The Pioneer

The Lincolnshire Sniffer Dog strikes yet again!

LibertyGibbert’s Pavarotti of pictorial punditry, Fenbeagle, this week brings his historical epic forward to the Victorian era, and that greatest of all British engineers. At least, when he stuck to building railways, bridges and tunnels…

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163 Responses to The Pioneer

  1. Locusts says:

    An’ ‘ee looks loike a right gen’leman in tha’ foirs’ pictoire!

  2. NoIdea says:


    Wonderful wind filled stuff!
    The Puchoo made me laugh
    Al Gore wet and full of chuff!
    Windfarm mills that need a puff
    Surely, enough’s enough?


  3. izen says:

    Wonderful fenbeagle.

    May I ask if it would be acceptable to try a little 3D modeling of these – full credit of course!

    Did you know that the Al Goracle is not all that allegorical…

  4. theunbrainwashed says:

    Voo Doo Choo Choo Made me Piss masel…..
    What a mess!
    Ach well……


  5. fenbeagle says:

    After your Wind Donkey animation….. it would be an honour!

    Let me know Izen, I’ll put it up on your page – Oz

  6. scud1 says:

    Magnificent as usual Fen!

  7. Walt O'Bruin says:

    Fenbeagle, that’s amazing and wonderful, as ever.

    If I may, I would like to forward this on to Dr. Robert Peltier, the editor of “Power Magazine,” a McGraw-Hill publication, and to Jason Hayes, editor of “American Coal Magazine.”

    Izen, they are still laughing about your windmill powered wellhead pump over at the blog for the energy exploration and development digital-modeling seismological trade journal “Digital Energy.”

  8. fenbeagle says:

    Thanks…..Please do!

  9. realityreturns says:

    Brilliant Fen…..hehehehehe

  10. Pointman says:

    Brilliant stuff Fen!


  11. Ozboy says:

    I’m a steam locomotive buff and regard the Broad Gauge “Iron Duke” class 8-foot singles as some of the most beautifully-executed of all the Great Western locos, if not one of the most beautiful machines full stop. Form and fitness embodied: a piece of sculpture as well as a working implement. Well-executed Fen.

    But to see that second-rate charlatan Pachoochoo on top of it is a #$&!@^# blasphemy.

  12. Hi, Fenbeagle.

    The American Coal Council’s journal editor now has the link to this page, and probably coffee all over his monitor and keyboard by now, too.

    I am sending out the link to Power Magazine shortly. Please be advised they have a long history of buying such fine artwork in support of their articles and editorial stance. Please go to and look up back articles under the title “Marmaduke Surfaceblow,” a recurring character going back to the 1910’s who offered advice on boiler and gas turbine technology as a fictional power plant operator/manager/chief engineer.

    Um, McGraw-Hill pays pretty good, I am told.

  13. Amanda says:

    ‘Pavarotti of pictorial punditry’ — Oz, I like that!

    Are you the Liberace of literary lucidity? Sorry, maybe it oughter to be Liszt — but I wanted three syllables!

  14. Amanda says:

    Fen, I love it. I love the Al Goracle, and the Fenbeagle in his hamster-wheel self-propelled Airator. Also the fact that Huhne is smoking a hoo stick. Clearly, bad for the brain.

    Since your work is so wonderful, and ought to be marred by no distractions, may I just point out that ‘independence’ has all Es. The buys in ‘Al Gore buy’s’ shouldn’t have an apostrophe (i.e. there’s no possession or elision). But world in ‘worlds first sub’ *should* have an apostrophe (possession). Then it will be perfect. Cheers, Amanda

  15. ozboy just to make you a little jealous the original railway line ever built for a working steam locomotive and commercial traffic the Stockton to Darlington built in 1825 was only a few miles from my home village. As built by The George Stephenson well navvies actually built the line but you get the idea, sorry it was only standard gauge. Alas it was retired some time ago which is a pity as it would be a big tourist draw for locomotive buffs.

    I am jealous, Crown.

    If any of you ever visit Tasmania, this is worth a visit, as one of the world’s more spectacular train rides – Oz

  16. Amanda says:

    which is a pity as it would be a big tourist draw for locomotive buffs.
    Crown: oh god, not the dreaded train-spotter!

  17. fenbeagle says:


  18. Amerloque says:

    Good morning, Everyone !

    USA Today is reporting this morning (Wednesday September 29, 2010, datelined Sepotember 28, 2010)

    Sep 28, 2010

    Study: Wind could generate half of East Coast’s power

    Offshore wind has so much potential off the U.S. Atlantic coast that with modest investments, it could generate nearly half the current electricity supply in East Coast states, says a report today by an ocean conservation group.

    It could provide 30% more energy, at a competitive price, than offshore oil and gas combined and could create 133,000 and 212,000 U.S. jobs annually, according to the report by Oceana, an international non-profit.

    “Our research revealed that harnessing offshore wind power in Atlantic waters is a much more cost-effective way to generate energy than oil and gas drilling,” said Jacqueline Savitz, Oceana senior campaign director and analysis co-author.

    The report says offshore wind could meet 100% of the electricity currently generated in Delaware, Massachusetts and North Carolina, 92% of that in New Jersey, 83% in Virginia and 64% in South Carolina.

    The original study (which USA Today does _not_ give) can be found at:


  19. Amerloque says:

    Hello Fen !

    Very well done ! Encore ! (smile)


  20. NoIdea says:

    From the Daily Mail…

    “Because wind is intermittent, the National Grid is forced to rely on a fleet of gas and coal power stations to back up the supply when the wind fails.”

    Read more:

    Of course regulars here will know that this is old news. (H/T The artist formally known as (insert as applicable) Bear)

    On a slightly different topic…
    Whatever happened to Charlie Skelton?


  21. meltemian says:

    Fen – you are fantastic.
    ‘Fraid this is the best competition for Crown I can come up with from MY ex-county
    (no trains here on Corfu – well there is the “Noddy Train” that tours the town for tourists but that doesn’t count)

  22. fenbeagle says:

    I wonder why it is, that so many people like to see steam coming from railway trains. (Lots of it preferably) And yet, so many people dislike seeing steam coming from anything else? (especially cooling towers)….. I feel the same way myself.
    Perhaps we should make power stations that move? It would resolve all the issues about where they should be placed. And make it harder for objectors to attack them.
    Perhaps they should be designed to look like large stately cruise liners, slowly cruising around the coast (and offering passage, of course)
    How would the electricity be transferred to the grid though? Didn’t Tesla have some thoughts on that?

  23. Locusts says:


    I really think you may be on to something there.

    Are smokers on rollerskates beautiful in a way that stationary smokers are not? Would smog be a thing of beauty if it was held banner like above a city inching its way around the land on giant rails? And of course there are forest fires too?

    Or is plain old smoke just the ugly sister of the schizophrenic steam?

