age there was a 5degC rise in just 2-3 decades?!
    Is this derived from the rate of sea level rise – which may not be a good proxy for a temperature rise but indicate the breakup of ice-caps. I was under the impression that ice-cores have a resolution of at best 50 years at 10,000 years and coral/sediment/shell analysis matches ice-cores in spreading the 6degC rise over a couple of thousand years.

    For the possible role of solar effects over the recent decadel timescale try –

    Click to access 0901.0515v1.pdf


  502. orkneylad says:

    izen – 5 degrees in 2-3 decades is nothing……..

    Last Ice Age happened in less than year say scientists
    Published Date: 02 August 2008
    By angus howarth
    THE last ice age 13,000 years ago took hold in just one year, more than ten times quicker than previously believed, scientists have warned.
    Rather than a gradual cooling over a decade, the ice age plunged Europe into the deep freeze, German Research Centre for Geosciences at Potsdam said.

    Cold, stormy conditions caused by an abrupt shift in atmospheric circulation froze the continent almost instantly during the Younger Dryas less than 13,000 years ago – a very recent period on a geological scale.

    The new findings will add to fears of a serious risk of this happening again in the UK and western Europe – and soon.

    Dr Achim Brauer, of the GFZ (GeoForschungs Zentrum) German Research Centre for Geosciences at Potsdam, and colleagues analysed annual layers of sediments, called “varves”, from a German crater lake.

    Each varve records a single year, allowing annual climate records from the region to be reconstructed.

  503. orkneylad says:

    July 16, 2010 at 6:00 am

    Start breeding huskies mate. 🙂

  504. Edward. says:

    orkneylad says:
    July 16, 2010 at 6:46 am

    OL, I am starting to think along those lines, first stop winter clothing shops:>)


  505. izen says:

    @-orkneylad says:
    July 16, 2010 at 6:36 am
    “izen – 5 degrees in 2-3 decades is nothing……..
    Last Ice Age happened in less than year say scientists
    Published Date: 02 August 2008
    By angus howarth…”

    Except this isn’t the last ice-age they are talking about, its the Younger Dryas period AFTER the warming from the glacial maximum when there was a sudden cooling of considerably less than 5degC globally.
    The main cause is usually thought to be the break-up of the Laurentian ice-cap altering the N Atlantic currents. Although I see from the link in the discussion that follows the article that there is some evidence that a meteor impact or part of a comet may have been a trigger.

    Rapid cooling from an extreme event whether meteor, volcanic or ice-cap disintegration can and does occur. But I am unaware of any past record of WARMING happening over such short timescales. What is your understanding of the timescale of the glacial maximum to present interstadial that did involve 5 degC warming before the brief cooling, mostly in the N Hemisphere, of the Younger Dryas ?

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