  24. orkneylad says:

    Noidea – Whatever happened to Charlie Skelton?

    Propping up a highway somewhere?
    Nothing would surprise me……

  25. Fenbeagle, you’re on with Dr. Peltier at Power Magazine now. Let’s see what happens. They are gracious folks whose readers build as we speak 100,000 HP and up “steam engines” such as nuke reactors and combined cycle gas turbine plants with the steam engines as topping or bottoming cycle stages.

    At their site, to see similar artwork to yours going back to the 19th century (Power Magazine I think started up in 1885 or so), just enter Marmaduke into the search engine for their site. I think you will find a kindred spirit in that artwork.

    I don’t fink enough thought has been given to the “icky” factor as to why people hate stationary steam plants. Maybe if they painted them pink LOL

  26. NoIdea says:
    September 29, 2010 at 6:36 pm

    No one wants to say in the press how reliant intermittent non-disatchable non-load following power is on dispatchable thermal sources of power (including nuke), so I guess I will have to (sigh):

    A. For any electrical grid, wind, solar and other intermittent power sources cannot exceed the ratio of 20% ACTUAL output (not nameplate rating) of the core thermal grid, or the entire grid is down owing to congestion, variable output problems, and/or reliance on the wind and/or sun being there. That is not theory, that has been empirically modeled on several scales going back to a fellow called Ericsson who made solar steam gensets in the 1860’s through 1890’s.

    B. When a component of the grid, intermittent power sources require the thermal generators to commit a minimum of 10% of their total output to simply regulating as a control box mechanism the fluctuating output of fickle intermittents. This is rather like the power steering on your car requiring 10% of automotive engine output just to function.

    C. At present, again empirically speaking to today in real time, intermittents provide very clearly the capacity to run the entire grid broke in a very short period of time, reliant as they are on government subsidies always exceeding their net value per KwHr contribution to the grids’ customers. This little problem has still not been solved and provides no prospect yet of being soluble.

    D. No one yet in the renewables business except the landfill gas folks have even lifted a finger to treat CO2 as a recyclable resource on the order of recycling steel, copper or aluminium like Luigi and Piotr’s scrapyard would do. To treat it that way means the end of academic freeloading and dole dollars for bushy people wearing sandals who always know better than you do, and would require the entire renewables industry to pay its own way without scrounging off the long-suffering public.

    I think Luigi and Piotr are the wave of the future for this entire alternative energy routine, and believe me, it won’t be pretty except to people like me LOL I always thought the Italy of the Medici’s a bit of a lark for those who genuinely relish competition. Better than the SuperBowl, really. They’ve a talent for dealing with socialists of proven worth.

  27. Non-dispatchable. :>p More coffee, please….

  28. It’ll be sort of like “The Sopranos” meets “Star Trek” LOL

    I need also to add that according to the documents I am handling, above 4 gig’s intermittent output, for every gig of that added to the grid, 10% of that rated output has to be supplied to the grid for control purposes. It isn’t linear addition of percentages, it’s compound interest, as it were. In theory then it is perfectly possible to have a need for 100% and more of thermal power on-hand to control of a very large intermittent power source.

    So it is a case of the law of diminishing returns on a nightmare scale, where the larger the intermittent grid grows, the less economic and efficient it becomes, which of course the Europeans have already found out, and we already know.

    And of course the greentards knew from Day One. Ah, sweet Muse of Retribution, step forth to cast your flowers of evil hither and yon.

  29. To “10% of that rated output has to be supplied to the grid for control purposes” should also be added “in the form of thermal control power output.”

  30. Amerloque says:

    Well, well.

    One of Amerloque’s offspring was futzing around on Craigslist (to sell a computer no longer needed) and recommended that Papa check the non-profit help want ads … gosh, haven’t these jokers been accusing “deniers” of the following ? (grin)


    FT Work for Greenpeace to STOP GLOBAL WARMING – $12-$13/hr*

    ‘All that takes for evil to prevail, is for good people to do nothing.’

    Get Involved! Call now (312) 283-0621

    Greenpeace is hiring individuals to join our Frontline fundraising team. The pay is $12-$13 per hour plus bonus and benefits. The best employees looking for careers are trained to manage Greenpeace offices or local campaign work.

    Greenpeace is an equal opportunity employer and strongly encourages applications from people of all ages, color, persons with disabilities, women, LGBT applicants..

    full-time, students, grads, graduates, environment, environmental, social change, progressive, global warming, peace, summer, year-round, amazon, forests, toxic technology, learn, career, principles, Greenpeace, green, oil dependence, renewable energy ///


    ///Are you looking to make a change in the world?

    Greenpeace is currently recruiting City Coordinators to build its grassroots power.

    GREENPEACE is the world’s largest organization standing up for the environment and disarmament. We are a global group of activists committed to stopping global warming, protecting ancient forests, preserving our oceans, and protecting communities from toxic threats.

    GLOBAL WARMING IS NOW. From melting glaciers to rising sea levels, people around the world are threatened because of our reliance on dirty fossil fuels. Our government has been slow to support renewable energy because they are largely influenced by Big Oil and Big Coal.


    Greenpeace runs canvass offices in fourteen US cities and we are looking to grow. That means we are hiring new city coordinators! City Coordinators are responsible for hiring, training and managing a team of excited Greenpeace canvassers who recruit tens of thousands of long term supporters who contribute the resources that keep Greenpeace winning our national and international campaigns. We are looking for individuals with experience in canvass management or other relevant management experience who are excited to build Greenpeace power and presence in the United States.

    Visit Our Website

    We receive hundreds of applications whenever we grow our management team so we are looking for those individuals who will commit to working with us on the ground in an office for a period of time in order to demonstrate their full potential. Greenpeace managers are also selected for their demonstrated ability to work well in a team and distinguish themselves through their leadership attributes. Training is provided at every step of this process so that we can provide the best leadership roles to the best applicants. During the period that management applicants are working in an office they are paid as an hourly canvasser.

    City Coordinators make 30,000+ salary. Upon commencement in the city coordinator role, the employee is eligible for full health, dental, and vision coverage under the employer’s Health Maintenance Organization (HMO) plan at the employer’s expense. Alternatively, the employee is eligible for Preferred Provider Option (PPO) health and dental coverage at a cost of 50% of the employer’s contribution. Dependents of the employee may purchase coverage under the same plan at full cost.

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  31. Nice to see WW I has ended just in time for WW III to start, wot?

  32. Amerloque, that’s how the Jerries recruited amongst the starving during the Weimar Republic for the SA and NSDAP. Charming.

  33. The difference being you could get an “honest” day’s work out of a Jerry. There’s still hope.

  34. Amerloque says:

    Hi Stearman / Jenny Loving Bear !
    September 29, 2010 at 11:40 pm

    Oh, yes: same with the failed reporter Muso. (sigh) The Spartakists did the same thing in Germany.

    At least in the 60s demos/counterculture people weren’t being paid … in cash, at any rate. (grin) Sex and weed, perhaps. (wider grin)


  35. Edward. says:

    I think you play fast and lose with our senses Sir!

    I deem that you Sir! ……Are extracting the very essence of one’s urinary process.

    It’s all really rather good Sir! I salute you!


  36. Wistful Bear says:


    Do you fancy Musil, Doblin and Mann? Good stuff on a winter’s night by the fire with a talll one with the winds howling….

  37. Wistful Bear says:

    It’s nice to see the spirits of Grosz, Heartfield, Dix, Simplicissimus and Low are reincarnated in your works, Fenbeagle.

    Bit of a sticky wicket, though, wot?

  38. Wistful Bear says:

    But, as was once said and artfully illustrated before: “Very well then. Alone!”

  39. Wistful Bear says:

    Of course, the Commonwealth at the time was a fairly substantial “Alone.” LOL

  40. Wistful Bear says:

    Just substitute “the International Jewish Bolshevik Conspiracy” for “Global Warming” and Bob’s yer uncle.

  41. Walt O'Bruin says:

    I know, yet another terminal instance of Godwin’s syndrome.

    I haven’t given up on that article I mentioned to you privately either Walt, I’m just snowed under at the moment (literally and figuratively); I’ll let you know – Oz

  42. Mountaingorilla says:

    Great artwork, FenBeagle. The obvious thing to do is for all the readers of libertygibbert to inundate Greenpeace HQ with their CVs and apply for the jobs….

  43. Walt O'Bruin says:

    Looking forward to it, Ozboy, and to Pointman’s paintings.

  44. Walt O'Bruin says:


    THEN sue them for not hiring us because of our points of view LOL

  45. Pointman says:

    Walt O’Bruin says:
    September 30, 2010 at 5:12 am

    Should be a couple of daubings in your transactions email.


  46. Walt O'Bruin says:

    Got ’em Pointman. Any chance of a re-shoot of them in direct sunlight with a slight overcast without the flash but straight on? They’re angled quite a bit to dodge the flash reflection, I reckon.

  47. Walt O'Bruin says:

    the unbrainwashed,

    No more electric choo choo trains for you today LOL I love your posting.

  48. Pointman says:

    Walt O’Bruin says:
    September 30, 2010 at 6:39 am

    You’re right Walt, just avoiding the flash. Stick them up as they are and I’ll try for something better in future (and a better selection).



  49. Hello, Pointman. Here they are. I did a bit of image processing, hope you don’t mind:

  50. Pointman says:

    Photoshop Bear says:
    September 30, 2010 at 7:44 am

    Thanks Walt, it’s a self portrait of a youngerish me. Difficult to see though …


    Marvellous! The talent round here seems boundless – Oz

  51. ozboy I forgot you can see replicas of the earliest steam engines at Beamish Museum back home….
    Both fully working copies. Loved the awesome railway line reminds me of the train that takes you up Mont Blanc.

    Amanda unfortunately you have trains you get train spotters easily spotted in well worn anoraks.

    They’re on my to-do list next time I’m in Britain – Oz

  52. It’s a trifle difficult to get properly focused when you shoot the pic at an angle to avoid the flash’s glare.

    The style reminds me very much of the fine portrait done of T.S. Eliot by the British Vorticist Wyndham Lewis and the work done by Ben Nicolson as well, except this work has a heart and human warmth attached, none of the museum vault-like rigidity and distance one associates with the above artists.

  53. As I look at it, and Lewis in another tab, it’s actually technically better.

  54. Lewis was like Pound and Joyce and Brecht, they all had lady friends or wives who did the tough stuff like editing and for no credit acknowledgement. Anything Lewis did on his own was half-done. A classic bully, really, he was.

  55. Pointman says:

    Thanks Walt,

    Considering the slanty out-of-focus stuff I sent you (courtest of my camera phone), you’ve made them amazingly presentable. Thank you also for the compliment. I like to paint people because that’s what I love and I don’t have the patience to be a good photographer.


  56. Walt O'Bruin says:

    No problem, and you are welcome. As I managed to use my compression software, the images are only 13700 bits in size each until they expand when you click on them, so I’ve room for lots more. Bring ’em on!

  57. Pointman says:

    Walt O’Bruin says:
    September 30, 2010 at 8:28 am

    Walt, you’re in that dangerous position where you show a smidgen of a hint of an interest in someone else’s holiday slides. You could be trapped there all night …


  58. Dr. Dave says:


    I have to say I LOVE your JUKEBOX feature. As I warned, I’ve made a pig of my self and posted several offerings this afternoon. This is a GREAT idea and I encourage all LG readers to avail themselves of this fine attribute to this site.


    Thanks for reminding me Dave – I needed to flush the older entries – Oz

  59. Pointman says:

    Glitch in the RasTrix. You there Walt?


  60. Amanda says:

    Wow, Pointman. Really interesting self-portrait. First it’s a glossy sort of being who clearly has light shining on him but is giving light off at the same time — almost preternaturally so. The whole look is somewhat luxurious. You could title it ‘Plenty’ and that would work (in my opinion, of course).

  61. Amanda says:

    And the child is very much like that too (interesting contrast between the full/3D sort of face and the relatively flatter/2D shirt). You clearly have a style, recognizable. Intimate subjects but the style is ‘outgoing’ and assertive. A bit like you, really! Intense.

  62. Amanda says:

    P: What else you got?

  63. Amanda says:

    To you as invaluable facilitator, thanks! And thanks also for your gracious comments to me on the previous thread, if I did not say so then.

  64. Amanda says:

    Pointman: I keep thinking of your portrait and how it reminds me (ballpark) of Jim Croce. Is that awful? Not your sort of music, I expect. He wasn’t John Denver, anyway*. I liked ‘IGot A Name’. He had a very good voice. Unless your self-portrait flatters you unduly, you’re better-looking.

    *Though come to think of it, what’s wrong with the sunny ‘Rocky Mountain High’ or ‘Sunshine On My Shoulders’. I’ll listen again after many years. Maybe I’ll cringe!

  65. Walt O'Bruin says:

    Pointman says:
    September 30, 2010 at 8:35 am

    That’s okay. NZ is gorgeous, not surprised the Japs wanted it (and still do). BTW, Adagio for Strings was written in 1939 as a lament in response to the common knowledge that WW II was forthcoming. It was the apogee of arrogance to associate it with the Viet Nam conflict irrevocably.

    You are quite welcome. It is fun to chat with you.

  66. Amanda says:

    Hello Dave.
    Hello Ozboy.

    The only problem with the Jukebox — or posting to it — and this is why I have tended to forget — is that often one wants to make a musical statement as part of one’s post, to round out what you’ve said or to respond to what someone else has said/posted. If you have to direct them to some other part of the website, it breaks up the flow and detracts from your point.

    Of course, this is Oz’s blog and we are, to a great extent, camping out on his grounds and availing ourselves of his [your] generous hospitality. It’s just that it’s hard to remember that at absolutely every moment.

    Wonderful blog, Oz. Really. It’s a full-throated enterprise and you are a wonderful captain thereof.

  67. Amanda says:

    re: the above:
    you = one

  68. Amanda says:

    Walt O’Fun Fair Bear:

    Where did you get your avatar? Did you somehow create it?

  69. Amanda says:

    Wistful Bear: Please see also the previous thread, would you?

  70. Amanda says:

    This thread is like Karl Marx’s tombstone after the lovers have gone home.


  71. Pointman says:

    A person once asked me to paint his portrait. I refused, pointing out that it was an interest and not what I did for a living. He increased his offer. I refused. He increased his offer again. I refused. “So what’s the number?” he asked. Everyone has a number. I told him I’d paint him for free and it would be what I saw. That was that.


    I’ve taken the liberty of posting your artwork here as well, Pointy. You can navigate to it fron the Rare Scribbling menu at the top of the page, or just click here – Oz

  72. Pointman says:

    That time of night in Wallawoora and a good number to greet die Konigin der Nacht. Night


  73. Amanda says:

    Lovely song, Pointman.

  74. rastech says:

    Bleedin marvellous Fen!

    I’m a bit fond of steam too – being born and raised on it (dad was a Station Master when was a kid, and I used to have rides and shovel breakfasts on the shunter, helped shovel coal into the firebox on a few ‘big uns’ too (well, as a nipper, I’d throw the odd lump in when the door was open).

    Loved visiting signal boxes with dad as well.

    The whole ‘railway thing’ used to have wonderful smells associated with it too. Even the embankment fires that had to be put out had an excitement about them.

  75. Amanda says:

    Rastech: funny, I do believe that ‘nipper’ is an old Navy term for the young lads that helped weigh anchor etc. In the more general meaning of young, able helper, it fits not only your age at the time but your (casual) role.

  76. Walt O'Bruin says:

    Amanda says:
    September 30, 2010 at 11:07 am

    I painted it.

    Oh goodness, my dear. Do you mean you’ve never seen my masterwork “The Spirit of ’68 Being Assaulted from Behind By A Zombie Drowned Polar Bear?” It’s my portrayal of Jane Fonda of that era (she has left that sort of “Off the Man” stuff far behind and instead raised an excellent son named Josh as well as two daughters). My thoughts now is that she went to Hanoi to scope out the North Viet Nam anti-aircraft emplacements and to make sure Charlie wasn’t going to use the POW’s as human shields. She went there in July of 72, Operation Linebacker II took place in December 1972, which air raid–the largest single air raid in history for tonnage dropped– I supported as ground crew for its entire duration. After that raid we got our POW’s back.

    But I also believe J. Edgar Hoover was Stalin’s greatest spy, but that’s another movie…

  77. Locusts says:

    Great pictures Pointman!

  78. Walt O'Bruin says:

    The cabin boy, the cabin boy,
    The dirty little nipper…

    And if you can complete the rest of that you are former Royal Navy or who have friends that are.

  79. Locusts says:

    I may have to come up with a new name for the Good Doctor:

    6 hours ago
    Recommended by
    4 people
    “There’s never been a nuclear war (or at least noone *actually knows* of one happening).”

    Say what!?
    Ask the peoples of Hiroshima and Nagaski if they know of one having happened.

    Nuclear war is a real threat to be guarded against because nuclear attack is not merely “plausible”: it is demonstrated.

    AGW is implausible, has no precedent, and its existence is not supported by any empirical evidence.

    We have many real problems which need to be guarded against in this world and the possibility of nuclear attack is one of them. Squandering efforts and reources on the hypothetical threat of AGW distracts from guaeding against real and known threats.

    Which world do you live on?


    5 hours ago
    “AGW is implausible, has no precedent, and its existence is not supported by any empirical evidence.”

    Climate has changed in the past a lot. At times it has changed rapidly and abruptly. We don’t have a perfect model of the climate to understand how it will react to us poking it for sure. Therefore it is plausible that climate will change rapidly and abruptly in response. It’s similarly plausible that out of the thousands of complex interconnected systems in climate and the biosphere there will be one or more that are detrimentally affected by any changes.

    5 hours ago
    Recommended by
    4 people

    5 hours ago
    Recommended by
    2 people

    I am saying that constraints on anthropogenic CO2 concentrations would have horrific consequences.

    So, no such constraints should be imposed until
    (a) we have some indication of some kind that the emissions are harmful (n.b. CO2 is plant food so has known benefits)
    (b) we have some indication that the the harm of the emissions is likely to outweigh the harm of constraining them.

    Since this seems beyond your ability to understand, let me try an analogy.

    6 people are killed on the roads of Britain per day.
    But Britain does not ban cars because the harm (i.e. number of fatalities) from that would be greater than 6 people per day.
    Get it?

    And these are deaths that do occur from using cars.
    Any deaths from AGW are hypothetical because AGW is hypothetical.
    Get it?

    So no constraints on CO2 emissions should be made unless and until AGW has some evidence for its existence.
    Get it?


    It shouldn’t be too long before he starts trading some fruity insults now…

  80. Walt O'Bruin says:

    Amanda says:
    September 30, 2010 at 11:18 am

    Please also see previous thread, madame.

  81. Walt O'Bruin says:


    Two bombs dropped however large by one side do not a war make. a war generally involves a concerted mutual campaign of the exchange of roughly equivalent capabilities. Ergo, Richard is right in that respect. Of course there hasn’t been a nuclear war yet. We wouldn’t be here if there had been, not with anything less than three heads each, at a minimum.

  82. Walt O'Bruin says:

    I should also point out that this is the golden age of bombastically absurd exaggeration without parallel in history. This also is a side effect and inherent characteristic of the InterNet.

  83. Locusts says:


    We are the first generation with the internet, I’m sure later generations will settle down a little.

  84. Locusts says:

    Nice picture here, although the Guard almost looks photoshopped in.

  85. Walt O'Bruin says:

    Gee, Locusts, you don’t think the people are trying to tell their governments something, do you?

    The one thing most cognitively dissonant about the Obama administration (small a) is that at the same time the economies of the West which either had not experienced severe damage from the downturn or were determined to take the problem on head-on swung to the Right, we here somehow elected a leftist, the form of government predominant in the Ewe.

    Police look like kid’s spaceman toys today. Pathetic. I am trying to imagine our old MP unit in that get-up. Maybe for Halloween. Maybe on line doing a can-can when severely disabled by intensely psychotoxic liquid hydrocarbons.

  86. Walt O'Bruin says:

    Poor guy. Should have brought along marshmallows and a stick.

  87. Walt O'Bruin says:

    He’s probably wearing women’s underwear under that getup.

  88. Walt O'Bruin says:

    Locusts says:
    September 30, 2010 at 2:35 pm

    I know I won’t. LOL

  89. Locusts says:

    Yes Walt, the policeman looks like a bit of a tool in that get-up.

    On another note,
    I always knew that association with this website entailed a certain risk, but I never thought it would result in Trolls calling me a Tazzie:

    2 weeks ago
    Recommended by
    1 person
    It’s amazing what one can buy on ebay these days.

    2 weeks ago
    Yes, a lot of things can be bought, monetarily, or in kind and in trade, INCLUDING YOU AND YOURSELF.

    So much for Libertarianism eh?! (No connection with or to you of course!)

    Even a Socialist Social Security Net and a Socialist Medical Health Care system/systems are not as bad as it sounds or as one would like to think,

    Considering that the level of how a and one particular person has lowered himself, himself or herself, and that how a and one particular person has reduced himself, himself or herself, into.

    But then a/an Tasmanian/Australian PEASANT has to do what a/an Tasmanian/Australian PEASANT has to do!
    (Not addressing to, and of no relation, to either you or to me of course!)

    Not so sure about the Chinese in these days, with the Boom of and possibly with some Bubbles of theirs,

    But both the Australian peasant and peasants, and the Vietnamese peasant and peasants, wear hats, HATS, as a symbol, as symbols, that THEY ARE PEASANTS, and do they not?!

    Complete gibberish of course, but there you are, in someone’s eyes I’m a Hat Wearing Tazmanian Peasant!

    You got a link to that? – Oz

  90. Walt O'Bruin says:

    Simple solution: find the fat controller, drop half a dozen huntsman spiders down the front of his trousers, nail one of his feets to the floor, then go have zee lunch.

  91. Walt O'Bruin says:

    Perhaps beef broccoli takeaway.

  92. Walt O'Bruin says:

    Solly. I meant “beef blacorry.”

  93. Walt O'Bruin says:


    “I’m a Hat Wearing Tazmanian Peasant!”

    No you’re not, you’re Pool Hall Richard. Can’t believe we were ever this young, wot?

  94. Pointman says:

    “Gillard’s climate committee – only warmists need apply”

    At the end of the day, Gillard is a fanatic and therefore has the fanatic’s inherant weakness; they simply don’t know how to stop. With such a slender majority, it will be her undoing.


  95. Pointman says:

    The Royal Society repositioning itself. Newton no longer spinning in his grave …


  96. fenbeagle says:

    Hats are a symbol of being a Peasant?…
    This theory was disproved in the early 19th century, when Napoleon, wearing his largest hat ever, first heard about it. Suspecting it was true, but not wishing to mention it to his Imperial Guard (now wearing the tallest bearskins of any army). Decided instead to progressively reduce the size of his own hat, and hope nobody noticed. (Another theory has it, that he simply noticed people were shooting at him)
    General Wellesley however, solved the problem by becoming the Duke of Wellington, and therefore an aristocrat. The shooting problem he solved, by replacing his red Field Marshals uniform, with a loose fitting blue civilian frock coat (and wearing body armour, underneath it.)
    The matter came to a head at Waterloo, when Napoleon, after defeating General Blucher (who wore a smaller hat) at Ligny. And pushing Wellington back at Quatre Bras. None the less was denied his hat trick victory at Waterloo, by Wellington now wearing a much larger hat.

  97. Pointman says:

    When Mr. Wellesley said of Waterloo, it was a damn close run thing, I think he was refering to dear old Blucher’s help. 72 years old and leading the Prussian charge. That was truly an age of extraordinary people.


  98. Amanda says:


    …he got a d*mn good rogering
    which made the captain chipper


    Fits, anyway!

    And lemme guess, the title is ‘Roger the Cabin Boy’.

  99. Pointman says:

    In memoriam. When he was good, he was very good. One of the sharpest movies ever made. Watch him working.


  100. Walt O'Bruin says:

    Amanda says:
    September 30, 2010 at 11:43 pm

    Erm, close enough LOL!

    Wonder if Ozboy and Locusts are through slaughtering anti-Oz hatmongerers (sic) yet.

    Yet another actor possessed of presence and an orientation toward quality rather than agendum bites the dust. Comedy was and is three times harder to do for usually half the money, too.

  101. Walt O'Bruin says:

    His equally skilled daughter now sits in the Lords, I fink. She actually gets involved in British politics from what I understand, nor is she a Lady Astor in the negative sense either.

  102. Walt O'Bruin says:

    Ah, Panda At War has returned to the Delirium Tremens, my evil nemesis Bwahahahaha.

    It’s almost time to re-enter the DT fray after 4 months of peace.

  103. Pointman says:

    A great white contemplates a dip in the tiddlers pool …


  104. Walt O'Bruin says:

    Hi, Pointy. Just looking at possible after-dinner mints, or possibly a fortune cookie LOL
    Zombie drowned polar bears cannot live by big-eyed baby seal brains alone.

    Did you see the Marilyn Monroe gallery over at the DT, BTW? There’s Marilyn getting a bear hug from my grandfather. Eeriness. I painted my masterpiece above, and posted it initially in March or April of this year.

  105. meltemian says:

    Gosh Walt your Grandaddy looks happy (who wouldn’t) but those claws look pretty fearsome!

  106. Pointman says:

    Walt O’Bruin says:
    October 1, 2010 at 2:25 am

    Hi Walt, amazing pictures alright. How they managed to train a Grizzly bear with claws like that, to rip her dress off without injuring her is beyond me.


  107. Walt O'Bruin says:

    Bears are pretty good at sorting out minor technicalities when it comes important matters. Otherwise, I wouldn’t be here LOL

  108. Amanda says:

    Walt, that’s very unmusical singing from Rod. It all sounds like the same note.

    Wonderful-looking man, though, and still is. Speaking of hats, his hear is like a slimline built-in blond bearskin. ‘Do ya think I’m sexy?’ Is that a serious question??? [No, otherwise he wouldn’t be pretending to ask!]

  109. Amanda says:

    hair, I meant.

    Where the heck did ‘hear’ come from? Maybe it’s from thinking ‘rhymes with bear’.

  110. Amanda says:

    BTW Cosmopolitan Bear, your other links don’t connect to anything. Maybe it’s just my computer. But I can’t think how.

  111. Amanda says:

    Okay, never mind, I can see the zombie bear picture now. Was it inspired by a dream you had or does it express a bizarre erotic fantasy? Or don’t I want to know? LOL

  112. Walt O'Bruin says:

    Hi, Amanda. It came from realizing that the self-appointed guardians of nature usually have never done serious time in the bush, then the follow-on urge to let others know this fact. I know a bit about how critters get along out in No People Land, and they aren’t zippity doodah little pals of humankind in any way shape or form or of anything else that is a bit out of the ordinary to them LOL All territory they currently occupy is theirs, in their minds, and they are not shy about defending it, especially if they have little ones in tow.

    Two rules for all big critters you might surprise: don’t look them in the eye, and the best you can do is to raise both arms and scream loudly. They almost always run however big they are.

    Whatever you do, do not turn and run unless it is already moving at you at speed, then the best thing is to do a lateral instead of running straight away.

    Rule Number One, really, is take a big shooter with you when you go to talk to the animals. They speak a language all critters understand with no translation necessary.

  113. Walt O'Bruin says:

    It is all minor variations on the same notes in a tight range, too. Tain’t opera. Fund days, sometimes, living back then.

  114. Pointman says:

    There’s an interesting spam bot working the DT. Automated non-sensical postings at regular intervals interspersed with real ones. Quite clever but the motivation is beyond me.


  115. So that’s why David Grocott has been busy and otherwise occupied. Any takers on bets?

  116. Pointman says:

    Thinking about it, the objective is obvious. You’ll always find complete rubbish on the first page of the blog, pushing the real discussion onto page 2 and therefore out of sight. Clever. I’m amazed what whatever passes for IT support at the DT hasn’t closed it off.


  117. Pointman says:

    Lord help us, some of the posters there are actually replying to it.


  118. NoIdea says:

    Helium Dreams

    Lustrous curls come out in grey
    Spambot spam bot, what will you say?
    Wistfully tedious parrot play
    Helium powered Java jay
    High professional, did you lay?
    Set at six and six if you may

    I just knocked this up, to test the heliumlady at the telegraph, what will it make of it?


  119. Pointman says:

    NoIdea says:
    October 1, 2010 at 6:30 am

    Hi NI, it was on a 10 min loop, then a 6 min loop and looks to have gone to a 4 min loop. It’s a poor piece of programming.


  120. Amanda says:

    Walt: You know whereof you speak.

    My brilliant idea — or not — when portaging through the Canadian wilderness (Algonquin, no relation to AlGore), was to wear a pealess whistle. It was bloody loud, and I figured that if a bear showed up, I would go deaf but at least the bear would disappear. However, half the time (while actually portaging), my entire head was covered with a bug net, elasticated at the neck and tented from the top of the head. Not exactly what the swimsuit model for this month is wearing. (Mosquitoes loved me, as did black flies: thinner skin and hardly any hair to fight through: yummy!) So how exactly I proposed to a) spot the bear, b) get out of my head burqa quickly, and c) find enough puff in my sheer panic to blow the whistle, were all questions I never answered. However, we did hang our food pack at night from a tree, and obviously I survived the experience. (Made a lovely dessert with the blueberries when I got home, too. Bears like blueberries.)

  121. Amanda says:

    P and W:
    If you’re talking about ‘Helium Lady’, I sent the flare up 100 years ago on that one. Not that I thought it was a non-person. Just that I could tell instantly it was a time-wasting pulling-our-chain not-even-troll-quality person. It called me a bitch. Obviously didn’t like having its bluff called!

  122. Pointman says:

    Amanda says:
    October 1, 2010 at 6:59 am

    Hiya A, yes there’s an occasional intervention by the spambot’s operator. All the rest is automated. Interesting how their beliefs push the zealots into behaviour like that.


  123. izen says:

    @-Locusts says: September 30, 2010 at 1:47 pm
    “I may have to come up with a new name for the Good Doctor:”

    Well ‘Doctor’ isn’t one of them.
    There is no evidence, or claim by Richard Courtney that he is a doctor of anything. He MAY have a Dip.Phil, but that is a DIPLOMA in philosophy, not a doctorate. Given that he is a religious preacher it may be a qualification from a theology college, it isn’t from Cambridge university as is sometimes suggested…
    I knew I had come across RC before, Eli has the back-story….

    Richard Courtney via Locust –
    Quote-“I am saying that constraints on anthropogenic CO2 concentrations would have horrific consequences.”

    As so often RC says stuff but doesn’t do much to back it up

    Quote-“…Since this seems beyond your ability to understand, let me try an analogy.
    6 people are killed on the roads of Britain per day.
    But Britain does not ban cars because the harm (i.e. number of fatalities) from that would be greater than 6 people per day.
    Get it? ”

    Interesting analogy.
    The UK has one of the better figures for fatalities per vehicle mile, mainly because of constraints placed on the motorist. Speed limits and road design and the highway code are all constraints that evolve from a communal consensus of how car use should be undertaken.

    Would RC advocate abandoning these safety constraints, perhaps because the pattern and cause of road deaths is far to complex to model accurately?

  124. Amanda says:

    I’ve hit ‘report’ on a number of its posts (though not every last one, partly because a mod might say that one or two are intelligible etc.). Most of them (fortunately) sound like raving loony time — indeed, spam — and the mods should not tolerate that. We’ll see how long they do.
    BTW I’ve had that song you posted last night on the brain! Probably because I nearly fell asleep last night listening to it. Cheers.

  125. Pointman says:

    Amanda says:
    October 1, 2010 at 8:28 am

    The Poet’s song?


  126. Amanda says:

    P: Yes. Very evocative. Never heard of the group, but then I’m not very ‘up’ on contemporary groups.

  127. Pointman says:

    Icarus slimes in whingeing after yet another bloody good kicking administered by The Good Doctor. What’s he on about? Oh yes, he’s attacking the man rather than his arguments. Very grown up of him …


  128. Pointman says:

    Amanda says:
    October 1, 2010 at 8:48 am

    They may be Finnish but they’re not too obscure. Their stuff is worth an explore.


  129. Dr. Bear says:

    Amanda says:
    October 1, 2010 at 6:54 am

    Off! Deep Woods Insect Repellent Number V works really well. For urban adventures in NYC and elsewhere, take a spray can of it, too, as ticks, fleas, lice and the bedbug are taking over. Pets are now allowed everywhere and no one bothers to spray their pets anymore, though I am sure you do. There were very good reasons for the old quarantines and bans against pets, and we have thrown it all away because we think now as a people that there are vaccines for everything, and there is not.

    Not my fear but my expectation is of a vector of typhus, of which Rocky Mountain spotted fever and rickettsia are but two varieties, hitting everywhere, and when it does it will take all before it, rich and poor, urban and suburban. We have made preparation for this, and in fact people’s hygiene related common sense has declined with time.

    Click to access 1519.pdf

    Click to access MurineTyphus.pdf

    That variety transmitted by head lice and fleas becomes most prevalent when the thermometer drops in urban areas, as the critters move toward heat sources like people. Bedbugs also have great potential a vectors, as Dr. Russell Wilder proved.

    Fumigate the house old-style, not with sprays which need constant re-spraying by design LOL, keep Puppy happy and bathed and de-bugged, and if you get super-itchy from flea/tick bites, see a doctor. The people at Combat! have a gel you put in corners of the house’s rooms away from people and pets which really works wonders.

    NYC is already a plague zone but they play it down as a nuisance only.

    Part of why this is the case is not only modern hygiene and immigration’s lack of an Ellis Island to de-louse everyone coming in (they should just grab folks at random anywhere now and de-louse them IMHO) but over-spraying has killed off all the tiny spiders and other insects which feed on these vector bloodsuckers in their early life stages.

  130. Dr. Bear says:

    I meant NO preparation had been made for this eventuality.

  131. Dr. Bear says:

    Amanda, Mum and Dad, on their honeymoon, went to Wawa, Ontario, still the blueberry capital of Canada. Hasn’t changed much since the 1940’s, last time I was there. Still a nice place to set up a tent or rent a cabin, canoe, etc., etc. The Group of Seven traveled through there and painted their brains out in the 1920’s, with magnificent results.

    I think there is a Canadian black fly calendar or early warning system with their Department of Environment you can access online LOL They attack everything, and do so in clouds. Most Canadians think the black fly should be the national bird.

  132. Dr. Bear says:

    I never asked them if they ran into any bears. I think they were otherwise occupied when up there LOL

  133. Dr. Bear says:

    Farley Mowat wrote lots about the Canadian wilderness of pith, humour and worth you might want to look into. I fink he’s still alive and working.

  134. Amanda says:

    As a teenager I really enjoyed his book, Never Cry Wolf. He said in the preface that translations had proved difficult, the Russian title coming out as Wolf, Please Don’t Cry.

  135. Amanda says:

    Thanks for that family background and history of the dreaded blood-gouger. You are very much ‘hahf and haaaf’, aren’t you? (Transatlantic, I mean.)

  136. Amanda says:

    Otherwise occupied: I would have been, too, but when my boyfriend and I pitched our tent, on the lake edge as night was falling, having just come within a canoe’s length of a mother moose and her calf, I was thoroughly miserable. Black fly bites all over my body, I had a cold, we’d been driving and paddling all day, and the ground felt like a rock under my back. Not the cushy bed I really needed. Boyfriend thought I was making a fuss about the bites until he got his flashlight out and had a look! You can see why glamour meant nothing and I was happy to wear my specially purchased bug hat!

  137. Amanda says:

    Walt, dear, I assure you that if anyone tried to grab *me* for de-lousing, I would scream blood-curdlingly and belt him one — or two — right in the middle of the gentlemen’s department.

    Spraying is behind the times. My dog has heartworm and every worm preventative, and tick and flea preventative (especially flea, the whole life cycle) in a liquid I squirt along her back every month. She has always been fragrant, hygienic, and healthy (apart from her allergies, poor darling). I even brush her teeth (poultry-flavoured toothpaste for dogs), and her breath is sweet. Amazing, ain’t it?

    A couple of months ago, stayed in a Residence Inn before moving into the rented house. That part of the Marriott chain accepts dogs. We pay $100 for any stay (of whatever duration) because at the end they come in and clean/disinfect. They need to do that because, apart from the pestilence you name, some people are allergic to animals and need their dander and hair completely out of there.

    The thought of bedbugs would be enough to keep my awake all night. Awful.

  138. Amanda says:

    me not my. Wakey, wakey brain!

  139. Amanda says:

    Pointman: I like the new song you linked to. You’re right: worth an explore.

  140. izen says:

    @-Pointman says: October 1, 2010 at 8:50 am
    “Icarus slimes in whingeing after yet another bloody good kicking administered by The Good Doctor. What’s he on about? Oh yes, he’s attacking the man rather than his arguments. Very grown up of him …”

    Even Courtney doesn’t claim the title of Doctor, good or otherwise, pointing this out, and why is an attack on him? For NOT claiming a nonexistent title erroneously ascribed by others ?!

    But perhaps if you haven’t figured out that I am not Icarus this is beyond you….

    If you read more carefully you would see I did engage with his argument – such as it is.
    The analogy he makes between constraints on carbon emissions and constraints on car use is poor, but as far as I can see it implies the opposite of the point he is trying to make.
    Because cars have the potential to kill people we DO constrain the use to minimise those risks.

    As I have stated before, I don’t think the political will or ability exists to make any significant constraints on carbon emissions, even if they DID cause as many deaths as cars. Even if the level of potential warming could be shown to kill 6 people a day.

    But even with cars a compromise is reached, there is a collective societal acceptable usage that minimises injury while maximising the benefits of an individually autonomous transport.

    Seatbelts, speed limits, motorbike helmets and vehicle quality checks are all imposed as constraints on the LIBERTARIAN use of cars, not just as a commie-fascist control plot, but also to reduce the harm that unregulated use can cause.

    Is this really an analogy that indicates that NO constraint should be put on CO2 emissions if they cause harm ???

  141. Amanda says:

    One problem is that any reasonable person can *see* that car accidents occur; that seat belts and airbags protect people, and so on. But the trouble with arguments about cosmic chemistry and stratospheric effects is that most people can’t grapple with them: it might as well be philosophy. *You*, the advocate, have to bring your arguments down to earth, like the greatest philosophers do. Plato spoke of shadows in a cave; Socrates spoke of lovers, farmers, and so on. That does not mean that Plato was interested especially in caves or that Socrates was obsessed with how to grow vegetables. The AGW alarmists have spent too much effort on fudging and improvising, and too little effort on finding out and then explaining their findings in honest, intelligible terms to the citizens of the free world. They also have come across, in terms of their funders and fellow travellers, as somehow hostile to the free world. Unless you address these facts, you’re not dealing with the nitty gritty.

  142. Amanda says:

    Pointman, I like that song, too — listening to it right now in fact — but a couple of others not so much (picking them off YouTube’s sidebar). You seem (to my ear at least) to be choosing their more engaging ones.

  143. Walt O'Bruin says:

    Amanda says:
    October 1, 2010 at 9:33 am

    You’re welcome. My parents before we kids were born had a truly wonderful and intriguing life. I am a few weeks away from finding out if my parents were blacklisted for other reasons than the usual American Legion shakedown for beer money. It gets weird as I am about to find out if in fact they WERE foreign operatives. Mum made parts for the Norden bombsight and your British design Mark XIV, which was a better bombsight altogether. Dad worked in quality control after the war at the same plant. Everyone thinks the blacklist was for movie stars only, but if my parents had crossed the border to Canada after they were put on the Red Challenges list they would never have been able to come back, even to reclaim us kids. The blacklist lasted until 1976. Gerald Ford cut the chains which bound my parents.

    I like Canada lots. If I drew the borderlines of the Republic of Waltovia, it would be a very strange-shaped country, indeed. “Border rat,” is what the terminology used to be. I would go mad without Canada to run to from time to time just to get away from the “Like me or I’ll kill you” coercion and unspoken jealousies of daily life here in the States.

    I think the community at large without pets are worse at carrying vectors than pets or people who own them, but there is still that dynamic afoot. Housecats are the biggest concern, to my mind. They rarely receive the care or attention dogs do.

    The magic trick in roughing it to stay bug-free is to cover on foot at least five miles so you work up a good sweat for the DEET-based repellent to bond to. Everyone seems to think if you are in the tropics you automatically get bit to death by bugs, but actually it’s the temperate climates what do fer ya. The reason being if it gets really cool at night, the creepy critters move to the heat, which is you. In tropical climates, they don’t want to bunk with something that is 98.6 degrees F, they want to cool down. They are coldblooded, after all. They also hate old-fashioned homemade lye soap. Take a bar, wade out into a turtle and froggy-filled pond and lather up. Best bath in the universe. Don’t do it below the Mason-Dixon line, though! Too many snakes, and a new small crustacean from Asia which swims and really bites hard.

    I don’t ever remember using a bug screen or mosquito netting the whole time I was overseas, but General Gorgas did a great job of cleaning up Panama for good, and maintenance of the major bug free status is still well-maintained. Out in the bush there is different, of course LOL Not by much, though. Northern forests I think are probably a lot more lethal if one doesn’t know one’s way around.

  144. Walt O'Bruin says:

    Izen, most automotive accidents if fatal are de facto suicide or homicide, as in over 80% of single and multiple vehicle accidents here in the States, booze or drugs, including prescription, are involved. I doubt it is any different in the EU. There is no comparison of CO2 and the automobile. You may as well compare apples and the fudge on Pluto.

    I like Quebec traffic cops and traffic law. You get wasted and then pulled over there by the police, you are lucky if you are not somewhat slightly bruised falling up a flight of stairs before you reach the station, and if you blow over the limit once or test positive for inebriating drugs once, you never, ever drive again in the Province. They assume you do not care if you kill someone if you get toasted then drive, is where their attitude originates. The police are right to think so, to my mind. Wish it were that way here in the States. 40-50,000 are killed a year on the roads.

  145. Walt O'Bruin says:

    There is different should be things are different. Digitarditis again. :>p Just shoot me and get it over with. BANG Thank you. Plunk.

  146. Amanda says:

    Walt: I only have time right now to say two things: 1) you are vastly entertaining, and an excellent writer with or without the digitarditis — no I will NOT go bang-bang, and there will be no PLUNK, thank you very much — that would be far too boring!; and 2) thank you for your service in Viet Nam and who knows where else. Even if your parents were risque in more ways than one.

  147. Walt O'Bruin says:

    Amanda says:
    October 1, 2010 at 11:49 am

    Many thanks, and you are very welcome.

  148. Amanda says:

    Walt my friend, your esteemed Quebecois cops are wrong: some people are just stupidly unthinking. Mr A. got rather stern — gentlemanly, but decidedly stern — with his parents on this very question of driving under the influence. Do you realize, he told them, that if there is an accident and you register something other than
    ‘Amazing Grace’ on the breathalyzer bag, you could go to jail for the rest of your life? Mom (he’s American, so it’s ‘mom’, though fortunately he says it like ‘mum’, I don’t like mawwwwm, myself): he said: Mom, how would you like to live alone the rest of your life while dad’s in jail?

    It’s stupidity. Pa doesn’t want to kill anyone. He has a beer or two and thinks he’s fine even though he’s in his seventies and needs glasses and is a bit fatuous… you see my point. I don’t think someone should die because my father-in-law is a very nice occasional ass. But I also don’t think they should string him up by his toes or give him a cosy cell with a hardened criminal bunk-mate, either. Intent does matter, doesn’t it?

    But of course, someone killed by a fatuous twit is just as dead as someone killed by a bloody-minded brute. But that just goes to show that no justice can satisfy our every need: justice isn’t perfect because there are some things that justice can’t satisfy.

    Pointman: Thanks for introducing me to POTF. I like new and interesting if it’s gripping.

  149. Locusts says:

    I have been in charge of a vehicle many times whilst drunk, yet I feel no guilt. It’s much harder to kill someone other than yourself on a bicycle than behind the wheel of a ton of metal.

  150. izen says:

    Walt O’Bruin says: October 1, 2010 at 11:23 am
    “Izen, most automotive accidents if fatal are de facto suicide or homicide, as in over 80% of single and multiple vehicle accidents here in the States, booze or drugs, including prescription, are involved. I doubt it is any different in the EU. There is no comparison of CO2 and the automobile. You may as well compare apples and the fudge on Pluto”

    I agree it is a poor analogy.
    I didn’t make it.

  151. Locusts says:

    I agree it is a poor analogy.

    Not really. It is similar to the argument that if we went in to Iraq to instill democracy, why didn’t we go in to Congo where the need was, and still is, more pressing.

    There is a hypothesis that CO2 may kill many many people over the next few years with rising sea levels and what not.

    There is a fact that car accidents kill many many people at the moment.

    In an order of priorities, surely actual causes of death should rank higher than probable ones?

    But the UK is a place where people waiting at a bus stop on a busy trunk road during rush hour will turn round and glare at the smoker lighting up beside them, and are blind to the other fumes rising up around their feet.

  152. Pointman says:

    The Udalls’ winked-at little secret in Washington.

    “But in the real world of private conduct? Well, “If it looks like a duck, waddles like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck.” And scandalous, at least by the rules that most of the news media applies to conservatives.”

    I wouldn’t mind as much if politicians at least tried a bit harder to hide their financial interests in what they’re voting on.


  153. Ozboy says:

    G’day everyone,

    New post here



  154. Pointman says:

    It’s end of quarter, so financial chores time. Cashed the BP shares I bought in June and money safe again. Come home to Daddy, my beauties. We’ll wait together for the next scary story …

    Speaking of scary stories, carbon is still trading at 10c per tonne. Poor old BBC pension fund. Ah, the heady days when it was ‘worth’ $7.00 per tonne are long gone now. As my dear departed Granny used to say, “A fool and their money are soon parted”.

    You can get the price here
    but I don’t think the site, like the exchange (which is being downsized), will be around for too long.

    Oz! A round of drinks for the regulars, courtesy of Pointman.


  155. Amerloque says:

    Hello Amanda !

    Dunno whether I’ve posted this before. If I have, apologies in advance !

    I killed two rattlesnakes in my time, when I was a Scout, but I guess things have changed … (grin)


    (from a USA Today comment:

    Some precautions to follow when in bear country:

    1. Carry pepper spray to defend yourself.
    2. Wear little bells attached to your backpack, so they hear you coming and are not startled.
    3. Know how to identify bear droppings to know that the bears are around:
    3a. Black bear droppings usually contain berry seeds and squirrel fur.
    3b. Grizzly droppings smell like pepper spray and contain little bells.

  156. Walt O'Brien says:

    Amerloque says:
    October 1, 2010 at 6:44 pm

    I love it, even as a bear LOL!

  157. Amanda says:

    Amerloque: I did see the berry seeds in the black splat on the road. Seemed diagnostic. Didn’t have any bus fare in it, though :^)

Comments are closed.